October 3, 2018 • 48 mins
As fellow travelers on the acoustic and bluegrass music festival circuit, I'm With Her's Sara Watkins, Sarah Jarosz, and Aoife O'Donovan, were bound to make music together. Following an informal jam session, the trio got together and began to write songs, eventually releasing their debut album 'See You Around' in 2018. The band joined Scott Goldman to discuss their collaborative musicianship, the welcoming nature of the musical community they grew up in, and how that community helped them develop their own artistry in the process.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to Required Listening. I'm your host Scott Goldman, Executive
director of the Grammy Museum. Each week in the Clive
Davis Theater, I have the opportunity to speak with artists
from across the musical spectrum about their careers, their influences,
their struggles, and their creative process. Now, I'm a truly
lucky guy, as are the two hundred guests that get
to attend our public programs at the Grammy Museum. Now
(00:27):
with Required Listening, I'm thrilled to share these interviews with
you on today's episode, My Conversation with the Band I'm
with Her. The band is comprised of three accomplished musicians,
Sarah Watkins, Sarah Jerose, and Ifa O'Donovan. Each has made
their mark as solo artists and as members of other bands.
(00:50):
Sarah jer Rose is a two time Grammy Award winning
multi instrumentalist and singer. Ifa O'Donovan is the founder of
the string band Crooked Still and has collaborated with artists
from Yo Yo Ma to Chris Thealy to the Boston Pops.
Sarah Watkins is a founder of the band Nickel Creek
and has maintained an active solo career, releasing three of
her own albums as fellow travelers on the acoustic and
(01:13):
bluegrass music festival circuit, They've been around each other since
they were young. In some ways, I'm with Her was
bound to happen. They came together at an informal jam
session during the two thousand fourteen Tell Your Ride Bluegrass Festival.
Struck by the seamless and exciting sound of the music
they made, they resolved to get together and work on
(01:33):
writing songs. Two intense songwriting sessions led to recording at
Peter Gabriel's Real World Studios in England with producer Eaton John's.
The resulting album, See You Around, was completed in January
two thousand sixteen, but because of each member's individual commitments,
the album didn't come out until early two thousand eighteen.
(01:54):
But it was well worth the weight. We discussed their
unique intention to subvert the individual in favor of the group.
In fact, I still have trouble consistently identifying who's singing lead,
and I will tell you they love that. I think
you'll get a sense of how committed they are to
being a band. Their collaborative musicianship is flawless, as are
(02:14):
the blend of their voices. We talked about the welcoming
and collaborative nature of the musical community that they grew
up in and how that community helped them develop their
own artistry in the process. We got together on a
recent afternoon in the Clive Davis Theater exclusively for required listening.
So let's listen to my conversation with I'm with her.
(02:38):
Thank you all for being here, really appreciate Um. So,
first of all, I know you've you've completed an East
coast leg of this tour behind the album. So how's
it going. It's going so well. We're we're having at
last it was kind of east coast Midwest. Um, we
(03:00):
all the way down to Tennessee. Did you hit any
of those like ten thousand northeasters that went through the
northeast all that snow thankfully whatever, which was which was
a blessing, But no, it's it's been a blast. And
um we had a couple of weeks off an hour
here on the West coast. Um, and just it's so
fun to like finally play these songs for people. Yeah, Um,
(03:21):
and I want to talk about that because you know,
there there's an this is an interesting construction um this
band because you all have you know, kind of built
out solo careers and you recorded this record two years ago.
But before before we get there, I want to talk
about kind of how you met because there's um it's
(03:43):
almost as if this was bound to happen in some way,
and there's this whole community, you know, whether it's the
Old Settlers Festival or Rocky Grass or tell your Ride
where you guys were kind of in each other's orbit
for a period of time. What is it about, respectively,
(04:04):
the music that you make individually that attracted you to
each other? Can you can you speak to that a
little bit? Yeah? I think it's uh, Well, we all
are lucky to be a part of the sort of
large and rich musical community of multigenerational really kind of
growing up listening to music that we love and then
(04:26):
getting to eventually make music with the people we grew
up listening to. I think that's sort of been a
common theme for all of us. I met Sarah in
two thousand and one at the Philadelphia Folk Festival. Sarah Watkins, Um,
I had you know Nicol Creek had put out I
think only one record at that that point. Uh, And
it was before this side came out, and I remember
watching her saying and just being being pretty star struck. Honestly,
(04:47):
you guys were headlining on the Friday night at the
main stage, and I was playing with a band called
The Wayfaring Strangers. It was really my first, the first
gig I ever did at a folk festival, and we met,
We met that weekend, crazy to me, and uh, and
I think we have that. You mentioned Old Settlers. That's
where Watkins and Duro's met um that that same year,
I think in two thousand and one, and Duros and
(05:08):
I met then five years later at the Rocky Grass Festival.
And it's just I think just speaks to the fact
that our scene is so so open, and you know,
oftentimes people will be backstage who may not necessarily be
headlining the festival, or maybe in a in a newer band,
or may just be a guest of somebody else backstage,
and there are jams, there are people making music with
each other, and that's it's still like that, and it
just feels really lucky that I don't know that we
(05:29):
all met in such an informal context. And then fast
forward you know, fifteen years and we're here at the
Grammy Museum. In hindsight, it does feel like it was
just bound to happen at some point because it has
become quite a natural fit. We all just you know,
we live well together, and we travel all together, and
we love to you know, write and work together. And um,
(05:52):
I think it's part of sharing that uh similar scenes
in background is you know, we have a similar way
of communicating and and and pretty uh like like our standards,
what we what we want a song to be like.
One of the one my favorite things about writing in
(06:12):
this band is that is that everyone really wants to
make sure that you know, we we skip over some
of the maybe the first or second choices that might
seem obvious or satisfying in some way, but not necessarily
how we all kind of want to get a song out.
It's hard to describe, but um, it all makes fair
(06:34):
good working relationships. Yeah, um, and I want to go
into the songwriting a little bit, but but I want
to step back just just for a minute, maybe for
for those listening who aren't necessarily familiar with that collaborative
culture um in in the music scene that each of
you grew up in UM. You know, particularly at festivals,
(06:55):
there are things that go on amongst those playing at
the festivals in terms of after hours jams and and
people be invited being invited to play with other other artists.
Talk about that a little bit in terms of your
growth as a musician. Yeah, I mean it's funny because
we were talking about how, yes, there's so many things
(07:16):
that it makes it seem like this band was destined
to be a band for a long time. But at
the same time, you could look at it in the
other way, where like I was nine years old when
I met Sarah Watkins, and if you have told me
then that we were going to be in a band
together someday, I would have told you that you were crazy,
you know. So, so like it's it's cool to like
think think that far back, and the context of that
is exactly what you're saying. It was just a workshop
(07:39):
at the Old Siler's Music Festival outside of Austin, Texas, UM,
which is where I'm from. Just you know, there's there's
kind of these extracurricular things that happened at festivals where,
in addition to be being able to watch a band
do a main stage set, you also might get to
see them do a workshop earlier on in the day,
which was what happened that day. I think you guys
just kind of it wasn't even necessarily a workshop. It
(08:01):
was like a smaller performance on a smaller stage before
your main stage show that night. And so because of that,
it was an attempt I was able to like go
up to them afterwards and and say hello and try
to get a signature, which is so cool. Like just
the access to um musicians, UM, especially as a younger musician.
(08:23):
It's just something that you see happen a lot, and
it's encouraged and UM. It allows for the music and
the tradition to kind of be passed along and shared
and and and that is an important part of that,
is passing along the tradition. There's a repertoire. You know,
they're the large though it may be, but there there
is a repertoire that is shared. Is that Is that
(08:45):
a place where you guys met musically in that in
that sort of shared repertoire. Yeah, we were well when
we I tell you right, and we were going to
share the stage and do a workshop together with a
couple of the great musicians Um, the three of us
were able to get together and just work up harmonies
on a few songs, and we found a song or
two that work that was common that we would you know,
(09:06):
could easily find a three part harmony stack on and
and and so they're there. That does ease the the
speed of sort of collaboration and communication. But I want
to just say though, that like the festivals and and
that kind of overlaps with camps to me, because I
got to go to fiddle camp, Michael Connor's fiddle camp
(09:28):
when I was I think thirteen and fourteen. It was
his first two camps in Nashville, and um, and I
met so many people who I still know who there
who are people who are really really good friends. And
I met them there at that camp, and I would
see them at festivals. So you see them. You could
spend this week. I got to spend this week with
(09:49):
these terrific teachers and players of all ages and all
ability ranges and styles. And then the next summer we'd
go to you know, a handful of festivals and I'd
see kids that I knew from this fiddle camp, and
we could play tunes that we had learned at camp.
Or we could like find each other in the campground
(10:09):
for those after hours jams that you were talking about,
and so it it just feels like it's very fluid
and natural, the progression from hanging out with your friends
too jamming in a parking lot to like being in
a band and getting to play the kids stage and
then all of a sudden someone gives you a leg
up and it's like, hey, why don't you play for
fifteen minutes on the main stage, And like that happened
(10:30):
to me too. I feel like that's a a really
beautiful story that that um that a lot of people
can tell, and I'm so glad that it's you know,
pretty common and and it really you know, if you
look at the you know, kind of the modern music business,
the modern music business is not necessarily set up to
(10:52):
encourage career development in many respects that you know, I
think you're totally right. But because it's bluegress, there's not
a much of business involved. Like it's not something people
are going in to be lucrative. Yeah, it's it is
a hobbyists life, but there is that that interest and
that willingness and that energy to to bring people along,
(11:18):
you know, people who want to participate, to give them
the chance to go to camp, to give them a
chance to play on a kid's stage, to give them
a chance to play on the main stage there. It's it's,
it's it's a very nice system. For lack of a
better term. I think if you go back and look
at the broader genre that that this is, it is
folk music, and folk music is music of the people.
(11:39):
And I think it's always been like that that it's
it's always been encouraging of the younger generation. And and
as Sarah said, a hobbyists genre. I mean that's not
that's not off base. I mean a lot of people
get into playing folk music as for fun on the side.
Especially when I started playing bluegrass and all time music.
It was in Boston at the cantab Lounge, this legendary
(11:59):
dive bar and a bridge um and I remember most
of the guys who were up there on Tuesday nights.
This is before over the art that came out, so
really before you know, a ton of people were playing
blue grass sort of on the bigger stages that that
everybody knew about. And all the guys up on stage
at the can Tap were you know, they worked at
m I T and they worked at Harvard or they
were electricians or whatever, and they were playing blue grass.
(12:20):
They were they were badasses and they were just jamming
every Tuesday night, and that was I don't know. I
think that there's there's something to be said for that
as well. You look out the audience at a festival
such as Rocky Grass, for instance, I bet you of
the audience have guitars and sing songs with their friends.
They're relating to the bands on stage as um, people
(12:41):
who speak the same language. And I think that you know,
when it's that commonality and that appreciation, the way that like,
you know, someone who uh you know, might might build
a little a little something in their garage, know, tinkering
with something they might appreciate, you know, the workmanship of
(13:04):
all different levels um in a unique way, an insider's way.
And I think that that's something that you see a
lot at folk festivals. When when you guys got together
at Tell You Ride, I think this was two thousand
fourteen and you got invited I think it was Chris
Maybe invited you guys to to do some songs, and
you were saying that that you got together and found
some songs that you could put together a harmony stack on.
(13:28):
It's you know, it just sounds so simple. Was it
that simple? Kind of I mean not to not to
sort of under I don't know, I make it seem
less cool than it was. But but what was really magical,
I think was not the putting together the harmony stack,
but was how naturally it felt to sing the songs
(13:49):
and naturally the blend felt to us. I think that
that that was sort of the wow moment, not not like, oh,
let's all try to you know, find a part here,
because that's that's something that we're all used to doing.
It was it was sort of the magic of the
sound of the three voices together to me. And it's
and it seems like you know, but just just based
on video that you know that I've watched, Um, did
you immediately gravitate to that one microphone and you're all
(14:11):
singing around it? Was that? Was that something you went to?
We don't do that all the time. Yeah, I think
that's something that is a, um, a great way to
get this music across. It's it's a good way to
do that, and UM, a lot of times it's it's
easier for us to make sure that we're blending and
mixing the way that we want to if we just
(14:32):
do it ourselves on stage, um around one microphone. UM.
So there's a there's a simplicity to it kind of
and also it's it's really great to play with each
other that well, like facing each other that close together.
I find, like I think everyone's very common scenario that
(14:52):
you're like you're running songs backstage and dressing room and
you're facing each other and you're really close together. It
sounds great, and then you get on stage and it's
like not, it's kind of wobbly, and you just don't
don't have the pocket that you had because you're you know,
spread out in a straight line. You can't quite here
as well as you did. And there's a great pleasure
to me of just singing around that one mike and
(15:13):
getting to to really um focus on the sound and
just kind of uh, it's I am able to get
into a different kind of focus zone that way. Well.
And it strikes me from watching and this is just
you know, sort of an observation that you're playing as
much for each other as you are for people in
(15:35):
the audience. Is that how it feels to you guys. Yeah,
I I would say so, and I think I think
it was important. Um, you know, we we were really
playing around the one mic mostly for the first couple
of years that as this band, and I feel like it,
as Sarah was saying, it's like sonically unifying, UM to
kind of as a young band, be able to be
(15:58):
that close and figure out what our blend is, what
our vibe is, how the different tampers of our voice
voices go together, instead of like just right away going
to a multi mike set up, I think and now
I I personally feel more comfortable on a multi mike
setup having had the time put in with the one mic. UM.
And I still think we all it's nice to go
(16:19):
back to the one mike too, because it just it's
so it's so special and intimate and and close that way.
But I think it's important to our sounds. Certainly, if
you guys ever come back and do a performance here,
that would be We've only had one artist do that here. Yeah,
and it sounded. Um, it's very surprising, that's the only
(16:40):
when Yeah, who is it, Tiff Merritt? Oh great? Yeah, nice? Yeah,
I want to talk about you know, kind of shared
influences just for a minute, and we talked about festivals
and and that kind of stuff. But but I've read
some things that that you guys have discussed amongst yourself
UM albums that you have shared a love for over time,
(17:07):
and I'm wondering if there's a couple maybe that you
could tell me that stand out for you that you
guys have all said, Oh wait a minute, I love
that record. UM. Well, I feel like the one thing
we've talked about is like the Tim and Moally O'Brien UM,
just in terms of like great harmony singing. UM. I
feel like we yeah, a way out on the Mountain UM,
(17:27):
just such great UM song selections and and harmony singing.
And that's just a record I think that we all
have put time in and UM and really loved. And
then there's obviously the Vampire Weekend Okay, yeah, the Modern
Vampires of the City we we UM. What's fun is
(17:48):
that that when we went on our first three week
tour in Europe, UM, I had actually never heard that
record before, and they Ifa and Sarah had had put
in time with it and and so it was fun.
But I don't I feel like you guys hadn't heard
it in a while, and so it was like it
was new then when it came out, Okay, but you
had already put in some time months before that, yeah, so,
(18:10):
but it was it was so we like blasted in
the car over the course of those three weeks, and
it was just so fun because it was just the
three of us. It's uh, I feel like it's rare
these days to revisit the same album in the course
of a tour. Very often, like a lot of times
when you're driving Mountain down the road, everyone's you know,
sharing their their favorites, are just taking turns, deejaying and
(18:30):
and a lot of times the temptation is to just
like you know, put in a different you know, make
a playlist of different songs and different artists each time.
But it's really great to put in albums and I
feel like, I mean, that's a unique experience in last
like ten years for me to put in the same
album probably ten times in one in one road trip,
(18:53):
you know, and and it was it was really good.
Is there is there something on the playlist right now,
some album that's being played repeatedly, Well, this like this
leg is just starting so the Sound of Music. Actually
have really been listening a lot to the Sound of
Music soundtrack and it's really good. I just want to
say for the record, sometimes you just have to go
(19:14):
dig way back deep into your subliminal early influences and
figure out what it is that makes you tick. And
I think it's Christopher Plumber for me. He does such
a good job on that. There's one there's one artist
that I have to ask you about because he's an
all time favorite of mine, going back, and I'm old,
going way back, and that's John Hartford. It's just about
(19:36):
to say Scene power Plant is another favorite of ours.
Um and and I was lucky enough when I was
a teenager I went to see him at a weird
festival in Massachusetts and somehow got backstage and got to
talk to him for a period of time and ask
what festival, Um, you know what. I don't even remember
the name. I remember it was in the town of Fitchburg, Massachusetts,
(19:58):
which is in central Massachuset. It was in a high
school football stadium and it was Hartford. And I don't
even remember who else was on the bill because I
was just focused on him and they were playing off
the back of a flat peg truck. That's that's really,
That's really all I remember. And there was very you
know back in those days. This I was going to say,
(20:19):
early seventies that a lot like I can tell you
right on real fast, both started on flat trucks. Yeah,
And and I just walked back there and he was
leaning against a car or whatever. And this was after
Aeroplane had come out and before he had released that
Warner Brothers, the last Warner Brothers record he did, and
he was going on and on with me about how
(20:41):
there there was four sides of material that he recorded
and Warner Brothers would only release one record, and he
was off about that. But the genius nonetheless, So what
is it about John Hartford that you guys do? For me?
I got to spend a little bit of time with
him as well, and um, for me, he was a
(21:05):
gateway out of a lot of the things that I
was really listening for when I was a kid. It
was which was, you know, you're a kid, you're listening
to like speed and precision. I think that's you know,
pretty typical for like high school age kids. And then
something like Hartford broke all the rules and I didn't
know why I loved him so much, and I couldn't
I couldn't put my put my finger on it because
(21:28):
he defied my my typical checklist. But I feel like
there's so much of his personality came out in his
songwriting and in his performances in a way that you
don't see a lot, you know, like you I feel
like other people who do that are or were, um
maybe like Harry Nilson and Roger Miller, those kinds of
(21:50):
characters who let that silliness come out in the songs. Um,
Johnny Fritz says, a guy who's opening for us, And
I think he also lets his personality come out in
his songs, and I say their way, but um, it's uh.
And he was also really kind to me and and um,
but I think the personality, like like see, seeing feeling,
(22:15):
getting an impression of who he is through his music
was something that I hadn't experienced in that way, And
that was the first thing I think that drew me in,
and then from there it just goes so deep that
you know, you could I mean, he really he had
a vision, I think, of where where he believed his
music should go, and he was going to follow that regardless,
(22:37):
which I always which I thought, there's a confidence in
that of just writing, you know, being himself truly through
and through and in all the wacky weird things. I mean.
The legend is that he wrote the UM the Washing
Machine song the same day as he wrote Gentle in
My Mind UM, and I just I love that. Yeah,
(22:59):
it feels it feels like his his music is like
an extension of himself more than like a performance. UM.
Also one one fun fact is that I the first
time I met Sarah was also the first time that
I saw John Hartford live at the Adult Sellers and
that was his you guys played, Nicol Creek played with him,
and that would end up being his last, his last
(23:20):
performance public performance, UM, which I just feel so thankful
to have seen that, and it just felt like a
very That's also the first day I met Tim O'Brien
and Daryl Scott, Like it just felt like a fortuitous day.
So there's there's a track on the record waits Field.
I think that's your You've said, is your homage to Hartford? No,
(23:40):
I mean I don't think it. I don't think it is.
I think I might have said I'm not sure in homage,
but like I definitely think of him a little bit
and in the silliness of that tune, but it wasn't
it wasn't written as like a tribute to him. Um.
I just feel like there's a little bit of what
you guys do sort of put out at the end
(24:01):
of that. Yeah, the performance, I think when we recorded
that song, I remember just everybody kind of holding their breath,
just trying to get to the end of that nothing
it up and when we did, that's why there's this
this sort of everybody's holding their breath and then we
laugh and it's just I think we left it on
the on the record because it just, yeah, that is
really what happened, and it actually adds to the musical
(24:22):
experience of listening to that track. I think it's us.
I mean there's an energy, you know, you sort of
pick up the energy at the end, you know, you
kind of realize what you guys were. You know, we're
going through as you were. And that song has been
so fun to play live every night. That's sort of
a moment that that I look forward to in the
set every night, just just as it really does feel
like a release. Yeah, that's great when we when we
(24:42):
made it, we were I think a little bit slap
happy at the time. And I feel like it was
pretty late in the process of making the record. And
I also think it was late at night or after dinner,
or maybe just before dinner or something. And I think
by that point we were we were I was just
trying to remember the arrangement. I don't know why, but
(25:03):
there is something about it that just like I could
not I just kept like getting like distracted or lost
or something. And so I was particularly delighted to just
make it through that song. And I think what you
hear on the album is the first time we actually
did finish it. It's like the third third, third attempt,
first succeed success. I want to talk about songwriting for
for a minute, um Um, and I'm wondering, you know,
(25:25):
particularly for for for this record. Were these songs that
each of you individually were kind of bringing to the
group or was it a shared songwriting experience? How how
did the songwriting work? Well, Um, it kind of happened
in two chunks um of writing sessions. One here in
(25:47):
l a h in the summer July, and then another
eight day um writing session in Vermont. Um at a
farmhouse in rural Vermont in December UM And something that
we've kind of talked about that I think was so
important to the writing process was the fact that we
were living together for both of those stints. We were
(26:10):
in the same well, I guess when we were in
Los Angeles, we were EFA and I were in an airbnb.
Sarah lives here, but we were basically all at the
airbnb the entire time, and you know, making lunch together
and kind of living our days together, which I think
was so important to uh the stories of these songs
feeling shared, even if you know, there definitely were moments
(26:31):
when you know, someone would bring in a verse in
a chorus or a start of an idea to a song.
But because we're living together for for these two writing stints,
just the nature of talking through the stories and kind
of having to explain yourself a little bit. I think
that was something that was so enlightening about this writing
process for me is that I feel like I've written
(26:52):
by myself so much that you know, when when you
write a song by yourself, an idea that makes sense
to you or a line that makes total sense to
you might not actually make sense to someone else and
just by having these um conversations of oh, but what
is that line? What are you trying to say? And
then that turns into a conversation, and then the conversation
(27:13):
turns back into the song. I think that that whole
process of being together for several days in a row
um allowed these stories to feel like for all of
us to have ownership over them and feel like a
shared thing. Did you guys both you know, sort of
all jump in on that sort of feedback loop? Was that? Yeah, yeah,
(27:35):
that definitely. What do you mean, like, well, just in
terms of bringing ideas and then and then you know,
kind of not not challenging, but but refining. Yes, but
that in an addition to that process of everybody bringing
ideas and refining, there were also a couple of instances
where we really did just start songs from scratch in
the same room as each other. Where I mean, of course, yes,
(27:55):
an idea I can't spontaneously spring out of three people's
brains at once. Somebody would start with a groove and
then we would sort of you know, I remember writing
Game to Lose was one that that came up, came
out like that. I think the verses for that song.
I remember sitting in the room in Vermont and just
sort of I don't even remember who started playing a
groove and then we were just kind of like no, no no, no,
like and then we kind of went went from there
(28:16):
and it really just naturally, like just the ideas kept
on snowballing and then they were refined after that. So
for processes such as that one or also and yeah, um,
where the the idea would get started with the three
of us and then kind of back up and you
kind of go back to the place of like, Okay,
even though we all brought this idea, we can still
all challenge it, you know what I mean remember it? Um,
(28:40):
Do you still look at an album as a body
of work? Definitely? Because you know that's that too, has
been challenged in the modern Yeah. You know, I've been
thinking about it though, and like I think we do
all think of an albums as its own thing. Um.
(29:02):
But you know, like it's not the first time that
people have been listening to one song at a time, right,
Like that's kind of how things started. One people put
out an Aside and a beast, you know, and it
was singles was how it started. Um, why there's a
record of the year and it's a song. UM. So
(29:24):
it kind of just going back to how it started,
where people were listening to one song at a time
from a band. UM. But I think that you will
always find that a good amount of of of recording
artists will want to see that full picture as as
(29:46):
a standalone piece or as as as like a a
thought you know, for you for you? Is there is
there a thematic thread? Is there something that ties the
songs together? Travel has been a theme that people have
sort of latched onto when when we've talked to people
about the record. I don't think we went into it
(30:07):
saying let's write it and an album um with this
theme in mind. But but listening back, I do get
a sense of the the narrator or whoever the protagonist,
or whoever is singing these songs is a traveler, and
we are all travelers. I feel like there's a one
of the things that comes out of living in this
(30:28):
like shared space for those two writing stints is that
the songs did come from a time and place, and
so I think that there common threads are you know,
what we were all bringing to the table, as you know,
our concerns or our stories or what we've been thinking through.
(30:48):
UM that for those like that week that we were together,
that's what is on the album. So it makes sense
that there is a common thread, though I don't know
what it would be. I feel like it's just what
life was that week you Um, you went away to
(31:14):
record this record, UM far away in fact, you know,
to the UK. Um. Um was that isolation helpful? I mean,
you you're you're you know, a long way from home,
long way you know, potentially from from friends and family,
though you may have friends over there. UM it did.
(31:35):
Did that help in getting this done? I think so? Yeah,
I think it was. It was pretty necessary because of
all of our crazy schedules. I mean the fact that
we were able to squeeze in making the record in
three weeks at a crazy time. We were all about
to release our own solo records. Um Efa released her
(31:56):
record UM in the Magic Hour, the day that we
flew away from the studio. UM. Yeah, I was still
mixing my record Undercurrent, which one two Grammys, and Watkins
was like in the process of release. Ours came out
a month apart from each other. So it was wild.
And I think because all of that was sort of
(32:19):
you know, building, we were kind of getting in the
headspace of going on tour and doing these record release things.
I think it was really important to just get away
from any of our individual domains and just be removed
and be really focused for an intense focus for three weeks.
I mean we really did. We ate every meal together
(32:43):
with Ethan. It was really entire here. You got tired
of the soup. Yeah, you would really think that we
would have gotten tired of each other, But miraculously we
would end up in this this little common room that
had like three couches, and we would all sit on
like one half of one couch literally during our free time.
And I think people other people who were there like
(33:04):
must have thought we were actually insane because we would
be together all the the and then like after rids,
Sarah Watkins would make a fire in the fireplace because
that's just how boss she is, and we would sit
on half of the couch and just like be silly.
It's just it's quite incredible. You guys work with Ethan
John's Yeah, why him? What what? What? What? Why choose
(33:26):
him as the producer we're talking you're talking about um
common music that that that and I think on that
I feel like it's his name came up when we
were first on that tour in the UK, that three
week tour that we were driving around, maybe were driving
around somewhere else, but we were talking about like, if
we made an album, who would we make it with?
(33:46):
Who would we you know? And his name came up
as someone who um whose work we'd all you know,
really enjoyed, and I'd worked with him years before, and
so we eventually really you know, we we kept talking
about it and thinking about it and finally reached out
and and he was interested with Jose And if I
(34:09):
didn't actually meet him until we got to the studio,
we face timed him from Vermont three weeks before we
started the record, but like that was that was it.
So it was I think that added did the intensity
of it, because you know, you're flying all the way
to to London and then driving to Box which is
outside of bath While and and you're they're living and
(34:32):
eating and recording there for three weeks and it's just
kind of an intense commitment when you haven't met someone.
And so we you know, we arrived and uh and
then you know, saw the most intimate recording set up.
I think, you know, we we worked in before and
UM and just kind of started started it off. And
(34:52):
I feel like because of the intensely intimate way that
we recorded with no headphones, no separation and at all,
we were um as close as we are when we
stand together backstage rehearsing. UM and he and the Ethan
and the engineer Dominic Monks, we're right like ten feet
(35:17):
away in the same room, no no separation at all,
So they were just listening to us perform in front
of the mix without without the monitors or anything on.
Maybe I think the engineer had headphones, but like, UM,
it was it was just everyone was just very focused
on the performance and listening to each other and the moment.
(35:40):
And Ethan has a reputation for being like a first
take producer, and we definitely experienced that and definitely pushed
for sometimes like a second and third performance because these
songs we've written three weeks before, we didn't have any
experience performing them. So I think, um, we fought for
that a little bit early on and then and then
(36:02):
hit our stride and I feel like it's they got
great sounds. Yeah, I mean the record sounds terrific, But
you know that that producer artist relationship is oftentimes key two.
The sound of a record to you know, maybe the
way the songs are constructed, what, you know, whatever it
might be. Um, you know, the producer can shape songs
(36:24):
or sonics, sometimes be the psychologist and sort of hold
the mirror up and totally band therapy. Yeah, you know this,
this is what you're doing. How did he work with you?
What was what was so good about working with him? Well,
I mean, I think it kind of was the pushing
us to kind of expose the rawness of what we have.
(36:47):
And I think, I mean maybe the main reason that
I was so interested in wanting to work with him
was his ability to capture dynamics on a recording, which
I just feel is something that I don't hear much
anymore on records. It's like a wall of sound and
and many records to me these days just sound very horizontal. Um.
And that's something that I've loved about when you when
(37:10):
you say dynamics, you mean like you know, loud, solid,
getting like really soft and then exploding you know. Um,
I just think and you know, and a lot of
that has to do with dominic monks as well. But
but I think it's a combination of kind of, like
you said, the psychology of its kind of forcing it
to be this very intimate, intense thing where there's no isolation,
(37:33):
as Sarah was saying, And you know that that was
his his doing, you know, I think had we not
walked into the room and it was set up like that, like,
who knows what it would have been like. So I
think that that was that's kind of his strength, is
creating that that environment where everything is just really bare
and honest, because because I did read something that when
(37:54):
you first walked into the studio there was a fair
amount of trepidation about the way it was set up. Yeah,
I think I had never been in a recording studio
without the luxury of my own zone, you know, my
own headphone mix and my own you know, just space too,
Like it's okay if I mess up once, because I
can always just go ahead and fix that if it's
(38:16):
an otherwise perfect take. And um, I think because we
had written the music so close to the recording session,
we had come out of the Vermont writing session and
come December twelveth orte Or, it was very very close
to when we went to the UK January two. So, um,
it's not like we've been playing these songs for a
year and we knew them very well, so it was
(38:36):
a little bit scary. But that being said, what we
got out of that recording session, I think is an
album that that I mean, we're talking earlier about John
Hartford as an extension of himself and the music that
he makes. And I feel like we were almost not
forced into doing that, but it definitely helped us and
encouraged us to be more ourselves. And I think that
when you listen to the album, that's that's what I think,
(38:56):
what you hear is the three of us and and
our band I'm with her and not just sort of
like another thing with all all the bells and whistles.
And you know, one of the things that that um
struck me UM, particularly listening, you know, listening to the
songs and then and then subsequently reading a little bit. UM.
I was never and I don't think to this day,
(39:17):
I'm exactly sure who's singing what and and and And
I think that that's quite intentional on on your point
that that you um, and don't take this the wrong
way that that you subverted the individual for the group.
Am I right in that? I think so? Yeah, And
(39:37):
I would take that as a compliment on a step.
That's that's that's We're a band. We're not doing this
project calling it, you know, Sarah Watkin, Sarah Jero's EPO
done even. I mean, we're we're a band. We think
of ourselves as a band. We don't I'm not waiting
for my turn to get up and sing my song
or going to pat myself on the back for you know,
anything that I'm doing on stage. I feel like we're
all thinking of it as a trio, our project because
(39:59):
as you know, as I listen to the songs, it's
I do not feel that I'm listening to who's ever
singing lead, that I'm listening to that person's story. That's
not kind of where it it resonates for me. Um,
and it was right on with our experience too. Yeah.
I mean, seriously, I couldn't you know, could be me?
(40:22):
I don't know, um Um. The you know. The the
other thing and we touched on this when we started
is these songs were recorded in two thousand and sixteen,
and then you guys go off and have you know,
you all released records and you're doing other things, and
here you are now it's it's two thou eighteen and
now you're touring and I'm wondering, as you got back together,
(40:45):
have the songs changed? Have they evolved in some way? Um?
I don't not much. I mean I think that they
might begin to as we as we kind of go
further into this year of actually being on the road, um,
playing them. But I really feel like in order for
because we knew the reality of our schedules, we knew
(41:06):
that in order to make this work as a band,
because we were all committed, we did have to kind
of put it to the side for a hot second,
which one up being two years. UM. And you know,
I think because we realized, you know, when we when
we flew away from England, were we kind of all
agreed to say, Okay, we're gonna kind of just going
to pretend that that doesn't exist, I think for the
(41:28):
sake of freshness, for the sake of it being realizing
that you know what the schedule is going to be like.
So I think we all did a really good job
of doing that. Um. And it's been fun this year
kind of I guess We started in January with a
couple of shows, but you know, the last tour that
we went on in um end of February into March
(41:50):
was really the first time we were playing many of
these songs UM, some of them the very first time
UM in front of audiences. And so I think they
are at this point still pretty close to how the record,
how they sound on the record, but I think it
will be. That's one of the fun things about performing
live is that it is fun when songs kind of
do start to take on a new life for the
(42:11):
stage as opposed to in the studio. Is that something
that that you've experienced in your in your in your
solo careers, that that songs that you have come to
play and know, you know kind of intimately over the
years do take on sort of a different Oh totally.
Sometimes I after being on tour for a year playing
the songs from my record in the magic hour, I
(42:32):
will somebody like it'll be on. So we'll put the
record on and I'll be like, what song is this? Like,
I don't do it the same way at all, because
I don't know if you guys have had that experience,
but yeah, do you forget kind of the original version
of it, I have, UM, the arrangements haven't changed yet
that much. But even you know, we played we were
in Atlanta, friend was in the audience who had just
had a baby, and UM we got to say hi
(42:55):
before the show, and I was there were a couple
of songs that I was singing with sort of his
current life status in mind and UM, and some of
the lyrics took on new meaning because of that, UM,
which I really like. UM. You closed the record with
(43:17):
a gillion welch tune, hundred miles of the of the
many songs you could have chosen to cover, why that one?
We actually do cover a lot of songs for the
before we made this record, before we started writing it,
we would we had like two hours of cover songs
we were a cover band, and then we would also
(43:37):
do a few songs from our own material. But I
think the reason we chose that to record was well,
one of the reasons is, you know, we are all
huge admirers of her songwriting, as is the world and UM,
and it was it was kind of cool to have
(43:59):
have learned this one that she hadn't recorded. UM. I
came across, you know, a handful of songs that she
hadn't recorded UM, and that one was was really uh.
I just stood out and we we played it live
a little bit on the before you Know on tours,
but the version that you hear on the album was
(44:20):
UM is totally different than how we were performing it.
We UH. We tried to record it the way we
had been playing it. We thought it would be an
easy one because we actually knew it, and it just
didn't fit the album. So we came back to it
at the end of the process and I think it
was the last song that we recorded, and we tried
to play it. It just wasn't working, and I think
Eva was like, can we just do it acapella? Like
(44:41):
just see how it goes? And Ethan was went over
and played some pump organ and we um, we might
have just barely mapped it out like you started you
come in, I think I'll come in on the chorus
and you know well and uh, And we played it
down and that's that's the version that you hear on
(45:02):
the album and it's UM. I think we just needed,
having having gone through that intense three weeks for recording process. UM.
That was just the way that it seemed to fit
the rest of the songs, and it seemed to be
it seemed to suit us like kind of the new
us that had gone through this recording process and and
(45:22):
tightened up as a band. You know, I think in
terms of our vision for the band and also are playing,
it seemed to fit us better when we came through that.
I mean, it really strikes me listening to the three
of you talk about the process from beginning to write,
to go into England to record the record, to now
that there's been a real evolution amongst the three of
(45:45):
you as a band that you've kind of come to
understand kind of who you are as a band. And
am I right in that? I think it's yeah. I
think it's you know, constantly evolving as we embark on
this tour, which we just had a planning meeting, and
there's there's lots more to come, and we're also excited
about I don't know, taking these these songs to as
(46:07):
many places as we can possibly go with them, and
then you're seeing what's next after that. You know, I
think we'll all continue to make albums under our own
name and continue to collaborate in the ways that we
always have and this is just it's just such a
blast being in this band. I think for all three
of us, well, all I can tell you is it's
a blast having you here at the Grammy Museum. In
(46:29):
our on our podcast required listening, I'm with Her, Sarah
if Sarah, thank you, thanks for having us, Thank you,
thank you. I personally love discussing John Hartford with the
band their Reverend spur his work, his fearless and eclectic
approach really help me understand I'm with Her. On a
(46:50):
musical level, check out Hartford's groundbreaking release aero Plane Long
Before Oh Brother, where Art Thou John Hartford recorded an
now Them with bluegrass grates Norman Blake on guitar, Tuck
Taylor on dobro vassar, Clements on fiddle, Randy Scrugs on bass,
and Hartford playing guitar and banjo. The music is joyous, irreverent,
(47:11):
and top notch. Musicianship is everywhere. Check out tracks like
Turn Your Radio On or Up on the Hill where
they do the boogie, and you'll instantly get Hartford's unique
musical sensibility. Then go back to I'm with Her and
listen to the energy and musicianship on the track waits Field.
I'm with HER's new album is called See You Around,
(47:32):
and that's your required listening for today. Let me know
what you think of John Hartford and I'm with Her.
We're on all the socials at Grammy Museum. If you're
planning a visit to Los Angeles, I hope you'll come
see us. All the info is at our website Grammy
Museum dot org. As always, my thanks to the team
that makes required listening happen, Jason James, Justin Joseph Jim Cannella,
(47:53):
Lynn Sheridan, Miranda Moore, Callie Weissman, Lenn Brown, Mike Wherbacher,
Jason Hope, Chandler Mays, Nick Stump, and the entire team
at how Stuff Works for required listening. I'm Scott Goldman.
We'll see you next time.
Welcome to Required Listening. I'm your host Scott Goldman, Executive
director of the Grammy Museum. Each week in the Clive
Davis Theater, I have the opportunity to speak with artists
from across the musical spectrum about their careers, their influences,
their struggles, and their creative process. Now, I'm a truly
lucky guy, as are the two hundred guests that get
to attend our public programs at the Grammy Museum. Now
(00:27):
with Required Listening, I'm thrilled to share these interviews with
you on today's episode, My Conversation with the Band I'm
with Her. The band is comprised of three accomplished musicians,
Sarah Watkins, Sarah Jerose, and Ifa O'Donovan. Each has made
their mark as solo artists and as members of other bands.
(00:50):
Sarah jer Rose is a two time Grammy Award winning
multi instrumentalist and singer. Ifa O'Donovan is the founder of
the string band Crooked Still and has collaborated with artists
from Yo Yo Ma to Chris Thealy to the Boston Pops.
Sarah Watkins is a founder of the band Nickel Creek
and has maintained an active solo career, releasing three of
her own albums as fellow travelers on the acoustic and
(01:13):
bluegrass music festival circuit, They've been around each other since
they were young. In some ways, I'm with Her was
bound to happen. They came together at an informal jam
session during the two thousand fourteen Tell Your Ride Bluegrass Festival.
Struck by the seamless and exciting sound of the music
they made, they resolved to get together and work on
(01:33):
writing songs. Two intense songwriting sessions led to recording at
Peter Gabriel's Real World Studios in England with producer Eaton John's.
The resulting album, See You Around, was completed in January
two thousand sixteen, but because of each member's individual commitments,
the album didn't come out until early two thousand eighteen.
(01:54):
But it was well worth the weight. We discussed their
unique intention to subvert the individual in favor of the group.
In fact, I still have trouble consistently identifying who's singing lead,
and I will tell you they love that. I think
you'll get a sense of how committed they are to
being a band. Their collaborative musicianship is flawless, as are
(02:14):
the blend of their voices. We talked about the welcoming
and collaborative nature of the musical community that they grew
up in and how that community helped them develop their
own artistry in the process. We got together on a
recent afternoon in the Clive Davis Theater exclusively for required listening.
So let's listen to my conversation with I'm with her.
(02:38):
Thank you all for being here, really appreciate Um. So,
first of all, I know you've you've completed an East
coast leg of this tour behind the album. So how's
it going. It's going so well. We're we're having at
last it was kind of east coast Midwest. Um, we
(03:00):
all the way down to Tennessee. Did you hit any
of those like ten thousand northeasters that went through the
northeast all that snow thankfully whatever, which was which was
a blessing, But no, it's it's been a blast. And
um we had a couple of weeks off an hour
here on the West coast. Um, and just it's so
fun to like finally play these songs for people. Yeah, Um,
(03:21):
and I want to talk about that because you know,
there there's an this is an interesting construction um this
band because you all have you know, kind of built
out solo careers and you recorded this record two years ago.
But before before we get there, I want to talk
about kind of how you met because there's um it's
(03:43):
almost as if this was bound to happen in some way,
and there's this whole community, you know, whether it's the
Old Settlers Festival or Rocky Grass or tell your Ride
where you guys were kind of in each other's orbit
for a period of time. What is it about, respectively,
(04:04):
the music that you make individually that attracted you to
each other? Can you can you speak to that a
little bit? Yeah? I think it's uh, Well, we all
are lucky to be a part of the sort of
large and rich musical community of multigenerational really kind of
growing up listening to music that we love and then
(04:26):
getting to eventually make music with the people we grew
up listening to. I think that's sort of been a
common theme for all of us. I met Sarah in
two thousand and one at the Philadelphia Folk Festival. Sarah Watkins, Um,
I had you know Nicol Creek had put out I
think only one record at that that point. Uh, And
it was before this side came out, and I remember
watching her saying and just being being pretty star struck. Honestly,
(04:47):
you guys were headlining on the Friday night at the
main stage, and I was playing with a band called
The Wayfaring Strangers. It was really my first, the first
gig I ever did at a folk festival, and we met,
We met that weekend, crazy to me, and uh, and
I think we have that. You mentioned Old Settlers. That's
where Watkins and Duro's met um that that same year,
I think in two thousand and one, and Duros and
(05:08):
I met then five years later at the Rocky Grass Festival.
And it's just I think just speaks to the fact
that our scene is so so open, and you know,
oftentimes people will be backstage who may not necessarily be
headlining the festival, or maybe in a in a newer band,
or may just be a guest of somebody else backstage,
and there are jams, there are people making music with
each other, and that's it's still like that, and it
just feels really lucky that I don't know that we
(05:29):
all met in such an informal context. And then fast
forward you know, fifteen years and we're here at the
Grammy Museum. In hindsight, it does feel like it was
just bound to happen at some point because it has
become quite a natural fit. We all just you know,
we live well together, and we travel all together, and
we love to you know, write and work together. And um,
(05:52):
I think it's part of sharing that uh similar scenes
in background is you know, we have a similar way
of communicating and and and pretty uh like like our standards,
what we what we want a song to be like.
One of the one my favorite things about writing in
(06:12):
this band is that is that everyone really wants to
make sure that you know, we we skip over some
of the maybe the first or second choices that might
seem obvious or satisfying in some way, but not necessarily
how we all kind of want to get a song out.
It's hard to describe, but um, it all makes fair
(06:34):
good working relationships. Yeah, um, and I want to go
into the songwriting a little bit, but but I want
to step back just just for a minute, maybe for
for those listening who aren't necessarily familiar with that collaborative
culture um in in the music scene that each of
you grew up in UM. You know, particularly at festivals,
(06:55):
there are things that go on amongst those playing at
the festivals in terms of after hours jams and and
people be invited being invited to play with other other artists.
Talk about that a little bit in terms of your
growth as a musician. Yeah, I mean it's funny because
we were talking about how, yes, there's so many things
(07:16):
that it makes it seem like this band was destined
to be a band for a long time. But at
the same time, you could look at it in the
other way, where like I was nine years old when
I met Sarah Watkins, and if you have told me
then that we were going to be in a band
together someday, I would have told you that you were crazy,
you know. So, so like it's it's cool to like
think think that far back, and the context of that
is exactly what you're saying. It was just a workshop
(07:39):
at the Old Siler's Music Festival outside of Austin, Texas, UM,
which is where I'm from. Just you know, there's there's
kind of these extracurricular things that happened at festivals where,
in addition to be being able to watch a band
do a main stage set, you also might get to
see them do a workshop earlier on in the day,
which was what happened that day. I think you guys
just kind of it wasn't even necessarily a workshop. It
(08:01):
was like a smaller performance on a smaller stage before
your main stage show that night. And so because of that,
it was an attempt I was able to like go
up to them afterwards and and say hello and try
to get a signature, which is so cool. Like just
the access to um musicians, UM, especially as a younger musician.
(08:23):
It's just something that you see happen a lot, and
it's encouraged and UM. It allows for the music and
the tradition to kind of be passed along and shared
and and and that is an important part of that,
is passing along the tradition. There's a repertoire. You know,
they're the large though it may be, but there there
is a repertoire that is shared. Is that Is that
(08:45):
a place where you guys met musically in that in
that sort of shared repertoire. Yeah, we were well when
we I tell you right, and we were going to
share the stage and do a workshop together with a
couple of the great musicians Um, the three of us
were able to get together and just work up harmonies
on a few songs, and we found a song or
two that work that was common that we would you know,
(09:06):
could easily find a three part harmony stack on and
and and so they're there. That does ease the the
speed of sort of collaboration and communication. But I want
to just say though, that like the festivals and and
that kind of overlaps with camps to me, because I
got to go to fiddle camp, Michael Connor's fiddle camp
(09:28):
when I was I think thirteen and fourteen. It was
his first two camps in Nashville, and um, and I
met so many people who I still know who there
who are people who are really really good friends. And
I met them there at that camp, and I would
see them at festivals. So you see them. You could
spend this week. I got to spend this week with
(09:49):
these terrific teachers and players of all ages and all
ability ranges and styles. And then the next summer we'd
go to you know, a handful of festivals and I'd
see kids that I knew from this fiddle camp, and
we could play tunes that we had learned at camp.
Or we could like find each other in the campground
(10:09):
for those after hours jams that you were talking about,
and so it it just feels like it's very fluid
and natural, the progression from hanging out with your friends
too jamming in a parking lot to like being in
a band and getting to play the kids stage and
then all of a sudden someone gives you a leg
up and it's like, hey, why don't you play for
fifteen minutes on the main stage, And like that happened
(10:30):
to me too. I feel like that's a a really
beautiful story that that um that a lot of people
can tell, and I'm so glad that it's you know,
pretty common and and it really you know, if you
look at the you know, kind of the modern music business,
the modern music business is not necessarily set up to
(10:52):
encourage career development in many respects that you know, I
think you're totally right. But because it's bluegress, there's not
a much of business involved. Like it's not something people
are going in to be lucrative. Yeah, it's it is
a hobbyists life, but there is that that interest and
that willingness and that energy to to bring people along,
(11:18):
you know, people who want to participate, to give them
the chance to go to camp, to give them a
chance to play on a kid's stage, to give them
a chance to play on the main stage there. It's it's,
it's it's a very nice system. For lack of a
better term. I think if you go back and look
at the broader genre that that this is, it is
folk music, and folk music is music of the people.
(11:39):
And I think it's always been like that that it's
it's always been encouraging of the younger generation. And and
as Sarah said, a hobbyists genre. I mean that's not
that's not off base. I mean a lot of people
get into playing folk music as for fun on the side.
Especially when I started playing bluegrass and all time music.
It was in Boston at the cantab Lounge, this legendary
(11:59):
dive bar and a bridge um and I remember most
of the guys who were up there on Tuesday nights.
This is before over the art that came out, so
really before you know, a ton of people were playing
blue grass sort of on the bigger stages that that
everybody knew about. And all the guys up on stage
at the can Tap were you know, they worked at
m I T and they worked at Harvard or they
were electricians or whatever, and they were playing blue grass.
(12:20):
They were they were badasses and they were just jamming
every Tuesday night, and that was I don't know. I
think that there's there's something to be said for that
as well. You look out the audience at a festival
such as Rocky Grass, for instance, I bet you of
the audience have guitars and sing songs with their friends.
They're relating to the bands on stage as um, people
(12:41):
who speak the same language. And I think that you know,
when it's that commonality and that appreciation, the way that like,
you know, someone who uh you know, might might build
a little a little something in their garage, know, tinkering
with something they might appreciate, you know, the workmanship of
(13:04):
all different levels um in a unique way, an insider's way.
And I think that that's something that you see a
lot at folk festivals. When when you guys got together
at Tell You Ride, I think this was two thousand
fourteen and you got invited I think it was Chris
Maybe invited you guys to to do some songs, and
you were saying that that you got together and found
some songs that you could put together a harmony stack on.
(13:28):
It's you know, it just sounds so simple. Was it
that simple? Kind of I mean not to not to
sort of under I don't know, I make it seem
less cool than it was. But but what was really magical,
I think was not the putting together the harmony stack,
but was how naturally it felt to sing the songs
(13:49):
and naturally the blend felt to us. I think that
that that was sort of the wow moment, not not like, oh,
let's all try to you know, find a part here,
because that's that's something that we're all used to doing.
It was it was sort of the magic of the
sound of the three voices together to me. And it's
and it seems like you know, but just just based
on video that you know that I've watched, Um, did
you immediately gravitate to that one microphone and you're all
(14:11):
singing around it? Was that? Was that something you went to?
We don't do that all the time. Yeah, I think
that's something that is a, um, a great way to
get this music across. It's it's a good way to
do that, and UM, a lot of times it's it's
easier for us to make sure that we're blending and
mixing the way that we want to if we just
(14:32):
do it ourselves on stage, um around one microphone. UM.
So there's a there's a simplicity to it kind of
and also it's it's really great to play with each
other that well, like facing each other that close together.
I find, like I think everyone's very common scenario that
(14:52):
you're like you're running songs backstage and dressing room and
you're facing each other and you're really close together. It
sounds great, and then you get on stage and it's
like not, it's kind of wobbly, and you just don't
don't have the pocket that you had because you're you know,
spread out in a straight line. You can't quite here
as well as you did. And there's a great pleasure
to me of just singing around that one mike and
(15:13):
getting to to really um focus on the sound and
just kind of uh, it's I am able to get
into a different kind of focus zone that way. Well.
And it strikes me from watching and this is just
you know, sort of an observation that you're playing as
much for each other as you are for people in
(15:35):
the audience. Is that how it feels to you guys. Yeah,
I I would say so, and I think I think
it was important. Um, you know, we we were really
playing around the one mic mostly for the first couple
of years that as this band, and I feel like it,
as Sarah was saying, it's like sonically unifying, UM to
kind of as a young band, be able to be
(15:58):
that close and figure out what our blend is, what
our vibe is, how the different tampers of our voice
voices go together, instead of like just right away going
to a multi mike set up, I think and now
I I personally feel more comfortable on a multi mike
setup having had the time put in with the one mic. UM.
And I still think we all it's nice to go
(16:19):
back to the one mike too, because it just it's
so it's so special and intimate and and close that way.
But I think it's important to our sounds. Certainly, if
you guys ever come back and do a performance here,
that would be We've only had one artist do that here. Yeah,
and it sounded. Um, it's very surprising, that's the only
(16:40):
when Yeah, who is it, Tiff Merritt? Oh great? Yeah, nice? Yeah,
I want to talk about you know, kind of shared
influences just for a minute, and we talked about festivals
and and that kind of stuff. But but I've read
some things that that you guys have discussed amongst yourself
UM albums that you have shared a love for over time,
(17:07):
and I'm wondering if there's a couple maybe that you
could tell me that stand out for you that you
guys have all said, Oh wait a minute, I love
that record. UM. Well, I feel like the one thing
we've talked about is like the Tim and Moally O'Brien UM,
just in terms of like great harmony singing. UM. I
feel like we yeah, a way out on the Mountain UM,
(17:27):
just such great UM song selections and and harmony singing.
And that's just a record I think that we all
have put time in and UM and really loved. And
then there's obviously the Vampire Weekend Okay, yeah, the Modern
Vampires of the City we we UM. What's fun is
(17:48):
that that when we went on our first three week
tour in Europe, UM, I had actually never heard that
record before, and they Ifa and Sarah had had put
in time with it and and so it was fun.
But I don't I feel like you guys hadn't heard
it in a while, and so it was like it
was new then when it came out, Okay, but you
had already put in some time months before that, yeah, so,
(18:10):
but it was it was so we like blasted in
the car over the course of those three weeks, and
it was just so fun because it was just the
three of us. It's uh, I feel like it's rare
these days to revisit the same album in the course
of a tour. Very often, like a lot of times
when you're driving Mountain down the road, everyone's you know,
sharing their their favorites, are just taking turns, deejaying and
(18:30):
and a lot of times the temptation is to just
like you know, put in a different you know, make
a playlist of different songs and different artists each time.
But it's really great to put in albums and I
feel like, I mean, that's a unique experience in last
like ten years for me to put in the same
album probably ten times in one in one road trip,
(18:53):
you know, and and it was it was really good.
Is there is there something on the playlist right now,
some album that's being played repeatedly, Well, this like this
leg is just starting so the Sound of Music. Actually
have really been listening a lot to the Sound of
Music soundtrack and it's really good. I just want to
say for the record, sometimes you just have to go
(19:14):
dig way back deep into your subliminal early influences and
figure out what it is that makes you tick. And
I think it's Christopher Plumber for me. He does such
a good job on that. There's one there's one artist
that I have to ask you about because he's an
all time favorite of mine, going back, and I'm old,
going way back, and that's John Hartford. It's just about
(19:36):
to say Scene power Plant is another favorite of ours.
Um and and I was lucky enough when I was
a teenager I went to see him at a weird
festival in Massachusetts and somehow got backstage and got to
talk to him for a period of time and ask
what festival, Um, you know what. I don't even remember
the name. I remember it was in the town of Fitchburg, Massachusetts,
(19:58):
which is in central Massachuset. It was in a high
school football stadium and it was Hartford. And I don't
even remember who else was on the bill because I
was just focused on him and they were playing off
the back of a flat peg truck. That's that's really,
That's really all I remember. And there was very you
know back in those days. This I was going to say,
(20:19):
early seventies that a lot like I can tell you
right on real fast, both started on flat trucks. Yeah,
And and I just walked back there and he was
leaning against a car or whatever. And this was after
Aeroplane had come out and before he had released that
Warner Brothers, the last Warner Brothers record he did, and
he was going on and on with me about how
(20:41):
there there was four sides of material that he recorded
and Warner Brothers would only release one record, and he
was off about that. But the genius nonetheless, So what
is it about John Hartford that you guys do? For me?
I got to spend a little bit of time with
him as well, and um, for me, he was a
(21:05):
gateway out of a lot of the things that I
was really listening for when I was a kid. It
was which was, you know, you're a kid, you're listening
to like speed and precision. I think that's you know,
pretty typical for like high school age kids. And then
something like Hartford broke all the rules and I didn't
know why I loved him so much, and I couldn't
I couldn't put my put my finger on it because
(21:28):
he defied my my typical checklist. But I feel like
there's so much of his personality came out in his
songwriting and in his performances in a way that you
don't see a lot, you know, like you I feel
like other people who do that are or were, um
maybe like Harry Nilson and Roger Miller, those kinds of
(21:50):
characters who let that silliness come out in the songs. Um,
Johnny Fritz says, a guy who's opening for us, And
I think he also lets his personality come out in
his songs, and I say their way, but um, it's uh.
And he was also really kind to me and and um,
but I think the personality, like like see, seeing feeling,
(22:15):
getting an impression of who he is through his music
was something that I hadn't experienced in that way, And
that was the first thing I think that drew me in,
and then from there it just goes so deep that
you know, you could I mean, he really he had
a vision, I think, of where where he believed his
music should go, and he was going to follow that regardless,
(22:37):
which I always which I thought, there's a confidence in
that of just writing, you know, being himself truly through
and through and in all the wacky weird things. I mean.
The legend is that he wrote the UM the Washing
Machine song the same day as he wrote Gentle in
My Mind UM, and I just I love that. Yeah,
(22:59):
it feels it feels like his his music is like
an extension of himself more than like a performance. UM.
Also one one fun fact is that I the first
time I met Sarah was also the first time that
I saw John Hartford live at the Adult Sellers and
that was his you guys played, Nicol Creek played with him,
and that would end up being his last, his last
(23:20):
performance public performance, UM, which I just feel so thankful
to have seen that, and it just felt like a
very That's also the first day I met Tim O'Brien
and Daryl Scott, Like it just felt like a fortuitous day.
So there's there's a track on the record waits Field.
I think that's your You've said, is your homage to Hartford? No,
(23:40):
I mean I don't think it. I don't think it is.
I think I might have said I'm not sure in homage,
but like I definitely think of him a little bit
and in the silliness of that tune, but it wasn't
it wasn't written as like a tribute to him. Um.
I just feel like there's a little bit of what
you guys do sort of put out at the end
(24:01):
of that. Yeah, the performance, I think when we recorded
that song, I remember just everybody kind of holding their breath,
just trying to get to the end of that nothing
it up and when we did, that's why there's this
this sort of everybody's holding their breath and then we
laugh and it's just I think we left it on
the on the record because it just, yeah, that is
really what happened, and it actually adds to the musical
(24:22):
experience of listening to that track. I think it's us.
I mean there's an energy, you know, you sort of
pick up the energy at the end, you know, you
kind of realize what you guys were. You know, we're
going through as you were. And that song has been
so fun to play live every night. That's sort of
a moment that that I look forward to in the
set every night, just just as it really does feel
like a release. Yeah, that's great when we when we
(24:42):
made it, we were I think a little bit slap
happy at the time. And I feel like it was
pretty late in the process of making the record. And
I also think it was late at night or after dinner,
or maybe just before dinner or something. And I think
by that point we were we were I was just
trying to remember the arrangement. I don't know why, but
(25:03):
there is something about it that just like I could
not I just kept like getting like distracted or lost
or something. And so I was particularly delighted to just
make it through that song. And I think what you
hear on the album is the first time we actually
did finish it. It's like the third third, third attempt,
first succeed success. I want to talk about songwriting for
for a minute, um Um, and I'm wondering, you know,
(25:25):
particularly for for for this record. Were these songs that
each of you individually were kind of bringing to the
group or was it a shared songwriting experience? How how
did the songwriting work? Well, Um, it kind of happened
in two chunks um of writing sessions. One here in
(25:47):
l a h in the summer July, and then another
eight day um writing session in Vermont. Um at a
farmhouse in rural Vermont in December UM And something that
we've kind of talked about that I think was so
important to the writing process was the fact that we
were living together for both of those stints. We were
(26:10):
in the same well, I guess when we were in
Los Angeles, we were EFA and I were in an airbnb.
Sarah lives here, but we were basically all at the
airbnb the entire time, and you know, making lunch together
and kind of living our days together, which I think
was so important to uh the stories of these songs
feeling shared, even if you know, there definitely were moments
(26:31):
when you know, someone would bring in a verse in
a chorus or a start of an idea to a song.
But because we're living together for for these two writing stints,
just the nature of talking through the stories and kind
of having to explain yourself a little bit. I think
that was something that was so enlightening about this writing
process for me is that I feel like I've written
(26:52):
by myself so much that you know, when when you
write a song by yourself, an idea that makes sense
to you or a line that makes total sense to
you might not actually make sense to someone else and
just by having these um conversations of oh, but what
is that line? What are you trying to say? And
then that turns into a conversation, and then the conversation
(27:13):
turns back into the song. I think that that whole
process of being together for several days in a row
um allowed these stories to feel like for all of
us to have ownership over them and feel like a
shared thing. Did you guys both you know, sort of
all jump in on that sort of feedback loop? Was that? Yeah, yeah,
(27:35):
that definitely. What do you mean, like, well, just in
terms of bringing ideas and then and then you know,
kind of not not challenging, but but refining. Yes, but
that in an addition to that process of everybody bringing
ideas and refining, there were also a couple of instances
where we really did just start songs from scratch in
the same room as each other. Where I mean, of course, yes,
(27:55):
an idea I can't spontaneously spring out of three people's
brains at once. Somebody would start with a groove and
then we would sort of you know, I remember writing
Game to Lose was one that that came up, came
out like that. I think the verses for that song.
I remember sitting in the room in Vermont and just
sort of I don't even remember who started playing a
groove and then we were just kind of like no, no no, no,
like and then we kind of went went from there
(28:16):
and it really just naturally, like just the ideas kept
on snowballing and then they were refined after that. So
for processes such as that one or also and yeah, um,
where the the idea would get started with the three
of us and then kind of back up and you
kind of go back to the place of like, Okay,
even though we all brought this idea, we can still
all challenge it, you know what I mean remember it? Um,
(28:40):
Do you still look at an album as a body
of work? Definitely? Because you know that's that too, has
been challenged in the modern Yeah. You know, I've been
thinking about it though, and like I think we do
all think of an albums as its own thing. Um.
(29:02):
But you know, like it's not the first time that
people have been listening to one song at a time, right,
Like that's kind of how things started. One people put
out an Aside and a beast, you know, and it
was singles was how it started. Um, why there's a
record of the year and it's a song. UM. So
(29:24):
it kind of just going back to how it started,
where people were listening to one song at a time
from a band. UM. But I think that you will
always find that a good amount of of of recording
artists will want to see that full picture as as
(29:46):
a standalone piece or as as as like a a
thought you know, for you for you? Is there is
there a thematic thread? Is there something that ties the
songs together? Travel has been a theme that people have
sort of latched onto when when we've talked to people
about the record. I don't think we went into it
(30:07):
saying let's write it and an album um with this
theme in mind. But but listening back, I do get
a sense of the the narrator or whoever the protagonist,
or whoever is singing these songs is a traveler, and
we are all travelers. I feel like there's a one
of the things that comes out of living in this
(30:28):
like shared space for those two writing stints is that
the songs did come from a time and place, and
so I think that there common threads are you know,
what we were all bringing to the table, as you know,
our concerns or our stories or what we've been thinking through.
(30:48):
UM that for those like that week that we were together,
that's what is on the album. So it makes sense
that there is a common thread, though I don't know
what it would be. I feel like it's just what
life was that week you Um, you went away to
(31:14):
record this record, UM far away in fact, you know,
to the UK. Um. Um was that isolation helpful? I mean,
you you're you're you know, a long way from home,
long way you know, potentially from from friends and family,
though you may have friends over there. UM it did.
(31:35):
Did that help in getting this done? I think so? Yeah,
I think it was. It was pretty necessary because of
all of our crazy schedules. I mean the fact that
we were able to squeeze in making the record in
three weeks at a crazy time. We were all about
to release our own solo records. Um Efa released her
(31:56):
record UM in the Magic Hour, the day that we
flew away from the studio. UM. Yeah, I was still
mixing my record Undercurrent, which one two Grammys, and Watkins
was like in the process of release. Ours came out
a month apart from each other. So it was wild.
And I think because all of that was sort of
(32:19):
you know, building, we were kind of getting in the
headspace of going on tour and doing these record release things.
I think it was really important to just get away
from any of our individual domains and just be removed
and be really focused for an intense focus for three weeks.
I mean we really did. We ate every meal together
(32:43):
with Ethan. It was really entire here. You got tired
of the soup. Yeah, you would really think that we
would have gotten tired of each other, But miraculously we
would end up in this this little common room that
had like three couches, and we would all sit on
like one half of one couch literally during our free time.
And I think people other people who were there like
(33:04):
must have thought we were actually insane because we would
be together all the the and then like after rids,
Sarah Watkins would make a fire in the fireplace because
that's just how boss she is, and we would sit
on half of the couch and just like be silly.
It's just it's quite incredible. You guys work with Ethan
John's Yeah, why him? What what? What? What? Why choose
(33:26):
him as the producer we're talking you're talking about um
common music that that that and I think on that
I feel like it's his name came up when we
were first on that tour in the UK, that three
week tour that we were driving around, maybe were driving
around somewhere else, but we were talking about like, if
we made an album, who would we make it with?
(33:46):
Who would we you know? And his name came up
as someone who um whose work we'd all you know,
really enjoyed, and I'd worked with him years before, and
so we eventually really you know, we we kept talking
about it and thinking about it and finally reached out
and and he was interested with Jose And if I
(34:09):
didn't actually meet him until we got to the studio,
we face timed him from Vermont three weeks before we
started the record, but like that was that was it.
So it was I think that added did the intensity
of it, because you know, you're flying all the way
to to London and then driving to Box which is
outside of bath While and and you're they're living and
(34:32):
eating and recording there for three weeks and it's just
kind of an intense commitment when you haven't met someone.
And so we you know, we arrived and uh and
then you know, saw the most intimate recording set up.
I think, you know, we we worked in before and
UM and just kind of started started it off. And
(34:52):
I feel like because of the intensely intimate way that
we recorded with no headphones, no separation and at all,
we were um as close as we are when we
stand together backstage rehearsing. UM and he and the Ethan
and the engineer Dominic Monks, we're right like ten feet
(35:17):
away in the same room, no no separation at all,
So they were just listening to us perform in front
of the mix without without the monitors or anything on.
Maybe I think the engineer had headphones, but like, UM,
it was it was just everyone was just very focused
on the performance and listening to each other and the moment.
(35:40):
And Ethan has a reputation for being like a first
take producer, and we definitely experienced that and definitely pushed
for sometimes like a second and third performance because these
songs we've written three weeks before, we didn't have any
experience performing them. So I think, um, we fought for
that a little bit early on and then and then
(36:02):
hit our stride and I feel like it's they got
great sounds. Yeah, I mean the record sounds terrific, But
you know that that producer artist relationship is oftentimes key two.
The sound of a record to you know, maybe the
way the songs are constructed, what, you know, whatever it
might be. Um, you know, the producer can shape songs
(36:24):
or sonics, sometimes be the psychologist and sort of hold
the mirror up and totally band therapy. Yeah, you know this,
this is what you're doing. How did he work with you?
What was what was so good about working with him? Well,
I mean, I think it kind of was the pushing
us to kind of expose the rawness of what we have.
(36:47):
And I think, I mean maybe the main reason that
I was so interested in wanting to work with him
was his ability to capture dynamics on a recording, which
I just feel is something that I don't hear much
anymore on records. It's like a wall of sound and
and many records to me these days just sound very horizontal. Um.
And that's something that I've loved about when you when
(37:10):
you say dynamics, you mean like you know, loud, solid,
getting like really soft and then exploding you know. Um,
I just think and you know, and a lot of
that has to do with dominic monks as well. But
but I think it's a combination of kind of, like
you said, the psychology of its kind of forcing it
to be this very intimate, intense thing where there's no isolation,
(37:33):
as Sarah was saying, And you know that that was
his his doing, you know, I think had we not
walked into the room and it was set up like that, like,
who knows what it would have been like. So I
think that that was that's kind of his strength, is
creating that that environment where everything is just really bare
and honest, because because I did read something that when
(37:54):
you first walked into the studio there was a fair
amount of trepidation about the way it was set up. Yeah,
I think I had never been in a recording studio
without the luxury of my own zone, you know, my
own headphone mix and my own you know, just space too,
Like it's okay if I mess up once, because I
can always just go ahead and fix that if it's
(38:16):
an otherwise perfect take. And um, I think because we
had written the music so close to the recording session,
we had come out of the Vermont writing session and
come December twelveth orte Or, it was very very close
to when we went to the UK January two. So, um,
it's not like we've been playing these songs for a
year and we knew them very well, so it was
(38:36):
a little bit scary. But that being said, what we
got out of that recording session, I think is an
album that that I mean, we're talking earlier about John
Hartford as an extension of himself and the music that
he makes. And I feel like we were almost not
forced into doing that, but it definitely helped us and
encouraged us to be more ourselves. And I think that
when you listen to the album, that's that's what I think,
(38:56):
what you hear is the three of us and and
our band I'm with her and not just sort of
like another thing with all all the bells and whistles.
And you know, one of the things that that um
struck me UM, particularly listening, you know, listening to the
songs and then and then subsequently reading a little bit. UM.
I was never and I don't think to this day,
(39:17):
I'm exactly sure who's singing what and and and And
I think that that's quite intentional on on your point
that that you um, and don't take this the wrong
way that that you subverted the individual for the group.
Am I right in that? I think so? Yeah, And
(39:37):
I would take that as a compliment on a step.
That's that's that's We're a band. We're not doing this
project calling it, you know, Sarah Watkin, Sarah Jero's EPO
done even. I mean, we're we're a band. We think
of ourselves as a band. We don't I'm not waiting
for my turn to get up and sing my song
or going to pat myself on the back for you know,
anything that I'm doing on stage. I feel like we're
all thinking of it as a trio, our project because
(39:59):
as you know, as I listen to the songs, it's
I do not feel that I'm listening to who's ever
singing lead, that I'm listening to that person's story. That's
not kind of where it it resonates for me. Um,
and it was right on with our experience too. Yeah.
I mean, seriously, I couldn't you know, could be me?
(40:22):
I don't know, um Um. The you know. The the
other thing and we touched on this when we started
is these songs were recorded in two thousand and sixteen,
and then you guys go off and have you know,
you all released records and you're doing other things, and
here you are now it's it's two thou eighteen and
now you're touring and I'm wondering, as you got back together,
(40:45):
have the songs changed? Have they evolved in some way? Um?
I don't not much. I mean I think that they
might begin to as we as we kind of go
further into this year of actually being on the road, um,
playing them. But I really feel like in order for
because we knew the reality of our schedules, we knew
(41:06):
that in order to make this work as a band,
because we were all committed, we did have to kind
of put it to the side for a hot second,
which one up being two years. UM. And you know,
I think because we realized, you know, when we when
we flew away from England, were we kind of all
agreed to say, Okay, we're gonna kind of just going
to pretend that that doesn't exist, I think for the
(41:28):
sake of freshness, for the sake of it being realizing
that you know what the schedule is going to be like.
So I think we all did a really good job
of doing that. Um. And it's been fun this year
kind of I guess We started in January with a
couple of shows, but you know, the last tour that
we went on in um end of February into March
(41:50):
was really the first time we were playing many of
these songs UM, some of them the very first time
UM in front of audiences. And so I think they
are at this point still pretty close to how the record,
how they sound on the record, but I think it
will be. That's one of the fun things about performing
live is that it is fun when songs kind of
do start to take on a new life for the
(42:11):
stage as opposed to in the studio. Is that something
that that you've experienced in your in your in your
solo careers, that that songs that you have come to
play and know, you know kind of intimately over the
years do take on sort of a different Oh totally.
Sometimes I after being on tour for a year playing
the songs from my record in the magic hour, I
(42:32):
will somebody like it'll be on. So we'll put the
record on and I'll be like, what song is this? Like,
I don't do it the same way at all, because
I don't know if you guys have had that experience,
but yeah, do you forget kind of the original version
of it, I have, UM, the arrangements haven't changed yet
that much. But even you know, we played we were
in Atlanta, friend was in the audience who had just
had a baby, and UM we got to say hi
(42:55):
before the show, and I was there were a couple
of songs that I was singing with sort of his
current life status in mind and UM, and some of
the lyrics took on new meaning because of that, UM,
which I really like. UM. You closed the record with
(43:17):
a gillion welch tune, hundred miles of the of the
many songs you could have chosen to cover, why that one?
We actually do cover a lot of songs for the
before we made this record, before we started writing it,
we would we had like two hours of cover songs
we were a cover band, and then we would also
(43:37):
do a few songs from our own material. But I
think the reason we chose that to record was well,
one of the reasons is, you know, we are all
huge admirers of her songwriting, as is the world and UM,
and it was it was kind of cool to have
(43:59):
have learned this one that she hadn't recorded. UM. I
came across, you know, a handful of songs that she
hadn't recorded UM, and that one was was really uh.
I just stood out and we we played it live
a little bit on the before you Know on tours,
but the version that you hear on the album was
(44:20):
UM is totally different than how we were performing it.
We UH. We tried to record it the way we
had been playing it. We thought it would be an
easy one because we actually knew it, and it just
didn't fit the album. So we came back to it
at the end of the process and I think it
was the last song that we recorded, and we tried
to play it. It just wasn't working, and I think
Eva was like, can we just do it acapella? Like
(44:41):
just see how it goes? And Ethan was went over
and played some pump organ and we um, we might
have just barely mapped it out like you started you
come in, I think I'll come in on the chorus
and you know well and uh, And we played it
down and that's that's the version that you hear on
(45:02):
the album and it's UM. I think we just needed,
having having gone through that intense three weeks for recording process. UM.
That was just the way that it seemed to fit
the rest of the songs, and it seemed to be
it seemed to suit us like kind of the new
us that had gone through this recording process and and
(45:22):
tightened up as a band. You know, I think in
terms of our vision for the band and also are playing,
it seemed to fit us better when we came through that.
I mean, it really strikes me listening to the three
of you talk about the process from beginning to write,
to go into England to record the record, to now
that there's been a real evolution amongst the three of
(45:45):
you as a band that you've kind of come to
understand kind of who you are as a band. And
am I right in that? I think it's yeah. I
think it's you know, constantly evolving as we embark on
this tour, which we just had a planning meeting, and
there's there's lots more to come, and we're also excited
about I don't know, taking these these songs to as
(46:07):
many places as we can possibly go with them, and
then you're seeing what's next after that. You know, I
think we'll all continue to make albums under our own
name and continue to collaborate in the ways that we
always have and this is just it's just such a
blast being in this band. I think for all three
of us, well, all I can tell you is it's
a blast having you here at the Grammy Museum. In
(46:29):
our on our podcast required listening, I'm with Her, Sarah
if Sarah, thank you, thanks for having us, Thank you,
thank you. I personally love discussing John Hartford with the
band their Reverend spur his work, his fearless and eclectic
approach really help me understand I'm with Her. On a
(46:50):
musical level, check out Hartford's groundbreaking release aero Plane Long
Before Oh Brother, where Art Thou John Hartford recorded an
now Them with bluegrass grates Norman Blake on guitar, Tuck
Taylor on dobro vassar, Clements on fiddle, Randy Scrugs on bass,
and Hartford playing guitar and banjo. The music is joyous, irreverent,
(47:11):
and top notch. Musicianship is everywhere. Check out tracks like
Turn Your Radio On or Up on the Hill where
they do the boogie, and you'll instantly get Hartford's unique
musical sensibility. Then go back to I'm with Her and
listen to the energy and musicianship on the track waits Field.
I'm with HER's new album is called See You Around,
(47:32):
and that's your required listening for today. Let me know
what you think of John Hartford and I'm with Her.
We're on all the socials at Grammy Museum. If you're
planning a visit to Los Angeles, I hope you'll come
see us. All the info is at our website Grammy
Museum dot org. As always, my thanks to the team
that makes required listening happen, Jason James, Justin Joseph Jim Cannella,
(47:53):
Lynn Sheridan, Miranda Moore, Callie Weissman, Lenn Brown, Mike Wherbacher,
Jason Hope, Chandler Mays, Nick Stump, and the entire team
at how Stuff Works for required listening. I'm Scott Goldman.
We'll see you next time.
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