February 15, 2025 • 43 mins
At the height of the Cold War a series of debates in a model kitchen in Moscow (true story!) led Nikita Khrushchev to visit the US on a whirlwind publicity tour. The Soviet leader hobnobbed with politicians, celebrities and business tycoons, soaking up all that America had to offer, often with a few choice remarks along the way. However, there was one place he wasn't allowed to enter: Disneyland. Join Ben and Noel as they take a closer look at Khrushchev's doomed quest to meet America's most famous mouse.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You guys like Disneyland, right, You know I'm into Disneyland
since I was a little little kid.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
But I do love disney World.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
It's a land all its own, and you would never
want to be banned.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Oh neverland.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
No, that's rhymes too, but I'll tell you. During the
height of the Cold War, a series of debates held
in a weirdly like model kitchen in Moscow led the
premiere of Russia, Nikita Khrushchev, to come to the US
on a whirlwind, you know, public tour, publicity tour, and
(00:35):
ended up at Disneyland, where things did not go particularly well.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yes, Ridiculous Historians, please join us in today's classic episode,
where we explore Khrushev's doomed quest to meet Mickey Mouse.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Indeed, let's roll it.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeart Welcome to the show,
(01:25):
Ridiculous Historians. Thank you for tuning in. We hope that
you brought a fluffy coat or a nice heavy blanket
because this episode is going to be cold Cold War esque. Look,
not all the intros are going to be winners.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Hi, I'm Ben. You've never seen the space blankets that
they give the refugee children. I have one in my car.
I'm sorry, I really took a dark turn there, but
they look like the things you'd put in your window
to keep the sun from heating up your tight leather seats. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Those emergency blankets are incredible, and if you are someone
who routinely drives long distances, I highly recommend putting one
in your go bag.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
And also one of those things you can use to
break the glass from the inside in case you ever
go off a cliff or into the ocean or a
lake somebody of water.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
And make sure you get the kind that will let
you cut the seatbelt.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
It's like an extra attachment, a little.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Razor almost right behind the hammer. But why are we
talking about being prepared? Why are we talking about cold
war stuff?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Hey? Your nol?
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Right?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Oh yeah, still me?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
And who is that handsome devil just outside the booth
on the ones and twos?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Are that good boy out there? Our boy Casey Pegram, Yes,
super producer Casey Pegram m hm. Hey remember that song
by Da Da called I'm Going to Disneyland? Yeah? Actually yeah,
it's like this is a part where it says, hitched
a rat on a monkey's back, headed west didn't the
(03:00):
black I'm going to Disneyland. Bandang dang to dang dang dang.
You know he's not going to Disneyland. Nikitakrushev. Yep.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
We were going to tease it out a little bit
with the history of Disneyland, but let's let's just get
right to the heart.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Of the matter.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Disneyland is an iconic American thing, right, It's one of
the world's most famous amusement parks, and people from across
the planet associated with the American dream, the iconic image
of what Americans do for fun.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Right.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
You've You've probably met some people from abroad who just
assume you've been to Disneyland.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
What do you do at Disneyland, Ben.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Well, let's see you can watch the fireworks for free that.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
You I've seen that. I've been to Anaheim and I
did not go to Disneyland. But those fireworks they probably
get real dull to the people that live there, and
they're just like, oh.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Look, now you recall I saw them. I saw them too,
because I was in the same car driving us back.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
From the beach. You're right, Ben, I have a short
memory when it comes to beach related things. So with
this in mind.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
We also have to look at the context of the
Cold War, and when we talk about the Cold War,
we must mention and explore the life and times of
the Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev, or as he's called in
one of those press releases of the time.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Oh yeah, they give this a newsreel. Well, let's just
hear it, Sylvia. At Premier Khrushchov meets the masters of
movie them at a studio luncheon on the twentieth century
Fox lot in Hollywood, a meeting at which mister k
gives himself quite a build up. Yeah. I don't know
if this guy is like smarter than us and all
(04:49):
the rest of the people I've ever heard pronounce his name,
But he says it a little funny.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah, And I wonder Truv. Yeah, and I wonder too,
if this is a matter of the the vestiges of
Transatlantic accent that was used commonly back in the day
for broadcast and radio.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Maybe it's secretly like a dig they're mispronouncing his name
on purpose.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah, maybe it's some nefariest attempted propagandistic demeaning.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Because here's the thing, this clip that we just heard,
obviously was from Khrushchev's tour of the United States in
nineteen fifty nine, and you know, he does the kind
of touristy things you think you might do. He went
to New York City, You went to Los Angeles and
Des Moines. What he went to Des Moines. It's a
(05:38):
weird choice. It's a very popular, very popular city. What's
in des Moines? Americans? Man, it's very okay. So he
was touring the American dream, so he had to see
what it's like in the big cities, and then he
had to see what it's like in Des Moines, which
I'm sure is lovely. By the way.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Oh yeah, it's the capital and most populous city in Iowa.
It's the it's the big tent of Iowa.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I think that's where Slipknot the band is from. I
believe you're right, it's definitely Iowa.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Right and off air, while we were prepping for this episode,
Casey brought up a fantastic parallel that nicely compliments our
Khrushchev Khrushev question, Casey, maybe could you explain it for us?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Is just Casey on the case? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (06:21):
I was thinking if maybe when they first started reporting
on this guy, they didn't have the pronunciation quite down yet,
which is kind of seems to have happened much more
recently in the news with Robert Muller, or as he
was initially known, Robert Mueller. And it's kind of strange,
how like all the news coverage sort of shifted to
that updated pronunciation. Just something I kind of picked up on.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
And that's been Casey on the case. I love that segment.
I love that guy, Yes, unreservedly. Someone who was a
little bit tougher to love, of course, was Kita Khrushchev.
What do you say, No, we want to talk a
little bit about his life and times to power pre
us tour.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Have you seen The Death of Stalin? The movie watched
on a place. It's great, so good. If anyone hasn't
seen it, I highly recommend it to get a little
info on what led to Khrushchev gaining power. He was
born in April fifteenth of eighteen ninety four in a
Russian village called Kilinovka, and he ended up joining the Bolsheviks,
(07:24):
the Communist Bolsheviks, and rising in the ranks quite quickly
found his way into the inner circle of our man
Joseph Stalin, who ruled Soviet Russia with an iron fist.
I was a platinum.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
This was a neutron star of a fist massive pressure.
In fact, the death of Stalin the historical occurrence, not
just the film, could be its own episode because it
is tragically ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Oh tragically, and the movie really leans on that. It's
this incredible director, satirist, Armando Yanucci, who was responsible for
the show Veep, and he also did another show that
was similarly satirical and political called The Thick of It
that aired on British television. But this film Death of Stalin,
it uses the absurdity that you might see in something
(08:13):
like Curb Your Enthusiasm. This kind of like slapstick, almost
just cartoonish buffoonery of the jockeyings of these various members
of Stalin's inner circle to one up each other and
get the upper hand after the leader dies, and in
the end Khrushchev who's played by Steve Bushemi, who doesn't
put on a Russian accent. That's part of the joy
of the movie too, as they all use their own voices.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
And your first question whenever you're contemplating scene a film
is is Steve it is this has the Seal of
a and.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
He plays Krushchev and it's he plays it. So I
don't know what the word is. It's like he's he's
got that. He's got that Steve bushmi skittering nervous energy,
just like you'd think he's not Peter very much. So yeah, yeah, yeah,
Peter Lauri like who does well he did all those
months movies right, like yeah, anyways, got that look with
those those chemi eyes. Yeah yeah, dreamy, slash, sunken and large.
(09:08):
You know what else has that look? Is the protagonist
in oh what's that? Uh mister Robot. Yeah yeah yeah,
Romey Mallick, Yeah, playing plane. Freddy Mercury and the New
Queen biopic it looks okay.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah, it was supposed to be Sasha Baron Cohen, but
they left over creative differences, which is a shame.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
I'd love to see that film. Well, I wouldn't be
surprised that those creative differences remain, and they wash over
some of the more controversial parts of Freddy mrcury store.
But we're not talking about Freddy Mercury.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
So before before we get to Khrushchev. Let's let's step
back to the death of Stalin and right before his life,
because we say that he ruled with a with a
massive heavy hand, and we hear that often about different
political leaders, but in Stalin's case, this, uh, this is
(09:58):
not an exaggeration, and that is a very unfortunate truth.
He was legendary for not just killing people, but removing
them from history, having them scrubbed out of photographs. He
was brutal, ruthless, relentless, had no friends, only interest, and
was also known to regularly replace members of his inner circle,
(10:21):
not because they had done anything or even tried to
do anything, but because he did not want someone consistently
being there, because he saw that as just a longer
length of time for them to undermine him, yes, or
try to grab powers.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
He's that kind of paranoid that everyone will eventually betray me.
And that's why the way that it's depicted in this
movie is so cool, because it's just this, no one
trusts anybody, because that's the precedent that's been set, and
that's the attitude that kind of purveyed throughout the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
We're going to talk a little bit about his death.
He died, as I said, March in nineteen fifty three,
on the first of March. A few days beforehand, his
staff found him semi conscious on the bedroom floor. He
had suffered a cerebral hemorrhage. And even now after this
very terrible, difficult death, people still suspect that he may
(11:12):
have been murdered. So keep this in mind when we
talk about Khrushev, who, as we established, does win this
power struggle, Khrushev remains a possible murder suspect.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Everyone was a suspect, right, like that was. I mean,
there's this as soon as someone realizes that he is dead,
there's this immediate rush to point fingers anywhere else but
at oneself in his inner circle. Right.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
And one of the things that I think inspires or
informs the film The Death of Stalin is just how
terrified people were to disturb him while he's dead. They
thought that he might still be alive and that they
would encounter the death penalty for waking him from his
slumber that you know, turned out to be an eternal slumber.
(11:58):
And Khrushchev Ushchev, who did succeed and become the ruler
in this chaotic.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
What'd you call it? Charad?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Sure, this chaotic charad. And Khrushev becomes the first Secretary
of the Communist Party there in the USSR on the
fourteenth of September in nineteen fifty three, and then by
nineteen fifty eight March he moves up to become the
chairman of the Council of Ministers.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
And I believe he was already the head of the
Communist Party, the highest ranking official, only six months after
the death of Stalin, and then it was governed. The
USSR was governed by a collective many for several years,
and then he became premier after George Malankov. That's right.
(12:47):
Malankov was a guy that was played by Jeffrey Tambor
in the movie, and he's sort of a patsy, right.
The way he's portrayed in the movie is like he
gets the top job, but no one likes him, and
he's kind of everyone thinks he's sort of a buffoon.
He likes to be the one that's sort of the
smiling face of the party, but behind the scenes he's
(13:07):
portrayed as kind of an idiot.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Right, And there's a huge geopolitical context to this as well,
because you'll notice we mentioned different dates. In the fifties,
the Cold War is in full swing between the USSR
and the United States, or I mean most particularly through them.
But then that also factors in some forces they're friendly
(13:31):
with the USSR, some forces that are historically friendly with
the US. In this time, both leaders of these countries
are attempting to minimize the possibility of a catastrophic atomic
war ultimately, right, And that's when we see things like
the concept of mutually assured destruction, of the idea that
(13:55):
the only way to prevent nuclear weapons being deployed is
if your enemies can also retaliate, you know, and they.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Know you can.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
So there's a lot of propaganda that goes on. Khrushev
is to this day the recipient of some misquotes. You
know that history is kind of exaggerated.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
What was the bigie you mentioned earlier, Ben.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
What's called the shoe banging incident? You remember this one, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
It's like when Bush got the shoe thrown at him,
but kind of in reverse.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Oh, here's an episode idea, Pitch, tell us what you
think of this, Folks, History's most important shoes there you go,
it could be like a new version of weird people
who built weird things.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeay, I like the shoes that built a nation or
crushed one tore it down. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
So in nineteen this is just an outside of chronology example.
And in nineteen sixty at the United Nations General Assembly
in October, Khrushchev pounded his shoe in public protesting a
speech by a delegate from the Philippines, and then the
(15:02):
story spread in a propagandistic way and multiple versions proliferated.
But this all goes to show these were intense times.
And regardless of how you feel about Khrushev and Nixon,
when we go back to the fifties, the fact of
the matter is that they were trying to, at least
(15:24):
on some levels, they were trying to prevent a civilization
leveling war, and they engaged in something that ended up
being called the kitchen debate. They sat down with them
and their interpreters and had what corporate America today would
(15:44):
call a healthy conversation about their differing viewpoints.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
It wasn't about like interior design.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
It was not about it was not about the advantages
of an island kitchen layout, nor was it about whether
or not to have a trash compactor in the World House. Instead,
it was it was about their vastly different views of
which economic system was superior, capitalism and this representative democracy idea,
(16:14):
or communism and a more centralized economy. Khrushev, like Nixon,
being a man with a temper, had impassioned arguments, and
it was Actually it did take place in a kitchen.
It was in a model kitchen at the American National
Exhibition in Moscow.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
So it's like you and me getting in a fight
at an Ikea. That's not too much of a stretch man.
Every time I go into an Ikea, I feel like
I go a little bit insane, the way they trap
you in those hedge mazes of tiny furniture and accessories.
You gotta know the short cut. I know the shortcuts, man,
but it still doesn't just it's so it did. It
hurts my brain and I always find myself like this
(16:56):
close to flying off the handle. I love it, man,
I love Ikia flying off the time any Swedish ergonomic handle.
There we go, There we go.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
There was a guy I can't remember where it was,
it was definitely in the States who while his apartment
was being fixed, cracked a deal with his local Ikea
to live there.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Did you hear about that?
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I wonder if you could pull that kind of scenario
off in an ikea. I feel like you could hide
under one of those little hideaway beds and yeah, you know,
kind of stow away in the ikea.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
They have a lot of cameras though in surprising places.
But I guess all that has to do with today's
episode is mass surveillance. Right, So what's the outcome of
this debate? They were just verbally abusing each other. It
did not come to fisticuffs, and it appeared to have
a good result.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Oh thank god. What kind of result was that they
agreed that.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Khrushchev, the leader of the Soviet Union, would visit the US.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Mister Khrushchev comes to Washington.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Right, And this comes about so to be clear, Richard
Nixon vice president at this time, when he was visiting Moscow.
It's not as if the president of the time visited Russia.
That would be Dwight Eisenhower. So President Eisenhower decided to
invite Khrushchev kind of inspired by this kitchen debate talk
(18:15):
and also buy some concerns about Berlin.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, for sure, because it was also Khrushev. I believe that, okayed,
the building of the Berlin won't.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Yeah, tensions are high, big time.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
So what do you do with a diplomatic tour like this, Benjamin.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Well, Nolgamen, you are immediately confronted by a ton of considerations. Yeah,
first what we call today the optics, right, and then
both sides probably have competing opinions about what should be depicted.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Because it's go for show. I mean, let's be real,
what else is there to accomplish?
Speaker 4 (18:53):
You know?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
I even read like he came back at the end
for some very unproductive which I'm sure ultimately, these kitchen
debates didn't exactly set the world on fire in terms
of like, oh communism is good or oh capitalism is good.
It's like maybe we just should hang out and not
shoot missiles at each other.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah, which is an excellent starting point.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
You know, Ben, when you put it like that, that
add is a pretty good outcome. I don't know what
I was saying, but Ben considerations.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Well, first off, wouldn't it have been amazing? Wouldn't the
world be such a different place if either of them
have persuaded the other one. I just I'm interested in
your idea because can you imagine Nixon coming back to
the US and saying, guys, I gotten an argument in
this model kitchen, and I'm convinced we should be Communists.
That would be amazing. He probably wouldn't have been president.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
No, something that would have gone over too well with
these small business owners of America.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
So we found this great article on the Smithsonian Nikita
Krushev goes to Hollywood that examines some of the timeline
and some of the factors playing into this famous visit.
And we mentioned optics. But another huge, huge concern is security,
right hmm.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah. I mean they had like parades in Washington, and
I think it was some of the biggest attendants of
any foreign dignitary centric parade, right, because people wanted to
get a load of this guy, right, I mean, this
was like he loomed large in the consciousness of the
American public being you know, this big, bad kind of
(20:34):
you know that was like pointing missiles at us. Yeah,
and he fucking covering all that, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
And he was such a ham when he initially showed
up there. Eisenhower read a welcoming speech when Khrushev landed
in September fifteenth, nineteen fifty nine, and during the whole
time Khrushev was mugging, was like doing it.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
You mean, he was like he like was perse snatching.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Yeah, that's what he was doing from the stage, which
was really weird.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
People just kept walking up. That's tough, man.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
He was doing a Luckily he's doing a much friendlier
version of that. He was like, picture him.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Oh he's a goofy looking dude. Yeah, oh yeah, he's
got a big old gap tooth and this like kind
of funny double chin and just like a odd shaped
face and shad shaved head, just very clownish kind of look.
And I'm not that's not passing judgment. Look at the guy.
He's got an odd vibe.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
And he uh, he embraced it, at least at this
part because while wild Eyes now I was talking, he
was like waving his hat at people.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
He winked at a little girl. Uh.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
He clearly wasn't paying too much attention because remember he
was he hears English through interpreters, right, So he saw
a butterfly go by and just had to turn and
like see yes, yes, crucive in America, one reporter. One
reporter said he stole the show with the studied nonchalance
(22:02):
of an old vaudeville trooper.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
That you know, that's funny. I'm looking at this picture too,
from that news clip we played earlier, and it's it's
him posing next to Ike and I believe Eisenhower's wife,
and Eisenhower is just stony faced with his arms crossed
in front of him, and Krushchev is just goofully grinning
from ear to ear. Because he got to think, man,
he was probably being cocky about it, right. It's like,
(22:27):
I mean, we welcome him with open arms, you know,
gave him a parade. He sort of probably felt like
he had he got one over on old Ike. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
And then he also he felt like this was an opportunity.
We're speculating here, but he also had to feel like,
this is an opportunity to show the people of the
US that I'm not this scary, monstrous entity. But he's
You can find these great anecdotes of different parts of
(22:57):
his visit, but we also have to miss it. A
lot of this was calculated, right, It had to be
oh yeah, and there's this story where he went to
a farm in Maryland and he quote petted a pig
and complained that it was too fat, then grabbed a
turkey and griped that it was too small. So he's
(23:17):
just like doing live comedy book.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Oh I saw a thing about the turkey. He said, Oh,
in Russia, we only like fat turkeys. Just like, what
kind of thing you say is that? And you know,
all seems to be going to plan. I still want
to know what he did in des Moines, probably visited.
I get he was doing like the Heartland kind of situation, right, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
The Soviet embassy in the days leading up to the
visit and the week's leading up to the visit, they
received hundreds of letters from small and large towns in
the US that were inviting Khrushev and the Soviet delegation.
They were saying, like, come to our county fair. It's
happening while you're in the country. You can you know,
(24:01):
you can enter afloat, said the chairman of the Minnesota
Apple Festival.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
If you have an idea, let us know. I gotta go.
And I found a picture of him on his visit
to Des Moines, where there's quite a rotund fellow in
front of him. We're wearing some overalls, and you see
Khrutschev patting his belly and the quote next to the
picture is, now that is it a real American? Is
(24:26):
that okay? You're gonna do the Russian accent? I think so.
I think it's in good fun. It's in good fun
and in good faith, good faith.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Yeah, sure so so he uh, he had all these
these strange, amazing dog.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
And pony show moments.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Yeah, hilarious encounters, I would say. And what I always
think is missing from this story and what I would
love to learn more about is what that interpreter went through,
because you know, he had to basically be Khrushchev's shadow, yeah,
and translate whatever wild kakammy stuff this guy was spouting
off with into something that sounded reasonable.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yes, that's true. I always wondered about that, dude. Do
uh interpreters ever editorialized? Do you think they're ever given
like special instructions from like higher ups where it's like, look,
don't translate exactly what this crazy dude says. Try to
soften the blow a little bit, you know.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
You know, there are some pretty hard and fast rules
about that. Yeah, depending on what type of interpretation or
what kind of sphere it occurs in. But one of
the weird things about these different languages is that in
some languages you can say things in a way that
you cannot in other languages. Right, Yeah, So you might
(25:43):
say tell them I want to make the deal, but
it's no walk in the park. And if they say
that in the other language, that doesn't make any sense.
That's so they have to say something else.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
It might be something like that's no butter on the blanket, right,
I don't know. And you know what it makes me
think of, too, is there's people that do some language
and rap concerts. Surely they're taking some liberties as well.
That's just you know, a lot of information going by.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
I'm interested. I'm very interested in that. You know, it
may surprise some people to learn that signing the signing
languages also differ by language. There's like we know asl
here in the US, we know of it rather but
if someone who is who can sign travels to China
or more appropriately Russia for this.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Episode, they might be entirely adrift. Yeah. See, we haven't
lost the plot. We're still talking about Russia. Yeah, we
got there. So let's let's get to the heart of
the matter.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Everything's everything at least umpt Yeah, he's having a great time.
He goes to Hollywood and people are super excited to
see him. I believe that the he made a deal
with twentieth century Fox to watch the filming of a
Broadway musical.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yeah, I think he did a studio tour, right, and
the president of twentieth century Fox at the time, a
man named Spiro Scuras, introduced him at a special luncheon
at Los Angeles' town Hall. And this is actually where
a little static got into the mix. That's kind of
when things started going south. Scorus made a bit of
(27:19):
a joke about referencing this line that Khrushev had said
in the past that the Soviet Union would bury capitalism,
and he said something to the effect of, in la
we were not interested in burying anyone, but we would
meet any challenge. And then Khrushev, very mythed responds, if
you want to go on with the arms race, very well,
(27:42):
we accept that challenge. As for the output of rockets,
well they are on the assembly line. This is a
most serious question. It is one of life or death.
Leaders and gentlemen, one of war and peace. Oh yeah,
that little Dog and Pony show took a took a turn.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah, those dogs started Biden, but this and those ponies
started kicking.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
I feel like as they do, just to complete that reference.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
But this is just the beginning. As Billy Mays was
wont to say, wait, there's more. Khrushev, who again I
think we said earlier, had a notorious temper. His anger
went through the roof when he learned that not only
was Spiroscorross part of what he saw as a campaign
to heckle him. Did you see that part? He thought
(28:28):
there was a campaign to heckle.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Him throughout the US, trying to make a fool of me.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I know, I am the one who makes a fool
of me.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Oh is that a butterfly? And right?
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And he became even more incensed when he learned that
of all the places he was going, of all the
places he had planned to visit, one was off limits
to him now, and that was Disneyland.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
It's only the happiest place on Earth.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Fireworks every night, guys, I'm telling you. So we could
reasonably assume that maybe he was being punished by not
being led in to Disneyland, like, hey, if you start
threatening people, including everyone in our country, with this idea
of rockets bombarding citizens, then you can't go to our
(29:16):
funnest place.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Well, now, you know, That's that's what I thought. I
figured it was like someone saying, na, man, we don't
want you here. Disney himself even right, who, who, as
we know, was no fan of communism. He's a you know,
tried and true capitalist all the way. But it turns
out it was as much more likely that the security
you were talking about. Ben those considerations. It was just
(29:39):
too much to handle for a guy like that to
be able to go and have a nice fun day
at Disneyland without like shutting the whole park down and
devoting devoting the whole thing to him. And you know, man,
it's not gonna happen. Yeah, who you are? You know,
no one gets Disneyland for a day, right, not even Walt,
Not even Walt.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
And we have a we have a short clip here
of Walt Disney actually speaking about Khrushev.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Kruschev was a guest of the government, So, I mean,
we were ready to receive Khrushchev, but it so happened
that the security problem here in Los Angeles because actually
Disneyland is in another county, and the chief of police.
We can't blame him. He had quite a chore there
to carry out.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
He just was a little worried.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
About somebody maybe walking in Disneyland with a shopping bag
and what they might have in it. You'd never know,
you know exactly. We were ready for him, The press
was ready. Both the State Department security and the Soviet
security had come in case Disneyland and they were all set.
I was already. In fact, we've had a lot of
dignitaries down there, and he was one that Missus Disney
(30:48):
wanted to go down and meet with Krushev.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
She was disappointed he didn't come.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Well, it's certainly not ever an empty place, so I
can understand the security manner I had. We had different
shops places where we take pictures with khruse Chef, and
I had one of my favorite where I lined up
in front of my eight submarines and I'll it'll be nice.
I've been pointing to mister Khrushchev, say well, mister kruse Chef,
here's my Disneyland submarine fleet. It's the eighth larger submarine
(31:20):
fleet in the world.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
Is it right?
Speaker 3 (31:22):
So, despite the fact that you know there's clearly a
lot of tension here, the stated official concern is that
it would be, as we said, so difficult to protect
him in these crowds.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Right. They said they could not guarantee his safety. It's
even the wording of that, taking the wrong way through
a translator, perhaps by a particularly cantankerous man who's used
to getting his way, almost sounds like a bit of
a threat. Yeah, and we can't guarantee your safety.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
And he exploded when he found out we have the quote,
And I say, I would very much like to go
and see Disneyland, but then we cannot guarantee your security.
They say, then, what must I do? Commit suicide?
Speaker 2 (32:05):
What is it?
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Is there an epidemic of cholera there or something, or
if Gangster's taken hold of the place, that can destroy me.
He left Los Angeles the next morning.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
In a huff, no doubt. Oh sure, did you read
who we can kind of blame for planting this idea
in his head? Who wasn't Bob Hope? Apparently at that
luncheon at town Hall where the comment was made by
the twenty century Fox President Bob Hope said that it
was a lovely place and then he really should check
it out. Come on, Bob Hope, causing diplomatic incidents with
(32:39):
your congeniality. And then when Khrushchev erup did this was
he was surrounded by these celebrities and Frank Sinatra apparently
this sounds comical, apparently leaned over to David Niven, and
a lot of us was centered around to Khrushev's wife
wanted to r more the thing and his child. Sinatra
(33:03):
leans over to David Niven and says, tell the old broad,
you and I will take him down there this afternoon.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
And so you know, this is also one of those
things where the guy feels like his social reputations on
the line. If you're married, don't you want your spouse
and your kid to be happy?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Well, But the thing is, the State Department did give
the thumbs up for his wife and daughter to go
to Disneyland, but he couldn't do it. And the way
he's portrayed in these stories, he sounds like a big
man baby where it's like I want to go to Disneyland,
and if I can't go, you can't go, you know,
(33:43):
like he would deny his wife and child the joys
of the happiest place on earth. What a monster?
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Right, is what we call, in today's common parlance, not
a good look. That's an early two thousands turner phrase.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
I guess.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
So when they say they can not guarantee his safety
and therefore he cannot go, even though other members of
his entourage, including his family can, we have to understand there's,
if not a credible threat to security, the consequences of
the Soviet.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Premiere dying in the US are huge. Well, nobody dies
at Disneyland, ben.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Right, I think let's get into an episode on that
a while back.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Maybe we could do it on this show. Sure, but uh,
you know what I'm talking about. It was like that
early It's like a myth. I guess it's.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
A common US it's a common Internet rumor.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yes, that's right.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
But the thing is, if Khrushev did somehow die, even
if it was a complete accident, even if he was
just walking down the street and had a heart attack.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Even if he got decapitated on Space Mountain, we.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Would, as a country, dare I say, as a species,
be much much closer to some sort of international arms exchange.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeah, it's a very tenuous situation. And that's why it's
like it's weird because with politics like this, on the
one hand, you're like, it's all for show, but on
the other hand, it's life and death, whining and dining
these leaders and you know, having successful meetings in a
sense that they are being respected and you know, given
the five star treatment or whatever. And so even this
(35:19):
idea of him being denied entry into Disneyland and him
having a hissy fit that could have set off an
international incident.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
Right, yeah, right, And they were already playing fast and
loose because that musical they mentioned. Apparently Khrushev was not
a fan of that. Later he denounced it as pornographic exploitation.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Didn't you meet Shirley McLain, wasn't she in it?
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Because in the in the musical, he saw Shirley McClain
playing a dancer and Sinatra plays a French lawyer who
falls in love with McClain's character. But the the crazy
thing is just to give you the way the US
later saw this. Wiley Team bu can in the State
Department's Chief of Protocol later described the choice of showing
(36:06):
him this musical as quote, the worst choice imaginable. Ah, yes,
the least good thing we could have done. First of all,
I cannot even begin to imagine Sinatra playing a French person.
It's like a did you ever see that John Wayne
film where he tries to play Genghis Khan?
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Oh? Yeah, Oh that's real. It's a real oof moment.
Oh goodness, gracious.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Yeah, it was in The Conqueror and yeah, they did
that thing and it it didn't seem that great when
it came out, even in nineteen fifty.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Six, and spoiler alert, it did not age. Well. Well,
let's see what the musical with Shirley maclain and Sinatra
was called, right can Can? Ah? Yes? Can Can. I
have not seen it, but I mean I'm interested now
that I know that I get to see Frank Sinatra
playing a Frenchman. It's also got Maurice Chevalier in.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
It, but no Steve Buscemi Alas, So, what happens after
he has denied entry into this American paradise on Earth?
Speaker 2 (37:22):
He kind of goes, he kind of gets over it.
He eventually does get over it, and in the same
trip he makes his way continues the rest of his
itinerary and ends up back in Washington, whereas I said,
they had some very unproductive talks. They had some unproductive talks.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
The US and the Soviet relationship would continue to be
very tense, chili fraught, Yeah, Chili.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Bring your space blanket, a bit frigid.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
And fraught with problems, especially in the nineteen sixty and
sixty one U two planes, the spy aircraft, not planes
flown by Bono in the edge. They become the subject
of an international healthy conversation, and the Cold War would continue.
(38:07):
In October of nineteen sixty four, Khrushev retired from his
office due officially to advanced age and ill health. Notice here,
friends and neighbors, that I say officially, because you see
his request to retire was not voluntary, not entirely voluntary
(38:29):
on his part.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeah. Apparently he was on vacation in Georgia, not in
our Georgia, the other Georgia, Sovietunda, the Jeda Sovia Publico Georgia.
And he was called back and they made him resign
as not only as the premier but also that illustrious
post as the head of the of the Communist Party.
(38:52):
And he lived out the remainder of his life working
on a memoir, and he ultimately died of a heart.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Attack in a deep depression. He had a pension of
five hundred roubles. A month later they cut it the
four hundred.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Oh Man insults injury. Yeah, and it is a dogg
eat dog world over there in Soviet Russia at the
Heights of Power, right.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Yeah, he was a victim of a conspiracy and he
never got to Disneyland.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Sad, but you can. You can, yeah, if you got
about five hundred dollars.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
To blow and the free time in the travel. But again,
one of my favorite things about it is you just
have to be in town to see those beautiful fireworks.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I haveted not to go because I was looking at
the rides and stuff and I'm like, these are all
like kid rides. But then I guess it's all about
the design and the experience. And I'm also not a
fan of waiting in lines if I can avoided all.
I don't think anyone's a fan of waiting in line,
It's true, but there's a there's a cost versus reward
suasion for me where it's like, all right, what's the
(39:57):
line for how much do I want it? How along
the line am I willing to wait? In Disneyland, it
seems like a series of lines.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
For me, roller coasters are a tough cell. There's also
a lot of corruption in Disney World and Disneyland. There
was recently with the use of different sorts of passes.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Oh, you mean like bootlegging fast passes or just like like.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Legging fast passes, traveling with someone who has a physical disability, right,
so that you can jump in the line.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
For me, there's line mule.
Speaker 4 (40:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
For me, there's a huge cost benefit analysis that makes
roller coasters a tough sell, especially on crowded day, because
it's not just that you're waiting for forty five minutes
or an hour, it's that you're waiting for something that
takes three minutes.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Oh, totally a really good point. I have season passes
to six flags here in Georgia, and I will only
go during the down season because I went, like on
the first day of summer with my kid. We waited
in line for an hour and a half, got to
the front of the line, and the ride broke and
we broke us. Mentally, we're like going home. But thankfully
(41:01):
we have season basses. It wasn't like we traveled, you know,
across the country here right this roller question speaking.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Of things across the country and even across the world.
It's a shame that Krushev never got to go to Disneyland.
But I think it leads us to an inspiring question.
What's your favorite amusement park in your part of the world,
one that a lot of people might not know? Up
for us here in Atlanta, it's Six Flags over Georgia.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Yeah, And what's the next step for us diplomatically as
far as amusement parks are concerned? Is it going to
be Kim Jong Lunn goes to Magic Mountain? Yeah? Can
you tell me?
Speaker 3 (41:35):
Is Vladimir Putin gonna make it to Universal Studios?
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Finally see that Harry Potter Land I keep hearing so
much about.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Let us know on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter, where you
can find us as Ridiculous History. Also, as we always
like to say, check out our community page, Ridiculous Historians.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, we got some fun conversations there and little extra
bits and bobs that, you know, help give you a
richer Ridiculous history experience. And oh my goodness, last episode
we totally neglected to do credits, So we're gonna do
credits for two episodes because last episode it's very important,
very important, because last episode the one about election rigging
(42:17):
and drunken debauchery at the polls.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
Yeah, it came to us courtesy of our researcher, Eve's
Jeff Code.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Eves Jeff Code. It was her first submission helping us
along on that one, and we wanted to. We were
remiss in not thinking her during the actual episodes, so
we're trying to make up for that now.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
I'd also like to point out that Eves is a
co host on two other fantastic house stuff work shows,
Stuff Mom Never Told You and Afro Punk Solution Sessions,
which Casey I actually worked on in the very early days.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Oh and you too were that I did. Yeah, that
was a fun one. So check both of those out
on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, and
be sure to drop us a nice review if you
don't mind, just to you know. It makes us feel
good in our hearts, and it also supposedly helps the
iTunes algorithm shove our show into people's ears.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
And thanks to super producer Casey Pegrin, thanks to Alex
Williams for composing the track. Thanks to our research assistant
Christopher Hasiotis, who tipped us through this strange story of
the Cold War, and Walt Disney, and.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Please join us next time when we go into the
interesting and potentially sordid past of the song Louie Louie
by the Kingsman. It's going to be a rollicking good
time full of music, and might just have a special
guest up with. We'll do our best to have intelligible
lyrics that's true. See then. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
(43:49):
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
You guys like Disneyland, right, You know I'm into Disneyland
since I was a little little kid.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
But I do love disney World.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
It's a land all its own, and you would never
want to be banned.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Oh neverland.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
No, that's rhymes too, but I'll tell you. During the
height of the Cold War, a series of debates held
in a weirdly like model kitchen in Moscow led the
premiere of Russia, Nikita Khrushchev, to come to the US
on a whirlwind, you know, public tour, publicity tour, and
(00:35):
ended up at Disneyland, where things did not go particularly well.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yes, Ridiculous Historians, please join us in today's classic episode,
where we explore Khrushev's doomed quest to meet Mickey Mouse.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Indeed, let's roll it.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeart Welcome to the show,
(01:25):
Ridiculous Historians. Thank you for tuning in. We hope that
you brought a fluffy coat or a nice heavy blanket
because this episode is going to be cold Cold War esque. Look,
not all the intros are going to be winners.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Hi, I'm Ben. You've never seen the space blankets that
they give the refugee children. I have one in my car.
I'm sorry, I really took a dark turn there, but
they look like the things you'd put in your window
to keep the sun from heating up your tight leather seats. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Those emergency blankets are incredible, and if you are someone
who routinely drives long distances, I highly recommend putting one
in your go bag.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
And also one of those things you can use to
break the glass from the inside in case you ever
go off a cliff or into the ocean or a
lake somebody of water.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
And make sure you get the kind that will let
you cut the seatbelt.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
It's like an extra attachment, a little.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Razor almost right behind the hammer. But why are we
talking about being prepared? Why are we talking about cold
war stuff?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Hey? Your nol?
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Right?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Oh yeah, still me?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
And who is that handsome devil just outside the booth
on the ones and twos?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Are that good boy out there? Our boy Casey Pegram, Yes,
super producer Casey Pegram m hm. Hey remember that song
by Da Da called I'm Going to Disneyland? Yeah? Actually yeah,
it's like this is a part where it says, hitched
a rat on a monkey's back, headed west didn't the
(03:00):
black I'm going to Disneyland. Bandang dang to dang dang dang.
You know he's not going to Disneyland. Nikitakrushev. Yep.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
We were going to tease it out a little bit
with the history of Disneyland, but let's let's just get
right to the heart.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Of the matter.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Disneyland is an iconic American thing, right, It's one of
the world's most famous amusement parks, and people from across
the planet associated with the American dream, the iconic image
of what Americans do for fun.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Right.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
You've You've probably met some people from abroad who just
assume you've been to Disneyland.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
What do you do at Disneyland, Ben.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Well, let's see you can watch the fireworks for free that.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
You I've seen that. I've been to Anaheim and I
did not go to Disneyland. But those fireworks they probably
get real dull to the people that live there, and
they're just like, oh.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Look, now you recall I saw them. I saw them too,
because I was in the same car driving us back.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
From the beach. You're right, Ben, I have a short
memory when it comes to beach related things. So with
this in mind.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
We also have to look at the context of the
Cold War, and when we talk about the Cold War,
we must mention and explore the life and times of
the Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev, or as he's called in
one of those press releases of the time.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Oh yeah, they give this a newsreel. Well, let's just
hear it, Sylvia. At Premier Khrushchov meets the masters of
movie them at a studio luncheon on the twentieth century
Fox lot in Hollywood, a meeting at which mister k
gives himself quite a build up. Yeah. I don't know
if this guy is like smarter than us and all
(04:49):
the rest of the people I've ever heard pronounce his name,
But he says it a little funny.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah, And I wonder Truv. Yeah, and I wonder too,
if this is a matter of the the vestiges of
Transatlantic accent that was used commonly back in the day
for broadcast and radio.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Maybe it's secretly like a dig they're mispronouncing his name
on purpose.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah, maybe it's some nefariest attempted propagandistic demeaning.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Because here's the thing, this clip that we just heard,
obviously was from Khrushchev's tour of the United States in
nineteen fifty nine, and you know, he does the kind
of touristy things you think you might do. He went
to New York City, You went to Los Angeles and
Des Moines. What he went to Des Moines. It's a
(05:38):
weird choice. It's a very popular, very popular city. What's
in des Moines? Americans? Man, it's very okay. So he
was touring the American dream, so he had to see
what it's like in the big cities, and then he
had to see what it's like in Des Moines, which
I'm sure is lovely. By the way.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Oh yeah, it's the capital and most populous city in Iowa.
It's the it's the big tent of Iowa.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I think that's where Slipknot the band is from. I
believe you're right, it's definitely Iowa.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Right and off air, while we were prepping for this episode,
Casey brought up a fantastic parallel that nicely compliments our
Khrushchev Khrushev question, Casey, maybe could you explain it for us?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Is just Casey on the case? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (06:21):
I was thinking if maybe when they first started reporting
on this guy, they didn't have the pronunciation quite down yet,
which is kind of seems to have happened much more
recently in the news with Robert Muller, or as he
was initially known, Robert Mueller. And it's kind of strange,
how like all the news coverage sort of shifted to
that updated pronunciation. Just something I kind of picked up on.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
And that's been Casey on the case. I love that segment.
I love that guy, Yes, unreservedly. Someone who was a
little bit tougher to love, of course, was Kita Khrushchev.
What do you say, No, we want to talk a
little bit about his life and times to power pre
us tour.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Have you seen The Death of Stalin? The movie watched
on a place. It's great, so good. If anyone hasn't
seen it, I highly recommend it to get a little
info on what led to Khrushchev gaining power. He was
born in April fifteenth of eighteen ninety four in a
Russian village called Kilinovka, and he ended up joining the Bolsheviks,
(07:24):
the Communist Bolsheviks, and rising in the ranks quite quickly
found his way into the inner circle of our man
Joseph Stalin, who ruled Soviet Russia with an iron fist.
I was a platinum.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
This was a neutron star of a fist massive pressure.
In fact, the death of Stalin the historical occurrence, not
just the film, could be its own episode because it
is tragically ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Oh tragically, and the movie really leans on that. It's
this incredible director, satirist, Armando Yanucci, who was responsible for
the show Veep, and he also did another show that
was similarly satirical and political called The Thick of It
that aired on British television. But this film Death of Stalin,
it uses the absurdity that you might see in something
(08:13):
like Curb Your Enthusiasm. This kind of like slapstick, almost
just cartoonish buffoonery of the jockeyings of these various members
of Stalin's inner circle to one up each other and
get the upper hand after the leader dies, and in
the end Khrushchev who's played by Steve Bushemi, who doesn't
put on a Russian accent. That's part of the joy
of the movie too, as they all use their own voices.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
And your first question whenever you're contemplating scene a film
is is Steve it is this has the Seal of
a and.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
He plays Krushchev and it's he plays it. So I
don't know what the word is. It's like he's he's
got that. He's got that Steve bushmi skittering nervous energy,
just like you'd think he's not Peter very much. So yeah, yeah, yeah,
Peter Lauri like who does well he did all those
months movies right, like yeah, anyways, got that look with
those those chemi eyes. Yeah yeah, dreamy, slash, sunken and large.
(09:08):
You know what else has that look? Is the protagonist
in oh what's that? Uh mister Robot. Yeah yeah yeah,
Romey Mallick, Yeah, playing plane. Freddy Mercury and the New
Queen biopic it looks okay.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah, it was supposed to be Sasha Baron Cohen, but
they left over creative differences, which is a shame.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
I'd love to see that film. Well, I wouldn't be
surprised that those creative differences remain, and they wash over
some of the more controversial parts of Freddy mrcury store.
But we're not talking about Freddy Mercury.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
So before before we get to Khrushchev. Let's let's step
back to the death of Stalin and right before his life,
because we say that he ruled with a with a
massive heavy hand, and we hear that often about different
political leaders, but in Stalin's case, this, uh, this is
(09:58):
not an exaggeration, and that is a very unfortunate truth.
He was legendary for not just killing people, but removing
them from history, having them scrubbed out of photographs. He
was brutal, ruthless, relentless, had no friends, only interest, and
was also known to regularly replace members of his inner circle,
(10:21):
not because they had done anything or even tried to
do anything, but because he did not want someone consistently
being there, because he saw that as just a longer
length of time for them to undermine him, yes, or
try to grab powers.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
He's that kind of paranoid that everyone will eventually betray me.
And that's why the way that it's depicted in this
movie is so cool, because it's just this, no one
trusts anybody, because that's the precedent that's been set, and
that's the attitude that kind of purveyed throughout the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
We're going to talk a little bit about his death.
He died, as I said, March in nineteen fifty three,
on the first of March. A few days beforehand, his
staff found him semi conscious on the bedroom floor. He
had suffered a cerebral hemorrhage. And even now after this
very terrible, difficult death, people still suspect that he may
(11:12):
have been murdered. So keep this in mind when we
talk about Khrushev, who, as we established, does win this
power struggle, Khrushev remains a possible murder suspect.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Everyone was a suspect, right, like that was. I mean,
there's this as soon as someone realizes that he is dead,
there's this immediate rush to point fingers anywhere else but
at oneself in his inner circle. Right.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
And one of the things that I think inspires or
informs the film The Death of Stalin is just how
terrified people were to disturb him while he's dead. They
thought that he might still be alive and that they
would encounter the death penalty for waking him from his
slumber that you know, turned out to be an eternal slumber.
(11:58):
And Khrushchev Ushchev, who did succeed and become the ruler
in this chaotic.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
What'd you call it? Charad?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Sure, this chaotic charad. And Khrushev becomes the first Secretary
of the Communist Party there in the USSR on the
fourteenth of September in nineteen fifty three, and then by
nineteen fifty eight March he moves up to become the
chairman of the Council of Ministers.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
And I believe he was already the head of the
Communist Party, the highest ranking official, only six months after
the death of Stalin, and then it was governed. The
USSR was governed by a collective many for several years,
and then he became premier after George Malankov. That's right.
(12:47):
Malankov was a guy that was played by Jeffrey Tambor
in the movie, and he's sort of a patsy, right.
The way he's portrayed in the movie is like he
gets the top job, but no one likes him, and
he's kind of everyone thinks he's sort of a buffoon.
He likes to be the one that's sort of the
smiling face of the party, but behind the scenes he's
(13:07):
portrayed as kind of an idiot.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Right, And there's a huge geopolitical context to this as well,
because you'll notice we mentioned different dates. In the fifties,
the Cold War is in full swing between the USSR
and the United States, or I mean most particularly through them.
But then that also factors in some forces they're friendly
(13:31):
with the USSR, some forces that are historically friendly with
the US. In this time, both leaders of these countries
are attempting to minimize the possibility of a catastrophic atomic
war ultimately, right, And that's when we see things like
the concept of mutually assured destruction, of the idea that
(13:55):
the only way to prevent nuclear weapons being deployed is
if your enemies can also retaliate, you know, and they.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Know you can.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
So there's a lot of propaganda that goes on. Khrushev
is to this day the recipient of some misquotes. You
know that history is kind of exaggerated.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
What was the bigie you mentioned earlier, Ben.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
What's called the shoe banging incident? You remember this one, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
It's like when Bush got the shoe thrown at him,
but kind of in reverse.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Oh, here's an episode idea, Pitch, tell us what you
think of this, Folks, History's most important shoes there you go,
it could be like a new version of weird people
who built weird things.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeay, I like the shoes that built a nation or
crushed one tore it down. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
So in nineteen this is just an outside of chronology example.
And in nineteen sixty at the United Nations General Assembly
in October, Khrushchev pounded his shoe in public protesting a
speech by a delegate from the Philippines, and then the
(15:02):
story spread in a propagandistic way and multiple versions proliferated.
But this all goes to show these were intense times.
And regardless of how you feel about Khrushev and Nixon,
when we go back to the fifties, the fact of
the matter is that they were trying to, at least
(15:24):
on some levels, they were trying to prevent a civilization
leveling war, and they engaged in something that ended up
being called the kitchen debate. They sat down with them
and their interpreters and had what corporate America today would
(15:44):
call a healthy conversation about their differing viewpoints.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
It wasn't about like interior design.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
It was not about it was not about the advantages
of an island kitchen layout, nor was it about whether
or not to have a trash compactor in the World House. Instead,
it was it was about their vastly different views of
which economic system was superior, capitalism and this representative democracy idea,
(16:14):
or communism and a more centralized economy. Khrushev, like Nixon,
being a man with a temper, had impassioned arguments, and
it was Actually it did take place in a kitchen.
It was in a model kitchen at the American National
Exhibition in Moscow.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
So it's like you and me getting in a fight
at an Ikea. That's not too much of a stretch man.
Every time I go into an Ikea, I feel like
I go a little bit insane, the way they trap
you in those hedge mazes of tiny furniture and accessories.
You gotta know the short cut. I know the shortcuts, man,
but it still doesn't just it's so it did. It
hurts my brain and I always find myself like this
(16:56):
close to flying off the handle. I love it, man,
I love Ikia flying off the time any Swedish ergonomic handle.
There we go, There we go.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
There was a guy I can't remember where it was,
it was definitely in the States who while his apartment
was being fixed, cracked a deal with his local Ikea
to live there.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Did you hear about that?
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I wonder if you could pull that kind of scenario
off in an ikea. I feel like you could hide
under one of those little hideaway beds and yeah, you know,
kind of stow away in the ikea.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
They have a lot of cameras though in surprising places.
But I guess all that has to do with today's
episode is mass surveillance. Right, So what's the outcome of
this debate? They were just verbally abusing each other. It
did not come to fisticuffs, and it appeared to have
a good result.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Oh thank god. What kind of result was that they
agreed that.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Khrushchev, the leader of the Soviet Union, would visit the US.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Mister Khrushchev comes to Washington.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Right, And this comes about so to be clear, Richard
Nixon vice president at this time, when he was visiting Moscow.
It's not as if the president of the time visited Russia.
That would be Dwight Eisenhower. So President Eisenhower decided to
invite Khrushchev kind of inspired by this kitchen debate talk
(18:15):
and also buy some concerns about Berlin.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, for sure, because it was also Khrushev. I believe that, okayed,
the building of the Berlin won't.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Yeah, tensions are high, big time.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
So what do you do with a diplomatic tour like this, Benjamin.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Well, Nolgamen, you are immediately confronted by a ton of considerations. Yeah,
first what we call today the optics, right, and then
both sides probably have competing opinions about what should be depicted.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Because it's go for show. I mean, let's be real,
what else is there to accomplish?
Speaker 4 (18:53):
You know?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
I even read like he came back at the end
for some very unproductive which I'm sure ultimately, these kitchen
debates didn't exactly set the world on fire in terms
of like, oh communism is good or oh capitalism is good.
It's like maybe we just should hang out and not
shoot missiles at each other.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah, which is an excellent starting point.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
You know, Ben, when you put it like that, that
add is a pretty good outcome. I don't know what
I was saying, but Ben considerations.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Well, first off, wouldn't it have been amazing? Wouldn't the
world be such a different place if either of them
have persuaded the other one. I just I'm interested in
your idea because can you imagine Nixon coming back to
the US and saying, guys, I gotten an argument in
this model kitchen, and I'm convinced we should be Communists.
That would be amazing. He probably wouldn't have been president.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
No, something that would have gone over too well with
these small business owners of America.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
So we found this great article on the Smithsonian Nikita
Krushev goes to Hollywood that examines some of the timeline
and some of the factors playing into this famous visit.
And we mentioned optics. But another huge, huge concern is security,
right hmm.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah. I mean they had like parades in Washington, and
I think it was some of the biggest attendants of
any foreign dignitary centric parade, right, because people wanted to
get a load of this guy, right, I mean, this
was like he loomed large in the consciousness of the
American public being you know, this big, bad kind of
(20:34):
you know that was like pointing missiles at us. Yeah,
and he fucking covering all that, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
And he was such a ham when he initially showed
up there. Eisenhower read a welcoming speech when Khrushev landed
in September fifteenth, nineteen fifty nine, and during the whole
time Khrushev was mugging, was like doing it.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
You mean, he was like he like was perse snatching.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Yeah, that's what he was doing from the stage, which
was really weird.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
People just kept walking up. That's tough, man.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
He was doing a Luckily he's doing a much friendlier
version of that. He was like, picture him.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Oh he's a goofy looking dude. Yeah, oh yeah, he's
got a big old gap tooth and this like kind
of funny double chin and just like a odd shaped
face and shad shaved head, just very clownish kind of look.
And I'm not that's not passing judgment. Look at the guy.
He's got an odd vibe.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
And he uh, he embraced it, at least at this
part because while wild Eyes now I was talking, he
was like waving his hat at people.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
He winked at a little girl. Uh.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
He clearly wasn't paying too much attention because remember he
was he hears English through interpreters, right, So he saw
a butterfly go by and just had to turn and
like see yes, yes, crucive in America, one reporter. One
reporter said he stole the show with the studied nonchalance
(22:02):
of an old vaudeville trooper.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
That you know, that's funny. I'm looking at this picture too,
from that news clip we played earlier, and it's it's
him posing next to Ike and I believe Eisenhower's wife,
and Eisenhower is just stony faced with his arms crossed
in front of him, and Krushchev is just goofully grinning
from ear to ear. Because he got to think, man,
he was probably being cocky about it, right. It's like,
(22:27):
I mean, we welcome him with open arms, you know,
gave him a parade. He sort of probably felt like
he had he got one over on old Ike. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
And then he also he felt like this was an opportunity.
We're speculating here, but he also had to feel like,
this is an opportunity to show the people of the
US that I'm not this scary, monstrous entity. But he's
You can find these great anecdotes of different parts of
(22:57):
his visit, but we also have to miss it. A
lot of this was calculated, right, It had to be
oh yeah, and there's this story where he went to
a farm in Maryland and he quote petted a pig
and complained that it was too fat, then grabbed a
turkey and griped that it was too small. So he's
(23:17):
just like doing live comedy book.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Oh I saw a thing about the turkey. He said, Oh,
in Russia, we only like fat turkeys. Just like, what
kind of thing you say is that? And you know,
all seems to be going to plan. I still want
to know what he did in des Moines, probably visited.
I get he was doing like the Heartland kind of situation, right, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
The Soviet embassy in the days leading up to the
visit and the week's leading up to the visit, they
received hundreds of letters from small and large towns in
the US that were inviting Khrushev and the Soviet delegation.
They were saying, like, come to our county fair. It's
happening while you're in the country. You can you know,
(24:01):
you can enter afloat, said the chairman of the Minnesota
Apple Festival.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
If you have an idea, let us know. I gotta go.
And I found a picture of him on his visit
to Des Moines, where there's quite a rotund fellow in
front of him. We're wearing some overalls, and you see
Khrutschev patting his belly and the quote next to the
picture is, now that is it a real American? Is
(24:26):
that okay? You're gonna do the Russian accent? I think so.
I think it's in good fun. It's in good fun
and in good faith, good faith.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Yeah, sure so so he uh, he had all these
these strange, amazing dog.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
And pony show moments.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Yeah, hilarious encounters, I would say. And what I always
think is missing from this story and what I would
love to learn more about is what that interpreter went through,
because you know, he had to basically be Khrushchev's shadow, yeah,
and translate whatever wild kakammy stuff this guy was spouting
off with into something that sounded reasonable.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yes, that's true. I always wondered about that, dude. Do
uh interpreters ever editorialized? Do you think they're ever given
like special instructions from like higher ups where it's like, look,
don't translate exactly what this crazy dude says. Try to
soften the blow a little bit, you know.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
You know, there are some pretty hard and fast rules
about that. Yeah, depending on what type of interpretation or
what kind of sphere it occurs in. But one of
the weird things about these different languages is that in
some languages you can say things in a way that
you cannot in other languages. Right, Yeah, So you might
(25:43):
say tell them I want to make the deal, but
it's no walk in the park. And if they say
that in the other language, that doesn't make any sense.
That's so they have to say something else.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
It might be something like that's no butter on the blanket, right,
I don't know. And you know what it makes me
think of, too, is there's people that do some language
and rap concerts. Surely they're taking some liberties as well.
That's just you know, a lot of information going by.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
I'm interested. I'm very interested in that. You know, it
may surprise some people to learn that signing the signing
languages also differ by language. There's like we know asl
here in the US, we know of it rather but
if someone who is who can sign travels to China
or more appropriately Russia for this.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Episode, they might be entirely adrift. Yeah. See, we haven't
lost the plot. We're still talking about Russia. Yeah, we
got there. So let's let's get to the heart of
the matter.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Everything's everything at least umpt Yeah, he's having a great time.
He goes to Hollywood and people are super excited to
see him. I believe that the he made a deal
with twentieth century Fox to watch the filming of a
Broadway musical.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yeah, I think he did a studio tour, right, and
the president of twentieth century Fox at the time, a
man named Spiro Scuras, introduced him at a special luncheon
at Los Angeles' town Hall. And this is actually where
a little static got into the mix. That's kind of
when things started going south. Scorus made a bit of
(27:19):
a joke about referencing this line that Khrushev had said
in the past that the Soviet Union would bury capitalism,
and he said something to the effect of, in la
we were not interested in burying anyone, but we would
meet any challenge. And then Khrushev, very mythed responds, if
you want to go on with the arms race, very well,
(27:42):
we accept that challenge. As for the output of rockets,
well they are on the assembly line. This is a
most serious question. It is one of life or death.
Leaders and gentlemen, one of war and peace. Oh yeah,
that little Dog and Pony show took a took a turn.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah, those dogs started Biden, but this and those ponies
started kicking.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
I feel like as they do, just to complete that reference.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
But this is just the beginning. As Billy Mays was
wont to say, wait, there's more. Khrushev, who again I
think we said earlier, had a notorious temper. His anger
went through the roof when he learned that not only
was Spiroscorross part of what he saw as a campaign
to heckle him. Did you see that part? He thought
(28:28):
there was a campaign to heckle.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Him throughout the US, trying to make a fool of me.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I know, I am the one who makes a fool
of me.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Oh is that a butterfly? And right?
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And he became even more incensed when he learned that
of all the places he was going, of all the
places he had planned to visit, one was off limits
to him now, and that was Disneyland.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
It's only the happiest place on Earth.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Fireworks every night, guys, I'm telling you. So we could
reasonably assume that maybe he was being punished by not
being led in to Disneyland, like, hey, if you start
threatening people, including everyone in our country, with this idea
of rockets bombarding citizens, then you can't go to our
(29:16):
funnest place.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Well, now, you know, That's that's what I thought. I
figured it was like someone saying, na, man, we don't
want you here. Disney himself even right, who, who, as
we know, was no fan of communism. He's a you know,
tried and true capitalist all the way. But it turns
out it was as much more likely that the security
you were talking about. Ben those considerations. It was just
(29:39):
too much to handle for a guy like that to
be able to go and have a nice fun day
at Disneyland without like shutting the whole park down and
devoting devoting the whole thing to him. And you know, man,
it's not gonna happen. Yeah, who you are? You know,
no one gets Disneyland for a day, right, not even Walt,
Not even Walt.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
And we have a we have a short clip here
of Walt Disney actually speaking about Khrushev.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Kruschev was a guest of the government, So, I mean,
we were ready to receive Khrushchev, but it so happened
that the security problem here in Los Angeles because actually
Disneyland is in another county, and the chief of police.
We can't blame him. He had quite a chore there
to carry out.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
He just was a little worried.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
About somebody maybe walking in Disneyland with a shopping bag
and what they might have in it. You'd never know,
you know exactly. We were ready for him, The press
was ready. Both the State Department security and the Soviet
security had come in case Disneyland and they were all set.
I was already. In fact, we've had a lot of
dignitaries down there, and he was one that Missus Disney
(30:48):
wanted to go down and meet with Krushev.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
She was disappointed he didn't come.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Well, it's certainly not ever an empty place, so I
can understand the security manner I had. We had different
shops places where we take pictures with khruse Chef, and
I had one of my favorite where I lined up
in front of my eight submarines and I'll it'll be nice.
I've been pointing to mister Khrushchev, say well, mister kruse Chef,
here's my Disneyland submarine fleet. It's the eighth larger submarine
(31:20):
fleet in the world.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
Is it right?
Speaker 3 (31:22):
So, despite the fact that you know there's clearly a
lot of tension here, the stated official concern is that
it would be, as we said, so difficult to protect
him in these crowds.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Right. They said they could not guarantee his safety. It's
even the wording of that, taking the wrong way through
a translator, perhaps by a particularly cantankerous man who's used
to getting his way, almost sounds like a bit of
a threat. Yeah, and we can't guarantee your safety.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
And he exploded when he found out we have the quote,
And I say, I would very much like to go
and see Disneyland, but then we cannot guarantee your security.
They say, then, what must I do? Commit suicide?
Speaker 2 (32:05):
What is it?
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Is there an epidemic of cholera there or something, or
if Gangster's taken hold of the place, that can destroy me.
He left Los Angeles the next morning.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
In a huff, no doubt. Oh sure, did you read
who we can kind of blame for planting this idea
in his head? Who wasn't Bob Hope? Apparently at that
luncheon at town Hall where the comment was made by
the twenty century Fox President Bob Hope said that it
was a lovely place and then he really should check
it out. Come on, Bob Hope, causing diplomatic incidents with
(32:39):
your congeniality. And then when Khrushchev erup did this was
he was surrounded by these celebrities and Frank Sinatra apparently
this sounds comical, apparently leaned over to David Niven, and
a lot of us was centered around to Khrushev's wife
wanted to r more the thing and his child. Sinatra
(33:03):
leans over to David Niven and says, tell the old broad,
you and I will take him down there this afternoon.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
And so you know, this is also one of those
things where the guy feels like his social reputations on
the line. If you're married, don't you want your spouse
and your kid to be happy?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Well, But the thing is, the State Department did give
the thumbs up for his wife and daughter to go
to Disneyland, but he couldn't do it. And the way
he's portrayed in these stories, he sounds like a big
man baby where it's like I want to go to Disneyland,
and if I can't go, you can't go, you know,
(33:43):
like he would deny his wife and child the joys
of the happiest place on earth. What a monster?
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Right, is what we call, in today's common parlance, not
a good look. That's an early two thousands turner phrase.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
I guess.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
So when they say they can not guarantee his safety
and therefore he cannot go, even though other members of
his entourage, including his family can, we have to understand there's,
if not a credible threat to security, the consequences of
the Soviet.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Premiere dying in the US are huge. Well, nobody dies
at Disneyland, ben.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Right, I think let's get into an episode on that
a while back.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Maybe we could do it on this show. Sure, but uh,
you know what I'm talking about. It was like that
early It's like a myth. I guess it's.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
A common US it's a common Internet rumor.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yes, that's right.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
But the thing is, if Khrushev did somehow die, even
if it was a complete accident, even if he was
just walking down the street and had a heart attack.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Even if he got decapitated on Space Mountain, we.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Would, as a country, dare I say, as a species,
be much much closer to some sort of international arms exchange.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeah, it's a very tenuous situation. And that's why it's
like it's weird because with politics like this, on the
one hand, you're like, it's all for show, but on
the other hand, it's life and death, whining and dining
these leaders and you know, having successful meetings in a
sense that they are being respected and you know, given
the five star treatment or whatever. And so even this
(35:19):
idea of him being denied entry into Disneyland and him
having a hissy fit that could have set off an
international incident.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
Right, yeah, right, And they were already playing fast and
loose because that musical they mentioned. Apparently Khrushev was not
a fan of that. Later he denounced it as pornographic exploitation.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Didn't you meet Shirley McLain, wasn't she in it?
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Because in the in the musical, he saw Shirley McClain
playing a dancer and Sinatra plays a French lawyer who
falls in love with McClain's character. But the the crazy
thing is just to give you the way the US
later saw this. Wiley Team bu can in the State
Department's Chief of Protocol later described the choice of showing
(36:06):
him this musical as quote, the worst choice imaginable. Ah, yes,
the least good thing we could have done. First of all,
I cannot even begin to imagine Sinatra playing a French person.
It's like a did you ever see that John Wayne
film where he tries to play Genghis Khan?
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Oh? Yeah, Oh that's real. It's a real oof moment.
Oh goodness, gracious.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Yeah, it was in The Conqueror and yeah, they did
that thing and it it didn't seem that great when
it came out, even in nineteen fifty.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Six, and spoiler alert, it did not age. Well. Well,
let's see what the musical with Shirley maclain and Sinatra
was called, right can Can? Ah? Yes? Can Can. I
have not seen it, but I mean I'm interested now
that I know that I get to see Frank Sinatra
playing a Frenchman. It's also got Maurice Chevalier in.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
It, but no Steve Buscemi Alas, So, what happens after
he has denied entry into this American paradise on Earth?
Speaker 2 (37:22):
He kind of goes, he kind of gets over it.
He eventually does get over it, and in the same
trip he makes his way continues the rest of his
itinerary and ends up back in Washington, whereas I said,
they had some very unproductive talks. They had some unproductive talks.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
The US and the Soviet relationship would continue to be
very tense, chili fraught, Yeah, Chili.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Bring your space blanket, a bit frigid.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
And fraught with problems, especially in the nineteen sixty and
sixty one U two planes, the spy aircraft, not planes
flown by Bono in the edge. They become the subject
of an international healthy conversation, and the Cold War would continue.
(38:07):
In October of nineteen sixty four, Khrushev retired from his
office due officially to advanced age and ill health. Notice here,
friends and neighbors, that I say officially, because you see
his request to retire was not voluntary, not entirely voluntary
(38:29):
on his part.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeah. Apparently he was on vacation in Georgia, not in
our Georgia, the other Georgia, Sovietunda, the Jeda Sovia Publico Georgia.
And he was called back and they made him resign
as not only as the premier but also that illustrious
post as the head of the of the Communist Party.
(38:52):
And he lived out the remainder of his life working
on a memoir, and he ultimately died of a heart.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Attack in a deep depression. He had a pension of
five hundred roubles. A month later they cut it the
four hundred.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Oh Man insults injury. Yeah, and it is a dogg
eat dog world over there in Soviet Russia at the
Heights of Power, right.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Yeah, he was a victim of a conspiracy and he
never got to Disneyland.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Sad, but you can. You can, yeah, if you got
about five hundred dollars.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
To blow and the free time in the travel. But again,
one of my favorite things about it is you just
have to be in town to see those beautiful fireworks.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I haveted not to go because I was looking at
the rides and stuff and I'm like, these are all
like kid rides. But then I guess it's all about
the design and the experience. And I'm also not a
fan of waiting in lines if I can avoided all.
I don't think anyone's a fan of waiting in line,
It's true, but there's a there's a cost versus reward
suasion for me where it's like, all right, what's the
(39:57):
line for how much do I want it? How along
the line am I willing to wait? In Disneyland, it
seems like a series of lines.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
For me, roller coasters are a tough cell. There's also
a lot of corruption in Disney World and Disneyland. There
was recently with the use of different sorts of passes.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Oh, you mean like bootlegging fast passes or just like like.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Legging fast passes, traveling with someone who has a physical disability, right,
so that you can jump in the line.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
For me, there's line mule.
Speaker 4 (40:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
For me, there's a huge cost benefit analysis that makes
roller coasters a tough sell, especially on crowded day, because
it's not just that you're waiting for forty five minutes
or an hour, it's that you're waiting for something that
takes three minutes.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Oh, totally a really good point. I have season passes
to six flags here in Georgia, and I will only
go during the down season because I went, like on
the first day of summer with my kid. We waited
in line for an hour and a half, got to
the front of the line, and the ride broke and
we broke us. Mentally, we're like going home. But thankfully
(41:01):
we have season basses. It wasn't like we traveled, you know,
across the country here right this roller question speaking.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Of things across the country and even across the world.
It's a shame that Krushev never got to go to Disneyland.
But I think it leads us to an inspiring question.
What's your favorite amusement park in your part of the world,
one that a lot of people might not know? Up
for us here in Atlanta, it's Six Flags over Georgia.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Yeah, And what's the next step for us diplomatically as
far as amusement parks are concerned? Is it going to
be Kim Jong Lunn goes to Magic Mountain? Yeah? Can
you tell me?
Speaker 3 (41:35):
Is Vladimir Putin gonna make it to Universal Studios?
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Finally see that Harry Potter Land I keep hearing so
much about.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Let us know on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter, where you
can find us as Ridiculous History. Also, as we always
like to say, check out our community page, Ridiculous Historians.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, we got some fun conversations there and little extra
bits and bobs that, you know, help give you a
richer Ridiculous history experience. And oh my goodness, last episode
we totally neglected to do credits, So we're gonna do
credits for two episodes because last episode it's very important,
very important, because last episode the one about election rigging
(42:17):
and drunken debauchery at the polls.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
Yeah, it came to us courtesy of our researcher, Eve's
Jeff Code.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Eves Jeff Code. It was her first submission helping us
along on that one, and we wanted to. We were
remiss in not thinking her during the actual episodes, so
we're trying to make up for that now.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
I'd also like to point out that Eves is a
co host on two other fantastic house stuff work shows,
Stuff Mom Never Told You and Afro Punk Solution Sessions,
which Casey I actually worked on in the very early days.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Oh and you too were that I did. Yeah, that
was a fun one. So check both of those out
on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, and
be sure to drop us a nice review if you
don't mind, just to you know. It makes us feel
good in our hearts, and it also supposedly helps the
iTunes algorithm shove our show into people's ears.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
And thanks to super producer Casey Pegrin, thanks to Alex
Williams for composing the track. Thanks to our research assistant
Christopher Hasiotis, who tipped us through this strange story of
the Cold War, and Walt Disney, and.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Please join us next time when we go into the
interesting and potentially sordid past of the song Louie Louie
by the Kingsman. It's going to be a rollicking good
time full of music, and might just have a special
guest up with. We'll do our best to have intelligible
lyrics that's true. See then. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
(43:49):
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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