December 23, 2021 • 31 mins
By 1857, London's exotic animal trade was in full swing. Animals arrived at the city from across the world (often not surviving the journey), and Charles Jamrach was one of the most prominent animal dealers on the planet. At the height of his fame, he gained public attention by saving a child from a tiger. One problem: it was Jamrach's fault the tiger was in London in the first place. Learn more about London's exotic animal trade in part two of this two-part episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
(00:27):
back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always
so much for tuning in. Tigers, Tigers, Tigers, Man, I
am excited about this. I hope are super producer. The
one and only Mr Max Williams is excited as well.
Who am I? I'm Ben Noel. Tigers Tigers, Tigers burning
(00:47):
bright or at least one burning pretty bright? Not in
the was it forest of the night? Been in the
streets of London town And what better introduction is there
for part two of our show on Charles jam Rock
in eighteen fifty seven, at the high point of his success,
he gets his crown jewel, a fully grown Bengal tiger
(01:12):
that came to England from the East Indies. This takes
us to that morning we talked about the very top,
the morning of October when the tiger and several other
large feelines by the way arrives at the Belt Street Nagerie.
It arrives in London and it immediately escapes because it's
(01:34):
in this large crate that has um. If you picture,
it's got three solid wood sides and then it's got
one side with thick iron vertical bars across the front,
and jam Rock has gone to this place in person
because he wants to supervise the logistics of moving this
(01:55):
tiger from its transport crate to its permanent enclosure. And
so he says, Okay, let's position the crate so the
bars are placed against the wall of the yard while
we're getting its permanent home ready. And that sounded pretty safe, right,
You got iron bars, you got it against the wall.
(02:16):
But the thing is, jam Rock didn't have a lot
of experience with the power of a fully grown tiger.
And they're absolute beast and they're brilliant. I love tigers,
by the way, and they were gonna, as he says
later in an issue of a magazine called The Boy's
Own Papers, yes seventy nine, I love these titles, uh,
(02:39):
he says, he talks about this. He says, they mean
the workers were proceeding to take down a dead with
leopards when all of a sudden I heard a crash,
and to my horror, found the big tiger and pushed
out the back part of his dead with his hind quarters.
He kind of donkey kicked it, you know, and was
walking down the odd into the street. Which was then
(03:00):
full of people watching the arrival of this curious merchandise. Dude,
this reminds me of the opening scene of Jurassic Park,
you know, and they're like transporting the velociraptor paddock or whatever.
Maybe that was another up with the paddock of the
thing they're actually living. Um, this was like a grate,
you know, and then you sort of see all this
crawfuffle and then the thing gets out. You just hear
(03:20):
the sounds and then people are like, you know, murdered
or whatever. This is like a little bit less sci
fi version of that, but yeah, can you imagine seeing
this fully grown, absolutely monstrous tiger just kind of sauntering
down the high street? Yeah, yeah, that is a breathtaking image.
I think the closest I've seen to that is a
(03:41):
few years ago when a zebra got loose from the
Atlanta Zoo and was out in the city. Um, but
this this stuff does happen, uh, And a zebra is
still a wild animal, don't mess with them, but it's
not as likely to malu as a tiger. So this
is like, uh, increasingly escalating situation and just gets worse
(04:02):
and worse because the tiger who as you noticed, kind
of sauntering around like oh this is there's a different environment,
sees a nine year old boy. Because the boy, who
has also had no experience with the tiger to to
this kid, it's just a big cat. So he tries
to reach out and just give the cat a little pet.
(04:22):
As it's walking past, the tiger notices it. The tiger
turns and then uh, the the tiger slaps the kid
across the face, knocking him down, picks him up by
his jacket, and it just like starts dragging him down
the street. It's the shoulder of his jacket, I think.
(04:43):
And the kid is is freaking out. Uh. And then
jam Rock and again there might be some bias here
because jam Rock is telling his own story to the boy,
his own paper. Uh, he says, he springs into immediate action, Yeah,
he says. When I saw the boy being carried off
in this manner and witnessed the panic that had seized
hold of the people, without further thought, I dashed after
(05:06):
the brute. I was then of a more vigorous frame
than now, uh, and had plenty of pluck and dash
in me. So just again into like kind of like
sum up what was happening. We we say the tiger
had the boy in his mouth, but it's almost like cartoonist, right,
Like the tigers like holding the boy by like the
scruff of his jacket, right, and that's what's in his mouth,
(05:28):
and it's holding the boy up, but he has not
actually sunk his teeth into the actual you know kid,
in the kid's body. Um. So at this point it's
absolute pandemonium. The crowds dispersing, people are running for their lives.
Jam Rock, you know, sprinting in his more uh youthful
limber form as he put it, or vigorous rather sprinting
(05:48):
after the tiger. Um. He throws himself onto the tiger's back.
I mean, this is some pretty heavy type stuff if
it wasn't like, you know, his fault in the first place. Um.
And he grabs the tiger and by the scruff of
his neck, like I mean, that seems like a little
bit of a wasted effort. Uh. And and understandably it
doesn't do much. The tiger is incredibly strong and it's
(06:09):
like you know, mechanical bull style tosses jam Rock off
his back uh and into the streets and retains hold
of the boy in his teeth. Yeah, yeah, And so
this is a panic moment, uh Max, I know you've
got some action music here. This is a panic moment.
Jam Rock tries a second time to stop the tiger,
(06:31):
and this is when he gets creative. He tries to
trip it and it works, and you know, it's lost
to history about how he manages to trip it, but
I like to picture him just sticking his foot out.
But as the tiger falls to the ground, jam Rock
then jumps back on its back and he puts his
hands around its neck and he's trying to strangle it.
(06:52):
And as he's trying to put it to sleep, one
of the workers from his menagerie yard runs over and
hits it three times over the head with a crow
bar right between the eyes, and then this causes the
tiger to release the kid his jaws opened, and then
at this point jam Rock says, you know, I thought
(07:12):
the tiger was dead or it was dying, so I
let go of it. And as soon as I did,
it jumped back up again. And then he's like, oh no.
When he grabbed the crowbar, and he says, I gave
him with all the strength I had left a blow
over the head. He seemed quite cowed. He turned tail.
He went back towards the stables. I drove him into
the yard, closed the doors at once. Looking around for
(07:34):
my tiger, I found he snuck into a large empty den. Uh.
Two of my men had jumped into an elephant's box.
They descended. They pushed down the the iron, sighting for
the door, and so now the tiger was safely under
lock and key. The boy is uninjured. They say the
tiger is uninjured, but that tiger took three massive blows
(07:54):
to the head with a crow bar, just to give
you a sense of how rough these dudes are. Now, Listen,
I'm not like some kind of like with the top
Peter person. I believe in animal rights. Like obviously it's
a very very important thing. These are living creatures that
need to be treated with respect. I think sometimes the
Peter folks go a little far. But in this case,
this is literally a situation that was caused by jam
Rock himself and his capitalization and essentially victimization of these
(08:18):
creatures that would never have had to be dealt with
in this way if he hadn't to put them in
that situation in the first place. So essentially he was
Like I I used the word heroic earlier. That was
absolutely incorrect. I mean, the guy is essentially trying to
keep himself and having to deal with a pr nightmare
and in doing so, you know, absolutely bludgeoning to death
(08:39):
this uh, this incredible creature that he put in harm's
way and everyone else in harm's way because he took
this thing out of its normal context and it's not
meant to be roaming the streets of London or like
you know, traveling around him crates. Yeah, in my opinion,
the tiger here is just as much uh, the victim
(09:00):
as the boy. It's not the first time a tiger
had been loose on that same street. One escaped from
one of those traveling menagerie as we mentioned back in
eighteen thirty nine. George George Well womb Well that's his
real name, folks, George well womb Wells traveling Menagerie. Their
tiger got loose. Uh. Yeah, the kid just had some
(09:21):
scratches and probably a headache and a heck of a
story for his schoolmates. There is one interesting wrinkle. The
BBC points this out in uh When Wild Beast Roam
The UK BBC News piece. They note that, you know,
(09:44):
there was a lot of racism involved in the British
Empire at the time, and England in eighteen fifty seven
was in the grid of a panic because of the
Indian Mutiny, and a tiger was a symbol of India,
so it was an especially symbolic frightening thing to see
this tiger and loot loose in London, and one newspaper
(10:07):
account from the time even explicitly drew this connection. But
at this point, the tiger survived, jam Rocks survived, He
had a little bit of a Liam Nisson esque story
to tell his friends, and the child survived. But what
happens after Well, the boy's father sues jam Rock, and
(10:29):
jam Rock has to pay a grand total of three
hundred pounds sixty pounds compensation, two forty pounds legal costs.
We've got an inflation calculator on this, I think good. Yeah,
so about sixty pounds by today's standard would be about
(10:51):
seven grand, and two hundred and forty pounds would be
around twenty eight thousand, five hundred dollars. So at this way, Ben,
wouldn't you say that jam Rock himself because of his success? Uh?
And um relationships with all of these like super super
upper crest folks. He would have been pretty upper crest
at this point, right. Oh yeah, he was making money, yeah,
(11:12):
and was essentially protected from any real um ramifications for
this incident. This was an utter slap on the wrist
of that. Yeah, it's not breaking the bank for him
at all. Also, it's kind of it's darkly hilarious to
me that they're like, Okay, seven thousand dollars is are
sorry about the tiger money and uh, the almost thirty
(11:32):
thou dollars just administrative fees. You know, it's like buying
from ticketmaster. Uh, I said it. But the the judge, Uh,
it's interesting the point you made, because the judge himself
was conflicted because yeah, this is a dangerous incident. It
is jam Rock's fault. But he also said, you know,
(11:53):
this guy, on the other hand, should have been rewarded
for saving not just the life of this nine year old,
but maybe that of a lot other people. Because look,
I I don't know how in shape you are, but unarmed,
I guarantee you you cannot you cannot win a one
on one against the Tiger. Um A. Nope, not not
(12:14):
not in a foot race, not an arm wrestling, certainly
not in hand to paw combat. Uh, you are going
to lose. I just looked it up. Like according to Google,
like a Bengal tiger is like three ten to four pounds. Yeah,
this is a massive Like there are like of like
you know cats. This is about as big of a
cat as that comes. Yeah. Just uh yeah, just for perspective,
(12:37):
if you if you want to think of it this way.
A tiger is incredibly strong animal. It can carry something
like five hundred and fifty ms ten ft up a
tree for all of us in the US is one thousand,
two hundred and twelve pounds. That's what do you even lift? Cat? Bro?
(12:58):
You know what I mean, That's what the tiger would
ask you. So this is not the end of jam
rocks financial standing nor of his career. Like you said,
it doesn't break his bank. The tiger later gets sold
to that George Wombwell guy. And I've seen his name
as George Well Wombwell and George Wombwell, but I love
(13:19):
George Well womb Well, so I hope that's his real name. Uh.
This guy made money off of that incident. Just like
we said with the the earlier folks who said, oh
look this lie and actually killed someone. This is the
tiger that escaped and roamed the streets, menacing the good
people of London town. He even swallowed a bar whole.
(13:40):
Just ain't the whole boy? Yeah, I mean, let's let's
let's not that the facts stand on the way of
a good story, right exactly. And then jam Rock even
partners so he expands his collection. His business is still growing,
his client list is still growing. He eventually gets P. T.
Barnum as a client and helps Barnum restock his circus
(14:01):
after a fire. But while he is succeeding, his business
is succeeding in specific, in general, the exotic animal trade
is starting to die down. People are less and less
interested in exotic animals, or not as much as they
have been in the past. Jam Rock passes away of eight,
(14:23):
and just like what happened with his father, his son
Albert takes over after his death. But then we see
the outbreak of World War one. World War one absolutely
demolishes the international trade networks that made this animal trade possible.
So the company closes down and this ends the chapter. Well,
(14:46):
this ends the main chapter on the life of London's
Tiger King. He's gone, but he's very much not forgotten.
I'm so sorry to be the bearer of bad news,
but I do believe it was a type of the
gentleman's name is George Wombwell, not George Well walm Well,
but Well walm Well. Oh. I mean it needs to
(15:07):
be kept because it's incredible. I just wanted to make
sure people weren't googling it and beating their head against
the wall because you're not gonna find it. But uh,
it's a it's a fantastic type of that shell live
on in our hearts. Okay, listen, Well, I think we've
been at some logger heads in this episode. First I'm
gonna say those restaurants are named after Charles jam Rock,
and secondly, i'm gonna say his name was George Well Walmwell.
(15:27):
Because I want to live in a world with some magic,
and I want to live there with you, buddy, I
want to live there with you. Uh far be it
for me to suck any magic out of the world.
We need every little ounce that we can. But jam
rocks memory does remain today. You can find a statue
commemorating his contribution to the culture of Victoria, England. Uh.
(15:48):
And well, I guess I don't know if I would
can entirely call it selfless, but his rescue of that boy,
you know that he himself was responsible putting in harm's way.
There is a set even foots tall bronze tiger that
stands in the entrance to Tobacco Dock. Uh. And that's
very close to where the incident took place, and it's
memorialized also with like a little plaque. But this was
(16:10):
not the only time that jam Rocks business potentially threatened
the safety and well being of others, right, Oh yeah,
lions and tigers and bears, oh my, also raccoons so
so uh in eighteen seventies seven July of eighteen seventy seven,
(16:30):
there's his report in the East London Observer And you
can read this reference in a great article by london
This dot com that talks about how one of jam
Rocks other tigers escaped from a train on the London
and Northwestern Railway in a village called Whedon near Northampton. Uh.
And then three lions escaped from his shop and found
(16:53):
his wife Mary in a nearby parlor. Uh. He managed
to he managed to yell like marry lions in enough
time for her to close the door. Thanks hone, Thanks
good looking out that door there. Okay, okay, back to
back to what I was doing. Yeah, he he did.
(17:16):
He did manage to to lock all the lions back
up in a second bedroom, um where they stayed until
he was able to get a handler to come and
get them. Um, because he you know, well he was
I guess he he had a certain set of skills, right,
He was not necessarily a lion tamer or a handler.
He employed you know, folks that were much more hands
on with the with the animals. Um. But he did
(17:37):
seem to have to kind of jump to attention a
couple of times. And we also know that he had
a raccoon that was known to have escaped from his care.
Probably not didn't make quite as good a story. Um.
We know the raccoons are pretty pretty tricksy though, right.
They can like they get their little hands were crafty.
They can like unlatched doors and stuff I would imagine,
(17:57):
and they can walk, uh, they can walk bipedally. Briefly,
you've probably seen that video of a raccoon stealing cat
food in front of some cats. But when they do,
they always look like they're scheming. That's the thing about raccoons.
They look like the scheming. They look like they got
you know, they're always doing this kind of Monty Burns thing,
rubbing their hands together. Uh. I say that out of love,
(18:19):
but uh there there is something else interesting we found too,
which is an economic look at this. And I just
picked one example that I thought would be a fun
walk through. So we said he had a lot of stock.
He he had more than just tigers, he had zebras, leopards, ostriches, bears,
polar bears, et cetera. You name it. If the if
(18:41):
you had the scratch, he could probably get it for you.
So we found a article from the time that is
available at the East End dot code dot UK which
shows the prices of animals on offers, so you can
find those prices. And I just thought we could do
a quick example of this. So Nola Max Ny are
(19:04):
looking at this list and the prices seem kind of odd,
so I wanted to do a couple of steps. I
just took one example. So a polar bear, if you
wanted to buy one from jam Rock, was twenty five
pounds twenty five pounds nowadays is thirty three dollars and
five cents. So I thought, how much is thirty three
(19:27):
dollars and five cents in eighteen fifty seven? If we
can hit me with the book perfect, that is a
grand total of Now this is weird, guys. Get this.
That's a grand total of one thousand, fifty five dollars
and eight cents, which is less than like a high
(19:49):
end Mac laptop. So that's a crazy low price for
a polar Bear, right doesn't that seem Yeah, it does
seem low band, But it's sort of like owning a
Bugatti or something, right, Like, you buy the car, but
then there's this built in cost of ownership where you
have to take it to a certain you know, Bugatti
expert who does a certain type of you know regiment.
(20:11):
They can't be done just by any auto technician, um
such as the case. Can you imagine about how much
like meat you would have to buy all the time.
You don't just get polar bear food and feed it
once a day. I mean, it would be a whole thing.
So people that aren't considering that are going to have
a weird, emaciated and very angry and ravenous polar bear
on their hands. The most expensive of the things that
we have on menu here was, in fact the tiger,
(20:32):
which would have gone for around three hundred pounds at
the time, which today um would be in the what
tens of thousands? Yeah, so pound to a dollar And
this is not perfect because I'm doing the conversions for
the present pound of dollar difference, But three pounds today
would be three hundred ninety six dollars and sixty six
(20:53):
cents u s. Which means that in eighteen fifty seven
a tiger would cost you the elevalent of twelve thousand,
six hundred and seventy two dollars and fifty one cents,
which is still less than a lot of cars. It's
just like I was thinking of that maintenance point to
It's something a lot of people forget. It's like one
of the main reasons I don't own a dirigible um
(21:16):
or a tiger. Well, you gotta have somewhere to tie
it down first of all. Been and then like you know,
how do you how do you abort it? Yeah? Go, So,
how much was a porpoise from him? Because we established
you get a porpoise, right, We did not establish that
backs we we conjectured that it was entirely about he
didn't seem to deal in the sea creatures. I haven't
seen many of those. Have all these all seemed to
(21:37):
be land dwelling. And that's why he's because, oh wow,
well poor people can go see uh, can go observe
maritime creatures. So maybe that was maybe that was part
of his calculus there. Maybe he was like, I didn't
want to buy anything that the average peasant could just
(21:58):
observe from rocky shore somewhere, you know. I mean, I
bet he would have gotten into our walls. That's a
good point. It's a good I think the I think
they were believed to be mystical creatures for a very
long time. I personally thought they were mythical until literally
a year or so ago, didn't. I mean the unicorns, So,
I mean, it makes it makes sense for them to
be mythical, but they're not. Also, that's a tooth that's
(22:22):
not really a horn. That's one of their teeth. Yeah,
not very functional though. It's I mean, it's a definite.
It's a choice, I think is what we call. It's
a choice. It's weird. I mean, I I love I
love the ideas of UH. I love the ideas of
an intelligent design that just eventually gets into this freestyle
(22:43):
what do we have left over phase? You know with
the flat words? Yeah, how about a how about like
a sea cow that has one weird, giant, useless tooth.
We gotta make one more thing. What do we have? Well,
we got these uh, we got these like snake like insects,
and then we got like hundreds of feet Alright, find centipedes.
(23:06):
I'll just be a thing. So the fact that we
keep on finding out more stuff about the platypus blows that.
Like their bioluminescent now I know that that's what what?
Why do they have like everything weird about them? Yeah,
it's Australia. They're also poisonous. The very first menagerie that
(23:35):
was recorded, it goes way back, like you were saying earlier,
in old to the thirteenth century. The Tower of London
Menagerie UH was first entered in the historical record way
back in twelve ten CE, and it was known to
house these elephants, these lions, hippos. Probably one of their
most famous folks, like the Kobe of their team, was
(23:58):
a polar bear. Which would swim in the tims, which
I think is a cool sort of I think that's
a cool idea. But also I think we're about to
learn about one of the coolest jobs in London at
the time. Yeah. One. I'm wondering though at this time
where the were the famous Swans that some of the
Thames that are also notoriously ill tempered. Where they coexisting
(24:20):
with this polar bear at the time. I don't know.
I have to find out looking a little deeper, but yeah,
Alfred Copps was the keeper of the Tower Menagerie in
eighteen twenty two, and on his watch, one of his underlings,
a junior keeper, accidentally raised a door like an iron
door that separated a lion and a tiger and a tigress,
(24:42):
allowing them to you know, kind of com mingle into
each other's habitats and get into a massive brawl like
think like cartoon, you know, like dust brawl where you
see the one poor beaten down creature crawling out and
then h Paul reaches out and pulls back in by
its dale. That's totally how this went down, no question
(25:03):
about it. Um. They were separated using what is called
here in this article in the London isst hot rods,
but I assume that probably just means iron rods that
were heated to you know, the glowing heat, uh and
a fire. So again, very very brutal. But the lion
died a few days later from the injuries that staying
(25:24):
in the fight and also presumably maybe from being poked
with hot rods. It would be kind of interesting, if
highly anachronistic, if the hot rods were like race cars. Yeah,
I mean, you know, we can, we can, Michael bay
that one. Uh. We Also, I do want to take
one second that would tell tell you guys about a book.
(25:45):
We used to always be recommending um comic books and
and other books. But I was thinking about interesting jobs
in the Tower of London, and I've I've finished this
book earlier this year called The Raven Master, which is
all about the guy named Christopher Scaife whose entire job
is to be in charge of the famous ravens at
(26:07):
the Tower of London. It's a really cool read, and
I wonder if he would be an interesting person to interview.
Look at his fit man, Can guys see this on
the camera? Look at that? That's a flex? Oh obviously?
Oh yes, exactly. Those are the famous tower guards that
you can't get him to crack a smile. He uh he,
(26:27):
he writes like he is probably a lot of fun
to hang out with. But but yes, the Tower of
London is amazing. It has this history of interactions with animals,
and we know that there were more more problems with
the menagerie at the Tower of London. Uh what was
it like? The Leads Times that reported aid at large
(26:51):
and furious wolf had managed to escape the menagerie and
it was on its way to the drawbridge and they
had to like shut the gate down to stop it
from getting into the city. And then apparently it was
in such a bad mood that when people forced it
back into the tower, it found a nearby terrier dog
(27:12):
and picked it up and then just shook it around
and then let it go, Like Okay, but I know
it's not your fault. I was just I'm just not
having the best day. Yikes. Why is this series full
of like animals grabbing things and shaking them and letting
them go. A it's a it's a thing that animals are.
They're very into doing. Like you said, Ben, we are
(27:33):
both fond of our cats. Fond maybe being a strong word.
We definitely love them at there are times where they
might grab one of our prize possessions in their jaws
and shake them back and forth until exactly it's just
it's just part of who they are as creatures, and
we have to to learn to to live with it. Um,
but I am excited. I adopted a kitten earlier this
(27:53):
year and it is pretty much crossed over into no
longer a kitten territory. And while kittens are real cute,
they're also a resolutely feral and psychotic. And I'm super
happy that she's gotten a little bit more chill over
the last couple of months. So can congratulations to you
ven s A. You've you finally become a woman? Yeah,
my cat's kind of getting that way too. Um, she's
(28:13):
finally starting to get a little way from kidd into
a little more like adults. But she's also six and
a half, so late bloomer. Yeah, and I don't know
how much she's still Yeah. As always, folks, feel free
to go by ridiculous historians on Facebook and post pictures
of your pets bonus points if they look like they're
(28:34):
in some weird historical context. Uh, photoshop allowed. I'll say
photoshop allowed. It'll be like The Boy's Own Paper, which
was a mix of factual and fictional stories. I don't
know why I'm gonna be wondering about the title of
that magazine for the rest of the day. And we
have other stuff to do today, you know, like a
(28:55):
lot of people, we're we're working to close out the
books before the end to the year. But we have
had such a wonderful wild ride this year, despite a
global pandemic, despite you know, um, despite personal things that
have happened to us, and all of us listening along
(29:16):
at home, We're really glad you're here. UM. No offense
to uh myself, Noel or Max, but we agree you
are the best part of this show, uh, and we
cannot wait to hear from you. So thanks as always
to our superproducer, Mr Max Williams, Thanks of course to
Casey Pegram and Noel. Thanks to you. You know, one
(29:38):
thing you could you one thing we can say about
Ridiculous History is that, at no point in the history
of our show have we ever been responsible for a
tiger getting let loose into a city, unless unless I
missed an email. No, I think we can definitely say
that with confidence. Um uh and nothing even remote we
(30:00):
approaching that level of irresponsibility. So good on us, Ben,
good on us, and good on you Ridiculous Historians for
making it through this two part episode. Uh, it was
a journey for sure, and we're glad to have taken
it together. You can, in fact find us on the internet. Well,
you have a Facebook group, it's called Ridiculous Historians. Check
that out. And while you're on the internet, why not
(30:21):
pop on over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a
five star glowing review. Name us by name, tell tell
us how much you you you you enjoy our company
as much as we enjoy yours, hopefully, And if you don't, then,
you know, just take the rabbits advice from Bambi. And
if you don't have anything nice to say, just you know,
don't say say anything. Leave us to our review and
move on. And of course, uh, big, big thanks to
(30:43):
one of our our favorite tigers loose on the streets
of Atlanta as we speak, the quister, Mr Jonathan Strickland.
Also shout out to our good pals at Ridiculous Romance,
Eli and Diana. Give them a listen. Max, you listen
to this show recently. You were telling me about that
at uh you were telling me about that while we
were at a hot dice game. I think, yes, yes, yes,
(31:05):
a hot dice game at our company Christmas party. That
took ay Uber down and I was like, I was
listening to the podcast and you guys always say like, oh, yeah,
they're a lot funnier than us, and I was listening
to and I'm like, wow, they're way better producing a
podcast than me too, So this is all around a
better podcast. But you know, we're glad you guys keep
coming back here for us for some reason. Damn Max,
(31:29):
damn wait, No, we're you know what, We're okay too.
That's how we're gonna end it. We are okay too.
We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts for
(31:50):
my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
(00:27):
back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always
so much for tuning in. Tigers, Tigers, Tigers, Man, I
am excited about this. I hope are super producer. The
one and only Mr Max Williams is excited as well.
Who am I? I'm Ben Noel. Tigers Tigers, Tigers burning
(00:47):
bright or at least one burning pretty bright? Not in
the was it forest of the night? Been in the
streets of London town And what better introduction is there
for part two of our show on Charles jam Rock
in eighteen fifty seven, at the high point of his success,
he gets his crown jewel, a fully grown Bengal tiger
(01:12):
that came to England from the East Indies. This takes
us to that morning we talked about the very top,
the morning of October when the tiger and several other
large feelines by the way arrives at the Belt Street Nagerie.
It arrives in London and it immediately escapes because it's
(01:34):
in this large crate that has um. If you picture,
it's got three solid wood sides and then it's got
one side with thick iron vertical bars across the front,
and jam Rock has gone to this place in person
because he wants to supervise the logistics of moving this
(01:55):
tiger from its transport crate to its permanent enclosure. And
so he says, Okay, let's position the crate so the
bars are placed against the wall of the yard while
we're getting its permanent home ready. And that sounded pretty safe, right,
You got iron bars, you got it against the wall.
(02:16):
But the thing is, jam Rock didn't have a lot
of experience with the power of a fully grown tiger.
And they're absolute beast and they're brilliant. I love tigers,
by the way, and they were gonna, as he says
later in an issue of a magazine called The Boy's
Own Papers, yes seventy nine, I love these titles, uh,
(02:39):
he says, he talks about this. He says, they mean
the workers were proceeding to take down a dead with
leopards when all of a sudden I heard a crash,
and to my horror, found the big tiger and pushed
out the back part of his dead with his hind quarters.
He kind of donkey kicked it, you know, and was
walking down the odd into the street. Which was then
(03:00):
full of people watching the arrival of this curious merchandise. Dude,
this reminds me of the opening scene of Jurassic Park,
you know, and they're like transporting the velociraptor paddock or whatever.
Maybe that was another up with the paddock of the
thing they're actually living. Um, this was like a grate,
you know, and then you sort of see all this
crawfuffle and then the thing gets out. You just hear
(03:20):
the sounds and then people are like, you know, murdered
or whatever. This is like a little bit less sci
fi version of that, but yeah, can you imagine seeing
this fully grown, absolutely monstrous tiger just kind of sauntering
down the high street? Yeah, yeah, that is a breathtaking image.
I think the closest I've seen to that is a
(03:41):
few years ago when a zebra got loose from the
Atlanta Zoo and was out in the city. Um, but
this this stuff does happen, uh, And a zebra is
still a wild animal, don't mess with them, but it's
not as likely to malu as a tiger. So this
is like, uh, increasingly escalating situation and just gets worse
(04:02):
and worse because the tiger who as you noticed, kind
of sauntering around like oh this is there's a different environment,
sees a nine year old boy. Because the boy, who
has also had no experience with the tiger to to
this kid, it's just a big cat. So he tries
to reach out and just give the cat a little pet.
(04:22):
As it's walking past, the tiger notices it. The tiger
turns and then uh, the the tiger slaps the kid
across the face, knocking him down, picks him up by
his jacket, and it just like starts dragging him down
the street. It's the shoulder of his jacket, I think.
(04:43):
And the kid is is freaking out. Uh. And then
jam Rock and again there might be some bias here
because jam Rock is telling his own story to the boy,
his own paper. Uh, he says, he springs into immediate action, Yeah,
he says. When I saw the boy being carried off
in this manner and witnessed the panic that had seized
hold of the people, without further thought, I dashed after
(05:06):
the brute. I was then of a more vigorous frame
than now, uh, and had plenty of pluck and dash
in me. So just again into like kind of like
sum up what was happening. We we say the tiger
had the boy in his mouth, but it's almost like cartoonist, right,
Like the tigers like holding the boy by like the
scruff of his jacket, right, and that's what's in his mouth,
(05:28):
and it's holding the boy up, but he has not
actually sunk his teeth into the actual you know kid,
in the kid's body. Um. So at this point it's
absolute pandemonium. The crowds dispersing, people are running for their lives.
Jam Rock, you know, sprinting in his more uh youthful
limber form as he put it, or vigorous rather sprinting
(05:48):
after the tiger. Um. He throws himself onto the tiger's back.
I mean, this is some pretty heavy type stuff if
it wasn't like, you know, his fault in the first place. Um.
And he grabs the tiger and by the scruff of
his neck, like I mean, that seems like a little
bit of a wasted effort. Uh. And and understandably it
doesn't do much. The tiger is incredibly strong and it's
(06:09):
like you know, mechanical bull style tosses jam Rock off
his back uh and into the streets and retains hold
of the boy in his teeth. Yeah, yeah, And so
this is a panic moment, uh Max, I know you've
got some action music here. This is a panic moment.
Jam Rock tries a second time to stop the tiger,
(06:31):
and this is when he gets creative. He tries to
trip it and it works, and you know, it's lost
to history about how he manages to trip it, but
I like to picture him just sticking his foot out.
But as the tiger falls to the ground, jam Rock
then jumps back on its back and he puts his
hands around its neck and he's trying to strangle it.
(06:52):
And as he's trying to put it to sleep, one
of the workers from his menagerie yard runs over and
hits it three times over the head with a crow
bar right between the eyes, and then this causes the
tiger to release the kid his jaws opened, and then
at this point jam Rock says, you know, I thought
(07:12):
the tiger was dead or it was dying, so I
let go of it. And as soon as I did,
it jumped back up again. And then he's like, oh no.
When he grabbed the crowbar, and he says, I gave
him with all the strength I had left a blow
over the head. He seemed quite cowed. He turned tail.
He went back towards the stables. I drove him into
the yard, closed the doors at once. Looking around for
(07:34):
my tiger, I found he snuck into a large empty den. Uh.
Two of my men had jumped into an elephant's box.
They descended. They pushed down the the iron, sighting for
the door, and so now the tiger was safely under
lock and key. The boy is uninjured. They say the
tiger is uninjured, but that tiger took three massive blows
(07:54):
to the head with a crow bar, just to give
you a sense of how rough these dudes are. Now, Listen,
I'm not like some kind of like with the top
Peter person. I believe in animal rights. Like obviously it's
a very very important thing. These are living creatures that
need to be treated with respect. I think sometimes the
Peter folks go a little far. But in this case,
this is literally a situation that was caused by jam
Rock himself and his capitalization and essentially victimization of these
(08:18):
creatures that would never have had to be dealt with
in this way if he hadn't to put them in
that situation in the first place. So essentially he was
Like I I used the word heroic earlier. That was
absolutely incorrect. I mean, the guy is essentially trying to
keep himself and having to deal with a pr nightmare
and in doing so, you know, absolutely bludgeoning to death
(08:39):
this uh, this incredible creature that he put in harm's
way and everyone else in harm's way because he took
this thing out of its normal context and it's not
meant to be roaming the streets of London or like
you know, traveling around him crates. Yeah, in my opinion,
the tiger here is just as much uh, the victim
(09:00):
as the boy. It's not the first time a tiger
had been loose on that same street. One escaped from
one of those traveling menagerie as we mentioned back in
eighteen thirty nine. George George Well womb Well that's his
real name, folks, George well womb Wells traveling Menagerie. Their
tiger got loose. Uh. Yeah, the kid just had some
(09:21):
scratches and probably a headache and a heck of a
story for his schoolmates. There is one interesting wrinkle. The
BBC points this out in uh When Wild Beast Roam
The UK BBC News piece. They note that, you know,
(09:44):
there was a lot of racism involved in the British
Empire at the time, and England in eighteen fifty seven
was in the grid of a panic because of the
Indian Mutiny, and a tiger was a symbol of India,
so it was an especially symbolic frightening thing to see
this tiger and loot loose in London, and one newspaper
(10:07):
account from the time even explicitly drew this connection. But
at this point, the tiger survived, jam Rocks survived, He
had a little bit of a Liam Nisson esque story
to tell his friends, and the child survived. But what
happens after Well, the boy's father sues jam Rock, and
(10:29):
jam Rock has to pay a grand total of three
hundred pounds sixty pounds compensation, two forty pounds legal costs.
We've got an inflation calculator on this, I think good. Yeah,
so about sixty pounds by today's standard would be about
(10:51):
seven grand, and two hundred and forty pounds would be
around twenty eight thousand, five hundred dollars. So at this way, Ben,
wouldn't you say that jam Rock himself because of his success? Uh?
And um relationships with all of these like super super
upper crest folks. He would have been pretty upper crest
at this point, right. Oh yeah, he was making money, yeah,
(11:12):
and was essentially protected from any real um ramifications for
this incident. This was an utter slap on the wrist
of that. Yeah, it's not breaking the bank for him
at all. Also, it's kind of it's darkly hilarious to
me that they're like, Okay, seven thousand dollars is are
sorry about the tiger money and uh, the almost thirty
(11:32):
thou dollars just administrative fees. You know, it's like buying
from ticketmaster. Uh, I said it. But the the judge, Uh,
it's interesting the point you made, because the judge himself
was conflicted because yeah, this is a dangerous incident. It
is jam Rock's fault. But he also said, you know,
(11:53):
this guy, on the other hand, should have been rewarded
for saving not just the life of this nine year old,
but maybe that of a lot other people. Because look,
I I don't know how in shape you are, but unarmed,
I guarantee you you cannot you cannot win a one
on one against the Tiger. Um A. Nope, not not
(12:14):
not in a foot race, not an arm wrestling, certainly
not in hand to paw combat. Uh, you are going
to lose. I just looked it up. Like according to Google,
like a Bengal tiger is like three ten to four pounds. Yeah,
this is a massive Like there are like of like
you know cats. This is about as big of a
cat as that comes. Yeah. Just uh yeah, just for perspective,
(12:37):
if you if you want to think of it this way.
A tiger is incredibly strong animal. It can carry something
like five hundred and fifty ms ten ft up a
tree for all of us in the US is one thousand,
two hundred and twelve pounds. That's what do you even lift? Cat? Bro?
(12:58):
You know what I mean, That's what the tiger would
ask you. So this is not the end of jam
rocks financial standing nor of his career. Like you said,
it doesn't break his bank. The tiger later gets sold
to that George Wombwell guy. And I've seen his name
as George Well Wombwell and George Wombwell, but I love
(13:19):
George Well womb Well, so I hope that's his real name. Uh.
This guy made money off of that incident. Just like
we said with the the earlier folks who said, oh
look this lie and actually killed someone. This is the
tiger that escaped and roamed the streets, menacing the good
people of London town. He even swallowed a bar whole.
(13:40):
Just ain't the whole boy? Yeah, I mean, let's let's
let's not that the facts stand on the way of
a good story, right exactly. And then jam Rock even
partners so he expands his collection. His business is still growing,
his client list is still growing. He eventually gets P. T.
Barnum as a client and helps Barnum restock his circus
(14:01):
after a fire. But while he is succeeding, his business
is succeeding in specific, in general, the exotic animal trade
is starting to die down. People are less and less
interested in exotic animals, or not as much as they
have been in the past. Jam Rock passes away of eight,
(14:23):
and just like what happened with his father, his son
Albert takes over after his death. But then we see
the outbreak of World War one. World War one absolutely
demolishes the international trade networks that made this animal trade possible.
So the company closes down and this ends the chapter. Well,
(14:46):
this ends the main chapter on the life of London's
Tiger King. He's gone, but he's very much not forgotten.
I'm so sorry to be the bearer of bad news,
but I do believe it was a type of the
gentleman's name is George Wombwell, not George Well walm Well,
but Well walm Well. Oh. I mean it needs to
(15:07):
be kept because it's incredible. I just wanted to make
sure people weren't googling it and beating their head against
the wall because you're not gonna find it. But uh,
it's a it's a fantastic type of that shell live
on in our hearts. Okay, listen, Well, I think we've
been at some logger heads in this episode. First I'm
gonna say those restaurants are named after Charles jam Rock,
and secondly, i'm gonna say his name was George Well Walmwell.
(15:27):
Because I want to live in a world with some magic,
and I want to live there with you, buddy, I
want to live there with you. Uh far be it
for me to suck any magic out of the world.
We need every little ounce that we can. But jam
rocks memory does remain today. You can find a statue
commemorating his contribution to the culture of Victoria, England. Uh.
(15:48):
And well, I guess I don't know if I would
can entirely call it selfless, but his rescue of that boy,
you know that he himself was responsible putting in harm's way.
There is a set even foots tall bronze tiger that
stands in the entrance to Tobacco Dock. Uh. And that's
very close to where the incident took place, and it's
memorialized also with like a little plaque. But this was
(16:10):
not the only time that jam Rocks business potentially threatened
the safety and well being of others, right, Oh yeah,
lions and tigers and bears, oh my, also raccoons so
so uh in eighteen seventies seven July of eighteen seventy seven,
(16:30):
there's his report in the East London Observer And you
can read this reference in a great article by london
This dot com that talks about how one of jam
Rocks other tigers escaped from a train on the London
and Northwestern Railway in a village called Whedon near Northampton. Uh.
And then three lions escaped from his shop and found
(16:53):
his wife Mary in a nearby parlor. Uh. He managed
to he managed to yell like marry lions in enough
time for her to close the door. Thanks hone, Thanks
good looking out that door there. Okay, okay, back to
back to what I was doing. Yeah, he he did.
(17:16):
He did manage to to lock all the lions back
up in a second bedroom, um where they stayed until
he was able to get a handler to come and
get them. Um, because he you know, well he was
I guess he he had a certain set of skills, right,
He was not necessarily a lion tamer or a handler.
He employed you know, folks that were much more hands
on with the with the animals. Um. But he did
(17:37):
seem to have to kind of jump to attention a
couple of times. And we also know that he had
a raccoon that was known to have escaped from his care.
Probably not didn't make quite as good a story. Um.
We know the raccoons are pretty pretty tricksy though, right.
They can like they get their little hands were crafty.
They can like unlatched doors and stuff I would imagine,
(17:57):
and they can walk, uh, they can walk bipedally. Briefly,
you've probably seen that video of a raccoon stealing cat
food in front of some cats. But when they do,
they always look like they're scheming. That's the thing about raccoons.
They look like the scheming. They look like they got
you know, they're always doing this kind of Monty Burns thing,
rubbing their hands together. Uh. I say that out of love,
(18:19):
but uh there there is something else interesting we found too,
which is an economic look at this. And I just
picked one example that I thought would be a fun
walk through. So we said he had a lot of stock.
He he had more than just tigers, he had zebras, leopards, ostriches, bears,
polar bears, et cetera. You name it. If the if
(18:41):
you had the scratch, he could probably get it for you.
So we found a article from the time that is
available at the East End dot code dot UK which
shows the prices of animals on offers, so you can
find those prices. And I just thought we could do
a quick example of this. So Nola Max Ny are
(19:04):
looking at this list and the prices seem kind of odd,
so I wanted to do a couple of steps. I
just took one example. So a polar bear, if you
wanted to buy one from jam Rock, was twenty five
pounds twenty five pounds nowadays is thirty three dollars and
five cents. So I thought, how much is thirty three
(19:27):
dollars and five cents in eighteen fifty seven? If we
can hit me with the book perfect, that is a
grand total of Now this is weird, guys. Get this.
That's a grand total of one thousand, fifty five dollars
and eight cents, which is less than like a high
(19:49):
end Mac laptop. So that's a crazy low price for
a polar Bear, right doesn't that seem Yeah, it does
seem low band, But it's sort of like owning a
Bugatti or something, right, Like, you buy the car, but
then there's this built in cost of ownership where you
have to take it to a certain you know, Bugatti
expert who does a certain type of you know regiment.
(20:11):
They can't be done just by any auto technician, um
such as the case. Can you imagine about how much
like meat you would have to buy all the time.
You don't just get polar bear food and feed it
once a day. I mean, it would be a whole thing.
So people that aren't considering that are going to have
a weird, emaciated and very angry and ravenous polar bear
on their hands. The most expensive of the things that
we have on menu here was, in fact the tiger,
(20:32):
which would have gone for around three hundred pounds at
the time, which today um would be in the what
tens of thousands? Yeah, so pound to a dollar And
this is not perfect because I'm doing the conversions for
the present pound of dollar difference, But three pounds today
would be three hundred ninety six dollars and sixty six
(20:53):
cents u s. Which means that in eighteen fifty seven
a tiger would cost you the elevalent of twelve thousand,
six hundred and seventy two dollars and fifty one cents,
which is still less than a lot of cars. It's
just like I was thinking of that maintenance point to
It's something a lot of people forget. It's like one
of the main reasons I don't own a dirigible um
(21:16):
or a tiger. Well, you gotta have somewhere to tie
it down first of all. Been and then like you know,
how do you how do you abort it? Yeah? Go, So,
how much was a porpoise from him? Because we established
you get a porpoise, right, We did not establish that
backs we we conjectured that it was entirely about he
didn't seem to deal in the sea creatures. I haven't
seen many of those. Have all these all seemed to
(21:37):
be land dwelling. And that's why he's because, oh wow,
well poor people can go see uh, can go observe
maritime creatures. So maybe that was maybe that was part
of his calculus there. Maybe he was like, I didn't
want to buy anything that the average peasant could just
(21:58):
observe from rocky shore somewhere, you know. I mean, I
bet he would have gotten into our walls. That's a
good point. It's a good I think the I think
they were believed to be mystical creatures for a very
long time. I personally thought they were mythical until literally
a year or so ago, didn't. I mean the unicorns, So,
I mean, it makes it makes sense for them to
be mythical, but they're not. Also, that's a tooth that's
(22:22):
not really a horn. That's one of their teeth. Yeah,
not very functional though. It's I mean, it's a definite.
It's a choice, I think is what we call. It's
a choice. It's weird. I mean, I I love I
love the ideas of UH. I love the ideas of
an intelligent design that just eventually gets into this freestyle
(22:43):
what do we have left over phase? You know with
the flat words? Yeah, how about a how about like
a sea cow that has one weird, giant, useless tooth.
We gotta make one more thing. What do we have? Well,
we got these uh, we got these like snake like insects,
and then we got like hundreds of feet Alright, find centipedes.
(23:06):
I'll just be a thing. So the fact that we
keep on finding out more stuff about the platypus blows that.
Like their bioluminescent now I know that that's what what?
Why do they have like everything weird about them? Yeah,
it's Australia. They're also poisonous. The very first menagerie that
(23:35):
was recorded, it goes way back, like you were saying earlier,
in old to the thirteenth century. The Tower of London
Menagerie UH was first entered in the historical record way
back in twelve ten CE, and it was known to
house these elephants, these lions, hippos. Probably one of their
most famous folks, like the Kobe of their team, was
(23:58):
a polar bear. Which would swim in the tims, which
I think is a cool sort of I think that's
a cool idea. But also I think we're about to
learn about one of the coolest jobs in London at
the time. Yeah. One. I'm wondering though at this time
where the were the famous Swans that some of the
Thames that are also notoriously ill tempered. Where they coexisting
(24:20):
with this polar bear at the time. I don't know.
I have to find out looking a little deeper, but yeah,
Alfred Copps was the keeper of the Tower Menagerie in
eighteen twenty two, and on his watch, one of his underlings,
a junior keeper, accidentally raised a door like an iron
door that separated a lion and a tiger and a tigress,
(24:42):
allowing them to you know, kind of com mingle into
each other's habitats and get into a massive brawl like
think like cartoon, you know, like dust brawl where you
see the one poor beaten down creature crawling out and
then h Paul reaches out and pulls back in by
its dale. That's totally how this went down, no question
(25:03):
about it. Um. They were separated using what is called
here in this article in the London isst hot rods,
but I assume that probably just means iron rods that
were heated to you know, the glowing heat, uh and
a fire. So again, very very brutal. But the lion
died a few days later from the injuries that staying
(25:24):
in the fight and also presumably maybe from being poked
with hot rods. It would be kind of interesting, if
highly anachronistic, if the hot rods were like race cars. Yeah,
I mean, you know, we can, we can, Michael bay
that one. Uh. We Also, I do want to take
one second that would tell tell you guys about a book.
(25:45):
We used to always be recommending um comic books and
and other books. But I was thinking about interesting jobs
in the Tower of London, and I've I've finished this
book earlier this year called The Raven Master, which is
all about the guy named Christopher Scaife whose entire job
is to be in charge of the famous ravens at
(26:07):
the Tower of London. It's a really cool read, and
I wonder if he would be an interesting person to interview.
Look at his fit man, Can guys see this on
the camera? Look at that? That's a flex? Oh obviously?
Oh yes, exactly. Those are the famous tower guards that
you can't get him to crack a smile. He uh he,
(26:27):
he writes like he is probably a lot of fun
to hang out with. But but yes, the Tower of
London is amazing. It has this history of interactions with animals,
and we know that there were more more problems with
the menagerie at the Tower of London. Uh what was
it like? The Leads Times that reported aid at large
(26:51):
and furious wolf had managed to escape the menagerie and
it was on its way to the drawbridge and they
had to like shut the gate down to stop it
from getting into the city. And then apparently it was
in such a bad mood that when people forced it
back into the tower, it found a nearby terrier dog
(27:12):
and picked it up and then just shook it around
and then let it go, Like Okay, but I know
it's not your fault. I was just I'm just not
having the best day. Yikes. Why is this series full
of like animals grabbing things and shaking them and letting
them go. A it's a it's a thing that animals are.
They're very into doing. Like you said, Ben, we are
(27:33):
both fond of our cats. Fond maybe being a strong word.
We definitely love them at there are times where they
might grab one of our prize possessions in their jaws
and shake them back and forth until exactly it's just
it's just part of who they are as creatures, and
we have to to learn to to live with it. Um,
but I am excited. I adopted a kitten earlier this
(27:53):
year and it is pretty much crossed over into no
longer a kitten territory. And while kittens are real cute,
they're also a resolutely feral and psychotic. And I'm super
happy that she's gotten a little bit more chill over
the last couple of months. So can congratulations to you
ven s A. You've you finally become a woman? Yeah,
my cat's kind of getting that way too. Um, she's
(28:13):
finally starting to get a little way from kidd into
a little more like adults. But she's also six and
a half, so late bloomer. Yeah, and I don't know
how much she's still Yeah. As always, folks, feel free
to go by ridiculous historians on Facebook and post pictures
of your pets bonus points if they look like they're
(28:34):
in some weird historical context. Uh, photoshop allowed. I'll say
photoshop allowed. It'll be like The Boy's Own Paper, which
was a mix of factual and fictional stories. I don't
know why I'm gonna be wondering about the title of
that magazine for the rest of the day. And we
have other stuff to do today, you know, like a
(28:55):
lot of people, we're we're working to close out the
books before the end to the year. But we have
had such a wonderful wild ride this year, despite a
global pandemic, despite you know, um, despite personal things that
have happened to us, and all of us listening along
(29:16):
at home, We're really glad you're here. UM. No offense
to uh myself, Noel or Max, but we agree you
are the best part of this show, uh, and we
cannot wait to hear from you. So thanks as always
to our superproducer, Mr Max Williams, Thanks of course to
Casey Pegram and Noel. Thanks to you. You know, one
(29:38):
thing you could you one thing we can say about
Ridiculous History is that, at no point in the history
of our show have we ever been responsible for a
tiger getting let loose into a city, unless unless I
missed an email. No, I think we can definitely say
that with confidence. Um uh and nothing even remote we
(30:00):
approaching that level of irresponsibility. So good on us, Ben,
good on us, and good on you Ridiculous Historians for
making it through this two part episode. Uh, it was
a journey for sure, and we're glad to have taken
it together. You can, in fact find us on the internet. Well,
you have a Facebook group, it's called Ridiculous Historians. Check
that out. And while you're on the internet, why not
(30:21):
pop on over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a
five star glowing review. Name us by name, tell tell
us how much you you you you enjoy our company
as much as we enjoy yours, hopefully, And if you don't, then,
you know, just take the rabbits advice from Bambi. And
if you don't have anything nice to say, just you know,
don't say say anything. Leave us to our review and
move on. And of course, uh, big, big thanks to
(30:43):
one of our our favorite tigers loose on the streets
of Atlanta as we speak, the quister, Mr Jonathan Strickland.
Also shout out to our good pals at Ridiculous Romance,
Eli and Diana. Give them a listen. Max, you listen
to this show recently. You were telling me about that
at uh you were telling me about that while we
were at a hot dice game. I think, yes, yes, yes,
(31:05):
a hot dice game at our company Christmas party. That
took ay Uber down and I was like, I was
listening to the podcast and you guys always say like, oh, yeah,
they're a lot funnier than us, and I was listening
to and I'm like, wow, they're way better producing a
podcast than me too, So this is all around a
better podcast. But you know, we're glad you guys keep
coming back here for us for some reason. Damn Max,
(31:29):
damn wait, No, we're you know what, We're okay too.
That's how we're gonna end it. We are okay too.
We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts for
(31:50):
my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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