August 27, 2020 • 28 mins
As the tide of war turns toward the inevitable defeat of the Nazis, the staff of the secret horse farm fear the oncoming, starving Russian forces will consume their prized Lippizaner horses. In desperation, the farm turns to an unlikely source for help -- the US Army. Tune in as Ben and Noel explore the strange story of the Nazi super horse program.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
(00:27):
back to the show Ridiculous Historians. As always, thank you
for tuning in. When we last met together here in
podcast land, we explored the strange, obscure story of the
Nazi obsession with horses, which they took to uh just
bizarre lengths. Hi, I'm bet, I'm no, I hope I'm
(00:50):
not canceled after my um my Nazi horse intro on
the last episode. I thought it was funny. I'm not
gonna do it now though, or ever again? What why?
I don't know, man, I just I canceled myself after that.
I'm I'm kidding. I thought it was cute. But this
is the part of the story, as we tease in
the last episode, where things kind of take an interesting turn.
(01:12):
Not right away, but if you stick with us, I
think you will be rewarded. Oh On, agreed, So let's
ride out to the rest of the story. Of course,
with the help of our better third super producer, Casey
pegrum Boom. We're back in Germany. It's clear that German
(01:34):
forces are going to lose the war, and this is
where a veterinarian named Rudolph Lesson comes into play at
the farm at hostile our hippologist Raw has appointed this
veterinarian Rudolph Lesson, and when the tide of war has
(01:57):
clearly turned against Germany, this veter anarian Lessening and a
small group of Nazi officers who also happened to love horses,
start to worry that these regal stallions that they love
so much will be I don't know, uh, subject to degradation,
(02:19):
I guess stolen or eating. Oh my god, Because it
turns out that Russian forces were known for capturing enemy horses,
killing them, and eating them. That's yeah, okay, that's one
of those things that I've always been fascinated. But I
don't want anyone to think that I'm a monster. But
where do these lines in the sand get drawn? Like
(02:41):
we will? People will eat rabbit. It's probably a little
lower on the you know, accepted food chain for most,
but you definitely hear about rabbit stew or you know,
lambs are about as cute as they come. Is it
a cuteness quotient? Is it a functionality quotation that makes
certain animals more or less acceptable to eat? Even today,
I'm still a little bit perplexed by this whole continuum
(03:03):
of like which animals you know, squig people out if
you eat them? Yeah. I mean I'm the worst person
to ask about this because I really practice that line.
I mean I horse before, and it was I think
more for the cultural experience where I was. Was that
in Korea or Japan? That was in Japan? Yeah, but
(03:27):
you know, still I I have some of the same lines,
like a horse meat is a more common thing, definitely
outside of the US and Canada, But I think a
lot of people have a line or two, like I
would not be comfortable eating, say a dog or a
cat unless I had to to survive, you know what
I mean? Uh huh, I do. And um maybe that's
(03:48):
what was happening with the Russians. And I'm making no
judgment on one way or the other. I was using
this as an opportunity to broach this subject. Casey, where
do you fall on this? And I don't want to
derail this too much, but I think it's fascinating where
do you fall on this? Like which animals are to eat? Line?
Is it about cuteness? Is it about utility? What is
it for you? Yeah? I think I think if we're honest.
I think it's the cuteness thing. And it's also like
(04:11):
you know, domesticated cuteness versus like in the wild cuteness.
That's probably part of it too, But honestly, I mean intelligence, right,
if we're if we're gonna be fair, if we're gonna
be ethical, intelligence is gonna be a big part of it.
You know, we a lot of people eat pork, and
pigs are very very smart, and that's, uh, that's kind
of a conundrum. I still eat pork all the time,
but you know, I feel increasingly less great about it.
(04:33):
So the octopus as well, right, Fried Columnar, I mean
that's a supersentient being casey on the case. But back
to the Russians and you know, picking off these horses
and making fast work of them. Culinarily, Uh, these Russians
were absolutely moving in and the walls were closing in
(04:56):
on the Nazis, and these Russians really had none of
that reverence or cuddly sweet empathy that the Germans seemed
to have for you know, horses rather than humans. And
they just couldn't be less impressed by these, uh, these specimens,
and they didn't differentiate them from any old run of
the mill nag. You know, is that a thing isn't
(05:17):
a nag just like a regular horse. That just means
a female horse, doesn't it. I don't know. Well, nag
can mean a small horse, but it often has a
connotation of a older, useless horse. There you go, there
you go. Okay, well I use the word relatively appropriately there.
So they were again just not seeing what the Germans
(05:41):
were seeing when it came to these horses that they
ran across. But the Germans at hostile at this you know,
this facility. I mean, sure, were they tools of the
Third Reich, participating in a breeding program to create a
super horse you know, used for war. Yeah, But at
the end of the day, why were they there? Because
they were the best in the brightest in the country
(06:02):
when it came to animals, And you know, like you say, Ben,
I mean, we know that people who really truly love
animals are typically good people. I'm not trying to like,
you know, like soft pedal this or say these were
the good horse handler Nazis, but they definitely, you know,
cared about the animals under in their charge, and they
didn't want these bloodthirsty Russians coming in and make a
(06:24):
minced meat out of their prize lepositors. Right, yeah, I
think it can be a very good traits to like
and love animals, But I don't I don't think that
necessarily make you a good person. But you know what,
from the horse's perspective, these were great people, right, fair enough.
I also wouldn't point out one very interesting thing here.
(06:46):
We're talking about the problem of sentience or eating meat,
and asking where we draw the line. Adolf Hitler himself
was a vegetarian. That did not make him a good person.
People on the Internet love to point that out. That's like, um,
it's it's like a sub subsection of um, what's the
lives of Godwin's law? That all Internet debates will end
(07:06):
up invoking Nazi Germany at some point, Not to be
confused with Gladwin's law, which is something else that I'll
let Ben define. Oh gosh, oh man, we should probably
check with him off air to see what what his
law might surely surely he has what really quickly, I
just got to do this. I I've been just butchering, butchering,
(07:27):
butchering not horses, but the pronunciation of this particular breed
of force, because I just clocked myself saying it weird,
and I kind of decided to do a double take,
and it is lip is honors, not Lipos. So I'm
not gonna go I'm gonna go ahead and own that
one right now, as opposed to like going in and
like fixing every single one. Now, we don't do that
(07:47):
here on ridiculous history, but I will cop to it
right now and from here forth we will refer to
them as liposners. So I and I followed your lead
on that in episode. On the fact is, though, Ben,
we could I could have gotten it right the first
time when I read it more closely and then gradually
just kind of bastardized the pronunciation as we've made of
(08:08):
this two parter, and God knows, we don't remember what
we talked about from minute to minute, or at least
that's speaking for myself. But I think we're in a
good place now. We we were right with God and
we can reasonably progress forth with the story. Yeah, yeah,
there's another character here we have to introduce. His name
is Lieutenant Colonel Hubert Rudofski. Lieutenant Colonel Hubert Rudowski is
(08:31):
also a horse lover, and he's in charge of the
care of the horses on this farm. And when Lessen
and Rudofski and the other horse loving Nazi officers realized
that the Russians are coming and will steal their horses
or even worse, in their minds, eat them to survive.
(08:53):
Because you know, of course they did not consider Russians
entirely human, right, so they would think a horse is
way more important in the grand scheme of things. So
they did something that they would have never done. They said,
we need to reach out to our enemies, the American forces.
(09:14):
We need them to help steal the horses to safety.
Rodowski says, okay, look, the American forces are the only
way to save these horses. So he sends a spy
across the border, across the German border to meet with
the oncoming American forces and say, hey, I know we
(09:35):
got a lot of stuff going on right now. I
know there's a little bit of tension access and allies
and so on. But you guys love horses, right, You
guys are cool with animals. Will you help us save ours? Yeah,
they're they're appealing to that kind of common bond. Whether
or not they like hate each other ideologically, they can
both at least agree that horses are cool and probably
(09:56):
shouldn't be like, you know, openly slaughtered. So they basically
joined forces in like a weird buddy comedy kind of situation.
You know, Uh, what do we say? Sort of almost
like an Inglorious Bastards but a little bit kinder and gentler.
It's like clever Hans meets in Glorious Bastards. Yeah, and
(10:16):
here's what goes down. So we know that Germany surrenders
on May seven, that's with the official announcement, but about
eleven days earlier, more than a week earlier, that German
intelligence officer we talked about, the one that Rudowski ended
up sending. He surrenders to the US second Cavalry Group.
(10:38):
And when he surrenders, this is his strategy. Whendy surrenders.
He has a bunch of photographs of these Thoroughbred horses,
so he's like throwing up his hands and say I surrender,
and then like showing the pictures and the horses same,
please save our stallions. Uh. And then this guy was
a Luftwaffe colonel I believe his name was Walter Holters.
(11:01):
So he gets interrogated the way any surrendering officer would
and he says, quote, not far from here, some of
the most valuable horses in the world are being sheltered.
These are no ordinary horses. These are royal. Give it
to me one more time, you'll la pass right. Yeah,
(11:22):
there were from its lips, slip, its lip, its honors,
double lips, honors. These are royal lips from Vienna. He says,
he did say this, and then he says, the German
army sent them to this farm hostile for safekeeping. Now
they're going to get captured by the Russians and they
(11:47):
have to figure out what they're going to do. They
sure do. So that's the We've got our hero of
the the day, or the moment, at least, a Colonel
James Hancock Hank Reed, who reached out to the head
Hans show the man himself, General George S. Patton. And
(12:11):
when word reaches Patton that those stallions were stuck behind
enemy lines in Czechoslovakia, you know, he I get, I
don't know. This is just a little bit of editorialization. Again.
He must have had that same little animal, you know,
part of his heart and soul that that gave that
has brought him to two tears with the thought of
these cuties getting sliced up by enemy forces, and so
(12:34):
he decides to make this a priority and sends that
cavalry to save them. And they have to do it
in secret, Patton says, get them, meaning the horses, make
it fast. The reason it has to be in secret
is because the U. S Army had already cracked in
agreement with Stalid. Remember the Stalin in the US did
(12:55):
not trust each other. They just had a common cause.
So they cracked this agreement with stalind that they would
advance no further than Germany's border with checklist Slovakia. And
the horses again are over the border. So it's against
that agreement for the US to intervene. But the die
(13:16):
is cast and their path is set. A small group
of Nazi German soldiers and US soldiers decided to put
the war to one side, to bracket it, or as
they say in corporate America, to put a pinion it
for a moment, and team up to get to the
farm and rescue these horses. Oh and really quickly. Uh yeah,
(13:40):
I mentioned that Patton his eyes lit up in in
the as much as like a dead eyed you know,
military strategist genius like that size could possibly do. But
he was in fact an actual horse lover when he
heard that these horses were in need of rescuing. And
it turns out he actually was a legitimate, documented horse lover.
(14:00):
He was a huge fan of Polo and he had
competed in the nineteen twelve Olympic pentatholon. I didn't know
anything about Patton's pre military history. That's pretty interesting. Remember
Colonel Charles Hancock hank Lee, who was the one who
told Patton about this, uh, this whole course situation in
the first place. Well, Patton gave the order and moments
(14:21):
later hank ree this gentleman um who was a horseman himself, uh,
the commanding officer of the second Cavalry in Europe. Um,
he dispatched one of his soldiers and who was a
writer himself from Tennessee to team up with this particular
Nazi veterinarian to make this as quick and nimble in
(14:41):
operation as possible. Because Patton made it very clear. Yeah,
like he said a minute ago, Ben that this was
something that had be done in secret. But he took
it a step further and said, if they were ever discovered.
Patton would never he would disavow this entire thing and
and not you know, uh it was. So that's what
makes this a black ops. Isn't that right then? Isn't
that what a black like an off book kind of operation? Right? Yeah,
(15:04):
plausible deniability because think about it, if they're caught and
Russia wants to push the case, this could endanger the
alliance of the Allies as the potential to which would
change the course of history. Yep. So Hank Greed chooses
this guy from Tennessee who's familiar with horses, guy named
(15:25):
Captain Tom Stewart, as he said, to team up with Lessing,
the German veterinarian. So in the dark of night, they
move through miles of forests and the ruins of villages
that have been destroyed to capture these horses and return
with them to the US forces before the Russian troops arrive.
(15:48):
And when Lessie gets back to the farm, he takes
Captain Stewart and hides him in his apartment and then
he goes to negotiate with the director of the farm.
So Lessie tells Captain Stewart, hey, here, hide in my
apartment on the farm. Su premisis I'm gonna go to
my boss, the director of the farm, and and say like, hey,
(16:11):
let's save the horses. And then I'm even gonna go
to the German general in charge of this region and
be like, hey, bro, don't you love horses too. They
just needed to convince the Germans that they would officially
surrender the horse farm to the US immediately again, because
(16:33):
they thought the US forces would treat the horses better
than the Russian forces would. And Stewart actually wrote an
official letter to that was like a memo to German
commanders at hostile and he just basically appealed to their humanity,
you know, and said, the Americans wished to assist you
in evacuating the horses safely back across the border to Bavaria.
(16:56):
And it hit home. Uh, these German commanders, realizing that
they were toasts, that it was over for them as
far as like, you know, uh prevailing in the war effort,
decided to cut their losses in at least, you know, okay, well,
at least we can like do a good thing. And
they and they did. They helped them free the horses
(17:17):
and they all were guided safely back to Bavaria. Yeah,
let's really made an appeal to the horse lover in
everyone involved, right. Uh. He says, it is unimportant for
us to win the war. Here at this horse farm,
(17:37):
it's our duty to do everything we can to save
these horses. So they make a flag, a white flag,
the old standard of surrender, out of a bed sheet.
They put it up on the farm's flagpole, and then
a few hours later US forces officially take over the
farm and they start making plans to get the horses
(18:01):
to safety. And there's something there. There's a poetic quote
about this from the commanding officer of the Second Calvary
from Hank Reed, and and it stayed with me. He says,
we were so tired of death and destruction, we wanted
(18:21):
to do something beautiful. Makes the perfect sense. You're facing
your own demise, you know. I mean, they know what's
going to happen to them, and maybe they're not going
to be executed, but they know their lives are over. Uh,
why not go for a moment of redemption? And I'm
not saying this is enough to redeem all of the
horrible acts of the Nazi Party, but I see the impulse.
(18:43):
I understand the drive there, and it's a nice place
to sort of wrap up the story or begin to.
I think we've got a little bit of epilogue for
you as well, don't we. Yeah, So the big question
what happened to the horses? And then also what happened
to these soldiers? You know the personally just quoted Hank
(19:03):
read is he's on the U. S. Side, But everybody
in this war has seen so many terrible things, right,
and you feel you feel like, even though you're you're
fighting for what you see is the greater good, you
were also committing acts of violence. So how beautiful it
is to maybe save something instead of destroy it. The
(19:26):
surrender at the farm is peaceful. Lieutenant William Donald quinn Livin,
I love that name was the first of seventy US
troops to arrive on the scene, and once they had
secured the base, the U. S. Troops thought the mission
was over. But on April a small German force that
(19:48):
had decided to fight to the death entered into a
five hour battle with the soldiers on the farm. It
ended up with two US troopstein and that was one
of the impetus is for the US military to ship
the horses all the way to the US. They say,
we're taking up we're stealing them. Like you asked, the
(20:10):
safest place we can think of is back home in
the good old US of a. Imagine having to transport,
having to safely transport these live horses across Europe. That
is a tall milkshake, my friends. And it felt like
it was the only choice they had because food insecurity
(20:31):
was so widespread and rampant that these horses had. Despite
their stereotypes about Russians, horses in any country at this
point had a very high likelihood of being killed and eating.
So in u fall of fifty one of these remarkable
(20:56):
horses are airlifted onto the Stephen F. Austin, which is
an amphibious docking ship. And that right then, what does that?
What does that mean? Exactly? Yeah, there are several US S. Austin's,
but this one was the third U S. S. Austin
and it is an amphibious transport DOC. So, an amphibious
(21:20):
transport DOC is it's a ship that can transport troops
into a war zone by sea, usually like shooting out
landing craft. Uh. And they also have nowadays, they have
the ability to transport helicopters and things like that. So
this is a ship that has room for the horses.
(21:41):
It is probably the most important part here, Yeah, exactly,
and they were allowed to flourish. Uh. And that's kind
of the happy ending of the story, you know, Like
I mean, it's it's like we said, Uh, animals like
this have no control over their situation. And it always
kind of pulls on my heartstrings when you see them
kind of used for nefarious purposes. I don't know, I'm
(22:05):
not a big fan of breeding and the complications and
the moral kind of dilemmas behind all of that. Pure
breeding and stuff anyway, or cross breeding, right, we talked
about that with the tigers. That's something that you see
with like pure bred dogs and dog shows and stuff,
and there's a lot of feelings about things like that.
So that alone, um kind of makes me twitch a
little bit. But then when you know they're being bred
(22:26):
for use in war, that's even worse. So it's great
to see a hundred and fifty one of them at least,
I mean that that that must have just been a fraction. Ben,
I know they were trying to breed thousands and thousands
of these, right, So think of the ones that that
were lost, Yeah, the ones that they that were also
never born because the breeding program did not continue. It's
strange because this saved the entire concept of these horses, right,
(22:54):
because all of the existing living versions of this horse
have been gathered in this one arm and if they
had not been transported out to the US, they probably
would have been lost, you know, whether eaten, whether dying
and starvation, etcetera. So, in the midst of all the
chaos and terror and in humanity or in horsemanity maybe
(23:19):
of World War Two, it's inspiring that there is this
one tale wherein people put aside the war that they
have pledged to fight in to save some animals. It
does tug on the heart strings. And so in a way, you, guys,
(23:39):
I think we found a happy ending here. We absolutely did,
and I think there's no better place to wrap up
than with a happy ending. Not to mention, we're thirty
four minutes and eighteen seconds into this recording, and despite
a little peek behind the curtain, guys, some of my
moments of not picking up the baton when passed to
me because dealing with one of the other by products
(24:00):
of our jobs here in podcast them. Uh, it's probably
gonna shrink down to maybe a little shorter than that.
But I think it's a respectable episode and respectable to part.
And I really appreciate you Ben and you Casey for
joining me on this journey. Yeah back catch. I'm watching
a fantastic storm gathering outside of my window, so I'm
(24:21):
gonna go hang out in the patio and uh probably
think a little bit more about obscure inspiring stories from
World War Two. We'd love to hear your suggestions in
this vein. Uh so hoof it on over to the
internet where you can find us on Facebook. You can
find us on Twitter, you can find us on Instagram.
(24:44):
We recommend our Facebook page or Ridiculous Historians if you
want a good historical chuckle or two. And you can
find us as individuals as well if you issue. You
may find me on the internet on the Instagram exclusively
at how Now Noel Brown, where you can find and
I do allow my stories. Are you posting cooking stuff
(25:06):
and video game nerds stuff and uh things hanging out
with my kid? And I can't if you set something
that you're into, I'm there and I am on Instagram
in a burst of Creativity as at Ben Bowling I
am on Twitter as at Casey pegram fan number one.
I'm okay, I haven't started that account yet, Casey, but
(25:29):
that's her. That's your all account, right then? Yeah, that
just means someone else is gonna start it for us. Uh,
you can buy me at at Ben Bolan hsw on Twitter.
Thanks as always to Jonathan Strickland, a k a. The
Quister Huge. Thanks to Christopher haciotis here in spirit, Alex Williams,
(25:49):
who composed our theme research associate extraordinariir game Lousierer. I
did that because it rhyme with extraordinaire. I wouldn't pronounce
it extraordinary, so I should have pronounced it Gabe Losier,
And he's never really told us how to pronounce it,
So I think it's open season on pronunciation of Gabe's
last name. He is a real pill about that, and
I think we're gonna have to have a discussion. We've
(26:12):
got to have you back on the show. Oh, I
had a blast with that one. Another respectable two parter.
Uh what did I think I left that? Suproducer, Casey
Bagram Huge, Thanks to you, my friend. What's your takeaway?
On this epic horse adventure. This is a second horse
episode and as many weeks. I'm just wondering if, like
Clever Hans was sighted down in Argentina, like after you
(26:34):
know things. I don't know, was that World War two?
That was World War One? Right, so maybe the timeline
would be a little bit off for him being part
of this story. But you're right, Casey, Maybe he just
I don't know, maybe he made his grand getaway. Maybe
Clever Hans is on an island with Tupac and the
white tiger that mauled christ Christ Roy whatever his name is.
(26:55):
I know he died not the tiger too soon. Sorry, guys,
I made this a real bummer at the end, brought
it down. I I I can, I can take us
from a bummer to a groan. I am finally after
two episodes, able to tell you, guys some terrible horse
jokes that was saving for the end. Did you hear
about the man who went to the hospital with six
(27:16):
plastic horses inside him? What do you mean, like in
his heart, just in the body. The doctors. The doctors
described his condition as stable. I don't know. I thought
this was like some sort of like mega fail story.
Where the guy had shoved a bunch of plastic horses
up his body. Um, okay, just I think we're done
(27:42):
with this show. I think we've done all the things
and we're just like punchy because it is six fIF
on a Friday, and I think we still have some
asks to do. So how about we'll just see you
next time? Books, How do you make a small fortune
on horse racing? Start with a large fortune? M HM.
(28:03):
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
(00:27):
back to the show Ridiculous Historians. As always, thank you
for tuning in. When we last met together here in
podcast land, we explored the strange, obscure story of the
Nazi obsession with horses, which they took to uh just
bizarre lengths. Hi, I'm bet, I'm no, I hope I'm
(00:50):
not canceled after my um my Nazi horse intro on
the last episode. I thought it was funny. I'm not
gonna do it now though, or ever again? What why?
I don't know, man, I just I canceled myself after that.
I'm I'm kidding. I thought it was cute. But this
is the part of the story, as we tease in
the last episode, where things kind of take an interesting turn.
(01:12):
Not right away, but if you stick with us, I
think you will be rewarded. Oh On, agreed, So let's
ride out to the rest of the story. Of course,
with the help of our better third super producer, Casey
pegrum Boom. We're back in Germany. It's clear that German
(01:34):
forces are going to lose the war, and this is
where a veterinarian named Rudolph Lesson comes into play at
the farm at hostile our hippologist Raw has appointed this
veterinarian Rudolph Lesson, and when the tide of war has
(01:57):
clearly turned against Germany, this veter anarian Lessening and a
small group of Nazi officers who also happened to love horses,
start to worry that these regal stallions that they love
so much will be I don't know, uh, subject to degradation,
(02:19):
I guess stolen or eating. Oh my god, Because it
turns out that Russian forces were known for capturing enemy horses,
killing them, and eating them. That's yeah, okay, that's one
of those things that I've always been fascinated. But I
don't want anyone to think that I'm a monster. But
where do these lines in the sand get drawn? Like
(02:41):
we will? People will eat rabbit. It's probably a little
lower on the you know, accepted food chain for most,
but you definitely hear about rabbit stew or you know,
lambs are about as cute as they come. Is it
a cuteness quotient? Is it a functionality quotation that makes
certain animals more or less acceptable to eat? Even today,
I'm still a little bit perplexed by this whole continuum
(03:03):
of like which animals you know, squig people out if
you eat them? Yeah. I mean I'm the worst person
to ask about this because I really practice that line.
I mean I horse before, and it was I think
more for the cultural experience where I was. Was that
in Korea or Japan? That was in Japan? Yeah, but
(03:27):
you know, still I I have some of the same lines,
like a horse meat is a more common thing, definitely
outside of the US and Canada, But I think a
lot of people have a line or two, like I
would not be comfortable eating, say a dog or a
cat unless I had to to survive, you know what
I mean? Uh huh, I do. And um maybe that's
(03:48):
what was happening with the Russians. And I'm making no
judgment on one way or the other. I was using
this as an opportunity to broach this subject. Casey, where
do you fall on this? And I don't want to
derail this too much, but I think it's fascinating where
do you fall on this? Like which animals are to eat? Line?
Is it about cuteness? Is it about utility? What is
it for you? Yeah? I think I think if we're honest.
I think it's the cuteness thing. And it's also like
(04:11):
you know, domesticated cuteness versus like in the wild cuteness.
That's probably part of it too, But honestly, I mean intelligence, right,
if we're if we're gonna be fair, if we're gonna
be ethical, intelligence is gonna be a big part of it.
You know, we a lot of people eat pork, and
pigs are very very smart, and that's, uh, that's kind
of a conundrum. I still eat pork all the time,
but you know, I feel increasingly less great about it.
(04:33):
So the octopus as well, right, Fried Columnar, I mean
that's a supersentient being casey on the case. But back
to the Russians and you know, picking off these horses
and making fast work of them. Culinarily, Uh, these Russians
were absolutely moving in and the walls were closing in
(04:56):
on the Nazis, and these Russians really had none of
that reverence or cuddly sweet empathy that the Germans seemed
to have for you know, horses rather than humans. And
they just couldn't be less impressed by these, uh, these specimens,
and they didn't differentiate them from any old run of
the mill nag. You know, is that a thing isn't
(05:17):
a nag just like a regular horse. That just means
a female horse, doesn't it. I don't know. Well, nag
can mean a small horse, but it often has a
connotation of a older, useless horse. There you go, there
you go. Okay, well I use the word relatively appropriately there.
So they were again just not seeing what the Germans
(05:41):
were seeing when it came to these horses that they
ran across. But the Germans at hostile at this you know,
this facility. I mean, sure, were they tools of the
Third Reich, participating in a breeding program to create a
super horse you know, used for war. Yeah, But at
the end of the day, why were they there? Because
they were the best in the brightest in the country
(06:02):
when it came to animals, And you know, like you say, Ben,
I mean, we know that people who really truly love
animals are typically good people. I'm not trying to like,
you know, like soft pedal this or say these were
the good horse handler Nazis, but they definitely, you know,
cared about the animals under in their charge, and they
didn't want these bloodthirsty Russians coming in and make a
(06:24):
minced meat out of their prize lepositors. Right, yeah, I
think it can be a very good traits to like
and love animals, But I don't I don't think that
necessarily make you a good person. But you know what,
from the horse's perspective, these were great people, right, fair enough.
I also wouldn't point out one very interesting thing here.
(06:46):
We're talking about the problem of sentience or eating meat,
and asking where we draw the line. Adolf Hitler himself
was a vegetarian. That did not make him a good person.
People on the Internet love to point that out. That's like, um,
it's it's like a sub subsection of um, what's the
lives of Godwin's law? That all Internet debates will end
(07:06):
up invoking Nazi Germany at some point, Not to be
confused with Gladwin's law, which is something else that I'll
let Ben define. Oh gosh, oh man, we should probably
check with him off air to see what what his
law might surely surely he has what really quickly, I
just got to do this. I I've been just butchering, butchering,
(07:27):
butchering not horses, but the pronunciation of this particular breed
of force, because I just clocked myself saying it weird,
and I kind of decided to do a double take,
and it is lip is honors, not Lipos. So I'm
not gonna go I'm gonna go ahead and own that
one right now, as opposed to like going in and
like fixing every single one. Now, we don't do that
(07:47):
here on ridiculous history, but I will cop to it
right now and from here forth we will refer to
them as liposners. So I and I followed your lead
on that in episode. On the fact is, though, Ben,
we could I could have gotten it right the first
time when I read it more closely and then gradually
just kind of bastardized the pronunciation as we've made of
(08:08):
this two parter, and God knows, we don't remember what
we talked about from minute to minute, or at least
that's speaking for myself. But I think we're in a
good place now. We we were right with God and
we can reasonably progress forth with the story. Yeah, yeah,
there's another character here we have to introduce. His name
is Lieutenant Colonel Hubert Rudofski. Lieutenant Colonel Hubert Rudowski is
(08:31):
also a horse lover, and he's in charge of the
care of the horses on this farm. And when Lessen
and Rudofski and the other horse loving Nazi officers realized
that the Russians are coming and will steal their horses
or even worse, in their minds, eat them to survive.
(08:53):
Because you know, of course they did not consider Russians
entirely human, right, so they would think a horse is
way more important in the grand scheme of things. So
they did something that they would have never done. They said,
we need to reach out to our enemies, the American forces.
(09:14):
We need them to help steal the horses to safety.
Rodowski says, okay, look, the American forces are the only
way to save these horses. So he sends a spy
across the border, across the German border to meet with
the oncoming American forces and say, hey, I know we
(09:35):
got a lot of stuff going on right now. I
know there's a little bit of tension access and allies
and so on. But you guys love horses, right, You
guys are cool with animals. Will you help us save ours? Yeah,
they're they're appealing to that kind of common bond. Whether
or not they like hate each other ideologically, they can
both at least agree that horses are cool and probably
(09:56):
shouldn't be like, you know, openly slaughtered. So they basically
joined forces in like a weird buddy comedy kind of situation.
You know, Uh, what do we say? Sort of almost
like an Inglorious Bastards but a little bit kinder and gentler.
It's like clever Hans meets in Glorious Bastards. Yeah, and
(10:16):
here's what goes down. So we know that Germany surrenders
on May seven, that's with the official announcement, but about
eleven days earlier, more than a week earlier, that German
intelligence officer we talked about, the one that Rudowski ended
up sending. He surrenders to the US second Cavalry Group.
(10:38):
And when he surrenders, this is his strategy. Whendy surrenders.
He has a bunch of photographs of these Thoroughbred horses,
so he's like throwing up his hands and say I surrender,
and then like showing the pictures and the horses same,
please save our stallions. Uh. And then this guy was
a Luftwaffe colonel I believe his name was Walter Holters.
(11:01):
So he gets interrogated the way any surrendering officer would
and he says, quote, not far from here, some of
the most valuable horses in the world are being sheltered.
These are no ordinary horses. These are royal. Give it
to me one more time, you'll la pass right. Yeah,
(11:22):
there were from its lips, slip, its lip, its honors,
double lips, honors. These are royal lips from Vienna. He says,
he did say this, and then he says, the German
army sent them to this farm hostile for safekeeping. Now
they're going to get captured by the Russians and they
(11:47):
have to figure out what they're going to do. They
sure do. So that's the We've got our hero of
the the day, or the moment, at least, a Colonel
James Hancock Hank Reed, who reached out to the head
Hans show the man himself, General George S. Patton. And
(12:11):
when word reaches Patton that those stallions were stuck behind
enemy lines in Czechoslovakia, you know, he I get, I
don't know. This is just a little bit of editorialization. Again.
He must have had that same little animal, you know,
part of his heart and soul that that gave that
has brought him to two tears with the thought of
these cuties getting sliced up by enemy forces, and so
(12:34):
he decides to make this a priority and sends that
cavalry to save them. And they have to do it
in secret, Patton says, get them, meaning the horses, make
it fast. The reason it has to be in secret
is because the U. S Army had already cracked in
agreement with Stalid. Remember the Stalin in the US did
(12:55):
not trust each other. They just had a common cause.
So they cracked this agreement with stalind that they would
advance no further than Germany's border with checklist Slovakia. And
the horses again are over the border. So it's against
that agreement for the US to intervene. But the die
(13:16):
is cast and their path is set. A small group
of Nazi German soldiers and US soldiers decided to put
the war to one side, to bracket it, or as
they say in corporate America, to put a pinion it
for a moment, and team up to get to the
farm and rescue these horses. Oh and really quickly. Uh yeah,
(13:40):
I mentioned that Patton his eyes lit up in in
the as much as like a dead eyed you know,
military strategist genius like that size could possibly do. But
he was in fact an actual horse lover when he
heard that these horses were in need of rescuing. And
it turns out he actually was a legitimate, documented horse lover.
(14:00):
He was a huge fan of Polo and he had
competed in the nineteen twelve Olympic pentatholon. I didn't know
anything about Patton's pre military history. That's pretty interesting. Remember
Colonel Charles Hancock hank Lee, who was the one who
told Patton about this, uh, this whole course situation in
the first place. Well, Patton gave the order and moments
(14:21):
later hank ree this gentleman um who was a horseman himself, uh,
the commanding officer of the second Cavalry in Europe. Um,
he dispatched one of his soldiers and who was a
writer himself from Tennessee to team up with this particular
Nazi veterinarian to make this as quick and nimble in
(14:41):
operation as possible. Because Patton made it very clear. Yeah,
like he said a minute ago, Ben that this was
something that had be done in secret. But he took
it a step further and said, if they were ever discovered.
Patton would never he would disavow this entire thing and
and not you know, uh it was. So that's what
makes this a black ops. Isn't that right then? Isn't
that what a black like an off book kind of operation? Right? Yeah,
(15:04):
plausible deniability because think about it, if they're caught and
Russia wants to push the case, this could endanger the
alliance of the Allies as the potential to which would
change the course of history. Yep. So Hank Greed chooses
this guy from Tennessee who's familiar with horses, guy named
(15:25):
Captain Tom Stewart, as he said, to team up with Lessing,
the German veterinarian. So in the dark of night, they
move through miles of forests and the ruins of villages
that have been destroyed to capture these horses and return
with them to the US forces before the Russian troops arrive.
(15:48):
And when Lessie gets back to the farm, he takes
Captain Stewart and hides him in his apartment and then
he goes to negotiate with the director of the farm.
So Lessie tells Captain Stewart, hey, here, hide in my
apartment on the farm. Su premisis I'm gonna go to
my boss, the director of the farm, and and say like, hey,
(16:11):
let's save the horses. And then I'm even gonna go
to the German general in charge of this region and
be like, hey, bro, don't you love horses too. They
just needed to convince the Germans that they would officially
surrender the horse farm to the US immediately again, because
(16:33):
they thought the US forces would treat the horses better
than the Russian forces would. And Stewart actually wrote an
official letter to that was like a memo to German
commanders at hostile and he just basically appealed to their humanity,
you know, and said, the Americans wished to assist you
in evacuating the horses safely back across the border to Bavaria.
(16:56):
And it hit home. Uh, these German commanders, realizing that
they were toasts, that it was over for them as
far as like, you know, uh prevailing in the war effort,
decided to cut their losses in at least, you know, okay, well,
at least we can like do a good thing. And
they and they did. They helped them free the horses
(17:17):
and they all were guided safely back to Bavaria. Yeah,
let's really made an appeal to the horse lover in
everyone involved, right. Uh. He says, it is unimportant for
us to win the war. Here at this horse farm,
(17:37):
it's our duty to do everything we can to save
these horses. So they make a flag, a white flag,
the old standard of surrender, out of a bed sheet.
They put it up on the farm's flagpole, and then
a few hours later US forces officially take over the
farm and they start making plans to get the horses
(18:01):
to safety. And there's something there. There's a poetic quote
about this from the commanding officer of the Second Calvary
from Hank Reed, and and it stayed with me. He says,
we were so tired of death and destruction, we wanted
(18:21):
to do something beautiful. Makes the perfect sense. You're facing
your own demise, you know. I mean, they know what's
going to happen to them, and maybe they're not going
to be executed, but they know their lives are over. Uh,
why not go for a moment of redemption? And I'm
not saying this is enough to redeem all of the
horrible acts of the Nazi Party, but I see the impulse.
(18:43):
I understand the drive there, and it's a nice place
to sort of wrap up the story or begin to.
I think we've got a little bit of epilogue for
you as well, don't we. Yeah, So the big question
what happened to the horses? And then also what happened
to these soldiers? You know the personally just quoted Hank
(19:03):
read is he's on the U. S. Side, But everybody
in this war has seen so many terrible things, right,
and you feel you feel like, even though you're you're
fighting for what you see is the greater good, you
were also committing acts of violence. So how beautiful it
is to maybe save something instead of destroy it. The
(19:26):
surrender at the farm is peaceful. Lieutenant William Donald quinn Livin,
I love that name was the first of seventy US
troops to arrive on the scene, and once they had
secured the base, the U. S. Troops thought the mission
was over. But on April a small German force that
(19:48):
had decided to fight to the death entered into a
five hour battle with the soldiers on the farm. It
ended up with two US troopstein and that was one
of the impetus is for the US military to ship
the horses all the way to the US. They say,
we're taking up we're stealing them. Like you asked, the
(20:10):
safest place we can think of is back home in
the good old US of a. Imagine having to transport,
having to safely transport these live horses across Europe. That
is a tall milkshake, my friends. And it felt like
it was the only choice they had because food insecurity
(20:31):
was so widespread and rampant that these horses had. Despite
their stereotypes about Russians, horses in any country at this
point had a very high likelihood of being killed and eating.
So in u fall of fifty one of these remarkable
(20:56):
horses are airlifted onto the Stephen F. Austin, which is
an amphibious docking ship. And that right then, what does that?
What does that mean? Exactly? Yeah, there are several US S. Austin's,
but this one was the third U S. S. Austin
and it is an amphibious transport DOC. So, an amphibious
(21:20):
transport DOC is it's a ship that can transport troops
into a war zone by sea, usually like shooting out
landing craft. Uh. And they also have nowadays, they have
the ability to transport helicopters and things like that. So
this is a ship that has room for the horses.
(21:41):
It is probably the most important part here, Yeah, exactly,
and they were allowed to flourish. Uh. And that's kind
of the happy ending of the story, you know, Like
I mean, it's it's like we said, Uh, animals like
this have no control over their situation. And it always
kind of pulls on my heartstrings when you see them
kind of used for nefarious purposes. I don't know, I'm
(22:05):
not a big fan of breeding and the complications and
the moral kind of dilemmas behind all of that. Pure
breeding and stuff anyway, or cross breeding, right, we talked
about that with the tigers. That's something that you see
with like pure bred dogs and dog shows and stuff,
and there's a lot of feelings about things like that.
So that alone, um kind of makes me twitch a
little bit. But then when you know they're being bred
(22:26):
for use in war, that's even worse. So it's great
to see a hundred and fifty one of them at least,
I mean that that that must have just been a fraction. Ben,
I know they were trying to breed thousands and thousands
of these, right, So think of the ones that that
were lost, Yeah, the ones that they that were also
never born because the breeding program did not continue. It's
strange because this saved the entire concept of these horses, right,
(22:54):
because all of the existing living versions of this horse
have been gathered in this one arm and if they
had not been transported out to the US, they probably
would have been lost, you know, whether eaten, whether dying
and starvation, etcetera. So, in the midst of all the
chaos and terror and in humanity or in horsemanity maybe
(23:19):
of World War Two, it's inspiring that there is this
one tale wherein people put aside the war that they
have pledged to fight in to save some animals. It
does tug on the heart strings. And so in a way, you, guys,
(23:39):
I think we found a happy ending here. We absolutely did,
and I think there's no better place to wrap up
than with a happy ending. Not to mention, we're thirty
four minutes and eighteen seconds into this recording, and despite
a little peek behind the curtain, guys, some of my
moments of not picking up the baton when passed to
me because dealing with one of the other by products
(24:00):
of our jobs here in podcast them. Uh, it's probably
gonna shrink down to maybe a little shorter than that.
But I think it's a respectable episode and respectable to part.
And I really appreciate you Ben and you Casey for
joining me on this journey. Yeah back catch. I'm watching
a fantastic storm gathering outside of my window, so I'm
(24:21):
gonna go hang out in the patio and uh probably
think a little bit more about obscure inspiring stories from
World War Two. We'd love to hear your suggestions in
this vein. Uh so hoof it on over to the
internet where you can find us on Facebook. You can
find us on Twitter, you can find us on Instagram.
(24:44):
We recommend our Facebook page or Ridiculous Historians if you
want a good historical chuckle or two. And you can
find us as individuals as well if you issue. You
may find me on the internet on the Instagram exclusively
at how Now Noel Brown, where you can find and
I do allow my stories. Are you posting cooking stuff
(25:06):
and video game nerds stuff and uh things hanging out
with my kid? And I can't if you set something
that you're into, I'm there and I am on Instagram
in a burst of Creativity as at Ben Bowling I
am on Twitter as at Casey pegram fan number one.
I'm okay, I haven't started that account yet, Casey, but
(25:29):
that's her. That's your all account, right then? Yeah, that
just means someone else is gonna start it for us. Uh,
you can buy me at at Ben Bolan hsw on Twitter.
Thanks as always to Jonathan Strickland, a k a. The
Quister Huge. Thanks to Christopher haciotis here in spirit, Alex Williams,
(25:49):
who composed our theme research associate extraordinariir game Lousierer. I
did that because it rhyme with extraordinaire. I wouldn't pronounce
it extraordinary, so I should have pronounced it Gabe Losier,
And he's never really told us how to pronounce it,
So I think it's open season on pronunciation of Gabe's
last name. He is a real pill about that, and
I think we're gonna have to have a discussion. We've
(26:12):
got to have you back on the show. Oh, I
had a blast with that one. Another respectable two parter.
Uh what did I think I left that? Suproducer, Casey
Bagram Huge, Thanks to you, my friend. What's your takeaway?
On this epic horse adventure. This is a second horse
episode and as many weeks. I'm just wondering if, like
Clever Hans was sighted down in Argentina, like after you
(26:34):
know things. I don't know, was that World War two?
That was World War One? Right, so maybe the timeline
would be a little bit off for him being part
of this story. But you're right, Casey, Maybe he just
I don't know, maybe he made his grand getaway. Maybe
Clever Hans is on an island with Tupac and the
white tiger that mauled christ Christ Roy whatever his name is.
(26:55):
I know he died not the tiger too soon. Sorry, guys,
I made this a real bummer at the end, brought
it down. I I I can, I can take us
from a bummer to a groan. I am finally after
two episodes, able to tell you, guys some terrible horse
jokes that was saving for the end. Did you hear
about the man who went to the hospital with six
(27:16):
plastic horses inside him? What do you mean, like in
his heart, just in the body. The doctors. The doctors
described his condition as stable. I don't know. I thought
this was like some sort of like mega fail story.
Where the guy had shoved a bunch of plastic horses
up his body. Um, okay, just I think we're done
(27:42):
with this show. I think we've done all the things
and we're just like punchy because it is six fIF
on a Friday, and I think we still have some
asks to do. So how about we'll just see you
next time? Books, How do you make a small fortune
on horse racing? Start with a large fortune? M HM.
(28:03):
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