September 28, 2024 • 27 mins
The Day of the Dead is a longstanding traditional celebration in Mexico, and currently hundreds of thousands of people associate it with a gigantic parade -- you know, like the one they saw in the James Bond film "Spectre". There's just one strange twist about that parade: before the movie, the procession didn't exist. Join Ben and Noel as they trace the weird evolution of this event from fiction to the real world in this week's Classic episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous Historians. Welcome back to our classic episode. For this week,
we often talk about espionage. We love it, you love
it too. That's Max Williams. That's Noel Brown. I'm Ben Bolin.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
We get James Bond joining us in tonight's conversation.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Bond, James Bond, Yes, Yeah, doubles seven.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yeah, the guy who is such a crap spy that
he announces his real name in every situation.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Ah, Ben, I disagree. I think it just indicates his
extreme levels of confidence in his ability to get the
job done. Brown, Noel Brown, it's sexy man. Now Martini,
what is it? Have you ever had a Vesper Martini?
It's illegal for you to ask me this. That's fair well, okay, folks,
if you ever want to try the martini of choice
for mister James Brown, it is the Vesper and it
(00:55):
is quite a light and refreshing cocktail if you're into it,
not the heavy olivin of a traditional Martine. It's a
little bit more on the citrusy side. But we're talking
about the Daniel Craig James Bond, right, not the Sean Connery,
not the Roger Moore or you know the other ones.
But I think Daniel Craig was an excellent James Bond.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
And it turns out that our fictional character in the
Daniel Craig film adaptation may have indeed played a role
in creating a tradition that continues to this day. Dia
de las Mertos and Parker, Let's roll it Ridiculous History
(01:39):
is a production of iHeartRadio. Let's paint a scene for
(02:08):
you to begin this episode.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Shall we use a broad brush, let us.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Use a broad brush, let us use several brushes. We're
gonna need a lot of black and white paint for
this one.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Okay, I think I see where you're going with this.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
So the world renowned secret agent Double O seven himself,
James Bond, gets a message that leads him on an
unauthorized mission into Mexico City on the Day of the Dead.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Hi, I'm Bad Brown, Noeld Brown. It's not bad. I
don't know, No I can that good. I liked I
like that. I like the Connery, the Connery Bond voice,
James spawn tream spawnup. I don't even know. Yeah, I
(03:07):
am Noel Brown. In fact, right, you may have thought
that someone else was here that sounded different not true.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
You know who else is here though, Noel Brown, Oh
boy do I our super producer, Casey Pegram And most importantly,
we're so glad that you are here because in today's
episode we learned something very very strange. Noel, could could
you help me describe this opening scene from the film Specter?
(03:38):
Should we say spoilers?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I don't know, it's not really is it is like
the opening sequence, Yeah, it's the opening sequence. Yeah. I
don't remember that movie particularly well, though I do remember
this scene. He basically Bond is on a high speed
foot chase, kind of not really high speed, you know,
running speed. It's not like a yeah he's in pursuit.
(04:00):
He's in pursuit, hot pursuit. There we go of some
sort of battie again, don't don't really remember the deaths
of the plot, but he ends up bobbing and weaving
through this massive Dia Dellas Muertos parade festival, surrounded by
giant floats adorned with skeletons with like puppet type rods
attest to the hands. So they're going and then you know,
(04:23):
sugar skulls, and yeah, one of the skeletons has like
a big cigar in his mouth and a top hat
and it's you know, very festive. N streets are.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Packed Mardi Gras level and their Bond is trying to
stop a terrorist bombing. Oh god, so he's trying to
find the needle in the haystack here right right now.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
It's coming back to me. And because this.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Is the beginning of the movie, I don't think it's
going to ruin it for any of us out there
when we say he survives.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yep, it's not.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
It's not setting the record for the shortest Bond movie.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
It's weird. This is He's sort of a a doctor
Who type situation that whenever there's a new James Bond,
is it like just like a cold reboot? Are we
supposed to believe that this is the only James Bond and.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
No one acknowledges that the Bond has changed.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
It's just like when they recast a character in a
sitcom and it throws me off, Like the character in
Family Matters when they switched out.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Which one, Kimmy it was the Judy Winslow.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I think, oh that's right, Okay, yeah, sorry, I always
confuse Family Matters in Full House. In my mind, they
had very similar themes, but you know, are like in
Rosanna or whatever. We digress, however, because James Bond, he did
you know, he diffuses the terrorist bomb. But here's the thing,
this parade that he was a part of in the
streets of Mexico City, not not a thing does not exist, man, manufactured.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Did not exist. And I just want to show you, nol.
I think you'll enjoy this. This is the suit that
James Bond is wearing. Yeah, he's got he's got a
top hat. He's got a cheeky little vest on with
a with a rib motif.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
And it looks like he's wearing like sort of a
black and white striped shirt underneath it, but it's kind
of peeking through just so that it looks like a center,
like a spine, Yeah, like a vertebrae. He is very
dappered up, and he's of course got a skeleton mask on.
Here's the thing, though a little culturally appropriative perhaps, Oh yeah,
what do you think? What do you think? Man?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
I don't know, So how about this, Let's step back
a little and look at what the Day of the
Dead actually is.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
What do you say? Let's do? All right?
Speaker 1 (06:35):
So the Day of the Dead in a sentence, is
a holiday that's celebrated throughout Mexico, the Mexican diaspora, including
Central and South regions of Mexico.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
And Latin America in general. I believe they do it,
and yeah, and in Brazil, and.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
It's also celebrated in the United States and many other cultures.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
It's not college, it's.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Not one of those hearing gone holidays. It actually lasts
for multiple days.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah. So that span of time is October thirty first
is All Hallows Eve or Halloween. Then on November first,
you have Doo Dellas Inacentis or All Saints Day. I've
also heard it referred to as the Day of the Children.
And then you've got the kicker on November two, with
the Day of the Dead or All Souls Day or
(07:28):
Doo Dellas Muertos.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
And this is a very community based, family driven kind
of celebration.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Traditionally all about family.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Right right, You build private altars called ofrendas. You're honoring
your loved ones who have passed on.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Not worshiping, mind you, honoring honoring.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Very very important difference. And you some of this honoring
includes leaving their preparing their favorite foods or bringing them
their favorite beverages. Visiting grays with these as gifts, you
will also leave possessions of the ones.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Who have passed. Did you say photographs, No, we didn't
say photographs. That is very very important, right, because in fact,
I don't know if you've seen the movie Coco, the
Pixar movie, it's it's a wonderful, wonderful movie. It surrounds
that this whole Day of the Dead tradition, and the
device they use in the in the movie is that
as soon as people stop remembering you in the afterlife,
(08:25):
you disappear, you cease to you cease to exist. And
on the Day of the Dead in the movie, all
of these loved ones get to come back and visit
with their family members. They don't they can't speak to
each other, but they're there and they you know, the
family members know they're there, and it's personified beautifully in
this film. But the way they get their ticket across
the Bridge of Souls or whatever it's called, which is
(08:48):
they're guided by Mary gold pedals. That's another tradition, right,
And this all lines up with the truth because in
Latin America they they go to graveyards at night and
do this. But it's not a bookie affair because many
of these graveyards are not owned by private companies like
they are here in the States, but they're owned by
the community. So the community has to keep them up.
(09:10):
So every year they'll pull weeds, they'll beautify the area
around the graves, and you know, do all the things
we talked about. Put these little trinkets and pictures. But
pictures are important in the movie, at least in Coco,
because that's what gives them their ticket. And if you
don't put the picture up, you can't come back and visit.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
So this is this is amazing. I think that's beautiful.
And when I've encountered this sort of cultural relationship with death,
it seems I'm gonna go out on a limb here.
This is just one guy's opinion. It just seems like
a more healthy way to approach mortality.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Very grounding, as opposed to it being something to fear
and to mourn. And there's certainly an element of mourning,
but it doesn't fear.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah, Yeah, there's there's more of a it's I miss you,
but it's more about I love right right, honoring, Yeah,
and it's also a very old practice, or at least
the predecessors, right, This dates back twenty five hundred three
thousand years into pre Columbian cultures. When we say dates back,
(10:15):
we mean that there was some sort of celebration commemorating
the deaths of ancestors and the festival that forms the
basis of the modern Day of the Dead. It occurred
around the beginning of August and it lasted for a month.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
This was in the Aztec and tull Tech cultures and
the Nahua people, and this is all these are considered
pre Hispanic cultures. There's a really cool article on the
travel section of National Geographic called top ten things you
should know about the Day of the Dead. And one
of the things I learned on here is that the
Day of the Dead has UNESCO Cultural Heritage designation. And
(10:58):
I did not know that events or holidays could get
this designation, but it turns out that they can, and
it's recognized as having an intangible cultural heritage of humanity, which.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Makes perfect sense when you think about it, because this
is another example of a practice that we've talked about
on a couple of other shows or episodes of other
shows called religious syncretism and religious syncretism is the idea
that differing spiritual beliefs can be incorporated into the same
(11:36):
unified belief system or someone.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
That's why you'll.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
See places that had a lot of Catholic influence in
the past retain original spiritual practices, but then have the
names of saints incorporated into the pantheon or something. So
now when we look at this celebration in the modern
(11:59):
days before itself, at least, we see a very Catholic
celebration and Catholic tinged. That's right, But originally we're talking
about this meso American experience. The Aztecs, for instance, believed
there were multiple planes of existence that were separate but interrelated,
sort of what Coco is building off of, and they
(12:21):
envisioned a world that had thirteen overworlds layers of heaven
ooh heady, and then nine underworlds in each level had
their own different characteristics and particular gods who ruled them.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
That's interesting too, because that sort of seems in line
with like Dante's Inferno and like the circles of Hell,
you know, like having different layers of the underworld. Which
is funny too, when when the underworld is referred to
less as a place of damnation and suffering and more
of just that is the afterlife, the underworld.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, and the festival. The original month long festival paid
tribute to the Lord and Lady of the Underworld along
with their ancestors Mikdlan Tekuliti which I am probably butchering
and his wife Milan Quihatl, and they lived in Michlan,
the land of the Dead.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
It's cool. It's very different from Catholicism, it really is.
And I think it's so cool the way you can
see the evolution of this this holiday and this tradition
up to the current day. So let's talk about some
of the features of this tradition.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Oh, I'm so glad you said that. Okay, no, no,
your first, you first.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Well, there's some really cool stuff. One thing we talked
about the the a friend as the altars that are
meant to remember and honor are lost family members. They
have these things called literary calaveras, which in calavera actually
means skull, but in the eighteenth the nineteenth centuries that
(13:58):
term was used to describe I kind of a little poem,
like a little limericky kind of thing sort of akin
to an epitaph, but sort of tongue in cheek. So
here's an example of one. The idea of the calvera
kind of dates back to this idea of the dance
macabre in French or the danza macabren Spanish and Italian,
(14:19):
which is a type of play that was performed in
the fourteenth century where you dance with death, and it's
sort of this idea of making peace with your relationship
with death, very similar, and from that in Mexico it
was developed into these kind of fun, little poignant, little
tongue in cheek poems that are meant to sort of
poke fun at a cultural figures often. So here's one
(14:41):
called the Bullfighter. Here lies a good bullfighter who died
of grief from being a bad bandeleero. And the Bandalero
is the one that sticks the flags into the bowl
with the list of the pointy sword things right bood
at each performance. He has died of a tumble received
on the rear, and such was his foolishness that he
(15:02):
was already in the tomb turned into skull and bones
and fighting the dead.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
So there's not a nihilism. There's an acceptance. Here there's
a well it's happening anyway kind of recognition of life's passages.
It's it's cool too from a thanatological perspective, thanatology being
the study of death, to see how culture wide this
(15:28):
sort of removes to a great degree the stigma associated
with mortality. Also, I know we both want to examine
this part. The food. Oh yeah, there's there's traditional food
that's often cooked, hears saying the same way that marigolds
(15:49):
are the primary pedals used to decorate your grave. The
bread of the dead or pandemuerro, is a sweet bread
that has aniseeds and it's rated with bones and skulls
made out of dough. They might be arranged in a circle.
There are tiny dough teardrops that symbolize sorrow, and they're
(16:10):
also sugar skulls.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
And some of them have like caramel on them or
powdered sugar or different like orange zest I think is
one of the ingredients. They kind of look like cala
bread from the Jewish tradition, really really beautiful and they've
got that really nice shiny egg washed kind of quality,
so that that is a very popular dish. And then
of course they're you know, there are traditional Latin American
(16:33):
dishes that are often reserved for special occasions that are
busted out on Dia delis Martos, things like flawn, caramel flawn,
or soapapillas or something called Calabaza antasha, which is a
candied pumpkin dessert enchiladas and is the delicious, oh my gosh,
(16:54):
tinga poblana del poyo. This is like a Mexican stew.
A lot of these things. If you ever find yourself
in the Atlanta area, PA, you gotta go to Plaza
Fiesta and I'll tell you, I can't quite remember the
name of the place, but it's it's in one of
the back little coves. It's not in the main food court,
and it's called something like Tropical Island Delight or something
(17:15):
like that makes no sense and doesn't seem to have
anything to do with it. And you know, it's kind
of like the Spot because it's always crowded, but not overcrowded,
because you know that like it's kind of like a
hidden jewel, and that's what I like about it. But
amazing Tomali's and all of this stuff red chili and
pork tomales pizzole, which is like a chicken soup with
homini in it. So good, so good.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
There are also traditional beverages.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
This is no we said that.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
This parade didn't exist when it was depicted Inspector. But
that's not to say that Day of the Dead is
not a social holiday. People do go out in the streets,
they greet each other. They you will see people who
might be wearing a skeleton costume.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Absolutely, and you know, one of the officials in the
Tourism department of Mexico City was quick to say that
this is a festival. This is not a replacement for
the very personal traditions of Day of the Dead. This
is also not to say that Day of the Dead
wasn't happening in Mexico City. That's not true at all.
It's just much more of a thing you do at
home with your families, or a thing you do where
(18:19):
you go visit the gravesites, as opposed to some sort
of Marty Gras esque parade, which is what was depicted
in the film and what has since been recreated in
Mexico City. That's right.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
In an article for The Guardian, journalist David Agrin discusses
this phenomenon. You can find it with the headline Mexico
City's James Bond inspired Day of the Dead parade gets
mixed reviews. Swamp wamp wah, Yes, well done, good time
you're on the sound cue. Because after Specter, a lot
(18:49):
of people who watched this film around the world just
assumed that this parade happened.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
And I think that's where I kind of have a
bone to pick with this cultural appropriation and like turning
a beautiful tradition, a cultural tradition, into a set piece
for a footchase, and it's a serious tradition. Yes, that's
the thing, And what we're seeing in this article is
that is what I was saying a minute ago. It's
not to say that Mexico City was not celebrating Day
of the Dead, but it was much more personal, a
(19:19):
very deeply spiritual tradition in Mexico, and they decided to
turn it into a festival. And Enrique de la Madrid,
who's the secretary of Tourism for Mexico, he kind of
defends it when he says this. He says, Day of
the Dead is always something in Mexico City that is celebrated,
though in a more serious way. What we decided to
do here is a festival. So yeah, it seems like
(19:42):
there's a little bit of lip service being paid there.
I don't know, they're trying to get those tourist bucks.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Well we yeah, we should also point out, just to
highlight this, it is not as if some sort of
outside group came in and said, we're going to produce
a festival every year. It is is the city of
Mexico City itself, their actual government, and thousands of people
came to this parade. Of people participated in it. The
(20:10):
many people said, you know what, this is fine. I
enjoy this and I can still do the traditional serious stuff.
But people on social media saw this as a symptom
of an ongoing larger problem with the government of Mexico City.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
That's right. Esteban Ilades tweeted, this is a cheap stunt.
He's the editor of a magazine called Nexos. They filmed
James Bond here and now we have the traditional Day
of the Dead parade. Yeah, let's see what happens when
the mayor finishes reading the Da Vinci code. Oooh that
was a SICKI burn some alo for that one.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Casey can we get a sizzle sound cute. This also
was seen as just another scheme by the same people
who opened the world's biggest ice rink, built urban beaches
(21:09):
and this this is again is the journalist the journalist
quotation here, but I love it and having a fetish
for setting world records, such as taking the biggest ever selfie.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
The biggest like largest in size or.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
I guess the biggest the largest amount of people. It's
not like Mexico City as an army can hold. It's
not really a selfie if it's a group though, isn't
that's true? Is it the tallest man in the world,
take it as selfie the giantest head. Yeah, let us know,
yeah and yeah right to the you know, put us
in touch with the folks at Guinness.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Tell me we did an episode on them. Have you heard
the deal? How Guinness is now more in the business
of like they will come to you and do an
event where you can attempt to break a record. Like
It's become much more of a destination, like like a
wedding or like a party they throw and there's different
packages so it's a lot easier to get the record
if you have boukou bucks to throw at Guinness and
(22:07):
have them come do this event. It's really interesting that
might be an episode unto itself. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, everything's been commodified increasingly. At least that's what the
opponents of the Day of the Dead parade would say.
And we also want to know where you fall on this,
on which side of this debate you fall and do
you feel like this is a soulless rush to monetize
something or do you think that this is another step
(22:35):
in the evolution of Day of the Dead. I mean,
we barely touched upon the Spanish influences.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
I know, touch on some for me, all right, As.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
You can find in an MPR article Decoding the Food
and Drink on a Day of the Dead Altar by
Karen Castillo Farfan, the Spanish conquest put Catholic leaders in
a what we've said before on the show is very
terrible mindset. The idea that they would assimilate these people
(23:05):
and by leading them to what they saw as the
truth of Catholicism, any means they took justified that noble end.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
So they exerted their influence on everything. It was very
ideologically based, and one of those was their influence on
the tradition that was meant to honor the dead. So
they ended up they ended up saying this would this
would overlap with pre existing Catholic holidays, and that's why
(23:34):
you see this all Soul's Day stuff going.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
On, That's right, That's why they line it up with
those calendar days, right, Yeah, And that affects it.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
But also, you know, this is a region that, despite
having these meso American pre Columbian practices, is still largely
very Catholic in terms of demographics. Sure, these are not
seen as contradictories.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
So the evolution was par for the core because this
started off as a pre Hispanic tradition and then you're
talking about that influence on these indigenous people of the
region by the Spanish. They kind of had to co
opt this tradition and sort of give it a little twists, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
So is this parade another step in that ongoing evolution,
and if so, is it a step in a good direction,
a bad direction, or neutral direction. One thing we can
say for sure, however, is that this is not the
only case in which a fictional event has prompted a
(24:35):
real world change.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Oh hit me with one.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I would love to, and we also think and hope
that you would love to hear one two folks, but
unfortunately the ones we found are so good they will
have to be their own episodes. One in particular, you
know the one I'm thinking about.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
You're talking about the Sir Arthur Conan Doyle crime bustin story.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yes, we are, that's true. The creator of Sherlock Holmes,
it turns out, wasn't just talking the talk I want
to say, writing the words. Yeah, he's also doing the dirt.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
He was doing the dirds.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
There we go, We got there. We hope that you
enjoyed this exploration of the relationship that fiction can have
with the real world. And we'd like to hear your
examples of other bits about this.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
And not only that. Have you been to a Doo
Delas Martos event, one of the kind of more you know,
they're maybe losing the spiritual a little bit. We've beene
of these street festivals or is this a tradition in
your family? I would love to hear some inside information
on that. Please. You can write to us at Ridiculous
at HowStuffWorks dot com. You can hit us up on
the social meds at the Facebook where we are Ridiculous History.
(25:50):
Give a look at our Facebook group, the Ridiculous Historians.
We are really looking forward to mining it for some
future episode ideas.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yes, and we also we also just found this soundbites
noise maker in the studio, so we should probably get
out of here.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
And do you want to hear a sound effect? Sure? Man, Okay,
let's go joos wisely. Okay, there's we'll go safe, We'll
go applause. Okay.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
So we'd like to thank Casey Pegram, our super producer,
Casey sincerely, thank you, of course, thanks to Alex Williams,
Christopher Hasiotis, Noel Brown, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Ben As I live and breathe thanks to you. And
we're sitting here the whole time.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I know it was me the whole time. I know,
like at the very end of the sixth sense when
everyone goes.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Hey, Willis whoa I know, come on now, no spoilers, No,
that was good. I stole that joke from Always Sunny
in Philadelphia. That's true. That was Bruce Willis Phillot time.
It's true. And we hope you continue being you the
whole time because we really like you. We really like
hanging out with you and stay tuned. Next week, we're
gonna be talking about a.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Thing, right, specifically, how the capture of Guam was bloodless
and quick entirely due to a misunderstanding.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
That sounds like a pretty sweet misunderstanding. I can't wait
to hear all about it, or you know, tell you
all about it. It's a fifty to fifty thing. Yeah,
we have a back and forth, all right. For more
(27:21):
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous Historians. Welcome back to our classic episode. For this week,
we often talk about espionage. We love it, you love
it too. That's Max Williams. That's Noel Brown. I'm Ben Bolin.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
We get James Bond joining us in tonight's conversation.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Bond, James Bond, Yes, Yeah, doubles seven.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yeah, the guy who is such a crap spy that
he announces his real name in every situation.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Ah, Ben, I disagree. I think it just indicates his
extreme levels of confidence in his ability to get the
job done. Brown, Noel Brown, it's sexy man. Now Martini,
what is it? Have you ever had a Vesper Martini?
It's illegal for you to ask me this. That's fair well, okay, folks,
if you ever want to try the martini of choice
for mister James Brown, it is the Vesper and it
(00:55):
is quite a light and refreshing cocktail if you're into it,
not the heavy olivin of a traditional Martine. It's a
little bit more on the citrusy side. But we're talking
about the Daniel Craig James Bond, right, not the Sean Connery,
not the Roger Moore or you know the other ones.
But I think Daniel Craig was an excellent James Bond.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
And it turns out that our fictional character in the
Daniel Craig film adaptation may have indeed played a role
in creating a tradition that continues to this day. Dia
de las Mertos and Parker, Let's roll it Ridiculous History
(01:39):
is a production of iHeartRadio. Let's paint a scene for
(02:08):
you to begin this episode.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Shall we use a broad brush, let us.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Use a broad brush, let us use several brushes. We're
gonna need a lot of black and white paint for
this one.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Okay, I think I see where you're going with this.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
So the world renowned secret agent Double O seven himself,
James Bond, gets a message that leads him on an
unauthorized mission into Mexico City on the Day of the Dead.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Hi, I'm Bad Brown, Noeld Brown. It's not bad. I
don't know, No I can that good. I liked I
like that. I like the Connery, the Connery Bond voice,
James spawn tream spawnup. I don't even know. Yeah, I
(03:07):
am Noel Brown. In fact, right, you may have thought
that someone else was here that sounded different not true.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
You know who else is here though, Noel Brown, Oh
boy do I our super producer, Casey Pegram And most importantly,
we're so glad that you are here because in today's
episode we learned something very very strange. Noel, could could
you help me describe this opening scene from the film Specter?
(03:38):
Should we say spoilers?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I don't know, it's not really is it is like
the opening sequence, Yeah, it's the opening sequence. Yeah. I
don't remember that movie particularly well, though I do remember
this scene. He basically Bond is on a high speed
foot chase, kind of not really high speed, you know,
running speed. It's not like a yeah he's in pursuit.
(04:00):
He's in pursuit, hot pursuit. There we go of some
sort of battie again, don't don't really remember the deaths
of the plot, but he ends up bobbing and weaving
through this massive Dia Dellas Muertos parade festival, surrounded by
giant floats adorned with skeletons with like puppet type rods
attest to the hands. So they're going and then you know,
(04:23):
sugar skulls, and yeah, one of the skeletons has like
a big cigar in his mouth and a top hat
and it's you know, very festive. N streets are.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Packed Mardi Gras level and their Bond is trying to
stop a terrorist bombing. Oh god, so he's trying to
find the needle in the haystack here right right now.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
It's coming back to me. And because this.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Is the beginning of the movie, I don't think it's
going to ruin it for any of us out there
when we say he survives.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yep, it's not.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
It's not setting the record for the shortest Bond movie.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
It's weird. This is He's sort of a a doctor
Who type situation that whenever there's a new James Bond,
is it like just like a cold reboot? Are we
supposed to believe that this is the only James Bond and.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
No one acknowledges that the Bond has changed.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
It's just like when they recast a character in a
sitcom and it throws me off, Like the character in
Family Matters when they switched out.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Which one, Kimmy it was the Judy Winslow.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I think, oh that's right, Okay, yeah, sorry, I always
confuse Family Matters in Full House. In my mind, they
had very similar themes, but you know, are like in
Rosanna or whatever. We digress, however, because James Bond, he did
you know, he diffuses the terrorist bomb. But here's the thing,
this parade that he was a part of in the
streets of Mexico City, not not a thing does not exist, man, manufactured.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Did not exist. And I just want to show you, nol.
I think you'll enjoy this. This is the suit that
James Bond is wearing. Yeah, he's got he's got a
top hat. He's got a cheeky little vest on with
a with a rib motif.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
And it looks like he's wearing like sort of a
black and white striped shirt underneath it, but it's kind
of peeking through just so that it looks like a center,
like a spine, Yeah, like a vertebrae. He is very
dappered up, and he's of course got a skeleton mask on.
Here's the thing, though a little culturally appropriative perhaps, Oh yeah,
what do you think? What do you think? Man?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
I don't know, So how about this, Let's step back
a little and look at what the Day of the
Dead actually is.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
What do you say? Let's do? All right?
Speaker 1 (06:35):
So the Day of the Dead in a sentence, is
a holiday that's celebrated throughout Mexico, the Mexican diaspora, including
Central and South regions of Mexico.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
And Latin America in general. I believe they do it,
and yeah, and in Brazil, and.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
It's also celebrated in the United States and many other cultures.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
It's not college, it's.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Not one of those hearing gone holidays. It actually lasts
for multiple days.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah. So that span of time is October thirty first
is All Hallows Eve or Halloween. Then on November first,
you have Doo Dellas Inacentis or All Saints Day. I've
also heard it referred to as the Day of the Children.
And then you've got the kicker on November two, with
the Day of the Dead or All Souls Day or
(07:28):
Doo Dellas Muertos.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
And this is a very community based, family driven kind
of celebration.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Traditionally all about family.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Right right, You build private altars called ofrendas. You're honoring
your loved ones who have passed on.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Not worshiping, mind you, honoring honoring.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Very very important difference. And you some of this honoring
includes leaving their preparing their favorite foods or bringing them
their favorite beverages. Visiting grays with these as gifts, you
will also leave possessions of the ones.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Who have passed. Did you say photographs, No, we didn't
say photographs. That is very very important, right, because in fact,
I don't know if you've seen the movie Coco, the
Pixar movie, it's it's a wonderful, wonderful movie. It surrounds
that this whole Day of the Dead tradition, and the
device they use in the in the movie is that
as soon as people stop remembering you in the afterlife,
(08:25):
you disappear, you cease to you cease to exist. And
on the Day of the Dead in the movie, all
of these loved ones get to come back and visit
with their family members. They don't they can't speak to
each other, but they're there and they you know, the
family members know they're there, and it's personified beautifully in
this film. But the way they get their ticket across
the Bridge of Souls or whatever it's called, which is
(08:48):
they're guided by Mary gold pedals. That's another tradition, right,
And this all lines up with the truth because in
Latin America they they go to graveyards at night and
do this. But it's not a bookie affair because many
of these graveyards are not owned by private companies like
they are here in the States, but they're owned by
the community. So the community has to keep them up.
(09:10):
So every year they'll pull weeds, they'll beautify the area
around the graves, and you know, do all the things
we talked about. Put these little trinkets and pictures. But
pictures are important in the movie, at least in Coco,
because that's what gives them their ticket. And if you
don't put the picture up, you can't come back and visit.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
So this is this is amazing. I think that's beautiful.
And when I've encountered this sort of cultural relationship with death,
it seems I'm gonna go out on a limb here.
This is just one guy's opinion. It just seems like
a more healthy way to approach mortality.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Very grounding, as opposed to it being something to fear
and to mourn. And there's certainly an element of mourning,
but it doesn't fear.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah, Yeah, there's there's more of a it's I miss you,
but it's more about I love right right, honoring, Yeah,
and it's also a very old practice, or at least
the predecessors, right, This dates back twenty five hundred three
thousand years into pre Columbian cultures. When we say dates back,
(10:15):
we mean that there was some sort of celebration commemorating
the deaths of ancestors and the festival that forms the
basis of the modern Day of the Dead. It occurred
around the beginning of August and it lasted for a month.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
This was in the Aztec and tull Tech cultures and
the Nahua people, and this is all these are considered
pre Hispanic cultures. There's a really cool article on the
travel section of National Geographic called top ten things you
should know about the Day of the Dead. And one
of the things I learned on here is that the
Day of the Dead has UNESCO Cultural Heritage designation. And
(10:58):
I did not know that events or holidays could get
this designation, but it turns out that they can, and
it's recognized as having an intangible cultural heritage of humanity, which.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Makes perfect sense when you think about it, because this
is another example of a practice that we've talked about
on a couple of other shows or episodes of other
shows called religious syncretism and religious syncretism is the idea
that differing spiritual beliefs can be incorporated into the same
(11:36):
unified belief system or someone.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
That's why you'll.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
See places that had a lot of Catholic influence in
the past retain original spiritual practices, but then have the
names of saints incorporated into the pantheon or something. So
now when we look at this celebration in the modern
(11:59):
days before itself, at least, we see a very Catholic
celebration and Catholic tinged. That's right, But originally we're talking
about this meso American experience. The Aztecs, for instance, believed
there were multiple planes of existence that were separate but interrelated,
sort of what Coco is building off of, and they
(12:21):
envisioned a world that had thirteen overworlds layers of heaven
ooh heady, and then nine underworlds in each level had
their own different characteristics and particular gods who ruled them.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
That's interesting too, because that sort of seems in line
with like Dante's Inferno and like the circles of Hell,
you know, like having different layers of the underworld. Which
is funny too, when when the underworld is referred to
less as a place of damnation and suffering and more
of just that is the afterlife, the underworld.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, and the festival. The original month long festival paid
tribute to the Lord and Lady of the Underworld along
with their ancestors Mikdlan Tekuliti which I am probably butchering
and his wife Milan Quihatl, and they lived in Michlan,
the land of the Dead.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
It's cool. It's very different from Catholicism, it really is.
And I think it's so cool the way you can
see the evolution of this this holiday and this tradition
up to the current day. So let's talk about some
of the features of this tradition.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Oh, I'm so glad you said that. Okay, no, no,
your first, you first.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Well, there's some really cool stuff. One thing we talked
about the the a friend as the altars that are
meant to remember and honor are lost family members. They
have these things called literary calaveras, which in calavera actually
means skull, but in the eighteenth the nineteenth centuries that
(13:58):
term was used to describe I kind of a little poem,
like a little limericky kind of thing sort of akin
to an epitaph, but sort of tongue in cheek. So
here's an example of one. The idea of the calvera
kind of dates back to this idea of the dance
macabre in French or the danza macabren Spanish and Italian,
(14:19):
which is a type of play that was performed in
the fourteenth century where you dance with death, and it's
sort of this idea of making peace with your relationship
with death, very similar, and from that in Mexico it
was developed into these kind of fun, little poignant, little
tongue in cheek poems that are meant to sort of
poke fun at a cultural figures often. So here's one
(14:41):
called the Bullfighter. Here lies a good bullfighter who died
of grief from being a bad bandeleero. And the Bandalero
is the one that sticks the flags into the bowl
with the list of the pointy sword things right bood
at each performance. He has died of a tumble received
on the rear, and such was his foolishness that he
(15:02):
was already in the tomb turned into skull and bones
and fighting the dead.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
So there's not a nihilism. There's an acceptance. Here there's
a well it's happening anyway kind of recognition of life's passages.
It's it's cool too from a thanatological perspective, thanatology being
the study of death, to see how culture wide this
(15:28):
sort of removes to a great degree the stigma associated
with mortality. Also, I know we both want to examine
this part. The food. Oh yeah, there's there's traditional food
that's often cooked, hears saying the same way that marigolds
(15:49):
are the primary pedals used to decorate your grave. The
bread of the dead or pandemuerro, is a sweet bread
that has aniseeds and it's rated with bones and skulls
made out of dough. They might be arranged in a circle.
There are tiny dough teardrops that symbolize sorrow, and they're
(16:10):
also sugar skulls.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
And some of them have like caramel on them or
powdered sugar or different like orange zest I think is
one of the ingredients. They kind of look like cala
bread from the Jewish tradition, really really beautiful and they've
got that really nice shiny egg washed kind of quality,
so that that is a very popular dish. And then
of course they're you know, there are traditional Latin American
(16:33):
dishes that are often reserved for special occasions that are
busted out on Dia delis Martos, things like flawn, caramel flawn,
or soapapillas or something called Calabaza antasha, which is a
candied pumpkin dessert enchiladas and is the delicious, oh my gosh,
(16:54):
tinga poblana del poyo. This is like a Mexican stew.
A lot of these things. If you ever find yourself
in the Atlanta area, PA, you gotta go to Plaza
Fiesta and I'll tell you, I can't quite remember the
name of the place, but it's it's in one of
the back little coves. It's not in the main food court,
and it's called something like Tropical Island Delight or something
(17:15):
like that makes no sense and doesn't seem to have
anything to do with it. And you know, it's kind
of like the Spot because it's always crowded, but not overcrowded,
because you know that like it's kind of like a
hidden jewel, and that's what I like about it. But
amazing Tomali's and all of this stuff red chili and
pork tomales pizzole, which is like a chicken soup with
homini in it. So good, so good.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
There are also traditional beverages.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
This is no we said that.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
This parade didn't exist when it was depicted Inspector. But
that's not to say that Day of the Dead is
not a social holiday. People do go out in the streets,
they greet each other. They you will see people who
might be wearing a skeleton costume.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Absolutely, and you know, one of the officials in the
Tourism department of Mexico City was quick to say that
this is a festival. This is not a replacement for
the very personal traditions of Day of the Dead. This
is also not to say that Day of the Dead
wasn't happening in Mexico City. That's not true at all.
It's just much more of a thing you do at
home with your families, or a thing you do where
(18:19):
you go visit the gravesites, as opposed to some sort
of Marty Gras esque parade, which is what was depicted
in the film and what has since been recreated in
Mexico City. That's right.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
In an article for The Guardian, journalist David Agrin discusses
this phenomenon. You can find it with the headline Mexico
City's James Bond inspired Day of the Dead parade gets
mixed reviews. Swamp wamp wah, Yes, well done, good time
you're on the sound cue. Because after Specter, a lot
(18:49):
of people who watched this film around the world just
assumed that this parade happened.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
And I think that's where I kind of have a
bone to pick with this cultural appropriation and like turning
a beautiful tradition, a cultural tradition, into a set piece
for a footchase, and it's a serious tradition. Yes, that's
the thing, And what we're seeing in this article is
that is what I was saying a minute ago. It's
not to say that Mexico City was not celebrating Day
of the Dead, but it was much more personal, a
(19:19):
very deeply spiritual tradition in Mexico, and they decided to
turn it into a festival. And Enrique de la Madrid,
who's the secretary of Tourism for Mexico, he kind of
defends it when he says this. He says, Day of
the Dead is always something in Mexico City that is celebrated,
though in a more serious way. What we decided to
do here is a festival. So yeah, it seems like
(19:42):
there's a little bit of lip service being paid there.
I don't know, they're trying to get those tourist bucks.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Well we yeah, we should also point out, just to
highlight this, it is not as if some sort of
outside group came in and said, we're going to produce
a festival every year. It is is the city of
Mexico City itself, their actual government, and thousands of people
came to this parade. Of people participated in it. The
(20:10):
many people said, you know what, this is fine. I
enjoy this and I can still do the traditional serious stuff.
But people on social media saw this as a symptom
of an ongoing larger problem with the government of Mexico City.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
That's right. Esteban Ilades tweeted, this is a cheap stunt.
He's the editor of a magazine called Nexos. They filmed
James Bond here and now we have the traditional Day
of the Dead parade. Yeah, let's see what happens when
the mayor finishes reading the Da Vinci code. Oooh that
was a SICKI burn some alo for that one.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Casey can we get a sizzle sound cute. This also
was seen as just another scheme by the same people
who opened the world's biggest ice rink, built urban beaches
(21:09):
and this this is again is the journalist the journalist
quotation here, but I love it and having a fetish
for setting world records, such as taking the biggest ever selfie.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
The biggest like largest in size or.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
I guess the biggest the largest amount of people. It's
not like Mexico City as an army can hold. It's
not really a selfie if it's a group though, isn't
that's true? Is it the tallest man in the world,
take it as selfie the giantest head. Yeah, let us know,
yeah and yeah right to the you know, put us
in touch with the folks at Guinness.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Tell me we did an episode on them. Have you heard
the deal? How Guinness is now more in the business
of like they will come to you and do an
event where you can attempt to break a record. Like
It's become much more of a destination, like like a
wedding or like a party they throw and there's different
packages so it's a lot easier to get the record
if you have boukou bucks to throw at Guinness and
(22:07):
have them come do this event. It's really interesting that
might be an episode unto itself. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, everything's been commodified increasingly. At least that's what the
opponents of the Day of the Dead parade would say.
And we also want to know where you fall on this,
on which side of this debate you fall and do
you feel like this is a soulless rush to monetize
something or do you think that this is another step
(22:35):
in the evolution of Day of the Dead. I mean,
we barely touched upon the Spanish influences.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
I know, touch on some for me, all right, As.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
You can find in an MPR article Decoding the Food
and Drink on a Day of the Dead Altar by
Karen Castillo Farfan, the Spanish conquest put Catholic leaders in
a what we've said before on the show is very
terrible mindset. The idea that they would assimilate these people
(23:05):
and by leading them to what they saw as the
truth of Catholicism, any means they took justified that noble end.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
So they exerted their influence on everything. It was very
ideologically based, and one of those was their influence on
the tradition that was meant to honor the dead. So
they ended up they ended up saying this would this
would overlap with pre existing Catholic holidays, and that's why
(23:34):
you see this all Soul's Day stuff going.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
On, That's right, That's why they line it up with
those calendar days, right, Yeah, And that affects it.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
But also, you know, this is a region that, despite
having these meso American pre Columbian practices, is still largely
very Catholic in terms of demographics. Sure, these are not
seen as contradictories.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
So the evolution was par for the core because this
started off as a pre Hispanic tradition and then you're
talking about that influence on these indigenous people of the
region by the Spanish. They kind of had to co
opt this tradition and sort of give it a little twists, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
So is this parade another step in that ongoing evolution,
and if so, is it a step in a good direction,
a bad direction, or neutral direction. One thing we can
say for sure, however, is that this is not the
only case in which a fictional event has prompted a
(24:35):
real world change.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Oh hit me with one.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I would love to, and we also think and hope
that you would love to hear one two folks, but
unfortunately the ones we found are so good they will
have to be their own episodes. One in particular, you
know the one I'm thinking about.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
You're talking about the Sir Arthur Conan Doyle crime bustin story.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yes, we are, that's true. The creator of Sherlock Holmes,
it turns out, wasn't just talking the talk I want
to say, writing the words. Yeah, he's also doing the dirt.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
He was doing the dirds.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
There we go, We got there. We hope that you
enjoyed this exploration of the relationship that fiction can have
with the real world. And we'd like to hear your
examples of other bits about this.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
And not only that. Have you been to a Doo
Delas Martos event, one of the kind of more you know,
they're maybe losing the spiritual a little bit. We've beene
of these street festivals or is this a tradition in
your family? I would love to hear some inside information
on that. Please. You can write to us at Ridiculous
at HowStuffWorks dot com. You can hit us up on
the social meds at the Facebook where we are Ridiculous History.
(25:50):
Give a look at our Facebook group, the Ridiculous Historians.
We are really looking forward to mining it for some
future episode ideas.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yes, and we also we also just found this soundbites
noise maker in the studio, so we should probably get
out of here.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
And do you want to hear a sound effect? Sure? Man, Okay,
let's go joos wisely. Okay, there's we'll go safe, We'll
go applause. Okay.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
So we'd like to thank Casey Pegram, our super producer,
Casey sincerely, thank you, of course, thanks to Alex Williams,
Christopher Hasiotis, Noel Brown, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Ben As I live and breathe thanks to you. And
we're sitting here the whole time.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I know it was me the whole time. I know,
like at the very end of the sixth sense when
everyone goes.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Hey, Willis whoa I know, come on now, no spoilers, No,
that was good. I stole that joke from Always Sunny
in Philadelphia. That's true. That was Bruce Willis Phillot time.
It's true. And we hope you continue being you the
whole time because we really like you. We really like
hanging out with you and stay tuned. Next week, we're
gonna be talking about a.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Thing, right, specifically, how the capture of Guam was bloodless
and quick entirely due to a misunderstanding.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
That sounds like a pretty sweet misunderstanding. I can't wait
to hear all about it, or you know, tell you
all about it. It's a fifty to fifty thing. Yeah,
we have a back and forth, all right. For more
(27:21):
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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