February 13, 2025 • 38 mins
As Japan corners Russian forces in Port Arthur, the Tsar sends a new fleet of ships on a 7-month journey to break the barricade. In a stunning battle that alters the course of history, Japanese Admiral Tōgō Heihachirō executes a brilliant series of manuevers that remain some of the most thoroughly-studied maritime tactics in the entirety of naval history. In the second part of this week's two-part series, Ben, Noel and Max explore how Japan absolutely waxed the great Russian Empire in a conflict that, despite its short lifespan, fundamentally altered the course of the world overall.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, Fellow ridiculous Historians, Let's hear it for the
TZAR Ridiculous History podcasting super producer mister Max Williams hizzaar bizarre.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
That's no Brown, Ben, you're Ben Ben. B Where did
the term when when they talk about a something zar, right, Yeah,
like a border zar or a drug zar or whatever.
Where does that is that the same word or is
it a different word entirely?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
It's spelled c z a r when we're talking about
out the US version. When we're talking about the Russian version,
Russian royalty, it's zar ts ar yeah, yeah, And.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
They are the same in spirit. It's the idea of
being like overseeing something. It's just I just wonder what
the history of that term being used for political posts
came from. And also it seems like kind of like
a symbolic position in many ways, Like the idea of
being a borders are and getting blamed for problems with
the border almost seems like a little bit cruel, Like
(01:30):
is it really like what is that person even responsible for?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, it's usually one yeah, taking ownership and therefore responsibility
over a specific kind of policy or policy area edimologically
and yes, Max you know this too. Max hit us
up on the chat. Uh. Edamologically, it comes from Julius Caesar.
That's where sar comes from.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Uh, like calling pizza za. You know.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
There it is. It's funny in the US up until
this year, actually czar was an informal term. Uh. The
first person in a US government office with a formal
title Czar didn't come about until this year. All the
other times before it was it was like it might
(02:19):
as well been a corporate buzzword.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Almost seems sort of ceremonial in so many ways. So
like so essentially the current administration is formalizing that term.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, yeah, the current administration is formalizing it. It dates
back to, uh, I want to say, the days of
Franklin Roosevelt. Think of it like a governmental nickname, right, Uh.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
It makes sense. Sorry for that aside. It was just
something I wanted to sort out for my own edification.
Here we're talking about different kind of zar. Bizarre indeed, we're.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Cizar for that one. But no valuable information And it's
something that it's one of those questions that I think
a lot of us in the US are kind of
afraid to ask. And the last point I want to
make there is whatever I have heard the term czar
applied in the nomenclature of US government. I always think, oh,
(03:11):
you mean.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Scapegoat, You mean this guy I was getting it, Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Trouble yes, as as you said, well, speaking of getting
in trouble, this is part two of the time that
Japan absolutely walloped or as our pal doctor Ze says, rinsed.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
The left as yes.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah. Previously on Ridiculous History, we explored what led up
to the Russo Japanese War and how Japan outmaneuvered Russia
as both empires raced to control the region known as Manchuria,
(03:55):
and we we ended part one on a upnoe for
Japan and a very down note for Russia.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
That's right, and that conflict set the stage for the
aforementioned rinsing.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
We know that a lot of the battle hinged on
an area called Port Arthur. At the time when we
left you with hopefully still a dope beat to step two,
the Japanese Empire had encircled Port Arthur via land and
via sea. And now we return to our tail with
(04:41):
Port Arthur well in hand, the Japanese Empire can now
put even more energy toward conquering Manchuria. However, no matter
where you're fighting, no matter what your theater of conflict is,
in this wide world, you will all always have a
(05:01):
second potential enemy on the field, and that enemy is
the weather. The winter of nineteen oh five absolutely sucks
for everyone.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Man, the weather is the greatest villain of history in
many ways, We've got we've done so many stories about
the weather being an absolute pill and changing the course
of history.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yeah. Yeah, it's it's like how the real villain of
adult life is scheduling, and everybody's fighting against that. So
the weather is incredibly harsh in winter of nineteen oh five,
which means, without any official agreement, both the Russian and
(05:45):
the Japanese sides of this conflict decide not to directly
fight each other. They're just going to try to stay
alive through winter. And then well, it's it's exactly like
calling a long time out in a.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Sports exactly that thing you do with the t I'm
doing it right, yes, yeah, podcast listeners.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
And doing it well. And in Russian held territory there's
this massive repression of all the native people living in
uh in this area of Mantrea that they control, right,
that the Russians still control. So the Manchu population, the
Chinese population is looking around. They're saying, man, these Russian
(06:31):
guys are super harshing my vibe. I do not like
these people. They're violent, they're brutal. Maybe the Japanese Empire
isn't that bad, you know. So locals would go to
Japanese intelligence forces and they would say, Okay, we don't
(06:53):
agree with everything Japanese Empire, but we do agree on this.
The Russians are not cool. So here is where they're
going to be positioned. Here's some information about their troop movements.
Help us out.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
And there is this pervasive, pretty nasty strain of anti
East Asian racism sentiment, whatever you want to call it.
It was gross called collectively referred to as the Yellow Peril,
which is awful, and gave onlookers collectively in the greater
(07:29):
world something to sort of support Russia over since they
were attempting to defeat what was seen as a part
of this you know, maligned community. Right.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, the idea that was very common in European circles
or Western circles at the time, it was a specific
type of weaponized racism, and all racism can be weaponized, right,
And they said, the existence of any Asiatic community, any
(08:07):
East Asian nation, it fundamentally is an existential threat to
the West. They want to destroy us. Therefore, whatever we
do to them is not a war crime, it's not
an act of horror. It is a preemptive protective measure
for us, the whites of the West. And this is
(08:30):
I'm laughing because this is very dark stuff. This allowed
Russian soldiers, the psychological parkour, the rationalization, to commit so
many atrocities. Imagine a bad thing that a soldier could
do to a civilian, and Kassack Cossack cavalry divisions were
(08:53):
doing this. They would just rock up into a sleepy
Manchu village and they would kill as many people as
they can and burn as many buildings as they could reach.
So of course the local populations thought the Japanese were better.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Well, if I'm not mistaken, just in general, historically speaking,
the Cossacks are remembered kind of for their war criminess,
for their viciousness in the field of battle, right, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
And we don't have to get too into the weeds
on the different back and forth conflicts that Russian and
Japanese forces had, But we can tell you they began
when the weather lifted up, so around February of nineteen
oh five, heavy casualties on both sides. We're talking tens
(09:45):
of thousands, almost one hundred thousand people, and ultimately the
Japanese Empire is unable to consummate its conquest or to
fully complete the control of Manchuri. So they launch in
July an invasion of a place called Sakkalin Island, and
(10:09):
this is a victory for them. This is the end
of land operations during the war. The Russian army and
navy lost every significant battle, but the Japanese still had
to wait for an official decision on Russia's end. Was
(10:29):
from the Tzar, Yeah, from the Tsar Tsar Sar. Was
he going to surrender? What was Niki going to do?
We have to remember all this time, Niki has a well,
I's call him Nikki. Nikki has a Nikki two Nikki
two uh electric boogaloo, Russian boogaloo.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
He has.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
He has a h He still has that fleet right
that got cut off from the Suez Canal to go
around the Cape of Good Hope, fighting to get every
piece of coal they can. They're still sailing to the
Far East. They get there in May of nineteen o
five to reinforce Nikki's armies. Now at this point you
(11:15):
might say, reasonably, well, what about the Great trans Siberian Railway?
Why couldn't they just what it?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Then? What about it old?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Why couldn't they just ship soldiers by rail? Unfortunately there
were some hard limitations on how that railway could operate
at the time. Still, eventually that second fleet gets there,
the railway brings what it can. So it came to
pass that by spring of nineteen oh five, Imperial Russian
(11:44):
forces had the numbers, They had the numerical advantage over
Japanese forces in Manchuria.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
But then.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
There was the nineteen oh five revolution. How loyal was
the Russian army and how many members of the Russian
army were going? Man, is Niki cool? I don't know
if he's cool? Why do you send us all the
way out here to fight for a cause that doesn't
really affect us? You know what I mean? War? What
(12:16):
is it good for other than and electric bogl uh
So this descent is spreading through the Russian Army, and
Niki is waiting to see how the dice roll out.
When his second fleet tangles with the Japanese Navy. This
(12:41):
brings us to the Battle of Sushima. And I'm gonna
be honest. For a lot of us in the West, folks,
please don't judge us too harshly. A lot of us
only know about Tsushima as a as a place, as
a concept because of the ex the video game Ghost
(13:01):
of Sushima.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, that's like the Wondering Samurai game, right.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, and it's an awesome game if you like games, Yeah,
it's wonderful. It's one you can replay. The Battle of
Sushima is a very different thing, and it shows us.
As we get into it, we'll see that there's a
lot of strategy at play. We mentioned Admiral Togo in
(13:26):
part one. He is aware that this Baltic fleet is
coming because, as you so beautifully put it earlier, Nol,
the clock is ticking for that Baltic fleet, but the
clock's also ticking for Admiral Togo.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
That's right. And Ben, I gotta admit here, completely come clean.
I didn't know that the Maru as a suffix existed
historically outside of the Star Trek universe. We've got a
couple of converted cruisers that were dispatched by Togo called
the Hong Kong Maru and the Nipon Mahru. And if
(14:02):
I'm not mistaken, Nipon just means Japan, right mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yes, yeah, you're correct.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
And what does Maru mean in this concept? What's the
one for the Star Trek one that represents a conundrum.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Kobyashi Maru the unsolvable problem?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
And is that a ship in Star Trek.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I have to defer to our friend Max there. I
just know what to give us the beg.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
On that one, Max, the Kobe Mau.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I do not believe it is a ship or maybe
you know. I actually I don't, not that I can't
think of one by the name of that. But that
appears in Star Trek The Wrath of Khan, which is
the second movie. Is they're one of the most famous ones,
but uh, it is actually very central to the plots.
At the beginning of the movie. It's actually Christially who's
in a training set like training trying to do the thing.
(14:45):
The joke is there's only been one person who's ever.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Passed that test.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
The Kobeesh Maru. It was Kirk and he cheated.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
And that's Captain James T.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Kirk and Admiral James D.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Kirk actually and.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
By that point, yes, but he's best known as Captain
in the original Star Trek series.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Oh no, no, it says it's a spacecraft. It says
here it is a fictional spacecraft in the Star Trek continuity.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
So in the exercise, the Kobyashi Maru is a civilian
ship that is marooned on the wrong side of the
neutral zone with the Klingons. So, and they're being attacked
by the Klingons. So you either have to go into space,
go into the Klingon space and rescue the Kobyash Maru
staring your own ship, or abandon them. So the lose
(15:29):
louse situation.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Right, an unwinnable scenario. And let's get that instrumental max
with the facts on that one.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Oh we must. And let's also just say I think
we answered my question here. It would seem that that
is a reference to the way the Japanese named their
war vessels.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yes, Maru means circle essentially, okay uh, And this is
so we have we've solved that when folks, we know
that Togo is figure, it's important to remember it, right.
(16:27):
He's aware of this ticking clock as well. He needs
to figure out where this Baltic fleet is at and
when they will arrive in the THEATA, which we cannot
pronounce any other way than THEATA. And so uh, he
sends he's got all these intel operations, all this spooky
stuff going on as far as he can reach. And
(16:50):
he also dispatches two cruisers as you mentioned, uh, and
they get all the way out to I want to say,
the Indian Ocean, and there's another one that gets to
the Philippines. And then he sends even more cruisers patrolling
areas around Hong Kong, Indonesia, and Singapore from February to
(17:11):
April of five. And this is all to sort of
build you know, the way we could say it. And
Alex Tijuana Williams would agree with me. Here, if you've
ever been camping and you want to set up some
kind of security perimeter, you guys, remember the thing where
you take like cans and string and sort of tie
(17:34):
them around trees that encircle your campsite. Have you ever
heard of that?
Speaker 3 (17:38):
No?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Is this a way of defending yourself against like bears
or wildlife.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
It lets you know when something is coming because the
cans will make a noise.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Of course, of course, of course, of course makes a
jingle jangle. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
So he's sort of doing a maritime version of that
on a much more expensive and dangerous scale. And one
of the patrol ships that were converted for the job,
A lot of these were merchant ships in peacetime. One
of the patrol ships south of the Korean Strait cites
the enemy on May twenty seventh, early in the morning
(18:12):
the wee hours. But they still have no information about
what the Baltic fleet is planning to do, where they're
going to go. And Togo is incredibly confused about this
because bad information is still better than no information.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
And the Admiralty in Tokyo, the control ultimate controlling force
of the navy. They get a telegram that is supposedly
from Togo. But here's the thing, Admiral Togo never sent it.
And the telegram, yeah, a little bit of conspiracy's happening here.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Bad.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Yeah. Yeah, Well, well, as as you and I know,
the telegram says to leadership, the fleet is not going
to move unless the enemy is cited within a specific time,
and Tokyo said, okay, this means that our guy, our boy,
Togo is going to move to the north, and he's
(19:16):
going to wait for the enemy to come through the
northern strait and then smack him. And they reply back
and they say, no, don't move north, just stay at Masampo,
which is your base for the battle. We all think
it's going to take place in Tsushima. I don't know.
It seems like a lot of later historians and analysts
(19:37):
are pretty sure that that was a misstep.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
But who sent the telegram? That's the thing is.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
It was it someone working for him and everybody was
just nervous and in the fog of war and trying
to move quickly. Was it an act a very clever
act of espionage. Ah, The latter is more interesting, but
the former is more plausible. Maybe it's true true.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Togo, however, remained relatively calm in the face of this
unfortunate move. When he got news that the enemy had
been sighted, he and his fleet sailed out from Masampo
toward O Kinoshima, which was east of Sushima. This was
(20:25):
meant to be the likely sight of a naval battle. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, and Togo decided it's time to it's time to
rally the troops, and he said, the fate of the
empire depends on the issue of this battle. Let every
man do his utmost. The Russians are coming, essentially, and
the Russian fleet is approaching Sushima. And as they're approaching,
(20:55):
Togo changes course and he looks like he's going to
he looks like he's trying to pass the Russians by.
Then all of a sudden, he makes a sharp turn
and his number one and number two striking forces follow
his main ship. This is now known as the Togo Turn,
(21:16):
and it is famous in military history.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah, and it's not really a term that is meant
to be taken positively, if I'm not mistaken. This was
considered a bit of a brash, borderline dumb maneuver, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
At first it was Yeah, now it's one of those
things that's considered like a legendary chess move. It looked
so dumb at first, and then people realized what Togo
was actually planning. It allowed him to have his full
the position of his striking forces at full broadside firing position,
(21:54):
and it put his fleet in front of the Baltic fleet.
This is something that the Japanese Navy would later study
in depth. Again, we'll skip over the firing of this
but ridiculous historians. We have to realize that this is
such a power in maritime history that historians are still
(22:17):
studying the minute that someone fired on someone else.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, and speaking of historians, there is an incredibly in
depth I guess you could call it like an academic
paper from Naval Historical Society of Australia, specifically about the
Battle of Tushima of nineteen oh five by Kubata k
which you can find in Navyhistory dot AU. And speaking
(22:44):
of down to the minute, this article uses like military
time down to the minute to talk about and analyze
some of these very tricksy moves by General Admiral Rather Togo.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yes, so do check that out. Is available for free
audi line. We are going to just tell you, as
Noel said, that it is very thorough. It is an
exhaustive study. It's one of the best of its kind
about this pivotal moment in maritime war. And the result
of the Battle of Tsushima was by all measures decisive,
(23:21):
that's right.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, there was no question as to who the victor
was here, thirty eight Russian ships were involved in the battle,
and only a single transport and two battleship destroyers rather
reached their final positions in where they were headed Vadivostok,
of course, which was that seasonal port. So I'm going
to keep referring to it as one of the converted
(23:44):
cruisers that was steam powered managed to kind of limp
its way back to Kronstadt, and the remaining thirty four
ships were absolutely obliterated, either sunken or captured by Japanese forces.
Are they were interned in other ports that weren't neutral
to the conflict.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, yeah, and this is due to Togo's brilliance as
a tactician. That one ship that escapes, that converted cruiser
just you know, Crowdstut is a port in like adjacent
to Saint Petersburg, So they limped all the way back home,
(24:27):
and yeah, you can arrest ships they in turned the
ships they didn't destroy. On the other side, Togo only
lost three torpedo boats while literally annihilating two entire fleets
of Russian navy. That's why it's regarded as the greatest
naval victory in modern history.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
That's right. Doctor Z points out that this incredibly decisive
victory by Japan and the Battle of Tushima more or
less ushered in a brand new style, an era really
of geopolitical maneuvering, and set the stage for a lot
of future conflicts and mediation.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yes, yeah, exactly. The Battle of Tsushima does not automatically
end the war, but it inspires Japan to push for
peace negotiations. Right, we're in a good position. We just
did some bonkers, crazy successful stuff. So while we're at
an advantageous position, let's negotiate. Let's get that surrender. And
(25:34):
you know, we have to remember that war is hell,
and war is also expensive. So the country of Japan
is exhausted militarily, financially. It swung above its weight class arguably,
and that high risk led to a high reward. They
created in the peace negotiations a permanence to their control
(26:02):
of Manchuria. And they said, look, Saint Petersburg, let's just
let's hash this.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Up's hug it out.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Let's say good Jigi, easy, good gaming, guys. So on
June first, nineteen oh five, the Japanese representative to the
United States came to President Teddy Roosevelt and said, hey,
can you come in, will you smooth over this? And
you know, will you talk to the Russians for us?
(26:35):
Because they're they're kind of mad at us.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
They're a little cranky, those Cossacks. They're fiery tempers, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
And Russia was originally not going to play ball. They
were not going to go to a negotiation table. But
thanks to Teddy's intervention, thanks with Roosevelt's support, the Japanese
did decide they're going to occupy the large island that
we mentioned earlier, Sakalon, which is the nearest Russian territory,
(27:06):
and the fighting still continues until August when the last
Russian garrison there surrenders. At this point, Japan's image has improved.
(27:26):
This is crazy branding, right, The United States in particulars like,
look at these guys, you know, look how crazy awesome
they are. And because the eyes of the world are
on them, the great Western powers are finally in Japan's
mind seeing them as a possible great power. They got
to worry about the optics.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
That's right. They showed some benevolence, didn't there. They were
kind more or less considering conditions to their captives, right.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yeah, yeah, they wanted the rest of the world to say, look,
this is how we treat POW's. We're not necessarily beheading people.
The wars over, We're not having a big to do
with parades and victory marches and all this stuff. We're
playing nice.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
And the in Togo even go to see his convalescing
rival in the hospital.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yes, yeah, he sure did, And we have a great
quote from their conversation.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Indeed, defeat is an accident to the lot of all
fighting men, and there is no occasion to be cast
down by it if we have done our duty. I
can only express my admiration for the courage with which
your sailors fought during the recent battle, and my personal
admiration of yourself, who carried out your heavy task until
(28:47):
you were seriously wounded.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yeah, which is a very classy thing to say.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
It's magnanimous. Yeah, that's the right word. It's at the
very least shows empathy, and it is a very human
way of speaking to one's enemy.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
And he's speaking to the wounded Russian Vice Admiral Zenovi
rules Hyssvinsky and well done.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Then I couldn't have even attempted that.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Thank you, I did mispronounce it, So this okay, he
mispronounced it with a plump thank you. So this is
this is yet more propaganda, even though Togo honestly, from
what we know about Togo, he probably did mean it sincerely.
He probably was saying this from a place of great
(29:32):
regard and respect, and he meant it to be private.
It sounds like he really meant it to be private.
You know, shake of the hand, I acknowledge you as
an equal, and you know, things could have turned out
completely differently. Who will know. But it is valuable PR
(29:54):
because this happens six days after the Immortal Battle, and
it comes it becomes a talking point, a lightning rod.
You see all these visual records and text about this,
and then right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Isn't this essentially like an example of kind of like
the way more modern wars are fought on multiple fronts.
There's like sort of the coverage angle, the idea of
embedded journalists, and sort of the like PR side of
a war. This seems to be sort of like a
approaching that more modern, you know, style of warfare, right
h yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
And then they they also release a hospital They also
release one of the hospital ships that have been captured,
and they say, hey, go check on your folks, collect
any wounded Russian soldiers they're still in the area. And
to your point, this is another aspect of the conflict, right,
(30:55):
there is another knock on consequence because these gestures, sincere
or not all were leading to the creation of the
image the Japanese Empire wanted at the time, a victorious
nation that is also compassionate. You know what I mean.
(31:16):
In short, we are the good guys. Look at us.
We're not sore winners. And once this once this takeover
the island is complete, and once these conversations between the
admirals occur and the hospital ship is released, the road
to a peace treaty is much easier. President Roosevelt is
(31:38):
hosting so throws.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
His hat in the ring as mediator, right, but doesn't
he doesn't don't They politely decline?
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Ah, he says. He says, guys, come hang out with
me in New Hampshire. You'll you'll love it. It's the
Granite State.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
It's beautiful this time of year.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Believes are beautiful. So eventually Russian negotiators say, okay, it's
it's going to be less painful to go through diplomatic
means than it will be to go through another armed struggle,
especially because we just got our butts handed to us,
and we are going to accept the majority of Japanese
(32:18):
conditions or demands for peace. The Czar Nikki two says,
we are not going to reject a claim for indemnity.
We're going to offer We'll say that we recognize Japan's
control of the southern half of Sakkolan Island, and the
(32:42):
Japanese forces said, okay, yeah, deal. So they signed the
Treaty of Portsmouth on September fifth, nineteen oh five, ending
a war that lasted nineteen months.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
But if I'm not mistaken, Ben, this didn't go over
particularly well with the Japanese public, despite the Japanese being,
you know, the victors and receiving the you know, most
of the benefits of the treaty terms. I guess the
idea was that they should have been paid reparations of
(33:15):
some kind, that Russia would yield to every single Japanese
demand without negotiation, and there was some kind of public
backlash and the way it was reported and the way
the public responded.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Yeah, yeah, you absolutely nailed it. The people themselves felt betrayed.
And it's a phrase you can see in newspapers of
the time because on their end, you know, the civilians
there are going through so much economic strain. They've lost
a lot of loved ones in this war that lasted
(33:48):
nineteen months and to the on the day the treaty
was concluded, we see a public outcry. I wasn't aware
of this at first. Thirty thousand demonstrators gathered in Tokyo,
and they eventually rioted and for a while martial law
(34:08):
had to be.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
I believe that. I'm sure you're familiar with a park
and it was known as the Habia Riots.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yes, Yes, known as the Habia Riots. And that comes
to us from the Asia Pacific Journal, is where we're
pulling some of this information from. And that, fellow ridiculous historians,
is the story of how the Nation of Japan, the
Empire of Japan, once upon a time, absolutely rinsed the
(34:37):
largest land empire in the world.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Dowst juiced wa frombade saute juliennes. Perhaps's lunch im hungry,
you know, I mean, despite this public backlash in Japan,
in fact, Prime Minister at the time, Katsura Taro's cabinet
would ultimately crumble as a result of this. It's my
(35:02):
understanding it was ultimately seen through the lens of history
as a resounding success.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
And with that we would love to preemptively thank our
super producer mister Max Williams for a resounding success editing
this episode. We'd also like to thank all of you
fellow ridiculous historians for joining us on this journey. Again,
there's a lot more information out there for fellow war
(35:34):
Nerds fans of war history please check out not just
the nuts and bolts and mechanics and back and forths
of this conflict, but the context that led to it,
right and how the consequences of these battles in this
war paved the way for other conflicts in the future.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Surey, it really did. The ruster Japanese War large kind
of ushered in a new era of modern warfare, and
the way it was covered in the way like kind
of the world saw conflicts like this moving forward. Pretty
interesting stuff. So there's definitely a lot more context to
be had, but huge thanks to our reach associet on
(36:16):
this episode, these episodes, Doctor Z thanks to Alex Williams Alex,
what Is It Tijuana Williams, who composed our theme.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
And big thanks to the one and only Aj Bahamas Jacobs,
who runs a fantastic show called The Puzzler wrote an
excellent book about living constitutionally. A huge fan please check
it out. It's such a big another one about living biblically.
M M yeah, yeah, he will find Aj Bahamas Jacobs
(36:48):
will find the most fascinating way to explore history. We're
super whim. We'd love having him on the show. He's
had us on his show a couple of times, and
speaking to people who have been on the show, we
do have some terrible news, and we don't want to
end on terrible news, but it's really important. Jonathan Strickland
(37:10):
aka the Quist, will be returning to the show very soon.
We fought against it, but it is in the peace negotiation,
so it's one of the terms we agree to.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I think it's actually going to happen in a pretty
interesting scenario, as all the old Jay strick would say,
where the three of us are going to be quite
far abroad together. We'll talk more about that when the
time comes, but.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
It's quite close together now.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
We're making it still together and far Aflung from from
the rest of the world that we know, little teez.
We'll say you more about that soon. In the meantime,
we'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
(37:59):
to your favor Rich shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, Fellow ridiculous Historians, Let's hear it for the
TZAR Ridiculous History podcasting super producer mister Max Williams hizzaar bizarre.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
That's no Brown, Ben, you're Ben Ben. B Where did
the term when when they talk about a something zar, right, Yeah,
like a border zar or a drug zar or whatever.
Where does that is that the same word or is
it a different word entirely?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
It's spelled c z a r when we're talking about
out the US version. When we're talking about the Russian version,
Russian royalty, it's zar ts ar yeah, yeah, And.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
They are the same in spirit. It's the idea of
being like overseeing something. It's just I just wonder what
the history of that term being used for political posts
came from. And also it seems like kind of like
a symbolic position in many ways, Like the idea of
being a borders are and getting blamed for problems with
the border almost seems like a little bit cruel, Like
(01:30):
is it really like what is that person even responsible for?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, it's usually one yeah, taking ownership and therefore responsibility
over a specific kind of policy or policy area edimologically
and yes, Max you know this too. Max hit us
up on the chat. Uh. Edamologically, it comes from Julius Caesar.
That's where sar comes from.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Uh, like calling pizza za. You know.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
There it is. It's funny in the US up until
this year, actually czar was an informal term. Uh. The
first person in a US government office with a formal
title Czar didn't come about until this year. All the
other times before it was it was like it might
(02:19):
as well been a corporate buzzword.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Almost seems sort of ceremonial in so many ways. So
like so essentially the current administration is formalizing that term.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, yeah, the current administration is formalizing it. It dates
back to, uh, I want to say, the days of
Franklin Roosevelt. Think of it like a governmental nickname, right, Uh.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
It makes sense. Sorry for that aside. It was just
something I wanted to sort out for my own edification.
Here we're talking about different kind of zar. Bizarre indeed, we're.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Cizar for that one. But no valuable information And it's
something that it's one of those questions that I think
a lot of us in the US are kind of
afraid to ask. And the last point I want to
make there is whatever I have heard the term czar
applied in the nomenclature of US government. I always think, oh,
(03:11):
you mean.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Scapegoat, You mean this guy I was getting it, Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Trouble yes, as as you said, well, speaking of getting
in trouble, this is part two of the time that
Japan absolutely walloped or as our pal doctor Ze says, rinsed.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
The left as yes.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah. Previously on Ridiculous History, we explored what led up
to the Russo Japanese War and how Japan outmaneuvered Russia
as both empires raced to control the region known as Manchuria,
(03:55):
and we we ended part one on a upnoe for
Japan and a very down note for Russia.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
That's right, and that conflict set the stage for the
aforementioned rinsing.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
We know that a lot of the battle hinged on
an area called Port Arthur. At the time when we
left you with hopefully still a dope beat to step two,
the Japanese Empire had encircled Port Arthur via land and
via sea. And now we return to our tail with
(04:41):
Port Arthur well in hand, the Japanese Empire can now
put even more energy toward conquering Manchuria. However, no matter
where you're fighting, no matter what your theater of conflict is,
in this wide world, you will all always have a
(05:01):
second potential enemy on the field, and that enemy is
the weather. The winter of nineteen oh five absolutely sucks
for everyone.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Man, the weather is the greatest villain of history in
many ways, We've got we've done so many stories about
the weather being an absolute pill and changing the course
of history.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yeah. Yeah, it's it's like how the real villain of
adult life is scheduling, and everybody's fighting against that. So
the weather is incredibly harsh in winter of nineteen oh five,
which means, without any official agreement, both the Russian and
(05:45):
the Japanese sides of this conflict decide not to directly
fight each other. They're just going to try to stay
alive through winter. And then well, it's it's exactly like
calling a long time out in a.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Sports exactly that thing you do with the t I'm
doing it right, yes, yeah, podcast listeners.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
And doing it well. And in Russian held territory there's
this massive repression of all the native people living in
uh in this area of Mantrea that they control, right,
that the Russians still control. So the Manchu population, the
Chinese population is looking around. They're saying, man, these Russian
(06:31):
guys are super harshing my vibe. I do not like
these people. They're violent, they're brutal. Maybe the Japanese Empire
isn't that bad, you know. So locals would go to
Japanese intelligence forces and they would say, Okay, we don't
(06:53):
agree with everything Japanese Empire, but we do agree on this.
The Russians are not cool. So here is where they're
going to be positioned. Here's some information about their troop movements.
Help us out.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
And there is this pervasive, pretty nasty strain of anti
East Asian racism sentiment, whatever you want to call it.
It was gross called collectively referred to as the Yellow Peril,
which is awful, and gave onlookers collectively in the greater
(07:29):
world something to sort of support Russia over since they
were attempting to defeat what was seen as a part
of this you know, maligned community. Right.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, the idea that was very common in European circles
or Western circles at the time, it was a specific
type of weaponized racism, and all racism can be weaponized, right,
And they said, the existence of any Asiatic community, any
(08:07):
East Asian nation, it fundamentally is an existential threat to
the West. They want to destroy us. Therefore, whatever we
do to them is not a war crime, it's not
an act of horror. It is a preemptive protective measure
for us, the whites of the West. And this is
(08:30):
I'm laughing because this is very dark stuff. This allowed
Russian soldiers, the psychological parkour, the rationalization, to commit so
many atrocities. Imagine a bad thing that a soldier could
do to a civilian, and Kassack Cossack cavalry divisions were
(08:53):
doing this. They would just rock up into a sleepy
Manchu village and they would kill as many people as
they can and burn as many buildings as they could reach.
So of course the local populations thought the Japanese were better.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Well, if I'm not mistaken, just in general, historically speaking,
the Cossacks are remembered kind of for their war criminess,
for their viciousness in the field of battle, right, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
And we don't have to get too into the weeds
on the different back and forth conflicts that Russian and
Japanese forces had, But we can tell you they began
when the weather lifted up, so around February of nineteen
oh five, heavy casualties on both sides. We're talking tens
(09:45):
of thousands, almost one hundred thousand people, and ultimately the
Japanese Empire is unable to consummate its conquest or to
fully complete the control of Manchuri. So they launch in
July an invasion of a place called Sakkalin Island, and
(10:09):
this is a victory for them. This is the end
of land operations during the war. The Russian army and
navy lost every significant battle, but the Japanese still had
to wait for an official decision on Russia's end. Was
(10:29):
from the Tzar, Yeah, from the Tsar Tsar Sar. Was
he going to surrender? What was Niki going to do?
We have to remember all this time, Niki has a well,
I's call him Nikki. Nikki has a Nikki two Nikki
two uh electric boogaloo, Russian boogaloo.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
He has.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
He has a h He still has that fleet right
that got cut off from the Suez Canal to go
around the Cape of Good Hope, fighting to get every
piece of coal they can. They're still sailing to the
Far East. They get there in May of nineteen o
five to reinforce Nikki's armies. Now at this point you
(11:15):
might say, reasonably, well, what about the Great trans Siberian Railway?
Why couldn't they just what it?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Then? What about it old?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Why couldn't they just ship soldiers by rail? Unfortunately there
were some hard limitations on how that railway could operate
at the time. Still, eventually that second fleet gets there,
the railway brings what it can. So it came to
pass that by spring of nineteen oh five, Imperial Russian
(11:44):
forces had the numbers, They had the numerical advantage over
Japanese forces in Manchuria.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
But then.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
There was the nineteen oh five revolution. How loyal was
the Russian army and how many members of the Russian
army were going? Man, is Niki cool? I don't know
if he's cool? Why do you send us all the
way out here to fight for a cause that doesn't
really affect us? You know what I mean? War? What
(12:16):
is it good for other than and electric bogl uh
So this descent is spreading through the Russian Army, and
Niki is waiting to see how the dice roll out.
When his second fleet tangles with the Japanese Navy. This
(12:41):
brings us to the Battle of Sushima. And I'm gonna
be honest. For a lot of us in the West, folks,
please don't judge us too harshly. A lot of us
only know about Tsushima as a as a place, as
a concept because of the ex the video game Ghost
(13:01):
of Sushima.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, that's like the Wondering Samurai game, right.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, and it's an awesome game if you like games, Yeah,
it's wonderful. It's one you can replay. The Battle of
Sushima is a very different thing, and it shows us.
As we get into it, we'll see that there's a
lot of strategy at play. We mentioned Admiral Togo in
(13:26):
part one. He is aware that this Baltic fleet is
coming because, as you so beautifully put it earlier, Nol,
the clock is ticking for that Baltic fleet, but the
clock's also ticking for Admiral Togo.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
That's right. And Ben, I gotta admit here, completely come clean.
I didn't know that the Maru as a suffix existed
historically outside of the Star Trek universe. We've got a
couple of converted cruisers that were dispatched by Togo called
the Hong Kong Maru and the Nipon Mahru. And if
(14:02):
I'm not mistaken, Nipon just means Japan, right mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yes, yeah, you're correct.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
And what does Maru mean in this concept? What's the
one for the Star Trek one that represents a conundrum.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Kobyashi Maru the unsolvable problem?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
And is that a ship in Star Trek.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I have to defer to our friend Max there. I
just know what to give us the beg.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
On that one, Max, the Kobe Mau.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I do not believe it is a ship or maybe
you know. I actually I don't, not that I can't
think of one by the name of that. But that
appears in Star Trek The Wrath of Khan, which is
the second movie. Is they're one of the most famous ones,
but uh, it is actually very central to the plots.
At the beginning of the movie. It's actually Christially who's
in a training set like training trying to do the thing.
(14:45):
The joke is there's only been one person who's ever.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Passed that test.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
The Kobeesh Maru. It was Kirk and he cheated.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
And that's Captain James T.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Kirk and Admiral James D.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Kirk actually and.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
By that point, yes, but he's best known as Captain
in the original Star Trek series.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Oh no, no, it says it's a spacecraft. It says
here it is a fictional spacecraft in the Star Trek continuity.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
So in the exercise, the Kobyashi Maru is a civilian
ship that is marooned on the wrong side of the
neutral zone with the Klingons. So, and they're being attacked
by the Klingons. So you either have to go into space,
go into the Klingon space and rescue the Kobyash Maru
staring your own ship, or abandon them. So the lose
(15:29):
louse situation.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Right, an unwinnable scenario. And let's get that instrumental max
with the facts on that one.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Oh we must. And let's also just say I think
we answered my question here. It would seem that that
is a reference to the way the Japanese named their
war vessels.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yes, Maru means circle essentially, okay uh, And this is
so we have we've solved that when folks, we know
that Togo is figure, it's important to remember it, right.
(16:27):
He's aware of this ticking clock as well. He needs
to figure out where this Baltic fleet is at and
when they will arrive in the THEATA, which we cannot
pronounce any other way than THEATA. And so uh, he
sends he's got all these intel operations, all this spooky
stuff going on as far as he can reach. And
(16:50):
he also dispatches two cruisers as you mentioned, uh, and
they get all the way out to I want to say,
the Indian Ocean, and there's another one that gets to
the Philippines. And then he sends even more cruisers patrolling
areas around Hong Kong, Indonesia, and Singapore from February to
(17:11):
April of five. And this is all to sort of
build you know, the way we could say it. And
Alex Tijuana Williams would agree with me. Here, if you've
ever been camping and you want to set up some
kind of security perimeter, you guys, remember the thing where
you take like cans and string and sort of tie
(17:34):
them around trees that encircle your campsite. Have you ever
heard of that?
Speaker 3 (17:38):
No?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Is this a way of defending yourself against like bears
or wildlife.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
It lets you know when something is coming because the
cans will make a noise.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Of course, of course, of course, of course makes a
jingle jangle. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
So he's sort of doing a maritime version of that
on a much more expensive and dangerous scale. And one
of the patrol ships that were converted for the job,
A lot of these were merchant ships in peacetime. One
of the patrol ships south of the Korean Strait cites
the enemy on May twenty seventh, early in the morning
(18:12):
the wee hours. But they still have no information about
what the Baltic fleet is planning to do, where they're
going to go. And Togo is incredibly confused about this
because bad information is still better than no information.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
And the Admiralty in Tokyo, the control ultimate controlling force
of the navy. They get a telegram that is supposedly
from Togo. But here's the thing, Admiral Togo never sent it.
And the telegram, yeah, a little bit of conspiracy's happening here.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Bad.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Yeah. Yeah, Well, well, as as you and I know,
the telegram says to leadership, the fleet is not going
to move unless the enemy is cited within a specific time,
and Tokyo said, okay, this means that our guy, our boy,
Togo is going to move to the north, and he's
(19:16):
going to wait for the enemy to come through the
northern strait and then smack him. And they reply back
and they say, no, don't move north, just stay at Masampo,
which is your base for the battle. We all think
it's going to take place in Tsushima. I don't know.
It seems like a lot of later historians and analysts
(19:37):
are pretty sure that that was a misstep.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
But who sent the telegram? That's the thing is.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
It was it someone working for him and everybody was
just nervous and in the fog of war and trying
to move quickly. Was it an act a very clever
act of espionage. Ah, The latter is more interesting, but
the former is more plausible. Maybe it's true true.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Togo, however, remained relatively calm in the face of this
unfortunate move. When he got news that the enemy had
been sighted, he and his fleet sailed out from Masampo
toward O Kinoshima, which was east of Sushima. This was
(20:25):
meant to be the likely sight of a naval battle. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, and Togo decided it's time to it's time to
rally the troops, and he said, the fate of the
empire depends on the issue of this battle. Let every
man do his utmost. The Russians are coming, essentially, and
the Russian fleet is approaching Sushima. And as they're approaching,
(20:55):
Togo changes course and he looks like he's going to
he looks like he's trying to pass the Russians by.
Then all of a sudden, he makes a sharp turn
and his number one and number two striking forces follow
his main ship. This is now known as the Togo Turn,
(21:16):
and it is famous in military history.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah, and it's not really a term that is meant
to be taken positively, if I'm not mistaken. This was
considered a bit of a brash, borderline dumb maneuver, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
At first it was Yeah, now it's one of those
things that's considered like a legendary chess move. It looked
so dumb at first, and then people realized what Togo
was actually planning. It allowed him to have his full
the position of his striking forces at full broadside firing position,
(21:54):
and it put his fleet in front of the Baltic fleet.
This is something that the Japanese Navy would later study
in depth. Again, we'll skip over the firing of this
but ridiculous historians. We have to realize that this is
such a power in maritime history that historians are still
(22:17):
studying the minute that someone fired on someone else.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, and speaking of historians, there is an incredibly in
depth I guess you could call it like an academic
paper from Naval Historical Society of Australia, specifically about the
Battle of Tushima of nineteen oh five by Kubata k
which you can find in Navyhistory dot AU. And speaking
(22:44):
of down to the minute, this article uses like military
time down to the minute to talk about and analyze
some of these very tricksy moves by General Admiral Rather Togo.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yes, so do check that out. Is available for free
audi line. We are going to just tell you, as
Noel said, that it is very thorough. It is an
exhaustive study. It's one of the best of its kind
about this pivotal moment in maritime war. And the result
of the Battle of Tsushima was by all measures decisive,
(23:21):
that's right.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, there was no question as to who the victor
was here, thirty eight Russian ships were involved in the battle,
and only a single transport and two battleship destroyers rather
reached their final positions in where they were headed Vadivostok,
of course, which was that seasonal port. So I'm going
to keep referring to it as one of the converted
(23:44):
cruisers that was steam powered managed to kind of limp
its way back to Kronstadt, and the remaining thirty four
ships were absolutely obliterated, either sunken or captured by Japanese forces.
Are they were interned in other ports that weren't neutral
to the conflict.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, yeah, and this is due to Togo's brilliance as
a tactician. That one ship that escapes, that converted cruiser
just you know, Crowdstut is a port in like adjacent
to Saint Petersburg, So they limped all the way back home,
(24:27):
and yeah, you can arrest ships they in turned the
ships they didn't destroy. On the other side, Togo only
lost three torpedo boats while literally annihilating two entire fleets
of Russian navy. That's why it's regarded as the greatest
naval victory in modern history.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
That's right. Doctor Z points out that this incredibly decisive
victory by Japan and the Battle of Tushima more or
less ushered in a brand new style, an era really
of geopolitical maneuvering, and set the stage for a lot
of future conflicts and mediation.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yes, yeah, exactly. The Battle of Tsushima does not automatically
end the war, but it inspires Japan to push for
peace negotiations. Right, we're in a good position. We just
did some bonkers, crazy successful stuff. So while we're at
an advantageous position, let's negotiate. Let's get that surrender. And
(25:34):
you know, we have to remember that war is hell,
and war is also expensive. So the country of Japan
is exhausted militarily, financially. It swung above its weight class arguably,
and that high risk led to a high reward. They
created in the peace negotiations a permanence to their control
(26:02):
of Manchuria. And they said, look, Saint Petersburg, let's just
let's hash this.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Up's hug it out.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Let's say good Jigi, easy, good gaming, guys. So on
June first, nineteen oh five, the Japanese representative to the
United States came to President Teddy Roosevelt and said, hey,
can you come in, will you smooth over this? And
you know, will you talk to the Russians for us?
(26:35):
Because they're they're kind of mad at us.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
They're a little cranky, those Cossacks. They're fiery tempers, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
And Russia was originally not going to play ball. They
were not going to go to a negotiation table. But
thanks to Teddy's intervention, thanks with Roosevelt's support, the Japanese
did decide they're going to occupy the large island that
we mentioned earlier, Sakalon, which is the nearest Russian territory,
(27:06):
and the fighting still continues until August when the last
Russian garrison there surrenders. At this point, Japan's image has improved.
(27:26):
This is crazy branding, right, The United States in particulars like,
look at these guys, you know, look how crazy awesome
they are. And because the eyes of the world are
on them, the great Western powers are finally in Japan's
mind seeing them as a possible great power. They got
to worry about the optics.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
That's right. They showed some benevolence, didn't there. They were
kind more or less considering conditions to their captives, right.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yeah, yeah, they wanted the rest of the world to say, look,
this is how we treat POW's. We're not necessarily beheading people.
The wars over, We're not having a big to do
with parades and victory marches and all this stuff. We're
playing nice.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
And the in Togo even go to see his convalescing
rival in the hospital.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yes, yeah, he sure did, And we have a great
quote from their conversation.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Indeed, defeat is an accident to the lot of all
fighting men, and there is no occasion to be cast
down by it if we have done our duty. I
can only express my admiration for the courage with which
your sailors fought during the recent battle, and my personal
admiration of yourself, who carried out your heavy task until
(28:47):
you were seriously wounded.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yeah, which is a very classy thing to say.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
It's magnanimous. Yeah, that's the right word. It's at the
very least shows empathy, and it is a very human
way of speaking to one's enemy.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
And he's speaking to the wounded Russian Vice Admiral Zenovi
rules Hyssvinsky and well done.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Then I couldn't have even attempted that.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Thank you, I did mispronounce it, So this okay, he
mispronounced it with a plump thank you. So this is
this is yet more propaganda, even though Togo honestly, from
what we know about Togo, he probably did mean it sincerely.
He probably was saying this from a place of great
(29:32):
regard and respect, and he meant it to be private.
It sounds like he really meant it to be private.
You know, shake of the hand, I acknowledge you as
an equal, and you know, things could have turned out
completely differently. Who will know. But it is valuable PR
(29:54):
because this happens six days after the Immortal Battle, and
it comes it becomes a talking point, a lightning rod.
You see all these visual records and text about this,
and then right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Isn't this essentially like an example of kind of like
the way more modern wars are fought on multiple fronts.
There's like sort of the coverage angle, the idea of
embedded journalists, and sort of the like PR side of
a war. This seems to be sort of like a
approaching that more modern, you know, style of warfare, right
h yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
And then they they also release a hospital They also
release one of the hospital ships that have been captured,
and they say, hey, go check on your folks, collect
any wounded Russian soldiers they're still in the area. And
to your point, this is another aspect of the conflict, right,
(30:55):
there is another knock on consequence because these gestures, sincere
or not all were leading to the creation of the
image the Japanese Empire wanted at the time, a victorious
nation that is also compassionate. You know what I mean.
(31:16):
In short, we are the good guys. Look at us.
We're not sore winners. And once this once this takeover
the island is complete, and once these conversations between the
admirals occur and the hospital ship is released, the road
to a peace treaty is much easier. President Roosevelt is
(31:38):
hosting so throws.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
His hat in the ring as mediator, right, but doesn't
he doesn't don't They politely decline?
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Ah, he says. He says, guys, come hang out with
me in New Hampshire. You'll you'll love it. It's the
Granite State.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
It's beautiful this time of year.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Believes are beautiful. So eventually Russian negotiators say, okay, it's
it's going to be less painful to go through diplomatic
means than it will be to go through another armed struggle,
especially because we just got our butts handed to us,
and we are going to accept the majority of Japanese
(32:18):
conditions or demands for peace. The Czar Nikki two says,
we are not going to reject a claim for indemnity.
We're going to offer We'll say that we recognize Japan's
control of the southern half of Sakkolan Island, and the
(32:42):
Japanese forces said, okay, yeah, deal. So they signed the
Treaty of Portsmouth on September fifth, nineteen oh five, ending
a war that lasted nineteen months.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
But if I'm not mistaken, Ben, this didn't go over
particularly well with the Japanese public, despite the Japanese being,
you know, the victors and receiving the you know, most
of the benefits of the treaty terms. I guess the
idea was that they should have been paid reparations of
(33:15):
some kind, that Russia would yield to every single Japanese
demand without negotiation, and there was some kind of public
backlash and the way it was reported and the way
the public responded.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Yeah, yeah, you absolutely nailed it. The people themselves felt betrayed.
And it's a phrase you can see in newspapers of
the time because on their end, you know, the civilians
there are going through so much economic strain. They've lost
a lot of loved ones in this war that lasted
(33:48):
nineteen months and to the on the day the treaty
was concluded, we see a public outcry. I wasn't aware
of this at first. Thirty thousand demonstrators gathered in Tokyo,
and they eventually rioted and for a while martial law
(34:08):
had to be.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
I believe that. I'm sure you're familiar with a park
and it was known as the Habia Riots.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yes, Yes, known as the Habia Riots. And that comes
to us from the Asia Pacific Journal, is where we're
pulling some of this information from. And that, fellow ridiculous historians,
is the story of how the Nation of Japan, the
Empire of Japan, once upon a time, absolutely rinsed the
(34:37):
largest land empire in the world.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Dowst juiced wa frombade saute juliennes. Perhaps's lunch im hungry,
you know, I mean, despite this public backlash in Japan,
in fact, Prime Minister at the time, Katsura Taro's cabinet
would ultimately crumble as a result of this. It's my
(35:02):
understanding it was ultimately seen through the lens of history
as a resounding success.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
And with that we would love to preemptively thank our
super producer mister Max Williams for a resounding success editing
this episode. We'd also like to thank all of you
fellow ridiculous historians for joining us on this journey. Again,
there's a lot more information out there for fellow war
(35:34):
Nerds fans of war history please check out not just
the nuts and bolts and mechanics and back and forths
of this conflict, but the context that led to it,
right and how the consequences of these battles in this
war paved the way for other conflicts in the future.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Surey, it really did. The ruster Japanese War large kind
of ushered in a new era of modern warfare, and
the way it was covered in the way like kind
of the world saw conflicts like this moving forward. Pretty
interesting stuff. So there's definitely a lot more context to
be had, but huge thanks to our reach associet on
(36:16):
this episode, these episodes, Doctor Z thanks to Alex Williams Alex,
what Is It Tijuana Williams, who composed our theme.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
And big thanks to the one and only Aj Bahamas Jacobs,
who runs a fantastic show called The Puzzler wrote an
excellent book about living constitutionally. A huge fan please check
it out. It's such a big another one about living biblically.
M M yeah, yeah, he will find Aj Bahamas Jacobs
(36:48):
will find the most fascinating way to explore history. We're
super whim. We'd love having him on the show. He's
had us on his show a couple of times, and
speaking to people who have been on the show, we
do have some terrible news, and we don't want to
end on terrible news, but it's really important. Jonathan Strickland
(37:10):
aka the Quist, will be returning to the show very soon.
We fought against it, but it is in the peace negotiation,
so it's one of the terms we agree to.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I think it's actually going to happen in a pretty
interesting scenario, as all the old Jay strick would say,
where the three of us are going to be quite
far abroad together. We'll talk more about that when the
time comes, but.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
It's quite close together now.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
We're making it still together and far Aflung from from
the rest of the world that we know, little teez.
We'll say you more about that soon. In the meantime,
we'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
(37:59):
to your favor Rich shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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