August 24, 2023 • 40 mins
How far would you go in the name of love? In this installment of The Architecture, Ben, Noel and Max dive into more amazing -- and ridiculous -- tales of people who literally constructed buildings as a means of revenge.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much
for tuning in. Let's hear it for the Man, the myth,
the legend, the spite free hopefully super producer, mister Max Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I got a spite at both of y'all. You guys
were singing before we started this, and you didn't invite
me into it. I didn't know what you were singing
because it was probably before my time, but yaw, you
give me spiteful.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
First of all, you don't need to be invited to sing, Max,
That's not how singing works. You're just in yes, please, Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I'm building. I'm want to find we're I want to
find the point that's equidistance between your two places of residence.
I'm want to build a giant, ugly wall just spite
you two.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Well, I don't leave the house, so it won't affect me.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Would you say that we left you with some feathers
in your hand? Does it make it any easier to
leave you where you stand?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Oh? Boy, Ben, Now I got to complete the holes,
and I'm not gonna do it. I'm not going to
be I will not be an enemy at anything. I
only stand here waiting for us to start the show.
Big Counting Crows, by the way, they get a bad rap,
first of all because Adam Durtz and his white boy dreads,
but also, like you know, the shrekification of so many
artists I think was unfortunate, and I think the Counting
(01:42):
Crows fell victim to that.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Such a good writer there, I agree, it's such a
good writer. And as especially we're talking their first two
albums and just you know, they're very much off the
tie and there's some beauty to it.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
The song we're talking about, the Angels of the Silences
off of their second album, I Believe, which is called
something about Satellites. But I played it for my kid
and they loved it. It was just like, you know,
this is emo. It sounds like I'm like, you know,
some of the like like my Chemical Romance or something
like that, and I did. It occurred to me that
they did have a sort of a proto emo kind
of vibe on that record. Doesn't sound like their other stuff.
(02:17):
But check them out, don't don't write them off.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Don't don't. Yeah, there's a reason that people.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
So it's recovering the satellites, that's what we're trying to think.
That's recovering the satellites from like nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
God, that was a long record, a good record, good record.
And with this we want to continue our record of
examining spiteful architecture. Your nol I'm Ben Max, hopefully you're
still Max.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I saw that Max did a deuce deuce on that one.
Nice In our previous episode earlier this week, we talked
we explore two very spiteful structures, one called the Skinny
House and one that's a very strange story about Macy's
the ropes and sunglasses sunglass hot.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
At the very end, Yeah for sure. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Where are we going today?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Though, God, where aren't we going today? Actually gets a
pretty limited place. We're going to a couple of places today.
We are traveling to the San Francisco Bay Area. You know,
to keep in to stay with the music theme, it's
you know, when the sun shines on the bay and
when the lights go out in the city, and that's
the titular bay of journey fame, the Bay area, the
(03:40):
San Francisco Bay, beautiful beautiful place, if not a little
bit over gentrified at this point and swarming with startup
bro types, but still lovely stuff. And if you go
to certain parts of the city, it's yeah, exactly, if
you go to a certain part of the city, there
are things that haven't been, you know, overtaken by this culture.
(04:00):
You can find places that have been grandfathered in or
like family businesses that I think exist is there for
so long, but it's become one of these places that's
just so prohibitively expensive to live or set up a
business that it's almost starting to feel like it's losing
its culture, if I may be so bold.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, and this is a cyclical thing we see with
a lot of cities and a lot of communities when
they become financially successful. You see it often with more
artistic and bohemian areas, little five Points in Atlanta, Georgia,
Montemarte in Paris.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Right, absolutely, yeah, I mean these are these little enclaves
that do usually have some governing body that tries at
the very least to keep you know, corporate interests out.
You know, because these places exist and their stock and
trade is their uniqueness and the fact that they have
this certain kind of you know, authentic vibe and authentic quality.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Right this story, this one is different though. This house
really leans into the fact that it is a spiked house.
It's fifty four feet long, it's twenty feet tall, and
if you look at the front door, there's stained glass
above the door, and in the stained glass it literally
(05:22):
says spite house there on the quarterer of what is
it Christ in Broadway? Is that how you would say
it Christ?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I think that's right. I don't imagine that it's pronounced Christ,
but haven't actually heard anybody speak it. But boy do
I love that. First of all, I love a good
stained glass I may have mentioned that my partner is
a stained glass artist, so I'm a huge fan of
the craft. The lot goes into it. I've learned more
about it than I ever cared to know since we've
been together. But I just adore the fact that they
(05:51):
just went right to the most direct thing possible in
saying spite house and a beautiful piece of stained glass art.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah, and if you look at this, if you look
into this story, you'll see that it really begins in
nineteen oh eight with a man named Charles Frohling, we
know that to be true, but very quickly the origins
of the Spite House faded into myth and legend, and
(06:23):
so you'll hear at times contradictory stories about how this
thing came to be. We'll get the main one out
of the way. The most popular one says that our
pal Charlie built the house as a means of revenge
against the city of Alameda. They used imminent domain to
(06:45):
create this street, Christ Street, and when they did this,
they removed a lot of his property. So imminent domain,
for anybody unfamiliar, is this concept that a municipality or
a government can say, for the great good, we are
taking your private property. We're gonna pay you what we
(07:06):
feel is fair, but you cannot refuse to sell it
to us. And we hear about this mostly in the
US when it comes to things like widening roads, like
making a two lane road a four lane road and
so on.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
That's right, And the neighbor in this case wasn't really
feeling this situation at all. He in fact, was quite
unsympathetic actually to this situation, as was written in the
San Francisco Gate article on the subject by Jordan Gwynn.
(07:38):
Unsympathetic to the point of spite. Actually, you know, so
in another situation of trying to block the light out
of somebody's domicile, he said about building a home adjacent
to the property that would block the sunlight from entering
the northeast side of this Victorian home.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yeah. So basically the city made his original home building
plans impossible, and his neighbor was kind of rude to
him about it. So he said, Okay, new plan. I'm
gonna screw over your house. But people who look into
this actually don't believe this most common story.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
We see a lot of this in these spiite tales,
right where there's like conflicting narratives or just nameless brothers,
you know.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, so we found one historian mentioned in the San
Francisco newspaper you said it just a second ago, who says, first,
Chris Street already existed and the city of Alameda actually
didn't seize any of Charlie's land. Instead, this spite house
may go back to a good old case of old
(08:53):
fashioned sibling rivalry.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
We're doing a callback to our earlier episode Brother against
Brother love it.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Oh yeah, I hate to see it, but also usually
makes for some interesting drama. So in this version of
the tale, once again a couple of brothers, you know,
brothers related to one another.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
It keeps reminding me of that inter dimensional cable episode
from Rick and Morton, for sure.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Two brothers and a van, and then a meteor comes
and they run from giant cat monsters and two brothers
meteor stuff and another and then there's giant cat ladies
and there's an armauna of tomato wielding things. And then
you wouldn't know this, but the brothers they're just normal brothers.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Oh yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Think, like, I think, I'm sure about seventy percent accurate.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
All this to say that, you know, a pair of
brothers feuding or just going on an adventure is a
good starting place for any story, right, yeah, okay, that
would take away, So that's away, I think. So in
this version of detail, a pair of nameless brothers once
again inherited this lot and uh a very similar callback
(10:07):
to the previous story. One of them sold most of
the land while his sibling was out of town, not
necessarily at war, just just out on a little excursion,
you know, codition, Yeah, who knows, And of course this
led to the other brother feeling wronged in some you know,
really that's pretty pretty messed up. It's not nice to
(10:28):
sell your co property out from under, you know, one
of the other co owners.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah. And one thing that's funny to me about this
is when I hear these bro v bro stories, it
always makes me very very thankful that all of my
friends who do have siblings actually seem to get on
with each other pretty well. You know, like Max and
Alex Williams. No savior, savior come to see commissa hands there, Savior,
(10:57):
middling handwave there, Max, you and like to actually get
along quite well, at least when company's over.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Well, look, Max Brazil. You know, mile age may vary
in terms of your interpretation, but I will side with
Ben and saying that observationally speaking, y'all are some of
the most amicable siblings that I've ever encountered, So take
that for what it's worth.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
We're basically the exact same age. I mean, we're eighteen
months apart, and we get along very well. I mean
we've now worked at two jobs together. We have lived
together in college, and then we lived six houses.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Apart from each other for three years.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
And you taught me to play dice.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Yes, same, Yeah, it's always calls me the rule masters.
I think it's because I'm like mega neurotic and very
organized in every aspect of my life.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
I learned how to play dice from the two of
you as well. And yeah, I really can I can
attest that you are the rule master at least in
what was it One for twenty four? I think it
was the game that we like to play. Oh yeah,
One for twenty four is the best. That's a good one.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Yeah, actually, I think that's when we were playing Ben.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Probably, So it's a go to. It's classic. It's good
fun to you know, when you make it interesting. You know,
wager few shekels in there, and it's a lot of fun.
So unless I'm mistaken, though, Max, neither one of you
have either sold a parcel of land out from under
the other. No, not yet.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
And to be completely honest, if one of us was
gonna be the villain brother, it would probably be me.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
It just seems so. It seems like the kind of
move you wouldn't even do to a non related colleague,
you know, if you are, if you are in the
same boat together. You know what it gets me about
these stories and beat me here, Max. What gets me
about these stories is the real gewitness about it. It's
(12:39):
not just selling the land or building on the land.
It's that you're selling most of it and leaving.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
The dregs the dregs.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
But that's like giving someone a partially used Starbucks gift
card for their birthday and saying, I know it says
twenty dollars on there, but I think there's about four
dollars left. I thought of you, bro, Yeah, that's exactly right.
It means purposely hurtful.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
It's a little different, but it is. It does remind
me of the Macy story with the weird little corner
that was barely useful but still useful in this kind
of like weird spiteful flex situation. But this is not that.
This is the reverse of that, because this is someone
who is purposefully leaving that amount to the other, whether
(13:30):
purposefully or just absent mindedly perhaps and just thoughtlessly. Right, yeah,
and why not sell the whole thing? Was he really thinking? Question?
This would be cool? He'll be fine with this, Like
what is this his consolation prize?
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Like? Ugh, so this house? It actually does it reminds
me of house is I said this previously in part one.
It reminds me of some houses you might see in
other countries. Right, it's built into a awkward small amount
of space. I think it's twelve feet wide at its
most broad points broadest point. And we still don't know
(14:06):
a ton of facts about it because of the time
of which it was constructed. But thank goodness, historians have
done some pretty serious digging here and they learned some
strange things. One unfortunate fact they learned is that Charles
(14:30):
Frowling's neighbor, one Annette Westerdall, actually died a few weeks
before the spite House was completely built, and it appears,
unfortunately that she may have taken her own life. One
neighbor said that before she passed away, she was worried
the erection of this two story dwelling would shut out
(14:54):
the sunlight from a part of her house, and that
was quoted in the San Francisco Chronicle back in eight nineteen.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, back back in eighty nineteen o eight, that is
for sure. And this unfortunate death did lead to some
you know, some whispers on the street, whispers in the
front yard. I heard about knights out in the school yard.
Sorry back in the nineties, better than Ezra? Right, the
idea of these other properties were haunted, that both of
(15:24):
these homes were haunted. And actually there was some evidence
that exorcisms took place in the seventies nineteen seventies.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yes, I don't know if we did that last one,
but yeah, yeah, yeah, And at this point the people who.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Have real Jim Blossom, sorry, not better than.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Well, they were very much of the era. Better than Ezra.
What they have King of New Orleans that was also
desperately wanting, desperately want behind Who is Ezra? Why is
it so.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
He's apparently less than He's deficient in some way?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Right we and yes, dear ridiculous historians, we know we
could solve this very quickly if we just typed it
into a search engine. But we're having fun.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
I have a sense that it's a biblical reference. What
do you think?
Speaker 1 (16:20):
I feel like I read about it one time, the
last time I was in a nineties rabbit hole, but
whatever the answer was didn't really stick with me. I'm
sure it's out there though, and there's there's still around, right,
Actually they are.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
I just found an article and said better than Ezra
front man won't divulge the secret behind the band's name.
Oh oh, mystery remains.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
He's like Tom Yorke with that lip syncing in that
one music video. Remember I don't know if I do,
but there's a radio Head video where one of the
actors in the in the film is saying, it's like
a short film in course his mouth yeah, and he
talked box uh and the mainstream doesn't know what he's saying.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Any really quickly, and then we sort of move on.
There is also a really great clip of Tom York
being asked, like in the nineties, what creep is about
and he goes, creep is about up Now it's gone on.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Fantas I love when he trolls people in interviews.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
And Greenwood is standing there catatonic. Give him. The man
never says a word. It was also an ageless vampire,
by the way.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
And there's also the thing is Tom Yorke has a
bit of a Tom Waits esque or a Bob Dylan
esque approach to interviews. Oh gosh, I love it anyway,
So these guys probably would be in despite architecture as
just a thing. In addition to music, you're always.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Quote Waits is what's he building in there? That makes
me think of it's a Spike house. That's what he's building.
That's what he's building. We found the answer, well done, man,
I like that one.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
So the people who live in the alimated spite House
have never themselves encountered paranormal activity, but we do know
that at one point a single person owned both the
spite House and a Victorian house next door, and this
guy threw parties at the spite House and turned the
lower level into a bar. We know the house was
(18:25):
abandoned at one point. It got it became derelict, and
it was almost torn down completely. But the public got
together and they said save the spite House, Saved the
Spite House, or something akin to that.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Earlier in the episode, I think it was in part
or maybe it was the last one. You said something
about how the house was made of spite, and I
just love the idea of spite as like a building material.
I want to know what it's graded for. Can it
be load bearing? You know, like it's just I don't know.
My mind ran wild when you said that.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
The house that Spiite built. Yeah, that does sound sohat poetic.
We could we could do a ridiculous history studios on
that one.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
I got a problem with this.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Nice nice And so you can read again in that
excellent article that you cited, folks, you can read about
the day to day life of the family that lives there.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Now.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
They are living there by choice, not because they were
driven to it by privation or danger. But that is
one example of something that ended well overall, Now you're
living in a little bit of history. There's no bad blood,
it's not haunted. It's also not the last example of
(19:41):
a spiked house. This one's confusing to me. The mont
Lake Pie House.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Yeah, well, first of all, I mean it sounds.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Like fun, like a restaurant. Yeah, I want to go
to the pie House.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Well, have you ever seen that show Pushing Daisies. It
didn't run that long, but it was.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Really criminally unbreable Susian.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
I believe that the creator went on to do Hannibal,
which is also amazing and not like that show at all.
Pushing Daisy was very colorful, and I mean, so it
was Hannibal, but it had some death qualities where people
could be like like brought back to life. But it
revolved around a pie shop called the Pie Hole. That
I believe was shaped like a pie. If I'm not mistaken.
(20:23):
In the show, it had like you know, and when
I think about things like that, I think about Pizza
Hut and how like early in the branding of Pizza
they decided they were going to have a unique design
to all of their buildings. And then when you know,
time rendered that sort of dated, uh, and the company
pivoted and rebranded. You have all these weird pizza hut
(20:45):
former pizza huts just just scatter everywhere the hither and
yon you know, if you don't know what I'm talking about,
it's obviously that weird hat shaped red roof situation. So
that's what I think of when I think of a
pie house. But maybe I'm wrong here.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
No, you're you're making I mean, if you look at it,
it simply looks like a door as someone built a
door frame and they just kept going into the back.
It is only fifty five inches across at its narrowest point,
and it is a pie shaped house that was apparently
(21:21):
built entirely to cut off a larger home from the street.
It reminds me of the geography in a way. It
reminds me of the geography of Croatia and Serbia. You
know what I'm talking about, Like, how have you guys
seen that? Hang on, wait, I want to show you.
This is I see it shaped like a slice of pie,
(21:43):
like a slice of pie, not like a fully piece.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Got see. I was confused there for a second, but
I'm looking at it. Yeah, it's almost like it disappears
off into the horizon, like the walls get narrower as
you continue to walk. It could be used as like
some sort of weird you know, the labyrinth kind of
tactic where if you're like going, you eventually get crushed
to death by the walls or something like that. But
(22:07):
this is a little more lighthearted than that.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah. Yeah, And I want to amend what I was
saying earlier there. That was my folks, guys, I said Serbia,
I meant Bosnia and Herzegovina. Let me let me share.
Let me share this with you. I promise it'll be
worth it. This is an example of what I think
we could call spikee geography. Can you see that.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
A little bit at the bottom of cand you describe it?
It's the dregs. I mean, once again, it's just like
it's it's such a tiny crumb of land as to
be absolutely useless.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Right, it's just to block them from having access to
the water. We talked about this in a different country,
different part of the world, but it's the exact same thing.
And the war over Bird Poop episode one of the
South American countries having this little stretch of land that
blocks an entire other one from having any access to
(23:03):
the water.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
So spide is not just for houses. But I had
to bring up that slight discoursion because that reminds me
of what's happening with Pie House, and you described it perfectly.
Here's another local legend. Again, the sources on all this
stuff aren't super great. So this neighbor goes to the
(23:25):
owner of the land to purchase a plot of land
in nineteen twenty five, but offers a price so low
that the owner is insulted, and they're so insulted that
they build this house that's basically a slice of pie
(23:46):
just to get back at the person. That's one story,
but there's another story as well, right.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
That's right. The other account claims the house was built
when the wife of the owner was given this tiny
lot in a divorce settlement. Again like this sort of
poultry kind of barely useful piece of land. And once
again it's like a kind of fighting over a piece
of land where someone gets the dregs. Well, her ex
(24:14):
supposedly got the rest of the property, and someone who
actually owned the property recently said that the profile of
the house wasn't really that big a deal except when
it came to cooking because of the just the logistics
of the space where all the kitchen hookups were.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Oh yeah, she said she had to when she opened
the oven door, she had to stand to one side
so she didn't get pinned against the wall.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah, and seems unless you think, you know, this type
of shape would maybe render a house like this less valuable.
Not the case. It actually quite recently sold for four
hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Holy smokes, what is this Atlanta?
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeah, very much.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
She walked down the street for that one.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Oh we're there, we're there. But the eight hundred and
sixty square foot home, you could liken it and curb
Seattle does just that. You could liken it to the
layout of like a houseboat, okay, because the houseboat has
to taper a little bit, right, sure, I mean I
guess it doesn't. I've seen you see square ones or
rectangular ones, right, but sometimes you know there is a
(25:23):
point that they will kind of taper.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
A little bit, and they're usually rectangular. They're they're long
and narrow by design, so that makes sense. You get
all the inconvenience of a houseboat with none of the
appeal of living on the water.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
That's right, that's true. I would love to, at the
very least airbnb a houseboat sometime. I think that air cool.
They are so cool.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
We should absolutely, you know what, that's how we know
when we made it. We should absolutely get houseboats.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Yeah, or Airbnb one.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
But I'd be okay, okay, you're right, I'm yet again,
I'm going I'm going all gas.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
No, who needs the breaks? Man, They're they're overrated, except
if when I stop but that we're not done, and
I think, yeah, we've got a good one. To close
this episode out with the pretty innocuous and somewhat boringly
named no Pie House. The Kavanaugh Building. This just sounds
(26:25):
like a place where business is conducted.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yes, Once upon a time in the nineteen thirties, Koreina
Kavanaugh was a rich, beautiful, and determined woman, her family
was extremely wealthy, but old money they were not. I
don't know why I I hostually went like Disney fable.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Well, there's been some fable aspects to a lot of these,
and then I think that was a great way to
start this is Yeah, they weren't old money. So this
is in I believe, Argentina. So there's you know, a
very installed enshrenched aristocracy there, and folks who come into
money later in life for some reason, are looked down upon.
(27:09):
They're considered like the nouveau riche, you know, and that
is a term of abuse, and they are not afforded
the same kind of you know, privileges and respect that
maybe landed gentry, you know, might be in terms of
like legacy family money for whatever reason, that matters. And
old money tends to be suspicious and a little bit
(27:33):
guarded when it comes to folks that come into money
later in life.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Absolutely, yeah, because money does not necessarily buy social status.
And he nailed it with the description of the so
called novou riche. So Koreina Capital, despite being very wealthy,
is ostracized by other people at her income level, and
(27:57):
she has a romantic liaison, a troubling affair with a
young man who is born into a very very established
old money family. He is the son of Mercedes Castianos
de Ankorina and this old money family, you know, to them,
(28:19):
it's like a Romeo and Juliet thing. They hate this relationship.
You're dating new money. Have you lost all respect for
your heritage? And they use their influence to end the relationship.
So Karina Kavanaugh is humiliated, She's hurt. She dedicates herself
to vengeance and being a lady of a noble bearing,
(28:45):
she decides that she is not going to you know,
show up at the estate with a knife, you know,
run them over with horses or something. In nineteen thirties,
maybe it would have been a car instead. She turns
to architecture.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Yeah, the old trustee, right, the Basilica of the Holy
Sacrament is a gorgeous historical church that is now available,
you know, for the public to tour to check out.
But in its original days it was a private mausoleum
(29:23):
of a very wealthy family, the Anchorinas, who lived in
the San Martin Plaza, in a mansion that is now
the site of the Argentine Foreign Ministry.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah, and the deal is that is not close enough
for the old Bunny and Garina family, especially the matriarch
of the family, and she says, you know what, we
need to be closer to the basilica. So I Am
going to buy a vacant lot directly in front of
(30:00):
the basilica, will build our new family mansion there will
be It'll be so convenient for us to attend services
and whatnot. And so Corina Kavanaugh picture her listening in
the shadows, and she says, I'm going to foil their plans.
I will take my revenge. So, just like a brother
(30:21):
in the Civil War or something, she waits for the
matriarch Mercedes to go on vacation, and then she goes
to the person who owns the land. She doubles the
offer of the real estate and snatches up that land.
Boom boom boom. And then while the Ankara family is
still on vacation, Karna contacts these very famous architects, Sanchez
(30:45):
Lagos and de la Torre and says, I need you
to build a huge building. And they say how huge
and she says enormous and they say why and she says,
in hirely to obstruct the view of the church from
as many angles as possible.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
First of all, I would have said, it's none of
your business, take by the money. Second of all, a
lot of mischief going down while people are out of
town in these stories, you know a lot of people
swooping in and buying land out from under people and
using it for nefarious purposes. And so the construction commences,
(31:28):
and she really would be, you know, as John Hammond
would say, spaed no expense, also as the Argentina Traveler
would say, she did this at a great expense to
herself and her own wealth. To see, this is where
the spite becomes interesting, when it starts to like you're
so pissed off. You're doing this thing just to inconvenient
(31:51):
somebody else, and you're doing it like at cost to
your like you're getting rid of your own assets. She
had to sell three of her own properties and Vanada
Tweto in order to finance the project. I believe the
expression is cutting off your nose to spite your neighbor
or your face.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Yeah whatever, Yeah, no close enough.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Stas is that just like Stancias? Is that like a
type of villa a.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Couple things, Yeah, it can be like a ranch. I
think they're using it to mean ranch in this in
this situation, but the direct translation is uh, instances, so
it's definitely not instance.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
No, yeah, I think, yeah, I see the cattle ranch
in Latin America, so it is a specific type of industry.
So yeah, Like, seriously, she's selling off something that will
make her money long term in order to finance this project,
just to get back at somebody. That's why I think
this is honestly the most kind of self destructive case
(32:50):
of Spikee architecture that we've run into in this in
this series. What do you think?
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah, I intended to agree with you there. You know,
she goes hard on the paint. It takes fourteen months
to build the Kavanaugh Building. That's a record breaking construction period,
super fast, and it broke. The building itself broke multiple records.
It was the tallest reinforced concrete structure in the world,
(33:22):
and for many many years after it was also the
tallest building in all of Latin America. It also became
the first building in the country of Argentina to have
a central ac system, and it looked like it was
of the time in the zeitgeist. It was echoing the
(33:44):
rationalist style that was very popular during its construction.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
But.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Mainly mainly it was doing that style so that the
architects could get around building codes that otherwise would have
limited its size. This is unhitged the story of this building,
and if you look at it now, it's huge. It's
a big, big piece of room. It's a big monument
(34:11):
to revenge.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
It absolutely is, and I guess this wraps up the story.
But speaking of revenge, and I'm pretty sure that you're
a fan of this guy's work, I've been revisiting the
films or visiting for the first time a handful the
films of Park Chan Wook, the incretical Old Boy, Yeah,
the incredible Korean director who has a revenge trilogy, of
(34:35):
which Old Boy is the second one. I think the
first one is Sympathy for Mister Vengeance, then Old Boy,
which probably his most famous film, and then Sympathy for
Lady Vengeance. But I recently watched his film called The Handmaiden,
which is incredible, and also Thirst, which is like a
vampire story that he did where vampirism is treated more
(34:56):
like a disease that you can kind of catch from
like a blood transfusion.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I really liked that.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
We really liked it a lot too, and I had
never seen it, And he's got a couple others that
I've slept on. One that's like a kind of a
romantic comedy called like I'm a Cyborg and that's okay,
or I'm an Android and that's okay. But yeah, I mean,
the Revenge trilogy definitely not architecture based. Pure gnarly asked
the most elaborate type of revenge you can imagine based.
But if you're into that kind of stuff or want
(35:22):
to just to dip your toe in kind of Korean cinema,
highly recommend his work.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Old Boys been showing up in a lot of memes
recently as not the best choice for a first state,
which it isn't, but it does have a beautiful architecture plot.
It is not for children. It is intensely disturbing, and
you must, I try not to be an absolutist, fellow
(35:47):
ridiculous historians, but you must watch the original Korean version.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Oh god, yes, I mean Big Love to Spike Lee.
But that movie does not need to be remade.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Right right, And you know, you get in situations maybe
you had to make it. But the while they both
I'm sure have their have their benefits to have their
unique draws. The original film is the best. Oh man,
have you seen? Speaking of creepy stuff, And this is
a little more in the horror film era, but you
(36:19):
saw a Tale of Two Sisters right absolutely.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
It's not streaming anywhere. And I realized I wanted to
show it to my friend who was visiting, and I
realized that I had a copy of it on DVD.
Thankfully I found it. Yeah, that's a good one too.
I really got into that whole cinematic universe in a big,
big way. I think a lot of people did. But
remember back when, you know, probably we both first discovered it,
like you couldn't get them on DVD. You had to
like get pirateed versions. And then sure, thank god for
(36:44):
tartan Asia Extreme, you know, that was like a DVD
imprint that all of a sudden realized that these were
going to be huge in the in the DVD market
and put them out. And as far as a podcast
recommendation too for this kind of stuff, I think you'd
dig these guys as well. Ben if you have already
heard of it, it's called blank Check with Griffin and
David's Griffin. Oh, I forget his last name, Griffin Newman.
(37:07):
I think he's a he is he plays Arthur in
the live action The Tic TV series. But it's him
and his buddy who's a writer for like a like
a film critic, and they talk about like the films
of directors that were kind of like their blank check
after having a successful run of films, and then the
one that was just their batshit Pie in the Sky project.
But they're in the midst of a full part Chin
(37:28):
Wook retrospective and I think the most recent one is
thirst actually so.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Oh co host The Atlantic film critic David Sim's yep,
good good pods and speaking of good pods, hopefully knock
on wood. Thank you for tuning in here, too ridiculous history.
We'll want to as always and with some thanks, big
big thanks to mister Max Williams, our super producer, and
(37:55):
of course big big thanks to Alex Williams, both for
composed this amazing soundtrack you hear at the beginning and
end of every show. And we're also not pulling the
rug out from under Max when Max went to the
Civil War.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Oh and by the way, I was doing some research
during the episode and turns out the plot of land
that's equidistance between both the all's residents not that expensive.
So I've already bought it and get ready for a giant,
ugly thing to appear, which you will both neither of
which we'll be able to see.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
But Max, you're failing to mention that Ben and I
don't really live that close to each other, so this place,
neither of us will probably ever.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Encounter it right there at the end. But you know what,
when you guys go between each other's places, you'll drive
back and oh, yeah, that's that ridiculously large thing that Max.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Find another route and I'll love it too.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
I love attention. Man's just going to.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Be a giant me giving you a thumbs down.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
That's fine. I'm used to it. I'm glad you've immortalized it.
I support you, can I like, do you have a Kickstarter?
Because I am see.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
How I probably need one now. I basically had every
time I have, and I'm the way there.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Like we like we spent on that Grandfather clock that
we barely ever use except when Jonathan Strickland aka the.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Insurance that we pay on that thing as ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Who knew?
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Who? Knew clock insurance was so heinous.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
A lot of moving parts, you know, right right, But indeed,
thank you to the whole team responsible for maintaining and
ensuring that incredible piece of kit that we rely on
about once a year.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Thanks also to Christopher Hasiotis You're in spirit. Thanks to
Gabe Lucier, Thanks to Eve's Jeffcoats, all of whom have
their own projects afoot.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Huge tanks, to John'strickland the quizzor. We got to get
him to come back now that he knows where we are,
you know, when we're in the office together, and make
make use of that. Maybe we can get our use
of the Grandfather clock up to you know, four or
five times a year. It seemed like a worthwhile use
of such an intense investment. Sure, just listen architecture exactly.
Thanks again to you, Ben, These were great and thanks
(40:04):
to you Noel. We'll see you next time. Folks. For
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much
for tuning in. Let's hear it for the Man, the myth,
the legend, the spite free hopefully super producer, mister Max Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I got a spite at both of y'all. You guys
were singing before we started this, and you didn't invite
me into it. I didn't know what you were singing
because it was probably before my time, but yaw, you
give me spiteful.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
First of all, you don't need to be invited to sing, Max,
That's not how singing works. You're just in yes, please, Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I'm building. I'm want to find we're I want to
find the point that's equidistance between your two places of residence.
I'm want to build a giant, ugly wall just spite
you two.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Well, I don't leave the house, so it won't affect me.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Would you say that we left you with some feathers
in your hand? Does it make it any easier to
leave you where you stand?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Oh? Boy, Ben, Now I got to complete the holes,
and I'm not gonna do it. I'm not going to
be I will not be an enemy at anything. I
only stand here waiting for us to start the show.
Big Counting Crows, by the way, they get a bad rap,
first of all because Adam Durtz and his white boy dreads,
but also, like you know, the shrekification of so many
artists I think was unfortunate, and I think the Counting
(01:42):
Crows fell victim to that.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Such a good writer there, I agree, it's such a
good writer. And as especially we're talking their first two
albums and just you know, they're very much off the
tie and there's some beauty to it.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
The song we're talking about, the Angels of the Silences
off of their second album, I Believe, which is called
something about Satellites. But I played it for my kid
and they loved it. It was just like, you know,
this is emo. It sounds like I'm like, you know,
some of the like like my Chemical Romance or something
like that, and I did. It occurred to me that
they did have a sort of a proto emo kind
of vibe on that record. Doesn't sound like their other stuff.
(02:17):
But check them out, don't don't write them off.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Don't don't. Yeah, there's a reason that people.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
So it's recovering the satellites, that's what we're trying to think.
That's recovering the satellites from like nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
God, that was a long record, a good record, good record.
And with this we want to continue our record of
examining spiteful architecture. Your nol I'm Ben Max, hopefully you're
still Max.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I saw that Max did a deuce deuce on that one.
Nice In our previous episode earlier this week, we talked
we explore two very spiteful structures, one called the Skinny
House and one that's a very strange story about Macy's
the ropes and sunglasses sunglass hot.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
At the very end, Yeah for sure. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Where are we going today?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Though, God, where aren't we going today? Actually gets a
pretty limited place. We're going to a couple of places today.
We are traveling to the San Francisco Bay Area. You know,
to keep in to stay with the music theme, it's
you know, when the sun shines on the bay and
when the lights go out in the city, and that's
the titular bay of journey fame, the Bay area, the
(03:40):
San Francisco Bay, beautiful beautiful place, if not a little
bit over gentrified at this point and swarming with startup
bro types, but still lovely stuff. And if you go
to certain parts of the city, it's yeah, exactly, if
you go to a certain part of the city, there
are things that haven't been, you know, overtaken by this culture.
(04:00):
You can find places that have been grandfathered in or
like family businesses that I think exist is there for
so long, but it's become one of these places that's
just so prohibitively expensive to live or set up a
business that it's almost starting to feel like it's losing
its culture, if I may be so bold.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, and this is a cyclical thing we see with
a lot of cities and a lot of communities when
they become financially successful. You see it often with more
artistic and bohemian areas, little five Points in Atlanta, Georgia,
Montemarte in Paris.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Right, absolutely, yeah, I mean these are these little enclaves
that do usually have some governing body that tries at
the very least to keep you know, corporate interests out.
You know, because these places exist and their stock and
trade is their uniqueness and the fact that they have
this certain kind of you know, authentic vibe and authentic quality.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Right this story, this one is different though. This house
really leans into the fact that it is a spiked house.
It's fifty four feet long, it's twenty feet tall, and
if you look at the front door, there's stained glass
above the door, and in the stained glass it literally
(05:22):
says spite house there on the quarterer of what is
it Christ in Broadway? Is that how you would say
it Christ?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I think that's right. I don't imagine that it's pronounced Christ,
but haven't actually heard anybody speak it. But boy do
I love that. First of all, I love a good
stained glass I may have mentioned that my partner is
a stained glass artist, so I'm a huge fan of
the craft. The lot goes into it. I've learned more
about it than I ever cared to know since we've
been together. But I just adore the fact that they
(05:51):
just went right to the most direct thing possible in
saying spite house and a beautiful piece of stained glass art.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah, and if you look at this, if you look
into this story, you'll see that it really begins in
nineteen oh eight with a man named Charles Frohling, we
know that to be true, but very quickly the origins
of the Spite House faded into myth and legend, and
(06:23):
so you'll hear at times contradictory stories about how this
thing came to be. We'll get the main one out
of the way. The most popular one says that our
pal Charlie built the house as a means of revenge
against the city of Alameda. They used imminent domain to
(06:45):
create this street, Christ Street, and when they did this,
they removed a lot of his property. So imminent domain,
for anybody unfamiliar, is this concept that a municipality or
a government can say, for the great good, we are
taking your private property. We're gonna pay you what we
(07:06):
feel is fair, but you cannot refuse to sell it
to us. And we hear about this mostly in the
US when it comes to things like widening roads, like
making a two lane road a four lane road and
so on.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
That's right, And the neighbor in this case wasn't really
feeling this situation at all. He in fact, was quite
unsympathetic actually to this situation, as was written in the
San Francisco Gate article on the subject by Jordan Gwynn.
(07:38):
Unsympathetic to the point of spite. Actually, you know, so
in another situation of trying to block the light out
of somebody's domicile, he said about building a home adjacent
to the property that would block the sunlight from entering
the northeast side of this Victorian home.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yeah. So basically the city made his original home building
plans impossible, and his neighbor was kind of rude to
him about it. So he said, Okay, new plan. I'm
gonna screw over your house. But people who look into
this actually don't believe this most common story.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
We see a lot of this in these spiite tales,
right where there's like conflicting narratives or just nameless brothers,
you know.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, so we found one historian mentioned in the San
Francisco newspaper you said it just a second ago, who says, first,
Chris Street already existed and the city of Alameda actually
didn't seize any of Charlie's land. Instead, this spite house
may go back to a good old case of old
(08:53):
fashioned sibling rivalry.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
We're doing a callback to our earlier episode Brother against
Brother love it.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Oh yeah, I hate to see it, but also usually
makes for some interesting drama. So in this version of
the tale, once again a couple of brothers, you know,
brothers related to one another.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
It keeps reminding me of that inter dimensional cable episode
from Rick and Morton, for sure.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Two brothers and a van, and then a meteor comes
and they run from giant cat monsters and two brothers
meteor stuff and another and then there's giant cat ladies
and there's an armauna of tomato wielding things. And then
you wouldn't know this, but the brothers they're just normal brothers.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Oh yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Think, like, I think, I'm sure about seventy percent accurate.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
All this to say that, you know, a pair of
brothers feuding or just going on an adventure is a
good starting place for any story, right, yeah, okay, that
would take away, So that's away, I think. So in
this version of detail, a pair of nameless brothers once
again inherited this lot and uh a very similar callback
(10:07):
to the previous story. One of them sold most of
the land while his sibling was out of town, not
necessarily at war, just just out on a little excursion,
you know, codition, Yeah, who knows, And of course this
led to the other brother feeling wronged in some you know,
really that's pretty pretty messed up. It's not nice to
(10:28):
sell your co property out from under, you know, one
of the other co owners.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah. And one thing that's funny to me about this
is when I hear these bro v bro stories, it
always makes me very very thankful that all of my
friends who do have siblings actually seem to get on
with each other pretty well. You know, like Max and
Alex Williams. No savior, savior come to see commissa hands there, Savior,
(10:57):
middling handwave there, Max, you and like to actually get
along quite well, at least when company's over.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Well, look, Max Brazil. You know, mile age may vary
in terms of your interpretation, but I will side with
Ben and saying that observationally speaking, y'all are some of
the most amicable siblings that I've ever encountered, So take
that for what it's worth.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
We're basically the exact same age. I mean, we're eighteen
months apart, and we get along very well. I mean
we've now worked at two jobs together. We have lived
together in college, and then we lived six houses.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Apart from each other for three years.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
And you taught me to play dice.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Yes, same, Yeah, it's always calls me the rule masters.
I think it's because I'm like mega neurotic and very
organized in every aspect of my life.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
I learned how to play dice from the two of
you as well. And yeah, I really can I can
attest that you are the rule master at least in
what was it One for twenty four? I think it
was the game that we like to play. Oh yeah,
One for twenty four is the best. That's a good one.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Yeah, actually, I think that's when we were playing Ben.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Probably, So it's a go to. It's classic. It's good
fun to you know, when you make it interesting. You know,
wager few shekels in there, and it's a lot of fun.
So unless I'm mistaken, though, Max, neither one of you
have either sold a parcel of land out from under
the other. No, not yet.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
And to be completely honest, if one of us was
gonna be the villain brother, it would probably be me.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
It just seems so. It seems like the kind of
move you wouldn't even do to a non related colleague,
you know, if you are, if you are in the
same boat together. You know what it gets me about
these stories and beat me here, Max. What gets me
about these stories is the real gewitness about it. It's
(12:39):
not just selling the land or building on the land.
It's that you're selling most of it and leaving.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
The dregs the dregs.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
But that's like giving someone a partially used Starbucks gift
card for their birthday and saying, I know it says
twenty dollars on there, but I think there's about four
dollars left. I thought of you, bro, Yeah, that's exactly right.
It means purposely hurtful.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
It's a little different, but it is. It does remind
me of the Macy story with the weird little corner
that was barely useful but still useful in this kind
of like weird spiteful flex situation. But this is not that.
This is the reverse of that, because this is someone
who is purposefully leaving that amount to the other, whether
(13:30):
purposefully or just absent mindedly perhaps and just thoughtlessly. Right, yeah,
and why not sell the whole thing? Was he really thinking? Question?
This would be cool? He'll be fine with this, Like
what is this his consolation prize?
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Like? Ugh, so this house? It actually does it reminds
me of house is I said this previously in part one.
It reminds me of some houses you might see in
other countries. Right, it's built into a awkward small amount
of space. I think it's twelve feet wide at its
most broad points broadest point. And we still don't know
(14:06):
a ton of facts about it because of the time
of which it was constructed. But thank goodness, historians have
done some pretty serious digging here and they learned some
strange things. One unfortunate fact they learned is that Charles
(14:30):
Frowling's neighbor, one Annette Westerdall, actually died a few weeks
before the spite House was completely built, and it appears,
unfortunately that she may have taken her own life. One
neighbor said that before she passed away, she was worried
the erection of this two story dwelling would shut out
(14:54):
the sunlight from a part of her house, and that
was quoted in the San Francisco Chronicle back in eight nineteen.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, back back in eighty nineteen o eight, that is
for sure. And this unfortunate death did lead to some
you know, some whispers on the street, whispers in the
front yard. I heard about knights out in the school yard.
Sorry back in the nineties, better than Ezra? Right, the
idea of these other properties were haunted, that both of
(15:24):
these homes were haunted. And actually there was some evidence
that exorcisms took place in the seventies nineteen seventies.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yes, I don't know if we did that last one,
but yeah, yeah, yeah, And at this point the people who.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Have real Jim Blossom, sorry, not better than.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Well, they were very much of the era. Better than Ezra.
What they have King of New Orleans that was also
desperately wanting, desperately want behind Who is Ezra? Why is
it so.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
He's apparently less than He's deficient in some way?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Right we and yes, dear ridiculous historians, we know we
could solve this very quickly if we just typed it
into a search engine. But we're having fun.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
I have a sense that it's a biblical reference. What
do you think?
Speaker 1 (16:20):
I feel like I read about it one time, the
last time I was in a nineties rabbit hole, but
whatever the answer was didn't really stick with me. I'm
sure it's out there though, and there's there's still around, right,
Actually they are.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
I just found an article and said better than Ezra
front man won't divulge the secret behind the band's name.
Oh oh, mystery remains.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
He's like Tom Yorke with that lip syncing in that
one music video. Remember I don't know if I do,
but there's a radio Head video where one of the
actors in the in the film is saying, it's like
a short film in course his mouth yeah, and he
talked box uh and the mainstream doesn't know what he's saying.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Any really quickly, and then we sort of move on.
There is also a really great clip of Tom York
being asked, like in the nineties, what creep is about
and he goes, creep is about up Now it's gone on.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Fantas I love when he trolls people in interviews.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
And Greenwood is standing there catatonic. Give him. The man
never says a word. It was also an ageless vampire,
by the way.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
And there's also the thing is Tom Yorke has a
bit of a Tom Waits esque or a Bob Dylan
esque approach to interviews. Oh gosh, I love it anyway,
So these guys probably would be in despite architecture as
just a thing. In addition to music, you're always.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Quote Waits is what's he building in there? That makes
me think of it's a Spike house. That's what he's building.
That's what he's building. We found the answer, well done, man,
I like that one.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
So the people who live in the alimated spite House
have never themselves encountered paranormal activity, but we do know
that at one point a single person owned both the
spite House and a Victorian house next door, and this
guy threw parties at the spite House and turned the
lower level into a bar. We know the house was
(18:25):
abandoned at one point. It got it became derelict, and
it was almost torn down completely. But the public got
together and they said save the spite House, Saved the
Spite House, or something akin to that.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Earlier in the episode, I think it was in part
or maybe it was the last one. You said something
about how the house was made of spite, and I
just love the idea of spite as like a building material.
I want to know what it's graded for. Can it
be load bearing? You know, like it's just I don't know.
My mind ran wild when you said that.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
The house that Spiite built. Yeah, that does sound sohat poetic.
We could we could do a ridiculous history studios on
that one.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
I got a problem with this.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Nice nice And so you can read again in that
excellent article that you cited, folks, you can read about
the day to day life of the family that lives there.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Now.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
They are living there by choice, not because they were
driven to it by privation or danger. But that is
one example of something that ended well overall, Now you're
living in a little bit of history. There's no bad blood,
it's not haunted. It's also not the last example of
(19:41):
a spiked house. This one's confusing to me. The mont
Lake Pie House.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Yeah, well, first of all, I mean it sounds.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Like fun, like a restaurant. Yeah, I want to go
to the pie House.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Well, have you ever seen that show Pushing Daisies. It
didn't run that long, but it was.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Really criminally unbreable Susian.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
I believe that the creator went on to do Hannibal,
which is also amazing and not like that show at all.
Pushing Daisy was very colorful, and I mean, so it
was Hannibal, but it had some death qualities where people
could be like like brought back to life. But it
revolved around a pie shop called the Pie Hole. That
I believe was shaped like a pie. If I'm not mistaken.
(20:23):
In the show, it had like you know, and when
I think about things like that, I think about Pizza
Hut and how like early in the branding of Pizza
they decided they were going to have a unique design
to all of their buildings. And then when you know,
time rendered that sort of dated, uh, and the company
pivoted and rebranded. You have all these weird pizza hut
(20:45):
former pizza huts just just scatter everywhere the hither and
yon you know, if you don't know what I'm talking about,
it's obviously that weird hat shaped red roof situation. So
that's what I think of when I think of a
pie house. But maybe I'm wrong here.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
No, you're you're making I mean, if you look at it,
it simply looks like a door as someone built a
door frame and they just kept going into the back.
It is only fifty five inches across at its narrowest point,
and it is a pie shaped house that was apparently
(21:21):
built entirely to cut off a larger home from the street.
It reminds me of the geography in a way. It
reminds me of the geography of Croatia and Serbia. You
know what I'm talking about, Like, how have you guys
seen that? Hang on, wait, I want to show you.
This is I see it shaped like a slice of pie,
(21:43):
like a slice of pie, not like a fully piece.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Got see. I was confused there for a second, but
I'm looking at it. Yeah, it's almost like it disappears
off into the horizon, like the walls get narrower as
you continue to walk. It could be used as like
some sort of weird you know, the labyrinth kind of
tactic where if you're like going, you eventually get crushed
to death by the walls or something like that. But
(22:07):
this is a little more lighthearted than that.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah. Yeah, And I want to amend what I was
saying earlier there. That was my folks, guys, I said Serbia,
I meant Bosnia and Herzegovina. Let me let me share.
Let me share this with you. I promise it'll be
worth it. This is an example of what I think
we could call spikee geography. Can you see that.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
A little bit at the bottom of cand you describe it?
It's the dregs. I mean, once again, it's just like
it's it's such a tiny crumb of land as to
be absolutely useless.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Right, it's just to block them from having access to
the water. We talked about this in a different country,
different part of the world, but it's the exact same thing.
And the war over Bird Poop episode one of the
South American countries having this little stretch of land that
blocks an entire other one from having any access to
(23:03):
the water.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
So spide is not just for houses. But I had
to bring up that slight discoursion because that reminds me
of what's happening with Pie House, and you described it perfectly.
Here's another local legend. Again, the sources on all this
stuff aren't super great. So this neighbor goes to the
(23:25):
owner of the land to purchase a plot of land
in nineteen twenty five, but offers a price so low
that the owner is insulted, and they're so insulted that
they build this house that's basically a slice of pie
(23:46):
just to get back at the person. That's one story,
but there's another story as well, right.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
That's right. The other account claims the house was built
when the wife of the owner was given this tiny
lot in a divorce settlement. Again like this sort of
poultry kind of barely useful piece of land. And once
again it's like a kind of fighting over a piece
of land where someone gets the dregs. Well, her ex
(24:14):
supposedly got the rest of the property, and someone who
actually owned the property recently said that the profile of
the house wasn't really that big a deal except when
it came to cooking because of the just the logistics
of the space where all the kitchen hookups were.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Oh yeah, she said she had to when she opened
the oven door, she had to stand to one side
so she didn't get pinned against the wall.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah, and seems unless you think, you know, this type
of shape would maybe render a house like this less valuable.
Not the case. It actually quite recently sold for four
hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Holy smokes, what is this Atlanta?
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeah, very much.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
She walked down the street for that one.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Oh we're there, we're there. But the eight hundred and
sixty square foot home, you could liken it and curb
Seattle does just that. You could liken it to the
layout of like a houseboat, okay, because the houseboat has
to taper a little bit, right, sure, I mean I
guess it doesn't. I've seen you see square ones or
rectangular ones, right, but sometimes you know there is a
(25:23):
point that they will kind of taper.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
A little bit, and they're usually rectangular. They're they're long
and narrow by design, so that makes sense. You get
all the inconvenience of a houseboat with none of the
appeal of living on the water.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
That's right, that's true. I would love to, at the
very least airbnb a houseboat sometime. I think that air cool.
They are so cool.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
We should absolutely, you know what, that's how we know
when we made it. We should absolutely get houseboats.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Yeah, or Airbnb one.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
But I'd be okay, okay, you're right, I'm yet again,
I'm going I'm going all gas.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
No, who needs the breaks? Man, They're they're overrated, except
if when I stop but that we're not done, and
I think, yeah, we've got a good one. To close
this episode out with the pretty innocuous and somewhat boringly
named no Pie House. The Kavanaugh Building. This just sounds
(26:25):
like a place where business is conducted.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yes, Once upon a time in the nineteen thirties, Koreina
Kavanaugh was a rich, beautiful, and determined woman, her family
was extremely wealthy, but old money they were not. I
don't know why I I hostually went like Disney fable.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Well, there's been some fable aspects to a lot of these,
and then I think that was a great way to
start this is Yeah, they weren't old money. So this
is in I believe, Argentina. So there's you know, a
very installed enshrenched aristocracy there, and folks who come into
money later in life for some reason, are looked down upon.
(27:09):
They're considered like the nouveau riche, you know, and that
is a term of abuse, and they are not afforded
the same kind of you know, privileges and respect that
maybe landed gentry, you know, might be in terms of
like legacy family money for whatever reason, that matters. And
old money tends to be suspicious and a little bit
(27:33):
guarded when it comes to folks that come into money
later in life.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Absolutely, yeah, because money does not necessarily buy social status.
And he nailed it with the description of the so
called novou riche. So Koreina Capital, despite being very wealthy,
is ostracized by other people at her income level, and
(27:57):
she has a romantic liaison, a troubling affair with a
young man who is born into a very very established
old money family. He is the son of Mercedes Castianos
de Ankorina and this old money family, you know, to them,
(28:19):
it's like a Romeo and Juliet thing. They hate this relationship.
You're dating new money. Have you lost all respect for
your heritage? And they use their influence to end the relationship.
So Karina Kavanaugh is humiliated, She's hurt. She dedicates herself
to vengeance and being a lady of a noble bearing,
(28:45):
she decides that she is not going to you know,
show up at the estate with a knife, you know,
run them over with horses or something. In nineteen thirties,
maybe it would have been a car instead. She turns
to architecture.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Yeah, the old trustee, right, the Basilica of the Holy
Sacrament is a gorgeous historical church that is now available,
you know, for the public to tour to check out.
But in its original days it was a private mausoleum
(29:23):
of a very wealthy family, the Anchorinas, who lived in
the San Martin Plaza, in a mansion that is now
the site of the Argentine Foreign Ministry.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah, and the deal is that is not close enough
for the old Bunny and Garina family, especially the matriarch
of the family, and she says, you know what, we
need to be closer to the basilica. So I Am
going to buy a vacant lot directly in front of
(30:00):
the basilica, will build our new family mansion there will
be It'll be so convenient for us to attend services
and whatnot. And so Corina Kavanaugh picture her listening in
the shadows, and she says, I'm going to foil their plans.
I will take my revenge. So, just like a brother
(30:21):
in the Civil War or something, she waits for the
matriarch Mercedes to go on vacation, and then she goes
to the person who owns the land. She doubles the
offer of the real estate and snatches up that land.
Boom boom boom. And then while the Ankara family is
still on vacation, Karna contacts these very famous architects, Sanchez
(30:45):
Lagos and de la Torre and says, I need you
to build a huge building. And they say how huge
and she says enormous and they say why and she says,
in hirely to obstruct the view of the church from
as many angles as possible.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
First of all, I would have said, it's none of
your business, take by the money. Second of all, a
lot of mischief going down while people are out of
town in these stories, you know a lot of people
swooping in and buying land out from under people and
using it for nefarious purposes. And so the construction commences,
(31:28):
and she really would be, you know, as John Hammond
would say, spaed no expense, also as the Argentina Traveler
would say, she did this at a great expense to
herself and her own wealth. To see, this is where
the spite becomes interesting, when it starts to like you're
so pissed off. You're doing this thing just to inconvenient
(31:51):
somebody else, and you're doing it like at cost to
your like you're getting rid of your own assets. She
had to sell three of her own properties and Vanada
Tweto in order to finance the project. I believe the
expression is cutting off your nose to spite your neighbor
or your face.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Yeah whatever, Yeah, no close enough.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Stas is that just like Stancias? Is that like a
type of villa a.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Couple things, Yeah, it can be like a ranch. I
think they're using it to mean ranch in this in
this situation, but the direct translation is uh, instances, so
it's definitely not instance.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
No, yeah, I think, yeah, I see the cattle ranch
in Latin America, so it is a specific type of industry.
So yeah, Like, seriously, she's selling off something that will
make her money long term in order to finance this project,
just to get back at somebody. That's why I think
this is honestly the most kind of self destructive case
(32:50):
of Spikee architecture that we've run into in this in
this series. What do you think?
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah, I intended to agree with you there. You know,
she goes hard on the paint. It takes fourteen months
to build the Kavanaugh Building. That's a record breaking construction period,
super fast, and it broke. The building itself broke multiple records.
It was the tallest reinforced concrete structure in the world,
(33:22):
and for many many years after it was also the
tallest building in all of Latin America. It also became
the first building in the country of Argentina to have
a central ac system, and it looked like it was
of the time in the zeitgeist. It was echoing the
(33:44):
rationalist style that was very popular during its construction.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
But.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Mainly mainly it was doing that style so that the
architects could get around building codes that otherwise would have
limited its size. This is unhitged the story of this building,
and if you look at it now, it's huge. It's
a big, big piece of room. It's a big monument
(34:11):
to revenge.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
It absolutely is, and I guess this wraps up the story.
But speaking of revenge, and I'm pretty sure that you're
a fan of this guy's work, I've been revisiting the
films or visiting for the first time a handful the
films of Park Chan Wook, the incretical Old Boy, Yeah,
the incredible Korean director who has a revenge trilogy, of
(34:35):
which Old Boy is the second one. I think the
first one is Sympathy for Mister Vengeance, then Old Boy,
which probably his most famous film, and then Sympathy for
Lady Vengeance. But I recently watched his film called The Handmaiden,
which is incredible, and also Thirst, which is like a
vampire story that he did where vampirism is treated more
(34:56):
like a disease that you can kind of catch from
like a blood transfusion.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I really liked that.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
We really liked it a lot too, and I had
never seen it, And he's got a couple others that
I've slept on. One that's like a kind of a
romantic comedy called like I'm a Cyborg and that's okay,
or I'm an Android and that's okay. But yeah, I mean,
the Revenge trilogy definitely not architecture based. Pure gnarly asked
the most elaborate type of revenge you can imagine based.
But if you're into that kind of stuff or want
(35:22):
to just to dip your toe in kind of Korean cinema,
highly recommend his work.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Old Boys been showing up in a lot of memes
recently as not the best choice for a first state,
which it isn't, but it does have a beautiful architecture plot.
It is not for children. It is intensely disturbing, and
you must, I try not to be an absolutist, fellow
(35:47):
ridiculous historians, but you must watch the original Korean version.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Oh god, yes, I mean Big Love to Spike Lee.
But that movie does not need to be remade.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Right right, And you know, you get in situations maybe
you had to make it. But the while they both
I'm sure have their have their benefits to have their
unique draws. The original film is the best. Oh man,
have you seen? Speaking of creepy stuff, And this is
a little more in the horror film era, but you
(36:19):
saw a Tale of Two Sisters right absolutely.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
It's not streaming anywhere. And I realized I wanted to
show it to my friend who was visiting, and I
realized that I had a copy of it on DVD.
Thankfully I found it. Yeah, that's a good one too.
I really got into that whole cinematic universe in a big,
big way. I think a lot of people did. But
remember back when, you know, probably we both first discovered it,
like you couldn't get them on DVD. You had to
like get pirateed versions. And then sure, thank god for
(36:44):
tartan Asia Extreme, you know, that was like a DVD
imprint that all of a sudden realized that these were
going to be huge in the in the DVD market
and put them out. And as far as a podcast
recommendation too for this kind of stuff, I think you'd
dig these guys as well. Ben if you have already
heard of it, it's called blank Check with Griffin and
David's Griffin. Oh, I forget his last name, Griffin Newman.
(37:07):
I think he's a he is he plays Arthur in
the live action The Tic TV series. But it's him
and his buddy who's a writer for like a like
a film critic, and they talk about like the films
of directors that were kind of like their blank check
after having a successful run of films, and then the
one that was just their batshit Pie in the Sky project.
But they're in the midst of a full part Chin
(37:28):
Wook retrospective and I think the most recent one is
thirst actually so.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Oh co host The Atlantic film critic David Sim's yep,
good good pods and speaking of good pods, hopefully knock
on wood. Thank you for tuning in here, too ridiculous history.
We'll want to as always and with some thanks, big
big thanks to mister Max Williams, our super producer, and
(37:55):
of course big big thanks to Alex Williams, both for
composed this amazing soundtrack you hear at the beginning and
end of every show. And we're also not pulling the
rug out from under Max when Max went to the
Civil War.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Oh and by the way, I was doing some research
during the episode and turns out the plot of land
that's equidistance between both the all's residents not that expensive.
So I've already bought it and get ready for a giant,
ugly thing to appear, which you will both neither of
which we'll be able to see.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
But Max, you're failing to mention that Ben and I
don't really live that close to each other, so this place,
neither of us will probably ever.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Encounter it right there at the end. But you know what,
when you guys go between each other's places, you'll drive
back and oh, yeah, that's that ridiculously large thing that Max.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Find another route and I'll love it too.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
I love attention. Man's just going to.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Be a giant me giving you a thumbs down.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
That's fine. I'm used to it. I'm glad you've immortalized it.
I support you, can I like, do you have a Kickstarter?
Because I am see.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
How I probably need one now. I basically had every
time I have, and I'm the way there.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Like we like we spent on that Grandfather clock that
we barely ever use except when Jonathan Strickland aka the.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Insurance that we pay on that thing as ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Who knew?
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Who? Knew clock insurance was so heinous.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
A lot of moving parts, you know, right right, But indeed,
thank you to the whole team responsible for maintaining and
ensuring that incredible piece of kit that we rely on
about once a year.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Thanks also to Christopher Hasiotis You're in spirit. Thanks to
Gabe Lucier, Thanks to Eve's Jeffcoats, all of whom have
their own projects afoot.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Huge tanks, to John'strickland the quizzor. We got to get
him to come back now that he knows where we are,
you know, when we're in the office together, and make
make use of that. Maybe we can get our use
of the Grandfather clock up to you know, four or
five times a year. It seemed like a worthwhile use
of such an intense investment. Sure, just listen architecture exactly.
Thanks again to you, Ben, These were great and thanks
(40:04):
to you Noel. We'll see you next time. Folks. For
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
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Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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