October 22, 2019 • 41 mins
Flying in an airplane is an enormous privilege, but nowadays it's often seen as an inconvenience more than anything else -- the crowding, the lines, the security check and so on can certainly take the magic out of a journey. Yet this wasn't always the case -- in decades past, air travel was the last word in mobile luxury. So what changed? Tune in to learn more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
(00:27):
to the show, Ridiculous Historians. We always say thank you
for tuning in, but in this case especially, thank you
very very much. Uh and and thank you Noel for
being here too. I'm worries been Um, you're a little
farther across the table than I'm used to. I kind
of want to. I want to reach out and touch you,
but you're just gonna be on my grasp reach out
(00:48):
and touch Ben. Ben. I got a question why, More
so now than ever, I don't understand what's the occasion? Right,
this is not a reference to Fox News, and in
no way is this an endorsement of that network. You
and I know are here in recording for the first
time in sunny l A. We are in the way
cooler Los Angeles studios, in our Atlanta digs man. They're
(01:11):
pretty cool too. They're you know what, maybe I am
accidentally negging because this this is all shiny new car smell.
For me, it feels dare I say luxurious. We even
have a shiny new car smell super producer that comes
with the package. That's right, That's right, Our superproducer, Casey
Pegrom as always is here in spirit while he's holding
(01:31):
down Atlanta HQ. We are immensely privileged to be joined
with our l A super producer, Daniel Goodman. How's it going, Daniel?
It's going excellently. Thrilled to be here with you both
and we feel the same good Sarah. Is he get
his own sound effects since he spoke on the mic? Uh? Yeah,
(01:52):
I think so. Can it be like a red hot
Chili peppers whammy guitar kind of dive only just because
that's the most cliche californ anything I can think of it? Yeah?
Are you okay with that? I would be honored truly.
This guy's energy right, it does have a good vibe. Um.
Speaking of vibes, how do you feel about luxury? I
we were talking about this. It's funny because you and
(02:13):
I often when we're when we're hanging out, before we
start rolling, we end up just shooting the breeze, and
then part way through we say, you know what, we
should have been recording this. So this is the conversation
that we're having earlier. I don't know about you, know,
but I have always had a strange relationship with the
(02:35):
concept of luxury because luxury itself is so relative and comparative, right,
Like in in places where people are starving, being able
to eat is a luxury. In places where people are
very well to do, small things like a bag of
cash shoes might be this luxury. Right. How do you
feel about like fine linens and cushions and you know,
(02:57):
massages and oils otions. I appreciate it. Don't know why
I'm going down this road. I appreciate all of them,
except for massages. You know how I am about strangers
touching me? But what about you? Man? How about jewels
and gold and fine specifically picking stuff that terrified with
your with your hands? But yeah, what about you? I
(03:18):
don't know, man, I'm I'm I'm. I'm fine with the
opulent life, even though I don't live it, but I
like looking at other people that live it. Well, we're
getting there, and I don't want to put you on
the spot. But you know, longtime listeners, you will recall that, uh,
my ride or die nol here has a has a
past in the opera houses of great renown. You know
(03:39):
you moved in some rarefied air. Well. They let me
sit in the corner and sniff the rarefied air in
a rarefied corner. Yeah, I, um, I've had recently, I've
had some weird luxury experiences on airlines. You know, we've
talked about this on the show before. You and I
(04:00):
have been traveling a lot. Luckily, I think we both
enjoy the experience of traveling. I don't know about you. Uh,
I'm not trying to sound one percent here or anything,
but I tend to sleep better in moving vehicles than
I sleep anywhere else I've ever heard in my life.
Is it definitely not? But I understand where you're coming from.
(04:21):
And Ben, I mean, speaking of luxury, you have been
taking a lot of international flights lately, um, and you
tend to occupy these more kind of luxury sleeper type
cabins because of because of your You've got some connects,
right Yeah. Yeah, So I have ended up being a
(04:42):
plus one kind of trophy for my girlfriend and as
a result, because she works with an airline, as a result,
we end up looking out into these, uh, these cabins
that I believe I have no business being and I
have no business and this class. No, So you're like
arm candy for her, is what you're saying. I alright,
(05:03):
she has trots you out terrible taste, and dude, it's
luckily for me. But I've also noticed that in these
these cabins, the foods a little nicer, you get, you know,
it's not like just the crave box with your cheese
that's in your your yogurt or whatever it is, or
your hummus. It's more like a filet and like some vegetables.
And there's even a hashtag your gir girlfriend follows called
(05:25):
like flight food or something like that. It's a thing. Yeah, yeah,
it's the thing. There's this entire community online that just
post pictures of different food they eat on airlines, very specific.
It's yeah, I love you know, I think we both
love very specific communities. And this is this is a
crazy when the blogs alone are fantastic. You can you
(05:48):
can search any airline past or present, and you won't
learn much about the aircraft, but you will learn what
what kind of stuff they serve and the business class stuff.
What was it? Time is so funny? Times such a
flat circle. It was a few weeks ago. I want
to say it was a week ago or just just two.
When you and I and are a good pal Matt
(06:10):
We're sitting down with John Hodgeman and he was telling
us about his surreal experience being a a medallion status.
He's he's a chaser. He's a medallion chaser. That's right.
He was chasing that diamond medallion status, which is very ephemeral.
As it turns out. I thought, once you had it,
you had it for life. But you gotta keep like
you know that XP wears off very quickly. And uh,
(06:32):
you know, I I've felt for you because I I
was looking up to you as you're you're close right,
I'm approaching silver and I was told by Mr Hodgeman
and no uncertain terms, I that is a trash medallion.
It's it's a non medallion. Yeah, you can listen to
that episode of stuff they don't want you to know.
And John at some point just stops responding to Noel,
(06:56):
and whenever Noel mentions it, he just sort of screams.
I had questions. I was trying to understand how the
points work, and there's different milestones that you reach that
that give you the next boost to the next level
level up. I guess he would not engage with me
because I was far, far too much beneath him. Um,
but we're not talking about medallions today. Where we started
talking about luxury and then we got derailed a little bit,
(07:16):
which I love. Um. Do you remember have you ever
seen or heard any stories about led Zeppelin's luxury plane,
private plane called the Starship. I have heard of the Starship. Yeah.
So it had like a full lounge with an electric
organ and like at the time it was a cutting
edge like video system where they could play films and
(07:37):
it was absolutely the height of decadence and dare we
say luxury. And there was a time this is a
Boeing seven oh seven after a two hundred thousand dollar renovation,
the plane would have been leased. They didn't even own
it for dollars per flight and it was just like,
(07:57):
you know, absolute represent inunted that led Zeppelin decadence with
you know, coke fueled parties with Elton John and Eric
Smith and all that stuff. We're not talking about that
exactly today, but there was a time where that level
of at least aesthetic loungeness could have possibly been available
to uh folks like me or you. Yeah, it could
(08:18):
have become the norm. You know, today a lot of
people who travel by air have have a core common
understanding of the different problems, you know, like security stinks,
I hate waiting in line, no one wants a middle seat,
and flying it can be such a hassle in the
modern day. But back in the glory days of regulated
(08:42):
air travel, we saw things like that led Zeppelin play right.
We saw things like, uh, for anybody who's a fan
of Austin Powers, you'll you'll notice they have this stuff
about luxury airlines there and as part of his yeah
baby status. That is because is of something called the
Civil Aeronautics Board. Before nineteen seventy eight, the Civil Aeronautics
(09:07):
Board controlled prices and roots for all all of the
planes in the US, and that meant that carriers couldn't
really compete like you're just for example, your your Frontier,
your Spirit or your Delta or your Alaskan Airlines or whatever.
They couldn't mess with each other too much on prices,
(09:28):
nor could they have a lot of agency with roots.
So the only way they could compete to get more
customers was based on how they served their customers, you
know what I mean. And that meant they started installing
some of that stuff you described, which we could describe
a little bit more. Uh, like the remember the Tiger Lounge.
(09:48):
I don't remember it personally because it's never lucky enough
to to travel. We were born then on the and
the Tiger Lounge, but yeah, it's true. So in nineteen
seventy the first Boeing seven forty seven jet was introduced,
and it uh in order to kind of take advantage
of the massive amount of space that a big jet
like that had. Um and again at the time where
(10:11):
the idea of competing for customers attention and and dollar
was a big deal between the airlines, so uh, they
there was this thing called the Tiger Lounge, which was
kind of in the guts of the Boeing seven seven.
This was only a prototype, and it had things like
I had really bespoke glass top bar and like tiger
(10:31):
print black leather seats, and there was even a glass
bottom boat type situation that allowed you to look down
into the you know, the abyss, which after some drinks,
I don't know if that would have been a good idea.
That would have kind of freaked me out and made
me question my mortality a little too much. A window
on the side I can handle, but straight down I
(10:51):
don't know. About that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Also, for anyone
who hasn't seen the Los Angeles studio, Dan only gotta
tell you it freaks me out to know that there's
a glass bottom on the second floor. You saw that, right,
Oh yeah, that's weird. It is weird. I don't want
to have meetings in there. I don't. I don't look
up and there people peering down ato you. It's very disconcerting.
(11:13):
I don't know why I've found a new weird neuroses.
I don't want people to see the top of my
head during meetings. You've been I've been looking it at
that time. But you're right. Well, you're right because the
Tiger Lounge sort of echoes the the aesthetic of very
fancy luxury cruise liners, you know. And because the Civil
(11:35):
Aeronautics Board is no more, you're much less likely to
see things like piano bars, which used to be in
both first class and coach. You're less likely to see
a Parisian chef preparing meals, and you're less likely to
see these like fashion plate uniforms for flight attendants. You're
(11:56):
less likely to see a lot of stuff, and that's
because in night the reason that you and I and
Danill missed. This glorified era of fancy airline travel is
because in Congress enacted something called the Airline Deregulation Act.
This is the reason we went from things like Tiger
(12:19):
Lounges to Spirit and no ding on Spirit. Spirit is
a budget airline that will get you where you need
to go. The idea here was ostensibly that the act
of deregulating the airline market would allow the average Jane
and John Doe or Smith or whatever you know, anonymous
name you want to use, to have access to this
(12:42):
mode of travel, which was so much faster than a
car or than a train at the time, and they
would have never been able to afford it otherwise. The
reasoning went, and this opened up a new plane field
because you know, as we said at the top airlines
in the US originally could not compete on price, and
(13:04):
they couldn't really compete on routes, so they had to
compete on customer service. But now that they could compete
on the basis of price, they could really talk turkey
and they could undercut their competitors and stuff all the
customer service bells and whistles right that that all fell
to the wayside, it didn't need it wasn't part of
the model anymore, right, But why Ben, I'm still a
(13:27):
little bit confused, Like was it because they're the competition
had gotten to stiff and there were like empty flights
or something like that. Like I'm a little confused as
to how deregulating would cause this change. Yeah, Yeah, And
and what the move, what the drive to deregulation would
(13:47):
have been, right, because again, ostensibly, you know, emphasize that word,
please hear that in italics. Ostensibly this is meant to
bring air travel to the people. However, there was something
that occurred called the air mail scandal, and this occurred
way back in the nineteen thirties. This was a congressional
(14:11):
investigation on um on corruption, on nepotistic awarding of contracts
to certain airlines to carry mail. Yeah, and because of that,
people were much more in favor of government regulation originally,
and now more and more in these are modern days,
(14:31):
we'll hear people arguing against regulation, often often with some
sort of ulterior motive. But what happened with regulation the
airline industry is that it began to have the opposite
effect to what Congress originally wanted. It to do because
(14:54):
they wanted to regulate flights to make sure that airfare
was in their fairly priced and that planes would not
be in a situation where there would be empty flights.
Like even now, even today, in a deregulated environment, the
three of us could buy plane tickets and someone may
have sold us more tickets than there were seats on
(15:16):
the plane. Yeah, I mean, it's absolutely a rarity to
ever be on a flight where there's even one empty seat. Yeah,
I don't know that I've been on it. I mean
I had a middle free middle seat on this last
flight that I took, and that was just like a
dream come true. You know, I could stretch my one
leg out to the side, I could use that middle
trade table as an additional table that I had to
(15:36):
get into an agreement with my other seat. May It
was like, hey, man, is this cool. I'll have this side,
you can have that side. You know. It was great.
But that's that's very unusual. Now I get it now, Ben,
I guess the the the the issue for me was
the disfluency of like, you know, regulation good, deregulation bad.
But it was that regulation that was causing the airlines
to prosper right, but it maybe was keeping fair higher
(16:00):
and there wasn't enough competition um and so it wasn't
necessarily good for the consumers. And then I believe that
it get to a point where the Civil Aeronautics Board
was seen as having kind of um run its course
at this point in time, late nineteen seventies. What they're
(16:21):
seeing is that they're regulated airlines, and those are the
legacy airlines, and then there are these upstarts where I
should say, start up airlines that are unregulated. So Congress
compares the basic fare of a ticket and they say,
let's look at what it costs someone to fly on
a regulated airline and what it costs to fly on
an unregulated airline. And then they said, oh wow, click
(16:46):
lightbulb moment. Unregulated airlines charge way less money per ticket,
and we should help people get some savings, and therefore
we're helping more people to fly, which in the long
term arguably helps this industry. There's a guy from Cornell University,
Alfred E. Kahn k A h N, and he was
(17:09):
he was according to a great article on air and
Space dot s I dot e du, he was one
of the first academics to look at the airline industry
simply and solely as a business. And he said, if
we break up this regulated structure that we have, we
will create new space for new airlines, will increase competition
(17:33):
therefore will lower these fares. And Carter actually appointed him
as the chair of the Civil Aeronautics Board to lead
the charge into this new era of deregulation. And at
the time, um the major airlines were against it, which
is interesting, right, You would think they'd be like more money,
(17:54):
more money, or like, you know, less fewer rules, more money,
we can do whatever we want. But again, that's that's
the thing you kind of have to wrap your head around.
This idea of regulation was more or less in the
best interest of the airlines rather than the consumer. And
this it's it's just kind of it's a little tricky
for me. Even like when you uh, deregulate something, you
think that means it's a free for all now, but
it didn't quite mean that in the situation at all, right, yeah, exactly.
(18:18):
And so when Congress pushed this through and and Carter
signed the Deregulation Act, which was specifically October, so the
anniversary is coming up if you're looking for something strangely
specific to celebrate. When they signed this Deregulation Act, they
fundamentally changed the airline industry and we're still feeling the
(18:42):
effects of this today. The Deregulation Act eventually dissolved that
Civil Aeronautics Board, which again ALFREDY. Khan had run for
a time, and now US airlines were no longer regulated
the way that a public utility is regulated, and this
led to the death of some iconic famous airlines. Without
(19:06):
this regulation, outfits like PanAm or Eastern Airlines couldn't compete
because there were new, younger airlines that were coming in.
They were coming in hot, you know what I mean. Yeah,
But pan M two is like the quintessential luxury type
you know, iconic sixties seventies airline that you think of,
like with these kinds of lounges in these piano bars
(19:28):
and the very very stylish flight attendants and all of that,
and like the kind of cocktail our culture. Like I think,
wasn't there a TV show about PanAm? I mean, PanAm
shows up in a ton of films, for sure, Yeah,
and it was in Catch Me if you can, for sure.
But I feel like there was actually a series sort
of recently about the history of Panama. It was like,
you know, about that whole kind of universe. You're right, Nola.
(19:51):
A quick a quick look online tells me that not
only was there a TV series about PanAm, it is
called pan Birst of Creativity, Burst of Creativity. I love,
I love to attribute that. Yeah, the the deregulation knocks down,
knocks down these formerly herculean legacy carriers and introduces a
(20:15):
new species of airline, the low cost carrier or LCC.
So essentially it just lowered the barrier to entry into
the field. Right, Yeah, So what maybe once was not
a monopoly necessarily, but at the very least a very
tight knit group of competitors that more or less weren't
after each other. There was enough, you know, money to
(20:37):
go around. Now the field is kind of flooded with
all of these young, whipper snapper airlines, and nobody really
cares about the luxury stuff anymore because they have more
access to cheap tickets and travel that a certain segment
of the economy would not have had before. It was
much more exclusive. Even if there was a coach kind
of piano bar situation, it still would have been way
(20:57):
out of reach for most you know, lower to middle
class Americans, and a lot of people prior to the
seventies were traveling. This may surprise some of our younger listeners.
That certainly surprised me. A lot of people prior to
the seventies. Instead of traveling in luxury airlines, they were
(21:18):
traveling in luxury buses and coaches. There's a great museum
in Hershey, Pennsylvania where you can see uh, tons of
literally tons of these buses that have you know, uniformed attendance.
They have a beverage cart and food service. So we're
still in a situation where people have expected this, and
(21:41):
now with deregulation, someone's able to say, well, I may
not get you know, I may not get my fine wine,
and I may not get I don't know, I'm making
stuff up my my foot massage cushions and linens and
oils and lotions. Yeah, yeah, I may not get all
of these things. Uh, and I may be eating a
microwave meal or just some peanuts. Microwave was considered very
(22:05):
very forward, very futuristic at the time. I mean that
was earlier than that. But remember when the microwave was
like it's called you know, microwave cooking was like the
wave of the future, and they'll be like microwave cookbooks.
I think that was probably more in the fifties. Yeah, yeah,
I think right. Maybe they were more on a toaster
oven vibe, but they are. Point is that people would say, Okay,
I may not get all this stuff, but I can
(22:26):
travel faster than I ever have before, and I can
finally afford it. And this means that now what people
expect when they buy a ticket has changed, and there
are some success stories like today Southwest Airlines is the
largest domestic carrier in terms of like how many butts
(22:46):
they put in seats and then in the air and
then down on the ground. Can I throw a little
shade real quick? Yeah? Please, I really shade. I just
you know, we're lucky. We travel a lot for work,
and so we're able to book whatever airline is most convenient,
and so I tend to book Delta, and I flung
exclusively on Delta for quite a while and then ran
into a situation where I was coming out here to
l A and the Delta flight was just exorbitantly more
(23:08):
expensive because wayed too long to book. So I did
my first Southwest flight, and I was shocked, Ben, at
the lack of luxury. You were shocked. There wasn't even
a USB charger, There were no there were no seatback screens. Dude.
Was their WiFi barely? It was like one g? It
was like a half a g. How long was the
(23:30):
flight long? Do you feel like now you're you're you're
a Delta boy through and through? I mean, I think
I have to be. But here's what happened, Ben, I
had I I assumed, surely there's a way to charge
my device, so I wasn't paying any attention. I was
just using it willy nilly, you know, in the terminal,
taking videos, snap chatting, you know, crushing candies. And then
I get on the plane and I'm like, excuse me,
(23:52):
excuse me, Matt, miss uh where where where's the outlet?
And she just looked at me with disdain and rolled
her eyes and scoffed at me, and and and and
and walked away. And and I had to I had
to I had to think. I had I was, I was.
I had to be with my own thoughts. You hate that, terrifying, dude,
It was terrifying. I would occasionally like turn the phone
(24:13):
back on even though I had three percent battery left,
and I'm like, I'm gonna ration myself out five seconds
of screen time at a time. Well, I'm glad, I'm
glad you made it, you know. And that's that's an
interesting anecdote because it goes into what we're what we're
saying here, which is it's less a man. Luxury again
is relative, right, it's comparative. Luxury is based on expectation, right.
(24:38):
And for you, if had you gone into that situation
knowing what the score would be, it would have been
a little less um surprising, right, Yes, And we're at
the point especially if you travel, Uh, if you become
accustomed to the same thing, and I'm not saying like
fancy tiger skin piano bars, but if you're accustomed to
(25:00):
something like a USB charger, then it doesn't feel like
a luxury. Well, it goes back to what you said
at the beginning of the show bad. The idea of
luxury in and of itself is subjective, right, Like you know,
a USB charger on a plane compared to no USB
charger on a plane, to me, is luxury, or at
least at the very least based on my expectation, and
the ability to fly at all for many people is
(25:23):
a luxury. The to me, the ability to fly is
definitely a luxury because you know, I have this bad
habit where I always start rationing out hours and thinking
in terms of what I could have done, how long
something would have taken. So if I'm on a four
hour flight and I'm thinking, well, how long would it
take for me to drive? Right? And then how long
(25:47):
would it take for me to walk? And you know,
or ride a horse or something, which I'm still not
solid on the numbers there. I haven't haven't done my
horse research yet, but but we think about it, and
it is this enormous luxury. And now that we are
in this era of deregulation, and now that we also
(26:07):
have people uh in institutions advocating for fewer plane flights
due to environmental concerns, we have to ask ourselves is
this a sustainable thing? Because when when the deregulation occurs,
a bunch of new airlines come up and then a
bunch of them die, they go to put uh, they're
(26:27):
stocks crash. Remember Trump airlines? I do, and not personally,
but I remember reading about it. That was the thing
that lasted about five minutes. Yeah, yeah, up there with
Trump Casinos, Trump Steaks. I think Virgin is still a
thing that did Virgin die and that was one of
that was one of the new entries into the field
of recent years, and I think it's still around. Yeah,
Virgins going alive and kicking. We got the thumbs up
(26:49):
from down huge, huge fan of Virgin Airlines. I mean,
I think there's neat things about Virgin Airlines. I think,
isn't there something cool about it? What? What? What? What's
the gimmick for Virgin Airlines dandald you know, uh, you know,
fancy purple lighting on the inside. See you there you go.
That constitutes luxury, Yeah, exactly, luxury on on a budget. Um.
But no, it's absolutely true. And then you have like
(27:10):
you know, again, Delta is probably considered more of a
premium airline because the ticket prices are always a good yeah,
and again for good reason, not good reason really because
again if you go you compare to the way it
was in the sixties and seventies where you had like
you said, you know, infinity pools and you know, glass
(27:31):
tabletops and belly dancers and then all of a sudden,
there's just uh there, there's the first robot ever. Graham
of Cocaine came with your tickets, right, that was that
was that was part of the course. And it, you know,
obviously pales in comparison. But then you compare having a
little bit more leg room that that that constitutes luxury
(27:52):
at this point, you know, I mean, you think about
howmuch people pay for a first class ticket. All you're
getting is a slightly wider seat and the ability to
stretch your legs out a little bit, and a trade table,
better snacks and maybe a compliment. You get served first,
and you get to get on the plane first. Because
travel has become such a nightmarish hellscape in terms of
just getting to the airport, how congested it is now.
(28:14):
We've got all the security regulation and taking off your
shoes every time I go through through security. I've kind
of trained my mind not to look at it to
such an affront anymore. I just sort of turn off
my brain until I get on the other side. But
it's stressful, Yeah, it's stressful. That's why I I always
end up getting to a gate all right if I
(28:36):
feel like I'm gonna be on time. I assume that
means I'm going to be late, you know what I mean.
And part of it is because the Deregulation Act worked,
airports are much more crowded, people can go places. We
also live in an increasingly globalized society, so we are
much more likely to know someone in in a distant
physical location. What are some other positives that came as
(28:59):
a result of of deregulation ben Ah, Yes, yes, yes, uh.
The hub and spoke system is one of the big ones.
So one of the reasons that people in the US
and in our part of the U s in Atlanta,
Georgia end up traveling Delta a lot is because Delta
is I wouldn't say a monopoly, but it's very much entrenched,
(29:20):
and Delta has their headquarters and their big hub in Atlanta. You'll, yeah,
you'll hear people say I like flying Delta. The thing is,
no matter where I'm going, I have to stop in
Atlanta first. It's a weird thing, but the the hub
and spoke system is essentially this. Some airports are used
as a connecting point for passengers coming from different places
(29:43):
and going to different destinations. Pretty much every airline except
for maybe like a person's private G six or something.
They use this system and to this day, I mean
we talked about at the top of the show, Southwest
is still the hub for Southwest is in Dallas, I
believe that love Field. That's where you know, they were
one of the first low cost airlines to enter the
fray UH, and they have thrived, they continue to thrive
(30:07):
in their base there in Dallas, So you get a
lot of flights coming out West passing through Dallas or Houston. UM.
But for Atlanta is like the hub for like everywhere
in Atlanta still is uh. Depending on which metric use
it's still is the world's busiest airport, which always stuns
me because it feels like there should be bigger airports,
(30:30):
right I always thought that, Yeah, absolutely, But then you
go to like say LaGuardia in New York and it's
like being in you know, a third world country or
like a mad Max kind of situation. It's been under
construction renovation for like ever. And the reason for that,
it goes into one of the big drawbacks of deregulation
is the over congestion that we talked about and the
(30:51):
fact that a lot of airports are really really on
their last legs from being overused. I mean, originally a
lot of airports were built to handle around three hundred
flights today, and now because of that demand and that
um kind of evening of the playing field, they're hosting
more than a thousand flights a day. And so you
have places like LaGuardia that have been trying desperately to
(31:14):
kind of address that, but because it still has to
continue to be an active airport, you can't just shut
the airport down. You gotta kind of do it in
little bits and pieces. And I also tend to think
the mob has involved sort of like the Esplanade and
the Sopranos. I'm pretty sure there's something going on there
that place. Legardia has been a construction for a long time.
It doesn't look like they have accomplished anything, but that's
just me. New Yorkers tell me I'm wrong. And so
(31:41):
the infrastructure can't handle what's happening. It's like we had
these parking lots, right, and these parking lots were designed
to fit cars, let's think of it that way, instead
of flights. Just for comparison, these parking lots were say,
designed to fit fifty cars, and now we have more
than two hundred and fifty cars, and we're we're putting
(32:05):
a lot of logistics and a lot of algorithmic magic
into figuring out how these can all get a parking
space for some amount of time. And we we see
the same thing happening with people because airport congestion doesn't
just stop at the gate or the terminal. Airport congestion
occurs when you're in the plane as well. Yeah, and
(32:25):
everybody wants convenience. Everyone wants to be able to pick
any potential time for them to leave and get their
destination on time, which means that a lot of people
are wanting to be in the air at the same time,
which puts a lot of stress on the infrastructure that
is government regulated, which is air traffic control. I'm so
glad you said that air traffic control. Just thinking of
working in air traffic control fills me with dread because
(32:49):
you're the conductor of this great, dangerous, terrifying orchestra in
the sky and you're working with very old tools and
nobody really wants to pay to update it. I still
think it's bonkers that airplanes still have ashtrays in them,
and then they feel the need to remind you that
you cannot smoke on this flight, like since the what
(33:10):
eighties in the US at least, I mean, I you
know what that reminds me of. That reminds me of
when you go to a gas station. I don't know
if you still see this, but I I see it.
I feel like I still see this frequently. You go
to a gas station and they have the unnecessary sign
that tells you the gasoline is unleaded, and you know,
it begs the question like who wears all this leaded gas?
(33:32):
You know? I I understand how it might be weird
to change an ash tray, but I feel like you
could just get rid of the the sentence unleaded. I agree.
And speaking of fuel, that's another thing that goes to
waste as planes are delayed because of these issues because
safety is obviously key. I mean a mid air collision
that just sounds like, you know, absolute nightmare fuel. So
(33:54):
a lot of a lot of exactly, And that's true,
but they burn a lot of fuel just sitting on
the runway waiting to get, you know, get clearance to
take off. I've been in situations multiple times where you're
like number fifteen to take off for there's some kind
of you know, kerfuffle with their traffic control, and they
don't tell you. They just kind of like you just
sit there, and you're sitting there like idoling. And then
(34:15):
yet fuel on a runway which is super expensive, and
then you get one of these oh this is your
speaking number fifteen? Why do they all talk like that number?
Fifteen dollars? How does that happen? Good? What is the
phenomenon that leads to that voice? So do you think
(34:36):
they talked to their kids in that voice too? I
don't know that would be upsetting to me growing up
with Do you think they whisper like into their ear
and they say, oh, good, good, good, good night John, John,
your daddy loves you so much when you wake up tomorrow.
It's like a Jimmy Stewart voice, kind of really slightly overcast. Uh,
(34:58):
first grade Bush delay fifteen minutes exactly. But yeah, yeah,
I mean that's a great point about the fuel. Let's
go inside the airline too, Uh, And notice that it's
true the seats are getting smaller. People who have ridden
airplanes for a long time, you're not crazy. In the
nineteen seventies, the seat was thirty four inches. Uh, and
(35:18):
then it turned to thirty two or even now there's
some that are twenty eight inches. And for any of
us who are very tall or have really tall friends,
like our pal Robert Lamb, you know that that seat's
got to be tortures, Oh, no doubt. And here get this,
this is a pretty interesting scoop. I didn't know this,
but it makes perfect sense. The reason Hartsfield Jackson International Airport,
(35:39):
or as the my favorite location hashtag Instagram is Hartsfield
LaToya Jackson International Hair Salon and spaceport. I like the
spaceport part, but I'm not a big fan of name.
You're not. It feels loaded, well whatever, and people might
not know about it if they're not from Atlanta, but
you know, if you've passed through, which you likely have,
and you were taking an Instagram photo, it tends to
come up as a location text. But Heartsfield Airport was
(36:02):
built after deregulation, so it was all of these things
were taken into consideration, which is what made it king. Yeah. Yeah,
And for comparison, Detroit's Airport, it's kind of like the
straight line. It was built before this hub and spoke
concept that came with deregulation, and so now we have
(36:23):
the lay of the land, or perhaps we should say
the scope of the sky. And I want to emphasize,
I want to make sure that you and I don't
sound like absolute heels. We're we're not jet setters. We travel,
we traveling coach. Absolutely. You you have been lucky enough
to be connected with an employee of a major airline, um,
(36:46):
and so you get those buddy passes on lock and
that's what allows you to travel in the international flights,
which I believe I'm not mistaken. I mean, the international
flights are going to be bigger and room here and
have more of these lounge areas anyway, because there's such
long flights right well, they're they're larger planes. I haven't
I haven't ever traveled an international route on a private plane.
(37:07):
But the good news for anybody who wants to see
an airborne episode of MTV Cribs or something like that,
is that those things are still in the sky. There's
still these very very high end like cartoonishly offensively posh
airlines like Air Emirates or whatever. I used to watch
(37:27):
YouTube videos of people who would pay untold thousands of
dollars for what was essentially a studio apartment in the sky.
It's nuts and it's it's kind of like that led
Zeppelin stuff you were talking about. You can check out
videos of the world's only private Boeing seven eighties seven Dreamliner,
(37:48):
which is palatial. And I know I used this word earlier,
but it's it's palatial, it's opulent, and it is offensive.
Can we say luxury again, just rolls off the tongue.
Luxury me just sound. We should do we should do
some we should do some fake advertisements just for like,
not not playing specifically, but just for the concept of luxury.
(38:13):
Maybe we can easter egg that one. But now that
is where we are. I have to ask you. I
have to ask you know, and I have to ask you,
Daniel and everybody listening to this show. Overall, given the
pros and the consent, we know, was the regulation a
good thing. I'm very surprised by my own response, which
(38:33):
is that yes, it appears so. I don't think that's
surprising at all. I mean, anything that um reduces the
exclusivity of a thing that is very, very valuable to
many many people, I think is ultimately a very good thing.
And if you want to spend that cash and get
that two inches more of leg room and that champagne
cocktail or whatever, go with God. But at the end
(38:55):
of the day, we're just trying to get from playing
to point B and the fact that we can fly
in a magical two through the sky, you know, across
the country. It's pretty incredible, and that technology should be
available to everyone. What do you think? David wholeheartedly agree.
I think the more accessible the technology is, the more
we can allow people travel. Maybe their worldview opens up
as well. Oh nice social point is a nice touch.
(39:16):
I like that. Um, well, man, I think this is
it for our story today, is it not? Yes? This
is it. This concludes our episode, but not our show.
Thank you so much to everyone who tuned in. If
you want to continue the conversation, we would love to
hear your airplane uh stories of inspiration or your airplane
horror stories. You can find us on Instagram, you can
(39:37):
find us on Facebook, you can find us on Twitter.
Not just as a show, ridiculous histories everywhere. You can
just google that, but you can also find me and
Null in our own personal misadventures. I was gonna say,
as a people as a people. Yeah, yeah, the the
Nation of Ben and noll Um. You can find me
exclusively on Instagram. I don't I don't really tweet. I
have a Lurker account, but I don't really post anything.
(39:58):
But on Instagram I post up a storm at how
Now Noel Brown and uh I am on. I am
doing various strange, completely non sketchy things on Instagram at
Ben Boland and you can also find me on Twitter
at Ben Bolan h s W. Thank you so much
to our super producer dan'l. Thank you to our super
(40:21):
producer Casey pegram there in spirit. Thanks to Alex Williams,
who composed our theme. Christopher haciotis also here in spirit.
Jonathan Strickland, the Quister. Uh, God only knows where he is,
but I hope he's okay because we haven't heard from
him in a while. I'm really starting to worry. You
can still find him on our Facebook community page, ridiculous Historian.
He larks, he lurks, he pops in, he'll chime in,
(40:42):
he's got some hot takes like that. He's gone like Kaiser,
so exactly exactly, but we promise you he does exist.
I have a weird feeling that he will have a
spiky sense nool that he will be on the way
sooner rather than later. Thanks to research associate Gabe Lucier,
thanks to airport deregulation, and thanks to you Roal, and
(41:06):
thanks to the l A Studio for having us for sure,
Thanks to you Ben Tallyho, See you next time, folks.
For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
(00:27):
to the show, Ridiculous Historians. We always say thank you
for tuning in, but in this case especially, thank you
very very much. Uh and and thank you Noel for
being here too. I'm worries been Um, you're a little
farther across the table than I'm used to. I kind
of want to. I want to reach out and touch you,
but you're just gonna be on my grasp reach out
(00:48):
and touch Ben. Ben. I got a question why, More
so now than ever, I don't understand what's the occasion? Right,
this is not a reference to Fox News, and in
no way is this an endorsement of that network. You
and I know are here in recording for the first
time in sunny l A. We are in the way
cooler Los Angeles studios, in our Atlanta digs man. They're
(01:11):
pretty cool too. They're you know what, maybe I am
accidentally negging because this this is all shiny new car smell.
For me, it feels dare I say luxurious. We even
have a shiny new car smell super producer that comes
with the package. That's right, That's right, Our superproducer, Casey
Pegrom as always is here in spirit while he's holding
(01:31):
down Atlanta HQ. We are immensely privileged to be joined
with our l A super producer, Daniel Goodman. How's it going, Daniel?
It's going excellently. Thrilled to be here with you both
and we feel the same good Sarah. Is he get
his own sound effects since he spoke on the mic? Uh? Yeah,
(01:52):
I think so. Can it be like a red hot
Chili peppers whammy guitar kind of dive only just because
that's the most cliche californ anything I can think of it? Yeah?
Are you okay with that? I would be honored truly.
This guy's energy right, it does have a good vibe. Um.
Speaking of vibes, how do you feel about luxury? I
we were talking about this. It's funny because you and
(02:13):
I often when we're when we're hanging out, before we
start rolling, we end up just shooting the breeze, and
then part way through we say, you know what, we
should have been recording this. So this is the conversation
that we're having earlier. I don't know about you, know,
but I have always had a strange relationship with the
(02:35):
concept of luxury because luxury itself is so relative and comparative, right,
Like in in places where people are starving, being able
to eat is a luxury. In places where people are
very well to do, small things like a bag of
cash shoes might be this luxury. Right. How do you
feel about like fine linens and cushions and you know,
(02:57):
massages and oils otions. I appreciate it. Don't know why
I'm going down this road. I appreciate all of them,
except for massages. You know how I am about strangers
touching me? But what about you? Man? How about jewels
and gold and fine specifically picking stuff that terrified with
your with your hands? But yeah, what about you? I
(03:18):
don't know, man, I'm I'm I'm. I'm fine with the
opulent life, even though I don't live it, but I
like looking at other people that live it. Well, we're
getting there, and I don't want to put you on
the spot. But you know, longtime listeners, you will recall that, uh,
my ride or die nol here has a has a
past in the opera houses of great renown. You know
(03:39):
you moved in some rarefied air. Well. They let me
sit in the corner and sniff the rarefied air in
a rarefied corner. Yeah, I, um, I've had recently, I've
had some weird luxury experiences on airlines. You know, we've
talked about this on the show before. You and I
(04:00):
have been traveling a lot. Luckily, I think we both
enjoy the experience of traveling. I don't know about you. Uh,
I'm not trying to sound one percent here or anything,
but I tend to sleep better in moving vehicles than
I sleep anywhere else I've ever heard in my life.
Is it definitely not? But I understand where you're coming from.
(04:21):
And Ben, I mean, speaking of luxury, you have been
taking a lot of international flights lately, um, and you
tend to occupy these more kind of luxury sleeper type
cabins because of because of your You've got some connects,
right Yeah. Yeah, So I have ended up being a
(04:42):
plus one kind of trophy for my girlfriend and as
a result, because she works with an airline, as a result,
we end up looking out into these, uh, these cabins
that I believe I have no business being and I
have no business and this class. No, So you're like
arm candy for her, is what you're saying. I alright,
(05:03):
she has trots you out terrible taste, and dude, it's
luckily for me. But I've also noticed that in these
these cabins, the foods a little nicer, you get, you know,
it's not like just the crave box with your cheese
that's in your your yogurt or whatever it is, or
your hummus. It's more like a filet and like some vegetables.
And there's even a hashtag your gir girlfriend follows called
(05:25):
like flight food or something like that. It's a thing. Yeah, yeah,
it's the thing. There's this entire community online that just
post pictures of different food they eat on airlines, very specific.
It's yeah, I love you know, I think we both
love very specific communities. And this is this is a
crazy when the blogs alone are fantastic. You can you
(05:48):
can search any airline past or present, and you won't
learn much about the aircraft, but you will learn what
what kind of stuff they serve and the business class stuff.
What was it? Time is so funny? Times such a
flat circle. It was a few weeks ago. I want
to say it was a week ago or just just two.
When you and I and are a good pal Matt
(06:10):
We're sitting down with John Hodgeman and he was telling
us about his surreal experience being a a medallion status.
He's he's a chaser. He's a medallion chaser. That's right.
He was chasing that diamond medallion status, which is very ephemeral.
As it turns out. I thought, once you had it,
you had it for life. But you gotta keep like
you know that XP wears off very quickly. And uh,
(06:32):
you know, I I've felt for you because I I
was looking up to you as you're you're close right,
I'm approaching silver and I was told by Mr Hodgeman
and no uncertain terms, I that is a trash medallion.
It's it's a non medallion. Yeah, you can listen to
that episode of stuff they don't want you to know.
And John at some point just stops responding to Noel,
(06:56):
and whenever Noel mentions it, he just sort of screams.
I had questions. I was trying to understand how the
points work, and there's different milestones that you reach that
that give you the next boost to the next level
level up. I guess he would not engage with me
because I was far, far too much beneath him. Um,
but we're not talking about medallions today. Where we started
talking about luxury and then we got derailed a little bit,
(07:16):
which I love. Um. Do you remember have you ever
seen or heard any stories about led Zeppelin's luxury plane,
private plane called the Starship. I have heard of the Starship. Yeah.
So it had like a full lounge with an electric
organ and like at the time it was a cutting
edge like video system where they could play films and
(07:37):
it was absolutely the height of decadence and dare we
say luxury. And there was a time this is a
Boeing seven oh seven after a two hundred thousand dollar renovation,
the plane would have been leased. They didn't even own
it for dollars per flight and it was just like,
(07:57):
you know, absolute represent inunted that led Zeppelin decadence with
you know, coke fueled parties with Elton John and Eric
Smith and all that stuff. We're not talking about that
exactly today, but there was a time where that level
of at least aesthetic loungeness could have possibly been available
to uh folks like me or you. Yeah, it could
(08:18):
have become the norm. You know, today a lot of
people who travel by air have have a core common
understanding of the different problems, you know, like security stinks,
I hate waiting in line, no one wants a middle seat,
and flying it can be such a hassle in the
modern day. But back in the glory days of regulated
(08:42):
air travel, we saw things like that led Zeppelin play right.
We saw things like, uh, for anybody who's a fan
of Austin Powers, you'll you'll notice they have this stuff
about luxury airlines there and as part of his yeah
baby status. That is because is of something called the
Civil Aeronautics Board. Before nineteen seventy eight, the Civil Aeronautics
(09:07):
Board controlled prices and roots for all all of the
planes in the US, and that meant that carriers couldn't
really compete like you're just for example, your your Frontier,
your Spirit or your Delta or your Alaskan Airlines or whatever.
They couldn't mess with each other too much on prices,
(09:28):
nor could they have a lot of agency with roots.
So the only way they could compete to get more
customers was based on how they served their customers, you
know what I mean. And that meant they started installing
some of that stuff you described, which we could describe
a little bit more. Uh, like the remember the Tiger Lounge.
(09:48):
I don't remember it personally because it's never lucky enough
to to travel. We were born then on the and
the Tiger Lounge, but yeah, it's true. So in nineteen
seventy the first Boeing seven forty seven jet was introduced,
and it uh in order to kind of take advantage
of the massive amount of space that a big jet
like that had. Um and again at the time where
(10:11):
the idea of competing for customers attention and and dollar
was a big deal between the airlines, so uh, they
there was this thing called the Tiger Lounge, which was
kind of in the guts of the Boeing seven seven.
This was only a prototype, and it had things like
I had really bespoke glass top bar and like tiger
(10:31):
print black leather seats, and there was even a glass
bottom boat type situation that allowed you to look down
into the you know, the abyss, which after some drinks,
I don't know if that would have been a good idea.
That would have kind of freaked me out and made
me question my mortality a little too much. A window
on the side I can handle, but straight down I
(10:51):
don't know. About that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Also, for anyone
who hasn't seen the Los Angeles studio, Dan only gotta
tell you it freaks me out to know that there's
a glass bottom on the second floor. You saw that, right,
Oh yeah, that's weird. It is weird. I don't want
to have meetings in there. I don't. I don't look
up and there people peering down ato you. It's very disconcerting.
(11:13):
I don't know why I've found a new weird neuroses.
I don't want people to see the top of my
head during meetings. You've been I've been looking it at
that time. But you're right. Well, you're right because the
Tiger Lounge sort of echoes the the aesthetic of very
fancy luxury cruise liners, you know. And because the Civil
(11:35):
Aeronautics Board is no more, you're much less likely to
see things like piano bars, which used to be in
both first class and coach. You're less likely to see
a Parisian chef preparing meals, and you're less likely to
see these like fashion plate uniforms for flight attendants. You're
(11:56):
less likely to see a lot of stuff, and that's
because in night the reason that you and I and
Danill missed. This glorified era of fancy airline travel is
because in Congress enacted something called the Airline Deregulation Act.
This is the reason we went from things like Tiger
(12:19):
Lounges to Spirit and no ding on Spirit. Spirit is
a budget airline that will get you where you need
to go. The idea here was ostensibly that the act
of deregulating the airline market would allow the average Jane
and John Doe or Smith or whatever you know, anonymous
name you want to use, to have access to this
(12:42):
mode of travel, which was so much faster than a
car or than a train at the time, and they
would have never been able to afford it otherwise. The
reasoning went, and this opened up a new plane field
because you know, as we said at the top airlines
in the US originally could not compete on price, and
(13:04):
they couldn't really compete on routes, so they had to
compete on customer service. But now that they could compete
on the basis of price, they could really talk turkey
and they could undercut their competitors and stuff all the
customer service bells and whistles right that that all fell
to the wayside, it didn't need it wasn't part of
the model anymore, right, But why Ben, I'm still a
(13:27):
little bit confused, Like was it because they're the competition
had gotten to stiff and there were like empty flights
or something like that. Like I'm a little confused as
to how deregulating would cause this change. Yeah, Yeah, And
and what the move, what the drive to deregulation would
(13:47):
have been, right, because again, ostensibly, you know, emphasize that word,
please hear that in italics. Ostensibly this is meant to
bring air travel to the people. However, there was something
that occurred called the air mail scandal, and this occurred
way back in the nineteen thirties. This was a congressional
(14:11):
investigation on um on corruption, on nepotistic awarding of contracts
to certain airlines to carry mail. Yeah, and because of that,
people were much more in favor of government regulation originally,
and now more and more in these are modern days,
(14:31):
we'll hear people arguing against regulation, often often with some
sort of ulterior motive. But what happened with regulation the
airline industry is that it began to have the opposite
effect to what Congress originally wanted. It to do because
(14:54):
they wanted to regulate flights to make sure that airfare
was in their fairly priced and that planes would not
be in a situation where there would be empty flights.
Like even now, even today, in a deregulated environment, the
three of us could buy plane tickets and someone may
have sold us more tickets than there were seats on
(15:16):
the plane. Yeah, I mean, it's absolutely a rarity to
ever be on a flight where there's even one empty seat. Yeah,
I don't know that I've been on it. I mean
I had a middle free middle seat on this last
flight that I took, and that was just like a
dream come true. You know, I could stretch my one
leg out to the side, I could use that middle
trade table as an additional table that I had to
(15:36):
get into an agreement with my other seat. May It
was like, hey, man, is this cool. I'll have this side,
you can have that side. You know. It was great.
But that's that's very unusual. Now I get it now, Ben,
I guess the the the the issue for me was
the disfluency of like, you know, regulation good, deregulation bad.
But it was that regulation that was causing the airlines
to prosper right, but it maybe was keeping fair higher
(16:00):
and there wasn't enough competition um and so it wasn't
necessarily good for the consumers. And then I believe that
it get to a point where the Civil Aeronautics Board
was seen as having kind of um run its course
at this point in time, late nineteen seventies. What they're
(16:21):
seeing is that they're regulated airlines, and those are the
legacy airlines, and then there are these upstarts where I
should say, start up airlines that are unregulated. So Congress
compares the basic fare of a ticket and they say,
let's look at what it costs someone to fly on
a regulated airline and what it costs to fly on
an unregulated airline. And then they said, oh wow, click
(16:46):
lightbulb moment. Unregulated airlines charge way less money per ticket,
and we should help people get some savings, and therefore
we're helping more people to fly, which in the long
term arguably helps this industry. There's a guy from Cornell University,
Alfred E. Kahn k A h N, and he was
(17:09):
he was according to a great article on air and
Space dot s I dot e du, he was one
of the first academics to look at the airline industry
simply and solely as a business. And he said, if
we break up this regulated structure that we have, we
will create new space for new airlines, will increase competition
(17:33):
therefore will lower these fares. And Carter actually appointed him
as the chair of the Civil Aeronautics Board to lead
the charge into this new era of deregulation. And at
the time, um the major airlines were against it, which
is interesting, right, You would think they'd be like more money,
(17:54):
more money, or like, you know, less fewer rules, more money,
we can do whatever we want. But again, that's that's
the thing you kind of have to wrap your head around.
This idea of regulation was more or less in the
best interest of the airlines rather than the consumer. And
this it's it's just kind of it's a little tricky
for me. Even like when you uh, deregulate something, you
think that means it's a free for all now, but
it didn't quite mean that in the situation at all, right, yeah, exactly.
(18:18):
And so when Congress pushed this through and and Carter
signed the Deregulation Act, which was specifically October, so the
anniversary is coming up if you're looking for something strangely
specific to celebrate. When they signed this Deregulation Act, they
fundamentally changed the airline industry and we're still feeling the
(18:42):
effects of this today. The Deregulation Act eventually dissolved that
Civil Aeronautics Board, which again ALFREDY. Khan had run for
a time, and now US airlines were no longer regulated
the way that a public utility is regulated, and this
led to the death of some iconic famous airlines. Without
(19:06):
this regulation, outfits like PanAm or Eastern Airlines couldn't compete
because there were new, younger airlines that were coming in.
They were coming in hot, you know what I mean. Yeah,
But pan M two is like the quintessential luxury type
you know, iconic sixties seventies airline that you think of,
like with these kinds of lounges in these piano bars
(19:28):
and the very very stylish flight attendants and all of that,
and like the kind of cocktail our culture. Like I think,
wasn't there a TV show about PanAm? I mean, PanAm
shows up in a ton of films, for sure, Yeah,
and it was in Catch Me if you can, for sure.
But I feel like there was actually a series sort
of recently about the history of Panama. It was like,
you know, about that whole kind of universe. You're right, Nola.
(19:51):
A quick a quick look online tells me that not
only was there a TV series about PanAm, it is
called pan Birst of Creativity, Burst of Creativity. I love,
I love to attribute that. Yeah, the the deregulation knocks down,
knocks down these formerly herculean legacy carriers and introduces a
(20:15):
new species of airline, the low cost carrier or LCC.
So essentially it just lowered the barrier to entry into
the field. Right, Yeah, So what maybe once was not
a monopoly necessarily, but at the very least a very
tight knit group of competitors that more or less weren't
after each other. There was enough, you know, money to
(20:37):
go around. Now the field is kind of flooded with
all of these young, whipper snapper airlines, and nobody really
cares about the luxury stuff anymore because they have more
access to cheap tickets and travel that a certain segment
of the economy would not have had before. It was
much more exclusive. Even if there was a coach kind
of piano bar situation, it still would have been way
(20:57):
out of reach for most you know, lower to middle
class Americans, and a lot of people prior to the
seventies were traveling. This may surprise some of our younger listeners.
That certainly surprised me. A lot of people prior to
the seventies. Instead of traveling in luxury airlines, they were
(21:18):
traveling in luxury buses and coaches. There's a great museum
in Hershey, Pennsylvania where you can see uh, tons of
literally tons of these buses that have you know, uniformed attendance.
They have a beverage cart and food service. So we're
still in a situation where people have expected this, and
(21:41):
now with deregulation, someone's able to say, well, I may
not get you know, I may not get my fine wine,
and I may not get I don't know, I'm making
stuff up my my foot massage cushions and linens and
oils and lotions. Yeah, yeah, I may not get all
of these things. Uh, and I may be eating a
microwave meal or just some peanuts. Microwave was considered very
(22:05):
very forward, very futuristic at the time. I mean that
was earlier than that. But remember when the microwave was
like it's called you know, microwave cooking was like the
wave of the future, and they'll be like microwave cookbooks.
I think that was probably more in the fifties. Yeah, yeah,
I think right. Maybe they were more on a toaster
oven vibe, but they are. Point is that people would say, Okay,
I may not get all this stuff, but I can
(22:26):
travel faster than I ever have before, and I can
finally afford it. And this means that now what people
expect when they buy a ticket has changed, and there
are some success stories like today Southwest Airlines is the
largest domestic carrier in terms of like how many butts
(22:46):
they put in seats and then in the air and
then down on the ground. Can I throw a little
shade real quick? Yeah? Please, I really shade. I just
you know, we're lucky. We travel a lot for work,
and so we're able to book whatever airline is most convenient,
and so I tend to book Delta, and I flung
exclusively on Delta for quite a while and then ran
into a situation where I was coming out here to
l A and the Delta flight was just exorbitantly more
(23:08):
expensive because wayed too long to book. So I did
my first Southwest flight, and I was shocked, Ben, at
the lack of luxury. You were shocked. There wasn't even
a USB charger, There were no there were no seatback screens. Dude.
Was their WiFi barely? It was like one g? It
was like a half a g. How long was the
(23:30):
flight long? Do you feel like now you're you're you're
a Delta boy through and through? I mean, I think
I have to be. But here's what happened, Ben, I
had I I assumed, surely there's a way to charge
my device, so I wasn't paying any attention. I was
just using it willy nilly, you know, in the terminal,
taking videos, snap chatting, you know, crushing candies. And then
I get on the plane and I'm like, excuse me,
(23:52):
excuse me, Matt, miss uh where where where's the outlet?
And she just looked at me with disdain and rolled
her eyes and scoffed at me, and and and and
and walked away. And and I had to I had
to I had to think. I had I was, I was.
I had to be with my own thoughts. You hate that, terrifying, dude,
It was terrifying. I would occasionally like turn the phone
(24:13):
back on even though I had three percent battery left,
and I'm like, I'm gonna ration myself out five seconds
of screen time at a time. Well, I'm glad, I'm
glad you made it, you know. And that's that's an
interesting anecdote because it goes into what we're what we're
saying here, which is it's less a man. Luxury again
is relative, right, it's comparative. Luxury is based on expectation, right.
(24:38):
And for you, if had you gone into that situation
knowing what the score would be, it would have been
a little less um surprising, right, Yes, And we're at
the point especially if you travel, Uh, if you become
accustomed to the same thing, and I'm not saying like
fancy tiger skin piano bars, but if you're accustomed to
(25:00):
something like a USB charger, then it doesn't feel like
a luxury. Well, it goes back to what you said
at the beginning of the show bad. The idea of
luxury in and of itself is subjective, right, Like you know,
a USB charger on a plane compared to no USB
charger on a plane, to me, is luxury, or at
least at the very least based on my expectation, and
the ability to fly at all for many people is
(25:23):
a luxury. The to me, the ability to fly is
definitely a luxury because you know, I have this bad
habit where I always start rationing out hours and thinking
in terms of what I could have done, how long
something would have taken. So if I'm on a four
hour flight and I'm thinking, well, how long would it
take for me to drive? Right? And then how long
(25:47):
would it take for me to walk? And you know,
or ride a horse or something, which I'm still not
solid on the numbers there. I haven't haven't done my
horse research yet, but but we think about it, and
it is this enormous luxury. And now that we are
in this era of deregulation, and now that we also
(26:07):
have people uh in institutions advocating for fewer plane flights
due to environmental concerns, we have to ask ourselves is
this a sustainable thing? Because when when the deregulation occurs,
a bunch of new airlines come up and then a
bunch of them die, they go to put uh, they're
(26:27):
stocks crash. Remember Trump airlines? I do, and not personally,
but I remember reading about it. That was the thing
that lasted about five minutes. Yeah, yeah, up there with
Trump Casinos, Trump Steaks. I think Virgin is still a
thing that did Virgin die and that was one of
that was one of the new entries into the field
of recent years, and I think it's still around. Yeah,
Virgins going alive and kicking. We got the thumbs up
(26:49):
from down huge, huge fan of Virgin Airlines. I mean,
I think there's neat things about Virgin Airlines. I think,
isn't there something cool about it? What? What? What? What's
the gimmick for Virgin Airlines dandald you know, uh, you know,
fancy purple lighting on the inside. See you there you go.
That constitutes luxury, Yeah, exactly, luxury on on a budget. Um.
But no, it's absolutely true. And then you have like
(27:10):
you know, again, Delta is probably considered more of a
premium airline because the ticket prices are always a good yeah,
and again for good reason, not good reason really because
again if you go you compare to the way it
was in the sixties and seventies where you had like
you said, you know, infinity pools and you know, glass
(27:31):
tabletops and belly dancers and then all of a sudden,
there's just uh there, there's the first robot ever. Graham
of Cocaine came with your tickets, right, that was that
was that was part of the course. And it, you know,
obviously pales in comparison. But then you compare having a
little bit more leg room that that that constitutes luxury
(27:52):
at this point, you know, I mean, you think about
howmuch people pay for a first class ticket. All you're
getting is a slightly wider seat and the ability to
stretch your legs out a little bit, and a trade table,
better snacks and maybe a compliment. You get served first,
and you get to get on the plane first. Because
travel has become such a nightmarish hellscape in terms of
just getting to the airport, how congested it is now.
(28:14):
We've got all the security regulation and taking off your
shoes every time I go through through security. I've kind
of trained my mind not to look at it to
such an affront anymore. I just sort of turn off
my brain until I get on the other side. But
it's stressful, Yeah, it's stressful. That's why I I always
end up getting to a gate all right if I
(28:36):
feel like I'm gonna be on time. I assume that
means I'm going to be late, you know what I mean.
And part of it is because the Deregulation Act worked,
airports are much more crowded, people can go places. We
also live in an increasingly globalized society, so we are
much more likely to know someone in in a distant
physical location. What are some other positives that came as
(28:59):
a result of of deregulation ben Ah, Yes, yes, yes, uh.
The hub and spoke system is one of the big ones.
So one of the reasons that people in the US
and in our part of the U s in Atlanta,
Georgia end up traveling Delta a lot is because Delta
is I wouldn't say a monopoly, but it's very much entrenched,
(29:20):
and Delta has their headquarters and their big hub in Atlanta. You'll, yeah,
you'll hear people say I like flying Delta. The thing is,
no matter where I'm going, I have to stop in
Atlanta first. It's a weird thing, but the the hub
and spoke system is essentially this. Some airports are used
as a connecting point for passengers coming from different places
(29:43):
and going to different destinations. Pretty much every airline except
for maybe like a person's private G six or something.
They use this system and to this day, I mean
we talked about at the top of the show, Southwest
is still the hub for Southwest is in Dallas, I
believe that love Field. That's where you know, they were
one of the first low cost airlines to enter the
fray UH, and they have thrived, they continue to thrive
(30:07):
in their base there in Dallas, So you get a
lot of flights coming out West passing through Dallas or Houston. UM.
But for Atlanta is like the hub for like everywhere
in Atlanta still is uh. Depending on which metric use
it's still is the world's busiest airport, which always stuns
me because it feels like there should be bigger airports,
(30:30):
right I always thought that, Yeah, absolutely, But then you
go to like say LaGuardia in New York and it's
like being in you know, a third world country or
like a mad Max kind of situation. It's been under
construction renovation for like ever. And the reason for that,
it goes into one of the big drawbacks of deregulation
is the over congestion that we talked about and the
(30:51):
fact that a lot of airports are really really on
their last legs from being overused. I mean, originally a
lot of airports were built to handle around three hundred
flights today, and now because of that demand and that
um kind of evening of the playing field, they're hosting
more than a thousand flights a day. And so you
have places like LaGuardia that have been trying desperately to
(31:14):
kind of address that, but because it still has to
continue to be an active airport, you can't just shut
the airport down. You gotta kind of do it in
little bits and pieces. And I also tend to think
the mob has involved sort of like the Esplanade and
the Sopranos. I'm pretty sure there's something going on there
that place. Legardia has been a construction for a long time.
It doesn't look like they have accomplished anything, but that's
just me. New Yorkers tell me I'm wrong. And so
(31:41):
the infrastructure can't handle what's happening. It's like we had
these parking lots, right, and these parking lots were designed
to fit cars, let's think of it that way, instead
of flights. Just for comparison, these parking lots were say,
designed to fit fifty cars, and now we have more
than two hundred and fifty cars, and we're we're putting
(32:05):
a lot of logistics and a lot of algorithmic magic
into figuring out how these can all get a parking
space for some amount of time. And we we see
the same thing happening with people because airport congestion doesn't
just stop at the gate or the terminal. Airport congestion
occurs when you're in the plane as well. Yeah, and
(32:25):
everybody wants convenience. Everyone wants to be able to pick
any potential time for them to leave and get their
destination on time, which means that a lot of people
are wanting to be in the air at the same time,
which puts a lot of stress on the infrastructure that
is government regulated, which is air traffic control. I'm so
glad you said that air traffic control. Just thinking of
working in air traffic control fills me with dread because
(32:49):
you're the conductor of this great, dangerous, terrifying orchestra in
the sky and you're working with very old tools and
nobody really wants to pay to update it. I still
think it's bonkers that airplanes still have ashtrays in them,
and then they feel the need to remind you that
you cannot smoke on this flight, like since the what
(33:10):
eighties in the US at least, I mean, I you
know what that reminds me of. That reminds me of
when you go to a gas station. I don't know
if you still see this, but I I see it.
I feel like I still see this frequently. You go
to a gas station and they have the unnecessary sign
that tells you the gasoline is unleaded, and you know,
it begs the question like who wears all this leaded gas?
(33:32):
You know? I I understand how it might be weird
to change an ash tray, but I feel like you
could just get rid of the the sentence unleaded. I agree.
And speaking of fuel, that's another thing that goes to
waste as planes are delayed because of these issues because
safety is obviously key. I mean a mid air collision
that just sounds like, you know, absolute nightmare fuel. So
(33:54):
a lot of a lot of exactly, And that's true,
but they burn a lot of fuel just sitting on
the runway waiting to get, you know, get clearance to
take off. I've been in situations multiple times where you're
like number fifteen to take off for there's some kind
of you know, kerfuffle with their traffic control, and they
don't tell you. They just kind of like you just
sit there, and you're sitting there like idoling. And then
(34:15):
yet fuel on a runway which is super expensive, and
then you get one of these oh this is your
speaking number fifteen? Why do they all talk like that number?
Fifteen dollars? How does that happen? Good? What is the
phenomenon that leads to that voice? So do you think
(34:36):
they talked to their kids in that voice too? I
don't know that would be upsetting to me growing up
with Do you think they whisper like into their ear
and they say, oh, good, good, good, good night John, John,
your daddy loves you so much when you wake up tomorrow.
It's like a Jimmy Stewart voice, kind of really slightly overcast. Uh,
(34:58):
first grade Bush delay fifteen minutes exactly. But yeah, yeah,
I mean that's a great point about the fuel. Let's
go inside the airline too, Uh, And notice that it's
true the seats are getting smaller. People who have ridden
airplanes for a long time, you're not crazy. In the
nineteen seventies, the seat was thirty four inches. Uh, and
(35:18):
then it turned to thirty two or even now there's
some that are twenty eight inches. And for any of
us who are very tall or have really tall friends,
like our pal Robert Lamb, you know that that seat's
got to be tortures, Oh, no doubt. And here get this,
this is a pretty interesting scoop. I didn't know this,
but it makes perfect sense. The reason Hartsfield Jackson International Airport,
(35:39):
or as the my favorite location hashtag Instagram is Hartsfield
LaToya Jackson International Hair Salon and spaceport. I like the
spaceport part, but I'm not a big fan of name.
You're not. It feels loaded, well whatever, and people might
not know about it if they're not from Atlanta, but
you know, if you've passed through, which you likely have,
and you were taking an Instagram photo, it tends to
come up as a location text. But Heartsfield Airport was
(36:02):
built after deregulation, so it was all of these things
were taken into consideration, which is what made it king. Yeah. Yeah,
And for comparison, Detroit's Airport, it's kind of like the
straight line. It was built before this hub and spoke
concept that came with deregulation, and so now we have
(36:23):
the lay of the land, or perhaps we should say
the scope of the sky. And I want to emphasize,
I want to make sure that you and I don't
sound like absolute heels. We're we're not jet setters. We travel,
we traveling coach. Absolutely. You you have been lucky enough
to be connected with an employee of a major airline, um,
(36:46):
and so you get those buddy passes on lock and
that's what allows you to travel in the international flights,
which I believe I'm not mistaken. I mean, the international
flights are going to be bigger and room here and
have more of these lounge areas anyway, because there's such
long flights right well, they're they're larger planes. I haven't
I haven't ever traveled an international route on a private plane.
(37:07):
But the good news for anybody who wants to see
an airborne episode of MTV Cribs or something like that,
is that those things are still in the sky. There's
still these very very high end like cartoonishly offensively posh
airlines like Air Emirates or whatever. I used to watch
(37:27):
YouTube videos of people who would pay untold thousands of
dollars for what was essentially a studio apartment in the sky.
It's nuts and it's it's kind of like that led
Zeppelin stuff you were talking about. You can check out
videos of the world's only private Boeing seven eighties seven Dreamliner,
(37:48):
which is palatial. And I know I used this word earlier,
but it's it's palatial, it's opulent, and it is offensive.
Can we say luxury again, just rolls off the tongue.
Luxury me just sound. We should do we should do
some we should do some fake advertisements just for like,
not not playing specifically, but just for the concept of luxury.
(38:13):
Maybe we can easter egg that one. But now that
is where we are. I have to ask you. I
have to ask you know, and I have to ask you,
Daniel and everybody listening to this show. Overall, given the
pros and the consent, we know, was the regulation a
good thing. I'm very surprised by my own response, which
(38:33):
is that yes, it appears so. I don't think that's
surprising at all. I mean, anything that um reduces the
exclusivity of a thing that is very, very valuable to
many many people, I think is ultimately a very good thing.
And if you want to spend that cash and get
that two inches more of leg room and that champagne
cocktail or whatever, go with God. But at the end
(38:55):
of the day, we're just trying to get from playing
to point B and the fact that we can fly
in a magical two through the sky, you know, across
the country. It's pretty incredible, and that technology should be
available to everyone. What do you think? David wholeheartedly agree.
I think the more accessible the technology is, the more
we can allow people travel. Maybe their worldview opens up
as well. Oh nice social point is a nice touch.
(39:16):
I like that. Um, well, man, I think this is
it for our story today, is it not? Yes? This
is it. This concludes our episode, but not our show.
Thank you so much to everyone who tuned in. If
you want to continue the conversation, we would love to
hear your airplane uh stories of inspiration or your airplane
horror stories. You can find us on Instagram, you can
(39:37):
find us on Facebook, you can find us on Twitter.
Not just as a show, ridiculous histories everywhere. You can
just google that, but you can also find me and
Null in our own personal misadventures. I was gonna say,
as a people as a people. Yeah, yeah, the the
Nation of Ben and noll Um. You can find me
exclusively on Instagram. I don't I don't really tweet. I
have a Lurker account, but I don't really post anything.
(39:58):
But on Instagram I post up a storm at how
Now Noel Brown and uh I am on. I am
doing various strange, completely non sketchy things on Instagram at
Ben Boland and you can also find me on Twitter
at Ben Bolan h s W. Thank you so much
to our super producer dan'l. Thank you to our super
(40:21):
producer Casey pegram there in spirit. Thanks to Alex Williams,
who composed our theme. Christopher haciotis also here in spirit.
Jonathan Strickland, the Quister. Uh, God only knows where he is,
but I hope he's okay because we haven't heard from
him in a while. I'm really starting to worry. You
can still find him on our Facebook community page, ridiculous Historian.
He larks, he lurks, he pops in, he'll chime in,
(40:42):
he's got some hot takes like that. He's gone like Kaiser,
so exactly exactly, but we promise you he does exist.
I have a weird feeling that he will have a
spiky sense nool that he will be on the way
sooner rather than later. Thanks to research associate Gabe Lucier,
thanks to airport deregulation, and thanks to you Roal, and
(41:06):
thanks to the l A Studio for having us for sure,
Thanks to you Ben Tallyho, See you next time, folks.
For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I
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