October 24, 2025 • 42 mins
The meat and tomalley from this large, squat crab are considered delicacies – partially because their populations are slightly mysterious. Anney and Lauren dip into the biology and history of the Dungeness crab.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Saber Protection of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie
Reason and I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Lorn vogel Bomb, and today we have an episode for
you about dungeness crab.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yes, you know, we love doing these seafood episodes, and
there was a reason that this was on your mind, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, So so Annie and I have been kind of
brainstorming halloweeny kind of kind of topics and we've got,
you know, a few ones that are directly in store.
But then I was like, all right, like what else, Like,
we've got another week before Halloween. What else can we
do that's kind of spooky? And then I was like, crabs, yes,
(00:47):
some kind of shellfish obviously. I think scallops honestly are
still the spookiest looking to me, but crabs, especially the
long legged ones, are close second. And these guys aren't
as spooky as they could be, but their legs do
look quite threatening.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
In general, I wouldn't mess with a crab.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
It's the scuttling man maybe scuttling, and I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Sometimes they get in groups, oh man, the groups.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
The groups. It's just they move wrong and their skeletons
are on the outside, and I don't appreciate it. I
don't appreciate it. But they are delicious. Oh they're so tasty.
And I actually think they're really cute their little faces.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I love this that you're like, they're terrifying. But look
how cute though, Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
How adorable. As long as they're not, you know, coming
for me, that's.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Fair, that's fair, you know. Yeah, I do love a
good I love crab in general. I love a good
dungeness crab.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
You know the thing, I'm not totally sure I've ever
had one, because like, I'm an East Coast girl and
this is like a pretty specifically West Coast thing. And
now I'm going like, I must have I met maybe
maybe at Laplia in at the Wynn, Las Vegas, there
was dungeness crab on something. Surely in decades of eating food,
(02:27):
I'm incorrect, and I've definitely eaten it.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I don't know. Yeah, I don't know, Lauren, you might
have to rectify this.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I mean, oh, no, I have to go eat some crab.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
What I have definitely had it. It's very good. My
What a strange thing to say. But my family is
a very big crab family, very fond of eating crab.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Love that, so, especially since y'all are like, well, you're
solidly landlocked at your parents' house, but you do have
coastal family.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I do. And they that was their thing, Like their
gumbo had a lot of crab in it. Okay, like
everything they did was a lot of crab. Obviously probably
not dungeness crab, because we are it is more of
a Western thing. That was a Southeastern thing. But I've
got to experience a lot of crab and it's delicious.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, no, I love it. It's one
of those things that if I see it on a menu,
it will it will heavily sway me.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yes, yes, Well you can see our past crab episodes.
It just seafood episodes in general that we've done.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, yeah, we've done red king crab, blue crab, artificial crab,
and or imitation crab. I should say, And uh, I
guess like Old Bay is adjacent.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess this brings us to
our question, sure, dungeness crab, what is it?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Well, h Dungeness crab is a type of marine crustacean
that yields like relatively a bunch of leg and claw
meat that's sweet and rich in flavor, with like a
medium firm texture that's a little chewy but also kind
of buttery. The crabs have a wide, grounded, diamond shaped
body and sort of stubby legs that end in these
(04:37):
wicked looking points, sort of like if you made like
a like a wide slice of pizza mobile and scuttley. Yeah,
that the head is at the crust end. Yeah, they can.
They can grow up to about ten inches wide across
their shell. That's some twenty five centimeters, and those hard
(04:57):
shells are orangish to brownish purpleish on top and then
sort of cream colored underneath, though once they're cooked they'll
turn bright orange red and golden. They have four pairs
of walking legs on their sides and a pair of
larger grabby claws up front that have a serrated inner
edge and are used for doing whatever the crab wants
(05:20):
to do. Really, those legs and claws are where the
crab meat that we eat is like. Mostly, some people
do use some of the organs to make sauces or
fish stock. For example, the crabs are often boiled or
steamed whole, and then the meat will be removed and
eaten by itself with a dipping sauce, often something spicy
(05:41):
or buttery or both, maybe as an appetizer or like
the protein on a dinner plate. The meat can also
be added to all kinds of dishes, though, salads, soups, dips, pastas,
or rice dishes mixed with breadcrumbs and other stuff to
make savory seasoned crab cakes. And you know the like
(06:02):
the sweetness of crab meat always gets me, like along
with the brininess of it. It's just this corporeal form
of like soft lapping ocean waves. Yeah, the cravings love,
(06:22):
Oh my gosh, the crazy, the cravings.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Oh all right. Uh.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Zoological name Metacarcinis magister, although some researchers like arguing about
the genus Dungeness Crabs live in sandy ocean floor environments,
mostly in like shallow ish waters, but out up to
two hundred and thirty meters a depth. They'll bury themselves
in sand or kind of hide among plants like eel grass,
(06:51):
and will pray opportunistically on anything they can catch, worms, shellfish,
other crustaceans fish. Their range is along the northeast coast
of the Pacific Ocean, so like southern California all the
way up to Alaska. Other than us, the adult crabs
have to watch out for larger fish, birds, eels, otters,
(07:13):
and octopuses. The appropriate size for catching is considered like
one and a half pounds or more, and they usually
top out at about three pounds. That's like a little
less than one to around one and a half kilos.
They have about a one to four meat to shell ratio,
so your average two pound crab will yield around a
(07:36):
half pound of meat. The crabs reach maturity at two
to three years and harvest size around four years. They
can live for over ten years in the wild, and
their life cycle goes something like this, all right. Female
crabs will molt in the summer and will mate before
the new shell grows in in fairly shallow waters. The
(07:57):
female crabs will then move out deeper to lay their
eggs in the water column in the winter, like one
and a half to two and a half million eggs,
because a lot of them ain't gonna make it. Oh
my gosh, they're teeny tiny and very orange. The seasons
there can differ and will even flip the further north
(08:19):
that you go like. These buddies have a fairly wide
range of climatic habitats, and that impacts their biology and
behavior perhaps obviously, but yeah. They hatch as these teens
plantonic larvae that spend about three months just like drifting
in currents and eating even teensier things. Then they molt
and start looking a little bit like a crab and
(08:41):
start moving back shorewards. Then will molt again into a
juvenile stage, settle to the bottom, ideally on an oyster
bed or some other kind of calcium rich habitat to
help them grow their shells, and spend a couple of
years just growing there before reaching maturity and heading back
out into deeper water again. The season for dungeness crab
(09:02):
is a few months after their last molt, with the
best crabs caught toward the end of the catching season,
as they'll have had a little bit more time to
fill out. From what I've read, Correct me if I'm wrong,
I'm not a crab fisher. Generally only the male crabs
are caught, especially in commercial fishery, and you can tell
by the shape of this abdominal flap on their belly.
(09:25):
It'll be narrower in males and kind of semi circular
in females. They're often harvested using what's called circular baited pots,
which are these like steel cage or framed net structures
designed so that only harvest sized crabs get caught. Smaller
crabs can just scuttle on out, and it's easy for
(09:46):
fishers to release unintended by catch animals. In the US,
different states have different regulations, and Alaska's regulations further vary
by region. I understand British Columbia's catches are nationally managed,
but there are lots of different sustainability programs in place
in different areas. For example, several fisheries watch every season
(10:08):
for crabs getting caught that still have soft shells, because
that indicates that baiting season might not be concluded yet,
and so they'll shut down for a little while to
let the crabs do their thing. You can find dungenous
crabs for sale live, usually local to where they're caught,
or fresh or frozen whole in sections or maybe leg
(10:31):
clusters or as picked cooked meat. They're often cooked first
if they're going to be frozen and shipped, but your
milage may vary depending on what you've got in your area.
And yeah, other than that sweet, rich meat in the
legs and claws. You can also eat the to malle
not to malle to mallie, which biologically it is the
(10:55):
crabs hepato pancreas where it stores fat and nutrie some
like processes waste, and culinarily is often called the crab
mustard or butter. Because it's yellowish in color and kind
of fatty. It can be considered a delicacy eaten by itself,
or that in the kind of brine that you get
(11:15):
in the shell after you cook. The crab can be
mixed with herbs and maybe some melted butter to make
like a dipping sauce for your picked crab. The rest
of the crab might be used to flavor stock or
for other purposes, though I do understand that some of
the other organs can have a bit of a bitter flavor.
If you're looking to use whole dungeness crabs for the
first time, look up a cooking guide. They've got plenty
(11:36):
of them online. And similarly to how neither of us
are doctors, neither of us are really cooks. Technically, I
mean we cook things, but like professionally speaking.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Oh no, And in fact, I have a very hilarious
story of me trying to cook fresh grot crab. Oh yeah,
and let me tell you, I've never had a meal
as silent as that one.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Oh no, because we all knew we probably hadn't done
it correctly. Oh but we wanted to eat the crab
anyway because they had died for you.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
So yeaheah. Well, I mean, did anyone get food poisoning?
Speaker 1 (12:22):
No, but we all thought we would. Oh what a
fun meal, you know, So yeah, look it up.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Oh wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely look it up. The
cooking times that I saw were like twenty plus minutes,
so you know.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Well, in terms of sustainability, dungeness crab that's caught using
the aforementioned pots is it's jenny really considered to be
not always a best choice and sustainable seafood, but usually
a good alternative. It kind of depends on exactly where
you get it from and the season at hand, and
(13:11):
a lot of other things that are going on, so
always check, always check your guides.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yes, absolutely, And what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Oh, you know, generally speaking, crab by itself is pretty
good for you, you know, like a pretty good punch
of protein and fats in there. If you're dipping it
in a bunch of butter sauce, that might be a
little bit of overload, but overloads are sort of nice.
(13:45):
So yeah, have a good time crab.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
I feel like crab is a treat in a lot
of ways.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
It tends to be expensive. I had this moment where
I was arguing with myself about whether to say lunch
and dinner plate or just dinner plate earlier because and
then I decided, like, who has crab for lunch? What
kind of.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Rich soul?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Right, what kind of decade into human does that? I'm
sure people do that, but yeah, and then I got
into small arment argument with myself about the meaning of
dinner versus supper, and I don't know, it turned into
a whole thing, and and I changed the line so
(14:38):
that it could be simpler, and now I'm telling you
about it. So here we are.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Such just the life of a food podcaster. Yeah, yeah,
well we do have some numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
We do so yearly harvests across their entire range can
be up to about fifty four milli pounds. Yep, yep.
It's apparently the most lucrative fishery in Washington State, not
sure about the other regions. We also a festival we
(15:17):
just missed, crab Fest, which is the Dungeness Crab festival
that's held in Port Angelus in Washington every year in October,
the same weekend as Canada's Thanksgiving. So yeah, just missed it.
And yeah, Port Angelus is like just across the Salish
Sea from Victoria, British Columbia, and so one of the
(15:39):
festival slogans is save a Turkey, Eat a crab.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
They do host around twelve thousand visitors a year, and
the festival, other than like you know, normal festival stuff
like music and crafts and stuff like that, they do
feature a love I Search and Rescue demonstration, which I
love but yeah, also local food and beverage vendors, and
a festival crab dinner featuring crabs that are like kept
(16:11):
live and cooked on site and served with corn on
the cob, coleslaw, and softened butter. They do recommend pre
ordering your dinner to guarantee availability because local fissures provide
the supply fresh, so they kind of need to know
how much they're trying to give them, and they serve
they serve some fourteen thousand pounds of crab a year
(16:34):
at an average weight of two pounds per crab.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Okay, well that sounds delicious.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah right right.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I'm in fully committed. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
They have really cute hats that seem to be popular. There,
little little red crab caps that have all the little
legs and the eyes stocks coming up off of them.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I love that. Yeah, I love a good hat. If
there are bibs involved, that would be even better.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
I did not notice photos of bibs, but it might
have been because I was focused on the hats.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
The hats are very attention grabbing for sure.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
You get even from a still photo, you get an
idea of the wiggliness, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yeah, yeah, well that's fantastic. And listeners if you.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Have yeah, if you just went, let us know.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Oh please, let us know. I have so many cravings
right now. So if you have recipes, let us know.
But we do have quite a history for you.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
We do, we do, and we are going to get
into that as soon as we get back from a
quick break. For a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Or back, Thank you sponsor, yes, thank you. Okay, So
the dungeness crab is indigenous to the northeastern Pacific waters,
which range from about Alaska to Mexico. Records indicate that
people have been eating crab in general since at least
at least the first century CE, though probably far earlier.
(18:28):
For hundreds of years, Indigenous peoples along the North American
Pacific coast sustainably harvested and consumed these crabs. They speared them,
they caught them in traps, or collected them at low tide,
and the catch was roasted, steamed in shallow pits, or
boiled in pots, or sometimes used as baked or economically.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, I know that specifically Coast Salish peoples used these
crabs economically, being that they lived in what's now like
the larger Seattle Vancouver kind of area. Yeah, but ye,
I mean, like it's a beach food if you had
access to beaches. They're a lovely natural resource. They were often, furthermore,
a communal harvest item, like shared at feasts and gatherings. Also,
(19:14):
I found it interesting that, like everything I read from
several different peoples mentioned specifically that they did not harvest
soft shell crab, either because they didn't like it or
like they understood that that was mating season and biologically
important to leave the crabs alone during.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Right, So jumping ahead, the first non native commercial crab
fisheries started opening in the mid eighteen hundreds, and this
is when we start to see crab appearing on menus
along the West coast. In the town of Dungeness, Washington,
the namesake of this crab, the industry got underway in
(19:55):
eighteen forty eight.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Dungeness itself was a place borrowed from this like jetting
bit of coastal England, which I read and couldn't confirm,
but I want to believe it. I read that the
term comes from a French term for dangerous nose, from
the jut of the land out into the waters.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Dangerous nose all right. American mineralogist, naturalist, and geologist James
Dana penned the first official description of the Dungeness crab
in eighteen fifty two. Oregon's first recorded catch was in
eighteen eighty nine, and then as more Europeans set up
(20:45):
villages along the West coast in the eighteen hundreds and
early nineteen hundreds, they became increasingly interested in making money
from catching and selling the Dungeness crab. Cities like Seattle
were hungry for more seaf food, so the demand was
already there. With the development of railroads and refrigeration, commercial
(21:06):
production of dungeness crabs only expanded by the nineteen twenties,
thanks in part to the growing restaurant scene along the
West Coast. Dungeness crabs were often associated with flyne dining,
with dishes like crab bisk and crab louis, which I've
(21:27):
never had.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
I don't believe I have either.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Okay, well, a lot of people have tried to get
to the bottom of it, and no one seemingly has,
but yes, people have tried. The origins are hard to
pin down. Both Seattle and San Francisco lay claim to
this salad of dungeness crab bolt eggs, lettuce and pink
louis dressing, though modern versions they have all kinds of
(21:55):
additions in them. Seattle's Olympic Club has the earliest claim,
from nineteen oh four. The story goes that an opera
singer who frequented the club would request this dish until
the kitchen ran out of the necessary ingredients, which I
feel like we've heard this story before. I don't think
that's a new story.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, the whole opera singer like more and more of
the anyway, Yeah, share exactly.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah. Upon digging, it turns out the singer didn't perform
or stay at the club during this timeframe, so who knows.
Another claim comes from nineteen oh eight, when chef of
San Francisco's restaurant Poodle Dog, Louis Gutard allegedly came up
(22:42):
with a terragon dressing for crab legs. And this dressing
is notably not the dressing that we use today for
the traditional crab louis.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, the crab louis dressing is like a mayo and
ketchup plus other stuff kind of thing. It's usually got
some like words tosher, paprika, sweet pickle, relish, that kind
of stuff in there. So that's the that's the situation
with it, and does not sound at all like what
he was up to.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
No, not at all, not at all. The Portland Council
of Jewish Women published the Neighborhood Cookbook in nineteen twelve,
and it came with a recipe for crab louis that
did call for the pink dressing that is now pretty
synonymous with the dish. They didn't credit anybody though. That's
kind of a source of like where did this come from?
(23:34):
San Francisco's Bohemian San Francisco, which was sort of a
dining guide slash recipe book type thing, published a recipe
from Solari's restaurant for Solari's Crab Louis and nineteen fourteen,
still it was missing a few key ingredients. That same year,
a hotel restaurant in Spokane, Washington included krab Louis, which
(23:59):
they claimed was named after the owner. So we don't
know essentially one of those dishes that yeah, yeah, I mean,
you know, I mean, like surely there is a specific
concept that we have of it today. But I mean
it makes sense that people would put lovely crab on
(24:20):
top of lovely salad ingredients and then eat them. Yes, yes,
and I mean heavy hitters like Juliet Child was a
huge fan. Oh yeah, Like, I'm sure once once people
(24:40):
got word of it, it was getting into all kinds
of things. In the nineteen forties, a lot of crab
harvesters switched from nets to crab traps, leading to larger halls.
Over the years. Researchers and those in the industry haven
toured the dungeness crab population and the impact of catching
(25:04):
these crabs, which has led to seasonal closures during mating times.
Improved fishing equipment that helps prevent bycatch also played a
hand in developing environmentally friendly fishing practices. Worth noting there
has been a lot of state specific back and forth
on laws around catch limits over the years, going as
(25:25):
far back as the early nineteen hundreds when it comes
to dungeness crab. Despite all of that, there have been
some ups and downs in dungeness crabs landings, and those
studying why believe it might have to do with the
conditions in the Pacific. For instance, landings were going up
(25:46):
from the nineteen thirties to the sixties before the industry
experienced a major crash that it didn't rebound from until
the nineteen eighties. Worth mentioning this could have to do
also with the number of crabbers and fleets and the
improved technology that put a decent dent in the dungeness
crab population that was later mitigated with catch regulations. In
(26:13):
two thousand and nine, the dungeness crab became Oregon's official
state crustacean oh I love that I love an official
state crustacean.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Oh yeah, as opposed to those unofficial state crustaceans. What
are they doing?
Speaker 1 (26:27):
What is that? Beginning in twenty fourteen, the industry saw
a sharp increase in whales getting tangled up in dungeness
crab fishing equipment. The situation reached a point that the
season closed early in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah, there's been a problem with humpbacking gray whales in
the States, and it's from what I understand, it's really
pretty rare that whales do get tangled up in these
nets because these are ground these are ground pots there.
They're put on the ocean floor, and they're not I mean,
they're maybe three or four feet across, you know, about
(27:06):
a meter, but they're not gigantic. The problem is is that,
like the whales, populations aren't doing great to begin with,
and so everyone of course wants to watch out for
any unnecessary damage or deaths to to these animals.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Absolutely, and that brings us to our I feel like
every episode we have something like this, uh huh. So,
warming ocean waters present dangers to the dungeness crab population
along the North American Pacific coast, and that's because the
warming waters allow for things like toxic algae blooms, increased
(27:46):
excidification and hypoxia, or low oxygen levels.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah, the acid and the oxygen levels can affect the
crabs themselves, you know, aquatic animals being very sensitive to
even small changes in those kinds of areas, whereas the
toxic algae blooms don't hurt them, but they'll eat the
algae and build up these compounds and their bodies that
(28:12):
are toxic. Two creatures like us, So if we eat
a crab that has been exposed to too much of this,
it can make us sick.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
And this has in part led to several delays in
the harvesting season of the Dungeness fisheries. During the twenty
fifteen to twenty sixteen season, a four month delay in
the season led to a significant loss of revenue and
the declaration of a federal disaster. Wow. Yeah, I mean
(28:45):
it was a big deal. A lot of people. That's
where their income. Oh yeah, that's their entire lives.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah, and in places where I mean, like I said
it is it is the most lucrative fishery in Washington State.
And I believe that if that's true for them. I
couldn't find the numbers to back it up, but I
strongly believe it's it's if not the most it's way
up there in other areas where this is a catch
And yeah, so if you if suddenly your population goes away,
(29:16):
then it's a very serious thing.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah. Absolutely, And this is another one of those episodes
where if listeners are encouraged, I recommend you can. You
can find a lot of information about this about the
sustainability of dungeness crab, and it's really interesting actually about
(29:40):
about how it has worked, but also how they're dealing
with climate change and things.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Like that, right and how right. It can be a
delicate population and you know, animals behave in ways that
we don't always understand and they move around and right,
and so it can be stuff that we're doing, and
it can be stuff that they're up to, and it's complicated.
It's really complicated. But there are there is a lot
(30:06):
of research being done. There are a lot of groups
that are working with a bunch of First Nations peoples
and groups like that who are just trying to work
together to figure out how to respect these animals and
respect the oceans that we're pulling them from and just
(30:29):
make sure that you know we're enjoying this nice thing
that we can enjoy, but doing it doing it in.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
A good way. Yes, absolutely, And as always, listeners, please
write in with recipes or experiences. Yes, been to any crabfest.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Oh my goodness, if you've been crabbing, yeah, I would
love to hear all about it.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Yes, please please let us know. But that is what
we have to say the Dungeness crab for now.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
It is. We do already have some listener mail for you, though,
and we're going to get into that as soon as
we get back from one more quick break for a
word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
And we're back. Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you. And
I went back with listener m h, don't mess with crabs.
That's what I always say.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Gosh, no, I wouldn't know.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Never. It's foolish too, It's foolish, Christine wrote. I was
peacefully munching on some slices of Provolone delce when the
Provolone episode popped up on my feed, which was Sarah Dipitus.
I think you will agree. At first, I was concerned
(32:03):
it might be Fauvolone, since I got it from Costco,
but no, it's proper a Riccio brand Provolone dulce. I
vastly prefermed the dulce to the pecante, which often has
an unpleasant smell to me. I think it's an autistic
thing because the smell doesn't always get to me. But
(32:23):
this cheese episode reminded me of something I meant to
pass on after the Yarlsberg episode. Yarlesberg is one of
my favorite cheeses, but I didn't think it was Norwegian.
I found the idea of them insisting Yarlesborg taste the
same regardless of which factory produces it fascinating, so I
decided to see where Australia gets It's Yarlsberg, Ireland, by
(32:46):
the way. But in my reading on the website, I
came across a fact I can't recall if you mentioned.
Yarlsberg cheese is lactoast free. During the processing. To get
the taste and texture right, the lactose is broken down
into its constituent glucose and galactose, which means that those
of us with dodgy digestive tracks can eat it without
(33:10):
having to scarf down the lacteese first our risk a
night you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. Oh no,
I don't remember that coming up in the reading at all.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I know that I read it, I can't remember whether
I said it out loud or not. It's a fact
that is true for a number of aged cheeses, and
exactly how true it is see above Rea. We're not doctors, like,
I'm never looking to give medical advice, and I would
never want someone to have that night that I wouldn't
(33:46):
wish on my worst enemy. So I tend to. But
but yeah, like a lot of the time, especially the
longer that a cheese is aged, the less likely it
is to contain any amount of lactose. Darmer if I
said it out loud. But but yeah, that Aricia brand
being being a really big one, and uh yeah, I'm
(34:08):
glad that y'all can get it in Australia. I need to.
I still haven't gone cheese shopping after that episode. I
still need to.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
What a shame. What a shame. But also I do
love when when y'all listeners write in about kind of
these coincidences of just.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
So often I'm like, all right, cool.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Maybe we are tapping into some kind of zeitgeist we
don't know about.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Maybe maybe, Taylor wrote, I've been to a couple of
A and W locations, one in Baker, California, and the
other in Trenton, Michigan. The Baker one was more of
a rest stop location, situated in a building with a subway,
pizza hut, and wingstop, so it didn't have much pizazz
to it. On the other hand, the Trenton one was fantastic.
(35:01):
It was its own small building where you could sit
outside and the waiters roller skate over to bring you
your meal. It was really neat. The root beer floats
were delicious. Of course, I don't even remember that much
about the food, but as a kid, I'm sure the
chicken tenders and French fries were solid. Unfortunately, that location
closed in recent years, and I'm just finding out that
it was the first Awn Michigan, and other people have
(35:24):
fond memories of it being the best one around. Also, Annie,
I know you said you don't like Doctor Pepper, but
as an avid Doctor Pepper fan, I want to assure
you that root beer is completely different. I'm no match
for Lauren's poetic descriptions, but if I had to describe
the difference. I'd say that Doctor Pepper is like the
(35:45):
feeling when you first get through the gates of an
amusement park and see all of the rides and you're
ready to hop on one. Root Beer is more like
the feeling of going on a hike and stumbling on
a waterfall, that feeling of gentle surprise and awe. I
loved the IPA's episode. I always forget the IPAs are
(36:08):
a paler beer with how bitter they are. I just
assume they're.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
A darker beer. Lol.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I'm not a beer person. I'm an avid coffee drinker,
so my brain makes the coffee connection. The darker it is,
the stronger and more bitter it can be. My husband
is a big fan of IPAs, and luckily for me,
he beats the stereotype of being snobby and annoying about it.
He just really doesn't enjoy sweet drinks at all and
prefers better flavors, so IPA's always hit the spot for him.
(36:37):
I'm a ciders and sours girl myself, but more than anything,
I prefer a cocktail or a glass of wine. On
a personal note, lately, I've been listening to the podcast
whenever I do laundry, and when a new episode comes out,
now I'm motivated to do some laundry. You're well, yeah, yeah,
(36:59):
that's how I qa all of our episodes, like while
I'm doing chores, so like kind of same. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Absolutely, this is fantastic. I love the because I remember
this too, being from a small town where there's like
one same chain, but there was one franchise that was
better than the other one, like.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Oh sure, yeah, yeah yeah, And anytime that you have
a car hop kind of situation involved, yeah, that is fabulous.
I am still enchanted by that as an adult. I
feel a little bit bad for the servers now, but
I'm like, look, there's a whimsy to this that is unconstrained.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
My friend and I once when we were in high school,
we walked through a sonic like drive drive through. Yeah,
but we walked through and put our order in on
foot and then stood in the parking and they came
up to us in skates and gave us our meal.
(38:09):
I don't know why we did it that way, because
you can't just order. You don't have to.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, there's a window that you can walk up to,
isn't there?
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Yes, Okay, but they brought it out.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Well.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
It was quite comical.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
That's amazing. I love this for you guys. I'm impressive
they did it. I feel like in my teenage Sanigan
Shenanigan's years, like we tried to walk through drive throughs
and like the McDonald's or whatever, We're like not having it.
They were like not today, man, They're like, look, man,
we're tired. We got a lot of fries to cook.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Leave us be. It was very embarrassing. It was a
very genuine mistake that we made. Know why we thought
what was going We had just come from six Flags,
so maybe we were a little little loop.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, I do love your description, yes, of root Beer
versus Doctor Pepper, and I.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Would say that those are very accurate. Yeah, I think
that's completely correct because that that that waterfall kind of
there's like there's like a coolness and like a sort
of like a like a herbal vibe of a forest
that you're getting, and Doctor Pepper has more this like
candy bright sort of pop to it.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
So yeah, well, and I like it sounds like root
Beer is sort of stumbling upon something you weren't expecting,
Like it wasn't what we thought it would be. It
goes a lot of places. It goes a lot of places.
Uh uh yeah, I pas got to watch out for
(40:00):
I pas.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
They can they can do it, they can do it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
I've shared a similar thought where I've assumed for a
long time, the darker the beer, the more alcohol.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Oh huh oh yeah, no, certainly, certainly not. You can
find a very pale beer that is rip rorn h.
I got so used to I PA's being so bitter
for a while that now I assume that pale beers
(40:34):
are going to be happy, which is not true. Like
my brain knows that, but for some reason, my face
thinks it. And furthermore, when I get a hold of
something that is bitter and it's darker, uh like a
black Eye PA, for example, I'm surprised even if I've
(40:55):
read the word. If I read read the words black
eye PA on a menu, ordered the beer and I
drink it, I'm like, oh, it's so bitter for a
dark beer.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Those things get solidified in your mind. It's hard to
shake them.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
It is it is, it is, it is.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Well. Thank you so much to both of these listeners
for writing in. If you would like to try to us,
you can our emails, Hello.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
At savorpod dot com. We're also on social media. You
can find us on Instagram and blue Sky at savor pod,
and we do hope to hear from you. Savor is
a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to
our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to
(41:53):
you for listening, and we hope that lots more good
things are coming your way
Hello, and welcome to Saber Protection of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie
Reason and I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Lorn vogel Bomb, and today we have an episode for
you about dungeness crab.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yes, you know, we love doing these seafood episodes, and
there was a reason that this was on your mind, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, So so Annie and I have been kind of
brainstorming halloweeny kind of kind of topics and we've got,
you know, a few ones that are directly in store.
But then I was like, all right, like what else, Like,
we've got another week before Halloween. What else can we
do that's kind of spooky? And then I was like, crabs, yes,
(00:47):
some kind of shellfish obviously. I think scallops honestly are
still the spookiest looking to me, but crabs, especially the
long legged ones, are close second. And these guys aren't
as spooky as they could be, but their legs do
look quite threatening.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
In general, I wouldn't mess with a crab.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
It's the scuttling man maybe scuttling, and I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Sometimes they get in groups, oh man, the groups.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
The groups. It's just they move wrong and their skeletons
are on the outside, and I don't appreciate it. I
don't appreciate it. But they are delicious. Oh they're so tasty.
And I actually think they're really cute their little faces.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I love this that you're like, they're terrifying. But look
how cute though, Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
How adorable. As long as they're not, you know, coming
for me, that's.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Fair, that's fair, you know. Yeah, I do love a
good I love crab in general. I love a good
dungeness crab.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
You know the thing, I'm not totally sure I've ever
had one, because like, I'm an East Coast girl and
this is like a pretty specifically West Coast thing. And
now I'm going like, I must have I met maybe
maybe at Laplia in at the Wynn, Las Vegas, there
was dungeness crab on something. Surely in decades of eating food,
(02:27):
I'm incorrect, and I've definitely eaten it.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I don't know. Yeah, I don't know, Lauren, you might
have to rectify this.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I mean, oh, no, I have to go eat some crab.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
What I have definitely had it. It's very good. My
What a strange thing to say. But my family is
a very big crab family, very fond of eating crab.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Love that, so, especially since y'all are like, well, you're
solidly landlocked at your parents' house, but you do have
coastal family.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I do. And they that was their thing, Like their
gumbo had a lot of crab in it. Okay, like
everything they did was a lot of crab. Obviously probably
not dungeness crab, because we are it is more of
a Western thing. That was a Southeastern thing. But I've
got to experience a lot of crab and it's delicious.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, no, I love it. It's one
of those things that if I see it on a menu,
it will it will heavily sway me.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yes, yes, Well you can see our past crab episodes.
It just seafood episodes in general that we've done.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, yeah, we've done red king crab, blue crab, artificial crab,
and or imitation crab. I should say, And uh, I
guess like Old Bay is adjacent.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess this brings us to
our question, sure, dungeness crab, what is it?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Well, h Dungeness crab is a type of marine crustacean
that yields like relatively a bunch of leg and claw
meat that's sweet and rich in flavor, with like a
medium firm texture that's a little chewy but also kind
of buttery. The crabs have a wide, grounded, diamond shaped
body and sort of stubby legs that end in these
(04:37):
wicked looking points, sort of like if you made like
a like a wide slice of pizza mobile and scuttley. Yeah,
that the head is at the crust end. Yeah, they can.
They can grow up to about ten inches wide across
their shell. That's some twenty five centimeters, and those hard
(04:57):
shells are orangish to brownish purpleish on top and then
sort of cream colored underneath, though once they're cooked they'll
turn bright orange red and golden. They have four pairs
of walking legs on their sides and a pair of
larger grabby claws up front that have a serrated inner
edge and are used for doing whatever the crab wants
(05:20):
to do. Really, those legs and claws are where the
crab meat that we eat is like. Mostly, some people
do use some of the organs to make sauces or
fish stock. For example, the crabs are often boiled or
steamed whole, and then the meat will be removed and
eaten by itself with a dipping sauce, often something spicy
(05:41):
or buttery or both, maybe as an appetizer or like
the protein on a dinner plate. The meat can also
be added to all kinds of dishes, though, salads, soups, dips, pastas,
or rice dishes mixed with breadcrumbs and other stuff to
make savory seasoned crab cakes. And you know the like
(06:02):
the sweetness of crab meat always gets me, like along
with the brininess of it. It's just this corporeal form
of like soft lapping ocean waves. Yeah, the cravings love,
(06:22):
Oh my gosh, the crazy, the cravings.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Oh all right. Uh.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Zoological name Metacarcinis magister, although some researchers like arguing about
the genus Dungeness Crabs live in sandy ocean floor environments,
mostly in like shallow ish waters, but out up to
two hundred and thirty meters a depth. They'll bury themselves
in sand or kind of hide among plants like eel grass,
(06:51):
and will pray opportunistically on anything they can catch, worms, shellfish,
other crustaceans fish. Their range is along the northeast coast
of the Pacific Ocean, so like southern California all the
way up to Alaska. Other than us, the adult crabs
have to watch out for larger fish, birds, eels, otters,
(07:13):
and octopuses. The appropriate size for catching is considered like
one and a half pounds or more, and they usually
top out at about three pounds. That's like a little
less than one to around one and a half kilos.
They have about a one to four meat to shell ratio,
so your average two pound crab will yield around a
(07:36):
half pound of meat. The crabs reach maturity at two
to three years and harvest size around four years. They
can live for over ten years in the wild, and
their life cycle goes something like this, all right. Female
crabs will molt in the summer and will mate before
the new shell grows in in fairly shallow waters. The
(07:57):
female crabs will then move out deeper to lay their
eggs in the water column in the winter, like one
and a half to two and a half million eggs,
because a lot of them ain't gonna make it. Oh
my gosh, they're teeny tiny and very orange. The seasons
there can differ and will even flip the further north
(08:19):
that you go like. These buddies have a fairly wide
range of climatic habitats, and that impacts their biology and
behavior perhaps obviously, but yeah. They hatch as these teens
plantonic larvae that spend about three months just like drifting
in currents and eating even teensier things. Then they molt
and start looking a little bit like a crab and
(08:41):
start moving back shorewards. Then will molt again into a
juvenile stage, settle to the bottom, ideally on an oyster
bed or some other kind of calcium rich habitat to
help them grow their shells, and spend a couple of
years just growing there before reaching maturity and heading back
out into deeper water again. The season for dungeness crab
(09:02):
is a few months after their last molt, with the
best crabs caught toward the end of the catching season,
as they'll have had a little bit more time to
fill out. From what I've read, Correct me if I'm wrong,
I'm not a crab fisher. Generally only the male crabs
are caught, especially in commercial fishery, and you can tell
by the shape of this abdominal flap on their belly.
(09:25):
It'll be narrower in males and kind of semi circular
in females. They're often harvested using what's called circular baited pots,
which are these like steel cage or framed net structures
designed so that only harvest sized crabs get caught. Smaller
crabs can just scuttle on out, and it's easy for
(09:46):
fishers to release unintended by catch animals. In the US,
different states have different regulations, and Alaska's regulations further vary
by region. I understand British Columbia's catches are nationally managed,
but there are lots of different sustainability programs in place
in different areas. For example, several fisheries watch every season
(10:08):
for crabs getting caught that still have soft shells, because
that indicates that baiting season might not be concluded yet,
and so they'll shut down for a little while to
let the crabs do their thing. You can find dungenous
crabs for sale live, usually local to where they're caught,
or fresh or frozen whole in sections or maybe leg
(10:31):
clusters or as picked cooked meat. They're often cooked first
if they're going to be frozen and shipped, but your
milage may vary depending on what you've got in your area.
And yeah, other than that sweet, rich meat in the
legs and claws. You can also eat the to malle
not to malle to mallie, which biologically it is the
(10:55):
crabs hepato pancreas where it stores fat and nutrie some
like processes waste, and culinarily is often called the crab
mustard or butter. Because it's yellowish in color and kind
of fatty. It can be considered a delicacy eaten by itself,
or that in the kind of brine that you get
(11:15):
in the shell after you cook. The crab can be
mixed with herbs and maybe some melted butter to make
like a dipping sauce for your picked crab. The rest
of the crab might be used to flavor stock or
for other purposes, though I do understand that some of
the other organs can have a bit of a bitter flavor.
If you're looking to use whole dungeness crabs for the
first time, look up a cooking guide. They've got plenty
(11:36):
of them online. And similarly to how neither of us
are doctors, neither of us are really cooks. Technically, I
mean we cook things, but like professionally speaking.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Oh no, And in fact, I have a very hilarious
story of me trying to cook fresh grot crab. Oh yeah,
and let me tell you, I've never had a meal
as silent as that one.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Oh no, because we all knew we probably hadn't done
it correctly. Oh but we wanted to eat the crab
anyway because they had died for you.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
So yeaheah. Well, I mean, did anyone get food poisoning?
Speaker 1 (12:22):
No, but we all thought we would. Oh what a
fun meal, you know, So yeah, look it up.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Oh wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely look it up. The
cooking times that I saw were like twenty plus minutes,
so you know.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Well, in terms of sustainability, dungeness crab that's caught using
the aforementioned pots is it's jenny really considered to be
not always a best choice and sustainable seafood, but usually
a good alternative. It kind of depends on exactly where
you get it from and the season at hand, and
(13:11):
a lot of other things that are going on, so
always check, always check your guides.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yes, absolutely, And what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Oh, you know, generally speaking, crab by itself is pretty
good for you, you know, like a pretty good punch
of protein and fats in there. If you're dipping it
in a bunch of butter sauce, that might be a
little bit of overload, but overloads are sort of nice.
(13:45):
So yeah, have a good time crab.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
I feel like crab is a treat in a lot
of ways.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
It tends to be expensive. I had this moment where
I was arguing with myself about whether to say lunch
and dinner plate or just dinner plate earlier because and
then I decided, like, who has crab for lunch? What
kind of.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Rich soul?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Right, what kind of decade into human does that? I'm
sure people do that, but yeah, and then I got
into small arment argument with myself about the meaning of
dinner versus supper, and I don't know, it turned into
a whole thing, and and I changed the line so
(14:38):
that it could be simpler, and now I'm telling you
about it. So here we are.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Such just the life of a food podcaster. Yeah, yeah,
well we do have some numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
We do so yearly harvests across their entire range can
be up to about fifty four milli pounds. Yep, yep.
It's apparently the most lucrative fishery in Washington State, not
sure about the other regions. We also a festival we
(15:17):
just missed, crab Fest, which is the Dungeness Crab festival
that's held in Port Angelus in Washington every year in October,
the same weekend as Canada's Thanksgiving. So yeah, just missed it.
And yeah, Port Angelus is like just across the Salish
Sea from Victoria, British Columbia, and so one of the
(15:39):
festival slogans is save a Turkey, Eat a crab.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
They do host around twelve thousand visitors a year, and
the festival, other than like you know, normal festival stuff
like music and crafts and stuff like that, they do
feature a love I Search and Rescue demonstration, which I
love but yeah, also local food and beverage vendors, and
a festival crab dinner featuring crabs that are like kept
(16:11):
live and cooked on site and served with corn on
the cob, coleslaw, and softened butter. They do recommend pre
ordering your dinner to guarantee availability because local fissures provide
the supply fresh, so they kind of need to know
how much they're trying to give them, and they serve
they serve some fourteen thousand pounds of crab a year
(16:34):
at an average weight of two pounds per crab.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Okay, well that sounds delicious.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah right right.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I'm in fully committed. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
They have really cute hats that seem to be popular. There,
little little red crab caps that have all the little
legs and the eyes stocks coming up off of them.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I love that. Yeah, I love a good hat. If
there are bibs involved, that would be even better.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
I did not notice photos of bibs, but it might
have been because I was focused on the hats.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
The hats are very attention grabbing for sure.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
You get even from a still photo, you get an
idea of the wiggliness, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yeah, yeah, well that's fantastic. And listeners if you.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Have yeah, if you just went, let us know.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Oh please, let us know. I have so many cravings
right now. So if you have recipes, let us know.
But we do have quite a history for you.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
We do, we do, and we are going to get
into that as soon as we get back from a
quick break. For a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Or back, Thank you sponsor, yes, thank you. Okay, So
the dungeness crab is indigenous to the northeastern Pacific waters,
which range from about Alaska to Mexico. Records indicate that
people have been eating crab in general since at least
at least the first century CE, though probably far earlier.
(18:28):
For hundreds of years, Indigenous peoples along the North American
Pacific coast sustainably harvested and consumed these crabs. They speared them,
they caught them in traps, or collected them at low tide,
and the catch was roasted, steamed in shallow pits, or
boiled in pots, or sometimes used as baked or economically.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, I know that specifically Coast Salish peoples used these
crabs economically, being that they lived in what's now like
the larger Seattle Vancouver kind of area. Yeah, but ye,
I mean, like it's a beach food if you had
access to beaches. They're a lovely natural resource. They were often, furthermore,
a communal harvest item, like shared at feasts and gatherings. Also,
(19:14):
I found it interesting that, like everything I read from
several different peoples mentioned specifically that they did not harvest
soft shell crab, either because they didn't like it or
like they understood that that was mating season and biologically
important to leave the crabs alone during.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Right, So jumping ahead, the first non native commercial crab
fisheries started opening in the mid eighteen hundreds, and this
is when we start to see crab appearing on menus
along the West coast. In the town of Dungeness, Washington,
the namesake of this crab, the industry got underway in
(19:55):
eighteen forty eight.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Dungeness itself was a place borrowed from this like jetting
bit of coastal England, which I read and couldn't confirm,
but I want to believe it. I read that the
term comes from a French term for dangerous nose, from
the jut of the land out into the waters.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Dangerous nose all right. American mineralogist, naturalist, and geologist James
Dana penned the first official description of the Dungeness crab
in eighteen fifty two. Oregon's first recorded catch was in
eighteen eighty nine, and then as more Europeans set up
(20:45):
villages along the West coast in the eighteen hundreds and
early nineteen hundreds, they became increasingly interested in making money
from catching and selling the Dungeness crab. Cities like Seattle
were hungry for more seaf food, so the demand was
already there. With the development of railroads and refrigeration, commercial
(21:06):
production of dungeness crabs only expanded by the nineteen twenties,
thanks in part to the growing restaurant scene along the
West Coast. Dungeness crabs were often associated with flyne dining,
with dishes like crab bisk and crab louis, which I've
(21:27):
never had.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
I don't believe I have either.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Okay, well, a lot of people have tried to get
to the bottom of it, and no one seemingly has,
but yes, people have tried. The origins are hard to
pin down. Both Seattle and San Francisco lay claim to
this salad of dungeness crab bolt eggs, lettuce and pink
louis dressing, though modern versions they have all kinds of
(21:55):
additions in them. Seattle's Olympic Club has the earliest claim,
from nineteen oh four. The story goes that an opera
singer who frequented the club would request this dish until
the kitchen ran out of the necessary ingredients, which I
feel like we've heard this story before. I don't think
that's a new story.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, the whole opera singer like more and more of
the anyway, Yeah, share exactly.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah. Upon digging, it turns out the singer didn't perform
or stay at the club during this timeframe, so who knows.
Another claim comes from nineteen oh eight, when chef of
San Francisco's restaurant Poodle Dog, Louis Gutard allegedly came up
(22:42):
with a terragon dressing for crab legs. And this dressing
is notably not the dressing that we use today for
the traditional crab louis.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, the crab louis dressing is like a mayo and
ketchup plus other stuff kind of thing. It's usually got
some like words tosher, paprika, sweet pickle, relish, that kind
of stuff in there. So that's the that's the situation
with it, and does not sound at all like what
he was up to.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
No, not at all, not at all. The Portland Council
of Jewish Women published the Neighborhood Cookbook in nineteen twelve,
and it came with a recipe for crab louis that
did call for the pink dressing that is now pretty
synonymous with the dish. They didn't credit anybody though. That's
kind of a source of like where did this come from?
(23:34):
San Francisco's Bohemian San Francisco, which was sort of a
dining guide slash recipe book type thing, published a recipe
from Solari's restaurant for Solari's Crab Louis and nineteen fourteen,
still it was missing a few key ingredients. That same year,
a hotel restaurant in Spokane, Washington included krab Louis, which
(23:59):
they claimed was named after the owner. So we don't
know essentially one of those dishes that yeah, yeah, I mean,
you know, I mean, like surely there is a specific
concept that we have of it today. But I mean
it makes sense that people would put lovely crab on
(24:20):
top of lovely salad ingredients and then eat them. Yes, yes,
and I mean heavy hitters like Juliet Child was a
huge fan. Oh yeah, Like, I'm sure once once people
(24:40):
got word of it, it was getting into all kinds
of things. In the nineteen forties, a lot of crab
harvesters switched from nets to crab traps, leading to larger halls.
Over the years. Researchers and those in the industry haven
toured the dungeness crab population and the impact of catching
(25:04):
these crabs, which has led to seasonal closures during mating times.
Improved fishing equipment that helps prevent bycatch also played a
hand in developing environmentally friendly fishing practices. Worth noting there
has been a lot of state specific back and forth
on laws around catch limits over the years, going as
(25:25):
far back as the early nineteen hundreds when it comes
to dungeness crab. Despite all of that, there have been
some ups and downs in dungeness crabs landings, and those
studying why believe it might have to do with the
conditions in the Pacific. For instance, landings were going up
(25:46):
from the nineteen thirties to the sixties before the industry
experienced a major crash that it didn't rebound from until
the nineteen eighties. Worth mentioning this could have to do
also with the number of crabbers and fleets and the
improved technology that put a decent dent in the dungeness
crab population that was later mitigated with catch regulations. In
(26:13):
two thousand and nine, the dungeness crab became Oregon's official
state crustacean oh I love that I love an official
state crustacean.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Oh yeah, as opposed to those unofficial state crustaceans. What
are they doing?
Speaker 1 (26:27):
What is that? Beginning in twenty fourteen, the industry saw
a sharp increase in whales getting tangled up in dungeness
crab fishing equipment. The situation reached a point that the
season closed early in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah, there's been a problem with humpbacking gray whales in
the States, and it's from what I understand, it's really
pretty rare that whales do get tangled up in these
nets because these are ground these are ground pots there.
They're put on the ocean floor, and they're not I mean,
they're maybe three or four feet across, you know, about
(27:06):
a meter, but they're not gigantic. The problem is is that,
like the whales, populations aren't doing great to begin with,
and so everyone of course wants to watch out for
any unnecessary damage or deaths to to these animals.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Absolutely, and that brings us to our I feel like
every episode we have something like this, uh huh. So,
warming ocean waters present dangers to the dungeness crab population
along the North American Pacific coast, and that's because the
warming waters allow for things like toxic algae blooms, increased
(27:46):
excidification and hypoxia, or low oxygen levels.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah, the acid and the oxygen levels can affect the
crabs themselves, you know, aquatic animals being very sensitive to
even small changes in those kinds of areas, whereas the
toxic algae blooms don't hurt them, but they'll eat the
algae and build up these compounds and their bodies that
(28:12):
are toxic. Two creatures like us, So if we eat
a crab that has been exposed to too much of this,
it can make us sick.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
And this has in part led to several delays in
the harvesting season of the Dungeness fisheries. During the twenty
fifteen to twenty sixteen season, a four month delay in
the season led to a significant loss of revenue and
the declaration of a federal disaster. Wow. Yeah, I mean
(28:45):
it was a big deal. A lot of people. That's
where their income. Oh yeah, that's their entire lives.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah, and in places where I mean, like I said
it is it is the most lucrative fishery in Washington State.
And I believe that if that's true for them. I
couldn't find the numbers to back it up, but I
strongly believe it's it's if not the most it's way
up there in other areas where this is a catch
And yeah, so if you if suddenly your population goes away,
(29:16):
then it's a very serious thing.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah. Absolutely, And this is another one of those episodes
where if listeners are encouraged, I recommend you can. You
can find a lot of information about this about the
sustainability of dungeness crab, and it's really interesting actually about
(29:40):
about how it has worked, but also how they're dealing
with climate change and things.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Like that, right and how right. It can be a
delicate population and you know, animals behave in ways that
we don't always understand and they move around and right,
and so it can be stuff that we're doing, and
it can be stuff that they're up to, and it's complicated.
It's really complicated. But there are there is a lot
(30:06):
of research being done. There are a lot of groups
that are working with a bunch of First Nations peoples
and groups like that who are just trying to work
together to figure out how to respect these animals and
respect the oceans that we're pulling them from and just
(30:29):
make sure that you know we're enjoying this nice thing
that we can enjoy, but doing it doing it in.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
A good way. Yes, absolutely, And as always, listeners, please
write in with recipes or experiences. Yes, been to any crabfest.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Oh my goodness, if you've been crabbing, yeah, I would
love to hear all about it.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Yes, please please let us know. But that is what
we have to say the Dungeness crab for now.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
It is. We do already have some listener mail for you, though,
and we're going to get into that as soon as
we get back from one more quick break for a
word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
And we're back. Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you. And
I went back with listener m h, don't mess with crabs.
That's what I always say.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Gosh, no, I wouldn't know.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Never. It's foolish too, It's foolish, Christine wrote. I was
peacefully munching on some slices of Provolone delce when the
Provolone episode popped up on my feed, which was Sarah Dipitus.
I think you will agree. At first, I was concerned
(32:03):
it might be Fauvolone, since I got it from Costco,
but no, it's proper a Riccio brand Provolone dulce. I
vastly prefermed the dulce to the pecante, which often has
an unpleasant smell to me. I think it's an autistic
thing because the smell doesn't always get to me. But
(32:23):
this cheese episode reminded me of something I meant to
pass on after the Yarlsberg episode. Yarlesberg is one of
my favorite cheeses, but I didn't think it was Norwegian.
I found the idea of them insisting Yarlesborg taste the
same regardless of which factory produces it fascinating, so I
decided to see where Australia gets It's Yarlsberg, Ireland, by
(32:46):
the way. But in my reading on the website, I
came across a fact I can't recall if you mentioned.
Yarlsberg cheese is lactoast free. During the processing. To get
the taste and texture right, the lactose is broken down
into its constituent glucose and galactose, which means that those
of us with dodgy digestive tracks can eat it without
(33:10):
having to scarf down the lacteese first our risk a
night you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. Oh no,
I don't remember that coming up in the reading at all.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I know that I read it, I can't remember whether
I said it out loud or not. It's a fact
that is true for a number of aged cheeses, and
exactly how true it is see above Rea. We're not doctors, like,
I'm never looking to give medical advice, and I would
never want someone to have that night that I wouldn't
(33:46):
wish on my worst enemy. So I tend to. But
but yeah, like a lot of the time, especially the
longer that a cheese is aged, the less likely it
is to contain any amount of lactose. Darmer if I
said it out loud. But but yeah, that Aricia brand
being being a really big one, and uh yeah, I'm
(34:08):
glad that y'all can get it in Australia. I need to.
I still haven't gone cheese shopping after that episode. I
still need to.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
What a shame. What a shame. But also I do
love when when y'all listeners write in about kind of
these coincidences of just.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
So often I'm like, all right, cool.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Maybe we are tapping into some kind of zeitgeist we
don't know about.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Maybe maybe, Taylor wrote, I've been to a couple of
A and W locations, one in Baker, California, and the
other in Trenton, Michigan. The Baker one was more of
a rest stop location, situated in a building with a subway,
pizza hut, and wingstop, so it didn't have much pizazz
to it. On the other hand, the Trenton one was fantastic.
(35:01):
It was its own small building where you could sit
outside and the waiters roller skate over to bring you
your meal. It was really neat. The root beer floats
were delicious. Of course, I don't even remember that much
about the food, but as a kid, I'm sure the
chicken tenders and French fries were solid. Unfortunately, that location
closed in recent years, and I'm just finding out that
it was the first Awn Michigan, and other people have
(35:24):
fond memories of it being the best one around. Also, Annie,
I know you said you don't like Doctor Pepper, but
as an avid Doctor Pepper fan, I want to assure
you that root beer is completely different. I'm no match
for Lauren's poetic descriptions, but if I had to describe
the difference. I'd say that Doctor Pepper is like the
(35:45):
feeling when you first get through the gates of an
amusement park and see all of the rides and you're
ready to hop on one. Root Beer is more like
the feeling of going on a hike and stumbling on
a waterfall, that feeling of gentle surprise and awe. I
loved the IPA's episode. I always forget the IPAs are
(36:08):
a paler beer with how bitter they are. I just
assume they're.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
A darker beer. Lol.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I'm not a beer person. I'm an avid coffee drinker,
so my brain makes the coffee connection. The darker it is,
the stronger and more bitter it can be. My husband
is a big fan of IPAs, and luckily for me,
he beats the stereotype of being snobby and annoying about it.
He just really doesn't enjoy sweet drinks at all and
prefers better flavors, so IPA's always hit the spot for him.
(36:37):
I'm a ciders and sours girl myself, but more than anything,
I prefer a cocktail or a glass of wine. On
a personal note, lately, I've been listening to the podcast
whenever I do laundry, and when a new episode comes out,
now I'm motivated to do some laundry. You're well, yeah, yeah,
(36:59):
that's how I qa all of our episodes, like while
I'm doing chores, so like kind of same. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Absolutely, this is fantastic. I love the because I remember
this too, being from a small town where there's like
one same chain, but there was one franchise that was
better than the other one, like.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Oh sure, yeah, yeah yeah, And anytime that you have
a car hop kind of situation involved, yeah, that is fabulous.
I am still enchanted by that as an adult. I
feel a little bit bad for the servers now, but
I'm like, look, there's a whimsy to this that is unconstrained.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
My friend and I once when we were in high school,
we walked through a sonic like drive drive through. Yeah,
but we walked through and put our order in on
foot and then stood in the parking and they came
up to us in skates and gave us our meal.
(38:09):
I don't know why we did it that way, because
you can't just order. You don't have to.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, there's a window that you can walk up to,
isn't there?
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Yes, Okay, but they brought it out.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Well.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
It was quite comical.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
That's amazing. I love this for you guys. I'm impressive
they did it. I feel like in my teenage Sanigan
Shenanigan's years, like we tried to walk through drive throughs
and like the McDonald's or whatever, We're like not having it.
They were like not today, man, They're like, look, man,
we're tired. We got a lot of fries to cook.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Leave us be. It was very embarrassing. It was a
very genuine mistake that we made. Know why we thought
what was going We had just come from six Flags,
so maybe we were a little little loop.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, I do love your description, yes, of root Beer
versus Doctor Pepper, and I.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Would say that those are very accurate. Yeah, I think
that's completely correct because that that that waterfall kind of
there's like there's like a coolness and like a sort
of like a like a herbal vibe of a forest
that you're getting, and Doctor Pepper has more this like
candy bright sort of pop to it.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
So yeah, well, and I like it sounds like root
Beer is sort of stumbling upon something you weren't expecting,
Like it wasn't what we thought it would be. It
goes a lot of places. It goes a lot of places.
Uh uh yeah, I pas got to watch out for
(40:00):
I pas.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
They can they can do it, they can do it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
I've shared a similar thought where I've assumed for a
long time, the darker the beer, the more alcohol.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Oh huh oh yeah, no, certainly, certainly not. You can
find a very pale beer that is rip rorn h.
I got so used to I PA's being so bitter
for a while that now I assume that pale beers
(40:34):
are going to be happy, which is not true. Like
my brain knows that, but for some reason, my face
thinks it. And furthermore, when I get a hold of
something that is bitter and it's darker, uh like a
black Eye PA, for example, I'm surprised even if I've
(40:55):
read the word. If I read read the words black
eye PA on a menu, ordered the beer and I
drink it, I'm like, oh, it's so bitter for a
dark beer.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Those things get solidified in your mind. It's hard to
shake them.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
It is it is, it is, it is.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Well. Thank you so much to both of these listeners
for writing in. If you would like to try to us,
you can our emails, Hello.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
At savorpod dot com. We're also on social media. You
can find us on Instagram and blue Sky at savor pod,
and we do hope to hear from you. Savor is
a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to
our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to
(41:53):
you for listening, and we hope that lots more good
things are coming your way
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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