September 28, 2023 • 28 mins
This subspecies of fish has adapted to living in lakes and streams situated in high-altitude deserts – and it’s pretty tasty. Anney and Lauren dive into the ecology and history of Lahontan cutthroat trout.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello, and welcome to Saber production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Ayr and I'm Lord Vogelbaum, and today we have
an episode for you about cut Broke Trout, specifically hunting
cut Broke Trout.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
We do, and there's a very specific reason that we
chose it.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
There is, Okay, So the thing is is that right
now we're recording the live from the iHeart Podcasts Studio
powered by Bows at the House of Music at the
iHeart Radio Music Festival in Las Vegas. Yes, so we
are in Las Vegas in this little sound booth in
the middle of a music festival.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yes, that looks a.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Little bit like a like an action figure box, and
we are the action figures. And so passers by can
just kind of like stop and stare at us, which
is not what I'm used to, right.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
They can also just put on headphones and listen in
at any point they can.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
They could have been listening to me say that right then.
And the thing is like the headphones are are not
in front of the plastic opening from the plastic front
of the box, I can't see, so we can't see
when other people are listening. Right, It's like a psychological
experiment honestly.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
You might be on the sting man. Yes, but yeah,
you know, I wish you listeners were here to see
what we're seeing.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah where we are, Yeah, it's we're outside of this
this arena, and uh, they are broadcasting what's going on
inside the arena. And I think it's public enemy. Last
night we saw TLC we did. That was great.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I was singing my heart out. Oh me too.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I felt bad for anyone taking video. I was like, sorry,
I'm not going to stop shouting, but right, so okay,
So the specific kind of trout is native to the
Nevada area, and so I really wanted to just cut.
Like it's gonna it's gonna be a sad episode, you guys.
(02:12):
It's gonna be one of those like ecological issue episodes.
And I love that we came to this fun music
festival with all of this party environment and everyone having
a hecking great time, and I was like, let's be sad.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Can you imagine like anyone who's like glancing in here
right now, like, oh I've seen some gun music. Let
me check out what's going on in here? Every like
trout what? Yes, but it's really our brand. So I
feel I feel I feel good about.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
It me too, same, absolutely, yes, but if you have
to hear distractions and concentration are sounds, just know yeah,
well maybe we'll post some pictures, but you should.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, yeah, it's the whole thing. It's great, it's a great.
It's pretty intense. Yes, yes, you can see. We have
done several other fish episodes. You know. We love those
because fish are so interesting, and it's one of those
things where we have to continually remind ourselves we're not
(03:20):
like a biological show.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, fhode show hypathetically, but ye know, sea life is real.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Weird it is, yeah, it is. But I guess this
brings us to our question. Yeah, cutthroat trout.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
What are they?
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Well, cutthroat trout are a type of largely freshwater fish,
so named because they have these really distinctive red markings
around their gills and the hunting cutthroats have like a
furthermore bar of pinkish purple coloring all the way down
their sides. They're otherwise like a greenish brownish copper or
silver with black speckles. They're kind of cute. They're flesh
because we are a food show. Is orangish pink one
(04:03):
raw cooks to like a pinkish white and will be
like kind of tender, flaky, and texture generally a little
mild like maybe a little nutty, and flavor not super fishy,
more like clean. They're they're good size for freshwater fish,
often over five pounds or two kilos, like like good
for filets, Tasty when grilled or subtaed with the skin
on so that you get that nice crisp you know. Okay,
(04:24):
I haven't had it, actually, but I understand that they're
a little bit like a like a milder, less fatty salmon.
But these fish are survivors, yes, yes, and okay, So
scientists love arguing about taxonomy, which is a thing that
I love, Like, I love reading about scientists arguing about taxonomy.
They're like, well, actually so good, you know, like and
(04:47):
like whether things should be categorized as subspecies or their
own species. But as of right now, cut through a
trout are classified under the species on Koricas Clarky I. Yes,
with fourteen subspecies. Lahontan are subspecies henshaw E I henshaw E.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
I'm gonna go with that.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, sure, Latin. They are in the salmon family. They
live in rivers and lakes in the Lahontan Basin region,
which is a closed freshwater system in what's now California, Oregon,
and Nevada. It's part of the larger Great Basin of
western North America, but these are waterways that are high
in the mountains surrounded by desert. The lakes are a
(05:31):
little bit more alkaline and salty than a lot of
fish could tolerate, but these buddies are adapted to it,
though they do need like less salty river or stream
water to spawn in reproduction. Yeah, speaking of life cycle
of an LCT, the Internet likes calling them Lahontan cutry
(05:51):
of trout.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Female fish will select a riverbed or stream bed to
deposit eggs hundreds or even thousands, depending on the size
of the fish and other circumstances like their health location
makes sense, Malefish really sperm into the same areas. If fertilized,
the eggs will hatch into alvins, which are sort of
like protofish that are still attached to their yolk sac
(06:12):
as their food intake because they can't eat yet, and
then over the course of a couple of weeks, they'll
develop into fry, which are like minifish that can move
around more than eat a tiny zooplankton in the water
column start getting bigger. They have small teeth on the
back of their tongue. Okay, this is my fun sea
life fact for the episode. They have small teeth on
(06:35):
the back of their tongue.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It's kind of terrifying and I love it.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yes, I'm a little upset. Traditionally, they have been the
largest predatory fish in this ecosystem, capable of growing to
certainly over twenty pounds or nine kilos and thirty inches long,
which is about seventy five centimeters if they're in a lake.
They eat pretty much anything smaller than them which anyone
(07:01):
who happens to have an aquarium hobby as I have had,
understands when you put fish in a tank, they will
eat anything smaller than themselves cannon mill Yeah or not
not not smaller than them. Smell it's not smaller than themselves,
but smaller than their mouth if they if it.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Fits it, if.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
It fits, it eats. Yeah, it doesn't rhyme, but it's
still pretty cool. Yeah, mostly insects when they're younger, other
fish and small crustaceans when they're older. They can live
up to about nine years. They don't necessarily spawn every year.
It depends again on circumstances, which again fair understandable. You know, Yeah,
these fish are popular with anglers, like they're big and pretty.
(07:42):
They do respond really well to bait, and they put
up a fight, which I guess people find fun. Plus,
so you can either throw them back at that point
or you know, they're tasty. They are considered threatened as
a species, but laws allow for some limited fishing of them,
kind of as part of the conservation effort actually to
like encourage humans to help their populations out right. Yes,
(08:04):
they do have scales that you wouldn't want to eat,
but their skin is edible.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
As I said above, they.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Have orange pinkish flesh that can be flaid off or
cut into steaks once you've gutted them. At that point
you have to deal with bones. It's up to your preference,
you know. I understand from everything I've read they're just
really tasty. Their flavor will depend on their diet, so
they can be mild to more strongly fishy, depending and
even sort of like nutty sweet if they're eating mostly
insects and crustaceans and.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
You can cook them up. However, you like cooking.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Fish listeners, my goodness, yes, yes, Well what about the
nutrition by themselves?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Lct are pretty good for you, high end protein, good fats,
you know, eat, eat, eat a vegetable. Also, once you've
bread it and fried something, I make no nutritional promises.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
It might make you so happy.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Oh yes, oh, I totally encourage you to bread and
fry fish. Certainly most things us try it. Yes, but
fish is pretty provenly delicious that way.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
I did have some swordfish last night, Oh you did?
I did, and it was delicious, but I was so
full I couldn't eat thet I know, I got a problem. Yeah, right, right,
a lovely, lovely problem. That was really good. Okay, we
do have some numbers, facts or a couple. There's like
a number and a half. Yeah, sure, sure, yes, so.
(09:27):
Nevada state fish is the Haunting cutthroat trout, Utahs is
the Bonneville cutthroat trout.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
New Mexico's is the Rio Grande cutthroat. The record for
the largest LCT ever caught. It's from nineteen twenty five
for a forty one pounder that's eighteen point six kilos.
It was thirty nine inches long about a meter. That
is a he large fish.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
That's a big fish, a big fish.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
The hot and cutthroats currently live in about one hundred
and fifty streams comprising four hundred and eighty miles of habitat.
It's about seven hundred and seventy kilometers plus five lakes.
Their populations, though, are only self sustaining in about ten
percent of their historic river territory and in only like,
like less than one percent of their historic lake territory.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Right, And that's a big part of what we're going
to talk about in a history.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Section, yeah, which we are going to get into after
we get back from a quick break forward from.
Speaker 5 (10:34):
Our sponsors, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. And a reminder in
case you hear it in our voices, you hear it
in the background. You are listening to Save Her live
at the iHeart Podcast Studio powered by Bows at the
House of Music at the iHeartRadio Music Festival. It's a scene, y'all.
(11:05):
I really don't know how to describe what's going on
right now, but we're like in a box and we're
talking about well, people are listening to you music.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Our our lovely and helpful attendance. Are like are like
guiding people to the to the earphones, and I'm like,
oh goodness.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
This is this is well if you're listening, welcome, yeah,
thank you. Hi. Welcome to Trout. Welcome to Trout. As
you listen to Kelly Clark. Yes, but I'm glad I
(11:42):
am here with you, Lauren. There's no one I would
rather be doing this with.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Oh yeah, yeah, I can't imagine talking about Trout with
anyone else at a music festival.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yes, we're a perfect match in this way. Yes, but
all right, the history. Yes, so we are specifically talking
about the Haunted Cutthroat Trout mostly and it is believed
to have evolved in the in the La Haunted Basin,
which is like northeastern California, southeastern Oregon, and northern Nevada,
(12:16):
where over the course of a million years, the Haunted
Lake has grown and shrunk and moved. You can you
can find papers that have like traced what oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
It's super fascinating because like these water systems developed during
the Price to Scene glacial era and got cut off
from external waterways. So the evolution of a lot of
the wildlife there, like literally took a left turn at Albuquerque.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yes, certainly, certainly did. And for thousands of years, the
the Hanton cutthroat trout was culturally and economically important to
the local indigenous communities.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
One of the local tribes, the Lake Payut, originally called
themselves in translation, the Cement Lake fish eaters or the
Seventh Lake trout eaters.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Oh I like that. The cutthroat trout is often described
as the only trout native to Utah and the only
species present in the area prior to the eighteen hundreds
when white colonizers arrived. At the same time, new species
of trout, particularly the brown trout, were introduced, competing for
food and space, and also brown trout started eating the
(13:29):
local cutthroat trout. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Furthermore, the Hatton cutthroats can interbreed with similar species of trout,
and hybridization is considered another threat to their populations. Like
it would be considered good if they were interbreeding with
other subspecies of native cutthroat, but those are not the
fish that have been introduced to these.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Waterways that are causing the problems right. And on top
of that, even in these early years, we're talking about
the will hauntan cutthroat trout was susceptible to over harvesting,
also things like volution of diverting of the water, mining
harvesting of timber. Another big factor in the decline of
their population was the construction of the Derby Dam in
(14:11):
the early nineteen hundreds in Nevada.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, like one of their native lakes, Pyramid Lake, dropped
eighty feet in water level over the next sixty years
after the dam was built, it's become largely more salty
than the trout's eggs can survive in.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Right, So sometime in the mid nineteen hundreds, the lct
were largely forced out, slash relocated, and two isolated small
lake systems.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
This was a gradual process, as like all of these
different human interventions changed literally changed the landscape, physically isolating
these populations of these fish from other populations and from
other subspecies, thus limiting the amount of genetic diversity in
those populations. The concern here is that like if they
(14:59):
become too seized and then their habitat changes due to
climate change or further human intervention, they'll be unable to
adapt and will.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Die out right. So by the nineteen seventies, fissures in
the area, were worried that the cutthroat had gone extinct
and started fishing in lesser known areas. They also started
attempting to boost populations when they did discover these fish.
The LCT was originally listed as endangered in nineteen seventy
(15:32):
under the nineteen sixty nine Endangered Species Act.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, freshwater animals are particularly at risk. Right around this time,
the nineteen seventies, there was a big important push to
pay attention to the destruction of ecosystems and human caused extinctions.
Like today, global biodiversity is still in decline, but freshwater
(15:59):
fauna is declining five times faster than terrestrial fauna.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Yeah. And another piece of this is after several court
actions and a long fought battle, the Pyramid Lake Piute
Tribe negotiated with the US government about water allocations to
protect not only the lake but the fish that inhabited
the lake under the Endangered Species Act and then again
(16:25):
in the nineteen eighty seven renewal of the Clean Water Act.
Congress approved the Trucky River Settlement Act in nineteen ninety
one that required the Pyramid Lake Piute tribe to be
consulted in every decision involving the Trucky River, which.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah, late, but rad probably. Yes, consult the humans who
live there. That's a good thing to do.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah. Yes, Whether or not they actually did it, we'll
talk about more. Ye. Yes. In nineteen ninety five, the
recovery plan for Lahontan Lahontan cutthroat trout was approved and
officials found that the LCT still met the criteria endangered species.
In two thousand and nine, yep, yep. And then recently
(17:14):
the US Fish and Wildlife Service found that of the
seventy one populations of La Hontan cutthroat trout, only five
were resilient. The Summit Lake Paiute Tribe and the Pyramid
Lake Piot Tribe. I've been working for decades and possibly centuries,
which they pointed out is something not mentioned in this
(17:35):
report from the US government, and rightfully, I would say said,
this is another instance of the US government not listening
to indigenous people, are not acknowledging their efforts, and these
efforts have been successful.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
The indigenous people in this area manage a hatchery for
the Pyramid Lake Lahontan cutthroat trout, raising juvenile, juvenile fish
until they can be released into the Lake.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah, and in twenty twelve they successfully spawned there for
the first time.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
In eighty years. It's so cool.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Other reintroduction efforts are taking place around the Greater Great
Basin region, including in Lake Tahoe, And there's yeah, just
some really cool research going on in Summit Lake, which
is on the Piot Reservation. Together with the University of Reno.
They're studying the habitat and life cycle of the fish
to see what's going right and what's going wrong and
(18:33):
see how they can help create more circumstances of going right.
They have this whole fish tagging program that lets them
track fish as they migrate and spawn in these like
underwater camera systems to see what's going on with them.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Super cool.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
But yeah, again, this is sort of a Laurence Kiljoy episode.
Freshwater fish are going extinct eight hundred and seventy seven
times faster than normal extinction rates, So what can we do?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
You know, Like, that's that's.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
A heck of a statistic to drop on you and
then be like Okay, good bye, thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So yeah, like what can we do?
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I mean, like, you know, support science support legislation that
supports science, support conservation efforts, ask and then listen to
the native peoples who have been the stewards of the
land that other peoples are now occupying.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, yep, that's that's some pretty solid advice to end
on here. But as always, listeners, if you know more
about this, if there's something that we missed.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Oh goodness, yeah, yeah, because right because we haven't. Yeah,
I've not tried this food item. This episode has not
been about food very much, but you know, like like
if you have, you know that some of the stories
that I was reading were you know, just just these
memories of people going out fishing with their grandparents and
and being so sad that the pop relations have declined,
(20:01):
but so happy to be able to get to participate
in some of these reconstruction efforts, right.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, yeah, And that's one of the things we love
about this show, as much as it can be painful
to talk about, but those like memories and then the
effort to preserve so people in the future can have
those memories.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, and certainly yeah, if you have those memories,
we absolutely want to hear them.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
We do. But that is what we have to say
about Little Haunton Cutthroat Trout for now it is.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
We do already have some listener mail for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break for
a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you. We're
back with the listeners. You know, I don't know have
we done this in person in like.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
When when was the last time I was sitting across
the table.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
From each other? Yeah? Not since the pandemic. Right, yeah,
So we normally have like a I would say, a
second delay in the skype mutes everything. Yeah for Lauren.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, because because once Annie starts starts singing or doing
whatever it is that she's doing, I have Once I
start trying to follow her, I have no idea what
she's doing anymore, so I have to base it on
her hand gestures.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Yes, so this was a unique Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Also, I maintain that is a skill set, Lauren, you
have learned skill to interpret whatever I'm doing. So we
have two short ones today, but they're from two Kelsey's
but different kelceies. Oh okay, okay, all right, yes, So
(22:00):
first Kelsey wrote, if your mom needs a book recommendation? Okay,
speaking to me because I had said about my mom
loves these kind of mystery books. I also have this
other side gig going on. Okay, sure. The Golden Spoon
by Jessa Arnold is really good. Think Agatha Christie meets
British Bakeoff set in modern day Vermont on an old
(22:23):
money estate. Wow, that's great. I know there's so much
going on in this and I love it. The sentence
is stunning you. It's like you pulled off what Lauren
does when she's describing how something taste. You did that
for this book where I'm like, oh, yeah, right, that's
(22:44):
so that. Oh man, that sounds really that sounds really awesome.
The British Bakeoff, I'm just I want I want to
know warm. I want to know warm. You've intrigued me.
I'm booked.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, yeah, I'm like, how British Bakeoff does it get?
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Like?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Is there like a Gonzo all Fielding character in there somewhere?
Like I'm not sure, you never know, you never know?
Are they just talking about pastry a lot? I'm into
that too.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah. Is there like a competition going on? Is it
like a food competition? And then we'll have to read
it and find out. Oh yeah, yeah yeah, heck yeah,
thank you for the recommendation. All right.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
The other Kelsey, this one in DC, wrote, I'm listening
to your episode about Zimmus, which I've never heard of before,
but it sounds delicious and I hope to try it someday.
The description of cooking vegetables with fruit and or juice
reminds me of one of my favorite Thanksgiving side dishes,
carrots celery cooked with apple juice and a lot of butter.
I think my mom got the recipe from a magazine,
(23:55):
but I don't know anyone else who eats this. Are
you familiar with it? Listeners, please write in. I hope
you have a great fall. I'll just be here morning
the end of peach and tomato season while looking forward
to soup season. Here's a picture of a tomato gillette
I always say it wrong cool that I made with
the last of my Farmers Market tomatoes. It's a boneape
(24:16):
tita recipe plus everything but the bagel seasoning.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Oo. Yeah, I always feel bad when we talk about pictures,
and it's a very lovely picture.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah it's delicious, oh man, and good farmers Market tomatoes.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Oh oh, I mean, I'm right here with you. Falls
my favorite season for a lot of reasons. But I
will miss the tomatoes everywhere. Yeah, which is Yeah, I
feel like I haven't gotten a really good peach this year.
Even I don't think I have either. It's really fallen
down on that. Yeah, I know, I think it might
(24:52):
be too late.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
It might be it might be here. Pierson Farms, call us,
we need your help you. Pearson Farms is a is
a local farm that does really good peaches, really good peaches.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I cannot recommend them enough. Oh my gosh, my, I'm
like thinking about peaches. But I'll say I have this
background of food fighters going on, and it's amazing. It's
very intense. It's really intense music that's happening right now.
I have not heard of this side dish up the
(25:32):
ale juice I could see that.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
Yeah, see that.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, I haven't heard of it either. Apple juice I'm
fascinated by. Like orange juice, like citrus juice is usually
what I see inside dishes like this, Like definitely like
a like a sweet potato with orange juice is something
even outside of Zimis I've definitely seen.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
But apple juice, Yeah that sounds great, right, Yeah, I
mean it's also a lot of butter. As you say, well,
I mean that always sounds great. Never never, never, not
a lot of butter. I think I've told this story before,
but one of my older brother's best friends when we
were younger, he always loved coming to eat at our house,
and one day he finally said, it's because your mom
puts so much butter and everything beautiful. Yeah that's pretty good.
(26:15):
You like, see like broccoli, it looks so healthy, and
then you see this but perfect Oh yeah, so good.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Oh yeah, that was definitely for a brief period of
my life. Like how you got Lauren to eat vegetables?
Was that amount of butter?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I mean, eat your vegetables. You gotta get the kids
to do it right.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
But like eat eat, eat a fat. You need fat
in your diet. It's important. I was, look, I was,
you were ahead of I know, I was knew, you
knew what was going on.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
You did your future as a food podcaster. Who would
be sitting in this music festival you had already foreseen.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Yeah, I could see exactly this, Yes, talking about trapped
while people are listening to the food fighters.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Some things are just meant to be, you know, some
things are meant to be. You're right. Wow again. Thank
you Lauren for being here with me. Oh, thank you
for being here with me. Thanks to these listeners for
writing it. Yes. Yes, If you would like to write
to us, you can, and we would love to hear
(27:26):
from you. Our email is hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
We are also on social media. You can find us
on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver pod and we
would love to hear from you. Save is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you
can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our
superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard, with extra special thanks
(27:49):
today to super producer Tyler Klang for being here in
this weird.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
And wonderful space with us.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Thank you for listening, and we hope that lots more
good things things are coming your way
Hello, and welcome to Saber production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Ayr and I'm Lord Vogelbaum, and today we have
an episode for you about cut Broke Trout, specifically hunting
cut Broke Trout.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
We do, and there's a very specific reason that we
chose it.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
There is, Okay, So the thing is is that right
now we're recording the live from the iHeart Podcasts Studio
powered by Bows at the House of Music at the
iHeart Radio Music Festival in Las Vegas. Yes, so we
are in Las Vegas in this little sound booth in
the middle of a music festival.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yes, that looks a.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Little bit like a like an action figure box, and
we are the action figures. And so passers by can
just kind of like stop and stare at us, which
is not what I'm used to, right.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
They can also just put on headphones and listen in
at any point they can.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
They could have been listening to me say that right then.
And the thing is like the headphones are are not
in front of the plastic opening from the plastic front
of the box, I can't see, so we can't see
when other people are listening. Right, It's like a psychological
experiment honestly.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
You might be on the sting man. Yes, but yeah,
you know, I wish you listeners were here to see
what we're seeing.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah where we are, Yeah, it's we're outside of this
this arena, and uh, they are broadcasting what's going on
inside the arena. And I think it's public enemy. Last
night we saw TLC we did. That was great.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I was singing my heart out. Oh me too.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I felt bad for anyone taking video. I was like, sorry,
I'm not going to stop shouting, but right, so okay,
So the specific kind of trout is native to the
Nevada area, and so I really wanted to just cut.
Like it's gonna it's gonna be a sad episode, you guys.
(02:12):
It's gonna be one of those like ecological issue episodes.
And I love that we came to this fun music
festival with all of this party environment and everyone having
a hecking great time, and I was like, let's be sad.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Can you imagine like anyone who's like glancing in here
right now, like, oh I've seen some gun music. Let
me check out what's going on in here? Every like
trout what? Yes, but it's really our brand. So I
feel I feel I feel good about.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
It me too, same, absolutely, yes, but if you have
to hear distractions and concentration are sounds, just know yeah,
well maybe we'll post some pictures, but you should.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, yeah, it's the whole thing. It's great, it's a great.
It's pretty intense. Yes, yes, you can see. We have
done several other fish episodes. You know. We love those
because fish are so interesting, and it's one of those
things where we have to continually remind ourselves we're not
(03:20):
like a biological show.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, fhode show hypathetically, but ye know, sea life is real.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Weird it is, yeah, it is. But I guess this
brings us to our question. Yeah, cutthroat trout.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
What are they?
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Well, cutthroat trout are a type of largely freshwater fish,
so named because they have these really distinctive red markings
around their gills and the hunting cutthroats have like a
furthermore bar of pinkish purple coloring all the way down
their sides. They're otherwise like a greenish brownish copper or
silver with black speckles. They're kind of cute. They're flesh
because we are a food show. Is orangish pink one
(04:03):
raw cooks to like a pinkish white and will be
like kind of tender, flaky, and texture generally a little
mild like maybe a little nutty, and flavor not super fishy,
more like clean. They're they're good size for freshwater fish,
often over five pounds or two kilos, like like good
for filets, Tasty when grilled or subtaed with the skin
on so that you get that nice crisp you know. Okay,
(04:24):
I haven't had it, actually, but I understand that they're
a little bit like a like a milder, less fatty salmon.
But these fish are survivors, yes, yes, and okay, So
scientists love arguing about taxonomy, which is a thing that
I love, Like, I love reading about scientists arguing about taxonomy.
They're like, well, actually so good, you know, like and
(04:47):
like whether things should be categorized as subspecies or their
own species. But as of right now, cut through a
trout are classified under the species on Koricas Clarky I. Yes,
with fourteen subspecies. Lahontan are subspecies henshaw E I henshaw E.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
I'm gonna go with that.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, sure, Latin. They are in the salmon family. They
live in rivers and lakes in the Lahontan Basin region,
which is a closed freshwater system in what's now California, Oregon,
and Nevada. It's part of the larger Great Basin of
western North America, but these are waterways that are high
in the mountains surrounded by desert. The lakes are a
(05:31):
little bit more alkaline and salty than a lot of
fish could tolerate, but these buddies are adapted to it,
though they do need like less salty river or stream
water to spawn in reproduction. Yeah, speaking of life cycle
of an LCT, the Internet likes calling them Lahontan cutry
(05:51):
of trout.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Female fish will select a riverbed or stream bed to
deposit eggs hundreds or even thousands, depending on the size
of the fish and other circumstances like their health location
makes sense, Malefish really sperm into the same areas. If fertilized,
the eggs will hatch into alvins, which are sort of
like protofish that are still attached to their yolk sac
(06:12):
as their food intake because they can't eat yet, and
then over the course of a couple of weeks, they'll
develop into fry, which are like minifish that can move
around more than eat a tiny zooplankton in the water
column start getting bigger. They have small teeth on the
back of their tongue. Okay, this is my fun sea
life fact for the episode. They have small teeth on
(06:35):
the back of their tongue.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It's kind of terrifying and I love it.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yes, I'm a little upset. Traditionally, they have been the
largest predatory fish in this ecosystem, capable of growing to
certainly over twenty pounds or nine kilos and thirty inches long,
which is about seventy five centimeters if they're in a lake.
They eat pretty much anything smaller than them which anyone
(07:01):
who happens to have an aquarium hobby as I have had,
understands when you put fish in a tank, they will
eat anything smaller than themselves cannon mill Yeah or not
not not smaller than them. Smell it's not smaller than themselves,
but smaller than their mouth if they if it.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Fits it, if.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
It fits, it eats. Yeah, it doesn't rhyme, but it's
still pretty cool. Yeah, mostly insects when they're younger, other
fish and small crustaceans when they're older. They can live
up to about nine years. They don't necessarily spawn every year.
It depends again on circumstances, which again fair understandable. You know, Yeah,
these fish are popular with anglers, like they're big and pretty.
(07:42):
They do respond really well to bait, and they put
up a fight, which I guess people find fun. Plus,
so you can either throw them back at that point
or you know, they're tasty. They are considered threatened as
a species, but laws allow for some limited fishing of them,
kind of as part of the conservation effort actually to
like encourage humans to help their populations out right. Yes,
(08:04):
they do have scales that you wouldn't want to eat,
but their skin is edible.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
As I said above, they.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Have orange pinkish flesh that can be flaid off or
cut into steaks once you've gutted them. At that point
you have to deal with bones. It's up to your preference,
you know. I understand from everything I've read they're just
really tasty. Their flavor will depend on their diet, so
they can be mild to more strongly fishy, depending and
even sort of like nutty sweet if they're eating mostly
insects and crustaceans and.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
You can cook them up. However, you like cooking.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Fish listeners, my goodness, yes, yes, Well what about the
nutrition by themselves?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Lct are pretty good for you, high end protein, good fats,
you know, eat, eat, eat a vegetable. Also, once you've
bread it and fried something, I make no nutritional promises.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
It might make you so happy.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Oh yes, oh, I totally encourage you to bread and
fry fish. Certainly most things us try it. Yes, but
fish is pretty provenly delicious that way.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
I did have some swordfish last night, Oh you did?
I did, and it was delicious, but I was so
full I couldn't eat thet I know, I got a problem. Yeah, right, right,
a lovely, lovely problem. That was really good. Okay, we
do have some numbers, facts or a couple. There's like
a number and a half. Yeah, sure, sure, yes, so.
(09:27):
Nevada state fish is the Haunting cutthroat trout, Utahs is
the Bonneville cutthroat trout.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
New Mexico's is the Rio Grande cutthroat. The record for
the largest LCT ever caught. It's from nineteen twenty five
for a forty one pounder that's eighteen point six kilos.
It was thirty nine inches long about a meter. That
is a he large fish.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
That's a big fish, a big fish.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
The hot and cutthroats currently live in about one hundred
and fifty streams comprising four hundred and eighty miles of habitat.
It's about seven hundred and seventy kilometers plus five lakes.
Their populations, though, are only self sustaining in about ten
percent of their historic river territory and in only like,
like less than one percent of their historic lake territory.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Right, And that's a big part of what we're going
to talk about in a history.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Section, yeah, which we are going to get into after
we get back from a quick break forward from.
Speaker 5 (10:34):
Our sponsors, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. And a reminder in
case you hear it in our voices, you hear it
in the background. You are listening to Save Her live
at the iHeart Podcast Studio powered by Bows at the
House of Music at the iHeartRadio Music Festival. It's a scene, y'all.
(11:05):
I really don't know how to describe what's going on
right now, but we're like in a box and we're
talking about well, people are listening to you music.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Our our lovely and helpful attendance. Are like are like
guiding people to the to the earphones, and I'm like,
oh goodness.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
This is this is well if you're listening, welcome, yeah,
thank you. Hi. Welcome to Trout. Welcome to Trout. As
you listen to Kelly Clark. Yes, but I'm glad I
(11:42):
am here with you, Lauren. There's no one I would
rather be doing this with.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Oh yeah, yeah, I can't imagine talking about Trout with
anyone else at a music festival.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yes, we're a perfect match in this way. Yes, but
all right, the history. Yes, so we are specifically talking
about the Haunted Cutthroat Trout mostly and it is believed
to have evolved in the in the La Haunted Basin,
which is like northeastern California, southeastern Oregon, and northern Nevada,
(12:16):
where over the course of a million years, the Haunted
Lake has grown and shrunk and moved. You can you
can find papers that have like traced what oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
It's super fascinating because like these water systems developed during
the Price to Scene glacial era and got cut off
from external waterways. So the evolution of a lot of
the wildlife there, like literally took a left turn at Albuquerque.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yes, certainly, certainly did. And for thousands of years, the
the Hanton cutthroat trout was culturally and economically important to
the local indigenous communities.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
One of the local tribes, the Lake Payut, originally called
themselves in translation, the Cement Lake fish eaters or the
Seventh Lake trout eaters.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Oh I like that. The cutthroat trout is often described
as the only trout native to Utah and the only
species present in the area prior to the eighteen hundreds
when white colonizers arrived. At the same time, new species
of trout, particularly the brown trout, were introduced, competing for
food and space, and also brown trout started eating the
(13:29):
local cutthroat trout. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Furthermore, the Hatton cutthroats can interbreed with similar species of trout,
and hybridization is considered another threat to their populations. Like
it would be considered good if they were interbreeding with
other subspecies of native cutthroat, but those are not the
fish that have been introduced to these.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Waterways that are causing the problems right. And on top
of that, even in these early years, we're talking about
the will hauntan cutthroat trout was susceptible to over harvesting,
also things like volution of diverting of the water, mining
harvesting of timber. Another big factor in the decline of
their population was the construction of the Derby Dam in
(14:11):
the early nineteen hundreds in Nevada.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, like one of their native lakes, Pyramid Lake, dropped
eighty feet in water level over the next sixty years
after the dam was built, it's become largely more salty
than the trout's eggs can survive in.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Right, So sometime in the mid nineteen hundreds, the lct
were largely forced out, slash relocated, and two isolated small
lake systems.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
This was a gradual process, as like all of these
different human interventions changed literally changed the landscape, physically isolating
these populations of these fish from other populations and from
other subspecies, thus limiting the amount of genetic diversity in
those populations. The concern here is that like if they
(14:59):
become too seized and then their habitat changes due to
climate change or further human intervention, they'll be unable to
adapt and will.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Die out right. So by the nineteen seventies, fissures in
the area, were worried that the cutthroat had gone extinct
and started fishing in lesser known areas. They also started
attempting to boost populations when they did discover these fish.
The LCT was originally listed as endangered in nineteen seventy
(15:32):
under the nineteen sixty nine Endangered Species Act.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, freshwater animals are particularly at risk. Right around this time,
the nineteen seventies, there was a big important push to
pay attention to the destruction of ecosystems and human caused extinctions.
Like today, global biodiversity is still in decline, but freshwater
(15:59):
fauna is declining five times faster than terrestrial fauna.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Yeah. And another piece of this is after several court
actions and a long fought battle, the Pyramid Lake Piute
Tribe negotiated with the US government about water allocations to
protect not only the lake but the fish that inhabited
the lake under the Endangered Species Act and then again
(16:25):
in the nineteen eighty seven renewal of the Clean Water Act.
Congress approved the Trucky River Settlement Act in nineteen ninety
one that required the Pyramid Lake Piute tribe to be
consulted in every decision involving the Trucky River, which.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah, late, but rad probably. Yes, consult the humans who
live there. That's a good thing to do.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah. Yes, Whether or not they actually did it, we'll
talk about more. Ye. Yes. In nineteen ninety five, the
recovery plan for Lahontan Lahontan cutthroat trout was approved and
officials found that the LCT still met the criteria endangered species.
In two thousand and nine, yep, yep. And then recently
(17:14):
the US Fish and Wildlife Service found that of the
seventy one populations of La Hontan cutthroat trout, only five
were resilient. The Summit Lake Paiute Tribe and the Pyramid
Lake Piot Tribe. I've been working for decades and possibly centuries,
which they pointed out is something not mentioned in this
(17:35):
report from the US government, and rightfully, I would say said,
this is another instance of the US government not listening
to indigenous people, are not acknowledging their efforts, and these
efforts have been successful.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
The indigenous people in this area manage a hatchery for
the Pyramid Lake Lahontan cutthroat trout, raising juvenile, juvenile fish
until they can be released into the Lake.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah, and in twenty twelve they successfully spawned there for
the first time.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
In eighty years. It's so cool.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Other reintroduction efforts are taking place around the Greater Great
Basin region, including in Lake Tahoe, And there's yeah, just
some really cool research going on in Summit Lake, which
is on the Piot Reservation. Together with the University of Reno.
They're studying the habitat and life cycle of the fish
to see what's going right and what's going wrong and
(18:33):
see how they can help create more circumstances of going right.
They have this whole fish tagging program that lets them
track fish as they migrate and spawn in these like
underwater camera systems to see what's going on with them.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Super cool.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
But yeah, again, this is sort of a Laurence Kiljoy episode.
Freshwater fish are going extinct eight hundred and seventy seven
times faster than normal extinction rates, So what can we do?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
You know, Like, that's that's.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
A heck of a statistic to drop on you and
then be like Okay, good bye, thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So yeah, like what can we do?
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I mean, like, you know, support science support legislation that
supports science, support conservation efforts, ask and then listen to
the native peoples who have been the stewards of the
land that other peoples are now occupying.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, yep, that's that's some pretty solid advice to end
on here. But as always, listeners, if you know more
about this, if there's something that we missed.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Oh goodness, yeah, yeah, because right because we haven't. Yeah,
I've not tried this food item. This episode has not
been about food very much, but you know, like like
if you have, you know that some of the stories
that I was reading were you know, just just these
memories of people going out fishing with their grandparents and
and being so sad that the pop relations have declined,
(20:01):
but so happy to be able to get to participate
in some of these reconstruction efforts, right.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, yeah, And that's one of the things we love
about this show, as much as it can be painful
to talk about, but those like memories and then the
effort to preserve so people in the future can have
those memories.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, and certainly yeah, if you have those memories,
we absolutely want to hear them.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
We do. But that is what we have to say
about Little Haunton Cutthroat Trout for now it is.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
We do already have some listener mail for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break for
a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you. We're
back with the listeners. You know, I don't know have
we done this in person in like.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
When when was the last time I was sitting across
the table.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
From each other? Yeah? Not since the pandemic. Right, yeah,
So we normally have like a I would say, a
second delay in the skype mutes everything. Yeah for Lauren.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, because because once Annie starts starts singing or doing
whatever it is that she's doing, I have Once I
start trying to follow her, I have no idea what
she's doing anymore, so I have to base it on
her hand gestures.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Yes, so this was a unique Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Also, I maintain that is a skill set, Lauren, you
have learned skill to interpret whatever I'm doing. So we
have two short ones today, but they're from two Kelsey's
but different kelceies. Oh okay, okay, all right, yes, So
(22:00):
first Kelsey wrote, if your mom needs a book recommendation? Okay,
speaking to me because I had said about my mom
loves these kind of mystery books. I also have this
other side gig going on. Okay, sure. The Golden Spoon
by Jessa Arnold is really good. Think Agatha Christie meets
British Bakeoff set in modern day Vermont on an old
(22:23):
money estate. Wow, that's great. I know there's so much
going on in this and I love it. The sentence
is stunning you. It's like you pulled off what Lauren
does when she's describing how something taste. You did that
for this book where I'm like, oh, yeah, right, that's
(22:44):
so that. Oh man, that sounds really that sounds really awesome.
The British Bakeoff, I'm just I want I want to
know warm. I want to know warm. You've intrigued me.
I'm booked.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, yeah, I'm like, how British Bakeoff does it get?
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Like?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Is there like a Gonzo all Fielding character in there somewhere?
Like I'm not sure, you never know, you never know?
Are they just talking about pastry a lot? I'm into
that too.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah. Is there like a competition going on? Is it
like a food competition? And then we'll have to read
it and find out. Oh yeah, yeah yeah, heck yeah,
thank you for the recommendation. All right.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
The other Kelsey, this one in DC, wrote, I'm listening
to your episode about Zimmus, which I've never heard of before,
but it sounds delicious and I hope to try it someday.
The description of cooking vegetables with fruit and or juice
reminds me of one of my favorite Thanksgiving side dishes,
carrots celery cooked with apple juice and a lot of butter.
I think my mom got the recipe from a magazine,
(23:55):
but I don't know anyone else who eats this. Are
you familiar with it? Listeners, please write in. I hope
you have a great fall. I'll just be here morning
the end of peach and tomato season while looking forward
to soup season. Here's a picture of a tomato gillette
I always say it wrong cool that I made with
the last of my Farmers Market tomatoes. It's a boneape
(24:16):
tita recipe plus everything but the bagel seasoning.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Oo. Yeah, I always feel bad when we talk about pictures,
and it's a very lovely picture.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah it's delicious, oh man, and good farmers Market tomatoes.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Oh oh, I mean, I'm right here with you. Falls
my favorite season for a lot of reasons. But I
will miss the tomatoes everywhere. Yeah, which is Yeah, I
feel like I haven't gotten a really good peach this year.
Even I don't think I have either. It's really fallen
down on that. Yeah, I know, I think it might
(24:52):
be too late.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
It might be it might be here. Pierson Farms, call us,
we need your help you. Pearson Farms is a is
a local farm that does really good peaches, really good peaches.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I cannot recommend them enough. Oh my gosh, my, I'm
like thinking about peaches. But I'll say I have this
background of food fighters going on, and it's amazing. It's
very intense. It's really intense music that's happening right now.
I have not heard of this side dish up the
(25:32):
ale juice I could see that.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
Yeah, see that.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, I haven't heard of it either. Apple juice I'm
fascinated by. Like orange juice, like citrus juice is usually
what I see inside dishes like this, Like definitely like
a like a sweet potato with orange juice is something
even outside of Zimis I've definitely seen.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
But apple juice, Yeah that sounds great, right, Yeah, I
mean it's also a lot of butter. As you say, well,
I mean that always sounds great. Never never, never, not
a lot of butter. I think I've told this story before,
but one of my older brother's best friends when we
were younger, he always loved coming to eat at our house,
and one day he finally said, it's because your mom
puts so much butter and everything beautiful. Yeah that's pretty good.
(26:15):
You like, see like broccoli, it looks so healthy, and
then you see this but perfect Oh yeah, so good.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Oh yeah, that was definitely for a brief period of
my life. Like how you got Lauren to eat vegetables?
Was that amount of butter?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I mean, eat your vegetables. You gotta get the kids
to do it right.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
But like eat eat, eat a fat. You need fat
in your diet. It's important. I was, look, I was,
you were ahead of I know, I was knew, you
knew what was going on.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
You did your future as a food podcaster. Who would
be sitting in this music festival you had already foreseen.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Yeah, I could see exactly this, Yes, talking about trapped
while people are listening to the food fighters.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Some things are just meant to be, you know, some
things are meant to be. You're right. Wow again. Thank
you Lauren for being here with me. Oh, thank you
for being here with me. Thanks to these listeners for
writing it. Yes. Yes, If you would like to write
to us, you can, and we would love to hear
(27:26):
from you. Our email is hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
We are also on social media. You can find us
on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver pod and we
would love to hear from you. Save is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you
can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our
superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard, with extra special thanks
(27:49):
today to super producer Tyler Klang for being here in
this weird.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
And wonderful space with us.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Thank you for listening, and we hope that lots more
good things things are coming your way
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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