December 31, 2024 • 40 mins
While most people today already know the inspiring story of Rosa Parks and her pivotal role in the Montgomery Bus Riots, a lot of folks still don't know the story of Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old arrested nine months before Rosa Parks for the exact same reason: refusing to give up her seat on the bus in segregated Alabama. In today's special interview, Ben, Noel and Max explore this story with the one and only Nimene Wureh, the host of Historical Records, an family friendly, explosive blend of history and hip-hop. Spoiler: listen to the very end -- there's a surprise!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much
for tuning in. Let's hear it for the Man, the myth,
the legend, our super producer, mister Max Williams. The crowd
goes wild, it does do that? Hey, who are those
dulcet tones over there? Why I spy mister Noel Brown?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Is your little eye?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
And my big one too? Funny, I have very disparate
eye sizes.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
It's true it's a podcast, but you can use your
imagination and picture Ben's bizarro eye situation. I know, actually, Ben,
that's not true. You're being hard on yourself. Gorgeous, Oh,
thank you. I like to gaze into them.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
If anything, I do have what they call rom com eyes,
and I appreciate that they.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Don't know what that means. It's something I made up,
like bedroom eyes. Who knows?
Speaker 1 (01:11):
You know, that's up to your Particulous Historians write to
us and let us know what.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Rom com eyes are.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
What Ben Bolen's eyes look like to you?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, that's me.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I'm going by Ben Mike check Bollin for today's episode,
and Noel, you and I have something very very special
here at the end of the year. We're gosh. We
are both avid fans of music. You know, I particularly
am a huge fan of hip hop. You are a
multi instrumentalist.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
And we both go out for history occasionally, you know,
every sort of talk about it from time to time.
Every yes, one hundred percent. I do like to make
beats in my spare time, and you also have been
known to drop some firebars in your spare time time
to Oh my gosh, thank you, I'm twitter painted.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
This is also this is also the time for us
to say that we might be working on a little
music off the books together. True, but we are doing
something song related today, an exploration that we are so
excited about. We are this is a true story. We
are hanging out with the creator, the host, I dare say,
(02:25):
the musician behind the fantastic podcast Historical Records.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Noel.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Can you help me with the introduction here?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Boy? Can I?
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Ever? We love to welcome to Ridiculous History, the wonderful
and nemone ware of Historical Records Fame. Yeah, we're really
good at intros, aren't we, Neminy. It's like sort of
our thing. We don't even need to. We don't even
need to go on from here. We'll just like let
it lie with the introne. I'm kidding, Nemini, Welcome to
whatever this show is called. This is called ridiculous History
(02:57):
is what this is called.
Speaker 5 (02:59):
Thank you having me, very exciting me here.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Of course, So you know, Ben kind of set it up.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
You know, Historical Records is a I guess it's been
described to me often as history with a beat. It's
a podcast kind of created in conjunction with the Wonderful
Story Pirates kind of children's podcast network company production House
and also Questloves production company and yourself. And I've described
(03:27):
it to many folks. It's sort of like a almost
like an audio hip hop themed Yo Gabba Gabba that
very much leans on history. And I hope you take
that as a compliment, and I think Yo Gabba Gabba rules.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
It does.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
I definitely that was definitely my show back in the day.
I've never heard it described like that. I hope you
don't mind.
Speaker 5 (03:45):
I think I'm gonna steal it.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Oh steal away, an explosive fusion of hip hop and history,
described as Taylor made for music loving kids and families,
and to be honest, a. When I was hearing some
of these episodes earlier, I started sending them to my
(04:09):
nieces just to just.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
To let kids know that I'm sure, take you important.
It's important to let to remind them occasionally. But you know,
it's neat because it really is something that is, you know,
certainly appealing to kids, but it has such a broad
appeal to adults as well, because there's so much stuff
kind of little Easter eggs hidden that might fly over kids' heads,
(04:33):
but it's just really multi layered and just an absolute
joy to listen to. Can you tell us a little
bit about kind of how this came together and and
sort of how your role is sort of solidified in
this in this world of historical records.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, so historical records, as you mentioned, it came it's
from the beautiful mind of the people at Story Priors,
Lee Overtree, myself, questlove Jonathan Glickman, and so it was
maybe it was like, I feel like during the pandemic,
maybe right after the pandemic. So a few years ago
we came to me with this idea of this new
(05:06):
project that he had coming together and wanted me to
audition to be the host and I think at the time,
I had been doing story parts and voiceover for a while,
which was never a lane I thought I would go into.
And I wanted to be like an actress, like I
wanted to do theater.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
I wanted to do TV.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
So I was like, Okay, I need to like take
a break from the voice over and focus more on
this other stuff.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
So at first I was like, no, I don't want
to audition.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
And so then he comes back a few months later
and it's just like, Niminie, can you just please just
send me to anything, just send me whatever, and like
send me something. And then just because I lovely, he
such just media, I was like fine or whatever. So
then I just recorded some stuff I was having fun,
sent it in and he's like, great, Jonathan.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
Glickman wants to meet you. And I was like, oh, okay, great.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
So I was actually I was babies. I was a
nanny at the time, and I was at work and
the mom she was she worked from home. So I
was like, hey, like, is it okay? I have this interview?
Can you like take the baby for like ten minutes?
So I kept like have this interview and she was
so amazed. She was like oh my god, of course,
So she took the baby and they went in the
living room, and then I just like had an interview
with Jonathan Gickman and with Lee and with Jamie Sokka,
(06:06):
who's also like the creator of story parts with Lee,
and then I mean it just went really well. And
then from there I kind of just I got the job.
And then we started brainstorming on what did we want
it to look like, what is the format, what are
our themes, like, how who are the people we want
to talk about, and what is the message we want
to you know, all the background stuff. And then do
(06:29):
I want to also be a writer, and like what
does my role look like as the producer creat a producer?
Speaker 5 (06:33):
And so then we talked.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
About all of that, and then I mean then we
just like started Roland and I wrote I think I
wrote the first.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
Song of my calaued it coman song. I wrote that
like two three years ago.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
It's been a second and so yeah, and so that's
that's how it came about and how I became a
part of it.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Pandemic kind of created a time warp for all of us.
It's a little hard to even envision a boy.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, and uh. I would also love to share a
couple of fun facts. Not to put you too much
in the spotlight here, but uh, nimini, so we could
get to know you. I am incredibly curious in your
background as a polyglot. Is it true that you speak
for languages?
Speaker 5 (07:13):
It is true.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I guess I can say that I'm proficient in three
and the fourth is like a beginner intermediate.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Oh that's great.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
I'm total at three and the first one i'm proficient
and mildly is Irish, so I'm not that great at
the one I mean.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
And I alsoy you know, I was once a small
German boy, as I said on the show, and I
was born in Germany and went to proper German kindergarten.
But I think I probably still barely speak German at
a kindergarten level.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
So what are the ones you're proficient in?
Speaker 5 (07:40):
So I'm proficient? I mean obviously I always say English
because you know that a number.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Counts, it counts.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Every win's a win.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
Yeah, and then French. French is when I started learning. Second,
I love French, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
And in Spanish, you know the basics, because also my
brother's like girl, well, fiance longtime part or as Mexican,
and she always spoke Spanish to be growing up, so
I just like learned.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
From her and then I started living Korean during the pandemic.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Oh no, pandemic handle I love it. Yeah, hand goal
the alphabet.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Oh yes, I'm not that proficient.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Well we're all doing but that's incredible.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
So, you know, the creative side of it super interests
me because I mean it is like any kind of
show like this is going to have a lot of
folks involved.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
But what did that.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Kind of creative participation sort of end up becoming, you.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
Know, for you with the with historical records.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
With the show, Yeah, I was like, you know how
like like how much were you involved in the songwriting,
the day to day creation and also we're picking the
picking the historical figures that you guys wanted to cover.
Speaker 5 (08:52):
Yeah, oh yeah, definitely I think I was.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
I was very involved in the process, especially with like
at the way beginning a figure, as I saying before,
like the themes and what we wanted to do and
like how we wanted to format it and like how
we wanted my character to be because I also have
a character Niminy on story prior its who is different
from this character Niminy on Historical Records.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
So then we were talking about like.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Bouncing around ideas of do we want her to have
a sidekit, and what do we want the sidekick to
look like and such, and just doing research on people that.
Speaker 5 (09:25):
We wanted to talk about in the podcast.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Doing going through the scripts, working at making edits, making comments,
listening to the drafts.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
I'm a part of like every part of.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
It, but I'm especially part of the songwriting portion the
music because music is a first love of mine and
i love writing music, and so I've written a few songs,
a few choruses and a few full songs for the
podcast that I'm very excited about.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
And yeah, I mean I'm just really involved, like everywhere.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And one thing that really stands out and differentiates Historical
Records is that there's this narrative spine of music. It
is a character in the story right each episode, it
moves us through. We were talking a bit off air,
we'd love to give people just a sample taste maybe
(10:18):
by nol What do you think playing the theme song?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Absolutely, Historical Records.
Speaker 6 (10:29):
You are now listening to Historical.
Speaker 7 (10:33):
To make history, you got to have struggles to make history, you.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
Got to show poised.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Cannot be quiet.
Speaker 7 (10:38):
Loud as a riot to make history, you gotta make
some noise.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
But man, I mean just the first from the first
moment that I heard that theme song, I fully understood
what this show was about. The idea of you have
to have poise, you know, all of these notions of
the types of historical figures that you're discussing, which for
some people you might consider them kind of if we're
using like hip hop terms, kind of deep cuts. Like
a lot of these folks I was not personally super
(11:07):
super aware of. There were a few that I was,
and then more than that, ones that I that I
wasn't familiar with, people like Ida tar Bell, who is
like a very important investigative journalist who was, you know,
the subject of the very first episode. Each episode also
features interviews with kind of subject matter experts, and that
one included a fabulous interview with Susan Orlean, who I'm
(11:28):
a big fan of from her work on The Orcive Thief,
which is a film that was adapted into one of
my favorite films of all time. Adaptation and just you know,
the idea of exploring some of these figures and giving
a little bit more kind of meat on the bones
for some of these folks that maybe folks have heard
of just kind of like in whispers or in little
snips and snaps here and there. But can you kind
(11:48):
of talk about how that aspect was so important And
it's a little hard to even choose which ones of
these figures that maybe folks aren't fully aware of to pick.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Yeah, I think, and what we really wanted, I mean,
which is exactly everything that you guys have been expressing
about how they're like to use your words, like deep
cuts and things and people that are just so prominent
in our everyday lives who have done things to really
change how things work these days and we just don't
(12:18):
know anything about. And so it is really tough to
choose because there are so many that we don't know about,
which is why we're you know, hoping to continue this
and continue highlighting people in history.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
But I think just.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
It's really about kind of what we wanted this first season,
because you know, we're still figuring it out. So what
we wanted the first season to be and what it
was that we wanted to express, So we wanted to
start with some who with people who were maybe like
people knew about them, but they didn't really know, so
it didn't seem too like, too far removed from what
people understand. And then you know, as we go on,
(12:52):
we would be more maybe a little bit more obscure.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I love that, like I've heard like someone says, oh,
I've heard the name, but I don't know the story, right,
And that's that. I think that also speaks to the
approachability here, you know, because I'm immediately sucked in right
with the with the pace and the exploration of this.
(13:15):
Choosing one historic figure has to be you know, an
embarrassment of riches, as they say, right, And one thing
that we are extremely excited to learn with you about
today is the true story from the civil rights that
a lot of people simply aren't aware of.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
They may have heard the name Claudette col they've definitely
heard the name Rosa Parks, but they may not understand
the full detail behind these two historical figures. As you
(13:58):
said earlier, you have incredibly interested in Colvin well before
Historical Records becomes a show.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
So we'd love to we'd.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Love to learn maybe, uh, we'd love to learn the
full story. Maybe we can start with what people know
about Rosa Parks.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Yeah, so what people know about Rosa Parks is that
she sat during the Montgomery bus boycott. She sat on
the bus in the section that was marked off for whites,
and then she refused to give up her seat for
a white woman and then she ended up being dragged
off the bus going to jail, and it started this
whole movement. What people don't know is that Claudette Colvin,
(14:39):
who was younger than Rosa Parks, was actually she did
it before Rosa did. So Claudette was very young, and
you know, she goes, you would go to school on
the on the bus, and so essentially essentially she just
did the same thing. She didn't get off the bus
when they asked her to, so then they dragged off
the bus and then they took her to jail and
(15:00):
they put her in an adult jail sale instead of
with when she's fifteen, Yes, when she's fifteen, they put
her in with the adults when she was supposed to
be with you know, the juveniles.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
And so then her friends went ran and told her family.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Like what was going on, and then it became this
whole thing and they got her out and then as
she grew up, she had to like move. She ended
up having to move because of all the harassment that
was coming from the white people in the area, Like
her family and her neighborhood and her community would stay
up on her block all night and like keep watch
to make sure nobody was coming for her.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
And she ended up having a leave and she moved
to New York.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
But was what was also really interesting about her for
me is that she she had been learning she was
a part of like the in in DOUAACP. She was
part of the NAACP and she was and she was
a part of the group that Rosa Parks was a
part of the organized group that essentially like created or
or got the Montgomery bus Boy got started.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
And so Rosa Parks was one of her mentors. And
so the story.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Well as I learned, what I've learned is that she
she wasn't able to be the one that was that
became well known for it, or to be the face
of the movement, essentially because she was younger, and because
she was darker skinned, and because they just they just
felt like Rosa Parks was more palatable for people that.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
You know, I've been Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
I mean, I've been listening to some interviews with Colvin,
who is still alive with us thankfully and as an
absolutely delightful human being. And there was a piece on
I think it was CBS News. It was like one
of the morning show segments where you know, when she
was arrested, they basically threw the book at her and
accused her of all kinds of, you know, felonies, including
(16:40):
like attacking police officers. She was accused of swearing at
them and clawing them and all of these horrible things
that she of course did not do. And then ultimately
a lot of those you know, more heinous kind of
charges were stripped due to you know, the NAACP's actions
and lawyers and things like that that were later, but
(17:01):
that charge that remained of her getting arrested, it did
remain on her record up until about three years ago
a she petitioned. That was during the Floyd the George
Floyd riots and protests. She decided she wanted to get
that stricken from her record, and she petitioned to do that,
(17:22):
and the judge who had that stricken from her record expunged.
They meet for the very first time on this CBS
Morning segment, and it was just the sweetest thing. She's
just so grateful and she barely knows what to say,
and it is an African American man, and I think
that was just a moment that was really powerful for
both of them to have that meeting. So that was
(17:43):
just again seeing her personality and how she kind of
explained the situation. But one thing I thought was really interesting.
We've talked in the past about women's suffrage movements, and
there was a whole period where women would wear these
sharp hat pins or hair pins in their hair, and
so if they were attacked by men, they would have
way of defending themselves. And Colvin talks about when she
(18:03):
was incarcerated, how she wished she had one of these
because she didn't know, you know, what was going to
happen to her in this adult jail when she was
locked up, and how she was scared to fall asleep,
you know, less she be assaulted.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
So I mean, this is all these.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
Stakes are very very high for this young woman who
is obviously very brave and put herself in this situation.
I'm just wondering, you know how you see that kind
of legacy. As she's talking about this stuff, you know,
thinking about this so many years back, she said, she
remembers the click of the key in the.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Jail cell and all of that. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
It's just the legacy of it is so fascinating to me,
and it's so neat that we can still hear this
directly from her. I was wondering if you'd seen any
of those interviews or kind of explore more of how
she looks back on it today.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I haven't done much since since writing the song about
more research on cloud it, so I haven't actually seen
the interview, but I will definitely look it up after.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah, I highly recommend it's a great watch.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
And let's go to another thing, because I know a
lot of our fellow listeners are going to be curious
on this one. Nimini, there's something you said which is
I think a very troubling aspect of the story. How
Colvin ended up getting for lack of a better word,
sidelined right, how she became a deep cut despite doing
(19:23):
something so heroic. From what I understand, it's very important
that we make this clear for the audience. Colvin was
Colvin became a victim of attempts at PR or branding campaigns, because,
as you said, there was the skin color issue as
the movement leader saw it, and perhaps even more importantly,
(19:47):
the fact that she was unmarried and pregnant at the time.
When we talk about this internal decision for folks to
sort of orchestrate Rosa Park in place of this earlier
person who did the same thing, what can we learn
(20:08):
about I mean, it seems like very morally gray kind
of decision. What do you think was going on? And
perhaps do we do we agree or disagree with the
reasoning of the movement leaders?
Speaker 5 (20:23):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Man, that is the question that's I want to say.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
I hope this doesn't sound bad, but I feel like
I would say I like, morally obviously I would disagree,
but I think just realistically, with how the world, how
America works, and the time in which everything was happened,
I would say I agree. I think you know, as
(20:50):
a dark skinned black woman in America, colorism is very
real and I experienced different treatment, and I have experienced blatant,
just like microaggressions and racism compared to the lighter, my
light of skin black women. And so I recognize that
if in a way, especially during that time. You know,
if you want a certain thing to move forward, you
(21:10):
have to think about what's best for the mission and
what's best like what's going to get people, what people
are going to pay attention to. And I think because
they already don't pay attention to darker skinned people and
didn't see them for us as humans at the time,
that it might have been more difficult to push a
message across.
Speaker 5 (21:30):
So yeah, that's what I would say. I think that's
a tough one.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
I know, No, I'm totally with you, and the way
you guys handle it on historical records, I think is
really admirable because you do address that question, you do
address that kind of moral gray area. But at the
end of the day, it is sort of about you know,
it's and I say, Claudette knew that this decision was
important and understood that, you know, that she needed to
(21:55):
take that back seats and that it was important for
someone maybe that was had that prominence, was a little older,
was part of the NAACP, be that kind of face
of the movement. So I don't know, I just think
that calculation, while maybe question easy to question or easy
to kind of look sideways at, made perfect sense at
the time and maybe maximize the.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Impact of the movement.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
And then of course Claudette did ultimately get her due
and was very well respected within the movement, even though
she may be overshadowed big picture historically speaking, you know by.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Rosa Parks, and Rosa Parks being the mentor to Claudette
is also or a mentor is also another part of
the story. There's a there's that famous quote that Rosa
Parks made after the fact, and she said, if the
White press got a hold of that information, meaning the
personal details about Claudette's life, they would have had a
(22:48):
field date. They call her a bad kid, her case
wouldn't have a chance. So there's also I think this
argument that they they may have said they were in
some way protecting this kid. You know, this is a child.
We have to remember that. It's it's a fascinating story,
(23:08):
and I know we got to as you said, Noel
the the judge who expunged that that conviction, way after
the fact. But could you tell us then how you
personally first began learning about Colvin's story.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Yeah, so I actually learned a little bit about it before,
like years before the podcast. So my mom my mom
was in prison for a while, and so she was
a part of this writing group and she was assigned
a project to write about a historical figure, and lo
(23:46):
and behold, she chose Claude Covid. And so, you know,
when we would have our phone calls, like she would
she would tell me about like what she had been
learning about Claude, and I was like, oh my god,
like wait, wait a minute, I thought it was Rosa Park.
So then so I started to learn about from my
mom through her writing projects, and so and then after that,
(24:07):
when and and then I just learned more about her
as I was recording the episode and looking at all
the research and to write the song about her.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
And with this too, this is something that I think
is brilliant about historical records. It is all too easy
when we're learning about history to feel that we're forced
to interrogate dusty tones. You know, there's someone lecturing time
and date to you names of people that we might
(24:41):
not ever meet. But historical records brings history alive by
doing a psychological thing that I'm quite a fan of,
which is encoding information through music. Could you tell us
a little bit about your songwriting process on historical records
(25:02):
and how how you guys encapsulate uh these these deep
cuts of history in a way that's approachable again to
even like my six year old niece thinks I'm cool
to get that.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
So my songwriting processes it like differs, but specifically for
this song. So I get I get a research packet,
like someone does a lot of research. And then I
get that packet and then I go through. Well, first,
you know, they were like, hey, do.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
You want to write this song about Claudic Cole?
Speaker 3 (25:34):
And I was like, one second, let me see about
google is and yeah.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
So then then I'm like, yeah, oh, I got you,
so cool.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
And so I look through the research packet that they
give me and then I create my own own I
create my own document and then I'll put like the
information that I feel like I would want to include.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
In a song, I'll put that on my document. And
then I go and I do my own.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Research, listen to her interviews and do everything I need
to do, and also get my my own research and
put it in the document as well. And then I
go through and I'm like, okay, well, what's a theme?
What were the things that stuck out to me in
this research and in her story and then what like
what can I create from that?
Speaker 5 (26:10):
And so I actually wrote two songs for Claudette.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
The first one I wrote was it was it was slower,
It was more like jazzy, like bluesy at a James style,
and it was about and it was more about like
the particular moment of her being pulled, dragged off of
the bus and taken to jail. So it was about
(26:34):
that specific that day. And so then I like sent
it over and they're like, oh, this is great. And
then I got really sick. I was really sick, and
I was in bed for like a day and I
was listening to the song and I was like.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
I was like, I think this needs to be like
more upbeat, like this is for kids.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
I like this song and for me that lay down
the list do but this is I needed like keep
in mind my audiences. And so I was like, you
know what, let me like bake something more a beat.
And also like, let me just wrap this is a
hip podcast. Why am I trying to do.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
Blues right now?
Speaker 3 (27:02):
I could do that another time, like, so I was like,
let me just do some rapping. So then I went
back into my document got more research, and I was like, okay,
so there's not like enough essentially here. I mean, I
could have stretched it, but I don't like to like
make things like I don't like fluff. So I was like,
there's not too too much. There's a lot there, but
too much for like a full like three and a
half four minute song with me talking really fast. So
(27:23):
I was like, Okay, then what else can I talk about?
Let me just talk about her entire life. Great, because
I think her life is so interesting. So I was like, great,
she got the sister, she was adopted. Like I was like, oh,
there's all these things that like I think are cool
to also humanize her, and it's like she's not just
the being dragged off the bus and being and not
being a part of the movement, and she's also like
a whole entire human being who had a life before
(27:45):
this and who had a life after this.
Speaker 5 (27:46):
So I was like, let's just humanize her and let's
do that. So then I just like wrote it.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I wrote it in a few hours, and then I
recorded it in my closet and then I just sent it.
Speaker 5 (27:54):
Over and then they were like.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Meminy, this is amazing.
Speaker 5 (27:59):
Okay, the other side. I spent like weeks on it, and.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
That's how the inspiration goes, you know.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
I mean like you just in like a moment where
something hits you and you just kind of churn it
out like in a heartbeat. And I think it really
shows because this song that we're going to hear in
a bit is just kind of, you know, full of inspiration,
and you know, it does make me kind of look
back to at some of Colvin's kind of quotable quotes,
and there's one in particular that she says a lot
(28:27):
in interviews and then I really love and that has
a poetry to it as well, she says when asked,
like why she didn't get up from that seat, because
it's crazy too.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
They apparently it was not only it wasn't.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
Just one seat, it was four seats because like whites
and our blacks were black people were not allowed to
sit next to or adjacent to white people, so she
had to give up four.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Seats, which is just bonkers.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
And when asked why she didn't want to get up,
she said, history glued me to the seat. I felt
like sojourner Truth was pushing down on one shoulder and
Harriet Tubman was pushed down on the other saying sit
down girl, and I was glued to my seat. I
don't know, there's just something powerful and really expressive about that.
That kind of I think sums the whole thing up.
And I think you achieved that same kind of poetry
(29:13):
in your.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Song Oh thank You. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
I was very inspired by that because in the like
in the first song, I did use a lot of
her quotes from interviews and I put them in there,
and that was a big one where I was like,
I also wrote a line on that as well, because
I just thought I.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
Was very inspired by that, because I don't know, just.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
To be so young and to be so confident, so
headstrong and just like know what you want and know
that you're not being treated right, and to be able
to stand up for that.
Speaker 5 (29:38):
That's just like that. I feel like you don't come
across that.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
It's one of those things that people with a benefit
of retrospect will imagine themselves doing, you know, to look
back and say, oh, I could have I would have
done that. But all too often in the moment, we
we see that what people like to think of themselves
(30:03):
doing versus what they will do can be to very
different things. One other part of Colvin's statements that really
stood out in a heartbreaking way in several interviews is
the context that she gives, not just the more poetic
historical line of feeling glued to the seat, but she
(30:26):
often says, look, if the lady was elderly, I might
have moved, And that to me was a sort of damning,
heartbreaking look at the context of the time, you know
what I mean, because we get the feeling that Claudette
was clearly able to discern that. You know, it's not
(30:51):
like you're giving up your seat for someone with mobility
issues or an elderly person.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
The very definition of the idea of privilege. I mean,
that's sort of work invented. Yeah, I know, you're one
hundred percent on the money there ben One thing I
love too about the format of historical records is how
in your segments where you have interviews with kind of
subject matter experts, you have a actual facts to quote
our friend Lauren vogelbab small child doing the interviewing, and
(31:20):
you kind of moderate it really And there's a wonderful
segment on the claud Ut Coleman episode where I'm sorry
the young young girl's name is Escaping Me. But interviews
Rock Sane Gay about kind of the civil rights movement
and about being an activist. And one thing that the
segment kind of leaves you with is this idea that
anyone could be an activist and that you know, there's
(31:43):
always you know, while we sometimes look at like the
civil rights movement is something from the past, very much
still the movement needs to persist and needs to continue,
and that there is, to quote Rok Sane, you know,
still a lot of work to be done. I just
wonder if you see, you know, how you see that
idea of anyone can be an activist, and you know
you by doing this podcast, you are being an activist,
(32:04):
and don't anything you might say to young people about
how to you know, continue telling these kinds of stories
and to continue standing up for what's right.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
I mean, you know, parting words of wisdom or anything like.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, and what they take away from historical records.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
Yeah, okay. I never even considered myself an activist by
doing this podcast. So I guess that just goes to
show that I mean, if you like.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Have some information, if you know, if you have some
information on something and you share it in whatever capacity,
whether that's creatively making your own work, writing a story,
writing a song, creating a podcast, or even just like
talking to your friends about about something that you're passionate
(32:50):
about that you feel like. And activism doesn't have to
be It doesn't have to be I feel like for me,
I always thought activism was like I have to be
in the streets, I have to be like getting shot
by rubber bullets.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
And but I.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Think it could be as simple as literally writing a letter,
literally writing a letter.
Speaker 5 (33:07):
I feel like it could be anything simple.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
That's why I thought the quote was so powerful or that,
you know, the piece, because it just shows how anyone
can do this. It doesn't have to be this grand,
you know, high minded idea of what you're talking about,
like being out in the streets, you know, being directly
at harm's way. It starts with just talking to people
and sharing and also just in our own way not
standing you know, not standing for injustice right.
Speaker 5 (33:32):
And I think I think also it's so cute.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
There's a little a quote what she said her name
is escaping me as well, but with Roxane Gay when
she's interviewing her and the young the little child or
what you said, and Roxanne was like yeah, and she's like,
there's we have a lot of work to do. But
as you said, and then the little girl was like, well,
how much work do we have to do?
Speaker 5 (33:52):
I thought it was so sweet.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
And then I'm like, well, now she's going to go
to her friends and be like, well, you we had
a lot of work to do, so let's get started.
Speaker 5 (34:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
Yeah, Well, and Roxanne almost doesn't know how to answer
that because she is flummexed by that, where she's like,
I asked myself this every single day, and it's like,
you know, while you don't want to let the weight
of the negative things in the world kind of crush you,
you know you do need to kind of always be
moving forward, always be asking questions and never standing for injustice,
(34:26):
you know, and in our own way. I think we
can all do that in some small way, even if
we're not necessarily, you know, out there in the streets
being shot at by rubber books.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
The way, the way I like to put it, Limity,
is that the human race is a team sport. The
human race is the ultimate group project, right, just like
in school, and there are lessons that surround us. History
is a continuing conversation. It's not really a past tense thing,
and as we often say here on the show, history
(34:57):
is way closer than it looks in the rearview mirror.
We want to thank you again so much for spending
time with us. We have a special treat for our
ridiculous historians at the very end of this episode. But
before we go off to various adventures, we have to
ask where can people learn more about your work, not
(35:21):
just with historical records, both story Pirates, your background at
sketch comedy and if I'm not telling tales out of
school a little bit of theater.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
Oh yeah, well, you can learn more about me on
my website www dot Nimini dot com. And that's Nimini
n as in November, I am as in March E
and as in November e dot com.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
And folks, that is our show. We are not as
they say, blowing smoke. Historical records is awesome. In full disclosure, Noel,
you're affiliated with this project as well?
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Correct?
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Oh yeah, I've had the absolute pleasure to work with
Lee and the story Pirates, folks, and you know the
Quest Love team.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
I didn't do anything creatively.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
I just helped kind of be the liaison between the
outside production companies and iHeart and they've just been incredible.
Lee Overstreet as a wonderful person and an absolute creative
genius and such an incredible voice when it comes to
telling these stories that are of course geared towards kids,
but like we said earlier, absolutely applicable to so many
other types of folks and walks of life. And you know,
(36:28):
I just think it's a fabulous show and I'm really
proud of what they've made.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Agreed, big, big thanks to our super producer, mister Max Williams,
Big thanks to Alex Williams. Spoilers, folks, listen through our
thank yous, because we do have a treat at the end.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
Yes, Ben, it's true you had the brilliant idea of
saving the best for last. This is the song that
we were discussing the whole time, that Nimini wrote herself
lyrically and was produced in conjunction with the team at
Story Pirates and Questloves Crew.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
And we just are so stoked about it.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
Then you absolutely texted the group the moment you heard
it about how.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Excited you were about it.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
It really does have a bit of an earwormy hook,
and it tells the story brilliantly.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Stem to Stern some big, big thanks to the good
folks at Historical Records, of course, huge thanks to Neminy.
This is what we're talking about when we say education through.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Music, indeed and advance less you know the usual thanks
of course to our guests them anywhere, the folks over
at Historical Records, Jonathan Strickland, the quister, A J.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Bahamas, Jacob's the Puzzler.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
And so without further ado, we cannot wait to share
with you Nemini's song about Claudette Colvin.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
We don't have to wait here. It is right now.
See you next time, folks.
Speaker 7 (37:51):
Claude Debt that's my name, Miss Alabama. Born and raised
this Montgomery to be spacistic.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Hope you don't.
Speaker 7 (37:58):
Mind these on the ristic see your nine zero five
thirty nine, the birth date of a future leaders civil
rights activist, The catalyst to be Montgomery Bus Boycott again
with me, Montgomery Bus Boycott, that is correct.
Speaker 6 (38:10):
A lot of people.
Speaker 7 (38:10):
Don't know about the juicy tidbit. Couldn't be the face
of the movement because I wasn't ridging because of my
complexion I'm never in the press, just thinking I was
only fifteen, fellow with my routine.
Speaker 5 (38:18):
And the segregat of see.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Years after that, I curve and I couldn't find work,
and I.
Speaker 7 (38:22):
Moved to New York and nurse.
Speaker 6 (38:24):
It began woman. Nine before there was Claudet Gorman, and
it began woman.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Did you know?
Speaker 6 (38:35):
Did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat? Nine
months before Rother he was Claude Gorman.
Speaker 7 (38:41):
Let me start from the beginning. My dad left, Mama's
wallet was sin me see. I was born Claude that Austin.
Then I went to live with my uncle and my aunt,
and that's how I got the name.
Speaker 5 (38:51):
Calvin.
Speaker 7 (38:51):
Had a little sister e I was a oh that
lost her to poly yoga.
Speaker 5 (38:55):
Only knows my pain.
Speaker 7 (38:56):
I was so fi yo logically strange, looking to you.
Speaker 5 (38:59):
Washington High School.
Speaker 7 (39:00):
I started going there in nineteen fifty two. I was
in the city, a place I couldn't walk to, so
right in the bus is what I had to do.
It was nineteen fifty five. I didn't give up my seat.
They called the police and they arrested in me. But
I had been learning that by my ancestry. And then
the youth come.
Speaker 6 (39:13):
Up with AAA se pain, So what said, I.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Know my constradutional rights.
Speaker 7 (39:16):
There was an empty rubberside and he said, this isn't right,
Jim cross. There's black kids to the crossing the white.
Speaker 6 (39:20):
We always got to be behind them.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
And this said, I'm like, put me off the bus.
Speaker 6 (39:24):
I didn't fight work fuss.
Speaker 7 (39:25):
I didn't feel fair because I was young, and tempt
to put me in.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
An adult fell with no phone call.
Speaker 5 (39:29):
But my friends went to find my mom.
Speaker 6 (39:30):
And it began with me nine before they was corn
And if begal with me?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Did you know?
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Did you know?
Speaker 6 (39:43):
I wouldn't give up my seats?
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Nine? Before?
Speaker 6 (39:46):
Brother?
Speaker 7 (39:49):
One year later we had brought a versus Gail. I
was one of five plaint tests talking about how the
law had failed at the bust and we wasn't gonna
take in the federal court. They made the decision the
Supreme Court.
Speaker 6 (39:59):
They made that decision in.
Speaker 7 (40:00):
The bus segregation was against the competition.
Speaker 5 (40:02):
And they ended it properently. And to begin with me.
Speaker 6 (40:08):
Nine and the beginning with me, did you know didn't know?
I wouldn't give up nine?
Speaker 7 (40:22):
That's my main Miss Alabama Born and.
Speaker 5 (40:25):
Race episode.
Speaker 6 (40:29):
Brithday you will nine pause again with me.
Speaker 5 (40:39):
Oh, I almost forgot.
Speaker 7 (40:41):
The city of Montgomery, Alabama, declared Mark second Claudette Colvin Day.
Speaker 4 (40:50):
For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much
for tuning in. Let's hear it for the Man, the myth,
the legend, our super producer, mister Max Williams. The crowd
goes wild, it does do that? Hey, who are those
dulcet tones over there? Why I spy mister Noel Brown?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Is your little eye?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
And my big one too? Funny, I have very disparate
eye sizes.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
It's true it's a podcast, but you can use your
imagination and picture Ben's bizarro eye situation. I know, actually, Ben,
that's not true. You're being hard on yourself. Gorgeous, Oh,
thank you. I like to gaze into them.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
If anything, I do have what they call rom com eyes,
and I appreciate that they.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Don't know what that means. It's something I made up,
like bedroom eyes. Who knows?
Speaker 1 (01:11):
You know, that's up to your Particulous Historians write to
us and let us know what.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Rom com eyes are.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
What Ben Bolen's eyes look like to you?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, that's me.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I'm going by Ben Mike check Bollin for today's episode,
and Noel, you and I have something very very special
here at the end of the year. We're gosh. We
are both avid fans of music. You know, I particularly
am a huge fan of hip hop. You are a
multi instrumentalist.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
And we both go out for history occasionally, you know,
every sort of talk about it from time to time.
Every yes, one hundred percent. I do like to make
beats in my spare time, and you also have been
known to drop some firebars in your spare time time
to Oh my gosh, thank you, I'm twitter painted.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
This is also this is also the time for us
to say that we might be working on a little
music off the books together. True, but we are doing
something song related today, an exploration that we are so
excited about. We are this is a true story. We
are hanging out with the creator, the host, I dare say,
(02:25):
the musician behind the fantastic podcast Historical Records.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Noel.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Can you help me with the introduction here?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Boy? Can I?
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Ever? We love to welcome to Ridiculous History, the wonderful
and nemone ware of Historical Records Fame. Yeah, we're really
good at intros, aren't we, Neminy. It's like sort of
our thing. We don't even need to. We don't even
need to go on from here. We'll just like let
it lie with the introne. I'm kidding, Nemini, Welcome to
whatever this show is called. This is called ridiculous History
(02:57):
is what this is called.
Speaker 5 (02:59):
Thank you having me, very exciting me here.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Of course, So you know, Ben kind of set it up.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
You know, Historical Records is a I guess it's been
described to me often as history with a beat. It's
a podcast kind of created in conjunction with the Wonderful
Story Pirates kind of children's podcast network company production House
and also Questloves production company and yourself. And I've described
(03:27):
it to many folks. It's sort of like a almost
like an audio hip hop themed Yo Gabba Gabba that
very much leans on history. And I hope you take
that as a compliment, and I think Yo Gabba Gabba rules.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
It does.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
I definitely that was definitely my show back in the day.
I've never heard it described like that. I hope you
don't mind.
Speaker 5 (03:45):
I think I'm gonna steal it.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Oh steal away, an explosive fusion of hip hop and history,
described as Taylor made for music loving kids and families,
and to be honest, a. When I was hearing some
of these episodes earlier, I started sending them to my
(04:09):
nieces just to just.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
To let kids know that I'm sure, take you important.
It's important to let to remind them occasionally. But you know,
it's neat because it really is something that is, you know,
certainly appealing to kids, but it has such a broad
appeal to adults as well, because there's so much stuff
kind of little Easter eggs hidden that might fly over kids' heads,
(04:33):
but it's just really multi layered and just an absolute
joy to listen to. Can you tell us a little
bit about kind of how this came together and and
sort of how your role is sort of solidified in
this in this world of historical records.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, so historical records, as you mentioned, it came it's
from the beautiful mind of the people at Story Priors,
Lee Overtree, myself, questlove Jonathan Glickman, and so it was
maybe it was like, I feel like during the pandemic,
maybe right after the pandemic. So a few years ago
we came to me with this idea of this new
(05:06):
project that he had coming together and wanted me to
audition to be the host and I think at the time,
I had been doing story parts and voiceover for a while,
which was never a lane I thought I would go into.
And I wanted to be like an actress, like I
wanted to do theater.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
I wanted to do TV.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
So I was like, Okay, I need to like take
a break from the voice over and focus more on
this other stuff.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
So at first I was like, no, I don't want
to audition.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
And so then he comes back a few months later
and it's just like, Niminie, can you just please just
send me to anything, just send me whatever, and like
send me something. And then just because I lovely, he
such just media, I was like fine or whatever. So
then I just recorded some stuff I was having fun,
sent it in and he's like, great, Jonathan.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
Glickman wants to meet you. And I was like, oh, okay, great.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
So I was actually I was babies. I was a
nanny at the time, and I was at work and
the mom she was she worked from home. So I
was like, hey, like, is it okay? I have this interview?
Can you like take the baby for like ten minutes?
So I kept like have this interview and she was
so amazed. She was like oh my god, of course,
So she took the baby and they went in the
living room, and then I just like had an interview
with Jonathan Gickman and with Lee and with Jamie Sokka,
(06:06):
who's also like the creator of story parts with Lee,
and then I mean it just went really well. And
then from there I kind of just I got the job.
And then we started brainstorming on what did we want
it to look like, what is the format, what are
our themes, like, how who are the people we want
to talk about, and what is the message we want
to you know, all the background stuff. And then do
(06:29):
I want to also be a writer, and like what
does my role look like as the producer creat a producer?
Speaker 5 (06:33):
And so then we talked.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
About all of that, and then I mean then we
just like started Roland and I wrote I think I
wrote the first.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
Song of my calaued it coman song. I wrote that
like two three years ago.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
It's been a second and so yeah, and so that's
that's how it came about and how I became a
part of it.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Pandemic kind of created a time warp for all of us.
It's a little hard to even envision a boy.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, and uh. I would also love to share a
couple of fun facts. Not to put you too much
in the spotlight here, but uh, nimini, so we could
get to know you. I am incredibly curious in your
background as a polyglot. Is it true that you speak
for languages?
Speaker 5 (07:13):
It is true.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I guess I can say that I'm proficient in three
and the fourth is like a beginner intermediate.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Oh that's great.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
I'm total at three and the first one i'm proficient
and mildly is Irish, so I'm not that great at
the one I mean.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
And I alsoy you know, I was once a small
German boy, as I said on the show, and I
was born in Germany and went to proper German kindergarten.
But I think I probably still barely speak German at
a kindergarten level.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
So what are the ones you're proficient in?
Speaker 5 (07:40):
So I'm proficient? I mean obviously I always say English
because you know that a number.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Counts, it counts.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Every win's a win.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
Yeah, and then French. French is when I started learning. Second,
I love French, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
And in Spanish, you know the basics, because also my
brother's like girl, well, fiance longtime part or as Mexican,
and she always spoke Spanish to be growing up, so
I just like learned.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
From her and then I started living Korean during the pandemic.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Oh no, pandemic handle I love it. Yeah, hand goal
the alphabet.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Oh yes, I'm not that proficient.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Well we're all doing but that's incredible.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
So, you know, the creative side of it super interests
me because I mean it is like any kind of
show like this is going to have a lot of
folks involved.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
But what did that.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Kind of creative participation sort of end up becoming, you.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
Know, for you with the with historical records.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
With the show, Yeah, I was like, you know how
like like how much were you involved in the songwriting,
the day to day creation and also we're picking the
picking the historical figures that you guys wanted to cover.
Speaker 5 (08:52):
Yeah, oh yeah, definitely I think I was.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
I was very involved in the process, especially with like
at the way beginning a figure, as I saying before,
like the themes and what we wanted to do and
like how we wanted to format it and like how
we wanted my character to be because I also have
a character Niminy on story prior its who is different
from this character Niminy on Historical Records.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
So then we were talking about like.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Bouncing around ideas of do we want her to have
a sidekit, and what do we want the sidekick to
look like and such, and just doing research on people that.
Speaker 5 (09:25):
We wanted to talk about in the podcast.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Doing going through the scripts, working at making edits, making comments,
listening to the drafts.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
I'm a part of like every part of.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
It, but I'm especially part of the songwriting portion the
music because music is a first love of mine and
i love writing music, and so I've written a few songs,
a few choruses and a few full songs for the
podcast that I'm very excited about.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
And yeah, I mean I'm just really involved, like everywhere.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And one thing that really stands out and differentiates Historical
Records is that there's this narrative spine of music. It
is a character in the story right each episode, it
moves us through. We were talking a bit off air,
we'd love to give people just a sample taste maybe
(10:18):
by nol What do you think playing the theme song?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Absolutely, Historical Records.
Speaker 6 (10:29):
You are now listening to Historical.
Speaker 7 (10:33):
To make history, you got to have struggles to make history, you.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
Got to show poised.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Cannot be quiet.
Speaker 7 (10:38):
Loud as a riot to make history, you gotta make
some noise.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
But man, I mean just the first from the first
moment that I heard that theme song, I fully understood
what this show was about. The idea of you have
to have poise, you know, all of these notions of
the types of historical figures that you're discussing, which for
some people you might consider them kind of if we're
using like hip hop terms, kind of deep cuts. Like
a lot of these folks I was not personally super
(11:07):
super aware of. There were a few that I was,
and then more than that, ones that I that I
wasn't familiar with, people like Ida tar Bell, who is
like a very important investigative journalist who was, you know,
the subject of the very first episode. Each episode also
features interviews with kind of subject matter experts, and that
one included a fabulous interview with Susan Orlean, who I'm
(11:28):
a big fan of from her work on The Orcive Thief,
which is a film that was adapted into one of
my favorite films of all time. Adaptation and just you know,
the idea of exploring some of these figures and giving
a little bit more kind of meat on the bones
for some of these folks that maybe folks have heard
of just kind of like in whispers or in little
snips and snaps here and there. But can you kind
(11:48):
of talk about how that aspect was so important And
it's a little hard to even choose which ones of
these figures that maybe folks aren't fully aware of to pick.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Yeah, I think, and what we really wanted, I mean,
which is exactly everything that you guys have been expressing
about how they're like to use your words, like deep
cuts and things and people that are just so prominent
in our everyday lives who have done things to really
change how things work these days and we just don't
(12:18):
know anything about. And so it is really tough to
choose because there are so many that we don't know about,
which is why we're you know, hoping to continue this
and continue highlighting people in history.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
But I think just.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
It's really about kind of what we wanted this first season,
because you know, we're still figuring it out. So what
we wanted the first season to be and what it
was that we wanted to express, So we wanted to
start with some who with people who were maybe like
people knew about them, but they didn't really know, so
it didn't seem too like, too far removed from what
people understand. And then you know, as we go on,
(12:52):
we would be more maybe a little bit more obscure.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I love that, like I've heard like someone says, oh,
I've heard the name, but I don't know the story, right,
And that's that. I think that also speaks to the
approachability here, you know, because I'm immediately sucked in right
with the with the pace and the exploration of this.
(13:15):
Choosing one historic figure has to be you know, an
embarrassment of riches, as they say, right, And one thing
that we are extremely excited to learn with you about
today is the true story from the civil rights that
a lot of people simply aren't aware of.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
They may have heard the name Claudette col they've definitely
heard the name Rosa Parks, but they may not understand
the full detail behind these two historical figures. As you
(13:58):
said earlier, you have incredibly interested in Colvin well before
Historical Records becomes a show.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
So we'd love to we'd.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Love to learn maybe, uh, we'd love to learn the
full story. Maybe we can start with what people know
about Rosa Parks.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Yeah, so what people know about Rosa Parks is that
she sat during the Montgomery bus boycott. She sat on
the bus in the section that was marked off for whites,
and then she refused to give up her seat for
a white woman and then she ended up being dragged
off the bus going to jail, and it started this
whole movement. What people don't know is that Claudette Colvin,
(14:39):
who was younger than Rosa Parks, was actually she did
it before Rosa did. So Claudette was very young, and
you know, she goes, you would go to school on
the on the bus, and so essentially essentially she just
did the same thing. She didn't get off the bus
when they asked her to, so then they dragged off
the bus and then they took her to jail and
(15:00):
they put her in an adult jail sale instead of
with when she's fifteen, Yes, when she's fifteen, they put
her in with the adults when she was supposed to
be with you know, the juveniles.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
And so then her friends went ran and told her family.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Like what was going on, and then it became this
whole thing and they got her out and then as
she grew up, she had to like move. She ended
up having to move because of all the harassment that
was coming from the white people in the area, Like
her family and her neighborhood and her community would stay
up on her block all night and like keep watch
to make sure nobody was coming for her.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
And she ended up having a leave and she moved
to New York.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
But was what was also really interesting about her for
me is that she she had been learning she was
a part of like the in in DOUAACP. She was
part of the NAACP and she was and she was
a part of the group that Rosa Parks was a
part of the organized group that essentially like created or
or got the Montgomery bus Boy got started.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
And so Rosa Parks was one of her mentors. And
so the story.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Well as I learned, what I've learned is that she
she wasn't able to be the one that was that
became well known for it, or to be the face
of the movement, essentially because she was younger, and because
she was darker skinned, and because they just they just
felt like Rosa Parks was more palatable for people that.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
You know, I've been Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
I mean, I've been listening to some interviews with Colvin,
who is still alive with us thankfully and as an
absolutely delightful human being. And there was a piece on
I think it was CBS News. It was like one
of the morning show segments where you know, when she
was arrested, they basically threw the book at her and
accused her of all kinds of, you know, felonies, including
(16:40):
like attacking police officers. She was accused of swearing at
them and clawing them and all of these horrible things
that she of course did not do. And then ultimately
a lot of those you know, more heinous kind of
charges were stripped due to you know, the NAACP's actions
and lawyers and things like that that were later, but
(17:01):
that charge that remained of her getting arrested, it did
remain on her record up until about three years ago
a she petitioned. That was during the Floyd the George
Floyd riots and protests. She decided she wanted to get
that stricken from her record, and she petitioned to do that,
(17:22):
and the judge who had that stricken from her record expunged.
They meet for the very first time on this CBS
Morning segment, and it was just the sweetest thing. She's
just so grateful and she barely knows what to say,
and it is an African American man, and I think
that was just a moment that was really powerful for
both of them to have that meeting. So that was
(17:43):
just again seeing her personality and how she kind of
explained the situation. But one thing I thought was really interesting.
We've talked in the past about women's suffrage movements, and
there was a whole period where women would wear these
sharp hat pins or hair pins in their hair, and
so if they were attacked by men, they would have
way of defending themselves. And Colvin talks about when she
(18:03):
was incarcerated, how she wished she had one of these
because she didn't know, you know, what was going to
happen to her in this adult jail when she was
locked up, and how she was scared to fall asleep,
you know, less she be assaulted.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
So I mean, this is all these.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
Stakes are very very high for this young woman who
is obviously very brave and put herself in this situation.
I'm just wondering, you know how you see that kind
of legacy. As she's talking about this stuff, you know,
thinking about this so many years back, she said, she
remembers the click of the key in the.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Jail cell and all of that. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
It's just the legacy of it is so fascinating to me,
and it's so neat that we can still hear this
directly from her. I was wondering if you'd seen any
of those interviews or kind of explore more of how
she looks back on it today.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I haven't done much since since writing the song about
more research on cloud it, so I haven't actually seen
the interview, but I will definitely look it up after.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah, I highly recommend it's a great watch.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
And let's go to another thing, because I know a
lot of our fellow listeners are going to be curious
on this one. Nimini, there's something you said which is
I think a very troubling aspect of the story. How
Colvin ended up getting for lack of a better word,
sidelined right, how she became a deep cut despite doing
(19:23):
something so heroic. From what I understand, it's very important
that we make this clear for the audience. Colvin was
Colvin became a victim of attempts at PR or branding campaigns, because,
as you said, there was the skin color issue as
the movement leader saw it, and perhaps even more importantly,
(19:47):
the fact that she was unmarried and pregnant at the time.
When we talk about this internal decision for folks to
sort of orchestrate Rosa Park in place of this earlier
person who did the same thing, what can we learn
(20:08):
about I mean, it seems like very morally gray kind
of decision. What do you think was going on? And
perhaps do we do we agree or disagree with the
reasoning of the movement leaders?
Speaker 5 (20:23):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Man, that is the question that's I want to say.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
I hope this doesn't sound bad, but I feel like
I would say I like, morally obviously I would disagree,
but I think just realistically, with how the world, how
America works, and the time in which everything was happened,
I would say I agree. I think you know, as
(20:50):
a dark skinned black woman in America, colorism is very
real and I experienced different treatment, and I have experienced blatant,
just like microaggressions and racism compared to the lighter, my
light of skin black women. And so I recognize that
if in a way, especially during that time. You know,
if you want a certain thing to move forward, you
(21:10):
have to think about what's best for the mission and
what's best like what's going to get people, what people
are going to pay attention to. And I think because
they already don't pay attention to darker skinned people and
didn't see them for us as humans at the time,
that it might have been more difficult to push a
message across.
Speaker 5 (21:30):
So yeah, that's what I would say. I think that's
a tough one.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
I know, No, I'm totally with you, and the way
you guys handle it on historical records, I think is
really admirable because you do address that question, you do
address that kind of moral gray area. But at the
end of the day, it is sort of about you know,
it's and I say, Claudette knew that this decision was
important and understood that, you know, that she needed to
(21:55):
take that back seats and that it was important for
someone maybe that was had that prominence, was a little older,
was part of the NAACP, be that kind of face
of the movement. So I don't know, I just think
that calculation, while maybe question easy to question or easy
to kind of look sideways at, made perfect sense at
the time and maybe maximize the.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Impact of the movement.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
And then of course Claudette did ultimately get her due
and was very well respected within the movement, even though
she may be overshadowed big picture historically speaking, you know by.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Rosa Parks, and Rosa Parks being the mentor to Claudette
is also or a mentor is also another part of
the story. There's a there's that famous quote that Rosa
Parks made after the fact, and she said, if the
White press got a hold of that information, meaning the
personal details about Claudette's life, they would have had a
(22:48):
field date. They call her a bad kid, her case
wouldn't have a chance. So there's also I think this
argument that they they may have said they were in
some way protecting this kid. You know, this is a child.
We have to remember that. It's it's a fascinating story,
(23:08):
and I know we got to as you said, Noel
the the judge who expunged that that conviction, way after
the fact. But could you tell us then how you
personally first began learning about Colvin's story.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Yeah, so I actually learned a little bit about it before,
like years before the podcast. So my mom my mom
was in prison for a while, and so she was
a part of this writing group and she was assigned
a project to write about a historical figure, and lo
(23:46):
and behold, she chose Claude Covid. And so, you know,
when we would have our phone calls, like she would
she would tell me about like what she had been
learning about Claude, and I was like, oh my god,
like wait, wait a minute, I thought it was Rosa Park.
So then so I started to learn about from my
mom through her writing projects, and so and then after that,
(24:07):
when and and then I just learned more about her
as I was recording the episode and looking at all
the research and to write the song about her.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
And with this too, this is something that I think
is brilliant about historical records. It is all too easy
when we're learning about history to feel that we're forced
to interrogate dusty tones. You know, there's someone lecturing time
and date to you names of people that we might
(24:41):
not ever meet. But historical records brings history alive by
doing a psychological thing that I'm quite a fan of,
which is encoding information through music. Could you tell us
a little bit about your songwriting process on historical records
(25:02):
and how how you guys encapsulate uh these these deep
cuts of history in a way that's approachable again to
even like my six year old niece thinks I'm cool
to get that.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
So my songwriting processes it like differs, but specifically for
this song. So I get I get a research packet,
like someone does a lot of research. And then I
get that packet and then I go through. Well, first,
you know, they were like, hey, do.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
You want to write this song about Claudic Cole?
Speaker 3 (25:34):
And I was like, one second, let me see about
google is and yeah.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
So then then I'm like, yeah, oh, I got you,
so cool.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
And so I look through the research packet that they
give me and then I create my own own I
create my own document and then I'll put like the
information that I feel like I would want to include.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
In a song, I'll put that on my document. And
then I go and I do my own.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Research, listen to her interviews and do everything I need
to do, and also get my my own research and
put it in the document as well. And then I
go through and I'm like, okay, well, what's a theme?
What were the things that stuck out to me in
this research and in her story and then what like
what can I create from that?
Speaker 5 (26:10):
And so I actually wrote two songs for Claudette.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
The first one I wrote was it was it was slower,
It was more like jazzy, like bluesy at a James style,
and it was about and it was more about like
the particular moment of her being pulled, dragged off of
the bus and taken to jail. So it was about
(26:34):
that specific that day. And so then I like sent
it over and they're like, oh, this is great. And
then I got really sick. I was really sick, and
I was in bed for like a day and I
was listening to the song and I was like.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
I was like, I think this needs to be like
more upbeat, like this is for kids.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
I like this song and for me that lay down
the list do but this is I needed like keep
in mind my audiences. And so I was like, you
know what, let me like bake something more a beat.
And also like, let me just wrap this is a
hip podcast. Why am I trying to do.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
Blues right now?
Speaker 3 (27:02):
I could do that another time, like, so I was like,
let me just do some rapping. So then I went
back into my document got more research, and I was like, okay,
so there's not like enough essentially here. I mean, I
could have stretched it, but I don't like to like
make things like I don't like fluff. So I was like,
there's not too too much. There's a lot there, but
too much for like a full like three and a
half four minute song with me talking really fast. So
(27:23):
I was like, Okay, then what else can I talk about?
Let me just talk about her entire life. Great, because
I think her life is so interesting. So I was like, great,
she got the sister, she was adopted. Like I was like, oh,
there's all these things that like I think are cool
to also humanize her, and it's like she's not just
the being dragged off the bus and being and not
being a part of the movement, and she's also like
a whole entire human being who had a life before
(27:45):
this and who had a life after this.
Speaker 5 (27:46):
So I was like, let's just humanize her and let's
do that. So then I just like wrote it.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I wrote it in a few hours, and then I
recorded it in my closet and then I just sent it.
Speaker 5 (27:54):
Over and then they were like.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Meminy, this is amazing.
Speaker 5 (27:59):
Okay, the other side. I spent like weeks on it, and.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
That's how the inspiration goes, you know.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
I mean like you just in like a moment where
something hits you and you just kind of churn it
out like in a heartbeat. And I think it really
shows because this song that we're going to hear in
a bit is just kind of, you know, full of inspiration,
and you know, it does make me kind of look
back to at some of Colvin's kind of quotable quotes,
and there's one in particular that she says a lot
(28:27):
in interviews and then I really love and that has
a poetry to it as well, she says when asked,
like why she didn't get up from that seat, because
it's crazy too.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
They apparently it was not only it wasn't.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
Just one seat, it was four seats because like whites
and our blacks were black people were not allowed to
sit next to or adjacent to white people, so she
had to give up four.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Seats, which is just bonkers.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
And when asked why she didn't want to get up,
she said, history glued me to the seat. I felt
like sojourner Truth was pushing down on one shoulder and
Harriet Tubman was pushed down on the other saying sit
down girl, and I was glued to my seat. I
don't know, there's just something powerful and really expressive about that.
That kind of I think sums the whole thing up.
And I think you achieved that same kind of poetry
(29:13):
in your.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Song Oh thank You. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
I was very inspired by that because in the like
in the first song, I did use a lot of
her quotes from interviews and I put them in there,
and that was a big one where I was like,
I also wrote a line on that as well, because
I just thought I.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
Was very inspired by that, because I don't know, just.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
To be so young and to be so confident, so
headstrong and just like know what you want and know
that you're not being treated right, and to be able
to stand up for that.
Speaker 5 (29:38):
That's just like that. I feel like you don't come
across that.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
It's one of those things that people with a benefit
of retrospect will imagine themselves doing, you know, to look
back and say, oh, I could have I would have
done that. But all too often in the moment, we
we see that what people like to think of themselves
(30:03):
doing versus what they will do can be to very
different things. One other part of Colvin's statements that really
stood out in a heartbreaking way in several interviews is
the context that she gives, not just the more poetic
historical line of feeling glued to the seat, but she
(30:26):
often says, look, if the lady was elderly, I might
have moved, And that to me was a sort of damning,
heartbreaking look at the context of the time, you know
what I mean, because we get the feeling that Claudette
was clearly able to discern that. You know, it's not
(30:51):
like you're giving up your seat for someone with mobility
issues or an elderly person.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
The very definition of the idea of privilege. I mean,
that's sort of work invented. Yeah, I know, you're one
hundred percent on the money there ben One thing I
love too about the format of historical records is how
in your segments where you have interviews with kind of
subject matter experts, you have a actual facts to quote
our friend Lauren vogelbab small child doing the interviewing, and
(31:20):
you kind of moderate it really And there's a wonderful
segment on the claud Ut Coleman episode where I'm sorry
the young young girl's name is Escaping Me. But interviews
Rock Sane Gay about kind of the civil rights movement
and about being an activist. And one thing that the
segment kind of leaves you with is this idea that
anyone could be an activist and that you know, there's
(31:43):
always you know, while we sometimes look at like the
civil rights movement is something from the past, very much
still the movement needs to persist and needs to continue,
and that there is, to quote Rok Sane, you know,
still a lot of work to be done. I just
wonder if you see, you know, how you see that
idea of anyone can be an activist, and you know
you by doing this podcast, you are being an activist,
(32:04):
and don't anything you might say to young people about
how to you know, continue telling these kinds of stories
and to continue standing up for what's right.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
I mean, you know, parting words of wisdom or anything like.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, and what they take away from historical records.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
Yeah, okay. I never even considered myself an activist by
doing this podcast. So I guess that just goes to
show that I mean, if you like.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Have some information, if you know, if you have some
information on something and you share it in whatever capacity,
whether that's creatively making your own work, writing a story,
writing a song, creating a podcast, or even just like
talking to your friends about about something that you're passionate
(32:50):
about that you feel like. And activism doesn't have to
be It doesn't have to be I feel like for me,
I always thought activism was like I have to be
in the streets, I have to be like getting shot
by rubber bullets.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
And but I.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Think it could be as simple as literally writing a letter,
literally writing a letter.
Speaker 5 (33:07):
I feel like it could be anything simple.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
That's why I thought the quote was so powerful or that,
you know, the piece, because it just shows how anyone
can do this. It doesn't have to be this grand,
you know, high minded idea of what you're talking about,
like being out in the streets, you know, being directly
at harm's way. It starts with just talking to people
and sharing and also just in our own way not
standing you know, not standing for injustice right.
Speaker 5 (33:32):
And I think I think also it's so cute.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
There's a little a quote what she said her name
is escaping me as well, but with Roxane Gay when
she's interviewing her and the young the little child or
what you said, and Roxanne was like yeah, and she's like,
there's we have a lot of work to do. But
as you said, and then the little girl was like, well,
how much work do we have to do?
Speaker 5 (33:52):
I thought it was so sweet.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
And then I'm like, well, now she's going to go
to her friends and be like, well, you we had
a lot of work to do, so let's get started.
Speaker 5 (34:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
Yeah, Well, and Roxanne almost doesn't know how to answer
that because she is flummexed by that, where she's like,
I asked myself this every single day, and it's like,
you know, while you don't want to let the weight
of the negative things in the world kind of crush you,
you know you do need to kind of always be
moving forward, always be asking questions and never standing for injustice,
(34:26):
you know, and in our own way. I think we
can all do that in some small way, even if
we're not necessarily, you know, out there in the streets
being shot at by rubber books.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
The way, the way I like to put it, Limity,
is that the human race is a team sport. The
human race is the ultimate group project, right, just like
in school, and there are lessons that surround us. History
is a continuing conversation. It's not really a past tense thing,
and as we often say here on the show, history
(34:57):
is way closer than it looks in the rearview mirror.
We want to thank you again so much for spending
time with us. We have a special treat for our
ridiculous historians at the very end of this episode. But
before we go off to various adventures, we have to
ask where can people learn more about your work, not
(35:21):
just with historical records, both story Pirates, your background at
sketch comedy and if I'm not telling tales out of
school a little bit of theater.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
Oh yeah, well, you can learn more about me on
my website www dot Nimini dot com. And that's Nimini
n as in November, I am as in March E
and as in November e dot com.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
And folks, that is our show. We are not as
they say, blowing smoke. Historical records is awesome. In full disclosure, Noel,
you're affiliated with this project as well?
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Correct?
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Oh yeah, I've had the absolute pleasure to work with
Lee and the story Pirates, folks, and you know the
Quest Love team.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
I didn't do anything creatively.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
I just helped kind of be the liaison between the
outside production companies and iHeart and they've just been incredible.
Lee Overstreet as a wonderful person and an absolute creative
genius and such an incredible voice when it comes to
telling these stories that are of course geared towards kids,
but like we said earlier, absolutely applicable to so many
other types of folks and walks of life. And you know,
(36:28):
I just think it's a fabulous show and I'm really
proud of what they've made.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Agreed, big, big thanks to our super producer, mister Max Williams,
Big thanks to Alex Williams. Spoilers, folks, listen through our
thank yous, because we do have a treat at the end.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
Yes, Ben, it's true you had the brilliant idea of
saving the best for last. This is the song that
we were discussing the whole time, that Nimini wrote herself
lyrically and was produced in conjunction with the team at
Story Pirates and Questloves Crew.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
And we just are so stoked about it.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
Then you absolutely texted the group the moment you heard
it about how.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Excited you were about it.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
It really does have a bit of an earwormy hook,
and it tells the story brilliantly.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Stem to Stern some big, big thanks to the good
folks at Historical Records, of course, huge thanks to Neminy.
This is what we're talking about when we say education through.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Music, indeed and advance less you know the usual thanks
of course to our guests them anywhere, the folks over
at Historical Records, Jonathan Strickland, the quister, A J.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Bahamas, Jacob's the Puzzler.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
And so without further ado, we cannot wait to share
with you Nemini's song about Claudette Colvin.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
We don't have to wait here. It is right now.
See you next time, folks.
Speaker 7 (37:51):
Claude Debt that's my name, Miss Alabama. Born and raised
this Montgomery to be spacistic.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Hope you don't.
Speaker 7 (37:58):
Mind these on the ristic see your nine zero five
thirty nine, the birth date of a future leaders civil
rights activist, The catalyst to be Montgomery Bus Boycott again
with me, Montgomery Bus Boycott, that is correct.
Speaker 6 (38:10):
A lot of people.
Speaker 7 (38:10):
Don't know about the juicy tidbit. Couldn't be the face
of the movement because I wasn't ridging because of my
complexion I'm never in the press, just thinking I was
only fifteen, fellow with my routine.
Speaker 5 (38:18):
And the segregat of see.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Years after that, I curve and I couldn't find work,
and I.
Speaker 7 (38:22):
Moved to New York and nurse.
Speaker 6 (38:24):
It began woman. Nine before there was Claudet Gorman, and
it began woman.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Did you know?
Speaker 6 (38:35):
Did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat? Nine
months before Rother he was Claude Gorman.
Speaker 7 (38:41):
Let me start from the beginning. My dad left, Mama's
wallet was sin me see. I was born Claude that Austin.
Then I went to live with my uncle and my aunt,
and that's how I got the name.
Speaker 5 (38:51):
Calvin.
Speaker 7 (38:51):
Had a little sister e I was a oh that
lost her to poly yoga.
Speaker 5 (38:55):
Only knows my pain.
Speaker 7 (38:56):
I was so fi yo logically strange, looking to you.
Speaker 5 (38:59):
Washington High School.
Speaker 7 (39:00):
I started going there in nineteen fifty two. I was
in the city, a place I couldn't walk to, so
right in the bus is what I had to do.
It was nineteen fifty five. I didn't give up my seat.
They called the police and they arrested in me. But
I had been learning that by my ancestry. And then
the youth come.
Speaker 6 (39:13):
Up with AAA se pain, So what said, I.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Know my constradutional rights.
Speaker 7 (39:16):
There was an empty rubberside and he said, this isn't right,
Jim cross. There's black kids to the crossing the white.
Speaker 6 (39:20):
We always got to be behind them.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
And this said, I'm like, put me off the bus.
Speaker 6 (39:24):
I didn't fight work fuss.
Speaker 7 (39:25):
I didn't feel fair because I was young, and tempt
to put me in.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
An adult fell with no phone call.
Speaker 5 (39:29):
But my friends went to find my mom.
Speaker 6 (39:30):
And it began with me nine before they was corn
And if begal with me?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Did you know?
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Did you know?
Speaker 6 (39:43):
I wouldn't give up my seats?
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Nine? Before?
Speaker 6 (39:46):
Brother?
Speaker 7 (39:49):
One year later we had brought a versus Gail. I
was one of five plaint tests talking about how the
law had failed at the bust and we wasn't gonna
take in the federal court. They made the decision the
Supreme Court.
Speaker 6 (39:59):
They made that decision in.
Speaker 7 (40:00):
The bus segregation was against the competition.
Speaker 5 (40:02):
And they ended it properently. And to begin with me.
Speaker 6 (40:08):
Nine and the beginning with me, did you know didn't know?
I wouldn't give up nine?
Speaker 7 (40:22):
That's my main Miss Alabama Born and.
Speaker 5 (40:25):
Race episode.
Speaker 6 (40:29):
Brithday you will nine pause again with me.
Speaker 5 (40:39):
Oh, I almost forgot.
Speaker 7 (40:41):
The city of Montgomery, Alabama, declared Mark second Claudette Colvin Day.
Speaker 4 (40:50):
For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
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