May 17, 2018 • 48 mins
From his musical upbringing to his new album and sobriety, GRAMMY-winning singer/songwriter Keith Urban goes deep in this installment of Required Listening.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Required Listening. I'm your host, Scott Goldman, Executive
director of the Grammy Museum. Each week in the Climb
Davis Theater, I have the chance to speak with artists
from across the musical spectrum about their careers, their inspirations,
and their creative process. Now with Required Listening, I'm excited
to share these interviews with you. On today's episode, my
(00:25):
conversation with one of the biggest artists and country music,
Keith Urban. I interviewed Keith in front of a live
audience as part of the two thousand and eighteen South
By Southwest Music Conference in Austin, Texas. In many ways,
Keith Urban helped to rewrite the rules for country music.
His self titled debut album produced four hit singles and
(00:45):
paved the way for his successful career. He opened for
major country artists, and his subsequent albums Golden Road and
be Here produced more hits and platinum sales. Our conversation
focused on his influences and creative process. We talked about
how he learned to make your own thing from John
Mellencamp and how that try anything, do anything approach his
(01:08):
wife employees in acting has served him well. In music.
So let's go to the Austin Convention Center and listen
to my conversation with Keith Urban. Would you please welcome
Keith Urban. Thanks thanks brother keeping that Hell yeah, I Austin.
(01:33):
Well thanks for stopping by. We thank you that we
appreciate it. You know, Um, you and I were talking
just before we started, and and the one thing, and
We've had the chance to do this a couple of times, um,
to to talk about songwriting and your process. And I've
rarely run into artists who get as animated as you
do when you start talking about songwriting and the things
(01:56):
that move you in music. So enrolling the videotape way
back to to your you know, very earliest childhood. What
is it that happened then that kind of inspires this
passion from music? What? What what were you hearing when
you were growing up? Well, my father was a drummer
(02:16):
in the fifties, and his father played piano, and all
his brothers played instruments. And I got that wonderful gift
of rhythm and music at an very early age. And
my mom and death for some reason, brought me at
ukulele when I was four, and they said I could
strum in time with songs on the radio, you know.
(02:37):
And so they said a sibil I guess what you
need to learn now as chords. And somebody said six
is a good a good age for learning guitar. So
they had this little corner store that they ran. And
this woman came by called Sue McCarthy when I was
six years old, weirdly enough, and asked to put a
ad in the window to teach guitar lessons. And they said,
(02:58):
just teach our kid, we'll put your out in the window. Yeah.
And your dad had a record collection, a lot of
great country artists. Yeah that that that you heard, Yeah,
because he had because he had grown up playing music
in the fifties and then rock and roll, this new
thing called rock and roll along. He was obsessed with that.
You know. I grew up in New Zealand and played
(03:20):
in the band doing all Bill Halena comments and Elvis
and Buddy Holly and everything from the fifties. And then
so as the sixties came along and rock kind of
diverged into all kinds of things, because at the beginning
it was very rockabillions, of course, you know, and so
there was a lot of people who kind of went
different ways, and my dad went more of a folk
way in the sixties and then eventually over towards the countries.
(03:41):
That's that's how he ended up. Thing. You did have
a formative experience in seeing Johnny Cash. Yeah, very you
were young, it was. My first concert was maybe five.
I think I was about five, and my dad it's
a good days to see Johnny Cash. Let me tell you.
My brother and I my dad brought us a little
Western shirts with little boller tie, the whole thing, and
(04:04):
off we went to see Johnny Cash. And what I
remember from that concept, you know, was just how loud
the crowd wasn't it was a five thousand seat venue,
which one you're tying, he mustn't be a stadium. And
I've never been first concept ever been to. And I
remember this, the roar of everybody when this guy walked
out on stage, and it's never left me. You know,
(04:26):
that power of that when he played the guitar and sang.
It was just an extraordinary thing, that connection he made
with everybody. Well, and we were having a conversation earlier
about Willie Nelson and that life force of performance and yeah,
that term because I says, just kicking ass out of
the road. It's unbelievable and so inspiring. And as you said,
(04:50):
it's it is that life force when you get on stage.
I mean, that's I'm sure kind of what you were feeling,
even at five as Cash walks out there. And I
think it was more that recognition of this is the
thing I meant to, you know. I think I think
it was more of that. It was like, oh, there,
this is this feels familiar. So you got a guitar um.
Tell me about your early guitar heroes. Just the guy
(05:14):
that lived up the street, you know, and the guy
that played in the local band, and like all the
unknown cats who never get props. So I think more
often than not, I think the local cats influenced a
lot of guitar players. Certainly in my case, they were
unknown names that for me were like I wish I
could play as good as that guy. Which guys play
(05:35):
as good as Red Grant for you know, Dallas sell
them and always got playing cover bands you had. One
of the things I would love to do is talk
to you know, great artists and compile, you know, a
listery book of the names of their early bands. Because
(05:56):
inevitably they're fantastic. And there there was a band. I'm
not and you were in this band, but there there
was a band named Fractured Mirror, right, um um, and
you had you had something to you got a guitar
off the guy or what what was that story? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
I um, you know, I grew up playing country. That
(06:16):
was what my parents immersed me into, and it was
what I took route to. But I'm also listening to
Top forty radio and and just sort of loving everything music.
Country is just rock, every whatever was being played, and
sort of in my teenage years, got asked to join
this band called Fractured Mirror, which is basically a heavy
metal band, and they played Judas Priest and Saxon and
(06:39):
White Snake and some through some Macy d c in
there and and it's just a scorpions And I didn't
know anything about that music, and they already had a
lead singer, so I just had to play guitar. But
I had a I had a Fender Telecaster and a
cool little Fender Twin reverb. And they're like, well that's
not gonna fly. You need needed Marshall stack, you know.
(07:01):
And I can't afforded Marshall stack, but the singer had one,
and so he'd loaned me as Marshall stack and I
was in heaven. It was like plugged the strap into
this marshal and off we went. So that was that
was I was in that band for about eight seconds.
Moving moving on well because because I just also discovered
Ricky Skaggs and Ray Flack, who was the guitar guitarist Records,
(07:24):
was doing all this stuff called chicken picking, and I
was obsessed with that. And so one night when I
was playing with Fraction Mirrah at this gig, one of
b any three gigs I think we ever did, we
were playing some song by one of these heavy metal
bands and I busted out a solo instead of started
chicken picking through the Marshall stack. And the band's like,
(07:45):
what the you know? And they fired me. So that
was That was the beginning of my rolling conundry musically.
But there was there was a moment. There was a
moment in um. John Mellencamp came to Australia. You've talked
about this um in terms of seeing him, you know,
(08:06):
kind of kind of getting an understanding of a marriage,
you know, of of roots music and energy. Yeah. Well,
and even more so because of that experience of feeling
like I love a lot about country music, I love
a lot about rock music. And I've played in by
that stage. I've been playing five nights in clubs since
I was fifteen. I quick school of fifteen and was
(08:27):
playing five nights a week, four hours a night in clubs.
That's all I knew, was playing covers and slipping in
a few little originals. And but I was like, man,
I love rock like country alidas know what I'm supposed
to do. And it was on that Loansom Jubilee to
and it just it was such a fusion of styles
unlike I've ever heard before. And I went to that
(08:49):
concert and I just remember his band was phenomenal in
Ken Hour from Dramas. He has this rock rhythm section,
but he also had acoustic guitar, and he had a
fiddle player least German. It was on fiddle and Kodian.
It was just like this incredible fusion of sounds and
styles and influences. And what I took took away from that,
I'm lucky that I got to meet you on many
(09:10):
many years later, And I said, what what I took
away from that concert, I didn't leave that constant thinking,
Oh I'm gonna be that's what I'm gonna be. John Mellencamp.
What it took away from it was like, Oh, just
take all the things you love and put them together
in your own way and make your own thing. And
that's that's what that concept did. That And I was
really important that through line would play throughout the rest
(09:32):
of your career, right up until Ripcord and this record
in terms of kind of pursuing the things you love. Um, yes,
there's there's there's a country through line there, but it's
really very much about you pursuing what you here and
what you you know, what you want to do. Yes,
when you start writing songs, I wish that started earlier.
(09:55):
I said, I wrote really crap poetry in school, little
basically like juvenile poetry, um, probably about my girlfriend and
stuff like that, really rudimentary stuff. And then I sort
of had the idea that I should try and put
some chords around it. And you know, so, I think
that was the embryo started writing for me. But I
was in a cover band in night. I wasn't the
(10:20):
lead singer. I was playing guitar and sort of a sideman.
And but we we started writing songs as a band,
and we had this big following as a cover band,
and we were trying to tell the lead singer, let's
slip in a few originals, now, let's turn the tide
of bit, you know. And every night that we would
get to the set list and was like money, money,
(10:40):
and like all these cover songs and we get to
the original. The band would be so excited. The lead
thing will be like skip that one, go down to
Freebird or something, and we're just like and so that
was the start of me going away from that. I
need to get my own band going and write my
own things. You in nine two, I think made a
(11:01):
trip to Nashville. Here's a kid from Australia. Now you
might have been to Nashville once prior, you know, but
you made the commitment to go in nine two. Were
you that had to be somewhat nerve wracking. It was exciting,
But always always wanted to live in Nashville. I mean,
(11:22):
I've grown up on the back of all my dad's albums.
It also recorded Nashville, Tennessee Record to Nashville Tennis I'm
sure if they said record in Austin, I'll be living here.
It's it's it's just that's just where everything was recorded.
So that's where I ended up. It was always the goal.
You ended up there, and and it was you know,
the the Nashville community, um, in terms of its songwriting
(11:43):
process is you know, kind of well known and well understood.
There's this tradition of of co writing and working with
others um um. You know, appointment kind of songwriting. How
did you find your way in that or did you? Oh,
it's really hard at first, because that's it's a weird
phenomena walking into a room, meeting somebody, windowless room, a
(12:05):
couple of yellow legal pads and an acoustic guitar and
a stranger and try and write a song. It's like
it didn't. It was just it didn't. It's so unnatural
for me. I've never written like that before and it
was very odd. But that's what my publishing company had
flown me over to do, and that, you know, so
(12:26):
that's what I did, drive down a music grow and
meet whoever and write whatever today. You know, that was
a struggle that went on for a little while. I
mean you kind of had to figure out what really
works for you. Yeah. Well I was also learning, because
you know, I still, no matter how long I've been
writing songs, when you get to Nashville or Austin, anywhere
(12:49):
where there's just a history of incredible songwriting, it's it's
it's you know, it's like being an actor landing in
New York on Broadway. All of a sudden, you're like, oh,
I got a lot of work to do. You know,
I could feel that. Did you have a mentor, mentors,
people who gave you kind of good advice encouragements. It's
a good question because a lot of the times I
(13:10):
find stuff going, How do you know which advice to
take on and which to discard because a lot of
its crap. A lot of the advice is actually not right.
It's just that person and their experience. I remember being
in Australia one time, having come back from America, and
I was playing some country festival and I was backstage
and I was so excited about getting back to America.
It was like just so exciting to me. And this
(13:32):
older artist said to me, yeah, you heard you, when
I have America did that thing? Uh? I said yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know, and you guys. Yeah, yeah, you gotta get
it out of your system, don't you. And I could
have punched him. I just felt so infuriated that that
way of seeing the world, of feeling about what you do,
because it was the antithesis of how I felt. You
(13:53):
wanted to explore. Um yeah, yeah, yeah, just get out
of my comfort zone and keep meeting new people and
new and which actually, you know, also becomes a through
line in your career in terms of challenging yourself and
going beyond. I think you your your your comfort level.
But in the process, you know, kind of in getting
to your first album. Um, I'm wondering, especially in the
(14:20):
early years, what's what's the strangest place you ever had
to go play? Was it was there? Was there some
like this odd ball place? Well, yeah they were, And
you play anyways, put plenty of you guys, and you
play anywhere anyway you can. And the strangest gig The
first thing I always think of was I had a
(14:40):
manager that did some shoddy deal with some airline in
Australia for free tickets. If we did a gig for
the airline, which sounds what could possibly go wrong? And
we the gig turns out to be in this little
town called Tamworth, which is the country is a capital Australia.
(15:00):
It's this big city now, but it was a little
town and more so, and it had a little airport
and I'm talking like a regional airport where there's one
baggage carousel, you know, and and one tiny little terminal
and that's it. There's nothing there. And so we get
to the terminal and they go, well, this is where
you're gonna play, and I'm thinking tonight or for what?
(15:22):
Who are we playing for? And he's like, no, no,
if you come over here, you know, in the baggage
carousel where the thing goes around and then there's like
a little raised carpeted area, that's where we played, a
one baggage harousel, and so it's narrow and thin, and
we have a three piece band, and so we set
(15:43):
up the drums with just like a tiny based drum,
little snare and high hat and that's it. And then
I had a guitar wireless guitar plugged into an amp
further over there, and the bass played the same thing,
little microphones, and we set up there in this little
in the inner line and we're playing. It was absurd
and there's nobody there, and so I sit at the
(16:03):
airport manager. I'm like, so what when do we play?
Guess we just start playing. Now it's like this one pan,
there's nobody here. He goes they'll they'll, they'll show up,
Like show up. So we start playing, and you know,
some people came over, and then some more people came
over and we're playing and we're like, this is getting
(16:23):
pretty good and we've got a decent crowd. Halfway through
the song, every backs and left. So, um, I just
got on the thing and just went for a ride,
playing guitar around. So the key to the music businesses No,
the arrival schedule. Yeah, you know the arrival schedule, Yes,
(16:45):
and read the fine print. Um, it's hard to follow
that story. You did your first record with with Matt
Rowling in record Yeah, yeah, yeah, your first first solo record.
But by the way, so you had a deal with
(17:06):
the band there, Yes, always in your mind to be
a solo artist. Well, I always had been, but I'm
a guitar player, so I've always had a band, you know,
and the idea of just picking up sort of musicians
in different places wasn't my thing. I just wanted to
So I had a band, had a five piece band
in Australia, but when I came to America, I couldn't
(17:26):
afford to bring everybody. So I thought, what's the minimum
I can perform with? And I went bass and drums,
just three piece bands. So unfortunately, the the keyboard player
and my rhythm guitar player with the too harmony singers
based point drummond and sing So I found myself in
Nashville with my three piece band and me as the
only singer of my band. And it was it was
(17:48):
purely financial reasons. It wasn't an artistic decision, but we
ended up being this three piece band for a long
long time. So working working with Matt Rowling first solo record,
and we're going to talk, you know quite a bit.
I think about the producer artist relationship because that becomes
even more interesting is your career progresses. But I'm wondering
(18:09):
early on, what did you learn in that experience from
making your first solo record about songwriting? About that you know,
that central relationship between the artist and the producer. I
went through a lot of sort of named producers when
I was trying to. It was really hard making my
first record and I and again, I've heard it from
a lot of musicians where you go into the studio
(18:30):
and it's really hard to sound like yourself in that setting.
Some it's like a whole different world, is it, because
you're you're hearing like every great song you ever you know,
you kind of ever knew, and you're trying to sound
like those artists that you idolized. And I think in
my case, it was hard to translate what I did
(18:50):
into a studio setting because I've been born in a
live setting, so everything is very live oriented. So suddenly
being in that more sterile environment was not fluid to
me at all, And particularly playing and singing with session musicians,
I could never get it to work. It wasn't their fault,
(19:11):
it just I just it just I always sounded like
I was singing karaoke, and I always seem to sing
on top of the track and not be in the tracks.
And I couldn't. I couldn't get in the music. It
was just driving me nuts. And I went from producer
to producer to producer, and it always sounded the same.
I just couldn't. I couldn't get what I wanted, So
I said to my label, can I just use my
drummer and bass player. I mean, they're the guys I
(19:33):
use all the time, and so yeah, that's what I
ended up using on the first recorded it with my band,
I just you know, used those guys. And then afterwards
I met this guy that rolling because he was a
piano He's a fantastic piano player, he's not really a producer.
I thought, I don't really need a producer. I need
a really good player who I can collaborate with and
(19:55):
we can assemble the band. Cherry picked the players and
put the studio band together, you know, so it doesn't
just like the eighteen or anything like that, And it
was likely much more about kind of playing live on
the floor, allowing you to kind of get inside the
music is. It was just a huge learning curve for me. Yeah. Yeah.
(20:15):
You hear often, you know these days, about you know,
multiple producers working, you know, in one student, everybody's got
an opinion, and when the track comes out, it's like
there's no there there because there's so many people you know,
kind of kind of on it. You as the artists
have to kind of keep that through line. Yeah, yes,
(20:38):
you know, it's it's it's you have to make sure
that you're looking out for yourself basically, yeah, and it's
it's still, I mean, I'm still it's always a balancing act,
which you know, the great adage that balance is never achieved,
is just maintained is so true and everything, and even
in record making. For me, it's that the balance for
me is in being very sure where I want to go,
(21:00):
on what I want to do and who I am,
but also being completely open to someone having an idea
that's completely different to mine but actually is better and
here and this is this always comes down to my my.
The thing I struggle with as an artist the most,
and I think it's true for many, is that when
I create something, I can only hear it for what
(21:21):
it isn't. I can't hear for what it is. I
only hear for what it isn't. I hear everything that
it isn't because in my head it's fully formed, and
so once it's out, I'm listening to everything that doesn't
match what's in here or here, and some spotting all
this stuff. And just because that's different to what's in
here doesn't mean it's not working. You know, you know,
(21:45):
ten people around you going it's fantastic, and you're like, no, no,
this is wrong. That's wrong. That's wrong, that's wrong. You know,
And there's a balance between as an artist correcting those
things because that is where you want to go, but
also knowing that no, your idea is at it, and
there's other people's contributions have actually made it much better.
And and and you were talking about being open to
(22:06):
the possibilities, which which is a really nice segue to,
you know, your last few records where you have really
kind of pushed boundaries, worked with multiple producers and artists
and songwriters, you know, to to to achieve something I
think deeper and perhaps more expansive than than your earlier
(22:30):
your earlier records. Is this now kind of part of
your playbook if you will, That that is kind of
the path in that it isn't about the one artist
producer relationship, so it's happened very organically. Yeah. You know, Um,
you were talking, we were talking back stage about the
word intuitive. Yes, and I think that's a really it's
(22:50):
a good word because I think it's more intuitive what
I do. I don't ever think it. I just just
a flow towards people that I'm interested sit in songwriters, musicians, aduces, collaborators,
and all sorts of genres. Um. I'm the manches amma
so shas am all the time? Tag songs always? What
(23:12):
is it? What is it about a song, particularly something
that you might attempt to cover? Right? What is it
about a song that attracts you? What does it have
to have? Who knows something makes you hit that tag button?
That's it's I guess it's the spirit, isn't it. Usually
Someone was talking one time about audio quality and the
importance of that, and we've got to get rid of
this MP three business because we've lost the quality in order.
(23:33):
Yuri Yoda yodiyo and the summer said, what about if
you way way back, if you can, if you have
a vehicle that has AM radio, which I have this
ninety seventy two Chevy pickup truck that has an AM radio,
it's all it's got, right, And what what is it
when the when the thing is just off the station
because you're driving right and you know you're into the song,
(23:54):
and you're driving and suddenly the station starts to drift
off and you're still hanging onto the thing. And you're
loving it. What are you loving about that? It's staticky,
it's mona, it's drifting off, you can barely hear it,
and you're totally loving it. What's what's doing that? It's
certainly not the audio quality. I'm interested in more of that,
More of that, yeah, you know, particularly you know, starting
(24:15):
with Fuse and then the last record, you know, bringing
in multiple producer you I mean, you had a great
run with Dan Huff and still work with him, um,
but bringing in other other producers and getting kind of
input from from lots of places, does that help push
you out, you know, kind of beyond your comfort zone,
(24:35):
as you know, the cliche would say, working that way
to bring other people in. Yeah, yeah, and it keeps
it fresh and vibrant, I think. And yeah, it's and
and very present case, very present. Yeah. That's the other
thing about the modern recording process. Speaking of being present,
(24:56):
now you have the ability to infinite really tweak things,
to change them, to to add to them. And at
some point, because and don't take this the wrong way,
I sense you're a bit of a studio rat in
that you could spend lots of time in the studio
and be quite happy about it. Um, do you have
(25:17):
to purposefully kind of restrain yourself at some point? Yeah,
oh yeah, there's a lot of stripping stuff away, and
then it's always going to be things that I wished
had been a bit more minimalism, and then other things
I wished had a little more coloring put into them.
That it's it's an ongoing process, and that's the thing.
(25:38):
It's just an ongoing process creating. Yeah. Well, and I
love this description about hearing that you know, you you
hear what's not there everyone, here's how great it is,
and you know, the first time you hear it for
what it is about ten years later. That's true. You know,
like if you hear a record you made or recording
that you did years and years later, just spontaneously, that's
(25:58):
the first time you usually get to hear for what
it is if you've kind of forgotten what you're trying
to do. And a lot of the times you go
that's kind of good. I like that, you know, And
and that's sometimes do you do you listen to your
rold material? Like do do you go ahead? And I
don't seek it at right right, but if if we're
putting the two together, I might go back and finds
(26:20):
execut album tracks and stuff that that might fit. Speaking
of tours, as you write songs, and it's one thing
to you know, create in the studio and you know,
make them great. Um, another thing entirely than to take
it on on stage. And I'm wondering over over over time,
especially thinking about earlier material. Do songs change And I
(26:42):
don't mean that in terms of, you know what, we
change a chord here, we you know, we do it
in a different tempo or whatever. But the meaning does it?
Does it evolve in some way for you? How so? Um?
From a metaphoric standpoint, I think the songs can become
just as relevant to me in my life. But but
for a different reason because I and back before I
(27:03):
met neck Um and got married, I was just I
sucked at relationships and and I had I just um, yeah,
I just I couldn't give myself to a relationship. And
so but I would write these songs about love and relationships.
And I remember writing a song called Somebody Like You,
(27:27):
which was on an album I did called Golden Road,
and I remember playing it for my girlfriend at the time,
and she just looked at me and said, you're a
fucking hypocrite, you know, and I I couldn't argue that, um,
And I realized that I was writing from all these
places the kind of person I wish I could be.
(27:49):
I wasn't that person, but I wanted to be so
I would right like I was, But I was only
doing it in song. In real life, it was a disaster.
And I think the thing the only thing has changed
in my life is that I've more so become that
person I was trying to be. Its writes to me.
When you're writing lyrics or music, the need to be
authentic is key to yourself because it's constant change. If
(28:13):
that's sort of or conflict confusion, that's all authentic too.
That's where you are. And farther for great songwriting, you know.
Oftentimes Yeah, yeah, some guy I was in amt Grate
to night and this guy said, you know, UM, how
do you right now with no adversity in your life?
(28:36):
I was like, well, first of all, I don't know
anybody that has no adversity. You know. It was an
interesting question because first of all, it's interesting that you
think you have to have adversity right from which I
don't agree. But also ship I mean who has an adversity.
If not as much now is back, then it's a
lifetime stuffed more from them. Well, but also you can
(29:01):
write from the place of for me personally, of gratitude
and hope and um and want you know a lot
more things. I think there's just a lot of things
to write about. I heard a terrific interview with the
great songwriter Lucinda Williams and and she too later in
(29:21):
her life, found her life partner, her husband, and they're
very happy. And somebody asked the same question, well, what
are you going to do now you know you're happy? Um?
And she responded by saying, there is a deep, deep
well of of all the experiences in my life. I
got plenty to go back to. Yeah, if you choose
(29:41):
to do yes, yes, exactly. But she just completely dismissed
the notion that you know, happiness then means you can't create. Um.
Going going back a little bit to uh recording and
studio work, you know, the sonics of of your songs
are now thoroughly you know, kind of modern in their
(30:05):
in their construction. How do you kind of stay connected
to technology, particularly in the in the studio? Are you
are always kind of chasing the next sort of coolest
thing in you know, piece of gear or whatever to
help you create or or do you ignore that everything
(30:25):
is fair game. In my world, everything is happening now.
I probably listen to new music farm more than anything else,
and more intrigued and compelled and inspired by new music,
and I and then a certain old records I'll go
back to and marvel at certain things, how things were done.
(30:48):
But this, for me, this is a really fascinating time
as a musician. And it gets into a whole broader
conversation about what qualifies the title musician these days. You know,
in the world particularly um, and I'm a big believer
that it's all just it's all still a musicianship, you know,
if you're doing it in your MacBook pro, whatever you're doing.
(31:10):
And um, if you don't play an instrument at all,
and there's plenty of guys I know who right, and
they don't play any instrument, wouldn't know what to see
is from the d wouldn't have a clue. But they
still have to compose these things like a painter putting
paint together in such a way that it makes a
compelling image. Um, that to me is as valid as
a guy sitting there playing guitar and playing drums. You know,
(31:31):
I don't discard that like sending people do. I think
that's wrong. There are elements of that that you've incorporated,
you know, into into what you do. Yeah. Yeah, I'm
sort of almost um love to collaborate people that don't
really play instruments. It's so liberating. Yeah. Yeah, we we
were talking about songwriting and working with Julia Michaels and
(31:52):
that remarkable process or whatever it is. She has that
intuition to just you know, throw things out and then disappear. Yeah. Yeah,
we've written a couple of songs on the on the
new album. The next single that's coming out is when
we did and she actually sings on it too. But yeah,
she's it's just so gifted. Yeah, and hard to describe,
(32:14):
you know exactly. Yeah's how she does what she does.
She channels. So we've spent a good deal of time
today talking about collaboration. You know, your your work with producers,
your band members, What is it? What is it about
you that makes you a good collaborator? You have to
(32:36):
ask them first of all, to want to collaborate. What
I want to find if we do something. I know
what I do, I know what you do, but I
don't know what we do. So I'm interested in that
third thing. When I worked with Ni Rogers, it was
someone I really aggressively sought after, you know, sort out,
(32:57):
because I wanted to find him and create with him,
because I've always loved his playing, I love his recognizing,
and so I I just said, I think if we
can get in a room, we can do something really,
really fun. And it was awesome collaborating with him for
that very reason, because he did what he did and
I do what I do, and we just played long
enough for this third thing to sort of emerge. That's
(33:17):
what I love that collaborating. I imagine it also has
to be about, you know, being open, especially you know
someone someone at your level two decades or more of
remarkable success. I mean I went through the numbers in
the open, you know, twenty three number one singles. That
doesn't that doesn't happen by accident, and it doesn't happen
in a year. It happens over a period of time.
(33:38):
Keeping that level, you have to, I imagine, remain open
to the possibilities. You can't get locked. And also I
I I've heard it said one time humility the definition
and humility is remaining teachable, and I think that's a
good definition for that. And I'm just curious. I'm curious
and I'm hungry, and I'm passionate about CREA and where
(34:01):
it can go and using everything that's here right now
and people and uh lengths of time and the trenches,
if you will, because everything is valid and can bring something.
I think part of the part of the remarkable nature
of your career is as you've done that, your audience
has come right along with you, some of them. You know,
(34:25):
you're not going to keep everybody because it's not it's
not everybody's thing. And I'm okay with that too. You know,
you make music and it finds people who connect with it,
and then the other people who go, I like the
record before that, I don't really care for this one.
That's okay. It's that that's all right, you know, Yeah,
(34:45):
beat that over someone's head. You must like this to say, no,
I don't have to like anything. I'll tell you what
I like. You know. It's just it's very fluid, and
in these days the interaction with your audience is much
different than it was when you start now, so that
in a big way that makes you more articulate, certainly
(35:07):
when you're when you're talking, it's right. I remember this show.
I talked to an artist once. I was extolling the
virtues of something that he did in He looked at
me and said, you know, I really don't remember the seventies. Yeah.
I remember playing a show one time, very early on
(35:27):
in my career, and this is why you'll have to
people around you that kick your ass and tell you
the truth. And came on stage and I was like,
that audience was terrible and the drumma goes. Do you
ever think it might have been you? I was like,
oh my god, why it was me? You know? And
I gotta have those people too. Yeah. But these days,
(35:49):
speaking speaking of getting feedback though, these days social media,
you know, you're you're interacting with people in a way
that you know, ten or fifteen years ago you would
not necessarily we have been have been doing. I'm wondering
what you know in terms of what you put out,
what you post, what photos or whatever are you thinking about,
(36:09):
you know, kind of what people might be interested in.
Are you curating as you go? It's a tricky time
right now with creation, with creating, because the self awareness
is very dangerous. It's a very dangerous thing because ultimately
we're critiquing while we're creating, and that's that's just death.
You can't it's a very dangerous thing. I think it
(36:31):
has to be fluid. The way I approach everything is like,
just do it. We can scrap everything after the fact,
but let's do it and not think about it too much.
And I learned a lot of that from my wife.
That's how she approaches scenes in her acting. She like,
I'll try anything, do anything, just everything is open, and
it'll be very apparent if it sucks, and we won't
(36:51):
do that anymore. But but you have to try it,
because in that thing that ended up being completely a
failed attempt, there might be one little thread it was like,
that's interesting. Follow that a little bit more. Discarded everything else,
but follow that thing that that thing was interesting, and
would I would never have discovered it if I wasn't,
you know, dare to suck basically. But this this self
(37:12):
awareness thing right now, it's very it's a very delicate balance.
Hard hard for you to kind of find your place
in that and and be kind of um appropriate well.
And also the fact that it gets so cerebral. That's
a danger too, because it's not who knows where all
this stuff comes from. It's from the heart, it's from cosmos,
I don't wherever, whatever you believe in. It's very mystical
(37:34):
and magical. It's like it's alchemy. You're making something out
of nothing and suddenly a song exists. That's that blows
my mind that that can happen, especially as a man
who can't bring a child into the world. I can
bring a song into the world. That's an amazing feeling.
I can bring something that will live on uh. And
I have a lot of reverence for that. Um anyway,
(37:56):
And then a good one was and thinking of you know,
kind of that bringing a song into the world then
presenting that song to an audience. Um, how much you're
thinking about the audience is you're preparing for a tour,
what you know, what goes what goes through? Well, I
mean for a tour a lot, I mean without damn,
it's just one long sound here. Thank god, the audience
(38:18):
shows up and and it's it's it's us where I'm
here to try and create an experience for all of
us and the audience can end up doing the same thing. Well,
it is very much about you know, we're kind of
all in this together, on this together. Yeah, it's but
it has to start with me giving energy and giving
(38:39):
everything to the audience, and if they give it back
to me, then we start the loop. And the loop
can just go and go and go and go, and
it's it's effortless for everybody. It's beautiful, but it's um
it has to flow. If it stops either here or
stops there, the thing starts to just as you're writing,
are you Are you thinking about how songs play live
as you're writing them, not as I'm writing. And there's
(39:02):
certainly there's a song on this record called Never Coming Down.
And most of how I write is from the music.
I tend the music. I tend to create the music
first and then unless it's a specific thing I want
to say. But a lot of the times the music speaks,
music says something and drive something out of me. Um.
(39:23):
There's the first song on this album is called coming Home,
and I actually use the Merl Haggard sample. UM two
sparked the song, So Meryl's he's a writer on the song,
he didn't know, probably doesn't know it, but he's a
writer on the song. And because I've wanted to use
(39:44):
a sample in a way in which it could spark
a new creation and wrote this song. But as I
didn't have an idea what the song would be about.
But when I started hearing this role in guitar intro
of Mama Tried, it was one of my favorite Haggard songs.
It made it immediately made me feel of growing up
in Australia and the I mean think at home. And
so the song had been called coming Home, but it
was all driven by the music speaking and pulling that out. Yeah,
(40:09):
but from the crowd standpoint, there's a songle Never Coming
Down on this new album which I wanted to write
a song from the perspective of someone coming to a concert.
Uh So it's from beginning to end about going to
a concert. Everything in the first, first chorus, second everything
is about going to show and being out a show,
(40:30):
switching gears. You know a little bit. You know, you
your husband, your father, you have, you know, multiple responsibilities.
You're juggling lots of different things, you know, in your life.
In addition to being a musician and an artist. How
do you how do how do you kind of stay
present and not be you know, thank you very much,
(40:54):
good night. Uh I'm not always. I mean I grew up,
you know, it's said I Just the only difference now
between who I was, said ten years ago or a
little longer than that, is I admit mistake and try
and do something to be corrected because I can, and
(41:16):
try and defend it and justify it as much as
I used to. But that's that's the only difference, because
it goes out of whack, you know, It's it's putting
a schedule together when you when you have a family,
but it's still a touring musician and a wife who
has a career working sometimes very sporadically. I mean my tour,
(41:39):
I know, my tour a year in advance. Nick might
get a film with a very short notice, and um,
suddenly we're all going to New York for two weeks
to shoot a film, which just happened recently. So I've
got this weird thing of needing to be um with
(42:00):
what I'm doing, but very very malleable in every little
space that I can be. Does it affect your your
creative process? I mean, I'm sure it does, I mean,
but it's made it very um, probably chaotic in some ways.
And actually I think that's why working with multip people
has ended up being a good thing. Because if I
work with six different people and next Tuesday suddenly I'm
(42:26):
going to be in Los Angeles for the day, there's
a handful of people I can call to say how
can we work on that song? And that person is busy,
maybe that person is available. Maybe it's so it's actually
worked out to be kind of good that. Um. We're
talking about social media and your your family life, and
there's a very you know, these days, there's a very
fine line there about what you put out and what
(42:49):
you don't. Important for you to keep that side of
your life out of your social media outreach. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think to hide and everything to protect is seat
of the mantra that Nick and I have and and
just trying to keep a normal family life as best
we can and but not not feel like you're hiding anything,
(43:13):
but you're protecting certain things and you have a right
to protect thing. So you've got a record coming out.
We talked to you know a little bit about it.
What as as you're finishing it is this a nervous
times as you're finishing a record, you know, kind of
more more, you know, more stressful to try to get
it to the finish line. It's it's whatever I let
my head tell me. It's going on at the end
(43:35):
of the day, you know, man like, because I have
a very good sponsor. And he said to Nick, do
you know how much people think of you? I said,
how much. He goes rarely. And it's a great leveler
in all things because it's so true. And so if
I found myself getting nervous or anxiety about the record,
I go, it's it's just it's not rocket science. It's
(43:56):
like we're not hearing cancer. We're just making some music.
It's all good, chill out, and then I'm and then
I'm fine. It's a stupid ego that gets you know, anxiety,
driving and all. It's just noise. It's just noise. You know.
I'm just trying to put some good in the world.
That's all I'm doing. And people do thumbs up, thumbs down, whatever.
(44:18):
It's like, you just got to put good in the world. Yeah.
And you know, now, as as you said, putting you know,
putting good in the world is that's the point you're
at now. Is that the most you know, kind of
the important thing. Yes, you want you want to you know,
make hits and and make songs as you know, as
good as they can possibly be. But it's really about
(44:40):
I think if I, if I, if I read you right,
uplift it's uplifting people. Yeah, but I I think I've
always like that. I mean, I think it was the
peacekeeping my family of origin. I was trying to keep
the peace and that's a that's a good um. That
that makes for good entertaina. I think you know, UM,
(45:02):
trying to bring everybody together, that's all. That's That's what
I've what I've loved about playing live, that that ability
to end, that opportunity to have everybody in agreement just
for two hours, because it's pretty rare, rarer than it's
ever better. And one of the things that that that
you've done, and I know this a little bit from
from personal experience. UM, you go out and play and
(45:25):
support causes that are important to you. You know, you're
you always show up. Why is that kind of involvement
for you important? When I was ten, our family's house
burned down. We were okay because I was at school
at the time and my brother was but um, we
lost everything, you know, the whole place was just aren't
(45:48):
done and and that like really hit me. And but
we were members of this country music club called Nordon
Suburbs Country Music Club that you could just join if
you loved country music. Because my parents joined up at
this club. They were the first people to put on
a fundraiser day for for us as a family. It's
it's like it's like what a church would do, you know.
(46:11):
They were like our church basically, and they put on
this to try and get us back on our feet.
I remember Goodwill giving us some clothing, Red Cross giving
us some clothing, and friends letting us stay at their
houses and just everybody chipped in. And I saw this,
this spirit in action at a young age and it's
(46:31):
always stayed with me. Well, I can certainly speak from
a personal experience with the organization, our sister organization, Music Cares,
and you've been remarkably generous and supportive. Well MAPS paid
for my first rehab, Oh my god. And so that
was it. From that day on, I'm like, I'm going
(46:52):
to give money to be this is a good cause
right here for the musicians that need recovery that can't
afford it. Right. So um, so here's here's what I know.
Thank you, thank you so much for taking the time
to have this, to have this conversation. Um um, just
terrifically wish you nothing but the best with the with
the record. Thank you, And I know you're going on
(47:14):
tour um at some point, but thanks for joining us
ladies and j Keith Urban, thank you for coming in. Everybody. Okay,
hard to believe that performance on top of a baggage carousel.
Never doubt the next time you walk into an unlikely
space and encounter live music, you might just be seeing
(47:36):
a future superstar. Check out Keat's new album Graffiti you
to get a sense of where he is creatively. And
that's your required listening for today. We've got fresh episodes
coming to you every Thursday. We'd love to hear from you.
Were on all the socials at Grammy Museum. If you're
coming to Los Angeles, I hope you'll come and see us.
(47:56):
All the info is at our website grammy museum dot org.
As always, props to the team that brings this podcast
to you every week, Jason James, Justin Joseph Jim Canella,
Lynn Sheridan, Miranda Moore, Callie Weissman, Mike Rohrbacher, Lynn Brown,
Jason Hope, Chandler May's Nick Stump, and everyone at How
Stuff Works for required listening. I'm Scott Goldman. We'll see
(48:18):
you next time.
Welcome to Required Listening. I'm your host, Scott Goldman, Executive
director of the Grammy Museum. Each week in the Climb
Davis Theater, I have the chance to speak with artists
from across the musical spectrum about their careers, their inspirations,
and their creative process. Now with Required Listening, I'm excited
to share these interviews with you. On today's episode, my
(00:25):
conversation with one of the biggest artists and country music,
Keith Urban. I interviewed Keith in front of a live
audience as part of the two thousand and eighteen South
By Southwest Music Conference in Austin, Texas. In many ways,
Keith Urban helped to rewrite the rules for country music.
His self titled debut album produced four hit singles and
(00:45):
paved the way for his successful career. He opened for
major country artists, and his subsequent albums Golden Road and
be Here produced more hits and platinum sales. Our conversation
focused on his influences and creative process. We talked about
how he learned to make your own thing from John
Mellencamp and how that try anything, do anything approach his
(01:08):
wife employees in acting has served him well. In music.
So let's go to the Austin Convention Center and listen
to my conversation with Keith Urban. Would you please welcome
Keith Urban. Thanks thanks brother keeping that Hell yeah, I Austin.
(01:33):
Well thanks for stopping by. We thank you that we
appreciate it. You know, Um, you and I were talking
just before we started, and and the one thing, and
We've had the chance to do this a couple of times, um,
to to talk about songwriting and your process. And I've
rarely run into artists who get as animated as you
do when you start talking about songwriting and the things
(01:56):
that move you in music. So enrolling the videotape way
back to to your you know, very earliest childhood. What
is it that happened then that kind of inspires this
passion from music? What? What what were you hearing when
you were growing up? Well, my father was a drummer
(02:16):
in the fifties, and his father played piano, and all
his brothers played instruments. And I got that wonderful gift
of rhythm and music at an very early age. And
my mom and death for some reason, brought me at
ukulele when I was four, and they said I could
strum in time with songs on the radio, you know.
(02:37):
And so they said a sibil I guess what you
need to learn now as chords. And somebody said six
is a good a good age for learning guitar. So
they had this little corner store that they ran. And
this woman came by called Sue McCarthy when I was
six years old, weirdly enough, and asked to put a
ad in the window to teach guitar lessons. And they said,
(02:58):
just teach our kid, we'll put your out in the window. Yeah.
And your dad had a record collection, a lot of
great country artists. Yeah that that that you heard, Yeah,
because he had because he had grown up playing music
in the fifties and then rock and roll, this new
thing called rock and roll along. He was obsessed with that.
You know. I grew up in New Zealand and played
(03:20):
in the band doing all Bill Halena comments and Elvis
and Buddy Holly and everything from the fifties. And then
so as the sixties came along and rock kind of
diverged into all kinds of things, because at the beginning
it was very rockabillions, of course, you know, and so
there was a lot of people who kind of went
different ways, and my dad went more of a folk
way in the sixties and then eventually over towards the countries.
(03:41):
That's that's how he ended up. Thing. You did have
a formative experience in seeing Johnny Cash. Yeah, very you
were young, it was. My first concert was maybe five.
I think I was about five, and my dad it's
a good days to see Johnny Cash. Let me tell you.
My brother and I my dad brought us a little
Western shirts with little boller tie, the whole thing, and
(04:04):
off we went to see Johnny Cash. And what I
remember from that concept, you know, was just how loud
the crowd wasn't it was a five thousand seat venue,
which one you're tying, he mustn't be a stadium. And
I've never been first concept ever been to. And I
remember this, the roar of everybody when this guy walked
out on stage, and it's never left me. You know,
(04:26):
that power of that when he played the guitar and sang.
It was just an extraordinary thing, that connection he made
with everybody. Well, and we were having a conversation earlier
about Willie Nelson and that life force of performance and yeah,
that term because I says, just kicking ass out of
the road. It's unbelievable and so inspiring. And as you said,
(04:50):
it's it is that life force when you get on stage.
I mean, that's I'm sure kind of what you were feeling,
even at five as Cash walks out there. And I
think it was more that recognition of this is the
thing I meant to, you know. I think I think
it was more of that. It was like, oh, there,
this is this feels familiar. So you got a guitar um.
Tell me about your early guitar heroes. Just the guy
(05:14):
that lived up the street, you know, and the guy
that played in the local band, and like all the
unknown cats who never get props. So I think more
often than not, I think the local cats influenced a
lot of guitar players. Certainly in my case, they were
unknown names that for me were like I wish I
could play as good as that guy. Which guys play
(05:35):
as good as Red Grant for you know, Dallas sell
them and always got playing cover bands you had. One
of the things I would love to do is talk
to you know, great artists and compile, you know, a
listery book of the names of their early bands. Because
(05:56):
inevitably they're fantastic. And there there was a band. I'm
not and you were in this band, but there there
was a band named Fractured Mirror, right, um um, and
you had you had something to you got a guitar
off the guy or what what was that story? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
I um, you know, I grew up playing country. That
(06:16):
was what my parents immersed me into, and it was
what I took route to. But I'm also listening to
Top forty radio and and just sort of loving everything music.
Country is just rock, every whatever was being played, and
sort of in my teenage years, got asked to join
this band called Fractured Mirror, which is basically a heavy
metal band, and they played Judas Priest and Saxon and
(06:39):
White Snake and some through some Macy d c in
there and and it's just a scorpions And I didn't
know anything about that music, and they already had a
lead singer, so I just had to play guitar. But
I had a I had a Fender Telecaster and a
cool little Fender Twin reverb. And they're like, well that's
not gonna fly. You need needed Marshall stack, you know.
(07:01):
And I can't afforded Marshall stack, but the singer had one,
and so he'd loaned me as Marshall stack and I
was in heaven. It was like plugged the strap into
this marshal and off we went. So that was that
was I was in that band for about eight seconds.
Moving moving on well because because I just also discovered
Ricky Skaggs and Ray Flack, who was the guitar guitarist Records,
(07:24):
was doing all this stuff called chicken picking, and I
was obsessed with that. And so one night when I
was playing with Fraction Mirrah at this gig, one of
b any three gigs I think we ever did, we
were playing some song by one of these heavy metal
bands and I busted out a solo instead of started
chicken picking through the Marshall stack. And the band's like,
(07:45):
what the you know? And they fired me. So that
was That was the beginning of my rolling conundry musically.
But there was there was a moment. There was a
moment in um. John Mellencamp came to Australia. You've talked
about this um in terms of seeing him, you know,
(08:06):
kind of kind of getting an understanding of a marriage,
you know, of of roots music and energy. Yeah. Well,
and even more so because of that experience of feeling
like I love a lot about country music, I love
a lot about rock music. And I've played in by
that stage. I've been playing five nights in clubs since
I was fifteen. I quick school of fifteen and was
(08:27):
playing five nights a week, four hours a night in clubs.
That's all I knew, was playing covers and slipping in
a few little originals. And but I was like, man,
I love rock like country alidas know what I'm supposed
to do. And it was on that Loansom Jubilee to
and it just it was such a fusion of styles
unlike I've ever heard before. And I went to that
(08:49):
concert and I just remember his band was phenomenal in
Ken Hour from Dramas. He has this rock rhythm section,
but he also had acoustic guitar, and he had a
fiddle player least German. It was on fiddle and Kodian.
It was just like this incredible fusion of sounds and
styles and influences. And what I took took away from that,
I'm lucky that I got to meet you on many
(09:10):
many years later, And I said, what what I took
away from that concert, I didn't leave that constant thinking,
Oh I'm gonna be that's what I'm gonna be. John Mellencamp.
What it took away from it was like, Oh, just
take all the things you love and put them together
in your own way and make your own thing. And
that's that's what that concept did. That And I was
really important that through line would play throughout the rest
(09:32):
of your career, right up until Ripcord and this record
in terms of kind of pursuing the things you love. Um, yes,
there's there's there's a country through line there, but it's
really very much about you pursuing what you here and
what you you know, what you want to do. Yes,
when you start writing songs, I wish that started earlier.
(09:55):
I said, I wrote really crap poetry in school, little
basically like juvenile poetry, um, probably about my girlfriend and
stuff like that, really rudimentary stuff. And then I sort
of had the idea that I should try and put
some chords around it. And you know, so, I think
that was the embryo started writing for me. But I
was in a cover band in night. I wasn't the
(10:20):
lead singer. I was playing guitar and sort of a sideman.
And but we we started writing songs as a band,
and we had this big following as a cover band,
and we were trying to tell the lead singer, let's
slip in a few originals, now, let's turn the tide
of bit, you know. And every night that we would
get to the set list and was like money, money,
(10:40):
and like all these cover songs and we get to
the original. The band would be so excited. The lead
thing will be like skip that one, go down to
Freebird or something, and we're just like and so that
was the start of me going away from that. I
need to get my own band going and write my
own things. You in nine two, I think made a
(11:01):
trip to Nashville. Here's a kid from Australia. Now you
might have been to Nashville once prior, you know, but
you made the commitment to go in nine two. Were
you that had to be somewhat nerve wracking. It was exciting,
But always always wanted to live in Nashville. I mean,
(11:22):
I've grown up on the back of all my dad's albums.
It also recorded Nashville, Tennessee Record to Nashville Tennis I'm
sure if they said record in Austin, I'll be living here.
It's it's it's just that's just where everything was recorded.
So that's where I ended up. It was always the goal.
You ended up there, and and it was you know,
the the Nashville community, um, in terms of its songwriting
(11:43):
process is you know, kind of well known and well understood.
There's this tradition of of co writing and working with
others um um. You know, appointment kind of songwriting. How
did you find your way in that or did you? Oh,
it's really hard at first, because that's it's a weird
phenomena walking into a room, meeting somebody, windowless room, a
(12:05):
couple of yellow legal pads and an acoustic guitar and
a stranger and try and write a song. It's like
it didn't. It was just it didn't. It's so unnatural
for me. I've never written like that before and it
was very odd. But that's what my publishing company had
flown me over to do, and that, you know, so
(12:26):
that's what I did, drive down a music grow and
meet whoever and write whatever today. You know, that was
a struggle that went on for a little while. I
mean you kind of had to figure out what really
works for you. Yeah. Well I was also learning, because
you know, I still, no matter how long I've been
writing songs, when you get to Nashville or Austin, anywhere
(12:49):
where there's just a history of incredible songwriting, it's it's
it's you know, it's like being an actor landing in
New York on Broadway. All of a sudden, you're like, oh,
I got a lot of work to do. You know,
I could feel that. Did you have a mentor, mentors,
people who gave you kind of good advice encouragements. It's
a good question because a lot of the times I
(13:10):
find stuff going, How do you know which advice to
take on and which to discard because a lot of
its crap. A lot of the advice is actually not right.
It's just that person and their experience. I remember being
in Australia one time, having come back from America, and
I was playing some country festival and I was backstage
and I was so excited about getting back to America.
It was like just so exciting to me. And this
(13:32):
older artist said to me, yeah, you heard you, when
I have America did that thing? Uh? I said yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know, and you guys. Yeah, yeah, you gotta get
it out of your system, don't you. And I could
have punched him. I just felt so infuriated that that
way of seeing the world, of feeling about what you do,
because it was the antithesis of how I felt. You
(13:53):
wanted to explore. Um yeah, yeah, yeah, just get out
of my comfort zone and keep meeting new people and
new and which actually, you know, also becomes a through
line in your career in terms of challenging yourself and
going beyond. I think you your your your comfort level.
But in the process, you know, kind of in getting
to your first album. Um, I'm wondering, especially in the
(14:20):
early years, what's what's the strangest place you ever had
to go play? Was it was there? Was there some
like this odd ball place? Well, yeah they were, And
you play anyways, put plenty of you guys, and you
play anywhere anyway you can. And the strangest gig The
first thing I always think of was I had a
(14:40):
manager that did some shoddy deal with some airline in
Australia for free tickets. If we did a gig for
the airline, which sounds what could possibly go wrong? And
we the gig turns out to be in this little
town called Tamworth, which is the country is a capital Australia.
(15:00):
It's this big city now, but it was a little
town and more so, and it had a little airport
and I'm talking like a regional airport where there's one
baggage carousel, you know, and and one tiny little terminal
and that's it. There's nothing there. And so we get
to the terminal and they go, well, this is where
you're gonna play, and I'm thinking tonight or for what?
(15:22):
Who are we playing for? And he's like, no, no,
if you come over here, you know, in the baggage
carousel where the thing goes around and then there's like
a little raised carpeted area, that's where we played, a
one baggage harousel, and so it's narrow and thin, and
we have a three piece band, and so we set
(15:43):
up the drums with just like a tiny based drum,
little snare and high hat and that's it. And then
I had a guitar wireless guitar plugged into an amp
further over there, and the bass played the same thing,
little microphones, and we set up there in this little
in the inner line and we're playing. It was absurd
and there's nobody there, and so I sit at the
(16:03):
airport manager. I'm like, so what when do we play?
Guess we just start playing. Now it's like this one pan,
there's nobody here. He goes they'll they'll, they'll show up,
Like show up. So we start playing, and you know,
some people came over, and then some more people came
over and we're playing and we're like, this is getting
(16:23):
pretty good and we've got a decent crowd. Halfway through
the song, every backs and left. So, um, I just
got on the thing and just went for a ride,
playing guitar around. So the key to the music businesses No,
the arrival schedule. Yeah, you know the arrival schedule, Yes,
(16:45):
and read the fine print. Um, it's hard to follow
that story. You did your first record with with Matt
Rowling in record Yeah, yeah, yeah, your first first solo record.
But by the way, so you had a deal with
(17:06):
the band there, Yes, always in your mind to be
a solo artist. Well, I always had been, but I'm
a guitar player, so I've always had a band, you know,
and the idea of just picking up sort of musicians
in different places wasn't my thing. I just wanted to
So I had a band, had a five piece band
in Australia, but when I came to America, I couldn't
(17:26):
afford to bring everybody. So I thought, what's the minimum
I can perform with? And I went bass and drums,
just three piece bands. So unfortunately, the the keyboard player
and my rhythm guitar player with the too harmony singers
based point drummond and sing So I found myself in
Nashville with my three piece band and me as the
only singer of my band. And it was it was
(17:48):
purely financial reasons. It wasn't an artistic decision, but we
ended up being this three piece band for a long
long time. So working working with Matt Rowling first solo record,
and we're going to talk, you know quite a bit.
I think about the producer artist relationship because that becomes
even more interesting is your career progresses. But I'm wondering
(18:09):
early on, what did you learn in that experience from
making your first solo record about songwriting? About that you know,
that central relationship between the artist and the producer. I
went through a lot of sort of named producers when
I was trying to. It was really hard making my
first record and I and again, I've heard it from
a lot of musicians where you go into the studio
(18:30):
and it's really hard to sound like yourself in that setting.
Some it's like a whole different world, is it, because
you're you're hearing like every great song you ever you know,
you kind of ever knew, and you're trying to sound
like those artists that you idolized. And I think in
my case, it was hard to translate what I did
(18:50):
into a studio setting because I've been born in a
live setting, so everything is very live oriented. So suddenly
being in that more sterile environment was not fluid to
me at all, And particularly playing and singing with session musicians,
I could never get it to work. It wasn't their fault,
(19:11):
it just I just it just I always sounded like
I was singing karaoke, and I always seem to sing
on top of the track and not be in the tracks.
And I couldn't. I couldn't get in the music. It
was just driving me nuts. And I went from producer
to producer to producer, and it always sounded the same.
I just couldn't. I couldn't get what I wanted, So
I said to my label, can I just use my
drummer and bass player. I mean, they're the guys I
(19:33):
use all the time, and so yeah, that's what I
ended up using on the first recorded it with my band,
I just you know, used those guys. And then afterwards
I met this guy that rolling because he was a
piano He's a fantastic piano player, he's not really a producer.
I thought, I don't really need a producer. I need
a really good player who I can collaborate with and
(19:55):
we can assemble the band. Cherry picked the players and
put the studio band together, you know, so it doesn't
just like the eighteen or anything like that, And it
was likely much more about kind of playing live on
the floor, allowing you to kind of get inside the
music is. It was just a huge learning curve for me. Yeah. Yeah.
(20:15):
You hear often, you know these days, about you know,
multiple producers working, you know, in one student, everybody's got
an opinion, and when the track comes out, it's like
there's no there there because there's so many people you know,
kind of kind of on it. You as the artists
have to kind of keep that through line. Yeah, yes,
(20:38):
you know, it's it's it's you have to make sure
that you're looking out for yourself basically, yeah, and it's
it's still, I mean, I'm still it's always a balancing act,
which you know, the great adage that balance is never achieved,
is just maintained is so true and everything, and even
in record making. For me, it's that the balance for
me is in being very sure where I want to go,
(21:00):
on what I want to do and who I am,
but also being completely open to someone having an idea
that's completely different to mine but actually is better and
here and this is this always comes down to my my.
The thing I struggle with as an artist the most,
and I think it's true for many, is that when
I create something, I can only hear it for what
(21:21):
it isn't. I can't hear for what it is. I
only hear for what it isn't. I hear everything that
it isn't because in my head it's fully formed, and
so once it's out, I'm listening to everything that doesn't
match what's in here or here, and some spotting all
this stuff. And just because that's different to what's in
here doesn't mean it's not working. You know, you know,
(21:45):
ten people around you going it's fantastic, and you're like, no, no,
this is wrong. That's wrong. That's wrong, that's wrong. You know,
And there's a balance between as an artist correcting those
things because that is where you want to go, but
also knowing that no, your idea is at it, and
there's other people's contributions have actually made it much better.
And and and you were talking about being open to
(22:06):
the possibilities, which which is a really nice segue to,
you know, your last few records where you have really
kind of pushed boundaries, worked with multiple producers and artists
and songwriters, you know, to to to achieve something I
think deeper and perhaps more expansive than than your earlier
(22:30):
your earlier records. Is this now kind of part of
your playbook if you will, That that is kind of
the path in that it isn't about the one artist
producer relationship, so it's happened very organically. Yeah. You know, Um,
you were talking, we were talking back stage about the
word intuitive. Yes, and I think that's a really it's
(22:50):
a good word because I think it's more intuitive what
I do. I don't ever think it. I just just
a flow towards people that I'm interested sit in songwriters, musicians, aduces, collaborators,
and all sorts of genres. Um. I'm the manches amma
so shas am all the time? Tag songs always? What
(23:12):
is it? What is it about a song, particularly something
that you might attempt to cover? Right? What is it
about a song that attracts you? What does it have
to have? Who knows something makes you hit that tag button?
That's it's I guess it's the spirit, isn't it. Usually
Someone was talking one time about audio quality and the
importance of that, and we've got to get rid of
this MP three business because we've lost the quality in order.
(23:33):
Yuri Yoda yodiyo and the summer said, what about if
you way way back, if you can, if you have
a vehicle that has AM radio, which I have this
ninety seventy two Chevy pickup truck that has an AM radio,
it's all it's got, right, And what what is it
when the when the thing is just off the station
because you're driving right and you know you're into the song,
(23:54):
and you're driving and suddenly the station starts to drift
off and you're still hanging onto the thing. And you're
loving it. What are you loving about that? It's staticky,
it's mona, it's drifting off, you can barely hear it,
and you're totally loving it. What's what's doing that? It's
certainly not the audio quality. I'm interested in more of that,
More of that, yeah, you know, particularly you know, starting
(24:15):
with Fuse and then the last record, you know, bringing
in multiple producer you I mean, you had a great
run with Dan Huff and still work with him, um,
but bringing in other other producers and getting kind of
input from from lots of places, does that help push
you out, you know, kind of beyond your comfort zone,
(24:35):
as you know, the cliche would say, working that way
to bring other people in. Yeah, yeah, and it keeps
it fresh and vibrant, I think. And yeah, it's and
and very present case, very present. Yeah. That's the other
thing about the modern recording process. Speaking of being present,
(24:56):
now you have the ability to infinite really tweak things,
to change them, to to add to them. And at
some point, because and don't take this the wrong way,
I sense you're a bit of a studio rat in
that you could spend lots of time in the studio
and be quite happy about it. Um, do you have
(25:17):
to purposefully kind of restrain yourself at some point? Yeah,
oh yeah, there's a lot of stripping stuff away, and
then it's always going to be things that I wished
had been a bit more minimalism, and then other things
I wished had a little more coloring put into them.
That it's it's an ongoing process, and that's the thing.
(25:38):
It's just an ongoing process creating. Yeah. Well, and I
love this description about hearing that you know, you you
hear what's not there everyone, here's how great it is,
and you know, the first time you hear it for
what it is about ten years later. That's true. You know,
like if you hear a record you made or recording
that you did years and years later, just spontaneously, that's
(25:58):
the first time you usually get to hear for what
it is if you've kind of forgotten what you're trying
to do. And a lot of the times you go
that's kind of good. I like that, you know, And
and that's sometimes do you do you listen to your
rold material? Like do do you go ahead? And I
don't seek it at right right, but if if we're
putting the two together, I might go back and finds
(26:20):
execut album tracks and stuff that that might fit. Speaking
of tours, as you write songs, and it's one thing
to you know, create in the studio and you know,
make them great. Um, another thing entirely than to take
it on on stage. And I'm wondering over over over time,
especially thinking about earlier material. Do songs change And I
(26:42):
don't mean that in terms of, you know what, we
change a chord here, we you know, we do it
in a different tempo or whatever. But the meaning does it?
Does it evolve in some way for you? How so? Um?
From a metaphoric standpoint, I think the songs can become
just as relevant to me in my life. But but
for a different reason because I and back before I
(27:03):
met neck Um and got married, I was just I
sucked at relationships and and I had I just um, yeah,
I just I couldn't give myself to a relationship. And
so but I would write these songs about love and relationships.
And I remember writing a song called Somebody Like You,
(27:27):
which was on an album I did called Golden Road,
and I remember playing it for my girlfriend at the time,
and she just looked at me and said, you're a
fucking hypocrite, you know, and I I couldn't argue that, um,
And I realized that I was writing from all these
places the kind of person I wish I could be.
(27:49):
I wasn't that person, but I wanted to be so
I would right like I was, But I was only
doing it in song. In real life, it was a disaster.
And I think the thing the only thing has changed
in my life is that I've more so become that
person I was trying to be. Its writes to me.
When you're writing lyrics or music, the need to be
authentic is key to yourself because it's constant change. If
(28:13):
that's sort of or conflict confusion, that's all authentic too.
That's where you are. And farther for great songwriting, you know.
Oftentimes Yeah, yeah, some guy I was in amt Grate
to night and this guy said, you know, UM, how
do you right now with no adversity in your life?
(28:36):
I was like, well, first of all, I don't know
anybody that has no adversity. You know. It was an
interesting question because first of all, it's interesting that you
think you have to have adversity right from which I
don't agree. But also ship I mean who has an adversity.
If not as much now is back, then it's a
lifetime stuffed more from them. Well, but also you can
(29:01):
write from the place of for me personally, of gratitude
and hope and um and want you know a lot
more things. I think there's just a lot of things
to write about. I heard a terrific interview with the
great songwriter Lucinda Williams and and she too later in
(29:21):
her life, found her life partner, her husband, and they're
very happy. And somebody asked the same question, well, what
are you going to do now you know you're happy? Um?
And she responded by saying, there is a deep, deep
well of of all the experiences in my life. I
got plenty to go back to. Yeah, if you choose
(29:41):
to do yes, yes, exactly. But she just completely dismissed
the notion that you know, happiness then means you can't create. Um.
Going going back a little bit to uh recording and
studio work, you know, the sonics of of your songs
are now thoroughly you know, kind of modern in their
(30:05):
in their construction. How do you kind of stay connected
to technology, particularly in the in the studio? Are you
are always kind of chasing the next sort of coolest
thing in you know, piece of gear or whatever to
help you create or or do you ignore that everything
(30:25):
is fair game. In my world, everything is happening now.
I probably listen to new music farm more than anything else,
and more intrigued and compelled and inspired by new music,
and I and then a certain old records I'll go
back to and marvel at certain things, how things were done.
(30:48):
But this, for me, this is a really fascinating time
as a musician. And it gets into a whole broader
conversation about what qualifies the title musician these days. You know,
in the world particularly um, and I'm a big believer
that it's all just it's all still a musicianship, you know,
if you're doing it in your MacBook pro, whatever you're doing.
(31:10):
And um, if you don't play an instrument at all,
and there's plenty of guys I know who right, and
they don't play any instrument, wouldn't know what to see
is from the d wouldn't have a clue. But they
still have to compose these things like a painter putting
paint together in such a way that it makes a
compelling image. Um, that to me is as valid as
a guy sitting there playing guitar and playing drums. You know,
(31:31):
I don't discard that like sending people do. I think
that's wrong. There are elements of that that you've incorporated,
you know, into into what you do. Yeah. Yeah, I'm
sort of almost um love to collaborate people that don't
really play instruments. It's so liberating. Yeah. Yeah, we we
were talking about songwriting and working with Julia Michaels and
(31:52):
that remarkable process or whatever it is. She has that
intuition to just you know, throw things out and then disappear. Yeah. Yeah,
we've written a couple of songs on the on the
new album. The next single that's coming out is when
we did and she actually sings on it too. But yeah,
she's it's just so gifted. Yeah, and hard to describe,
(32:14):
you know exactly. Yeah's how she does what she does.
She channels. So we've spent a good deal of time
today talking about collaboration. You know, your your work with producers,
your band members, What is it? What is it about
you that makes you a good collaborator? You have to
(32:36):
ask them first of all, to want to collaborate. What
I want to find if we do something. I know
what I do, I know what you do, but I
don't know what we do. So I'm interested in that
third thing. When I worked with Ni Rogers, it was
someone I really aggressively sought after, you know, sort out,
(32:57):
because I wanted to find him and create with him,
because I've always loved his playing, I love his recognizing,
and so I I just said, I think if we
can get in a room, we can do something really,
really fun. And it was awesome collaborating with him for
that very reason, because he did what he did and
I do what I do, and we just played long
enough for this third thing to sort of emerge. That's
(33:17):
what I love that collaborating. I imagine it also has
to be about, you know, being open, especially you know
someone someone at your level two decades or more of
remarkable success. I mean I went through the numbers in
the open, you know, twenty three number one singles. That
doesn't that doesn't happen by accident, and it doesn't happen
in a year. It happens over a period of time.
(33:38):
Keeping that level, you have to, I imagine, remain open
to the possibilities. You can't get locked. And also I
I I've heard it said one time humility the definition
and humility is remaining teachable, and I think that's a
good definition for that. And I'm just curious. I'm curious
and I'm hungry, and I'm passionate about CREA and where
(34:01):
it can go and using everything that's here right now
and people and uh lengths of time and the trenches,
if you will, because everything is valid and can bring something.
I think part of the part of the remarkable nature
of your career is as you've done that, your audience
has come right along with you, some of them. You know,
(34:25):
you're not going to keep everybody because it's not it's
not everybody's thing. And I'm okay with that too. You know,
you make music and it finds people who connect with it,
and then the other people who go, I like the
record before that, I don't really care for this one.
That's okay. It's that that's all right, you know, Yeah,
(34:45):
beat that over someone's head. You must like this to say, no,
I don't have to like anything. I'll tell you what
I like. You know. It's just it's very fluid, and
in these days the interaction with your audience is much
different than it was when you start now, so that
in a big way that makes you more articulate, certainly
(35:07):
when you're when you're talking, it's right. I remember this show.
I talked to an artist once. I was extolling the
virtues of something that he did in He looked at
me and said, you know, I really don't remember the seventies. Yeah.
I remember playing a show one time, very early on
(35:27):
in my career, and this is why you'll have to
people around you that kick your ass and tell you
the truth. And came on stage and I was like,
that audience was terrible and the drumma goes. Do you
ever think it might have been you? I was like,
oh my god, why it was me? You know? And
I gotta have those people too. Yeah. But these days,
(35:49):
speaking speaking of getting feedback though, these days social media,
you know, you're you're interacting with people in a way
that you know, ten or fifteen years ago you would
not necessarily we have been have been doing. I'm wondering
what you know in terms of what you put out,
what you post, what photos or whatever are you thinking about,
(36:09):
you know, kind of what people might be interested in.
Are you curating as you go? It's a tricky time
right now with creation, with creating, because the self awareness
is very dangerous. It's a very dangerous thing because ultimately
we're critiquing while we're creating, and that's that's just death.
You can't it's a very dangerous thing. I think it
(36:31):
has to be fluid. The way I approach everything is like,
just do it. We can scrap everything after the fact,
but let's do it and not think about it too much.
And I learned a lot of that from my wife.
That's how she approaches scenes in her acting. She like,
I'll try anything, do anything, just everything is open, and
it'll be very apparent if it sucks, and we won't
(36:51):
do that anymore. But but you have to try it,
because in that thing that ended up being completely a
failed attempt, there might be one little thread it was like,
that's interesting. Follow that a little bit more. Discarded everything else,
but follow that thing that that thing was interesting, and
would I would never have discovered it if I wasn't,
you know, dare to suck basically. But this this self
(37:12):
awareness thing right now, it's very it's a very delicate balance.
Hard hard for you to kind of find your place
in that and and be kind of um appropriate well.
And also the fact that it gets so cerebral. That's
a danger too, because it's not who knows where all
this stuff comes from. It's from the heart, it's from cosmos,
I don't wherever, whatever you believe in. It's very mystical
(37:34):
and magical. It's like it's alchemy. You're making something out
of nothing and suddenly a song exists. That's that blows
my mind that that can happen, especially as a man
who can't bring a child into the world. I can
bring a song into the world. That's an amazing feeling.
I can bring something that will live on uh. And
I have a lot of reverence for that. Um anyway,
(37:56):
And then a good one was and thinking of you know,
kind of that bringing a song into the world then
presenting that song to an audience. Um, how much you're
thinking about the audience is you're preparing for a tour,
what you know, what goes what goes through? Well, I
mean for a tour a lot, I mean without damn,
it's just one long sound here. Thank god, the audience
(38:18):
shows up and and it's it's it's us where I'm
here to try and create an experience for all of
us and the audience can end up doing the same thing. Well,
it is very much about you know, we're kind of
all in this together, on this together. Yeah, it's but
it has to start with me giving energy and giving
(38:39):
everything to the audience, and if they give it back
to me, then we start the loop. And the loop
can just go and go and go and go, and
it's it's effortless for everybody. It's beautiful, but it's um
it has to flow. If it stops either here or
stops there, the thing starts to just as you're writing,
are you Are you thinking about how songs play live
as you're writing them, not as I'm writing. And there's
(39:02):
certainly there's a song on this record called Never Coming Down.
And most of how I write is from the music.
I tend the music. I tend to create the music
first and then unless it's a specific thing I want
to say. But a lot of the times the music speaks,
music says something and drive something out of me. Um.
(39:23):
There's the first song on this album is called coming Home,
and I actually use the Merl Haggard sample. UM two
sparked the song, So Meryl's he's a writer on the song,
he didn't know, probably doesn't know it, but he's a
writer on the song. And because I've wanted to use
(39:44):
a sample in a way in which it could spark
a new creation and wrote this song. But as I
didn't have an idea what the song would be about.
But when I started hearing this role in guitar intro
of Mama Tried, it was one of my favorite Haggard songs.
It made it immediately made me feel of growing up
in Australia and the I mean think at home. And
so the song had been called coming Home, but it
was all driven by the music speaking and pulling that out. Yeah,
(40:09):
but from the crowd standpoint, there's a songle Never Coming
Down on this new album which I wanted to write
a song from the perspective of someone coming to a concert.
Uh So it's from beginning to end about going to
a concert. Everything in the first, first chorus, second everything
is about going to show and being out a show,
(40:30):
switching gears. You know a little bit. You know, you
your husband, your father, you have, you know, multiple responsibilities.
You're juggling lots of different things, you know, in your life.
In addition to being a musician and an artist. How
do you how do how do you kind of stay
present and not be you know, thank you very much,
(40:54):
good night. Uh I'm not always. I mean I grew up,
you know, it's said I Just the only difference now
between who I was, said ten years ago or a
little longer than that, is I admit mistake and try
and do something to be corrected because I can, and
(41:16):
try and defend it and justify it as much as
I used to. But that's that's the only difference, because
it goes out of whack, you know, It's it's putting
a schedule together when you when you have a family,
but it's still a touring musician and a wife who
has a career working sometimes very sporadically. I mean my tour,
(41:39):
I know, my tour a year in advance. Nick might
get a film with a very short notice, and um,
suddenly we're all going to New York for two weeks
to shoot a film, which just happened recently. So I've
got this weird thing of needing to be um with
(42:00):
what I'm doing, but very very malleable in every little
space that I can be. Does it affect your your
creative process? I mean, I'm sure it does, I mean,
but it's made it very um, probably chaotic in some ways.
And actually I think that's why working with multip people
has ended up being a good thing. Because if I
work with six different people and next Tuesday suddenly I'm
(42:26):
going to be in Los Angeles for the day, there's
a handful of people I can call to say how
can we work on that song? And that person is busy,
maybe that person is available. Maybe it's so it's actually
worked out to be kind of good that. Um. We're
talking about social media and your your family life, and
there's a very you know, these days, there's a very
fine line there about what you put out and what
(42:49):
you don't. Important for you to keep that side of
your life out of your social media outreach. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think to hide and everything to protect is seat
of the mantra that Nick and I have and and
just trying to keep a normal family life as best
we can and but not not feel like you're hiding anything,
(43:13):
but you're protecting certain things and you have a right
to protect thing. So you've got a record coming out.
We talked to you know a little bit about it.
What as as you're finishing it is this a nervous
times as you're finishing a record, you know, kind of
more more, you know, more stressful to try to get
it to the finish line. It's it's whatever I let
my head tell me. It's going on at the end
(43:35):
of the day, you know, man like, because I have
a very good sponsor. And he said to Nick, do
you know how much people think of you? I said,
how much. He goes rarely. And it's a great leveler
in all things because it's so true. And so if
I found myself getting nervous or anxiety about the record,
I go, it's it's just it's not rocket science. It's
(43:56):
like we're not hearing cancer. We're just making some music.
It's all good, chill out, and then I'm and then
I'm fine. It's a stupid ego that gets you know, anxiety,
driving and all. It's just noise. It's just noise. You know.
I'm just trying to put some good in the world.
That's all I'm doing. And people do thumbs up, thumbs down, whatever.
(44:18):
It's like, you just got to put good in the world. Yeah.
And you know, now, as as you said, putting you know,
putting good in the world is that's the point you're
at now. Is that the most you know, kind of
the important thing. Yes, you want you want to you know,
make hits and and make songs as you know, as
good as they can possibly be. But it's really about
(44:40):
I think if I, if I, if I read you right,
uplift it's uplifting people. Yeah, but I I think I've
always like that. I mean, I think it was the
peacekeeping my family of origin. I was trying to keep
the peace and that's a that's a good um. That
that makes for good entertaina. I think you know, UM,
(45:02):
trying to bring everybody together, that's all. That's That's what
I've what I've loved about playing live, that that ability
to end, that opportunity to have everybody in agreement just
for two hours, because it's pretty rare, rarer than it's
ever better. And one of the things that that that
you've done, and I know this a little bit from
from personal experience. UM, you go out and play and
(45:25):
support causes that are important to you. You know, you're
you always show up. Why is that kind of involvement
for you important? When I was ten, our family's house
burned down. We were okay because I was at school
at the time and my brother was but um, we
lost everything, you know, the whole place was just aren't
(45:48):
done and and that like really hit me. And but
we were members of this country music club called Nordon
Suburbs Country Music Club that you could just join if
you loved country music. Because my parents joined up at
this club. They were the first people to put on
a fundraiser day for for us as a family. It's
it's like it's like what a church would do, you know.
(46:11):
They were like our church basically, and they put on
this to try and get us back on our feet.
I remember Goodwill giving us some clothing, Red Cross giving
us some clothing, and friends letting us stay at their
houses and just everybody chipped in. And I saw this,
this spirit in action at a young age and it's
(46:31):
always stayed with me. Well, I can certainly speak from
a personal experience with the organization, our sister organization, Music Cares,
and you've been remarkably generous and supportive. Well MAPS paid
for my first rehab, Oh my god. And so that
was it. From that day on, I'm like, I'm going
(46:52):
to give money to be this is a good cause
right here for the musicians that need recovery that can't
afford it. Right. So um, so here's here's what I know.
Thank you, thank you so much for taking the time
to have this, to have this conversation. Um um, just
terrifically wish you nothing but the best with the with
the record. Thank you, And I know you're going on
(47:14):
tour um at some point, but thanks for joining us
ladies and j Keith Urban, thank you for coming in. Everybody. Okay,
hard to believe that performance on top of a baggage carousel.
Never doubt the next time you walk into an unlikely
space and encounter live music, you might just be seeing
(47:36):
a future superstar. Check out Keat's new album Graffiti you
to get a sense of where he is creatively. And
that's your required listening for today. We've got fresh episodes
coming to you every Thursday. We'd love to hear from you.
Were on all the socials at Grammy Museum. If you're
coming to Los Angeles, I hope you'll come and see us.
(47:56):
All the info is at our website grammy museum dot org.
As always, props to the team that brings this podcast
to you every week, Jason James, Justin Joseph Jim Canella,
Lynn Sheridan, Miranda Moore, Callie Weissman, Mike Rohrbacher, Lynn Brown,
Jason Hope, Chandler May's Nick Stump, and everyone at How
Stuff Works for required listening. I'm Scott Goldman. We'll see
(48:18):
you next time.
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