August 22, 2024 • 38 mins
Now that we know the origin of last meals, it's time to dive into the reality of this somewhat disturbing practice. In the second part of this special two-part episode, Ben and Noel don't just walk explore the final suppers of criminals, presidents, and celebrities -- they also give you the inside scoop on some of your favorite podcasters' last meals.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much
for tuning in. This is part two of our Ridiculous
History of Last Meals.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
And if I may extend a heartfelt apology to Jonathan
trick Let the Quist for implying that you would eat
human flesh for his last meal. I hope you know
that was a joke. Jonathan's a pescatarian. I don't think
humans fall into that range of cuisine for not for
our pelic quist, or at least it could be that
lab grown artificial human meat that isn't really thingfu. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
We also want to say a big, big thing shout
out to our guest producer Paul Wygoo as well as
our producer mister Max Williams. You're an old brown. I'm
been bowling. This is part two of our series. And
uh man, this is a roller coaster.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Speaking of roller coaster, let's roll that beautiful bean footage.
This notion that it's like somehow some kind of rorshack
tests you know, I guess into the psyche of of
of this individual, or at the very least people are
(01:45):
like you know, as is evidenced by the absolute absurd
in my opinion, popularity of true crime. People are just
like absolutely obsessed with like humanizing the inhuman, you know
what I mean, like like in some way getting inside
the mind of a cold killer. And when you realize
that they like they like pizza too. I like pizza,
(02:06):
you know. I mean, maybe I'm overstating it or being
a little globe, but I do feel like that obsession
with this stuff is a bit toxic, you know, and
it's not my favorite. And you know, when we talk
about this stuff on stuff they don't want you to know,
or on this show, it comes up from time to time.
We're never trying to like, I.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Don't know, like or whatever.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
You're exploited. And this does inherently feel the obsession with
this a little exploitive.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah, well, we're talking about you know, absolute monsters, right,
spree killers, mass murderers, serial murderers. This, this does become
red meat for the public because people are interested in
food and crime. And you nailed it, man, There's this
(02:55):
aspect of it that gets really close to a rorshack
test or in rams or astrology, reading tea leaves and saying,
how can I what if any unique insight does this
give us about someone like John Wayne Gacy asked for
shrimp fried chicken, french fries and a pound of strawberries.
(03:17):
It's similar, you know, it's similar to the gray market
trade in serial killer memorabilia a little bit, you know
what I mean?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah, And like you know, I mean, no, I guess food.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I don't know if it was McDonald's french fry and
someone got there there those things never decay.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
I don't know if you know this, but there was.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I believe I might have even been in that pretty
debunked documentary Supersized Me, where it turns out Morgan Spurlock,
who did pass away recently, no Shae on the on
the deceased, but there were some things about that that
were very disingenuous in terms of like his you know,
expose of McDonald's or whatever. But one thing that always
sticks stuck with me and I have found to be
true is that McDonald's french fries don't like, they don't rot,
(03:59):
they don't kay, they don't mold, they just kind of crystallized.
So someone could have gotten their hands. I wanted John
Wayne Gacy's left over French fries. And like you know,
sold it for a bunch of money on the gray market.
Oh that's terrible. Oh gosh, that is terrible. I did
not think of that.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
We also know Timothy McVeigh, the infamous bomber ate two
pints of mint chocolate chip ice cream. There is one
story that stood out to me speaking of the humanity
sometimes found in these broken systems. A convict in Tennessee
named Philip Workman was on death row and he requested
(04:40):
that he requested a last meal, not for himself. He
wanted vegetarian pizzas to be distributed to homeless shelters in Nashville, Tennessee.
The prison officials denied his request, but local activist groups
got together and they handed out hundreds of pizzas to
Nashville homeless shelters, as a story in CNN in two
(05:05):
thousand and seven by Ashley fans fan tz, So do.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Check that out.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
We know there are a lot of limits in multiple states.
For instance, in Oklahoma, the laws on the books, because
I believe they stand now say quote, reasonable effort should
be made to accommodate a request which shall not exceed
twenty five dollars.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Dang no boluga caviar for old Timmy McVeigh. Yes, God,
he got the mint chocolate chip. Though. How do you
feel about mint chocolate chip ice cream? Ben, I'm okay
with it. It's not ever going to be my favorite, but
I feel the same way. Yeah, it gives toothpaste a
(05:51):
little bit. There's something in my mind that always goes
to like I'm literally consuming toothpaste with little studs of
chocolate in it, you know, But each there, I.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Wonder if I don't know this, I would have to
look into it further. But I wonder if Timothy McVeigh
was a smoker, and if so, maybe the mental or
the strong mint had some kind of.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Appeal to him. Maybe so Also to get in front
of this question, yes, historically, a lot of people ask
for tobacco, a lot of people ask for booze, some
variety of alcohol. You know. It's again, it's that old Uh,
it's that old film.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Trope, right, firing squad and the firing cigare.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Cigarette and only one of the people shooting at you
has a bullet in their rifle. Right, so you can
hide your sin from God.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Like the Orderlagne, right, Exactly, a lot of ethical quandaries
with food and finality, Food and finality, that's what we're
It makes me think of the butter tax, you know,
like all of this these notions there history of like
what can we do to trick God into thinking that
we are somehow more pious than we actually are? And
(07:07):
that in and of itself fields kind of sacrilegious, doesn't it?
The notion that we could fool God or like hide
from God, not how it works. I love it.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I love the idea that you fundamentally believe in this
all powerful, all knowing, like omniscient, omnipotent entity that is
just a sucker for loopholes.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, exactly, you can't see through that cloth over your head,
you know, shrudge when you munch down on that tiny bird.
But yeah, Florida Back to Florida has a bit of
a moralistic kind of axiom built into their proceedings to
avoid extravagance. They're a little less cheap than Oklahoma, though
(07:55):
their last meal requests cannot exceed forty dollars must be
available to buy locally, so no imported.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
You know, fine cheeses or what have you.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
No kazu marzu for you, right, which would be a
very strange thing to request.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
What is that? That's the that's the cheese that with
the maggots. Yeah, yeah, you got to be kind of
in the Sardinian underground.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
What's illegal?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
It's it's like, yeah, I mean, it's just because it's
like you know also, I mean when I was in Spain,
I kind of forgot this. I think I knew it
at some point, but like certain the way they make
their yamm over there, like the really really fancy ham,
the processes that they use over there make it illegal
to bring it back to the States. Oh. I went
(08:45):
to like a little little stand that was selling and
I bought like some pre packet stuff, and the butcher
was kind enough to remind me or tell me for
the first time. Like I say, again I've known in
the past that he said, don't bring that on your
carry on, don't bring that on the plane. I was like, oh, bro,
I'm gonna that here. I'm here for a little bit.
But I think that's very interesting. Yeah, that's news to me.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
So wait, because you can buy like Iberian ham here
in the States, right.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
But it's different when you buy it over there. The
processes are different, they're under a different set of standards.
Over there, and I guess what sort of like raw
milk is in some ways like not legal in certain
parts of the world.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Same deal, Okay, all right, well max of what I
could get a the more you know, Q just close
enough to keep us from getting food.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Perfect.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
And we also know that, aside from monetary restrictions, there
are other limitations that keep this from being the full
buffet experience you often see portrayed in fiction. A lot
of prison systems will only honor requests like Virginia used
to do, for food that's already available within the prison system.
(09:59):
And it's not hard to imagine why this would be
the case. Right, this is very sensitive stuff. If you
are a person who supports the death penalty in your state,
this could seem like giving an extravagant last meal could
feel like a deeply offensive favor to a genuine monster,
you know what I mean, kind of spitting in the
(10:20):
face of the surviving family members. And then let's say
you're more agnostic on the idea of capital punishment and
the death penalty, but you're very concerned about the government waste, right,
wasteful government spending, then you might see last meals as
a no brainer. Thing to cut from the budget, right, Like,
(10:44):
why am I this guy is going to die? Why
are we spending so much money per prisoner giving them
a steakhouse meal?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Well, according to Amnesty International, or actually an article on
ambscy International, California Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice
did a studies is back in two thousand and eight.
So I imagine it's risen or maybe not, because you know,
there are fewer of these cases. It does seem like
death penalty is sort of losing its luster in a way.
(11:12):
But they say, using conservative rough projections, the Commission estimates
the annual costs of the present system one hundred and
thirty seven million per year, the present system after implementation
of reforms which we're being discussed at this point two
hundred and thirty two point seven million per year, and
a system which imposes a maximum penalty of lifetime incarceration
(11:32):
instead of the death penalty only eleven point five.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Million a year. Oh, it's already very very expensive, is one.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah, Yeah, it is true. Adding some filet mignons to that,
probably a little bit, adding insult injury.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, exactly. There's a symbolic aspect to it, right that
people can find deeply offensive, and if we're being completely honest,
outside of these various caveats, there is a lot of
wiggle room. Some states still have no real constraints on
what can be defined as a last meal other than
(12:05):
the discretion of the warden and the prison staff. And
the obsession we've had or you know, not saying whom,
but some of us have had over the past few
months fundamentally traces back to this. I would argue the
idea of a moment of humanity even for the worst
of the worst, amid this inarguably broken system. Let's say, no,
(12:30):
you and me and you listening along with us at home,
are fellow ridiculous historian. Let's say we're all career prison professionals.
Now at this point we've met the absolute worst, right,
the dregs of humanity. We also probably have met people
who might be innocent victims of the system, or we've
(12:50):
met otherwise decent people that made a single life ruining mistake.
And we you know, we get to know these over
the years, right, and we know one thing for sure,
they're not walking out of the prison grounds ever again.
So maybe we can go above and beyond use our
(13:14):
own time and money to try an honor a request
of the last meal.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Absolutely, and that scenario you describe ben about like the
life and experiences of like a career prison administrator, guard, whatever,
people that actually spend time with these people and begin to,
for better or worse, see them as human beings. Maybe
it has an age as well as I think, but
I do. I do think the show OZ, which has
a bit of a dated look to it, it's a
(13:41):
very early HBO series. It explores this stuff in depth,
and it has, like all of the types of prison
inmates that you're describing, I think, portrayed in a very
humanistic and interesting way. So I would recommend giving it.
It's not for the faint of heart. It's definitely heavy.
It's not a fun show per se. But I think
it's really really good. I rewatch it every handful of years,
(14:04):
and I think it probably has aged relatively well and
feels pretty relevant, you know, especially when it comes to
this kind of conversation.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
I want to thank several authors here, Brian Price Meals
to Die For. We also want to thank Angela L.
Pagan in her article The History and Evolution of the
Last Meal. The main takeaway from this exploration if take
away there be oh god, not a takeaway joke. It's this,
(14:32):
eat every meal as though it is you get take
take out. Yeah, it took me a second. Let's see
it this way. Eat every meal as though it is
your last life is to be lived, and for a
brief time we are all here to live it together.
(14:53):
With that, we couldn't leave you on a huge doubter.
Right of the ridiculous history of last meal, the ethical quandaries,
we wanted to share some tangents in trivia some famous
last meals. Now, often people are going to talk about
serial killers when they when they talk about last meals,
(15:18):
we'll give you, well, you know what, let's give folks
just like a few of those, and then let's get
the non criminal last meals.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Maybe.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I think this is all really interesting because thus far
I don't believe we've we've given you any real world examples,
just kind of more in the area of like like this,
this is what's on the table kind of a meal
a meal pun But before Eileen Richard Mallory was executed
in two thousand and one for the first screen murder
of Richard Mallory, she just had a simple cup of coffee,
(15:52):
you know, one, one cup of coffee. You don't know
how she took it. No refills, no refills, one I
don't know. Man, I would want like an espresso, you know,
something real robust. You're right, you want the good coffee. Well,
one of those New York's best cup cups of coffee.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Oh yeah, who regulates that?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
No one, I say, But yeah, let's go to another
example from nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, a guy named Marion Albert Pruitt was a spree killer,
requested a lot of stuff he is. His order was
one of the more controversial ones. Pizza hut, stuffed crust pizza,
four burger king whoppers, French fries, fried egg plant, fried squash,
fried okra, a whole pecan pie, three two liter Pepsi bottles.
(16:41):
And then he also noted to the prison staff he
originally considered ordering an entire roast duck.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Doesn't this seem like a bit of an example of
kind of taking the piss exactly?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
That's that's one of the controversial ones because he wears
so much stuff. There was a guy named the Butcher,
or called the Butcher of Hanover Fritz vintage example right, Yeah,
and a very nasty fellow. He asked for a cigar
and a cup of coffee. And you can find a
lot of descriptions of criminal's last meals, just very very
(17:15):
horrible people. We also want to tell you about non
criminal last meals, because here's the other.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Thing, arguably non criminal.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
I mean, there's a couple on this list that did
some pretty gnarly things.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, okay, I know who you're talking about, So let's
open with him for his last meal in eighteen twenty one,
Napoleon Bonaparte eight liver and bacon chops paired with sheared
eggs and cream, saute kidneys and sherry and garlic toast
with roasted tomatoes. All right, So one of my first questions,
(17:50):
I think you had the same one.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
What are shared eggs?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
You know, that's funny, you should ask Ben. I just
googled that very thing.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
It's it's almost I think maybe a kin to like
coddled eggs or a poached egg, but it's more in
a little sou flee dish, so very French, very soft
and like in a single dish, kind of like you
crack them in there and probably bake them on low heat.
So that they're still running on top, but they are
kind of one thing. Okay, this is all of this
(18:20):
cuisine that Napoleon requested about as French as it comes.
This is some real French French delicacies.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
He was used to the good life Ernest hemmy way
at a New York strip with caesar salad and a
baked potato and then probably a lot of wine. And
we owe our buddy Max the next one.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
We sure do.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
On April fourteenth, eighteen sixty five, President Abraham Lincoln sat
down for about as American a meal as one could
imagine at the time. He enjoyed a roast Virginia fowl.
Now I'm sorry, what is like? Is this a quail?
Is this a chicken? A fowl is a very all
encompassing term. It's kind of an umbrella term. Yeah, But
(19:05):
with we talked about this off off air ben chestnut stuffing,
which is still a very popular Americana classic Thanksgiving preparation,
you know, like sort of like walnut stuffing or including nuts,
but chestn roasted chestnuts in the stuffing, baked yams and cauliflower.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
With cheese sauce, which I guess I thought was a much.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
More like modern kind of health Golden Corral type dish,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah, I felt like maybe it was a less carbon
heavy alternative to macc and cheese. But yeah, he liked
the cauliflower, he liked the cheese sauce, and who doesn't
love colding Corral for everybody out.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Chocolate waterfall me, it's not sanitary, all don't do it,
it's not good, but do check out?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Was it Golden Corral who had the training video that
went viral?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Where because the old country buffet, which was a favorite
of my youth?
Speaker 3 (20:04):
How's how's just this the sports.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Ball team doing? Hey oh hot out there today, isn't it?
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Ha ha ha? All right?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Cutting your cutting your your meat for.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
You you're like pot roasts or whatever.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Children are a very important addition to our Golden Corral
family and often determine what restaurant choices parents will make,
So make sure to have a little conversation for them
to so, uh what what great are you in?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Exactly?
Speaker 3 (20:31):
It real that that video free in my please let's
flee ecliped.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
As a carver, you spend a little more time with
guests their team members. That means you have a great
chance to make them feel welcome and appreciated. Let's take
a closer look at greeting guests. Every conversation you hold
with guests should.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Begin something like this.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Amy once you've greeted the guest, start a brief conversation.
Try asking a question the guest can answer innocents or two.
You might ask something like this, is.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
It still hot out there?
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Did you catch a game last night?
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Have you chriv with mosagnya? It's my favorite?
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Don't forget to hold quick conversations with our younger guests, too,
So start conversations with children by saying.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Something like this, what grade are you in at school?
Have you decided what dessert you're going to have?
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Do you like hot bud Sundays? There it is Eddy's
slicing Pride?
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Rib Hey, what graty? Hello, little boy?
Speaker 2 (21:31):
It's so strange?
Speaker 3 (21:32):
And what do you want for Christmas?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Because the guys the guy's eyes are kind of dead,
like a little too close together.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
I'm sorry, I don't know. Yeah, there's something off, but.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
He's like looking back and forth as though someone's about
to compromise his real identity.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Does appear that way.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
He looks intensely uncomfortable, and we speaking in pop culture,
we want to give you a story of a tremendously
controversial commercial that came out in nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, Pizza Hut ran with a commercial where a prisoner
sentenced to death orders Pizza Hut as his last meal.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
This is who green lit this.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
This is like, oh my goodness, I mean that is
really pretty tasteless. The prisoner in the commercial gets pardoned
at the last minute, okay, like, what are you playing
at here? Pizza Hut eighty five and then I believe
the inmate that we mentioned that got Pizza Hut stuff
Cruss wasn't until ninety nine, but the ad was nevertheless
(22:33):
particularly upsetting two viewers in South Carolina, where a man
who recently was on death row had ordered pizza for
his last meal before his execution. It was taken off
the air, and I bet you there's not even YouTube
evidence of this. Maybe there is, I don't believe so though.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
It's just soulless, you know, it's bad taste. One of
the best books on famous last meals we mentioned previously
is Meals to Die For by Brian D.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Price.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Price was formerly an inmate assigned to the Walls Unit
in Huntsville, Texas, and during his ten years there, he
prepared almost two hundred last meals for incarcerated people. His
book includes something like forty four different recipes as well.
(23:21):
It's a very specific read, and it is one of
the best books because it's by someone with firsthand experience.
But we wanted to end with this, Folks, We have
asked many friends and colleagues for their ideal last meals.
We want to give you a few. No, let's start
(23:42):
with our good friend Annie Reese, the co host of
our food show Saver.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Yeah, and a bit of a foodie. One of three categories.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
And I love this because I thought I was going
to mention this the idea of nostalgia, right, because that's
kind of where mine's going to fall. Peanut butter and
jelly with mac and cheese. Then there's second end. A
second category, a seafood mushroom pasta I had with a
calorie count that will make you swoon, or something I
want all the time, like tuna, sashimi or sushi in general,
(24:12):
and pair it with a nice wine. Yeah. No word
on whether it's a kianti kanti A sorry edie for
any Missophonia. People out there, please forgive me. Edie just
said a nice wine.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
And then our pals Jack O'Brien and Miles Gray at
The Daily's I guys said this. Jack said either fried
chicken or a sloppy cheese smash burger and shout out
to oh wait.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
No, you made your face. You got it. Only that,
Miles is a thing that we've also talked about off
off mic and and this it didn't come up because
it's honestly too ridiculous to ever work.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
But Adam Friedland, who used to be on I think
it was.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Chopout Trap House Podcast and and and others, he's got
a bit series that he's been doing recently.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
I think he stopped doing it.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
But he was interviewing some comic who suggested that they
were talking about last meals, and the comic who's I
apologize name escaped to me said that he would ask
to eat the electric chair. Uh he said a time, yeah,
you know, in the in the hopes of staying his execution.
And then again, his whole joke was contingent on this
(25:23):
myth of like you just magically get whatever you want
and there's nothing's off limits. And then once they reset it.
Because of the ada fixed the electric chair, you ask
for it again. Obviously that's absurd on a couple of levels.
But Miles was was kind of barking up the same
electric chair there in saying that he would keep changing
his mind and dithering to delay execution. I love it.
(25:46):
Also classic Miles.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
He's always playing. He's playing three D chess.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Everybody who plays chess has played three D chess.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Though, Yeah, it's that.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Okay, thank you, I'll use that expression a forty Yes, sure,
that's a very good point.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Good ding dong.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I'll tell you who's not a ding dong though. Lauren
Vogelbaum over at Saver, and he's co host who said
something comforting nineteen eighties Americana interesting gets much maligned. Eighties
cuisine gets much maligned in some of these foodie circles.
So I appreciate Lauren standing up for eighties cuisine. Pasta
alfredo or a steak with mashed potatoes and asparagus, or
(26:33):
some good seared scallops.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
I do love a good seared scalps. You're gonna be careful.
You can overcook them really so easily.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, I believe your old man got into the conversation too.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
No one was safe, no worry.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yeah, our special guest, Potter Familius, said, Colonel. Yeah, the
colonel said, dessert on dessert, vanilla ice cream finished with
a second course of flaud or crapon breulat quote, since
you don't have to worry about the calories. Also no toppings.
(27:09):
Very clear about that, called himself a somewhat militant vanilla
ice cream purist.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Well, you know, vanilla ice cream at its best is
anything but what the term vanilla has come to represent.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
You know, I would.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Argue, right, yeah, exactly, And let's not forget that vanilla
back in the day was this incredibly strange and high class.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Rarefied right, talked about it very recently.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I check out if you missed it, our episode on
artificial flavorings and how you know, how dear that substance was,
and how you know, to the point where you just
couldn't get enough of it and they had to like
figure out how to make some version of it that
they could mass produce and sell because people just loved
it so damn much. Our dear dear friend and colleague
Matt Frederick over it. Stuff they don't want you to
know man after my own heart, culinarily speaking, because I
(27:57):
love this dish as well. But he is a bit
of a spice hound, so he wants his green curry
tie Hot, which if you're not familiar, if you go
to a Thai restaurant, they'll have the star system oftentimes
or the Pepper system, you know, and then there's one
that's off the charts, and that's usually referred to as
tye Hot.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
And you know, oftentimes if you go in there and
order it that.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Way, you will get a little bit of a Really
that's really what that's really what Matt wants. Then, yeah,
that is really what he wants.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
When we asked him, hey, do you want rice with
that as well, he specifically said no, I'll just drink
it like a fine soup.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
A fine soup, said, like a true bone vivante.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
And Max Williams, our long suffering super producer who will
return with us soon. He said that he would want
a large caesar salad and two slices of New York
style pizza so that it doesn't even have to be
particularly good, just big and floppy and just cheese too.
Normally he'd want toppings, but he feels like that would
(28:57):
take attention away from the salad. He wants his last
meal to be very balanced.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
And in classic we know you're listening man, In classic
Max fashion, he continued, and he says, the salad is
the main dish. Let's not get this s twisted. I
may not even finish the pizza, but I am eating
a F word salad over here. Don't want anyone thinking
(29:27):
I'm some big F word health nut or something and
going out with just a salad. But truthfully, the salad
is the only part I care about.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
That's wild.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
See now this is a really interesting example of last meal.
As Rorshach tests, Max didn't even have to explain all
of that to us. He did do us that courtesy.
But I think, honestly, the way he said it originally
said it all. I like the emphatic nature. No, Max
is nothing if not emphatic. That's true. That is very
much our all the freight train.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
We also want to give a shout out to our
colleagues John Wallzac and Chris Brown, good friends of our
pal Paul Decant, the masterminds behind Missing the Missing series
right Missing in Alaska, Missy on nine to eleven. Their
newest show is Missing in Arizona, which is live now
(30:21):
wherever you want to find your favorite.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Shows, Ben, and then give yourself a little credit executive
producer of this and very involved in the process too.
Oh I will.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I will help out with with some scripts. But this
is really Paul's baby.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Like you.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
This is also something that you've been shepherding along all
the while, and I'm very excited to check it out.
So please do listen to Missing in Arizona wherever you
get your fine podcast soups. There it is. Oh I
love it, Thank you so much. We asked.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
We asked our buddy John Wallzac, the host of Missing,
and John said the following, I'm going to say, for
final meal appetizer, shrimp cocktail made a box combo from
raising canes, no coalslaw extra fries, and he said, side
truffle mat from somewhere, and then he gets really specific
(31:14):
with the dessert.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Okay, you gotta hear it.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
I do.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Can I just really quickly say though, that I have
only recently been introduced to the magic of a really
good shrimp cocktail. Oh yeah, I was out in Vegas
and we went to like one of those old timey steakhouses,
and like a really solid shrimp cocktail is.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
A thing of beauty.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
And actually, now that he's saying that, I might revise
mine or add at it as an.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
App Yeah, I like to because John is methodical, so
he of course he's thinking deservasive appetizer made and side.
Here's the dessert, he says, dessert a guava cheesecake milkshake
from Morgenstern's in New York City and a pint of
Jenny's brown butter almond brittle ice cream.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Know, that's a fabulous ice cream. We have Jenni Cere Atlanta.
That is a really solid ice cream pick.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
I was actually gonna say about was it because not Kazinski,
the Oklahoma City bomber guy. He he had two pints
of the same ice cream. I would have had one
pint of two different ones. Whull variety in there. You know,
that's a really good point.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
And then also on the Missing Team, producer Chris Brown says,
I'm going to go with the gorge fest. Here probably
be a peanut butter bacon burger, a sider fries, and
mac and cheese for dessert. A stack of amazing pancakes
that I will eat very slowly, right.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Once and again, a little strategy there inevitable.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
But now we have to give a shout out to you, sir.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
We are going to put this to bed because I've
been bugging you and Matt and pretty much everybody we
know about this question. But I really liked your answer
and when you when you gave me your answer, you
thought this out and you were pretty definitive about it.
And then you came back because you reached a crossroad
(33:14):
with potatoes in particular.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Right, yeah, I did.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
And for me, the part of this that I that
I talked to you about definitely squarely falls under the
nostalgic category because you know, I've I've been obsessed with this,
with the Big Lebowski and and just Los Angeles lore
and cult server since I was a kid, and in
and out Burger comes up a lot and in in
the Big Lebowski and it's one of those things that
you just can't get outside certain parts of the country,
(33:40):
and it's very much like an LA thing.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
LA is a real burger town. And since then, when I.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Was a kid, I've had uh the privilege and pleasure
of going to Los Angeles a lot. We've been there
together multiple times, and every time I go, there's an
in and out right by the airport. I hit that
up and and you know, had it multiple times, and
it really is about as good as they say. The
in and out double double animal style, which is the
off menu way of getting your burger, which is basically
(34:07):
just with like a kind of a Thousand Island dressing
type situation, a saucy sauce burger sauce kind of thing.
But you're right, Ben, I have long been a defender
of the in and out shoe string fries. They are
really skinny and really crispy and very lightly dare I say, unsalted,
But every time I bring it up, I've been kind
of it's been pointed out to me that they're kind
(34:29):
of much maligned. Recently sort of adjusted my position on them,
and I think I would get my fries flown in
from elsewhere.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Some kind of truffle fry.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
There's a really good spot here in Atlanta called Le
Petite Marche, Yeah, pursed area. I believe it's a little
Dillogy kind of area here in and it's really good
and they do these trufy seasoned fries with parmesan that
are just freaking phenomenal. So as long as I was
getting executed here in Atlanta, that hopefully fall under the
(35:01):
you know, the terms of service.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
What you might call.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, but then I would lead off though with a
good shrimp cocktail. And then for a dessert, I like
that Superman ice cream and that's nostalgic too. Really just
tastes like vanilla. But it's like it's like they smashed
up a bunch of smurfs and made an ice.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Cream out of them.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
How do they do it? How do they get those
all those colors. I'm a sucker for artificial color, but
that's I think that would be me. Yeah, shrimp cocktail
from Amazing steakhouse, double double animal style truffle fries, and
Superman ice cream.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Perfect poetry, folks. I just have to give credit where
it's due.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Nol.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
I love how you were one of the people who said,
hang on, let me think about it, and you treated
this question with the importance it deserves. And then you
came back and you said you came back with like
breaking news about the French fries and on the edge
of their seat about my hot takes on.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Freaking I was that's why we hang out, but I
think it is too.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
But as we've mentioned at the top of the show
and a few times since Paul Michigan controlled decand the
long suffering super producer of stuff they don't want you
to know, is sitting in today for Max, who is away,
and we actually just put the question to him not
too long ago, and I'm fully behind his response.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Ah, yes, Paul, DEC and the better half of the
slate that Paul that I have. Paul says, if money
is no object, I'd get a five y goose steak. Paul,
you have chosen wisely, of course. And then you say,
look if there, if money is an object, I would
have a quarter pounder with cheese fries at Coca Cola.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
And with that, thank you, Paul. Wait a minute, no, no, no, no,
you're not getting out of this, Ben. You can't play
these games with us and not give us your last meal.
Come on, man, Well you saw the Frank beat me
here Max. You saw the crazy ass note I put
in there. I don't know, Okay, you.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Know, still on the still on the fence. I'm not
as definitive as you guys. I have such a tough
time choosing, you know, I might need a little more time,
and maybe that's the heart of the episode.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Here for the record, the message to say, you'll never
catch him, You'll never catch you, never take him in
alive Coppers. Yeah, it's a it's a little wrote that
in a weird place, but folks, thank you so much
for tuning in.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Big, big things of course, to our super producer mister
Max Williams, to our guest producer Paul Wig.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Decad Paul Decadent decades.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
There it is big, big Thanks to Alex Williams who
composed our track.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Huge thanks to Jonathan Strickland, the Quister, A J.
Speaker 5 (37:59):
Maham, Jacob's the Puzzler, Christopherraciotis needs Jeff Coats here in spirit,
and of course to you Ben, what a what a
rop what a journey into the heart of darkness and deliciousness,
the heart and the belly of darkness.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
There it is, there, it is.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Oh, I've got to send you a picture of this, uh,
this weird crap thing I got into.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
We'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Books. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much
for tuning in. This is part two of our Ridiculous
History of Last Meals.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
And if I may extend a heartfelt apology to Jonathan
trick Let the Quist for implying that you would eat
human flesh for his last meal. I hope you know
that was a joke. Jonathan's a pescatarian. I don't think
humans fall into that range of cuisine for not for
our pelic quist, or at least it could be that
lab grown artificial human meat that isn't really thingfu. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
We also want to say a big, big thing shout
out to our guest producer Paul Wygoo as well as
our producer mister Max Williams. You're an old brown. I'm
been bowling. This is part two of our series. And
uh man, this is a roller coaster.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Speaking of roller coaster, let's roll that beautiful bean footage.
This notion that it's like somehow some kind of rorshack
tests you know, I guess into the psyche of of
of this individual, or at the very least people are
(01:45):
like you know, as is evidenced by the absolute absurd
in my opinion, popularity of true crime. People are just
like absolutely obsessed with like humanizing the inhuman, you know
what I mean, like like in some way getting inside
the mind of a cold killer. And when you realize
that they like they like pizza too. I like pizza,
(02:06):
you know. I mean, maybe I'm overstating it or being
a little globe, but I do feel like that obsession
with this stuff is a bit toxic, you know, and
it's not my favorite. And you know, when we talk
about this stuff on stuff they don't want you to know,
or on this show, it comes up from time to time.
We're never trying to like, I.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Don't know, like or whatever.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
You're exploited. And this does inherently feel the obsession with
this a little exploitive.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah, well, we're talking about you know, absolute monsters, right,
spree killers, mass murderers, serial murderers. This, this does become
red meat for the public because people are interested in
food and crime. And you nailed it, man, There's this
(02:55):
aspect of it that gets really close to a rorshack
test or in rams or astrology, reading tea leaves and saying,
how can I what if any unique insight does this
give us about someone like John Wayne Gacy asked for
shrimp fried chicken, french fries and a pound of strawberries.
(03:17):
It's similar, you know, it's similar to the gray market
trade in serial killer memorabilia a little bit, you know
what I mean?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah, And like you know, I mean, no, I guess food.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I don't know if it was McDonald's french fry and
someone got there there those things never decay.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
I don't know if you know this, but there was.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I believe I might have even been in that pretty
debunked documentary Supersized Me, where it turns out Morgan Spurlock,
who did pass away recently, no Shae on the on
the deceased, but there were some things about that that
were very disingenuous in terms of like his you know,
expose of McDonald's or whatever. But one thing that always
sticks stuck with me and I have found to be
true is that McDonald's french fries don't like, they don't rot,
(03:59):
they don't kay, they don't mold, they just kind of crystallized.
So someone could have gotten their hands. I wanted John
Wayne Gacy's left over French fries. And like you know,
sold it for a bunch of money on the gray market.
Oh that's terrible. Oh gosh, that is terrible. I did
not think of that.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
We also know Timothy McVeigh, the infamous bomber ate two
pints of mint chocolate chip ice cream. There is one
story that stood out to me speaking of the humanity
sometimes found in these broken systems. A convict in Tennessee
named Philip Workman was on death row and he requested
(04:40):
that he requested a last meal, not for himself. He
wanted vegetarian pizzas to be distributed to homeless shelters in Nashville, Tennessee.
The prison officials denied his request, but local activist groups
got together and they handed out hundreds of pizzas to
Nashville homeless shelters, as a story in CNN in two
(05:05):
thousand and seven by Ashley fans fan tz, So do.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Check that out.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
We know there are a lot of limits in multiple states.
For instance, in Oklahoma, the laws on the books, because
I believe they stand now say quote, reasonable effort should
be made to accommodate a request which shall not exceed
twenty five dollars.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Dang no boluga caviar for old Timmy McVeigh. Yes, God,
he got the mint chocolate chip. Though. How do you
feel about mint chocolate chip ice cream? Ben, I'm okay
with it. It's not ever going to be my favorite, but
I feel the same way. Yeah, it gives toothpaste a
(05:51):
little bit. There's something in my mind that always goes
to like I'm literally consuming toothpaste with little studs of
chocolate in it, you know, But each there, I.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Wonder if I don't know this, I would have to
look into it further. But I wonder if Timothy McVeigh
was a smoker, and if so, maybe the mental or
the strong mint had some kind of.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Appeal to him. Maybe so Also to get in front
of this question, yes, historically, a lot of people ask
for tobacco, a lot of people ask for booze, some
variety of alcohol. You know. It's again, it's that old Uh,
it's that old film.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Trope, right, firing squad and the firing cigare.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Cigarette and only one of the people shooting at you
has a bullet in their rifle. Right, so you can
hide your sin from God.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Like the Orderlagne, right, Exactly, a lot of ethical quandaries
with food and finality, Food and finality, that's what we're
It makes me think of the butter tax, you know,
like all of this these notions there history of like
what can we do to trick God into thinking that
we are somehow more pious than we actually are? And
(07:07):
that in and of itself fields kind of sacrilegious, doesn't it?
The notion that we could fool God or like hide
from God, not how it works. I love it.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I love the idea that you fundamentally believe in this
all powerful, all knowing, like omniscient, omnipotent entity that is
just a sucker for loopholes.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, exactly, you can't see through that cloth over your head,
you know, shrudge when you munch down on that tiny bird.
But yeah, Florida Back to Florida has a bit of
a moralistic kind of axiom built into their proceedings to
avoid extravagance. They're a little less cheap than Oklahoma, though
(07:55):
their last meal requests cannot exceed forty dollars must be
available to buy locally, so no imported.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
You know, fine cheeses or what have you.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
No kazu marzu for you, right, which would be a
very strange thing to request.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
What is that? That's the that's the cheese that with
the maggots. Yeah, yeah, you got to be kind of
in the Sardinian underground.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
What's illegal?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
It's it's like, yeah, I mean, it's just because it's
like you know also, I mean when I was in Spain,
I kind of forgot this. I think I knew it
at some point, but like certain the way they make
their yamm over there, like the really really fancy ham,
the processes that they use over there make it illegal
to bring it back to the States. Oh. I went
(08:45):
to like a little little stand that was selling and
I bought like some pre packet stuff, and the butcher
was kind enough to remind me or tell me for
the first time. Like I say, again I've known in
the past that he said, don't bring that on your
carry on, don't bring that on the plane. I was like, oh, bro,
I'm gonna that here. I'm here for a little bit.
But I think that's very interesting. Yeah, that's news to me.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
So wait, because you can buy like Iberian ham here
in the States, right.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
But it's different when you buy it over there. The
processes are different, they're under a different set of standards.
Over there, and I guess what sort of like raw
milk is in some ways like not legal in certain
parts of the world.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Same deal, Okay, all right, well max of what I
could get a the more you know, Q just close
enough to keep us from getting food.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Perfect.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
And we also know that, aside from monetary restrictions, there
are other limitations that keep this from being the full
buffet experience you often see portrayed in fiction. A lot
of prison systems will only honor requests like Virginia used
to do, for food that's already available within the prison system.
(09:59):
And it's not hard to imagine why this would be
the case. Right, this is very sensitive stuff. If you
are a person who supports the death penalty in your state,
this could seem like giving an extravagant last meal could
feel like a deeply offensive favor to a genuine monster,
you know what I mean, kind of spitting in the
(10:20):
face of the surviving family members. And then let's say
you're more agnostic on the idea of capital punishment and
the death penalty, but you're very concerned about the government waste, right,
wasteful government spending, then you might see last meals as
a no brainer. Thing to cut from the budget, right, Like,
(10:44):
why am I this guy is going to die? Why
are we spending so much money per prisoner giving them
a steakhouse meal?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Well, according to Amnesty International, or actually an article on
ambscy International, California Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice
did a studies is back in two thousand and eight.
So I imagine it's risen or maybe not, because you know,
there are fewer of these cases. It does seem like
death penalty is sort of losing its luster in a way.
(11:12):
But they say, using conservative rough projections, the Commission estimates
the annual costs of the present system one hundred and
thirty seven million per year, the present system after implementation
of reforms which we're being discussed at this point two
hundred and thirty two point seven million per year, and
a system which imposes a maximum penalty of lifetime incarceration
(11:32):
instead of the death penalty only eleven point five.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Million a year. Oh, it's already very very expensive, is one.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah, Yeah, it is true. Adding some filet mignons to that,
probably a little bit, adding insult injury.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, exactly. There's a symbolic aspect to it, right that
people can find deeply offensive, and if we're being completely honest,
outside of these various caveats, there is a lot of
wiggle room. Some states still have no real constraints on
what can be defined as a last meal other than
(12:05):
the discretion of the warden and the prison staff. And
the obsession we've had or you know, not saying whom,
but some of us have had over the past few
months fundamentally traces back to this. I would argue the
idea of a moment of humanity even for the worst
of the worst, amid this inarguably broken system. Let's say, no,
(12:30):
you and me and you listening along with us at home,
are fellow ridiculous historian. Let's say we're all career prison professionals.
Now at this point we've met the absolute worst, right,
the dregs of humanity. We also probably have met people
who might be innocent victims of the system, or we've
(12:50):
met otherwise decent people that made a single life ruining mistake.
And we you know, we get to know these over
the years, right, and we know one thing for sure,
they're not walking out of the prison grounds ever again.
So maybe we can go above and beyond use our
(13:14):
own time and money to try an honor a request
of the last meal.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Absolutely, and that scenario you describe ben about like the
life and experiences of like a career prison administrator, guard, whatever,
people that actually spend time with these people and begin to,
for better or worse, see them as human beings. Maybe
it has an age as well as I think, but
I do. I do think the show OZ, which has
a bit of a dated look to it, it's a
(13:41):
very early HBO series. It explores this stuff in depth,
and it has, like all of the types of prison
inmates that you're describing, I think, portrayed in a very
humanistic and interesting way. So I would recommend giving it.
It's not for the faint of heart. It's definitely heavy.
It's not a fun show per se. But I think
it's really really good. I rewatch it every handful of years,
(14:04):
and I think it probably has aged relatively well and
feels pretty relevant, you know, especially when it comes to
this kind of conversation.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
I want to thank several authors here, Brian Price Meals
to Die For. We also want to thank Angela L.
Pagan in her article The History and Evolution of the
Last Meal. The main takeaway from this exploration if take
away there be oh god, not a takeaway joke. It's this,
(14:32):
eat every meal as though it is you get take
take out. Yeah, it took me a second. Let's see
it this way. Eat every meal as though it is
your last life is to be lived, and for a
brief time we are all here to live it together.
(14:53):
With that, we couldn't leave you on a huge doubter.
Right of the ridiculous history of last meal, the ethical quandaries,
we wanted to share some tangents in trivia some famous
last meals. Now, often people are going to talk about
serial killers when they when they talk about last meals,
(15:18):
we'll give you, well, you know what, let's give folks
just like a few of those, and then let's get
the non criminal last meals.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Maybe.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I think this is all really interesting because thus far
I don't believe we've we've given you any real world examples,
just kind of more in the area of like like this,
this is what's on the table kind of a meal
a meal pun But before Eileen Richard Mallory was executed
in two thousand and one for the first screen murder
of Richard Mallory, she just had a simple cup of coffee,
(15:52):
you know, one, one cup of coffee. You don't know
how she took it. No refills, no refills, one I
don't know. Man, I would want like an espresso, you know,
something real robust. You're right, you want the good coffee. Well,
one of those New York's best cup cups of coffee.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Oh yeah, who regulates that?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
No one, I say, But yeah, let's go to another
example from nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, a guy named Marion Albert Pruitt was a spree killer,
requested a lot of stuff he is. His order was
one of the more controversial ones. Pizza hut, stuffed crust pizza,
four burger king whoppers, French fries, fried egg plant, fried squash,
fried okra, a whole pecan pie, three two liter Pepsi bottles.
(16:41):
And then he also noted to the prison staff he
originally considered ordering an entire roast duck.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Doesn't this seem like a bit of an example of
kind of taking the piss exactly?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
That's that's one of the controversial ones because he wears
so much stuff. There was a guy named the Butcher,
or called the Butcher of Hanover Fritz vintage example right, Yeah,
and a very nasty fellow. He asked for a cigar
and a cup of coffee. And you can find a
lot of descriptions of criminal's last meals, just very very
(17:15):
horrible people. We also want to tell you about non
criminal last meals, because here's the other.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Thing, arguably non criminal.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
I mean, there's a couple on this list that did
some pretty gnarly things.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, okay, I know who you're talking about, So let's
open with him for his last meal in eighteen twenty one,
Napoleon Bonaparte eight liver and bacon chops paired with sheared
eggs and cream, saute kidneys and sherry and garlic toast
with roasted tomatoes. All right, So one of my first questions,
(17:50):
I think you had the same one.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
What are shared eggs?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
You know, that's funny, you should ask Ben. I just
googled that very thing.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
It's it's almost I think maybe a kin to like
coddled eggs or a poached egg, but it's more in
a little sou flee dish, so very French, very soft
and like in a single dish, kind of like you
crack them in there and probably bake them on low heat.
So that they're still running on top, but they are
kind of one thing. Okay, this is all of this
(18:20):
cuisine that Napoleon requested about as French as it comes.
This is some real French French delicacies.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
He was used to the good life Ernest hemmy way
at a New York strip with caesar salad and a
baked potato and then probably a lot of wine. And
we owe our buddy Max the next one.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
We sure do.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
On April fourteenth, eighteen sixty five, President Abraham Lincoln sat
down for about as American a meal as one could
imagine at the time. He enjoyed a roast Virginia fowl.
Now I'm sorry, what is like? Is this a quail?
Is this a chicken? A fowl is a very all
encompassing term. It's kind of an umbrella term. Yeah, But
(19:05):
with we talked about this off off air ben chestnut stuffing,
which is still a very popular Americana classic Thanksgiving preparation,
you know, like sort of like walnut stuffing or including nuts,
but chestn roasted chestnuts in the stuffing, baked yams and cauliflower.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
With cheese sauce, which I guess I thought was a much.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
More like modern kind of health Golden Corral type dish,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah, I felt like maybe it was a less carbon
heavy alternative to macc and cheese. But yeah, he liked
the cauliflower, he liked the cheese sauce, and who doesn't
love colding Corral for everybody out.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Chocolate waterfall me, it's not sanitary, all don't do it,
it's not good, but do check out?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Was it Golden Corral who had the training video that
went viral?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Where because the old country buffet, which was a favorite
of my youth?
Speaker 3 (20:04):
How's how's just this the sports.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Ball team doing? Hey oh hot out there today, isn't it?
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Ha ha ha? All right?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Cutting your cutting your your meat for.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
You you're like pot roasts or whatever.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Children are a very important addition to our Golden Corral
family and often determine what restaurant choices parents will make,
So make sure to have a little conversation for them
to so, uh what what great are you in?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Exactly?
Speaker 3 (20:31):
It real that that video free in my please let's
flee ecliped.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
As a carver, you spend a little more time with
guests their team members. That means you have a great
chance to make them feel welcome and appreciated. Let's take
a closer look at greeting guests. Every conversation you hold
with guests should.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Begin something like this.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Amy once you've greeted the guest, start a brief conversation.
Try asking a question the guest can answer innocents or two.
You might ask something like this, is.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
It still hot out there?
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Did you catch a game last night?
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Have you chriv with mosagnya? It's my favorite?
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Don't forget to hold quick conversations with our younger guests, too,
So start conversations with children by saying.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Something like this, what grade are you in at school?
Have you decided what dessert you're going to have?
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Do you like hot bud Sundays? There it is Eddy's
slicing Pride?
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Rib Hey, what graty? Hello, little boy?
Speaker 2 (21:31):
It's so strange?
Speaker 3 (21:32):
And what do you want for Christmas?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Because the guys the guy's eyes are kind of dead,
like a little too close together.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
I'm sorry, I don't know. Yeah, there's something off, but.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
He's like looking back and forth as though someone's about
to compromise his real identity.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Does appear that way.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
He looks intensely uncomfortable, and we speaking in pop culture,
we want to give you a story of a tremendously
controversial commercial that came out in nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, Pizza Hut ran with a commercial where a prisoner
sentenced to death orders Pizza Hut as his last meal.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
This is who green lit this.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
This is like, oh my goodness, I mean that is
really pretty tasteless. The prisoner in the commercial gets pardoned
at the last minute, okay, like, what are you playing
at here? Pizza Hut eighty five and then I believe
the inmate that we mentioned that got Pizza Hut stuff
Cruss wasn't until ninety nine, but the ad was nevertheless
(22:33):
particularly upsetting two viewers in South Carolina, where a man
who recently was on death row had ordered pizza for
his last meal before his execution. It was taken off
the air, and I bet you there's not even YouTube
evidence of this. Maybe there is, I don't believe so though.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
It's just soulless, you know, it's bad taste. One of
the best books on famous last meals we mentioned previously
is Meals to Die For by Brian D.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Price.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Price was formerly an inmate assigned to the Walls Unit
in Huntsville, Texas, and during his ten years there, he
prepared almost two hundred last meals for incarcerated people. His
book includes something like forty four different recipes as well.
(23:21):
It's a very specific read, and it is one of
the best books because it's by someone with firsthand experience.
But we wanted to end with this, Folks, We have
asked many friends and colleagues for their ideal last meals.
We want to give you a few. No, let's start
(23:42):
with our good friend Annie Reese, the co host of
our food show Saver.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Yeah, and a bit of a foodie. One of three categories.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
And I love this because I thought I was going
to mention this the idea of nostalgia, right, because that's
kind of where mine's going to fall. Peanut butter and
jelly with mac and cheese. Then there's second end. A
second category, a seafood mushroom pasta I had with a
calorie count that will make you swoon, or something I
want all the time, like tuna, sashimi or sushi in general,
(24:12):
and pair it with a nice wine. Yeah. No word
on whether it's a kianti kanti A sorry edie for
any Missophonia. People out there, please forgive me. Edie just
said a nice wine.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
And then our pals Jack O'Brien and Miles Gray at
The Daily's I guys said this. Jack said either fried
chicken or a sloppy cheese smash burger and shout out
to oh wait.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
No, you made your face. You got it. Only that,
Miles is a thing that we've also talked about off
off mic and and this it didn't come up because
it's honestly too ridiculous to ever work.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
But Adam Friedland, who used to be on I think
it was.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Chopout Trap House Podcast and and and others, he's got
a bit series that he's been doing recently.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
I think he stopped doing it.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
But he was interviewing some comic who suggested that they
were talking about last meals, and the comic who's I
apologize name escaped to me said that he would ask
to eat the electric chair. Uh he said a time, yeah,
you know, in the in the hopes of staying his execution.
And then again, his whole joke was contingent on this
(25:23):
myth of like you just magically get whatever you want
and there's nothing's off limits. And then once they reset it.
Because of the ada fixed the electric chair, you ask
for it again. Obviously that's absurd on a couple of levels.
But Miles was was kind of barking up the same
electric chair there in saying that he would keep changing
his mind and dithering to delay execution. I love it.
(25:46):
Also classic Miles.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
He's always playing. He's playing three D chess.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Everybody who plays chess has played three D chess.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Though, Yeah, it's that.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Okay, thank you, I'll use that expression a forty Yes, sure,
that's a very good point.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Good ding dong.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I'll tell you who's not a ding dong though. Lauren
Vogelbaum over at Saver, and he's co host who said
something comforting nineteen eighties Americana interesting gets much maligned. Eighties
cuisine gets much maligned in some of these foodie circles.
So I appreciate Lauren standing up for eighties cuisine. Pasta
alfredo or a steak with mashed potatoes and asparagus, or
(26:33):
some good seared scallops.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
I do love a good seared scalps. You're gonna be careful.
You can overcook them really so easily.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, I believe your old man got into the conversation too.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
No one was safe, no worry.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yeah, our special guest, Potter Familius, said, Colonel. Yeah, the
colonel said, dessert on dessert, vanilla ice cream finished with
a second course of flaud or crapon breulat quote, since
you don't have to worry about the calories. Also no toppings.
(27:09):
Very clear about that, called himself a somewhat militant vanilla
ice cream purist.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Well, you know, vanilla ice cream at its best is
anything but what the term vanilla has come to represent.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
You know, I would.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Argue, right, yeah, exactly, And let's not forget that vanilla
back in the day was this incredibly strange and high class.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Rarefied right, talked about it very recently.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I check out if you missed it, our episode on
artificial flavorings and how you know, how dear that substance was,
and how you know, to the point where you just
couldn't get enough of it and they had to like
figure out how to make some version of it that
they could mass produce and sell because people just loved
it so damn much. Our dear dear friend and colleague
Matt Frederick over it. Stuff they don't want you to
know man after my own heart, culinarily speaking, because I
(27:57):
love this dish as well. But he is a bit
of a spice hound, so he wants his green curry
tie Hot, which if you're not familiar, if you go
to a Thai restaurant, they'll have the star system oftentimes
or the Pepper system, you know, and then there's one
that's off the charts, and that's usually referred to as
tye Hot.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
And you know, oftentimes if you go in there and
order it that.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Way, you will get a little bit of a Really
that's really what that's really what Matt wants. Then, yeah,
that is really what he wants.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
When we asked him, hey, do you want rice with
that as well, he specifically said no, I'll just drink
it like a fine soup.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
A fine soup, said, like a true bone vivante.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
And Max Williams, our long suffering super producer who will
return with us soon. He said that he would want
a large caesar salad and two slices of New York
style pizza so that it doesn't even have to be
particularly good, just big and floppy and just cheese too.
Normally he'd want toppings, but he feels like that would
(28:57):
take attention away from the salad. He wants his last
meal to be very balanced.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
And in classic we know you're listening man, In classic
Max fashion, he continued, and he says, the salad is
the main dish. Let's not get this s twisted. I
may not even finish the pizza, but I am eating
a F word salad over here. Don't want anyone thinking
(29:27):
I'm some big F word health nut or something and
going out with just a salad. But truthfully, the salad
is the only part I care about.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
That's wild.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
See now this is a really interesting example of last meal.
As Rorshach tests, Max didn't even have to explain all
of that to us. He did do us that courtesy.
But I think, honestly, the way he said it originally
said it all. I like the emphatic nature. No, Max
is nothing if not emphatic. That's true. That is very
much our all the freight train.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
We also want to give a shout out to our
colleagues John Wallzac and Chris Brown, good friends of our
pal Paul Decant, the masterminds behind Missing the Missing series
right Missing in Alaska, Missy on nine to eleven. Their
newest show is Missing in Arizona, which is live now
(30:21):
wherever you want to find your favorite.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Shows, Ben, and then give yourself a little credit executive
producer of this and very involved in the process too.
Oh I will.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I will help out with with some scripts. But this
is really Paul's baby.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Like you.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
This is also something that you've been shepherding along all
the while, and I'm very excited to check it out.
So please do listen to Missing in Arizona wherever you
get your fine podcast soups. There it is. Oh I
love it, Thank you so much. We asked.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
We asked our buddy John Wallzac, the host of Missing,
and John said the following, I'm going to say, for
final meal appetizer, shrimp cocktail made a box combo from
raising canes, no coalslaw extra fries, and he said, side
truffle mat from somewhere, and then he gets really specific
(31:14):
with the dessert.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Okay, you gotta hear it.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
I do.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Can I just really quickly say though, that I have
only recently been introduced to the magic of a really
good shrimp cocktail. Oh yeah, I was out in Vegas
and we went to like one of those old timey steakhouses,
and like a really solid shrimp cocktail is.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
A thing of beauty.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
And actually, now that he's saying that, I might revise
mine or add at it as an.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
App Yeah, I like to because John is methodical, so
he of course he's thinking deservasive appetizer made and side.
Here's the dessert, he says, dessert a guava cheesecake milkshake
from Morgenstern's in New York City and a pint of
Jenny's brown butter almond brittle ice cream.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Know, that's a fabulous ice cream. We have Jenni Cere Atlanta.
That is a really solid ice cream pick.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
I was actually gonna say about was it because not Kazinski,
the Oklahoma City bomber guy. He he had two pints
of the same ice cream. I would have had one
pint of two different ones. Whull variety in there. You know,
that's a really good point.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
And then also on the Missing Team, producer Chris Brown says,
I'm going to go with the gorge fest. Here probably
be a peanut butter bacon burger, a sider fries, and
mac and cheese for dessert. A stack of amazing pancakes
that I will eat very slowly, right.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Once and again, a little strategy there inevitable.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
But now we have to give a shout out to you, sir.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
We are going to put this to bed because I've
been bugging you and Matt and pretty much everybody we
know about this question. But I really liked your answer
and when you when you gave me your answer, you
thought this out and you were pretty definitive about it.
And then you came back because you reached a crossroad
(33:14):
with potatoes in particular.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Right, yeah, I did.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
And for me, the part of this that I that
I talked to you about definitely squarely falls under the
nostalgic category because you know, I've I've been obsessed with this,
with the Big Lebowski and and just Los Angeles lore
and cult server since I was a kid, and in
and out Burger comes up a lot and in in
the Big Lebowski and it's one of those things that
you just can't get outside certain parts of the country,
(33:40):
and it's very much like an LA thing.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
LA is a real burger town. And since then, when I.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Was a kid, I've had uh the privilege and pleasure
of going to Los Angeles a lot. We've been there
together multiple times, and every time I go, there's an
in and out right by the airport. I hit that
up and and you know, had it multiple times, and
it really is about as good as they say. The
in and out double double animal style, which is the
off menu way of getting your burger, which is basically
(34:07):
just with like a kind of a Thousand Island dressing
type situation, a saucy sauce burger sauce kind of thing.
But you're right, Ben, I have long been a defender
of the in and out shoe string fries. They are
really skinny and really crispy and very lightly dare I say, unsalted,
But every time I bring it up, I've been kind
of it's been pointed out to me that they're kind
(34:29):
of much maligned. Recently sort of adjusted my position on them,
and I think I would get my fries flown in
from elsewhere.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Some kind of truffle fry.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
There's a really good spot here in Atlanta called Le
Petite Marche, Yeah, pursed area. I believe it's a little
Dillogy kind of area here in and it's really good
and they do these trufy seasoned fries with parmesan that
are just freaking phenomenal. So as long as I was
getting executed here in Atlanta, that hopefully fall under the
(35:01):
you know, the terms of service.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
What you might call.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, but then I would lead off though with a
good shrimp cocktail. And then for a dessert, I like
that Superman ice cream and that's nostalgic too. Really just
tastes like vanilla. But it's like it's like they smashed
up a bunch of smurfs and made an ice.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Cream out of them.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
How do they do it? How do they get those
all those colors. I'm a sucker for artificial color, but
that's I think that would be me. Yeah, shrimp cocktail
from Amazing steakhouse, double double animal style truffle fries, and
Superman ice cream.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Perfect poetry, folks. I just have to give credit where
it's due.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Nol.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
I love how you were one of the people who said,
hang on, let me think about it, and you treated
this question with the importance it deserves. And then you
came back and you said you came back with like
breaking news about the French fries and on the edge
of their seat about my hot takes on.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Freaking I was that's why we hang out, but I
think it is too.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
But as we've mentioned at the top of the show
and a few times since Paul Michigan controlled decand the
long suffering super producer of stuff they don't want you
to know, is sitting in today for Max, who is away,
and we actually just put the question to him not
too long ago, and I'm fully behind his response.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Ah, yes, Paul, DEC and the better half of the
slate that Paul that I have. Paul says, if money
is no object, I'd get a five y goose steak. Paul,
you have chosen wisely, of course. And then you say,
look if there, if money is an object, I would
have a quarter pounder with cheese fries at Coca Cola.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
And with that, thank you, Paul. Wait a minute, no, no, no, no,
you're not getting out of this, Ben. You can't play
these games with us and not give us your last meal.
Come on, man, Well you saw the Frank beat me
here Max. You saw the crazy ass note I put
in there. I don't know, Okay, you.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Know, still on the still on the fence. I'm not
as definitive as you guys. I have such a tough
time choosing, you know, I might need a little more time,
and maybe that's the heart of the episode.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Here for the record, the message to say, you'll never
catch him, You'll never catch you, never take him in
alive Coppers. Yeah, it's a it's a little wrote that
in a weird place, but folks, thank you so much
for tuning in.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Big, big things of course, to our super producer mister
Max Williams, to our guest producer Paul Wig.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Decad Paul Decadent decades.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
There it is big, big Thanks to Alex Williams who
composed our track.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Huge thanks to Jonathan Strickland, the Quister, A J.
Speaker 5 (37:59):
Maham, Jacob's the Puzzler, Christopherraciotis needs Jeff Coats here in spirit,
and of course to you Ben, what a what a
rop what a journey into the heart of darkness and deliciousness,
the heart and the belly of darkness.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
There it is, there, it is.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Oh, I've got to send you a picture of this, uh,
this weird crap thing I got into.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
We'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Books. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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