March 22, 2025 • 30 mins
At the close of World War I, American soldiers returned home from abroad with scars, wounds, stories and, in some cases, infections of which their romantic partners were unaware. When cities in Kansas noted the spike in sexually-transmitted diseases, they embarked upon a misguided quest to quell the infections by imprisoning the women these soldiers had infected (the soldiers didn't get arrested). So why did Kansas decide to imprison women for having STDs, how long did the program last, and why have so few people heard about it in the modern day?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Fellow Ridiculous Historians, thank you for joining us in this
week's classic episode. We're gonna be honest. We take a
lot of license with the word ridiculous. Sometimes evil things
are ridiculous as well, and this episode is about a
very ridiculously evil policy in our good state of Kansas.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
That's true. Why might you ask, did Kansas decide to
imprison women for having sexually transmitted diseases? How long did
this last? And why have so few people heard about
this in the modern day? Let's roll it.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome,
(01:08):
Thank you for tuning in. We would like to begin
today's show with an acknowledgment of something that may have
be fuddled some of you, our fellow ridiculous historians.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Hi, I'm Ben, Hey, I'm no What are you talking about, Ben?
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I'm talking Noel about the fact that we double Oregoned.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
On our quest to do one episode for every state
in the US.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
It's almost like we haven't been really thinking this through.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
It's almost as if we were winging that one.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It's true. Well, we thought both.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Stories regarding Oregon were interesting and important, so much so
that we didn't really decide which one was our official
Oregon episode.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So we have two. Should we address right up front
our double mispronunciation of the Malleury Wildlife Preservation, Casey, apparently
you really peed the bed on that one. My man.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Well, I'm unclear on this because the comment, Okay, so
there's the way they say it there, which is the
American way of saying it, which is quote unquote wrong
if you're going by the French standard. I don't know
if people are saying my French pronunciation was also.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Oh no, I don't know what. No, I don't think
they're saying that at all. Yeah, and I'm giving you
a hard time, Casey.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
So but yes bye. By sort of saying that's how
French people would say it, then you guys started saying
it that way, and of course that's never how it
works out when an American city is named for some other.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
So what's what's the real way, What's what's the real
Oregonian way?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
It's like mal here or something. I think the h
is silent, right, I don't know, you know, I withdraw
from this discussion entirely. Those folks can pronounce it, how
are they.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Like okay, Well, just to verify we did find it, Noel,
do you want to give it a shot?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, hang on here, mal here, that's doesn't that isn't
that is that? Yeah, mal here.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Well, it's just it's just a different way of approaching it.
And as we know, with proper nouns, pronunciation can be
you know, very much on a case by case basis,
and obey the rules of grammar and phonetics in absolutely
no shape fashion reform.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
See fourvo says it's mallur ma Oregon see three different ways,
three different ways. So I don't know not to get
a b in our bonnet right up at the top
of the show. Don't let it get to you. I'm
not gonna let it get to you. But this, this
episode today is about a state that's not Oregon. That's
sort of the whole point of this way right right right.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Also, we would be criminally remiss if we didn't do
one of my favorite things to do on this show,
Friends and Neighbors. Super producer Casey Pegram I just love
the sound cute.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I love it too, But I've noticed we've drifted into
a thing where we will Casey will be on mic
and it's not necessarily Casey on the case, so it
doesn't have to be. It's a brave new world. It's
a brave new world.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
It's just like English is a living language that continually evolves.
This show and the country in which we record it
are continually evolving.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Well, hey, I see where you're going.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, because today our journey takes us to Kansas in
the nineteen twenties, and we want to warn everybody this
is not a super happy, fun, feel good.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Story now, No, it's really not. Really. Nothing good comes
of this other than the fact that it stopped happening eventually, right,
That is the happy ending. The it in question, Ben, The.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
It in questionable is the imprisonment of thousands of innocent people. Well,
they were innocent by what we would consider criminal standards today,
but morally they were considered quite guilty.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
But not just people, Ben, women specifically and poor women.
So what's the scoop?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
So the nineteen twenties in the US sees the influx
of many international influences because of people returning from World
War One, which started in July of nineteen fourteen and
went to November of nineteen eighteen, and not to cast
aspersion on these returning soldiers. But a lot of them
(05:06):
didn't just bring an appreciation for foreign food or new
sorts of architecture music back home with them. They also
brought some diseases. That's right, because they couldn't keep their
d's in their peace right where.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
A family show.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
So what ended up happening is they returned home to
their significant others, or they met people in the States
and they transmitted some of these diseases they had picked up.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah, things like syphilis, gonorrhea, things that genuinely posed not
only a national health risk, but also a national security risk.
I read this the idea of it potentially preventing soldiers
from being effective in battle. Right. Some of these diseases
are no joke.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
They debilitate you severely, especially as they progress, things like syphilis.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
And then you know, as we mentioned, there were a
couple of other diseases in the mixed chlamydia, the clap
as well. And when this spike happened, it was noticeable.
It was an outbreak. It wasn't just like two people
in a town all of a sudden showed symptoms of
god rhea when they were tested, and States started to
(06:16):
panic and usually, unfortunately, when human communities panic, we often
tend to target the people with the least agency or
the least power in a community or that.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
And when we panic, we tend to screw up and
overshoot the mark a little bit, right, So, in an
effort to quash these potential outbreaks, in Kansas in particular,
it was in nineteen seventeen that there was a law
pass called Chapter two five, known as the State of
Kansas Quarantine Law. And what this essentially meant was anyone
(06:54):
suspected of having a sexually transmitted disease. It basically gave
public health officials an insane amount of leeway in terms of, Hey,
you there, Ben, you're looking a little peaked today. I
think you probably have gone rhea into the cells with you.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
So before we go any further, let's clarify here. STDs
transmit across the entirety of the gender spectrum's right, So
this means that if Kansas and other states are so
very concerned about the threat posed by STDs, they should
be locking up everyone who has one.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Right. Yeah, that's right, except we were just desperate for
able bodied men to fight in this you know, horrific conflict,
So it would be kind of counterproductive to lock up
every man suspected of having one of these diseases, especially
since the testing at the time right very inaccurate.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
The testing was nowhere near sophisticated as testing methods today. Additionally,
there was this huge sexual double standard, you know what
I mean, talk about victim blaming this. We shall also
say a lot of this information is coming from Nicole Perry,
a University of Kansas researcher who dug into the story
(08:08):
behind chapter two five. So we've established the gist right
the general way in which this occurred. But we should
probably also mention that when they were taking women to
court for these situations, they would find excuses to intervene
(08:29):
in and then find out that they had STDs and
then punish them like they would They would use charges
like vagrancy.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
That's right, no for sure. And the thing about this
too is these women didn't go to the state penitentiary
because the idea was that they would be abused by
the male inmates. So nearby there was actually another facility
called the Kansas State Industrial Farm, which was in fact
(08:55):
a farm but is officially a working farm, but it
was officially listed as a prison. That's right, exactly. And
the notion was that social reformers, as is discussed in
this article from caseu R The Faces of Long Gone
Women tell a New story of the Kansas State Prison,
social reformers believe that women that went there had the
(09:17):
potential to be rehabilitated. But here's the thing. In this article,
there's a woman named Jennifer Moyer who got a grant
from the state to set up a exhibit at the
Lansing Historical Museum, which is a very small place in
a former train depot, all in the actual prison grounds.
And she got ahold of all these amazing intake photographs
(09:39):
of inmates when they you know, when they were admitted,
I guess, and they're incarcerated booked exactly. And she noticed
that following the opening of this separate women's prison in
the spring of nineteen seventeen, it only had about seventeen
inmates total, and that was pretty common in Kansas. But
(10:00):
when Chapter two of five kicked in, it rose significantly
to almost four hundred women in the facility by the
end of that year. The end of that year, and
that continued to grow because you see, after the war ended,
this statute stayed on the books, and they kept using
it to persecute women. Right.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
And in her research, Jennifer Meyer finds short write ups
of interviews that the inmates, that the inmates had with
the authorities, and this is how she learned that several
things were happening as a result of this moral panic,
one of those being that women were being rounded up
in raids, and then some had been turned in by
(10:44):
jilted lovers, right.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
And just in general, they were profiled because, like we
said earlier, because those tests for these diseases were so inaccurate.
Sometimes you might have a public health official who says, oh,
you're sexually active, therefore you must have an stdre to
the prison farm with you.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
And then also this magnifies the tragedy. Some women turned
themselves in of their own accord because they had been
exposed to an STD and treatment at the time was
very expensive, not to mention often not safe.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah, I think the term toxic came up a few times.
What are we talking.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Here, Well, we have to remember this is the age
before the widespread use of penicillin, right, So there are
treatments of things like sulfonylamide on gonorrhea, and these things
could work, but they could also be dangerous. You know,
you're poisoning your body in some cases.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, I saw another one too, for pre penicillin treatment
of gnohea. That was something called cubebs, which is an
Indonesian pepper that was turned into a powder and applied
to the affected area. And if you can imagine rubbing
a hot pepper on your genitals, that's not a fun
(12:03):
sounding experience at all.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
I mean to each their own, but yeah, I would
say in general, that's not for me at least. So
these people, if they were not well off financially, had
no place to go to get treatment. Not to mention
the shame that could spread around town, right, your reputation
(12:25):
being key, especially in small town and the state of
Kansas itself did not invest in free public health clinics
at this time, So the closest many people could get
to a free public health clinic is the farm.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
That's right. Yeah, No, I mean, it really is a
pretty dire situation when you have someone in genuine need
who has done nothing wrong and potentially, you know what,
had intercourse with someone who may have even known they
had the disease and decided to keep that from the partner.
You know, this happens all the time, right, So you're
(12:58):
literally victimized people who are already victims.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Exactly exactly, and not only victimizing them in this legal sense,
but also in this again this moral sense that you
are a woman of ill repute and so on. And
as you said, and I think this is important point,
they were not held there for the rest of their lives.
They were typically in for a matter of several months, right,
(13:24):
two or three months. We don't know what happens to
a lot of them after they leave, because there's no
there's just no paper trail, right, except for in a
few very isolated cases. And these are young kids too,
like sixteen to twenty two, I think.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah. And if you want to see some of these women,
you know, and you're in the area, I highly recommend
that you check out this exhibit at the Lansing Historical
Museum because these images are incredibly stark. They're captured using
very high quality glass plate negatives, which I believe is
still like a fine art photography method that's used today,
(14:02):
and they yield these very stark black and white images.
And in the article, the curator of this Museum. This
exhibit talks about how surprising it is that these images
are so old, and that it's very easy to look
at these faces and kind of identify and see yourself
in them because they really, you know, other than the dress,
(14:24):
these are humans and it's very striking to kind of
see them because they I'm looking at this one of
a woman and she's in her profile shot, she's kind
of like looks a little timid and looking away, but
in her head on shot, she almost has like kind
of a grin on her face. Yeah, and you know,
and really some of these the clothes aren't even that
dated looking other than just the little you know, what
(14:44):
do you call it, the prison number and the you know,
the little tag that you hold up look very much
like a mugshot you might see today, only black and white. So, yeah,
the slate.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
There's a there's a very emotionally charged human element to this,
and it's tough. Two, it's tough to overestimate the importance
of these photographs in history, right because I don't know
about you, Noel, but I'm pretty sure neither of us
knew about this practice before we started examining it for
(15:15):
this episode.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
No, absolutely not and we met. We mentioned at the
top of the show, and I think it goes without
saying because of the military situation, but Meyer was asked
how many men she found that had been incarcerated because
of chapter two of five, and she says she couldn't
find any. So I think that kind of goes without
saying that that men were kind of able to just
get away with murder. There's even a story about, you know, oh,
(15:37):
I got a disease from my husband and he reported
me just to like get rid of me. It's just
this kind of witch hunt kind of situation.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
And the question that many of us are probably wondering
at this point is how far did this go? How
many people did Chapter two five affect? Well, we can
say that number of people the penitentiary rose from seventeen
to four hundred and this of the year. Eventually it
led to around five thousand women being imprisoned at the
(16:06):
farm while the law was on the books between nineteen seventeen.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
And nineteen forty two. Insane. Yeah, that's wild, because you know,
if it was designed to or at least intended to,
you know, help with this war situation, it's interesting that
it stayed on the books for so long after as
a means of kind of rounding up what might be
considered as sinful women in the eyes of like a
(16:32):
possibly puritanical rule of law.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
And you can read some great articles about this, particularly
on the University of Kansas website. There's a great article
titled Researcher Documents Gender class bias in Quarantine law Measures.
And one thing that was pretty important to us in
our research and with our research team looking at this
(16:55):
was to note that the US does have a history
of quarantining, detaining, or in turning citizens on its own soil.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Right exactly. The Justice Department actually oversaw the internment of
more than what was it been, thirty thirty thousand, more
than thirty thousand American civilians during World War Two.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah, and this included more than eleven thousand people of
German descents, Yeah, just just because of their ancestry, the
three thousand due to their Italian ancestry. And then of
course there were the US citizens who were in Japanese
internment camps as well.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
And not to mention the fact that in the eighties
and nineties during the HIV AIDS epidemic or when it
first kind of came into the public consciousness. There was
actually suggestion consideration of rounding up those affected by that
into some kind of quarantine situation.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
And we know that ultimately that did not occur. But
the scary number for that is, in nineteen ninety one,
thirty four percent of the US public supported the idea
of quarantining people who add HIV.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
It's a similar situation to you know, with the STD
panic that we're talking about in the twenties, where it
is seen as it's something new that they haven't experienced before,
and it's seen as a potential public health crisis. So
you know, people do stupid stuff when they panic.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
But we do have a I guess a little bit
of let's say, light at the end of the tunnel
of moral panic here, because that nineteen ninety one stat
we just mentioned changes over time, and.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
These stats are from a report from the Psychology Department
of UC Davis. There was another stat from ninety one
saying that as many as twenty nine percent of the
population believe that names should be named. So I talk
about a witch hunt for those suffering from AIDS and
they should be made public. But in the Spanish, just
a handful of years. By ninety seven, only one in
(18:56):
six endorsed these kinds of policies, and fewer than one
in five supported doxing these people for lack of a
better expression, putting out these names. So you know, and
certainly the stigma surrounding STDs has similarly changed in this
country from the way it may have been in World
War One.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Yeah, one would hope that we are making progress not
just as a society but as a species today. As
we said, this law is no longer on the books
in Kansas, but it is important to remember that things
like this, crazy as they sound, really did occur.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
It's true. And if we're doing a few stats, I
think we should wrap with with a pretty interesting one today.
According to the American Sexual Health Association, one and two
sexually active people will contract STD or STI infection by
the age of twenty five of some sort of some
sort exactly, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
(19:55):
estimate that in someone in the neighborhood of twenty million,
new in and says of STDs occur every single year.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
The good news is, however, that there are multitudes of
resources that can help you if you have any concerns.
You can go get free tests right in a city
near you to steal a line from that men's warehouse guy.
I guarantee it, And of course you hear it all
the time. Just practice safe sex and just be smart
(20:25):
about it. There's all kinds of resources, like Ben said,
and there's all kinds.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Of ways to protect yourself from getting one of these things.
So you know, there you go.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
No, it occurs to me that we have completed our
Kansas episode, but there's so many other interesting stories about Kansas.
Are we going to end up doing a thing where
we have like four episodes about one state and one
episode for other states?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Well, I mean, we don't want to hurt anybody's feelings,
but you know, some states are greater than others in
terms of the stories, but we're trying to dig for
all of them. Man, we're not We're not gonna discriminate
right against the states upfront, but the scrimmas state. Yeah,
that's good, Ben, that's not that's I like it. I
liked it. It was worth it, as you would say, And.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So we need your help. Let us know about the strange,
little known historical oddities you have discovered researching a particular
state in the US. You can tell us about it
on Instagram, you can tell us about it on Twitter.
We would love if you tell us, along with your
fellow Ridiculous Historians about your research on our community page,
(21:29):
Ridiculous Historians. And before we go, you know what, No,
we've been on a kick about this lately. I say
we double down and do some more listener mail.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Is it because the episodes has been running short?
Speaker 1 (21:45):
It's because this episode is shorter, Yes, that's true.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
But it's a good one. You know, it's absolutely worthwhile,
very important, and it certainly was a darker time in
this country. But you know less, history repeat itself always
a good idea to kind of keep on top of
the trends of the past.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yeah, and now, without further delay, Casey, could you set
us up for listener mail. So this is not our
usual listener mail kind of thing, but I thought this
was hilarious and if you haven't seen it on Ridiculous Historians,
we wanted to share this with you.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
First, Welcome to Nicole p. Nicole.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
You are a new member on the group, and you
recently said, does anyone hate these Starbucks ads as much
as I do? I feel like they're on every podcast
and they make me want to flip over tables and
burn down as Starbucks.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Well, the joke's on you, because the tables at Starbucks
are bolted down, my friend.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
They thought about it, and just reading the descriptions of
this opprobrium is so amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Melissa E.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
F responds, not just you, I hate them with the
fiery passion of a thousand suns.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Here's the thing, folks, we don't always have control over
which ads get in our show, especially when they're ones
we don't ourselves read or endorse. But you know what,
they keep the lights on, and they keep our mouths
talking into these here microphone, Thank yous.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Just the one war though, this is I'm reading these
because I you know, as a lover of language, I
really respect a good turn of phrase. So Jerry m
agrees and says, yes, annoying and somehow semi inappropriate, to
which Nicole p says, right, it's like being told to
have to pee by someone trying to seduce me.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Oh wow, oh wow, Oh my good gracious, that's that's
the closest we can get as a family show. I
really hope Starbucks isn't listening today. I hope they make
an out about it. Hey, you know what, it's fun.
We love Starbucks. Actually, I go, I go, I get
my Starbucks. I get my Bucks on on the.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Rag and your point you're pointing by ads is right.
We just we want to thank everyone listening for being
so supportive of our show and also being so consistently hilarious.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Agreed. Okay, the next one is uh. I don't know.
I'm not walking it back, but it's a little mea
culp for me. We've got one from Cameron. A. Hi,
my name is Cameron. Let me just say I love
your show. I wait every episode you guys put out.
If I use social media, I would join your groups,
but I'm too busy for social media at the moment. However,
regarding your latest episode at the time, this was the
British soccer game where the Brits gave the Nazi salute.
(24:15):
I was a little sad to hear you guys compare
the United States to Nazi Germany. I do respect that
you first began with not to get political, but it
still made me feel a bit unwelcome as a listener
to the podcast. Not a huge Trump fan, a conservative libertarian,
but he is still our commander in chief, and I
wish him the best I can in his term as president.
So I do just want to say that my statement
(24:37):
there in our statement, I mean it was I'm the
one who said it and then backed me up. It
was mainly just the idea of watching history repeat itself
in terms of appeasement. I was not comparing America to
Nazi Germany. I was more saying the pieces that were
laid that led to something like the Nazis being able
to take power are strangely similar to what we're seeing
with our administration right now in terms of letting things slide.
(25:01):
That there's like sort of an escalating effect that you
can kind of get a sense of and maybe compare
the two historical circumstances. I am in no way implying
that Donald Trump is one to one with Adolf Hitler
at all, and we are not a political show. But
it was a parallel that I could not help but
notice and felt compelled to comment on.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
I see also also this was interesting to me. First, Cameron,
thank you for your well worded and pretty respectful email,
But this reminded me of Godwin's law.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Do you know what that is? Gladwin's law, no Godwin,
no relationship. Okay, god wy In.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
It's a weird thing that you may have heard if
you're familiar with the internet. Godwin's Law, also called Godwin's
rule of Hitler analogies, is this Internet adage that says,
as no online discussion grows longer, the probability of a
comparison involving Hitler approaches one, which this guy's argument is,
no matter who who you talk about, no matter what
(26:01):
you talk about, if it's online, you talk about it
long enough. At some point, Nazis are gonna come up.
Have you seen this Teddy rouxspin, this new online Teddy ruxspin.
It's just like Nazi Germany.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
It's pretty the pieces are there. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
So okay, if you're cool with it, maybe we end
with with a funny email.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah, I think that smart. We go funny, heavy, funny.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah, like m PR, which is true, that's their formula.
We are also big m PR fit.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
So this email, everybody, get your ears ready for this.
This email is called.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
How could you do It? That should be a segment
from from Noel l oh cool namesake in Oe l
l e Ah whatever. Forget her. I'm sure you'll be famous. Friends.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
So, Noel, you wrote in to say, I want to
know how you could do a show on the epic
song Louie Louie and speak of its supposed to batchry
impact on America's youth and not even mentioned one of
the greatest covers of it, John Belushi and Animal House.
That one scene defines everything that the mothers and fathers
(27:10):
were worried. The song was encouraging. Guys, it was a
great show, But I kept waiting for you to at
least mention this piece of American film history in connection
with the song. You blew it, guys. Double Secret Probation
for you, Noel, Ell, I.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Don't get the reference. I haven't seen Animal House. Animal
House is great, Casey, have you seen Animal House?
Speaker 1 (27:29):
No?
Speaker 3 (27:29):
I haven't, But I do know the double Secret Probation thing,
because that was also like on the special edition when
it came out, it was the Double Secret Probation Edition.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
So so I've got to get you, guys. We've got
to have a pizza party and watch Animal House.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I've never seen The Blues Brothers either, so I've got
some real holes in my comedy film history, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
I watched The Blues Brothers when I was a kid
with I guess some relatives.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
And I think I just didn't get it, you know
what I mean. I think a lot of it went
over my head.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
But thank you so much for writing in Noel and
everyone else.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Let us know.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
If I've got to take Casey and Noll to a
movie night sometime soon, should we go for Animal House
or should we go for Blues Brothers.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Or what about Blues Brothers two thousand?
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I saw that one in the theater. Yeah, I heard
it was quite bad, And yeah, you guys don't need
to catch up on those.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Cool There's actually an episode of How Did This Get Made?
About it if you want to check that show out
with Paul Sheer and June, Diane Raphael and Jason man Zucaus.
Paul Sheer, who has actually been a guest on our
Sister Brother Peer Peer podcast movie crush.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
YEP, and uh, Blues Brothers two thousand is ridiculously cameo heavy.
So uh so, I guess it depends on how you
feel about cameos.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
But or what about the band cameo ward app Yeah,
the band cameo themselves.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
They don't get enough mentions and that's why you tuned
into Ridiculous History so you can hear Cameo get the
passing they deserve.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Okay, I know we're in Tangent City right now when
need to have this up. But I have to say
this because I was standing around at the airport. I'm
listening a comedy Bang Bang, which I love, and there
is a character, you know the show. They have different
improv actors playing characters coming on the show talking to
Scott Ackerman, and one of them was his character was
it's the guy from Cameo and every he just speaks
like Hello Scott, Hello, Bam wired app and it's like
(29:24):
that's how he speaks, and I'm like, I recognize that voice.
And it was Carl Tart, who used to be one
of the co hosts of our other cohort podcasts, Culture Kings. Oh,
he's the.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Guy that Got Away Comedy's.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
He also plays the chief on Comedy Bang Bank, the
Carmen san Diego character. I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah, pretty awesome, congratulations Carl. Maybe we could have him
come on our show at some point.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Who knows.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
I mean, we are pretty friendly with each other and.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
We do seem to be check out the recent episode
with Robert Evans. I actually listened to it myself in
the wild. That was a fun little discussion about the
racist origins of Oregon.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yeah, Robert Van's the mastermind behind the new podcast Behind.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
The Bastard's True. Check it out, Check it out.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
And let us know what you think, and tune in
for our next episode, when we explore Oscar Wilde, the
morals of Victorian England, the incredibly complicated fashion required of the.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Time, and an infamous pair of cross dressers who set
the hoity toity world of late Victorian England ablaze.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Thanks to our super producer, Casey Pegram, thanks to Christopher Hasiotis,
our research assistant, thanks to.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Alex Williams who composed our theme, and most importantly, thanks
to you for putting up with us to knuckleheads and
digging the show. We'll see you next time. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Fellow Ridiculous Historians, thank you for joining us in this
week's classic episode. We're gonna be honest. We take a
lot of license with the word ridiculous. Sometimes evil things
are ridiculous as well, and this episode is about a
very ridiculously evil policy in our good state of Kansas.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
That's true. Why might you ask, did Kansas decide to
imprison women for having sexually transmitted diseases? How long did
this last? And why have so few people heard about
this in the modern day? Let's roll it.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome,
(01:08):
Thank you for tuning in. We would like to begin
today's show with an acknowledgment of something that may have
be fuddled some of you, our fellow ridiculous historians.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Hi, I'm Ben, Hey, I'm no What are you talking about, Ben?
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I'm talking Noel about the fact that we double Oregoned.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
On our quest to do one episode for every state
in the US.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
It's almost like we haven't been really thinking this through.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
It's almost as if we were winging that one.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It's true. Well, we thought both.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Stories regarding Oregon were interesting and important, so much so
that we didn't really decide which one was our official
Oregon episode.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So we have two. Should we address right up front
our double mispronunciation of the Malleury Wildlife Preservation, Casey, apparently
you really peed the bed on that one. My man.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Well, I'm unclear on this because the comment, Okay, so
there's the way they say it there, which is the
American way of saying it, which is quote unquote wrong
if you're going by the French standard. I don't know
if people are saying my French pronunciation was also.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Oh no, I don't know what. No, I don't think
they're saying that at all. Yeah, and I'm giving you
a hard time, Casey.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
So but yes bye. By sort of saying that's how
French people would say it, then you guys started saying
it that way, and of course that's never how it
works out when an American city is named for some other.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
So what's what's the real way, What's what's the real
Oregonian way?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
It's like mal here or something. I think the h
is silent, right, I don't know, you know, I withdraw
from this discussion entirely. Those folks can pronounce it, how
are they.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Like okay, Well, just to verify we did find it, Noel,
do you want to give it a shot?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, hang on here, mal here, that's doesn't that isn't
that is that? Yeah, mal here.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Well, it's just it's just a different way of approaching it.
And as we know, with proper nouns, pronunciation can be
you know, very much on a case by case basis,
and obey the rules of grammar and phonetics in absolutely
no shape fashion reform.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
See fourvo says it's mallur ma Oregon see three different ways,
three different ways. So I don't know not to get
a b in our bonnet right up at the top
of the show. Don't let it get to you. I'm
not gonna let it get to you. But this, this
episode today is about a state that's not Oregon. That's
sort of the whole point of this way right right right.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Also, we would be criminally remiss if we didn't do
one of my favorite things to do on this show,
Friends and Neighbors. Super producer Casey Pegram I just love
the sound cute.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I love it too, But I've noticed we've drifted into
a thing where we will Casey will be on mic
and it's not necessarily Casey on the case, so it
doesn't have to be. It's a brave new world. It's
a brave new world.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
It's just like English is a living language that continually evolves.
This show and the country in which we record it
are continually evolving.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Well, hey, I see where you're going.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, because today our journey takes us to Kansas in
the nineteen twenties, and we want to warn everybody this
is not a super happy, fun, feel good.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Story now, No, it's really not. Really. Nothing good comes
of this other than the fact that it stopped happening eventually, right,
That is the happy ending. The it in question, Ben, The.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
It in questionable is the imprisonment of thousands of innocent people. Well,
they were innocent by what we would consider criminal standards today,
but morally they were considered quite guilty.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
But not just people, Ben, women specifically and poor women.
So what's the scoop?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
So the nineteen twenties in the US sees the influx
of many international influences because of people returning from World
War One, which started in July of nineteen fourteen and
went to November of nineteen eighteen, and not to cast
aspersion on these returning soldiers. But a lot of them
(05:06):
didn't just bring an appreciation for foreign food or new
sorts of architecture music back home with them. They also
brought some diseases. That's right, because they couldn't keep their
d's in their peace right where.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
A family show.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
So what ended up happening is they returned home to
their significant others, or they met people in the States
and they transmitted some of these diseases they had picked up.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah, things like syphilis, gonorrhea, things that genuinely posed not
only a national health risk, but also a national security risk.
I read this the idea of it potentially preventing soldiers
from being effective in battle. Right. Some of these diseases
are no joke.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
They debilitate you severely, especially as they progress, things like syphilis.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
And then you know, as we mentioned, there were a
couple of other diseases in the mixed chlamydia, the clap
as well. And when this spike happened, it was noticeable.
It was an outbreak. It wasn't just like two people
in a town all of a sudden showed symptoms of
god rhea when they were tested, and States started to
(06:16):
panic and usually, unfortunately, when human communities panic, we often
tend to target the people with the least agency or
the least power in a community or that.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
And when we panic, we tend to screw up and
overshoot the mark a little bit, right, So, in an
effort to quash these potential outbreaks, in Kansas in particular,
it was in nineteen seventeen that there was a law
pass called Chapter two five, known as the State of
Kansas Quarantine Law. And what this essentially meant was anyone
(06:54):
suspected of having a sexually transmitted disease. It basically gave
public health officials an insane amount of leeway in terms of, Hey,
you there, Ben, you're looking a little peaked today. I
think you probably have gone rhea into the cells with you.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
So before we go any further, let's clarify here. STDs
transmit across the entirety of the gender spectrum's right, So
this means that if Kansas and other states are so
very concerned about the threat posed by STDs, they should
be locking up everyone who has one.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Right. Yeah, that's right, except we were just desperate for
able bodied men to fight in this you know, horrific conflict,
So it would be kind of counterproductive to lock up
every man suspected of having one of these diseases, especially
since the testing at the time right very inaccurate.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
The testing was nowhere near sophisticated as testing methods today. Additionally,
there was this huge sexual double standard, you know what
I mean, talk about victim blaming this. We shall also
say a lot of this information is coming from Nicole Perry,
a University of Kansas researcher who dug into the story
(08:08):
behind chapter two five. So we've established the gist right
the general way in which this occurred. But we should
probably also mention that when they were taking women to
court for these situations, they would find excuses to intervene
(08:29):
in and then find out that they had STDs and
then punish them like they would They would use charges
like vagrancy.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
That's right, no for sure. And the thing about this
too is these women didn't go to the state penitentiary
because the idea was that they would be abused by
the male inmates. So nearby there was actually another facility
called the Kansas State Industrial Farm, which was in fact
(08:55):
a farm but is officially a working farm, but it
was officially listed as a prison. That's right, exactly. And
the notion was that social reformers, as is discussed in
this article from caseu R The Faces of Long Gone
Women tell a New story of the Kansas State Prison,
social reformers believe that women that went there had the
(09:17):
potential to be rehabilitated. But here's the thing. In this article,
there's a woman named Jennifer Moyer who got a grant
from the state to set up a exhibit at the
Lansing Historical Museum, which is a very small place in
a former train depot, all in the actual prison grounds.
And she got ahold of all these amazing intake photographs
(09:39):
of inmates when they you know, when they were admitted,
I guess, and they're incarcerated booked exactly. And she noticed
that following the opening of this separate women's prison in
the spring of nineteen seventeen, it only had about seventeen
inmates total, and that was pretty common in Kansas. But
(10:00):
when Chapter two of five kicked in, it rose significantly
to almost four hundred women in the facility by the
end of that year. The end of that year, and
that continued to grow because you see, after the war ended,
this statute stayed on the books, and they kept using
it to persecute women. Right.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
And in her research, Jennifer Meyer finds short write ups
of interviews that the inmates, that the inmates had with
the authorities, and this is how she learned that several
things were happening as a result of this moral panic,
one of those being that women were being rounded up
in raids, and then some had been turned in by
(10:44):
jilted lovers, right.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
And just in general, they were profiled because, like we
said earlier, because those tests for these diseases were so inaccurate.
Sometimes you might have a public health official who says, oh,
you're sexually active, therefore you must have an stdre to
the prison farm with you.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
And then also this magnifies the tragedy. Some women turned
themselves in of their own accord because they had been
exposed to an STD and treatment at the time was
very expensive, not to mention often not safe.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah, I think the term toxic came up a few times.
What are we talking.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Here, Well, we have to remember this is the age
before the widespread use of penicillin, right, So there are
treatments of things like sulfonylamide on gonorrhea, and these things
could work, but they could also be dangerous. You know,
you're poisoning your body in some cases.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, I saw another one too, for pre penicillin treatment
of gnohea. That was something called cubebs, which is an
Indonesian pepper that was turned into a powder and applied
to the affected area. And if you can imagine rubbing
a hot pepper on your genitals, that's not a fun
(12:03):
sounding experience at all.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
I mean to each their own, but yeah, I would
say in general, that's not for me at least. So
these people, if they were not well off financially, had
no place to go to get treatment. Not to mention
the shame that could spread around town, right, your reputation
(12:25):
being key, especially in small town and the state of
Kansas itself did not invest in free public health clinics
at this time, So the closest many people could get
to a free public health clinic is the farm.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
That's right. Yeah, No, I mean, it really is a
pretty dire situation when you have someone in genuine need
who has done nothing wrong and potentially, you know what,
had intercourse with someone who may have even known they
had the disease and decided to keep that from the partner.
You know, this happens all the time, right, So you're
(12:58):
literally victimized people who are already victims.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Exactly exactly, and not only victimizing them in this legal sense,
but also in this again this moral sense that you
are a woman of ill repute and so on. And
as you said, and I think this is important point,
they were not held there for the rest of their lives.
They were typically in for a matter of several months, right,
(13:24):
two or three months. We don't know what happens to
a lot of them after they leave, because there's no
there's just no paper trail, right, except for in a
few very isolated cases. And these are young kids too,
like sixteen to twenty two, I think.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah. And if you want to see some of these women,
you know, and you're in the area, I highly recommend
that you check out this exhibit at the Lansing Historical
Museum because these images are incredibly stark. They're captured using
very high quality glass plate negatives, which I believe is
still like a fine art photography method that's used today,
(14:02):
and they yield these very stark black and white images.
And in the article, the curator of this Museum. This
exhibit talks about how surprising it is that these images
are so old, and that it's very easy to look
at these faces and kind of identify and see yourself
in them because they really, you know, other than the dress,
(14:24):
these are humans and it's very striking to kind of
see them because they I'm looking at this one of
a woman and she's in her profile shot, she's kind
of like looks a little timid and looking away, but
in her head on shot, she almost has like kind
of a grin on her face. Yeah, and you know,
and really some of these the clothes aren't even that
dated looking other than just the little you know, what
(14:44):
do you call it, the prison number and the you know,
the little tag that you hold up look very much
like a mugshot you might see today, only black and white. So, yeah,
the slate.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
There's a there's a very emotionally charged human element to this,
and it's tough. Two, it's tough to overestimate the importance
of these photographs in history, right because I don't know
about you, Noel, but I'm pretty sure neither of us
knew about this practice before we started examining it for
(15:15):
this episode.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
No, absolutely not and we met. We mentioned at the
top of the show, and I think it goes without
saying because of the military situation, but Meyer was asked
how many men she found that had been incarcerated because
of chapter two of five, and she says she couldn't
find any. So I think that kind of goes without
saying that that men were kind of able to just
get away with murder. There's even a story about, you know, oh,
(15:37):
I got a disease from my husband and he reported
me just to like get rid of me. It's just
this kind of witch hunt kind of situation.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
And the question that many of us are probably wondering
at this point is how far did this go? How
many people did Chapter two five affect? Well, we can
say that number of people the penitentiary rose from seventeen
to four hundred and this of the year. Eventually it
led to around five thousand women being imprisoned at the
(16:06):
farm while the law was on the books between nineteen seventeen.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
And nineteen forty two. Insane. Yeah, that's wild, because you know,
if it was designed to or at least intended to,
you know, help with this war situation, it's interesting that
it stayed on the books for so long after as
a means of kind of rounding up what might be
considered as sinful women in the eyes of like a
(16:32):
possibly puritanical rule of law.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
And you can read some great articles about this, particularly
on the University of Kansas website. There's a great article
titled Researcher Documents Gender class bias in Quarantine law Measures.
And one thing that was pretty important to us in
our research and with our research team looking at this
(16:55):
was to note that the US does have a history
of quarantining, detaining, or in turning citizens on its own soil.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Right exactly. The Justice Department actually oversaw the internment of
more than what was it been, thirty thirty thousand, more
than thirty thousand American civilians during World War Two.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah, and this included more than eleven thousand people of
German descents, Yeah, just just because of their ancestry, the
three thousand due to their Italian ancestry. And then of
course there were the US citizens who were in Japanese
internment camps as well.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
And not to mention the fact that in the eighties
and nineties during the HIV AIDS epidemic or when it
first kind of came into the public consciousness. There was
actually suggestion consideration of rounding up those affected by that
into some kind of quarantine situation.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
And we know that ultimately that did not occur. But
the scary number for that is, in nineteen ninety one,
thirty four percent of the US public supported the idea
of quarantining people who add HIV.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
It's a similar situation to you know, with the STD
panic that we're talking about in the twenties, where it
is seen as it's something new that they haven't experienced before,
and it's seen as a potential public health crisis. So
you know, people do stupid stuff when they panic.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
But we do have a I guess a little bit
of let's say, light at the end of the tunnel
of moral panic here, because that nineteen ninety one stat
we just mentioned changes over time, and.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
These stats are from a report from the Psychology Department
of UC Davis. There was another stat from ninety one
saying that as many as twenty nine percent of the
population believe that names should be named. So I talk
about a witch hunt for those suffering from AIDS and
they should be made public. But in the Spanish, just
a handful of years. By ninety seven, only one in
(18:56):
six endorsed these kinds of policies, and fewer than one
in five supported doxing these people for lack of a
better expression, putting out these names. So you know, and
certainly the stigma surrounding STDs has similarly changed in this
country from the way it may have been in World
War One.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Yeah, one would hope that we are making progress not
just as a society but as a species today. As
we said, this law is no longer on the books
in Kansas, but it is important to remember that things
like this, crazy as they sound, really did occur.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
It's true. And if we're doing a few stats, I
think we should wrap with with a pretty interesting one today.
According to the American Sexual Health Association, one and two
sexually active people will contract STD or STI infection by
the age of twenty five of some sort of some
sort exactly, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
(19:55):
estimate that in someone in the neighborhood of twenty million,
new in and says of STDs occur every single year.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
The good news is, however, that there are multitudes of
resources that can help you if you have any concerns.
You can go get free tests right in a city
near you to steal a line from that men's warehouse guy.
I guarantee it, And of course you hear it all
the time. Just practice safe sex and just be smart
(20:25):
about it. There's all kinds of resources, like Ben said,
and there's all kinds.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Of ways to protect yourself from getting one of these things.
So you know, there you go.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
No, it occurs to me that we have completed our
Kansas episode, but there's so many other interesting stories about Kansas.
Are we going to end up doing a thing where
we have like four episodes about one state and one
episode for other states?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Well, I mean, we don't want to hurt anybody's feelings,
but you know, some states are greater than others in
terms of the stories, but we're trying to dig for
all of them. Man, we're not We're not gonna discriminate
right against the states upfront, but the scrimmas state. Yeah,
that's good, Ben, that's not that's I like it. I
liked it. It was worth it, as you would say, And.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So we need your help. Let us know about the strange,
little known historical oddities you have discovered researching a particular
state in the US. You can tell us about it
on Instagram, you can tell us about it on Twitter.
We would love if you tell us, along with your
fellow Ridiculous Historians about your research on our community page,
(21:29):
Ridiculous Historians. And before we go, you know what, No,
we've been on a kick about this lately. I say
we double down and do some more listener mail.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Is it because the episodes has been running short?
Speaker 1 (21:45):
It's because this episode is shorter, Yes, that's true.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
But it's a good one. You know, it's absolutely worthwhile,
very important, and it certainly was a darker time in
this country. But you know less, history repeat itself always
a good idea to kind of keep on top of
the trends of the past.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yeah, and now, without further delay, Casey, could you set
us up for listener mail. So this is not our
usual listener mail kind of thing, but I thought this
was hilarious and if you haven't seen it on Ridiculous Historians,
we wanted to share this with you.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
First, Welcome to Nicole p. Nicole.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
You are a new member on the group, and you
recently said, does anyone hate these Starbucks ads as much
as I do? I feel like they're on every podcast
and they make me want to flip over tables and
burn down as Starbucks.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Well, the joke's on you, because the tables at Starbucks
are bolted down, my friend.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
They thought about it, and just reading the descriptions of
this opprobrium is so amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Melissa E.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
F responds, not just you, I hate them with the
fiery passion of a thousand suns.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Here's the thing, folks, we don't always have control over
which ads get in our show, especially when they're ones
we don't ourselves read or endorse. But you know what,
they keep the lights on, and they keep our mouths
talking into these here microphone, Thank yous.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Just the one war though, this is I'm reading these
because I you know, as a lover of language, I
really respect a good turn of phrase. So Jerry m
agrees and says, yes, annoying and somehow semi inappropriate, to
which Nicole p says, right, it's like being told to
have to pee by someone trying to seduce me.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Oh wow, oh wow, Oh my good gracious, that's that's
the closest we can get as a family show. I
really hope Starbucks isn't listening today. I hope they make
an out about it. Hey, you know what, it's fun.
We love Starbucks. Actually, I go, I go, I get
my Starbucks. I get my Bucks on on the.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Rag and your point you're pointing by ads is right.
We just we want to thank everyone listening for being
so supportive of our show and also being so consistently hilarious.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Agreed. Okay, the next one is uh. I don't know.
I'm not walking it back, but it's a little mea
culp for me. We've got one from Cameron. A. Hi,
my name is Cameron. Let me just say I love
your show. I wait every episode you guys put out.
If I use social media, I would join your groups,
but I'm too busy for social media at the moment. However,
regarding your latest episode at the time, this was the
British soccer game where the Brits gave the Nazi salute.
(24:15):
I was a little sad to hear you guys compare
the United States to Nazi Germany. I do respect that
you first began with not to get political, but it
still made me feel a bit unwelcome as a listener
to the podcast. Not a huge Trump fan, a conservative libertarian,
but he is still our commander in chief, and I
wish him the best I can in his term as president.
So I do just want to say that my statement
(24:37):
there in our statement, I mean it was I'm the
one who said it and then backed me up. It
was mainly just the idea of watching history repeat itself
in terms of appeasement. I was not comparing America to
Nazi Germany. I was more saying the pieces that were
laid that led to something like the Nazis being able
to take power are strangely similar to what we're seeing
with our administration right now in terms of letting things slide.
(25:01):
That there's like sort of an escalating effect that you
can kind of get a sense of and maybe compare
the two historical circumstances. I am in no way implying
that Donald Trump is one to one with Adolf Hitler
at all, and we are not a political show. But
it was a parallel that I could not help but
notice and felt compelled to comment on.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
I see also also this was interesting to me. First, Cameron,
thank you for your well worded and pretty respectful email,
But this reminded me of Godwin's law.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Do you know what that is? Gladwin's law, no Godwin,
no relationship. Okay, god wy In.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
It's a weird thing that you may have heard if
you're familiar with the internet. Godwin's Law, also called Godwin's
rule of Hitler analogies, is this Internet adage that says,
as no online discussion grows longer, the probability of a
comparison involving Hitler approaches one, which this guy's argument is,
no matter who who you talk about, no matter what
(26:01):
you talk about, if it's online, you talk about it
long enough. At some point, Nazis are gonna come up.
Have you seen this Teddy rouxspin, this new online Teddy ruxspin.
It's just like Nazi Germany.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
It's pretty the pieces are there. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
So okay, if you're cool with it, maybe we end
with with a funny email.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah, I think that smart. We go funny, heavy, funny.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah, like m PR, which is true, that's their formula.
We are also big m PR fit.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
So this email, everybody, get your ears ready for this.
This email is called.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
How could you do It? That should be a segment
from from Noel l oh cool namesake in Oe l
l e Ah whatever. Forget her. I'm sure you'll be famous. Friends.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
So, Noel, you wrote in to say, I want to
know how you could do a show on the epic
song Louie Louie and speak of its supposed to batchry
impact on America's youth and not even mentioned one of
the greatest covers of it, John Belushi and Animal House.
That one scene defines everything that the mothers and fathers
(27:10):
were worried. The song was encouraging. Guys, it was a
great show, But I kept waiting for you to at
least mention this piece of American film history in connection
with the song. You blew it, guys. Double Secret Probation
for you, Noel, Ell, I.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Don't get the reference. I haven't seen Animal House. Animal
House is great, Casey, have you seen Animal House?
Speaker 1 (27:29):
No?
Speaker 3 (27:29):
I haven't, But I do know the double Secret Probation thing,
because that was also like on the special edition when
it came out, it was the Double Secret Probation Edition.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
So so I've got to get you, guys. We've got
to have a pizza party and watch Animal House.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I've never seen The Blues Brothers either, so I've got
some real holes in my comedy film history, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
I watched The Blues Brothers when I was a kid
with I guess some relatives.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
And I think I just didn't get it, you know
what I mean. I think a lot of it went
over my head.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
But thank you so much for writing in Noel and
everyone else.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Let us know.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
If I've got to take Casey and Noll to a
movie night sometime soon, should we go for Animal House
or should we go for Blues Brothers.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Or what about Blues Brothers two thousand?
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I saw that one in the theater. Yeah, I heard
it was quite bad, And yeah, you guys don't need
to catch up on those.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Cool There's actually an episode of How Did This Get Made?
About it if you want to check that show out
with Paul Sheer and June, Diane Raphael and Jason man Zucaus.
Paul Sheer, who has actually been a guest on our
Sister Brother Peer Peer podcast movie crush.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
YEP, and uh, Blues Brothers two thousand is ridiculously cameo heavy.
So uh so, I guess it depends on how you
feel about cameos.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
But or what about the band cameo ward app Yeah,
the band cameo themselves.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
They don't get enough mentions and that's why you tuned
into Ridiculous History so you can hear Cameo get the
passing they deserve.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Okay, I know we're in Tangent City right now when
need to have this up. But I have to say
this because I was standing around at the airport. I'm
listening a comedy Bang Bang, which I love, and there
is a character, you know the show. They have different
improv actors playing characters coming on the show talking to
Scott Ackerman, and one of them was his character was
it's the guy from Cameo and every he just speaks
like Hello Scott, Hello, Bam wired app and it's like
(29:24):
that's how he speaks, and I'm like, I recognize that voice.
And it was Carl Tart, who used to be one
of the co hosts of our other cohort podcasts, Culture Kings. Oh,
he's the.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Guy that Got Away Comedy's.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
He also plays the chief on Comedy Bang Bank, the
Carmen san Diego character. I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah, pretty awesome, congratulations Carl. Maybe we could have him
come on our show at some point.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Who knows.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
I mean, we are pretty friendly with each other and.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
We do seem to be check out the recent episode
with Robert Evans. I actually listened to it myself in
the wild. That was a fun little discussion about the
racist origins of Oregon.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yeah, Robert Van's the mastermind behind the new podcast Behind.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
The Bastard's True. Check it out, Check it out.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
And let us know what you think, and tune in
for our next episode, when we explore Oscar Wilde, the
morals of Victorian England, the incredibly complicated fashion required of the.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Time, and an infamous pair of cross dressers who set
the hoity toity world of late Victorian England ablaze.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Thanks to our super producer, Casey Pegram, thanks to Christopher Hasiotis,
our research assistant, thanks to.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Alex Williams who composed our theme, and most importantly, thanks
to you for putting up with us to knuckleheads and
digging the show. We'll see you next time. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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