Knocker-Uppers: The Human Alarm Clocks of the Industrial Age

When adapting to life as factory employees, members of the British and Irish public confronted a new, unexpected obstacle -- how do you make sure you wake up in time for your shift? While predecessors of the alarm clock existed, they were unreliable (and incredibly expensive). And so enterprising people across the land started their own wake-up service, becoming the human alarm clocks affectionately known as 'Knocker-Uppers.'

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome

(00:27):
to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always for
tuning in. Uh. Maybe a good way to start today's
show is with a question. Uh, my name's Ben, and
I'd like to know what's one of the weirdest jobs
you've ever had? Uh? My name is No. I don't
have really a weird, super weird job. I ward your
burger king once. That was kind of weird. Um, No,

(00:49):
how about you, Ben, You had some weird ones, I believe, Yeah, yeah,
I did. Uh. I've tried to think because they seemed
they seem sort of normal At the time. I had
a lot of strange writing gig. I got hired to
write horoscopes one time because I told the editor that
I didn't believe in horoscopes because I wanted to features.

(01:10):
I didn't know that. Yeah, but but but you know, freelance,
the world of freelance work, uh, in in any kind
of gig economy always seems to lead to some pretty
surreal stuff like this is something you might know as well.
Super producer Casey Pegram, I'm racking my brain for weird jobs.

(01:31):
My weird jobs were just like fixing the computer of
the old eccentric man up. And it was pretty pretty
mild and the grand scheme of things, you know, I
on those on on that tip, Casey, I did once
have to go to the actor Kevin Pollock's house to
teach him how to use dropbox. There you remember that
was maybe it was delightful. He got his bagels um

(01:54):
and was a really lovely dude. But that was definitely
one of the weirdest one off little Okay, you're gonna
go to Kevin alex housand, you're gonna teach them how
to use drop box. And these experiences are fun stories.
They're kind of a currency of conversation we can exchange
with each other later. Uh. It's something that a lot
of people are probably encountering now because the pandemic has

(02:16):
thrown everything for a loop and people are looking for
new lines of employment or new streams of income, even
if they already have a job or two. But we
wanted to take a look at another very strange job.
Today's episode is about that time that human beings were

(02:39):
alarm clocks in the UK, and Casey, you know, uh,
we we know that you boycotted the previous two episodes.
We did part of it. What was it nold was?
Was were they just too British? Was that it? Oh? Gosh, Ben,
I can't keep track of all of Casey's particularities when
it comes to things that he will not cover our

(03:03):
touch with a ten foot poll. So it's hard to
it's hard to keep trying. But it was definitely something
to do with them being British. I think it has
to be. If you guys have to ask, you'll never
know exactly. Casey on the case bringing down the hammer
of justice, on on the ridiculous historians at this at
this early morning session, Casey on the Cold Case. Geez, well,

(03:26):
to make it up to you, Casey, we have unapologetically
doubled down on things that we consider both weird and British.
That's how we do. That's I respect it. So pickture
this null uh the industrial era, right, it booms, but

(03:46):
even industrial revolution, yes, much better phrasing. Uh it booms, uh,
but it booms kind of before alarm clocks, right, yeah,
I mean alarm clocks were a thing, but it would
have been considered like a luxury item. Um and maybe
I don't know, there might have even been like distrust
in the technology, which is sort of hilarious to say,

(04:08):
and to think about the idea of an alarm clock
as being technology, but that there there it was, and
you know, either a combination of of people not trusting
them to go off properly or people not being able
to afford them, and this new kind of ushering in
of shift work. You know, it used to be like
there were no labor laws and people would just work
from sun up to sundown. And now there was a

(04:30):
little bit more of oversight of that, you know, with
the coming of the industrial revolution, um, and you know,
the idea of some semblance of workers rights and you know,
I mean, obviously it's a bit of a joke when
you really dig into it. We're gonna get into some
of that here too, but yeah, so they'd be like
the morning shift or the night shift and what have you.
And furthermore, and so people were getting up at different times.

(04:52):
It was no longer like a when the cock crowed situation.
Everyone got up, and especially of course in cities and
industrial you know, parts of of of London' this is
what we're talking about in today's episode. So they had
to have like a kind of an elegant solution, or
at least like a sort of a blunt instrument solution
that involved um introducing human beings into the place of

(05:13):
what an alarm clock would do for us today. And
this is an interesting term because this has got a
much different connotation of American slang. The idea of knocking
someone up in American parlance is much much different than
the idea of knocking someone up in this Industrial Revolution
era England. We think of it. Of course, it's kind

(05:34):
of a crass way of talking about getting somebody pregnant. Uh.
In this context, a knocker upper was just as as
you said, Ben, a human alarm clock that was hired
for a meager wage to go around and knock up uh,
sometimes more than a hundred people in a morning, to

(05:54):
make sure that they made it to the factory on time. Yeah,
that's right, because the rules had changed. The agricultural lifestyle
that very closely follows the sun as a measure of
time didn't apply to factories where work on something any
manufacturing interest, began on the dot and your mining shift,

(06:15):
to your point, began on the dot. There was no
such thing as show up at six ish. In fact,
some of the more unscrupulous factory owners would close there
where they would open it like six am. They would
close at six oh one and they would lock the
doors until six thirty and then they would let the
other people, the other employees in after making sure their

(06:38):
pay was docked. And they already weren't making much money,
so it became extremely important to get up on time,
notably before the sun rose for a lot of a
lot of these folks. And like you said, alarm clocks existed,
but not only were they expensive, they were also pretty unreliable,
right you, and you would lose your job if you're

(07:00):
if you like, imagine saving for years to buy an
alarm clock and then the alarm clock doesn't work and
you have lost your job. That's where these knocker uppers
come in. They were in Ireland, they were in Britain. Uh.
They would go from door to door or window to window,
as you said, sometimes hundreds of times each morning, and
they would use like this bamboo rod or they would

(07:25):
they would literally kind of like blow dart peas at
the windows. So like a that's that's that's the best one.
That's the most innovative solution, and and really quickly to
like the things that you're describing, Ben, we work sort
of the the next gen of this, uh, this this
knocker upper kind of gear. Initially they would just bang
on people's doors, pissed off literally everybody else in the house.

(07:48):
Or if it was a you know, a group living situation,
you would wake everybody up for that one or two
people that needed to get up at you know, the
crack of dawn to make it to their six am
shift really quickly. I wanted just backtrack, and I I
said something a little bit stupid at the top of
the show. The idea of labor laws during the beginning
of the Industrial Revolution, that obviously didn't become a thing
until later in the Industrial Revolution when it was basically

(08:11):
demanded because working conditions were so abhorrent and there was
there were no child labor laws, and children were working
in factories and looms and you know, subjected to horrible
conditions and very dangerous conditions. And so it wasn't until
labor unions began to form a bit later in the
Industrial Revolution that labor laws became much more codified. But

(08:31):
at the same time still the idea of shift work
was in and of itself kind of an interesting advancement,
at least theoretically in like the way people you know
worked and the idea of like punching in a time
clock and all that stuff that was all pretty new. Yeah,
and then you know, you may be thinking about households
where there are multiple people with multiple jobs. Remember, a

(08:55):
lot of those folks are already working or they themselves
are sleeping in prep ration for whenever their shift is
in the factory, so they don't have someone in the
house to wake them up. A lot of these folks
when they started out, we're already older people who may
have left the workforce proper. And like you had mentioned

(09:16):
the first iteration of these folks, they would bang on
the door and they often would not leave until they
were sure the person they were trying to wake up
was awake. Now, I don't know if you guys have
any hard sleepers in your family or your friends circle.
Do you know it can be a struggle if like,
if someone is a hard sleeper, even if they have

(09:38):
sworn up and down to you that they will do
their best to wake up when you wake them up. Uh,
you know that you become enemy number one when you
do that. Hey, hey, it's eight thirty. That's that's actually
a really good way of I love the gentleness of
your wake up routine there, Ben, because with my daughter,
if I don't do it in the sweetest, gentlest way,

(10:00):
she is an absolute nightmare. Like I have to just
be like, hey, honey, time to get up. Wonderful day.
I love you so much. Here's a little back scratch,
you know. But sometimes I'm just not in the mood
and she's just not like cooperating, almost like okay, homie,
it's time to get up. You got school in thirty minutes.
Do it, and then she hates me for the rest

(10:21):
of the day. But we were talking about this off Mike,
Ben and Casey. I'm interested in in what your thoughts
are here. Obviously, when you're the person responsible the key
word being responsible for waking somebody up, that's a lot
of commitment there. I mean, you are essentially signing a
contract with that person saying I will make sure you
are awake. But what happens if they failed? Do you

(10:43):
think they just didn't get paid? I mean, we like
it seems like an awful lot of pressure. Uh. If
someone is like gonna, you know, say yeah, yeah, I'm
up and they go back to sleep. Could they like
then turn around and say the knock her up or
didn't knock me up properly? You know, like, how's that work? Yeah,
doo doo doo doo doo, that's pressure, or you know,
like you've read my life smiss mcshaughnessy, I never work

(11:06):
at the complement at the pepper factory again exactly. But then,
but at the same time, they you know, to make
any money at all, doing this required a lot of volume.
So it's not only they could just hang around and
make sure old Mrs O'Grady or I guess not old
Mrs Igretty, young Mrs Ogrady was getting up in time

(11:26):
to go to her job at the at the shoe factory,
like because they would have to, like, you know, they
had a narrow window get all this done. I can't
imagine how they would have done a hundred you know,
they must have started like really really early, look at
three or four in the morning, right, Yeah, they probably
started really early, and they probably started in densely populating neighborhoods.

(11:51):
It's strange the demographic of knocker uppers includes you know,
many as we said, uh more elderly women and men,
but also members of law enforcement because they were they
were already patrolling the streets, so why not make a
couple extra pence? Right? This trend took off, by the way,

(12:11):
this was an exploding industry and it even started affecting
other industries in surprising ways. Gave our research group found
the story I thought was really interesting about a moonlighting
member of the police who started screwing up his day

(12:32):
job in the worst possible way because he was he
was busy knocking people up and beamed from the US.
I'm always going to find that phrase hilarious, but it's
it's gonna get some giggles out of me on that
one too. Yeah, I mean in a pretty spectacular way. Right.
Another big hallmark of kind of that, you know, really grimy, seedy,

(12:55):
Industrial Revolution era London was the story of Jack the
Ripper and all of these grizzly murders that were plaguing
East London. Um. And if I'm not mistaken, Robert Paul,
who was the man who discovered Jack the Ripper's first victim,
a woman Mary Nichols, Right, Um, he tells the tale

(13:19):
about how he actually reported the crime to a policeman
but the policeman was so busy doing his like pre
dawn knocking up duties that he didn't really act and
he maybe could have caught the killer if he had
been a little more quick on the draw, but he
was so busy doing his knocking up that he kind
of goofed, right, man, Yeah, yeah, like imagine, so we

(13:42):
take we know that moonlighting is a thing. I was
trying to think of a modern example of this. What
if you were in the position of Robert Paul and
you find a horrifically mutilated corpse and then you run
to the nearest human act video you can find, and
it's like road construction and there's a moonlighting police officer

(14:06):
as a crossing guard or supervising the construction, or they
could be, uh, moonlighting as security at a restaurant or
a bar. And you tell them I found this mutilated
body and they say, I'm busy, that's what happened, and
that's that's terrible. But that just shows you how prevalent

(14:26):
this was. This was a real job. And you're right,
I did get a little ahead of us when I
was talking about the glory days of knocker uppers, because yeah,
originally it was someone who would come in and just
like bang on your door, Get up, get up, get up.
You have to go to the um. Yeah, you have
to go to peruke factory, the perukatori um ben I.

(14:49):
I would never wear a mass produced peruke, my friend.
It's a handmaid only for me, right right, Well, they
all become unique once you grow your own ecosystem of
life fature. So when they had to move volume, uh,
they had to wake people up as quickly as possible. Right.
They couldn't wait around for everyone, and they also couldn't
go into a house, climb up to the second or

(15:10):
third story and knock on that door. Right, So how
how did they navigate this? Yeah, I mean that there
was this this These folks had to be pretty enterprising
because it was literally a profession that kind of sprang
up overnight more or less, um because the need was
there and it hadn't been before. And you're right, then
it started off a little more rudimentary, uh, with just

(15:30):
the banging, and that woke everybody in the house up,
et cetera. So they had to be able to be
a little more selective with their banging. Selective banging, uh,
and they would take these bamboo rods that had little
kind of scraper finger type things on the end, and
they would gently wrap tap tap on the exact window
of the bedroom of the person that they were trying
to knock up. UM. And that required some you know,

(15:52):
some knowledge, like because if they were getting a lot
of these in, they had to know which window belonged
to whom and who was actually paying them, uh, in
order to collect they're there sixpence a week I believe
is roughly what the going rate was for a knocker upper. UM.
There was there were a couple of different UH. I
guess you could say evolutions of this, like if there

(16:13):
was a version of it that had a little rubber
cap attached to the end of the bamboo pole, so
would muffle the sounds, so only the person directly near
the window it would technically be able to hear it,
and they would I've heard some reports saying they would
wait until the person would come to the window, not
just not just they would need some confirmation otherwise again

(16:33):
they might not get paid if the person claimed that
they didn't hear it or it didn't happen, then they
might not get paid. They wanted some confirmation because This
was absolutely a transactional situation. They didn't want anybody to
get woken up for free, after all, right, right, that's
why they had to stop banging, because look, it's like
stealing your neighbor's cable, right if you're waking up when
your neighbor is roused by the knocking service they've paid for.

(16:56):
So they got the little rubber caps. Typically there would
be something like you described, like a bamboo or other
lightweight wooden stick, kind of think of a fishing rod.
But then people also use these soft hammers or rattles.
I love who doesn't love a Morocca in the pre
dawn morning, you know what I mean? And then uh,

(17:18):
and then let's see they were also snuffer outers. Those
were the things that people used to put out gas
lamps when when dawn came, they would extinguish the gas
lamps by hand. So if that's already your job, why
not make a couple of extra pence by knocking that
bad boy on a window. And then we we come
to I think the coolest part, right can we just

(17:40):
we can't just say her name and introduce Mary Anne Smith,
the famous London East End pea shooter, which is Oh,
you make it sound like she was like some sort
of like serial killer, just a really obnoxious person, like
like notoriously obnoxious. You would just pelt you with peace
from a distance. You never actually killed anybody, but she

(18:00):
just you know, it was a serial nuisance. No, she
was actually very effective in her job because she, like
we alluded to earlier in the show, um, kind of
took this to the next level by making sort of
like a almost like a flute or really just like
a kind of like a hollowed out kind of tube situation. UM.
And she would load it up with literally little ps

(18:23):
um and she could be very efficient and required a
lot of aim uh and a lot of lung power
to keep this up. But it's definitely one of the
more innovative examples of of knocking up that we've come across.
There are a few, uh, really interesting photos of knocker
uppers that have kind of stood the test of history,
and you can catch some of these on Vintage News

(18:44):
Daily if you search for before there were alarm clocks,
knocker ups were paid to wake up their clients by
knocking um. And there's a picture of of this woman
with her p shooter and it's a delightful image. Uh.
Definitely would have required a lot more precision than than
just an old like you know, bamboo rod I got.
You gotta appreciate the flex there, m hm. And they

(19:04):
become a piece of popular culture. There's a children's book
about Mary Ann Smith called Mary Smith and It's The
plot is essentially her walking around waking up the town everybody,
from the guys who self fish in the market to
the mayor. Uh. And she is offering people a cup
of tea as well, which is a nice touch, but

(19:25):
it's it's a children's book. Your description, noal of someone
being an obnoxious like serial criminal reminds me of the
story of the not one, but two whipping Tom's that
were in England in the sixteen hundreds and then later
in the seventeen hundreds. The first one was active in

(19:49):
Fleet Street, the Strand and Holburn. This is silly now,
but I'm sure it was very frightening and unpleasant experience
for many people. He would wait until he saw an
unaccompanied woman and then he would like grab her uh
and then slap her on the butt and then run
away yelling spanko, spanko, sp a and ko that was

(20:11):
his whole thing. He had a catchphrase, he had a
catch phrase, and he was a serious threat. I think
nowadays they would probably call that sexual assault, right, Yeah, yeah,
I think so. I think so that's that's rough. That's
why we we shouldn't do an episode on it. But
we're saying there were real characters, uh, and individuals like

(20:32):
this fanciful version of Mary Ann Smith were describing and
you know, Marian Smith thankfully wasn't a criminal in real life,
and her job was not easy. Knocker uppers did not
have an easy line of work, you know. And it's
just sort of something we were beating around the bush

(20:52):
at a little bit, but sort of like where's the
responsibility lie? You know, when you when you sign up
to do this job, how far do you go to
make sure that someone's awake? Probably as far as you
need to go to ensure that you're gonna get your
your pay. Um. But there was a really well known
knocker up. I love I love it. The term is
sort of interchangeable between someone being a knocker up or

(21:16):
a knocker upper, uh, and I like them both. But um,
Mrs Waters was her name. Uh. And in this Great
Alice Obscure article. There's a quote from her describing a
surly or hot tempered fellow who would growl or knock
things about as he came to the window to reply,
because again you wanted that like, you know, confirmation like

(21:37):
and then you could move on. Um. And his responding
rap would sound as peevish as possible. Um. And then
you know that she also on the flip side of that,
talked about some of the nicer folks that she knocked up.
Never cannot stop laughing at that. Uh. You could hear
from his very tread that he was grateful even and
his reply tap sounded quite musical, and when he spoke

(21:59):
and bade you good morning, it was really encouraging. Yeah. Yeah,
And so it's a case by case thing, it's still
it's customer service. That's what this job is. Another obstacle
knocker uppers would run into was keeping track of the
client's specifications, their addresses, the times they needed to be

(22:24):
woken up. Some knocker uppers would use chalk and right
the time outside each client's house. Others with a bit
more of uh, with a bit more of an entrepreneurial spirit,
would make signs outside of each client's house, kind of
like the signs you'll see for alarm companies, uh that
are mostly advertisements. These signs would include the time the

(22:48):
client needed to be knocked up and also pardon my
viewer as a butt head laugh there. And also they
would advertise the knocker upp business. And then they would
have to make sure that all their customers were kind
of in a small geographical area so that they could
minimize the time they wasted walking. This meant that there

(23:09):
was like a secondary trade of knocker uppers giving each
other clients. Yeah, but you got to imagine too, there
had to have been some competition or at least rivalries.
That I would love to hear a story about rival
and knocker uppers encroaching on each other's territory and and
like going to war in the streets with their peace

(23:29):
shooters and uh and bamboo rods. That that'd be a
fun little sketch at the very least. Right. Um, And
this this profession, as much as it was, it was
definitely news to me and I believe to you as well.
It does appear in pop culture uh here and there,
in literature and poetry, and it was you know, popular
and ubiquitous enough profession that it made its way into

(23:52):
into places like Charles Dickens. But there's this fantastic tongue twister,
my favorite at the time. Why don't you do it? Ben?
This is this is the is so in your wheelhouse.
I would I would love for you to do the honors.
Why don't we both do it and see how fast
we can do it? Okay, we can do it as
a competition, but this is this, This answers the question.
We'll wait a minute. If he's knock her up? Or

(24:13):
is there were no alarm clocks and they people literally
had to pay someone to wake them up for an
early morning job. Who woke up the person that woke
them up knocked up the knocker up? Uh? You want
to go first, Ben? Uh? Yeah, let's give it a go.
We had a knocker up, and our knocker up had
a knocker up, and or knocker ups. Knocker up didn't
knock our knocker up, so our knocker up didn't knock

(24:35):
us up because he's not up. Very well done, Ben, Again,
I think we should do it more slowly, actually, because
it's easier to follow. We had a knock her up
and our knocker up had a knocker up, and our
knocker ups knocker up didn't knock aren't you boy ha?
Not even gonna do a redo and that it's back
try and our knocker ups knocker up didn't knock our
knock her up. So our knocker up didn't knock us

(24:56):
up because he's not up. It reminds me of you,
how much would would a woodchuck chuck of woodchuck? Would
chuck would or my favorite version of it, how many
lows would rob low? Rob if rob low robbed lows.
That's good, never heard that one before. But that's sort
of like a more modern spin on the old on

(25:17):
this this this style of tongue twister. Um. But this
is a serious question. I mean, maybe not serious, but
one that I had. You know who, who's waking up
the waker uppers? Uh? And the answer to that is
they were more like night shift types, so they slept
during the day and they basically hadn't gone to sleep yet.

(25:38):
They would probably get off from their night shifts at
another job and then just stay up into the wee
hours and then literally the early morning and then go
to sleep in time for their next day's night shift
and that's that that definitely goes for the people who
are younger in the in the knocker upper game. But
I was thinking about the elderly folks who formed a

(25:59):
large a graphic. There's something to be said for the
avuncular nature or the grandparents like aspect of an older
person gently waking you up if we see this in
these contemporary accounts. There's one from Newcastle in n work
called Hadrian's Wall by Jesse Mother Soul, and she describes

(26:22):
it thusly. Turning to the left long Shields Road, I
was amused to see an old woman in a dirty
apron and gray shawl going around knocking a much burcurtained
windows on the ground floor with a small hammer. Lizzie,
it's well nigh six o'clock. Mary, it's time you riz,
and so on at house after house. It was my
first sight of a knocker up. So it's kind of

(26:44):
like it reminds me of have you guys ever we
used to just peep behind the curtain, folks, all of
us used to have to travel all the time before
the pandemic hit and I started using them. The wake
up service, in addition to an alarm clock, is very
much the same, you know. Yeah, it is nice to
have that human touch though. It makes you feel looked after,

(27:06):
you know what I mean, It's like someone cared enough
to call and wake me up, even though it's like
literally their job. I think we buried the leave there
a little bit. Then there's some really great English slang there.
I believe he said, Mary, it's time he riz r
i Z. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Maybe that's where
the Rizza got his name. Yeah, maybe that's it. Maybe

(27:28):
he when he was starting wu tang he said, we
all know what's essential. What hip hop really needs right
now is a resurrection of early nineteen hundreds British slang.
Uh So, so take that run with it. Tell us
what Jessy stands for? Or what what that? What slang

(27:50):
that is a reference to? Uh? We We have these
different accounts. Like you said, they were found in popular culture.
They appeared in dick ends and children's books and correspondence
of the time. The practice, you would imagine, eventually disappeared
as alarm clocks became more reliable and more affordable. But

(28:12):
when did it go away? This is interesting. We know
that it died out in many many places by say
the nineteen forties, nineteen fifties, post World War Two. But
the weirdest part is it didn't completely die out for
a very long time, oh man. I mean, the Brits
are huge fans of tradition. It's something that I think

(28:36):
as as a real it almost takes on like a
part of their cultural identity. So it's hard for them
to let stuff like that go. And so as late
as the nineteen seventies you would still see, uh, some
little areas of industrial England continuing to practice knocking up.
And even after it completely went away, I mean, it's

(28:58):
certainly lived on in things like like you said in
Dickens and these nursery rhymes and folk songs. Uh. And
this lyric in particular by the Manchester folk singer Mike Canavan,
which I think is delightful, really sums up the whole thing.
Through cobbled streets, cold and damn. The knocker upper Man
is creeping, tap tapping on each window pane to keep

(29:22):
the world from sleeping, actually has a little bit of
a creepy vibe to it. Now that I'm thinking about
the knocker upper Man is creeping. That's a little bit terrifying.
Don't sleep and that's where our story ends today, the
rise and the fall of the knocker upper industry. How

(29:44):
to getting knocked up come to be us slang referring
to impregnation. That's a story for another day. Uh, but
I think I think this is still instructive for us
here in because just like back then, a lot of
people have a hard time getting up today. I'm gonna
be honest with you, guys. I move mountains to try

(30:08):
to not schedule a meeting before like yeah, no doubt.
Oh man. Huge thanks to super producer Casey Pegraham, as always,
Alex Williams, who composed our theme. Christopher hasiotis our main
man here in spirit, Jonathan Strickland, a k a. The

(30:28):
quiz Ter, who himself, by the way, is very much
a morning person. And of course, as always, thanks to
the Queen of England. Uh thanks to Freddie Mercury for
under pressure reference. I don't think we did enough of
it to get sued or have to pay anyone. And uh,
I gotta say you were, you were you were doing

(30:49):
the vanilla ice, Yeah, yeah, yeah I was. And most importantly, Casey,
I want to thank you for that amazing shirt you're wearing.
It's been very hard not to give you a compliment
on that this entire time we've been recording. Well, thank you.
I think we should just leave it to theater the
mind and not describe the shirt, and so that people
can just invent their own kind of platonic ideal of

(31:11):
a great shirt in their heads. What a shirt? What
a shirt? Describe this shirt using your theater of the mind,
and tell us about it. On the internet, We're on Facebook,
We're on Instagram, We're on Twitter. Yes, we're ridiculous History
and all those places. You can also find Ben and
I as human beings um doing our human being things
on I'm exclusively on Instagram at how Now Normal Brown

(31:33):
and you can find me on Twitter where I'm at
Ben Bulan hs W, or you can find me on Instagram,
should you so desire where I am at Ben bulling up?
Oh man? How do we segue to an ended? Usually
we just have some sort of banter and you say, well,
well you'll say the line. You did it, Ben, We'll
see you next time. Books. For more podcasts from My

(32:04):
Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.