February 14, 2023 • 47 mins
If you've ever tried to buy beer at the wrong time in certain parts of the US, you may have run into the odd proscriptions known as blue laws. Originally intended as a way of enforcing Christian religious practices, these laws ban certain business and recreational activities -- not just booze! -- on Sundays. But what are these things, exactly? How did they come to be, and why did the Supreme Court ultimately rule them constitutional despite their religious origins? Tune in as Ben, Noel and Max set the record straight on blue laws... and don't worry, you can still listen to this episode on Sundays.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
(00:27):
back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always
so much for tuning in. This is Ridiculous Histories blue
period sort of and there's no law against that. Does
that mean we're gonna swear? Does that mean we're gonna
get We're gonna we're gonna tell dirty jokes. We might
go some naughty limericks. Perhaps we'll see what our super producer,
(00:50):
Mr Max Williams, let's sneak through the edit. Uh, you're nol.
I'm saying, I love I love that you're you're referencing
going blue. Can you tell everybody a little bit what
that is? They may not know. I I forget what
the actual etymology or the you know, providences of the expression.
But it's an old timey comedy term referring to doing
(01:13):
raunchy material. Um, I don't. I can't, for the life
of me remember where the blue part comes from. But
today we're talking about some other kind of blue parts
blue laws. Uh, and we do know where the blue
and that comes from, and we're gonna get to it.
It's stupider than you might think. And I always assume
that blue laws were maybe in some way connected to
(01:33):
the concept of like blue being a term for bad
or like you know, naughtiness and in sin and debauchery.
But um not the case, As is often the case,
It's something much more innocuous and kind of dull. But
the story itself neither innocuous nor dull. Right, Yeah, no
blue laws. If you are unfamiliar with the term, it
(01:56):
may be that you live outside of the United States,
or maybe you don't live in an area where blue
laws are a thing. But blue laws are often seen
as these kind of puritanical stipulations, right, these policies that
are meant to target vices or leisure or just having
(02:19):
a good time. And a lot of what we would
call blue laws or some descendant thereof, are still on
the books today. No full disclosure. The three of us
usually record ridiculous history from the fair metropolis of Atlanta, Georgia,
which is in the southeastern United States, which has a
(02:40):
little bit of a reputation both in our country and abroad.
It doesn't. Before we get into that reputation, I just
have to point out I was looking for where blue
comedy came from, and it's associated with the word rybaldry.
You know, the rybald humor is another word referring to
kind of body or or unchy comedy. And on the
(03:01):
Wikipedia page for it, here's a picture of just a
man like in a woman like you see on a
on a bathroom door, like the kind of like little
stick figure, and one has a heart on the woman's chest,
and you know, there's a heart on the man's uh
swimsuit area. And I guess that is that as a
graphic depicting what a sexual joke might represent. It's like
(03:23):
you're talking about it up here down there. That's best
ryeball baby, that's blue. And we don't go blue in
this town. And and that's the case. We we do
go blue though in in many towns in Georgia these
laws a lot of them have been phased out. But
I had an encounter myself that I think would be
a good tone setter here. It was on a Sunday.
I don't remember how it happened, but a wall got
(03:47):
punched through in a rental property. I don't remember exactly
what led to that, but we all of a sudden
needed to fix it very quickly, and so we went
to Walmart, which was open, and we made it all
the way to the checkout and we had like some
some you know wall fixed and stuff, and they wouldn't
sell it to us on a Sunday. And I'm like,
(04:09):
wait a minute, what I don't understand. And they had
to explain to me what blue laws were, because it's
not just alcohol prohibition on right, which a lot of
people assume as as I did. It's it's it's all
kinds of other stuff. Is anything that would cause you
to not treat the Lord's Day as a proper day
of rest and repose and you know, holiness, and uh,
(04:33):
this coming from a very Christian culture at the time,
they thought of Sunday as the Lord's Day. That's right,
that's right, as opposed to Saturday. But the Saturday the
true Sabbathist. So also one other note about blue laws.
Uh we did find the etymology there. Well, I was
(04:53):
looking the same thing. The story that you hear most often.
This guy named Max Miller, like comedian from the very
like from the early nineteen hundreds. He apparently made the
phrase up because part of his act was that you
have two books, one that was a white book. This
is the family friendly jokes right, and when there was
(05:14):
a Blue Book and he would ask the audience to
choose which jokes they wanted to hear. I don't know
if that's true. And then it became the Kelly Blue
Book from there on and it had just you know,
resale prices for cars and the rest was history. And
those are hilarious again today you see comedy is cyclical. Yeah,
because they're outlandishly incorrect. No one's getting anywhere close to
(05:36):
anything approximating a Kelly Blue Book value on reselling your car.
But I'm glad we cleared that up. That's helpful. Um,
back to the Blue Laws, Where did that name come from?
Why don't we just get that out of the way
since we're talking about the origins of blue things. Yeah,
so this is actually an old idea. It's not. It's
not as if a bunch of Puritans in the US
(05:58):
just had a bad day. There were restrictions of this
sort all the way back to the twelve hundreds in England,
and colonial settlements were sort of redoing or adapting similar
laws in their own time, and then the early Blue
Laws as a result in New England were pretty extensive.
(06:21):
They banned all sorts of stuff. I love you to
point out it's not just alcohol, it's hunting, wearing shirt
sleeves that are overly lacy, and so on. And then
these laws got kind of grandfathered in. They became legacy
laws as the Union and the United States became a thing.
We think the name itself to your question, uh, most
(06:43):
likely derives from a guy named Samuel A. Peters who
wrote a General History of Connecticut in seventeen eighty one.
Spoiler it's not a huge, you know, edge of your
seat kind of kind of book, but the way for
the movie to come out, I hear the adaptation's gonna slap.
I think they got um Yahoo serious out of retirement
(07:06):
for this one. And if they can make a movie
about the cocaine Bear, I think they can probably make
a movie on Samuel A. Peter's General History of Connecticut,
right right. It's it's a it's inspired by it's a
LuSE reworking. There are a lot more robots uh in
the script, but hopefully yeah, well, I mean that guy
is blowing up his career. Is he's the next Yianu? Honestly?
(07:30):
Um so this in this thing, the General History of Connecticut,
the author claims to list all the Sabbath regulations of
New Haven, Connecticut, and the book itself. This is how
simple it is, is printed on blue paper. But that
that isn't a hundred percent the proven origin, right, There's
(07:55):
some other accounts and before less anyone uh pounce on me.
I was half joking when I referred to Saturday as
the true Sabbath, because obviously different religions recognized the Sabbath
on different days. It is the biblical Sabbath, Saturday. Yeah,
I think we I hope that everybody knows we're joking
(08:18):
on things like these. There's I mean, it's just gonna
ruin our fun if we have to say there probably
aren't a bunch of robots in a History of Connecticut.
In the film adaptation, which is by the Coen Brothers,
and they do have Javier Bardine playing at least one robot.
(08:39):
There's at least one robot integral to the plow. I
would have cast him as the cocaine bear personally, but
that's just me by some accounts. Yes, you are correct.
Britannica mentions that it was a blue wrapping rather than
the paper itself, like some sort of jacket. I guess
I'm picturing a file folder that's bloom. I don't know
(09:00):
what a really. A rapping is that accompanied printed documents
in lady teenth century, and there is some indication that
it may actually be connected to that version of blue
we were talking about earlier, that Rye Baldry. You know
that body, naughty kind of behavior, humor or humor. You
know things that you might have read about in the
(09:21):
Canterbury Tales, for example, adultery, punication, blasphemy, alcohol consumption, chewing
tobacco and listen to the violet listening to the violin.
Uh yeah, the movie Footloose is about blue laws. Uh.
(09:43):
It definitely has a blue law vibe to it. I
guess dirty dancing too. We gotta thank Sarah L. Ziegler
over at Middle Tennessee State University. Shout out to you
Middle Tennessee for some of the alternate versions there. We
may not know the um specifics of how blue laws
became a thing in the United States or the etymology thereof,
(10:07):
but we do sure as heck know what they did.
They were pretty strict, and like you said, they their
their whole thing was to preserve what they saw is
the religious sanctity of Sunday and forbid people from working
(10:29):
on this holy day. Now, of course, a lot of
other like other religions and belief systems, have similar proscriptions,
you know, like U in Judaism, there's the idea that
one is not supposed to work on Saturday, right on
the Sabbath. So this didn't come out of a vacuum,
(10:49):
is what I'm saying. No, but it also is like
imposing it on everyone, whether here Christian or not pre
separation of church state. Well, fair enough, you're right. This
is the the mid to late seventeen hundreds. So yeah,
it was also up to the determination of a judge
without a trial by jury, as to whether someone was
(11:12):
guilty of breaking these these uh these blue laws. M m. Yeah,
things like married persons must live together or be imprisoned,
just the only options. Yeah, you would, just I guess
you would. I'm picturing some guy just saying I need
to be at work a lot, or I need to
(11:34):
be on traveling for work a lot. Maybe this is
the origin of the traveling salesman in the US. As
long as you check back in once a month, did
you still technically living together? That is my determination? As
the judge of this case. But also, yeah, what about
people living together unmarried? But that was frowned upon too, Yes,
that was that was most verily frowned upon and did
(12:01):
not create a smiling countenance. And the judge. Uh, why
am I picturing this judge like a Puritans at and
just like a perma very beginning of the witch, the
beginning of the witch. Maybe in the crucible too. Uh.
There are some things that are pretty bothersome. The selectman
on finding children ignorant may take them away from their
(12:24):
parents and put them into better hands at the expense
of the parents. Whoa what? What are what better hands?
Like an orphanage? What? What does the ignorant mean? At
this time? Ignorant might mean that they cannot quote specific
passages of the Bible. Right, oh my, this is so.
Your three year old has not memorized the entirety of
(12:46):
the Book of Matthew. It will be fifty gold pieces
for us to take your child away, or or you
are a witch. No, I really do want to This
is obviously for another time. But dig deeper and find
out what better hands met Probably did the care of
the church to something. I bet it was all about
religious education to your point, Bett, Yeah, yeah, because these
(13:09):
were uh you know, in a very real way. The
colonies were theocracies at times, right, at least the way
the government worked at the local community community government. Well again,
we see we do see that in the Witch, you know,
the very first scene. It's like about well actually, which
is kind of funny because, uh, the characters in the
Witch or the Father figure, he was too hardcore, right,
(13:32):
so devout that he was too devout for he was
too pure for the Puritans. And they were like, yo,
you gotta tone it down a notch for get out.
They have the chilly they asked him to take uh,
they asked him for a vibe check and just to
be more chill. And he says, you have no chi. Yeah,
he said, you guys are basically idolatrousity. We never find
(13:57):
out the specific doctrine which he objects, but it is
very strongly implied that it's a small thing. But he's
so crazy about it. He's disrupting the community. He's the
problem exactly, like like he's shouting at people in the
streets and again you gotta I mean, wow, how hardcore
must you be for like the Puritan faith, not to
(14:19):
be hardcore enough for you. I bet it was one
of those things, like from them that excellent book A
Year of Living Biblically. I bet it was one of
those things of wearing like two different fabrics at the
same time. You know, one of those Old Testament things
that a lot of people have ignored, the hair start
kind of which is the scratchy garment that causes you
(14:39):
to constantly be uncomfortable. Therefore, in uh, in deference to God,
and to be fair, that guy had great hair in
the which was he a great person? No, but he
did have good hair. Uh. So let's be honest. Despite
the fact that a lot of people associate blue laws
to with more conservative areas of the American South, the
(15:03):
reality is that laws like this existed in all the colonies,
all the all the European colonies in the United States,
and most of them just fell out of use after
the American Revolution. People have bigger fish to fry, etcetera, etcetera.
But blue laws, specifically the ones regarding the sale of alcohol,
(15:30):
still stayed on the books until some of them until
the twenty one century, and their influence persisted. That's from Britannica.
But we should also we should also say one thing Britannic.
It doesn't mention just to keep it with everybody. There
are a lot of laws quote unquote on the books
(15:51):
don't don't matter and are never enforced, and some of
those are literally is kind of like oversights. It's not
like anyone's like, we gotta keep these round because we
care so much if people, you know, use profanity in
front of a lady or spit on the sidewalk, you know,
but it just ends up. They just kind of gets
they stick around. We know, the wheels of government move
(16:11):
pretty slowly, and sometimes things just kind of if they're
not applicable, then there's really no concern about leaving them.
But that part of the Blue Laws certainly was applicable
because it specifically refers to a detail of commerce. You know,
something you can and can't sell and when you can
and can't sell it. So even if it was a
bit of a remnant, I think, I mean, it was
(16:32):
obviously left quite intentionally. You know, there was thought behind
leaving that one. Yeah, yeah, And that's you know, that's
a really good point because I think almost everybody in
the United States has a couple of examples of laws
that used to be on the books and maybe still
are but aren't enforced personally. For me, I like the
(16:55):
ones that are so specific it sounds like it happened
once and eat people out, like one guy was a
jerk about it. In Missouri for a long time there
was this. It might still be a law that specifically
says you can't drive down the highway with an uncaged
bear in your car. The bear. Yeah, so this um,
(17:17):
and then you have to share the road with cows
and places like Farmington, Illinois. Oh and uh in Orlando, Florida,
this is true. Uh, if you park your elephant at
a parking meter, you still have to pay. Uh. You
still have to pay the fee the way you would
for a car or any other obviously, so somebody did
(17:40):
someone go to court for that. That's just a matter
of decorum, if you ask me. That's a decent manners. Yeah,
and I we'll get to some more of these later.
But there are still some absurd blue law type deals
that remain on the books. And one of I think
my favorite ones is that like in Wisconsin, like all
cheese is required to be delightful or something like that. Max,
I think you found this one what was it? Oh,
(18:02):
giving credence to its reputation as America's dairyland, wisconsinin law
demands that all cheese and butter be produced in the
state to be highly pleasing. Oh no, oh boy, that
you know, and that was terrible news for the Ship
Cheese Company of Wisconsin or for Blue Cheese. Am I right?
(18:26):
I love but you know, people have a real ax
to grind with Blue Cheese. Look, if you're eating cheese,
you've already crossed the lie certainly and become an ally
of bacteria. Why not go further into the darkness? You know,
see what lies beyond. I'm honest. Ranch dressing on wings,
(18:46):
that's like the training wheels. Blue Cheese is doing it right. Yes,
I gotta say, for a guy who doesn't personally like Ranch,
I know way too much about its origins, but it's
yeah to teach their own. I agree with you, though, Max.
I'm team Blue Cheese is the inferior dipper, no question there.
We're gonna have a Ranch episode now coming up. Oh yeah,
(19:08):
I could do that with im. I'll be here, I'll
be your Ranch hand. Oh there, it is worth it.
We know about We've talked about Ranch at let do
shout out to our friends over on saver any recent
lare in vogel bomb, which I have them back over
at some point. Yeah. So, okay, there's a big question
(19:29):
here blue laws, which again the alcohol part particularly became
important as there were temperance movements and this prohibition is
going into into and out of fashion. One of the
big questions about blue laws pertains to the First Amendment.
Everybody knows. Everybody should know that in the US, the
(19:52):
First Amendment specifically specifically states you cannot make laws about
an establishment of religion. That's our separation of church and state.
For anybody. Well, this an audio podcast, you can't see
I did a really cool hand thing. But it's it's
(20:13):
a magic trick for people as simple as me. Good
and here is the church and then when you look through, yeah,
it looks like something no body there, We go and
Max you're doing You're you're cleaning the calling hr of
your thumb and point of doing something that Blue laws
would very much not allow me to do, especially not
(20:35):
on the Sabbath. Yeah. So that's the problem, right, designating
Sunday as a sabbath or holy day and restricting what
people can do on that day, even if they don't
subscribe to that religion. Uh. It means that sometimes people
say arguably favoring, but I think it just it bluntly means,
(20:58):
and no uncertain terms, that these laws are imposing Christianity
on other belief systems, on people with other belief systems.
That's right. I go back to my very reasonable need
to fix the hole in the wall before my landlord
got a gander at it, and I could argue that
this adherence to to this you know, religious practice that
(21:21):
I do not subscribe to, was f and my my
s up. Yeah. And so these laws constantly come up
in court, right, Various people have a problem with them,
and their problems are valid. So you'll see these things,
sometimes called Sunday laws, always be the subject of various
(21:41):
court cases throughout the eighteen hundreds, the first half of
the nineteen hundreds, until the Supreme Court weighs in in
the nineteen sixty one case called McGowan versus Maryland. What
was going on with this one? A good question, indeed,
and when we will do our best to answer right now.
The Supreme Court UH, in fact, ruled on McGowan versus
(22:04):
Maryland in nineteen sixty one. UH. The case was filed
by employees of a giant like big box type department
store UM who were fined for doing their job. And
this is very similar to my situation, UH, selling things
like floor wax and toys on Sunday and violation of
(22:24):
state law. And almost like accused it of being a
recruitment tool in a way, you know, because if you
can't work on Sunday, if you're prevented from applying your
trade at the department store wherever, I guess you might
as well join the club, you know. And it really
did start to feel like there was a certain sense
(22:44):
of bothering going on, yeah, or proselytization using the power
of the state, if not discrimination. And so the court said, Okay,
we get it, We're cool. Don't be fooled by the
robes and the fact that we're functionally bring wraiths. They said,
(23:05):
we get it. Uh. Yes, there are religious origins to
these laws, but we think they're constitutional because a lot
of the religious language has been removed from the statute.
The only thing left is a single reference to Sunday
as the Lord's Day, and a lot of restrictions have
(23:25):
been lifted and so Chief Justice at the time, Earl Warreds,
says these laws are permissible regulations under the state's police
power to regulate quote, in the interest of public health, safety, welfare,
and morals. And he said, they said, this is not
(23:47):
to make you all obey Christianity or a certain flavor thereof.
This is to make sure everybody takes a day off
from the grind, to relax, to be mindful, to hang
with their family. Well, then call it that right and
make it make it be be able to be spent
however you wish, or whatever day you want, or whatever
(24:11):
day you want. Yeah, but again, you know, don't get
me started on like the work week and and and
work life balance and more or day work week. The
experiments are growing very well. Yeah, I mean it makes sense.
But again this is because my point is that this, uh,
this opinion is disingenuous. I yeah, I agree with you.
(24:34):
I think it is. I think it's a rationalization and
it's an unnecessary fig leaf because it's not fooling anybody
either at the time. You know what I mean, Um,
I could it's under there, Yeah, I can know what's
under that leaf. Right, I could break out my weed
your board and attempt to speak with Justice Warren, but
(24:58):
I'm not going to do it because I'm sure there's
a blue law against it. You played yourself, judge anybody? Yeah,
I mean, and you know, can you Weigi board? Is
it a toy or is it a tool of Satan
or exactly? That is very unclear. Um, people are really
(25:19):
freaked out by Wegi boards. I had a guy come
to my house to do some repair work and I
have a Wegi board Welcome Matt. He like didn't step
on it. He was like, he looked at me. He
wasn't joking. He was like, that's just scary. And I
was like, oh, it's just for Halloween. He kind of
thought it was cool. We left things like it's not cool, man.
He was like, almost didn't come into my house. I
(25:39):
think those are I think those are cool, but also
I'm very skeptical about it. So to me, it's like,
look in the science, Uh, people put a lot of
staking them. If there's one way to finally transcend the
mortal veil and communicate with the dead, is it a
mass marketed board game by Hasbro? Is it? Is it? Really?
(26:02):
Tell us if we're wrong? Anyway? They buy the patent
from by the way, say right right, in the form
of Parker Brothers, they inherited it. But okay, uh, you
may be living in a part of the world where
these laws were formerly on the books, and hopefully you're
already thinking about your favorite ridiculous laws of yesteryear, but
(26:25):
you also might live in a place where they're still around.
The very last statewide full day restriction on any kind
of commerce was in North Dakota. It was repealed in
nineteen one, And for a bit of perspective, I think
we should add here the population of North Dakota is
(26:49):
still in the entire state, it's still under eight hundred
thousand people, so very few people, relatively speaking, were affected
by that. The only place, there's one place in the
US where I guess you could call it general retail,
is still banned on Sundays, it's Bergen County, New Jersey,
(27:10):
and that's because the local community likes it that way.
In the same way that you'll still see maybe not
just in the South, but definitely and in some parts
of the South near US things called dry counties, which
just you know, supersedes the whole blue law thing entirely,
and it's makes it you can't buy liquor at all,
uh there. But usually the workaround and that is that
(27:33):
you just drive into the next county and buy it
and bring it back. We always started this and we
rent like cabins. You know, it's a blue ridge and
get one of those cool cabins, and you gotta get
your booze on the way and make sure you stock
up because you're not gonna be getting anymore without driving,
you know, maybe you know ten or fifteen months dry counties. Yeah,
do you jump in here. This actually reminds me of
(27:54):
our infamous cabin tripsle I remember one year we went
up and the day after we when he got launch
and we couldn't get, you know, anything to drink. The
year later we were like getting flights of whiskey because well,
I think we were a little closer though we had
we had passed out of the Dry county at that point.
That's the really good one. And by the way, we
(28:16):
need to we need to revitalize that tradition with the
ridiculous history family, you know, with with with with you
and me and and and my lady friend and Ben
and and his lady friend and will you know Casey Pegram.
Jonathan Strickling can even comets up together. He's still banned
from a couple of counties. And I say this as
(28:38):
his friend. He earned it and he knows what he did.
So all cabins, he's he's that he can't you mentioned
that guy's name in a cabin rental situation, will they
will ban flip. It's like a switch is flipped. It's
it's the first time I have ever recognized someone from
a wanted poster at a cracker barrel. Yeah, it was
(29:00):
even an old timey and CPIA toned and having kind
of brand looking font on it. He's you know, Jonathan
does listen to the show occasionally. I think when people
tell him that we're mentioning. Well, we did suggest last
week that if we were caught on a desert island
or on a boat, we would eat him first. That
was my idea. Yeah, it will keep him around, just
(29:23):
for that reason. I stand by that. I don't find
that to be that controversial of a statement either. I
think most people would agree. Jonathan is very healthy too.
You know, he's a piscutaria, so we're getting a lot
of bang for our buck. Definitely, Okay, so you know
(29:46):
it tastes like shrimp. We gotta stuff speculating about catabalism
on our co workers. This is even worse that you're
a little hand signal mix hr again. Yeah, I think
I got him on s pizza column. Let them know
our our prov comedy is a plus. So its two blue.
It's two blue. It's our blue period, we said at
(30:09):
the top of the show. In a lot of you know,
a lot of states, people still enact blue laws. That's
why Bergen County is still doing this kind of stuff,
because the local city and county governments wants this thing.
The communities want it. And in the twenty one century,
you'll see that a lot of states that historically had
(30:31):
these Sunday laws started to just kind of dial them back.
And some of that is due to rising secularism, but
more of it is due to economic concerns. There's more competition,
people are busier, or they feel they feel busier, and
a lot of businesses can't just simply cannot afford to
(30:53):
lose a full day of potential profit. I mean, speaking
of potential profit, I like and how how are we
ever going to forget your Chick fil a On Sunday,
Uh to the tune of Crossroads by Harmony. But like,
that's a company that is so committed to the bit
that that think of the millions they're leading on the table,
(31:14):
millions not being open on Sunday on Sunday on chicken
sandwich cambo, cambo camboo chicken sandwich cambo. It's very good appropriate.
But here's the thing though, here's the thing we have
sort of not glossed over. But I think we've been
(31:34):
somewhat anti these types of puritanical laws affecting people what
you can and can't do. Nobody likes to be told
what to do. But we've kind of been neglecting is
that there's a point we touched on earlier that this
is sort of a way of codifying like a separation
from the work week. And you know, in Europe, for example,
(31:57):
nothing's open on the weekend. Nothing. But it's not really
a religious thing. Maybe it is, you know, I mean
obviously you know Europe is very steeped in in in
religion as well, you know historically, um so maybe maybe
I'm I just don't know the history of that, but
I feel like it is ultimately kind of a good thing.
To have a day where you can't do all the things.
(32:17):
We've grown into a society where you can have all
the things all the time, and it's just kind of go, go,
go all the time. And I do appreciate anything that
kind of forces you to take a step back and chill.
I just don't like that it's associated with a religious practice.
I think it should just be like, hey, this is
(32:38):
a day of rest. But also it becomes sticky because
then you're telling people who who maybe need the money,
you know, for for that day that you have to close.
And that's that could be an issue. But in Europe
they've just been doing it for so long that it
just is how it is. Also in Europe, people who
workers rights are much more robust people. Hey, a living wage,
(33:02):
you know, in the United States, this is an a
in the In the United States, if you take out
all the pr spin, people are dying because they are poor.
The ways to treat them exists, the ways to extend
their life and quality of life exists. But due to
the way that this country approaches the idea of medicine
(33:26):
and health, which is very much not the way Europe
approaches it or most other developed countries, due to that,
people die. If you can live in a world where
you are paid a basic living wage and you will
not confront bankruptcy if you have any medical mishap, then
you have the you have more of a luxury you know,
(33:49):
to to think about work life balance and that's very important. Uh.
This is something that I think all of us Max
No Nola myself have thought about as well at length,
and we hope you give it some consideration too. Now
we're talking about how blue laws have a positive aspect um.
Maybe union certainly thought so. Right, Yeah, let's go to
(34:12):
uh Lyman Stone out of box who wrote this great
piece why we need blue laws, the religious tradition that
sanctifies life outside of work. Now, where does the union
angle come in here? Well, first of all, I mean,
you know, we all know that unions are a big
fan of of of mandated breaks, whether they be food
breaks or even smoke breaks and things like that. You know,
(34:34):
if you're working on a union film, for example, you
know you're you're you're mandated to take certain breaks. And
in the UK it's much more adhered to here. Unless
you have a union rep on site, you're probably not
always gonna get your you know, you're a little your
little fifteen or twenty or whatever. Also true, so you
(34:56):
could argue that again there's another example of like the
US not really caring about people quite as much as
some other countries. But the Supreme Court has ruled over
and over again, uh and even pretty recently that this
is these are constitutional. It's okay for the state to
prevent commercial activities even if the days are religious, because
(35:20):
who's to say, kind of right, like you can't prove
you know, Sunday is the last day of the week, right,
technically it's the first day of the week. That always
kind of messes me up, um, But you know, it
just makes sense that the day of rest would be
at the end or beginning of the work week. So
at this point, it feels like the religious argument has
sort of gone out the window. And that's more what
(35:41):
the unions lean on, uh, is that it it imposes
a day where you can't force people to work. But
that's not really what they do either. It depends on
what union you're talking about, Like unions for you know,
the film workers, again, they're working on Sunday if the
(36:01):
job requires them. Like you said, Teamster has been, they're
working whatever day. You know, this is awesome. Yeah, no,
it's a good point. It's a good point. Well, and
taking it past um, past just production to unions in general.
There's something that a lot of people might not think
(36:22):
about in the US because it's not treated with the importance.
That deserves the right to as symbol the right to
assemble in a group. Unions like blue laws because it
carves out this time for people to not have to work,
right and it ensures that people have as a group
(36:46):
time off together. The state cannot force you to go
to a church or a community meeting, and it can't
force you to hang out with your parents, you're in laws, god,
you know, but it can force your employer to shut
their doors for a day at least certain types of employers.
(37:08):
But they could also they could technically pursue it further
if the state, So it shows so this so this
creates this ability to have free time, which is at
a premium often in the United States. So you could
so this ups the odds that people might invest in
(37:31):
labor movements. So where might invest in brainstorming with their
colleagues about better representation and more rights and so on.
It reminds me of the big kerfuffle about voting in
the United States. And again this isn't a political point,
but which day of the week they hold it? Are
remember making making it a holiday? Right, It's weird that
(37:52):
it's not a holiday. It's weird that um, so many
powerful interests have spent so much time making a pain
in the butt to vote and making it archaic. Uh,
it's ah, this is for stuff they don't want you
to know. But I positive there's a reason anyway. So well,
in the Vox article to UM, it's pointed out that
(38:15):
one other reason that unions like the Blue laws is
that there is a religious part because they feel like
religion assembling at church and all that stuff. It encourages
kind of community strengthening, you know, and and and encourages
civic behavior like voting because the labor unions obviously also
have political interests and this they would see this as
(38:39):
a way of getting people on board because if you're
surrounded by other people that have like minds, uh, you
can kind of influence them if they're sort of in
a voting group kind of you know. Yeah, and really,
if you boil it down into the most concentrated terms,
it's drawing a line in the sand, and it's say, hey, employers,
(39:01):
you can't have all of my time, right you can't.
You can't have the mission creep where all of a
sudden there's no real time off and the email always
has to stay odd. Which is why France actually passed
the law not too long ago which said France passed
the law that said your employer cannot require you to
(39:23):
answer emails past a certain time. Let me get the well, okay,
you know, of course, again, because we're from America, I
immediately roll my eyes at that, as though it were
completely unenforceable. But I suppose if there really were a law,
you could in another country where labor is more respected
or labors are more respected, really follow up on that.
(39:45):
But here I just don't buy it. I just don't
buy the It would have to happeniation, you know what
I mean, There would be retaliation unless it was enforced
law that happened all at once. The French law which
came out I think in required all companies with more
than fifty employees to establish hours when staff should not
send her answer emails, generally after six pm. What a
(40:09):
world not gonna happen in the United States. But the
United States is home to a lot of ridiculous laws.
We promised it at the top. You know, you guys
know it's one of my favorite things. Uh, let's run
through a couple. No, no, I think you already. We
already mentioned Wisconsin. Uh maybe we can just jump around,
(40:34):
jump around, jump around. Uh, jump up, jump up and
get down. Yes. Uh, I'm gonna add one that I
don't I don't know if this is on the list,
but Florida does apparently, or had for a long time,
prohibited unmarried women from parachuting on Sundays. What happened that
Sunday that made that a law? What kind of Helen
(40:56):
of Troy launched a thousand parachutes one Sunday afternoon. I
don't know. It just makes me think back to the
story we did about inventors dying in midflight. Maybe they
just didn't want to see that happen. Helen I Tampa
love it. No, no, no, it's great. Um, and we
you know, I think I indicated that this was a
type of blue law. It's not. These are just general
(41:18):
weirdo laws. But one about cheese being delicious? Uh, that
doesn't even make sense as a blue level. We've got more. Uh,
let's see, We've got uh. In California, it is illegal
to build, maintain, or use a nuclear weapon with only
within Chico, though, oh yeah, anywhere anywhere else game Uh,
(41:41):
let's see. Uh. This next one reads like a freaking
tongue twister rhyme. A pickle cannot be sold unless it bounces.
According to an i d for the article. This law
became a necessity after two scheming pickle packers tried to
sell pickles unfit for human consumption on the slide. Oh,
those pest pickle packers selling poor quality pickles to unsuspecting pedestrians. Yeah,
(42:08):
and you can't be uh, you can't fake butter in Iowa.
Anybody who tries to pass off butter or any kind
of it's butter o leo or oleo margarine as real
butter as the real McCoy can spend thirty days in
the clink and get fine six hundred and twenty five dollars.
(42:32):
When from the land of our buddy a how uh
Andrew howard Um shout out to you, friend of the show,
it is forbidden to post advertisements. Are mains rights from
also our buddy Stephen Kings. Actual buddies are buddy in literature.
I think he follows me on Twitter. I can't remember.
That's cool Twitter? Does he really? I didn't know? Uh.
(42:55):
It is forbidden, in fact to post advertisements on another
person's tombstone in this in of Wells just well post
no bills, indeed, totally fine in bangor Main, so I
bet there's some clever advertisements. In Washington State, it is
illegal to poach a sasquatch into specific counties in Scamania County,
(43:20):
which does sound like a compilation of Scott Band tracks.
In Skamania County, it's been a felony since nineteen sixty nine.
And in Whatcom County spelled what dot com or spelled
like what dot com without the period. Uh, the entirety
of the county is an official sasquatch protection and refuge area.
(43:44):
That's right. The US has a big Bigfoot sanctuary sanctuary
for um, a life form that has not been conclusively
proven to exist. It is really sweet, you know, I mean,
I like the Russian offers this one. It is if
big Foot exists, they will be part of an endangered species.
It's I like it. I like it don't change Washington. Yeah, yeah,
(44:08):
that's very I like the freshman in the dorm awake
at three am energy of that, Like, hey, guys, you
know the thing is this was real. He's like endangered
bro hands off, hands off the Sasquatch, our buddy David
Bakara Again. Blue Ridge just comes up a second time,
(44:32):
Dry County, but home of the what is it called
Destination Bigfoot Expedition Expedition Bigfoot an incredible, very high quality
Bigfoot themed museum. Um really really seriously, it's like Epcot
level cool. And of course, as we said before, folks,
we can't wait to hear your favorite former laws or
(44:56):
laws that are still on the books and just not
enforce I think at least, well, I think it's fair
to say the three of us, your faithful correspondence, came
into today's episode with a bit of an ax to
grind against Blue Laws, and we didn't know whether it
was legal to grind an act in our county, but
(45:17):
we did in our respective counties. But I think we
all came away with more of an appreciation of the
positive side of this kind of legislation, as flawed as
it might be, and we hope that you enjoyed it. Uh,
you can't wait to hear from you. Thanks as always
to our superproducer, our research associate for today's show, In fact,
(45:38):
Mr Max Williams. Yes, indeed this was a doozy Max
great finds all around. Also hughes thanks to uh Chris
frostiodis here in spirit. He's Jeff Codes, Jonathan Stricklin, Alex
Williams who composed our theme. Yeah, big thanks to the
Cohen Brothers. Big thanks to Javier Bardem the Cocaine Bear.
(45:58):
Big thanks to Giant Robots, whether Gundam or Yeager's. You know,
I was just thinking, I really wish there would be
a third Pacific Rim film. I know it's not you know,
it's it's not exactly intellectual, but was there a second one?
There was specific rim uprising bro I didn't see it.
Was it? Was it worth it? Yeah? It wasn't Del
(46:21):
Toro though I don't believe Charlie Day is uh in
it again. I don't want to spoil it too much,
but uh, yeah, it's worth of the time. They got
new robots. New robots do kaiju. That's what I'm about
A fake face to make it that thing happen and
uh no, thanks to you. Let's keep going until there
(46:43):
is a law banning podcast Indeed, we'll see you next time, folks.
For more podcasts for My Heart Radio, visit the I
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
(00:27):
back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always
so much for tuning in. This is Ridiculous Histories blue
period sort of and there's no law against that. Does
that mean we're gonna swear? Does that mean we're gonna
get We're gonna we're gonna tell dirty jokes. We might
go some naughty limericks. Perhaps we'll see what our super producer,
(00:50):
Mr Max Williams, let's sneak through the edit. Uh, you're nol.
I'm saying, I love I love that you're you're referencing
going blue. Can you tell everybody a little bit what
that is? They may not know. I I forget what
the actual etymology or the you know, providences of the expression.
But it's an old timey comedy term referring to doing
(01:13):
raunchy material. Um, I don't. I can't, for the life
of me remember where the blue part comes from. But
today we're talking about some other kind of blue parts
blue laws. Uh, and we do know where the blue
and that comes from, and we're gonna get to it.
It's stupider than you might think. And I always assume
that blue laws were maybe in some way connected to
(01:33):
the concept of like blue being a term for bad
or like you know, naughtiness and in sin and debauchery.
But um not the case, As is often the case,
It's something much more innocuous and kind of dull. But
the story itself neither innocuous nor dull. Right, Yeah, no
blue laws. If you are unfamiliar with the term, it
(01:56):
may be that you live outside of the United States,
or maybe you don't live in an area where blue
laws are a thing. But blue laws are often seen
as these kind of puritanical stipulations, right, these policies that
are meant to target vices or leisure or just having
(02:19):
a good time. And a lot of what we would
call blue laws or some descendant thereof, are still on
the books today. No full disclosure. The three of us
usually record ridiculous history from the fair metropolis of Atlanta, Georgia,
which is in the southeastern United States, which has a
(02:40):
little bit of a reputation both in our country and abroad.
It doesn't. Before we get into that reputation, I just
have to point out I was looking for where blue
comedy came from, and it's associated with the word rybaldry.
You know, the rybald humor is another word referring to
kind of body or or unchy comedy. And on the
(03:01):
Wikipedia page for it, here's a picture of just a
man like in a woman like you see on a
on a bathroom door, like the kind of like little
stick figure, and one has a heart on the woman's chest,
and you know, there's a heart on the man's uh
swimsuit area. And I guess that is that as a
graphic depicting what a sexual joke might represent. It's like
(03:23):
you're talking about it up here down there. That's best
ryeball baby, that's blue. And we don't go blue in
this town. And and that's the case. We we do
go blue though in in many towns in Georgia these
laws a lot of them have been phased out. But
I had an encounter myself that I think would be
a good tone setter here. It was on a Sunday.
I don't remember how it happened, but a wall got
(03:47):
punched through in a rental property. I don't remember exactly
what led to that, but we all of a sudden
needed to fix it very quickly, and so we went
to Walmart, which was open, and we made it all
the way to the checkout and we had like some
some you know wall fixed and stuff, and they wouldn't
sell it to us on a Sunday. And I'm like,
(04:09):
wait a minute, what I don't understand. And they had
to explain to me what blue laws were, because it's
not just alcohol prohibition on right, which a lot of
people assume as as I did. It's it's it's all
kinds of other stuff. Is anything that would cause you
to not treat the Lord's Day as a proper day
of rest and repose and you know, holiness, and uh,
(04:33):
this coming from a very Christian culture at the time,
they thought of Sunday as the Lord's Day. That's right,
that's right, as opposed to Saturday. But the Saturday the
true Sabbathist. So also one other note about blue laws.
Uh we did find the etymology there. Well, I was
(04:53):
looking the same thing. The story that you hear most often.
This guy named Max Miller, like comedian from the very
like from the early nineteen hundreds. He apparently made the
phrase up because part of his act was that you
have two books, one that was a white book. This
is the family friendly jokes right, and when there was
(05:14):
a Blue Book and he would ask the audience to
choose which jokes they wanted to hear. I don't know
if that's true. And then it became the Kelly Blue
Book from there on and it had just you know,
resale prices for cars and the rest was history. And
those are hilarious again today you see comedy is cyclical. Yeah,
because they're outlandishly incorrect. No one's getting anywhere close to
(05:36):
anything approximating a Kelly Blue Book value on reselling your car.
But I'm glad we cleared that up. That's helpful. Um,
back to the Blue Laws, Where did that name come from?
Why don't we just get that out of the way
since we're talking about the origins of blue things. Yeah,
so this is actually an old idea. It's not. It's
not as if a bunch of Puritans in the US
(05:58):
just had a bad day. There were restrictions of this
sort all the way back to the twelve hundreds in England,
and colonial settlements were sort of redoing or adapting similar
laws in their own time, and then the early Blue
Laws as a result in New England were pretty extensive.
(06:21):
They banned all sorts of stuff. I love you to
point out it's not just alcohol, it's hunting, wearing shirt
sleeves that are overly lacy, and so on. And then
these laws got kind of grandfathered in. They became legacy
laws as the Union and the United States became a thing.
We think the name itself to your question, uh, most
(06:43):
likely derives from a guy named Samuel A. Peters who
wrote a General History of Connecticut in seventeen eighty one.
Spoiler it's not a huge, you know, edge of your
seat kind of kind of book, but the way for
the movie to come out, I hear the adaptation's gonna slap.
I think they got um Yahoo serious out of retirement
(07:06):
for this one. And if they can make a movie
about the cocaine Bear, I think they can probably make
a movie on Samuel A. Peter's General History of Connecticut,
right right. It's it's a it's inspired by it's a
LuSE reworking. There are a lot more robots uh in
the script, but hopefully yeah, well, I mean that guy
is blowing up his career. Is he's the next Yianu? Honestly?
(07:30):
Um so this in this thing, the General History of Connecticut,
the author claims to list all the Sabbath regulations of
New Haven, Connecticut, and the book itself. This is how
simple it is, is printed on blue paper. But that
that isn't a hundred percent the proven origin, right, There's
(07:55):
some other accounts and before less anyone uh pounce on me.
I was half joking when I referred to Saturday as
the true Sabbath, because obviously different religions recognized the Sabbath
on different days. It is the biblical Sabbath, Saturday. Yeah,
I think we I hope that everybody knows we're joking
(08:18):
on things like these. There's I mean, it's just gonna
ruin our fun if we have to say there probably
aren't a bunch of robots in a History of Connecticut.
In the film adaptation, which is by the Coen Brothers,
and they do have Javier Bardine playing at least one robot.
(08:39):
There's at least one robot integral to the plow. I
would have cast him as the cocaine bear personally, but
that's just me by some accounts. Yes, you are correct.
Britannica mentions that it was a blue wrapping rather than
the paper itself, like some sort of jacket. I guess
I'm picturing a file folder that's bloom. I don't know
(09:00):
what a really. A rapping is that accompanied printed documents
in lady teenth century, and there is some indication that
it may actually be connected to that version of blue
we were talking about earlier, that Rye Baldry. You know
that body, naughty kind of behavior, humor or humor. You
know things that you might have read about in the
(09:21):
Canterbury Tales, for example, adultery, punication, blasphemy, alcohol consumption, chewing
tobacco and listen to the violet listening to the violin.
Uh yeah, the movie Footloose is about blue laws. Uh.
(09:43):
It definitely has a blue law vibe to it. I
guess dirty dancing too. We gotta thank Sarah L. Ziegler
over at Middle Tennessee State University. Shout out to you
Middle Tennessee for some of the alternate versions there. We
may not know the um specifics of how blue laws
became a thing in the United States or the etymology thereof,
(10:07):
but we do sure as heck know what they did.
They were pretty strict, and like you said, they their
their whole thing was to preserve what they saw is
the religious sanctity of Sunday and forbid people from working
(10:29):
on this holy day. Now, of course, a lot of
other like other religions and belief systems, have similar proscriptions,
you know, like U in Judaism, there's the idea that
one is not supposed to work on Saturday, right on
the Sabbath. So this didn't come out of a vacuum,
(10:49):
is what I'm saying. No, but it also is like
imposing it on everyone, whether here Christian or not pre
separation of church state. Well, fair enough, you're right. This
is the the mid to late seventeen hundreds. So yeah,
it was also up to the determination of a judge
without a trial by jury, as to whether someone was
(11:12):
guilty of breaking these these uh these blue laws. M m. Yeah,
things like married persons must live together or be imprisoned,
just the only options. Yeah, you would, just I guess
you would. I'm picturing some guy just saying I need
to be at work a lot, or I need to
(11:34):
be on traveling for work a lot. Maybe this is
the origin of the traveling salesman in the US. As
long as you check back in once a month, did
you still technically living together? That is my determination? As
the judge of this case. But also, yeah, what about
people living together unmarried? But that was frowned upon too, Yes,
that was that was most verily frowned upon and did
(12:01):
not create a smiling countenance. And the judge. Uh, why
am I picturing this judge like a Puritans at and
just like a perma very beginning of the witch, the
beginning of the witch. Maybe in the crucible too. Uh.
There are some things that are pretty bothersome. The selectman
on finding children ignorant may take them away from their
(12:24):
parents and put them into better hands at the expense
of the parents. Whoa what? What are what better hands?
Like an orphanage? What? What does the ignorant mean? At
this time? Ignorant might mean that they cannot quote specific
passages of the Bible. Right, oh my, this is so.
Your three year old has not memorized the entirety of
(12:46):
the Book of Matthew. It will be fifty gold pieces
for us to take your child away, or or you
are a witch. No, I really do want to This
is obviously for another time. But dig deeper and find
out what better hands met Probably did the care of
the church to something. I bet it was all about
religious education to your point, Bett, Yeah, yeah, because these
(13:09):
were uh you know, in a very real way. The
colonies were theocracies at times, right, at least the way
the government worked at the local community community government. Well again,
we see we do see that in the Witch, you know,
the very first scene. It's like about well actually, which
is kind of funny because, uh, the characters in the
Witch or the Father figure, he was too hardcore, right,
(13:32):
so devout that he was too devout for he was
too pure for the Puritans. And they were like, yo,
you gotta tone it down a notch for get out.
They have the chilly they asked him to take uh,
they asked him for a vibe check and just to
be more chill. And he says, you have no chi. Yeah,
he said, you guys are basically idolatrousity. We never find
(13:57):
out the specific doctrine which he objects, but it is
very strongly implied that it's a small thing. But he's
so crazy about it. He's disrupting the community. He's the
problem exactly, like like he's shouting at people in the
streets and again you gotta I mean, wow, how hardcore
must you be for like the Puritan faith, not to
(14:19):
be hardcore enough for you. I bet it was one
of those things, like from them that excellent book A
Year of Living Biblically. I bet it was one of
those things of wearing like two different fabrics at the
same time. You know, one of those Old Testament things
that a lot of people have ignored, the hair start
kind of which is the scratchy garment that causes you
(14:39):
to constantly be uncomfortable. Therefore, in uh, in deference to God,
and to be fair, that guy had great hair in
the which was he a great person? No, but he
did have good hair. Uh. So let's be honest. Despite
the fact that a lot of people associate blue laws
to with more conservative areas of the American South, the
(15:03):
reality is that laws like this existed in all the colonies,
all the all the European colonies in the United States,
and most of them just fell out of use after
the American Revolution. People have bigger fish to fry, etcetera, etcetera.
But blue laws, specifically the ones regarding the sale of alcohol,
(15:30):
still stayed on the books until some of them until
the twenty one century, and their influence persisted. That's from Britannica.
But we should also we should also say one thing Britannic.
It doesn't mention just to keep it with everybody. There
are a lot of laws quote unquote on the books
(15:51):
don't don't matter and are never enforced, and some of
those are literally is kind of like oversights. It's not
like anyone's like, we gotta keep these round because we
care so much if people, you know, use profanity in
front of a lady or spit on the sidewalk, you know,
but it just ends up. They just kind of gets
they stick around. We know, the wheels of government move
(16:11):
pretty slowly, and sometimes things just kind of if they're
not applicable, then there's really no concern about leaving them.
But that part of the Blue Laws certainly was applicable
because it specifically refers to a detail of commerce. You know,
something you can and can't sell and when you can
and can't sell it. So even if it was a
bit of a remnant, I think, I mean, it was
(16:32):
obviously left quite intentionally. You know, there was thought behind
leaving that one. Yeah, yeah, And that's you know, that's
a really good point because I think almost everybody in
the United States has a couple of examples of laws
that used to be on the books and maybe still
are but aren't enforced personally. For me, I like the
(16:55):
ones that are so specific it sounds like it happened
once and eat people out, like one guy was a
jerk about it. In Missouri for a long time there
was this. It might still be a law that specifically
says you can't drive down the highway with an uncaged
bear in your car. The bear. Yeah, so this um,
(17:17):
and then you have to share the road with cows
and places like Farmington, Illinois. Oh and uh in Orlando, Florida,
this is true. Uh, if you park your elephant at
a parking meter, you still have to pay. Uh. You
still have to pay the fee the way you would
for a car or any other obviously, so somebody did
(17:40):
someone go to court for that. That's just a matter
of decorum, if you ask me. That's a decent manners. Yeah,
and I we'll get to some more of these later.
But there are still some absurd blue law type deals
that remain on the books. And one of I think
my favorite ones is that like in Wisconsin, like all
cheese is required to be delightful or something like that. Max,
I think you found this one what was it? Oh,
(18:02):
giving credence to its reputation as America's dairyland, wisconsinin law
demands that all cheese and butter be produced in the
state to be highly pleasing. Oh no, oh boy, that
you know, and that was terrible news for the Ship
Cheese Company of Wisconsin or for Blue Cheese. Am I right?
(18:26):
I love but you know, people have a real ax
to grind with Blue Cheese. Look, if you're eating cheese,
you've already crossed the lie certainly and become an ally
of bacteria. Why not go further into the darkness? You know,
see what lies beyond. I'm honest. Ranch dressing on wings,
(18:46):
that's like the training wheels. Blue Cheese is doing it right. Yes,
I gotta say, for a guy who doesn't personally like Ranch,
I know way too much about its origins, but it's
yeah to teach their own. I agree with you, though, Max.
I'm team Blue Cheese is the inferior dipper, no question there.
We're gonna have a Ranch episode now coming up. Oh yeah,
(19:08):
I could do that with im. I'll be here, I'll
be your Ranch hand. Oh there, it is worth it.
We know about We've talked about Ranch at let do
shout out to our friends over on saver any recent
lare in vogel bomb, which I have them back over
at some point. Yeah. So, okay, there's a big question
(19:29):
here blue laws, which again the alcohol part particularly became
important as there were temperance movements and this prohibition is
going into into and out of fashion. One of the
big questions about blue laws pertains to the First Amendment.
Everybody knows. Everybody should know that in the US, the
(19:52):
First Amendment specifically specifically states you cannot make laws about
an establishment of religion. That's our separation of church and state.
For anybody. Well, this an audio podcast, you can't see
I did a really cool hand thing. But it's it's
(20:13):
a magic trick for people as simple as me. Good
and here is the church and then when you look through, yeah,
it looks like something no body there, We go and
Max you're doing You're you're cleaning the calling hr of
your thumb and point of doing something that Blue laws
would very much not allow me to do, especially not
(20:35):
on the Sabbath. Yeah. So that's the problem, right, designating
Sunday as a sabbath or holy day and restricting what
people can do on that day, even if they don't
subscribe to that religion. Uh. It means that sometimes people
say arguably favoring, but I think it just it bluntly means,
(20:58):
and no uncertain terms, that these laws are imposing Christianity
on other belief systems, on people with other belief systems.
That's right. I go back to my very reasonable need
to fix the hole in the wall before my landlord
got a gander at it, and I could argue that
this adherence to to this you know, religious practice that
(21:21):
I do not subscribe to, was f and my my
s up. Yeah. And so these laws constantly come up
in court, right, Various people have a problem with them,
and their problems are valid. So you'll see these things,
sometimes called Sunday laws, always be the subject of various
(21:41):
court cases throughout the eighteen hundreds, the first half of
the nineteen hundreds, until the Supreme Court weighs in in
the nineteen sixty one case called McGowan versus Maryland. What
was going on with this one? A good question, indeed,
and when we will do our best to answer right now.
The Supreme Court UH, in fact, ruled on McGowan versus
(22:04):
Maryland in nineteen sixty one. UH. The case was filed
by employees of a giant like big box type department
store UM who were fined for doing their job. And
this is very similar to my situation, UH, selling things
like floor wax and toys on Sunday and violation of
(22:24):
state law. And almost like accused it of being a
recruitment tool in a way, you know, because if you
can't work on Sunday, if you're prevented from applying your
trade at the department store wherever, I guess you might
as well join the club, you know. And it really
did start to feel like there was a certain sense
(22:44):
of bothering going on, yeah, or proselytization using the power
of the state, if not discrimination. And so the court said, Okay,
we get it, We're cool. Don't be fooled by the
robes and the fact that we're functionally bring wraiths. They said,
(23:05):
we get it. Uh. Yes, there are religious origins to
these laws, but we think they're constitutional because a lot
of the religious language has been removed from the statute.
The only thing left is a single reference to Sunday
as the Lord's Day, and a lot of restrictions have
(23:25):
been lifted and so Chief Justice at the time, Earl Warreds,
says these laws are permissible regulations under the state's police
power to regulate quote, in the interest of public health, safety, welfare,
and morals. And he said, they said, this is not
(23:47):
to make you all obey Christianity or a certain flavor thereof.
This is to make sure everybody takes a day off
from the grind, to relax, to be mindful, to hang
with their family. Well, then call it that right and
make it make it be be able to be spent
however you wish, or whatever day you want, or whatever
(24:11):
day you want. Yeah, but again, you know, don't get
me started on like the work week and and and
work life balance and more or day work week. The
experiments are growing very well. Yeah, I mean it makes sense.
But again this is because my point is that this, uh,
this opinion is disingenuous. I yeah, I agree with you.
(24:34):
I think it is. I think it's a rationalization and
it's an unnecessary fig leaf because it's not fooling anybody
either at the time. You know what I mean, Um,
I could it's under there, Yeah, I can know what's
under that leaf. Right, I could break out my weed
your board and attempt to speak with Justice Warren, but
(24:58):
I'm not going to do it because I'm sure there's
a blue law against it. You played yourself, judge anybody? Yeah,
I mean, and you know, can you Weigi board? Is
it a toy or is it a tool of Satan
or exactly? That is very unclear. Um, people are really
(25:19):
freaked out by Wegi boards. I had a guy come
to my house to do some repair work and I
have a Wegi board Welcome Matt. He like didn't step
on it. He was like, he looked at me. He
wasn't joking. He was like, that's just scary. And I
was like, oh, it's just for Halloween. He kind of
thought it was cool. We left things like it's not cool, man.
He was like, almost didn't come into my house. I
(25:39):
think those are I think those are cool, but also
I'm very skeptical about it. So to me, it's like,
look in the science, Uh, people put a lot of
staking them. If there's one way to finally transcend the
mortal veil and communicate with the dead, is it a
mass marketed board game by Hasbro? Is it? Is it? Really?
(26:02):
Tell us if we're wrong? Anyway? They buy the patent
from by the way, say right right, in the form
of Parker Brothers, they inherited it. But okay, uh, you
may be living in a part of the world where
these laws were formerly on the books, and hopefully you're
already thinking about your favorite ridiculous laws of yesteryear, but
(26:25):
you also might live in a place where they're still around.
The very last statewide full day restriction on any kind
of commerce was in North Dakota. It was repealed in
nineteen one, And for a bit of perspective, I think
we should add here the population of North Dakota is
(26:49):
still in the entire state, it's still under eight hundred
thousand people, so very few people, relatively speaking, were affected
by that. The only place, there's one place in the
US where I guess you could call it general retail,
is still banned on Sundays, it's Bergen County, New Jersey,
(27:10):
and that's because the local community likes it that way.
In the same way that you'll still see maybe not
just in the South, but definitely and in some parts
of the South near US things called dry counties, which
just you know, supersedes the whole blue law thing entirely,
and it's makes it you can't buy liquor at all,
uh there. But usually the workaround and that is that
(27:33):
you just drive into the next county and buy it
and bring it back. We always started this and we
rent like cabins. You know, it's a blue ridge and
get one of those cool cabins, and you gotta get
your booze on the way and make sure you stock
up because you're not gonna be getting anymore without driving,
you know, maybe you know ten or fifteen months dry counties. Yeah,
do you jump in here. This actually reminds me of
(27:54):
our infamous cabin tripsle I remember one year we went
up and the day after we when he got launch
and we couldn't get, you know, anything to drink. The
year later we were like getting flights of whiskey because well,
I think we were a little closer though we had
we had passed out of the Dry county at that point.
That's the really good one. And by the way, we
(28:16):
need to we need to revitalize that tradition with the
ridiculous history family, you know, with with with with you
and me and and and my lady friend and Ben
and and his lady friend and will you know Casey Pegram.
Jonathan Strickling can even comets up together. He's still banned
from a couple of counties. And I say this as
(28:38):
his friend. He earned it and he knows what he did.
So all cabins, he's he's that he can't you mentioned
that guy's name in a cabin rental situation, will they
will ban flip. It's like a switch is flipped. It's
it's the first time I have ever recognized someone from
a wanted poster at a cracker barrel. Yeah, it was
(29:00):
even an old timey and CPIA toned and having kind
of brand looking font on it. He's you know, Jonathan
does listen to the show occasionally. I think when people
tell him that we're mentioning. Well, we did suggest last
week that if we were caught on a desert island
or on a boat, we would eat him first. That
was my idea. Yeah, it will keep him around, just
(29:23):
for that reason. I stand by that. I don't find
that to be that controversial of a statement either. I
think most people would agree. Jonathan is very healthy too.
You know, he's a piscutaria, so we're getting a lot
of bang for our buck. Definitely, Okay, so you know
(29:46):
it tastes like shrimp. We gotta stuff speculating about catabalism
on our co workers. This is even worse that you're
a little hand signal mix hr again. Yeah, I think
I got him on s pizza column. Let them know
our our prov comedy is a plus. So its two blue.
It's two blue. It's our blue period, we said at
(30:09):
the top of the show. In a lot of you know,
a lot of states, people still enact blue laws. That's
why Bergen County is still doing this kind of stuff,
because the local city and county governments wants this thing.
The communities want it. And in the twenty one century,
you'll see that a lot of states that historically had
(30:31):
these Sunday laws started to just kind of dial them back.
And some of that is due to rising secularism, but
more of it is due to economic concerns. There's more competition,
people are busier, or they feel they feel busier, and
a lot of businesses can't just simply cannot afford to
(30:53):
lose a full day of potential profit. I mean, speaking
of potential profit, I like and how how are we
ever going to forget your Chick fil a On Sunday,
Uh to the tune of Crossroads by Harmony. But like,
that's a company that is so committed to the bit
that that think of the millions they're leading on the table,
(31:14):
millions not being open on Sunday on Sunday on chicken
sandwich cambo, cambo camboo chicken sandwich cambo. It's very good appropriate.
But here's the thing though, here's the thing we have
sort of not glossed over. But I think we've been
(31:34):
somewhat anti these types of puritanical laws affecting people what
you can and can't do. Nobody likes to be told
what to do. But we've kind of been neglecting is
that there's a point we touched on earlier that this
is sort of a way of codifying like a separation
from the work week. And you know, in Europe, for example,
(31:57):
nothing's open on the weekend. Nothing. But it's not really
a religious thing. Maybe it is, you know, I mean
obviously you know Europe is very steeped in in in
religion as well, you know historically, um so maybe maybe
I'm I just don't know the history of that, but
I feel like it is ultimately kind of a good thing.
To have a day where you can't do all the things.
(32:17):
We've grown into a society where you can have all
the things all the time, and it's just kind of go, go,
go all the time. And I do appreciate anything that
kind of forces you to take a step back and chill.
I just don't like that it's associated with a religious practice.
I think it should just be like, hey, this is
(32:38):
a day of rest. But also it becomes sticky because
then you're telling people who who maybe need the money,
you know, for for that day that you have to close.
And that's that could be an issue. But in Europe
they've just been doing it for so long that it
just is how it is. Also in Europe, people who
workers rights are much more robust people. Hey, a living wage,
(33:02):
you know, in the United States, this is an a
in the In the United States, if you take out
all the pr spin, people are dying because they are poor.
The ways to treat them exists, the ways to extend
their life and quality of life exists. But due to
the way that this country approaches the idea of medicine
(33:26):
and health, which is very much not the way Europe
approaches it or most other developed countries, due to that,
people die. If you can live in a world where
you are paid a basic living wage and you will
not confront bankruptcy if you have any medical mishap, then
you have the you have more of a luxury you know,
(33:49):
to to think about work life balance and that's very important. Uh.
This is something that I think all of us Max
No Nola myself have thought about as well at length,
and we hope you give it some consideration too. Now
we're talking about how blue laws have a positive aspect um.
Maybe union certainly thought so. Right, Yeah, let's go to
(34:12):
uh Lyman Stone out of box who wrote this great
piece why we need blue laws, the religious tradition that
sanctifies life outside of work. Now, where does the union
angle come in here? Well, first of all, I mean,
you know, we all know that unions are a big
fan of of of mandated breaks, whether they be food
breaks or even smoke breaks and things like that. You know,
(34:34):
if you're working on a union film, for example, you
know you're you're you're mandated to take certain breaks. And
in the UK it's much more adhered to here. Unless
you have a union rep on site, you're probably not
always gonna get your you know, you're a little your
little fifteen or twenty or whatever. Also true, so you
(34:56):
could argue that again there's another example of like the
US not really caring about people quite as much as
some other countries. But the Supreme Court has ruled over
and over again, uh and even pretty recently that this
is these are constitutional. It's okay for the state to
prevent commercial activities even if the days are religious, because
(35:20):
who's to say, kind of right, like you can't prove
you know, Sunday is the last day of the week, right,
technically it's the first day of the week. That always
kind of messes me up, um, But you know, it
just makes sense that the day of rest would be
at the end or beginning of the work week. So
at this point, it feels like the religious argument has
sort of gone out the window. And that's more what
(35:41):
the unions lean on, uh, is that it it imposes
a day where you can't force people to work. But
that's not really what they do either. It depends on
what union you're talking about, Like unions for you know,
the film workers, again, they're working on Sunday if the
(36:01):
job requires them. Like you said, Teamster has been, they're
working whatever day. You know, this is awesome. Yeah, no,
it's a good point. It's a good point. Well, and
taking it past um, past just production to unions in general.
There's something that a lot of people might not think
(36:22):
about in the US because it's not treated with the importance.
That deserves the right to as symbol the right to
assemble in a group. Unions like blue laws because it
carves out this time for people to not have to work,
right and it ensures that people have as a group
(36:46):
time off together. The state cannot force you to go
to a church or a community meeting, and it can't
force you to hang out with your parents, you're in laws, god,
you know, but it can force your employer to shut
their doors for a day at least certain types of employers.
(37:08):
But they could also they could technically pursue it further
if the state, So it shows so this so this
creates this ability to have free time, which is at
a premium often in the United States. So you could
so this ups the odds that people might invest in
(37:31):
labor movements. So where might invest in brainstorming with their
colleagues about better representation and more rights and so on.
It reminds me of the big kerfuffle about voting in
the United States. And again this isn't a political point,
but which day of the week they hold it? Are
remember making making it a holiday? Right, It's weird that
(37:52):
it's not a holiday. It's weird that um, so many
powerful interests have spent so much time making a pain
in the butt to vote and making it archaic. Uh,
it's ah, this is for stuff they don't want you
to know. But I positive there's a reason anyway. So well,
in the Vox article to UM, it's pointed out that
(38:15):
one other reason that unions like the Blue laws is
that there is a religious part because they feel like
religion assembling at church and all that stuff. It encourages
kind of community strengthening, you know, and and and encourages
civic behavior like voting because the labor unions obviously also
have political interests and this they would see this as
(38:39):
a way of getting people on board because if you're
surrounded by other people that have like minds, uh, you
can kind of influence them if they're sort of in
a voting group kind of you know. Yeah, and really,
if you boil it down into the most concentrated terms,
it's drawing a line in the sand, and it's say, hey, employers,
(39:01):
you can't have all of my time, right you can't.
You can't have the mission creep where all of a
sudden there's no real time off and the email always
has to stay odd. Which is why France actually passed
the law not too long ago which said France passed
the law that said your employer cannot require you to
(39:23):
answer emails past a certain time. Let me get the well, okay,
you know, of course, again, because we're from America, I
immediately roll my eyes at that, as though it were
completely unenforceable. But I suppose if there really were a law,
you could in another country where labor is more respected
or labors are more respected, really follow up on that.
(39:45):
But here I just don't buy it. I just don't
buy the It would have to happeniation, you know what
I mean, There would be retaliation unless it was enforced
law that happened all at once. The French law which
came out I think in required all companies with more
than fifty employees to establish hours when staff should not
send her answer emails, generally after six pm. What a
(40:09):
world not gonna happen in the United States. But the
United States is home to a lot of ridiculous laws.
We promised it at the top. You know, you guys
know it's one of my favorite things. Uh, let's run
through a couple. No, no, I think you already. We
already mentioned Wisconsin. Uh maybe we can just jump around,
(40:34):
jump around, jump around. Uh, jump up, jump up and
get down. Yes. Uh, I'm gonna add one that I
don't I don't know if this is on the list,
but Florida does apparently, or had for a long time,
prohibited unmarried women from parachuting on Sundays. What happened that
Sunday that made that a law? What kind of Helen
(40:56):
of Troy launched a thousand parachutes one Sunday afternoon. I
don't know. It just makes me think back to the
story we did about inventors dying in midflight. Maybe they
just didn't want to see that happen. Helen I Tampa
love it. No, no, no, it's great. Um, and we
you know, I think I indicated that this was a
type of blue law. It's not. These are just general
(41:18):
weirdo laws. But one about cheese being delicious? Uh, that
doesn't even make sense as a blue level. We've got more. Uh,
let's see, We've got uh. In California, it is illegal
to build, maintain, or use a nuclear weapon with only
within Chico, though, oh yeah, anywhere anywhere else game Uh,
(41:41):
let's see. Uh. This next one reads like a freaking
tongue twister rhyme. A pickle cannot be sold unless it bounces.
According to an i d for the article. This law
became a necessity after two scheming pickle packers tried to
sell pickles unfit for human consumption on the slide. Oh,
those pest pickle packers selling poor quality pickles to unsuspecting pedestrians. Yeah,
(42:08):
and you can't be uh, you can't fake butter in Iowa.
Anybody who tries to pass off butter or any kind
of it's butter o leo or oleo margarine as real
butter as the real McCoy can spend thirty days in
the clink and get fine six hundred and twenty five dollars.
(42:32):
When from the land of our buddy a how uh
Andrew howard Um shout out to you, friend of the show,
it is forbidden to post advertisements. Are mains rights from
also our buddy Stephen Kings. Actual buddies are buddy in literature.
I think he follows me on Twitter. I can't remember.
That's cool Twitter? Does he really? I didn't know? Uh.
(42:55):
It is forbidden, in fact to post advertisements on another
person's tombstone in this in of Wells just well post
no bills, indeed, totally fine in bangor Main, so I
bet there's some clever advertisements. In Washington State, it is
illegal to poach a sasquatch into specific counties in Scamania County,
(43:20):
which does sound like a compilation of Scott Band tracks.
In Skamania County, it's been a felony since nineteen sixty nine.
And in Whatcom County spelled what dot com or spelled
like what dot com without the period. Uh, the entirety
of the county is an official sasquatch protection and refuge area.
(43:44):
That's right. The US has a big Bigfoot sanctuary sanctuary
for um, a life form that has not been conclusively
proven to exist. It is really sweet, you know, I mean,
I like the Russian offers this one. It is if
big Foot exists, they will be part of an endangered species.
It's I like it. I like it don't change Washington. Yeah, yeah,
(44:08):
that's very I like the freshman in the dorm awake
at three am energy of that, Like, hey, guys, you
know the thing is this was real. He's like endangered
bro hands off, hands off the Sasquatch, our buddy David
Bakara Again. Blue Ridge just comes up a second time,
(44:32):
Dry County, but home of the what is it called
Destination Bigfoot Expedition Expedition Bigfoot an incredible, very high quality
Bigfoot themed museum. Um really really seriously, it's like Epcot
level cool. And of course, as we said before, folks,
we can't wait to hear your favorite former laws or
(44:56):
laws that are still on the books and just not
enforce I think at least, well, I think it's fair
to say the three of us, your faithful correspondence, came
into today's episode with a bit of an ax to
grind against Blue Laws, and we didn't know whether it
was legal to grind an act in our county, but
(45:17):
we did in our respective counties. But I think we
all came away with more of an appreciation of the
positive side of this kind of legislation, as flawed as
it might be, and we hope that you enjoyed it. Uh,
you can't wait to hear from you. Thanks as always
to our superproducer, our research associate for today's show, In fact,
(45:38):
Mr Max Williams. Yes, indeed this was a doozy Max
great finds all around. Also hughes thanks to uh Chris
frostiodis here in spirit. He's Jeff Codes, Jonathan Stricklin, Alex
Williams who composed our theme. Yeah, big thanks to the
Cohen Brothers. Big thanks to Javier Bardem the Cocaine Bear.
(45:58):
Big thanks to Giant Robots, whether Gundam or Yeager's. You know,
I was just thinking, I really wish there would be
a third Pacific Rim film. I know it's not you know,
it's it's not exactly intellectual, but was there a second one?
There was specific rim uprising bro I didn't see it.
Was it? Was it worth it? Yeah? It wasn't Del
(46:21):
Toro though I don't believe Charlie Day is uh in
it again. I don't want to spoil it too much,
but uh, yeah, it's worth of the time. They got
new robots. New robots do kaiju. That's what I'm about
A fake face to make it that thing happen and
uh no, thanks to you. Let's keep going until there
(46:43):
is a law banning podcast Indeed, we'll see you next time, folks.
For more podcasts for My Heart Radio, visit the I
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.