October 3, 2025 • 38 mins
This treat associated with the Mid-Autumn Festival is the stuff of legends. Anney and Lauren dig into the history and many varieties of mooncakes.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to save your production of by Heart Radio.
I'm Annyrie and I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Lorn vogel Baum, and today we have an episode for
you about mooncakes.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, and I think this is one where again you
do have an answer for why we're recording it.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I do, so the answer to why were you thinking
about this is always either I have no idea or
it's a tenth pole of some kind. Yeah. So, as
we record this episode, we are approaching the mid Autumn
festival of Chinese traditions, happening this year on Monday, October sixth.
(00:44):
Happy Autumn Moon Festival. In advance to anyone celebrating or
currently or in the past. I don't know when you're
listening to this, but yeah, the festival follows the lunar calendar.
It's the fifteenth day of the eighth lunar month, which
happens right around a full moon in the middle of autumn.
It's a it's a like family and other loved ones
(01:07):
like reunion and harvest holiday, celebrating bounty, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yes, and the mooncake is a big part of that.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah. Oh yes, associated uh huh. Yeah. If you are
in a place where humans celebrate this festival. They probably
have mooncakes out in your local grocery store or local
specific grocery store.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Mm hmm, I've had I've had mooncakes this episode. Even
though I've had mooncakes, I didn't realize the variety. Think
I've really only had the sweet kind.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah, I've had a pretty narrow slice pun intended after
the fact of the own cake pie. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, me too. And I remember liking them, but I
don't I don't remember strongly what they tasted like. I
think it was a very subtle sweet taste. But reading this,
I'm like, what a world was right?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Oh, oh, it's fabulous.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I think the first time that I had one, you know,
I had moved to Atlanta and h Mart opened, and
I was like, what is this whole thing? And like
anything else in h Mart that I get curious enough about,
I was like, yeah, I'll buy one. Sure, let's go,
let's let's figure this out together. And yeah, very very
very rich, very sweet. I think I found either a
load of seed or a red bean paste one. Don't
(02:45):
remember at the time.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I think I had a honey. I think the last
one I had was honey based.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yes, you can see our previous episodisodes on sort of
related materials like like dim sum, chili, crisp, mochi, jello aspects,
meat pies.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Oh yeah, this episode goes places. I know we say
that a lot, but it really does.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Oh yeah, I had a number of tabs that would
give any absolute nightmares open on this one.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
No, I don't like a lot of tabs people, but
I do love fall and I love a full moon,
so I'm very excited to talk about this.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah. Fall Festival is so good.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I guess all of this brings us to our question though, Sure,
sure mooncakes what are they?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Well? Mooncakes can be a lot of things, but you're
you're basically looking at a filled pastry that's intricately decorated
and very rich in sweet and or savory flavors. They
can be baked using usually a wheat crust, or steamed
and or chilled and set using glutinous rice or otherwise
(04:17):
gelatinous sort of crust, crust and scare quotes. I guess
either kind can be created in molds that have like
beautiful fluted edges and words or designs on top. The
baked ones are sometimes made free form and might be
stamped or painted with words or designs. They are often
round in shape to mirror you know, the moon, but
(04:40):
that can vary. The crust is often very thin in
both the baked and the chilled versions, with like a
much thicker filling or layers of filling inside. The baked
crusts can be cakeier or flakeier, kind of your whole
range of pie crust. The chilled can be chewier or bouncier,
(05:03):
but the real variety is in those fillings. The traditional
ones include pretty sweet, very dense pastes made of things
like lotue seed, red bean, or mung bean, sometimes with
preserved salted duck egg yolk inside for like a little
burst of salty contrast. There are also versions with sweet
(05:24):
paste then studded with like a lot of chopped nuts
or seeds and or dried fruit like red dates or
winter melon or citrus peel, this time for a textural contrast.
But yeah, you can really go anywhere with these, and
people do, depending on what's local or trendy, all kinds
of flavors, from fruit to chocolate to ham, textures, from
(05:50):
flavored bean paste to like a custard to jellies. They're
often given or shared as gifts with friends and family,
cut into small wedges and served with tea, especially on
or around the mid autumn festival. And they're like really
gazing at the moon, you know, like like like at
(06:14):
first you're kind of going like, oh, yeah, that's pretty,
but then you notice the depth and the textures and
experience this rich sort of wonder.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah, that's lovely is what looking at the moon is like.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Right, Yeah, And I have.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
To say another piece of this, other than all of
the different flavors, I the beauty of them. Really. Oh
I was blown away.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, they are often striking. Yeah, look up look up
pictures if you're unfamiliar. But okay, so different regions have
different traditions and tastes around mooncakes, around China and basically
anywhere that Chinese peoples have immigrated. This episode is not
(07:09):
a comprehensive list. No, of course, if there is one
that you grew up with or are otherwise fond of,
we would love to hear about it in detail and
share it with your fellow listeners. But okay, the kind
of common one around the world is Cantonese style, or
derived from such. It's a baked crust type baked to
(07:31):
like a lovely golden brown in a decorative wooden mold.
But there are just ever expanding ways of creating these things,
and they can come in any size, from like individual
mini muffin to full on pie like nine inch pie. Okay.
The baked crust types can be very rich with lard,
(07:55):
usually whether they're on the doe or the flaky side.
They're often soft in texture the crusts, but they can
also be crisp and in that case either crumbly or flaky,
different types. Yeah, use the full range of pie and
pastry crusts for those traditional fillings that I ran through
(08:17):
at the top. Okay, Like, if you've never had lotus
seed paste or sweet bean paste, I described them. I've
described them before on the show. It's sort of like
peanut butter and jelly at the same time, like a
little savory, earthy, but quite sweet and stiff, like pasty,
not runny, but in a tender kind of way. You know. Yeah,
(08:43):
I love red bean paste anyway. Yes, if they include
nuts and seeds, those might be peanuts, almonds, walnuts, pumpkin seeds,
melon seeds, sesame seeds. The seeded types are often called
five nut or five kernel mooncakes. I am not sure
whether the five is a literal number of types of
(09:03):
nuts involved, or if that's just what they're called. The
five nut mooncakes are considered a little bit old fashioned, though,
write in let us know, but right, All kinds of
flavored fruit, pastes or other fillings can go in a
baked mooncake. Examples that I've read about just today include pineapple,
(09:25):
light chi pandan, durian matcha, egg, custard, marmalade, rose, petal,
yam of various kinds, yep, whatever you like. And there
are also savory types that are filled with things like
chopped pork, chicken, sausage, seafood, mushrooms, maybe some greens in there,
(09:46):
sort of like a dumpling filling, you know, sometimes sweetened
with honey. I have not had the chilled ones, from
what I understand, they're usually smaller, like individual sized, and okay,
ones made with glutenous rice are going to be you know,
glutenous ricey, sort of like mochi or tapioca, And because
(10:08):
of that, their dough is baseline like a snowy white,
slightly translucent color. They are often called snowy or icy
mooncakes or snow skin mooncakes for that reason, but they
can be dyed all sorts of bright colors, which is
where you get some of the really pretty things going
on in here. You make the dough by cooking glutenous
(10:29):
rice flour plus maybe other flowers and or starches with
water or milk and usually a little bit of sugar.
When it cools, the dough can be molded, and these
are more likely to have non traditional fillings. Examples of
fillings that I've read about again like today include mango, orange, strawberry, honeydew, peach, blueberry, cherry, taro, chestnut, milk, tea,
(10:53):
chocolate with cream, cheese.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Right, so interested in all of this?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Oh, I love it? And like the baked types, they
can also contain textural bits like maybe candy pieces, puffed rice,
little bits of fruit, a layer of jam. You can
find ice cream mooncakes with either glutinous rice or chocolate
coatings other variations I know, right. Other variations include jelly mooncakes,
(11:29):
which are made with like agar agar or other gelatin
type stuff that's molded and set in pretty designs, often
with all kinds of different like translucencies and colors and
different flavors or ingredients. Layered in, which is why I
recommended aspects here we are. But yeah, yeah, you can
make these at home or spend a little bit or
(11:51):
a lot on a gift box that's either handmade or
industrially made. Fancy hotels around Hong Kong and other posh
cities sell tens of thousands a year, especially as they
have become like a gift that you might give to
business associates who you want to impress, think ingredients like
like like jenoa ham or truffles, or you know, like
(12:14):
gold plated or silk packaging, stuff like that. In some
cultures though they are in more everyday like year round
treat sort of thing. But I have also seen them
compared to fruitcakes in that they are, you know, a
traditional holiday gift, but one that not everyone actually enjoys
(12:36):
and might wind up throwing away.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
I saw that too, and it made me laugh. It
gave me a good chuckle, just because there was such
a dichotomy of the nostalgia the love for it. These
really fancy, expensive ones that come in very lovely packaging.
Oh yeah, and then also they're like fruitcakes and people
(13:01):
throw them away.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I think that's part of why these these newer chilled
varieties have gained such popularity so quickly because yeah, they're
they're like, oh not another lotus seed paste thing with
a bunch of art in the crest. Huh, delightfully new,
nothing against again. I'm pretty sure that's the kind that
I had, and it was lovely. I was happy to
(13:25):
be consuming it.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
But yeah, I think I read an article from someone
who was She was saying, I don't like them, but
I must have them. That's the tradition, and I'm sad
if I don't have them.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Oh man, oh, I think there's a lot of holiday
foods like that. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Back again, listeners, if you, I would love to hear
from you, because I'm curious about do you choose the
filling based on the person you're giving it to? Like?
What what kind of thought goes into all of this?
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, yes, Well let us know what about the nutrition?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Oh, that depends, can't tell you.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
That's that's between you and the mooncake.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yep. Uh huh, that's between you and your autumn festival.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yep, all right, got it. Well, we do have some
numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
We do, okay, gosh, we do. I have read estimates
that put the global market from mooncakes at around two
point four billion dollars a year. Yep, it's a lot.
It's a lot. Snowy mooncakes might make up about half
(14:44):
of that, which is wild because again, like they're a
relatively new thing. The top four manufacturers control about ten
percent of the market, but there are over fifteen thousand
manufacturers around the world, over eight thousand of which are
in mainland China, China and Vietnam by the most mooncakes. Also,
(15:07):
some eighty percent of sales happen in the three months
leading up to the mid autumn festival. I further read
that about sixty five percent of the industrial market is
for those Cantonese style mooncakes. There are a few Guinness
(15:27):
records regarding mooncakes. The current record for largest mooncake was
set in twenty thirteen in Shanghai by a team up
of the chefs from two hotels, the Parkside Plaza and
the Shanghai Marriott. The mooncake in question weighed two four
hundred and ninety six point four kilos that's five five
(15:50):
hundred and two point seven pounds. It was two point
six meters across, which is about eight point four feet.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
I'm scared.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
You look, you look frightened.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I'm a little afraid. I'm kind of shaken. Sounds like
a pastry that could kill me if it wanted to,
if it was sentient. Oh grudge, Yeah, that would be
the end.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah, you'd watch out for that one. It was debuted
at the Mid Autumn Festival that year and was made
up of five hundred kilos of flour, three hundred kilos
of sugar, four thousand egg yolks, and two thousand, three
hundred kilos of lotus seed paste.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
M Well, that's that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah, yeah, rather large. Yeah, if it's coming for you,
look out. Also.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
The largest word or phrase made out of mooncakes was
achieved in twenty twenty four by a restaurant in Guangdong.
It consisted of one eight hundred and eighty mooncakes that
formed the words mooncake master.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Honestly, that makes me a little nervous too.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
And both of these are intimidating records.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
They are. They're impressive, but intimidating. I feel like I
could see a character a sentient mooncake that when the
moon comes out, who knows what it will do?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, all right, all right, blending our October vibes. I
like it.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
I like it, of course, of course. Well, we do
have an interesting the mess of a history to go
through here.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yeah, uh yeah, we're gonna we're gonna have to do
separate episodes about like all of these key ingredients and
some of the regional varieties because there's a certain point
at which you have to stop. But but for the
things that we are going to cover, we're going to
get into all of that history as soon as we
(18:22):
get back from a quick break for a word from
our sponsors, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay. So, the mid
Autumn festival dates back over three thousand years in China,
and it was a way to celebrate full harvest and
ask the gods for more prosperity in various ways. It
was a time of giving offerings, coming together to share
food and good times. Early records indicate that there were
(18:58):
moon cake esque on pastries in China going back to
the six hundred to nine hundred CE. They were not
necessarily related to any festival though. So this is where
we come to kind of the massy part of the history,
because people have a lot of stories and legends about it.
(19:18):
A lot of them are contradicting, and i'd like a
good chronological timeline. Sometimes I can't get that timeline.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, no, this is not one of those.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
No, it's absolutely not. So bear with me. We're gonna
go into a lot of interesting and fun places, but
they're kind of all over the place. Yes, yes, all right. So,
according to legend, in the fourteenth century, when the Mongols
ranged in China, Chinese rebels used mooncakes to pass along
(19:51):
secret messages to help their cause, including dates and details
of uprisings. Some stories get even more specific into the
exact dates and details. A rebel leader and his aid
came up with the idea when the Autumn festival was approaching.
That leader, Ju yuan Jong, went on to become emperor
(20:13):
of the newly established Ming dynasty. Most historians say that
mooncakes had nothing to do with the uprising, but that
is how the telling is told so often that this
is sort.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Of like the idea a lot of people have, yeah, yeah,
of where they come from.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Some researchers looking into this strongly suspect that this legend
was created by Chinese nationalist in the twentieth century. There
are other similar versions of this story that recount emperors
giving moon cakes to other officials after a victory or
as a reward, some going back to the six hundred's ce.
(20:52):
I couldn't confirm this, but a lot of sources report
that the Taisha cake is the ancestor of mooncakes, and
this was a cake that is three thousand years old,
created in memory of a prime minister at the time,
and sometime in the six hundreds to eight hundred CE period,
the then prime minister really didn't like that this cake
was named after this other prime minister and wanted to
(21:15):
rename them, And while looking at his consort who was
staring at the moon, he got the idea for moon cake.
Whatever the case, at the height of anti government protests
in Hong Kong and twenty nineteen, rebellious messages on moon
cakes returned. Or maybe we're for the first time with
(21:38):
messages like keep on fighting. Some mainland Chinese folks boycotted
bakeries that did so. So that's how like embedded this
story is of passing these messages. Yeah, yeah, being kind
of a rebellious thing.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Another legend starts far earlier than all of this, somewhere
between the six hundred and nine hundred CE, similar to
the Emperor one I guess, But as the legend goes,
this was a time of extreme heat that led to
crops withering and death. So the imperial court summoned up
a master archer named Ho Yee to use his skills
(22:13):
to shoot down nine of the ten suns that were
circling the planet. He did so, and the moon gods
rewarded him with two elixirs that would grant him everlasting life.
The whole thing.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Made him power hungry, though, and he.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Grew more and more volatile and tyrannical. His wife, chang E,
sought to stop him before he became too powerful, and
drank both of the elixirs. As a reward, the gods
floated her up to the moon, or, in some readings,
as a punishment, they floated her up to the moon
ah Yes. Another version of this claims that she drank
(22:49):
the second elixir to keep it from her husband's greedy apprentice,
and that her husband prepared a feast every year on
the day when the moon was the most full, desiring
to see his wife. Yet another version claims that there
was only enough elixir for one and that the archer
gave it to his wife or she stole it. Yes,
(23:12):
I love how it's so like she's either really a
really good a bastion of goodness, or she's being punished. Yeah,
this is a terrible thing that she's done. And also
the same with the archer and some versions he's the
bad guy. In some versions he's the good guy. China's
spacecraft Shanga one, two, three, and four were named after her,
(23:36):
So that's also there's so many different versions of that legend,
and I recommend reading them because there I like reading legends.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Like this, yeah, and just sort of comparing and contrasting
because right, there's a lot of different details that work
their way in based on who's doing.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
The telling exactly, and like opposites so often. But that
is a big story behind the mooncake. It was during
the Ming dynasty though, that text first related mooncakes to
the mid autumn festival.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yeah, and that's like the thirteen to sixteen hundreds, and
this is when mooncakes really started gaining popularity.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Provinces all over China started making mooncakes their own, matching
their taste and ingredients, eventually leading to a wealth of
different kinds of mooncakes. The shape generally remained the same,
and eventually two mooncakes spread to other Asian countries, where
they were also adapted. In the nineteen sixties, Hong Kong
(24:37):
started really pushing exports of what was dubbed the Cantonese
style mooncake. These were typically filled with red bean paste
or lotus seed paste.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I had trouble tracking down the history of snowy mooncakes,
but folks seemed to agree that they started in Hong
Kong sometime in the nineteen sixties through the nineteen eighties.
One particular Hong Kong bakery chain called Taipan claims to
be the first to offer them in nineteen eighty nine.
(25:08):
Taypon actually just shut down earlier this year amid financial troubles,
which has been called the end of an era. But however,
they came about because snowy mooncakes are a lot lighter
than those traditional baked moon cakes, and because they're seen
as like less old fashioned and or more fun. They
did catch on pretty quick.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yes, and then in twenty thirteen the Chinese government reprimanded
official expenditures of giving mooncakes.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah, to reiterate, high end moon cakes can be very expensive.
You boxed up very artistically, and so The argument here
wasn't like, hey, don't give moon cakes. It was like, hey,
don't give bribes with public money. And apparently this had
been big enough of a problem that this new rule
(26:00):
like put a dent in the industry for a couple
of years.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
At any rate. In twenty eighteen, we got a mooncake emoji.
It displays in a few different styles of Cantonese mooncake.
Some have a slice taken out, some have a little
duck egg in there. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
And as of late, yeah, there are all kinds of
promotional tie ins and gimmicks with mooncakes, especially around luxurious mooncakes.
This is another thing I recommend looking up if you
would like. Oh, there have been low or non fat offerings.
Some of all of this is controversial. It's caused a
(26:42):
lot of conversation about what a mooncake is?
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah, yeah, what right? What does it mean to you?
What should it mean? Can it mean different things to
different people? Are times changing too quickly? Is it in
fact the kids who are wrong? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, yeah, something we've run into in a lot. It's
not only mooncakes, but certainly there are people who do
not like the luxurious one. Specifically, I think that that's
not what it's about.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know, right right. Like also, like
like typical things that you run into with any kind
of food item, you know, low sugar mooncakes have been
a thing or like lower sugar or things with with
with trendy ingredients. There's been like a burst of sustainable
packaging for them. Yeah, stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Yeah, because the packaging is a at least in some cases,
it's a pretty big deal how it looks, and it
can also be very very pretty.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
So oh yeah, yeah, I think I didn't. I didn't
confirm it with like a second source, but but I
read that. I read that there's a law in some
places where the cost of the packaging can only be
twenty percent of the cost of the total gift set. Yeah,
(28:14):
unconfirmed number, but yeah, like people are really thinking about
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
I ran into something like that too, where they were
with the kind of really expensive ones. They were talking
about how much of that is going to the packaging
versus the moon cake. So this is, as we said,
there's so many other avenues we could go down. Oh yeah,
(28:45):
this is pretty much what we have for you today.
But if listeners, we would love to hear from you.
If you have experience or things that you would really
like us to cover that would be basing.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, please please do right in. But that
is what we have to say about Mooncake for now,
and we do already have some listener mail for you,
and we will get into that as soon as we
get back from a quick break for a word from
our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
We're back, Thank you, sponsors, Yes, thank you, and we're
back with listener singing to the moon.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Oh yeah, yeah, I do like a fool. Oh they're
pretty mm hmmmmm.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Okay. I love how many people have written in about soccer.
Tort Dan wrote appropriately, just got caught up on my
flight to Vienna the other day, had no idea about
soccer sort, So here I am at Cafe Soccer. Thanks
for the tip. I must say it is pretty decent.
Not a huge dessert person, especially chocolate and fruit or
(30:06):
not my thing, but it's not as sweet as I
was expecting, and the texture is fantastic. Slightly dense but
not dry. Picks attached for attention. About a forty minute
wait to get in, but definitely worth a stop if
you're in the neighborhood. Oh cool, that is cool. I
always love when we hear from listeners who heard an
(30:29):
episode of ours and go to investigate or go to
try it.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
That's and also when it's just on time, when it's like, oh,
I happened to be flying to Vienna, so thank you. Yeah. Yeah,
I promise we're not psychic, or if we are, we
don't know about it.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
So that's true.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
And if we didn't know about it, we would almost
certainly use our powers for good.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
I yes, I think, I think so. I yeah, thanks
for letting us know. Yeah, I've appreciated hearing from people
who have visited one of the two purported homes of
soccer chorts, and I'm glad to hear that it stood
(31:12):
up at least I would say it stood up, like
maybe you wouldn't go again, but it's a share.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
A pleasant experience.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Eric wrote the Wonderful World of Tea, all the different
flavors you can go with. I think selecting Earl Gray
to start with is a good choice. The flavor on
it is nice. I also love all the varieties of
grays that are out there. One of our favorites is
from Fortenham and Mason Victoria. Gray has a touch of
lavender and other flavors to it. Could go on about
all the different varieties, but I think you did a
(31:45):
good job covering some of the common ones. The London
fog is also a wonderful way to enjoy, and an
iced one can really hit the spot on a hot day.
Himan Aberko is tasty. I've had a taste of the
white label on a charcuterie board and did enjoy it.
It is something to try, but is definitely one of
those treat type things. It had a richness that was enjoyable,
(32:06):
but that richness is one that I think needs to
be in small amounts or it becomes way too much.
There are a lot of foods like that, absolutely wonderful,
but pricey and best done in small bites. I can't
remember the last time I had a fresh apricot, but
I do love dried ones straight up snack in a salad,
and we had a fruitcake once that had apricots in
(32:26):
it that was lovely. Always interesting to hear the story
behind something you generally just pick up and snack on.
And now I want to coogle. It has been years.
All the way back to college, my fraternity was predominantly Jewish,
and some of them lived real close to campus with
their family, so it was not uncommon to occasionally go
there for dinner. I remember having at least one at
(32:47):
a meal. The whole raisin thing is definitely interesting. It
seems like people either love raisins or want nothing to
do with them. I like raisins, but I also think
they need to be used properly in some dishes. They
work when used, but it can also be a matter
of when they get added. Sounds like maybe a raisin
show in the future. Oh yeah, oh yeah, that is
(33:10):
on our list. We may or may not have to
do a whole side episode about the California raisins.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Yes, which, if you don't know about the California raisins,
you were in for a horrifying treat. They scared me anyway,
but I absolutely startled.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
So yeah, I just kind of have a thing with clamation.
It sort of has always spooped me out. But yeah,
uh well now the season yeah, oh my goodness, Yeah, yeah,
all of this. I the different varieties of Earl Gray, right,
I feel like I need to I just usually go
(33:51):
with just Earl Gray, and I need to branch out
a little.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
I mean, it's true, what you say. There is the
world of its huge, so many flavors. Before I realized
my poor tea affliction, I used to go it was Tbana,
not a sposor, but I would go there and they
had all the samples and it would just be so
many samples and I didn't understand how how would I
(34:20):
ever find the tea tea? Yeah, when there's this whole world.
I did really like. There was a white jasmine one
I really loved.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Yeah, but yeah, there's a lot of Earl Grays we
only touched on, and that one we only touched on,
Lady Gray as the alternate, but I think I had
a list of at least ten.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
That are pretty popular, like Russian Rearl Gray, French All Gray.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Yeah, well, they kind of the trouble with some of
those definitions is that are some of those terms is
that they're real wibbly wobbly, like they don't they're they're
pretty proprietary from brand to brand about what they're actually
talking about. And so yeah, that's why I didn't really
go into like defined terms because I was like, eh,
some people put lavender in there. Tasty.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, we run into that kind of thing.
A lot. I also think Harmona Barrico, I agree. I
think it's delicious, but I yeah, I'm sure I could
eat a lot, but it's so expensive and it is
pretty rich, yeah, having like cheese with it, so it's
(35:33):
I don't I can't do too much.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Yeah, I wouldn't. I mean, like, it's kind of good
that it's outrageously expensive, because right, like you don't really
want to just a little as nice move on to
something else, which is the whole great thing about meat
and cheese plates, right, get to snack on all the
little different stuff.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
I did. I had my meat and cheese night, which
I can't remember if I mentioned. I mentioned it was
coming up in some recent episode, and it was pretty spectacular,
and I have to say it was devoured. Usually I
like have cheese left for a long time. That's not
gonna be the case this time. So I'm very happy
(36:17):
with that outcome.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Wonderful. Yeah, I know, I know that leftovers drive you
a little ban.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
So I don't like leftovers and I cheese. Don't get
me wrong. I've had many a cheese leftover from a
cheese plate. But eventually you're kind of like, I need
a vegetable other than cheese, something else than just cheese,
because badly doesn't really go with cheese like a cheese plate.
(36:44):
Cheese anyway, So I do have I have some breath left,
but it will it will go well in hand.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Oh good, good, I'm glad. I wouldn't want you to
have cheese stress.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
No, no, no, that's not what we need right now.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Oh and yeah I need I need some cookle too.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Yes, I must try it. I've decided the noodle one
is that, the savory noodle one is the one one
for you, but the potato one is a close second.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
The potato one is really good.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
I think I'd be very happy with either.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, it's a starch cast role.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Yeah delicious. Yeah, yes, we'll see if we can rectify
these things. And definitely raisins. I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Oh yeah, it's gonna be a lot, but it's gonna
be great.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah. We love strong opinions, as you know. Oh well.
In the meantime, thanks to both of these listeners for
writing in. If you would like to write to us,
you can or email us hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
We're also on social media. You can find us on
Instagram and Blue Sky at Saber Pod and we do
hope to hear from you. Savre is production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
(38:18):
that lots more good things are coming your way
Hello, and welcome to save your production of by Heart Radio.
I'm Annyrie and I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Lorn vogel Baum, and today we have an episode for
you about mooncakes.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, and I think this is one where again you
do have an answer for why we're recording it.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I do, so the answer to why were you thinking
about this is always either I have no idea or
it's a tenth pole of some kind. Yeah. So, as
we record this episode, we are approaching the mid Autumn
festival of Chinese traditions, happening this year on Monday, October sixth.
(00:44):
Happy Autumn Moon Festival. In advance to anyone celebrating or
currently or in the past. I don't know when you're
listening to this, but yeah, the festival follows the lunar calendar.
It's the fifteenth day of the eighth lunar month, which
happens right around a full moon in the middle of autumn.
It's a it's a like family and other loved ones
(01:07):
like reunion and harvest holiday, celebrating bounty, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yes, and the mooncake is a big part of that.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah. Oh yes, associated uh huh. Yeah. If you are
in a place where humans celebrate this festival. They probably
have mooncakes out in your local grocery store or local
specific grocery store.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Mm hmm, I've had I've had mooncakes this episode. Even
though I've had mooncakes, I didn't realize the variety. Think
I've really only had the sweet kind.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah, I've had a pretty narrow slice pun intended after
the fact of the own cake pie. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, me too. And I remember liking them, but I
don't I don't remember strongly what they tasted like. I
think it was a very subtle sweet taste. But reading this,
I'm like, what a world was right?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Oh, oh, it's fabulous.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I think the first time that I had one, you know,
I had moved to Atlanta and h Mart opened, and
I was like, what is this whole thing? And like
anything else in h Mart that I get curious enough about,
I was like, yeah, I'll buy one. Sure, let's go,
let's let's figure this out together. And yeah, very very
very rich, very sweet. I think I found either a
load of seed or a red bean paste one. Don't
(02:45):
remember at the time.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I think I had a honey. I think the last
one I had was honey based.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yes, you can see our previous episodisodes on sort of
related materials like like dim sum, chili, crisp, mochi, jello aspects,
meat pies.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Oh yeah, this episode goes places. I know we say
that a lot, but it really does.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Oh yeah, I had a number of tabs that would
give any absolute nightmares open on this one.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
No, I don't like a lot of tabs people, but
I do love fall and I love a full moon,
so I'm very excited to talk about this.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah. Fall Festival is so good.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I guess all of this brings us to our question though, Sure,
sure mooncakes what are they?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Well? Mooncakes can be a lot of things, but you're
you're basically looking at a filled pastry that's intricately decorated
and very rich in sweet and or savory flavors. They
can be baked using usually a wheat crust, or steamed
and or chilled and set using glutinous rice or otherwise
(04:17):
gelatinous sort of crust, crust and scare quotes. I guess
either kind can be created in molds that have like
beautiful fluted edges and words or designs on top. The
baked ones are sometimes made free form and might be
stamped or painted with words or designs. They are often
round in shape to mirror you know, the moon, but
(04:40):
that can vary. The crust is often very thin in
both the baked and the chilled versions, with like a
much thicker filling or layers of filling inside. The baked
crusts can be cakeier or flakeier, kind of your whole
range of pie crust. The chilled can be chewier or bouncier,
(05:03):
but the real variety is in those fillings. The traditional
ones include pretty sweet, very dense pastes made of things
like lotue seed, red bean, or mung bean, sometimes with
preserved salted duck egg yolk inside for like a little
burst of salty contrast. There are also versions with sweet
(05:24):
paste then studded with like a lot of chopped nuts
or seeds and or dried fruit like red dates or
winter melon or citrus peel, this time for a textural contrast.
But yeah, you can really go anywhere with these, and
people do, depending on what's local or trendy, all kinds
of flavors, from fruit to chocolate to ham, textures, from
(05:50):
flavored bean paste to like a custard to jellies. They're
often given or shared as gifts with friends and family,
cut into small wedges and served with tea, especially on
or around the mid autumn festival. And they're like really
gazing at the moon, you know, like like like at
(06:14):
first you're kind of going like, oh, yeah, that's pretty,
but then you notice the depth and the textures and
experience this rich sort of wonder.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah, that's lovely is what looking at the moon is like.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Right, Yeah, And I have.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
To say another piece of this, other than all of
the different flavors, I the beauty of them. Really. Oh
I was blown away.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, they are often striking. Yeah, look up look up
pictures if you're unfamiliar. But okay, so different regions have
different traditions and tastes around mooncakes, around China and basically
anywhere that Chinese peoples have immigrated. This episode is not
(07:09):
a comprehensive list. No, of course, if there is one
that you grew up with or are otherwise fond of,
we would love to hear about it in detail and
share it with your fellow listeners. But okay, the kind
of common one around the world is Cantonese style, or
derived from such. It's a baked crust type baked to
(07:31):
like a lovely golden brown in a decorative wooden mold.
But there are just ever expanding ways of creating these things,
and they can come in any size, from like individual
mini muffin to full on pie like nine inch pie. Okay.
The baked crust types can be very rich with lard,
(07:55):
usually whether they're on the doe or the flaky side.
They're often soft in texture the crusts, but they can
also be crisp and in that case either crumbly or flaky,
different types. Yeah, use the full range of pie and
pastry crusts for those traditional fillings that I ran through
(08:17):
at the top. Okay, Like, if you've never had lotus
seed paste or sweet bean paste, I described them. I've
described them before on the show. It's sort of like
peanut butter and jelly at the same time, like a
little savory, earthy, but quite sweet and stiff, like pasty,
not runny, but in a tender kind of way. You know. Yeah,
(08:43):
I love red bean paste anyway. Yes, if they include
nuts and seeds, those might be peanuts, almonds, walnuts, pumpkin seeds,
melon seeds, sesame seeds. The seeded types are often called
five nut or five kernel mooncakes. I am not sure
whether the five is a literal number of types of
(09:03):
nuts involved, or if that's just what they're called. The
five nut mooncakes are considered a little bit old fashioned, though,
write in let us know, but right, All kinds of
flavored fruit, pastes or other fillings can go in a
baked mooncake. Examples that I've read about just today include pineapple,
(09:25):
light chi pandan, durian matcha, egg, custard, marmalade, rose, petal,
yam of various kinds, yep, whatever you like. And there
are also savory types that are filled with things like
chopped pork, chicken, sausage, seafood, mushrooms, maybe some greens in there,
(09:46):
sort of like a dumpling filling, you know, sometimes sweetened
with honey. I have not had the chilled ones, from
what I understand, they're usually smaller, like individual sized, and okay,
ones made with glutenous rice are going to be you know,
glutenous ricey, sort of like mochi or tapioca, And because
(10:08):
of that, their dough is baseline like a snowy white,
slightly translucent color. They are often called snowy or icy
mooncakes or snow skin mooncakes for that reason, but they
can be dyed all sorts of bright colors, which is
where you get some of the really pretty things going
on in here. You make the dough by cooking glutenous
(10:29):
rice flour plus maybe other flowers and or starches with
water or milk and usually a little bit of sugar.
When it cools, the dough can be molded, and these
are more likely to have non traditional fillings. Examples of
fillings that I've read about again like today include mango, orange, strawberry, honeydew, peach, blueberry, cherry, taro, chestnut, milk, tea,
(10:53):
chocolate with cream, cheese.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Right, so interested in all of this?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Oh, I love it? And like the baked types, they
can also contain textural bits like maybe candy pieces, puffed rice,
little bits of fruit, a layer of jam. You can
find ice cream mooncakes with either glutinous rice or chocolate
coatings other variations I know, right. Other variations include jelly mooncakes,
(11:29):
which are made with like agar agar or other gelatin
type stuff that's molded and set in pretty designs, often
with all kinds of different like translucencies and colors and
different flavors or ingredients. Layered in, which is why I
recommended aspects here we are. But yeah, yeah, you can
make these at home or spend a little bit or
(11:51):
a lot on a gift box that's either handmade or
industrially made. Fancy hotels around Hong Kong and other posh
cities sell tens of thousands a year, especially as they
have become like a gift that you might give to
business associates who you want to impress, think ingredients like
like like jenoa ham or truffles, or you know, like
(12:14):
gold plated or silk packaging, stuff like that. In some
cultures though they are in more everyday like year round
treat sort of thing. But I have also seen them
compared to fruitcakes in that they are, you know, a
traditional holiday gift, but one that not everyone actually enjoys
(12:36):
and might wind up throwing away.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
I saw that too, and it made me laugh. It
gave me a good chuckle, just because there was such
a dichotomy of the nostalgia the love for it. These
really fancy, expensive ones that come in very lovely packaging.
Oh yeah, and then also they're like fruitcakes and people
(13:01):
throw them away.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I think that's part of why these these newer chilled
varieties have gained such popularity so quickly because yeah, they're
they're like, oh not another lotus seed paste thing with
a bunch of art in the crest. Huh, delightfully new,
nothing against again. I'm pretty sure that's the kind that
I had, and it was lovely. I was happy to
(13:25):
be consuming it.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
But yeah, I think I read an article from someone
who was She was saying, I don't like them, but
I must have them. That's the tradition, and I'm sad
if I don't have them.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Oh man, oh, I think there's a lot of holiday
foods like that. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Back again, listeners, if you, I would love to hear
from you, because I'm curious about do you choose the
filling based on the person you're giving it to? Like?
What what kind of thought goes into all of this?
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, yes, Well let us know what about the nutrition?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Oh, that depends, can't tell you.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
That's that's between you and the mooncake.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yep. Uh huh, that's between you and your autumn festival.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yep, all right, got it. Well, we do have some
numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
We do, okay, gosh, we do. I have read estimates
that put the global market from mooncakes at around two
point four billion dollars a year. Yep, it's a lot.
It's a lot. Snowy mooncakes might make up about half
(14:44):
of that, which is wild because again, like they're a
relatively new thing. The top four manufacturers control about ten
percent of the market, but there are over fifteen thousand
manufacturers around the world, over eight thousand of which are
in mainland China, China and Vietnam by the most mooncakes. Also,
(15:07):
some eighty percent of sales happen in the three months
leading up to the mid autumn festival. I further read
that about sixty five percent of the industrial market is
for those Cantonese style mooncakes. There are a few Guinness
(15:27):
records regarding mooncakes. The current record for largest mooncake was
set in twenty thirteen in Shanghai by a team up
of the chefs from two hotels, the Parkside Plaza and
the Shanghai Marriott. The mooncake in question weighed two four
hundred and ninety six point four kilos that's five five
(15:50):
hundred and two point seven pounds. It was two point
six meters across, which is about eight point four feet.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
I'm scared.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
You look, you look frightened.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I'm a little afraid. I'm kind of shaken. Sounds like
a pastry that could kill me if it wanted to,
if it was sentient. Oh grudge, Yeah, that would be
the end.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah, you'd watch out for that one. It was debuted
at the Mid Autumn Festival that year and was made
up of five hundred kilos of flour, three hundred kilos
of sugar, four thousand egg yolks, and two thousand, three
hundred kilos of lotus seed paste.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
M Well, that's that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah, yeah, rather large. Yeah, if it's coming for you,
look out. Also.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
The largest word or phrase made out of mooncakes was
achieved in twenty twenty four by a restaurant in Guangdong.
It consisted of one eight hundred and eighty mooncakes that
formed the words mooncake master.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Honestly, that makes me a little nervous too.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
And both of these are intimidating records.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
They are. They're impressive, but intimidating. I feel like I
could see a character a sentient mooncake that when the
moon comes out, who knows what it will do?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, all right, all right, blending our October vibes. I
like it.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
I like it, of course, of course. Well, we do
have an interesting the mess of a history to go
through here.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yeah, uh yeah, we're gonna we're gonna have to do
separate episodes about like all of these key ingredients and
some of the regional varieties because there's a certain point
at which you have to stop. But but for the
things that we are going to cover, we're going to
get into all of that history as soon as we
(18:22):
get back from a quick break for a word from
our sponsors, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay. So, the mid
Autumn festival dates back over three thousand years in China,
and it was a way to celebrate full harvest and
ask the gods for more prosperity in various ways. It
was a time of giving offerings, coming together to share
food and good times. Early records indicate that there were
(18:58):
moon cake esque on pastries in China going back to
the six hundred to nine hundred CE. They were not
necessarily related to any festival though. So this is where
we come to kind of the massy part of the history,
because people have a lot of stories and legends about it.
(19:18):
A lot of them are contradicting, and i'd like a
good chronological timeline. Sometimes I can't get that timeline.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, no, this is not one of those.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
No, it's absolutely not. So bear with me. We're gonna
go into a lot of interesting and fun places, but
they're kind of all over the place. Yes, yes, all right. So,
according to legend, in the fourteenth century, when the Mongols
ranged in China, Chinese rebels used mooncakes to pass along
(19:51):
secret messages to help their cause, including dates and details
of uprisings. Some stories get even more specific into the
exact dates and details. A rebel leader and his aid
came up with the idea when the Autumn festival was approaching.
That leader, Ju yuan Jong, went on to become emperor
(20:13):
of the newly established Ming dynasty. Most historians say that
mooncakes had nothing to do with the uprising, but that
is how the telling is told so often that this
is sort.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Of like the idea a lot of people have, yeah, yeah,
of where they come from.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Some researchers looking into this strongly suspect that this legend
was created by Chinese nationalist in the twentieth century. There
are other similar versions of this story that recount emperors
giving moon cakes to other officials after a victory or
as a reward, some going back to the six hundred's ce.
(20:52):
I couldn't confirm this, but a lot of sources report
that the Taisha cake is the ancestor of mooncakes, and
this was a cake that is three thousand years old,
created in memory of a prime minister at the time,
and sometime in the six hundreds to eight hundred CE period,
the then prime minister really didn't like that this cake
was named after this other prime minister and wanted to
(21:15):
rename them, And while looking at his consort who was
staring at the moon, he got the idea for moon cake.
Whatever the case, at the height of anti government protests
in Hong Kong and twenty nineteen, rebellious messages on moon
cakes returned. Or maybe we're for the first time with
(21:38):
messages like keep on fighting. Some mainland Chinese folks boycotted
bakeries that did so. So that's how like embedded this
story is of passing these messages. Yeah, yeah, being kind
of a rebellious thing.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Another legend starts far earlier than all of this, somewhere
between the six hundred and nine hundred CE, similar to
the Emperor one I guess, But as the legend goes,
this was a time of extreme heat that led to
crops withering and death. So the imperial court summoned up
a master archer named Ho Yee to use his skills
(22:13):
to shoot down nine of the ten suns that were
circling the planet. He did so, and the moon gods
rewarded him with two elixirs that would grant him everlasting life.
The whole thing.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Made him power hungry, though, and he.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Grew more and more volatile and tyrannical. His wife, chang E,
sought to stop him before he became too powerful, and
drank both of the elixirs. As a reward, the gods
floated her up to the moon, or, in some readings,
as a punishment, they floated her up to the moon
ah Yes. Another version of this claims that she drank
(22:49):
the second elixir to keep it from her husband's greedy apprentice,
and that her husband prepared a feast every year on
the day when the moon was the most full, desiring
to see his wife. Yet another version claims that there
was only enough elixir for one and that the archer
gave it to his wife or she stole it. Yes,
(23:12):
I love how it's so like she's either really a
really good a bastion of goodness, or she's being punished. Yeah,
this is a terrible thing that she's done. And also
the same with the archer and some versions he's the
bad guy. In some versions he's the good guy. China's
spacecraft Shanga one, two, three, and four were named after her,
(23:36):
So that's also there's so many different versions of that legend,
and I recommend reading them because there I like reading legends.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Like this, yeah, and just sort of comparing and contrasting
because right, there's a lot of different details that work
their way in based on who's doing.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
The telling exactly, and like opposites so often. But that
is a big story behind the mooncake. It was during
the Ming dynasty though, that text first related mooncakes to
the mid autumn festival.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yeah, and that's like the thirteen to sixteen hundreds, and
this is when mooncakes really started gaining popularity.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Provinces all over China started making mooncakes their own, matching
their taste and ingredients, eventually leading to a wealth of
different kinds of mooncakes. The shape generally remained the same,
and eventually two mooncakes spread to other Asian countries, where
they were also adapted. In the nineteen sixties, Hong Kong
(24:37):
started really pushing exports of what was dubbed the Cantonese
style mooncake. These were typically filled with red bean paste
or lotus seed paste.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I had trouble tracking down the history of snowy mooncakes,
but folks seemed to agree that they started in Hong
Kong sometime in the nineteen sixties through the nineteen eighties.
One particular Hong Kong bakery chain called Taipan claims to
be the first to offer them in nineteen eighty nine.
(25:08):
Taypon actually just shut down earlier this year amid financial troubles,
which has been called the end of an era. But however,
they came about because snowy mooncakes are a lot lighter
than those traditional baked moon cakes, and because they're seen
as like less old fashioned and or more fun. They
did catch on pretty quick.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yes, and then in twenty thirteen the Chinese government reprimanded
official expenditures of giving mooncakes.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah, to reiterate, high end moon cakes can be very expensive.
You boxed up very artistically, and so The argument here
wasn't like, hey, don't give moon cakes. It was like, hey,
don't give bribes with public money. And apparently this had
been big enough of a problem that this new rule
(26:00):
like put a dent in the industry for a couple
of years.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
At any rate. In twenty eighteen, we got a mooncake emoji.
It displays in a few different styles of Cantonese mooncake.
Some have a slice taken out, some have a little
duck egg in there. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
And as of late, yeah, there are all kinds of
promotional tie ins and gimmicks with mooncakes, especially around luxurious mooncakes.
This is another thing I recommend looking up if you
would like. Oh, there have been low or non fat offerings.
Some of all of this is controversial. It's caused a
(26:42):
lot of conversation about what a mooncake is?
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah, yeah, what right? What does it mean to you?
What should it mean? Can it mean different things to
different people? Are times changing too quickly? Is it in
fact the kids who are wrong? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, yeah, something we've run into in a lot. It's
not only mooncakes, but certainly there are people who do
not like the luxurious one. Specifically, I think that that's
not what it's about.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know, right right. Like also, like
like typical things that you run into with any kind
of food item, you know, low sugar mooncakes have been
a thing or like lower sugar or things with with
with trendy ingredients. There's been like a burst of sustainable
packaging for them. Yeah, stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Yeah, because the packaging is a at least in some cases,
it's a pretty big deal how it looks, and it
can also be very very pretty.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
So oh yeah, yeah, I think I didn't. I didn't
confirm it with like a second source, but but I
read that. I read that there's a law in some
places where the cost of the packaging can only be
twenty percent of the cost of the total gift set. Yeah,
(28:14):
unconfirmed number, but yeah, like people are really thinking about
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
I ran into something like that too, where they were
with the kind of really expensive ones. They were talking
about how much of that is going to the packaging
versus the moon cake. So this is, as we said,
there's so many other avenues we could go down. Oh yeah,
(28:45):
this is pretty much what we have for you today.
But if listeners, we would love to hear from you.
If you have experience or things that you would really
like us to cover that would be basing.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, please please do right in. But that
is what we have to say about Mooncake for now,
and we do already have some listener mail for you,
and we will get into that as soon as we
get back from a quick break for a word from
our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
We're back, Thank you, sponsors, Yes, thank you, and we're
back with listener singing to the moon.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Oh yeah, yeah, I do like a fool. Oh they're
pretty mm hmmmmm.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Okay. I love how many people have written in about soccer.
Tort Dan wrote appropriately, just got caught up on my
flight to Vienna the other day, had no idea about
soccer sort, So here I am at Cafe Soccer. Thanks
for the tip. I must say it is pretty decent.
Not a huge dessert person, especially chocolate and fruit or
(30:06):
not my thing, but it's not as sweet as I
was expecting, and the texture is fantastic. Slightly dense but
not dry. Picks attached for attention. About a forty minute
wait to get in, but definitely worth a stop if
you're in the neighborhood. Oh cool, that is cool. I
always love when we hear from listeners who heard an
(30:29):
episode of ours and go to investigate or go to
try it.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
That's and also when it's just on time, when it's like, oh,
I happened to be flying to Vienna, so thank you. Yeah. Yeah,
I promise we're not psychic, or if we are, we
don't know about it.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
So that's true.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
And if we didn't know about it, we would almost
certainly use our powers for good.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
I yes, I think, I think so. I yeah, thanks
for letting us know. Yeah, I've appreciated hearing from people
who have visited one of the two purported homes of
soccer chorts, and I'm glad to hear that it stood
(31:12):
up at least I would say it stood up, like
maybe you wouldn't go again, but it's a share.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
A pleasant experience.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Eric wrote the Wonderful World of Tea, all the different
flavors you can go with. I think selecting Earl Gray
to start with is a good choice. The flavor on
it is nice. I also love all the varieties of
grays that are out there. One of our favorites is
from Fortenham and Mason Victoria. Gray has a touch of
lavender and other flavors to it. Could go on about
all the different varieties, but I think you did a
(31:45):
good job covering some of the common ones. The London
fog is also a wonderful way to enjoy, and an
iced one can really hit the spot on a hot day.
Himan Aberko is tasty. I've had a taste of the
white label on a charcuterie board and did enjoy it.
It is something to try, but is definitely one of
those treat type things. It had a richness that was enjoyable,
(32:06):
but that richness is one that I think needs to
be in small amounts or it becomes way too much.
There are a lot of foods like that, absolutely wonderful,
but pricey and best done in small bites. I can't
remember the last time I had a fresh apricot, but
I do love dried ones straight up snack in a salad,
and we had a fruitcake once that had apricots in
(32:26):
it that was lovely. Always interesting to hear the story
behind something you generally just pick up and snack on.
And now I want to coogle. It has been years.
All the way back to college, my fraternity was predominantly Jewish,
and some of them lived real close to campus with
their family, so it was not uncommon to occasionally go
there for dinner. I remember having at least one at
(32:47):
a meal. The whole raisin thing is definitely interesting. It
seems like people either love raisins or want nothing to
do with them. I like raisins, but I also think
they need to be used properly in some dishes. They
work when used, but it can also be a matter
of when they get added. Sounds like maybe a raisin
show in the future. Oh yeah, oh yeah, that is
(33:10):
on our list. We may or may not have to
do a whole side episode about the California raisins.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Yes, which, if you don't know about the California raisins,
you were in for a horrifying treat. They scared me anyway,
but I absolutely startled.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
So yeah, I just kind of have a thing with clamation.
It sort of has always spooped me out. But yeah,
uh well now the season yeah, oh my goodness, Yeah, yeah,
all of this. I the different varieties of Earl Gray, right,
I feel like I need to I just usually go
(33:51):
with just Earl Gray, and I need to branch out
a little.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
I mean, it's true, what you say. There is the
world of its huge, so many flavors. Before I realized
my poor tea affliction, I used to go it was Tbana,
not a sposor, but I would go there and they
had all the samples and it would just be so
many samples and I didn't understand how how would I
(34:20):
ever find the tea tea? Yeah, when there's this whole world.
I did really like. There was a white jasmine one
I really loved.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Yeah, but yeah, there's a lot of Earl Grays we
only touched on, and that one we only touched on,
Lady Gray as the alternate, but I think I had
a list of at least ten.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
That are pretty popular, like Russian Rearl Gray, French All Gray.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Yeah, well, they kind of the trouble with some of
those definitions is that are some of those terms is
that they're real wibbly wobbly, like they don't they're they're
pretty proprietary from brand to brand about what they're actually
talking about. And so yeah, that's why I didn't really
go into like defined terms because I was like, eh,
some people put lavender in there. Tasty.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, we run into that kind of thing.
A lot. I also think Harmona Barrico, I agree. I
think it's delicious, but I yeah, I'm sure I could
eat a lot, but it's so expensive and it is
pretty rich, yeah, having like cheese with it, so it's
(35:33):
I don't I can't do too much.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Yeah, I wouldn't. I mean, like, it's kind of good
that it's outrageously expensive, because right, like you don't really
want to just a little as nice move on to
something else, which is the whole great thing about meat
and cheese plates, right, get to snack on all the
little different stuff.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
I did. I had my meat and cheese night, which
I can't remember if I mentioned. I mentioned it was
coming up in some recent episode, and it was pretty spectacular,
and I have to say it was devoured. Usually I
like have cheese left for a long time. That's not
gonna be the case this time. So I'm very happy
(36:17):
with that outcome.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Wonderful. Yeah, I know, I know that leftovers drive you
a little ban.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
So I don't like leftovers and I cheese. Don't get
me wrong. I've had many a cheese leftover from a
cheese plate. But eventually you're kind of like, I need
a vegetable other than cheese, something else than just cheese,
because badly doesn't really go with cheese like a cheese plate.
(36:44):
Cheese anyway, So I do have I have some breath left,
but it will it will go well in hand.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Oh good, good, I'm glad. I wouldn't want you to
have cheese stress.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
No, no, no, that's not what we need right now.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Oh and yeah I need I need some cookle too.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Yes, I must try it. I've decided the noodle one
is that, the savory noodle one is the one one
for you, but the potato one is a close second.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
The potato one is really good.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
I think I'd be very happy with either.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, it's a starch cast role.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Yeah delicious. Yeah, yes, we'll see if we can rectify
these things. And definitely raisins. I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Oh yeah, it's gonna be a lot, but it's gonna
be great.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah. We love strong opinions, as you know. Oh well.
In the meantime, thanks to both of these listeners for
writing in. If you would like to write to us,
you can or email us hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
We're also on social media. You can find us on
Instagram and Blue Sky at Saber Pod and we do
hope to hear from you. Savre is production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
(38:18):
that lots more good things are coming your way
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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