November 18, 2025 • 40 mins
Longtime listeners are well-aware that the history of the 'Wild West' is more than a bit... embellished. Yet a grain of truth exists at the heart of almost every legend, and the story of Doc Holliday is no different. In today's episode, Ben, Noel and Max learn more about Tombstone's breakout star -- and how, if things were just a little different, he may have lived a happy, peaceful life as a dentist.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Let's give a shout out
to our super producer, Max Tombstone Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
What you can always call me your Huggleberry. You're always
our huckleberry. Max. Do you like a tombstone pizza? What's
your favorite oven pizza? Note three years ago, back before
the condition. I would love a tombstone pizza. Something about it,
like pizza and a Matza cracker. It's something, you know,
it's nothing like it. I wouldn't say it's good, but
(00:58):
it's something. It's nostalgic.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Right, Thank you guys for the nostalgic MOTSA shout out.
Uh that's Noel Brown. I'm Ben Bowlin, Oh my gosh,
and we're here to talk about one of our favorite
legends in the American zeitgeist. You may have heard our
pal Max say I'm your huckleberry, and I think Noel,
(01:23):
we make it official. So you're the bag man eternal
and uh, Max, how about you be the huckleberry.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
What even is the huckleberry in this? In this context?
Is that is he referring to like the the berry? Hi?
This is this a thing people said.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I originally thought it was a reference to Mark Twain's
Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
You're totally right. I'm your sidekick, I'm your Huckleberry Finn.
I got your back. That's what he's saying. That's exactly
what he's saying. Man. Probably, Man, maybe I put that
together at one point, but I surely though apparently our
buddy Doc Holliday was a bit of a weedy little
fellow who may have done some myth making of his
own and may not have ever actually said.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
That, who was a bit tubercular.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
He was a bit tubercular.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
This is the episode where we dive into the real
story of the legendary Doc Holiday, most famous in the
American zeitgeist as a character portrayed and embellished by Val
Kilmer in the film Tombstone.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Right in the film Tombstone where the phrase I'm your
huckleberry got popularized, it's a fun movie. Well, why Itt Arp? Yeah,
who plays him, isn't it Kurt Russell? Kurt Russell, that's
right of the thing fame. I enjoy that movie a
lot of It's probably as our most as we've talked
(03:00):
about on this very podcast accounts of the wild West
a bit embellished, bit overblown. Oh yes, yeah, a lot
of myth making that went into those stories, oftentimes from
the individuals themselves.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Oh absolutely, As we established earlier, and I love that point. Now,
the wild West is a period of time that was
actually fairly brief.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
We have an episode specifically called like how the wild
West was actually relatively tame?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
We do, we very much do. And when we dive
into the character the actual fact, shout out Lord Vogelbaum, person,
Doc Holiday. What we will see is a Georgia boy.
So if we go to Alvin K. Benson over at Ebscow,
(03:53):
we see that John Henry Holiday with two els was
born like us in August because he's extra Halidday, not Holiday.
He was born on August fourteenth, eighteen fifty one, right
(04:16):
down here in Griffin, Georgia, just.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Down the way. We know folks that stay in Griffin.
John Henry Halliday indeed second child of Alice Jane and
Henry Burrows Holiday. John's dad was a pharmacist who made
his fortune in planting and also lawyering. He was a
planter and a lawyer, bit of a multi pyphonate, yes.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Patrician agrarian. Yeah. Unfortunately, the guy who will later be
nicknamed Doc lost his mother fairly early in life. She
died of tuberculosis on September sixteenth, eighteen sixty.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Bit of a mythical origin story. If you ask me,
it's almost like he never got over it.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Oh my gosh, the levels to what you just said.
In eighteen seventy three, our buddy John is diagnosed with
tuberculosis himself just several years after his mother passes away.
So he looks to the west. Now here the climate
right right, yeah, here in the in this period of
(05:30):
time in the US, one of the things doctors would
advise you to do with a chronic with a chronic
condition affecting your lungs was to just go to a
different environment. Find different yeah, convalesce, yeah, find a drier climate.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
And so what drier climate then Dallas, Texas. You can
also if you go to Dallas, Texas in the late
eighteen hundreds, you can also gamble your.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Keystar off right.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
This is like the types of early gambling halls that
we may have seen depicted in Deadwood. For example, the
game of Fayro, which I to this day don't fully
understand how it works. Is it sort of a poker
esque game? Let's see what the Internet has to say
about that.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I'm not a card doctor, nor am I.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
It does seem to involve poker hands, So yeah, just
I think it's a bit of a rudimentary early version
of poker.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Now, he started becoming an inveterate gambler or a nomadic gambler,
or a sort of hedge night of the Cards after
he left Dallas, Texas in eighteen seventy five. So he
spent about two years in Dallas before he got involved
(06:53):
in Lexas. Yeah, Hubbloos, he got involved in a a
firearm dispute put diplomatically, and as he said, Noel, from
about seventy five to seventy nine, three years he was
just going around the United States frontier and he was
(07:20):
not played pharaoh. He was dealing it. He was acting
as a dealer in Denver, in Las Vegas, in New Mexico,
in Cheyenne, and Dodge City, Kansas, which has always been
a really weird name to me. A certain city, oh yeah,
and a certain point. He had to get right out of
Dodge he did, He did. He was Denver, right, and
(07:46):
so dodged a bullet. There dodged a bullet. He dodged,
balled a lot of stuff, according to Alvin, Alvin, there.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
It is, and this rent free in my head. We
want to play the record at double speed. Right, record
is ridiculous history.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
We should do it, Alvin. In the Chipmunks.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Episode, Yeah, it is almost Christmas times. Oh my gosh,
all right, nostalgia trip aside. According to Alvin Benson, our
buddy John Halliday is drifting around these towns because he
keeps getting in trouble with the law.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah. He's a bit of a reprobate, a bit of
a hot head. Was prone to, you know, solving his
disputes with violence.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah. So if you pulled the wrong card, he might
pull the right firearm. Pull your card, Yeah, he pull
your car. Oh, I love that reference the hood. So
he skidaddled to Denver in eighteen seventy six because he
(08:58):
killed a US soldier somewhere in the area of Fort Richardson.
And then after he went to Denver, he left Denver
with a bad reputation. There was another gambling guy, another
gambling gambine.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Some clouts. It would seem this is maybe why he
had to skidaddle.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, yeah, and they fought with guns. He ultimately looked.
His story ultimately takes him to Fort Griffin, Texas, and
this is where he meets a character will all recognize
from Tombstone, Kate Elder Herrony.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah. They met in Fort Griffin, where he also met
the aforementioned US Marshall mister Wyatt Earp, portrayed by Kurt
Russell in the film Huh Tombstone we were talking about earlier.
He was in Texas on the Tale of an Outlaw,
and Doc Holliday himself once again crossed paths in a
(10:04):
negative way with the law when he's stabbed a dude
over a gambling beef in there in Fort Griffin, and
he was in fact jailed, but the love of his life, Herony,
lent him a hand in plotting his great escape.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
And I love picturing all of us, all four of
us you listening along get home, the Bagman and the
Huckleberry and yours truly, I love picturing us as bounty
hunters or skip tracers we call them. Now, Would you
guys ever do that? Would you guys ever be bounty hunters?
(10:41):
Dog remember Dog Scary or Christopher Waltz's character from Django.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, that guy was more less scary, but like he's
the kind of scary that doesn't have to act outwardly
scary because he just gets right down to brass tacks.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
And also a dentist.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Ben you did kind of buried the lead in that
hit upon the secret skill at the heart of today's
discussion of our guy, Doc Halliday or Holiday. He was,
in fact, not only a gambler, degenerate gambler, a legendary reprobate,
potentially less of a gun slinger than he himself might
have let on, but he did sling some guns from
(11:18):
time to time. But also he'd dig around in your mouth.
I love the way you put that. Oh, that's so uncomfortable.
He'd dig around in your wet mouth. Yes, another adjective.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
As you were saying, Noel. After Kate rescues our buddy John,
they head over to Dodge City, Kansas, and Halliday is
dealing Pharaoh at a place called the Long Branch Saloon.
This is where Wyatt and Doc Holiday become best friends.
(12:02):
Ever because in Dodge City, Kansas, our buddy, our buddy
Holiday saves wyatt earp from a bunch of dudes who
are about to jump him.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Man, I thought I was gonna be from a wicked
tooth infection.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
That would be better for this story for sure. Alas alas, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
I mean that's the thing though, right, He holiday himself
may have you know, exaggerated his reputation as some sort
of tough guy. It seems though, when we really dig
down into the details, he was a bit more of
a hothead, like we said earlier, rather than some sort
of precision you know, surgical killer, right, yeah, assassin's creed.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
This guy was not. But he did have the reputation
of being a superb marksman. He was cold in the time.
In this brief period of years, he was called one
of the most deadly gun fighters of the Old West,
likely by himself, likely by him to be quite honest, Yes,
(13:14):
likely by himself.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah, possible in this idea that he killed thirty five
men's you know, with a single handedly. And he was
also an ace with a bowie knife. Yeah, borderline mythical
type stuff, but not only mythical, also quite apocryphal.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Right, Apocryphal is the right way to say it, because
he is you know, he's a larger than life character.
Peko's Bill kind of thing. A lot of I forgot
about Picos Bill, A lot of lurid stories. Can you
like create the Great Lakes with his lassu or something?
I'm sure he did. I'm sure he and his gigantic
(13:56):
Blue Ox had a great time.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
And our fact based wasn't that Paul Bunyon? Oh?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
That was Paul Bunyon. There's so many people.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
There's a there's a pretty awesome and real problematic Disney
cartoon about Peko's Bill, right, that involves some pretty off
depictions of First Nations people, let's just say, and depicts
Peko's Bill as the absolute hero whilst he's annihilating these
people with his weapons.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Right, pekos Bill, Paul Bunyon, two different people, uh, two
different legends kind of been diagrammed it one of those like.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
How did the thing get made? You know with magical
white dude that did it?
Speaker 1 (14:45):
There we go, h our buddy. Doc is a real guy.
He's not called Doc just yet. He's John Halliday. And
the stories about him stabbing or shooting thirty five plus people,
they were mostly written way after he was in play,
(15:08):
and he popularized this image he leant into it. The
man if you meet him in reality while he's alive,
he's riddled with tuberculosis, he's kind of frail. He's actually
not great at shooting, but he is very good at
(15:31):
intimidation and theatrics. So he would literally sort of wave
his gun around, speak some dangerous implications, and make people
feel that they would be in trouble. We do know
that he killed at least one person with a shotgun,
(15:53):
one of the easiest firearms to aim. He killed a
guy named Tom mclaurie during the infamous fight at the
OK Corral.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Right, I believe that's one of his only confirmed kills.
It's the only one, the only one gotcha. So again,
a lot of apocryphal myth making stuff likely started by
Doc himself. He was used to, like we said, you know,
settling his disputes with with with fisticuffs and or you know,
(16:23):
his iron October twenty sixth, eighteen eighty one, in one
of the most written about instances of gun fighting in
nineteenth century America, Holiday stood side by side with IRP
at the OK Corral in that notorious fight that killed
three members of the Clanton Gang. And this is in
this period after the Tombstone gunfight that was also you know,
(16:46):
dramatized in that film.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah, and if you go to Tombstone, Arizona today, you're
going to see a lot of tourism stuff about it.
I'll be honest with you. We're an audio podcast, but
I very much have a Tombstone mustache right now. Thanks man.
It's not on purpose, it's for some sketch comedy. But
(17:13):
if you go to Tombstone, Arizona, you will see factual
accountings of a very brief gunfight. Actually, and after this fight,
our buddy Doc is allegedly helping Wyatt Erp murder other
(17:33):
members of the Clanton Gang, Frank Stillwell and Florentino Cruz.
The thing is, our buddy John never goes to trial
for either of these murders. Instead, he passes away of tuberculosis,
the same condition that killed his mother on November eighth,
(17:56):
eighteen eighty seven, in a little place in Colorado called
Glenn Wood Springs. Sounds nice, Yeah, so nice sub division.
Who doesn't love a spring or a glen or a wood.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
No, I mean, I live, you know what's funny? I
never mind not going to dox myself but I live
on a street involving some of those words.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
We also uh, as we said, we buried the lead
a little bit. For any fellow fans of the Tombstone
cinematic masterpiece, if you're wondering why they call him Doc,
it's because he actually was a doctor asterisk.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know in those days. I
suppose that maybe he didn't take You didn't have to
exactly get a four year degree, uh to practice medicine.
That's why they call it practicing. He did, actually, uh,
he did have some bona fides, as he also got
from his generally affluent upbringing. As we mentioned as far
there was a man of means, and Doc's education reflected that.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Yeah. Absolutely so. If you're looking at the guy's jacket,
as we would say in law enforcement, you'll see that,
despite being pretty nomadic before he died at the young
age of thirty six, he would not just be a gambler.
He would also say, hey, I'll fix your teeth. He
(19:29):
established himself. Due to his agrarian upbringing, he had a
phenomenal education for the time, especially in Georgia. He was
able to ship off to Philadelphia and go to the
Pennsylvania College of Dental Surgery after being homeschooled in math, rhetoric, grammar, history,
(19:51):
the classics, the classics exactly. He spoke Latin. Okay, at
least he knew some phrases.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Well, that's funny because one key part of Doc Holliday's character,
as he's depicted in fiction, is often his aerodyte speech
and his flowery kind of language. Wouldn't you say, absolutely,
it seems to indicate that background in this sort of
you know, realm of literature and history.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, dude. And at the time, the Pennsylvania College of
Dental Surgery was the second oldest dentist outfit in the
United States. And his father said, Uh, you got to
be a dentist, John, because it's more respectable than being
a doctor, he says, more progressive as well.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Interesting, whatever that sentiment came from.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
We'll never know. I guess the guy didn't like doctors,
but his pattern familius was pro dentist, anti doctor.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Weird.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
The mouth is the window to the soul, as they
say that. But you know, like, yeah, there are so
many infections and dangerous things that can originate in the mouth,
and in this day where dental hygiene was probably not
the best. A dentist could absolutely save someone's life.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
And this kid is a cracker jack student. With just
a year under his belt, he learned everything that Pennsylvania
could teach him about dentistry, so much so that he
met diminishing returns. He finished his studies a little too early.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, he wasn't the appropriate age to receive his diploma.
I believe it's interesting you don't think about this, but
he had to be a minimum age of twenty one
in order to practice dentistry in the state. So he
had to weigh another five months before he got to
start his career.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
And that's the state of Pennsylvania. After he graduates, he
goes back home Orgy they have like children practicing dentists. Yeah,
totally fine. Yeah, the minute you land in Hartsville, Atlanta,
watch out for baby dentists.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
That's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
If you take nothing away from.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Still to this day, you get off the plane, the
little baby's coming at you, run it at you. Trying
to think of the names of other dental tools, but
let's see novacane speculum. That's very different to the profession.
That's a different kind of mouth. Oh gosh, I don't
know if we can keep that part. But different Holt,
(22:37):
that's not better, We're making it worse.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Holiday is returning to the Atlanta metro areas. So he's
he's from Griffin, which is about what we say, forty
miles south as the crow flies.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
And funnily enough, Atlanta being a metro area, it doesn't
take much more than forty or fifty miles in either
direction for it to start feeling.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Real, real, real, real. I know some cows by first name.
So he goes to a guy named doctor arthur Ford.
Doctor arthur Ford is an established dentist, and it.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Sounds like you don't get a name like that or.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Nothing, right, and uh so he studies. He's like the
paddle one or the disciple of this guy. Their dentistry
practice becomes the largest in the city, and if you
didn't have tuberculosis, you would be set for life.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
It's just it's not something that we worry about as
much these days, but there was a big deal back then. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
The problem is this guy is like coughing up blood
a character in the films, right, and he's coughing probably
in other people's mouths. Hygiene wasn't where it is now
and that bloody hanky, yeah, bobdial. And so he is recommended.
(24:06):
He's plugged in with the medical industry of the day,
so he can see doctors. He has primary care physicians,
and his guys recommend that he leaves the Southeast, as
we're saying, for a drier environment, for different air. That
takes him to Dallas, Texas. And at first he's like,
(24:27):
I like gambling, but at my heart, you know, I'm
a dentist, so I should find another dental outfit and
just keep being weird about teeth. And he finds a
guy named doctor John Seegar.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah, they go into business together, set up a practice
that does quite well for a time, that is, until
Doc's unfortunate symptoms return. And it's probably not the best
look to have a you know, I don't know if
they had n ninety five masks back in those days,
So probably not the best look to have a dude
like coughing up lung chunks into your mouth. Well he's
(25:02):
digging around in there. Yeah, it was a bad look.
It led to a bad reputation, and therefore the business
began to decline. Holliday then was forced to seek alternate employment.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah, and he was. He was doing a good job,
like he was technically good for the time, so much
so that he won awards at the Dallas County Fair.
He and doctor Seeger they got awards for quote best
(25:36):
set of teeth in gold, quote best in vulcanized rubber,
and quote best set of artificial teeth and dental wear. Now, Noel,
I want to go back to this idea of vulcanized
rubber teeth.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah, I don't know much about this.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
It's not straight seahorse teeth.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
It certainly is. And I'm so glad that you pulled
out that chestnut from the glory days. Now, you know
what we're in, the glory days, the early days of
ridiculous history.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah, I mean rubber teeth, tires for your mouth. I
guess that's all teeth are.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Vulcanized rubber is exactly what was used for tires. That
process is what led to the expansion of you know,
like the Michelin company volcanization.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
And also led to Ford Landy an episode speaking of
old chestnuts.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Did that one, didn't we?
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah, we must have.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
We had to.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
His dental work docs in Fort Griffin around eighteen seventy seven.
We don't have a ton of documentation about it, but
we do know that the love of his life, Kate
Elder Herony, claimed her old boy Doc would sit around
(27:01):
in his hotel room in Fort Griffin and just do
pop up dentistry. Would you ever go to a pop
up dentist?
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Well maybe in eighteen seventy seven, now maybe, who knows.
That's again back to Deadwood. I'm sure there's It's not
always entirely accurate, but I enjoy the show very much,
and you do often see those kind of off the
books medical procedures being done in a brothel we're in,
you know, one's rented room, you know, by the dock.
(27:34):
And that show played by the guy that did the
voice of Chucky the Doll, No kidding, the murder doll.
What was his name, Brad Dorif, I believe is his name,
And that show also depicts one of the most brutal
examples of someone with kidney stones that I think any
of us have ever seen, where Al Swearingen and in
the dock have a little back and forth in trying
(27:55):
to expel swear Engine's kidney stone. It is brutal and
show how gnarly it must have been to get sick in.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Those days, especially at that time. Yeah, and shout out
to anybody who's ever had to deal with a kidney stone.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
I love a lot of things, but I did not
love it that experience. We do love the National Museum
of Dentistry, where we're getting a lot of our primary
sourcing from here, and the boffins at the National Museum
of Dentistry want us to tell you that by the
time our pal doc Holiday or Halliday as it's pronounced correctly,
(28:36):
has reached Fort Griffin, he already has a reputation as
a hot headache gambler who was a friend of the
bowie knife and the firearm. This is why people in
the know are calling him the Deadly Dentist.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, and I didn't. Didn't he like put out an
ad kind of for his services.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Absolutely? Yes, Spring of eighteen seven, he picks up a room.
Think of it like a long term hotel rental or
an airbnb at the dodge house a boarding house, so
he and the love of his life, Kate can hang
out there in Kansas. It is super swank for the environment.
(29:18):
They got billiards downstairs. There are definitely some card games
going on. Doc is in Seventh Heaven. Here he can
practice dentistry during the day, he can gamble. He doesn't
really have to leave the building. And we got to
(29:39):
do the ad. Let's do the ad.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Oh, it's fantastic, Jay, you know, And he goes for
a bit more of a professional name here in dentistry. JH.
Halliday dentist very respectfully offering his professional services to the
citizens of Dodge City and surrounding county during the summer
summer deal. His office resides at Room number twenty four
at Dodge House, where satisfaction is not given. Ben money
(30:04):
will be refunded. He's got a money back guarantee, stands
by his work and he's.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Got a money back guarantee. So how many people do
you think asked for their money back after he coughed
wet tubercular blood. Yeah unclear, Yeah, unclear. But we do
know something happened because later our pal Doc and Kate
(30:28):
move their tense stakes again, and this time they go
to either Nevada or New Mexico. But ultimately they arrive
in Las Vegas and it is just a few days
before Christmas of eighteen seventy eight. People at this time
were profoundly frightened of tuberculosis. It was a lot like
(30:54):
having a terminal cancer is today. So they would go
to the hot springs and the idea was there would
be some sort of rejuvenating quality to the water and
the air would be better. And eventually there were a
lot of people with tuberculosis in Vegas well, and.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
You could, you know, potentially be ostracized for having this.
People didn't want you around. There was a term of
abuse actually that was thrown around a lunger. You were
a lunger, not a lunger, a lunger, And I've heard
that in various Westerns and stuff. It's definitely like an insult.
But I love the fact that the Doc, along with
some of the folks around him there in that town,
(31:38):
they kind of take it back and start something called
the Lungers Club.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
I love it. And everybody watching Tombstone you may have
had that moment where we saw we saw the one
of the main bad guys who also speaks Latin, keeps
referring to Doc as a lunger, and he's like, oh, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
That's where it is. Yeah, I've heard another thing to do.
But you're right then you say that a lot like
but they're using it as a nasty you know.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
But in yeah and so, I love the point you're
bringing up about owning the phrase. Right, there are enough
of us to make our own club. We'll call it
the Lungers Club. Doc wants to help these people, so
he sets up a new dentistry practice almost in the
middle of town. And it doesn't last long because there
(32:30):
is a very cold winter that year. And more importantly
for our pal Doc, the government issues a new bill.
And this bill says no more gambling. Ahh okay, that's
classic anti Doc truly.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah. March of eighteen seventy nine. He you know, you
can't take the gamble out of the dock, so he's
he very politely declines to change his behavior, but unfortunately
that does cause him to run a foul yet again
of the new law, and he is indicted for running
an illegal gambling game.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
He's got a hot head. He loves the cards. His
fingers love the cards. He can't not play Pharaoh. He's
not jailed, though, he just.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Gets you know, hit with a stiff fine and then
decides to he's leaving. He's leaving Las Vegas.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
You know, and to be clear, we are talking about
Las Vegas, New Mexico.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Because Las Vegas, Nevada wasn't even it was barely a
glimmer in the eye of the mafia at this point.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Right, Oh, we should do an episode.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
No, I know, we have done something about binions, like
a lot of the signs and some of the early
remember we talked to We definitely have talked about some
of these things. But you're one hundred percent right, and
there's got to be a bigger story there.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Dude, there's an origin story when we are such an
old married couple right now. New Mexico is definitely a state,
and our research associated for this episode, Max points out
that we still do not have a New Mexico state
episode yet. Yeah, okay, we count this one.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
I think we could. It's it's definitely spends it a
reasonable reasonable amount of time in New Mexico, So sure,
for sure, but we'll still do a bigger one. Can
I take a moment as we're talking about New Mexico
just to sad are ass? Have you seen the New
Vents Gilligan show yet, pluribus?
Speaker 1 (34:30):
I have not, but I've heard good things.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
It's phenomenal and it is set in New Mexico in
Albuquerque yet again, but not a extended universe of Breaking
Bad or better call.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Salt Jesus events. Just get the key to the city.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
He loves it there. He loves it there. He apparently
did it only because he just likes working with his
crew there. And there is a mural somewhere there in
Albuquerque of Walter White's tombstone. So taking a full circle there,
you can take your picture with Walter White's tombstone. Also,
gee's to whomever owns that house, because I remember it's
a house. Yeah, and the heyday of Breaking Bad fandom,
(35:07):
there were people who just drive up and frisbee, uh pizza,
a pizza box atop the roof. You've heard the lore.
Apparently he got that in the first take and it
wasn't even like it just he just nailed it.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, it's also fun to throw a pizza box like
a frisbee.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
It's a giant pizza too. I think that's sort of
part of the joke. That's the biggest pizza I've ever seen.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Well, it's easier. I think it's easier for throwing over distance. Wait,
how many pizza boxes do you guys throw like on
a monthly basis.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I'm gonna go with none, But now that you're putting
this in my ear, I think I might need to
change that.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
So to you love the way when he throws it
at the pizza and the pizza box just go their
own ways, you know, and the pizza ends up completely
there you go, completely h d boxed and hanging on
the roof perfectly.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
So to conclude our tail for today, as we all know,
the Deadly Dentist has one more stop. It is Tombstone, Arizona.
There is not proof of this. This is again apocryphal,
but from what we understand he was still working tentatively
(36:20):
as a dentist.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
A mouth diver.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
A mouth diver is the phrase our research associate, Max
chose for that one.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
It's very good. So wait, so all of the stuff
that's portrayed in the movie Tombstone, like it's been a
lot of times as I've seen it, he does some shooting,
some rooting and toot and shooting in that movie.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Doesn't he He does. He does as a badass right
very much so, like in the milieu of the film,
Doc is already established as a known threat and gambler.
So we see a couple of scenes with him an
expert marksman, standoff guy, and one of the most pivotal
(37:05):
scenes will will be him walking in a trench coat
with a shotgun underneath. Yeah, and then and then there's
also the scene of him with a six shooter at
his back, tucked into his back belt. Yeah. So he
was quick with it, at least in the film.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
But we know.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
We know that wyatt ierp at least in his own account,
appeared to believe that Doc was still attempting to go
legit as a dentist in Tombstone. As we know. Ultimately
he does end up in the mucolic glen Wood Springs,
(37:51):
Colorado because of the sulfurous water people thought that might
leave tuberculosis. And then even in the grips of an
advanced medical condition, our buddy John Doc Holiday attempts to
practice dentistry again, but it doesn't work and he passes away.
(38:15):
He's thirty six. It's oh my god, eighteen eighty seven,
so young.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
He does to come to the to the condition that's
been plaguing him ever since he was a lad.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
The unconfirmed reports of his last words, which again, well,
we have to give a grain assault to Apparently his
last words were make sure you floss after them huckleberries,
which I'm pretty sure Max made up, I think purpose.
I don't know if they had dental flaws yet back
(38:50):
in those days they did. Most people's last words are
something like.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Death rattle.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah, thanks for the beep there.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
It would have been cool, though, if his last words
were dental hygiene related. You know, he really was passionate
about you can't prove it wrong. That's very true, Max,
and I'm not going to try.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
I think I can. But we'll see episode for different
You were there, Yoda, I got the mustache. That's like
a time travels passport.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
You guys are kindred spirits, and there's no question.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
I appreciate that. I think so we should also do
an episode on famous last words, if we haven't yet huckleberries,
and on huckle the fruit, if it is in fact
even a real I truly don't know. Last pro tip, folks,
for this episode. There is a healthy discourse around what
(39:47):
Val Kilmer actually said in that line from Tombstone. Did
he say I'm your huckle berry, or did he say,
I'm your huckle barrow. Very strange conversation. We welcome you
to it, and we are so excited that you have
joined us today. Big shout out to our super producer
mister Max Williams, also our research associate for today's episode.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
And our huckleberry, which is in fact a fruit that
exists and is in the blueberry family. Tight huge thanks
to Alex Williams who composed this theme. Chris Frosciotis needs
Jeff cos Heren Spear, big.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Big thanks to our pals doctor Rachel Big, Spinach Lance,
as well as A J. Bahamas Jacobs and Oh Gosh,
our own one man, Clanton Gang, Jonathan Strickland A K.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
The Quist. You know what you did. We'll see you
next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows,
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Let's give a shout out
to our super producer, Max Tombstone Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
What you can always call me your Huggleberry. You're always
our huckleberry. Max. Do you like a tombstone pizza? What's
your favorite oven pizza? Note three years ago, back before
the condition. I would love a tombstone pizza. Something about it,
like pizza and a Matza cracker. It's something, you know,
it's nothing like it. I wouldn't say it's good, but
(00:58):
it's something. It's nostalgic.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Right, Thank you guys for the nostalgic MOTSA shout out.
Uh that's Noel Brown. I'm Ben Bowlin, Oh my gosh,
and we're here to talk about one of our favorite
legends in the American zeitgeist. You may have heard our
pal Max say I'm your huckleberry, and I think Noel,
(01:23):
we make it official. So you're the bag man eternal
and uh, Max, how about you be the huckleberry.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
What even is the huckleberry in this? In this context?
Is that is he referring to like the the berry? Hi?
This is this a thing people said.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I originally thought it was a reference to Mark Twain's
Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
You're totally right. I'm your sidekick, I'm your Huckleberry Finn.
I got your back. That's what he's saying. That's exactly
what he's saying. Man. Probably, Man, maybe I put that
together at one point, but I surely though apparently our
buddy Doc Holliday was a bit of a weedy little
fellow who may have done some myth making of his
own and may not have ever actually said.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
That, who was a bit tubercular.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
He was a bit tubercular.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
This is the episode where we dive into the real
story of the legendary Doc Holiday, most famous in the
American zeitgeist as a character portrayed and embellished by Val
Kilmer in the film Tombstone.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Right in the film Tombstone where the phrase I'm your
huckleberry got popularized, it's a fun movie. Well, why Itt Arp? Yeah,
who plays him, isn't it Kurt Russell? Kurt Russell, that's
right of the thing fame. I enjoy that movie a
lot of It's probably as our most as we've talked
(03:00):
about on this very podcast accounts of the wild West
a bit embellished, bit overblown. Oh yes, yeah, a lot
of myth making that went into those stories, oftentimes from
the individuals themselves.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Oh absolutely, As we established earlier, and I love that point. Now,
the wild West is a period of time that was
actually fairly brief.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
We have an episode specifically called like how the wild
West was actually relatively tame?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
We do, we very much do. And when we dive
into the character the actual fact, shout out Lord Vogelbaum, person,
Doc Holiday. What we will see is a Georgia boy.
So if we go to Alvin K. Benson over at Ebscow,
(03:53):
we see that John Henry Holiday with two els was
born like us in August because he's extra Halidday, not Holiday.
He was born on August fourteenth, eighteen fifty one, right
(04:16):
down here in Griffin, Georgia, just.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Down the way. We know folks that stay in Griffin.
John Henry Halliday indeed second child of Alice Jane and
Henry Burrows Holiday. John's dad was a pharmacist who made
his fortune in planting and also lawyering. He was a
planter and a lawyer, bit of a multi pyphonate, yes.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Patrician agrarian. Yeah. Unfortunately, the guy who will later be
nicknamed Doc lost his mother fairly early in life. She
died of tuberculosis on September sixteenth, eighteen sixty.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Bit of a mythical origin story. If you ask me,
it's almost like he never got over it.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Oh my gosh, the levels to what you just said.
In eighteen seventy three, our buddy John is diagnosed with
tuberculosis himself just several years after his mother passes away.
So he looks to the west. Now here the climate
right right, yeah, here in the in this period of
(05:30):
time in the US, one of the things doctors would
advise you to do with a chronic with a chronic
condition affecting your lungs was to just go to a
different environment. Find different yeah, convalesce, yeah, find a drier climate.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
And so what drier climate then Dallas, Texas. You can
also if you go to Dallas, Texas in the late
eighteen hundreds, you can also gamble your.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Keystar off right.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
This is like the types of early gambling halls that
we may have seen depicted in Deadwood. For example, the
game of Fayro, which I to this day don't fully
understand how it works. Is it sort of a poker
esque game? Let's see what the Internet has to say
about that.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I'm not a card doctor, nor am I.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
It does seem to involve poker hands, So yeah, just
I think it's a bit of a rudimentary early version
of poker.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Now, he started becoming an inveterate gambler or a nomadic gambler,
or a sort of hedge night of the Cards after
he left Dallas, Texas in eighteen seventy five. So he
spent about two years in Dallas before he got involved
(06:53):
in Lexas. Yeah, Hubbloos, he got involved in a a
firearm dispute put diplomatically, and as he said, Noel, from
about seventy five to seventy nine, three years he was
just going around the United States frontier and he was
(07:20):
not played pharaoh. He was dealing it. He was acting
as a dealer in Denver, in Las Vegas, in New Mexico,
in Cheyenne, and Dodge City, Kansas, which has always been
a really weird name to me. A certain city, oh yeah,
and a certain point. He had to get right out of
Dodge he did, He did. He was Denver, right, and
(07:46):
so dodged a bullet. There dodged a bullet. He dodged,
balled a lot of stuff, according to Alvin, Alvin, there.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
It is, and this rent free in my head. We
want to play the record at double speed. Right, record
is ridiculous history.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
We should do it, Alvin. In the Chipmunks.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Episode, Yeah, it is almost Christmas times. Oh my gosh,
all right, nostalgia trip aside. According to Alvin Benson, our
buddy John Halliday is drifting around these towns because he
keeps getting in trouble with the law.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah. He's a bit of a reprobate, a bit of
a hot head. Was prone to, you know, solving his
disputes with violence.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah. So if you pulled the wrong card, he might
pull the right firearm. Pull your card, Yeah, he pull
your car. Oh, I love that reference the hood. So
he skidaddled to Denver in eighteen seventy six because he
(08:58):
killed a US soldier somewhere in the area of Fort Richardson.
And then after he went to Denver, he left Denver
with a bad reputation. There was another gambling guy, another
gambling gambine.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Some clouts. It would seem this is maybe why he
had to skidaddle.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, yeah, and they fought with guns. He ultimately looked.
His story ultimately takes him to Fort Griffin, Texas, and
this is where he meets a character will all recognize
from Tombstone, Kate Elder Herrony.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah. They met in Fort Griffin, where he also met
the aforementioned US Marshall mister Wyatt Earp, portrayed by Kurt
Russell in the film Huh Tombstone we were talking about earlier.
He was in Texas on the Tale of an Outlaw,
and Doc Holliday himself once again crossed paths in a
(10:04):
negative way with the law when he's stabbed a dude
over a gambling beef in there in Fort Griffin, and
he was in fact jailed, but the love of his life, Herony,
lent him a hand in plotting his great escape.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
And I love picturing all of us, all four of
us you listening along get home, the Bagman and the
Huckleberry and yours truly, I love picturing us as bounty
hunters or skip tracers we call them. Now, Would you
guys ever do that? Would you guys ever be bounty hunters?
(10:41):
Dog remember Dog Scary or Christopher Waltz's character from Django.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, that guy was more less scary, but like he's
the kind of scary that doesn't have to act outwardly
scary because he just gets right down to brass tacks.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
And also a dentist.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Ben you did kind of buried the lead in that
hit upon the secret skill at the heart of today's
discussion of our guy, Doc Halliday or Holiday. He was,
in fact, not only a gambler, degenerate gambler, a legendary reprobate,
potentially less of a gun slinger than he himself might
have let on, but he did sling some guns from
(11:18):
time to time. But also he'd dig around in your mouth.
I love the way you put that. Oh, that's so uncomfortable.
He'd dig around in your wet mouth. Yes, another adjective.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
As you were saying, Noel. After Kate rescues our buddy John,
they head over to Dodge City, Kansas, and Halliday is
dealing Pharaoh at a place called the Long Branch Saloon.
This is where Wyatt and Doc Holiday become best friends.
(12:02):
Ever because in Dodge City, Kansas, our buddy, our buddy
Holiday saves wyatt earp from a bunch of dudes who
are about to jump him.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Man, I thought I was gonna be from a wicked
tooth infection.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
That would be better for this story for sure. Alas alas, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
I mean that's the thing though, right, He holiday himself
may have you know, exaggerated his reputation as some sort
of tough guy. It seems though, when we really dig
down into the details, he was a bit more of
a hothead, like we said earlier, rather than some sort
of precision you know, surgical killer, right, yeah, assassin's creed.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
This guy was not. But he did have the reputation
of being a superb marksman. He was cold in the time.
In this brief period of years, he was called one
of the most deadly gun fighters of the Old West,
likely by himself, likely by him to be quite honest, Yes,
(13:14):
likely by himself.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah, possible in this idea that he killed thirty five
men's you know, with a single handedly. And he was
also an ace with a bowie knife. Yeah, borderline mythical
type stuff, but not only mythical, also quite apocryphal.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Right, Apocryphal is the right way to say it, because
he is you know, he's a larger than life character.
Peko's Bill kind of thing. A lot of I forgot
about Picos Bill, A lot of lurid stories. Can you
like create the Great Lakes with his lassu or something?
I'm sure he did. I'm sure he and his gigantic
(13:56):
Blue Ox had a great time.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
And our fact based wasn't that Paul Bunyon? Oh?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
That was Paul Bunyon. There's so many people.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
There's a there's a pretty awesome and real problematic Disney
cartoon about Peko's Bill, right, that involves some pretty off
depictions of First Nations people, let's just say, and depicts
Peko's Bill as the absolute hero whilst he's annihilating these
people with his weapons.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Right, pekos Bill, Paul Bunyon, two different people, uh, two
different legends kind of been diagrammed it one of those like.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
How did the thing get made? You know with magical
white dude that did it?
Speaker 1 (14:45):
There we go, h our buddy. Doc is a real guy.
He's not called Doc just yet. He's John Halliday. And
the stories about him stabbing or shooting thirty five plus people,
they were mostly written way after he was in play,
(15:08):
and he popularized this image he leant into it. The
man if you meet him in reality while he's alive,
he's riddled with tuberculosis, he's kind of frail. He's actually
not great at shooting, but he is very good at
(15:31):
intimidation and theatrics. So he would literally sort of wave
his gun around, speak some dangerous implications, and make people
feel that they would be in trouble. We do know
that he killed at least one person with a shotgun,
(15:53):
one of the easiest firearms to aim. He killed a
guy named Tom mclaurie during the infamous fight at the
OK Corral.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Right, I believe that's one of his only confirmed kills.
It's the only one, the only one gotcha. So again,
a lot of apocryphal myth making stuff likely started by
Doc himself. He was used to, like we said, you know,
settling his disputes with with with fisticuffs and or you know,
(16:23):
his iron October twenty sixth, eighteen eighty one, in one
of the most written about instances of gun fighting in
nineteenth century America, Holiday stood side by side with IRP
at the OK Corral in that notorious fight that killed
three members of the Clanton Gang. And this is in
this period after the Tombstone gunfight that was also you know,
(16:46):
dramatized in that film.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah, and if you go to Tombstone, Arizona today, you're
going to see a lot of tourism stuff about it.
I'll be honest with you. We're an audio podcast, but
I very much have a Tombstone mustache right now. Thanks man.
It's not on purpose, it's for some sketch comedy. But
(17:13):
if you go to Tombstone, Arizona, you will see factual
accountings of a very brief gunfight. Actually, and after this fight,
our buddy Doc is allegedly helping Wyatt Erp murder other
(17:33):
members of the Clanton Gang, Frank Stillwell and Florentino Cruz.
The thing is, our buddy John never goes to trial
for either of these murders. Instead, he passes away of tuberculosis,
the same condition that killed his mother on November eighth,
(17:56):
eighteen eighty seven, in a little place in Colorado called
Glenn Wood Springs. Sounds nice, Yeah, so nice sub division.
Who doesn't love a spring or a glen or a wood.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
No, I mean, I live, you know what's funny? I
never mind not going to dox myself but I live
on a street involving some of those words.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
We also uh, as we said, we buried the lead
a little bit. For any fellow fans of the Tombstone
cinematic masterpiece, if you're wondering why they call him Doc,
it's because he actually was a doctor asterisk.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know in those days. I
suppose that maybe he didn't take You didn't have to
exactly get a four year degree, uh to practice medicine.
That's why they call it practicing. He did, actually, uh,
he did have some bona fides, as he also got
from his generally affluent upbringing. As we mentioned as far
there was a man of means, and Doc's education reflected that.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Yeah. Absolutely so. If you're looking at the guy's jacket,
as we would say in law enforcement, you'll see that,
despite being pretty nomadic before he died at the young
age of thirty six, he would not just be a gambler.
He would also say, hey, I'll fix your teeth. He
(19:29):
established himself. Due to his agrarian upbringing, he had a
phenomenal education for the time, especially in Georgia. He was
able to ship off to Philadelphia and go to the
Pennsylvania College of Dental Surgery after being homeschooled in math, rhetoric, grammar, history,
(19:51):
the classics, the classics exactly. He spoke Latin. Okay, at
least he knew some phrases.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Well, that's funny because one key part of Doc Holliday's character,
as he's depicted in fiction, is often his aerodyte speech
and his flowery kind of language. Wouldn't you say, absolutely,
it seems to indicate that background in this sort of
you know, realm of literature and history.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, dude. And at the time, the Pennsylvania College of
Dental Surgery was the second oldest dentist outfit in the
United States. And his father said, Uh, you got to
be a dentist, John, because it's more respectable than being
a doctor, he says, more progressive as well.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Interesting, whatever that sentiment came from.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
We'll never know. I guess the guy didn't like doctors,
but his pattern familius was pro dentist, anti doctor.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Weird.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
The mouth is the window to the soul, as they
say that. But you know, like, yeah, there are so
many infections and dangerous things that can originate in the mouth,
and in this day where dental hygiene was probably not
the best. A dentist could absolutely save someone's life.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
And this kid is a cracker jack student. With just
a year under his belt, he learned everything that Pennsylvania
could teach him about dentistry, so much so that he
met diminishing returns. He finished his studies a little too early.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, he wasn't the appropriate age to receive his diploma.
I believe it's interesting you don't think about this, but
he had to be a minimum age of twenty one
in order to practice dentistry in the state. So he
had to weigh another five months before he got to
start his career.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
And that's the state of Pennsylvania. After he graduates, he
goes back home Orgy they have like children practicing dentists. Yeah,
totally fine. Yeah, the minute you land in Hartsville, Atlanta,
watch out for baby dentists.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
That's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
If you take nothing away from.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Still to this day, you get off the plane, the
little baby's coming at you, run it at you. Trying
to think of the names of other dental tools, but
let's see novacane speculum. That's very different to the profession.
That's a different kind of mouth. Oh gosh, I don't
know if we can keep that part. But different Holt,
(22:37):
that's not better, We're making it worse.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Holiday is returning to the Atlanta metro areas. So he's
he's from Griffin, which is about what we say, forty
miles south as the crow flies.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
And funnily enough, Atlanta being a metro area, it doesn't
take much more than forty or fifty miles in either
direction for it to start feeling.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Real, real, real, real. I know some cows by first name.
So he goes to a guy named doctor arthur Ford.
Doctor arthur Ford is an established dentist, and it.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Sounds like you don't get a name like that or.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Nothing, right, and uh so he studies. He's like the
paddle one or the disciple of this guy. Their dentistry
practice becomes the largest in the city, and if you
didn't have tuberculosis, you would be set for life.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
It's just it's not something that we worry about as
much these days, but there was a big deal back then. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
The problem is this guy is like coughing up blood
a character in the films, right, and he's coughing probably
in other people's mouths. Hygiene wasn't where it is now
and that bloody hanky, yeah, bobdial. And so he is recommended.
(24:06):
He's plugged in with the medical industry of the day,
so he can see doctors. He has primary care physicians,
and his guys recommend that he leaves the Southeast, as
we're saying, for a drier environment, for different air. That
takes him to Dallas, Texas. And at first he's like,
(24:27):
I like gambling, but at my heart, you know, I'm
a dentist, so I should find another dental outfit and
just keep being weird about teeth. And he finds a
guy named doctor John Seegar.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah, they go into business together, set up a practice
that does quite well for a time, that is, until
Doc's unfortunate symptoms return. And it's probably not the best
look to have a you know, I don't know if
they had n ninety five masks back in those days,
So probably not the best look to have a dude
like coughing up lung chunks into your mouth. Well he's
(25:02):
digging around in there. Yeah, it was a bad look.
It led to a bad reputation, and therefore the business
began to decline. Holliday then was forced to seek alternate employment.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah, and he was. He was doing a good job,
like he was technically good for the time, so much
so that he won awards at the Dallas County Fair.
He and doctor Seeger they got awards for quote best
(25:36):
set of teeth in gold, quote best in vulcanized rubber,
and quote best set of artificial teeth and dental wear. Now, Noel,
I want to go back to this idea of vulcanized
rubber teeth.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah, I don't know much about this.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
It's not straight seahorse teeth.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
It certainly is. And I'm so glad that you pulled
out that chestnut from the glory days. Now, you know
what we're in, the glory days, the early days of
ridiculous history.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah, I mean rubber teeth, tires for your mouth. I
guess that's all teeth are.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Vulcanized rubber is exactly what was used for tires. That
process is what led to the expansion of you know,
like the Michelin company volcanization.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
And also led to Ford Landy an episode speaking of
old chestnuts.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Did that one, didn't we?
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah, we must have.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
We had to.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
His dental work docs in Fort Griffin around eighteen seventy seven.
We don't have a ton of documentation about it, but
we do know that the love of his life, Kate
Elder Herony, claimed her old boy Doc would sit around
(27:01):
in his hotel room in Fort Griffin and just do
pop up dentistry. Would you ever go to a pop
up dentist?
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Well maybe in eighteen seventy seven, now maybe, who knows.
That's again back to Deadwood. I'm sure there's It's not
always entirely accurate, but I enjoy the show very much,
and you do often see those kind of off the
books medical procedures being done in a brothel we're in,
you know, one's rented room, you know, by the dock.
(27:34):
And that show played by the guy that did the
voice of Chucky the Doll, No kidding, the murder doll.
What was his name, Brad Dorif, I believe is his name,
And that show also depicts one of the most brutal
examples of someone with kidney stones that I think any
of us have ever seen, where Al Swearingen and in
the dock have a little back and forth in trying
(27:55):
to expel swear Engine's kidney stone. It is brutal and
show how gnarly it must have been to get sick in.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Those days, especially at that time. Yeah, and shout out
to anybody who's ever had to deal with a kidney stone.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
I love a lot of things, but I did not
love it that experience. We do love the National Museum
of Dentistry, where we're getting a lot of our primary
sourcing from here, and the boffins at the National Museum
of Dentistry want us to tell you that by the
time our pal doc Holiday or Halliday as it's pronounced correctly,
(28:36):
has reached Fort Griffin, he already has a reputation as
a hot headache gambler who was a friend of the
bowie knife and the firearm. This is why people in
the know are calling him the Deadly Dentist.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, and I didn't. Didn't he like put out an
ad kind of for his services.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Absolutely? Yes, Spring of eighteen seven, he picks up a room.
Think of it like a long term hotel rental or
an airbnb at the dodge house a boarding house, so
he and the love of his life, Kate can hang
out there in Kansas. It is super swank for the environment.
(29:18):
They got billiards downstairs. There are definitely some card games
going on. Doc is in Seventh Heaven. Here he can
practice dentistry during the day, he can gamble. He doesn't
really have to leave the building. And we got to
(29:39):
do the ad. Let's do the ad.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Oh, it's fantastic, Jay, you know, And he goes for
a bit more of a professional name here in dentistry. JH.
Halliday dentist very respectfully offering his professional services to the
citizens of Dodge City and surrounding county during the summer
summer deal. His office resides at Room number twenty four
at Dodge House, where satisfaction is not given. Ben money
(30:04):
will be refunded. He's got a money back guarantee, stands
by his work and he's.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Got a money back guarantee. So how many people do
you think asked for their money back after he coughed
wet tubercular blood. Yeah unclear, Yeah, unclear. But we do
know something happened because later our pal Doc and Kate
(30:28):
move their tense stakes again, and this time they go
to either Nevada or New Mexico. But ultimately they arrive
in Las Vegas and it is just a few days
before Christmas of eighteen seventy eight. People at this time
were profoundly frightened of tuberculosis. It was a lot like
(30:54):
having a terminal cancer is today. So they would go
to the hot springs and the idea was there would
be some sort of rejuvenating quality to the water and
the air would be better. And eventually there were a
lot of people with tuberculosis in Vegas well, and.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
You could, you know, potentially be ostracized for having this.
People didn't want you around. There was a term of
abuse actually that was thrown around a lunger. You were
a lunger, not a lunger, a lunger, And I've heard
that in various Westerns and stuff. It's definitely like an insult.
But I love the fact that the Doc, along with
some of the folks around him there in that town,
(31:38):
they kind of take it back and start something called
the Lungers Club.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
I love it. And everybody watching Tombstone you may have
had that moment where we saw we saw the one
of the main bad guys who also speaks Latin, keeps
referring to Doc as a lunger, and he's like, oh, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
That's where it is. Yeah, I've heard another thing to do.
But you're right then you say that a lot like
but they're using it as a nasty you know.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
But in yeah and so, I love the point you're
bringing up about owning the phrase. Right, there are enough
of us to make our own club. We'll call it
the Lungers Club. Doc wants to help these people, so
he sets up a new dentistry practice almost in the
middle of town. And it doesn't last long because there
(32:30):
is a very cold winter that year. And more importantly
for our pal Doc, the government issues a new bill.
And this bill says no more gambling. Ahh okay, that's
classic anti Doc truly.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah. March of eighteen seventy nine. He you know, you
can't take the gamble out of the dock, so he's
he very politely declines to change his behavior, but unfortunately
that does cause him to run a foul yet again
of the new law, and he is indicted for running
an illegal gambling game.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
He's got a hot head. He loves the cards. His
fingers love the cards. He can't not play Pharaoh. He's
not jailed, though, he just.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Gets you know, hit with a stiff fine and then
decides to he's leaving. He's leaving Las Vegas.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
You know, and to be clear, we are talking about
Las Vegas, New Mexico.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Because Las Vegas, Nevada wasn't even it was barely a
glimmer in the eye of the mafia at this point.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Right, Oh, we should do an episode.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
No, I know, we have done something about binions, like
a lot of the signs and some of the early
remember we talked to We definitely have talked about some
of these things. But you're one hundred percent right, and
there's got to be a bigger story there.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Dude, there's an origin story when we are such an
old married couple right now. New Mexico is definitely a state,
and our research associated for this episode, Max points out
that we still do not have a New Mexico state
episode yet. Yeah, okay, we count this one.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
I think we could. It's it's definitely spends it a
reasonable reasonable amount of time in New Mexico, So sure,
for sure, but we'll still do a bigger one. Can
I take a moment as we're talking about New Mexico
just to sad are ass? Have you seen the New
Vents Gilligan show yet, pluribus?
Speaker 1 (34:30):
I have not, but I've heard good things.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
It's phenomenal and it is set in New Mexico in
Albuquerque yet again, but not a extended universe of Breaking
Bad or better call.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Salt Jesus events. Just get the key to the city.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
He loves it there. He loves it there. He apparently
did it only because he just likes working with his
crew there. And there is a mural somewhere there in
Albuquerque of Walter White's tombstone. So taking a full circle there,
you can take your picture with Walter White's tombstone. Also,
gee's to whomever owns that house, because I remember it's
a house. Yeah, and the heyday of Breaking Bad fandom,
(35:07):
there were people who just drive up and frisbee, uh pizza,
a pizza box atop the roof. You've heard the lore.
Apparently he got that in the first take and it
wasn't even like it just he just nailed it.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, it's also fun to throw a pizza box like
a frisbee.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
It's a giant pizza too. I think that's sort of
part of the joke. That's the biggest pizza I've ever seen.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Well, it's easier. I think it's easier for throwing over distance. Wait,
how many pizza boxes do you guys throw like on
a monthly basis.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I'm gonna go with none, But now that you're putting
this in my ear, I think I might need to
change that.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
So to you love the way when he throws it
at the pizza and the pizza box just go their
own ways, you know, and the pizza ends up completely
there you go, completely h d boxed and hanging on
the roof perfectly.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
So to conclude our tail for today, as we all know,
the Deadly Dentist has one more stop. It is Tombstone, Arizona.
There is not proof of this. This is again apocryphal,
but from what we understand he was still working tentatively
(36:20):
as a dentist.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
A mouth diver.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
A mouth diver is the phrase our research associate, Max
chose for that one.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
It's very good. So wait, so all of the stuff
that's portrayed in the movie Tombstone, like it's been a
lot of times as I've seen it, he does some shooting,
some rooting and toot and shooting in that movie.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Doesn't he He does. He does as a badass right
very much so, like in the milieu of the film,
Doc is already established as a known threat and gambler.
So we see a couple of scenes with him an
expert marksman, standoff guy, and one of the most pivotal
(37:05):
scenes will will be him walking in a trench coat
with a shotgun underneath. Yeah, and then and then there's
also the scene of him with a six shooter at
his back, tucked into his back belt. Yeah. So he
was quick with it, at least in the film.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
But we know.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
We know that wyatt ierp at least in his own account,
appeared to believe that Doc was still attempting to go
legit as a dentist in Tombstone. As we know. Ultimately
he does end up in the mucolic glen Wood Springs,
(37:51):
Colorado because of the sulfurous water people thought that might
leave tuberculosis. And then even in the grips of an
advanced medical condition, our buddy John Doc Holiday attempts to
practice dentistry again, but it doesn't work and he passes away.
(38:15):
He's thirty six. It's oh my god, eighteen eighty seven,
so young.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
He does to come to the to the condition that's
been plaguing him ever since he was a lad.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
The unconfirmed reports of his last words, which again, well,
we have to give a grain assault to Apparently his
last words were make sure you floss after them huckleberries,
which I'm pretty sure Max made up, I think purpose.
I don't know if they had dental flaws yet back
(38:50):
in those days they did. Most people's last words are
something like.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Death rattle.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah, thanks for the beep there.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
It would have been cool, though, if his last words
were dental hygiene related. You know, he really was passionate
about you can't prove it wrong. That's very true, Max,
and I'm not going to try.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
I think I can. But we'll see episode for different
You were there, Yoda, I got the mustache. That's like
a time travels passport.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
You guys are kindred spirits, and there's no question.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
I appreciate that. I think so we should also do
an episode on famous last words, if we haven't yet huckleberries,
and on huckle the fruit, if it is in fact
even a real I truly don't know. Last pro tip, folks,
for this episode. There is a healthy discourse around what
(39:47):
Val Kilmer actually said in that line from Tombstone. Did
he say I'm your huckle berry, or did he say,
I'm your huckle barrow. Very strange conversation. We welcome you
to it, and we are so excited that you have
joined us today. Big shout out to our super producer
mister Max Williams, also our research associate for today's episode.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
And our huckleberry, which is in fact a fruit that
exists and is in the blueberry family. Tight huge thanks
to Alex Williams who composed this theme. Chris Frosciotis needs
Jeff cos Heren Spear, big.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Big thanks to our pals doctor Rachel Big, Spinach Lance,
as well as A J. Bahamas Jacobs and Oh Gosh,
our own one man, Clanton Gang, Jonathan Strickland A K.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
The Quist. You know what you did. We'll see you
next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows,
Ridiculous History News
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