May 6, 2021 • 31 mins
In the second part of this episode, Ben and special guest Matt Frederick continue exploring the bizarre heyday of the poulaine. Tune in to learn more about the fickle, sometimes ridiculous, cycles of fashionable footware throughout history.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
(00:27):
back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always
so much for tuning in. Yeah, I'm over here in
in my wife's shoe collection. I'm trying to find the
pointy of shoes in there, and you know what, nothing
is over a couple of centimeters. I'm really I'm sadden,
I'm saddened. Well, I'll be a pumped up reebok. Matt Frederick,
(00:51):
you've returned for part two of our story on crack
ow the weird pointy shoes of medieval Europe. That yep,
I'm here. I am Nope, I'm here. That's okay. Now, Now,
for everyone who hasn't somehow listened to part one, please
do check it out. It's a lot of fun. We
(01:12):
skirted with a little bit of danger there at the end, Matt,
but we got away clean, as we have often in
the past. Knockout wood and uh right now. Wanted to
check in with you before we moved to part two.
How you feeling about the weird history of these weird shootes? Oh? Man,
I am feeling, you know what, really optimistic that there's
(01:35):
even more ridiculous stuff that we're about to talk about today,
I've I've consumed an entire forty eight fluid ounces of
Khalifa Colderbrew, and I am feeling ready to rock. Then,
without further ado, thanks to our super producers Casey Pegrim
(01:57):
guest producers Andrew Howard and Max Williams, away we go
Part two of Weirdly Weirdly Pointy Shoes. These shoes, these poolines,
they're not seeing as a fat They're seen as a symbol,
a way of communicating that one is doing well in
the world. So it's funny because they may have also
(02:21):
been a form of like a predecessor of what's called
retail therapy today. According to some historians, medieval fashion at
the time was largely known for its clean lines and
this kind of chased minimalism. So maybe, and again this
is speculation. Maybe a good explanation for this flamboyance is
(02:46):
that the shoes emerged onto the scene very shortly after
the Black Death killed like thirty maybe sixty of the
European population. So you've survived, made it out. Yeah, Now
you can wear these things around and be a bit
frivolous because life is short. No, but that totally makes
(03:08):
sense psychologically, why something that's a little perhaps stranger to
the everyday person would be just more accepted. And it
really makes me think about the fashion trends that are
going to be coming out in the next couple of
years across the world. Right now, right, I hope masks
stay around. Mask are awesome. I think they will. I
(03:29):
was actually perusing l ed types of masks, and I
was even looking at gauntlets. There are some incredible Etsy
cyberpunk gauntlets that you can just buy and and you
know you could. It's every day you stuff. I always think, oh,
maybe that's a dragon Con thing. But dragon Con is
not going to be a thing anymore, or Comic Con
(03:49):
or any of these things. They just don't exist anymore.
But I can wear a gauntlet at home. Yeah, you
gotta be the dragon Con you wish to see in
the world. I think that's Gandhi or was a guy
dressed as Gandhi at dragon pot He told me that
got it? That makes a lot of sense. I think
I met him too. I think he did. He's a
friend of this show. So we know that there is
(04:12):
a cultural context from which this popularity may have arisen,
but it kept as controversy as it continued. You know,
it's it's something that's often it's considered like the first
the domain of the elite. But then the church begins
to attack it. Remember we said they called him devil's fingers.
They said that these pointy shoes, the Plaine was encouraging
(04:38):
what they called um. They meant a different thing by this,
but what they called sodomy. Sodomy was at the time
just a catch all term for any kind of sex
or sexual act considered nonstandard. So basically, if you're not
(05:02):
married right and having sexual relationships for the sole purpose
of procreation very specific and orthodox way, in a very
specific way, then you're breaking the rules and anything else
is deviant and an aberration. And so members of the
public start associate extravagant fashions in general, and pointy shoes
(05:26):
in particular, with alternative or deviant sexuality. Just picture a
religious authority saying and there are there were also there
also very long, usurious locks like therese of women then
shuts two tights through the tight unique unseemly it's the
(05:50):
end of days. So we talked about how the Black
Death rolled through killed lots and lots of people, and
it was said by clergy that this that one of
the reasons that the Black Death came through and all
of these people are being punished, it was because of
the sexual deviancies, right, and these poo lanes were a
symbol of that. And you can also see why maybe
(06:11):
there was a push or an underground push for the
pooh lanes because it was almost this It was almost
symbolic of freedom or or um, the thing that everybody
pushes for throughout history at some point or another in
these waves of just trying to show that you don't
have to conform this like minor nonconformity thing, but doing
(06:35):
it in small ways, I don't know, very symbolic. Yeah,
you're absolutely right, because people want to be free to
arrive at their own definitions of themselves, which I think
is an inherently human and noble thing. But then also
control over how people are allowed to present themselves is
a big deal to authorities throughout history, you know, and
(06:57):
everything from haircuts to clothing to food too. More So,
the Church doesn't like this, and they have they have
these different reasons, so they say, yes, it's indicative of
sexually proclivities, which a seemly and ungodly. But if you
think about it, there's a good argument that the poolane
could be regarded as foul. It's a long, tippy shoe
(07:20):
and they are mostly worn by well to do young
men and then later as young men in general, who
reportedly would stand on street corners and like wiggle them
at people, and people started to say, well, they're starting
to be the stereotype where folks would say, if somebody
wears poulines with bells sewn to the end of them,
what they're telling you is that they're available for the
(07:42):
sick hute flicks man. I wish that guy that we
won't name us here because I want to ask him
whether or not that's where the term bell end came from. Okay, Okay,
we'll ask him later last after this show, we'll text
the yes. So, like you said, this is something that
(08:03):
later historians, especially in the queer community, had looked into,
right at, this sort of idea of using fashion as
almost another language, a non verbal language to convey ones, positions, intentions, desires,
and aims. That's a brilliant thing that continues today in
(08:24):
all sorts of parts of the world. But here's the argument.
Here's the argument I thought was kind of the most disingenuous.
The church also said that really long poulanes were bad
because they stopped people from being able to kneel, so
then they stop people from praying, and priests started calling
(08:46):
them Satan's clause because of this. The reason I think
that's silly is it makes the assumption that polanes are
an irremovable shoe that doesn't happen. The closest thing people
have to an irremovable you is the foot or the
skin of the foot. Yeah. I mean some of these,
some of these boots with like the elaborate stuff you
(09:08):
gotta do to tighten them and get them on, those
are almost, you know, irremovable unless you really want to
put some thought and time into it. Yeah, you're right,
that's the time commitment, right. But you see what I'm saying, Like,
I feel like they just didn't like stuff that was popular,
which is weird because the you know, and and I
(09:29):
say this with full respect, but if you look at
the history of the importance that European religious institutions put
on who can or cannot wear certain types of uniform
or fashion, whether they are layer, clergy, etcetera, that it
tracts to me that they would be very sensitive to
changes in fashion because in a way they kind of
(09:52):
had this conception that everyone should have a rough uniform,
the k should dress differently from the priests, the pope
or the peasant. Well. Yeah, and speaking of the pope,
do you remember when Pope Urban I believe the fifth,
was like, guess what, can't wear these anymore? Too bad?
I know you love them, don't care. I can't. That's it.
(10:12):
I'm done. I'm going back inside to put on my
poo lanes because I'm the pope. Pope, I call it
pope lanes. This is my thing. Now, it's my thing.
Now there's a pope choose. It's interesting because he did
issue that edict and nobody really listened to it. They
were like, you'll take these poolanes from my cold dead toes.
(10:33):
So eventually, as this the vicious sexual connotation of the
poulane continues and it becomes more a known and accepted thing,
the English Crown feels like they have to step in
because essentially they were saying, it's like, you know, the
longer need to on a poolane, the more masculine the man,
and uh people didn't like that. Some people didn't like that.
(10:56):
They were like, don't judge me by my foot game,
and so yeah, well you know what they say about
a guy with a really long poolane, he doesn't have
a job. Well, or these do have a job. Wow.
Uh but yeah, the was it the British Crown or
(11:17):
the Parliament? It was it was a British authority stepped
forward and said, guess what, we are going to ban
these now. So the church banned them, and now the
secular authority comes through and says, uh, sorry, yes they
banned them. Parliament says wearing these types of shoes is
now equivalent to public indecency, but only if you're not rich.
(11:40):
They say, no person under the estate of Lord can
wear any gown, jacket or coat that does not cover
the genitals and buttocks. Also, you can't wear any shoes
or boots with pikes those points longer than two inches,
And no tailor can make a short garment or stuffed
doublet and no shoe maker can make you know, long
(12:01):
pointy shoes anymore. It's a law from fourteen sixty three.
They had other stuff to do that day, but they
chose to do that. Well, I mean, I get it
like making crunchless doubloons is like, uhloons? Is that that's
not the right word. What's the doublet? Not a doublet?
What's the there's pantaloons, breaches? How about grieves? Note those
(12:25):
are fortions? Uh? How about ty ones? Uh? Yeah? But
like you were saying, I'm gonna say, yeah, I get it.
I'm sorry, I just can't get over an edict saying
(12:46):
no tailor, she'll make anything. What it was what was
your quote? Not cover the genitals and buttocks? Yes, yeah
you have, but it's okay if you're the lord or
over the king can do what he wishes with his Australia,
but everybody else has to cover it up. And this
(13:08):
is the sumptuary law we're talking about earlier. These set out,
you know, exactly what you were describing earlier, Matt a
very specific kind of plane length based on one social class,
and it was argued that he was okay for barons
and nights to have longer points because they were less
susceptible to the sinful things that wearing these shoes would
(13:32):
tempt you to do. The only other city that took
a stand against this was Paris. They banned them in
thirteen sixty eight, but it came and went. You know,
that's how fashion is. It's cyclical. By fourteen seventy five,
the poulane had largely vanished. European footwear under King Henry
the Eighth got really into a wide box toed shoes. Yeah,
(13:55):
it's a real reaction to the plane there. Yeah. And
then later England past laws restricting the width of the shoes.
Of course, you can imagine the craziness they could could
happen there with the width of shoes. Isn't there a
thing where people were going around like trying to stop
people in the streets and say, oh, hold on this,
(14:18):
let me take again. That's dying shoes. The width appear
to be too much. They feed a wide natural. Look,
we got shoveled feet. We shall see the old to
(14:38):
me run this is he's got a very short like
walking spans, a short, short man with wide feet, so
he's kind of like a speed penguin. Actually, change it,
it's a penguin. It's a penguin. They didn't know because
they haven't seen penguins yet, speak terrible accent. I wonder like,
(15:04):
it's so funny to be the concept of modifying shoe
fashion to the point where it gets outlawed. But the
the utility of the fashion change is so anti escape,
like it makes it so much more difficult to escape
any any situation where an authority is attempting to stop
(15:25):
you weird. So we hope you enjoyed this story and
knowing that there is there is a very long precedent
or very long standing precedent to those folks at the
local quick trip Buford Highway, which all the way also
(15:47):
shout out to Buford Hiwa. It's got like the best
food in town. It is known if you ever get
a chance to travel or check it out. Matt. This
became a two parter along the way because we had
I think we had so much fun exploring this story.
We run into some some pretty heavy social issues that
continue to dog humanity in the modern day. So one
(16:09):
of first off, thank you so much for hanging out
with these two episodes, and also thanks of course to
our our good pal Noel Brown who's on adventures. But
we'll be returning, Matt. I want to give you the
last word before we go to the credits. Oh, the
last word, really, there could be any word you want.
(16:29):
Oh my gosh. Oh wait wait if it's a curse word,
we're gonna bleep it though. Oh man, does it have
But is it one word? Can it be a phrase?
I don't know the rules. It can be a commencement speech, bro,
it's it's really yeah. You're the one who did us
a favor, so it's all on you. Well, to everyone
out there who's just graduated, I just want to say,
listen to Camp Hell and Awake. Oh what, sorry, but seriously,
(16:56):
congratulations grads and uh and do listen to Camp Hill
and Awake. Hope. I hope you do that. But hey,
the only thing I think, honestly we missed out on
this episode was being able to consult with our friend
because Jonathan Strickland. Of course it's time. Hell man, it
(17:22):
wasn't a bit. No, you look different, thanks, No, uh,
it's not all. It's Matt methol Mule throw Drick, my
old old nemesis, Metholo Mule. You're in for a treat
for Welcome to the most cringe worthy segment in all
(17:45):
of podcasting. You face the quizter, Jonathan, Is it okay
that I'm excited about this? Gentlemen? I have something I
have to say first before we get into this. I
climbed out of my poutine this morning and into my
seventeen foot long pooline down to can of Satan Claw,
(18:10):
donned my lascivious, ungodly tight shirt, place my propeller beanie
upon my pace, and I made my way to the
Ridiculous History studios, only to discover they are empty. You
shall suffer for this. Oh, such great things to show you, Quister.
(18:41):
How what is the crotch area of your breeches? How
are they doing? Oh? My card pieces? Awesome? Awesome? Yeah, boy,
listening to you just sort of with your way through
medieval terminology was truly the highlight of my week. So
glad I came in on this one. I could feel
(19:02):
a disturbance in the force when we were when we
decided to call beanies Deely bops. I can feel somewhere
out there. So Jonathan Strickland ak the quister. Long time
listeners know what goes on with our continuing cold war
here on Ridiculous History. But for anyone who might be
(19:25):
unfamiliar with this segment, what exactly is about to go down? Well,
I am about to present to the two of you
three scenarios. Two of them are real, one of them
I made up. Seas, it is up to the two
of you to determine which one is the fake. You
have three minutes to do so, and you may ask
(19:45):
me questions once I finish all three scenarios, but you
have to you have to preface it with a phrase
of my choosing. You will for reasons that will soon
become clear. Understand why I've chosen this phrase phrase for
this one is soon, may the Wellerman come? So you
(20:07):
have those That is a hint to the nature of
the three questions. And of course, um as always, we
will make certain to mark who won and who lost
the end. But that is that is the gist of it.
Matholomew Froderic. Are you prepared? I am prepared. Let me
just make sure I get this right. Soon. May the
(20:29):
Wellerman come? Soon? May the Wellerman come? Okay, So it's
a statement, Okay, yes, yes, it's it's to bring us
sugar and tea and RUMs. But you are so slow
on the uptake, Frederic, I really am where's the old person?
Where the old go? All right? Well, I will make do.
(20:52):
I suppose here we are scenario number one under the
intersection of Clay and Sandsome Streets in San Francisco is
something odd. The intersection is five blocks from the piers
at the bay, and yet under that intersection is the Neantic,
(21:14):
a ship from the mid nineteenth century. It is just
one of more than forty ships buried in San Francisco,
but it's the only one that served as the inspiration
for the name of the company that made Pokemon Go.
Scenario two, a construction crew in Old Town, Alexandria and
(21:35):
Virginia found something odd. While preparing a construction site on
South Union Street. They found a buried eighteenth century warship,
possibly one used in the American Revolutionary War. The remains
were in reasonably good shape, largely, it is believed because
since it was buried, oxygen could not reach it. Scenario three.
(21:58):
In Topeka, can just south of the Kansas River, you'll
find the Topeka Zoo. The zoo was founded in nineteen
thirty three, but underwent an expansion in nineteen sixty six.
During the construction process, cruise discovered something truly odd, the
remains of an old ship, believed to be a small
(22:19):
whaling vessel. There were no local records of such a
ship and archaeologists are puzzled as to how it got there.
Begin the time and the timing begins. Now we have
three minutes. Matt Okay, Okay, m clay Streets in San Francisco.
(22:44):
Neantic is the name of the ship? Okay? Does is me? Thinking? Allows? Yeah,
we're not asking it. If we want to ask a question,
we say that thing and then we ask yes, yes,
that's right, Matt. So like so soon may the Williman come? Yes?
Mr Bolin. So the third one was to Peka, Kansas.
(23:05):
That's correct. They've discovered a ship. No one knows how
it got there, just south of the Kansas River. What
was the age of it? Again, they had not determined it.
According to the source I saw, they suspected it was
from the nineteenth century. Okay, sweet, soon may the Williman come? Yes?
Not Noel. So you've got sources for these and one
(23:28):
of them is completely makes up seas and you've just
told us you have a source. Are you allowed to
lie even further? Quister? Absolutely crap, I've been lying this time.
That might they might be three made up praise stories there,
and I would really get you in the past. In
(23:52):
his defense, the quister has said it will not split
hairs and have I do not alter tiny details just
to make something lie. So in other words, if the
ship's name wasn't Niantic, would that invalidate the first one? Well,
I wouldn't go so far as that. So either there
is or there is not a ship named Niantic that
was buried under San Francisco. Okay, okay, so we've got
(24:16):
so me the Williman. Yes, what was scenario too? Again?
And two? Was that an old town Alexandria during the
construction process for a hotel at the waterfront, they discovered
an American Revolutionary era warship buried under ground. Okay, um,
(24:37):
I'm gonna say, Matt, I'm going to say that I
feel like number one is true. I feel like I've
heard that story before, maybe without knowing the Pokemon Go connection,
but I feel like I've heard that story before. Here's
the deal. I feel like I've heard it too. But
that's what's making it so suspect to me, because it
feels like I've heard it. We have I know, I know,
(25:01):
I do. We do? You and I have to be okay,
all right, what do you think if we if we
chose two or three if we just let's bet on
ourselves for one between two or three? Which is which
is fake? Oh? Man, So Kansas is by the river,
he has stated, Alexandria, Virginia. That's where it's a hotel waterfront.
(25:25):
I would say three. Okay, I'm gonna I got your back, man,
lock it in three to one. Locked, Oh, Meth Halliel Frederickson,
I'm so glad you're not one of the regular coasts.
You got it right, Yes, o man, first times, listen,
(25:56):
listen you you both owe me all right. It is
hard to walk three miles in a seventeen, yes, but
you meet people to know your status exactly. I was
going to have them carry me in my sedan chair,
as usually the case, but it turns out that sedans
(26:16):
very heavy. It's a big so to be fair, So Jonathan,
thank you for coming on the show. I guess we
um we can't break. We can't break a little bit
of k fave here, which is we are all on
zoom because it's still pandemic days. The three of us
(26:37):
were lucky enough to see each other for a second
in the office. We're working on some secret projects. Coincided.
But I just want to give you a shout out
and thank you for HOPPI on this zoom maybe a
little bit early. We're not going to tell people how
long well he showed up. I think right at the
right time. You and I took a while. It's technically
(27:00):
technically I showed up when I was told to show up.
That's true. That's true. And we we were late, so
I was reading your facial expressions, and there was stuff
like because we're very responsive with each other, we're doing
each other for years, and when when we were when
we were clearly like, we're like, huh, you know, maybe
(27:21):
Jonathan would know this. I I cannot imagine the amount
of like torture that must have been. It required a
lot of self control not to hit the un mute,
which wouldn't have affected the listeners at all, except for
the fact that there would have been long, silent pauses
in the middle of your recording. We would have had
you a d R all about just maybe come in
(27:43):
with line where you say you guys need to think
about what you did and then keep I felt like
I felt like my introduction was was essentially that, where
I just confronted you with a litany of facts. I hope.
I hope you never have to listen to this, Jonathan,
because the parts of you missed. Uh. Look, Ben, I'm
(28:03):
not cut out for this. You and knowl are really
good at it. Jonathan fantastic. I'm really glad that you
guys are are helming this show. It is tough to
know so much about the ridiculousness of history. You're too kind, Matt,
and I hope that you will, of course. I think
we all hope that you will return in the future. Okay,
(28:30):
all right, the consensus of the show in official we
have a quorum that hopes you will return in the future. Uh.
And maybe you and Jonathan will meet once again in
the field of quister battle sooner than you think, Matt.
One thing that we it feels so ridiculous because we
hang out all the time, but when one thing we
(28:50):
like to do we have folks over on the show,
is to let the audience know anything that you're working
on that they should catch up on when they get
a chance. I understand we do another show called stuff.
They don't want you to know. Jonathan, you've been on
that as well. Actually, we need to have you back
on that because we've got some things coming up where
we need your expertise as Jonathan Strickland, not as the quister.
(29:13):
You know, I make no guarantees which one you get,
but I'm happy. I'm happy to jump on. We really do.
We made a whole episode by ourselves about n f
T S and uh we need you so so, Matt.
Where where can people find find some of your projects? Well,
you can find a lot of the shows that I'm
(29:33):
officially an ep on right now, but I'm not voicing
anything besides stuff they don't want you to know. But
I would recommend checking out the second season of Ephemeral,
which is a great podcast hosted by Alex Williams, second
season of Stranger Arrivals, Camp Hell and Awake, which is
a true crime show, Algorithms about to come out. There's
so many shows coming out right now in our realm.
(29:56):
We would just I'd love for you to listen to
any and all of them, but don't elect this one
or stuff they don't want you to know, or tech
stuff or what are what are your other shows? Johnathan
John has got like seven shows. I mean, there's Large
nor John Collider, there's the Restless Ones. I think I
voiced something for strange arrivals. I think you did. Yeah, yeah,
so yeah, I'd like to keep my hand in lots
(30:17):
of things. Thank you, Matt, You are too kind. Obviously,
I am a huge fan of all the work that
we've all been doing since before there was an internet,
it feels like so I think any listeners who enjoy
this show you should definitely explore sort of the deeper
catalog because there's a lot of really compelling stuff out there.
(30:38):
Some of it is silly, some of it is extremely serious,
and some of it seems to try and bridge the
gap between the two. Mm hmm. And as always, we
hope that you enjoy this show. We hope you enjoyed
the other shows that we have here in our strange
panopoly of adventures as stay tuned. As always, there is
(31:01):
more to come on the way. Thanks of course, Alex
Williams could post our track. Thanks to our awesome super
producers Casey Pegrom, Andrew Howard and Max Williams. Jonathan Matt Again,
thanks to you guys. Thinks of course to knowl as well,
and if you have a story about ridiculous fashion that
you'd like us to delve into, please let us know.
(31:23):
Head on over to our Facebook page, Ridiculous Historians. We
can't wait to hear from you. Jonathan. What kind of
shoes are you wearing? Man? Well, that's seventeen foot long poolins.
I actually told you that you do listen at all,
terrible at improv. All right, that's our show. For more
(31:51):
podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
(00:27):
back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always
so much for tuning in. Yeah, I'm over here in
in my wife's shoe collection. I'm trying to find the
pointy of shoes in there, and you know what, nothing
is over a couple of centimeters. I'm really I'm sadden,
I'm saddened. Well, I'll be a pumped up reebok. Matt Frederick,
(00:51):
you've returned for part two of our story on crack
ow the weird pointy shoes of medieval Europe. That yep,
I'm here. I am Nope, I'm here. That's okay. Now, Now,
for everyone who hasn't somehow listened to part one, please
do check it out. It's a lot of fun. We
(01:12):
skirted with a little bit of danger there at the end, Matt,
but we got away clean, as we have often in
the past. Knockout wood and uh right now. Wanted to
check in with you before we moved to part two.
How you feeling about the weird history of these weird shootes? Oh? Man,
I am feeling, you know what, really optimistic that there's
(01:35):
even more ridiculous stuff that we're about to talk about today,
I've I've consumed an entire forty eight fluid ounces of
Khalifa Colderbrew, and I am feeling ready to rock. Then,
without further ado, thanks to our super producers Casey Pegrim
(01:57):
guest producers Andrew Howard and Max Williams, away we go
Part two of Weirdly Weirdly Pointy Shoes. These shoes, these poolines,
they're not seeing as a fat They're seen as a symbol,
a way of communicating that one is doing well in
the world. So it's funny because they may have also
(02:21):
been a form of like a predecessor of what's called
retail therapy today. According to some historians, medieval fashion at
the time was largely known for its clean lines and
this kind of chased minimalism. So maybe, and again this
is speculation. Maybe a good explanation for this flamboyance is
(02:46):
that the shoes emerged onto the scene very shortly after
the Black Death killed like thirty maybe sixty of the
European population. So you've survived, made it out. Yeah, Now
you can wear these things around and be a bit
frivolous because life is short. No, but that totally makes
(03:08):
sense psychologically, why something that's a little perhaps stranger to
the everyday person would be just more accepted. And it
really makes me think about the fashion trends that are
going to be coming out in the next couple of
years across the world. Right now, right, I hope masks
stay around. Mask are awesome. I think they will. I
(03:29):
was actually perusing l ed types of masks, and I
was even looking at gauntlets. There are some incredible Etsy
cyberpunk gauntlets that you can just buy and and you
know you could. It's every day you stuff. I always think, oh,
maybe that's a dragon Con thing. But dragon Con is
not going to be a thing anymore, or Comic Con
(03:49):
or any of these things. They just don't exist anymore.
But I can wear a gauntlet at home. Yeah, you
gotta be the dragon Con you wish to see in
the world. I think that's Gandhi or was a guy
dressed as Gandhi at dragon pot He told me that
got it? That makes a lot of sense. I think
I met him too. I think he did. He's a
friend of this show. So we know that there is
(04:12):
a cultural context from which this popularity may have arisen,
but it kept as controversy as it continued. You know,
it's it's something that's often it's considered like the first
the domain of the elite. But then the church begins
to attack it. Remember we said they called him devil's fingers.
They said that these pointy shoes, the Plaine was encouraging
(04:38):
what they called um. They meant a different thing by this,
but what they called sodomy. Sodomy was at the time
just a catch all term for any kind of sex
or sexual act considered nonstandard. So basically, if you're not
(05:02):
married right and having sexual relationships for the sole purpose
of procreation very specific and orthodox way, in a very
specific way, then you're breaking the rules and anything else
is deviant and an aberration. And so members of the
public start associate extravagant fashions in general, and pointy shoes
(05:26):
in particular, with alternative or deviant sexuality. Just picture a
religious authority saying and there are there were also there
also very long, usurious locks like therese of women then
shuts two tights through the tight unique unseemly it's the
(05:50):
end of days. So we talked about how the Black
Death rolled through killed lots and lots of people, and
it was said by clergy that this that one of
the reasons that the Black Death came through and all
of these people are being punished, it was because of
the sexual deviancies, right, and these poo lanes were a
symbol of that. And you can also see why maybe
(06:11):
there was a push or an underground push for the
pooh lanes because it was almost this It was almost
symbolic of freedom or or um, the thing that everybody
pushes for throughout history at some point or another in
these waves of just trying to show that you don't
have to conform this like minor nonconformity thing, but doing
(06:35):
it in small ways, I don't know, very symbolic. Yeah,
you're absolutely right, because people want to be free to
arrive at their own definitions of themselves, which I think
is an inherently human and noble thing. But then also
control over how people are allowed to present themselves is
a big deal to authorities throughout history, you know, and
(06:57):
everything from haircuts to clothing to food too. More So,
the Church doesn't like this, and they have they have
these different reasons, so they say, yes, it's indicative of
sexually proclivities, which a seemly and ungodly. But if you
think about it, there's a good argument that the poolane
could be regarded as foul. It's a long, tippy shoe
(07:20):
and they are mostly worn by well to do young
men and then later as young men in general, who
reportedly would stand on street corners and like wiggle them
at people, and people started to say, well, they're starting
to be the stereotype where folks would say, if somebody
wears poulines with bells sewn to the end of them,
what they're telling you is that they're available for the
(07:42):
sick hute flicks man. I wish that guy that we
won't name us here because I want to ask him
whether or not that's where the term bell end came from. Okay, Okay,
we'll ask him later last after this show, we'll text
the yes. So, like you said, this is something that
(08:03):
later historians, especially in the queer community, had looked into,
right at, this sort of idea of using fashion as
almost another language, a non verbal language to convey ones, positions, intentions, desires,
and aims. That's a brilliant thing that continues today in
(08:24):
all sorts of parts of the world. But here's the argument.
Here's the argument I thought was kind of the most disingenuous.
The church also said that really long poulanes were bad
because they stopped people from being able to kneel, so
then they stop people from praying, and priests started calling
(08:46):
them Satan's clause because of this. The reason I think
that's silly is it makes the assumption that polanes are
an irremovable shoe that doesn't happen. The closest thing people
have to an irremovable you is the foot or the
skin of the foot. Yeah. I mean some of these,
some of these boots with like the elaborate stuff you
(09:08):
gotta do to tighten them and get them on, those
are almost, you know, irremovable unless you really want to
put some thought and time into it. Yeah, you're right,
that's the time commitment, right. But you see what I'm saying, Like,
I feel like they just didn't like stuff that was popular,
which is weird because the you know, and and I
(09:29):
say this with full respect, but if you look at
the history of the importance that European religious institutions put
on who can or cannot wear certain types of uniform
or fashion, whether they are layer, clergy, etcetera, that it
tracts to me that they would be very sensitive to
changes in fashion because in a way they kind of
(09:52):
had this conception that everyone should have a rough uniform,
the k should dress differently from the priests, the pope
or the peasant. Well. Yeah, and speaking of the pope,
do you remember when Pope Urban I believe the fifth,
was like, guess what, can't wear these anymore? Too bad?
I know you love them, don't care. I can't. That's it.
(10:12):
I'm done. I'm going back inside to put on my
poo lanes because I'm the pope. Pope, I call it
pope lanes. This is my thing. Now, it's my thing.
Now there's a pope choose. It's interesting because he did
issue that edict and nobody really listened to it. They
were like, you'll take these poolanes from my cold dead toes.
(10:33):
So eventually, as this the vicious sexual connotation of the
poulane continues and it becomes more a known and accepted thing,
the English Crown feels like they have to step in
because essentially they were saying, it's like, you know, the
longer need to on a poolane, the more masculine the man,
and uh people didn't like that. Some people didn't like that.
(10:56):
They were like, don't judge me by my foot game,
and so yeah, well you know what they say about
a guy with a really long poolane, he doesn't have
a job. Well, or these do have a job. Wow.
Uh but yeah, the was it the British Crown or
(11:17):
the Parliament? It was it was a British authority stepped
forward and said, guess what, we are going to ban
these now. So the church banned them, and now the
secular authority comes through and says, uh, sorry, yes they
banned them. Parliament says wearing these types of shoes is
now equivalent to public indecency, but only if you're not rich.
(11:40):
They say, no person under the estate of Lord can
wear any gown, jacket or coat that does not cover
the genitals and buttocks. Also, you can't wear any shoes
or boots with pikes those points longer than two inches,
And no tailor can make a short garment or stuffed
doublet and no shoe maker can make you know, long
(12:01):
pointy shoes anymore. It's a law from fourteen sixty three.
They had other stuff to do that day, but they
chose to do that. Well, I mean, I get it
like making crunchless doubloons is like, uhloons? Is that that's
not the right word. What's the doublet? Not a doublet?
What's the there's pantaloons, breaches? How about grieves? Note those
(12:25):
are fortions? Uh? How about ty ones? Uh? Yeah? But
like you were saying, I'm gonna say, yeah, I get it.
I'm sorry, I just can't get over an edict saying
(12:46):
no tailor, she'll make anything. What it was what was
your quote? Not cover the genitals and buttocks? Yes, yeah
you have, but it's okay if you're the lord or
over the king can do what he wishes with his Australia,
but everybody else has to cover it up. And this
(13:08):
is the sumptuary law we're talking about earlier. These set out,
you know, exactly what you were describing earlier, Matt a
very specific kind of plane length based on one social class,
and it was argued that he was okay for barons
and nights to have longer points because they were less
susceptible to the sinful things that wearing these shoes would
(13:32):
tempt you to do. The only other city that took
a stand against this was Paris. They banned them in
thirteen sixty eight, but it came and went. You know,
that's how fashion is. It's cyclical. By fourteen seventy five,
the poulane had largely vanished. European footwear under King Henry
the Eighth got really into a wide box toed shoes. Yeah,
(13:55):
it's a real reaction to the plane there. Yeah. And
then later England past laws restricting the width of the shoes.
Of course, you can imagine the craziness they could could
happen there with the width of shoes. Isn't there a
thing where people were going around like trying to stop
people in the streets and say, oh, hold on this,
(14:18):
let me take again. That's dying shoes. The width appear
to be too much. They feed a wide natural. Look,
we got shoveled feet. We shall see the old to
(14:38):
me run this is he's got a very short like
walking spans, a short, short man with wide feet, so
he's kind of like a speed penguin. Actually, change it,
it's a penguin. It's a penguin. They didn't know because
they haven't seen penguins yet, speak terrible accent. I wonder like,
(15:04):
it's so funny to be the concept of modifying shoe
fashion to the point where it gets outlawed. But the
the utility of the fashion change is so anti escape,
like it makes it so much more difficult to escape
any any situation where an authority is attempting to stop
(15:25):
you weird. So we hope you enjoyed this story and
knowing that there is there is a very long precedent
or very long standing precedent to those folks at the
local quick trip Buford Highway, which all the way also
(15:47):
shout out to Buford Hiwa. It's got like the best
food in town. It is known if you ever get
a chance to travel or check it out. Matt. This
became a two parter along the way because we had
I think we had so much fun exploring this story.
We run into some some pretty heavy social issues that
continue to dog humanity in the modern day. So one
(16:09):
of first off, thank you so much for hanging out
with these two episodes, and also thanks of course to
our our good pal Noel Brown who's on adventures. But
we'll be returning, Matt. I want to give you the
last word before we go to the credits. Oh, the
last word, really, there could be any word you want.
(16:29):
Oh my gosh. Oh wait wait if it's a curse word,
we're gonna bleep it though. Oh man, does it have
But is it one word? Can it be a phrase?
I don't know the rules. It can be a commencement speech, bro,
it's it's really yeah. You're the one who did us
a favor, so it's all on you. Well, to everyone
out there who's just graduated, I just want to say,
listen to Camp Hell and Awake. Oh what, sorry, but seriously,
(16:56):
congratulations grads and uh and do listen to Camp Hill
and Awake. Hope. I hope you do that. But hey,
the only thing I think, honestly we missed out on
this episode was being able to consult with our friend
because Jonathan Strickland. Of course it's time. Hell man, it
(17:22):
wasn't a bit. No, you look different, thanks, No, uh,
it's not all. It's Matt methol Mule throw Drick, my
old old nemesis, Metholo Mule. You're in for a treat
for Welcome to the most cringe worthy segment in all
(17:45):
of podcasting. You face the quizter, Jonathan, Is it okay
that I'm excited about this? Gentlemen? I have something I
have to say first before we get into this. I
climbed out of my poutine this morning and into my
seventeen foot long pooline down to can of Satan Claw,
(18:10):
donned my lascivious, ungodly tight shirt, place my propeller beanie
upon my pace, and I made my way to the
Ridiculous History studios, only to discover they are empty. You
shall suffer for this. Oh, such great things to show you, Quister.
(18:41):
How what is the crotch area of your breeches? How
are they doing? Oh? My card pieces? Awesome? Awesome? Yeah, boy,
listening to you just sort of with your way through
medieval terminology was truly the highlight of my week. So
glad I came in on this one. I could feel
(19:02):
a disturbance in the force when we were when we
decided to call beanies Deely bops. I can feel somewhere
out there. So Jonathan Strickland ak the quister. Long time
listeners know what goes on with our continuing cold war
here on Ridiculous History. But for anyone who might be
(19:25):
unfamiliar with this segment, what exactly is about to go down? Well,
I am about to present to the two of you
three scenarios. Two of them are real, one of them
I made up. Seas, it is up to the two
of you to determine which one is the fake. You
have three minutes to do so, and you may ask
(19:45):
me questions once I finish all three scenarios, but you
have to you have to preface it with a phrase
of my choosing. You will for reasons that will soon
become clear. Understand why I've chosen this phrase phrase for
this one is soon, may the Wellerman come? So you
(20:07):
have those That is a hint to the nature of
the three questions. And of course, um as always, we
will make certain to mark who won and who lost
the end. But that is that is the gist of it.
Matholomew Froderic. Are you prepared? I am prepared. Let me
just make sure I get this right. Soon. May the
(20:29):
Wellerman come? Soon? May the Wellerman come? Okay, So it's
a statement, Okay, yes, yes, it's it's to bring us
sugar and tea and RUMs. But you are so slow
on the uptake, Frederic, I really am where's the old person?
Where the old go? All right? Well, I will make do.
(20:52):
I suppose here we are scenario number one under the
intersection of Clay and Sandsome Streets in San Francisco is
something odd. The intersection is five blocks from the piers
at the bay, and yet under that intersection is the Neantic,
(21:14):
a ship from the mid nineteenth century. It is just
one of more than forty ships buried in San Francisco,
but it's the only one that served as the inspiration
for the name of the company that made Pokemon Go.
Scenario two, a construction crew in Old Town, Alexandria and
(21:35):
Virginia found something odd. While preparing a construction site on
South Union Street. They found a buried eighteenth century warship,
possibly one used in the American Revolutionary War. The remains
were in reasonably good shape, largely, it is believed because
since it was buried, oxygen could not reach it. Scenario three.
(21:58):
In Topeka, can just south of the Kansas River, you'll
find the Topeka Zoo. The zoo was founded in nineteen
thirty three, but underwent an expansion in nineteen sixty six.
During the construction process, cruise discovered something truly odd, the
remains of an old ship, believed to be a small
(22:19):
whaling vessel. There were no local records of such a
ship and archaeologists are puzzled as to how it got there.
Begin the time and the timing begins. Now we have
three minutes. Matt Okay, Okay, m clay Streets in San Francisco.
(22:44):
Neantic is the name of the ship? Okay? Does is me? Thinking? Allows? Yeah,
we're not asking it. If we want to ask a question,
we say that thing and then we ask yes, yes,
that's right, Matt. So like so soon may the Williman come? Yes?
Mr Bolin. So the third one was to Peka, Kansas.
(23:05):
That's correct. They've discovered a ship. No one knows how
it got there, just south of the Kansas River. What
was the age of it? Again, they had not determined it.
According to the source I saw, they suspected it was
from the nineteenth century. Okay, sweet, soon may the Williman come? Yes?
Not Noel. So you've got sources for these and one
(23:28):
of them is completely makes up seas and you've just
told us you have a source. Are you allowed to
lie even further? Quister? Absolutely crap, I've been lying this time.
That might they might be three made up praise stories there,
and I would really get you in the past. In
(23:52):
his defense, the quister has said it will not split
hairs and have I do not alter tiny details just
to make something lie. So in other words, if the
ship's name wasn't Niantic, would that invalidate the first one? Well,
I wouldn't go so far as that. So either there
is or there is not a ship named Niantic that
was buried under San Francisco. Okay, okay, so we've got
(24:16):
so me the Williman. Yes, what was scenario too? Again?
And two? Was that an old town Alexandria during the
construction process for a hotel at the waterfront, they discovered
an American Revolutionary era warship buried under ground. Okay, um,
(24:37):
I'm gonna say, Matt, I'm going to say that I
feel like number one is true. I feel like I've
heard that story before, maybe without knowing the Pokemon Go connection,
but I feel like I've heard that story before. Here's
the deal. I feel like I've heard it too. But
that's what's making it so suspect to me, because it
feels like I've heard it. We have I know, I know,
(25:01):
I do. We do? You and I have to be okay,
all right, what do you think if we if we
chose two or three if we just let's bet on
ourselves for one between two or three? Which is which
is fake? Oh? Man, So Kansas is by the river,
he has stated, Alexandria, Virginia. That's where it's a hotel waterfront.
(25:25):
I would say three. Okay, I'm gonna I got your back, man,
lock it in three to one. Locked, Oh, Meth Halliel Frederickson,
I'm so glad you're not one of the regular coasts.
You got it right, Yes, o man, first times, listen,
(25:56):
listen you you both owe me all right. It is
hard to walk three miles in a seventeen, yes, but
you meet people to know your status exactly. I was
going to have them carry me in my sedan chair,
as usually the case, but it turns out that sedans
(26:16):
very heavy. It's a big so to be fair, So Jonathan,
thank you for coming on the show. I guess we
um we can't break. We can't break a little bit
of k fave here, which is we are all on
zoom because it's still pandemic days. The three of us
(26:37):
were lucky enough to see each other for a second
in the office. We're working on some secret projects. Coincided.
But I just want to give you a shout out
and thank you for HOPPI on this zoom maybe a
little bit early. We're not going to tell people how
long well he showed up. I think right at the
right time. You and I took a while. It's technically
(27:00):
technically I showed up when I was told to show up.
That's true. That's true. And we we were late, so
I was reading your facial expressions, and there was stuff
like because we're very responsive with each other, we're doing
each other for years, and when when we were when
we were clearly like, we're like, huh, you know, maybe
(27:21):
Jonathan would know this. I I cannot imagine the amount
of like torture that must have been. It required a
lot of self control not to hit the un mute,
which wouldn't have affected the listeners at all, except for
the fact that there would have been long, silent pauses
in the middle of your recording. We would have had
you a d R all about just maybe come in
(27:43):
with line where you say you guys need to think
about what you did and then keep I felt like
I felt like my introduction was was essentially that, where
I just confronted you with a litany of facts. I hope.
I hope you never have to listen to this, Jonathan,
because the parts of you missed. Uh. Look, Ben, I'm
(28:03):
not cut out for this. You and knowl are really
good at it. Jonathan fantastic. I'm really glad that you
guys are are helming this show. It is tough to
know so much about the ridiculousness of history. You're too kind, Matt,
and I hope that you will, of course. I think
we all hope that you will return in the future. Okay,
(28:30):
all right, the consensus of the show in official we
have a quorum that hopes you will return in the future. Uh.
And maybe you and Jonathan will meet once again in
the field of quister battle sooner than you think, Matt.
One thing that we it feels so ridiculous because we
hang out all the time, but when one thing we
(28:50):
like to do we have folks over on the show,
is to let the audience know anything that you're working
on that they should catch up on when they get
a chance. I understand we do another show called stuff.
They don't want you to know. Jonathan, you've been on
that as well. Actually, we need to have you back
on that because we've got some things coming up where
we need your expertise as Jonathan Strickland, not as the quister.
(29:13):
You know, I make no guarantees which one you get,
but I'm happy. I'm happy to jump on. We really do.
We made a whole episode by ourselves about n f
T S and uh we need you so so, Matt.
Where where can people find find some of your projects? Well,
you can find a lot of the shows that I'm
(29:33):
officially an ep on right now, but I'm not voicing
anything besides stuff they don't want you to know. But
I would recommend checking out the second season of Ephemeral,
which is a great podcast hosted by Alex Williams, second
season of Stranger Arrivals, Camp Hell and Awake, which is
a true crime show, Algorithms about to come out. There's
so many shows coming out right now in our realm.
(29:56):
We would just I'd love for you to listen to
any and all of them, but don't elect this one
or stuff they don't want you to know, or tech
stuff or what are what are your other shows? Johnathan
John has got like seven shows. I mean, there's Large
nor John Collider, there's the Restless Ones. I think I
voiced something for strange arrivals. I think you did. Yeah, yeah,
so yeah, I'd like to keep my hand in lots
(30:17):
of things. Thank you, Matt, You are too kind. Obviously,
I am a huge fan of all the work that
we've all been doing since before there was an internet,
it feels like so I think any listeners who enjoy
this show you should definitely explore sort of the deeper
catalog because there's a lot of really compelling stuff out there.
(30:38):
Some of it is silly, some of it is extremely serious,
and some of it seems to try and bridge the
gap between the two. Mm hmm. And as always, we
hope that you enjoy this show. We hope you enjoyed
the other shows that we have here in our strange
panopoly of adventures as stay tuned. As always, there is
(31:01):
more to come on the way. Thanks of course, Alex
Williams could post our track. Thanks to our awesome super
producers Casey Pegrom, Andrew Howard and Max Williams. Jonathan Matt Again,
thanks to you guys. Thinks of course to knowl as well,
and if you have a story about ridiculous fashion that
you'd like us to delve into, please let us know.
(31:23):
Head on over to our Facebook page, Ridiculous Historians. We
can't wait to hear from you. Jonathan. What kind of
shoes are you wearing? Man? Well, that's seventeen foot long poolins.
I actually told you that you do listen at all,
terrible at improv. All right, that's our show. For more
(31:51):
podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.