June 26, 2024 • 42 mins
This near-omnipresent citrus has been a rare treat, a reason to develop irrigation technology, a cure for scurvy, and a protection against the black plague. Anney and Lauren unpeel the botany and history behind the lemon.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor production for iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm Annie Res and I'm Moren vogel Baum, and today
we have an episode for you about lemons.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yes, I'm already nervous.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
It's an overwhelming topic.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Yeah, it is. It is. Was there any reason it
was on your mind? Oh?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
It's been on our list for since the beginning, and
I this is the year of like, let's do the
overwhelming topics. So here, here we are, Yeah, here we are.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
It was definitely an overwhelming topic. It was intimidating, and
I kept getting tempted by a bunch of rabbit holes
because there's so much with lemon. There's like so many
specific desserts and so many specific savory applications and just
(01:07):
cultural notes.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah, yeah, a lot of weird pop culture notes in
here that we actually didn't really go into basically at all.
This will have to be side quests for future days.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yes, it definitely will. Because we were talking off mic
before this about just memories that we have with lemon
in pop culture that are bizarre and we don't know
the answer to at this current moment. If anybody remembers, fine,
(01:44):
then maybe you'll know what we're talking.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
About Yeah, there was a whole thing with people like
spitting out lemons or pretending to on vine, which is
a thing that I hadn't even remembered existed until you
brought it up before we started recording.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
So I went on a deep dive when they were like,
the government might ban TikTok, and I was like, remember
vine though. Anyway, I love lemon. I'm a big like
a lemon in savory instances. I add it to a
(02:23):
bunch of like vegetables and meats. I also love just
adding it to water. That's a big thing my mom
did same. I've mentioned before. I have a post it.
I don't know if that's quite what you'd call it,
but I have the equivalent of a post it on
my phone where I just keep track of people's favorite desserts,
(02:45):
and I have on there for you, Lauren, lemon lemon dessert.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Lemon desserts are definitely one of my favorite things. I
also dislike food. I mean, it's difficult for me to
have favorites because they're all sort of favorite, you know,
but I do. I also, yep, am just very fond
of a lemon, and yeah, I had to really like
pair back on what I could make notes on for today,
(03:15):
because right, like, I just have so many like favorite
lemon things. My mom used to make candied lemon and
orange peel for Christmas for her father every year, which
was a huge pain in the rear, but like so tasty,
so tasty. One of my favorite weird desserts to bring
(03:36):
to events is called a shaker lemon pie. It's made
with whole lemons sliced very thin and then macerated in
sugar and then so the whole lemon peel and pitthan
all is just in these little ribbons in the in
the pie with a nice like kind of like egg
bas so or like lemon meringue or I don't know,
all of them, all of them nice lemon cakes. I
(03:57):
agree with sans of stark. Yeah, yeah, I like them.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I like a really good thin cut of lemon too.
I have some, like some of my favorite sushi rolls have.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
A really ooh yeah, yeah, totally. It's all good to write,
just a squeeze over the top or grate some of
the zest into literally everything, or uugh.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Put it in your like coffee or tea. And I
know some people are like coffee, but yes, I put
it in my coffee.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
A little bit of lemon zest in an espresso is
one of my very favorite things.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
It's really good. So yes, it can go. You can
see all of the rabbit holes and pasts. We had
to be like not today, Yeah, vigilant, Yeah, yes, Otherwise.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
We wouldn't be recording this right now because we would
still be writing things about lemons.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, yes, indeed, And we have talked about lemons several
times before. Sure, we have talked about them a lot
in several Cocktail Hours, which we'll touch on in this episode. Lemonade,
which I forgot we did. Oh that's a great one. Yeah,
oh yeah, it's fantastic. I forgot how wild that one is. Oranges, lime, grapefruit,
(05:20):
citrus in general. Yeah, yeah, yeah, lemon comes up a lot,
it does, it does. But I guess this brings us
to our question, sure, lemon, what is it?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Well? Lemons are types of smallish, say like palm sized
or smaller citrus fruits that come in a number of varieties,
but tend to have like a juicy, pale yellow pulp
surrounded by a thick layer of spongy and bitter white
pif encased in a protective, like thin but tough, bright
yellow rind that contains a lot of fragrant oil. They're
(06:00):
shaped like a little oval that's pinched at both ends.
And yeah, the pulp is like tart, sweet and puckery, astringent,
and a little floral. The rind is similar, but more
floral and sort of bitter. The pit is very bitter
and is often discarded. And lemons are used right and
just all kinds of things sweet and savory food and
drinks to bring a sort of brightness in on their own.
(06:23):
Their juice and or rind might feature in cakes or
sorbets or candies or sweetened lemonade. They'll often add a
punch of tartness or bitterness to other fruits and pie
and jam type situations. They can be added to salty
or savory preserves. They can be squeezed over a finished
savory dish to make it pop, or you can grate
(06:43):
the rind over a dish to add depth. They mix
really well with various types of flavors and cocktails and
baked goods and creamy dishes. They just taste bright and
sunny and yellow. They're like if you just captured a
crayon sunbeam in a juicy living jewel. Yes, yeah, yes.
(07:08):
Lemons grow on a type of small tropical to subtropical
evergreen tree that grows to about a ten to twenty
feet in height that's about three to six meters, with
thorns on the branches. I don't know if you ever
knew that lemons and limes are definitely thorny and these
kind of oblong, pointy green leaves. They can flower and
fruit year round, but are typically most productive in the
late winter and sometimes early summer in climates that have
(07:30):
cool summers. They cannot stand below freezing temperatures. When they
do flower, they bloom with these pretty and fragrant white
or like white to purple flowers that, if pollinated, will
develop into this fruit fruit that's green at first, but
as it ripens will go yellow to golden and reach
like two to five inches long that's about five to
(07:50):
twelve centimeters. Different varieties can have a rind that's smooth
to pebbled, thicker or thinner, with more or less pith underneath,
and the flesh inside is made up of many tiny vesicles,
meaning sort of like individually wrapped drops of juice, each
inside their own tear drop shaped membrane. Those vesicles are
(08:12):
further wrapped in larger segments of membrane like a juicy
three D pie. Yeah, the juice can be pale yellow
to gold to kind of pinkish in color, and each
segment may contain one or a few seeds. The whole
unit is just a really clever way of protecting the
fruit in the seeds. They are small enough that they're
(08:33):
not typically peeled and segmented the way that oranges or
grapefruits might be, but rather sliced into either rounds or wedges.
Any slices or gratings from the peel should be taken
before the fruit is cut, though, because that just makes
it a lot more structurally sound. Yeah and yeah, they
can be used in just about anything. The flavors are
(08:56):
delicate enough that in a lot of soups and stews
and sauces, like anything your cook for a while, the
juice or rind is usually added towards the end of
cooking or after cooking is finished. The rind is more
strongly flavored and can stand up to sweet or rich
flavors as well. Different types are harvested earlier or later
in development for different purposes. For fresh sale, the fruit
(09:18):
is often picked green and encoated with a thin protective
wax layer, and then allowed to ripen to maturity during
packing our storage. Lemons are also processed for their juice
and for their extracts like essential oils, citric acid, and
pectin for use in all kinds of food, cosmetic, household
and industrial products.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, yeah, well what about the nutrition by themselves?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Lemons are pretty good for you. You know, if you
actually eat those membranes and not just the juice, that's
a good punch of fiber. They've got a bunch of
micronutrients and yeah, you know, once you add them to
cake or you know, add a bunch of sugar and
(10:08):
vodka to them to make lemon cello. I can't make
you any promises about the nutritive qualities.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Which, yes, we've been teasing a lemon cello episode for
a while. That is not this episode.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
That is not this episode either now, although I heck
and love a lemon cello and I would love to
talk about it.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
I would as well. And we've gotten some great listener
mail about lemonchello. Oh yeah, so keep that coming. Well,
that's for another time today we do have some numbers
for you.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
We do. Okay, A mature lemon tree can produce around
one hundred to two hundred pounds of fruit per year.
That's about forty five to ninety kilos. That's a bunch
of lemons. Global lemon production averages around five point seven
million tons a year as of like the twenty teens.
(11:04):
Of that, about three point six million tons we're being
sold fresh for consumption. That's about three kilos of lemons
per human person per year. What I think. I didn't
check that math, So if it's really off, just don't
(11:24):
tell me. Just let it sit and let the website
that I got it from be wrong.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Go after them, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, that's the lemonage dot com. Okay, it's a Spanish
marketing group for lemons.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
I'm willing to roll with it for today. All right.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I'm pretty sure that Mexico and Argentina produce the most
lemons for fresh consumption and for processing respectively. Spain does
lead European production at about a million tons a year. Also,
I read that the production area, like the hectorage for lemons,
has just about doubled in the past twenty years, leading
(12:16):
to a bit of an overproduction crisis versus like the
market demand. So that's a situation to watch in the future.
All right, a few world records for you. The heaviest
lemon on record was grown in two thousand and three
in Israel. It weighed five point three kilos. That's like
(12:40):
eleven point six pounds. That's bigger than my cat. It
was thirty five centimeters long with a circumference of seventy
four centimeters that's fourteen by twenty nine inches. That's a
(13:01):
lemon bigger than your head.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Wow. I have a lot of questions, honestly, but I
accept this happened. I'm just curious in many ways as
to how.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I yep, I couldn't tell you. I couldn't tell you
right now. It did also, interestingly grow alongside a very
slightly smaller sibling, so yeah, the photos are great. Lemons
also hold the record for the highest voltage created via
(13:43):
a fruit based battery. Okay, I don't remember, I didn't
write down. Oh I think this was in twenty twenty one. Okay,
So the Royal Society of Chemistry worked with the University
of Bath to create a battery using two nine hundred
and twenty three lemons, with which they produced two three
(14:08):
hundred and eight vaults of charge, enough to launch an
electric go kart. The lemons were then sent to a
processor that creates biogas from food wastes. So it was
really overall a very energy productive batch of lemonss.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Wow, yeah at white places.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah yeah, I wasn't expecting me neither, but you're right,
very productive limits yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Lastly, the fastest time to peel and eat a lemon
was achieved with multiple question marks in twenty ten in
New York City at eight point two five seconds.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I mean, it's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I don't think I could do it that fast, so
here why.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
I definitely could it? Absolutely not. I'm a borrible feeling.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Me too too. Oh okay, moving on to lemon festivals.
There are many lemon festivals. Here's a small spattering. Okay,
we just missed one in Upland, California in mid June.
That's in its twenty seventh year. They featured Eve Sex
as a musical guest this year. They also have an
(15:34):
idle contest for solo vocalists and a mechanical bull riding contest,
among many other activities. There's one in Chula Vista, California.
It's also in its twenty seventh year. It's happening August seventeenth,
so you've still got time to plan. If you're in
like the San Diego area. Their tagline is Eat, Drink
and be zesty. There's a cooking competition, you know, food
(16:00):
and drinking, craft vendors, music, and I quote photo opportunities
with the beloved Tarty, the Lemon Tarty, the lemon being
their mascot, which I had a surprisingly difficult time finding
photographs of. Oh that's I need y'all, I need you
(16:23):
all to answer this call. They no longer really the
area no longer really has that many lemons, but in
the early nineteen hundreds, like the town was mostly lemon groves,
so it's sort of been celebration of that. Another and oh,
I didn't look up how to say this. Golita Goletta, California,
(16:46):
also celebrates its area's agricultural history of booming lemon orchards
through the first half of the twentieth century with a festival.
It's in its thirtieth iteration this year in late September,
so you've also got time. There are the two things
that I saw mostly are car shows and pie eating contests,
(17:08):
and the photos of the pie eating contests that I
saw all looked to me like lemon merangue, but it's
hard for me to say.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah yeah again right in yes please.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
There's one in Monte Rosso, Italy that happens every day,
so we're way late on that one. There are tours
through the local orchards and lots of food and drink,
and awards for the biggest lemon grown that year and
also the best decorated window in town. This seems like
a beautiful, charming seaside event, but perhaps the most spectacular
(17:49):
festival for lemons is La Fete Dusitron in menton East
Ways along the coast of the French Riviera, which had
its ninety first year this February. There is a parade
with floats decorated in lemons and oranges sort of like beadwork,
and in fact a fruit sculpture exhibit with these like
(18:13):
lemon and orange beadwork pieces, by which I mean the
lemons and oranges are the beads that are up to
ten meters tall that's about thirty feet, incorporating some fifteen
tons of fruit each picture like an Eiffel Tower of
(18:33):
Citrus that's rigged with fireworks at the top, castles and
bell towers and trains and dragons and lions and whales
made of lemons and oranges. There's a theme every year
that all of the artists follow. And I read that
(18:56):
they have a mascot too one John Lemon, Himme, Lemon, heme.
I don't know, French. I'm sorry, And I furthermore couldn't
find anything else about this.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Oh wow. Once again, listeners, we're counting on you because
I'm just building an image in my head and I
don't think it's correct. So I need you to step in.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah yeah, uh and right, and you'll know how much
we like a food mascot. So yes, So this is
all critical, is very very important.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
I also have to say I never expected Eve six
to come up in any episode.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah yeah, but here we are, here, we are yeah lemons, lemons. Yeah.
They were any other musical acts advertised. I just that one.
I'm dating myself here, but like that one was the
one that absolutely stood out to me.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Well, it does have the opening line of their very
popular song I would choke on the runs. I you know,
I feel like they put some thought into asking six.
I could be wrong. This is a it's not like
one of our go to karaoke songs. But we do
(20:32):
sing yeah eve six, Yes, we do sing Eve six
at karaoke sometimes. So this is very funny and I
did not expect it.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So, as as always, you never know where the reading
is going to take you.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
No, you do not know. Well, the history is also
a pretty wild ride.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Oh yeah, oh yep hmm, And we are going to
get into that as soon as we get into a
quick break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
And we're back.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Okay. So, according to fairly recent DNA analysis, scientists and
researchers believe that the first citrus trees traced back eight
million years ago to the southeast Himalayas. It's quite a story,
but as the climate changed, a process that took millions
(21:48):
of years, the trees were able to spread throughout the
region and then around the world, and over time, one
branch of these trees eventually evolved into lemon trees. How
as I was reading this, I found even more recent
research out of twenty twenty three that pinpoints the origin
of these trees. Are their precursors specifically to the Indian
(22:13):
subcontinent twenty five million years ago, which then further diversified
and evolved in south central China eight million years ago.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Okay, okay, Yeah, And a.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Large part of this diversification revolved around the amount of
citric acid and the fruits, which is really important when
it comes to flavor. So the more citric acid, the
more sour. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah. Citric acid, by the way, is one of those
things that's going to have to be an entirely different
episode because it's a very large topic.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yes, yes it is. But all that to say, it's
been very difficult for researchers to pin down the history
of citrus and lemons, and the early history of human
consumption of lemons is hard to trek down, in part
because the records are sparse, and the records that we
(23:04):
do have aren't always clear about the citrus fruit in question. Yeah.
Some like to make a distinction between the citron the
early quote original women and the women we know today,
and some don't make that distinction. So it's a bit
of a mess yep mysteries history. We do know the
(23:27):
citron slash early lemon traveled along trade routes to places
like ancient Rome and the Mediterranean by two hundred CE,
and that they were being cultivated in modern day Egypt
and Iran by at least seven hundred CE. Some sources
go back way earlier, though, and argue that the first
written reference to women is in a Hindu religious text
(23:49):
from eight hundred BCE, and that it was in Persia
by six hundred BCE, and Alexander the Great introduced it
to the Mediterranean and hundred BC, so way earlier. Whatever
the case, it's possible that lemons were being used for
fragrance at the time, amongst other things, since they were
(24:12):
expensive and rare in ancient Rome, they were signs of
wealth and status, and likely used more ornamentally for their
scent or medicinally, and to that end, according to a
few sources, I found the Persians prized lemons because lemon
trees require a lot of water, they developed irrigation techniques
(24:33):
to grow them. Many argue the first written references actually
in a farming treatise written by Arabs scholar Custos Alromy
And I apologize if I got that wrong. I tried
to find it and I could not, but correct me.
Please Some of the first recipes we know of utilizing
(24:55):
lemon are from the twelfth century Egyptian work on lemon
is Drinking and by Jewish position IBN. June. It details
several medicinal uses and a process of preserving lemon with salt,
and this is around the same time a drink similar
to lemonade was gaining popularity in the area. And then
(25:19):
Christopher Columbus, yes, that guy, brought lemon seeds with him
to the Americas. In the late fourteen hundreds, the Spanish
planted lemon trees in California and Florida and the fifteen hundreds.
During Europe's Middle Ages and the Renaissance, lemons were sort
of reintroduced through imports and growing trade and increasing trade routes.
(25:43):
Lemons still weren't cheap, though, so they remained out of
reach for many. The rich often grew lemons and greenhouses
if they had greenhouses. The situation didn't really change until
trade increased even further in the seventeenth century. Till this time,
lemons often appeared in Dutch still life paintings as a symbol.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah yeah, yeah, they show up in so many still
lifes and like dinner scenes and market scenes. I mean,
you know, like, ay, they're they're pretty and and visually
striking in in terms of like the color wheel coordination
with other common colors that you're going to be using,
but also right might have been used to symbolize like
(26:28):
bitter sweet emotions because they're they're they're rad but also sour,
you know, so like so like a kind of souring
love maybe or or like or like an ephemeral opulence. Yeah,
this could also be a side quest.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
It could be, and it should be. We still have
our food poetry, but food art would also be a fun.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, And I would love to get
because I this is you know, like like I have
a tiny bit of art history in my background, but
I would love to get a real expert on that'd
be so cool.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Oh that would be amazing. Yes, well again for the future,
and also yes again see our lemonade episode. And I
swear this is related. It's going to sound like it's
not at first, but it is. But as the bubonic
(27:25):
plague was devastating Europe, it seemed like Paris was somehow spared.
They weren't getting it as hard, and people nowadays theorize
it had to do with lemonade. So this drink started
taking off in Europe in the mid sixteen hundreds, particularly
in Paris, where lemon nadiers would sell their lemonade from
(27:46):
tanks on their backs, and it was such a popular
drink that there was just a lot of lemon and
lemon peels around and the trash and the river and
the gutters, and the peels contain lemonine, which naturally kills
fleas in their larvae, So the rats were eating the
peels and thus killing the fleas in the larvae, and
(28:10):
that slowed the spread of the bubonic plague, as the
theory goes, which is amazing. That's wild.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Lemonade was just so popular that they couldn't get the plague.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yes, yes, drink more lemonade. It kind of related. This
is not the only health instance where lemonade has been
something of significance. So I know we've talked about this before,
but after running an experiment, British doctor James Linde published
(28:44):
his work Treatise of the Scurvy in seventeen fifty three,
and we've discussed this so many times. Scurvy was a
huge problem at this point, and Lynn's study found that
citrus helped cure it and pretty quickly. However, it took
people a while to take the research to heart, and
it wasn't until seventeen ninety five that compulsory lemon Jewish
(29:07):
rations were provided to British sailors. Later, the lemon juice
was swapped out for lime juice, which was cheaper for
them at the time. Royal Navy ships were issued one
point six million gallons of lemon juice from seventeen ninety
five to eighteen fourteen. Yeah, this initiative was hugely successful.
(29:31):
Cases of scurvy reported at the Royal Navy Hospital went
from fifteen hundred to just two whoa. Yeah. Historians speculate
that this in part allowed for the British Navy to
defeat Napoleon, since they were able to maintain their coastal plockade. Yeah,
(29:53):
and that's why a lot of our Cocktail Hour episodes
come up with this is because these lemon slash lime
rations gets introduced and then it's like, well, let's put
it in our whiskey, or let's put it in our
you know what have you? Yes, And speaking of when
scurvy was on the rise in California, amongst miners. During
(30:15):
the California Gold Rush, more lemon trees were planted to
combat the problem. In eighteen ninety six, a massive freeze
devastated to Florida's lemon trees, and it wasn't until the
nineteen fifties that people attempted growing them again on a
larger scale. And here's a fun thing I totally forgot
(30:36):
until I was researching this brief note on invisible ink. Yes, yes, Yes.
Records indicate the use of the first invisible ink goes
back to the fifth century. By the ninth century, Arabs
were making an invisible ink mixture of olive oil, egg yolks,
(30:58):
bitter apple and lemon skipping ahead. Lemon juice was a
popular invisible ink in Italy during the Renaissance. It was
also the preferred invisible ink used by spies during the
American Revolution, the American Civil War, and the Two World Wars.
The British apprehended a group of German lemon juice spies,
(31:20):
as they were called. A lemon was used in a
trial against one of those spies and is allegedly still
available to see at the British National Archives. Listeners, please
write and I've heard it's like like blackened and small.
Oh my gosh, I totally forgot about this. I used
(31:42):
to do this as a kid.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yeah, sure, gosh, that's so cool. Well ostensibly a food show.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
The development of specialized varieties and advances in farming technology
during the late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds led
to the boom in lemon availability that we see today
and is sort of where we got the concept of
like of like a lemon in your water being sort
of a fancy thing to it, kind of being almost
(32:16):
overdone to the point where people are like, please, no
lemon in my water. Don't need it, don't want it.
I care not for fanciness. Yeah, or they just don't
like the taste. Yeah, whatever you want.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Yeah, it's true. It's true. I do love it. But
it was something that like my mom imparted to me.
But even so, I don't do it all the time,
but when I do it, I'm like, wow, it's so good.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
For sure, it's a way I can trick myself into
drinking water, so that in bubble water, I thank you
for hydrating me.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yes, well, as we said, this is so many side
quests we have in listeners if you want to add
in to the side quest, please do, or if you
have any thoughts or inside knowledge about anything that we
(33:19):
talked about today or anything we missed.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Oh my goodness, yes, yes, please please write in. We
do already have some listener mail for you and we
are going to get into that as soon as we
get back from one more quick break for a word
from our.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you,
and we're back with the snow.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Sour. I was telling Lauren before this, I used to
be quite a food challenge aficionado. I would take on
a lot of food challenges and one of them was
lemon warheads, which was the sourest of the warheads, and
(34:15):
we would see who could put in the most warheads.
And my record is thirty eight.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
I was thirty eight in your mouth at the same time.
At the same time, yes, I was the winner, I
would hope. So, I mean, who's to say, how are
we defining winning.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Point? We question that question. Yeah, but at the time
I felt very I felt like a winner until later
when my I couldn't eat anything because everything just burnt.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Fun fun, Yeah, I love it. Oh, stunt candy, what
an interesting category. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Annie brought up lemonheads and I was like, oh, yeah,
I've never really been into hard candies because they always
just kind of hurt my mouth. But yeah, and then
she came out with this thirty eight lemonheads let lemon
warheads fact, and I was like, oh, well.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Yeah, I wasn't into hard candy either. I was into
the veane.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
You were into showing all of those other suckers, that's right.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yeah, oh god, oh my dear. Well, anyway, I wrote,
I had never heard of Atlantic halibut being different, so
I learned something new again. Halibut is a great fish,
and they are a tough fish to catch. I did
go halbut fishing in nineteen ninety nine. I managed to
(35:59):
catch sixty six pounder. It took about thirty to forty
minutes of constant reeling before we finally got it in
the boat. So yes, Annie, halibut fishing is tough, thank you.
I had it processed and flash frozen and shipped to
me and my uncle's I was fishing with, and it
was great. Recipe wise, it is so versatile. But one
(36:22):
thing I remember, which our boat Captain Tata's very simple greenleaflottus, halibut, butter,
lemon salt. Cut the halibit into one inch cubes, Place
in a leaf, small pat of butter, a little lemon juice,
pinch of salt, Wrap and stick a toothpick through. Toss
on a grill for a couple of minutes, pull off
and open up and wow, so simple, but so lovely.
(36:46):
And then there's just so much to say about pickles
and so many varieties. I love different pickles for different things.
On a nice hand sandwich, I think bread and butter
hit perfectly on a burger. If you get really crisp
dial chips, then yes, every pickle has a place.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
True, True, it's true.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Yeah, I have been, like I said when we reran
that classic, I'm not I love pickles, but I'm not
like normally a pickle person. I would say, but I
have a pickle craving. I don't know what's going on.
I talked about how I used to drink pickle juice
when I was a kid in that episode, so maybe
there's some deficienccene. I don't know what's going on, but
(37:36):
I really want some good pickle.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Maybe it's that scurvy thing your your body is crying out.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yeah me, Oh no, I do like how your halibut recipe,
which sounds very lovely and it is very simple, includes
lemon butter salt.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
I feel like it's a very go to for me, Like,
oh yeah, that's a simple and to make pretty much
everything delicious. Yeah, yes, yeah, yes, thirty to forty minutes
of constant reeling. I my fishing days were like I
(38:16):
would get tired out after ten minutes.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
But I do I appreciate.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Oh wow, yeah, yeah, I've never I've never really been
fishing or I went like once with my grandfather when
I was like five, so I you know, I remember
being there. I at the very least remember the photograph
of the event. But right, but yeah, yeah, no, I
(38:41):
want to go fishing. Heck, I would start with less
than a sixty six pound down.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
But I feel like every time I've taken a friend fishing,
they've left and felt bad about them. No.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
No, it's difficult.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Well because when you catch the fish and then you're
like are we going to eat it? And a lot
of times it's like no, it's too small. You have
to throw it back, and.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yeah, you feel bad for the fish and like, yeah,
yeah anyway, goodness, yeah okay, Bart wrote, I really enjoyed
the recent all spice episode, and it reminded me of
my own total misunderstanding about the spice when I was
(39:26):
much earlier in my cooking adventure. For years, it sat
on my spice rack next to the Chinese five spice
and was equally as unused. I assumed both were spice mixes.
I thought it was a mix of all the important spices,
but it's actually a spice that goes on all meat
I eat. It's not all the spices, but a spice
for all things. And now that I understand what it is,
(39:48):
I used it a lot, both in savory and sweet dishes.
It's great in anything with baked apples, and it adds
a nice flavor to sweet roasted pineapple desserts, especially when
paired with sweet cinnamon. First savory food, I obviously use
it in my jerk inspired marinades, but it's also an
important ingredient in my honey cinnamon roasted sweet potatoes and
my spiced apple sauce for serving with spicy pork dishes
(40:11):
like my whisky coke pork with tabasco. In the autumn,
I also add it to spiced pumpkin dishes, and I
use it to season savory seeded pineapple rings for topping
seared marinated chicken, turkey breast, or pork chops. If you
want to start using allspice more, my advice is that
it will work well in anything with cinnamon or nutmeg
in it. Already. Who okay a, that was like nineteen
(40:36):
cravings in a row. Yes, that's amazing. Whiskey coke pork
with tabasco sounds like a terrific thing. Yes, also like
for sweet potato. Absolutely, I cannot have pineapple, but Annie,
I want you to start using allspice in all of
(40:58):
your pineapple preparations.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Okay, I like this. I I've actually been looking for
new recipes, so send me. If you have the time
and inspiration, please send me new recipes because I I've
gotten a bit of a ret lately. I'm just eating
(41:23):
like ramen, which ramen is amazing.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Oh yeah, absolutely, but I should probably branch out things.
Yeah that's probably gonna for you.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Yeah, definitely. So I do love when we hear from
listeners and I'm like, oh, that sounds I should try that.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Yeah okay, yeah, yeah, so we really appreciate that. Yes,
oh my goodness, yes, yes every time. We appreciate people
writing in. Thanks so much to these listeners for writing in.
If you would like to write to us, you can
Our email is hello at savorpod dot com. We're also
on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
(42:03):
and Instagram at saver pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Save is production of iHeartRadio. For more
podcasts my heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks us always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Savor production for iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm Annie Res and I'm Moren vogel Baum, and today
we have an episode for you about lemons.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yes, I'm already nervous.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
It's an overwhelming topic.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Yeah, it is. It is. Was there any reason it
was on your mind? Oh?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
It's been on our list for since the beginning, and
I this is the year of like, let's do the
overwhelming topics. So here, here we are, Yeah, here we are.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
It was definitely an overwhelming topic. It was intimidating, and
I kept getting tempted by a bunch of rabbit holes
because there's so much with lemon. There's like so many
specific desserts and so many specific savory applications and just
(01:07):
cultural notes.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah, yeah, a lot of weird pop culture notes in
here that we actually didn't really go into basically at all.
This will have to be side quests for future days.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yes, it definitely will. Because we were talking off mic
before this about just memories that we have with lemon
in pop culture that are bizarre and we don't know
the answer to at this current moment. If anybody remembers, fine,
(01:44):
then maybe you'll know what we're talking.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
About Yeah, there was a whole thing with people like
spitting out lemons or pretending to on vine, which is
a thing that I hadn't even remembered existed until you
brought it up before we started recording.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
So I went on a deep dive when they were like,
the government might ban TikTok, and I was like, remember
vine though. Anyway, I love lemon. I'm a big like
a lemon in savory instances. I add it to a
(02:23):
bunch of like vegetables and meats. I also love just
adding it to water. That's a big thing my mom
did same. I've mentioned before. I have a post it.
I don't know if that's quite what you'd call it,
but I have the equivalent of a post it on
my phone where I just keep track of people's favorite desserts,
(02:45):
and I have on there for you, Lauren, lemon lemon dessert.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Lemon desserts are definitely one of my favorite things. I
also dislike food. I mean, it's difficult for me to
have favorites because they're all sort of favorite, you know,
but I do. I also, yep, am just very fond
of a lemon, and yeah, I had to really like
pair back on what I could make notes on for today,
(03:15):
because right, like, I just have so many like favorite
lemon things. My mom used to make candied lemon and
orange peel for Christmas for her father every year, which
was a huge pain in the rear, but like so tasty,
so tasty. One of my favorite weird desserts to bring
(03:36):
to events is called a shaker lemon pie. It's made
with whole lemons sliced very thin and then macerated in
sugar and then so the whole lemon peel and pitthan
all is just in these little ribbons in the in
the pie with a nice like kind of like egg
bas so or like lemon meringue or I don't know,
all of them, all of them nice lemon cakes. I
(03:57):
agree with sans of stark. Yeah, yeah, I like them.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I like a really good thin cut of lemon too.
I have some, like some of my favorite sushi rolls have.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
A really ooh yeah, yeah, totally. It's all good to write,
just a squeeze over the top or grate some of
the zest into literally everything, or uugh.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Put it in your like coffee or tea. And I
know some people are like coffee, but yes, I put
it in my coffee.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
A little bit of lemon zest in an espresso is
one of my very favorite things.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
It's really good. So yes, it can go. You can
see all of the rabbit holes and pasts. We had
to be like not today, Yeah, vigilant, Yeah, yes, Otherwise.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
We wouldn't be recording this right now because we would
still be writing things about lemons.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, yes, indeed, And we have talked about lemons several
times before. Sure, we have talked about them a lot
in several Cocktail Hours, which we'll touch on in this episode. Lemonade,
which I forgot we did. Oh that's a great one. Yeah,
oh yeah, it's fantastic. I forgot how wild that one is. Oranges, lime, grapefruit,
(05:20):
citrus in general. Yeah, yeah, yeah, lemon comes up a lot,
it does, it does. But I guess this brings us
to our question, sure, lemon, what is it?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Well? Lemons are types of smallish, say like palm sized
or smaller citrus fruits that come in a number of varieties,
but tend to have like a juicy, pale yellow pulp
surrounded by a thick layer of spongy and bitter white
pif encased in a protective, like thin but tough, bright
yellow rind that contains a lot of fragrant oil. They're
(06:00):
shaped like a little oval that's pinched at both ends.
And yeah, the pulp is like tart, sweet and puckery, astringent,
and a little floral. The rind is similar, but more
floral and sort of bitter. The pit is very bitter
and is often discarded. And lemons are used right and
just all kinds of things sweet and savory food and
drinks to bring a sort of brightness in on their own.
(06:23):
Their juice and or rind might feature in cakes or
sorbets or candies or sweetened lemonade. They'll often add a
punch of tartness or bitterness to other fruits and pie
and jam type situations. They can be added to salty
or savory preserves. They can be squeezed over a finished
savory dish to make it pop, or you can grate
(06:43):
the rind over a dish to add depth. They mix
really well with various types of flavors and cocktails and
baked goods and creamy dishes. They just taste bright and
sunny and yellow. They're like if you just captured a
crayon sunbeam in a juicy living jewel. Yes, yeah, yes.
(07:08):
Lemons grow on a type of small tropical to subtropical
evergreen tree that grows to about a ten to twenty
feet in height that's about three to six meters, with
thorns on the branches. I don't know if you ever
knew that lemons and limes are definitely thorny and these
kind of oblong, pointy green leaves. They can flower and
fruit year round, but are typically most productive in the
late winter and sometimes early summer in climates that have
(07:30):
cool summers. They cannot stand below freezing temperatures. When they
do flower, they bloom with these pretty and fragrant white
or like white to purple flowers that, if pollinated, will
develop into this fruit fruit that's green at first, but
as it ripens will go yellow to golden and reach
like two to five inches long that's about five to
(07:50):
twelve centimeters. Different varieties can have a rind that's smooth
to pebbled, thicker or thinner, with more or less pith underneath,
and the flesh inside is made up of many tiny vesicles,
meaning sort of like individually wrapped drops of juice, each
inside their own tear drop shaped membrane. Those vesicles are
(08:12):
further wrapped in larger segments of membrane like a juicy
three D pie. Yeah, the juice can be pale yellow
to gold to kind of pinkish in color, and each
segment may contain one or a few seeds. The whole
unit is just a really clever way of protecting the
fruit in the seeds. They are small enough that they're
(08:33):
not typically peeled and segmented the way that oranges or
grapefruits might be, but rather sliced into either rounds or wedges.
Any slices or gratings from the peel should be taken
before the fruit is cut, though, because that just makes
it a lot more structurally sound. Yeah and yeah, they
can be used in just about anything. The flavors are
(08:56):
delicate enough that in a lot of soups and stews
and sauces, like anything your cook for a while, the
juice or rind is usually added towards the end of
cooking or after cooking is finished. The rind is more
strongly flavored and can stand up to sweet or rich
flavors as well. Different types are harvested earlier or later
in development for different purposes. For fresh sale, the fruit
(09:18):
is often picked green and encoated with a thin protective
wax layer, and then allowed to ripen to maturity during
packing our storage. Lemons are also processed for their juice
and for their extracts like essential oils, citric acid, and
pectin for use in all kinds of food, cosmetic, household
and industrial products.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, yeah, well what about the nutrition by themselves?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Lemons are pretty good for you. You know, if you
actually eat those membranes and not just the juice, that's
a good punch of fiber. They've got a bunch of
micronutrients and yeah, you know, once you add them to
cake or you know, add a bunch of sugar and
(10:08):
vodka to them to make lemon cello. I can't make
you any promises about the nutritive qualities.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Which, yes, we've been teasing a lemon cello episode for
a while. That is not this episode.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
That is not this episode either now, although I heck
and love a lemon cello and I would love to
talk about it.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
I would as well. And we've gotten some great listener
mail about lemonchello. Oh yeah, so keep that coming. Well,
that's for another time today we do have some numbers
for you.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
We do. Okay, A mature lemon tree can produce around
one hundred to two hundred pounds of fruit per year.
That's about forty five to ninety kilos. That's a bunch
of lemons. Global lemon production averages around five point seven
million tons a year as of like the twenty teens.
(11:04):
Of that, about three point six million tons we're being
sold fresh for consumption. That's about three kilos of lemons
per human person per year. What I think. I didn't
check that math, So if it's really off, just don't
(11:24):
tell me. Just let it sit and let the website
that I got it from be wrong.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Go after them, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, that's the lemonage dot com. Okay, it's a Spanish
marketing group for lemons.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
I'm willing to roll with it for today. All right.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I'm pretty sure that Mexico and Argentina produce the most
lemons for fresh consumption and for processing respectively. Spain does
lead European production at about a million tons a year. Also,
I read that the production area, like the hectorage for lemons,
has just about doubled in the past twenty years, leading
(12:16):
to a bit of an overproduction crisis versus like the
market demand. So that's a situation to watch in the future.
All right, a few world records for you. The heaviest
lemon on record was grown in two thousand and three
in Israel. It weighed five point three kilos. That's like
(12:40):
eleven point six pounds. That's bigger than my cat. It
was thirty five centimeters long with a circumference of seventy
four centimeters that's fourteen by twenty nine inches. That's a
(13:01):
lemon bigger than your head.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Wow. I have a lot of questions, honestly, but I
accept this happened. I'm just curious in many ways as
to how.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I yep, I couldn't tell you. I couldn't tell you
right now. It did also, interestingly grow alongside a very
slightly smaller sibling, so yeah, the photos are great. Lemons
also hold the record for the highest voltage created via
(13:43):
a fruit based battery. Okay, I don't remember, I didn't
write down. Oh I think this was in twenty twenty one. Okay,
So the Royal Society of Chemistry worked with the University
of Bath to create a battery using two nine hundred
and twenty three lemons, with which they produced two three
(14:08):
hundred and eight vaults of charge, enough to launch an
electric go kart. The lemons were then sent to a
processor that creates biogas from food wastes. So it was
really overall a very energy productive batch of lemonss.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Wow, yeah at white places.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah yeah, I wasn't expecting me neither, but you're right,
very productive limits yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Lastly, the fastest time to peel and eat a lemon
was achieved with multiple question marks in twenty ten in
New York City at eight point two five seconds.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I mean, it's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I don't think I could do it that fast, so
here why.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
I definitely could it? Absolutely not. I'm a borrible feeling.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Me too too. Oh okay, moving on to lemon festivals.
There are many lemon festivals. Here's a small spattering. Okay,
we just missed one in Upland, California in mid June.
That's in its twenty seventh year. They featured Eve Sex
as a musical guest this year. They also have an
(15:34):
idle contest for solo vocalists and a mechanical bull riding contest,
among many other activities. There's one in Chula Vista, California.
It's also in its twenty seventh year. It's happening August seventeenth,
so you've still got time to plan. If you're in
like the San Diego area. Their tagline is Eat, Drink
and be zesty. There's a cooking competition, you know, food
(16:00):
and drinking, craft vendors, music, and I quote photo opportunities
with the beloved Tarty, the Lemon Tarty, the lemon being
their mascot, which I had a surprisingly difficult time finding
photographs of. Oh that's I need y'all, I need you
(16:23):
all to answer this call. They no longer really the
area no longer really has that many lemons, but in
the early nineteen hundreds, like the town was mostly lemon groves,
so it's sort of been celebration of that. Another and oh,
I didn't look up how to say this. Golita Goletta, California,
(16:46):
also celebrates its area's agricultural history of booming lemon orchards
through the first half of the twentieth century with a festival.
It's in its thirtieth iteration this year in late September,
so you've also got time. There are the two things
that I saw mostly are car shows and pie eating contests,
(17:08):
and the photos of the pie eating contests that I
saw all looked to me like lemon merangue, but it's
hard for me to say.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah yeah again right in yes please.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
There's one in Monte Rosso, Italy that happens every day,
so we're way late on that one. There are tours
through the local orchards and lots of food and drink,
and awards for the biggest lemon grown that year and
also the best decorated window in town. This seems like
a beautiful, charming seaside event, but perhaps the most spectacular
(17:49):
festival for lemons is La Fete Dusitron in menton East
Ways along the coast of the French Riviera, which had
its ninety first year this February. There is a parade
with floats decorated in lemons and oranges sort of like beadwork,
and in fact a fruit sculpture exhibit with these like
(18:13):
lemon and orange beadwork pieces, by which I mean the
lemons and oranges are the beads that are up to
ten meters tall that's about thirty feet, incorporating some fifteen
tons of fruit each picture like an Eiffel Tower of
(18:33):
Citrus that's rigged with fireworks at the top, castles and
bell towers and trains and dragons and lions and whales
made of lemons and oranges. There's a theme every year
that all of the artists follow. And I read that
(18:56):
they have a mascot too one John Lemon, Himme, Lemon, heme.
I don't know, French. I'm sorry, And I furthermore couldn't
find anything else about this.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Oh wow. Once again, listeners, we're counting on you because
I'm just building an image in my head and I
don't think it's correct. So I need you to step in.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah yeah, uh and right, and you'll know how much
we like a food mascot. So yes, So this is
all critical, is very very important.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
I also have to say I never expected Eve six
to come up in any episode.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah yeah, but here we are, here, we are yeah lemons, lemons. Yeah.
They were any other musical acts advertised. I just that one.
I'm dating myself here, but like that one was the
one that absolutely stood out to me.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Well, it does have the opening line of their very
popular song I would choke on the runs. I you know,
I feel like they put some thought into asking six.
I could be wrong. This is a it's not like
one of our go to karaoke songs. But we do
(20:32):
sing yeah eve six, Yes, we do sing Eve six
at karaoke sometimes. So this is very funny and I
did not expect it.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So, as as always, you never know where the reading
is going to take you.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
No, you do not know. Well, the history is also
a pretty wild ride.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Oh yeah, oh yep hmm, And we are going to
get into that as soon as we get into a
quick break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
And we're back.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Okay. So, according to fairly recent DNA analysis, scientists and
researchers believe that the first citrus trees traced back eight
million years ago to the southeast Himalayas. It's quite a story,
but as the climate changed, a process that took millions
(21:48):
of years, the trees were able to spread throughout the
region and then around the world, and over time, one
branch of these trees eventually evolved into lemon trees. How
as I was reading this, I found even more recent
research out of twenty twenty three that pinpoints the origin
of these trees. Are their precursors specifically to the Indian
(22:13):
subcontinent twenty five million years ago, which then further diversified
and evolved in south central China eight million years ago.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Okay, okay, Yeah, And a.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Large part of this diversification revolved around the amount of
citric acid and the fruits, which is really important when
it comes to flavor. So the more citric acid, the
more sour. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah. Citric acid, by the way, is one of those
things that's going to have to be an entirely different
episode because it's a very large topic.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yes, yes it is. But all that to say, it's
been very difficult for researchers to pin down the history
of citrus and lemons, and the early history of human
consumption of lemons is hard to trek down, in part
because the records are sparse, and the records that we
(23:04):
do have aren't always clear about the citrus fruit in question. Yeah.
Some like to make a distinction between the citron the
early quote original women and the women we know today,
and some don't make that distinction. So it's a bit
of a mess yep mysteries history. We do know the
(23:27):
citron slash early lemon traveled along trade routes to places
like ancient Rome and the Mediterranean by two hundred CE,
and that they were being cultivated in modern day Egypt
and Iran by at least seven hundred CE. Some sources
go back way earlier, though, and argue that the first
written reference to women is in a Hindu religious text
(23:49):
from eight hundred BCE, and that it was in Persia
by six hundred BCE, and Alexander the Great introduced it
to the Mediterranean and hundred BC, so way earlier. Whatever
the case, it's possible that lemons were being used for
fragrance at the time, amongst other things, since they were
(24:12):
expensive and rare in ancient Rome, they were signs of
wealth and status, and likely used more ornamentally for their
scent or medicinally, and to that end, according to a
few sources, I found the Persians prized lemons because lemon
trees require a lot of water, they developed irrigation techniques
(24:33):
to grow them. Many argue the first written references actually
in a farming treatise written by Arabs scholar Custos Alromy
And I apologize if I got that wrong. I tried
to find it and I could not, but correct me.
Please Some of the first recipes we know of utilizing
(24:55):
lemon are from the twelfth century Egyptian work on lemon
is Drinking and by Jewish position IBN. June. It details
several medicinal uses and a process of preserving lemon with salt,
and this is around the same time a drink similar
to lemonade was gaining popularity in the area. And then
(25:19):
Christopher Columbus, yes, that guy, brought lemon seeds with him
to the Americas. In the late fourteen hundreds, the Spanish
planted lemon trees in California and Florida and the fifteen hundreds.
During Europe's Middle Ages and the Renaissance, lemons were sort
of reintroduced through imports and growing trade and increasing trade routes.
(25:43):
Lemons still weren't cheap, though, so they remained out of
reach for many. The rich often grew lemons and greenhouses
if they had greenhouses. The situation didn't really change until
trade increased even further in the seventeenth century. Till this time,
lemons often appeared in Dutch still life paintings as a symbol.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah yeah, yeah, they show up in so many still
lifes and like dinner scenes and market scenes. I mean,
you know, like, ay, they're they're pretty and and visually
striking in in terms of like the color wheel coordination
with other common colors that you're going to be using,
but also right might have been used to symbolize like
(26:28):
bitter sweet emotions because they're they're they're rad but also sour,
you know, so like so like a kind of souring
love maybe or or like or like an ephemeral opulence. Yeah,
this could also be a side quest.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
It could be, and it should be. We still have
our food poetry, but food art would also be a fun.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, And I would love to get
because I this is you know, like like I have
a tiny bit of art history in my background, but
I would love to get a real expert on that'd
be so cool.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Oh that would be amazing. Yes, well again for the future,
and also yes again see our lemonade episode. And I
swear this is related. It's going to sound like it's
not at first, but it is. But as the bubonic
(27:25):
plague was devastating Europe, it seemed like Paris was somehow spared.
They weren't getting it as hard, and people nowadays theorize
it had to do with lemonade. So this drink started
taking off in Europe in the mid sixteen hundreds, particularly
in Paris, where lemon nadiers would sell their lemonade from
(27:46):
tanks on their backs, and it was such a popular
drink that there was just a lot of lemon and
lemon peels around and the trash and the river and
the gutters, and the peels contain lemonine, which naturally kills
fleas in their larvae, So the rats were eating the
peels and thus killing the fleas in the larvae, and
(28:10):
that slowed the spread of the bubonic plague, as the
theory goes, which is amazing. That's wild.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Lemonade was just so popular that they couldn't get the plague.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yes, yes, drink more lemonade. It kind of related. This
is not the only health instance where lemonade has been
something of significance. So I know we've talked about this before,
but after running an experiment, British doctor James Linde published
(28:44):
his work Treatise of the Scurvy in seventeen fifty three,
and we've discussed this so many times. Scurvy was a
huge problem at this point, and Lynn's study found that
citrus helped cure it and pretty quickly. However, it took
people a while to take the research to heart, and
it wasn't until seventeen ninety five that compulsory lemon Jewish
(29:07):
rations were provided to British sailors. Later, the lemon juice
was swapped out for lime juice, which was cheaper for
them at the time. Royal Navy ships were issued one
point six million gallons of lemon juice from seventeen ninety
five to eighteen fourteen. Yeah, this initiative was hugely successful.
(29:31):
Cases of scurvy reported at the Royal Navy Hospital went
from fifteen hundred to just two whoa. Yeah. Historians speculate
that this in part allowed for the British Navy to
defeat Napoleon, since they were able to maintain their coastal plockade. Yeah,
(29:53):
and that's why a lot of our Cocktail Hour episodes
come up with this is because these lemon slash lime
rations gets introduced and then it's like, well, let's put
it in our whiskey, or let's put it in our
you know what have you? Yes, And speaking of when
scurvy was on the rise in California, amongst miners. During
(30:15):
the California Gold Rush, more lemon trees were planted to
combat the problem. In eighteen ninety six, a massive freeze
devastated to Florida's lemon trees, and it wasn't until the
nineteen fifties that people attempted growing them again on a
larger scale. And here's a fun thing I totally forgot
(30:36):
until I was researching this brief note on invisible ink. Yes, yes, Yes.
Records indicate the use of the first invisible ink goes
back to the fifth century. By the ninth century, Arabs
were making an invisible ink mixture of olive oil, egg yolks,
(30:58):
bitter apple and lemon skipping ahead. Lemon juice was a
popular invisible ink in Italy during the Renaissance. It was
also the preferred invisible ink used by spies during the
American Revolution, the American Civil War, and the Two World Wars.
The British apprehended a group of German lemon juice spies,
(31:20):
as they were called. A lemon was used in a
trial against one of those spies and is allegedly still
available to see at the British National Archives. Listeners, please
write and I've heard it's like like blackened and small.
Oh my gosh, I totally forgot about this. I used
(31:42):
to do this as a kid.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yeah, sure, gosh, that's so cool. Well ostensibly a food show.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
The development of specialized varieties and advances in farming technology
during the late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds led
to the boom in lemon availability that we see today
and is sort of where we got the concept of
like of like a lemon in your water being sort
of a fancy thing to it, kind of being almost
(32:16):
overdone to the point where people are like, please, no
lemon in my water. Don't need it, don't want it.
I care not for fanciness. Yeah, or they just don't
like the taste. Yeah, whatever you want.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Yeah, it's true. It's true. I do love it. But
it was something that like my mom imparted to me.
But even so, I don't do it all the time,
but when I do it, I'm like, wow, it's so good.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
For sure, it's a way I can trick myself into
drinking water, so that in bubble water, I thank you
for hydrating me.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yes, well, as we said, this is so many side
quests we have in listeners if you want to add
in to the side quest, please do, or if you
have any thoughts or inside knowledge about anything that we
(33:19):
talked about today or anything we missed.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Oh my goodness, yes, yes, please please write in. We
do already have some listener mail for you and we
are going to get into that as soon as we
get back from one more quick break for a word
from our.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you,
and we're back with the snow.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Sour. I was telling Lauren before this, I used to
be quite a food challenge aficionado. I would take on
a lot of food challenges and one of them was
lemon warheads, which was the sourest of the warheads, and
(34:15):
we would see who could put in the most warheads.
And my record is thirty eight.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
I was thirty eight in your mouth at the same time.
At the same time, yes, I was the winner, I
would hope. So, I mean, who's to say, how are
we defining winning.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Point? We question that question. Yeah, but at the time
I felt very I felt like a winner until later
when my I couldn't eat anything because everything just burnt.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Fun fun, Yeah, I love it. Oh, stunt candy, what
an interesting category. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Annie brought up lemonheads and I was like, oh, yeah,
I've never really been into hard candies because they always
just kind of hurt my mouth. But yeah, and then
she came out with this thirty eight lemonheads let lemon
warheads fact, and I was like, oh, well.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Yeah, I wasn't into hard candy either. I was into
the veane.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
You were into showing all of those other suckers, that's right.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yeah, oh god, oh my dear. Well, anyway, I wrote,
I had never heard of Atlantic halibut being different, so
I learned something new again. Halibut is a great fish,
and they are a tough fish to catch. I did
go halbut fishing in nineteen ninety nine. I managed to
(35:59):
catch sixty six pounder. It took about thirty to forty
minutes of constant reeling before we finally got it in
the boat. So yes, Annie, halibut fishing is tough, thank you.
I had it processed and flash frozen and shipped to
me and my uncle's I was fishing with, and it
was great. Recipe wise, it is so versatile. But one
(36:22):
thing I remember, which our boat Captain Tata's very simple greenleaflottus, halibut, butter,
lemon salt. Cut the halibit into one inch cubes, Place
in a leaf, small pat of butter, a little lemon juice,
pinch of salt, Wrap and stick a toothpick through. Toss
on a grill for a couple of minutes, pull off
and open up and wow, so simple, but so lovely.
(36:46):
And then there's just so much to say about pickles
and so many varieties. I love different pickles for different things.
On a nice hand sandwich, I think bread and butter
hit perfectly on a burger. If you get really crisp
dial chips, then yes, every pickle has a place.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
True, True, it's true.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Yeah, I have been, like I said when we reran
that classic, I'm not I love pickles, but I'm not
like normally a pickle person. I would say, but I
have a pickle craving. I don't know what's going on.
I talked about how I used to drink pickle juice
when I was a kid in that episode, so maybe
there's some deficienccene. I don't know what's going on, but
(37:36):
I really want some good pickle.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Maybe it's that scurvy thing your your body is crying out.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yeah me, Oh no, I do like how your halibut recipe,
which sounds very lovely and it is very simple, includes
lemon butter salt.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
I feel like it's a very go to for me, Like,
oh yeah, that's a simple and to make pretty much
everything delicious. Yeah, yes, yeah, yes, thirty to forty minutes
of constant reeling. I my fishing days were like I
(38:16):
would get tired out after ten minutes.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
But I do I appreciate.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Oh wow, yeah, yeah, I've never I've never really been
fishing or I went like once with my grandfather when
I was like five, so I you know, I remember
being there. I at the very least remember the photograph
of the event. But right, but yeah, yeah, no, I
(38:41):
want to go fishing. Heck, I would start with less
than a sixty six pound down.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
But I feel like every time I've taken a friend fishing,
they've left and felt bad about them. No.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
No, it's difficult.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Well because when you catch the fish and then you're
like are we going to eat it? And a lot
of times it's like no, it's too small. You have
to throw it back, and.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yeah, you feel bad for the fish and like, yeah,
yeah anyway, goodness, yeah okay, Bart wrote, I really enjoyed
the recent all spice episode, and it reminded me of
my own total misunderstanding about the spice when I was
(39:26):
much earlier in my cooking adventure. For years, it sat
on my spice rack next to the Chinese five spice
and was equally as unused. I assumed both were spice mixes.
I thought it was a mix of all the important spices,
but it's actually a spice that goes on all meat
I eat. It's not all the spices, but a spice
for all things. And now that I understand what it is,
(39:48):
I used it a lot, both in savory and sweet dishes.
It's great in anything with baked apples, and it adds
a nice flavor to sweet roasted pineapple desserts, especially when
paired with sweet cinnamon. First savory food, I obviously use
it in my jerk inspired marinades, but it's also an
important ingredient in my honey cinnamon roasted sweet potatoes and
my spiced apple sauce for serving with spicy pork dishes
(40:11):
like my whisky coke pork with tabasco. In the autumn,
I also add it to spiced pumpkin dishes, and I
use it to season savory seeded pineapple rings for topping
seared marinated chicken, turkey breast, or pork chops. If you
want to start using allspice more, my advice is that
it will work well in anything with cinnamon or nutmeg
in it. Already. Who okay a, that was like nineteen
(40:36):
cravings in a row. Yes, that's amazing. Whiskey coke pork
with tabasco sounds like a terrific thing. Yes, also like
for sweet potato. Absolutely, I cannot have pineapple, but Annie,
I want you to start using allspice in all of
(40:58):
your pineapple preparations.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Okay, I like this. I I've actually been looking for
new recipes, so send me. If you have the time
and inspiration, please send me new recipes because I I've
gotten a bit of a ret lately. I'm just eating
(41:23):
like ramen, which ramen is amazing.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Oh yeah, absolutely, but I should probably branch out things.
Yeah that's probably gonna for you.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Yeah, definitely. So I do love when we hear from
listeners and I'm like, oh, that sounds I should try that.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Yeah okay, yeah, yeah, so we really appreciate that. Yes,
oh my goodness, yes, yes every time. We appreciate people
writing in. Thanks so much to these listeners for writing in.
If you would like to write to us, you can
Our email is hello at savorpod dot com. We're also
on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
(42:03):
and Instagram at saver pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Save is production of iHeartRadio. For more
podcasts my heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks us always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way.
Savor News
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Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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