November 11, 2025 • 31 mins
Land! Historically speaking, it's a pretty popular thing. In fact, a great deal of human conflict is based upon fighting over real estate -- yet, as Ben, Noel and Max discover in today's episode, in at least one case there's a piece of the world no nation wants. For well over a century, Egypt and Sudan have both been fighting over who controls Bir Tawil... and both of them want the other country to own it.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our super producer,
Max the monopoly Man William.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I was thinking of something like that, Max the Landlord. Yea,
the Landlord's Games.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
The original, the original version of Monopoly was called The
Landlord's Game, and it's a it's a warning, a clarion call,
and a parable about the dangers of unfettered capitalism. Spoiler.
That's part of why Monopoly as it stands now is broken.
It's a broken game and it breaks a lot of
(01:03):
families over the holidays. You're mister Noel Brown. Yes, kren Bollin,
I am from earlier and nol. This is going to
be a fun win for us because we discussed it
a little bit in an episode of our sister show Stuff.
They don't want you to know. Maybe the best way
to get into it is to talk about real estate.
(01:25):
It's always been kind of a hot, sometimes touchy commodity.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
It's real estate.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
They ain't making any more land, right or maybe we'll
say a TBD on that. So yeah, with billions of
people across this planet of ours. Real estate has always
been that thing hot and sometimes.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Touchy, as you said, commodity.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
However, on a local level we start to see the
prices of housing and rent playing huge roles in a
particular or community's success and or failure.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, and then if we scope out to a regional level,
we will see that states and nations, pretty much since
civilization began have always been constantly fighting over who gets
to own certain things, often with bloody results.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Yeah, min ys am, I.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Right, shotgun, either as in calling dibbs or using firearms.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
So to threaten people to stay off my land.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Right, And for the most part, people aren't building new
land technically, there are endeavors out in East Asia and
in the Middle East to make new islands or to
expand existing land.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
What about terraforming Mars? How are we doing on that?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Still in the drawing board phase? Yeah, but outside of
a few places like Antarctica, which has been dedicated to
pure scientific research due to the ant Arctic a Treaty's And.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Also it ain't good for much else given the inhospitable climbs.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Right, it's great for building snowmen, but or accidentally becoming
a snowman if you're outside too long. But outside of
places like Antarctica or the Moon, maybe Mars, to your point,
it seems like every other place on Earth is kind
of owned by someone.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, it's a real estate land whatever is what they
might call at a premium places like New York City,
where everything is even more.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Scarce in terms of literal space.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
You start seeing things just getting stacked on top of
each other, you know, up as far as allowable limits
might dictate.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
What are those called air rights?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, air rights up into airspace? How far can you go?
How much? How much of the air past the top
of your building.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Do you own? Can you own the air? Can you
own the wind? Can you own a I would love.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
To be able to of the wind? Some people do
own songs, which will be a fun episode for us
to explore in the future.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Colors of the Wind. It could be reinterpreted as a
song about synaesthesia.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
There it is, and I love it. I'm here for
it as a sena state. So, as we're going to
see in today's episode, it turns out, despite this huge
land grabs that's been going on for all of human
ridiculous history, there are some parts of planet Earth that
literally nobody wants. One of our favorites is a little
(04:29):
place called beer how will.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
If you might pull up a map of Africa or
the African continent, and perchance zoom in on the border
between Sudan and Egypt, you might notice a little something odd,
a postage stamp sized seven nine ninety five square mile
piece of land sandwiched betwixt those two countries. Egypt says
(04:53):
it belongs to Sudan, Sudan says it belongs to Eai.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Wait anut wouldn't usually be the other way around, right?
What about the mine of it all? That's right?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
What about the mind of it all?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
No?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Whatever does yours?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I love betwixt as well. So both countries make maps
to this day claiming the other country owns this little
spot of lands.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Take it, please, please take it.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
And they keep trying to just push their own versions
of the truth and get the United Nations to accept it.
Our friends over at the Guardian can tell you how
to get to beerta will spelled. It's two different words,
bi r space tawil. Spoiler, folks, it is super inconvenient
(05:35):
to get over to this place.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Let's go take some doing.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
According to The Guardian, to get there, you have two choices,
they say. The first is to fly to the Sudanese
capital Khartoum, charter a jeep and follow the Shindy Road
hundreds of miles up to Abu Ahmed, which is a
settlement that dates back to the ancient kingdom.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Of Kush, which I love the name of that kingdom.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, reasons fun to say. But also is that it's
a we'd thing right, Yes, it's a.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Cannabis term today. The Guardian continues, this settlement Abuhamad, serves
as the region's final permanent human outposts before you reach
the vast waste of the Nubian desert. It is twice
the size of mainland Britain. It's almost completely barren. The
(06:23):
second option they mentioned is to approach from Egypt, which
means you have to go to the southernmost city, Aswan.
You have to somehow find your way down through the
inhospitable expanse between Lake Nasser to the west and the
Red Sea to the east. This is going to be
a tougher option because the Egyptian Army considers this a
(06:44):
restricted zone, so you got to get a lot of
paperwork before you go blessed eb shot at Yes, blessed
eb shotgun to pollen. And once you arrive, here's the thing, folks,
if you make it to actual beerta will you are
going to be unimpressed.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
It is deserted unless you're into barren, uninhabited places with
no signs of human life or activity. That's because beer
to Wheel is exactly that thing. There are no traces
of permanent inhabitants, no roads and on need roads. It's
not governed by any law. The land cover is sand
(07:23):
and several mountains are the only features to speak of.
It is a real life no man's land or terra
nullius and nullius. And Ben also makes me think of
something we talked about on stuff they don't want you
to know about some places where a lot of these
like phone bank scams take place, and they're these like
(07:44):
sort of off the books, lawless regions in the jungle
where these kinds of operations are able to you know,
sort of go unnoticed by any international authority or even
national authority.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I mean where that was Ben, we'd.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Be thinking specifically, Yeah, me and mar there in Southeast Asia.
Check out the work by our colleague Denise Chan on
the scam industry. There scam factory excellent, and a lot
of those folks are working there against their will. Always remember,
even if a scammer is calling you, they might be
(08:24):
forced to do so. Also, I love the point about
whether or not you will find bertel Will impressive. Fellow
ridiculous historians. I fondly recall one of the first times
I saw the desert ecosystem of the United States, and
it struck me that if a god exists, this must
be the place where that god got into abstract art.
(08:48):
So if you like abstract art, you might like bertel Will,
but you will be hard pressed to find a decent.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Root beer flo uh yeah, or maybe even like potable water.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
You know.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
The land terranilius.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
By the way, the term we were talking about a
moment ago is a Latin phrase meaning land belonging to
no one, and describes a territory or territories that aren't
claimed or recognized by any state or sovereign authority. In
the international law community, this is a concept that's often
been used to justify occupation of said land because no
(09:22):
one called dibbs this land, being not under any formal
government control, even when there might be a handful of
settlers there.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, there are people who have been living there for
untold millenniash. This goes back to the days of colonialism
where you could just plant a flag and say shotgun.
You know this is now France somehow. Yeah right, they.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Called dibbs.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Right, and border disputes going back to your earlier point,
they're all too common in ancient and modern history. But
usually those disputes, overwhelmingly, those disputes arise from two or
more nations all wanting to own the same piece of property.
This is the opposite of that. For more, it's so weird.
(10:15):
For more than a century, both Egypt and Sudan have
looked at this desolate stretch of abstract art desert and
said no, no, no, seriously, no you take it. No, no, no, no, no,
you guys take it.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
And I mean you might be thinking to yourself, like,
why wouldn't even do that? It seems like, you know,
empires have always been built on like acquiring and conquering,
and you know, planting that flag it must have something
to do with it not being a particularly worthwhile strategic anything.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
It has everything to do with that, And you nailed it.
So how did we get here? The quick origin story
to understand this truly ridiculous, mad cap situation, we got
a traveled back to the British occupation of Egypt in
eighteen eighty two. So ostensibly they made a short term solution.
(11:16):
They wanted to protect British monetary interests, the Empire's interest
in the country of Egypt, and they also wanted to
control local trade. They were super pissed at the Ottoman
Empire at this time, so they wanted to fu's with
the Ottoman Empire, and they wanted to strengthen their control
(11:37):
or influence on the Suez Canal. This seizure of land
kickstarted what we call the Scramble of African If you
fast forward to eighteen ninety nine, you run into a
very fancily and confusingly named thing, the Anglo Egyptian Condominium Agreement.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah, what's that about? The Egyptian condominiums as like a timeshare.
This is what set the border between these two countries
at the twenty second parallel during the era of peak colonialism.
The Brits were essentially making an executive decision about this
without particularly consulting anybody else, specifically the locals. The first
(12:23):
attempt to redraw those boundaries followed a similar pattern to
how European powers might have drawn up the rest or
sliced up, carved up the rest of Africa, using straight
lines with very little consideration for geographical features cultural divides,
you know, between the different regions, or going along with that,
(12:43):
ethnic differences, as we know in this part of the
world can vary widely in a very small distance across
very small.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Absolutely, yeah, because cultural boundaries can often be distinct from
geographical boundaries. And I love that point. Somebody looked at
the map, we don't have to get into it. If
someone looked at the map, thought of the parallels and
just took a line and a ruler and went ship yep,
chippy choppy, chippy choppy, tiketiboo, tally ho. They in a
(13:16):
rare backstep or backpedal for the Empire. Just a few
years later, in nineteen o two, the United Kingdom drew
a separate, different boundary for administrative purposes. This is where
the map starts to go wrong. Now at this time,
still Egypt and Suddan are not really independent. They are
(13:39):
vassal states or vassal regions of the British Empire. So officially,
our friends the Brits hope that these new boundaries can
reflect the land based on what you were saying, No,
the use by locals in the area. Right, So if
these folks consider themselves Egyptian, why don't we call it
(14:00):
this part Egyptian territory. But unofficially, see, that was what
they sold to the PC masses. Unofficially they had a
race for resource extraction and control, and they kind of
they made this deal go through by softly implying in
back rooms that this was a temporary solution. It was
(14:22):
a band aid. We're just keeping we just keeping things
stable until the more permanent solution can be found.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Keep calm and move on, motherfuckers. Right, chin up, and
thanks for the beep there, Thanks for the beep, their macks.
This was not the truth.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
They were making a long term play to carve up
and further control the area. So the new boundary in
nineteen oh two puts this tiny little as you said,
postage stamp beer to will as part of Egypt. And
the reason they do this is because at the time,
back then, there's a semi nomadic tribe the Ababda, and
(15:02):
they're from Egypt. They use this land as grazy land
for their animals. But the situation becomes complicated because on
the other side, if you go just a little bit
further east to the coast of the Red Sea, there's
another piece of land or property that switches.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
You either own the you either own the area of
the inhospitable desert of Beerta Will, or you control something
called the Halib triangle.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
So is Birto Will just kind of the shape that
got left out from all this carving, just the little
like leftover remnant that nobody wanted because they had already
taken their bits, and this was the part that like
nothing quite intersected with. And now it's this inconvenient truth
that they have to reconcile to some degree.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
It's the weakness. Yeah, it's little dingus of the thing
because they again they just like you were saying, drew
that straight line across the p lell and this is
where okay, so this is where we get to a
mutually exclusive thing. You can either own beirta Will or
you can own the Halib Triangle. And pardon our pronunciation,
(16:13):
we're not native Arabic speakers, the triangle is by far
the better piece of real estate. We're talking park Place
versus one of the dumb Monopoly squares at the very
beginning of the game Jail right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
like that. So here's why the triangle is so much better.
(16:34):
It's on the coast of the Red Sea, so you
have sea access, and it is much larger. It's seven
nine hundred and fifty square miles approximately, and a lot
of that area is not in hospitable desert. So both
Egypt and Sudan want the triangle. The area the triangle
(16:54):
initially comes under control of the British Governor of Sudan.
Neither country is super happy about this. Egypt and Sudan
both want the triangle, but ultimately they answered to Britain,
so they can't really do anything about it except steam
slowly and cooking their own juices. Problems really start when
(17:16):
these countries both become independent.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, it happens in nineteen fifty six when Sudan claimed ownership.
At which time, rather Sudan claimed ownership of the Halaib Triangle,
but Egypt then said not so fast. The Sudan stating
that the nineteen oh two administrative boundary was meant to
be temporary. So the Halaib Triangle, for all intents and purposes,
(17:44):
according to Egypt anyway, belonged to Egypt, and the beer
Ta Will was Sudan's.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah, and Sudan said exactly the opposite. So each country
for more than a hundred years now, how ridiculous is this,
each of them insists that the map that shows the
triangle as their territory is the real map. And as
a side effect, neither country will ever claim beer Ta
(18:13):
Will because if they did so, they would agree with
the other guy's map and they would sacrifice their claim
to that juicy triangle. It's so surreal the country's leaders like,
no matter who is in government, even after the split
between Sudan and South Sudan in our lifetimes, every leader
(18:34):
of both of these countries just keeps accusing the other
guy of owning beer Ta Will.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
It's very doctor Strangelove, very you pointed out, and Joseph
Heller makes me think of something curvan and it might
get wrapped up in this idea of a place that
frontons and purposes at least two those concerned does not exist. However,
you know, people do pass through it. It exists, you know,
(19:00):
as a geographical feature, and.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
So you do.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Well, there aren't very many folks who have settled it.
You will see nomadic communities passing through.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Ben.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
You also pointed out that professor Alistair Bonnett, who's a
social geographer and author of The Unruly Places, described it
as the only habitable place on Earth not currently claimed
by any recognized government, which supports I think we've been.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Saying, you try to make somebody else claim it.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Take it man now. But so back to the nomadic communities, Ben,
they passed through.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
You get folks maybe panning for gold and things like that,
temporarily setting up to try to extract some resources.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
But in general it's it's still got that terrannolious thing
going for it.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah, exactly. And this is this is where we get
to a bit of a bookend, right, because of course,
shout out to Tim and Eric. You look at this
and some people think it's free real estate, right, it's
free real estate. We got the keys for you right here.
So multiple people we have tried to exercise this old
colonial idea of Terra nulius and create what we will
(20:06):
call a micronation thing. Is a lot of these folks
haven't actually visited. They've gone online and said, I this
is me, now I own this.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, good luck once you actually get there and see
how rough ago you're probably gonna.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Have of it there in that absolutely brutal climate.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah yeah, And this goes back to an old hobby
horse of ours folks from years ago, the concept of micronations.
Please check out our earlier episodes in multiples.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
The Principality of Sealand that's a cool one. It's an
old fort off the coast of the United Kingdom.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
One of the most interesting attempts to control beerta Will
occurs in twenty fourteen. A lot of people are trying
to do this, but there's one guy who doesn't just
talk trash on the internet. His name's Jeremiah Heaton, and
he travels in person to Beard tall Will. His motivation
is odd and pretty noble because ever since she was
(21:12):
a wee tyke, his daughter, Emily had been obsessed with
the idea of becoming a real princess.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
I mean, okay, as everybody's little daughter up to an age. Right,
man dude seemed to he's got Amelia Badelia disorder. He's
taking it very literally.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Oh what a great reference was I recently reread an
Amelia Badillia book. This guy Jeremiah, he says where his
official reasoning is, Beard Tall Will is my chance to
make my daughter Emily's dream a reality. So as a
birthday present, daughter, O mine, I am traveling to Beard
to Will. I'm gonna take ownership of this disputed land,
(21:58):
this terror, nullius, no desires. I'm going to found a
new country. We'll call it the Kingdom of North Sudan.
I'm going to install myself as head of state and
a burst of humility, and then I will make you
my daughter at actual princess. Yeah, and she also gets
a pony, and she got yeah, all the Barbie dolls.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
It's a lot, man.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
This is this guy.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I don't know what he was going for quite here.
I mean, I'm all about the love of a father
for their offspring. This seems like it's taking in an
odd direction. He did, in fact, plant a flag and
started a campaign to raise two hundred and fifty thousand
US dollars in order to help develop this new nation.
Seems low for developing of a nation. Yeah, in pr terms.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
This is an absolute brutal miss to you.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
It was terrible.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
It was. It was so bad.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
It was on the level of that time during the
COVID nineteen lockdown where a bunch of celebrities started singing
that song together.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Remember I don't know which song it was, but it
was definitely cringe.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, it was pretty tote.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
It a We are the World esque situation, but even
more tone deaf.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, it was an attempt. It was a swing and
a miss. It was a big with and so was
Jeremiah Heaton's attempt here. Now we haven't spoken with mister
Heaton ourselves, but what we can see is that instead
of people contributing toward this two hundred and fifty thousand
US dollars goal, instead folks from across the planet united
(23:34):
as haters and critics, and they said, you were not
being cool. This is not about your daughter, dude. You're
trying to bring back colonialism. You are twenty first century imperialist.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
M and perhaps even a twenty first century schizoid man,
because he was absolutely dripping. This is a wild, outlandish
idea that went absolutely nowhere, and I.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Just don't get it. It's just he going for here.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Do you think it was really just to impress his kid,
as there's so many better ways of going about that.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
I don't know. It reminds me to this will be
familiar to any of our friends in the audience who
might have a well meaning but tone deaf relative or parent,
because sometimes you get that, you get that present where
Oh I'm thinking in particular, I won't give names, but
I'm thinking in particular of an old friend of mine.
(24:27):
Her parents have been separated for a long time, right,
but the dad and the mom are still in their
daughter's life. And the dad is so tone deaf that
because his daughter all like back when she was six
or eight years old, said she liked leopard print as
a child. Every time her birthday comes up, this guy
(24:49):
just gets her something vaguely leopard themed, and she's talked
to him about it.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Oh, I was gonna say, we didn't even have the
heart to tell him, but yeah, I got you, super
super bizarre.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
This is like the most to the nth degree version
of that kind of well meaning this and I would argue,
per the Internet, this is maybe not even well meaning,
Like maybe there's something else going on.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Here right now. The official reason versus unofficial on.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
The lore, the the myth making of it all. The
only structured, an ongoing claim to this region or this
strip of Noman's land comes from the Prince get An
actual facts, Prince orn Voclbam Giovanni Caparaso Gottlieb.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yes, yeah, of beer to Will if you ask him. Yeah.
So unlike the more symbolic or the more Internet driven
claims of the past, this guy is really putting the
work in. He must have the capital to burn. He
has created this initiative that includes a theoretical framework of governance.
(25:56):
It has a resident population, and it has people who
claim that they are diplomats. They even put their money
where their mouth is, and they're calling themselves the Principality
of birds Will. And they submitted a request earlier this year,
in January of twenty twenty five, to be admitted to
the United Nations as an observer state. They really want
(26:19):
that legitimacy.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
They just want to audit basically, you know, just sit
in the back of the class and just check it out. Yeah,
they just want to be in the room, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
And we see that with the actually we see that
with a lot of emergent would be countries did not
micro nations. Yeah, and that's how you like get your
foot in the door.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Just hang out, yeah network.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Yeah, so later you.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Can say, oh, I am an actual state because you
guys let me hang out in the back. Remember, I
didn't vote, I didn't make trouble, I.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Didn't get a grade. But you know, I learned the gist.
I learned the gist.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
So make it official. This is the most formal and
ambitious action ever taken regarding this territory since the late
eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Well, and it does have a citizenry. It has a population.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
According to the twenty twenty fourth census, the principality counts
three thousand and thirty citizens, many of whom belong to
the abbadbah Abadhbah and Bashiri people, nomadic ethnic groups native
to the region. Gottlieb is recognized by local leaders as
the head of state, and the principality maintains a loose
(27:31):
administrative structure that's centered around it's capital, Marianne Station One.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
That's a sexy name for a capital.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
It's a weird name, right, Where's marian Station two, exactly right.
It's like how we have how we have certain restaurants
here in Atlanta Cafe Yeah, the three, or Chin Chin
two we used to hang out at all the time
after work or Foe Di Loi number two. It's very strange.
(28:02):
So the territory does make money, or at least they
publish some loose financials, and their primary source of revenue
is tourism, especially from people who say, I want to
visit a place that technically isn't anywhere.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
It's like that place where all the states intersect, you know,
that little triangle people like to go to on Goofy
road trips.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Not Goofy. It's absolutely a viable place to visit, but
it does seem like one of those you know, like
families in the Winnebago.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Going across the country and checking out the place where
all the states meet and then going to see Rock
City a little bit.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Kitchie, right, we're talking about lookout mountains specific and if
the weather is nice, you can see technically a lot
of states, but bring quarters for the binoculars. That's how
they get.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Nothing's for free.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, not in the US. Now, the principality of Beard
to Will this would be a nation. This pretend to
the international order. It says, Look, we're neutral, we're multi ethnic,
we're multi religious, we are above all peaceful. We want
to coexist. They have a coexistence bumper sticker on all
(29:13):
their cards. One of those facts was made of Well,
that'll be up to you.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Ridiculous story. It's the guests which one?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
And if you ask any official source, they will tell
you the principality does not technically.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Or legally in fact exist.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Yeah, here we are yeap. History is weird, folks, and
real estate drug. Yeah, well, history is weird, belief is
a hell of a drug, and real estate is downright ridiculous.
We wanted to ask you a favor here as we're
getting toward the end of this episode and indeed the
end of the calendar year. If you feel so moved folks,
(29:47):
if you are thinking, oh gosh, I'd love to give
the guys a little present for the holiday season, why
not just pop over to your podcast platform of choice,
give us five stars if if you can, and give
us a quick quirky shout out to one of your
favorite episodes. There we go. I think that's fair to
(30:08):
ask that.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Absolutely, it's the least you can do.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Well. We sure appreciate your time, folks. We know things
are always crazy now, and you know there's that old
idiom about how or that old figures speech about how
people often don't want to live in times where history
is being made. But we are here with you and
we can't thank you enough for tuning in. Also, we'd
(30:34):
like to thank our super producer mister Max Williams and
our mysterious in house composer Alex the Nomad Williams.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Oh yeah, very much. A nomadic cat that Alex Williams.
I hope to see him around these parts very soon.
Huge thanks to Christo Frasciotis and he'ves, Jeff Coates here
and Spira, Jonathan Strickland, the quizz A, j Bahamas, Jacob's
up Uzzler.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
As well as doctor Rachel Big Spinach Lance and the
Rude Dudes over It Ridiculous Crime. If you dig us,
you'll love them, So tell them we sent you over there.
And uh, I don't know what do you think? Road
trip beiritual will road rules.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Baby, See you next time, folks.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our super producer,
Max the monopoly Man William.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I was thinking of something like that, Max the Landlord. Yea,
the Landlord's Games.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
The original, the original version of Monopoly was called The
Landlord's Game, and it's a it's a warning, a clarion call,
and a parable about the dangers of unfettered capitalism. Spoiler.
That's part of why Monopoly as it stands now is broken.
It's a broken game and it breaks a lot of
(01:03):
families over the holidays. You're mister Noel Brown. Yes, kren Bollin,
I am from earlier and nol. This is going to
be a fun win for us because we discussed it
a little bit in an episode of our sister show Stuff.
They don't want you to know. Maybe the best way
to get into it is to talk about real estate.
(01:25):
It's always been kind of a hot, sometimes touchy commodity.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
It's real estate.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
They ain't making any more land, right or maybe we'll
say a TBD on that. So yeah, with billions of
people across this planet of ours. Real estate has always
been that thing hot and sometimes.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Touchy, as you said, commodity.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
However, on a local level we start to see the
prices of housing and rent playing huge roles in a
particular or community's success and or failure.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, and then if we scope out to a regional level,
we will see that states and nations, pretty much since
civilization began have always been constantly fighting over who gets
to own certain things, often with bloody results.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Yeah, min ys am, I.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Right, shotgun, either as in calling dibbs or using firearms.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
So to threaten people to stay off my land.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Right, And for the most part, people aren't building new
land technically, there are endeavors out in East Asia and
in the Middle East to make new islands or to
expand existing land.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
What about terraforming Mars? How are we doing on that?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Still in the drawing board phase? Yeah, but outside of
a few places like Antarctica, which has been dedicated to
pure scientific research due to the ant Arctic a Treaty's And.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Also it ain't good for much else given the inhospitable climbs.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Right, it's great for building snowmen, but or accidentally becoming
a snowman if you're outside too long. But outside of
places like Antarctica or the Moon, maybe Mars, to your point,
it seems like every other place on Earth is kind
of owned by someone.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, it's a real estate land whatever is what they
might call at a premium places like New York City,
where everything is even more.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Scarce in terms of literal space.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
You start seeing things just getting stacked on top of
each other, you know, up as far as allowable limits
might dictate.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
What are those called air rights?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, air rights up into airspace? How far can you go?
How much? How much of the air past the top
of your building.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Do you own? Can you own the air? Can you
own the wind? Can you own a I would love.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
To be able to of the wind? Some people do
own songs, which will be a fun episode for us
to explore in the future.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Colors of the Wind. It could be reinterpreted as a
song about synaesthesia.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
There it is, and I love it. I'm here for
it as a sena state. So, as we're going to
see in today's episode, it turns out, despite this huge
land grabs that's been going on for all of human
ridiculous history, there are some parts of planet Earth that
literally nobody wants. One of our favorites is a little
(04:29):
place called beer how will.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
If you might pull up a map of Africa or
the African continent, and perchance zoom in on the border
between Sudan and Egypt, you might notice a little something odd,
a postage stamp sized seven nine ninety five square mile
piece of land sandwiched betwixt those two countries. Egypt says
(04:53):
it belongs to Sudan, Sudan says it belongs to Eai.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Wait anut wouldn't usually be the other way around, right?
What about the mine of it all? That's right?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
What about the mind of it all?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
No?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Whatever does yours?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I love betwixt as well. So both countries make maps
to this day claiming the other country owns this little
spot of lands.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Take it, please, please take it.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
And they keep trying to just push their own versions
of the truth and get the United Nations to accept it.
Our friends over at the Guardian can tell you how
to get to beerta will spelled. It's two different words,
bi r space tawil. Spoiler, folks, it is super inconvenient
(05:35):
to get over to this place.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Let's go take some doing.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
According to The Guardian, to get there, you have two choices,
they say. The first is to fly to the Sudanese
capital Khartoum, charter a jeep and follow the Shindy Road
hundreds of miles up to Abu Ahmed, which is a
settlement that dates back to the ancient kingdom.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Of Kush, which I love the name of that kingdom.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, reasons fun to say. But also is that it's
a we'd thing right, Yes, it's a.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Cannabis term today. The Guardian continues, this settlement Abuhamad, serves
as the region's final permanent human outposts before you reach
the vast waste of the Nubian desert. It is twice
the size of mainland Britain. It's almost completely barren. The
(06:23):
second option they mentioned is to approach from Egypt, which
means you have to go to the southernmost city, Aswan.
You have to somehow find your way down through the
inhospitable expanse between Lake Nasser to the west and the
Red Sea to the east. This is going to be
a tougher option because the Egyptian Army considers this a
(06:44):
restricted zone, so you got to get a lot of
paperwork before you go blessed eb shot at Yes, blessed
eb shotgun to pollen. And once you arrive, here's the thing, folks,
if you make it to actual beerta will you are
going to be unimpressed.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
It is deserted unless you're into barren, uninhabited places with
no signs of human life or activity. That's because beer
to Wheel is exactly that thing. There are no traces
of permanent inhabitants, no roads and on need roads. It's
not governed by any law. The land cover is sand
(07:23):
and several mountains are the only features to speak of.
It is a real life no man's land or terra
nullius and nullius. And Ben also makes me think of
something we talked about on stuff they don't want you
to know about some places where a lot of these
like phone bank scams take place, and they're these like
(07:44):
sort of off the books, lawless regions in the jungle
where these kinds of operations are able to you know,
sort of go unnoticed by any international authority or even
national authority.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I mean where that was Ben, we'd.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Be thinking specifically, Yeah, me and mar there in Southeast Asia.
Check out the work by our colleague Denise Chan on
the scam industry. There scam factory excellent, and a lot
of those folks are working there against their will. Always remember,
even if a scammer is calling you, they might be
(08:24):
forced to do so. Also, I love the point about
whether or not you will find bertel Will impressive. Fellow
ridiculous historians. I fondly recall one of the first times
I saw the desert ecosystem of the United States, and
it struck me that if a god exists, this must
be the place where that god got into abstract art.
(08:48):
So if you like abstract art, you might like bertel Will,
but you will be hard pressed to find a decent.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Root beer flo uh yeah, or maybe even like potable water.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
You know.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
The land terranilius.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
By the way, the term we were talking about a
moment ago is a Latin phrase meaning land belonging to
no one, and describes a territory or territories that aren't
claimed or recognized by any state or sovereign authority. In
the international law community, this is a concept that's often
been used to justify occupation of said land because no
(09:22):
one called dibbs this land, being not under any formal
government control, even when there might be a handful of
settlers there.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, there are people who have been living there for
untold millenniash. This goes back to the days of colonialism
where you could just plant a flag and say shotgun.
You know this is now France somehow. Yeah right, they.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Called dibbs.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Right, and border disputes going back to your earlier point,
they're all too common in ancient and modern history. But
usually those disputes, overwhelmingly, those disputes arise from two or
more nations all wanting to own the same piece of property.
This is the opposite of that. For more, it's so weird.
(10:15):
For more than a century, both Egypt and Sudan have
looked at this desolate stretch of abstract art desert and
said no, no, no, seriously, no you take it. No, no, no, no, no,
you guys take it.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
And I mean you might be thinking to yourself, like,
why wouldn't even do that? It seems like, you know,
empires have always been built on like acquiring and conquering,
and you know, planting that flag it must have something
to do with it not being a particularly worthwhile strategic anything.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
It has everything to do with that, And you nailed it.
So how did we get here? The quick origin story
to understand this truly ridiculous, mad cap situation, we got
a traveled back to the British occupation of Egypt in
eighteen eighty two. So ostensibly they made a short term solution.
(11:16):
They wanted to protect British monetary interests, the Empire's interest
in the country of Egypt, and they also wanted to
control local trade. They were super pissed at the Ottoman
Empire at this time, so they wanted to fu's with
the Ottoman Empire, and they wanted to strengthen their control
(11:37):
or influence on the Suez Canal. This seizure of land
kickstarted what we call the Scramble of African If you
fast forward to eighteen ninety nine, you run into a
very fancily and confusingly named thing, the Anglo Egyptian Condominium Agreement.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah, what's that about? The Egyptian condominiums as like a timeshare.
This is what set the border between these two countries
at the twenty second parallel during the era of peak colonialism.
The Brits were essentially making an executive decision about this
without particularly consulting anybody else, specifically the locals. The first
(12:23):
attempt to redraw those boundaries followed a similar pattern to
how European powers might have drawn up the rest or
sliced up, carved up the rest of Africa, using straight
lines with very little consideration for geographical features cultural divides,
you know, between the different regions, or going along with that,
(12:43):
ethnic differences, as we know in this part of the
world can vary widely in a very small distance across
very small.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Absolutely, yeah, because cultural boundaries can often be distinct from
geographical boundaries. And I love that point. Somebody looked at
the map, we don't have to get into it. If
someone looked at the map, thought of the parallels and
just took a line and a ruler and went ship yep,
chippy choppy, chippy choppy, tiketiboo, tally ho. They in a
(13:16):
rare backstep or backpedal for the Empire. Just a few
years later, in nineteen o two, the United Kingdom drew
a separate, different boundary for administrative purposes. This is where
the map starts to go wrong. Now at this time,
still Egypt and Suddan are not really independent. They are
(13:39):
vassal states or vassal regions of the British Empire. So officially,
our friends the Brits hope that these new boundaries can
reflect the land based on what you were saying, No,
the use by locals in the area. Right, So if
these folks consider themselves Egyptian, why don't we call it
(14:00):
this part Egyptian territory. But unofficially, see, that was what
they sold to the PC masses. Unofficially they had a
race for resource extraction and control, and they kind of
they made this deal go through by softly implying in
back rooms that this was a temporary solution. It was
(14:22):
a band aid. We're just keeping we just keeping things
stable until the more permanent solution can be found.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Keep calm and move on, motherfuckers. Right, chin up, and
thanks for the beep there, Thanks for the beep, their macks.
This was not the truth.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
They were making a long term play to carve up
and further control the area. So the new boundary in
nineteen oh two puts this tiny little as you said,
postage stamp beer to will as part of Egypt. And
the reason they do this is because at the time,
back then, there's a semi nomadic tribe the Ababda, and
(15:02):
they're from Egypt. They use this land as grazy land
for their animals. But the situation becomes complicated because on
the other side, if you go just a little bit
further east to the coast of the Red Sea, there's
another piece of land or property that switches.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
You either own the you either own the area of
the inhospitable desert of Beerta Will, or you control something
called the Halib triangle.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
So is Birto Will just kind of the shape that
got left out from all this carving, just the little
like leftover remnant that nobody wanted because they had already
taken their bits, and this was the part that like
nothing quite intersected with. And now it's this inconvenient truth
that they have to reconcile to some degree.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
It's the weakness. Yeah, it's little dingus of the thing
because they again they just like you were saying, drew
that straight line across the p lell and this is
where okay, so this is where we get to a
mutually exclusive thing. You can either own beirta Will or
you can own the Halib Triangle. And pardon our pronunciation,
(16:13):
we're not native Arabic speakers, the triangle is by far
the better piece of real estate. We're talking park Place
versus one of the dumb Monopoly squares at the very
beginning of the game Jail right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
like that. So here's why the triangle is so much better.
(16:34):
It's on the coast of the Red Sea, so you
have sea access, and it is much larger. It's seven
nine hundred and fifty square miles approximately, and a lot
of that area is not in hospitable desert. So both
Egypt and Sudan want the triangle. The area the triangle
(16:54):
initially comes under control of the British Governor of Sudan.
Neither country is super happy about this. Egypt and Sudan
both want the triangle, but ultimately they answered to Britain,
so they can't really do anything about it except steam
slowly and cooking their own juices. Problems really start when
(17:16):
these countries both become independent.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, it happens in nineteen fifty six when Sudan claimed ownership.
At which time, rather Sudan claimed ownership of the Halaib Triangle,
but Egypt then said not so fast. The Sudan stating
that the nineteen oh two administrative boundary was meant to
be temporary. So the Halaib Triangle, for all intents and purposes,
(17:44):
according to Egypt anyway, belonged to Egypt, and the beer
Ta Will was Sudan's.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah, and Sudan said exactly the opposite. So each country
for more than a hundred years now, how ridiculous is this,
each of them insists that the map that shows the
triangle as their territory is the real map. And as
a side effect, neither country will ever claim beer Ta
(18:13):
Will because if they did so, they would agree with
the other guy's map and they would sacrifice their claim
to that juicy triangle. It's so surreal the country's leaders like,
no matter who is in government, even after the split
between Sudan and South Sudan in our lifetimes, every leader
(18:34):
of both of these countries just keeps accusing the other
guy of owning beer Ta Will.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
It's very doctor Strangelove, very you pointed out, and Joseph
Heller makes me think of something curvan and it might
get wrapped up in this idea of a place that
frontons and purposes at least two those concerned does not exist. However,
you know, people do pass through it. It exists, you know,
(19:00):
as a geographical feature, and.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
So you do.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Well, there aren't very many folks who have settled it.
You will see nomadic communities passing through.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Ben.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
You also pointed out that professor Alistair Bonnett, who's a
social geographer and author of The Unruly Places, described it
as the only habitable place on Earth not currently claimed
by any recognized government, which supports I think we've been.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Saying, you try to make somebody else claim it.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Take it man now. But so back to the nomadic communities, Ben,
they passed through.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
You get folks maybe panning for gold and things like that,
temporarily setting up to try to extract some resources.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
But in general it's it's still got that terrannolious thing
going for it.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah, exactly. And this is this is where we get
to a bit of a bookend, right, because of course,
shout out to Tim and Eric. You look at this
and some people think it's free real estate, right, it's
free real estate. We got the keys for you right here.
So multiple people we have tried to exercise this old
colonial idea of Terra nulius and create what we will
(20:06):
call a micronation thing. Is a lot of these folks
haven't actually visited. They've gone online and said, I this
is me, now I own this.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, good luck once you actually get there and see
how rough ago you're probably gonna.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Have of it there in that absolutely brutal climate.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah yeah, And this goes back to an old hobby
horse of ours folks from years ago, the concept of micronations.
Please check out our earlier episodes in multiples.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
The Principality of Sealand that's a cool one. It's an
old fort off the coast of the United Kingdom.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
One of the most interesting attempts to control beerta Will
occurs in twenty fourteen. A lot of people are trying
to do this, but there's one guy who doesn't just
talk trash on the internet. His name's Jeremiah Heaton, and
he travels in person to Beard tall Will. His motivation
is odd and pretty noble because ever since she was
(21:12):
a wee tyke, his daughter, Emily had been obsessed with
the idea of becoming a real princess.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
I mean, okay, as everybody's little daughter up to an age. Right,
man dude seemed to he's got Amelia Badelia disorder. He's
taking it very literally.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Oh what a great reference was I recently reread an
Amelia Badillia book. This guy Jeremiah, he says where his
official reasoning is, Beard Tall Will is my chance to
make my daughter Emily's dream a reality. So as a
birthday present, daughter, O mine, I am traveling to Beard
to Will. I'm gonna take ownership of this disputed land,
(21:58):
this terror, nullius, no desires. I'm going to found a
new country. We'll call it the Kingdom of North Sudan.
I'm going to install myself as head of state and
a burst of humility, and then I will make you
my daughter at actual princess. Yeah, and she also gets
a pony, and she got yeah, all the Barbie dolls.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
It's a lot, man.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
This is this guy.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I don't know what he was going for quite here.
I mean, I'm all about the love of a father
for their offspring. This seems like it's taking in an
odd direction. He did, in fact, plant a flag and
started a campaign to raise two hundred and fifty thousand
US dollars in order to help develop this new nation.
Seems low for developing of a nation. Yeah, in pr terms.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
This is an absolute brutal miss to you.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
It was terrible.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
It was. It was so bad.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
It was on the level of that time during the
COVID nineteen lockdown where a bunch of celebrities started singing
that song together.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Remember I don't know which song it was, but it
was definitely cringe.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, it was pretty tote.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
It a We are the World esque situation, but even
more tone deaf.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, it was an attempt. It was a swing and
a miss. It was a big with and so was
Jeremiah Heaton's attempt here. Now we haven't spoken with mister
Heaton ourselves, but what we can see is that instead
of people contributing toward this two hundred and fifty thousand
US dollars goal, instead folks from across the planet united
(23:34):
as haters and critics, and they said, you were not
being cool. This is not about your daughter, dude. You're
trying to bring back colonialism. You are twenty first century imperialist.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
M and perhaps even a twenty first century schizoid man,
because he was absolutely dripping. This is a wild, outlandish
idea that went absolutely nowhere, and I.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Just don't get it. It's just he going for here.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Do you think it was really just to impress his kid,
as there's so many better ways of going about that.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
I don't know. It reminds me to this will be
familiar to any of our friends in the audience who
might have a well meaning but tone deaf relative or parent,
because sometimes you get that, you get that present where
Oh I'm thinking in particular, I won't give names, but
I'm thinking in particular of an old friend of mine.
(24:27):
Her parents have been separated for a long time, right,
but the dad and the mom are still in their
daughter's life. And the dad is so tone deaf that
because his daughter all like back when she was six
or eight years old, said she liked leopard print as
a child. Every time her birthday comes up, this guy
(24:49):
just gets her something vaguely leopard themed, and she's talked
to him about it.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Oh, I was gonna say, we didn't even have the
heart to tell him, but yeah, I got you, super
super bizarre.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
This is like the most to the nth degree version
of that kind of well meaning this and I would argue,
per the Internet, this is maybe not even well meaning,
Like maybe there's something else going on.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Here right now. The official reason versus unofficial on.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
The lore, the the myth making of it all. The
only structured, an ongoing claim to this region or this
strip of Noman's land comes from the Prince get An
actual facts, Prince orn Voclbam Giovanni Caparaso Gottlieb.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yes, yeah, of beer to Will if you ask him. Yeah.
So unlike the more symbolic or the more Internet driven
claims of the past, this guy is really putting the
work in. He must have the capital to burn. He
has created this initiative that includes a theoretical framework of governance.
(25:56):
It has a resident population, and it has people who
claim that they are diplomats. They even put their money
where their mouth is, and they're calling themselves the Principality
of birds Will. And they submitted a request earlier this year,
in January of twenty twenty five, to be admitted to
the United Nations as an observer state. They really want
(26:19):
that legitimacy.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
They just want to audit basically, you know, just sit
in the back of the class and just check it out. Yeah,
they just want to be in the room, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
And we see that with the actually we see that
with a lot of emergent would be countries did not
micro nations. Yeah, and that's how you like get your
foot in the door.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Just hang out, yeah network.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Yeah, so later you.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Can say, oh, I am an actual state because you
guys let me hang out in the back. Remember, I
didn't vote, I didn't make trouble, I.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Didn't get a grade. But you know, I learned the gist.
I learned the gist.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
So make it official. This is the most formal and
ambitious action ever taken regarding this territory since the late
eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Well, and it does have a citizenry. It has a population.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
According to the twenty twenty fourth census, the principality counts
three thousand and thirty citizens, many of whom belong to
the abbadbah Abadhbah and Bashiri people, nomadic ethnic groups native
to the region. Gottlieb is recognized by local leaders as
the head of state, and the principality maintains a loose
(27:31):
administrative structure that's centered around it's capital, Marianne Station One.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
That's a sexy name for a capital.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
It's a weird name, right, Where's marian Station two, exactly right.
It's like how we have how we have certain restaurants
here in Atlanta Cafe Yeah, the three, or Chin Chin
two we used to hang out at all the time
after work or Foe Di Loi number two. It's very strange.
(28:02):
So the territory does make money, or at least they
publish some loose financials, and their primary source of revenue
is tourism, especially from people who say, I want to
visit a place that technically isn't anywhere.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
It's like that place where all the states intersect, you know,
that little triangle people like to go to on Goofy
road trips.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Not Goofy. It's absolutely a viable place to visit, but
it does seem like one of those you know, like
families in the Winnebago.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Going across the country and checking out the place where
all the states meet and then going to see Rock
City a little bit.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Kitchie, right, we're talking about lookout mountains specific and if
the weather is nice, you can see technically a lot
of states, but bring quarters for the binoculars. That's how
they get.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Nothing's for free.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, not in the US. Now, the principality of Beard
to Will this would be a nation. This pretend to
the international order. It says, Look, we're neutral, we're multi ethnic,
we're multi religious, we are above all peaceful. We want
to coexist. They have a coexistence bumper sticker on all
(29:13):
their cards. One of those facts was made of Well,
that'll be up to you.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Ridiculous story. It's the guests which one?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
And if you ask any official source, they will tell
you the principality does not technically.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Or legally in fact exist.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Yeah, here we are yeap. History is weird, folks, and
real estate drug. Yeah, well, history is weird, belief is
a hell of a drug, and real estate is downright ridiculous.
We wanted to ask you a favor here as we're
getting toward the end of this episode and indeed the
end of the calendar year. If you feel so moved folks,
(29:47):
if you are thinking, oh gosh, I'd love to give
the guys a little present for the holiday season, why
not just pop over to your podcast platform of choice,
give us five stars if if you can, and give
us a quick quirky shout out to one of your
favorite episodes. There we go. I think that's fair to
(30:08):
ask that.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Absolutely, it's the least you can do.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Well. We sure appreciate your time, folks. We know things
are always crazy now, and you know there's that old
idiom about how or that old figures speech about how
people often don't want to live in times where history
is being made. But we are here with you and
we can't thank you enough for tuning in. Also, we'd
(30:34):
like to thank our super producer mister Max Williams and
our mysterious in house composer Alex the Nomad Williams.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Oh yeah, very much. A nomadic cat that Alex Williams.
I hope to see him around these parts very soon.
Huge thanks to Christo Frasciotis and he'ves, Jeff Coates here
and Spira, Jonathan Strickland, the quizz A, j Bahamas, Jacob's
up Uzzler.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
As well as doctor Rachel Big Spinach Lance and the
Rude Dudes over It Ridiculous Crime. If you dig us,
you'll love them, So tell them we sent you over there.
And uh, I don't know what do you think? Road
trip beiritual will road rules.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Baby, See you next time, folks.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
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Noel Brown
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