December 26, 2018 • 34 mins
Self-proclaimed provoker Gary John Bishop brings tough talk into the personal development safe space, and says change your narrative to improve your life.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
We love this quote. If you want to improve, be
content to be thought foolish and stupid. We are obsessed
by how others Thanka was. You're gonna have to get
comfortable with being judged, are being foolish. It's not easy
to live a great life. It's not easy to strike one,
you know, but it's worth it. Welcome to you Turns,
(00:33):
the podcast where we navigate change positively. At least that's
what we're aiming to do. I am Lisas and I'm
Jill Herzig, and today we're focusing kind of inward on
self talk. It's a catchy phrase. I hear it all
the time. It basically means that voice inside your head
that never ever seems to shut up. Lisa, what is
(00:54):
your sound like? She's a sweetheart? Yeah, mine, so loving
and encouraging, and she's like a little cheerleader in my head.
I'll just bet you just sounded like her. She's a
little bit. I mean, I personally am terrified to be
alone with that voice in my head. Sometimes some days
she's just so nasty. So I think we need to
(01:16):
do an exorcism of those those little nasty creatures in
our head and to help us with that we have
got today Gary John Bishop, who is the author of Okay,
I'm gonna just say it for any of you who
have small children in the car, cover their ears, because
the title of Gary's book is un fuck yourself. When
(01:41):
you promote it, do you just say on f yourself?
How do it depends? A lot of the podcast will
just say it. But you know, if if someone television,
a radial or something, they will usually say, unbleep yourself,
on f yourself or something. All right, So to be polite,
on f yourself, get out of your head and into
your life. Um, Gary, thank you so much for being here. Awesome,
(02:01):
thanks for having me. It's great to be with you. Exciting. Yeah,
and you can you can say yourself Yeah, sure we
can expression it is it is. We're freeing ourselves from
the taboo of language. Um. Speaking of freeing ourselves, we
were just talking about those little nasty voices and you
(02:22):
talk a lot about self talk. How how are we
going to get over that negative self talk? My belief
is that lies are very much about trying to overcome it.
But you never you'll never disappear. It's always there. So
I tend you to look at it. These days is
just like a background noise. It's just always there. But
(02:43):
I love the big chunk of my life defined by it,
like I would take actions given by it. How would?
So now it's it's more like we cohabit this body.
But but I've given up the idea of trying till
you know, get read. You know, it's I love by
the idea. You know, whatever you resist per sess. So
if you resist yourself to, if you try and make
(03:04):
it go away, you're you're feeding the beast. So we
have different self talk voices, but it's is it pretty
common what Lisa and I experience where that self talk
is negative and critical and harsh. Oh, absolutely, Like it
gets down in the dirt and you know, like your idea,
you're stupid? What were you thinking? You know? Um, do
(03:26):
you answer it like say stupid? I actually, I see,
I don't even I just laugh at it. Now I'm
more like what you know? I mean, my one of
the most foundational aspects of my self talk is, um,
I'm not smart enough. Now, yourself talk, if you take
that statement alone, it's like a tree as branches. So
(03:48):
it's now if you if you start with a notion,
that language and emotions are and like a salsa with
each other. Okay, so they're like dancing with each other.
And so if if you're if you're emotionally you feel
as if you're a little surpressed, you'll notice you're in
a dialogue with yourself at a monologue, you're in one.
(04:08):
Anytime you're in a negative state, it's about you. So
you'll notice it's always about you when you're in a
negative state, you know, it's never it's always about you,
how you're doing, how you're gonna do, how you did,
it's all that. Um, it's and it's really about what's
going on around you. And so unless it's what's going
on around you and how it impacts you, but you're
(04:29):
never like authentically engaged with what's going on around you,
not in the way like a kid's a little one,
like they're authentically engaged with us aroundings. So it's isolating,
absolutely absolutely. And here's the other thing that was a
revelation for me when I first kind of stumbled across
as I guess I'm I'm now at a point in
my life where I'm really clear that I am not
(04:52):
what goes on in my head. Because if I was
I would have it say something a bit nicer than
what it says. You know, if it was up to me,
i'd have it say you're some you have the wings
of an eagle. You can do anything you want. It
doesn't say that, you know. I mean, when I'm writing,
it's saying that's stupid. What are you thinking? You know,
go do something else? That says A waste your time,
(05:12):
You're out your depth. You know, it's a um. Yeah,
your voice is pretty bitchy too. Absolutely, your voice can
come hang out exactly, absolutely, But they love each other.
But I've I've really found that I can the more
I just take it along for the ride. I just
bring it with me. So that's why the subtitle of
the book is get out of your head and then
(05:33):
your life. Your life doesn't change by trying to change
the noise in your head. Your life changes in the
paradigm of action. You have to get into acting in
life and when you authentically engage with that action. So
that is, if you go for a walk, you go
for a swim, you go talk to your friends, and
you authentically engage with that that as you're there from
(05:54):
what's there, the voice in your head will change. So
your your take on soft talk is very different from
an affirmation, right, right, explain that different, and an affirmation
is designed they overcome the self talk, which you know,
I've tried them tell The results were very spotty for me,
(06:18):
um because I felt as if they were it was
they were kind of like what I would call an
order to So it was like, I'll say this an
order to get ready to self talk, which was feeding
the beast because you'd have to check in and see
if it was there or not, and there it is. Right.
So my approach in the book is something called an assertion.
(06:40):
An assertion is when you recognize that that's what's there
and you take a stand for something else. You say, okay,
I get that, and that's the noise and it as
where it is. Okay, now I'm going to take a
stand for something. And then I gave you these little
assertions in the boat. You could linguistically you take a
stand for something else and it allows you to get
she's just a window, a little moment to see an alternative.
(07:04):
You're interrupting the pattern of the name, absolutely absolutely, but
not fighting it not resists that. It just branching off,
taking a different direction. Something about that inner voice is
a reflection of what's going on in our subconscious correct. Um.
So ignoring it altogether probably, as you said, you can't
whatever you resist get stronger. But if if our subconscious
(07:26):
controls most of our behavior, and this nagging voice is
part of our subconscious, how do we align what we
want consciously with that subconscious nagging. That's an awesome question.
I'll give it the briefest answer I can. I like
to say self awareness is the never ending discovery of
how checked that you are. Um. You know. I love
(07:49):
that way. That's how I relate to myself, like I
catch myself like following a pathway of thought and emotion
and um. And so the more that I can highlight
some of those subconscious triggers, UM, then I can start
start doing in the in the colde light of day,
(08:10):
not in the heat of the battle, but the colde
light of day. I can say to myself, Okay, how
does that align with my life or what I'm up
to is a human being? And what matters to me
as a human being? Or even does that align with
who I would say I am as a human being? Right? So,
so I have an automatic trigger for UM, you're not
(08:30):
listening to me. Okay, So that's like a source of
a string of upset that's run through my life, going
all the way back to me. And I was a kid,
and I'll just apply that to whoever's talk. And I
don't care if you are listening to me. I'm not.
I'm listening for what are you really not? Right? Um? Now,
there was a big junk in my life where I
had no knowledge of that, of being run by that.
(08:52):
That was like to me, that was just people are annoying,
they don't listen to what you say. Until I realized that,
hold hold on a minute, this can't be all people.
And then I noticed that it followed me around like, oh,
it's always me that gets that upset. Um. And then
I would ask myself as I started to discover it,
(09:13):
I saw that it just wasn't aligned with who I
am as a human being or who I would say
I am as a human being. Just wasn't didn't line up.
So then you know, to this day, I still catch
myself with that trigger. And then I'm getting much better now,
um at recognizing it and not acting upon it. But
(09:34):
let's say subconscious trigger on mine, it's right right there,
ready to go, you know. But the more I can
own it and get responsible for it, the mortal tnatives,
I have them, more options, I have them where I
have something called authentic choice. When we come back, we're
gonna take that authentic choice that's in our head and
see how we bring it into our actions. M we
(10:04):
were just talking about getting our heads in the right
space and dealing with our subconscious and conquering that evil
inner voice. Now I want to talk a little bit
about how we take those shifts we have made in
our heads and apply them to our actions. How do
we overcome the inertia to act and and and actually
live what we the way we want. There's one of
(10:29):
the things that I realized when I was writing my
book and I was saying some research, I kept asking myself,
what if So you know, there was a lot of
there was a lot of books written about change your mindset,
change your thoughts, and how to get positive, like all
of those things, and I kept coming back to but
(10:49):
what if I can't do that? But what if I'm
in one of those days in the thoughts are there
and I don't feel like they want it, And it's
been this way for three weeks, now, what how does
I can't And then you'll notice, like when for somebody
who's ever had as an experience, and you guys might
have had that fleetingly or you might have had that
over a long period of time. But when you're in
(11:10):
that trying to work on yourself, when you're in that,
it's not a good idea, right and it really is not.
It's like it's it really is like attacking them attacking
the mosquito bite with a comb, you know, like it's
just not it's just gonna get worse. It's like kicking
yourself when you're down. It really is, you know. And
and then and then you can people can get like
(11:31):
depressed about being depressed, you know. It's like as you
go further in the hole, you know. And then I
started to say, well, what could I give someone that
would empower them and give them away out? Like how
do I get out of it? And that's when I
started to really um couch people and teach people that
(11:52):
whole idea of what does it look like to impact
your life? What does it actually take to impact the
quality of your life? And where is that happening? Now?
I feel as if more and more and more and more,
we feel as if we change your lives by changing
how we feel. Right, Like, if I change how I
feel about this thing, then I'll deal with So if
(12:14):
I'm not confident, let me go work on my confidence
and then I'll do it. Now, there's a lot of
confidence books out there, there's a lot of confidence seminars.
Or if I'm a procrastinator, or if I feel as
if I'm a procrastinator, I'll work on my procrastination and
then I'll get all this done. And what I've come
to realize is that mostly what we're waiting on is
(12:37):
a feeling. So we're waiting on the feeling to change
before I do. But you'll notice your life actually only
changes when you do. So you'll only get better, healthier, happier, richer,
whatever your thing might be more experienced in the doing.
(13:02):
And if you actually practiced, and and I really mean it,
like a practice taking the action, when you at least
feel like taking the action, you realize you can actually
develop a muscle for like I talked about earlier, cohabiting
with that thing, like I can be a fact of
it's something that I'm really committed to. When I don't
(13:22):
even feel like doing it. Yeah, I mean one of
the things you brought up in your book is fear
of judgment. You know, we don't feel like doing it
because we're petrified of what other people will say when
we do. So how do you deal with that? I mean,
we live in an incredibly judging world right now. I
think you've got to realize that I'm your judgmentle So
(13:43):
you've got to stop yourself if your other's judgment, because
you are your judge, and you know even say you
know those are judgements that judge. That's a little bit
small comfort for me though, because if I'm thinking myself,
that's self talk, that that that nasty judge persona inside
that's inside everyone, and that I don't know, that's too
(14:05):
self indulgent. It's not not it's not aimed at you though.
It's aimed at like what it is to be a
human being, right, I mean the point of being the
point at a very fundamental level for us just to
find our group, to belong, to be part of some community.
So it's all like who's in, who's out? You know,
that's the game, you know, as you walk down the street,
who's in, who's out? You know, should you be in. No,
(14:27):
you're not going to be, and why you look kind
of dangerous, so let's keep you back there. You don't
look like my type, you know, And how many things
have you mat people in your life you didn't think
were your type and then you're like, oh my gosh,
that person is awesome, you know, um, one many of
those especially, that's the judgment thing. Embrace it is a
human thing. You know. I don't put any and I've
(14:49):
had that whole experience in my life of like, I
don't want it talk. I mean, you know, if you're
internal dialogue is I'm not smart enough and someone actually
stand up and talk to two thousand people, you know,
you can imagine that. No, he's going on in your head, right,
I mean it's I mean not it's much anymore. But
it used to be really overwhelming at times, you know.
Um And once I realized that they're all judging me,
(15:13):
and it's okay, I'm not gonna die. That I that
I made what I was up to more important than
their judgment, Like I I put it in a place
for myself, at a context for myself that it elevated
when you got up in front of a big craft
people to speak. Was there anything that you told yourself?
(15:33):
Was it just like I said, I would do this,
and I'm going to do it. My feet are walking
towards that part of it, that was part of it.
Here's what you'll notice though, this was really interesting for
me the time. I guess you know, I've done a
lot of work on myself. I'm not particularly interesting, but
but I'm a human being amazingly interesting. Anyway, people listening
(15:58):
a clear I'm not wetting a kill right, would have
told you everybody out there, we would have told you
when where right? But but I think you know, in
any situation you're afraid of or you're intimidated by your
fearful of in any way, you'll notice as a kind
(16:18):
of default relationship you have to everything you're about to
go into, and it's default, and it's it's the same
one for you all the time. So there's some like
kind of relationship you have with yourself and it's there
all right. So whatever your fundamental relationship is with yourself,
it's now rising, right. And then also what's it plays
some fundamental relationship you have two people. So so here's
(16:42):
what you want to start with that you're walking in
there like a fortune teller. You're already predicting how this
is gonna go, and you have no idea how this
is going to go. So does that default world you're
already creating in your head, And if you're preparing to
go speak, you're actually preparing what you're gonna say to
(17:04):
deal with this thing that you're making up your head.
So that's one of the reasons why a lot of
people really struggle at public speaking, because they have already
made their mind up what's out there, and they're going
to talk to that, and what they don't talk to
is who is actually out there. So you know, once
I kind of broke through some of those barriers and
(17:25):
got interested and who's out there and how can I
make a difference with them? One of the things that
really diminished almost immediately was that it's about me. See,
it's not about me, it's about them, and how can
I be of use to them? That completely shifted my perspective.
Can you bring that approach to everything you do? Because
(17:48):
I understand how you can say that when you're on
a stage talking to two thousand people who are there
because they want some wisdom for you. But we have
fear of judgment in every every aspect of our lives.
So in order to make change, we have to have
repeated behaviors that make us uncomfortable, and we have to
(18:08):
get to a place where we're comfortable being uncomfortable. Do
you do that with everyone? You make every interaction more
about when you can give them than than how you
feel in the moment. So yeah, I really believe that
the more you connect with people and more you connect
with your surroundings, the last it will be about you
and the better you'll be. I can totally hear that.
I mean, it's interesting you talk about UM. A lot
(18:30):
of your clients being on wellness journeys trying to sort
of transform themselves physically. That was an example that you
brought up a lot in the book UM, and that
can feel like it's all about me. It's it's me,
It's this condition I've gotten myself in and how am
I going to climb out of it? How do you
connect with others and project out word on that? If
you want to move forward on something that you know,
(18:52):
the body imprisons you. Kind of, Yeah, I think what
you got it? There was often I find when people
come to me and they're struggling with some body image,
you're or health as year that they feel as if
it's related to the way in which they eat. The
first thing I want to discover is the authentically want
(19:12):
to deal with or is that just that reaction? Is
something like if you said it's something if there was
no social stuff about this, there was no stuff about
how you look or you know, whether you're appropriate, or
there was nothing like that, would you deal with you
know what? What if the answer is no, Yeah, I'm
comfortable with this. I just I just wish I didn't
(19:34):
feel so lousy all the time and I didn't feel
so judged. Yeah, I think I think they all love
flapping it with people, right like as human beings. I
noticed we we kind of get off on the explanation
right Often. I find when somebody comes to me with
uns you it's actually something else because actually something else
going on. But what's coming out of their mouth is
(19:55):
how they've explained it to themselves. And they've explained it
to themselves obviously started to degree that they fundamentally believe it,
like this is the truth, this is how it is.
And you can usually tell that's the case when they
start fighting for it, so they'll actually argue for their
own measery. Give us an example, And in my experience
(20:19):
of people when I'm coaching them, if you give them
an out, they'll take it. So if you say the
word almost, they'll think you're talking about everybody else. But
if you say absolutely, now they've got a problem. You've
just boxed them in and in that moment they'll fight
for their own measery. So an example would be one
I put up a while like I says, I asked
(20:42):
the question forgive and not forget. It's called resentment. Now
people freaked out when I put that up, And what
people were freaking out was about was the right to
resent m That meant a lot to them, right, So
this is like no, And then people really feel like, well,
if I don't resent them, it will let them off
(21:03):
the hook. And my answer that as maybe, but it
will definitely get you off the hook. Now, when you
go down that pathway be someone, you will find people
fight for their miserable past. People fight for the incidents
in the life that they wish we're different. People fight
(21:25):
for what was done to them. They will fight for
the right to continue living the life with that as
a determining factor of how this is going to turn out,
and you and at some point, you know, I will
say to the client. So now you're certainly company terms
with it. You're perpetuating this like this could be different,
(21:47):
but you're determined that it isn't. That's very challenging for
somebody to hear to think, you know, Schnike's has happened
like twenty years ago or thirty years ago, and I'm
still living with this is some kind of template for
why should live. And it can be really really confronting,
but but I really see that as being a big
(22:08):
part of what I do. Like, I want to bring
people to the point where you get you have a say,
and that's it doesn't have to be this. Why we're
talking about judgment and resentment. When we come back, we're
gonna talk about how we can change our own narrative.
(22:33):
We were talking about language and improving our lives and
getting over judgment. I want to continue along those lines.
You um, you say that we have the life we're
willing to put up with you. We're just talking about
how some people fight for their resentment, fight for their
attachment to their bad past. They value that more than
the future life they can have. Can you explain what
(22:54):
you mean by we have the life we're willing to
put up with it. But as human beings, we have
this tremendous capacity for overcoming. So whatever has happened in
your life, you've developed a capacity for getting on with it. Right.
The problem is, over time you've made it okay. So
(23:17):
you'll make the life you've got okay, including how you've
turned out. You'll make that okay. So people say, oh, yeah,
I've got an anger problem instead of made that okay. Um,
or I don't get along with my dad. I've made
that okay. And that's the trudging along, right. But what
we don't realize is whatever you're overcoming, you're taking it
(23:40):
with you. So you're not your greatest, most freest, most
self expressive self. You're a version of you now the
once upon a time you're free as a bird. But
over the years, and especially in our twenties and thirties,
and certainly in your forties, you know, we are we
feel good that we've overcome those things, and we don't
(24:03):
really quite notice the ever increasing burden of it. You
don't notice the weight of what we're dealing and then
and then you talk about flipping that concept of you know,
the life you're willing to put up with using that term,
I'm willing to sort of change your direction and break
(24:23):
that box, right, And I guess I'm a little bit
of an old school existentialist, right, so, you know, an
existentialism one of the founding principles is responsibility. The responsibility
the way we use it in our everyday line. We
just get something that we blame, you know, like it's
your fault, which is really not the whole picture when
(24:44):
it comes to responsibilities, actually a whole other there's a
whole other aspects to that, which includes ownership, right, and
whatever you don't own will own you. By the way,
when it comes to yourself, whatever you don't own will
own you. You'll live that life, but love the whole.
Um My, I guess my field of thought is organized
(25:06):
around this specific kind of type of philosophy of ontology,
which is the study of being nest like it's the
observation of being ness but not being like you have
an aura or something like. You are a very sad
group of ways of being. So for the most part,
(25:27):
you might be um and dependent, or you might be
for the most part, what I would call kind. Right now,
if you're somebody who which I suspect you are the
problem with being kind though, as you often have the
experience of being taken advantage of right, so you're kind
with people, and you'll notice it's a repeating feature in
(25:49):
your life, like being kind, like want these people I
was j actually you know, I'm like awesome with these
people on in their jerky But you'll kind somebody under
the ground, right you're just like kind of chills, very
strong too. Yeah, it's not a weakness. And I can
also be one tough, I sir, All people at what
(26:13):
have a level are very tough. We're all great at
dealing with life and what it throws at us. But
when you um, when so, willingness is a way of being.
It's a way to be in life. What is a
way of being? A said? Emotional states of physical states
includes thoughts in your way of being in life or
your ways of being in life. You you have total
(26:34):
saying that, you have absolutely total saying it. We don't
live like we do, but we have total saying it.
So for me, willingness was a way for me to
start a look at life. From a slightly different perspective
than the one that I had been looking at life,
which was one where I was looking at things and saying,
can I do it? I can't do it too much,
or it's not a good time. And I would ask
(26:56):
myself a question, and the question I would ask myself
as Okay, that's all of that, and I am I willing?
And I noticed that it that it needed an answer.
You can't ask yourself I am I willing and it
just sits there. It needs an answer, and the answer
would be yes or no, I am willing, or I'm
not willing. But suddenly I realized, like I could be
(27:17):
if I wanted tell It's like dominoes. You gotta just
deal with what's in front of your face. What comes
after that will be in front of your face when
it's there, because that can overwhelm you if you're thinking
down the road, like to write this book or talk
to two thousand people right just right, I mean the
first thing you got in front of us. I mean
I was in San Francisco speaking event a weekend with
eight thousand people there, and I you know, the first
(27:39):
thing I had to get over it was welcome. Yeah,
just get it out there ome um so so. But
when you look at life from the from the perspective
a willingness to do or not. Though it suddenly puts
your hands on the steering wheel, it's not about the thing.
It's more about am I going to take it on
(28:00):
or not? They get on And willingness is like another
and it kind of contracts and expands as a way
of being. It's like it's there, it's not there, but
all you need this a little just a little smudging
you get you in there. And once you're in the
way we are as human beings, we get captivated with
the thing. When we explore it, we develop it. So
I'm certainly my approaches. I'm interested in people going beyond
(28:26):
what they think they can do, and the domain of
I'm more interested in what people think they can't do.
Speaking of can't you also as a tool besides saying
I'm willing just to get out of them, you also
use I'm not willing as a really powerful so. But
you can also here in the language of that, there's
a flip to it. So willingness is like this open
(28:47):
state where you get yourself, you expose yourself to something,
right you're like, oh, I'm willing. Unwillingness is kind of
more resolute, it's more like determined a right. So unwillingness
is you can applied to almost anything of life, like
I'm unwilling to live what I live any longer. That is,
I'm not willing to tolerate what I'm doing there. I'm
(29:07):
unwilling to have the body I have. I'm unwilling to
have the financial state that I'm in. You might have
to say that to yourself three forty seven times a day.
But if every time you say it you take a
different action than you would have done, you are now
changing your life. You are changing where this is going.
And in my view, that's what it takes to change
(29:27):
your life. It's often not one thing. Often it's a
multitude of hundreds of little things that you're now doing
today that you weren't doing a year ago or two
years ago, that are taking your life in a whole
other kind of diaction. You have more tools. I love
your book of the book on f yourself. Um, you know,
I thought we were gonna be so swearing, you know,
(29:48):
like or something. Get out of your head and into
your life. You have a lot of really great. Little Well,
first of all, you have a ton of Stoic wisdom.
You quote depicted Epictetus. I've been mispronounced that for years,
and Seneca and Marcus Reelius Ummbardi and the Great Story
(30:14):
of football. But you have all this wonderful, these gems
of of inspiration to people get unstuck. Um, what kind
of role has philosophy and particularly the Stoics played. You're
the shaping of this massive, massive so um. I challenged
myself to get better for others. So I started to
(30:36):
read philosophy, and I actually go on some twenty century
like existentialists like Heidigerama, hospital Um Salt. But then you know,
for me, the Stoics are like the first existentialists. You know.
So um, But my my problem with philosophy was it
(30:58):
seems to be in a constant argument to see who's right,
and I'll just keep looking for well, what's useful? You
know that? So everything I read and everything I do,
You know, if you're a philosophy major, you'll run rings
around me. It's not my my thing. And I love philosophy,
and but I really feel as if everything you need
(31:21):
to live an awesome life in terms of wisdom already exists.
You don't need any new insights. If you actually took
one thing you already know. You already know that, and
you said, but now I'm going to live by it,
you would change your whole life. There's something I noticed,
particularly in the last chapter of your book, and it
was it was how piste off you sound. Yeah, you
(31:44):
sounded like you in your coaching and in your book
use anger to get unstuck. Is that? Do we all
need someone in our life just gets pissed with us?
I think depends on the person. I think it depends
where you've got yourself too. You know, some people need
(32:05):
a cuddle. Everybody need a cuddle. I'm not your guy,
that's not actually a very huggy person. I'm hugged my wife,
my children all time. But I I tend to look
at myself more like, um, I'll fight for your life
(32:25):
more than you will, and so I'm well only possession
myself there to get you out of the mud. Um.
When I first started doing this work, I didn't want
to hurt anybody's feelings. But then you named your book right,
because because I realized that I would have to put
myself somewhere I had to go beyond my own concerns,
my concerners, I'm going to hurt you, so I can't
(32:46):
say it. And it was a horrible experience of trying
to make a difference with somebody with that in the
back of my mind. And it was such a risk
for me. And he was a number of years ago,
but it was such a risk for me to put
myself way out there and say that thing that I
knew it was gonna hurt your feelings. And I remember
at a time like I was shaking. You know. It
was horrible because it was so like the antithesis of
(33:09):
who I would say I am. But I realized that
I had to take a stand for something that was
greater than my concerns. And in that moment, when I'm
coaching people, I'm talking to people your concerns are greater
than mine. You know, I'm here too to to be
of service or whatever as you're dealing with. And sometimes
(33:34):
that's just standing there, both feet planted in the ground
and saying looking that person dead in the eye and say,
you know, you're wrecking your own life and you need
to wake up. And that person might have been beaten
by their dad for fifteen years, and I got to
say to them, so what, and they're like, what do
you mean? So what? And then I have to after
(33:55):
after after work with that person to have them confront
what it would look like for them. They finally release
themselves from explaining the lives in terms of that. It's
it's not it's still not easy, but I'm willing action now,
cuddle later. Oh that's how you get them unstuck. I
(34:17):
want to thank you so much for helping us get unstuck. Yes,
thank you. Gary. You can follow Gary and get more
of what he calls his urban philosophy at Gary john
Bishop dot com and follow us at You Turns podcast.
Give us your questions, comments, thoughts, share your stories of
(34:38):
transformation and shift
We love this quote. If you want to improve, be
content to be thought foolish and stupid. We are obsessed
by how others Thanka was. You're gonna have to get
comfortable with being judged, are being foolish. It's not easy
to live a great life. It's not easy to strike one,
you know, but it's worth it. Welcome to you Turns,
(00:33):
the podcast where we navigate change positively. At least that's
what we're aiming to do. I am Lisas and I'm
Jill Herzig, and today we're focusing kind of inward on
self talk. It's a catchy phrase. I hear it all
the time. It basically means that voice inside your head
that never ever seems to shut up. Lisa, what is
(00:54):
your sound like? She's a sweetheart? Yeah, mine, so loving
and encouraging, and she's like a little cheerleader in my head.
I'll just bet you just sounded like her. She's a
little bit. I mean, I personally am terrified to be
alone with that voice in my head. Sometimes some days
she's just so nasty. So I think we need to
(01:16):
do an exorcism of those those little nasty creatures in
our head and to help us with that we have
got today Gary John Bishop, who is the author of Okay,
I'm gonna just say it for any of you who
have small children in the car, cover their ears, because
the title of Gary's book is un fuck yourself. When
(01:41):
you promote it, do you just say on f yourself?
How do it depends? A lot of the podcast will
just say it. But you know, if if someone television,
a radial or something, they will usually say, unbleep yourself,
on f yourself or something. All right, So to be polite,
on f yourself, get out of your head and into
your life. Um, Gary, thank you so much for being here. Awesome,
(02:01):
thanks for having me. It's great to be with you. Exciting. Yeah,
and you can you can say yourself Yeah, sure we
can expression it is it is. We're freeing ourselves from
the taboo of language. Um. Speaking of freeing ourselves, we
were just talking about those little nasty voices and you
(02:22):
talk a lot about self talk. How how are we
going to get over that negative self talk? My belief
is that lies are very much about trying to overcome it.
But you never you'll never disappear. It's always there. So
I tend you to look at it. These days is
just like a background noise. It's just always there. But
(02:43):
I love the big chunk of my life defined by it,
like I would take actions given by it. How would?
So now it's it's more like we cohabit this body.
But but I've given up the idea of trying till
you know, get read. You know, it's I love by
the idea. You know, whatever you resist per sess. So
if you resist yourself to, if you try and make
(03:04):
it go away, you're you're feeding the beast. So we
have different self talk voices, but it's is it pretty
common what Lisa and I experience where that self talk
is negative and critical and harsh. Oh, absolutely, Like it
gets down in the dirt and you know, like your idea,
you're stupid? What were you thinking? You know? Um, do
(03:26):
you answer it like say stupid? I actually, I see,
I don't even I just laugh at it. Now I'm
more like what you know? I mean, my one of
the most foundational aspects of my self talk is, um,
I'm not smart enough. Now, yourself talk, if you take
that statement alone, it's like a tree as branches. So
(03:48):
it's now if you if you start with a notion,
that language and emotions are and like a salsa with
each other. Okay, so they're like dancing with each other.
And so if if you're if you're emotionally you feel
as if you're a little surpressed, you'll notice you're in
a dialogue with yourself at a monologue, you're in one.
(04:08):
Anytime you're in a negative state, it's about you. So
you'll notice it's always about you when you're in a
negative state, you know, it's never it's always about you,
how you're doing, how you're gonna do, how you did,
it's all that. Um, it's and it's really about what's
going on around you. And so unless it's what's going
on around you and how it impacts you, but you're
(04:29):
never like authentically engaged with what's going on around you,
not in the way like a kid's a little one,
like they're authentically engaged with us aroundings. So it's isolating,
absolutely absolutely. And here's the other thing that was a
revelation for me when I first kind of stumbled across
as I guess I'm I'm now at a point in
my life where I'm really clear that I am not
(04:52):
what goes on in my head. Because if I was
I would have it say something a bit nicer than
what it says. You know, if it was up to me,
i'd have it say you're some you have the wings
of an eagle. You can do anything you want. It
doesn't say that, you know. I mean, when I'm writing,
it's saying that's stupid. What are you thinking? You know,
go do something else? That says A waste your time,
(05:12):
You're out your depth. You know, it's a um. Yeah,
your voice is pretty bitchy too. Absolutely, your voice can
come hang out exactly, absolutely, But they love each other.
But I've I've really found that I can the more
I just take it along for the ride. I just
bring it with me. So that's why the subtitle of
the book is get out of your head and then
(05:33):
your life. Your life doesn't change by trying to change
the noise in your head. Your life changes in the
paradigm of action. You have to get into acting in
life and when you authentically engage with that action. So
that is, if you go for a walk, you go
for a swim, you go talk to your friends, and
you authentically engage with that that as you're there from
(05:54):
what's there, the voice in your head will change. So
your your take on soft talk is very different from
an affirmation, right, right, explain that different, and an affirmation
is designed they overcome the self talk, which you know,
I've tried them tell The results were very spotty for me,
(06:18):
um because I felt as if they were it was
they were kind of like what I would call an
order to So it was like, I'll say this an
order to get ready to self talk, which was feeding
the beast because you'd have to check in and see
if it was there or not, and there it is. Right.
So my approach in the book is something called an assertion.
(06:40):
An assertion is when you recognize that that's what's there
and you take a stand for something else. You say, okay,
I get that, and that's the noise and it as
where it is. Okay, now I'm going to take a
stand for something. And then I gave you these little
assertions in the boat. You could linguistically you take a
stand for something else and it allows you to get
she's just a window, a little moment to see an alternative.
(07:04):
You're interrupting the pattern of the name, absolutely absolutely, but
not fighting it not resists that. It just branching off,
taking a different direction. Something about that inner voice is
a reflection of what's going on in our subconscious correct. Um.
So ignoring it altogether probably, as you said, you can't
whatever you resist get stronger. But if if our subconscious
(07:26):
controls most of our behavior, and this nagging voice is
part of our subconscious, how do we align what we
want consciously with that subconscious nagging. That's an awesome question.
I'll give it the briefest answer I can. I like
to say self awareness is the never ending discovery of
how checked that you are. Um. You know. I love
(07:49):
that way. That's how I relate to myself, like I
catch myself like following a pathway of thought and emotion
and um. And so the more that I can highlight
some of those subconscious triggers, UM, then I can start
start doing in the in the colde light of day,
(08:10):
not in the heat of the battle, but the colde
light of day. I can say to myself, Okay, how
does that align with my life or what I'm up
to is a human being? And what matters to me
as a human being? Or even does that align with
who I would say I am as a human being? Right? So,
so I have an automatic trigger for UM, you're not
(08:30):
listening to me. Okay, So that's like a source of
a string of upset that's run through my life, going
all the way back to me. And I was a kid,
and I'll just apply that to whoever's talk. And I
don't care if you are listening to me. I'm not.
I'm listening for what are you really not? Right? Um? Now,
there was a big junk in my life where I
had no knowledge of that, of being run by that.
(08:52):
That was like to me, that was just people are annoying,
they don't listen to what you say. Until I realized that,
hold hold on a minute, this can't be all people.
And then I noticed that it followed me around like, oh,
it's always me that gets that upset. Um. And then
I would ask myself as I started to discover it,
(09:13):
I saw that it just wasn't aligned with who I
am as a human being or who I would say
I am as a human being. Just wasn't didn't line up.
So then you know, to this day, I still catch
myself with that trigger. And then I'm getting much better now,
um at recognizing it and not acting upon it. But
(09:34):
let's say subconscious trigger on mine, it's right right there,
ready to go, you know. But the more I can
own it and get responsible for it, the mortal tnatives,
I have them, more options, I have them where I
have something called authentic choice. When we come back, we're
gonna take that authentic choice that's in our head and
see how we bring it into our actions. M we
(10:04):
were just talking about getting our heads in the right
space and dealing with our subconscious and conquering that evil
inner voice. Now I want to talk a little bit
about how we take those shifts we have made in
our heads and apply them to our actions. How do
we overcome the inertia to act and and and actually
live what we the way we want. There's one of
(10:29):
the things that I realized when I was writing my
book and I was saying some research, I kept asking myself,
what if So you know, there was a lot of
there was a lot of books written about change your mindset,
change your thoughts, and how to get positive, like all
of those things, and I kept coming back to but
(10:49):
what if I can't do that? But what if I'm
in one of those days in the thoughts are there
and I don't feel like they want it, And it's
been this way for three weeks, now, what how does
I can't And then you'll notice, like when for somebody
who's ever had as an experience, and you guys might
have had that fleetingly or you might have had that
over a long period of time. But when you're in
(11:10):
that trying to work on yourself, when you're in that,
it's not a good idea, right and it really is not.
It's like it's it really is like attacking them attacking
the mosquito bite with a comb, you know, like it's
just not it's just gonna get worse. It's like kicking
yourself when you're down. It really is, you know. And
and then and then you can people can get like
(11:31):
depressed about being depressed, you know. It's like as you
go further in the hole, you know. And then I
started to say, well, what could I give someone that
would empower them and give them away out? Like how
do I get out of it? And that's when I
started to really um couch people and teach people that
(11:52):
whole idea of what does it look like to impact
your life? What does it actually take to impact the
quality of your life? And where is that happening? Now?
I feel as if more and more and more and more,
we feel as if we change your lives by changing
how we feel. Right, Like, if I change how I
feel about this thing, then I'll deal with So if
(12:14):
I'm not confident, let me go work on my confidence
and then I'll do it. Now, there's a lot of
confidence books out there, there's a lot of confidence seminars.
Or if I'm a procrastinator, or if I feel as
if I'm a procrastinator, I'll work on my procrastination and
then I'll get all this done. And what I've come
to realize is that mostly what we're waiting on is
(12:37):
a feeling. So we're waiting on the feeling to change
before I do. But you'll notice your life actually only
changes when you do. So you'll only get better, healthier, happier, richer,
whatever your thing might be more experienced in the doing.
(13:02):
And if you actually practiced, and and I really mean it,
like a practice taking the action, when you at least
feel like taking the action, you realize you can actually
develop a muscle for like I talked about earlier, cohabiting
with that thing, like I can be a fact of
it's something that I'm really committed to. When I don't
(13:22):
even feel like doing it. Yeah, I mean one of
the things you brought up in your book is fear
of judgment. You know, we don't feel like doing it
because we're petrified of what other people will say when
we do. So how do you deal with that? I mean,
we live in an incredibly judging world right now. I
think you've got to realize that I'm your judgmentle So
(13:43):
you've got to stop yourself if your other's judgment, because
you are your judge, and you know even say you
know those are judgements that judge. That's a little bit
small comfort for me though, because if I'm thinking myself,
that's self talk, that that that nasty judge persona inside
that's inside everyone, and that I don't know, that's too
(14:05):
self indulgent. It's not not it's not aimed at you though.
It's aimed at like what it is to be a
human being, right, I mean the point of being the
point at a very fundamental level for us just to
find our group, to belong, to be part of some community.
So it's all like who's in, who's out? You know,
that's the game, you know, as you walk down the street,
who's in, who's out? You know, should you be in. No,
(14:27):
you're not going to be, and why you look kind
of dangerous, so let's keep you back there. You don't
look like my type, you know, And how many things
have you mat people in your life you didn't think
were your type and then you're like, oh my gosh,
that person is awesome, you know, um, one many of
those especially, that's the judgment thing. Embrace it is a
human thing. You know. I don't put any and I've
(14:49):
had that whole experience in my life of like, I
don't want it talk. I mean, you know, if you're
internal dialogue is I'm not smart enough and someone actually
stand up and talk to two thousand people, you know,
you can imagine that. No, he's going on in your head, right,
I mean it's I mean not it's much anymore. But
it used to be really overwhelming at times, you know.
Um And once I realized that they're all judging me,
(15:13):
and it's okay, I'm not gonna die. That I that
I made what I was up to more important than
their judgment, Like I I put it in a place
for myself, at a context for myself that it elevated
when you got up in front of a big craft
people to speak. Was there anything that you told yourself?
(15:33):
Was it just like I said, I would do this,
and I'm going to do it. My feet are walking
towards that part of it, that was part of it.
Here's what you'll notice though, this was really interesting for
me the time. I guess you know, I've done a
lot of work on myself. I'm not particularly interesting, but
but I'm a human being amazingly interesting. Anyway, people listening
(15:58):
a clear I'm not wetting a kill right, would have
told you everybody out there, we would have told you
when where right? But but I think you know, in
any situation you're afraid of or you're intimidated by your
fearful of in any way, you'll notice as a kind
(16:18):
of default relationship you have to everything you're about to
go into, and it's default, and it's it's the same
one for you all the time. So there's some like
kind of relationship you have with yourself and it's there
all right. So whatever your fundamental relationship is with yourself,
it's now rising, right. And then also what's it plays
some fundamental relationship you have two people. So so here's
(16:42):
what you want to start with that you're walking in
there like a fortune teller. You're already predicting how this
is gonna go, and you have no idea how this
is going to go. So does that default world you're
already creating in your head, And if you're preparing to
go speak, you're actually preparing what you're gonna say to
(17:04):
deal with this thing that you're making up your head.
So that's one of the reasons why a lot of
people really struggle at public speaking, because they have already
made their mind up what's out there, and they're going
to talk to that, and what they don't talk to
is who is actually out there. So you know, once
I kind of broke through some of those barriers and
(17:25):
got interested and who's out there and how can I
make a difference with them? One of the things that
really diminished almost immediately was that it's about me. See,
it's not about me, it's about them, and how can
I be of use to them? That completely shifted my perspective.
Can you bring that approach to everything you do? Because
(17:48):
I understand how you can say that when you're on
a stage talking to two thousand people who are there
because they want some wisdom for you. But we have
fear of judgment in every every aspect of our lives.
So in order to make change, we have to have
repeated behaviors that make us uncomfortable, and we have to
(18:08):
get to a place where we're comfortable being uncomfortable. Do
you do that with everyone? You make every interaction more
about when you can give them than than how you
feel in the moment. So yeah, I really believe that
the more you connect with people and more you connect
with your surroundings, the last it will be about you
and the better you'll be. I can totally hear that.
I mean, it's interesting you talk about UM. A lot
(18:30):
of your clients being on wellness journeys trying to sort
of transform themselves physically. That was an example that you
brought up a lot in the book UM, and that
can feel like it's all about me. It's it's me,
It's this condition I've gotten myself in and how am
I going to climb out of it? How do you
connect with others and project out word on that? If
you want to move forward on something that you know,
(18:52):
the body imprisons you. Kind of, Yeah, I think what
you got it? There was often I find when people
come to me and they're struggling with some body image,
you're or health as year that they feel as if
it's related to the way in which they eat. The
first thing I want to discover is the authentically want
(19:12):
to deal with or is that just that reaction? Is
something like if you said it's something if there was
no social stuff about this, there was no stuff about
how you look or you know, whether you're appropriate, or
there was nothing like that, would you deal with you
know what? What if the answer is no, Yeah, I'm
comfortable with this. I just I just wish I didn't
(19:34):
feel so lousy all the time and I didn't feel
so judged. Yeah, I think I think they all love
flapping it with people, right like as human beings. I
noticed we we kind of get off on the explanation
right Often. I find when somebody comes to me with
uns you it's actually something else because actually something else
going on. But what's coming out of their mouth is
(19:55):
how they've explained it to themselves. And they've explained it
to themselves obviously started to degree that they fundamentally believe it,
like this is the truth, this is how it is.
And you can usually tell that's the case when they
start fighting for it, so they'll actually argue for their
own measery. Give us an example, And in my experience
(20:19):
of people when I'm coaching them, if you give them
an out, they'll take it. So if you say the
word almost, they'll think you're talking about everybody else. But
if you say absolutely, now they've got a problem. You've
just boxed them in and in that moment they'll fight
for their own measery. So an example would be one
I put up a while like I says, I asked
(20:42):
the question forgive and not forget. It's called resentment. Now
people freaked out when I put that up, And what
people were freaking out was about was the right to
resent m That meant a lot to them, right, So
this is like no, And then people really feel like, well,
if I don't resent them, it will let them off
(21:03):
the hook. And my answer that as maybe, but it
will definitely get you off the hook. Now, when you
go down that pathway be someone, you will find people
fight for their miserable past. People fight for the incidents
in the life that they wish we're different. People fight
(21:25):
for what was done to them. They will fight for
the right to continue living the life with that as
a determining factor of how this is going to turn out,
and you and at some point, you know, I will
say to the client. So now you're certainly company terms
with it. You're perpetuating this like this could be different,
(21:47):
but you're determined that it isn't. That's very challenging for
somebody to hear to think, you know, Schnike's has happened
like twenty years ago or thirty years ago, and I'm
still living with this is some kind of template for
why should live. And it can be really really confronting,
but but I really see that as being a big
(22:08):
part of what I do. Like, I want to bring
people to the point where you get you have a say,
and that's it doesn't have to be this. Why we're
talking about judgment and resentment. When we come back, we're
gonna talk about how we can change our own narrative.
(22:33):
We were talking about language and improving our lives and
getting over judgment. I want to continue along those lines.
You um, you say that we have the life we're
willing to put up with you. We're just talking about
how some people fight for their resentment, fight for their
attachment to their bad past. They value that more than
the future life they can have. Can you explain what
(22:54):
you mean by we have the life we're willing to
put up with it. But as human beings, we have
this tremendous capacity for overcoming. So whatever has happened in
your life, you've developed a capacity for getting on with it. Right.
The problem is, over time you've made it okay. So
(23:17):
you'll make the life you've got okay, including how you've
turned out. You'll make that okay. So people say, oh, yeah,
I've got an anger problem instead of made that okay. Um,
or I don't get along with my dad. I've made
that okay. And that's the trudging along, right. But what
we don't realize is whatever you're overcoming, you're taking it
(23:40):
with you. So you're not your greatest, most freest, most
self expressive self. You're a version of you now the
once upon a time you're free as a bird. But
over the years, and especially in our twenties and thirties,
and certainly in your forties, you know, we are we
feel good that we've overcome those things, and we don't
(24:03):
really quite notice the ever increasing burden of it. You
don't notice the weight of what we're dealing and then
and then you talk about flipping that concept of you know,
the life you're willing to put up with using that term,
I'm willing to sort of change your direction and break
(24:23):
that box, right, And I guess I'm a little bit
of an old school existentialist, right, so, you know, an
existentialism one of the founding principles is responsibility. The responsibility
the way we use it in our everyday line. We
just get something that we blame, you know, like it's
your fault, which is really not the whole picture when
(24:44):
it comes to responsibilities, actually a whole other there's a
whole other aspects to that, which includes ownership, right, and
whatever you don't own will own you. By the way,
when it comes to yourself, whatever you don't own will
own you. You'll live that life, but love the whole.
Um My, I guess my field of thought is organized
(25:06):
around this specific kind of type of philosophy of ontology,
which is the study of being nest like it's the
observation of being ness but not being like you have
an aura or something like. You are a very sad
group of ways of being. So for the most part,
(25:27):
you might be um and dependent, or you might be
for the most part, what I would call kind. Right now,
if you're somebody who which I suspect you are the
problem with being kind though, as you often have the
experience of being taken advantage of right, so you're kind
with people, and you'll notice it's a repeating feature in
(25:49):
your life, like being kind, like want these people I
was j actually you know, I'm like awesome with these
people on in their jerky But you'll kind somebody under
the ground, right you're just like kind of chills, very
strong too. Yeah, it's not a weakness. And I can
also be one tough, I sir, All people at what
(26:13):
have a level are very tough. We're all great at
dealing with life and what it throws at us. But
when you um, when so, willingness is a way of being.
It's a way to be in life. What is a
way of being? A said? Emotional states of physical states
includes thoughts in your way of being in life or
your ways of being in life. You you have total
(26:34):
saying that, you have absolutely total saying it. We don't
live like we do, but we have total saying it.
So for me, willingness was a way for me to
start a look at life. From a slightly different perspective
than the one that I had been looking at life,
which was one where I was looking at things and saying,
can I do it? I can't do it too much,
or it's not a good time. And I would ask
(26:56):
myself a question, and the question I would ask myself
as Okay, that's all of that, and I am I willing?
And I noticed that it that it needed an answer.
You can't ask yourself I am I willing and it
just sits there. It needs an answer, and the answer
would be yes or no, I am willing, or I'm
not willing. But suddenly I realized, like I could be
(27:17):
if I wanted tell It's like dominoes. You gotta just
deal with what's in front of your face. What comes
after that will be in front of your face when
it's there, because that can overwhelm you if you're thinking
down the road, like to write this book or talk
to two thousand people right just right, I mean the
first thing you got in front of us. I mean
I was in San Francisco speaking event a weekend with
eight thousand people there, and I you know, the first
(27:39):
thing I had to get over it was welcome. Yeah,
just get it out there ome um so so. But
when you look at life from the from the perspective
a willingness to do or not. Though it suddenly puts
your hands on the steering wheel, it's not about the thing.
It's more about am I going to take it on
(28:00):
or not? They get on And willingness is like another
and it kind of contracts and expands as a way
of being. It's like it's there, it's not there, but
all you need this a little just a little smudging
you get you in there. And once you're in the
way we are as human beings, we get captivated with
the thing. When we explore it, we develop it. So
I'm certainly my approaches. I'm interested in people going beyond
(28:26):
what they think they can do, and the domain of
I'm more interested in what people think they can't do.
Speaking of can't you also as a tool besides saying
I'm willing just to get out of them, you also
use I'm not willing as a really powerful so. But
you can also here in the language of that, there's
a flip to it. So willingness is like this open
(28:47):
state where you get yourself, you expose yourself to something,
right you're like, oh, I'm willing. Unwillingness is kind of
more resolute, it's more like determined a right. So unwillingness
is you can applied to almost anything of life, like
I'm unwilling to live what I live any longer. That is,
I'm not willing to tolerate what I'm doing there. I'm
(29:07):
unwilling to have the body I have. I'm unwilling to
have the financial state that I'm in. You might have
to say that to yourself three forty seven times a day.
But if every time you say it you take a
different action than you would have done, you are now
changing your life. You are changing where this is going.
And in my view, that's what it takes to change
(29:27):
your life. It's often not one thing. Often it's a
multitude of hundreds of little things that you're now doing
today that you weren't doing a year ago or two
years ago, that are taking your life in a whole
other kind of diaction. You have more tools. I love
your book of the book on f yourself. Um, you know,
I thought we were gonna be so swearing, you know,
(29:48):
like or something. Get out of your head and into
your life. You have a lot of really great. Little Well,
first of all, you have a ton of Stoic wisdom.
You quote depicted Epictetus. I've been mispronounced that for years,
and Seneca and Marcus Reelius Ummbardi and the Great Story
(30:14):
of football. But you have all this wonderful, these gems
of of inspiration to people get unstuck. Um, what kind
of role has philosophy and particularly the Stoics played. You're
the shaping of this massive, massive so um. I challenged
myself to get better for others. So I started to
(30:36):
read philosophy, and I actually go on some twenty century
like existentialists like Heidigerama, hospital Um Salt. But then you know,
for me, the Stoics are like the first existentialists. You know.
So um, But my my problem with philosophy was it
(30:58):
seems to be in a constant argument to see who's right,
and I'll just keep looking for well, what's useful? You
know that? So everything I read and everything I do,
You know, if you're a philosophy major, you'll run rings
around me. It's not my my thing. And I love philosophy,
and but I really feel as if everything you need
(31:21):
to live an awesome life in terms of wisdom already exists.
You don't need any new insights. If you actually took
one thing you already know. You already know that, and
you said, but now I'm going to live by it,
you would change your whole life. There's something I noticed,
particularly in the last chapter of your book, and it
was it was how piste off you sound. Yeah, you
(31:44):
sounded like you in your coaching and in your book
use anger to get unstuck. Is that? Do we all
need someone in our life just gets pissed with us?
I think depends on the person. I think it depends
where you've got yourself too. You know, some people need
(32:05):
a cuddle. Everybody need a cuddle. I'm not your guy,
that's not actually a very huggy person. I'm hugged my wife,
my children all time. But I I tend to look
at myself more like, um, I'll fight for your life
(32:25):
more than you will, and so I'm well only possession
myself there to get you out of the mud. Um.
When I first started doing this work, I didn't want
to hurt anybody's feelings. But then you named your book right,
because because I realized that I would have to put
myself somewhere I had to go beyond my own concerns,
my concerners, I'm going to hurt you, so I can't
(32:46):
say it. And it was a horrible experience of trying
to make a difference with somebody with that in the
back of my mind. And it was such a risk
for me. And he was a number of years ago,
but it was such a risk for me to put
myself way out there and say that thing that I
knew it was gonna hurt your feelings. And I remember
at a time like I was shaking. You know. It
was horrible because it was so like the antithesis of
(33:09):
who I would say I am. But I realized that
I had to take a stand for something that was
greater than my concerns. And in that moment, when I'm
coaching people, I'm talking to people your concerns are greater
than mine. You know, I'm here too to to be
of service or whatever as you're dealing with. And sometimes
(33:34):
that's just standing there, both feet planted in the ground
and saying looking that person dead in the eye and say,
you know, you're wrecking your own life and you need
to wake up. And that person might have been beaten
by their dad for fifteen years, and I got to
say to them, so what, and they're like, what do
you mean? So what? And then I have to after
(33:55):
after after work with that person to have them confront
what it would look like for them. They finally release
themselves from explaining the lives in terms of that. It's
it's not it's still not easy, but I'm willing action now,
cuddle later. Oh that's how you get them unstuck. I
(34:17):
want to thank you so much for helping us get unstuck. Yes,
thank you. Gary. You can follow Gary and get more
of what he calls his urban philosophy at Gary john
Bishop dot com and follow us at You Turns podcast.
Give us your questions, comments, thoughts, share your stories of
(34:38):
transformation and shift
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