November 21, 2019 • 33 mins
As Benjamin Lay continued his one-man protest against the hypocrisy of slavery in the Quaker community, he inspired some folks and frustrated others (primarily the elders of his community) with his increasingly over-the-top tactics. After being kicked out of one community after another, he eventually became a hermit of sorts -- though, even then, his story wasn't done.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
(00:27):
back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you as always
for tuning in. I kind of want to do a
lost voice like previously Ridiculous History. Wait a minute, was
that you doing the lost voice, Bend oh Man. That's
our super producer Casey Pegram And this is part two
(00:49):
of our series on the heroic innovative and I would
say extraordinary abolitionist Benjamin Lay. Yeah. When we last left
our hero Um, he was starting off in his kind
of radical protest career um doing things like, uh, beating
(01:09):
people with tobacco pipes around the ankles I imagine um,
getting thrown out into the mud, uh and then just
laying there so people had to step over his muddied
body and he would not be ignored what he been.
He was pushing and preaching for the rights of enslaved
people at a time where that was absolutely not a
popular thing to do, and it got him blacklisted within
(01:31):
his own community of the Quakers. And as we're going
to see, that really escalated and we have multiple stories
of his protest. One Sunday, people living in a town
near Philadelphia, Abington, Pennsylvania, were met with a bizarre site
outside of their morning Quaker gathering. The snow was thick
(01:51):
on the ground, and Benjamin Lay, who was a member
of that congregation, was there in the snow, not very
well dressed. Yeah, this is a weird went to man.
This guy was very creative in this protests. You have
to give him that for sure, theatricality to it. He
was in something of like an ass less chaps kind
of situation, like a share or a prince might wear,
only you know, it was more like a one legged
(02:14):
trouser kind of thing. And he had a leg and
a foot exposed and uh as the as the congregants
um entered into into their place of worship, they would say, hey, Bud,
you know you're gonna freeze the death out here. You're
gonna get real sick. Better cover that leg. And he
would turn to them and say, ah, you pretend compassion
for me, but you do not feel for the poor
(02:35):
slaves in your fields who go all winter half clad.
So he's calling these people out and not letting them
be comfortable in there. You know, again, I've I've used
the word too often in this episode, but their rank hypocrisy.
He also protested slave owners, giving them no peace. As
soon as somebody in the Quaker community who owned slaves
(02:56):
stood up to talk at the meeting at the at
the religious gathering, he would jump to his feet and
he would cry out, you know, there's another slave master.
I'm paraphrasing because not comfortable with the language. Now he's
using some strong language there, but it's I think it's
more meant to just be I think it was just
more of a term that was generally you know, used
in those days, for sure. But he is calling them
(03:19):
out and saying, there you are, I see you. You
don't get to talk because you have no compassion for
for your fellow man. It all comes back to that.
And yeah, he he kept getting oustad. He was not
a popular figure after, you know, causing all this ruckets
at these meetings, and the elders, the church elders and
the ministers as well, um started to get pretty peeved.
(03:43):
I mean actually appointed like a like a cop a
constable to a constable constable constable area, Yeah, to keep
an eye out for him. I mean he you know,
he was really making a making a splash. They had
to hire a position just to keep him out of
the meeting and they toss him out into the cold
night or afternoon or morning, whatever it may have been.
(04:06):
Whatever he showed up, who am I to say? Um?
And yeah he was. They would bar the door and
he was not allowed to return. And one time when
he was thrown out of a meeting house and it
was raining, he went right back to the door of
the meeting house and laid down in the mud, so
everybody who left the meeting had to step over his
body while he stared at them. He's like something of
(04:27):
like a combination performance artists and and uh and abolitionist protester.
I really liked this guy his performance art for a
good cause as opposed to just like naval gazing kind
of Okay, Sorry, there's any performance art fans out there,
I just don't get it. I'm a fan of it.
I like the weird stuff, you know, also a fan
(04:48):
of improv everywhere he would have I think he would
have enjoyed that too. More of a flash mob guy myself.
Get I'm kidding. I do like Matthew Barney. That's performance
art some of it kind of right, what does he
do again? And I did the whole cream Masters cycle
where he kind of like dressed up and that's a weird.
Like you know, we'd kind of like guy in a
pink kilt and climbed all over the Googgenheim. But it's
(05:09):
it's made. It's done for film. I guess it's the
only performance already if it's done, like I r L
like with real people. Yeah, Okay, he's a performance artist.
I like Matthew Barney. Something really weird that I got
into that has nothing to do with this episode. I'm
just gonna show this to you please. Okay. This is
a kind of dancing called bouteau or bu t o
(05:31):
h that is uh creepy and from Japan. Okay, I'm
gonna try to describe it as best I can with
the listeners. Okay, there's a gentleman looks that he like
he has some sort of wedgy situation going on. He's
wearing a cod piece. Uh, he's painted gray. He's hairless
and bald and staggering around. Oh oh, he's kind of
(05:51):
creatively falling. I love this. It looks like a tool video,
um really does. Oh now he's rolling down the stairs.
The underwear he's appears to be something of a thong.
I was correct about the wedge, none of them seeing
the back and now he's he's he's getting up slowly
and then falling down again like an angry, awkward, evil baby.
I dig this, ben Yeah, Okay, I take back everything
(06:12):
I said about not liking performance. Well, maybe maybe we
just have to find the right performance. This stuff is creepy,
there's a there's a whole thing with it. Maybe, uh huh,
maybe suitable for a different show. But yes, Benjamin, a
performance are alright really quickly? Is there a history to
this or is this like a new thing? There's a history.
We gotta do a show about this. Okay, let's do
a show about performance art throughout history. That feels like
(06:35):
it could be its own podcast. Maybe good, let's give
it a shot. Let's give it this bike some like
really pivotal moment, and maybe we'll like spin it off.
We'll spin off and do a whole another show. Yeah, Casey,
are you cool with that? You've got plenty of time right,
all the time in the world. Oh man, thanks, will
you help us do this performance art show? Yeah? I'm
a fan of Matthew Barney as well, so that's a
good starting point. Good stuff. Yeah, when one last thing, casey,
(06:57):
if you've got time while we're while we're rolling, if
you to get kind of creeped out, check out this
Bouteau dancing while we're recording. B U t O H cool.
I'm gonna do it all right. What do you hear?
What you think about? At the end there there will
not be a quiz because I don't know enough about it,
but performance art. Back to Benjamin Leigh. He uh, he
keeps going right, man, he has his shining moment coming
(07:18):
up in seventeen thirty eight. Oh dude, he keeps doubling
down something referred to as the berry Juice Massacre of
seventeen thirty eight. I love that it's so visual. Uh.
September seventeen thirty eight, to be precise, it was six
years after um he had come to America for the
first time. He just waltzed his way into one of
(07:40):
these Quaker meetings in New Jersey in a town called Burlington,
which was a big meeting. It was one of the
biggest events of the year, which is kind of weird
because it was it was the Philadelphia yearly Meeting of Quakers,
but it was in New Jersey for some reason. I
mean a lot of stuff happens in New Jersey's true,
and it stays in New Jersey hopefully. Um. Yeah. He
wore a big coat with like a military kind of
(08:02):
style decor um, and he had a sword, and underneath
it he had a book with a secret compartment in
which he had uh, an animal bladder that was filled
with with the red juice of something called a poke berry.
You ever had a pokeberry, ben I don't believe. Is
it like a razzleberry, pomegranate perhaps? Uh? You know, I
(08:27):
don't know what a pokeberry is, grapish, raspberry ish? If
you've had a pokeberry right in, let us know, actually
send us some recipes to well. The most important thing
for our purposes and Benjamin Lay's purposes, is that it
produced a bright, uh staining juice that he had stored
(08:48):
secreted away inside this animal bladder, hidden in this cut
out like sort of like you think of, you know,
prison contraband being hidden inside like a holidaut bible or
something like that. Right, yeah, exactly. I guess he wasn't
banned from this particular meeting yet, that he hadn't gotten
to Burlington yet, because he would have been you know,
pretty noticeable people would have recognized him despite being disguised
(09:11):
as a soldier and silly at least, Yeah, because of
his unique posture too. So the way the Quaker meetings
work is that there's no formal minister church ceremony. People
speak as the spirit moves them, and so Lay waits
his turn to speak. And when he finally rises to
address this gathering of influential moving and shaking Quakers shaking, Yeah,
(09:35):
that works out. He freaks them out because he announces.
He yells at the crowd. He said, God Almighty respects
all people, equally, rich, poor men, women, white, black alike.
Slave Keeping is the greatest sin in the world. How
can you profess the Golden rule? How can people who
(09:56):
say treat others the way you wish to be treated?
How can you, of all people, keep slaves? He then
throws off his coat. This is like a Quentin Tarantino nude.
He's got a military guard. Yeah, that's right. Uh, And
he does have he's got this sword with him, and
he's got this book. And then people are starting to
think something might be weird. And he has this he
(10:18):
has this, uh, he has this speech. Right. Uh, could
you could you give us a reading of at least
that line or that titular moment. Oh boy, whatever, this
is like a yeah, you're right, this is like a
Tarantino asked, like, you know, bust a cap kind of moment.
Thus shall God shed the blood of those persons who
enslave their fellow creatures. And with that he uh raised
(10:41):
the book aloft and stabbed it, ran it through with
his sword, um and the the oozy pokeberry fluids dripped
down his arm. People thought that he had stabbed himself.
I assume, I guess, so yeah. And then he threw
this poke berry blood on the slave keepers, and he said,
(11:03):
all Quakers who failed to heed the prophets call will
expect physical, moral, and spiritual death. People go bananas, man,
this is not what they were This is not what
they signed up for, you know what I mean? And
now they don't know if the guys actually bleeding, they're
covered in blood. This is very much you know, there's
(11:23):
a protest. It's a little theatrical. It works, though it's
no secret all that. I don't know about you, but
I feel like it's very apparent to you in case
you both that a lot of times when I come
into recording episode. I'm hungry and I always want to
just sort of relate whatever we're talking about to food. Yeah,
it's true. I always you always look a little peaking,
(11:44):
you know, like I feel like you're you're picturing me
as though I were a delicious roasted chicken, which, to
be fair, is is the shape that I resemble. Ah,
that's that's uh, that's unfair, but a delicious idea. And
while we're talking about delicious, let's talk about Hello Fresh.
You and I recently tried some Hello Fresh. We did,
(12:04):
and there is a good reason why it is America's
number one meal kit, my friends, because they offer seasonal,
easy recipes and pre measured ingredients delivered right to your door.
And all you and I had to do, Ben was
cook and enjoy, and we did both of those things.
That's true. That's true. And you'll never get tired of
the menus you are sent because Hello Fresh has twenty
(12:25):
plus seasonal, chef curated recipes every single week. Yeah, I
means something for everyone. I chose the family style recipes
that gave you bigger portions, or you can go calorie
smart and even vegetarian and fun menu series like Hall
of fame and Kraft Burgers. And I'll tell you what man,
I was a big fan of the pork m Pablano tacos,
(12:47):
my favorite of the three, with the Kiwi salsa with
the vine ripe tomatoes, and I believe there was a
nice onion and cilantro situation in there was delicious. I'd
never thought of putting kiwi uh in a salsa before.
It's really opened up a whole new world for me,
salsa wise. But you don't have to take our word
for it. Get this, folks, just for hanging out with
us on Ridiculous History. You can get nine meals with
(13:11):
Hello Fresh for free by going to Hello Fresh dot
com slash ridiculous nine the number nine. Yeah, that's nine
meals for free with Hello Fresh when you go to
Hello Fresh dot com slash ridiculous and the number nine
and using the code ridiculous nine. That's Hello Fresh dot
com slash ridiculous nine. After he's done this, after he
(13:36):
yells at the crowd and has that uh that that
climactic moment, he just sort of shuts down and he
stands there. He doesn't say anything, goes. People surround him
and they haul him off from the building. He doesn't resist.
He feels like what's done is done. He did what
he came to do, and his life. Uh that's the thing.
(14:02):
You know, if this were a biopic or if this
were a fictionalized tale based on true events, we could
say that that climactic moment led to happily ever after.
But unfortunately we're not quite there yet, because during this
age of his protest, and before his titular protests, and
(14:24):
after he encountered a lot of hardship in his life, right,
there was not a real happily ever after moment, you know,
and it may well have spurred him on to you know,
really double down on these protests and try to get
his plant across. His beloved wife, Sarah passed away in
five and the causes were unknown, and they had been
together for seventeen years at that point, and you know,
(14:46):
you could argue that that this gave him time, uh
to really reflect and to really consider you know, the
legacy um that he wanted to leave behind would have
also been a carrying on of his wife's wishes, you know,
because they were kind of a team on this stuff.
And uh, he spent several years working on a manuscript
(15:09):
of what would become the treatise called All Slave Keepers
That Keep the Innocent in Bondage apost dates. Uh. And
it's a little bit strange, like in terms of structure,
in terms of the type, is hard to pegs as
what type of book it is exactly because it's some
combinations of like almost like biblical ranting, kind of polemic prophecies,
(15:33):
you know. Uh, It had curated pieces by other writers.
It had some kind of firsthand accounts of what he
witnessed in Barbados, though done with kind of almost a
stylized dreamlike quality, I guess you could say. And then
a part of it was also his autobiography, but really
forward thinking even in literature, like the way you know,
(15:54):
he would have been very out there to to to
stray away from a traditional a memoir or like treatise
in that way, right, Yeah, fragmentary differences in format internally
and so on. He knew that the Quakers would never
approve of this book, the Board of Overseers rather, and
(16:15):
he went directly to his friends. Uh, you know him,
you love him, if you'll listen to ridiculous history. The
Benjamin bond runs deep because he went to Benjamin Franklin,
who at the time was um, I don't know, not
ignoring the resurrection men in his abode in England. He
was in the US, and he said, yeah, sure, I'll
(16:38):
publish this. This becomes one of the founding key text
of the antislavery movement in the Atlantic, and it's seen
as an important groundbreaking step in abolitionist thought. It is
the most militant stand against slavery published up to that point.
Because I don't want to, like, you know, overstate the obvious,
but I think it can't be overstated really how important
(17:01):
printed word was in like changing hearts and minds. Like
you can throw you know, sticky fake blood on people
all day long and you're probably ultimately just gonna piss
them off. But when you really start laying your ideas
out in a way that lots of people can understand
and get their hands on, that's when ideas really start
to spread. So he he really did put his money
where his mouth was and take it to the next level, uh,
(17:22):
in terms of you know, getting this idea out there.
And he was absolutely revolutionary in that way because no
one else was kind of thinking quite like he was,
or at the very least not going public correct opinions.
So what's fascinating about this is that he comes along.
He's a magnificent individual who comes along at the perfect
time because there's a generational struggle between Quakers over the
(17:49):
specific issue of owning slaves and then still saying you
obey the dictates or the teachings of the Quaker belief system.
So by the seven teen thirties, Quaker attitudes toward what
has been called at times the peculiar institution towards the
owning of human beings has begun to change, and lay
(18:10):
says repeatedly he's not saying abolish the Quaker religion or anything.
He's fighting against these hypocrites. And his most determined enemies
are elders of the organization who are also very wealthy,
by the way, and others are ministers. He had fighting
words for them, such as time for such old, rusty
candlesticks to be moved out of their place. Wait a minute,
(18:33):
old people being stuck in their ways and not wanting
to move into the future. Rights. It's a crazy talk.
It was a weird time, and so it's a weird
time now, it really is. But yeah, I mean, just
like they didn't like it when he was, you know,
disrupting their meetings. They didn't like it when he took
that talk to the streets and to the people. They
really didn't like it because they considered him just a
(18:54):
real uh troublemaker and uh did not like what he
was putting down with the help of of our boy
Benjamin Franklin. So they disowned him. They essentially, I mean,
I guess it's not called that in Quicker religion, but
for all intents and purposes, excommunicated him from his faith,
which he which he loved. And you know, again, if
you read more about Quakerism, all of these things make sense,
(19:16):
like in terms of that they would be anti slavery.
So it's just a lot of the tenants and the
belief systems within Quakerism. It's all about being interconnected and
being as one within the universe and you know, loving
your your neighbor as yourself, like you said, been the
golden rule. That to me is always the biggest sticking
point when you're like, how can you say that, that
you believe that and still hate people? You know, yeah, yeah,
(19:40):
And that's that's the thing. He was right the whole time.
But people didn't want to hear the unpleasant truth. Despite
being disowned, he would still go to worship services and
argue against the evils of slavery. But he became increasingly
hermited away, and he started to live of a life
(20:01):
that might sound a little bit hippie to some of
us and a little bit idyllic to others. He built
his own home in Abington, that town we mentioned near Philadelphia,
near us water Spring. He made a cottage in a cave.
He lied the entrance with stone. He had a library
(20:22):
inside his his cave home. He planted apple, peach, and
walnut orchards. He tended a b colony. He grew, you know,
he had a garden with potatoes, squash, radishes, melons. He
almost became a vegan, except for the honey. I think
that's even to this day a contentious subject within veganism.
Do I remember? Am I wrong? Is it is exclusively
(20:44):
no no go for vegans? Well, uh, none of the
three of us are vegans. But we've done I've heard
it as I've heard it generate great debate too, because
they're saying, well, are you still vegan if you eat
any animal product under any circumstances, you know what I mean.
But then again, I think there's some B twelve supplements
that some people have to take when they are practicing veganism,
(21:07):
and those supplements may contain insect parts. That's a good yeah,
that's a good question, um, But it's true. So essentially,
he was let's just say he was a vegan intens
and purposes, uh, two hundred years before anyone even thought
of that as being a thing, let alone like a
fashionable thing. He says that he sees the presence of
(21:35):
God and all living things, so he can't eat flesh
because animals are God's creatures just as he is. He
makes his own clothes to avoid the exploitation of the
labor of others, and he boycott's everything produced by slave labor.
He lives pretty well until about seventeen fifty seven. He's
elderly at this point, he's seventy five, right, Yeah, he's
(21:57):
sort of in his twilight years. He's just you know,
spends his days tending his garden and making his own
fabric and just kind of keeping himself busy. But then
one day a visitor comes in knocking on his his
little cave door. Yes, a group of Quaker reformers had
(22:18):
recently undertaken a purification campaign. They called for a return
to simpler ways of living, stricter discipline in the church,
and a gradual end to slavery. All of this meant
to appease God, they imagined, was quite angry. Ley was
told that the Philadelphia Yearly Meeting, after a lot of
(22:40):
back and forth in Hemming and Hoying, had started a
process to discipline and eventually disown Quakers who traded slaves. Unfortunately,
slaveholding itself was still going to be around for another
eighteen years in the community. But this was the first big, substantive,
concrete step toward abolition. And how did Late take the news.
(23:01):
It's a little hard to say. Initially, the reports um
that we've read in the Smithsonian magazine article about the
Quaker comment indicate that he kind of hush fell over him, um,
and he took some time to really think about it,
because he was obviously a really thoughtful, kind reflective individual.
(23:21):
And he's also like, you know, getting up there in
years at this point. And then um, he gets up.
He was sitting in a chair at the time, and
uh assumes this pose of of devotional reverence, according to
this piece, and then speaks and says thanksgiving and praise
be rendered unto the Lord God. I can now die
(23:43):
in peace. And then he instantly died. I'm kidding, that's
not true. Well, I mean, he definitely took a turn
for the worst. Right. This is such a weird moment
to the way it's written, because it sounds like he
says thanksgiving him praise be rendered unto the Lord God,
and then he just stand there for a while, and
then he says, I can now die in peace. We
(24:05):
don't know today exactly what led to his demise, but
we know he asked to be taken to the home
of his old friend Joshua Morris and Abington as his
health deteriorated, and he passed away there on February three,
seventeen fifty nine, at the age of seventy seven. History
has vindicated Benjamin Lay. Like most Quakers in his day
(24:31):
and age, he opposed the idea of carrying distinctions of
class into the afterlife. So he's buried in an unmarked
grave near his wife in the Quaker burial ground in
the town of Abington. And I don't know then you
made the point of history, he kind of vindicated him.
I mean, I think, you know, all it took to
vindicate him was just realizing how on the right side
(24:54):
of history he was from the start. And I think
for him it was meaningful that his people kind vindicated him.
But like he never faltered and never really questioned his mission. Uh,
And I think that's pretty pretty inspiring. Um, And especially
in this day and age where it seems like people
are willing to flip and abandon their morals just you know,
on the drop of a hat. Um. So it's pretty
(25:17):
pretty cool figure. And uh, not to mention um this
idea that he's kind of a bit of a footnote
in the history of abolitionism until pretty recently. Yeah, he
was re embraced finally by the Quakers after almost three
hundred years had passed. The four groups linked to the
(25:38):
original people who disowned events communicated him from the Society
of Friends, the Abington Monthly Meeting, the Philadelphia Yearly Meeting,
the North London Monthly Meeting, and the Friends of the
Southern East Anglia Meeting released a joint statement recognizing the
integrity and courage of a man who called slaveholders, including Quakers,
to account who protested the domination of slavery, upheld the
(26:01):
equality of the sexes, and lived his life with integrity
according to his Quaker beliefs. In this statement, go to
the end and says, we hold that Benjamin Lay was
a friend of the truth. We are in unity with
the spirit of Benjamin Lay as apologies go where his
acknowledgements go. That's pretty heavy. It's a pretty good one.
I would say, yeah, I think, I think, I think
(26:22):
it did did the job. And you know, and again
even the historical record in terms of his influence on abolition,
we're starting to see him kind of you know emerge, uh,
you know, at least with people that follow history um
as more you know, noted figure. His biographer, Benjamin Rush,
who was an abolitionist himself and actually one of the
signers of the Declaration of Independence, was his first biographer,
(26:45):
by the way, referred to him as a Christian philosopher
and said that at least in Pennsylvania at the time,
Leigh was a household name. But as time went on
he started to appear less and less in these histories,
in these discussions. Uh. And it was kind of um
treated as sort of a kuk you know, and I
(27:06):
could see how that could be, you know, kind of
shoehorned to the narrative considering some of the stunts that
he pulled. Uh. And but but yeah, it started to
kind of pick up steam or at least um in
the record, and he was looked at as as having
suffered some sort of head injury. Um. And this image
of him as sort of a unreliable figure and sort
of more of a crank um really kind of held up. Yeah,
(27:29):
it's absolutely true, and perhaps we end the story on
this note. According to Benjamin Rush, you know, Lay was
known to everyone in Pennsylvania. His portrait was in a
lot of homes throughout Philadelphia, and he burned incredibly bright.
And he shows us that one person can make a difference.
(27:51):
And despite the fact that he has been excluded from
so many abolitionist narratives, as they say in this Atlas
Obscure Art goal that we've referenced earlier, that we can
finally give the title of as as Natasha Frost says
inner article, the eighteenth century Quaker dwarf who challenge slavery,
meat eating, and racism. He refuses to be extinguished from history. Yeah,
(28:13):
and I maybe uh, mistakenly started to set it up
as though he really did get his due historically, and
I think again, within people that really are familiar and
want to do the work, Uh, you can find out
about this guy. There are some resources you know about him,
but he still largely isn't seen as like a central figure.
Um although as we know through his book and disseminating
(28:36):
his ideas really did seem to turn the tide at
least within the Quaker community, by the way, which holds
um these tenants as the most important facets of their faith.
And I think he is a steadfast example of all
of these simplicity, peace, integrity, community, equality, and sustainability. Agreed.
(28:57):
So this concludes our episode, but not our show. No question,
no quester, no quister. That's what I say to myself.
I feel like it's kind of like saying no wammy's
before what it's a whammy? I don't know. I just
was that bankrupts is that when you go bankrupt and
Wheel of Fortune? It's it's from a game show. It's
Wheel of Fortune. They say, no wammy's on Wheel of Fortune?
(29:20):
Do they must be bankrupt? I think it's from a
thing called press your Luck. You're right, no press your luck. Indeed,
I feel I feel like we just I feel like
the freeze no Wammy's has become has grown beyond press
your luck. I think you're right. Then, well, no Wammy's,
no quisters. Uh So before we go, Casey he groom,
(29:42):
want to check in with you real quick. Did you
did you get a chance to look at some of
that bizarre dancing? Yeah? My my YouTube recommendations will never
be the same again. But it's great stuff. I was
looking at. Yeah, I was looking at a bunch of them,
and it started to remind me of the seri these
of films. I'm familiar with this Taiwanese filmmaker Siming Leong
(30:05):
who made a film called a Journey to the West
where a monk walks as slowly as possible through crowded
public spaces. And I googled that along with Bhuto and
found a text saying that one influenced the other. So, yeah,
just the idea of walking very, very slowly, almost so
(30:25):
that you know, to the casual observer you appear still,
and then if you look long enough you see that
there is movement happening. But yeah, it looks like some
really interesting stuff that's so weird. I'm glad you guys
enjoyed it and don't think it's incredibly creepy. I'm a
fan of the incredibly creepy and weird. Likewise likewise, Uh
(30:46):
so this concludes our episode, but not our show. No,
you know, we like to keep the conversation going after
the audio has stopped rolling. Where can people find us? Oh,
they can find us in the usual spots on the
social media's are a Ridiculous history or is there a
Ridiculous History Show? And I think we're pridiculous? Is it? Yeah?
The website. We have a website called Ridiculous History Show
(31:06):
where you can also get some weird T shirt. Is
it a dot com, dot biz, dot gov? It's a
dot com okay, the old school dot Yeah. You can
find our Facebook group, Ridiculous Historians on on the Facebook
where you just have to answer a very simple question,
which is either naming myself or Ben's uh name, and
then you are in like Flynn Babies and uh we
(31:28):
precipated all kinds of conversations and memory and fun historical
musings in that space pretty regularly. And it's it's a
good group of folks, So come check out ridiculous Historians
on Facebook. If you don't want to do any of that,
and you want to just hit me and Ben up individually,
because we are our own people, you can do so.
I am on Instagram at how Now Noel Brown exclusively.
I don't really do the Twitter and more of a
(31:49):
more of a lurker. I got hypnotized by this weird
performance are But you can still find me online on
Twitter where I'm Ben Bulling h s W. Or you
can find me getting into various words of shenanigans on Instagram,
where I am going by very creative handle at Ben Bowling.
At least she locked it down, buddy. Is there is
there a Noel Brown already? No? I don't know. Maybe
(32:12):
I just thought you like the name that you got.
I do like the name. Yeah, I went for I
went for that immediately. Big thanks to super producer Casey
Pegram Alex Williams, who composed our theme. Christopher hasciotis here
in spirit. Jonathan's Strickland a k a. The Quister not
here in spirit. He's more of a demonic cloud that
sort of lurks over the proceedings, and big big thanks
(32:33):
of course, to Gabe Louisier, to Benjamin Ley, to Eve's
Jeff Coache and to Matthew Now, the guy who just
went on ridiculous historians and amended the score. I believe
that we are ten to eight now in favor of Twister. Still,
(32:55):
we'll see you next time. For more podcasts from my
Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows,
Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
(00:27):
back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you as always
for tuning in. I kind of want to do a
lost voice like previously Ridiculous History. Wait a minute, was
that you doing the lost voice, Bend oh Man. That's
our super producer Casey Pegram And this is part two
(00:49):
of our series on the heroic innovative and I would
say extraordinary abolitionist Benjamin Lay. Yeah. When we last left
our hero Um, he was starting off in his kind
of radical protest career um doing things like, uh, beating
(01:09):
people with tobacco pipes around the ankles I imagine um,
getting thrown out into the mud, uh and then just
laying there so people had to step over his muddied
body and he would not be ignored what he been.
He was pushing and preaching for the rights of enslaved
people at a time where that was absolutely not a
popular thing to do, and it got him blacklisted within
(01:31):
his own community of the Quakers. And as we're going
to see, that really escalated and we have multiple stories
of his protest. One Sunday, people living in a town
near Philadelphia, Abington, Pennsylvania, were met with a bizarre site
outside of their morning Quaker gathering. The snow was thick
(01:51):
on the ground, and Benjamin Lay, who was a member
of that congregation, was there in the snow, not very
well dressed. Yeah, this is a weird went to man.
This guy was very creative in this protests. You have
to give him that for sure, theatricality to it. He
was in something of like an ass less chaps kind
of situation, like a share or a prince might wear,
only you know, it was more like a one legged
(02:14):
trouser kind of thing. And he had a leg and
a foot exposed and uh as the as the congregants
um entered into into their place of worship, they would say, hey, Bud,
you know you're gonna freeze the death out here. You're
gonna get real sick. Better cover that leg. And he
would turn to them and say, ah, you pretend compassion
for me, but you do not feel for the poor
(02:35):
slaves in your fields who go all winter half clad.
So he's calling these people out and not letting them
be comfortable in there. You know, again, I've I've used
the word too often in this episode, but their rank hypocrisy.
He also protested slave owners, giving them no peace. As
soon as somebody in the Quaker community who owned slaves
(02:56):
stood up to talk at the meeting at the at
the religious gathering, he would jump to his feet and
he would cry out, you know, there's another slave master.
I'm paraphrasing because not comfortable with the language. Now he's
using some strong language there, but it's I think it's
more meant to just be I think it was just
more of a term that was generally you know, used
in those days, for sure. But he is calling them
(03:19):
out and saying, there you are, I see you. You
don't get to talk because you have no compassion for
for your fellow man. It all comes back to that.
And yeah, he he kept getting oustad. He was not
a popular figure after, you know, causing all this ruckets
at these meetings, and the elders, the church elders and
the ministers as well, um started to get pretty peeved.
(03:43):
I mean actually appointed like a like a cop a
constable to a constable constable constable area, Yeah, to keep
an eye out for him. I mean he you know,
he was really making a making a splash. They had
to hire a position just to keep him out of
the meeting and they toss him out into the cold
night or afternoon or morning, whatever it may have been.
(04:06):
Whatever he showed up, who am I to say? Um?
And yeah he was. They would bar the door and
he was not allowed to return. And one time when
he was thrown out of a meeting house and it
was raining, he went right back to the door of
the meeting house and laid down in the mud, so
everybody who left the meeting had to step over his
body while he stared at them. He's like something of
(04:27):
like a combination performance artists and and uh and abolitionist protester.
I really liked this guy his performance art for a
good cause as opposed to just like naval gazing kind
of Okay, Sorry, there's any performance art fans out there,
I just don't get it. I'm a fan of it.
I like the weird stuff, you know, also a fan
(04:48):
of improv everywhere he would have I think he would
have enjoyed that too. More of a flash mob guy myself.
Get I'm kidding. I do like Matthew Barney. That's performance
art some of it kind of right, what does he
do again? And I did the whole cream Masters cycle
where he kind of like dressed up and that's a weird.
Like you know, we'd kind of like guy in a
pink kilt and climbed all over the Googgenheim. But it's
(05:09):
it's made. It's done for film. I guess it's the
only performance already if it's done, like I r L
like with real people. Yeah, Okay, he's a performance artist.
I like Matthew Barney. Something really weird that I got
into that has nothing to do with this episode. I'm
just gonna show this to you please. Okay. This is
a kind of dancing called bouteau or bu t o
(05:31):
h that is uh creepy and from Japan. Okay, I'm
gonna try to describe it as best I can with
the listeners. Okay, there's a gentleman looks that he like
he has some sort of wedgy situation going on. He's
wearing a cod piece. Uh, he's painted gray. He's hairless
and bald and staggering around. Oh oh, he's kind of
(05:51):
creatively falling. I love this. It looks like a tool video,
um really does. Oh now he's rolling down the stairs.
The underwear he's appears to be something of a thong.
I was correct about the wedge, none of them seeing
the back and now he's he's he's getting up slowly
and then falling down again like an angry, awkward, evil baby.
I dig this, ben Yeah, Okay, I take back everything
(06:12):
I said about not liking performance. Well, maybe maybe we
just have to find the right performance. This stuff is creepy,
there's a there's a whole thing with it. Maybe, uh huh,
maybe suitable for a different show. But yes, Benjamin, a
performance are alright really quickly? Is there a history to
this or is this like a new thing? There's a history.
We gotta do a show about this. Okay, let's do
a show about performance art throughout history. That feels like
(06:35):
it could be its own podcast. Maybe good, let's give
it a shot. Let's give it this bike some like
really pivotal moment, and maybe we'll like spin it off.
We'll spin off and do a whole another show. Yeah, Casey,
are you cool with that? You've got plenty of time right,
all the time in the world. Oh man, thanks, will
you help us do this performance art show? Yeah? I'm
a fan of Matthew Barney as well, so that's a
good starting point. Good stuff. Yeah, when one last thing, casey,
(06:57):
if you've got time while we're while we're rolling, if
you to get kind of creeped out, check out this
Bouteau dancing while we're recording. B U t O H cool.
I'm gonna do it all right. What do you hear?
What you think about? At the end there there will
not be a quiz because I don't know enough about it,
but performance art. Back to Benjamin Leigh. He uh, he
keeps going right, man, he has his shining moment coming
(07:18):
up in seventeen thirty eight. Oh dude, he keeps doubling
down something referred to as the berry Juice Massacre of
seventeen thirty eight. I love that it's so visual. Uh.
September seventeen thirty eight, to be precise, it was six
years after um he had come to America for the
first time. He just waltzed his way into one of
(07:40):
these Quaker meetings in New Jersey in a town called Burlington,
which was a big meeting. It was one of the
biggest events of the year, which is kind of weird
because it was it was the Philadelphia yearly Meeting of Quakers,
but it was in New Jersey for some reason. I
mean a lot of stuff happens in New Jersey's true,
and it stays in New Jersey hopefully. Um. Yeah. He
wore a big coat with like a military kind of
(08:02):
style decor um, and he had a sword, and underneath
it he had a book with a secret compartment in
which he had uh, an animal bladder that was filled
with with the red juice of something called a poke berry.
You ever had a pokeberry, ben I don't believe. Is
it like a razzleberry, pomegranate perhaps? Uh? You know, I
(08:27):
don't know what a pokeberry is, grapish, raspberry ish? If
you've had a pokeberry right in, let us know, actually
send us some recipes to well. The most important thing
for our purposes and Benjamin Lay's purposes, is that it
produced a bright, uh staining juice that he had stored
(08:48):
secreted away inside this animal bladder, hidden in this cut
out like sort of like you think of, you know,
prison contraband being hidden inside like a holidaut bible or
something like that. Right, yeah, exactly. I guess he wasn't
banned from this particular meeting yet, that he hadn't gotten
to Burlington yet, because he would have been you know,
pretty noticeable people would have recognized him despite being disguised
(09:11):
as a soldier and silly at least, Yeah, because of
his unique posture too. So the way the Quaker meetings
work is that there's no formal minister church ceremony. People
speak as the spirit moves them, and so Lay waits
his turn to speak. And when he finally rises to
address this gathering of influential moving and shaking Quakers shaking, Yeah,
(09:35):
that works out. He freaks them out because he announces.
He yells at the crowd. He said, God Almighty respects
all people, equally, rich, poor men, women, white, black alike.
Slave Keeping is the greatest sin in the world. How
can you profess the Golden rule? How can people who
(09:56):
say treat others the way you wish to be treated?
How can you, of all people, keep slaves? He then
throws off his coat. This is like a Quentin Tarantino nude.
He's got a military guard. Yeah, that's right. Uh, And
he does have he's got this sword with him, and
he's got this book. And then people are starting to
think something might be weird. And he has this he
(10:18):
has this, uh, he has this speech. Right. Uh, could
you could you give us a reading of at least
that line or that titular moment. Oh boy, whatever, this
is like a yeah, you're right, this is like a
Tarantino asked, like, you know, bust a cap kind of moment.
Thus shall God shed the blood of those persons who
enslave their fellow creatures. And with that he uh raised
(10:41):
the book aloft and stabbed it, ran it through with
his sword, um and the the oozy pokeberry fluids dripped
down his arm. People thought that he had stabbed himself.
I assume, I guess, so yeah. And then he threw
this poke berry blood on the slave keepers, and he said,
(11:03):
all Quakers who failed to heed the prophets call will
expect physical, moral, and spiritual death. People go bananas, man,
this is not what they were This is not what
they signed up for, you know what I mean? And
now they don't know if the guys actually bleeding, they're
covered in blood. This is very much you know, there's
(11:23):
a protest. It's a little theatrical. It works, though it's
no secret all that. I don't know about you, but
I feel like it's very apparent to you in case
you both that a lot of times when I come
into recording episode. I'm hungry and I always want to
just sort of relate whatever we're talking about to food. Yeah,
it's true. I always you always look a little peaking,
(11:44):
you know, like I feel like you're you're picturing me
as though I were a delicious roasted chicken, which, to
be fair, is is the shape that I resemble. Ah,
that's that's uh, that's unfair, but a delicious idea. And
while we're talking about delicious, let's talk about Hello Fresh.
You and I recently tried some Hello Fresh. We did,
(12:04):
and there is a good reason why it is America's
number one meal kit, my friends, because they offer seasonal,
easy recipes and pre measured ingredients delivered right to your door.
And all you and I had to do, Ben was
cook and enjoy, and we did both of those things.
That's true. That's true. And you'll never get tired of
the menus you are sent because Hello Fresh has twenty
(12:25):
plus seasonal, chef curated recipes every single week. Yeah, I
means something for everyone. I chose the family style recipes
that gave you bigger portions, or you can go calorie
smart and even vegetarian and fun menu series like Hall
of fame and Kraft Burgers. And I'll tell you what man,
I was a big fan of the pork m Pablano tacos,
(12:47):
my favorite of the three, with the Kiwi salsa with
the vine ripe tomatoes, and I believe there was a
nice onion and cilantro situation in there was delicious. I'd
never thought of putting kiwi uh in a salsa before.
It's really opened up a whole new world for me,
salsa wise. But you don't have to take our word
for it. Get this, folks, just for hanging out with
us on Ridiculous History. You can get nine meals with
(13:11):
Hello Fresh for free by going to Hello Fresh dot
com slash ridiculous nine the number nine. Yeah, that's nine
meals for free with Hello Fresh when you go to
Hello Fresh dot com slash ridiculous and the number nine
and using the code ridiculous nine. That's Hello Fresh dot
com slash ridiculous nine. After he's done this, after he
(13:36):
yells at the crowd and has that uh that that
climactic moment, he just sort of shuts down and he
stands there. He doesn't say anything, goes. People surround him
and they haul him off from the building. He doesn't resist.
He feels like what's done is done. He did what
he came to do, and his life. Uh that's the thing.
(14:02):
You know, if this were a biopic or if this
were a fictionalized tale based on true events, we could
say that that climactic moment led to happily ever after.
But unfortunately we're not quite there yet, because during this
age of his protest, and before his titular protests, and
(14:24):
after he encountered a lot of hardship in his life, right,
there was not a real happily ever after moment, you know,
and it may well have spurred him on to you know,
really double down on these protests and try to get
his plant across. His beloved wife, Sarah passed away in
five and the causes were unknown, and they had been
together for seventeen years at that point, and you know,
(14:46):
you could argue that that this gave him time, uh
to really reflect and to really consider you know, the
legacy um that he wanted to leave behind would have
also been a carrying on of his wife's wishes, you know,
because they were kind of a team on this stuff.
And uh, he spent several years working on a manuscript
(15:09):
of what would become the treatise called All Slave Keepers
That Keep the Innocent in Bondage apost dates. Uh. And
it's a little bit strange, like in terms of structure,
in terms of the type, is hard to pegs as
what type of book it is exactly because it's some
combinations of like almost like biblical ranting, kind of polemic prophecies,
(15:33):
you know. Uh, It had curated pieces by other writers.
It had some kind of firsthand accounts of what he
witnessed in Barbados, though done with kind of almost a
stylized dreamlike quality, I guess you could say. And then
a part of it was also his autobiography, but really
forward thinking even in literature, like the way you know,
(15:54):
he would have been very out there to to to
stray away from a traditional a memoir or like treatise
in that way, right, Yeah, fragmentary differences in format internally
and so on. He knew that the Quakers would never
approve of this book, the Board of Overseers rather, and
(16:15):
he went directly to his friends. Uh, you know him,
you love him, if you'll listen to ridiculous history. The
Benjamin bond runs deep because he went to Benjamin Franklin,
who at the time was um, I don't know, not
ignoring the resurrection men in his abode in England. He
was in the US, and he said, yeah, sure, I'll
(16:38):
publish this. This becomes one of the founding key text
of the antislavery movement in the Atlantic, and it's seen
as an important groundbreaking step in abolitionist thought. It is
the most militant stand against slavery published up to that point.
Because I don't want to, like, you know, overstate the obvious,
but I think it can't be overstated really how important
(17:01):
printed word was in like changing hearts and minds. Like
you can throw you know, sticky fake blood on people
all day long and you're probably ultimately just gonna piss
them off. But when you really start laying your ideas
out in a way that lots of people can understand
and get their hands on, that's when ideas really start
to spread. So he he really did put his money
where his mouth was and take it to the next level, uh,
(17:22):
in terms of you know, getting this idea out there.
And he was absolutely revolutionary in that way because no
one else was kind of thinking quite like he was,
or at the very least not going public correct opinions.
So what's fascinating about this is that he comes along.
He's a magnificent individual who comes along at the perfect
time because there's a generational struggle between Quakers over the
(17:49):
specific issue of owning slaves and then still saying you
obey the dictates or the teachings of the Quaker belief system.
So by the seven teen thirties, Quaker attitudes toward what
has been called at times the peculiar institution towards the
owning of human beings has begun to change, and lay
(18:10):
says repeatedly he's not saying abolish the Quaker religion or anything.
He's fighting against these hypocrites. And his most determined enemies
are elders of the organization who are also very wealthy,
by the way, and others are ministers. He had fighting
words for them, such as time for such old, rusty
candlesticks to be moved out of their place. Wait a minute,
(18:33):
old people being stuck in their ways and not wanting
to move into the future. Rights. It's a crazy talk.
It was a weird time, and so it's a weird
time now, it really is. But yeah, I mean, just
like they didn't like it when he was, you know,
disrupting their meetings. They didn't like it when he took
that talk to the streets and to the people. They
really didn't like it because they considered him just a
(18:54):
real uh troublemaker and uh did not like what he
was putting down with the help of of our boy
Benjamin Franklin. So they disowned him. They essentially, I mean,
I guess it's not called that in Quicker religion, but
for all intents and purposes, excommunicated him from his faith,
which he which he loved. And you know, again, if
you read more about Quakerism, all of these things make sense,
(19:16):
like in terms of that they would be anti slavery.
So it's just a lot of the tenants and the
belief systems within Quakerism. It's all about being interconnected and
being as one within the universe and you know, loving
your your neighbor as yourself, like you said, been the
golden rule. That to me is always the biggest sticking
point when you're like, how can you say that, that
you believe that and still hate people? You know, yeah, yeah,
(19:40):
And that's that's the thing. He was right the whole time.
But people didn't want to hear the unpleasant truth. Despite
being disowned, he would still go to worship services and
argue against the evils of slavery. But he became increasingly
hermited away, and he started to live of a life
(20:01):
that might sound a little bit hippie to some of
us and a little bit idyllic to others. He built
his own home in Abington, that town we mentioned near Philadelphia,
near us water Spring. He made a cottage in a cave.
He lied the entrance with stone. He had a library
(20:22):
inside his his cave home. He planted apple, peach, and
walnut orchards. He tended a b colony. He grew, you know,
he had a garden with potatoes, squash, radishes, melons. He
almost became a vegan, except for the honey. I think
that's even to this day a contentious subject within veganism.
Do I remember? Am I wrong? Is it is exclusively
(20:44):
no no go for vegans? Well, uh, none of the
three of us are vegans. But we've done I've heard
it as I've heard it generate great debate too, because
they're saying, well, are you still vegan if you eat
any animal product under any circumstances, you know what I mean.
But then again, I think there's some B twelve supplements
that some people have to take when they are practicing veganism,
(21:07):
and those supplements may contain insect parts. That's a good yeah,
that's a good question, um, But it's true. So essentially,
he was let's just say he was a vegan intens
and purposes, uh, two hundred years before anyone even thought
of that as being a thing, let alone like a
fashionable thing. He says that he sees the presence of
(21:35):
God and all living things, so he can't eat flesh
because animals are God's creatures just as he is. He
makes his own clothes to avoid the exploitation of the
labor of others, and he boycott's everything produced by slave labor.
He lives pretty well until about seventeen fifty seven. He's
elderly at this point, he's seventy five, right, Yeah, he's
(21:57):
sort of in his twilight years. He's just you know,
spends his days tending his garden and making his own
fabric and just kind of keeping himself busy. But then
one day a visitor comes in knocking on his his
little cave door. Yes, a group of Quaker reformers had
(22:18):
recently undertaken a purification campaign. They called for a return
to simpler ways of living, stricter discipline in the church,
and a gradual end to slavery. All of this meant
to appease God, they imagined, was quite angry. Ley was
told that the Philadelphia Yearly Meeting, after a lot of
(22:40):
back and forth in Hemming and Hoying, had started a
process to discipline and eventually disown Quakers who traded slaves. Unfortunately,
slaveholding itself was still going to be around for another
eighteen years in the community. But this was the first big, substantive,
concrete step toward abolition. And how did Late take the news.
(23:01):
It's a little hard to say. Initially, the reports um
that we've read in the Smithsonian magazine article about the
Quaker comment indicate that he kind of hush fell over him, um,
and he took some time to really think about it,
because he was obviously a really thoughtful, kind reflective individual.
(23:21):
And he's also like, you know, getting up there in
years at this point. And then um, he gets up.
He was sitting in a chair at the time, and
uh assumes this pose of of devotional reverence, according to
this piece, and then speaks and says thanksgiving and praise
be rendered unto the Lord God. I can now die
(23:43):
in peace. And then he instantly died. I'm kidding, that's
not true. Well, I mean, he definitely took a turn
for the worst. Right. This is such a weird moment
to the way it's written, because it sounds like he
says thanksgiving him praise be rendered unto the Lord God,
and then he just stand there for a while, and
then he says, I can now die in peace. We
(24:05):
don't know today exactly what led to his demise, but
we know he asked to be taken to the home
of his old friend Joshua Morris and Abington as his
health deteriorated, and he passed away there on February three,
seventeen fifty nine, at the age of seventy seven. History
has vindicated Benjamin Lay. Like most Quakers in his day
(24:31):
and age, he opposed the idea of carrying distinctions of
class into the afterlife. So he's buried in an unmarked
grave near his wife in the Quaker burial ground in
the town of Abington. And I don't know then you
made the point of history, he kind of vindicated him.
I mean, I think, you know, all it took to
vindicate him was just realizing how on the right side
(24:54):
of history he was from the start. And I think
for him it was meaningful that his people kind vindicated him.
But like he never faltered and never really questioned his mission. Uh,
And I think that's pretty pretty inspiring. Um, And especially
in this day and age where it seems like people
are willing to flip and abandon their morals just you know,
on the drop of a hat. Um. So it's pretty
(25:17):
pretty cool figure. And uh, not to mention um this
idea that he's kind of a bit of a footnote
in the history of abolitionism until pretty recently. Yeah, he
was re embraced finally by the Quakers after almost three
hundred years had passed. The four groups linked to the
(25:38):
original people who disowned events communicated him from the Society
of Friends, the Abington Monthly Meeting, the Philadelphia Yearly Meeting,
the North London Monthly Meeting, and the Friends of the
Southern East Anglia Meeting released a joint statement recognizing the
integrity and courage of a man who called slaveholders, including Quakers,
to account who protested the domination of slavery, upheld the
(26:01):
equality of the sexes, and lived his life with integrity
according to his Quaker beliefs. In this statement, go to
the end and says, we hold that Benjamin Lay was
a friend of the truth. We are in unity with
the spirit of Benjamin Lay as apologies go where his
acknowledgements go. That's pretty heavy. It's a pretty good one.
I would say, yeah, I think, I think, I think
(26:22):
it did did the job. And you know, and again
even the historical record in terms of his influence on abolition,
we're starting to see him kind of you know emerge, uh,
you know, at least with people that follow history um
as more you know, noted figure. His biographer, Benjamin Rush,
who was an abolitionist himself and actually one of the
signers of the Declaration of Independence, was his first biographer,
(26:45):
by the way, referred to him as a Christian philosopher
and said that at least in Pennsylvania at the time,
Leigh was a household name. But as time went on
he started to appear less and less in these histories,
in these discussions. Uh. And it was kind of um
treated as sort of a kuk you know, and I
(27:06):
could see how that could be, you know, kind of
shoehorned to the narrative considering some of the stunts that
he pulled. Uh. And but but yeah, it started to
kind of pick up steam or at least um in
the record, and he was looked at as as having
suffered some sort of head injury. Um. And this image
of him as sort of a unreliable figure and sort
of more of a crank um really kind of held up. Yeah,
(27:29):
it's absolutely true, and perhaps we end the story on
this note. According to Benjamin Rush, you know, Lay was
known to everyone in Pennsylvania. His portrait was in a
lot of homes throughout Philadelphia, and he burned incredibly bright.
And he shows us that one person can make a difference.
(27:51):
And despite the fact that he has been excluded from
so many abolitionist narratives, as they say in this Atlas
Obscure Art goal that we've referenced earlier, that we can
finally give the title of as as Natasha Frost says
inner article, the eighteenth century Quaker dwarf who challenge slavery,
meat eating, and racism. He refuses to be extinguished from history. Yeah,
(28:13):
and I maybe uh, mistakenly started to set it up
as though he really did get his due historically, and
I think again, within people that really are familiar and
want to do the work, Uh, you can find out
about this guy. There are some resources you know about him,
but he still largely isn't seen as like a central figure.
Um although as we know through his book and disseminating
(28:36):
his ideas really did seem to turn the tide at
least within the Quaker community, by the way, which holds
um these tenants as the most important facets of their faith.
And I think he is a steadfast example of all
of these simplicity, peace, integrity, community, equality, and sustainability. Agreed.
(28:57):
So this concludes our episode, but not our show. No question,
no quester, no quister. That's what I say to myself.
I feel like it's kind of like saying no wammy's
before what it's a whammy? I don't know. I just
was that bankrupts is that when you go bankrupt and
Wheel of Fortune? It's it's from a game show. It's
Wheel of Fortune. They say, no wammy's on Wheel of Fortune?
(29:20):
Do they must be bankrupt? I think it's from a
thing called press your Luck. You're right, no press your luck. Indeed,
I feel I feel like we just I feel like
the freeze no Wammy's has become has grown beyond press
your luck. I think you're right. Then, well, no Wammy's,
no quisters. Uh So before we go, Casey he groom,
(29:42):
want to check in with you real quick. Did you
did you get a chance to look at some of
that bizarre dancing? Yeah? My my YouTube recommendations will never
be the same again. But it's great stuff. I was
looking at. Yeah, I was looking at a bunch of them,
and it started to remind me of the seri these
of films. I'm familiar with this Taiwanese filmmaker Siming Leong
(30:05):
who made a film called a Journey to the West
where a monk walks as slowly as possible through crowded
public spaces. And I googled that along with Bhuto and
found a text saying that one influenced the other. So, yeah,
just the idea of walking very, very slowly, almost so
(30:25):
that you know, to the casual observer you appear still,
and then if you look long enough you see that
there is movement happening. But yeah, it looks like some
really interesting stuff that's so weird. I'm glad you guys
enjoyed it and don't think it's incredibly creepy. I'm a
fan of the incredibly creepy and weird. Likewise likewise, Uh
(30:46):
so this concludes our episode, but not our show. No,
you know, we like to keep the conversation going after
the audio has stopped rolling. Where can people find us? Oh,
they can find us in the usual spots on the
social media's are a Ridiculous history or is there a
Ridiculous History Show? And I think we're pridiculous? Is it? Yeah?
The website. We have a website called Ridiculous History Show
(31:06):
where you can also get some weird T shirt. Is
it a dot com, dot biz, dot gov? It's a
dot com okay, the old school dot Yeah. You can
find our Facebook group, Ridiculous Historians on on the Facebook
where you just have to answer a very simple question,
which is either naming myself or Ben's uh name, and
then you are in like Flynn Babies and uh we
(31:28):
precipated all kinds of conversations and memory and fun historical
musings in that space pretty regularly. And it's it's a
good group of folks, So come check out ridiculous Historians
on Facebook. If you don't want to do any of that,
and you want to just hit me and Ben up individually,
because we are our own people, you can do so.
I am on Instagram at how Now Noel Brown exclusively.
I don't really do the Twitter and more of a
(31:49):
more of a lurker. I got hypnotized by this weird
performance are But you can still find me online on
Twitter where I'm Ben Bulling h s W. Or you
can find me getting into various words of shenanigans on Instagram,
where I am going by very creative handle at Ben Bowling.
At least she locked it down, buddy. Is there is
there a Noel Brown already? No? I don't know. Maybe
(32:12):
I just thought you like the name that you got.
I do like the name. Yeah, I went for I
went for that immediately. Big thanks to super producer Casey
Pegram Alex Williams, who composed our theme. Christopher hasciotis here
in spirit. Jonathan's Strickland a k a. The Quister not
here in spirit. He's more of a demonic cloud that
sort of lurks over the proceedings, and big big thanks
(32:33):
of course, to Gabe Louisier, to Benjamin Ley, to Eve's
Jeff Coache and to Matthew Now, the guy who just
went on ridiculous historians and amended the score. I believe
that we are ten to eight now in favor of Twister. Still,
(32:55):
we'll see you next time. For more podcasts from my
Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows,
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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