November 2, 2024 • 50 mins
Like many ancient cultures, the civilizations of Mesoamerica had a vast and rich history of unique cultural practices, spiritual beliefs and ceremonies, some of which may seem bizarre to people in the modern day. In this episode, the guys examine a common practice from ancient Mayan culture: the ritual alcohol enema.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, man, do you remember, uh, not too long ago,
but chugging when we learned the concept of boofy.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Sorry, now I'm thinking of that story about the frat
guys that had to like get up and do a
press commerce with their lawyers or they talked about the
practice of butt hugging and the lawyer said it multiple.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Times, yes, yes, yes, yes, and the kids, the kids
acted in this thing that they have called butt chugging.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Pause before he paused time really popped it, yeah, denying
it on the behalf of his clients. But this is
not something that frat boys invented. In fact, it's it's
dates back much much further than that into antiquity. Uh.
The ancient Mayans, in fact, were big fans of squirting
alcohol up their uh their butts.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah. Yeah, not to put too fine a cheek on it,
but uh, it's weird.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Because we were.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Writing the description for this episode back in twenty eighteen,
I remember thinking, all right, we have to set out
at the beginning that civilizations throughout Mesoamerica have vast and
rich history far before Europeans were messing with them. A
lot of complex spiritual beliefs, ceremonies, a lot of stuff right,
(01:18):
very old, very storied civilizations.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
And you're right.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
One of the common practices in ancient Maya culture in particular,
was a ritual involving alcohol enemas.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Let's check it out, y'all, let's chuck it out, Oh boy.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. A tiny bit
(02:08):
of trivia to begin today's episode, Friends and neighbors, fellow
ridiculous historians. Once upon a time, I Ben Bollen lived
in Guatemala.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Ben, you always play your tales of adventure in Guatemala
very close to the vest I'm hoping today that will change.
My name is Nol, and this is ridiculous History. Why
are we talking about Guatemala? Ben?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
I'm so glad you asked, Nol. We're talking about Guatemala
today because it leads us into a very strange topic,
one that we think that you might rightly call ridiculous.
Our super producer Casey Pegram certainly did off air earlier.
(02:54):
He chuckled, yeah, which we took as very high praise.
So when I was living in Guatemala, one of the
things that constantly astounded me was the wealth of ancient
culture there, especially as you go up into the northern
part of the country Patan. Then you will see all
(03:16):
these amazing ruins that have stood the test of time
pretty well and are currently protected by the government, which
is a good thing. And it inspired in me this
interest in Mayan culture, meso American culture, but Maya in particular.
And the reason I was so inspired by this is
(03:36):
because I was living in a town called Jela ke
Taltenango and there's still a lot of my influence there.
I remember learning Spanish well enough to get by in
the day, and then people would switch to Kicha, the
other language they spoke.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I did not know that that was a thing until
we started researching this topic today. Should we let the
cat of the bag.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
We can let it roll around just the second more
because I want to make sure people know that we
are being respectful with this. It's a very different thing
for both of us. Okay, Ben, you're really doubling down
on this. It's just I think it's just one sentence
we needed to say it. There is such a wealth
of cultural practice, a lot of which might seem strange
(04:23):
to many of us in the modern day, and recently
knowl with the help of our pow Christopher hasiotis we
discovered a ritual that we had never heard of, right,
I mean you hadn't heard of this in this context.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
I had not heard of it in this context. What
I would like you to do, Ben, is give me
a list of three, because, as we decided, a list
must be three minimum. Well that's the bare bones. The
barrier of entry to a list there we go is three.
So give me three cultural oddities that you found in
your time in Guatemala, ending with the one that is
(04:59):
today's episode that you only found out about just recently.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Okay, yes, I'll play these reindeer games. So one people
wouldn't snap their fingers the way that you and I do.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Like that.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
What you do is, and imagine this with us listeners,
you take your thumb and your middle finger and you
put them together so the fingertips touch, and then you
shake your hand. I can do it with my left hand,
and you make a snapping noise.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
It's tough.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
You make a snapping noise with your pointer finger against
your middle finger.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
That sounds like that would wear out your wrist.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, agreed. I still never quite mastered the trick too.
And this is one of my favorite things all those
old bluebird school buses that you know, fairy kids back
and forth to school in the States. When they are retired,
they move outside of the United States down south and
they become what are known as chicken busses, and they're
a mode of transit. If you get a second look
(05:54):
them up on Google. They're amazing. You would love these
in particular and all they have a lot of psychedelic colors.
There are these amazing mods and the drivers will take
these things anywhere around Volcano.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
It was sort of like a crazy, grateful dead bus.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
And of course number three NL that we just found
out about, I'm gonna give the honor.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
To you, my friend. Yeah, I don't know. This is
sort of a hollow setup that I have been envisioned,
but I mainly just wanted to hear some of the
trivia that you had from your time. Then we'll get
into more of that. The third one in the topic
of the day's episode is that back in the days
of these Mesoamerican indigenous tribes, the Maya, the Inca of
the Aztec, the tull Tech, the Olmec. We'll get into
more of those, there was a pretty heavy focus on
(06:38):
getting utterly smashed on everything from fermented plants to psychedelic mushrooms,
all in the service of opening up your mind to
the spirit world in kind of a shamanistic way. Yeah.
But the one that we didn't really know about this
is all kind of on the nose, is that they
(06:58):
did this thing where they gave themselves and potentially each
other ritualistic alcohol anemas.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
That is true. We will restate this so that you
know you are not mishearing this thing. It's not a
Freudian slip of your ear. Ritual alcohol animals, ritualistic alcohol anemas.
Because you see, when you are exploring the material crafts
left behind by the civilization, you will see a lot
of depictions on the pottery right or on the walls
(07:32):
of people doing various things, stories from the mythology of
the time, as well as daily life commemorations of the
lives of noted figures glyphs, right, yeah, glyphs. And you'll
also see a ton of what are definitively believed to
be anima scenes like you just described nol and they're
(07:54):
on the Mayan pottery. Experts agree that these undoubtedly re
present like these are not metaphors they undoubtedly represent a
literal activity, and for a while this was controversial because
it's sort of it's sort of undermined the image that
a lot of people had of the minds as a
(08:15):
very contemplative, philosophical people. Stoic, Yeah, even stoic. They couldn't
they couldn't quite square that with the idea of indulging
in ritual acts of ecstasy. There were also displays of
characters vomiting.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
That's right been In an article called Blood Water, Vomit
and Wine, author Lucia Henderson discusses the importance of these
various fermented drinks that were used in some of these ceremonies,
one of them being something called polkway.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yes, polk way, and you can find this article online
in the meso American Voices Journal. Polkway is an alcoholic
beverage that is made by fermenting the sap of agave plant,
specifically a magwa not magway, be careful, not a Gremlins reference,
m a g u e y. And you may be
(09:13):
familiar with a gave being used in other alcoholic beverages
right even in the modern day, So we know that
this was widespread in many different forms it's almost more
of an umbrella term at times. But Noel, could you
tell us a little bit about polke and what it
is and what's in it? I know honey is associated
(09:36):
with it.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, so polk. It was actually also called achtli in Nahuatl,
which is the Aztec language. And it's, like you said,
made from the sap of this plant, but they actually
have to cut into the heart of the plant, which
is the part that you I believe the word was magwa, Yeah, exactly.
But the thing is it actually has pretty low alcohol content,
(09:58):
ranging from two to eight percent. According to an article Tequila,
Mezcal and Pulque by Suzanne Barbezot from Trip Savvy, it's
got a really good rundown of the differences because they
are all made from agave. But the difference with polk
is that it's made from that heart, kind of like
a heart of palm or like an artichoke hart or something.
But it's a pretty low alcohol content, So it kind
(10:20):
of makes sense maybe that in order to get wasted
on it enough to open your mind up to this
kind of other dimension, you might need to absorb it
a little quicker. That's right.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
The drink had its own goddess. It was very common
in the culture. It featured in tales of Mesoamerican mythology.
And as you said, no, it was drunk in moderation
on a daily basis. But for these important religious festivals,
you know, weddings, fertility rites, ceremonies of that nature, it
has served in more copious amounts. And to really get
(10:57):
the bang for their buck, they administered it directly directly.
And we're you know, we're adults. We can say directly
without giggling.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I mean, we can at least make a game out
of not giggling and looking each other directly in the eyes.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
What we say directly. I'm good, I'm golden, good, great, great,
how are you?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
I'm great. Let's go on.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Let's move on with So how did they administer this?
Speaker 2 (11:20):
You talked about finding those artifacts, right, the clay potts
and all of that. Another type of artifact that they found,
and a lot of this is coming from a study,
by the way, from the journal Neurologia called Hallucinogenic Drugs
and Pre Columbian meso American Cultures by FJ. Coro ar
Tall and one of the bits of evidence outside of
(11:42):
the depictions of these ritual enemas on these pieces of
pottery were the actual implements used to shoot that stuff
up there. They were syringes. This stuff was administered with
syringes made from gourds and clay. And if you look
(12:03):
at one of the figures in the study, there is
a depiction of one of these mind ritual enemas, and
it's a gentleman laying what do you call it, legs
of kimbo I guess, sort of reclining and displayed there
you go. And then you got a priest or some
kind of He seems to be wearing a different garb
and he is reaching down at him with this thing
(12:24):
that looks kind of like a loot, but it's actually
clearly a gourd, and it's got you know, the big
bull at the bottom was obviously full of polka or.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Any of the other similar related.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Beverages exactly of the of the region. And it looks
like he's getting ready to to give give give him
a good squirt.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah he's gonna have a rager, right.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Well, apparently so, and we we need to backtrack just
to touch We sort of started the episode off by
saying that a lot of this was done in service
of getting into a trance like state, because the purpose
was to achieve in enlighten We talked about this cultures
as being these meso American cultures are being perceived as
(13:04):
more stoic, and this doesn't necessarily entirely fly in the
face of that, because they're not doing this just around
their daily going is on. This is all in these
We call it ritualistic for a reason. It was to
open up their minds to achieve this enlightenment, get into
a state of ecstasy and almost like an inner peace,
(13:26):
and to potentially achieve hallucinations in sort of a vision
questy way and being able to commune with the gods.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, that's the idea. It's removing some of the barriers
of perception that would exist in normal day to day life.
So what we're emphasizing here is that when people were
doing it, it wasn't to just party party without some
sort of larger plan here. We also, in addition to
(13:58):
the tools the implements that you mentioned, all the gords
and syringes, we also found these thin hollow bones. We
know that there was a practice in some similar cultures
where shamans would use a deer bladder and maybe a
hollowed out femur bone to pump a substance through the
(14:21):
rectum into the body. And there were some although you
know this thing is rife for some crass humor, there
were some definite medical advantages. It doesn't touch your stomach.
It doesn't touch your stomach, and it doesn't touch your liver. Yes,
and the anus is full of very sensitive vascular tissue
(14:43):
that is highly highly absorptive. Yeah. Yeah, And since there's
another point with the liver thing, that's really important and
I'm so glad you brought this up. The liver would
break down hallucinogenic elements. So administering these substances this way,
to your point, gives you much more bang for your
(15:05):
buck anebriation or hallucination wise.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, no, it's true. And I wonder if the location
of injection was less important than just the fact that
it was a more efficient way of achieving that state,
especially with alcohol that was relatively lower in potency. We
actually skipped the earliest form of this of intoxicating liquors
(15:32):
that they use. It was something called bal ja that's
made by infusing the bark, some sort of broken down
version of the bark from a tree called the longcocarpus
longest stylus, and then they mix that with honey, this
particular kind of honey that's made by bees that have
fed on a morning glory derivative that is very high
(15:54):
in something called ergine, which is very closely related to
little something called lsd our guide is lysergic acid amide,
and it also can be lysergic acid lysergamide. So I
think it's a very close molecular connection between that and
(16:15):
lysergic acid diethylamide, which is the mass that we know
about from the you know, from the grateful dead buses
earlier in the.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Is or from fish earlier in Vermont.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
It's true. But here's the thing. They would, you know,
a lot of times when they were doing these ritual enemas,
they would add other psychedelic substances, psychotropic substances and mix
them into kind of a cocktail. And then that's how
they would achieve the heights of openness.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Tobacco, for instance, water lilies, those all went in there.
And you know the thing about pulk specifically is that
it had an extremely short shelf life, so these other
alternatives could exist concurrently, but they were when we talked
about these ritual enemas. Whatever the substance was and whatever
(17:04):
the specific cocktail mix was, it had the same goal,
which was again to achieve this enlightenment. And I don't
know about you, Nol, but I was startled by how
much research had been conducted on this. You know, it
hit me when I was thinking back on search history
(17:24):
and whatever Big Brother would see us looking through that
for some time, my search history will be riddled with
things like Brian Strauss and Justin Carer's nineteen ninety article
notes on the Mayan vision quest by enema, and then
of course blood water, vomit, and wine. We found a
(17:45):
comprehensive breakdown to your point about the specific ingredients in
these enemas. We found a comprehensive breakdown of it by
a guy named Peter agm De smet ritual enemas and
snuffs in the America.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Snuffs being things you would insulfate like cocaine, for example,
or any number of powders that could be ground down
from plant matter, and rather than ingesting it orally, you
sniff it up your nose.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, exactly. And you know what I'd like to make
insulfate our word of the day.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
It's a peewee thing. Did do we mention the fact
that this has been going on as far back as
twelve hundred to four hundred BCE with the Olmec people.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
We have not, And it's important that we do, because
we mentioned the phrase polke and the phrase mague being
in bulk and bulke being thrown around, but we didn't
mention the actual earliest instances of this practice. And I
believe you are I believe you are correct.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
So it is the old mac. Here's a good detail too,
because the alcohol content and these substances were so low,
they would inject them rectally and it would often they
would get so intoxicated that they would vomit. And there
was part of the ritual, particular ritual, where their vomit
(19:08):
would be collected in bags that would then be hung
around their necks.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
And this was a way also of publicly displaying your
completion of or participation in this ritual. And in the
article that straws and care work done, they gave us
a little bit of background as far as the transportation
of this stuff goes. Here's a quotation the anema substance
(19:36):
they say may have been transported in liquid form. Given
the large size of these jars. They had specific enema jars, right,
you can see those, and those are things that bear
a lot of these decoration exact cliffs, so they continue.
It's difficult to think of why this would be the
case unless some of the ingredients included fermentation based alcohol.
(19:56):
It's conceivable the heavy jar was transported empty of liquid
and the material were mixed with liquid on the spot.
But unless a large quantity was used at a time,
the reason for carrying such a jar is rather a mystery.
I love when people use rather that way. I'm gonna
start bringing that back. Oh you should do you have
my back on that one?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
I have your back on everything, Ben, thanks man.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Likewise, so we know that they had these specific jars,
we know the things that were decorated on them, and
we know that they had specific recurring characters, which I
think is so cool. I'm just a big world building
nerd in that regard.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
And when we talk about characters too, they actually had
these terra cotta figures that demonstrated the proper procedure for
I'm trying to think of another way of saying administering
these butt fluids.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yes, yes, so we see some common themes. Noel, you
described the priest administering something to a supplicant or the receiver.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yeah, I guess priest is maybe too broad a term,
something of a shaman who is trying to guide this process.
And here's the thing. What were these rituals about. They
were often things like about healing rituals where and I
just want to point out too that it was most
important for the leader of these rituals, the shaman, to
be as open as possible to this spirit, realm or
(21:24):
they have you. But he would also administer to the supplicants,
you know, the participants in the ritual you mentioned earlier.
I think marriage rituals, we're talking about fertility rights, I
think you said. And the healing wherein someone maybe was
ill or dying and did in some way and this
would be a way to exercise that in some way
(21:45):
and hopefully to promote healing, even though there's no real
medical efficacy here.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
We'll get to that in a second.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
Two.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
We can see some of these rituals where we can
glean some of the purposes behind them by again looking
at the glyphs, the decorations in the art surrounding these
jars because they have these recurring participants. There's water lily Jaguar.
This is a character who's frequently seen in Nima jug
(22:19):
scenes for the Anima ritual. He has a turbin bib.
You'll see him involved in enemas that are associated with
sacrificial rights. Interesting you'll see other characters like spider Monkey,
who is also common in Anema jug scenes. And then
you'll see things like drug bird. That's the name. Drug
(22:41):
Bird is distinguished by a beak with the fat outturned end.
It doesn't look like any real bird, but it's present
in at least four Anima scenes that are on these jugs.
You have other characters like big lipped frogs and often
holding a water lily or something that would be representative
of ingredients in a particular type of cocktail.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
And then when we start getting into some of the
other substances they would imbibe, like psychedelic mushrooms. They even
had a the Mixtech people had a god called seven
Flowers who is shown holding two mushrooms in each of
his hands. But you know who didn't like.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
This behavior, Ben oh gosh Tell me, who on earth
would have a problem with this.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
It was the priests, the Catholic prief. Yeah, the first one,
Diego de Landa. He gave this account of experiencing some
of this stuff. He said, the Indians consumed which always
think it's funny because these are the use of Indian
to refer to Mayan people and Aztec people. Right, it's
kind of a it's kind of a misnomer, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I mean, yeah, it's it's lazy naming. The idea was, uh,
you know, the the name comes from this kakamamie idea
that they had landed in the Indian continent.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Oh, speaking of witch, you just posted a really great
uh Mitchell and Webb look sketch on the Ridiculous History's
Facebook page that addresses that very thing. But anyway, here's
the quote from Diego. He says, the Indians consumed alcohol
and drugs and immense quantities, which gave rise to many evils,
including murders. They made wine from honey water and the
root of a certain tree. This is describing that bulk
(24:17):
that they grew just for that purpose. The wine had
a very strong flavor and a putrid odor, not a
fan of these rituals. And then, of course you know
their goal was to turn them all into good to
good Catholics anyway, So any of these what they would
have seen as barbaric kind of rituals probably rubbed them
the wrong way, with or without the booze.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, and let's not forget this idea of proselytization. On
their end was entirely by hook or by crook. The
ends justify the means. So we could imagine a bit
we can speculate on how the Spanish forces would have
reacted to this. Now, the idea of an enema in
(25:00):
in general would not have been completely foreign to them.
It is, as they say in The Beauty and the Beast,
a tale as old as time, right.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
And I mean, you know, animas are good for like
one thing, which is uh.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, enemas. Over the span of human civilizations, here's a
sentence I didn't think I would say today. Over the
span of human civilization, animas have been used for numerous
real or purported medical benefits. They've been used for a
bowel management. They've also been used, you know, to relieve constantpation.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
That's the one, Yeah, that's the one that I think
is actually accurate that it can help you with well.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
They can also be used to administer other substances directly
into the bloodstream.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Of course, right as we know from our pals the minds.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Right, or you know from your local veterinarian, they may
recommend that you give someone a suppository or a pet
a subpository.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
I guess, so, I guess I think of those as
being sort of two different sides of the same butt coin.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Because enemas would be liquid, they don't have to be
there's smoke inemas.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
That's very true, Ben, you are really opening my third eye.
Oh boy.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yes, we are a family show here. One thing that
was very interesting to both of us when we started
exploring this stuff is that there is an entire culture,
so multiple cultures associated with again the real or perceived
effects of enemas in a palliative or medical sense.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Absolutely, and if you want to deep dive into this,
I highly recommend checking out our sister podcast Stuff you
Missed History Classes episode on a fellow by the name
of John Harvey Kellogg. But let's give you the broad strokes.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, John Harvey Kellogg was nowadays best known as a
serial visionary, right he made Kellogg cornflakes.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
A serial visionary like he may had many visions in
success in quick succession. I hope so, Yeah, I hope so.
But he also, you know, came up with what's today
still a very popular breakfast item, Yeah, the corn flake.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
And in his non cereal tycoon life, he had very
particular and nowadays very strange seeming medical beliefs. Cereal was
a side effect of I guess an added value right
(27:33):
to his primary goal, which was improving people's health and
stopping them from masturbating. Yes, just like the Graham Cracker inventor. Yeah,
he saw masturbation as a moral danger and a medical problem.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
He was a Seventh Day Adventist and a staunch vegetarian
and health nut.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yeah, and a huge proponent of enemas you can read.
You could read a great article about this on the
Washington Post by Rebeccah Fowler. This is one of my
favorite titles, although all the authors were citing here and
knocking it out with the titles today, an Enema of
the People NOL.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
That was what Harvey Kellogg was after, just and that
a Blink one eighty two album. It's an enema of
the state of the state. And that's been Casey on
the case.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
And Kellogg himself practiced what he preached. He preached the
health benefits of enemas. He also administered multiple enemas a
day to himself.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Sure, like you do, like you do.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
And the more you dive into this, and yeah, we
do recommend the myst and History class episode. The more
you dive into it, the more we see that while
he had these very hardline health health based principles like
no smoking, for instance, he really really really doubled down
(28:58):
on enemas. Yogurt enemas.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
That was a big thing.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
This is messy. It seems like, you know what, never
tried it, but it does seem really messy.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, I'll take my yogurt orally, thank you very much.
But here's the thing. A lot of this was kind
of considered to the now when we look at it
through the lens of science, of modern science, to be
kind of quackery or at least I don't know what
do you call it when you've got kind of a pseudoscience, right,
(29:26):
but it persists to this day. Right, there are people
who swear up and down that coffee enemas are the thing, right, right,
And speaking of things you never thought you'd read in
your web browser for a work related adventure, I found
an article called Anema history in the Mind culture that
was sort of a travelogue of a gentleman who visited
(29:47):
some of these areas with these ruins to investigate the
history of what we've been talking about today. And it
starts thus in twenty ten, I visited Guatemala in order
to responsibly cultivate my relationship with the fairly traded and
coffee that I sell for my colon cleansed clients to
use for their coffee enemas at home. And then there's
a very helpful link to his fairly traded Anima coffee.
(30:11):
And it's very it's it's it's certified organic, it's low acidity,
it's air roasted, and it's hiring caffeine and palmitic acid,
and of course fairly traded. But this gentleman just is
a real proponent of this remedy and it's it's a thing.
It's kind of a picking up steam a little bit.
(30:32):
And this particular type of a cleanse is part of
something called the Gerson therapy that was developed in the
nineteen thirties. But the FDA has consistently come out against
cleanses of any kind, saying that the science just isn't there,
and then enemas are really only good for that one
thing we talked about earlier, which was you know, curing
(30:54):
constipation as as God intended, or you know, for shooting
alcohol up your butt and making you incredibly intoxicated so
you can you know, talk to the spirits.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Or in some cases medicine to help you. That would happen, right.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Also true, I still think that's different. That's just a
rectal administration of you know what that's you know, alcohol
is not like it's not water. You're shooting it up
there just to get the effects of it. It's not
like you're not using it as a cleanse.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Well, yeah, you know. The thing that I think fascinates
both of us is not just how widespread this practice
has been, but the fact that it continues today. Unlike
several other traditional practices in Mesoamerica, this practice survived colonialism
(31:39):
and some tribes still practice it.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
And additionally here even we record in the United States,
as you know, a long time listeners here, it is
also a popular thing, but under a different name.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Man, do we get to say it now?
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yes, you have waited long enough.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
But jugging, you say it, you say it right.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
I'm gonna say it in a in a posh British voice,
but chugging.
Speaker 5 (32:08):
But no, And that just sounds like you're saying, but
chugging is not good for you. You should drink more
gentlemanly like and slower at a rit a medium pace.
I need you to say, but chugging.
Speaker 6 (32:19):
I feel like that's your voice.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
How about Okay, you don't have to say it in
that voice. I just want you to really lean into it,
a rowdy bottom chug. Okay, that's good, that's fine, that's great.
You're talking about it a man. If you do, you
I'll do. Obviously am more excited about butt chugging than
you are, and that's fine. We're two different people. We
can have our own feels about things.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
So butt chugging, essentially is is administering alcohol directly without
the purpose of pursuing some great spiritual revelation or epiphany.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
It's recreational. Yeah, there was a there was a case
back in oh when was it? I was in fourteen, that'stent.
She was a little earlier than that twenty fourteen when
it was when the fallout kind of went down. It
was in twenty twelve where a fraternity at the University
of Tennessee, the Pi Kappa Alpha chapter, had got into
(33:13):
a little hot water when an underage student named Alexander P.
Broughton went to the hospital after a real rager, as
they say, with an alcohol blood alcohol level of point
four to oh, which is.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Five times the legal limit and in what doctors call
the death zone for alcohol was the zone.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, And they examined him and decided that he had
been penetrated in some way. They said there was signs
of sexual assaults. And it came out that the investigators believed,
rather than him having been sexually assaulted in some way,
that he had this alcohol administered erectally right with a
(33:57):
length of hose. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
And there's a misconception amongst many people, or there was
at the time, that inserting alcohol into any other orifice
would reduce the chances of vomiting from a hangover or
something like that.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yes, seems off.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
It's misinformed at the very least, and the experts have
labeled this activity extremely dangerous because think about it, you know,
if first off. If this is being done to someone
as another ritual, like a fraternity hazing ritual or something,
oh yeah, then safety is not prioritized near as much
(34:35):
as it should be.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Absolutely not. Man. Whenever I have you been to a
fraternity party before? Yeah, yeah, I've only been to one,
and it was well after I had graduated from college.
And I have to say I was shocked, Ben, I
was shocked. I mean, I just thought there was like
a like a very slight, twenty two to twenty three
year old girl in a devil costume walking around pounding
(34:57):
a handle, mind you, a vue all by herself, like
that was her beverage for the night. I was, you know,
I like a good, a stiff drink, sure as much
as the rest of them. But I was taken aback.
But here's the thing with the story about from ut. Yeah,
it turned out that it was very important to the
(35:19):
father of this young man and the fraternity and their
lawyers to make it very clear that no butt chugging
took place. In fact, there is a delightful clip you
can find. We're not going to play it here. You
can see that if you want, where their lawyer says
the phrase butt chugging no less than fifteen times in
this press conference, and it is is a hoot, he
(35:42):
claimed the boy that he was participating in a party
called the Tour of Franzia, because when they went back
to investigate the scene, they found like those wine box
bags if you open up the box of wine, sometimes
a space bag. They found the littered everywhere and a
lot of passed out fraternity brothers there. And the Tour
(36:05):
of Frenzias, I guess where you just drink bad white
zinfandel until you black out.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Sounds like a very niche audience. Here are a very
niche party. But despite the hilarious name of butt chugging,
the dangers and effects of this are very real.
Speaker 4 (36:23):
Like you really owned it when you said at that time, Ben.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
You know what's funny about this nol is we hope
everyone has enjoyed learning about these ritualistic practices that, maybe
with different aims, continue today in the modern world. But
I gotta tell you, man, I am I'm a little
at odds about how best to end this, because it's
(36:53):
lovely when we end on questions so we can hear
from you friends and neighbors. But I think we should
be careful what questions we ask on this one.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
I think we should do it. I would like to
do a little PSA here and say, kids, don't put
alcohol in your butt. No, just don't do it. Don't
do it. Just don't do it. Don't do it. They're
not worth it.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
There are better things you can do.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
You can reach the spirit realm naturally.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
You can meditate, exercise, yeah, you can climate tree, yeah,
climate tree. You know what, Go look at the stars.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
They're beautiful this time of year, they're beautiful.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
All the time. And on that note, oh no, you
know what it is.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
It's been so long.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
I didn't think it was ever going to happen again.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
It's always going to happen.
Speaker 6 (37:41):
It's time, gentlemen.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Jonathan Strickland the quizt you've returned yet again to be
deevil Us with fact and.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Fiction, and you're in top wickedly gleeful form.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
My friend, I mean my bitter enemy.
Speaker 6 (37:56):
Yes, flattery, you will get your No.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
So this is again there's a surprise to us, as
it always seems to be when we're about to end
the episode. This is the part of Ridiculous history where
in our long standing nemesis Jonathan Strickland. The quister returns
to give us a fact, and Nolan and I must
(38:21):
determine whether it is true or it is false.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
We have three.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Minutes, yes, and that that timer on this gigantic grandfather
clock behind us does not start until after you have
stated the plane.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
It's more of a great grandfather clock, isn't it.
Speaker 6 (38:38):
And we should point out that I also always give
you an arbitrary rule you must follow, yes every time.
This time, because we are talking about alcohol, I got
your nice, a nice adult beverage. So before any question
you must pop that open, take us wig and then
(39:00):
say I got I got one for you Quist.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
And just to you, have you had a few? You
sound a little define a few?
Speaker 1 (39:09):
The word the euphemism I've always liked to use is charming.
No I think Noel saying you sound a bit.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Charming, no Quist is nothing if not charming.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
That's true.
Speaker 6 (39:19):
I'm so charming. The room is spinning right now.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Okay, all right, I hope that you administer this alcohol
orally well you know that is young.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
It's fair sure, so we uh, we will have to
pop the first time we asked something, and then after
that just.
Speaker 6 (39:35):
Sidright, assuming that you have to ask anything at all.
You may you may feel very confident to not have
to ask any questions.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
And just to point out to the listeners at home,
it is approaching five, so I think it's it's perfectly.
Speaker 6 (39:47):
Appropriated arms somewhere.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
Indeed, all right, let's do this.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Sorry, I knock it out.
Speaker 6 (39:52):
Here's your scenario, and guess what what, it's a long one.
Here we go.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Since nineteen sixty three, every.
Speaker 6 (40:02):
Year on January fifteenth, in Nozawa, Onsen, Japan, there is
an interesting sake fueled ritual that pits villagers against each other,
all in the name of the Shinto religion. All men
who are either twenty five or forty two years old
are conscripted to guard a wooden shrine constructed just for
(40:25):
the event. The men are encouraged to drink sake, a
lot of it, like half a gallon of the stuff
of more. The purpose for drinking that much is to
imbue the young men with the courage to face what
comes next. That next thing is a priest endows the
shrine with a dosogin, or a protective travel spirit associated
(40:49):
with crossroads. The drunken twenty five and forty two year
olds must then defend the shrine against all the other
men of the village, who arm themselves with torchu is
an attempt to burn the shrine down. At least one
person has died from injury sustained in this yearly festival,
and many receive serious injuries. The whole ceremony originally was
(41:11):
meant to encourage a good harvest. These days it's also
to wish for a profitable skiing season.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
You need some water man begin, okay.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
All right, I am officially starting the timer.
Speaker 6 (41:28):
I get one for you, hemy mistard. All right?
Speaker 1 (41:30):
So why are they only twenty five and forty two?
And they're not arranged?
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Right?
Speaker 1 (41:37):
It's not everyone twenty five to forty two, it's those
ages specific.
Speaker 6 (41:41):
An excellent question. Many Japanese traditions are based in superstition
in the festival is no different with the twenty five
and forty two year old in the village chosen to
take on the special roles because those are the so
called unlucky ages for men.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
Of course, he had an answer for him.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
That's you know, that's almost suspicious. There we go, there
we go.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Why are you so horrible?
Speaker 6 (42:07):
It just comes naturally, I guess.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
That's fair, that's it. Yeah, I don't know, man, I
thought you were bringing the fire. I got no. He
puts out my fire. He extinguishes me like like one
of those torches. And this potentially untrue story.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
So we're at two minutes. Hang on, they got one
for you, all right, hear me, mister, what is what?
What year did this originate?
Speaker 2 (42:33):
In?
Speaker 4 (42:33):
It again?
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Eighteen sixty three?
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Crypt uh damn it?
Speaker 2 (42:41):
There you go?
Speaker 6 (42:42):
All right? Yeah, what turning back up on him?
Speaker 2 (42:45):
What is the uh?
Speaker 1 (42:47):
What town is it in again?
Speaker 6 (42:48):
It's it's in Nosala, just at the base of a
mountain range.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Oh what is this like some kind of generic just
just beer?
Speaker 6 (43:01):
Yep, it just just store brand beer in a white
can with a word beer.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Honest, it's skunky. It's like a prop you'd see in
a movie.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
I couldn't at least bring natty like.
Speaker 6 (43:11):
I honestly found it like in the basement. But go ahead.
Speaker 4 (43:15):
Yeah, I don't know, man.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
There's so many things like can't you just give us
a quick a to be kind of like scenario?
Speaker 6 (43:22):
This was a quick one.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
No, no, well we are.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
At fifty seconds.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Okay, what the torches? The burning down? Why the men?
I think it's not true. It seems like Ben that
there's parts of this. I know there are rituals like
this that they do. There's like the Saki ceremonies where
they even like, you know, spit the fermented the rice
and the lily put they make their sake, spit the rice,
(43:47):
chew it up and spit it into a queue, and
then they cover it and bury it and then it's
like a whole thing. It was in a movie I saw.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
I just feel because I'm such an optimistic person. I
feel burned every time I guess. And it's not you know, okay,
I just want to believe in stuff too much.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
I know, I know, I guess. I just feel like, what,
what are they risk burning down infrastructure?
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Yeah, you want to go not true? Five four three, Okay,
we're gonna lock it. We didn't lock it in yet.
Stop licking at me that way, twister. That's our time.
He's given me a look. You know, you never know
with Okay, all right, we'll say it.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Then just do it. Not true, you poor idiots, you
poor idiots.
Speaker 6 (44:28):
It's true, son of us, It is absolutely true. I
gave you this on a platter.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
I did you say platter or platter.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
Listen, I've had a few, all right. Listen, listen, listen,
man bowling listen. I had to make sure it was
good stuff that I brought you. Listen, all right.
Speaker 6 (44:50):
So anyway, yeah, no, this is one of the three
big fire festivals of Japan. It's actually one of the
most famous. Has been covered with various news outlets NPR,
and I mean it was the internet is lousy with
information about this thing, and I thought for sure one
of you would have heard about it, since it's so
creat So.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
I feel have you heard about the one with the
rice though? Where they spits that one?
Speaker 6 (45:13):
So what is happening here is the dosojin is as
a Shinto spirit that is considered to be a kindly
spirit that helps travelers, and so the priests from the
nearby shrine supposedly imbuse this temporary shrine, this model of
a shrine that's been constructed over the course of a
(45:35):
few days by about one hundred villagers with the spirit
of a dos Ojen. The whole purpose is to burn
it's it's it's almost like an offering, and so they
build a big bonfire out of various pieces of very
flammable stuff and lots of the tall dolls and things
that represent various elements of the culture. And then the
(45:56):
men of the village they light their torches. They are
supposed to eventually burn the thing down. I think that's
also one of the reasons why the defenders are encouraged
to get almost blackout drunk.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
It seems dangerous with fire.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Yeah, that's righting a guy died and lots of people
get day.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
In my defense, in our defense, when you say shrine
and you're talking about like a village, I think I'm
picturing like a building that's meant to stay there.
Speaker 6 (46:26):
No, this was absolutely just constructed for the purpose at
the festival.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
That's what threw me. That's what for me.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
And a lot of those buildings are created from wood
rather than still.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Yes, this one is like you risk burning down the
whole village though, Like, yeah.
Speaker 6 (46:38):
The pictures of this, by the way, are phenomenal. It
happens January fifteenth every year. So if you guys, you know,
we don't want to do a ridiculous history on the road,
I'm just.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Saying extra credit January fifteenth, be there. Yeah, let's get
the bosses to pop for Japan tickets.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Yeah, lend. Just for fun, let's find one of our
coworkers that is either forty two or twenty five and
not tell them what's going down to Waylan.
Speaker 6 (47:01):
You know what age I am this year? Right, forty two?
I just missed it.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Well done? Yeah, well, I can't even be mad. That
was good.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
I love learning new stuff nol. So, although Quister, I
do feel like you put a lot more work into
gloating about today than you did into doing the question,
I applaud you.
Speaker 6 (47:25):
I gave you so many hints for one thing. Just
the last time I was on here, you mentioned that
when I do a really long one, it means it's fake.
I did another really long one just so that you
would know it was real, and you still chose.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
To tell by the way you were looking at me.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Man, I should have flipped it. Should have. Yeah, But
we're a team. We are a team.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
We're a team team. I don't want to do a
last minute flip. And we have your back. Folks, thank
you so much for tuning in, and Quister, thank you
for coming on the show.
Speaker 6 (47:58):
Enjoy your beer.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
They thank you for the Thank you for the unlabeled.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Generic basement beer. Not to say swill.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Well, that's it for us today. However, if you would
like to learn more Ridiculous history, if you would like
to hang out with your fellow Ridiculous historians, boy, do
we have good news for you.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Yeah, you can do it on the Facebook. You can
just go on the Facebook page for the show, or
if you want to take it up a not you
can join our Facebook group, the Ridiculous Historians. Where I
hear that pretty soon we're going to see pictures of
super producer cases, very lucrative childhood modeling career right headshots here,
there's catalog spreads spreads. Yeah, you know, probably gonna be
(48:39):
some Oshkosh goosh involved.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
We'll get to see him with an assortment of fake
parrots on what I hear.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Yeah, good stuff, good times over, good times over on
the Ridiculous Historians. You can also do us a solid
and leave us a kindly review on iTunes cause you know,
why wouldn't you.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
Yeah, we always like to hear from you, and do
remember to tune in for our next episode where we
nailed down the mystery behind the name of California.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
Spoiler alert involves a badass Amazonian queen and weaponized Griffins.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Yes, yes, yes, what the heck are you guys talking about.
We'll find out on our very next episode. In the meantime,
that's all for today. Thank you so much if you
are participating in any of the stuff we mentioned in
this topic. Not to sound too much like a worry warp,
but we, all of us, the Quister and Casey included,
(49:40):
hope that you are safe and make responsible decisions.
Speaker 6 (49:43):
Indeed, I can't open the door, guys, I can't. I can't.
I'm too far gone.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
It's because your hands are so tiny. Let's get some
torches from One more podcast from iHeartRadio. Visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, man, do you remember, uh, not too long ago,
but chugging when we learned the concept of boofy.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Sorry, now I'm thinking of that story about the frat
guys that had to like get up and do a
press commerce with their lawyers or they talked about the
practice of butt hugging and the lawyer said it multiple.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Times, yes, yes, yes, yes, and the kids, the kids
acted in this thing that they have called butt chugging.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Pause before he paused time really popped it, yeah, denying
it on the behalf of his clients. But this is
not something that frat boys invented. In fact, it's it's
dates back much much further than that into antiquity. Uh.
The ancient Mayans, in fact, were big fans of squirting
alcohol up their uh their butts.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah. Yeah, not to put too fine a cheek on it,
but uh, it's weird.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Because we were.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Writing the description for this episode back in twenty eighteen,
I remember thinking, all right, we have to set out
at the beginning that civilizations throughout Mesoamerica have vast and
rich history far before Europeans were messing with them. A
lot of complex spiritual beliefs, ceremonies, a lot of stuff right,
(01:18):
very old, very storied civilizations.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
And you're right.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
One of the common practices in ancient Maya culture in particular,
was a ritual involving alcohol enemas.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Let's check it out, y'all, let's chuck it out, Oh boy.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. A tiny bit
(02:08):
of trivia to begin today's episode, Friends and neighbors, fellow
ridiculous historians. Once upon a time, I Ben Bollen lived
in Guatemala.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Ben, you always play your tales of adventure in Guatemala
very close to the vest I'm hoping today that will change.
My name is Nol, and this is ridiculous History. Why
are we talking about Guatemala? Ben?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
I'm so glad you asked, Nol. We're talking about Guatemala
today because it leads us into a very strange topic,
one that we think that you might rightly call ridiculous.
Our super producer Casey Pegram certainly did off air earlier.
(02:54):
He chuckled, yeah, which we took as very high praise.
So when I was living in Guatemala, one of the
things that constantly astounded me was the wealth of ancient
culture there, especially as you go up into the northern
part of the country Patan. Then you will see all
(03:16):
these amazing ruins that have stood the test of time
pretty well and are currently protected by the government, which
is a good thing. And it inspired in me this
interest in Mayan culture, meso American culture, but Maya in particular.
And the reason I was so inspired by this is
(03:36):
because I was living in a town called Jela ke
Taltenango and there's still a lot of my influence there.
I remember learning Spanish well enough to get by in
the day, and then people would switch to Kicha, the
other language they spoke.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I did not know that that was a thing until
we started researching this topic today. Should we let the
cat of the bag.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
We can let it roll around just the second more
because I want to make sure people know that we
are being respectful with this. It's a very different thing
for both of us. Okay, Ben, you're really doubling down
on this. It's just I think it's just one sentence
we needed to say it. There is such a wealth
of cultural practice, a lot of which might seem strange
(04:23):
to many of us in the modern day, and recently
knowl with the help of our pow Christopher hasiotis we
discovered a ritual that we had never heard of, right,
I mean you hadn't heard of this in this context.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
I had not heard of it in this context. What
I would like you to do, Ben, is give me
a list of three, because, as we decided, a list
must be three minimum. Well that's the bare bones. The
barrier of entry to a list there we go is three.
So give me three cultural oddities that you found in
your time in Guatemala, ending with the one that is
(04:59):
today's episode that you only found out about just recently.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Okay, yes, I'll play these reindeer games. So one people
wouldn't snap their fingers the way that you and I do.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Like that.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
What you do is, and imagine this with us listeners,
you take your thumb and your middle finger and you
put them together so the fingertips touch, and then you
shake your hand. I can do it with my left hand,
and you make a snapping noise.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
It's tough.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
You make a snapping noise with your pointer finger against
your middle finger.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
That sounds like that would wear out your wrist.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, agreed. I still never quite mastered the trick too.
And this is one of my favorite things all those
old bluebird school buses that you know, fairy kids back
and forth to school in the States. When they are retired,
they move outside of the United States down south and
they become what are known as chicken busses, and they're
a mode of transit. If you get a second look
(05:54):
them up on Google. They're amazing. You would love these
in particular and all they have a lot of psychedelic colors.
There are these amazing mods and the drivers will take
these things anywhere around Volcano.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
It was sort of like a crazy, grateful dead bus.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
And of course number three NL that we just found
out about, I'm gonna give the honor.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
To you, my friend. Yeah, I don't know. This is
sort of a hollow setup that I have been envisioned,
but I mainly just wanted to hear some of the
trivia that you had from your time. Then we'll get
into more of that. The third one in the topic
of the day's episode is that back in the days
of these Mesoamerican indigenous tribes, the Maya, the Inca of
the Aztec, the tull Tech, the Olmec. We'll get into
more of those, there was a pretty heavy focus on
(06:38):
getting utterly smashed on everything from fermented plants to psychedelic mushrooms,
all in the service of opening up your mind to
the spirit world in kind of a shamanistic way. Yeah.
But the one that we didn't really know about this
is all kind of on the nose, is that they
(06:58):
did this thing where they gave themselves and potentially each
other ritualistic alcohol anemas.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
That is true. We will restate this so that you
know you are not mishearing this thing. It's not a
Freudian slip of your ear. Ritual alcohol animals, ritualistic alcohol anemas.
Because you see, when you are exploring the material crafts
left behind by the civilization, you will see a lot
of depictions on the pottery right or on the walls
(07:32):
of people doing various things, stories from the mythology of
the time, as well as daily life commemorations of the
lives of noted figures glyphs, right, yeah, glyphs. And you'll
also see a ton of what are definitively believed to
be anima scenes like you just described nol and they're
(07:54):
on the Mayan pottery. Experts agree that these undoubtedly re
present like these are not metaphors they undoubtedly represent a
literal activity, and for a while this was controversial because
it's sort of it's sort of undermined the image that
a lot of people had of the minds as a
(08:15):
very contemplative, philosophical people. Stoic, Yeah, even stoic. They couldn't
they couldn't quite square that with the idea of indulging
in ritual acts of ecstasy. There were also displays of
characters vomiting.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
That's right been In an article called Blood Water, Vomit
and Wine, author Lucia Henderson discusses the importance of these
various fermented drinks that were used in some of these ceremonies,
one of them being something called polkway.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yes, polk way, and you can find this article online
in the meso American Voices Journal. Polkway is an alcoholic
beverage that is made by fermenting the sap of agave plant,
specifically a magwa not magway, be careful, not a Gremlins reference,
m a g u e y. And you may be
(09:13):
familiar with a gave being used in other alcoholic beverages
right even in the modern day, So we know that
this was widespread in many different forms it's almost more
of an umbrella term at times. But Noel, could you
tell us a little bit about polke and what it
is and what's in it? I know honey is associated
(09:36):
with it.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, so polk. It was actually also called achtli in Nahuatl,
which is the Aztec language. And it's, like you said,
made from the sap of this plant, but they actually
have to cut into the heart of the plant, which
is the part that you I believe the word was magwa, Yeah, exactly.
But the thing is it actually has pretty low alcohol content,
(09:58):
ranging from two to eight percent. According to an article Tequila,
Mezcal and Pulque by Suzanne Barbezot from Trip Savvy, it's
got a really good rundown of the differences because they
are all made from agave. But the difference with polk
is that it's made from that heart, kind of like
a heart of palm or like an artichoke hart or something.
But it's a pretty low alcohol content, So it kind
(10:20):
of makes sense maybe that in order to get wasted
on it enough to open your mind up to this
kind of other dimension, you might need to absorb it
a little quicker. That's right.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
The drink had its own goddess. It was very common
in the culture. It featured in tales of Mesoamerican mythology.
And as you said, no, it was drunk in moderation
on a daily basis. But for these important religious festivals,
you know, weddings, fertility rites, ceremonies of that nature, it
has served in more copious amounts. And to really get
(10:57):
the bang for their buck, they administered it directly directly.
And we're you know, we're adults. We can say directly
without giggling.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I mean, we can at least make a game out
of not giggling and looking each other directly in the eyes.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
What we say directly. I'm good, I'm golden, good, great, great,
how are you?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
I'm great. Let's go on.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Let's move on with So how did they administer this?
Speaker 2 (11:20):
You talked about finding those artifacts, right, the clay potts
and all of that. Another type of artifact that they found,
and a lot of this is coming from a study,
by the way, from the journal Neurologia called Hallucinogenic Drugs
and Pre Columbian meso American Cultures by FJ. Coro ar
Tall and one of the bits of evidence outside of
(11:42):
the depictions of these ritual enemas on these pieces of
pottery were the actual implements used to shoot that stuff
up there. They were syringes. This stuff was administered with
syringes made from gourds and clay. And if you look
(12:03):
at one of the figures in the study, there is
a depiction of one of these mind ritual enemas, and
it's a gentleman laying what do you call it, legs
of kimbo I guess, sort of reclining and displayed there
you go. And then you got a priest or some
kind of He seems to be wearing a different garb
and he is reaching down at him with this thing
(12:24):
that looks kind of like a loot, but it's actually
clearly a gourd, and it's got you know, the big
bull at the bottom was obviously full of polka or.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Any of the other similar related.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Beverages exactly of the of the region. And it looks
like he's getting ready to to give give give him
a good squirt.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah he's gonna have a rager, right.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Well, apparently so, and we we need to backtrack just
to touch We sort of started the episode off by
saying that a lot of this was done in service
of getting into a trance like state, because the purpose
was to achieve in enlighten We talked about this cultures
as being these meso American cultures are being perceived as
(13:04):
more stoic, and this doesn't necessarily entirely fly in the
face of that, because they're not doing this just around
their daily going is on. This is all in these
We call it ritualistic for a reason. It was to
open up their minds to achieve this enlightenment, get into
a state of ecstasy and almost like an inner peace,
(13:26):
and to potentially achieve hallucinations in sort of a vision
questy way and being able to commune with the gods.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, that's the idea. It's removing some of the barriers
of perception that would exist in normal day to day life.
So what we're emphasizing here is that when people were
doing it, it wasn't to just party party without some
sort of larger plan here. We also, in addition to
(13:58):
the tools the implements that you mentioned, all the gords
and syringes, we also found these thin hollow bones. We
know that there was a practice in some similar cultures
where shamans would use a deer bladder and maybe a
hollowed out femur bone to pump a substance through the
(14:21):
rectum into the body. And there were some although you
know this thing is rife for some crass humor, there
were some definite medical advantages. It doesn't touch your stomach.
It doesn't touch your stomach, and it doesn't touch your liver. Yes,
and the anus is full of very sensitive vascular tissue
(14:43):
that is highly highly absorptive. Yeah. Yeah, And since there's
another point with the liver thing, that's really important and
I'm so glad you brought this up. The liver would
break down hallucinogenic elements. So administering these substances this way,
to your point, gives you much more bang for your
(15:05):
buck anebriation or hallucination wise.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, no, it's true. And I wonder if the location
of injection was less important than just the fact that
it was a more efficient way of achieving that state,
especially with alcohol that was relatively lower in potency. We
actually skipped the earliest form of this of intoxicating liquors
(15:32):
that they use. It was something called bal ja that's
made by infusing the bark, some sort of broken down
version of the bark from a tree called the longcocarpus
longest stylus, and then they mix that with honey, this
particular kind of honey that's made by bees that have
fed on a morning glory derivative that is very high
(15:54):
in something called ergine, which is very closely related to
little something called lsd our guide is lysergic acid amide,
and it also can be lysergic acid lysergamide. So I
think it's a very close molecular connection between that and
(16:15):
lysergic acid diethylamide, which is the mass that we know
about from the you know, from the grateful dead buses
earlier in the.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Is or from fish earlier in Vermont.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
It's true. But here's the thing. They would, you know,
a lot of times when they were doing these ritual enemas,
they would add other psychedelic substances, psychotropic substances and mix
them into kind of a cocktail. And then that's how
they would achieve the heights of openness.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Tobacco, for instance, water lilies, those all went in there.
And you know the thing about pulk specifically is that
it had an extremely short shelf life, so these other
alternatives could exist concurrently, but they were when we talked
about these ritual enemas. Whatever the substance was and whatever
(17:04):
the specific cocktail mix was, it had the same goal,
which was again to achieve this enlightenment. And I don't
know about you, Nol, but I was startled by how
much research had been conducted on this. You know, it
hit me when I was thinking back on search history
(17:24):
and whatever Big Brother would see us looking through that
for some time, my search history will be riddled with
things like Brian Strauss and Justin Carer's nineteen ninety article
notes on the Mayan vision quest by enema, and then
of course blood water, vomit, and wine. We found a
(17:45):
comprehensive breakdown to your point about the specific ingredients in
these enemas. We found a comprehensive breakdown of it by
a guy named Peter agm De smet ritual enemas and
snuffs in the America.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Snuffs being things you would insulfate like cocaine, for example,
or any number of powders that could be ground down
from plant matter, and rather than ingesting it orally, you
sniff it up your nose.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, exactly. And you know what I'd like to make
insulfate our word of the day.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
It's a peewee thing. Did do we mention the fact
that this has been going on as far back as
twelve hundred to four hundred BCE with the Olmec people.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
We have not, And it's important that we do, because
we mentioned the phrase polke and the phrase mague being
in bulk and bulke being thrown around, but we didn't
mention the actual earliest instances of this practice. And I
believe you are I believe you are correct.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
So it is the old mac. Here's a good detail too,
because the alcohol content and these substances were so low,
they would inject them rectally and it would often they
would get so intoxicated that they would vomit. And there
was part of the ritual, particular ritual, where their vomit
(19:08):
would be collected in bags that would then be hung
around their necks.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
And this was a way also of publicly displaying your
completion of or participation in this ritual. And in the
article that straws and care work done, they gave us
a little bit of background as far as the transportation
of this stuff goes. Here's a quotation the anema substance
(19:36):
they say may have been transported in liquid form. Given
the large size of these jars. They had specific enema jars, right,
you can see those, and those are things that bear
a lot of these decoration exact cliffs, so they continue.
It's difficult to think of why this would be the
case unless some of the ingredients included fermentation based alcohol.
(19:56):
It's conceivable the heavy jar was transported empty of liquid
and the material were mixed with liquid on the spot.
But unless a large quantity was used at a time,
the reason for carrying such a jar is rather a mystery.
I love when people use rather that way. I'm gonna
start bringing that back. Oh you should do you have
my back on that one?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
I have your back on everything, Ben, thanks man.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Likewise, so we know that they had these specific jars,
we know the things that were decorated on them, and
we know that they had specific recurring characters, which I
think is so cool. I'm just a big world building
nerd in that regard.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
And when we talk about characters too, they actually had
these terra cotta figures that demonstrated the proper procedure for
I'm trying to think of another way of saying administering
these butt fluids.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yes, yes, so we see some common themes. Noel, you
described the priest administering something to a supplicant or the receiver.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yeah, I guess priest is maybe too broad a term,
something of a shaman who is trying to guide this process.
And here's the thing. What were these rituals about. They
were often things like about healing rituals where and I
just want to point out too that it was most
important for the leader of these rituals, the shaman, to
be as open as possible to this spirit, realm or
(21:24):
they have you. But he would also administer to the supplicants,
you know, the participants in the ritual you mentioned earlier.
I think marriage rituals, we're talking about fertility rights, I
think you said. And the healing wherein someone maybe was
ill or dying and did in some way and this
would be a way to exercise that in some way
(21:45):
and hopefully to promote healing, even though there's no real
medical efficacy here.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
We'll get to that in a second.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
Two.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
We can see some of these rituals where we can
glean some of the purposes behind them by again looking
at the glyphs, the decorations in the art surrounding these
jars because they have these recurring participants. There's water lily Jaguar.
This is a character who's frequently seen in Nima jug
(22:19):
scenes for the Anima ritual. He has a turbin bib.
You'll see him involved in enemas that are associated with
sacrificial rights. Interesting you'll see other characters like spider Monkey,
who is also common in Anema jug scenes. And then
you'll see things like drug bird. That's the name. Drug
(22:41):
Bird is distinguished by a beak with the fat outturned end.
It doesn't look like any real bird, but it's present
in at least four Anima scenes that are on these jugs.
You have other characters like big lipped frogs and often
holding a water lily or something that would be representative
of ingredients in a particular type of cocktail.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
And then when we start getting into some of the
other substances they would imbibe, like psychedelic mushrooms. They even
had a the Mixtech people had a god called seven
Flowers who is shown holding two mushrooms in each of
his hands. But you know who didn't like.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
This behavior, Ben oh gosh Tell me, who on earth
would have a problem with this.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
It was the priests, the Catholic prief. Yeah, the first one,
Diego de Landa. He gave this account of experiencing some
of this stuff. He said, the Indians consumed which always
think it's funny because these are the use of Indian
to refer to Mayan people and Aztec people. Right, it's
kind of a it's kind of a misnomer, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I mean, yeah, it's it's lazy naming. The idea was, uh,
you know, the the name comes from this kakamamie idea
that they had landed in the Indian continent.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Oh, speaking of witch, you just posted a really great
uh Mitchell and Webb look sketch on the Ridiculous History's
Facebook page that addresses that very thing. But anyway, here's
the quote from Diego. He says, the Indians consumed alcohol
and drugs and immense quantities, which gave rise to many evils,
including murders. They made wine from honey water and the
root of a certain tree. This is describing that bulk
(24:17):
that they grew just for that purpose. The wine had
a very strong flavor and a putrid odor, not a
fan of these rituals. And then, of course you know
their goal was to turn them all into good to
good Catholics anyway, So any of these what they would
have seen as barbaric kind of rituals probably rubbed them
the wrong way, with or without the booze.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, and let's not forget this idea of proselytization. On
their end was entirely by hook or by crook. The
ends justify the means. So we could imagine a bit
we can speculate on how the Spanish forces would have
reacted to this. Now, the idea of an enema in
(25:00):
in general would not have been completely foreign to them.
It is, as they say in The Beauty and the Beast,
a tale as old as time, right.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
And I mean, you know, animas are good for like
one thing, which is uh.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, enemas. Over the span of human civilizations, here's a
sentence I didn't think I would say today. Over the
span of human civilization, animas have been used for numerous
real or purported medical benefits. They've been used for a
bowel management. They've also been used, you know, to relieve constantpation.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
That's the one, Yeah, that's the one that I think
is actually accurate that it can help you with well.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
They can also be used to administer other substances directly
into the bloodstream.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Of course, right as we know from our pals the minds.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Right, or you know from your local veterinarian, they may
recommend that you give someone a suppository or a pet
a subpository.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
I guess, so, I guess I think of those as
being sort of two different sides of the same butt coin.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Because enemas would be liquid, they don't have to be
there's smoke inemas.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
That's very true, Ben, you are really opening my third eye.
Oh boy.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yes, we are a family show here. One thing that
was very interesting to both of us when we started
exploring this stuff is that there is an entire culture,
so multiple cultures associated with again the real or perceived
effects of enemas in a palliative or medical sense.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Absolutely, and if you want to deep dive into this,
I highly recommend checking out our sister podcast Stuff you
Missed History Classes episode on a fellow by the name
of John Harvey Kellogg. But let's give you the broad strokes.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, John Harvey Kellogg was nowadays best known as a
serial visionary, right he made Kellogg cornflakes.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
A serial visionary like he may had many visions in
success in quick succession. I hope so, Yeah, I hope so.
But he also, you know, came up with what's today
still a very popular breakfast item, Yeah, the corn flake.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
And in his non cereal tycoon life, he had very
particular and nowadays very strange seeming medical beliefs. Cereal was
a side effect of I guess an added value right
(27:33):
to his primary goal, which was improving people's health and
stopping them from masturbating. Yes, just like the Graham Cracker inventor. Yeah,
he saw masturbation as a moral danger and a medical problem.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
He was a Seventh Day Adventist and a staunch vegetarian
and health nut.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yeah, and a huge proponent of enemas you can read.
You could read a great article about this on the
Washington Post by Rebeccah Fowler. This is one of my
favorite titles, although all the authors were citing here and
knocking it out with the titles today, an Enema of
the People NOL.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
That was what Harvey Kellogg was after, just and that
a Blink one eighty two album. It's an enema of
the state of the state. And that's been Casey on
the case.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
And Kellogg himself practiced what he preached. He preached the
health benefits of enemas. He also administered multiple enemas a
day to himself.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Sure, like you do, like you do.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
And the more you dive into this, and yeah, we
do recommend the myst and History class episode. The more
you dive into it, the more we see that while
he had these very hardline health health based principles like
no smoking, for instance, he really really really doubled down
(28:58):
on enemas. Yogurt enemas.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
That was a big thing.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
This is messy. It seems like, you know what, never
tried it, but it does seem really messy.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, I'll take my yogurt orally, thank you very much.
But here's the thing. A lot of this was kind
of considered to the now when we look at it
through the lens of science, of modern science, to be
kind of quackery or at least I don't know what
do you call it when you've got kind of a pseudoscience, right,
(29:26):
but it persists to this day. Right, there are people
who swear up and down that coffee enemas are the thing, right, right,
And speaking of things you never thought you'd read in
your web browser for a work related adventure, I found
an article called Anema history in the Mind culture that
was sort of a travelogue of a gentleman who visited
(29:47):
some of these areas with these ruins to investigate the
history of what we've been talking about today. And it
starts thus in twenty ten, I visited Guatemala in order
to responsibly cultivate my relationship with the fairly traded and
coffee that I sell for my colon cleansed clients to
use for their coffee enemas at home. And then there's
a very helpful link to his fairly traded Anima coffee.
(30:11):
And it's very it's it's it's certified organic, it's low acidity,
it's air roasted, and it's hiring caffeine and palmitic acid,
and of course fairly traded. But this gentleman just is
a real proponent of this remedy and it's it's a thing.
It's kind of a picking up steam a little bit.
(30:32):
And this particular type of a cleanse is part of
something called the Gerson therapy that was developed in the
nineteen thirties. But the FDA has consistently come out against
cleanses of any kind, saying that the science just isn't there,
and then enemas are really only good for that one
thing we talked about earlier, which was you know, curing
(30:54):
constipation as as God intended, or you know, for shooting
alcohol up your butt and making you incredibly intoxicated so
you can you know, talk to the spirits.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Or in some cases medicine to help you. That would happen, right.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Also true, I still think that's different. That's just a
rectal administration of you know what that's you know, alcohol
is not like it's not water. You're shooting it up
there just to get the effects of it. It's not
like you're not using it as a cleanse.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Well, yeah, you know. The thing that I think fascinates
both of us is not just how widespread this practice
has been, but the fact that it continues today. Unlike
several other traditional practices in Mesoamerica, this practice survived colonialism
(31:39):
and some tribes still practice it.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
And additionally here even we record in the United States,
as you know, a long time listeners here, it is
also a popular thing, but under a different name.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Man, do we get to say it now?
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yes, you have waited long enough.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
But jugging, you say it, you say it right.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
I'm gonna say it in a in a posh British voice,
but chugging.
Speaker 5 (32:08):
But no, And that just sounds like you're saying, but
chugging is not good for you. You should drink more
gentlemanly like and slower at a rit a medium pace.
I need you to say, but chugging.
Speaker 6 (32:19):
I feel like that's your voice.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
How about Okay, you don't have to say it in
that voice. I just want you to really lean into it,
a rowdy bottom chug. Okay, that's good, that's fine, that's great.
You're talking about it a man. If you do, you
I'll do. Obviously am more excited about butt chugging than
you are, and that's fine. We're two different people. We
can have our own feels about things.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
So butt chugging, essentially is is administering alcohol directly without
the purpose of pursuing some great spiritual revelation or epiphany.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
It's recreational. Yeah, there was a there was a case
back in oh when was it? I was in fourteen, that'stent.
She was a little earlier than that twenty fourteen when
it was when the fallout kind of went down. It
was in twenty twelve where a fraternity at the University
of Tennessee, the Pi Kappa Alpha chapter, had got into
(33:13):
a little hot water when an underage student named Alexander P.
Broughton went to the hospital after a real rager, as
they say, with an alcohol blood alcohol level of point
four to oh, which is.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Five times the legal limit and in what doctors call
the death zone for alcohol was the zone.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, And they examined him and decided that he had
been penetrated in some way. They said there was signs
of sexual assaults. And it came out that the investigators believed,
rather than him having been sexually assaulted in some way,
that he had this alcohol administered erectally right with a
(33:57):
length of hose. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
And there's a misconception amongst many people, or there was
at the time, that inserting alcohol into any other orifice
would reduce the chances of vomiting from a hangover or
something like that.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yes, seems off.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
It's misinformed at the very least, and the experts have
labeled this activity extremely dangerous because think about it, you know,
if first off. If this is being done to someone
as another ritual, like a fraternity hazing ritual or something,
oh yeah, then safety is not prioritized near as much
(34:35):
as it should be.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Absolutely not. Man. Whenever I have you been to a
fraternity party before? Yeah, yeah, I've only been to one,
and it was well after I had graduated from college.
And I have to say I was shocked, Ben, I
was shocked. I mean, I just thought there was like
a like a very slight, twenty two to twenty three
year old girl in a devil costume walking around pounding
(34:57):
a handle, mind you, a vue all by herself, like
that was her beverage for the night. I was, you know,
I like a good, a stiff drink, sure as much
as the rest of them. But I was taken aback.
But here's the thing with the story about from ut. Yeah,
it turned out that it was very important to the
(35:19):
father of this young man and the fraternity and their
lawyers to make it very clear that no butt chugging
took place. In fact, there is a delightful clip you
can find. We're not going to play it here. You
can see that if you want, where their lawyer says
the phrase butt chugging no less than fifteen times in
this press conference, and it is is a hoot, he
(35:42):
claimed the boy that he was participating in a party
called the Tour of Franzia, because when they went back
to investigate the scene, they found like those wine box
bags if you open up the box of wine, sometimes
a space bag. They found the littered everywhere and a
lot of passed out fraternity brothers there. And the Tour
(36:05):
of Frenzias, I guess where you just drink bad white
zinfandel until you black out.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Sounds like a very niche audience. Here are a very
niche party. But despite the hilarious name of butt chugging,
the dangers and effects of this are very real.
Speaker 4 (36:23):
Like you really owned it when you said at that time, Ben.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
You know what's funny about this nol is we hope
everyone has enjoyed learning about these ritualistic practices that, maybe
with different aims, continue today in the modern world. But
I gotta tell you, man, I am I'm a little
at odds about how best to end this, because it's
(36:53):
lovely when we end on questions so we can hear
from you friends and neighbors. But I think we should
be careful what questions we ask on this one.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
I think we should do it. I would like to
do a little PSA here and say, kids, don't put
alcohol in your butt. No, just don't do it. Don't
do it. Just don't do it. Don't do it. They're
not worth it.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
There are better things you can do.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
You can reach the spirit realm naturally.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
You can meditate, exercise, yeah, you can climate tree, yeah,
climate tree. You know what, Go look at the stars.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
They're beautiful this time of year, they're beautiful.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
All the time. And on that note, oh no, you
know what it is.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
It's been so long.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
I didn't think it was ever going to happen again.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
It's always going to happen.
Speaker 6 (37:41):
It's time, gentlemen.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Jonathan Strickland the quizt you've returned yet again to be
deevil Us with fact and.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Fiction, and you're in top wickedly gleeful form.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
My friend, I mean my bitter enemy.
Speaker 6 (37:56):
Yes, flattery, you will get your No.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
So this is again there's a surprise to us, as
it always seems to be when we're about to end
the episode. This is the part of Ridiculous history where
in our long standing nemesis Jonathan Strickland. The quister returns
to give us a fact, and Nolan and I must
(38:21):
determine whether it is true or it is false.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
We have three.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Minutes, yes, and that that timer on this gigantic grandfather
clock behind us does not start until after you have
stated the plane.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
It's more of a great grandfather clock, isn't it.
Speaker 6 (38:38):
And we should point out that I also always give
you an arbitrary rule you must follow, yes every time.
This time, because we are talking about alcohol, I got
your nice, a nice adult beverage. So before any question
you must pop that open, take us wig and then
(39:00):
say I got I got one for you Quist.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
And just to you, have you had a few? You
sound a little define a few?
Speaker 1 (39:09):
The word the euphemism I've always liked to use is charming.
No I think Noel saying you sound a bit.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Charming, no Quist is nothing if not charming.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
That's true.
Speaker 6 (39:19):
I'm so charming. The room is spinning right now.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Okay, all right, I hope that you administer this alcohol
orally well you know that is young.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
It's fair sure, so we uh, we will have to
pop the first time we asked something, and then after
that just.
Speaker 6 (39:35):
Sidright, assuming that you have to ask anything at all.
You may you may feel very confident to not have
to ask any questions.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
And just to point out to the listeners at home,
it is approaching five, so I think it's it's perfectly.
Speaker 6 (39:47):
Appropriated arms somewhere.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
Indeed, all right, let's do this.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Sorry, I knock it out.
Speaker 6 (39:52):
Here's your scenario, and guess what what, it's a long one.
Here we go.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Since nineteen sixty three, every.
Speaker 6 (40:02):
Year on January fifteenth, in Nozawa, Onsen, Japan, there is
an interesting sake fueled ritual that pits villagers against each other,
all in the name of the Shinto religion. All men
who are either twenty five or forty two years old
are conscripted to guard a wooden shrine constructed just for
(40:25):
the event. The men are encouraged to drink sake, a
lot of it, like half a gallon of the stuff
of more. The purpose for drinking that much is to
imbue the young men with the courage to face what
comes next. That next thing is a priest endows the
shrine with a dosogin, or a protective travel spirit associated
(40:49):
with crossroads. The drunken twenty five and forty two year
olds must then defend the shrine against all the other
men of the village, who arm themselves with torchu is
an attempt to burn the shrine down. At least one
person has died from injury sustained in this yearly festival,
and many receive serious injuries. The whole ceremony originally was
(41:11):
meant to encourage a good harvest. These days it's also
to wish for a profitable skiing season.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
You need some water man begin, okay.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
All right, I am officially starting the timer.
Speaker 6 (41:28):
I get one for you, hemy mistard. All right?
Speaker 1 (41:30):
So why are they only twenty five and forty two?
And they're not arranged?
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Right?
Speaker 1 (41:37):
It's not everyone twenty five to forty two, it's those
ages specific.
Speaker 6 (41:41):
An excellent question. Many Japanese traditions are based in superstition
in the festival is no different with the twenty five
and forty two year old in the village chosen to
take on the special roles because those are the so
called unlucky ages for men.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
Of course, he had an answer for him.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
That's you know, that's almost suspicious. There we go, there
we go.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Why are you so horrible?
Speaker 6 (42:07):
It just comes naturally, I guess.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
That's fair, that's it. Yeah, I don't know, man, I
thought you were bringing the fire. I got no. He
puts out my fire. He extinguishes me like like one
of those torches. And this potentially untrue story.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
So we're at two minutes. Hang on, they got one
for you, all right, hear me, mister, what is what?
What year did this originate?
Speaker 2 (42:33):
In?
Speaker 4 (42:33):
It again?
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Eighteen sixty three?
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Crypt uh damn it?
Speaker 2 (42:41):
There you go?
Speaker 6 (42:42):
All right? Yeah, what turning back up on him?
Speaker 2 (42:45):
What is the uh?
Speaker 1 (42:47):
What town is it in again?
Speaker 6 (42:48):
It's it's in Nosala, just at the base of a
mountain range.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Oh what is this like some kind of generic just
just beer?
Speaker 6 (43:01):
Yep, it just just store brand beer in a white
can with a word beer.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Honest, it's skunky. It's like a prop you'd see in
a movie.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
I couldn't at least bring natty like.
Speaker 6 (43:11):
I honestly found it like in the basement. But go ahead.
Speaker 4 (43:15):
Yeah, I don't know, man.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
There's so many things like can't you just give us
a quick a to be kind of like scenario?
Speaker 6 (43:22):
This was a quick one.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
No, no, well we are.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
At fifty seconds.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Okay, what the torches? The burning down? Why the men?
I think it's not true. It seems like Ben that
there's parts of this. I know there are rituals like
this that they do. There's like the Saki ceremonies where
they even like, you know, spit the fermented the rice
and the lily put they make their sake, spit the rice,
(43:47):
chew it up and spit it into a queue, and
then they cover it and bury it and then it's
like a whole thing. It was in a movie I saw.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
I just feel because I'm such an optimistic person. I
feel burned every time I guess. And it's not you know, okay,
I just want to believe in stuff too much.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
I know, I know, I guess. I just feel like, what,
what are they risk burning down infrastructure?
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Yeah, you want to go not true? Five four three, Okay,
we're gonna lock it. We didn't lock it in yet.
Stop licking at me that way, twister. That's our time.
He's given me a look. You know, you never know
with Okay, all right, we'll say it.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Then just do it. Not true, you poor idiots, you
poor idiots.
Speaker 6 (44:28):
It's true, son of us, It is absolutely true. I
gave you this on a platter.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
I did you say platter or platter.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
Listen, I've had a few, all right. Listen, listen, listen,
man bowling listen. I had to make sure it was
good stuff that I brought you. Listen, all right.
Speaker 6 (44:50):
So anyway, yeah, no, this is one of the three
big fire festivals of Japan. It's actually one of the
most famous. Has been covered with various news outlets NPR,
and I mean it was the internet is lousy with
information about this thing, and I thought for sure one
of you would have heard about it, since it's so
creat So.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
I feel have you heard about the one with the
rice though? Where they spits that one?
Speaker 6 (45:13):
So what is happening here is the dosojin is as
a Shinto spirit that is considered to be a kindly
spirit that helps travelers, and so the priests from the
nearby shrine supposedly imbuse this temporary shrine, this model of
a shrine that's been constructed over the course of a
(45:35):
few days by about one hundred villagers with the spirit
of a dos Ojen. The whole purpose is to burn
it's it's it's almost like an offering, and so they
build a big bonfire out of various pieces of very
flammable stuff and lots of the tall dolls and things
that represent various elements of the culture. And then the
(45:56):
men of the village they light their torches. They are
supposed to eventually burn the thing down. I think that's
also one of the reasons why the defenders are encouraged
to get almost blackout drunk.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
It seems dangerous with fire.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Yeah, that's righting a guy died and lots of people
get day.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
In my defense, in our defense, when you say shrine
and you're talking about like a village, I think I'm
picturing like a building that's meant to stay there.
Speaker 6 (46:26):
No, this was absolutely just constructed for the purpose at
the festival.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
That's what threw me. That's what for me.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
And a lot of those buildings are created from wood
rather than still.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Yes, this one is like you risk burning down the
whole village though, Like, yeah.
Speaker 6 (46:38):
The pictures of this, by the way, are phenomenal. It
happens January fifteenth every year. So if you guys, you know,
we don't want to do a ridiculous history on the road,
I'm just.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Saying extra credit January fifteenth, be there. Yeah, let's get
the bosses to pop for Japan tickets.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Yeah, lend. Just for fun, let's find one of our
coworkers that is either forty two or twenty five and
not tell them what's going down to Waylan.
Speaker 6 (47:01):
You know what age I am this year? Right, forty two?
I just missed it.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Well done? Yeah, well, I can't even be mad. That
was good.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
I love learning new stuff nol. So, although Quister, I
do feel like you put a lot more work into
gloating about today than you did into doing the question,
I applaud you.
Speaker 6 (47:25):
I gave you so many hints for one thing. Just
the last time I was on here, you mentioned that
when I do a really long one, it means it's fake.
I did another really long one just so that you
would know it was real, and you still chose.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
To tell by the way you were looking at me.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Man, I should have flipped it. Should have. Yeah, But
we're a team. We are a team.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
We're a team team. I don't want to do a
last minute flip. And we have your back. Folks, thank
you so much for tuning in, and Quister, thank you
for coming on the show.
Speaker 6 (47:58):
Enjoy your beer.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
They thank you for the Thank you for the unlabeled.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Generic basement beer. Not to say swill.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Well, that's it for us today. However, if you would
like to learn more Ridiculous history, if you would like
to hang out with your fellow Ridiculous historians, boy, do
we have good news for you.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Yeah, you can do it on the Facebook. You can
just go on the Facebook page for the show, or
if you want to take it up a not you
can join our Facebook group, the Ridiculous Historians. Where I
hear that pretty soon we're going to see pictures of
super producer cases, very lucrative childhood modeling career right headshots here,
there's catalog spreads spreads. Yeah, you know, probably gonna be
(48:39):
some Oshkosh goosh involved.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
We'll get to see him with an assortment of fake
parrots on what I hear.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Yeah, good stuff, good times over, good times over on
the Ridiculous Historians. You can also do us a solid
and leave us a kindly review on iTunes cause you know,
why wouldn't you.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
Yeah, we always like to hear from you, and do
remember to tune in for our next episode where we
nailed down the mystery behind the name of California.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
Spoiler alert involves a badass Amazonian queen and weaponized Griffins.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Yes, yes, yes, what the heck are you guys talking about.
We'll find out on our very next episode. In the meantime,
that's all for today. Thank you so much if you
are participating in any of the stuff we mentioned in
this topic. Not to sound too much like a worry warp,
but we, all of us, the Quister and Casey included,
(49:40):
hope that you are safe and make responsible decisions.
Speaker 6 (49:43):
Indeed, I can't open the door, guys, I can't. I can't.
I'm too far gone.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
It's because your hands are so tiny. Let's get some
torches from One more podcast from iHeartRadio. Visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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