January 19, 2021 • 33 mins
Daniel Sickles was a real pill. For a time, the wealthy New Yorker was famous for his philandering -- and then he became famous for not only murdering a man in broad daylight... but getting away with it by pleading temporary insanity. Learn more about this American scoundrel in part one of this two-part series.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Ye,
(00:27):
welcome to the show Ridiculous Historians. As always, thank you
so much for tuning in. Uh this is this is
gonna be a fun one. Um. No, I would say
that you and I are at times rambunctious, but I
wouldn't say I wouldn't say we're scally wags or scoundrels.
What do you think, you know? I've often fancied myself
(00:49):
been a bit of a rapscallion from time to time,
and then only because I'm incorrigible, you just can't take
me anywhere. But now I don't think I may have
in past life dipped my toe into the shallow end
of the scoundrel pool, but I've certainly reformed long since.
So yeah, I think we can squarely say neither of us,
including super producer Casey Pegram, our scoundrels. I've always you know,
(01:14):
before the word became politically charged, I liked to think
of myself as a maverick based on that Mel Gibson film.
It was it was like a card shark, right, Yes,
it was a maverick. And when we were getting ready
for this episode, I know out of the three of us.
I can't be the only one who thought of the
film Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. Do you remember that one? I do.
(01:36):
That's the one about the dirty rotten Scoundrels. That's right,
that's a very student summary. Also, Steve Martin is like
the one of the best banjo players in the world's fabulous.
So it's Steve Martin. And who's his uh, who's his
scoundrel cohort in that movie? I'm forgetting now. It's definitely
not Mel Gibson. We've established that guy's kind of a
maverick just right now, Ja, it feels like a Jack
(01:59):
Lemon type figure. No, no, I'm just thinking of things
dirty rutten. We must solve this show until eight? Is
it Michael Caine? Michael Kaine? It's Michael Caine, but I
don't even recognize them. It's Michael Kaine. I was looking
at the poster and before I could read the text,
(02:21):
I was just like, who is that? Yeah? I just
I haven't just I don't remember anything about the movie
except that there's a scene where Steve Martin pretends to
have an eye patch and they they they're they're basically
confidence men, and they go around you know, seducing heiresses
and trying to con people out of their crown jewels.
(02:41):
And and I don't know if a lot of people
won't know this, but the recent uh movie starring Rebel
Wilson and Anne Hathaway, The Hustle, is essentially a retelling
of dirty, rotten scoundrels, with the the said scoundrels being
played by women. So women can be scoundrels too. I
think it's trying to, like, you give the word back
to the people, you know, because you think it's like
(03:02):
a scoundrel and we think of a dirty dog man,
you know, but women can scoundrel it with the best
of them. Yeah, let's h Let's make sure that everybody
is equally recognized in their ability to be a terrible person.
Gargo Humans. Also just a shout out to the nineteen
seventy nine film about another um someone irredeemable character, The Jerk,
(03:26):
also starring Steve Martin. It's classic. It can't go on said,
believe it or not. We're not talking about Steve Martin
for the show. We could do an episode on Steve later,
maybe we can even interview him, But today we are
talking about a man who is sometimes known as America's
first notorious scoundrel. His name Dan Sickles. What did he do?
(03:50):
What made him? You guys remember that you may be
familiar with that cartoon sitcom American Dad. There's an alien
named Roger, and there's just running joke that Roger has
this alternate persona, a guy named Ricky Spanish, and he's
and he's a total lothario. Yeah, he's a monster. He's worse.
(04:12):
He's a monster. But Dan Siggles is kind of like
a Ricky Spanish. How did he get here? What are
we talking about? And how does he help us avoid
romanticizing America of days past? It's a good question, man,
And I want to start with a reading from this
fabulous piece PBS article. I just love the way they
sum this up, because this is very true. We sometimes
(04:34):
assume that people today are naughtier than those of yesteryear,
that morals have decayed the point of rotting, that lovers
are less faithful, politicians more corrupt. But to name at
least one strong counter argument to such supposed decline, there
is Daniel Sickles, a nineteenth century congressman, friends to presidents,
civil war general, not to mention as well, a notorious philanderer,
(04:58):
a corrupt Tammany Hall politician, an embezzler, a cold blooded murderer,
and the officer who almost cost the Union victory and
perhaps the most pivotal battle of the Civil War. A
real pos this guy, and also a fabulous piece of
writing from SuDS. Sure. Yeah, that credit goes to Dennis
(05:19):
Gaffney who was the author of that piece. Uh So, yeah,
this guy is a pos. Uh. This being a family show,
I proposed that we we make it a running thing
where we try to find different definitions of p O S.
So let's say, um, what you're talking about, I'm gonna
say point of scoundrelity. So so okay. So Dan is
(05:44):
born Daniel Edgar Sickles, October, New York City. We know
of one of his first low life moves that occurred
when he was a teenager. He was accused of stealing
a hundred bucks that had in uh given to him
by a guy named Peter Cooper. Peter Cooper is a
(06:05):
philanthropist and according to The New York Times in their
wonderful article the man who got away with Everything, Peter
Cooper was like Saint Lee. He was the most beloved
dude in New York City. Uh. Sickles parents put up
with him a lot, you know, and it's just like
(06:25):
a boy's will be boys thing. And they sent him
off to home in Manhattan, the household of Lorenzo da Ponte.
And they were hoping that this that Dan would soak
up some culture, that he would maybe turn his young
life in a more productive direction. Um. But it didn't
(06:47):
work out the way they had hoped. Yes. In fact,
some very salacious rumors began to swirl that Sickle had
seduced DuPont's adopted married arnor Maria Cook Baggioli. Uh, and
to boot, had blackmailed her husband. So a cup holder
(07:09):
and a blackmailer. It gets worse, it totally gets worse.
And then not too terribly long after, he would go
on to seduce Maria's fifteen year old daughter, m hmm uh, Teresa.
And you know, I'm out to his credit now, not really,
not at all. Now, he did make an honest ish
(07:30):
woman out of her by bringing her before the Roman
Catholic Archbishop of New York, John J. Hughes Uh to
be joined and wedded. You know, acrimony, let's call it
be only because she was like super priggers right right,
like visibly third trimester territory. Uh. The New York Times
(07:53):
sums it up this way in their article, saying, these
auditionous by getting what set the path out of Sile's
life willful nearly to the point of madness. He was
nonetheless able to win over at astonishing number of men
and especially women, thanks to his good looks, dashing manna
and pension for grand gestice Wisely, he decided to become
a lawyer since it was unlikely he would ever go
(08:13):
very long without being holed. Didn't a court just the
shade on this thing. So all this stuff in his
childhood aside. He does go to college. He attends the
University of the City of New York eighteen forty six.
He is admitted to the bar. He becomes a lawyer.
He's still a blackguard, he's still kind of a heel,
(08:34):
but now he's got he's got a law degree. Uh.
And he's also active in the Democratic Party. And he's
still sleeping around like crazy right big time. He's what
he's what, he's what today we would call a himbo, Yeah,
which is the modern version of Lithario. That's exactly correct.
Then in eighty seven he decided to enter into a
(08:57):
long desired career in politics. Um, and he won a
seat on the state legislature. And he was carrying on
during this time a relationship with a New York escort
named Fanny White. Uh. There were also rumors that he
brought Fanny White to London with him on a diplomatic
(09:17):
mission while leaving his wife home in New York and pregnant. Uh.
There's some rumors about him that we know aren't true.
They're a little bit too larger than life. Uh. But
let's let's talk as politics here. Because he won two
consecutive terms in the New York State Senate like he
(09:38):
was good at this eighteen fifty six and eighteen fifty seven. Well,
I think one would argue that a serial seducer and
a like a long time politician probably share similar skill sets.
You know, what is politics if not like seducing your
constituents into believing in you. Well, there are some politicians
whould disagree, but I think there are many people who
(10:00):
would note that there is a macavellio in aspect to it. Right,
So absolutely, and I'm I'm I'm so oversimplifying the case
a little bit. But you know, if you can talk
repeatedly women into sleeping with you and convincing them that
you're like a good guy, Uh, then perhaps that skill
would also serve you well, you know, in in politics. Yes,
I think it's I think it's a valid observation. There.
(10:24):
He was set to go on being just kind of
a slimy dude in the political sphere of New York.
But he entered national politics, and he served as a
congress person in the House of Representatives from eighteen fifty
seven to eighteen sixty one. There were people who had
not heard of Dan Sickles until eighteen fifty eight, Uh,
(10:46):
when he rose from being you know, just kind of
like a well known scalawag to an infamous figure in
American politics. No earlier, we said that he was associated
with the Tammany Hall machine, um, and that's how he
got his post in US Congress. The story started when
(11:07):
he was censured for bringing a sex worker onto the
floor of the New York Senate. It was also kind
of a man of ill repute because he had married
that fifteen year old we mentioned Teresa. He had married
her when he was thirty three and she was fifteen. Sorry,
I keep throwing off my mouth a little bit. Um,
do you think he had a reputation at this point,
(11:29):
ben like like a broadly speaking or is this just
like the way history remembers him, because surely these, many
of these acts would have been considered a scandal for
an elected official, right, Well, that's that's the thing. Um.
It's not as if everybody was a paragon of perfect ideals.
But but I think his shadow was starting to catch
(11:50):
up to him. That makes sense. So, uh, he was
elected to Congress after coming to Washington and being welcomed
into their like innermost elite circles. Um. And then he
became dear friends with Philip Barton Key, the son of
(12:14):
famed Francis Scott Key of that weird song that that
seems to represent America and some Yeah, and I've never
quite understood the imagery in that one. And if I'm
not mistaken, I believe there's a verse to that song
that's more than a little bit racist that gets removed
for popular repetition. Right right, So without doing that verse,
(12:36):
I know that the star Spangled banner itself is said
to be the key was inspired by seeing a single U.
S Flag still flying over Fort McHenry at daybreak. That's right, Ben,
And in fact, originally the song was called the Defense
of Fort McHenry and h you know, sorry, we're getting
off on a little tangent here. It's just starting to
(12:57):
jog both of our memories that we actually did an
entire episode on this um. But it is a lyric
that is left out that report that that basically, uh,
it represents the deep root of slavery in American culture.
Let's just leave it at that. Oh, I mean we
could say it on air. The line that you're not
(13:18):
going to hear is no refuge could save the hire
ling enslave from the terror of flight or the gloom
of the grave and the star spangled banner and triumph
doth wave or the land of the Free and the
home of the brave talking about the hutsman of putting
slave and then land of the free not not not
(13:38):
more than four lines apart. Yeah, not to mention that
slave fixes like is basically used to fit that rhyming
scheme slave, grave, Wave, brave. He was in a hurry,
definitely in a hurry, but nonetheless he and and Sickles
became good friends and Daniel, I'm sorry his son rather
became good friends. And Daniel often asked his pal Key
(14:02):
Daniel Sickles uh to be his wife's escort to social gatherings, um,
whenever he had to work late. This is a fellow
congressman by the way, or you know, he had like
a girl on the side as well. So this was
like very much part of the culture of being like
a politician as well. It seems this whole idea. It's
almost like in the mob, you have your like your wife,
(14:22):
and then you have your guma you know, I guess,
And in politics in these days, you had your your
your wife and then you're like side girl. So Key
and Teresa became friends and then pretty quickly that turned
into romance and then uh, the soap opera begins. Because
despite the attempts to keep their affairs secret, uh, it
became common knowledge in their social circle in the elite
(14:47):
social scene of New York City, both Dan and his
wife Teresa had other affairs. They were sleeping around left
and right, you know. And I will say, uh, no judgment.
I think everybody, every single relationship is a foreign country.
So if they had some kind of open arrangement. That's
(15:08):
that's up to them. But Dan also had a reputation
for visiting brothels, which is you know, as we know
is is probably not safe from a hygienic perspective at
this time. Weirdly though, how weird is the misogynistic double
standard here, you guys. Uh did people care about Dan's
(15:29):
affairs and dalliances? No? Uh, they were more scandalized that
Teresa would dare to have an affair because he did
makes him a cuckled. Of course they were. This was
hows how it was. Men were never blamed. It was
always the women who were ashamed and had to carry
that like you know, scarlet letter situation. And here's the thing,
(15:51):
Sickles had a reputation like it was a known thing
that he liked to visit brothels around d C. But
it was only teresa affair that got people all bent
out of shape. In the nineteenth century, a wife's affair,
like you said, Ben turned her husband into the the
worst thing could turn a man into a cuckold. Even
(16:12):
though now it's used in like fetishy stuff. That's a
different story, um, and undermine in the eyes of this society.
It would have undermined his masculinity. Another horrible thing he
could do. Uh. And all while a husband's affairs were
simply just whatever, like nobody cared. It was understood that
men gonna be men. Um and they were. This was
even they were like gossip columns at the time. Uh.
(16:34):
And one particularly well known gossip columnist called key quote
the handsomest man and all Washington society. Uh and he, uh,
you know this is this is this is like basically
the takeaway from what how he was seeing the handsomest
man in all Washington society, ineligible, non bachelor but whatever.
(16:55):
Um and and they had like little signals, right Ben, Yeah,
So their d C dalliances were well known. One reporter
said that he would signal Teresa by waving his handkerchief
on the street, and then they would meet at an
abandoned house that was just like walking distance from the
actual White House. And Teresa is on record confessing, I
(17:19):
did what is usually for a wicked woman to do.
I don't think she sounded so arch when she said that. However,
this is not a sustainable thing. February fifty nine, Sickles
receives an anonymous letter and he confronts his wife, Teresa,
and he forces her to write a confession. And then
(17:41):
three days go by and he sees his former friend
Key outside of his house waving his handkerchief the signal
for the affair to, you know, resume. And he went
into a state of rage. And he was like, that
villain is out there now making side lines. So he
grabbed not one gun, not two guns, but three guns
(18:05):
and ran outside to confront this guy because he is
a hypocrite. Uh. He shot his wife's lover in full
view of the White House and he screamed, you scoundrel,
you have dishordered my house. You must die, because it
apparently wasn't okay for other people to have affairs just him.
So Sickles did with his drawn pistol, fire several times
(18:28):
at Key, and he hit him once in the leg
and once in the hand. He kind of just winged him. Uh.
Key made a mad dash for Sickles and gripped him
by the lapels and two men had a good tussle
on the ground rolling around um and and this was
all being gauwcked upon by the elite who lived in
(18:50):
this part of of Washington. This is in a very
fancy part of the city. So Sickles gets to his
feet finally after breaking away from Key, and fired a
second shot. Yeah, and you're the growing. Key also had
a weapon. I guess you could say he pulled the
only thing he could. He had on his person a
(19:11):
pair of opera glasses, and he threw those at Dan Sickles.
Can you imagine trying to menace somebody with a pair
of opera glasses. That's the most genteel thing anyone could
ever be holding. There's nothing less threatening than a pair
of opera glasses. A monocle. A monocle is half is threatening.
That's fair, that's fair. But but you're you're absolutely right.
(19:34):
This does seem like an hilarious scene. But then Sickles
fires again. Key is against the offense. He's pleading for
his life. Don't kill me, don't kill me. I'm sorry.
Sickles points a gun at the center of his old
friend's chest. He fires, Key staggers away a few feet,
(19:55):
and then he dies. Sickles looks around. At least a
dozen people have seen him do this, because he's shouting
in the street beforehand and during uh he runs away,
but then he eventually surrenders the police. A few hours later,
he's charged with murder. He's taken to jail. Yeah, isn't interesting, Like,
I mean, not too terribly long in history before this,
(20:18):
something like this would have been considered legal if it
had been a duel agreed to by both parties. Right,
But this was not that because only Sickles was armed
at least, you know, legitimately armed, whereas he you know,
was essentially helpless aside from his pathetic attempt at you know,
brandishing a pair of opera glasses. So yeah, he gets,
he gets, he gets taken away. He does indeed get
(20:42):
taken away. Uh, he's locked up. But he's also a
former congressman, so that that gives him some special privileges.
He's got some juice in the city there he is. Yeah. Uh,
So many people came by to convey their well wishes
that he was able to use the apartment of the
jail keeper to entertain his guests, who were high level
(21:04):
federal officials, members of Congress, and so on. Then President
James Buchanan did not personally visit, but he did send
Sickles a nice note. Uh. Sickles got several prominent politicians
to be his defense attorneys, including one man Edwin M. Stanton,
who would later go on to become Lincoln's Secretary of War.
(21:26):
Oh and he was allowed to keep a weapon in
jail just to have Wait, why that's that's like to
defend himself from being shanked or something, or just like
as a special privilege, he was able to have a
concealed weapon in jail. Well, we don't know whether they
were opera glasses, a monocle, or a gunn fair, one
would assume it was the very least appointed stick. Yes,
(21:48):
one would assume this sensational murder. His front page news,
it's all anyone can talk about. The New York Herald
says it is a tragic affair, and they say that
it is the prominent topic of conversation in homes, in
(22:12):
public everywhere everywhere in the city. Uh, we know that
Sickles gave interviews with the press where he's not saying
he's not guilty, he's just justifying it. He's like he
dishonored me. So boom boom boom. Yeah, this is a
time when honor, at least perceived honor ment a whole
hell of a lot more, perhaps than it means today.
(22:34):
I don't know if that's true. Maybe I'm just bummed
out about our times currently, But yeah, I mean it
certainly was. You know, you would you would literally, you know,
challenge someone to a duel for for you know, attacking
your honor and reputation was very, very important, even though
as we know, these men did terrible, terrible things behind
the scenes. But you dare not accuse them of such, right, Uh,
(22:56):
just you know, blaming on the women. It's their fault.
So yeah, this became a massive hullabaloo. Uh. The tragic
affair produced a great sensation, said the New York Herald.
In the streets, the law courts, public houses, private dwellings,
and in fact everywhere. It was the prominent topic of conversation.
Even President James Buchanan took sides in the sensational case.
(23:18):
I know where my my read is morphing, but I'm
gonna roll with it. He sent a letter of support
to the imprisoned Congressman. Sickles told one paper, he has
this autoed me, and we could not live together on
the same planet. Harper's Weekly judged the outcome they called
the trial. They said, this is how it's gonna go,
they said, the public of the United States will justify
(23:39):
him in killing the man who dishonored his bed. WHOA,
I'm sorry dishonored his bed. Yeah. They weren't even at
that house. They were at a different making a case
on a technicality and joke. Uh. Even though Sickles did
admit to firing the shots that killed Key. Uh, many
folks were kind of on his side, Yeah, because they
(24:02):
felt like his masculinity or his manhood were under attack.
And also again he had a lot of juice. He
hired no less than eight different attorneys to represent him
during the trial. One of them, John Graham, spent two
entire days in court. On his opening statement defending Uh
(24:23):
Sickles the scoundrel. Uh, he quoted a fellow to kind
of justify sickles action, saying that adultery was evil and
this is really interesting. He said that discovering the affair
had rendered Daniel Sickles temporarily insane. This was a new concept.
(24:46):
In course, it's a it's a concept that to this
day gets kind of the eye roll. Doesn't have been
Like temporary insanity is almost something relegated to like the
realms of satire and comedy, you know, I mean, I
don't know, maybe I'm wrong there, but certainly insanity is
a thing that that. But but temporary insanity really feels like,
(25:09):
you know, almost the equivalent of in the heat of
the moment or a crime of passion. Yeah, yeah, it's
it's it's incredibly rare for people to successfully plead insanity,
you know. But they're relying on the jury sympathy rather
than the letter of the law. So Graham says, you know,
(25:30):
it may be tragical two and that is the word
these So maybe tragical to shed human blood. But I'll
always maintain there is no tragedy about slaying the adulter her.
And then they went on to attack the character of Teresa.
You know, they went on a smear campaign against her
in court, calling her a sex worker, calling her a murderer, uh,
(25:54):
saying that she longed for her husband's death. Uh, and
she didn't care how it happened, whether he died by
poison or was stabbed or was shot. They called her,
they called her horrid filth like they weren't really pulling punches.
They were trying to make her look like a terrible person. No,
and God, this guy is a real piece of work.
(26:16):
He Sickles himself tried to cast himself as the quote
avenger of the invaded household, meaning like the scorned man,
the cuckolded man. His wife m was portrayed as complete,
completely immoral harpy, and the key deserved to die for
(26:39):
what he had done. The judge is not buying this,
by the way, thank god is. He speaks the jury
on April. Then he says, look in regards the temporary insanity,
Dan Sickles learned of this affair, and then there was
a gap in time before he killed Philip Keys. He
(27:01):
spent three days plotting this attack after receiving that note.
So just remember that that doesn't seem very temporarily insane
to me. The judges implying the jury deliberates for about
an hour and they say Dan Sickles is not guilty
by reason of temporary insanity. It's just like a legal
(27:24):
drama on television. The packed courtroom burst into applause. More
than a thousand people leads Sickles through the streets in
an improvised victory parade. That's not how courts are supposed
to work. Yeah, you know, Ben. I had to do
a little digging just to kind of see how often
(27:44):
the temporary insanity arguments you know, actually flies, and it
is not very often. Um, like there's one, Um this
is are a few modern examples, but you know, Sickles
is definitely on the list. Um John Hinckley Jr. Who
took a shot at President and Reagan um and also
injured some police in secret service. Uh he he got
(28:05):
off on a a temporary insanity plea. Also remember Lorraina Bobbitt, Yes,
who d man She also robbed her husband of his manhood,
if you'll recall, we don't have to get too into
the details. And then she threw his manhood into a bush.
She got off on a temporary insanity police too. I
(28:26):
had no idea. And Bobbitt survived, of course he of course, yeah,
but you know his manhood did not or did they
find it and put it back on? I believe. So yeah,
oh that's nice. Um, it's maybe a different episode, but uh,
but you're right. Yeah. As I said earlier, the temporary
insanity plea is very difficult to get through court h
(28:50):
but it works for sickles. This is the first successful
temporary insanity plea, and various papers of note are not
super cool with it. The Tribune and says this is
a most mistaken and most mischievous verdict. They say it's
carrying the country backwards. Here's the thing, though, the jury,
(29:11):
even though the jury said they was not guilty by
reason of temporary insanity, they probably didn't buy that defense.
What they were really thinking of is the more Victorian
morality that Key had it coming, and that even if
you are a dude who is sleeping around, if someone
sleeps with your wife, you are right to attack them
(29:36):
to take revenge or to kill them, unless that's just
like what you're into, man, you know, yeah, it takes
all types, I guess. And so after the trial get this,
Sickles stays married to Teresa, and he says, I shall
strive to prove to all that an airing wife and
mother may be forgiven and redeemed. I'll say it, what
(29:59):
a day, God, what absolute hypocrite. And just oh, just
the the gas lighting of it all, you know, just
the public shaming of it all, the absolute lack of
self awareness of it all. Uh, it just kind of
makes it makes your stomach turn. But you know what
Sickles Cowardice and uh and uh and Despicable Behavior has
(30:22):
many chapters, to the point where we have decided, uh
to make this a two parter um. And you know,
the next chapter of Sickles Despicable Existence really is a
completely different world. So we've gotten through the adultery, We've
gotten through the trial of the century. So we're gonna
leave it here, uh and wrap and then and then
rejoin the story already in progress next time. But in
(30:45):
the meantime, UH, gird yourselves, ridiculous historians. This guy continues
on his irascible journeys. I we want to thank everybody
for tuning in. Of course, big big thanks to Gabe
Luzier are search assistant, big big thanks to uh super
producer Casey Pegram Casey. I'm sad that this is just
(31:06):
an audio show for now because the lighting on you
looks really good. Thanks Ben. It's uh. I'm here with
some natural light by the window. The sun is going down,
so it's getting dramatic over here. Is it the Magic Hour? Casey?
Is it the Magic Hour? Terence Malick? That's right, And
of course also thanks to Christopher Hasiotis. Thanks to Alex Williams,
(31:28):
who composed that slapping Bob you here at the beginning
and end of the show. Who else? Oh, yes, that's
slapping Bob. Indeed huge thanks to Jonathan Strickland, a k a.
The Quister, who I think we're neck and neck with
now in terms of the rankings of our our rivalry
are kind of Nemesis scenario. I believe you're correct. I
(31:48):
believe you're correct. So everything uh hinges on his next appearance?
Did you say Gabe already? Yes? Good? Well, let's say
it again. Gabe Lousier, the man, the myth, the legend.
We keep talking about it. We really need to hit
him up and get him back on for a guest
spot because he is a delight. That last episode we
did with him about the guy that drew Psychedelic Cats
(32:09):
is honestly one of my favorites in the history of
the show. I agree to disagree. No, I'm gidding. It's
a good one. Uh so it's a good one. Check
it out. You haven't heard it? Um? Yeah, I'm a
huge fan of Gabe. Gabe, if you're listening, uh, come
back soon. We also want to hear your stories about
your favorite historical scoundrels. You can tell us about it
(32:29):
on the Internet, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Join Ridiculous Historians, where
we have some dank historical memes and some great conversations.
You can also find us on the internet, not just
as a show, but as individuals. You may find me
on Instagram where I am at how Now Noel Brown,
and you can find me on Twitter where I'm at
(32:50):
Ben bullin hs W. You can also message me directly
on Instagram where I am at Ben Bulling. You know what,
This makes me pretty happy because we are in comparison,
not that bad, not as bad as Dan, oh god,
not by a long shot. We'll see you next Tomeflix.
(33:15):
For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Ye,
(00:27):
welcome to the show Ridiculous Historians. As always, thank you
so much for tuning in. Uh this is this is
gonna be a fun one. Um. No, I would say
that you and I are at times rambunctious, but I
wouldn't say I wouldn't say we're scally wags or scoundrels.
What do you think, you know? I've often fancied myself
(00:49):
been a bit of a rapscallion from time to time,
and then only because I'm incorrigible, you just can't take
me anywhere. But now I don't think I may have
in past life dipped my toe into the shallow end
of the scoundrel pool, but I've certainly reformed long since.
So yeah, I think we can squarely say neither of us,
including super producer Casey Pegram, our scoundrels. I've always you know,
(01:14):
before the word became politically charged, I liked to think
of myself as a maverick based on that Mel Gibson film.
It was it was like a card shark, right, Yes,
it was a maverick. And when we were getting ready
for this episode, I know out of the three of us.
I can't be the only one who thought of the
film Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. Do you remember that one? I do.
(01:36):
That's the one about the dirty rotten Scoundrels. That's right,
that's a very student summary. Also, Steve Martin is like
the one of the best banjo players in the world's fabulous.
So it's Steve Martin. And who's his uh, who's his
scoundrel cohort in that movie? I'm forgetting now. It's definitely
not Mel Gibson. We've established that guy's kind of a
maverick just right now, Ja, it feels like a Jack
(01:59):
Lemon type figure. No, no, I'm just thinking of things
dirty rutten. We must solve this show until eight? Is
it Michael Caine? Michael Kaine? It's Michael Caine, but I
don't even recognize them. It's Michael Kaine. I was looking
at the poster and before I could read the text,
(02:21):
I was just like, who is that? Yeah? I just
I haven't just I don't remember anything about the movie
except that there's a scene where Steve Martin pretends to
have an eye patch and they they they're they're basically
confidence men, and they go around you know, seducing heiresses
and trying to con people out of their crown jewels.
(02:41):
And and I don't know if a lot of people
won't know this, but the recent uh movie starring Rebel
Wilson and Anne Hathaway, The Hustle, is essentially a retelling
of dirty, rotten scoundrels, with the the said scoundrels being
played by women. So women can be scoundrels too. I
think it's trying to, like, you give the word back
to the people, you know, because you think it's like
(03:02):
a scoundrel and we think of a dirty dog man,
you know, but women can scoundrel it with the best
of them. Yeah, let's h Let's make sure that everybody
is equally recognized in their ability to be a terrible person.
Gargo Humans. Also just a shout out to the nineteen
seventy nine film about another um someone irredeemable character, The Jerk,
(03:26):
also starring Steve Martin. It's classic. It can't go on said,
believe it or not. We're not talking about Steve Martin
for the show. We could do an episode on Steve later,
maybe we can even interview him, But today we are
talking about a man who is sometimes known as America's
first notorious scoundrel. His name Dan Sickles. What did he do?
(03:50):
What made him? You guys remember that you may be
familiar with that cartoon sitcom American Dad. There's an alien
named Roger, and there's just running joke that Roger has
this alternate persona, a guy named Ricky Spanish, and he's
and he's a total lothario. Yeah, he's a monster. He's worse.
(04:12):
He's a monster. But Dan Siggles is kind of like
a Ricky Spanish. How did he get here? What are
we talking about? And how does he help us avoid
romanticizing America of days past? It's a good question, man,
And I want to start with a reading from this
fabulous piece PBS article. I just love the way they
sum this up, because this is very true. We sometimes
(04:34):
assume that people today are naughtier than those of yesteryear,
that morals have decayed the point of rotting, that lovers
are less faithful, politicians more corrupt. But to name at
least one strong counter argument to such supposed decline, there
is Daniel Sickles, a nineteenth century congressman, friends to presidents,
civil war general, not to mention as well, a notorious philanderer,
(04:58):
a corrupt Tammany Hall politician, an embezzler, a cold blooded murderer,
and the officer who almost cost the Union victory and
perhaps the most pivotal battle of the Civil War. A
real pos this guy, and also a fabulous piece of
writing from SuDS. Sure. Yeah, that credit goes to Dennis
(05:19):
Gaffney who was the author of that piece. Uh So, yeah,
this guy is a pos. Uh. This being a family show,
I proposed that we we make it a running thing
where we try to find different definitions of p O S.
So let's say, um, what you're talking about, I'm gonna
say point of scoundrelity. So so okay. So Dan is
(05:44):
born Daniel Edgar Sickles, October, New York City. We know
of one of his first low life moves that occurred
when he was a teenager. He was accused of stealing
a hundred bucks that had in uh given to him
by a guy named Peter Cooper. Peter Cooper is a
(06:05):
philanthropist and according to The New York Times in their
wonderful article the man who got away with Everything, Peter
Cooper was like Saint Lee. He was the most beloved
dude in New York City. Uh. Sickles parents put up
with him a lot, you know, and it's just like
(06:25):
a boy's will be boys thing. And they sent him
off to home in Manhattan, the household of Lorenzo da Ponte.
And they were hoping that this that Dan would soak
up some culture, that he would maybe turn his young
life in a more productive direction. Um. But it didn't
(06:47):
work out the way they had hoped. Yes. In fact,
some very salacious rumors began to swirl that Sickle had
seduced DuPont's adopted married arnor Maria Cook Baggioli. Uh, and
to boot, had blackmailed her husband. So a cup holder
(07:09):
and a blackmailer. It gets worse, it totally gets worse.
And then not too terribly long after, he would go
on to seduce Maria's fifteen year old daughter, m hmm uh, Teresa.
And you know, I'm out to his credit now, not really,
not at all. Now, he did make an honest ish
(07:30):
woman out of her by bringing her before the Roman
Catholic Archbishop of New York, John J. Hughes Uh to
be joined and wedded. You know, acrimony, let's call it
be only because she was like super priggers right right,
like visibly third trimester territory. Uh. The New York Times
(07:53):
sums it up this way in their article, saying, these
auditionous by getting what set the path out of Sile's
life willful nearly to the point of madness. He was
nonetheless able to win over at astonishing number of men
and especially women, thanks to his good looks, dashing manna
and pension for grand gestice Wisely, he decided to become
a lawyer since it was unlikely he would ever go
(08:13):
very long without being holed. Didn't a court just the
shade on this thing. So all this stuff in his
childhood aside. He does go to college. He attends the
University of the City of New York eighteen forty six.
He is admitted to the bar. He becomes a lawyer.
He's still a blackguard, he's still kind of a heel,
(08:34):
but now he's got he's got a law degree. Uh.
And he's also active in the Democratic Party. And he's
still sleeping around like crazy right big time. He's what
he's what, he's what today we would call a himbo, Yeah,
which is the modern version of Lithario. That's exactly correct.
Then in eighty seven he decided to enter into a
(08:57):
long desired career in politics. Um, and he won a
seat on the state legislature. And he was carrying on
during this time a relationship with a New York escort
named Fanny White. Uh. There were also rumors that he
brought Fanny White to London with him on a diplomatic
(09:17):
mission while leaving his wife home in New York and pregnant. Uh.
There's some rumors about him that we know aren't true.
They're a little bit too larger than life. Uh. But
let's let's talk as politics here. Because he won two
consecutive terms in the New York State Senate like he
(09:38):
was good at this eighteen fifty six and eighteen fifty seven. Well,
I think one would argue that a serial seducer and
a like a long time politician probably share similar skill sets.
You know, what is politics if not like seducing your
constituents into believing in you. Well, there are some politicians
whould disagree, but I think there are many people who
(10:00):
would note that there is a macavellio in aspect to it. Right,
So absolutely, and I'm I'm I'm so oversimplifying the case
a little bit. But you know, if you can talk
repeatedly women into sleeping with you and convincing them that
you're like a good guy, Uh, then perhaps that skill
would also serve you well, you know, in in politics. Yes,
I think it's I think it's a valid observation. There.
(10:24):
He was set to go on being just kind of
a slimy dude in the political sphere of New York.
But he entered national politics, and he served as a
congress person in the House of Representatives from eighteen fifty
seven to eighteen sixty one. There were people who had
not heard of Dan Sickles until eighteen fifty eight, Uh,
(10:46):
when he rose from being you know, just kind of
like a well known scalawag to an infamous figure in
American politics. No earlier, we said that he was associated
with the Tammany Hall machine, um, and that's how he
got his post in US Congress. The story started when
(11:07):
he was censured for bringing a sex worker onto the
floor of the New York Senate. It was also kind
of a man of ill repute because he had married
that fifteen year old we mentioned Teresa. He had married
her when he was thirty three and she was fifteen. Sorry,
I keep throwing off my mouth a little bit. Um,
do you think he had a reputation at this point,
(11:29):
ben like like a broadly speaking or is this just
like the way history remembers him, because surely these, many
of these acts would have been considered a scandal for
an elected official, right, Well, that's that's the thing. Um.
It's not as if everybody was a paragon of perfect ideals.
But but I think his shadow was starting to catch
(11:50):
up to him. That makes sense. So, uh, he was
elected to Congress after coming to Washington and being welcomed
into their like innermost elite circles. Um. And then he
became dear friends with Philip Barton Key, the son of
(12:14):
famed Francis Scott Key of that weird song that that
seems to represent America and some Yeah, and I've never
quite understood the imagery in that one. And if I'm
not mistaken, I believe there's a verse to that song
that's more than a little bit racist that gets removed
for popular repetition. Right right, So without doing that verse,
(12:36):
I know that the star Spangled banner itself is said
to be the key was inspired by seeing a single U.
S Flag still flying over Fort McHenry at daybreak. That's right, Ben,
And in fact, originally the song was called the Defense
of Fort McHenry and h you know, sorry, we're getting
off on a little tangent here. It's just starting to
(12:57):
jog both of our memories that we actually did an
entire episode on this um. But it is a lyric
that is left out that report that that basically, uh,
it represents the deep root of slavery in American culture.
Let's just leave it at that. Oh, I mean we
could say it on air. The line that you're not
(13:18):
going to hear is no refuge could save the hire
ling enslave from the terror of flight or the gloom
of the grave and the star spangled banner and triumph
doth wave or the land of the Free and the
home of the brave talking about the hutsman of putting
slave and then land of the free not not not
(13:38):
more than four lines apart. Yeah, not to mention that
slave fixes like is basically used to fit that rhyming
scheme slave, grave, Wave, brave. He was in a hurry,
definitely in a hurry, but nonetheless he and and Sickles
became good friends and Daniel, I'm sorry his son rather
became good friends. And Daniel often asked his pal Key
(14:02):
Daniel Sickles uh to be his wife's escort to social gatherings, um,
whenever he had to work late. This is a fellow
congressman by the way, or you know, he had like
a girl on the side as well. So this was
like very much part of the culture of being like
a politician as well. It seems this whole idea. It's
almost like in the mob, you have your like your wife,
(14:22):
and then you have your guma you know, I guess,
And in politics in these days, you had your your
your wife and then you're like side girl. So Key
and Teresa became friends and then pretty quickly that turned
into romance and then uh, the soap opera begins. Because
despite the attempts to keep their affairs secret, uh, it
became common knowledge in their social circle in the elite
(14:47):
social scene of New York City, both Dan and his
wife Teresa had other affairs. They were sleeping around left
and right, you know. And I will say, uh, no judgment.
I think everybody, every single relationship is a foreign country.
So if they had some kind of open arrangement. That's
(15:08):
that's up to them. But Dan also had a reputation
for visiting brothels, which is you know, as we know
is is probably not safe from a hygienic perspective at
this time. Weirdly though, how weird is the misogynistic double
standard here, you guys. Uh did people care about Dan's
(15:29):
affairs and dalliances? No? Uh, they were more scandalized that
Teresa would dare to have an affair because he did
makes him a cuckled. Of course they were. This was
hows how it was. Men were never blamed. It was
always the women who were ashamed and had to carry
that like you know, scarlet letter situation. And here's the thing,
(15:51):
Sickles had a reputation like it was a known thing
that he liked to visit brothels around d C. But
it was only teresa affair that got people all bent
out of shape. In the nineteenth century, a wife's affair,
like you said, Ben turned her husband into the the
worst thing could turn a man into a cuckold. Even
(16:12):
though now it's used in like fetishy stuff. That's a
different story, um, and undermine in the eyes of this society.
It would have undermined his masculinity. Another horrible thing he
could do. Uh. And all while a husband's affairs were
simply just whatever, like nobody cared. It was understood that
men gonna be men. Um and they were. This was
even they were like gossip columns at the time. Uh.
(16:34):
And one particularly well known gossip columnist called key quote
the handsomest man and all Washington society. Uh and he, uh,
you know this is this is this is like basically
the takeaway from what how he was seeing the handsomest
man in all Washington society, ineligible, non bachelor but whatever.
(16:55):
Um and and they had like little signals, right Ben, Yeah,
So their d C dalliances were well known. One reporter
said that he would signal Teresa by waving his handkerchief
on the street, and then they would meet at an
abandoned house that was just like walking distance from the
actual White House. And Teresa is on record confessing, I
(17:19):
did what is usually for a wicked woman to do.
I don't think she sounded so arch when she said that. However,
this is not a sustainable thing. February fifty nine, Sickles
receives an anonymous letter and he confronts his wife, Teresa,
and he forces her to write a confession. And then
(17:41):
three days go by and he sees his former friend
Key outside of his house waving his handkerchief the signal
for the affair to, you know, resume. And he went
into a state of rage. And he was like, that
villain is out there now making side lines. So he
grabbed not one gun, not two guns, but three guns
(18:05):
and ran outside to confront this guy because he is
a hypocrite. Uh. He shot his wife's lover in full
view of the White House and he screamed, you scoundrel,
you have dishordered my house. You must die, because it
apparently wasn't okay for other people to have affairs just him.
So Sickles did with his drawn pistol, fire several times
(18:28):
at Key, and he hit him once in the leg
and once in the hand. He kind of just winged him. Uh.
Key made a mad dash for Sickles and gripped him
by the lapels and two men had a good tussle
on the ground rolling around um and and this was
all being gauwcked upon by the elite who lived in
(18:50):
this part of of Washington. This is in a very
fancy part of the city. So Sickles gets to his
feet finally after breaking away from Key, and fired a
second shot. Yeah, and you're the growing. Key also had
a weapon. I guess you could say he pulled the
only thing he could. He had on his person a
(19:11):
pair of opera glasses, and he threw those at Dan Sickles.
Can you imagine trying to menace somebody with a pair
of opera glasses. That's the most genteel thing anyone could
ever be holding. There's nothing less threatening than a pair
of opera glasses. A monocle. A monocle is half is threatening.
That's fair, that's fair. But but you're you're absolutely right.
(19:34):
This does seem like an hilarious scene. But then Sickles
fires again. Key is against the offense. He's pleading for
his life. Don't kill me, don't kill me. I'm sorry.
Sickles points a gun at the center of his old
friend's chest. He fires, Key staggers away a few feet,
(19:55):
and then he dies. Sickles looks around. At least a
dozen people have seen him do this, because he's shouting
in the street beforehand and during uh he runs away,
but then he eventually surrenders the police. A few hours later,
he's charged with murder. He's taken to jail. Yeah, isn't interesting, Like,
I mean, not too terribly long in history before this,
(20:18):
something like this would have been considered legal if it
had been a duel agreed to by both parties. Right,
But this was not that because only Sickles was armed
at least, you know, legitimately armed, whereas he you know,
was essentially helpless aside from his pathetic attempt at you know,
brandishing a pair of opera glasses. So yeah, he gets,
he gets, he gets taken away. He does indeed get
(20:42):
taken away. Uh, he's locked up. But he's also a
former congressman, so that that gives him some special privileges.
He's got some juice in the city there he is. Yeah. Uh,
So many people came by to convey their well wishes
that he was able to use the apartment of the
jail keeper to entertain his guests, who were high level
(21:04):
federal officials, members of Congress, and so on. Then President
James Buchanan did not personally visit, but he did send
Sickles a nice note. Uh. Sickles got several prominent politicians
to be his defense attorneys, including one man Edwin M. Stanton,
who would later go on to become Lincoln's Secretary of War.
(21:26):
Oh and he was allowed to keep a weapon in
jail just to have Wait, why that's that's like to
defend himself from being shanked or something, or just like
as a special privilege, he was able to have a
concealed weapon in jail. Well, we don't know whether they
were opera glasses, a monocle, or a gunn fair, one
would assume it was the very least appointed stick. Yes,
(21:48):
one would assume this sensational murder. His front page news,
it's all anyone can talk about. The New York Herald
says it is a tragic affair, and they say that
it is the prominent topic of conversation in homes, in
(22:12):
public everywhere everywhere in the city. Uh, we know that
Sickles gave interviews with the press where he's not saying
he's not guilty, he's just justifying it. He's like he
dishonored me. So boom boom boom. Yeah, this is a
time when honor, at least perceived honor ment a whole
hell of a lot more, perhaps than it means today.
(22:34):
I don't know if that's true. Maybe I'm just bummed
out about our times currently, But yeah, I mean it
certainly was. You know, you would you would literally, you know,
challenge someone to a duel for for you know, attacking
your honor and reputation was very, very important, even though
as we know, these men did terrible, terrible things behind
the scenes. But you dare not accuse them of such, right, Uh,
(22:56):
just you know, blaming on the women. It's their fault.
So yeah, this became a massive hullabaloo. Uh. The tragic
affair produced a great sensation, said the New York Herald.
In the streets, the law courts, public houses, private dwellings,
and in fact everywhere. It was the prominent topic of conversation.
Even President James Buchanan took sides in the sensational case.
(23:18):
I know where my my read is morphing, but I'm
gonna roll with it. He sent a letter of support
to the imprisoned Congressman. Sickles told one paper, he has
this autoed me, and we could not live together on
the same planet. Harper's Weekly judged the outcome they called
the trial. They said, this is how it's gonna go,
they said, the public of the United States will justify
(23:39):
him in killing the man who dishonored his bed. WHOA,
I'm sorry dishonored his bed. Yeah. They weren't even at
that house. They were at a different making a case
on a technicality and joke. Uh. Even though Sickles did
admit to firing the shots that killed Key. Uh, many
folks were kind of on his side, Yeah, because they
(24:02):
felt like his masculinity or his manhood were under attack.
And also again he had a lot of juice. He
hired no less than eight different attorneys to represent him
during the trial. One of them, John Graham, spent two
entire days in court. On his opening statement defending Uh
(24:23):
Sickles the scoundrel. Uh, he quoted a fellow to kind
of justify sickles action, saying that adultery was evil and
this is really interesting. He said that discovering the affair
had rendered Daniel Sickles temporarily insane. This was a new concept.
(24:46):
In course, it's a it's a concept that to this
day gets kind of the eye roll. Doesn't have been
Like temporary insanity is almost something relegated to like the
realms of satire and comedy, you know, I mean, I
don't know, maybe I'm wrong there, but certainly insanity is
a thing that that. But but temporary insanity really feels like,
(25:09):
you know, almost the equivalent of in the heat of
the moment or a crime of passion. Yeah, yeah, it's
it's it's incredibly rare for people to successfully plead insanity,
you know. But they're relying on the jury sympathy rather
than the letter of the law. So Graham says, you know,
(25:30):
it may be tragical two and that is the word
these So maybe tragical to shed human blood. But I'll
always maintain there is no tragedy about slaying the adulter her.
And then they went on to attack the character of Teresa.
You know, they went on a smear campaign against her
in court, calling her a sex worker, calling her a murderer, uh,
(25:54):
saying that she longed for her husband's death. Uh, and
she didn't care how it happened, whether he died by
poison or was stabbed or was shot. They called her,
they called her horrid filth like they weren't really pulling punches.
They were trying to make her look like a terrible person. No,
and God, this guy is a real piece of work.
(26:16):
He Sickles himself tried to cast himself as the quote
avenger of the invaded household, meaning like the scorned man,
the cuckolded man. His wife m was portrayed as complete,
completely immoral harpy, and the key deserved to die for
(26:39):
what he had done. The judge is not buying this,
by the way, thank god is. He speaks the jury
on April. Then he says, look in regards the temporary insanity,
Dan Sickles learned of this affair, and then there was
a gap in time before he killed Philip Keys. He
(27:01):
spent three days plotting this attack after receiving that note.
So just remember that that doesn't seem very temporarily insane
to me. The judges implying the jury deliberates for about
an hour and they say Dan Sickles is not guilty
by reason of temporary insanity. It's just like a legal
(27:24):
drama on television. The packed courtroom burst into applause. More
than a thousand people leads Sickles through the streets in
an improvised victory parade. That's not how courts are supposed
to work. Yeah, you know, Ben. I had to do
a little digging just to kind of see how often
(27:44):
the temporary insanity arguments you know, actually flies, and it
is not very often. Um, like there's one, Um this
is are a few modern examples, but you know, Sickles
is definitely on the list. Um John Hinckley Jr. Who
took a shot at President and Reagan um and also
injured some police in secret service. Uh he he got
(28:05):
off on a a temporary insanity plea. Also remember Lorraina Bobbitt, Yes,
who d man She also robbed her husband of his manhood,
if you'll recall, we don't have to get too into
the details. And then she threw his manhood into a bush.
She got off on a temporary insanity police too. I
(28:26):
had no idea. And Bobbitt survived, of course he of course, yeah,
but you know his manhood did not or did they
find it and put it back on? I believe. So yeah,
oh that's nice. Um, it's maybe a different episode, but uh,
but you're right. Yeah. As I said earlier, the temporary
insanity plea is very difficult to get through court h
(28:50):
but it works for sickles. This is the first successful
temporary insanity plea, and various papers of note are not
super cool with it. The Tribune and says this is
a most mistaken and most mischievous verdict. They say it's
carrying the country backwards. Here's the thing, though, the jury,
(29:11):
even though the jury said they was not guilty by
reason of temporary insanity, they probably didn't buy that defense.
What they were really thinking of is the more Victorian
morality that Key had it coming, and that even if
you are a dude who is sleeping around, if someone
sleeps with your wife, you are right to attack them
(29:36):
to take revenge or to kill them, unless that's just
like what you're into, man, you know, yeah, it takes
all types, I guess. And so after the trial get this,
Sickles stays married to Teresa, and he says, I shall
strive to prove to all that an airing wife and
mother may be forgiven and redeemed. I'll say it, what
(29:59):
a day, God, what absolute hypocrite. And just oh, just
the the gas lighting of it all, you know, just
the public shaming of it all, the absolute lack of
self awareness of it all. Uh, it just kind of
makes it makes your stomach turn. But you know what
Sickles Cowardice and uh and uh and Despicable Behavior has
(30:22):
many chapters, to the point where we have decided, uh
to make this a two parter um. And you know,
the next chapter of Sickles Despicable Existence really is a
completely different world. So we've gotten through the adultery, We've
gotten through the trial of the century. So we're gonna
leave it here, uh and wrap and then and then
rejoin the story already in progress next time. But in
(30:45):
the meantime, UH, gird yourselves, ridiculous historians. This guy continues
on his irascible journeys. I we want to thank everybody
for tuning in. Of course, big big thanks to Gabe
Luzier are search assistant, big big thanks to uh super
producer Casey Pegram Casey. I'm sad that this is just
(31:06):
an audio show for now because the lighting on you
looks really good. Thanks Ben. It's uh. I'm here with
some natural light by the window. The sun is going down,
so it's getting dramatic over here. Is it the Magic Hour? Casey?
Is it the Magic Hour? Terence Malick? That's right, And
of course also thanks to Christopher Hasiotis. Thanks to Alex Williams,
(31:28):
who composed that slapping Bob you here at the beginning
and end of the show. Who else? Oh, yes, that's
slapping Bob. Indeed huge thanks to Jonathan Strickland, a k a.
The Quister, who I think we're neck and neck with
now in terms of the rankings of our our rivalry
are kind of Nemesis scenario. I believe you're correct. I
(31:48):
believe you're correct. So everything uh hinges on his next appearance?
Did you say Gabe already? Yes? Good? Well, let's say
it again. Gabe Lousier, the man, the myth, the legend.
We keep talking about it. We really need to hit
him up and get him back on for a guest
spot because he is a delight. That last episode we
did with him about the guy that drew Psychedelic Cats
(32:09):
is honestly one of my favorites in the history of
the show. I agree to disagree. No, I'm gidding. It's
a good one. Uh so it's a good one. Check
it out. You haven't heard it? Um? Yeah, I'm a
huge fan of Gabe. Gabe, if you're listening, uh, come
back soon. We also want to hear your stories about
your favorite historical scoundrels. You can tell us about it
(32:29):
on the Internet, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Join Ridiculous Historians, where
we have some dank historical memes and some great conversations.
You can also find us on the internet, not just
as a show, but as individuals. You may find me
on Instagram where I am at how Now Noel Brown,
and you can find me on Twitter where I'm at
(32:50):
Ben bullin hs W. You can also message me directly
on Instagram where I am at Ben Bulling. You know what,
This makes me pretty happy because we are in comparison,
not that bad, not as bad as Dan, oh god,
not by a long shot. We'll see you next Tomeflix.
(33:15):
For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I
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Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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