Dill Us In

This herb and its seeds bring a warm yet bracing kick to dishes (and, yes, pickles) around the world. Anney and Lauren dig into the science and history of dill.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vocal Bomb, and today
we have an episode for you about Dill. So many punds,
so many goodness? Oh yes, any reason this one was
on your mind? Uh? We hadn't done an herb and
or spice in just a second. I was thinking about

(00:32):
this earlier this summer, but then Russia invaded Ukraine and
I didn't really want to think about them for a minute,
so I've been putting it off. Ah, well, but here
we are here, we are here, we are well. I

(00:53):
will tell you my family is big into dill. Yeah us.
I think I've talked about this before. My brother loves
Dill pickles so much that he has a pickle Christmas ornament,
which apparently is a German tradition hiding the pickle. I
think when we did that episode, we talked about it.
We just throw it in and confirmed that it's a thing.

(01:16):
I don't think my mom knew that when she got
him in an ornament. I don't think it's a deep,
deep tradition, but right, yeah, it is. It was certainly
a thing. I have had a Dill pickle ornament. I'm
not sure if it's just in storage or if it broke,
but but one way or another, why not hang a
pickle ornament from your tree? Why? Why not? Why not? Um? Well,

(01:39):
we can fix this. When can we get to the
bottom of what happened to your ornament? Lauren? We'll figure
it out one way or the other. Yes, my brother's
favorite chips are dil deal chips, dill pickle chips. Um.
I just gave my mom a dill bloody mary mix
and she loved it. And I love it too. I
I love it in things like chick be salad. Um.

(02:00):
Oh yeah yeah, fresh fresh dill the like yeah yeah.
I was thinking while I was writing the outline for
this one, and I'm not sure if I've ever cooked
with dill seed before. And now I'm like, why haven't I?
That sounds delicious? Um. Usually I only break out fresh
dill when I'm making um chicken soup because to me,

(02:26):
it's like an integral part of Matz the Ball soup.
So so if that's what I'm if that's what I'm
up to, then I break out the fresh dill. But
I don't know why I don't use it all the time.
It's delightful. It is delightful, and now I want to
put it in my soup. You know I love soup,
and it is soup season now officially. Yes, Happy fall y'all,
Happy fall y'all. Uh. It is hard to break apart

(02:50):
the history of dill without talking about pickles, so definitely
see our pickle episode Yep, yep, yep, and shout out
to our coworker and friend Ramsey and his amazing homemade pickles,
which we talk about in that delicious I love them
very much. But there's fresh still in those in the
jar for sure. Um. Yeah, yeah, we are. Uh, we're unionizing, y'all.

(03:12):
The I Heart Podcast team is working on bargaining a
union contract with the company and two our first in
person bargaining meeting, Ramsey in fact brought a jar pickles,
and I bet it improved everything all the more for it,
shared him across the table. It was lovely. Oh gosh,

(03:34):
that's so jealous. They are so good, so good they
really are, they really are. I think we were eating
them with chopsticks because we just didn't have any forks.
I love that. I think that's fantastic. Anyway, yes, anyway,
all right. I guess this brings us to walk question still,

(03:59):
what is it? Well? Dill is a plant used for
both its feathery leaves as an herb and it's tiny
seeds as a spice, both of which add a little savory, lemony,
pungent kick to just all kinds of savory dishes around
the world. It's like a like a milder happy medium

(04:20):
between phennel and caraway. It's like, I'm biased because this
just happened, but it's like the first day of fall.
It's like a little crisp and bracing, but still so
bright and warming, kind of sunny. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind
of like a cool sunshine like yeah, I agree, I

(04:44):
think that again. Excellent job, Lauren. Um the dill plant
botanical name uh aneath them graviolins. I think let's go
with it. Yeah. Dill is a member of the Apiacea,
or carrot family, along with other herbs like parsley, caraway,
and fennel Um. Dill looks a lot like fennel from

(05:06):
the ground up. It grows these skinny stocks about one
to four ft tall, like a third of a meter
to a little bit over a meter, with these deep
bluish green leaves that grow in long, soft, fine needle
shapes in these big feathery clusters. Um, it'll flower with
these big firework bursts of tiny little yellow blooms, a
similar to carrot or fennel or Queen anne s lace

(05:29):
if you're familiar with that. If pollinated, dill will produce
these small, dry fruits, each of which contains a single seed.
The seeds could be used culinarily a whole or ground
to season any number of dishes, and the feathery leaves
are also used fresh or dried. However you use herbs,
fresh is generally preferred because you do lose a lot

(05:50):
of the flavor when you dry dill. So it's just
pretty m That flavor is both um herbal savory and
a little bitter or bracing, um, a little bit of
like licorice in there, um, a little bit lemony. Uh.
The seeds taste a little bit warmer. Um. The fresh
herb can have like a grassy, slightly sweet note to it.

(06:12):
Oh gosh, but I'm pretty sure the whole plant is edible,
like including the flowers. Dill plants do grow a wee
little tap root that looks it looks sort of like
a like a vampire got to an already anemic carrot.
Yeah yeah, nicula added again, damn you lar, but yeah yeah,

(06:39):
dill has just right, all kinds of savory applications. Um
in cuisines around the world. Um, you know, people put
it in meat or bean or fish dishes. UM, in
rice or potato or vegetable or salad dishes, in savory
pastries and breads, in dairy based sauces and dips. Um
it's great and pickling right. Uh, just just a sampling

(07:02):
of a few dishes that have dill as as sort
of a main flavor component. Swedish cured salmon, Greek stuffed
grape leaves and suziki sauce, some kinds of Eastern European
and or Russian borsched um, and some German style pickles. Yeah,
but right, dill pickles, whole separate, whole separate situation. Episode.

(07:24):
It's a similar situation. It's all kinds of things, to
be honest. Well, what about the nutrition. Uh, Dill seeds
and fronds are used as seasonings because they pack such
a big flavor punch, which means that like you're not
generally eating enough for them to have a very large

(07:45):
dietary impact, though, they are a great way to to
add flavor for a low caloric buck if that's something
that you're looking to do. And that being said, um
as we will get into in the history section pretty deeply.
Dill has been used medicinally to treat all kinds of
things for thousands of years, and it does indeed contain
a really good spread of vitamins and minerals and various

(08:07):
other micronutrients with antioxidant and anti microbial properties. So and
its extracts are under investigation for a number of potential
medicinal applications. But as always savor motto, you know, bodies
are complicated, more research is necessary before consuming a medicinal
amount of anything you should you should check with health

(08:32):
professional who is not us. I love this. I love
that it's become like the very tired version of the
like legal ease on any prescription commercial. You're just like,
I have to admit today, I'm a very tired version

(08:53):
of myself. So yes, you know it happens. I enjoy it.
I thought it was funny. Yeah yeah, So we have
kind of a number for you, man. This is one
of those things where I okay, so there is like
a huge global market for certainly dill seed and dill oil.

(09:18):
But it's one of the things that I couldn't access
the precise numbers to unless I paid thousands and thousands
of dollars for the market report, which I I wasn't
I honestly wasn't going to do ever. So so it's
it's grown and used fresh in a lot of places.

(09:40):
It's also processed for its seeds and its oils in
a lot of places. Furthermore, UM, I couldn't find any
deal specific festivals, but there are a bunch of dill
pickle festivals around the United States, many of which incorporate
a dill pun in their name, such as the Big Deal,

(10:02):
uh huh, and and just deal with It. And you
can look forward to many of those funds coming your way, Lauren,
I'm brainstorming for the title of this episode. I do,
in fact look forward to that deeply. That's plant to
be a very bright spark in my week. Yes, just

(10:25):
like a deal can add to all the kinds of
things people like to add it to ice cream. Um.
But yes, we've got quite a bit of history for you.
We do, and we are going to get into that
as soon as we get back from a quick break
for a word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank

(10:51):
you sponsors, Yes, thank you. So deal's history it's a
bit of a mystery, but historians generally think it originated
in the Mediterranean and or Western Asia. The first known
written mention of dill comes out of an Egyptian medical
text from three thousand BC. Dial was grown in Babylonian

(11:14):
gardens by this time as well. According to some sources
I found, the ancient Egyptians might have also used it
like to keep which is in the like way? Um,
and also say it with me how as a yep,

(11:34):
I love it, I love it. Mark off that bingo card.
But I appreciate that this one is both which repellents
and aphrodisiac. Right, it's multifunctional. You don't want which is
bothering you when you want an aphrodisiac. How Wy. Dill

(11:57):
weed might have been seen as a sign of good
luck during first century CE Rome, and the ancient Egyptians
might have considered it as a symbol of wealth. Um.
They used dil and their scented oils, and the oil
was sometimes utilized in wine making. UH and the ancient
Egyptians were not the only ones by far who used
dil medicinally, and it was often used specifically for stomach issues. Um.

(12:24):
It was used for all kinds of things which gett
into for a minute, but a lot of stomach stuff,
like as an appetite suppressant. I called I thought it
called something really funny to me, like a basically like
you use it in public so your stomach won't grow
in public. Um, so it's called like a public quieting something.
But yes, it was used for that, and also for

(12:45):
freshening breath. Um. There is mentioned of something that is
probably dill in the Bible. There's a little bit of
a argument about what exactly, because it's a translation error.
Basically are those two different translations. One is dill and
one is like something that is not deal, But most
people seem to think it was dial anyway. Deus varieties

(13:08):
wrote about the healing power of scorched dill seeds, particularly
for wounded soldiers. Our plow plenty wrote about it too,
Um that among other things that could stayeth the hiccups
which I put, I put the hiccups. I know, I
love that hycops Um. It was called something else, but

(13:29):
I put the hiccups in because no one would have known.
I didn't know what it was, but it was. It
was a different word, but it was hiccups. Um. The
Romans used dill for their soldiers, and gladiators were fed
meals covered in dill and the hopes of boosting their courage.
But yeah, it has. Dill has been used to treat

(13:50):
all kinds of ailments. Um. An ancient Egyptian medical document
recommends it as a pain killer. The ancient Green makes
me have placed dill over their eyes as a sleep aide,
which I love. Um. I mean that sounds nice. Dill
water might have been used to soothe babies with colic,

(14:11):
and it was often prescribed for women who are breastfeeding.
Some accounts suggest that Charlemagne demanded that bottles of dill
oil were available at meals to combat hiccups or stomach
issues or stomach noises, particularly because he hated those. I
guess he really detested it. Um. Later, Herbalis Nicholas Culpepper

(14:32):
described dil as a tonic for the brain. So, yeah,
a lot of things, A lot of things. And then okay,
so I always a tad hesitant to include miss and
folklore from places and time periods that I don't really
have a lot of experience with um, just because a
lot of times I think it can I can only
find it in like one or two places. The details

(14:54):
are vague, UM, and I think there can sort of
be this vibe of like, look at this silly people
in there but leaves. Oh yes, those other people and
their ridiculous ideas. Let's buy in n f t um. Yeah, yeah,
exactly exactly. It's a little hard to explain, but UM,
I have to include a few of them around dill
that I found because they are quite fun and listeners.

(15:16):
If you have any more info, please let us know.
As always, and we do genuinely. We we love this stuff.
We genuinely love this stuff. UM. So we are not
making fun so much is sharing something grain of salts?
Also it's delightful. Yeah exactly exactly so, which is all right.
As mentioned, dill was often used to fend off witchcraft.

(15:41):
Historians think this might be because of the strong smell.
Perhaps um people might have hung it up around their
houses a wart and a charm, and they might have
thought that if you know they've been cursed, let's drink
this dill water and that would read you of the curse. However,
it was awesome belief that which is used dill in

(16:02):
their spills, So multifaceted again. Um aphrodisiacs also has mentioned earlier.
Some cultures thought that dil was an aphrodisiac, and as
an extension of that, they might have used it in
love potions. On top of that, yes, disbelieved connection to

(16:22):
love may have translated to some wedding ceremonies. So based
on this, I found this in two places. Um, some
European brides might have worn a sprig of dill and
or included them in their bouquets on their wedding day
to bless their marriage with happiness. But but on the
other hand, for a woman who wanted to be in

(16:44):
charge of the household, she might have secretly carried seeds
of mustard and dil to the wedding and say I
have you mustard and dill husband. When I speak you
stay still? Oh okay again, listeners if you know more
off this, Because I read that and I was like,
I don't know, it's interesting, I like it, but I

(17:06):
don't know. I think we have talked about that before
I can't it was another herb, So I guess that's
sort of a maybe it's a popular legend or maybe practice,
but of putting the thing in for the woman to
be the in charge of the household. Um. European monks
might have thought that dill would keep away the incubus

(17:28):
or male demons looking to pray on sleeping women as well.
So there's quite a few legends stories around ill which
I enjoy. Um. And Yeah, because dill was prized in Europe,
as we move out of our kind of miss not
not just for which is and incuby, etcetera, exactly, I

(17:53):
love that which is incuby, etcetera. Uh No, it was
quite prized um and in Europe. Because of that, it
was often the subject of taxation and or tithing, although
I believe that mentioned in the Bible was about tithing
using deals um and tithing but um. Edward the First
of England, for instance, he needed money to repair the
London Bridge during the late twelve hundred's and early undreds.

(18:16):
Somewhere in there, um he implemented a few initiatives to
fund these repairs, including a tax on dill and other
spices and herbs, which One of the fun things about
this show is I feel like I know a lot
more about like old timey taxes now, but I feel
like we've talked about this before. I think we have.
Dil was a popular urban England in the seventeenth century,

(18:39):
and it was a staple of many kitchen gardens. When
Eastern Europeans arrived to America in the sixteen and seventeen hundreds,
they brought their recipes with them. Many of these recipes
incorporated dil and yes um. As I said, for a
lot of our history, it's almost impossible to separate dill
from pickles, especially when you're a food podcaster googling it.

(19:03):
But you can see your pickle episode for a lot
more information. But very very briefly, um pickles, at their
simplest are brind fruits and vegetables. They've been around since
ancient times. Um. They start popping up in the written
record around when Bill does UM, and Bill probably showed

(19:24):
up in the mix four pickles pretty early on. Pickles
often made with bill or a staple for Jewish people
in Eastern Europe, and when many of them immigrated to
the US in the eighteen and nineteen hundreds, they introduced
these pickles to the country are localized areas in the
country at least um on a larger scale, and to
this day, Dale pickles is what comes to mind for

(19:44):
a lot of Americans when they think about pickles. Um.
So yes, a big deal indeed. Um. And I will say, like,
this was one there wasn't that much on it, And
I couldn't tell this because it's one of those things
that people just were it is around and they didn't
write about it that much. Um. But I do know

(20:05):
for a fact like this was a very kind of
Western European look at dill. And so there's a lot missing.
So again, listeners, if you have any information resources, stories,
please let us know. Yeah. I think that with a
lot of these herbs, part of the reason that it's
hard to dig up historical information about them is that

(20:25):
they were so common and so so easily moved around.
You know, the seeds are portable, and so when people moved,
they moved with the seeds, and so therefore they made
their way into all of these different cuisines and through
all of these different trade routes. And because the people,
in the case of English language histories writing about them,

(20:46):
you know, they didn't come from some exotic place. Um,
they just came from Europe. So therefore we weren't bowled
over by them like we were by say, cinnamon, um. Right,
and so without that boost of exoticism, it was just like, oh,
yeah it's ill. It's still is everywhere cool. Yeah, I

(21:06):
don't need to write about that, it's just still yeah. Yeah.
I mean I didn't really look into it, but because
it's called dill weed, I did assume like it must
have been pretty like yeah, yeah, there it is. Um.
And also like, no joke, it was so much of
the results when I was searching, we're about pickles. So
I think that makes it a bit difficult as well,

(21:28):
because people are more excited to write about pickles, I
guess about dill least that was my experience. Yeah, and
and yeah, it's for sure right, it's it's incorporated in
so many different cuisines. Um. Please please, if you have
a recipe from your neck of the world that incorporates
still seeds or fresh still, let us know yes, yes, es, yes,

(21:54):
but all right. I think that brings us to the
end of what we have to say about dil for now.
It does. We do have some listener mail for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break for
a word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes,

(22:18):
thank you, and we're back with listen like the Falling
of the Leaves. Yes, Um, Barbie Root. I just finished
listening to another podcast with the two of you talking

(22:38):
about fictional foods in the show I've Never Heard Of.
Got me wondering why there's not an episode about any
of the fictional food that is my world. The obvious
answer is that I am a reader rather than a
watcher of TV or film. One of my favorite fictional
foods is from Sue Grafton's novels about private investigator Kinsey Milhone.
Kinsey is too busy to eat much food at her

(23:00):
house and frequently comes home late at night, and her
only choice is a peanut, butter and pickle sandwich made
with chunky peanut butter and bread and butter pickles. Since
I keep neither of those items or bread at my house,
it is always a fantasy for me to have one.
I love that you can talk about things totally unknown
to me and make them so much fun. Well, that's

(23:22):
good to know. I know, I know you've written in
about that before, and it continues to be a relief
because we do get so excited about those episodes, and
I mean we joke about it when we do them,
but we're always like, who if you don't know what
we're talking about, I don't know that this makes anything. Yeah,
oh yeah, although I don't know, man, there there's any

(23:43):
number of topics that we go into about real foods
in the real world that that one or both of
us have very little experience with. That We're like, oh,
this could be anything, like what truth? That is very
very true. Um. But also I've never heard of this.
I've never heard of this particular fictional property. But the

(24:06):
peanut butter and pickle sandwich I have heard of. Tried
it was pretty good. Did we did we make one it?
Or was that a we did mayo peanut butter pickle. Yeah,
and I wasn't happy about the mayo part. But the
pickle peanut butter I get. I get that. Yeah, salty
and sweet, it's delicious. Yeah, yeah, but I love that.

(24:28):
That's like a I didn't know to me that kind
of came out of the internet. A couple of years ago.
I like that it's included in this and that it's
also kind of a fantasy for you items. M hm
should add it to the list. Yeah, bread and butter pickles.
I've been thinking about dill pickles all episode, and now
I'm like, oh, but bread and butter pickles. Yeah, people

(24:52):
have their pickle preferences, that is for sure. Oh yeah,
it's like okay anyway, anyway, uh, Julia wrote growing up
in St. Petersburg, I remember constantly going to Tampa for
authentic Cubans, Cuban sandwiches, that is, and there were so
many old, well established sandwich shops using La Segunda bread

(25:13):
and making an amazing traditional Cuban sandwich. I never even
new Miami tried to pretend it had something to do
with it until I was older, and I immediately recognized
it as hogwash. While it is less prominent now, the
Tampa Bay area was awash in Cuban culture and cuisine.
Most of the coffee shops sold Cuban coffee, and many
of the pastries were Cuban derived. I distinctly remember the

(25:37):
difference between my mom's American style sugar cookies and the
amazing Cuban style sugar cookies we would get at the
beach or went out and about Cuban sugar cookies have
this wonderful, crunchy sandy top layer that's just so text
really exciting, and I'm getting nostalgic thinking about it. While
Albertson's is no longer in Florida, I distinctly remember that
they had big hot cases full of fresh baked Cuban

(25:58):
bread by the registers, and I later learned it's normally
French bread. Seeing how much Cuban histories in the area,
I can't imagine anyone believing swampy Miami could have created
this sandwich. I think the news media willingly printing such
blatant lies helped a road the public trust in the media.
The idea of fake news was born in Miami when

(26:20):
they tried to steal a classic Tampa sandwich and claim
it as their own strong opinions. I think some people
have written about this recently, because there was an article
that got published about this whole thing pretty pretty recently,
And I love it. You all are like, no, wait

(26:43):
a minute, it's so great, it's so great, that's wonderful. Yeah,
I love um. There's one of the like office park
food courts that I went to recently by our new
offices has a Cuban sandwich place and they offer like
a sandwich press place, and they've got two varieties of

(27:06):
the Cuban, the Miami variety and the Tampa variety, And
I adore, I adore that they're not even choosing. They're
just like, look y'all, like like order what you want,
Like yeah, but that's essentially us. In that episode, we
did Cuban Sandwich in an actual shot form where we're
just like raising your hands up, backing away what you want.

(27:26):
I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to
tell you know, it's fantastic. Oh my gosh. Yes, well
definitely check out that episode if if like the fictional
food you're listening to this and aren't entirely sure we're
talking about because we talked about it in Cuban Sandwich
episode and length, but yes, thanks to both of these

(27:47):
listeners of her writing in If you would like to
write to us, you can our email as hello at
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Savor is production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts
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(28:08):
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Fagin and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and
we hope that lots more good things are coming your
way