October 17, 2023 • 47 mins
Since the dawn of civilization, humanity has been trying to figure out where to put all its poop. While it's easy to take your average flushing commode for granted, it turns out thousands of years of research went into creating the toilets we use today. Tune in as Ben, Noel, and Casey dive into the bizarre history of modern restrooms.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much
for tuning in. Can we get some like prestigious, cinematic,
like Oppenheimer level music? Because I'm Ben your Noel Desih
we have come full circle. We have a very special
returning guest. Folks, clap, cheer, raised, rackous applause and awe
(00:53):
for our returning super producer, the one, the only mister
Casey Pegro.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Oh man.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
It's great to be back with you, guys. It's great
to be back talking to everybody.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
It's good to have you back, Casey. And what a
for poetous occasion.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I mean, I'm honored to be asked back. But at
the same time, the choice of topics here today, is
there some kind of secret message you're trying to send
me a great no? Oh, okay, we're sub tweeting you.
I think you're just adding me directly.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, and now we're just tasking you directly. Oh twitter
h So Casey, before we begin, of course, we picked
the classiest possible topic to explore with you today and
explore over this week. But before we begin, we've had
so many of our fellow ridiculous historians asking about you,
inquiring about your adventures. Even no, I don't know if
(01:49):
you saw it, but even a few people constructing conspiracy theories.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I love that love. I need to hear these theories.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah, we'll get to them, but first, just give us
the straight poop here. Let us know how it's been going.
What's up man? Life changes?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah, yeah, so big, big life changes. So to go
back to the long, long ago days of February twenty
twenty one, my wife Joelle and I welcomed our son, Tarik,
and his birth was a little chaotic, a little unexpected,
a little early, quite a bit early, two days shy
of six months, so not quite six months of gestation,
(02:26):
which obviously meant a long stay in the nick you
you know it was. It was a very uncertain time,
very stressful time. So and it happened, of course, right
in the middle of our production schedule, so like very
quickly we had to have other people come on and
start assisting, and super producer Max was a huge part
of that, but the whole team there just like pitched in.
(02:46):
It was incredibly heartwarming the way everybody just jumped in
action and made that happen on zero notice, Well, it
was so.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Crazy on your end that we didn't even fully know
what was going on, because I think there was just
like it was such an uncertain time that you know,
we weren't you weren't even really able to communicate with us.
So we were just kind of worried and had your back,
of course, But then we were so happy to hear
that everything ultimately turned out great and that you have
a beautiful son who is.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Now a giant.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Is a giant for his age, you know, and being premature.
He's he's he's breaking the curve so pretty regular, you
know what. He has like the perfect poop schedule because
in the regular German compliments, he's he's regular. It's in
the morning and it is after we drop him off
at daycare. I've changed like not that many poopy diapers
(03:35):
in the last you know, three to six months.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
It's amazing, don't cheeks yourself. That is so good to
have you back case. When as our pal a super producer,
Max Williams lit out for the territories on some adventures
of his own. Uh, he and Noel and I all
agreed and we're like, there's who who can fill in
for Max. Well, there's only one guy. And it was
(04:00):
like it was like all those scenes in eighties action
films where they're like we have to called in the
badger or something.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Remember that scene in the Tim Burton Batman. I think
it's Jack Palance plays like the big bad mob boss.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
He goes Jack.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
You can't remember him doing push ups on the oscars?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Oh Jack allis Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah, I think he Maybe he won for Best Supporting
Actor and I could be wrong about it, but for
whatever reason, he was on stage and he just got
up there and he started. He dropped, and he did
like ten or twenty, I don't know what, just to
prove that he still had Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
At least he definitely had it.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I feel like doing ten push ups is I don't
want to sound rude, but I feel like doing ten
push ups is not super.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah, but he was like seventy or something.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Okay kidding, I'll do one and be impressed. Okay, So
so uh.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
We had an episode a while back Casey about the
weird and somewhat disturbing history of soap, which may involve
ritual sacrifice, and this got us thinking about another bathroom
stand by the toilet. Where did it come from? You know,
we know you had a great idea. A few years
(05:16):
ago we did an episode all about bidets, and we
actually contacted a bidet company and sort of gave him
the hard cell. Casey, you were there. You remember this.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Golden the golden era of ridiculous history.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
So we started to cogitate and ask ourselves, what's the
straight poop? Where does the toilet actually come from?
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Because we also did an episode on underwear that was
a tie in with Fruit of the Loom.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
So if any toilet companies want to sponsor this episode
after the fact, we you know, we're here for it.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
We will shill.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
We will shill for your product.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Send Japanese toilets, Toto please, I'm going to say it.
I know not everybody wants to admit this because there's
a little bit of anism involved, but the nation of
Japan is pooping in the future. Those toilets are amazing.
Have you guys ever used like the fancy Japanese toilets?
Speaker 4 (06:10):
No, but there's a really good episode of Bob's Burgers
where Jeane falls in love essentially with a Japanese toilet
that talks and all of this good stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
It's pretty wild.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Yeah, there's things can get up there and cost you know,
even just like a sort of bargain basement model, like
a topper for your traditional commods. Those can run you
in the hundreds of dollars. But then if you want
one that's like fully flushed out, yeah, okay, those can
be thousands and thousands of dollars. And they yeah, they
do things like you know, rotating bedeys, like a little
(06:46):
whirlwind in your butt that can be heated.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
They have like customizable features so they know who is
sitting down in the home. Got these nice gentle burst
of air.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
I got it.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
It's one of the every time I've been to Japan,
I can't help it. The first and number one tourist
attraction for me as the airport toilet. I'm just consistently amazed.
And it took a long way to get there, because
people have been pooping way before they figured out how
to clean up their poop or how to safely transport
it away from their living quarters. We know that the humans'
(07:25):
closest relative, the chimpanzee, was already practicing some form of
restroom hygiene, and that tells us that other primates likely
did the same thing as they evolved into humans.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
It's pretty wild. Apes apparently, you know, know how to
keep themselves relatively feces free, despite their reputation. And you know,
they do play with it. Sometimes they'll throw it at you.
They'll they'll throw it at you, while we as humans
may not do that on a good day.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
On a bad day, you know, I'll bets are off.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
But apparently we are filthier in terms of our ability
to you know, track, collect and track poop particles. I
did not even think about this until I moved in
with my girlfriend and she was very insistent that I
closed the toilet lid before flushing.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I did. I did. I maybe I'm a disgusting man.
I'm a disgusting man or just a man, but I did.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Not realize this is a thing, especially in a small
bathroom where the sink is right next to the toilet.
If you flush it, it's like a poop bomb going on.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
It really is.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
You know, it's the particles you can't see. But bolt,
it's not gonna stop, y'all. It's not gonna stop. But
stick with us. It's worth it, we promise. So chimps
are good at like pooping off the side of their
sleeping areas and and doing it directly and not tracking
it in. But apparently, you know, since we often are
barefoot in the house or in the bathroom or whatever,
(08:48):
if you don't close the lid and you flush the toilet,
then you're getting it on the floor, then you're put
tracking it on your feet, then it ends up in
your bed. So apparently chimpanzees sleeping areas test much cleaner
than human beings sleeping areas. Scott forbid of hotels. Can
you even imagine, Well, we don't want to go there,
We've been there on our other show.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yes, yeah, check out the stuff hotels don't want you
to know.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
And it's up to you whether you want to bring
a UV light on your trip or not. But will
it will change the way the way you see things?
So yeah, no, I'm glad you mentioned this. This is
a study conducted by Adriana Hernandez Aguilar and Fiona Stewart,
and they found.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Exactly what you're describing.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Chimpanzees were much much cleaner and because of the closing
the lid thing, because a lot of us aren't stopping
the catapult when it settles on the floor, it can
go anywhere from there, you know what I mean. How
far away from your bathroom is your kitchen. That's another
huge issue, and we're not going to disparage them. Yes,
(09:54):
people have always tried to be clean, even in very
very dirty times, and people seem to have always he's
known that feces could be dangerous. If you go way
back to the time of the Sumerians, you'll see that
they had something like toilets thousands and thousands of years ago.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Yeah, three thousand, five hundred and three thousand BCE to
be precise, the Samarians in Mesopotamia, they built these ancient
versions of toilets, which were essentially deep pits that had tubes,
kind of ceramic tubing if you can picture maybe something
you might see in a garden or something along the
(10:31):
lines of like roofing shingles maybe, but like you know,
tubular and that's what they sat upon. And then they
were able to love the word excret excreta. Yeah, it
sounds like a prog rock band or like a Mars
Volta album.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
It sounds like what Maynard from Tool would call his
home poop.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
It probably does call it something like that. He probably
gives it a cute little pet name. That's an odd cat,
right there. A big fan of wine. He's a big
fan of wine winery guy. Yeah yeah, So this again,
according to the research, the solid excreta excreta would would
keep it in there. This the lining would keep it
in there, and the liquid would seep out through holes.
(11:13):
There was of course, you know, they hadn't quite figured
out moving running water yet, so there wasn't like a
way to flush fast. Forward a bit to the ancient
Babylonians and Assyrians, who also had toilets.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah, so what we've already established, toilets are older than
Jesus Christ. This is very ancient technology. The Assyrians did
something similar. They would take two small walls and they
would put the very close together with a narrow gap
for the feces to fall through, and then it went
directly into the canals. So you're just sort of pooping
(11:49):
in the water system. God be with you. People didn't
really evolve past that until the ancient Greeks and Romans
started bringing toilets to the masses. If you are looking
at the toilet timeline, you'll see the innovations were pretty
clogged until about one thousand years after the Sumerians.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Unfortunately, though, as is often the case, this is typically
for the well to do. I'm not going to even
say it, I already said it. Let it sink in
poorer members of society. Unfortunately, we're kind of just doing
the like solitary confinement treatment, you know, a bucket more
or less a barrel that was I think the larger
(12:36):
vessel that they would dump their chamber pots into. And
we of course know that this went on into you know,
the Middle.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Ages, you know, medieval times.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
The idea of a chamber pot is even something you
hear about in like you know, Dickens occasionally, I believe,
you know. And when we talked, we're gonna talk about
the Great Stink of London. I believe at some point
this is all very much tied together. As long is
there have been humans pooping, there have been humans trying
to figure out how to get as far away from
that stuff as possible.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
And who has to do the dirty job of cleaning
it at this point. In an ancient manu in civilization
over on the island of Crete, the people who had
private toilets in their homes were very much the elite.
They were the top one percent. It was like having
an indoor pool. In the cities. A lot of people
(13:27):
used publicly trains. These things were open for fifty to
sixty people at a time and they were just continually
flushing out the crap. This was a meeting spot for people. So, okay,
two things. One thing that always confuses me. We go
to so many hotels when we're on the road and
you've seen this. Two case, I'm sure the phone by
(13:50):
the toilet. Why why is there the phone by the toilet?
You know what I mean. The first time I saw
it was at our old office and Buckhead from Babyface Records, Right.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
I was thinking of that that was the status thing, right,
that was that was kind of a phone by they.
I mean, not like it's super expensive, but it's sort
of like I'm so important that I can't even take
five minutes away from main contactable because it's all pre
cell phone.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Did did you notice spend that when we were in
Vegas recently? Did your hotel room have a phone by
the toilet as well?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yes, which just seemed very very vegasy.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, I guess right.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
You need a like you.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
You have a you have a light bulb moment on
the toilet and you call downstairs and put two hundred
on you know, the the braves or something. Anyway, it
turns out this idea of discussing business matters on the
toilet dates back to Roman civilization, Greco Roman civilization, because
there would be this massive people like at a It
(14:53):
reminds me of those giant restrooms at stadiums. You guys,
remember where they used to have the troth, the trough.
I hated the but they've got this big thing. And
when you would go to the bathroom here in this
time in ancient Greece, you weren't going to just do
your business and leave people hung out. And they talked
(15:15):
about you know, work stuff. That feels like, I don't know,
I'm glad modern boundaries exist now.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I came up with a fun rhyme.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Yeah, the elite of crete sure didn't know how to
excrete perfect, and that's I apropos of nothing. At this
point we've moved on, but I couldn't let that one
languish on the vine.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I have to say this, this is reminding me of
this kind of an obscure reference. But There's an old
Louis Benwell film called The Phantom of Liberty, And there's
a sequence in that movie which is just a sequence
of dreams and weird things. But it's a kind of
a high society dinner, except the bathroom and the dinner
area are reversed, So everybody sits at the toilet together
(15:58):
in a group and poops.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
And.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Then and then they all they all get up to
leave and go off into these closed, tiny chambers and
eat their food.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Alone without anybody. I get.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
He just knew how to flip the script on on
polite society, did he didn't He also do the what
was it the unique charms of the speech, that's the
one with the iconic poster with like the giant pair
of lips with yes lady legs exactly image.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Do you guys are what's your policy on speaking in
the bathroom.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Like to others? Yeah? Or to myself?
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Well, I don't like it.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
I don't like it. It feels invasive.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
You mean, well, if if it's up to you, maybe
it's invasive to the other person too, because they're like, dude,
I don't want to talk to you while you're doing that,
or so it.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Just starts talking to you. You know, that's one thing
that I think Atlanta takes a little too far sometimes.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah, a public bath wait, no, why somebody else in
my personal bathroom?
Speaker 4 (16:58):
No, no, no, I just I just don't em as somebody
you maybe you cohabitate with, like shouting at you across
the house.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Okay, in the bathroom. Oh, you're right.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
This idea of the public latrine being like a meat market,
that sounds gross, but we.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
All know what we mean by that. Really. Yeah, it's
a little weird.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
That does seem you know, like yeah, but you know what,
it's also kind of like an old timey thing, the
idea of making conversation with someone at the urinals that that,
you know, old school folks maybe would do that, But
now these kids don't even make phone calls anymore. I
mean this, they would die, They would die. I enjoy
the boundary. I believe that good fences make good neighbors,
(17:35):
but the ancient Greeks sure did not. These public commodes
did have technological innovation, though. It's the first evidence of
water being actively used to carry away waste instead of
stuff just dumping into a river. And you know, the
Romans come along, They rip off all the Greek stuff
the way that we ripped off that law and order
(17:56):
sound c apparently, but they took the latrine technology as well.
So if you look at Roman latrines, they're pretty similar
to the earlier Greek ones, and they have rows of
bench seats with holes positioned above a sewer, no walls.
The Romans are also the ones that figured out like
aqueducts and stuff, right, So, like the Romans were definitely
(18:18):
leveling up the idea of moving water. I'm not one
hundred percent sure how quickly they got to the idea
of fleshing out waste, but they were able to move
water using gravity, right, like to transfer water long distances,
so they could have drinking water.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
And they had centralized plumbing when it introduced a guy
named Christoph Luti, a sanitation infrastructure planner at the Swiss
Federal Institute of Aquatic Science and Technology, he says the
Romans did have this one sophisticated innovation. It was their
centralized plumbing. So instead of having to do the chamber
pot hustle, which is what they called it, obviously, what
(18:58):
you would do is just fun funnel all this excreta
into the centralized sewer using that slow moving gravity powered water.
And then after that it it did go to a river.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Yeah, not great. That was you know, they made miss
missed the boat on that one. But then you know,
we'll get there. When the Roman Empire falls, it affected
a lot of things. They were in a very advanced
civilization and with that fall it kind of set back
some of these advances.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Right.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Oh yeah, man, the sophisticated toilet culture entered a bottleneck.
Innovation was once again clogged. It was back to chamber
pot hustles. That's why in pretty much any Western film
about this period of Europe, that's why inevitably when someone's
walking through the street, you'll see somebody from the second
(19:53):
floor throw out a bucket of piss and filth because
the sewer at that time was the middle of the street.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
It reminds me of that line from Monty Python The
Holy Grail where they're talking about like who the king
is and he's like, oh, he must be the king
because he's the only one who isn't covered in.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yes, which is not an unfair choke. Private and public
toilet's pretty scarce in the Middle Ages. And yes, it
is true that people who lived in castles would poop
and pee through these small niches basically in the castle
walls the privy right. Yeah, yes, they've been called privies.
(20:31):
But the big problem is they should have called these
the disease holes. Because launching poop and piss outside of
your castle, it lands in the moat. It creates epidemics
that were pretty frequent, cholera, typhoid, plague. And years went
on and the bathroom situation did not really improve. If
(20:55):
you were the average person at this day and age,
you just go outside and crap in a field because
that is fertilizer.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Well, I believe we've talked about the fact that Louis
the fourteenth like never showered. He just put on layers
and layers of like fine smelling oils and lotions, which
is really gross. It really reminds me of the story
that recently took place sort of Atlanta adjacent, No, it
was Atlanta, Jason, about an ill fated flight from Atlanta's
(21:26):
Heartfield Jackson International Airport too. I believe it was Spain.
I can't recall what the endestination was.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
I think it was. I think it was fine.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Where somebody did a diarrhea down the entire length of
the plane, and apparently one of the best quotes from
that was that, you know, whatever they tried to do
to put on it to make it smell less bad,
just made it smell like vanilla scented poop, because that's
what it would be.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
You know.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
I'm sure whatever Louis, bless his heart, put on just
just since you the foul odor in certain different flavored directions.
But yeah, I mean, he didn't really care about this stuff.
Clearly he was not a showering guy. He didn't attach
much you know, sanctity. He did not believe in cleanliness
(22:14):
is next to godly, which apparently is not really a
thing that exists in any holy scripture.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
He thought human rules didn't really apply to him because
he was, you know, appointed by God. He felt himself
somewhat godlike I.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
For one, have always you know, moved up, I guess
a little bit in society. But living with roommates in
a home that only has one bathroom, you know, with
maybe two other people not great, you know for showering
schedule and of course for pooping, because nobody wants anyone
to have to come in after they've done the thing,
and nobody wants to come in after someone's done the thing.
(22:48):
But in a castle Versailles, you know, the son king
absolutely did not care, did not give two shakes about
having multiple toilets.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
In fact, how many were there?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Ben, Oh, so glad you asked Casey, you'll like this
as well as our expert on France. There were two
thousand rooms in the castle of Versailles. There was one toilet.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Oh my god, that's insane.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
It's like fire festival level logistics, it is. But let's
pause here too, because let's get Casey's take on this. Casey,
how do the French regard Louis the fourteenth? Did they
talk about this poop stuff at all? Or are they
more concerned with like him being a bad leader.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Yeah, it's more the bad leadership thing. Yeah, I don't
think there's a whole lot about the toiletry that I've
seen pop up in like pop culture and that kind
of thing.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
All right, well, we're bringing it back. Also, speaking of
bringing things back, the entire reason they set you up
for that so that we could say, Casey on the
case d.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I wonder we can dig that sound que out of
the end of the archived.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yes, we will dig up the casey on the case
sound Q or maybe make a new one. Who knows,
So the sun King, you can steal back that order
of mind, right, yeah, yeah, we'll just tweet them. The
Sun King would host these huge festivals, these parties, his
equivalent of raves, and when that happened, the nobles just
(24:19):
like the peasants outside. This is pooped in the field.
This pooped on the ground like a horse. Super classy.
The flushing toilet did not really become a thing in
Europe until the last half of the eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Makes me think of a quote from I'm sorry I
keep doing this junior soprano on the soprano is one
of my favorite insults that he says.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
He goes, you hat, that's a good one. Yeah, I
don't know, it's a non sequity. I want to use that. Yeah,
you know, they were all isn't it funny? Though? I swear?
And the whole thing about Louis the fourteenth not bathing.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
He gets this reputation for me in this resplendent you know,
fashion clothes horse kind of cat right, But yeah, he's
stunk all the time. And there was only one toilet
in the whole Man mansion. This is more than a manchion.
If you guys have ever seen for size, literally Palace
of Wonder, it really doesn't kind of line up.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
But enter sir John Harrington, big deal.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
He pioneered in fifteen ninety six, one of the very
earliest examples of the flush toilet.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah, he did also want to point out in Louise's defense,
Louis was apparently had a huge phobia about bathing.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
He was tad.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
He thought it was bad for your health. Hydrophobe. Yeah,
it's a hydrophobe. And look this guy, Sir John Harrington,
also a poet, by the way, gold literacy. When he
invented the flush toilet, as you said, no nobody cared.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Oh, total whimper, not a bang at all. It wasn't for.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Two hundred years until people kind of caught into the
idea of man, wouldn't it be cool if we could
like just shoot this poop out somewhere else far away.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I picture some guy going on a journey, because most
people lived and died relatively close to where they were born.
I picture some guy going way out in the woods
and then coming back and saying, dudes, I found a
place that doesn't smell like maybe we could learn.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Something from that.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
So yeah, our buddy Alexander Cummings says, yeah, let's let's
try to make things smell a little less filthy. He
applies for a patent and he is the guy who
adds the double curved drain pipe you see on the bottom,
unlike the neck of your commode.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Somewhat of a bevel. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, it fights against stench because it can't get I mean,
it's not one hundred percent stench proof, but.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
It's nothing in this life.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Yeah, and this, of course is a design that we
still see. If you've ever had to get down and
scrub it, scrub the thing, you know, you've you've seen
that that that curved kind of receptacle in the bottom
of modern toilets. It's really not that different. So this
really did pave the way for what we know today
as the modern flushing toilet. You know, once you get
(27:10):
something once until we get into the whole Japanese future
of toilets, that's its own thing. But you know, it's
hard to get something much better than old John Harrington
got it. But as we know, Britain in the nineteenth
century had a real problem with sanitation, a real problem
with sanitation that stemmed from a real problem with overcrowding
(27:31):
in its cities. And we know that sometimes you know,
this is like aut of a twist type situation. One
hundred people might share a single toilet. That's insane, that's wild,
and it would of course cause backups and the sewage
would then spill out into the streets. The streets were
(27:52):
running with with with with poopoo and peepee.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
They very much were. This was an ideal situation because
the no no juices were mixing with all kinds of
other terrible stuff in the water, chemicals, horse manure, just
dead animals. Someone's pet dies and they're they're like throw
oscar in the river. And because of this there were
(28:20):
these huge, again continual public health crises colera outbreaks of
the eighteen thirties and eighteen fifties in particular, and so
as a result, trying to fight back against this, in
eighteen forty eight, the government decreed that every new house
built had to have a water closet, a toilet, or
an ash pit privy. And that's when we go to
(28:44):
the night soil men working on night poops the night
soil men had a terrible job. We talked about these
guys in the Great Stink of London.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Remember that's right they you know, they would muck out
these pits, They would muck out these whatever ashen privies,
right not, you know, one of the original dirty jobs.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
This was bad times. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
But of course, despite the best efforts of the night men,
the nightmen, this stuff did. It's insidious, you know, it
found its way into the water source or into the
water supply rather. And of course there were also other
chemicals that came from runoff from like coal ash and
things like that horse manure, rotting animal carcasses. The water
(29:38):
was just absolutely swimming with disease and to your point, Bend,
cholera outbreaks of the eighteen thirties and eighteen.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Fifties were the result of that.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
But in eighteen fifty eight there was a particularly nasty
summer which resulted in that Great stink. This idea of miasma,
remember that one ben the miasma theory, the idea that
we didn't really know where this was coming from, where
this disease was spreading. It wasn't right away that they
realized it was in the water at all. You think
that would have been a dead giveaway because the water
(30:10):
was like brown, I mean, it was bad. It wasn't
just like a hint of the stuff. So there was
a theory that it was spreading through the air, but
that was dead wrong.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Just I'm laughing because you've inspired me for a terrible
collode or perfume commercial for Louis the fourteenth, like Calvin
Klein style. It's a hint of poop.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yes, how about this? A hint of poop in the night?
Hint of poop.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Sorry, I'm thinking of an Harry Nilsen album.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
There's one myth we want to bust, and we know
we're being a little bit eurocentric heredity, you know in
I guess Middle Eastern when you get back to the
origins of mankind. But we're gonna get to a little
bit of banter about Japan and other parts of the
world towards the end. On the way, we're going to
pause to bust one quick myth. Folks, you may have
(31:09):
heard the story of Thomas Crapper. People will often say
he invented the modern toilet, because that's that sounds really cool.
Your last name is Crapper, you know, the invention is
named after you. The answer is a bit more nuanced
because old Tommy Craps didn't burst onto the plumbing scene
(31:29):
until the eighteen sixties, so there's been a lot of
research beforehand, like Cummings and Harrington and so on. But
he took out a lot of plumbing patents, more puanced, yes,
more puanced he took out. He took out something like
nine different ones between eighteen eighty one and eighteen ninety six.
(31:50):
But none of these were for a world changing toilet.
They were pipe improvements. And come to find out, thanks
to our palace at Life Science, the word crap probably
doesn't even come from his name, so we're now we're
redeeming his his reputation. He didn't do everything that people said,
(32:12):
but the stuff that he did do do is pretty important,
the pipe innovations.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
But where does word crap come from?
Speaker 4 (32:20):
Yeah, it's actually you know, I mean, it's it's a
weird one, right, because it certainly seems like it would
stem from this gentleman's name, which is an unfortunate thing
to be associated with, and it very well, may you know,
this is actually a little bit kind of up up
up in the air. I would argue, I think so
with historians, but it was actually potentially the word crap
(32:41):
was derived from a Latin word crappa, meaning chaff, which
I guess that's you know, the idea of separating the
wheat from the chaff. I think the chaff is like
the casing of the wheats, or the outer part, so
it's the part you throw away.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
So that does make sense, you know.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
But this guy Crapper's toilets did prominently feature on it,
So you know, the idea of maybe the term using
the crapper is separate from the term crap. I would
have to see some etymological evidence, you know, to the
contrary right to really track the providence of this word.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
And that's a good point because etymology can be some
tricky poop. He did manufacture these toilets, he just didn't
necessarily invent them. Other people got in the toilet game
during the Sanitation Revolution, George Jennings, Thomas Tweeford, Edward Johns,
Henry Dalton, and so on and so on. They began
(33:38):
producing the toilets that are increasingly similar to the toilets
we know today, and these contraptions start appearing throughout major
European cities. Thankfully, around the same time, people started creating
sewage treatment plants to help protect rivers and streams in
Europe from a flood of human dodo And sadly this
(34:02):
wasn't the case in some other parts of the world.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
So it really is kind of a mixed bag, you know.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
It's it's sort of a lot of cases of parallel thinking,
a lot of cases of folks laying the groundwork and
then other folks coming along and improving again. You know,
people pooped as long as there have been people or
any you know, animal for the right.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Oh my god, you're so right, Ben, We're so wrong.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Though, History will not forgive us for this episode, and
we aren't technically, uh in service of history.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
So I don't know, however, going to come back from this.
We're gonna do our damnness.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
But yeah, it's it's like, bunch, oh my god, stop me,
stop us all we're out of control. Yeah, but I mean,
like it makes sense, this would be an innovation that
has been a long time coming, you know, not not
to mention that the Romans kind of figured it out
and then got wiped off the map and all that
technology was sort of lost to history until you know, later,
right when it was sort of more unearthed this they
(34:56):
had to kind of restart the whole search for for
the toilet. So but again it's it's a very basic
function that a lot of people could have had the
same idea for, and then it just became this amalgam
of ideas and tweaks over time. And you know, you
wouldn't get to the idea of sewage treatment plants without
getting to the idea of a flush toilet, without getting
(35:19):
to the idea of the poop goes in the hole
and down into the pit.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
You know, it all kind of was staggered.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
And I think that makes sense to get to where
we are today, which is of course Japanese toilets.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Yes, yes, Japanese toilets, most particularly toto they have their
own different evolution, you know, traditional Japanese toilets. When you
go to that country and a lot of parts of Asia,
you'll see squat toilets right based on the floor or
a place where you you know, you assume like the Slavic.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Squatly better for your tract, right, yes.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
Which tracked track, Yeah, we're not talking about treatises here.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Depends but Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
The most I think impressive thing for a lot of
travelers from outside of that part of the world, in
Japan in particular, is the crazy sophisticated modern toilets that
you see in a lot of Japanese buildings. So there's
a dichotomy, right, Sometimes they will be the really fancy
ones that do all the things we already mentioned, and
then sometimes it'll be a ceramic hole in the ground,
(36:27):
you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
Have you guys ever happened upon something that's usually referred
to as a chemical toilet?
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (36:36):
Yeah, And of course a porta potty is essentially a
large scale chemical toilet, but you can get these little
ones that are like portable that you might have with
you in an RV or something, and it has whatever
that blue gook is that apparently just makes everything smell
like what do they call those things? Those bricks? This
kind of urinal cakes? Yeah, exactly Why do they have
(36:57):
to call them cakes? Well, I'll take speaking of do
they have to call it? There is a quite large
national they're they're they're found in California, Oregon, Utah, Washington, Texas, Colorado,
and Georgia. Porta potty company called Honey bucket. Why who
greenlit that? Is despicable.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
I wonder if it's a spin off of another company
that already had honey in the name honey buckets. It's
just that, No, I don't want even not applied to that.
Honey bucket is not a term that I enjoy.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
It's just unpleasant. It's incredibly unpleasant. It's it's foul. It
ruins the idea of honey for me.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
If someone if, like if I walked into a diner
and the server called me honey bucket, I would be
very uncomfortable.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Yeah, honey bunches, maybe pie bucket. That's a that's a
bridge too far.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
There's also a composting toilets. These are dry toilets, and
I gotta tell you, I hope the technology has improved,
because you guys know, I have some friends, hippie friends
who are off the grid and they're compost. Toilet does
not compost to the degree that I would have hoped,
and it's inside.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
Oh it's always a bit of a bait and switch
with those kinds of things. Back to the Romans, though,
you know, we talked about how they really were leading
the charge for this kind of stuff, and then you know,
because of their annihilation, everything kind of got set back.
They also, you know, we haven't talked about wiping much, right,
(38:27):
if at all. We did talk about how we did
an episode on bidays. I think we're all here in
this room pro baday, and the fact that other parts
of the world have really, you know, have always kind
of been pro baday and somehow the US has lagged
behind is very strange, and I would argue, we would
all argue. I think we even made the argument in
our episode. It's a product of big tpe.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
You know.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
Yes, a lot of money to be made in those sheets,
you know, those cylindrical sheets. But the Romans, well they
weren't quite at the level of bidets yet with their aqueducts.
They didn't quite figure out how to get a dispray
upward against gravity. They did have a pretty relatively sophisticated
(39:08):
wiping mechanism in the form of a sea sponge.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
On a stick. Ah, the tyssorium. Yes, wow, it also
sounds like a Mars volt.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
It sounds also like an obscure anatomical thing, all.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
Right, Yeah, like from the what's that book with all
the fake science stuff, the Codex serp codex serphin. It
sounds like some yeah, exactly, some alien organ of some stripe.
But yeah, but these were not uh, these were for
repeat use though, which does give me pause between multiple people. Oh,
(39:47):
you know, you know again, poop is pretty insidious, and
and and washing it away with water on a porous
thing piece of organic material, probably not going to get
it all.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
You're probably not going to get it all.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
And then passing the poopstick to the next guy while
you're talking about, you know, the olive oil trade or something.
It's just not a good look. And thank goodness, toilet
paper was mass produced in eighteen fifty seven.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
It is very imperfect.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
We have learned some troubling things about toilet paper on
the way, but it's still better than sharing a poopstick
with people.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
Yeah, it really gives a whole new meaning to the
insult poopstick.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Yes, which we thought was universal. It turns out that's
just something we've been saying.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Turns out it has a historical precedent.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
But you know, again, to the Romans credit, they had
a built in mechanism for rinsing the poopsticks right there
at their feet, in the form of a little flowing trough,
a little kind of lazy river of water. They would
just switch the thing around. I don't I don't buy it.
I'm a little skeptical of this mechanism here. I think
(40:58):
they probably were spreading some spreading some disease, some part
of it.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Yeah, but it was one of those things where they
couldn't see it. They didn't know as much about how
disease is spread. And this maybe gets us to our
final points here. It's fun to have, like the food humor,
we obviously love it. In casey, we hope we have
impressed you. Thank you for coming back. The big point
about this is that sanitation can save billions of lives,
(41:25):
and right now, nearly one half of the world's population
lacks access to proper toilets, proper sanitation, or both. This
is why the CDC says there's an estimated three point
six billion people without safely managed sanitation, and then of those,
one point nine billion only live with basic sanitation, which
(41:50):
means you'reus in outhouses, latrines, things that fill up or
worse overflow in heavy rain. This is particularly dangerous for women,
for young girls when they have to go outside at
night in poorly lit places. Just to use the restroom,
you know. And then the other thing. We don't think
about it too much because we live in a city. Snakes, insects,
(42:15):
predator tics, ticks, ticks as well, lie disease.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Yeah, insidious. But we have we talked about the Japanese
word shimogo.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
We have not talked about the Japanese words.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
This is fun.
Speaker 4 (42:26):
We have talked a bit about how the Japanese, you know,
are the modern innovators of like no one does nobody
does it better than the Japanese when it comes to toilets.
So many options and opportunities to live in the lap
of luxury. Uh, when it comes to Japanese toilets. But
in the olden times, in I believe Japan and China,
they did actually use human waste as fertilizer. Yeah, there's
(42:52):
a word for it, yeah, yea yeah, no, But there's
another word for it, shimogo, which loosely translates to from
the bottom of a person.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
And the reason flush toilets became a thing in Japan
at all is because eventually there was a law made
after World War Two that said you gotta stop using
night soil, even though it still happens in parts of
the Korean Peninsula, parts of China.
Speaker 4 (43:20):
It's funny though, too, Ben, weren't we talking about in
the Middle Ages the night soil men. So this is
a term that is not exclusively you know, from from
the East. This is very much a you know, European
term as well.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, it's definitely a it's a common thing, right, It's
a lot of people solving a universal problem and it
has been such a journey. So the next time you
pull that lever, folks, give a big thanks to the
inventors of the past, the nightmen that they were, and
remember to close the lid. And So, Noel, what do
(43:57):
you think are we Are we flush this episode? Are
we did we miss any more poop puns?
Speaker 2 (44:04):
We couldn't possibly have.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
We really leaned into it.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Oh yeah, we nope, not going.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
To where you're going.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Yeah, I'm just kiding.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
We all got it.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Let's let the imagination. I don't know if I got
it prooping down you know that. See, that's the thing.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
Poop is insidious, you know, both as a physical substance
and as a substance.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Of the mind.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yes, yeah, and with that we want to thank everybody
as always for tuning in to the first of a
couple reunion episodes. We're going to have Casey. Thank you
so much, man, it's so good to see you. We,
like the rest of the Ridiculous Historians, are just huge
fans of yours, and we can't wait to journey into
(44:52):
another strange story which will be less poop related, we promise,
uh later on this week.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Let's see who else.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Thanks also to white Pants Williams.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
That's what he goes by. Now did you hear about
this case? I have not heard this. How did it work?
He texted us. He's like, I got to get these
white pants.
Speaker 4 (45:10):
Yeah, we Labor Day half a suit. Okay, you know, uh,
it's it's in the back, it's in the past episodes.
But you know what, white pants don't take very well.
What's that poop in your pants? It's everyone knows.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
It's a gambit for sure, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
And also thanks to Alex Williams who composed this slap
and bop uh white pants Williams.
Speaker 4 (45:32):
Alex Williams, And it was apparently very all of these
people were all very continent.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Yes us, Yeah, I love that key and peel sketch
cottonenttal breakfast. It's just a genius. Yeah. Thanks also to
Jonathan Strickland, aka the quizt, who sends his regards. I
always I like that phrase, sends regards because you don't
know whether it's good or ominous.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
It can be very ominous. I think it's all in
the tone.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
It's a weird win in email when people say best
regards or regards or it's like.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
I don't know what to do with that?
Speaker 2 (46:04):
How do you feel about just best?
Speaker 3 (46:07):
I mean, I don't do it. It's okay, It's.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
It's a little formal.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
Yeah, I would say my best wishes to you and yours.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
Kind of a literary flourish, a little bit of a
flex publishing people.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Maybe immediate servant, your faithful servant.
Speaker 4 (46:25):
How about capital thanks? Exclamation mark, exclamation mark, exclamation mark?
You guys loving that one?
Speaker 2 (46:29):
That means you messed up.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
Somebody's really mad at you to say that.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
Yeah, I don't know. Lol, all good here.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
Yeah. I still think it's better than ending with a quotation.
When I see emails that end with a quotation, I'm like, yeah, dude,
I also like words worth, but we're talking about how
how to schedule an admin meeting.
Speaker 4 (46:51):
Well, how do you feel about quotations in a signature
file on an email?
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Not great, each their own. I mean it's like a
bumper sticker. Not great.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
But if it's in the body that's deranged, oh, I
would never Who would do that?
Speaker 4 (47:03):
Who's psychos are you dealing with, Ben that are ending
signing off emails with literary quotes? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Run away, dude.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
And we of course want to thank Christophrasiotis Eaves, Jeff
cot here in spirit, Gabe lose Yer, and thank you
to you, Noel, and and props to both of us.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Props all three of us for closing the lid. And
my best wishes in regards to you and your family
as well.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Benjamin, looking forward remember that one.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
We'll see you next time. Folks.
Speaker 4 (47:42):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much
for tuning in. Can we get some like prestigious, cinematic,
like Oppenheimer level music? Because I'm Ben your Noel Desih
we have come full circle. We have a very special
returning guest. Folks, clap, cheer, raised, rackous applause and awe
(00:53):
for our returning super producer, the one, the only mister
Casey Pegro.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Oh man.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
It's great to be back with you, guys. It's great
to be back talking to everybody.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
It's good to have you back, Casey. And what a
for poetous occasion.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I mean, I'm honored to be asked back. But at
the same time, the choice of topics here today, is
there some kind of secret message you're trying to send
me a great no? Oh, okay, we're sub tweeting you.
I think you're just adding me directly.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, and now we're just tasking you directly. Oh twitter
h So Casey, before we begin, of course, we picked
the classiest possible topic to explore with you today and
explore over this week. But before we begin, we've had
so many of our fellow ridiculous historians asking about you,
inquiring about your adventures. Even no, I don't know if
(01:49):
you saw it, but even a few people constructing conspiracy theories.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I love that love. I need to hear these theories.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah, we'll get to them, but first, just give us
the straight poop here. Let us know how it's been going.
What's up man? Life changes?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah, yeah, so big, big life changes. So to go
back to the long, long ago days of February twenty
twenty one, my wife Joelle and I welcomed our son, Tarik,
and his birth was a little chaotic, a little unexpected,
a little early, quite a bit early, two days shy
of six months, so not quite six months of gestation,
(02:26):
which obviously meant a long stay in the nick you
you know it was. It was a very uncertain time,
very stressful time. So and it happened, of course, right
in the middle of our production schedule, so like very
quickly we had to have other people come on and
start assisting, and super producer Max was a huge part
of that, but the whole team there just like pitched in.
(02:46):
It was incredibly heartwarming the way everybody just jumped in
action and made that happen on zero notice, Well, it
was so.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Crazy on your end that we didn't even fully know
what was going on, because I think there was just
like it was such an uncertain time that you know,
we weren't you weren't even really able to communicate with us.
So we were just kind of worried and had your back,
of course, But then we were so happy to hear
that everything ultimately turned out great and that you have
a beautiful son who is.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Now a giant.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Is a giant for his age, you know, and being premature.
He's he's he's breaking the curve so pretty regular, you
know what. He has like the perfect poop schedule because
in the regular German compliments, he's he's regular. It's in
the morning and it is after we drop him off
at daycare. I've changed like not that many poopy diapers
(03:35):
in the last you know, three to six months.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
It's amazing, don't cheeks yourself. That is so good to
have you back case. When as our pal a super producer,
Max Williams lit out for the territories on some adventures
of his own. Uh, he and Noel and I all
agreed and we're like, there's who who can fill in
for Max. Well, there's only one guy. And it was
(04:00):
like it was like all those scenes in eighties action
films where they're like we have to called in the
badger or something.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Remember that scene in the Tim Burton Batman. I think
it's Jack Palance plays like the big bad mob boss.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
He goes Jack.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
You can't remember him doing push ups on the oscars?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Oh Jack allis Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah, I think he Maybe he won for Best Supporting
Actor and I could be wrong about it, but for
whatever reason, he was on stage and he just got
up there and he started. He dropped, and he did
like ten or twenty, I don't know what, just to
prove that he still had Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
At least he definitely had it.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I feel like doing ten push ups is I don't
want to sound rude, but I feel like doing ten
push ups is not super.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah, but he was like seventy or something.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Okay kidding, I'll do one and be impressed. Okay, So
so uh.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
We had an episode a while back Casey about the
weird and somewhat disturbing history of soap, which may involve
ritual sacrifice, and this got us thinking about another bathroom
stand by the toilet. Where did it come from? You know,
we know you had a great idea. A few years
(05:16):
ago we did an episode all about bidets, and we
actually contacted a bidet company and sort of gave him
the hard cell. Casey, you were there. You remember this.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Golden the golden era of ridiculous history.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
So we started to cogitate and ask ourselves, what's the
straight poop? Where does the toilet actually come from?
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Because we also did an episode on underwear that was
a tie in with Fruit of the Loom.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
So if any toilet companies want to sponsor this episode
after the fact, we you know, we're here for it.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
We will shill.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
We will shill for your product.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Send Japanese toilets, Toto please, I'm going to say it.
I know not everybody wants to admit this because there's
a little bit of anism involved, but the nation of
Japan is pooping in the future. Those toilets are amazing.
Have you guys ever used like the fancy Japanese toilets?
Speaker 4 (06:10):
No, but there's a really good episode of Bob's Burgers
where Jeane falls in love essentially with a Japanese toilet
that talks and all of this good stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
It's pretty wild.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Yeah, there's things can get up there and cost you know,
even just like a sort of bargain basement model, like
a topper for your traditional commods. Those can run you
in the hundreds of dollars. But then if you want
one that's like fully flushed out, yeah, okay, those can
be thousands and thousands of dollars. And they yeah, they
do things like you know, rotating bedeys, like a little
(06:46):
whirlwind in your butt that can be heated.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
They have like customizable features so they know who is
sitting down in the home. Got these nice gentle burst
of air.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
I got it.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
It's one of the every time I've been to Japan,
I can't help it. The first and number one tourist
attraction for me as the airport toilet. I'm just consistently amazed.
And it took a long way to get there, because
people have been pooping way before they figured out how
to clean up their poop or how to safely transport
it away from their living quarters. We know that the humans'
(07:25):
closest relative, the chimpanzee, was already practicing some form of
restroom hygiene, and that tells us that other primates likely
did the same thing as they evolved into humans.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
It's pretty wild. Apes apparently, you know, know how to
keep themselves relatively feces free, despite their reputation. And you know,
they do play with it. Sometimes they'll throw it at you.
They'll they'll throw it at you, while we as humans
may not do that on a good day.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
On a bad day, you know, I'll bets are off.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
But apparently we are filthier in terms of our ability
to you know, track, collect and track poop particles. I
did not even think about this until I moved in
with my girlfriend and she was very insistent that I
closed the toilet lid before flushing.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I did. I did. I maybe I'm a disgusting man.
I'm a disgusting man or just a man, but I did.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Not realize this is a thing, especially in a small
bathroom where the sink is right next to the toilet.
If you flush it, it's like a poop bomb going on.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
It really is.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
You know, it's the particles you can't see. But bolt,
it's not gonna stop, y'all. It's not gonna stop. But
stick with us. It's worth it, we promise. So chimps
are good at like pooping off the side of their
sleeping areas and and doing it directly and not tracking
it in. But apparently, you know, since we often are
barefoot in the house or in the bathroom or whatever,
(08:48):
if you don't close the lid and you flush the toilet,
then you're getting it on the floor, then you're put
tracking it on your feet, then it ends up in
your bed. So apparently chimpanzees sleeping areas test much cleaner
than human beings sleeping areas. Scott forbid of hotels. Can
you even imagine, Well, we don't want to go there,
We've been there on our other show.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yes, yeah, check out the stuff hotels don't want you
to know.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
And it's up to you whether you want to bring
a UV light on your trip or not. But will
it will change the way the way you see things?
So yeah, no, I'm glad you mentioned this. This is
a study conducted by Adriana Hernandez Aguilar and Fiona Stewart,
and they found.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Exactly what you're describing.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Chimpanzees were much much cleaner and because of the closing
the lid thing, because a lot of us aren't stopping
the catapult when it settles on the floor, it can
go anywhere from there, you know what I mean. How
far away from your bathroom is your kitchen. That's another
huge issue, and we're not going to disparage them. Yes,
(09:54):
people have always tried to be clean, even in very
very dirty times, and people seem to have always he's
known that feces could be dangerous. If you go way
back to the time of the Sumerians, you'll see that
they had something like toilets thousands and thousands of years ago.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Yeah, three thousand, five hundred and three thousand BCE to
be precise, the Samarians in Mesopotamia, they built these ancient
versions of toilets, which were essentially deep pits that had tubes,
kind of ceramic tubing if you can picture maybe something
you might see in a garden or something along the
(10:31):
lines of like roofing shingles maybe, but like you know,
tubular and that's what they sat upon. And then they
were able to love the word excret excreta. Yeah, it
sounds like a prog rock band or like a Mars
Volta album.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
It sounds like what Maynard from Tool would call his
home poop.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
It probably does call it something like that. He probably
gives it a cute little pet name. That's an odd cat,
right there. A big fan of wine. He's a big
fan of wine winery guy. Yeah yeah, So this again,
according to the research, the solid excreta excreta would would
keep it in there. This the lining would keep it
in there, and the liquid would seep out through holes.
(11:13):
There was of course, you know, they hadn't quite figured
out moving running water yet, so there wasn't like a
way to flush fast. Forward a bit to the ancient
Babylonians and Assyrians, who also had toilets.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah, so what we've already established, toilets are older than
Jesus Christ. This is very ancient technology. The Assyrians did
something similar. They would take two small walls and they
would put the very close together with a narrow gap
for the feces to fall through, and then it went
directly into the canals. So you're just sort of pooping
(11:49):
in the water system. God be with you. People didn't
really evolve past that until the ancient Greeks and Romans
started bringing toilets to the masses. If you are looking
at the toilet timeline, you'll see the innovations were pretty
clogged until about one thousand years after the Sumerians.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Unfortunately, though, as is often the case, this is typically
for the well to do. I'm not going to even
say it, I already said it. Let it sink in
poorer members of society. Unfortunately, we're kind of just doing
the like solitary confinement treatment, you know, a bucket more
or less a barrel that was I think the larger
(12:36):
vessel that they would dump their chamber pots into. And
we of course know that this went on into you know,
the Middle.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Ages, you know, medieval times.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
The idea of a chamber pot is even something you
hear about in like you know, Dickens occasionally, I believe,
you know. And when we talked, we're gonna talk about
the Great Stink of London. I believe at some point
this is all very much tied together. As long is
there have been humans pooping, there have been humans trying
to figure out how to get as far away from
that stuff as possible.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
And who has to do the dirty job of cleaning
it at this point. In an ancient manu in civilization
over on the island of Crete, the people who had
private toilets in their homes were very much the elite.
They were the top one percent. It was like having
an indoor pool. In the cities. A lot of people
(13:27):
used publicly trains. These things were open for fifty to
sixty people at a time and they were just continually
flushing out the crap. This was a meeting spot for people. So, okay,
two things. One thing that always confuses me. We go
to so many hotels when we're on the road and
you've seen this. Two case, I'm sure the phone by
(13:50):
the toilet. Why why is there the phone by the toilet?
You know what I mean. The first time I saw
it was at our old office and Buckhead from Babyface Records, Right.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
I was thinking of that that was the status thing, right,
that was that was kind of a phone by they.
I mean, not like it's super expensive, but it's sort
of like I'm so important that I can't even take
five minutes away from main contactable because it's all pre
cell phone.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Did did you notice spend that when we were in
Vegas recently? Did your hotel room have a phone by
the toilet as well?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yes, which just seemed very very vegasy.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, I guess right.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
You need a like you.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
You have a you have a light bulb moment on
the toilet and you call downstairs and put two hundred
on you know, the the braves or something. Anyway, it
turns out this idea of discussing business matters on the
toilet dates back to Roman civilization, Greco Roman civilization, because
there would be this massive people like at a It
(14:53):
reminds me of those giant restrooms at stadiums. You guys,
remember where they used to have the troth, the trough.
I hated the but they've got this big thing. And
when you would go to the bathroom here in this
time in ancient Greece, you weren't going to just do
your business and leave people hung out. And they talked
(15:15):
about you know, work stuff. That feels like, I don't know,
I'm glad modern boundaries exist now.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I came up with a fun rhyme.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Yeah, the elite of crete sure didn't know how to
excrete perfect, and that's I apropos of nothing. At this
point we've moved on, but I couldn't let that one
languish on the vine.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I have to say this, this is reminding me of
this kind of an obscure reference. But There's an old
Louis Benwell film called The Phantom of Liberty, And there's
a sequence in that movie which is just a sequence
of dreams and weird things. But it's a kind of
a high society dinner, except the bathroom and the dinner
area are reversed, So everybody sits at the toilet together
(15:58):
in a group and poops.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
And.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Then and then they all they all get up to
leave and go off into these closed, tiny chambers and
eat their food.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Alone without anybody. I get.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
He just knew how to flip the script on on
polite society, did he didn't He also do the what
was it the unique charms of the speech, that's the
one with the iconic poster with like the giant pair
of lips with yes lady legs exactly image.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Do you guys are what's your policy on speaking in
the bathroom.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Like to others? Yeah? Or to myself?
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Well, I don't like it.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
I don't like it. It feels invasive.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
You mean, well, if if it's up to you, maybe
it's invasive to the other person too, because they're like, dude,
I don't want to talk to you while you're doing that,
or so it.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Just starts talking to you. You know, that's one thing
that I think Atlanta takes a little too far sometimes.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah, a public bath wait, no, why somebody else in
my personal bathroom?
Speaker 4 (16:58):
No, no, no, I just I just don't em as somebody
you maybe you cohabitate with, like shouting at you across
the house.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Okay, in the bathroom. Oh, you're right.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
This idea of the public latrine being like a meat market,
that sounds gross, but we.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
All know what we mean by that. Really. Yeah, it's
a little weird.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
That does seem you know, like yeah, but you know what,
it's also kind of like an old timey thing, the
idea of making conversation with someone at the urinals that that,
you know, old school folks maybe would do that, But
now these kids don't even make phone calls anymore. I
mean this, they would die, They would die. I enjoy
the boundary. I believe that good fences make good neighbors,
(17:35):
but the ancient Greeks sure did not. These public commodes
did have technological innovation, though. It's the first evidence of
water being actively used to carry away waste instead of
stuff just dumping into a river. And you know, the
Romans come along, They rip off all the Greek stuff
the way that we ripped off that law and order
(17:56):
sound c apparently, but they took the latrine technology as well.
So if you look at Roman latrines, they're pretty similar
to the earlier Greek ones, and they have rows of
bench seats with holes positioned above a sewer, no walls.
The Romans are also the ones that figured out like
aqueducts and stuff, right, So, like the Romans were definitely
(18:18):
leveling up the idea of moving water. I'm not one
hundred percent sure how quickly they got to the idea
of fleshing out waste, but they were able to move
water using gravity, right, like to transfer water long distances,
so they could have drinking water.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
And they had centralized plumbing when it introduced a guy
named Christoph Luti, a sanitation infrastructure planner at the Swiss
Federal Institute of Aquatic Science and Technology, he says the
Romans did have this one sophisticated innovation. It was their
centralized plumbing. So instead of having to do the chamber
pot hustle, which is what they called it, obviously, what
(18:58):
you would do is just fun funnel all this excreta
into the centralized sewer using that slow moving gravity powered water.
And then after that it it did go to a river.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Yeah, not great. That was you know, they made miss
missed the boat on that one. But then you know,
we'll get there. When the Roman Empire falls, it affected
a lot of things. They were in a very advanced
civilization and with that fall it kind of set back
some of these advances.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Right.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Oh yeah, man, the sophisticated toilet culture entered a bottleneck.
Innovation was once again clogged. It was back to chamber
pot hustles. That's why in pretty much any Western film
about this period of Europe, that's why inevitably when someone's
walking through the street, you'll see somebody from the second
(19:53):
floor throw out a bucket of piss and filth because
the sewer at that time was the middle of the street.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
It reminds me of that line from Monty Python The
Holy Grail where they're talking about like who the king
is and he's like, oh, he must be the king
because he's the only one who isn't covered in.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yes, which is not an unfair choke. Private and public
toilet's pretty scarce in the Middle Ages. And yes, it
is true that people who lived in castles would poop
and pee through these small niches basically in the castle
walls the privy right. Yeah, yes, they've been called privies.
(20:31):
But the big problem is they should have called these
the disease holes. Because launching poop and piss outside of
your castle, it lands in the moat. It creates epidemics
that were pretty frequent, cholera, typhoid, plague. And years went
on and the bathroom situation did not really improve. If
(20:55):
you were the average person at this day and age,
you just go outside and crap in a field because
that is fertilizer.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Well, I believe we've talked about the fact that Louis
the fourteenth like never showered. He just put on layers
and layers of like fine smelling oils and lotions, which
is really gross. It really reminds me of the story
that recently took place sort of Atlanta adjacent, No, it
was Atlanta, Jason, about an ill fated flight from Atlanta's
(21:26):
Heartfield Jackson International Airport too. I believe it was Spain.
I can't recall what the endestination was.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
I think it was. I think it was fine.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Where somebody did a diarrhea down the entire length of
the plane, and apparently one of the best quotes from
that was that, you know, whatever they tried to do
to put on it to make it smell less bad,
just made it smell like vanilla scented poop, because that's
what it would be.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
You know.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
I'm sure whatever Louis, bless his heart, put on just
just since you the foul odor in certain different flavored directions.
But yeah, I mean, he didn't really care about this stuff.
Clearly he was not a showering guy. He didn't attach
much you know, sanctity. He did not believe in cleanliness
(22:14):
is next to godly, which apparently is not really a
thing that exists in any holy scripture.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
He thought human rules didn't really apply to him because
he was, you know, appointed by God. He felt himself
somewhat godlike I.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
For one, have always you know, moved up, I guess
a little bit in society. But living with roommates in
a home that only has one bathroom, you know, with
maybe two other people not great, you know for showering
schedule and of course for pooping, because nobody wants anyone
to have to come in after they've done the thing,
and nobody wants to come in after someone's done the thing.
(22:48):
But in a castle Versailles, you know, the son king
absolutely did not care, did not give two shakes about
having multiple toilets.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
In fact, how many were there?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Ben, Oh, so glad you asked Casey, you'll like this
as well as our expert on France. There were two
thousand rooms in the castle of Versailles. There was one toilet.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Oh my god, that's insane.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
It's like fire festival level logistics, it is. But let's
pause here too, because let's get Casey's take on this. Casey,
how do the French regard Louis the fourteenth? Did they
talk about this poop stuff at all? Or are they
more concerned with like him being a bad leader.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Yeah, it's more the bad leadership thing. Yeah, I don't
think there's a whole lot about the toiletry that I've
seen pop up in like pop culture and that kind
of thing.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
All right, well, we're bringing it back. Also, speaking of
bringing things back, the entire reason they set you up
for that so that we could say, Casey on the
case d.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I wonder we can dig that sound que out of
the end of the archived.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yes, we will dig up the casey on the case
sound Q or maybe make a new one. Who knows,
So the sun King, you can steal back that order
of mind, right, yeah, yeah, we'll just tweet them. The
Sun King would host these huge festivals, these parties, his
equivalent of raves, and when that happened, the nobles just
(24:19):
like the peasants outside. This is pooped in the field.
This pooped on the ground like a horse. Super classy.
The flushing toilet did not really become a thing in
Europe until the last half of the eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Makes me think of a quote from I'm sorry I
keep doing this junior soprano on the soprano is one
of my favorite insults that he says.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
He goes, you hat, that's a good one. Yeah, I
don't know, it's a non sequity. I want to use that. Yeah,
you know, they were all isn't it funny? Though? I swear?
And the whole thing about Louis the fourteenth not bathing.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
He gets this reputation for me in this resplendent you know,
fashion clothes horse kind of cat right, But yeah, he's
stunk all the time. And there was only one toilet
in the whole Man mansion. This is more than a manchion.
If you guys have ever seen for size, literally Palace
of Wonder, it really doesn't kind of line up.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
But enter sir John Harrington, big deal.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
He pioneered in fifteen ninety six, one of the very
earliest examples of the flush toilet.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah, he did also want to point out in Louise's defense,
Louis was apparently had a huge phobia about bathing.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
He was tad.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
He thought it was bad for your health. Hydrophobe. Yeah,
it's a hydrophobe. And look this guy, Sir John Harrington,
also a poet, by the way, gold literacy. When he
invented the flush toilet, as you said, no nobody cared.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Oh, total whimper, not a bang at all. It wasn't for.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Two hundred years until people kind of caught into the
idea of man, wouldn't it be cool if we could
like just shoot this poop out somewhere else far away.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I picture some guy going on a journey, because most
people lived and died relatively close to where they were born.
I picture some guy going way out in the woods
and then coming back and saying, dudes, I found a
place that doesn't smell like maybe we could learn.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Something from that.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
So yeah, our buddy Alexander Cummings says, yeah, let's let's
try to make things smell a little less filthy. He
applies for a patent and he is the guy who
adds the double curved drain pipe you see on the bottom,
unlike the neck of your commode.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Somewhat of a bevel. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, it fights against stench because it can't get I mean,
it's not one hundred percent stench proof, but.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
It's nothing in this life.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Yeah, and this, of course is a design that we
still see. If you've ever had to get down and
scrub it, scrub the thing, you know, you've you've seen
that that that curved kind of receptacle in the bottom
of modern toilets. It's really not that different. So this
really did pave the way for what we know today
as the modern flushing toilet. You know, once you get
(27:10):
something once until we get into the whole Japanese future
of toilets, that's its own thing. But you know, it's
hard to get something much better than old John Harrington
got it. But as we know, Britain in the nineteenth
century had a real problem with sanitation, a real problem
with sanitation that stemmed from a real problem with overcrowding
(27:31):
in its cities. And we know that sometimes you know,
this is like aut of a twist type situation. One
hundred people might share a single toilet. That's insane, that's wild,
and it would of course cause backups and the sewage
would then spill out into the streets. The streets were
(27:52):
running with with with with poopoo and peepee.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
They very much were. This was an ideal situation because
the no no juices were mixing with all kinds of
other terrible stuff in the water, chemicals, horse manure, just
dead animals. Someone's pet dies and they're they're like throw
oscar in the river. And because of this there were
(28:20):
these huge, again continual public health crises colera outbreaks of
the eighteen thirties and eighteen fifties in particular, and so
as a result, trying to fight back against this, in
eighteen forty eight, the government decreed that every new house
built had to have a water closet, a toilet, or
an ash pit privy. And that's when we go to
(28:44):
the night soil men working on night poops the night
soil men had a terrible job. We talked about these
guys in the Great Stink of London.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Remember that's right they you know, they would muck out
these pits, They would muck out these whatever ashen privies,
right not, you know, one of the original dirty jobs.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
This was bad times. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
But of course, despite the best efforts of the night men,
the nightmen, this stuff did. It's insidious, you know, it
found its way into the water source or into the
water supply rather. And of course there were also other
chemicals that came from runoff from like coal ash and
things like that horse manure, rotting animal carcasses. The water
(29:38):
was just absolutely swimming with disease and to your point, Bend,
cholera outbreaks of the eighteen thirties and eighteen.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Fifties were the result of that.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
But in eighteen fifty eight there was a particularly nasty
summer which resulted in that Great stink. This idea of miasma,
remember that one ben the miasma theory, the idea that
we didn't really know where this was coming from, where
this disease was spreading. It wasn't right away that they
realized it was in the water at all. You think
that would have been a dead giveaway because the water
(30:10):
was like brown, I mean, it was bad. It wasn't
just like a hint of the stuff. So there was
a theory that it was spreading through the air, but
that was dead wrong.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Just I'm laughing because you've inspired me for a terrible
collode or perfume commercial for Louis the fourteenth, like Calvin
Klein style. It's a hint of poop.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yes, how about this? A hint of poop in the night?
Hint of poop.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Sorry, I'm thinking of an Harry Nilsen album.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
There's one myth we want to bust, and we know
we're being a little bit eurocentric heredity, you know in
I guess Middle Eastern when you get back to the
origins of mankind. But we're gonna get to a little
bit of banter about Japan and other parts of the
world towards the end. On the way, we're going to
pause to bust one quick myth. Folks, you may have
(31:09):
heard the story of Thomas Crapper. People will often say
he invented the modern toilet, because that's that sounds really cool.
Your last name is Crapper, you know, the invention is
named after you. The answer is a bit more nuanced
because old Tommy Craps didn't burst onto the plumbing scene
(31:29):
until the eighteen sixties, so there's been a lot of
research beforehand, like Cummings and Harrington and so on. But
he took out a lot of plumbing patents, more puanced, yes,
more puanced he took out. He took out something like
nine different ones between eighteen eighty one and eighteen ninety six.
(31:50):
But none of these were for a world changing toilet.
They were pipe improvements. And come to find out, thanks
to our palace at Life Science, the word crap probably
doesn't even come from his name, so we're now we're
redeeming his his reputation. He didn't do everything that people said,
(32:12):
but the stuff that he did do do is pretty important,
the pipe innovations.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
But where does word crap come from?
Speaker 4 (32:20):
Yeah, it's actually you know, I mean, it's it's a
weird one, right, because it certainly seems like it would
stem from this gentleman's name, which is an unfortunate thing
to be associated with, and it very well, may you know,
this is actually a little bit kind of up up
up in the air. I would argue, I think so
with historians, but it was actually potentially the word crap
(32:41):
was derived from a Latin word crappa, meaning chaff, which
I guess that's you know, the idea of separating the
wheat from the chaff. I think the chaff is like
the casing of the wheats, or the outer part, so
it's the part you throw away.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
So that does make sense, you know.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
But this guy Crapper's toilets did prominently feature on it,
So you know, the idea of maybe the term using
the crapper is separate from the term crap. I would
have to see some etymological evidence, you know, to the
contrary right to really track the providence of this word.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
And that's a good point because etymology can be some
tricky poop. He did manufacture these toilets, he just didn't
necessarily invent them. Other people got in the toilet game
during the Sanitation Revolution, George Jennings, Thomas Tweeford, Edward Johns,
Henry Dalton, and so on and so on. They began
(33:38):
producing the toilets that are increasingly similar to the toilets
we know today, and these contraptions start appearing throughout major
European cities. Thankfully, around the same time, people started creating
sewage treatment plants to help protect rivers and streams in
Europe from a flood of human dodo And sadly this
(34:02):
wasn't the case in some other parts of the world.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
So it really is kind of a mixed bag, you know.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
It's it's sort of a lot of cases of parallel thinking,
a lot of cases of folks laying the groundwork and
then other folks coming along and improving again. You know,
people pooped as long as there have been people or
any you know, animal for the right.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Oh my god, you're so right, Ben, We're so wrong.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Though, History will not forgive us for this episode, and
we aren't technically, uh in service of history.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
So I don't know, however, going to come back from this.
We're gonna do our damnness.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
But yeah, it's it's like, bunch, oh my god, stop me,
stop us all we're out of control. Yeah, but I mean,
like it makes sense, this would be an innovation that
has been a long time coming, you know, not not
to mention that the Romans kind of figured it out
and then got wiped off the map and all that
technology was sort of lost to history until you know, later,
right when it was sort of more unearthed this they
(34:56):
had to kind of restart the whole search for for
the toilet. So but again it's it's a very basic
function that a lot of people could have had the
same idea for, and then it just became this amalgam
of ideas and tweaks over time. And you know, you
wouldn't get to the idea of sewage treatment plants without
getting to the idea of a flush toilet, without getting
(35:19):
to the idea of the poop goes in the hole
and down into the pit.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
You know, it all kind of was staggered.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
And I think that makes sense to get to where
we are today, which is of course Japanese toilets.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Yes, yes, Japanese toilets, most particularly toto they have their
own different evolution, you know, traditional Japanese toilets. When you
go to that country and a lot of parts of Asia,
you'll see squat toilets right based on the floor or
a place where you you know, you assume like the Slavic.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Squatly better for your tract, right, yes.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
Which tracked track, Yeah, we're not talking about treatises here.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Depends but Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
The most I think impressive thing for a lot of
travelers from outside of that part of the world, in
Japan in particular, is the crazy sophisticated modern toilets that
you see in a lot of Japanese buildings. So there's
a dichotomy, right, Sometimes they will be the really fancy
ones that do all the things we already mentioned, and
then sometimes it'll be a ceramic hole in the ground,
(36:27):
you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
Have you guys ever happened upon something that's usually referred
to as a chemical toilet?
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (36:36):
Yeah, And of course a porta potty is essentially a
large scale chemical toilet, but you can get these little
ones that are like portable that you might have with
you in an RV or something, and it has whatever
that blue gook is that apparently just makes everything smell
like what do they call those things? Those bricks? This
kind of urinal cakes? Yeah, exactly Why do they have
(36:57):
to call them cakes? Well, I'll take speaking of do
they have to call it? There is a quite large
national they're they're they're found in California, Oregon, Utah, Washington, Texas, Colorado,
and Georgia. Porta potty company called Honey bucket. Why who
greenlit that? Is despicable.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
I wonder if it's a spin off of another company
that already had honey in the name honey buckets. It's
just that, No, I don't want even not applied to that.
Honey bucket is not a term that I enjoy.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
It's just unpleasant. It's incredibly unpleasant. It's it's foul. It
ruins the idea of honey for me.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
If someone if, like if I walked into a diner
and the server called me honey bucket, I would be
very uncomfortable.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Yeah, honey bunches, maybe pie bucket. That's a that's a
bridge too far.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
There's also a composting toilets. These are dry toilets, and
I gotta tell you, I hope the technology has improved,
because you guys know, I have some friends, hippie friends
who are off the grid and they're compost. Toilet does
not compost to the degree that I would have hoped,
and it's inside.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
Oh it's always a bit of a bait and switch
with those kinds of things. Back to the Romans, though,
you know, we talked about how they really were leading
the charge for this kind of stuff, and then you know,
because of their annihilation, everything kind of got set back.
They also, you know, we haven't talked about wiping much, right,
(38:27):
if at all. We did talk about how we did
an episode on bidays. I think we're all here in
this room pro baday, and the fact that other parts
of the world have really, you know, have always kind
of been pro baday and somehow the US has lagged
behind is very strange, and I would argue, we would
all argue. I think we even made the argument in
our episode. It's a product of big tpe.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
You know.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
Yes, a lot of money to be made in those sheets,
you know, those cylindrical sheets. But the Romans, well they
weren't quite at the level of bidets yet with their aqueducts.
They didn't quite figure out how to get a dispray
upward against gravity. They did have a pretty relatively sophisticated
(39:08):
wiping mechanism in the form of a sea sponge.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
On a stick. Ah, the tyssorium. Yes, wow, it also
sounds like a Mars volt.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
It sounds also like an obscure anatomical thing, all.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
Right, Yeah, like from the what's that book with all
the fake science stuff, the Codex serp codex serphin. It
sounds like some yeah, exactly, some alien organ of some stripe.
But yeah, but these were not uh, these were for
repeat use though, which does give me pause between multiple people. Oh,
(39:47):
you know, you know again, poop is pretty insidious, and
and and washing it away with water on a porous
thing piece of organic material, probably not going to get
it all.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
You're probably not going to get it all.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
And then passing the poopstick to the next guy while
you're talking about, you know, the olive oil trade or something.
It's just not a good look. And thank goodness, toilet
paper was mass produced in eighteen fifty seven.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
It is very imperfect.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
We have learned some troubling things about toilet paper on
the way, but it's still better than sharing a poopstick
with people.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
Yeah, it really gives a whole new meaning to the
insult poopstick.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Yes, which we thought was universal. It turns out that's
just something we've been saying.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Turns out it has a historical precedent.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
But you know, again, to the Romans credit, they had
a built in mechanism for rinsing the poopsticks right there
at their feet, in the form of a little flowing trough,
a little kind of lazy river of water. They would
just switch the thing around. I don't I don't buy it.
I'm a little skeptical of this mechanism here. I think
(40:58):
they probably were spreading some spreading some disease, some part
of it.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Yeah, but it was one of those things where they
couldn't see it. They didn't know as much about how
disease is spread. And this maybe gets us to our
final points here. It's fun to have, like the food humor,
we obviously love it. In casey, we hope we have
impressed you. Thank you for coming back. The big point
about this is that sanitation can save billions of lives,
(41:25):
and right now, nearly one half of the world's population
lacks access to proper toilets, proper sanitation, or both. This
is why the CDC says there's an estimated three point
six billion people without safely managed sanitation, and then of those,
one point nine billion only live with basic sanitation, which
(41:50):
means you'reus in outhouses, latrines, things that fill up or
worse overflow in heavy rain. This is particularly dangerous for women,
for young girls when they have to go outside at
night in poorly lit places. Just to use the restroom,
you know. And then the other thing. We don't think
about it too much because we live in a city. Snakes, insects,
(42:15):
predator tics, ticks, ticks as well, lie disease.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Yeah, insidious. But we have we talked about the Japanese
word shimogo.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
We have not talked about the Japanese words.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
This is fun.
Speaker 4 (42:26):
We have talked a bit about how the Japanese, you know,
are the modern innovators of like no one does nobody
does it better than the Japanese when it comes to toilets.
So many options and opportunities to live in the lap
of luxury. Uh, when it comes to Japanese toilets. But
in the olden times, in I believe Japan and China,
they did actually use human waste as fertilizer. Yeah, there's
(42:52):
a word for it, yeah, yea yeah, no, But there's
another word for it, shimogo, which loosely translates to from
the bottom of a person.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
And the reason flush toilets became a thing in Japan
at all is because eventually there was a law made
after World War Two that said you gotta stop using
night soil, even though it still happens in parts of
the Korean Peninsula, parts of China.
Speaker 4 (43:20):
It's funny though, too, Ben, weren't we talking about in
the Middle Ages the night soil men. So this is
a term that is not exclusively you know, from from
the East. This is very much a you know, European
term as well.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, it's definitely a it's a common thing, right, It's
a lot of people solving a universal problem and it
has been such a journey. So the next time you
pull that lever, folks, give a big thanks to the
inventors of the past, the nightmen that they were, and
remember to close the lid. And So, Noel, what do
(43:57):
you think are we Are we flush this episode? Are
we did we miss any more poop puns?
Speaker 2 (44:04):
We couldn't possibly have.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
We really leaned into it.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Oh yeah, we nope, not going.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
To where you're going.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Yeah, I'm just kiding.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
We all got it.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Let's let the imagination. I don't know if I got
it prooping down you know that. See, that's the thing.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
Poop is insidious, you know, both as a physical substance
and as a substance.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Of the mind.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yes, yeah, and with that we want to thank everybody
as always for tuning in to the first of a
couple reunion episodes. We're going to have Casey. Thank you
so much, man, it's so good to see you. We,
like the rest of the Ridiculous Historians, are just huge
fans of yours, and we can't wait to journey into
(44:52):
another strange story which will be less poop related, we promise,
uh later on this week.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Let's see who else.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Thanks also to white Pants Williams.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
That's what he goes by. Now did you hear about
this case? I have not heard this. How did it work?
He texted us. He's like, I got to get these
white pants.
Speaker 4 (45:10):
Yeah, we Labor Day half a suit. Okay, you know, uh,
it's it's in the back, it's in the past episodes.
But you know what, white pants don't take very well.
What's that poop in your pants? It's everyone knows.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
It's a gambit for sure, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
And also thanks to Alex Williams who composed this slap
and bop uh white pants Williams.
Speaker 4 (45:32):
Alex Williams, And it was apparently very all of these
people were all very continent.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Yes us, Yeah, I love that key and peel sketch
cottonenttal breakfast. It's just a genius. Yeah. Thanks also to
Jonathan Strickland, aka the quizt, who sends his regards. I
always I like that phrase, sends regards because you don't
know whether it's good or ominous.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
It can be very ominous. I think it's all in
the tone.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
It's a weird win in email when people say best
regards or regards or it's like.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
I don't know what to do with that?
Speaker 2 (46:04):
How do you feel about just best?
Speaker 3 (46:07):
I mean, I don't do it. It's okay, It's.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
It's a little formal.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
Yeah, I would say my best wishes to you and yours.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
Kind of a literary flourish, a little bit of a
flex publishing people.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Maybe immediate servant, your faithful servant.
Speaker 4 (46:25):
How about capital thanks? Exclamation mark, exclamation mark, exclamation mark?
You guys loving that one?
Speaker 2 (46:29):
That means you messed up.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
Somebody's really mad at you to say that.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
Yeah, I don't know. Lol, all good here.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
Yeah. I still think it's better than ending with a quotation.
When I see emails that end with a quotation, I'm like, yeah, dude,
I also like words worth, but we're talking about how
how to schedule an admin meeting.
Speaker 4 (46:51):
Well, how do you feel about quotations in a signature
file on an email?
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Not great, each their own. I mean it's like a
bumper sticker. Not great.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
But if it's in the body that's deranged, oh, I
would never Who would do that?
Speaker 4 (47:03):
Who's psychos are you dealing with, Ben that are ending
signing off emails with literary quotes? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Run away, dude.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
And we of course want to thank Christophrasiotis Eaves, Jeff
cot here in spirit, Gabe lose Yer, and thank you
to you, Noel, and and props to both of us.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Props all three of us for closing the lid. And
my best wishes in regards to you and your family
as well.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Benjamin, looking forward remember that one.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
We'll see you next time. Folks.
Speaker 4 (47:42):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
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Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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