November 8, 2023 • 29 mins
This aromatic sweetened bread welcomes celebrants both living and dead to the festivities of el Día de los Muertos. Anney and Lauren dig into the history and culture of pan de muerto.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reech.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And Unborn vocal Bum and today we have an episode
for you about pondom Morto Pandoo.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I had never heard of this. Oh really, yeah, no,
I know a lot of these episodes we're doing, we've
done around Dia Delos Mertos. I have been woefully ignorant,
so I was excited to learn about it. Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
It is super tasty, A favorite like seasonal holiday treat
of mine. And I we're lucky here in Atlanta to
have a really wide group of different immigrants from around
the world and a bunch of really great international markets
and so yeah, so there I miss living up on
(01:00):
Beauford Highway where I had like kind of immediate access
to stuff like this.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, which yeah, I mean I'm assuming
that's why this was on your mind.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
It is because, yes, yes, because Lda delis Morthos was
November first and second, and.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah, so here we are, here we are. You can
see our Marigold episode where we did talk about some
of the stuff that we're going to talk about in here.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, maybe kind of generally tortillas and tamalas.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Mm hmmm, any kind of bread related thing, I suppose.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Sure, yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, But I guess that brings
us to our question.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I guess it does, pond Demerto, what is it?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Well, Panda marto is a type of rich, soft, yeast
raised sweet bread. It's made with a fluffy white wheat
flour dense with a lot of egg and milk and butter,
sweetened with a little bit of granulated sugar in the
dough and more sprinkled over the crust, usually and flavored
warm and bright and floral, with orange blossom water and
(02:15):
often a bit of orange zest annis and or cinnamon.
It's shaped into round loaves or buns and decorated on
top with these kind of bulbous ropes of dough that
are meant to resemble crossed bones. And that is because
it is a traditional treat surrounding Elda delis Morthos, which
is a holiday celebrating loved ones who have died and
which incorporates a lot of skeletal imagery. It literally means
(02:40):
bread of the dead pandamorphos. Yes, and Dea delis Moorthos
is Day of the Dead. Sure, totally, here we go.
Yes and so yeah, so pandamortho is it's like a
dessert brioche or holla that reminds you that death is
part of life. Yeah, it's like it is fragrant and comforting,
(03:03):
like a warm, bright light in the dark, just welcoming
you home.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
I love that it's beautiful. Ah and okay.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I've seen a bunch of different recipes, a bunch of
different types of recipes for how to work the ingredients together,
But basically you're looking to make a really rich, fatty
moist dough with with stuff like milk, butter or lard,
and eggs, either all whole eggs or maybe plus some
extra yolks. You levi in it with friendly bread yeasts
(03:37):
which eat some of the sugars and the flour and
poop carbon dioxide, bubbles and flavors yeast food. You let
it rise, you punch it down, then shape your loaves
and let them rise again before baking to a fluffy,
golden brown. Once they're out of the oven, you might
glaze them with an egg or butter wash as a
glue and then sprinkle on granulated sugar like Glitter colored
(04:00):
are optional, Bright pink or red are popular. Depending on
the area that you're in, and the shape is said
to be symbolic, maybe symbolic of the mounded earth of
a grave with like bones peeking up out of it,
or maybe like the circle of life, or maybe the
tears that we shed for the dead, or the tears
(04:20):
that the dead shed for us. H yeah, or I'm
not sure. Or maybe a red or pink represents the
blood of the dead who died wounded. Other shapes can
be made with the bread. You can make it into
a doughnut shape or a doll shape, or like a
chubby little skeleton with slashes and pinches of dough for
(04:40):
the arms and legs and head. In parts of Wahaka,
you might add an edible painted face or skull onto
the finished bread. In other areas, motifs could involve flowers
or animals, real or mythical. You might make it into
the shape of a cross or an angel or braided bones.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
There are all.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Kinds of variations, and especially in flavoring, like how much
sugar do you use?
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Do you want? Just the orange.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Blossom water is and it's important to balance out. The
sweetness is orange zest. What really makes it shine is cinnamon,
the warming element that you need. I mean, do you
want to add chocolate chips? I cannot stop you, and
I would not. Furthermore, if you want to add other
herbs or spices like lavender or cardamom, maybe a filling
(05:30):
or a stuffing of cream, chocolate, guava paste, goat milk, caramel,
rice pudding, flyan ice cream. I've seen it topped with
sesame seeds or pumpkin seeds for like a less sweet,
more savory kind of take, or like going all in
with like a sweet white chocolate or dark chocolate, or
like sticky bunglaze.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah yeah, wow. And they're beautiful, Like a lot of
them are really pretty dello cats.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah yeah, I've really only had like the very basic kind.
But now I'm like, okay, need to find need to
find the door create some of these variants. Another variant.
It's not even it's not always a wheat flour dough.
Corn doughs can be used, and like these are a
lot of examples, but it's honestly just scratching the surface,
(06:19):
you know, Like, if there's one that is that is
precious to you, please write in.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yes, please write in pictures if you have those.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yes, yes, recipes, yes, all right. Fundamortho is mostly served
as like a snack surrounding lda delas mortos, maybe with
like a nice hot coffee or a hot chocolate. They
can also be incorporated into afrendas, which are sort of
shrines or altars to loved ones who have passed, and
(06:47):
which furthermore incorporate those loved ones favorite foods and drinks
along with you know, like photos, some marigolds, you know,
bright and fragrant, orange yellow, some sugar skulls, some some colabadas,
which are skeletons usually that are like doing stuff like
I don't know, like being a fireman or playing soccer.
I'm not sure, yeah, whatever they want to do. Candles, incense,
(07:10):
other decor a friend us are meant to remind you
of the deceased and what they loved in life and
to welcome them back to celebrate with you. Pendewathough is
traditionally made it home, but especially leading up to the holiday.
You can find it in bakeries and from street vendors
all around Mexico, where it is mostly from, and also
(07:33):
other places where the holiday is celebrated and or where
Mexican people have integrated.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yes, Wow. What about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Oh, there's it depends, but it's probably a treats are nice.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Treats are nice treats. You're nice. We don't have much
in the way for numbers for you, but we have one, yes,
one that I found, and I actually we saw a
lot of different versions of this number. So, okay, grain
of salt. But bakeries across Mexico prepare over four hundred
(08:09):
types of pandomerto during Lda de los Martos. So there's
a lot of different types, and there are a lot
of different like specific regional variations I found.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Oh oh absolutely, yeah, yeah, totally and right, Yeah, that
number was in nat GEO, so I have be sure
why not?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, most of them I found for less, and I'm
inclined to believe there are more actually, so yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah,
but to say, there are a lot of different numbers.
But that brings us to the history.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Oh yes, and we are going to get into that
as soon as we get back from a quick break
forward from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
And we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with a not so fun disclaimer. Yeah, but yes,
a lot of the language in resources I found around
this topic was slash is because some of them are
pretty recent, pretty offensive, and also very skewed, which we're
(09:21):
going to talk about. Oh yeah. Section that being said,
a lot of sources claim that this bread traces back
to the arrival of Spanish colonizers to what is now
Mexico and surrounding areas in the fifteen hundreds.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yes, okay, so when the Spanish showed up, the group
in power, the reigning power sure was perhaps what's least
confusingly known as the Triple Alliance, often called the Aztec Empire.
Aztec is actually a more modern term that got retroactively applied,
and it's been applied unevenly to different people's So yes,
(09:58):
I'm going to stick with the trip Alliance, referring to
the empire made up of these three city states in
what's now known as the Valley of Mexico.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Okay, Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Although there were a blend of people's and traditions in
the area, one of the big community festivals at the
time was this month long celebration of the Dead, which
happened in the ninth month of their calendar, right around
like late July early August aka harvest season, and various
pieces of this tradition stretch back like three thousand years,
(10:30):
but by this point a large part of it involved
honoring a goddess known as the Lady of the Dead
and the keeper of the underworld Miteka Suat who manawad
is not good. I apologize, I'm making efforts, but yeah.
So she and her husband were portrayed as having these
skeletal faces and is wearing necklaces of skulls and severed hands,
(10:54):
and there was dance and offerings and food all month long.
And you know, humans like bread. It's almost certain that
some kind of bread type product was part of these traditions.
There were definitely bread type offerings made to other gods
like the tech Titlan patron god of the sun and
(11:15):
of war, and also to spirits of the dead, like
those of women who had died in childbirth, perhaps especially
their first childbirth. However, okay, a few things. Wheat did
not exist in the area until colonization. Any bread offerings
at the time would have been flatbreads, including tortillas or
tamales made with amaranth or corn. Granulated sugar had not
(11:39):
reached the area either. Honey might have been used as
a sweetener. The Spanish were also the ones who brought oranges,
though those did catch on like particularly fast in the area.
But okay, so yes, that is the type of bread
that we would have been dealing with. Meanwhile, symbols used
for decorations of ritual breads sometimes included butterflies, which are
(12:00):
a fall seasonal thing in the area, because monarch butterflies
migrate south for the winter from like all the way
up through what's now Canada every fall. So some cultures,
especially up in the mountain forest areas of that part
of the world, have associated the return of the monarchs
with the harvest season, with the return of spirits of
the dead. You can still find a few butterfly symbols
(12:23):
floating around today. So yes, offerings of breads were a thing.
Pandamortos or any like direct corollary to it was probably
not a thing when the Spanish arrived. I say probably
because part of the problem in sussing out the pre
Hispanic history of traditions in this area is that a
(12:47):
lot of what has been told about it, like up
until very recently, has been superbiased Spanish colonist tellings or
straight up retcons of that history, which they basically did
as an excuse to take over. Like researchers are still
uncovering writings and artifacts and like figuring out what was
(13:10):
really going on before and when the Spanish showed.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Up, right, and when the Spanish showed up, they immediately
set about enforcing Christianity and erasing and were changing the traditions, beliefs,
and culture.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
One of the things that they did was they looked
at this seasonal fall festival and went, well, this isn't
going to do. So they tried to like reshape and
refit its traditions into existing Catholic holidays. For example, All
Saints Day and All Souls Day, which occur on November
first and November twod. All Saints Day remembers and honors
saints who are now in heaven, and All Souls Day
(13:48):
is the time to pray for souls of loved ones
who might be trapped in purgatory awaiting entrance into heaven.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
And Pontemrtos was part of all of this. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
There they were pretty popularly told I would call them
myths that Pandamortos was created as a substitution for barbaric rituals.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, that it represented the still beating hearts and blood
of virgins or in some accounts a specific princess as
mentioned sacrifice to pagan gods, and in some sources it
was blood mixed with dough and this whole thing. The
mythsay that traditionally used ingredients like amaranth changed to wheat
because the Spanish pushed wheat making. The bread was further
(14:33):
sweetened with sugar, that the Spanish brought red coloring was
added to represent blood, and that the shape changed too,
though not in all cases, and it was commercialized, but notably,
Indigenous people fought to protect the tradition celebrating and remembering
the dead and this bread.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yeah, and like, okay, look, upper class priests in the
Triple Alliance did certainly promote and enact human sacrifice, especially
during a certain period of their power, and those sacrifices
were culturally important. But like if you just think about it,
(15:14):
like obviously that wasn't a huge part of daily life
for everybody. Uh, Like it wouldn't have been you know,
like whoo, princess hearts all around. Let's go, like every holiday,
you wouldn't have just been munched on princess hearts, like
and obviously not to the point that like the common
dude down the street would need to be placated when
you took away his princess heart with a symbolic heartbread.
(15:37):
You know, like these were communities of artisans and scholars
and farmers and yes, fighters and priests. But these peoples
were people, and reducing their cultures to woo human sacrifice
is silly. Uh, Like it's missing out on everything else
that they have to offer the world.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Yeah, that's that's Laurence. That's Laurren's killed Corner.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Also, a book that I have not read, but I
read a great interview with the author about and I
want to get a hold of a copy is called
Fifth Sun, a New History of the Aztecs, and that
author is one Camilla Townsend. It seems like it's digging
into a lot of scholarly work, writings from people of
(16:25):
the time, and you know, kind of trying to yeah, yeah, yeah,
put together a more realistic and more rounded view of
what these peoples were.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Up to, Yes, which is very important, And I would
like to read that too. As you said, the Spanish
we're celebrating at this time all Souls Day and All Saints' Day,
and that goes back as far as the tenth century
CE in Europe at least, and they celebrated it with
(16:53):
ponda anymus or soul bread, which was an offering on
those days that was given to honor pass to love ones,
past loved ones, lost loved ones. So in some accounts
they basically use this bread and tradition to overtake a race,
combine with whatever offerings were being made in order to
(17:14):
come up with pan dumuertos. I also read an interesting
interview with someone else that he was making the argument
that it might have been a bit of a metaphor
that got lost. Okay, okay, so that in pan deemertos
you're essentially symbolically eating the dead, and the Spanish were
(17:36):
not on board with what they called cannibalism and the
cannibalism of the symbol. I should say, But when I
read that, I was like, but like Christianity, and in
particular Catholicism has the whole body and blood of Christ,
I don't know, Yeah, that's I don't wanna. I oh man.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
I Catholics are so heck in goth It's like, all right, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
That my body and the blood.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, well at any rate. Yes, cemetery vigils and afrendos
were also part of Spanish celebrations of All Saints and
All Souls days. But okay, However all of this got started,
communities in what's now Mexico adopted a blend of indigenous
(18:28):
and Spanish and other European practices, and over the centuries
that blend morphed into the holiday and the bread that
we have today. During the seventeen hundreds, rulers in New
Spain actually tried to outlaw cemetery festivities and so during
that and they were like, this is too raucous. You
guys are going too hard. You're celebrating too much. It's
(18:51):
getting dangerous. So during that point and other points, like
during the Mexican American social movement of the nineteen sixties,
symbolic traditions like a friend of and Pandemorto have been
forms of resistance.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
In twenty ten, Jumping with UNESCO declared it an intangible
cultural heritage of humanity.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Or not Pandemonico specifically, but about Mexican cuisine in general,
including Day of the Dead, symbolic foods and Lda delos
mortos more generally was added to their list. In two
thousand and eight as well.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
And yeah, the pandemic really hit Elda de los Morto's
celebrations pretty hard since they're often communal, or a lot
of aspects of them certainly are. I've found articles from
folks who, in absence of the public celebration part made
sure to get pon de Mortos. Still, it inevitably impacted
(19:53):
traditional bakers as well. Oh sure. Yeah, also us discussed
in Our Amerigold's episode thanks to things like the twenty
seventeen film Coco. I laugh because it comes up in
every article. That's all it really does about Ldad loves
(20:15):
Marto's LATINX communities and especially younger folks in the community
have been reclaiming or even celebrating for the first time,
especially outside of Mexico, feeling like, Okay, I would like
to explore this, I would like to reconnect with this. Yeah. Yeah,
And I found a good quote I want to end
with from Adriana Veles at The Washington Post in twenty twenty. Quote.
(20:38):
For me, crafting this bread by hand is an embodied
meditation through its very corporeal motions, I reflect on all
the mythologies around the world of God's creating humans of
how they take substances from the earth and animate them
using nothing more than their bare hands. As I need.
I am aware of my breath, my body, and I
am a god using the alchemy of cea eats, water
(21:00):
and motions to create life. When the dough rises, I
admire my creation, filled as it is with spirits. I
conquer death, if only for today, and I connect with
my ancestors who helped me see past this momentary crisis.
I feel the generations before, in the generations to come.
I cross dimensions of time and space. My ancestors have
(21:24):
seen war, genocide, bondage, heartbreak, and yet here I am
their descendant, working dough in their honor, for now, for
those we lost this year, for those who will rise
up in the future. Yeah, so good, that's pretty perfect.
That's really lovely. It is, it really is. It's a
(21:45):
great article. Yeah, I suggest seeking it out. Oh but yeah, listeners,
we would love to hear from you about this recipes history,
pictures recommendation.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Oh yeah, yeah, oh how could you if you got
if you've got a favorite bakery, if if there's any
other holiday foods that are really important to you or
that you add to an offerenda for somebody who who's past,
who you love.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Yeah, let us know, yes, please let us know. But
in the meantime, that's what we have to say for now.
It is.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
We do already have some listener mail for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break for
a word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you, sponsors, Yes,
thank you, and.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
We're back with listeners. Man like a light in the dark.
Uh yeah, it is a little chilly in it right now.
It is. It is. My toes are cold. It's fine.
My toes are too, and I'm working socks. So we
(23:09):
got a message from what the email subject line indicates
name is Steven. My my name is Stephen mysterious, but
at the bottom signed a very pleased Kafir witch so
or you don't know, but there you go. Whoever it was,
thanks for writing in, they wrote. After years of listening,
(23:33):
waiting and not even considering requesting it, you've done an
episode on one of my special interest Kafir. I literally
audibly gasped when I saw the episode title, my kaf
Your journey began in childhood when my aunt used to
make it using goat milk from her personal team of goats.
Since I was a snooty child, I thought it was gross,
(23:54):
though fascinating, and refused to drink it. Cut to my
mid twenties and I ordered my own grains on and
enjoyed many of my own homemade kaffir creations. There are
too many for me to list, but some highlights were
lazy kaffir sourdough bread and kaffir sodas, which are made
from the way that you drain from the finished product.
(24:14):
The bonus of draining the way is that the milk
solid product that's left has the consistency of Greek yogurt
and can be used as such en snacking and recipes. Sadly,
I threw out my grains when I started nursing school
and my life got too hectic. But I will order
them again when the weather cools more thoroughly here in
the West and the grains are more likely to survive
the journey. Oh oh, there's so much to love here.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yes, yes, I'll scheam of goats, teams of goats, uh,
kafir witchery, Yes, lazy sour dough bread, Yes, yeah, pier sodas.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Heck mm hmmm, I love it. I hope you're right
back in and let us know more about your grain
if they make it. Yeah, yeah, well follow up would
be great.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah, absolutely tell us all about any time that anyone
has a microbial community that they want.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
To let us know about. Yes, you do.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Andrew wrote a long long time. I am an episode
or two behind, but your cult episode inspired me to
write in. There's a local brewery here in Indianapolis, a
beer brewery which does a once weekly let's have more
than enough cult service. Alas, it's on Monday evening, so
I've never gotten to participate, but I might just give
(25:39):
it a go next time I have a Tuesday off
of work. This brewery also does the best pumpkin ale around.
As a much too experienced pumpkin beer drinker, I really
do mean it when I say it's autumn and a glass.
Y'all done a pumpkin beer episode. My favorite local place
also does a citra hopped cult in named the Sammy
Terry after a spooky regional TV host from years past.
(26:02):
It's a great one for sitting on the porch and
tossing a ball with our three dogs. Bonus fact. The
joint I'm referring to is a lovely, kitchy horror themed brewery.
Oh and half the space has now been converted into
a sami tery dedicated dungeon for October. Bonus bonus fact.
This is the same brewery that made a dill cult
(26:23):
in support of Ukraine back in the early days of
the ongoing conflict. There another beer related tidbit goes back
to your Soba episode. Another small place here does a
soba ale brewed with buckwheat. The beer is fine, so
I'm including this more because the brewery seems right up
your alley. Books and Brews is a tap room in
the back and used bookshop slash tabletop game center slash
(26:46):
Funko pop boutique.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
In the front.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
It's one of the few places here where reading and
quietly enjoying a brew is actually acceptable. Definitely worth a visit.
Ps Indy was just recently voted one of the top
beer city in the country by USA Today. If you
ever make it to gen Con, you'll have plenty of
excellent spots to try PPS. Since I brought up Dill above,
I have one last fundl story to share. My wife's
(27:11):
late grandmother would often bring a dill flavored dip to
family gatherings. The ubiquitous dip became simply known as Granny
Dip after Granny's passing several years ago. The recipe was
willed to a cousin I love this, who then gifted
it to us for our wedding. Anytime either of our
families are getting together, my wife will offer to make
the dip, and my answer is one hundred percent yes.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Oh, Granny diplled willed.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
The recipe was willed to a cousin and then gifted
on the occasion of a wedding.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
This is so cool, so awesome. I want like a
Game of Thrones level like production of this.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Granny recipe right, so much better better than the redder
Purple wedding gifts. Yeah, yeah, yes, also yeah, all these
breweries sound amazing. Yeah, Haunted Brewery, book brewery, sober bucket beer.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I would be in so much trouble if we had
a combo used bookstore and bar of any kind, I
would I would be I would be like half a
beer in and I would be like, I'm buying everything here,
literally everything, uh huh.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yep, And then it would be even worse. If it
was kind of like Haunted Themes, then I'm never leaving
ah heck.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Also, I do love a really a regional TV host situation,
and Sammy Terry sounds wonderful, just delightful.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
I love that too. I love that the level. Yeah reached,
that's fantastic. Oh oh so good? Well it maybe one day, Lauren, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah, adding it, adding it to our list of places
to go, Yes, wherever, growing list. Oh well.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
In the meantime, thanks to both these listeners for writing in.
If you would like to write to us, you can
Our email is hello at savorpod dot com, but we
are also on social media.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at
saver pod, and we do hope to hear from you.
Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my
Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as
always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reech.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And Unborn vocal Bum and today we have an episode
for you about pondom Morto Pandoo.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I had never heard of this. Oh really, yeah, no,
I know a lot of these episodes we're doing, we've
done around Dia Delos Mertos. I have been woefully ignorant,
so I was excited to learn about it. Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
It is super tasty, A favorite like seasonal holiday treat
of mine. And I we're lucky here in Atlanta to
have a really wide group of different immigrants from around
the world and a bunch of really great international markets
and so yeah, so there I miss living up on
(01:00):
Beauford Highway where I had like kind of immediate access
to stuff like this.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, which yeah, I mean I'm assuming
that's why this was on your mind.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
It is because, yes, yes, because Lda delis Morthos was
November first and second, and.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah, so here we are, here we are. You can
see our Marigold episode where we did talk about some
of the stuff that we're going to talk about in here.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, maybe kind of generally tortillas and tamalas.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Mm hmmm, any kind of bread related thing, I suppose.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Sure, yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, But I guess that brings
us to our question.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I guess it does, pond Demerto, what is it?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Well, Panda marto is a type of rich, soft, yeast
raised sweet bread. It's made with a fluffy white wheat
flour dense with a lot of egg and milk and butter,
sweetened with a little bit of granulated sugar in the
dough and more sprinkled over the crust, usually and flavored
warm and bright and floral, with orange blossom water and
(02:15):
often a bit of orange zest annis and or cinnamon.
It's shaped into round loaves or buns and decorated on
top with these kind of bulbous ropes of dough that
are meant to resemble crossed bones. And that is because
it is a traditional treat surrounding Elda delis Morthos, which
is a holiday celebrating loved ones who have died and
which incorporates a lot of skeletal imagery. It literally means
(02:40):
bread of the dead pandamorphos. Yes, and Dea delis Moorthos
is Day of the Dead. Sure, totally, here we go.
Yes and so yeah, so pandamortho is it's like a
dessert brioche or holla that reminds you that death is
part of life. Yeah, it's like it is fragrant and comforting,
(03:03):
like a warm, bright light in the dark, just welcoming
you home.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
I love that it's beautiful. Ah and okay.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I've seen a bunch of different recipes, a bunch of
different types of recipes for how to work the ingredients together,
But basically you're looking to make a really rich, fatty
moist dough with with stuff like milk, butter or lard,
and eggs, either all whole eggs or maybe plus some
extra yolks. You levi in it with friendly bread yeasts
(03:37):
which eat some of the sugars and the flour and
poop carbon dioxide, bubbles and flavors yeast food. You let
it rise, you punch it down, then shape your loaves
and let them rise again before baking to a fluffy,
golden brown. Once they're out of the oven, you might
glaze them with an egg or butter wash as a
glue and then sprinkle on granulated sugar like Glitter colored
(04:00):
are optional, Bright pink or red are popular. Depending on
the area that you're in, and the shape is said
to be symbolic, maybe symbolic of the mounded earth of
a grave with like bones peeking up out of it,
or maybe like the circle of life, or maybe the
tears that we shed for the dead, or the tears
(04:20):
that the dead shed for us. H yeah, or I'm
not sure. Or maybe a red or pink represents the
blood of the dead who died wounded. Other shapes can
be made with the bread. You can make it into
a doughnut shape or a doll shape, or like a
chubby little skeleton with slashes and pinches of dough for
(04:40):
the arms and legs and head. In parts of Wahaka,
you might add an edible painted face or skull onto
the finished bread. In other areas, motifs could involve flowers
or animals, real or mythical. You might make it into
the shape of a cross or an angel or braided bones.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
There are all.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Kinds of variations, and especially in flavoring, like how much
sugar do you use?
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Do you want? Just the orange.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Blossom water is and it's important to balance out. The
sweetness is orange zest. What really makes it shine is cinnamon,
the warming element that you need. I mean, do you
want to add chocolate chips? I cannot stop you, and
I would not. Furthermore, if you want to add other
herbs or spices like lavender or cardamom, maybe a filling
(05:30):
or a stuffing of cream, chocolate, guava paste, goat milk, caramel,
rice pudding, flyan ice cream. I've seen it topped with
sesame seeds or pumpkin seeds for like a less sweet,
more savory kind of take, or like going all in
with like a sweet white chocolate or dark chocolate, or
like sticky bunglaze.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah yeah, wow. And they're beautiful, Like a lot of
them are really pretty dello cats.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah yeah, I've really only had like the very basic kind.
But now I'm like, okay, need to find need to
find the door create some of these variants. Another variant.
It's not even it's not always a wheat flour dough.
Corn doughs can be used, and like these are a
lot of examples, but it's honestly just scratching the surface,
(06:19):
you know, Like, if there's one that is that is
precious to you, please write in.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yes, please write in pictures if you have those.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yes, yes, recipes, yes, all right. Fundamortho is mostly served
as like a snack surrounding lda delas mortos, maybe with
like a nice hot coffee or a hot chocolate. They
can also be incorporated into afrendas, which are sort of
shrines or altars to loved ones who have passed, and
(06:47):
which furthermore incorporate those loved ones favorite foods and drinks
along with you know, like photos, some marigolds, you know,
bright and fragrant, orange yellow, some sugar skulls, some some colabadas,
which are skeletons usually that are like doing stuff like
I don't know, like being a fireman or playing soccer.
I'm not sure, yeah, whatever they want to do. Candles, incense,
(07:10):
other decor a friend us are meant to remind you
of the deceased and what they loved in life and
to welcome them back to celebrate with you. Pendewathough is
traditionally made it home, but especially leading up to the holiday.
You can find it in bakeries and from street vendors
all around Mexico, where it is mostly from, and also
(07:33):
other places where the holiday is celebrated and or where
Mexican people have integrated.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yes, Wow. What about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Oh, there's it depends, but it's probably a treats are nice.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Treats are nice treats. You're nice. We don't have much
in the way for numbers for you, but we have one, yes,
one that I found, and I actually we saw a
lot of different versions of this number. So, okay, grain
of salt. But bakeries across Mexico prepare over four hundred
(08:09):
types of pandomerto during Lda de los Martos. So there's
a lot of different types, and there are a lot
of different like specific regional variations I found.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Oh oh absolutely, yeah, yeah, totally and right, Yeah, that
number was in nat GEO, so I have be sure
why not?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, most of them I found for less, and I'm
inclined to believe there are more actually, so yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah,
but to say, there are a lot of different numbers.
But that brings us to the history.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Oh yes, and we are going to get into that
as soon as we get back from a quick break
forward from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
And we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with a not so fun disclaimer. Yeah, but yes,
a lot of the language in resources I found around
this topic was slash is because some of them are
pretty recent, pretty offensive, and also very skewed, which we're
(09:21):
going to talk about. Oh yeah. Section that being said,
a lot of sources claim that this bread traces back
to the arrival of Spanish colonizers to what is now
Mexico and surrounding areas in the fifteen hundreds.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yes, okay, so when the Spanish showed up, the group
in power, the reigning power sure was perhaps what's least
confusingly known as the Triple Alliance, often called the Aztec Empire.
Aztec is actually a more modern term that got retroactively applied,
and it's been applied unevenly to different people's So yes,
(09:58):
I'm going to stick with the trip Alliance, referring to
the empire made up of these three city states in
what's now known as the Valley of Mexico.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Okay, Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Although there were a blend of people's and traditions in
the area, one of the big community festivals at the
time was this month long celebration of the Dead, which
happened in the ninth month of their calendar, right around
like late July early August aka harvest season, and various
pieces of this tradition stretch back like three thousand years,
(10:30):
but by this point a large part of it involved
honoring a goddess known as the Lady of the Dead
and the keeper of the underworld Miteka Suat who manawad
is not good. I apologize, I'm making efforts, but yeah.
So she and her husband were portrayed as having these
skeletal faces and is wearing necklaces of skulls and severed hands,
(10:54):
and there was dance and offerings and food all month long.
And you know, humans like bread. It's almost certain that
some kind of bread type product was part of these traditions.
There were definitely bread type offerings made to other gods
like the tech Titlan patron god of the sun and
(11:15):
of war, and also to spirits of the dead, like
those of women who had died in childbirth, perhaps especially
their first childbirth. However, okay, a few things. Wheat did
not exist in the area until colonization. Any bread offerings
at the time would have been flatbreads, including tortillas or
tamales made with amaranth or corn. Granulated sugar had not
(11:39):
reached the area either. Honey might have been used as
a sweetener. The Spanish were also the ones who brought oranges,
though those did catch on like particularly fast in the area.
But okay, so yes, that is the type of bread
that we would have been dealing with. Meanwhile, symbols used
for decorations of ritual breads sometimes included butterflies, which are
(12:00):
a fall seasonal thing in the area, because monarch butterflies
migrate south for the winter from like all the way
up through what's now Canada every fall. So some cultures,
especially up in the mountain forest areas of that part
of the world, have associated the return of the monarchs
with the harvest season, with the return of spirits of
the dead. You can still find a few butterfly symbols
(12:23):
floating around today. So yes, offerings of breads were a thing.
Pandamortos or any like direct corollary to it was probably
not a thing when the Spanish arrived. I say probably
because part of the problem in sussing out the pre
Hispanic history of traditions in this area is that a
(12:47):
lot of what has been told about it, like up
until very recently, has been superbiased Spanish colonist tellings or
straight up retcons of that history, which they basically did
as an excuse to take over. Like researchers are still
uncovering writings and artifacts and like figuring out what was
(13:10):
really going on before and when the Spanish showed.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Up, right, and when the Spanish showed up, they immediately
set about enforcing Christianity and erasing and were changing the traditions, beliefs,
and culture.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
One of the things that they did was they looked
at this seasonal fall festival and went, well, this isn't
going to do. So they tried to like reshape and
refit its traditions into existing Catholic holidays. For example, All
Saints Day and All Souls Day, which occur on November
first and November twod. All Saints Day remembers and honors
saints who are now in heaven, and All Souls Day
(13:48):
is the time to pray for souls of loved ones
who might be trapped in purgatory awaiting entrance into heaven.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
And Pontemrtos was part of all of this. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
There they were pretty popularly told I would call them
myths that Pandamortos was created as a substitution for barbaric rituals.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, that it represented the still beating hearts and blood
of virgins or in some accounts a specific princess as
mentioned sacrifice to pagan gods, and in some sources it
was blood mixed with dough and this whole thing. The
mythsay that traditionally used ingredients like amaranth changed to wheat
because the Spanish pushed wheat making. The bread was further
(14:33):
sweetened with sugar, that the Spanish brought red coloring was
added to represent blood, and that the shape changed too,
though not in all cases, and it was commercialized, but notably,
Indigenous people fought to protect the tradition celebrating and remembering
the dead and this bread.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yeah, and like, okay, look, upper class priests in the
Triple Alliance did certainly promote and enact human sacrifice, especially
during a certain period of their power, and those sacrifices
were culturally important. But like if you just think about it,
(15:14):
like obviously that wasn't a huge part of daily life
for everybody. Uh, Like it wouldn't have been you know,
like whoo, princess hearts all around. Let's go, like every holiday,
you wouldn't have just been munched on princess hearts, like
and obviously not to the point that like the common
dude down the street would need to be placated when
you took away his princess heart with a symbolic heartbread.
(15:37):
You know, like these were communities of artisans and scholars
and farmers and yes, fighters and priests. But these peoples
were people, and reducing their cultures to woo human sacrifice
is silly. Uh, Like it's missing out on everything else
that they have to offer the world.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Yeah, that's that's Laurence. That's Laurren's killed Corner.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Also, a book that I have not read, but I
read a great interview with the author about and I
want to get a hold of a copy is called
Fifth Sun, a New History of the Aztecs, and that
author is one Camilla Townsend. It seems like it's digging
into a lot of scholarly work, writings from people of
(16:25):
the time, and you know, kind of trying to yeah, yeah, yeah,
put together a more realistic and more rounded view of
what these peoples were.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Up to, Yes, which is very important, And I would
like to read that too. As you said, the Spanish
we're celebrating at this time all Souls Day and All Saints' Day,
and that goes back as far as the tenth century
CE in Europe at least, and they celebrated it with
(16:53):
ponda anymus or soul bread, which was an offering on
those days that was given to honor pass to love ones,
past loved ones, lost loved ones. So in some accounts
they basically use this bread and tradition to overtake a race,
combine with whatever offerings were being made in order to
(17:14):
come up with pan dumuertos. I also read an interesting
interview with someone else that he was making the argument
that it might have been a bit of a metaphor
that got lost. Okay, okay, so that in pan deemertos
you're essentially symbolically eating the dead, and the Spanish were
(17:36):
not on board with what they called cannibalism and the
cannibalism of the symbol. I should say, But when I
read that, I was like, but like Christianity, and in
particular Catholicism has the whole body and blood of Christ,
I don't know, Yeah, that's I don't wanna. I oh man.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
I Catholics are so heck in goth It's like, all right, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
That my body and the blood.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, well at any rate. Yes, cemetery vigils and afrendos
were also part of Spanish celebrations of All Saints and
All Souls days. But okay, However all of this got started,
communities in what's now Mexico adopted a blend of indigenous
(18:28):
and Spanish and other European practices, and over the centuries
that blend morphed into the holiday and the bread that
we have today. During the seventeen hundreds, rulers in New
Spain actually tried to outlaw cemetery festivities and so during
that and they were like, this is too raucous. You
guys are going too hard. You're celebrating too much. It's
(18:51):
getting dangerous. So during that point and other points, like
during the Mexican American social movement of the nineteen sixties,
symbolic traditions like a friend of and Pandemorto have been
forms of resistance.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
In twenty ten, Jumping with UNESCO declared it an intangible
cultural heritage of humanity.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Or not Pandemonico specifically, but about Mexican cuisine in general,
including Day of the Dead, symbolic foods and Lda delos
mortos more generally was added to their list. In two
thousand and eight as well.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
And yeah, the pandemic really hit Elda de los Morto's
celebrations pretty hard since they're often communal, or a lot
of aspects of them certainly are. I've found articles from
folks who, in absence of the public celebration part made
sure to get pon de Mortos. Still, it inevitably impacted
(19:53):
traditional bakers as well. Oh sure. Yeah, also us discussed
in Our Amerigold's episode thanks to things like the twenty
seventeen film Coco. I laugh because it comes up in
every article. That's all it really does about Ldad loves
(20:15):
Marto's LATINX communities and especially younger folks in the community
have been reclaiming or even celebrating for the first time,
especially outside of Mexico, feeling like, Okay, I would like
to explore this, I would like to reconnect with this. Yeah. Yeah,
And I found a good quote I want to end
with from Adriana Veles at The Washington Post in twenty twenty. Quote.
(20:38):
For me, crafting this bread by hand is an embodied
meditation through its very corporeal motions, I reflect on all
the mythologies around the world of God's creating humans of
how they take substances from the earth and animate them
using nothing more than their bare hands. As I need.
I am aware of my breath, my body, and I
am a god using the alchemy of cea eats, water
(21:00):
and motions to create life. When the dough rises, I
admire my creation, filled as it is with spirits. I
conquer death, if only for today, and I connect with
my ancestors who helped me see past this momentary crisis.
I feel the generations before, in the generations to come.
I cross dimensions of time and space. My ancestors have
(21:24):
seen war, genocide, bondage, heartbreak, and yet here I am
their descendant, working dough in their honor, for now, for
those we lost this year, for those who will rise
up in the future. Yeah, so good, that's pretty perfect.
That's really lovely. It is, it really is. It's a
(21:45):
great article. Yeah, I suggest seeking it out. Oh but yeah, listeners,
we would love to hear from you about this recipes history,
pictures recommendation.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Oh yeah, yeah, oh how could you if you got
if you've got a favorite bakery, if if there's any
other holiday foods that are really important to you or
that you add to an offerenda for somebody who who's past,
who you love.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Yeah, let us know, yes, please let us know. But
in the meantime, that's what we have to say for now.
It is.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
We do already have some listener mail for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break for
a word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you, sponsors, Yes,
thank you, and.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
We're back with listeners. Man like a light in the dark.
Uh yeah, it is a little chilly in it right now.
It is. It is. My toes are cold. It's fine.
My toes are too, and I'm working socks. So we
(23:09):
got a message from what the email subject line indicates
name is Steven. My my name is Stephen mysterious, but
at the bottom signed a very pleased Kafir witch so
or you don't know, but there you go. Whoever it was,
thanks for writing in, they wrote. After years of listening,
(23:33):
waiting and not even considering requesting it, you've done an
episode on one of my special interest Kafir. I literally
audibly gasped when I saw the episode title, my kaf
Your journey began in childhood when my aunt used to
make it using goat milk from her personal team of goats.
Since I was a snooty child, I thought it was gross,
(23:54):
though fascinating, and refused to drink it. Cut to my
mid twenties and I ordered my own grains on and
enjoyed many of my own homemade kaffir creations. There are
too many for me to list, but some highlights were
lazy kaffir sourdough bread and kaffir sodas, which are made
from the way that you drain from the finished product.
(24:14):
The bonus of draining the way is that the milk
solid product that's left has the consistency of Greek yogurt
and can be used as such en snacking and recipes. Sadly,
I threw out my grains when I started nursing school
and my life got too hectic. But I will order
them again when the weather cools more thoroughly here in
the West and the grains are more likely to survive
the journey. Oh oh, there's so much to love here.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yes, yes, I'll scheam of goats, teams of goats, uh,
kafir witchery, Yes, lazy sour dough bread, Yes, yeah, pier sodas.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Heck mm hmmm, I love it. I hope you're right
back in and let us know more about your grain
if they make it. Yeah, yeah, well follow up would
be great.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah, absolutely tell us all about any time that anyone
has a microbial community that they want.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
To let us know about. Yes, you do.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Andrew wrote a long long time. I am an episode
or two behind, but your cult episode inspired me to
write in. There's a local brewery here in Indianapolis, a
beer brewery which does a once weekly let's have more
than enough cult service. Alas, it's on Monday evening, so
I've never gotten to participate, but I might just give
(25:39):
it a go next time I have a Tuesday off
of work. This brewery also does the best pumpkin ale around.
As a much too experienced pumpkin beer drinker, I really
do mean it when I say it's autumn and a glass.
Y'all done a pumpkin beer episode. My favorite local place
also does a citra hopped cult in named the Sammy
Terry after a spooky regional TV host from years past.
(26:02):
It's a great one for sitting on the porch and
tossing a ball with our three dogs. Bonus fact. The
joint I'm referring to is a lovely, kitchy horror themed brewery.
Oh and half the space has now been converted into
a sami tery dedicated dungeon for October. Bonus bonus fact.
This is the same brewery that made a dill cult
(26:23):
in support of Ukraine back in the early days of
the ongoing conflict. There another beer related tidbit goes back
to your Soba episode. Another small place here does a
soba ale brewed with buckwheat. The beer is fine, so
I'm including this more because the brewery seems right up
your alley. Books and Brews is a tap room in
the back and used bookshop slash tabletop game center slash
(26:46):
Funko pop boutique.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
In the front.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
It's one of the few places here where reading and
quietly enjoying a brew is actually acceptable. Definitely worth a visit.
Ps Indy was just recently voted one of the top
beer city in the country by USA Today. If you
ever make it to gen Con, you'll have plenty of
excellent spots to try PPS. Since I brought up Dill above,
I have one last fundl story to share. My wife's
(27:11):
late grandmother would often bring a dill flavored dip to
family gatherings. The ubiquitous dip became simply known as Granny
Dip after Granny's passing several years ago. The recipe was
willed to a cousin I love this, who then gifted
it to us for our wedding. Anytime either of our
families are getting together, my wife will offer to make
the dip, and my answer is one hundred percent yes.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Oh, Granny diplled willed.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
The recipe was willed to a cousin and then gifted
on the occasion of a wedding.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
This is so cool, so awesome. I want like a
Game of Thrones level like production of this.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Granny recipe right, so much better better than the redder
Purple wedding gifts. Yeah, yeah, yes, also yeah, all these
breweries sound amazing. Yeah, Haunted Brewery, book brewery, sober bucket beer.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I would be in so much trouble if we had
a combo used bookstore and bar of any kind, I
would I would be I would be like half a
beer in and I would be like, I'm buying everything here,
literally everything, uh huh.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yep, And then it would be even worse. If it
was kind of like Haunted Themes, then I'm never leaving
ah heck.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Also, I do love a really a regional TV host situation,
and Sammy Terry sounds wonderful, just delightful.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
I love that too. I love that the level. Yeah reached,
that's fantastic. Oh oh so good? Well it maybe one day, Lauren, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah, adding it, adding it to our list of places
to go, Yes, wherever, growing list. Oh well.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
In the meantime, thanks to both these listeners for writing in.
If you would like to write to us, you can
Our email is hello at savorpod dot com, but we
are also on social media.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at
saver pod, and we do hope to hear from you.
Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my
Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as
always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!