October 8, 2019 • 38 mins
For decades in the West, Christopher Columbus was often inaccurately portrayed as a pioneering explorer, his life, times and crimes sanitized in the public record. Schoolchildren learned rhymes about this individual, and in the US he was given an official holiday. However, the activities of the real Christopher Columbus fall far short of the image children were taught growing up. In fact, Columbus was such a dirtbag that, eventually, even the Spanish Crown turned against him.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous history as a production of I Heart Radio. Here's
(00:27):
a golden oldie many of us will instantly remember in
four d and nine two Columbus sailed the Ocean blue.
He had three ships and left from Spain. He sailed
through sunshine, wind and rain, and it goes on and
on and on. It's not terribly historically accurate. It's about
(00:47):
a guy named Christopher Columbus, or at least that's how
we say the name of Cristobal Cologne in English. Hi,
I'm ben Ben. I know this isn't about Chris Columbus,
who directed the Home Alone movies. This is no, this
is not that guy succeeded despite the nominative determinism working
against him. Uh. And you know, uh, we've got to
(01:09):
say this is this somewhat of a timely episode. The
day that is sometimes called Indigenous People's Days, sometimes called
Columbus Day is upon us. You know, it's coming up
in a few weeks. Have you ever seen that episode
of the Sopranos Um where uh, Tony and the crew
get all up in arms with the Native American population
(01:31):
in New Jersey. Um, kind of arguing about Columbus Day
and the Columbus Day Parade. No I was established earlier.
I haven't seen the sopranis. Oh that's right. Have we
talked about this. I didn't remember. It's just it's such
a good show. Um, but it is a big deal
in the Italian community. Uh. Columbus has still kind of
looked at as a bit of a as a bit
of a hero in certain certain circles. And it's a
(01:53):
very controversial thing because the idea of calling it Indigenous
People's Day to folks who still think Columbus was an
okay guy. Um, that's they think that's like overly PC
or it's sort of whitewashing history or whatever, and they
don't dig. And that's the episode of the club the
spranis about. Um. But yeah, it turns out Colomas not
a particularly great guy. No. No. Now, in certain circles,
(02:17):
of course, all sorts of historical figures are are lauded,
right and looked up to uh figure that we see
as incredibly heroic. And this certain circle of ours, fellow listeners,
is our super producer Casey Pegram, who in his absence,
has bequeathed it's a joke for everyone to listen to
(02:39):
the last episode bequeathed us the wonderful presence of our
guest super producer j J. Pauseway, so let's give it
up for him, j J. How you doing? Okay? That's
a thumbs up from j J. We know that history
is much more complicated than the tales we teach to
school children. And if you who are an eighties or
(03:01):
nineties baby, as they're called here in the US, then
at least in elementary school, you probably got a very
sanitized version of the the explorations of Christopher Columbus. And
on the second Monday of every October this day occurs
Columbus Day Indigenous People's Day. But in recent decades, especially
(03:23):
the last decade or so, more and more historians have
brought to the mainstream the problematic life and work of
this explorer, ultimately asking should we treat him as a hero?
It turns out that this controversy is not new. In fact,
(03:44):
this controversy over whether Columbus was a villain or a
hero dates all the way back to the time of
the Spanish monarchy, which is crazy. It is crazy. And
just to backtrack really quickly, something I saw at the
top of the show, I just wanted to clarify, um,
Columbus Day is often kind of enshrined in the Italian
American community as sort of a celebration of their own heritage,
(04:06):
and many in that community do still defend it to
this day, and that is kind of what that Sopranos
episode is about. But it goes all the way back
to New York City in eighteen sixty six when the
first Columbus Day celebration took place. So obviously everybody in
the Italian American community doesn't fiercely defend Columbus Day, but
(04:27):
it is very much still an ongoing point of contention.
I see, yeah, and that's because, uh, Columbus is Italian.
He was born in the Republic of Genoa in fourteen
fifty one, and he grew up along the Italian coast
in the northwest. When he was ten years old, he
started working on ships. He was, you know, probably like
(04:49):
a cabin boy something like that, transporting goods from the
Iberian Peninsula all the way up to Ireland. Eventually he
settles down in Lisbon and he continues to work as
a shipper and importer. He marries, he has a kid.
He learns to speak several languages. He was a polyglot.
He spoke Latin, Portuguese and Castilian, and he was self taught. Right,
(05:15):
he didn't obtain a formal education. Not as big a
deal then as it is now. Right. He uh, He
read astronomy, geography, history, and he loved reading the stories
of travelers like Marco Polo. And he came up at
a time when exploration was a big deal on the
idea of whether it be expansion or just sort of
going venturing out into the world. Because of the storied
(05:38):
and history of folks like Marco Polo, trade by shipping
roots was a huge deal. Um. But in fourteen fifty three,
that is when Constantinople was defeated, it was overtaken by
the Ottoman Turks, and some of these trade routes that
had been you know, a breeze became very dangerous to Europeans,
(06:01):
specifically Christian Europeans. And these roots lead to Asia and
the Silk Road for trading of spices and fabrics and
all kinds of different goods that you just couldn't get
in Europe. Um. So it became a very important time
to find friendlier routes to Asia, whether by sea or
(06:22):
by land. Um. And that is when the King of
Portugal's astronomer in fourteen seventy decided that it would be
a smart move to go west, young man, to the
Iberian Peninsula, where you could kind of reinvigorate some of
this trade with Asia exactly exactly. And they weren't they
(06:42):
weren't sure what they would find. But a lot of
this stuff you'll hear, especially as a child, about sailing
or circuit navigating the globe. We're attempting to sail long
distances across the seas is going to be sort of simplified.
History shows us that knowledge of world geography developed unevenly
(07:05):
so some regions, in some countries, some communities knew more
about the world around us in the world over the
edges of the map than others did. But people wanted
to search for these new trade routes. This is something
that later our species would call the Age of Discovery.
In European explorer Bartolomuldas reaches the Cape of Good Hope
(07:32):
that's at the southern tip of the African continent. And
although this opened up a new area of focus for
a lot of explorers, Columbus and his brother, who also
lived in Lisbon remained strongly committed to this idea of
sailing west from the Canary Islands, and Columbus had his brother,
(07:54):
his younger brother, Bartolomul. They created this plan where they said, Okay,
we're gonna go to the Canary Islands off the west
coast of Africa, and then we're gonna sail west. And
according to my calculations, says Columbus, Japan is about three
thousand seven kilometers away. For a quick conversion to anybody
(08:14):
who's not metric system friendly, that is two thousand two.
Just in case you're wondering, that is also incorrect. Uh.
He thought this would be a great way to explore.
He thought this would be a great way to discover
a new, super convenient trade route. But at this time,
(08:37):
very few people knew that there was a huge land
mass two continents between the Canary Islands and Japan. So
they went to get financial support from royalty, and they
pitched their idea to the King of Portugal, and the
King of Portugal says, you guys are crazy, that's nuts.
(08:58):
Let's spend money on real stuff. Yeah, you crazy kids
coming in here with your pipe dreams about discovery. Bright
eyed dreamers, you know, I mean, come on, we got
no time for this here in the core. This is
this is a business. We're running a country. Get out
of here. We have to spend money hunting witches. Yeah exactly.
So then the brothers went to England to try to
talk to the king. It was Henry the seventh time,
(09:18):
and no dice on that one either. Um. They finally
did get an audience with the Queen of Spain, Isabella
the First and that's where you know, we we probably
all remember this part of the story. I didn't know
about the rejections, Ben, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean,
it's kind of like how Abraham Lincoln unsuccessfully tried a
couple of things and then became one of the most
(09:40):
lauded presidents, right, Columbus and co. The Columbus brothers met
with a couple of different rejections because seriously, think how
you would feel if someone's pitching this to you. This
is a crazy plan. They negotiated with the Catholic monarchs
for what two years? Yeah exactly, and then they ultimately
(10:01):
got down to brass tacks. Um. Because Isabella wasn't fully
invested in this idea of exploration, but she did see
the potential um if they discovered something, and they ultimately
decided that if they did discover something, that Columbus would
become an Admiral of the Ocean Sea, viceroy and governor
(10:23):
of all the new lands that he was covered for Spain,
and the ten percent of the proceeds from said new
lands would go to him, and he would also get
a stake in um new endeavors, new exploration endeavors, like
essentially a new enterprise, ten percent of all revenues from
the new lands, ten percent of everything. That's insane, right,
(10:46):
And then he also this is the weird one. This
shows us how the government worked at the time, and
what I would say is one of the great errors
of many monarchies or any nepotistic system, which actually guess
any system after a certain size decays due to nepotism.
He would be given the power to nominate three people
of his choice for any office he liked in the
(11:08):
new government. Didn't matter, their qualifications, didn't matter. They just
got to get that Columbus stamp. And so that is
what led to him setting sail three ships in early August.
Fast forward October twelve, Round two am of the same
year as sailor aboard the Pinta spots land they confirmed
(11:31):
the sighting they shoot off a cannon. This lets Columbus,
who was on the Santa marian No, and they as
Columbus says, he sees the land, he claims it for Spain.
And this means that just claiming that first piece gives
him all that stuff that the Spanish government had promised him,
and he instantly, like in a snap, becomes viceroy and
(11:54):
governor of Hispaniola. He appoints his brothers and his sons
too high positions, and then the exploration turns horrific. On
his second voyage, he took off from Spain with all
(12:16):
of these new titles under his belt, and he took
seventeen ships this time, and you know, an absolute uh
stockpile of supplies to this new world. And Spain being
a very intensely Catholic state, they were all about converting
people to Catholicism, and so that was a big part
(12:39):
of Columbus's mandate. So this is interesting. Read a lot
of books from this time period, or you know, contemporary accounts,
and what we see is that there are some true believers.
Often they are missionaries. Right, there are some true believers
who think that they are saving people's souls even if
(13:04):
it results in their physical torture and death. Well, what
that guy in recent times where he was trying to
go to that island that hadn't been set foot upon
by non indigenous folks and they set in all island. Yeah, yeah,
and we've got an episode of that on a different show. Stuff.
They don't want you to know if you want to
check out this strange and increasingly tragic tale of the
(13:25):
North Centinel ease. Yeah, it's it's similar because although they
are true believers, there are relatively few true believers. There
are a lot of believers in terms of convenience. The
goal here is establishing control resource extraction, particularly taking u
precious metals and if possible, high value trade goods and
(13:50):
extracting them from the native lands, taking them to Europe
and using those to finance the the aims of the
European government, the colonial governments there. So they need this
idea sort of like how a lot of countries nowadays
don't say we're going to war because we want you know,
(14:11):
insert resource here, rare earth metals or um, you know,
shipping rights or oil or something. They say, we're fighting
for an idea. We're fighting for an ideal. We are
saving people. So that's that's why they were like, Okay,
you can go establish a settlement, but anybody you meet
there is not Catholic has to become Catholic because that's
(14:34):
our cover story for doing all these horrible things. Yes,
you must supply us with X number of fresh souls.
And imagine being someone who has like you've lived on
the You've lived here your whole life, right, your family
has lived here for generations. These crazy folks who are
(14:54):
dressed in a very strange fashion, coming from you know,
unrecognizable ships, with all this weird technology, they ask you
bizarre things. Right, do you accept you know, Jesus Christ
is your Lord and savior as as and the Catholic
Church is the one true Church of Jesus Christ. If
(15:18):
you have never heard that and you have no reference point,
you don't understand what's going on. And then additionally, these
people are now saying that they own the place they
just showed up at, and then they force the people
who live there to adhere to these customs that make
you do these strange traditions. You have to you know,
you have to recite words, and those words or prayers,
(15:40):
but you don't know what they mean, and you don't
know why you have to say them. And you do
have to do this because if you refuse or if
you don't understand what's happening, then these forces, these Europeans
feel like they are doing the religiously correct thing by
egg exiling you, selling you into slavery, mutilating you, or
(16:04):
murdering you. We have some challenging, sobering, heartbreaking statistics from
a biography of Columbus called Columbus The Four Voyages from
Lawrence Burgreen. You can find in this book accounts from
people who participated in Columbus expeditions. One Michelle de Caneo,
(16:27):
said that Columbus ordered fifteen hundred men and women seized,
and then of those fifteen hundred, four hundred were let go,
We're set free, five hundred were sent We're going to
be sent to Spain, and another six hundred were to
be enslaved by the Spanish forces remaining on the islands. Yeah,
(16:48):
and then about two five hundred went to Spain died
horrifically in the voyage. From any number of things disease, malnutrition. Um,
and we're thrown into the sea. We have Remember, these
folks had absolutely no concept of what they were being
asked to do, of what Christianity was, of what the
aims of these European folks were who were laying claim
(17:10):
on this place. They had lived and raised their families
and you know, had a whole life and culture and friends.
I mean, it's it's mind boggling. Can you imagine yourself
in that situation, like some invading force that speaks a
language you don't understand, coming and saying, hey, we're gonna
needs you to you know, fall in line and believe
this thing that we tell you to believe, not to
(17:31):
mention the language barrier. I mean, the whole thing just
is very so bring. Yeah, it's a it's a frightening thing.
And soon after the settlement occurs and it's up and running,
the government of Spain starts receiving complaints, not just from
the native people who they probably ignored and if we're
(17:54):
being completely candid, did not really consider them. People are
very very racist. Uh. They get complaints from the colonists,
the colonists, the Spanish people, Spanish individuals who are living
there are complaining about what Columbus and his brothers are doing.
There's an investigation into charges against Columbus. Twenty three colonists testify.
(18:18):
They say the governor is not just treating us terribly,
he's treating native people even worse. And we went at
warn everyone. The next descriptions coming up are graphic, but
we would be remiss if we did not include these.
So if you have any young children listening with you now,
maybe skip ahead for a little bit. So in one
(18:41):
of the statements from one of those twenty three colonists
and individual reports that a man was found guilty of
stealing corn, and Christopher Columbus himself ordered this man to
have his nose and ears cut off and then sold
into slavery. Was that like a thing that they did
commonly in Spain. Was Columbus just kind of a psychopath
(19:01):
that was coming up with the stuff on the fly. Yeah,
I think it was just there being authoritarian because they're
trying to establish their own rule of law. We certainly
know the Spanish Inquisition yielded some of the most creative
and horrifying tortures that history has never seen. So maybe
maybe it was something that he was familiar with. Some
of those torture devices had later been found to be frauds,
(19:23):
but most of them, the really messed uplands are real,
like the Iron Maidens, not historically accurate for that time.
But the other stuff like the rack just branding people
for the heck of it. Another colonists says that there
was a woman who said that Christopher Columbus came from
a low birth rank. And when this person said this,
(19:44):
Columbus's brother ordered the woman to be forced to walk
the streets of Santo Domingo nude. But that wasn't it.
There was one more thing he ordered after she had
to walk around naked. Yeah, he ordered that you have
her tongue cut out. Um. And he Columbus reportedly congratulated
(20:08):
his brother Um on defending their family's good name in
doing this. And you know it goes on. I mean,
there was an Indian attack of about two thousand Indians
and you know again it says them defending their their
territory against these encroachers, and Um Alonzo de Odeja was
(20:30):
one of Columbus's men. He in retribution, Um had him
bring three of the leaders of this revolt to Columbus Um,
who he had publicly beheaded, and he also ordered his
men to day how who's the who's the leader? Was
like one of Columbus is kind of I guess you
could call it like a captain or underlings. Um ordered
(20:52):
him to grab another Indian, bring him in the middle
of the village, similarly in a display like with the woman,
and cut off his ears in retribution for the Indians
not being helpful to help the Spaniards Um and crossing
a river, so literally, you know, punishing them for not
being completely all about you know, just helping them with
(21:12):
whatever they needed in this invasion. Yeah, exactly. And we
do want to note here as well that we are
used when we use the phrase Indian for the group
of people, we're using the phrase that the colonists, right. Also,
Hispaniola is modern day Dominican Republic for anyone who's like,
where is this in the Caribbean, So add to that.
(21:36):
For first of all, I think it's very clear from
this mutilation and this enslavement that Columbus is if adhering
to the letter of his mission to spread Catholicism, he's
certainly not adhering to the laws of the book. He
purports to follow. Right, it's very un christ like. And
(21:57):
you know, I'm not an authority here, but it's very
christ like to do that kind of stuff to people.
And the situation in this new settlement just gets worse
and worse and worse. The European sailors can't get used
to the food that is the common you know, like
the common staples in Hispaniola. Wheat is a staple grain
(22:19):
in a lot of European diets at the time, but
maze or corn is the staple in this area of
the world, and people are becoming ill because they can't
process this. They also get uncontrollable diarrhea and dysentery from
the meat or the protein they're trying to eat. But
they didn't have it near as bad as the native
(22:40):
population because while those guys were getting dysentery and diarrhea,
the native population was exposed for the first time ever
two accidental germ warfare the This is not something that
the Europeans at the time would have been very well
aware of, but they carried measles and smallpox with them
(23:02):
when they got off the ships. They also use sexual
assault on both native men and women, and the government
tacit Lee sanctioned this, you know what I mean, they
didn't pass a law. No one was punished for doing this,
and so the people who weren't dying of measles and
smallpox might contract as sexually transmitted disease, and then these
(23:26):
diseases would spread. You'll see, as reported by History Collection
dot Co that the men were assaulting native populations. If
they assaulted someone who already had a sexually transmitted disease,
they would of course contracted. They would go back to
Europe and they would carry it along. Right, Yes, all
that is absolutely true. Um most you know, these these
(23:48):
mutilations and these tortures, I mean that was more or
less sanctioned. I mean not necessarily, its sanctioned directly, but
it was the kinds of things that the government of
Spain would have been comfortable doing. Two heretics, shall we say, right,
So it was it was once we really get into
the really nasty territory of these sexual assaults and this
(24:12):
kind of just utter in humanity. Um. I mean, essentially
Columbus and his men became raping and pillaging monsters, you know,
and that word of this behavior made it back to Spain.
Violence is the only rule of law in Hispaniola at
(24:36):
the time, right, and people are starving, infrastructures breaking down. Uh,
Columbus is leader in absentia because he's traveling more and more.
He's he's going on a third voyage and in Columbus
sends a letter to the King and the Queen of
Spain and says, I need some help governing this. But
(24:58):
his request came is far too late, because as mentioned earlier,
the rulers of Spain already got word of the terrible
things that are happening. Ferdinand and Isabella by hundred have
already heard about what's going on, and so they remove
the Columbus family from their governmental positions and they say, hey,
(25:20):
you have to get back to Spain. Stop mucking about.
And as soon as the Columbus gang, I will use
gang because they were committing criminal acts. As soon as
the gang arrives, they're thrown in prison. What happens to
Columbus specifically, Yeah, I mean all of those titles that
we talked about the Columbus held so dear that were
(25:41):
the reward for his discoveries. He was stripped of those completely.
His rank of admiral of the ocean, sea gone, viceroy
governorship gone, and he was denied any more claim on
this new enterprise as points were gone. Uh. Ferdinand um
(26:02):
released his men eventually. I think they were in prison
for about six weeks. But Columbus did petition the king
to let him do one more voyage to the New World,
which was granted. Maybe it's kind of like a consolation
prize or let the guy have his dignity. I don't know,
shot a redemption maybe, I don't know. But let's also
point out that none of those people were assaulted sexually.
(26:26):
None of them lost their limbs, their noses, or their ears. No,
it was an utter slap on the wrist, barely a
brush on the wrist. Yeah. Um. So he did make
that final voyage in April of fifteen o two, um,
presumably to apologize to everybody. No, No, that didn't happen. Yeah.
I don't think he was on like his third step
of whatever the explorer version of a A is now.
(26:48):
I don't think so either. Um. And it was super treacherous.
He was washed ashore into what is now Jamaica and
a tropical storm. Um. And he was stuck there for
a year, and he when he and his crew were
rescued and he had gotten He's getting older at this point,
and he had really bad arthritis that was caused by surprise, surprise,
(27:12):
come up and for columbus es, sexually transmitted disease or
a bacterial infection. History isn't sure, but he was also
bleeding from his eyes. He could barely move. He returns
to Spain. He dies there in fifteen oh four, and
Spanish administrators record so much about his life and his voyages.
(27:35):
He did not single handedly slaughter thousands of native inhabitants. Uh.
He is credited still with being the first European to
successfully navigate the Atlantic, even though he's completely wrong about
where he was going and he didn't exactly know where
in the world he was when he arrived. It's seen
as um the thing that opened the door for other explorers.
(27:59):
And so he didn't single handedly physically kill tons and
tons of people, but through his actions both as governor
and as an explorer, he created a chain of events
that doomed entire worlds of people to death at the
at the hands of conquistadors. And what did they what
(28:22):
did they get? What did the Spanish people get? It?
Didn't enrich the country beyond its wildest dreams or anything.
But um, there's a great article in Jacobin that refers
to it as giving them a little bit of an edge. Um.
It gave them money to continue to hire mercenaries for
many of these wars that they had to fight, and
essentially allowed them to kind of hold on to what
(28:45):
they had in terms of their monarchy. But the population suffered, right,
I mean people were starving in the streets, that the
class divide was was wider and wider. The rich kept
getting richer and the poor kept getting poor. I mean
the tale as old as time. Right. Un Fortunately, until
we change, until we change things, right, Yes, it is true.
(29:06):
Out of all this, this tragedy, this heartbreak, this this
wanton cruelty and atrocity. Uh, the end goals of the
Spanish Empire also didn't actually work out. And that is
why people have such tremendous problems with the concept of
(29:27):
celebrating Christopher Columbus. We can also laundry lists really quick.
Some other disturbing things about Columbus. He forced the native
population to collect gold for him or die. Every everybody
over what, Yeah, it's like twelve or fourteen to work.
I think around fifty thousand Native people committed mass suicide
(29:49):
rather than dealing with the Spanish in any way. Yeah,
they would destroy the food they had stored up so
that no one could eat it. They're they're practicing real
scorched earth stuff, jumping off of cliffs, poisoning themselves with roots,
starving themselves to death, and a lot. And this came
because of this impossible requirement to deliver these tributes of gold.
(30:11):
And they they really thought to die as I wish
to live, is better than to be forced into this
terrible position by these strange people. Within less than sixty
years after Christopher Columbus's first voyage, only five hundred out
(30:31):
of three hundred thousand Native people remained in Hispaniola. This
again comes from the work of Burgreen, and it is
a little bit of gu estimation, but in fourteen two
we can guess that about three hundred thousand inhabitants between
four a third have died, half due to mass suicide
(30:53):
fifteen o eight populations down to sixty thousand. Not to
mention the wide practice of sexual slavery. I'm sex trafficking. Um.
I believe nine and ten year old girls um under
Columbus in this settlement were sold into sexual slavery. Disgusting. Yeah,
(31:13):
it's insane. Uh. And then many native slaves um were
just summarily executed when they couldn't find anyone to reunite
them with. And I mean, you know, the Spanish essentially
treated many of these slaves just like just completely disposable um.
When they were kind of transporting them chained together like
(31:36):
in a chain gang with shackles around their neck. Rather
than bother untying them or unchaining them, they would just
execute them and cut their heads off exactly. Yeah, and
this is just very high level. Look, but with all
this in consideration, we can see why it is uh
disturbing to sanitize these historical events and then to have
(31:58):
them ignored. You're in an annual celebration, as you mentioned,
The first recorded Columbus celebration takes place in sev New
York City, but the first official holiday is in eighteen two.
It finds traction at state levels. Eventually, Columbus Day is
observed by the US as a whole. In nineteen thirty four.
(32:20):
Thirty four years after that, Lyndon B. Johnson signs the
Uniform Holiday bill, and this makes Columbus Day a federal holiday.
A lot of cities in this country have decided to
rename Columbus Day by calling it Indigenous People's Day. Some
states take a different tack to Hawaii calls it Discoverers
(32:44):
Day and Recognition of the Polynesian discoverers of the Hawaiian Islands. Uh.
And they say, provided that this day is not and
shall not be construed to be a state holiday. Uh.
And then there's a cool article that we found on
mental flaws. This might end on a little up note
for so I think we need it. Yeah, I think
we need it. Uh. So, so we found in school
(33:04):
article on mental flaws by Shaughnessy Pharaoh. Ten alternatives to
Columbus Days celebrated around the country, and some are pretty cool.
There's a teaching and friendship dance. The White Horse Creek
Council over in Denver is a preservation society for indigenous culture,
and they have been hosting this mini pow wow teaching
(33:25):
and friendship dance to sort of give Native people of
this part of the world the front seat in these stories. Yeah.
And again back to the whole you know, Italian American
community debate that is still very much a thing. I
found an article from the New York Times with the
headline why some Italian Americans still fiercely defend Columbus Day. Um,
(33:49):
it is a divisive issue. I mean, we know that
many folks that are held up as cultural heroes have
checkered path uts. I mean that's not unusual. But man,
given what we know about Columbus and his men and
the absolute war crimes atrocities that they committed, I don't
(34:11):
fully understand, um, why anyone would want to hold this
guy up. And it's not about being Italian. It's just
about you know, this legacy is left behind, and you
gotta wonder, given what we know, Um, how did Columbus
get his own holiday in the first place, especially when
other folks like Amerigo Vespucci and Francisco Pizzarro were more popular, Um,
(34:35):
and kind of knew where they were going. Uh. There's
a New York Times article that goes into the history
of the holiday. And here's a quote from from this article.
As the American colonies formed an identity separate from their
English roots, colonists look to figures like the quote appointed
of God Columbus to symbolize their ideals. By the time
(34:57):
of the Revolution, writes John Noble, will Ford Columbus had
been transmuted into a national icon, a hero second only
to George Washington. So it's just a good example of
like the way, it's very easy to romanticize people and
overlook horrible things they've done if you can hold them
up as some kind of symbol or use them as
a stand in for your own hopes and dreams and ideals.
(35:19):
And going back to alternative celebrations here, I'd like to
point out for anybody in the l A area, there's
a really cool thing called the Life Before Columbus Festival.
There's also the Indigenous People's Day Music and Art Showcase.
They're in St. Paul, Minnesota, the Santa Fe Indigenous People's
Day Celebration, and Ashland, Oregon's De Colonizations Celebration. I'd love
(35:45):
to hear the experience of everyone who's visited one of
these celebrations or participated in them. And at this point,
it seems like the future of Columbus Day is not
looking particular really bright for Christopher Columbus right it looks
like the holiday will transform into something that's a little
(36:08):
more honest and a little less sanitized. And the thing
about history is that, you know, history is a conversation.
It's not a dead thing. It's not some old, dusty tome. Uh.
And we as people with the benefit of retrospect, must
work together. It must work ardently to find the truth.
Even when the truth is ugly, it's still more valuable,
(36:31):
you know what I mean. I do know exactly what
you mean. And it's a good thing to see the
tide turning, in my opinion, you know, against this kind
of false history of holding up this this gentleman that
clearly didn't really deserve it, and to kind of flip
it and subvert it and make it more about being
aware of indigenous people, um, who often don't get a
fair shake and who have a history of having things
(36:53):
kind of just taken out from under them. Um. I
think that's an important thing to remember. And so with
that doing an this episode should be out before Columbus Day.
And if you have any friends who are very very
pro Columbus, why not give this a give this a play,
recommend this, give it to a first spin, give him
(37:13):
a downer moment and uh, and let us know how
it works out. Thank you so much for tuning in.
Thank you to our guest super producer j J. Pass
Way j J thumbs up, thumbs down, strong thumb hard
to feel good after that episode tough. It's toughy. Thanks also,
of course, as always to our super producer there in Spirit,
(37:35):
Casey pegram a k a Us Bush is with us always.
Thanks to Alex Williams who can post our theme reussys
she has a gay Losier and Ryan Barrish. Thanks to
Christopher Hasciotis. Thanks to Eaves, Jeff Coat, thanks to you
know What. Thanks thanks to you know well Man. Thanks
to you Man. Thanks for not being a megalomaniacal, genocidal maniac.
(37:57):
I mean, you know history is full of them. I'm
trying to do something for it. You are succeeding, my friend.
We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from
(38:25):
my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous history as a production of I Heart Radio. Here's
(00:27):
a golden oldie many of us will instantly remember in
four d and nine two Columbus sailed the Ocean blue.
He had three ships and left from Spain. He sailed
through sunshine, wind and rain, and it goes on and
on and on. It's not terribly historically accurate. It's about
(00:47):
a guy named Christopher Columbus, or at least that's how
we say the name of Cristobal Cologne in English. Hi,
I'm ben Ben. I know this isn't about Chris Columbus,
who directed the Home Alone movies. This is no, this
is not that guy succeeded despite the nominative determinism working
against him. Uh. And you know, uh, we've got to
(01:09):
say this is this somewhat of a timely episode. The
day that is sometimes called Indigenous People's Days, sometimes called
Columbus Day is upon us. You know, it's coming up
in a few weeks. Have you ever seen that episode
of the Sopranos Um where uh, Tony and the crew
get all up in arms with the Native American population
(01:31):
in New Jersey. Um, kind of arguing about Columbus Day
and the Columbus Day Parade. No I was established earlier.
I haven't seen the sopranis. Oh that's right. Have we
talked about this. I didn't remember. It's just it's such
a good show. Um, but it is a big deal
in the Italian community. Uh. Columbus has still kind of
looked at as a bit of a as a bit
of a hero in certain certain circles. And it's a
(01:53):
very controversial thing because the idea of calling it Indigenous
People's Day to folks who still think Columbus was an
okay guy. Um, that's they think that's like overly PC
or it's sort of whitewashing history or whatever, and they
don't dig. And that's the episode of the club the
spranis about. Um. But yeah, it turns out Colomas not
a particularly great guy. No. No. Now, in certain circles,
(02:17):
of course, all sorts of historical figures are are lauded,
right and looked up to uh figure that we see
as incredibly heroic. And this certain circle of ours, fellow listeners,
is our super producer Casey Pegram, who in his absence,
has bequeathed it's a joke for everyone to listen to
(02:39):
the last episode bequeathed us the wonderful presence of our
guest super producer j J. Pauseway, so let's give it
up for him, j J. How you doing? Okay? That's
a thumbs up from j J. We know that history
is much more complicated than the tales we teach to
school children. And if you who are an eighties or
(03:01):
nineties baby, as they're called here in the US, then
at least in elementary school, you probably got a very
sanitized version of the the explorations of Christopher Columbus. And
on the second Monday of every October this day occurs
Columbus Day Indigenous People's Day. But in recent decades, especially
(03:23):
the last decade or so, more and more historians have
brought to the mainstream the problematic life and work of
this explorer, ultimately asking should we treat him as a hero?
It turns out that this controversy is not new. In fact,
(03:44):
this controversy over whether Columbus was a villain or a
hero dates all the way back to the time of
the Spanish monarchy, which is crazy. It is crazy. And
just to backtrack really quickly, something I saw at the
top of the show, I just wanted to clarify, um,
Columbus Day is often kind of enshrined in the Italian
American community as sort of a celebration of their own heritage,
(04:06):
and many in that community do still defend it to
this day, and that is kind of what that Sopranos
episode is about. But it goes all the way back
to New York City in eighteen sixty six when the
first Columbus Day celebration took place. So obviously everybody in
the Italian American community doesn't fiercely defend Columbus Day, but
(04:27):
it is very much still an ongoing point of contention.
I see, yeah, and that's because, uh, Columbus is Italian.
He was born in the Republic of Genoa in fourteen
fifty one, and he grew up along the Italian coast
in the northwest. When he was ten years old, he
started working on ships. He was, you know, probably like
(04:49):
a cabin boy something like that, transporting goods from the
Iberian Peninsula all the way up to Ireland. Eventually he
settles down in Lisbon and he continues to work as
a shipper and importer. He marries, he has a kid.
He learns to speak several languages. He was a polyglot.
He spoke Latin, Portuguese and Castilian, and he was self taught. Right,
(05:15):
he didn't obtain a formal education. Not as big a
deal then as it is now. Right. He uh, He
read astronomy, geography, history, and he loved reading the stories
of travelers like Marco Polo. And he came up at
a time when exploration was a big deal on the
idea of whether it be expansion or just sort of
going venturing out into the world. Because of the storied
(05:38):
and history of folks like Marco Polo, trade by shipping
roots was a huge deal. Um. But in fourteen fifty three,
that is when Constantinople was defeated, it was overtaken by
the Ottoman Turks, and some of these trade routes that
had been you know, a breeze became very dangerous to Europeans,
(06:01):
specifically Christian Europeans. And these roots lead to Asia and
the Silk Road for trading of spices and fabrics and
all kinds of different goods that you just couldn't get
in Europe. Um. So it became a very important time
to find friendlier routes to Asia, whether by sea or
(06:22):
by land. Um. And that is when the King of
Portugal's astronomer in fourteen seventy decided that it would be
a smart move to go west, young man, to the
Iberian Peninsula, where you could kind of reinvigorate some of
this trade with Asia exactly exactly. And they weren't they
(06:42):
weren't sure what they would find. But a lot of
this stuff you'll hear, especially as a child, about sailing
or circuit navigating the globe. We're attempting to sail long
distances across the seas is going to be sort of simplified.
History shows us that knowledge of world geography developed unevenly
(07:05):
so some regions, in some countries, some communities knew more
about the world around us in the world over the
edges of the map than others did. But people wanted
to search for these new trade routes. This is something
that later our species would call the Age of Discovery.
In European explorer Bartolomuldas reaches the Cape of Good Hope
(07:32):
that's at the southern tip of the African continent. And
although this opened up a new area of focus for
a lot of explorers, Columbus and his brother, who also
lived in Lisbon remained strongly committed to this idea of
sailing west from the Canary Islands, and Columbus had his brother,
(07:54):
his younger brother, Bartolomul. They created this plan where they said, Okay,
we're gonna go to the Canary Islands off the west
coast of Africa, and then we're gonna sail west. And
according to my calculations, says Columbus, Japan is about three
thousand seven kilometers away. For a quick conversion to anybody
(08:14):
who's not metric system friendly, that is two thousand two.
Just in case you're wondering, that is also incorrect. Uh.
He thought this would be a great way to explore.
He thought this would be a great way to discover
a new, super convenient trade route. But at this time,
(08:37):
very few people knew that there was a huge land
mass two continents between the Canary Islands and Japan. So
they went to get financial support from royalty, and they
pitched their idea to the King of Portugal, and the
King of Portugal says, you guys are crazy, that's nuts.
(08:58):
Let's spend money on real stuff. Yeah, you crazy kids
coming in here with your pipe dreams about discovery. Bright
eyed dreamers, you know, I mean, come on, we got
no time for this here in the core. This is
this is a business. We're running a country. Get out
of here. We have to spend money hunting witches. Yeah exactly.
So then the brothers went to England to try to
talk to the king. It was Henry the seventh time,
(09:18):
and no dice on that one either. Um. They finally
did get an audience with the Queen of Spain, Isabella
the First and that's where you know, we we probably
all remember this part of the story. I didn't know
about the rejections, Ben, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean,
it's kind of like how Abraham Lincoln unsuccessfully tried a
couple of things and then became one of the most
(09:40):
lauded presidents, right, Columbus and co. The Columbus brothers met
with a couple of different rejections because seriously, think how
you would feel if someone's pitching this to you. This
is a crazy plan. They negotiated with the Catholic monarchs
for what two years? Yeah exactly, and then they ultimately
(10:01):
got down to brass tacks. Um. Because Isabella wasn't fully
invested in this idea of exploration, but she did see
the potential um if they discovered something, and they ultimately
decided that if they did discover something, that Columbus would
become an Admiral of the Ocean Sea, viceroy and governor
(10:23):
of all the new lands that he was covered for Spain,
and the ten percent of the proceeds from said new
lands would go to him, and he would also get
a stake in um new endeavors, new exploration endeavors, like
essentially a new enterprise, ten percent of all revenues from
the new lands, ten percent of everything. That's insane, right,
(10:46):
And then he also this is the weird one. This
shows us how the government worked at the time, and
what I would say is one of the great errors
of many monarchies or any nepotistic system, which actually guess
any system after a certain size decays due to nepotism.
He would be given the power to nominate three people
of his choice for any office he liked in the
(11:08):
new government. Didn't matter, their qualifications, didn't matter. They just
got to get that Columbus stamp. And so that is
what led to him setting sail three ships in early August.
Fast forward October twelve, Round two am of the same
year as sailor aboard the Pinta spots land they confirmed
(11:31):
the sighting they shoot off a cannon. This lets Columbus,
who was on the Santa marian No, and they as
Columbus says, he sees the land, he claims it for Spain.
And this means that just claiming that first piece gives
him all that stuff that the Spanish government had promised him,
and he instantly, like in a snap, becomes viceroy and
(11:54):
governor of Hispaniola. He appoints his brothers and his sons
too high positions, and then the exploration turns horrific. On
his second voyage, he took off from Spain with all
(12:16):
of these new titles under his belt, and he took
seventeen ships this time, and you know, an absolute uh
stockpile of supplies to this new world. And Spain being
a very intensely Catholic state, they were all about converting
people to Catholicism, and so that was a big part
(12:39):
of Columbus's mandate. So this is interesting. Read a lot
of books from this time period, or you know, contemporary accounts,
and what we see is that there are some true believers.
Often they are missionaries. Right, there are some true believers
who think that they are saving people's souls even if
(13:04):
it results in their physical torture and death. Well, what
that guy in recent times where he was trying to
go to that island that hadn't been set foot upon
by non indigenous folks and they set in all island. Yeah, yeah,
and we've got an episode of that on a different show. Stuff.
They don't want you to know if you want to
check out this strange and increasingly tragic tale of the
(13:25):
North Centinel ease. Yeah, it's it's similar because although they
are true believers, there are relatively few true believers. There
are a lot of believers in terms of convenience. The
goal here is establishing control resource extraction, particularly taking u
precious metals and if possible, high value trade goods and
(13:50):
extracting them from the native lands, taking them to Europe
and using those to finance the the aims of the
European government, the colonial governments there. So they need this
idea sort of like how a lot of countries nowadays
don't say we're going to war because we want you know,
(14:11):
insert resource here, rare earth metals or um, you know,
shipping rights or oil or something. They say, we're fighting
for an idea. We're fighting for an ideal. We are
saving people. So that's that's why they were like, Okay,
you can go establish a settlement, but anybody you meet
there is not Catholic has to become Catholic because that's
(14:34):
our cover story for doing all these horrible things. Yes,
you must supply us with X number of fresh souls.
And imagine being someone who has like you've lived on
the You've lived here your whole life, right, your family
has lived here for generations. These crazy folks who are
(14:54):
dressed in a very strange fashion, coming from you know,
unrecognizable ships, with all this weird technology, they ask you
bizarre things. Right, do you accept you know, Jesus Christ
is your Lord and savior as as and the Catholic
Church is the one true Church of Jesus Christ. If
(15:18):
you have never heard that and you have no reference point,
you don't understand what's going on. And then additionally, these
people are now saying that they own the place they
just showed up at, and then they force the people
who live there to adhere to these customs that make
you do these strange traditions. You have to you know,
you have to recite words, and those words or prayers,
(15:40):
but you don't know what they mean, and you don't
know why you have to say them. And you do
have to do this because if you refuse or if
you don't understand what's happening, then these forces, these Europeans
feel like they are doing the religiously correct thing by
egg exiling you, selling you into slavery, mutilating you, or
(16:04):
murdering you. We have some challenging, sobering, heartbreaking statistics from
a biography of Columbus called Columbus The Four Voyages from
Lawrence Burgreen. You can find in this book accounts from
people who participated in Columbus expeditions. One Michelle de Caneo,
(16:27):
said that Columbus ordered fifteen hundred men and women seized,
and then of those fifteen hundred, four hundred were let go,
We're set free, five hundred were sent We're going to
be sent to Spain, and another six hundred were to
be enslaved by the Spanish forces remaining on the islands. Yeah,
(16:48):
and then about two five hundred went to Spain died
horrifically in the voyage. From any number of things disease, malnutrition. Um,
and we're thrown into the sea. We have Remember, these
folks had absolutely no concept of what they were being
asked to do, of what Christianity was, of what the
aims of these European folks were who were laying claim
(17:10):
on this place. They had lived and raised their families
and you know, had a whole life and culture and friends.
I mean, it's it's mind boggling. Can you imagine yourself
in that situation, like some invading force that speaks a
language you don't understand, coming and saying, hey, we're gonna
needs you to you know, fall in line and believe
this thing that we tell you to believe, not to
(17:31):
mention the language barrier. I mean, the whole thing just
is very so bring. Yeah, it's a it's a frightening thing.
And soon after the settlement occurs and it's up and running,
the government of Spain starts receiving complaints, not just from
the native people who they probably ignored and if we're
(17:54):
being completely candid, did not really consider them. People are
very very racist. Uh. They get complaints from the colonists,
the colonists, the Spanish people, Spanish individuals who are living
there are complaining about what Columbus and his brothers are doing.
There's an investigation into charges against Columbus. Twenty three colonists testify.
(18:18):
They say the governor is not just treating us terribly,
he's treating native people even worse. And we went at
warn everyone. The next descriptions coming up are graphic, but
we would be remiss if we did not include these.
So if you have any young children listening with you now,
maybe skip ahead for a little bit. So in one
(18:41):
of the statements from one of those twenty three colonists
and individual reports that a man was found guilty of
stealing corn, and Christopher Columbus himself ordered this man to
have his nose and ears cut off and then sold
into slavery. Was that like a thing that they did
commonly in Spain. Was Columbus just kind of a psychopath
(19:01):
that was coming up with the stuff on the fly. Yeah,
I think it was just there being authoritarian because they're
trying to establish their own rule of law. We certainly
know the Spanish Inquisition yielded some of the most creative
and horrifying tortures that history has never seen. So maybe
maybe it was something that he was familiar with. Some
of those torture devices had later been found to be frauds,
(19:23):
but most of them, the really messed uplands are real,
like the Iron Maidens, not historically accurate for that time.
But the other stuff like the rack just branding people
for the heck of it. Another colonists says that there
was a woman who said that Christopher Columbus came from
a low birth rank. And when this person said this,
(19:44):
Columbus's brother ordered the woman to be forced to walk
the streets of Santo Domingo nude. But that wasn't it.
There was one more thing he ordered after she had
to walk around naked. Yeah, he ordered that you have
her tongue cut out. Um. And he Columbus reportedly congratulated
(20:08):
his brother Um on defending their family's good name in
doing this. And you know it goes on. I mean,
there was an Indian attack of about two thousand Indians
and you know again it says them defending their their
territory against these encroachers, and Um Alonzo de Odeja was
(20:30):
one of Columbus's men. He in retribution, Um had him
bring three of the leaders of this revolt to Columbus Um,
who he had publicly beheaded, and he also ordered his
men to day how who's the who's the leader? Was
like one of Columbus is kind of I guess you
could call it like a captain or underlings. Um ordered
(20:52):
him to grab another Indian, bring him in the middle
of the village, similarly in a display like with the woman,
and cut off his ears in retribution for the Indians
not being helpful to help the Spaniards Um and crossing
a river, so literally, you know, punishing them for not
being completely all about you know, just helping them with
(21:12):
whatever they needed in this invasion. Yeah, exactly. And we
do want to note here as well that we are
used when we use the phrase Indian for the group
of people, we're using the phrase that the colonists, right. Also,
Hispaniola is modern day Dominican Republic for anyone who's like,
where is this in the Caribbean, So add to that.
(21:36):
For first of all, I think it's very clear from
this mutilation and this enslavement that Columbus is if adhering
to the letter of his mission to spread Catholicism, he's
certainly not adhering to the laws of the book. He
purports to follow. Right, it's very un christ like. And
(21:57):
you know, I'm not an authority here, but it's very
christ like to do that kind of stuff to people.
And the situation in this new settlement just gets worse
and worse and worse. The European sailors can't get used
to the food that is the common you know, like
the common staples in Hispaniola. Wheat is a staple grain
(22:19):
in a lot of European diets at the time, but
maze or corn is the staple in this area of
the world, and people are becoming ill because they can't
process this. They also get uncontrollable diarrhea and dysentery from
the meat or the protein they're trying to eat. But
they didn't have it near as bad as the native
(22:40):
population because while those guys were getting dysentery and diarrhea,
the native population was exposed for the first time ever
two accidental germ warfare the This is not something that
the Europeans at the time would have been very well
aware of, but they carried measles and smallpox with them
(23:02):
when they got off the ships. They also use sexual
assault on both native men and women, and the government
tacit Lee sanctioned this, you know what I mean, they
didn't pass a law. No one was punished for doing this,
and so the people who weren't dying of measles and
smallpox might contract as sexually transmitted disease, and then these
(23:26):
diseases would spread. You'll see, as reported by History Collection
dot Co that the men were assaulting native populations. If
they assaulted someone who already had a sexually transmitted disease,
they would of course contracted. They would go back to
Europe and they would carry it along. Right, Yes, all
that is absolutely true. Um most you know, these these
(23:48):
mutilations and these tortures, I mean that was more or
less sanctioned. I mean not necessarily, its sanctioned directly, but
it was the kinds of things that the government of
Spain would have been comfortable doing. Two heretics, shall we say, right,
So it was it was once we really get into
the really nasty territory of these sexual assaults and this
(24:12):
kind of just utter in humanity. Um. I mean, essentially
Columbus and his men became raping and pillaging monsters, you know,
and that word of this behavior made it back to Spain.
Violence is the only rule of law in Hispaniola at
(24:36):
the time, right, and people are starving, infrastructures breaking down. Uh,
Columbus is leader in absentia because he's traveling more and more.
He's he's going on a third voyage and in Columbus
sends a letter to the King and the Queen of
Spain and says, I need some help governing this. But
(24:58):
his request came is far too late, because as mentioned earlier,
the rulers of Spain already got word of the terrible
things that are happening. Ferdinand and Isabella by hundred have
already heard about what's going on, and so they remove
the Columbus family from their governmental positions and they say, hey,
(25:20):
you have to get back to Spain. Stop mucking about.
And as soon as the Columbus gang, I will use
gang because they were committing criminal acts. As soon as
the gang arrives, they're thrown in prison. What happens to
Columbus specifically, Yeah, I mean all of those titles that
we talked about the Columbus held so dear that were
(25:41):
the reward for his discoveries. He was stripped of those completely.
His rank of admiral of the ocean, sea gone, viceroy
governorship gone, and he was denied any more claim on
this new enterprise as points were gone. Uh. Ferdinand um
(26:02):
released his men eventually. I think they were in prison
for about six weeks. But Columbus did petition the king
to let him do one more voyage to the New World,
which was granted. Maybe it's kind of like a consolation
prize or let the guy have his dignity. I don't know,
shot a redemption maybe, I don't know. But let's also
point out that none of those people were assaulted sexually.
(26:26):
None of them lost their limbs, their noses, or their ears. No,
it was an utter slap on the wrist, barely a
brush on the wrist. Yeah. Um. So he did make
that final voyage in April of fifteen o two, um,
presumably to apologize to everybody. No, No, that didn't happen. Yeah.
I don't think he was on like his third step
of whatever the explorer version of a A is now.
(26:48):
I don't think so either. Um. And it was super treacherous.
He was washed ashore into what is now Jamaica and
a tropical storm. Um. And he was stuck there for
a year, and he when he and his crew were
rescued and he had gotten He's getting older at this point,
and he had really bad arthritis that was caused by surprise, surprise,
(27:12):
come up and for columbus es, sexually transmitted disease or
a bacterial infection. History isn't sure, but he was also
bleeding from his eyes. He could barely move. He returns
to Spain. He dies there in fifteen oh four, and
Spanish administrators record so much about his life and his voyages.
(27:35):
He did not single handedly slaughter thousands of native inhabitants. Uh.
He is credited still with being the first European to
successfully navigate the Atlantic, even though he's completely wrong about
where he was going and he didn't exactly know where
in the world he was when he arrived. It's seen
as um the thing that opened the door for other explorers.
(27:59):
And so he didn't single handedly physically kill tons and
tons of people, but through his actions both as governor
and as an explorer, he created a chain of events
that doomed entire worlds of people to death at the
at the hands of conquistadors. And what did they what
(28:22):
did they get? What did the Spanish people get? It?
Didn't enrich the country beyond its wildest dreams or anything.
But um, there's a great article in Jacobin that refers
to it as giving them a little bit of an edge. Um.
It gave them money to continue to hire mercenaries for
many of these wars that they had to fight, and
essentially allowed them to kind of hold on to what
(28:45):
they had in terms of their monarchy. But the population suffered, right,
I mean people were starving in the streets, that the
class divide was was wider and wider. The rich kept
getting richer and the poor kept getting poor. I mean
the tale as old as time. Right. Un Fortunately, until
we change, until we change things, right, Yes, it is true.
(29:06):
Out of all this, this tragedy, this heartbreak, this this
wanton cruelty and atrocity. Uh, the end goals of the
Spanish Empire also didn't actually work out. And that is
why people have such tremendous problems with the concept of
(29:27):
celebrating Christopher Columbus. We can also laundry lists really quick.
Some other disturbing things about Columbus. He forced the native
population to collect gold for him or die. Every everybody
over what, Yeah, it's like twelve or fourteen to work.
I think around fifty thousand Native people committed mass suicide
(29:49):
rather than dealing with the Spanish in any way. Yeah,
they would destroy the food they had stored up so
that no one could eat it. They're they're practicing real
scorched earth stuff, jumping off of cliffs, poisoning themselves with roots,
starving themselves to death, and a lot. And this came
because of this impossible requirement to deliver these tributes of gold.
(30:11):
And they they really thought to die as I wish
to live, is better than to be forced into this
terrible position by these strange people. Within less than sixty
years after Christopher Columbus's first voyage, only five hundred out
(30:31):
of three hundred thousand Native people remained in Hispaniola. This
again comes from the work of Burgreen, and it is
a little bit of gu estimation, but in fourteen two
we can guess that about three hundred thousand inhabitants between
four a third have died, half due to mass suicide
(30:53):
fifteen o eight populations down to sixty thousand. Not to
mention the wide practice of sexual slavery. I'm sex trafficking. Um.
I believe nine and ten year old girls um under
Columbus in this settlement were sold into sexual slavery. Disgusting. Yeah,
(31:13):
it's insane. Uh. And then many native slaves um were
just summarily executed when they couldn't find anyone to reunite
them with. And I mean, you know, the Spanish essentially
treated many of these slaves just like just completely disposable um.
When they were kind of transporting them chained together like
(31:36):
in a chain gang with shackles around their neck. Rather
than bother untying them or unchaining them, they would just
execute them and cut their heads off exactly. Yeah, and
this is just very high level. Look, but with all
this in consideration, we can see why it is uh
disturbing to sanitize these historical events and then to have
(31:58):
them ignored. You're in an annual celebration, as you mentioned,
The first recorded Columbus celebration takes place in sev New
York City, but the first official holiday is in eighteen two.
It finds traction at state levels. Eventually, Columbus Day is
observed by the US as a whole. In nineteen thirty four.
(32:20):
Thirty four years after that, Lyndon B. Johnson signs the
Uniform Holiday bill, and this makes Columbus Day a federal holiday.
A lot of cities in this country have decided to
rename Columbus Day by calling it Indigenous People's Day. Some
states take a different tack to Hawaii calls it Discoverers
(32:44):
Day and Recognition of the Polynesian discoverers of the Hawaiian Islands. Uh.
And they say, provided that this day is not and
shall not be construed to be a state holiday. Uh.
And then there's a cool article that we found on
mental flaws. This might end on a little up note
for so I think we need it. Yeah, I think
we need it. Uh. So, so we found in school
(33:04):
article on mental flaws by Shaughnessy Pharaoh. Ten alternatives to
Columbus Days celebrated around the country, and some are pretty cool.
There's a teaching and friendship dance. The White Horse Creek
Council over in Denver is a preservation society for indigenous culture,
and they have been hosting this mini pow wow teaching
(33:25):
and friendship dance to sort of give Native people of
this part of the world the front seat in these stories. Yeah.
And again back to the whole you know, Italian American
community debate that is still very much a thing. I
found an article from the New York Times with the
headline why some Italian Americans still fiercely defend Columbus Day. Um,
(33:49):
it is a divisive issue. I mean, we know that
many folks that are held up as cultural heroes have
checkered path uts. I mean that's not unusual. But man,
given what we know about Columbus and his men and
the absolute war crimes atrocities that they committed, I don't
(34:11):
fully understand, um, why anyone would want to hold this
guy up. And it's not about being Italian. It's just
about you know, this legacy is left behind, and you
gotta wonder, given what we know, Um, how did Columbus
get his own holiday in the first place, especially when
other folks like Amerigo Vespucci and Francisco Pizzarro were more popular, Um,
(34:35):
and kind of knew where they were going. Uh. There's
a New York Times article that goes into the history
of the holiday. And here's a quote from from this article.
As the American colonies formed an identity separate from their
English roots, colonists look to figures like the quote appointed
of God Columbus to symbolize their ideals. By the time
(34:57):
of the Revolution, writes John Noble, will Ford Columbus had
been transmuted into a national icon, a hero second only
to George Washington. So it's just a good example of
like the way, it's very easy to romanticize people and
overlook horrible things they've done if you can hold them
up as some kind of symbol or use them as
a stand in for your own hopes and dreams and ideals.
(35:19):
And going back to alternative celebrations here, I'd like to
point out for anybody in the l A area, there's
a really cool thing called the Life Before Columbus Festival.
There's also the Indigenous People's Day Music and Art Showcase.
They're in St. Paul, Minnesota, the Santa Fe Indigenous People's
Day Celebration, and Ashland, Oregon's De Colonizations Celebration. I'd love
(35:45):
to hear the experience of everyone who's visited one of
these celebrations or participated in them. And at this point,
it seems like the future of Columbus Day is not
looking particular really bright for Christopher Columbus right it looks
like the holiday will transform into something that's a little
(36:08):
more honest and a little less sanitized. And the thing
about history is that, you know, history is a conversation.
It's not a dead thing. It's not some old, dusty tome. Uh.
And we as people with the benefit of retrospect, must
work together. It must work ardently to find the truth.
Even when the truth is ugly, it's still more valuable,
(36:31):
you know what I mean. I do know exactly what
you mean. And it's a good thing to see the
tide turning, in my opinion, you know, against this kind
of false history of holding up this this gentleman that
clearly didn't really deserve it, and to kind of flip
it and subvert it and make it more about being
aware of indigenous people, um, who often don't get a
fair shake and who have a history of having things
(36:53):
kind of just taken out from under them. Um. I
think that's an important thing to remember. And so with
that doing an this episode should be out before Columbus Day.
And if you have any friends who are very very
pro Columbus, why not give this a give this a play,
recommend this, give it to a first spin, give him
(37:13):
a downer moment and uh, and let us know how
it works out. Thank you so much for tuning in.
Thank you to our guest super producer j J. Pass
Way j J thumbs up, thumbs down, strong thumb hard
to feel good after that episode tough. It's toughy. Thanks also,
of course, as always to our super producer there in Spirit,
(37:35):
Casey pegram a k a Us Bush is with us always.
Thanks to Alex Williams who can post our theme reussys
she has a gay Losier and Ryan Barrish. Thanks to
Christopher Hasciotis. Thanks to Eaves, Jeff Coat, thanks to you
know What. Thanks thanks to you know well Man. Thanks
to you Man. Thanks for not being a megalomaniacal, genocidal maniac.
(37:57):
I mean, you know history is full of them. I'm
trying to do something for it. You are succeeding, my friend.
We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from
(38:25):
my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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