October 10, 2025 • 34 mins
Despite many changes in the beer industry since this episode originally published, India Pale Ales still rule the American craft beer market. In this classic episode, Anney and Lauren explore the colonial history and bitter science behind IPAs.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Saber Protection of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we
have a classic episode for you about IPAs.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Yes, and I have to say, in typical Saber fashion,
I've forgotten we'd done this episode, and when I saw
your message about it, I thought you were suggesting a
new topic.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Oh freaked out.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh no, okay, Oh I don't have the capacity for
that right now.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
But we've already done it. Yeah, congratulations. That was a
problem for past Danny.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, yeah, so so IPA's India palel beers. We did this,
And to be fair, we did this episode back in
October of twenty eighteen, which was a minute ago. Yes,
thank you, Lauren. Hey, yeah, no, just it's a true fact.
It's a true fact.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Was there any particular reason this was on your mind?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I was just I was just looking through stuff and
and alcohol was sort of up in the rotation, and
uh yeah yeah. So I was like, oh, this is
a good one. It goes places, it's interesting, and we
don't do myth busting ourselves, but there are some myths
that are busted. I think that this one. I think
(01:29):
that like late twenty eighteen was circa the height to
like the slight downturn of IPA's being completely unavoidable in
every brewery. I think it was like right before sours
(01:50):
suddenly became the unavoidable thing in every craft brewery, and
the hour trend has continued as of twenty twenty five.
This year, sours have had fastest growth of a style
in terms of new launches this year, but IPAs are
still the best selling style of craft beer. It is
(02:12):
just a powerhouse. And this is even in the face
of like changing drinking habits, which has also been a
big thing since October of twenty eighteen. Like beer sales
in general have been a bit down the past couple
of years due to a number of factors, but for example,
sales of non alcoholic beers in bars and restaurants is
(02:36):
up by about a third, and IPAs are leading that
category with a one hundred and seventy percent growth rate
year over year. Wow, Yeah, they're a big dew. Yeah
they have been for a while. They certainly have. And
so without further ado, let's let former Annie and Lauren
(02:57):
take it away. Hello, and welcome to Savor. I'm Annie
Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we're talking about IPAs.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
IPA's which, in case you didn't know, Super India pale ale.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yes, it's a beer style and it's a very popular
beer style. It's sort of like v beer style of
the American craft scene, which is why we wanted to
talk about it during this Ashville stravaganza that we are
embarked upon. Did your trademark that not yet? You better
get on it. People are gonna want that. I'm sure
(03:41):
they are.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah, they're rushing to the patent offices. I think that's
how it works.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, I don't know. Sure.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Well. I was telling Lauren before we started recording that
I've always been a person who said I don't like IPAs,
But doing the research for this episode, I realized I
do like IPAs. But there was kind of this ipa
arms race where they were everywhere and bad ones were everywhere.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah, and it was too many.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yes, So I think I just don't like bad ivas.
But there are some IPAs out there. For me. There's
one I always get because it reminds me of the
day I broke up, which is a weird thing that
I do.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
But it's a good.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Iva.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
That is an interesting bit of nostalgia. It is, isn't it.
I like it? Oh? Yeah, I remember that. We've been
researching nostalgia all day. Yeah, and so I'm like, okay,
I'm going to follow up with you about this later.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Oh, excellent, dive into my psyche. That's a dark podcast,
all right. Moving on from that, let's get to our
question IPAs.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
What are they? Well, India pale ales are a style
of beer made from a light roasted malt and lots
of hops, which lets the hops really shine and creates
these bright, bitter flavors. But let's get a little bit
more granular than that. And that's almost a pun because
I'm about to talk about grains. I'm working on it. Yeah,
(05:08):
so okay. Beer. Beer is an alcoholic beverage made from
malted grain, water, and yeast. You boil the malt in
water to release sugars, then add the yeast, which eats
those sugars and poops carbon dioxide alcohol and flavor Ooo yeast,
please poop again. Yeah. You can also add other stuff
to flavor beer, like hops, to balance those sweet flavors
(05:31):
from the malt and the yeast. Most modern beer does
contain hops, and hops are the flower of this climbing
plant that adds flavors to beer, especially bitter flavors and
super bonus. Inhibits the growth of unwanted microorganisms, especially bacteria,
in your beer. They also help stabilize beer's foam. And
I really want to do a whole episode on hops. Now.
(05:52):
This is a very pared down version of what it is,
but u Yes, hops can be added to beer right
at the beginning of that boil with the malt that's
going to extract the maximum amount of acids from the
hops and thus the maximum bitterness. Or you can add
them towards the end of the boil for more delicate
oil based flavors, or after the boil entirely when the
(06:14):
liquid has cooled, for even more of those fresh oil
based flavors. That third one is called dry hopping. By
the way, if you've ever seen that phrase and not
understood what it meant, now you know. Now you know.
Knowing is half the beering. You can also use a
combination of these three hop processes, and all will yield
slightly different results with different varieties of hops, but in
general hops equal bitter.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yes, we made a video with a local distillery that
is not right brewery called Orpheus, and they let us
try straight up hops.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
And it was quite bitter. It was, Yes, I have
video evidence of it. Oh yeah, I think for a
good like twenty minutes after I tasted that tiny little
granule of hop, like, I was like a cat trying
to like wipe the scent off of my face. Oh no,
what have I done?
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah, it was like bitter soap. It was like soap,
but even more bitter.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah. I mean I actually sort of enjoyed the sensation.
But that just says something about me probably. Any Way,
How bitter are we talking about here? Yeah? How bitter? Well,
let's talk about IBU or international bitterness units or bittering units.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
SCIENTI.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
That is a good way to know what beer you'll
like on a menu. I'll tell you that. It's certainly helpful.
It's a scale that's meant to help brewers and drinkers
gauge how bitter a beer will taste. You might have
seen it listed next to beers on menus or on bottles.
We certainly saw this in Ashville. And it's a measurement
of sort of one type of bitterness in beer. The
parts per million of several bittering compounds that beer contains,
(07:51):
and these compounds tend to come in with hops. Most
beers you will drink range from like five to one
hundred and twenty IBus, with the higher scores indicating higher
content of those bitter and compounds. IPAs, because of their
hop content, tend to veer towards the upper end of
that and interestingly, IBus like Scoville units, technically go to infinity.
(08:15):
Oh oh no, there have been beers measured with over
two thousand IBus. Did people survive after drinking them? I
haven't read reports back, but I assume that they Yeah,
I've read reviews, so they did live to tell the tale,
at least temporarily, at least for a little bit. Yeah,
(08:37):
but a lot of other factors in your beer will
influence how bitter the beer will actually taste to you.
You know, all kinds of things can go into the experience.
Like a stout can technically have a higher IBU rating
than a pal ale, which you would think of you know,
I don't know anyway, but yeah, ib's can give you
a good rough idea.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah, and the food also can determine how bitter it
is to you too. If you're enjoying it with food.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Oh sure, absolutely, Yeah, good spicy food is good with
an ipa. I hear. Oh it's lovely, Okay, great, Yeah,
and Fitton Glenn talked about that when we were in Asheville.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
I really love a super hoppy ipa with spicy Mexican
food because I mean, laggers are great with Mexican food,
but you can't taste them once you've got those chili's
on your palette, whereas a bitter beer will actually cut
the intensity of the chili, so everybody of chili is
(09:33):
like that much more intense, which I love.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
She's a beer historian and we had a great conversation
with her. But yeah, let's talk about some of those
styles of IPAs, because there are a bunch. There are
a bunch.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
There are more than we included, and more than I've
ever heard of, honestly. But here here's a good rundown
of them.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
First, we've got traditional IPAs. Those are going to be
your English IPAs, made with English yeast, malt, and and
they tend to be a little bit more gentle on
the bitterness, even perhaps toasty and stone fruity. No, not
in an ipa. My goodness me monsters. They stand in
(10:16):
stark contrast to most American IPAs, the West Coast ipa
being the original. The original.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
These are usually fruitier, citrusier, floralier, pineer pineer.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, usually very bitter and hoppy. Then you've got East
Coast IPAs because of course, like I have some competitions
you do. These are more like English IPAs. They're a
little bit more balanced between the sweetness of the malt
and the bitterness of the hops, but are not to
be confused with.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
New England IPAs, also called hazy IPAs, and these are
a relatively Newish style of ipa that are typically a
bit juicier and hazier. There was a whole thing where
the Brewers Association had to update their IPA guidelines to
include juicy and hazy IPAs since the clear color was
(11:08):
a part of the way beer judges would mark a
beer an ipa. This happened in twenty eighteen. Oh wow,
so very recent breaking news. The hops associated with these
IPAs are Mosaic, Citra and Galaxy, which are also relatively Newish.
The yeast use in New England IPAs are different as well.
They produce more esters and in part a bit of
(11:31):
a sweeter, fruitier taste. Then there's the double imperial IPA.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
A double or imperial. Yes, yes, not the double imperial,
all those that kind of does exist. Yeah, I guess
you could do a quadruple IPA if you wanted to
think people have goodness. We haven't.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
We didn't include it, but I believe it exists. The
double or imperial came about as American brewers got more
and more heavy handed with their hops, and we got
a new category of IPA.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Then, of course triple IPAs, which are even more hops,
even higher abvs. And I think I've used that a
couple of times without explaining it. ABV stands for alcohol
by volume.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yes, yes, there are session IPAs, which are lower ABV, lighter,
easier drinking.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Belgian IPAs, which are usually not from Belgium, but they
will use Belgian yiese strains after bottling to create carbonation
and that kind of Belgianese sweet flavor. You've got. Black
IPAs aka Cascadian dark ales. These are dry and dark,
with a kind of chocolate or coffee bitterness in addition
to the usual citrus bitterness thanks to some roasted malt.
(12:37):
You've got white IPAs, red IPAs, brown rye, oat, lactose, bread, fruit,
and sour. Anything that you can do to a beerd
you can do to an ipa, and then it creates
a new little subcategory. It's sort of like gremlins. It's
sort of they just sort of all just pop off
from the main.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Well happens if you give a gremlin an ipa after midnight.
I shout out to think someone researched that.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Now.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Other terms that you might come across in IPA's are
single hopped and fresh hopped. Single hopped is what it
says on the box, Just a single variety of hops
were used in making that beer instead of a blend.
And fresh hopped beers are a maid using hops that
have been picked within the past twenty four hours, so
they have like a lot of fresh, bold flavor, and
(13:24):
they're usually meant to be consumed right away to get
like that just mouthful of grass that you might be
looking for. Sure.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
One of our first stops when we went to Asheville
was that Sierra Nevada's brewery.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
They're outpost in Asheville.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
All right, yeah, and I can't remember, I know I
got one that when I tasted it. It could evolve
and in my head, but the hops tasted very fresh
and like bright and grassy.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
It was nice.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah, if you're into that sort of thing, it can
be quite nice.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
If you're not, it can be quite disgusting, very brave racing, indeed,
But that did not stop folks from making IPAs. I
don't think we can stress enough how much growth IPAs
have experienced in the past few decades. In the early nineties,
bartenders might not have known what you were talking about
(14:16):
when you asked for one. Craft brewing has a lot
to do with our increased societal awareness around IPAs and
our increased options.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Oh yeah, the growth of craft beer and IPAs have
gone pretty hand in hand. If you look at the
period of twenty eight to twenty fifteen, the production of
craft beer in the United States tripled in volume during
that time. IPAs in two thousand and eight were just
eight percent of the craft market, but sales of craft
IPAs rose thirty nine percent over the course of twenty
(14:47):
twelve alone, becoming sixteen percent of the market by the
end of that year, and then they rose again fifty
percent on top of that over the course of twenty fourteen.
At the end of twenty fourteen, they were twenty three
percent of the craft market and they were not done growing.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Of the US craft beer market, IPA's accounted for thirty
percent of that and twenty fifteen just up and up
and up.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
This means that production of IPA's multiplied by more than
ten times in just seven years, and they are still
the biggest category of craft beer in the United States.
We got a lot of IPAs, we do. But how
did this happen? I don't know, No, I do, yeah,
pretty much. Yes, Yes, we've got some history for you,
but first we've got a quick break for a word
(15:31):
from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I would wager that a lot of you listeners have
probably heard some version of the IPA's history.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
A lot of you have.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Probably heard some version of the same type of story.
But I'm going to be straight with you, listeners, I
don't know for sure how much of that is true.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yeah, it's one of those serious mysteries of history kind
of kind of things. But we're going to walk through
some of the legends here.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, and there are certainly some facts where all of
this spring.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
From yes with.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
So, yeah, we'll go over the main stories you're likely
to find about the IPA.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
But first a little bit of setup. Yes, So, by
the mid seventeen hundreds, pale ales were all the rage
in England thanks to this new heating technology. Prior to
that time a wood or pete or charcoal were they
fuel sources used to roast malt, and this gave beers
a dark color and sort of deep smoky flavors. But
(16:41):
back in the sixteen hundreds, folks working with coal had
derived a new fuel called coke, which burned hotter and
faster than anything anyone had seen before. It drove industrial
development from iron to steel to glass and also made
its way into brewing. Malt could be finished without so
much smoke by using coke. The resulting malt was paler
(17:02):
and tasted cleaner than malts roasted with wood or whatever,
And so the resulting pale ales using these malts were
more expensive, but very posh and let the flavor of
any hops you added shine through more clearly.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Right, But when it comes to India and the British
Empire's presence in India, the temperature there was not ideal
for beer brewing no, it was too hot. On top
of that, the journey took about six months from Britain
to India, so you had to factor in that travel
time to whatever you were planning on surviving that trip
(17:36):
in good.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Shape because there were no refrigerators.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yes, good reminder when it comes to beer, that means
more hops. Hops act as a preservative. A brewer out
of seventeen eighties London, George Hodgson, came up with the
idea for a heavily hopped beer called october Ale, which
normally would have been aged sort of like wine when
it reached India. Turns out well, it improved with age
(18:02):
hizah because India was so much hotter than Britain. It
eventually was modified to be paler and lighter, or, depending
on what story you hear, the extra hops mass the
fact that the beer is rotten. Brew Master George Sapiro
over at C. H. Evans Brewing Company said of the
higher alcohol content in this ipa the october Al quote,
(18:24):
it probably kept the people on the other end happy
that they were drinking it. You'll get intoxicated much faster
and maybe forget you are posted far from home in India,
or it could be because alcohol is a preservative, could
be sure.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Sure. That's one version of the story.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Another version is that dark Porters, which were popular in
London where the weather was cooler, were the beer that
British posted in India were stuck with for a while,
and stuck with because porters aren't exactly the best the
drink of choice, we'll say for hot weather situations.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Do you think of them more as a cool weather beer? Sure? Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
And on top of that, they arrived lukewarm, which apparently
was not ideal either. Hodgson was a supplier and he
tried all sorts of things to improve the quality of
his product and keep his eighteen month contract that he
had with the East India company. He sent unfermented beer
(19:23):
and would add the East once it derived at its destination.
That didn't really work. He sent beer concentrate to be
deluded when it arrived.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
It didn't really work.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Then he came off the idea of sending a pale
ale that October Ale instead. The name comes from a
month and time it was brewed. It was invented as
a way to lessen the reliance on wine from France.
You know, in case you're feuding with the French.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
As England does occasionally occasionally.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Because this beer was meant to sub for wine, it
was brewed to be very rich and sort of soften
in flavor as time passed. There was even tradition among
rich people of having a batch brewed up when their
first son was born for him to drink when he
turned eighteen.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I love this idea, by the way. Yeah, I'm not
sure about babies, but man, if I have any, you're
doing this for sure. So put one in the positive column.
One mark plus. I guess I could just make a
beer and save it for eighteen years. But you could
maybe after eighteen years of doing this show Oh oh heck, okay,
(20:30):
plans for the future.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yes, These beers were loaded up with fresh hops up
to ten pounds of barrel. Hodgton took inspiration from this
and shipped some of this style of beer to India,
and the first batch arrived to that country in January
eighteen twenty two. Folks were so excited about it. Quote
Hodgston's warranted prime picked ale of the genuine October brewing,
(20:54):
fully equal, if not superior to any ever before received
in the settlement.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
That's pretty that's strong. Arting.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah, as other bigger brewers started imitating Hodgson and the
beer grew weaker, you know, to save money and all
that stuff, pale ale for British consumption went up. But
Hodgin's sons Mark and Frederick did not mess around. If
they got even a whiff that another brewer was looking
to make a similar product to theirs, they'd release a
(21:23):
ton of their beer and lower their prices to deter
any competition. They did away with the middleman. And here
the middleman is the East India Company, and they shipped
their beer directly to India.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Oh but I have a feeling that somebody didn't like this.
That's somebody being the East India Company.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Your feelings all correct, Lauren. In the eighteen twenties, the
East India Company's director Campbell MAJORA Banks, and I laughed
aloud when I read his name the first time, and
I just laughed aloud again.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Apologies to mister MAJORA. Banks.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
He got his hand on a bottle of Hodgin's October
beer and took it to a competitor and asked them
to make a replica. The competitor, Allsop, thought the beer
was gross. Legend has it he spit it out when
he first tried it, but he did set about making it,
and he's spared no expense. He tasked the guy behind
(22:20):
his malts to find the freshest, lightest, and finest hops
in all the land, which were then barely kilned. Another
legend goes that the brewer tried to test batch in
a tea kettle to make sure you didn't waste any
of these really expensive hops, and the test was a success.
One fellow described the beer as quote a heavenly compound
(22:43):
with an amber color and a very peculiar fine flavor.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
But possibly a lot of.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
This isn't true. It is the popular origin story of
the IPA. Records do show that at least by the
seventeen sixties, brewers were being told that it was quote
absolutely necessary to put extra hops in beer that were
destined for somewhere warmer like India. Pale Ale was being
(23:11):
advertised in India by seventeen eighty four, and about a
decade later you could find advertisements for Hodgston's pale Ale.
Specifically whether or not it had those extra hops, that's
hard to say. The first known or recipe for an
ipa didn't appear until eighteen twenty one.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
It is well known that, other things being equal, the
liquor keeps in proportion to the quantity of hops. Fresh
beer may have from a pound to a pound and
a half to a barrel of thirty two gallons June
beer two pounds and a half. Beer for the month
of August three pounds, and for a second summer three
and a half. For India voyages four pounds. Hogton recipe
(23:53):
was called quote the best and most sought after in
India in eighteen twenty nine.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Ten years later and it.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Was described as Hodgin's Ale, the universal and favorite beverage
of our vast Indian territories. The first written instance of
IPA that we know of was an eighteen thirty five
AD for Hodgson's quote.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
East India pale Ale.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Then in eighteen sixty nine we get the first written
documentation claiming that Hodgson invented the IPA quote. The origin
of India Ale is by common consent, accredited to a
London brewer named Hodgson. The brewer where pale Ale was
first brewed, according to popular opinion, was the Old Bow Brewery,
or it could be Bo Brewery.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Oh I'm not sure, not sure about a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
And a lot of historians aren't sure about that popular
opinion thing.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah, because there were a couple other breweries that had
started making I think bass had one kind of early
on and one other that I'm forgetting the name of.
But yeah, they were popular in India. They were, and
they became popular back home as well thanks to a
shipwreck in eighteen twenty seven. This is another one of
those legends that I'm not sure the veracity of, but
(25:06):
I'm tickled by it. So a hall of Ipa was
headed out to India, the story goes, but the shipwrecked
and the Irish sea and the salvaged cargo was auctioned
off in Liverpool. And after that people got a taste
for it, and it was produced widely for home markets
as well as overseas. I hope that's true. No, right,
that's great. I remember when we.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
First started this show we wanted to talk about shipwrecks.
I don't know why, but oh they're great.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I think was it because of Champagne? I think so. Yeah,
this is the first one, then, great Champagne stories about shipwrecks.
This is true. The pressure underwater, keeps it in the bottle.
It's been pulled up from the Titanic.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
It has Perhaps we will one day do our shipwreck
episode finally, but first we must finish this IPA episode.
Oh I suppose what about IPAs in the US of A.
We'll get into that after one more quick break for
a word from our sponsor.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
And we're back.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
So IPA's in the USA. They were being brewed in
the US by eighteen seventy eight. Of note is New
Jersey's Ballantine or Balentine Brewery, who were making the same
IPA until nineteen ninety six. Yeah, but we got to
talk about refrigeration. Oh, pretty important, yes, yes, because once
(26:34):
it came around India, pale ales were sort of viewed
as a thing of the past.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Well, we don't need to worry about those anymore.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Right, No need for a beer to survive a journey
on a boat unrefrigerated for six months, posh, poppy cock.
The popularity of the Czech pilsner didn't help either. I
read in a lot of places that the pilsner was
so popular it endangered a lot of other beers.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yeah, all of the research into micro organisms that were
happening at the time, and all of these clean beers
that came out, people had never tasted anything like them
because they had never been able to make such a
clean beer before, so that they were like, oh this,
I want more of this.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
And all the time, pale ales still were around, but
India pale ales not so much. The temperance movement increased
abb taxes. There are a lot of things working against
the IPA. Yeah, and that didn't change until the nineteen
seventies when Americans got into brewing in a big way.
First in nineteen seventy two when the Oregon State University's
(27:34):
USDA Breeding program released the Cascade Hop. That was an
important step. Kraft Brewers said about bringing all kinds of
old school European style beers, the IPA being one of them.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Also importantly, this was the time when laws came in
allowing craft brewing to happen.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yes, very important, but with more hops and more alcohol
because America, that's what we were doing with IPAs. San
Francisco's Anchor Brewing brewed what's seen as the first modern
American IPA in nineteen seventy five, called Liberty Ale The
first awards for IPAs in the US were given out
in nineteen eighty nine. The first official double IPA came
(28:16):
out in nineteen ninety four, by the same brewer that
released Plenty the Elder six years later. The beer is Plenty,
the guy is Pliny. Yes, we never know anymore.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
I think it's Pliny as the beer and Plenty is
the guy.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
It's all a mystery. We didn't Lenny Plinny. We did
a video on it. We tried it. Who knows anyway?
That happened six years after the first double IBA came out.
Since then, we've seen IBus of one thousand, apparently two
thousand IPAs with abvs of fifteen to twenty percent, IPAs
(28:54):
with four percent abvs, sour IPAs, milkshake IPAs. The IPA
this space for brewers to experiment, to push that bitterness envelope,
a way to push back against big beer, although big
beer has gotten on the IPA train too.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
And then, in that weird cyclical way that history works,
the American style IPA made its way back to Britain,
and now the British are making IPAs again as well
as of this.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Year, researchers created a genetically modified strain of yeast that
can produce the bitter flavors of IPAs without you needing
to add any hops to the brew. Hmm and liked
speaking of big companies. So what the researchers did. They
spliced in genetic code from mint and basil. The yeast,
eat the sugars in the malt and poop these bitter
compounds along with the alcohol and carbon dioxide. And the
(29:46):
researchers are thinking that commercial breweries could use yeasts like
these to create more consistent product in bulk, because you
wouldn't have to worry about the availability and the consistency
of hops, which, you know, being a natural product, have
natural differences. Crapped crap mm hm. I mean that sounds
a little bit heretical to me, but you know, I
(30:08):
don't know. Science is still cool. Science is cool. And
as we talked about at the top of the show,
IPAs really boomed after the turn of the twenty first century,
and since then a lot of digital inc has been
shed concerning the popularity of the style. In twenty sixteen,
one Andy Sparhawk, which is a great name, he was
(30:29):
writing for craft beer dot com and he said that
IPAs are like surrealist art. They're very obvious and very
bold and can be a good entrance to interesting beers.
You know, once you start in on IPAs, you can
start looking for more subtle and by his metaphor more
abstract flavors. Oh sort of liked that. Yeah, and it's
(30:50):
a much nicer way than many other people put the
American obsession with IPAs. This is true. And today, yeah,
craftloggers and sours are taking a bite out of IPA sales,
but industry experts still think that like the next IPA
is more IPAs.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yes, and I know right now I think the session
IPA is really popular, and that's the lower ABV and
sometimes it has fruit in it as well, so it's
kind of like sours meat ip Sure, I do love it.
It's this field for experimentation and really trying new things,
pushing the envelope.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Yeah, I'm glad that more other styles are coming up.
I felt like for a good couple of years there. Yeah,
like any brewery that I walked into was nineteen IPAs,
yeah and a pilsner, and I was like, I don't
want to drink any of these right now. Yeah, I
do love a variety. I think that's I do.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Yes, doing the research for this one, I made the
mistake of needing the comments.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Oh, and people have some.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Serious thoughts about IPAs. I mean people have serious thoughts
about everything.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Oh sure, woo. Yeah, that's wonderful. It's wonderful that there
are many beers and everyone can have opinions about them.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
This is true that we'd love to know if any
of you listeners are making IPAs.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Yeah, yeah, if you have any strong opinions about them,
one way or another. If you have a favorite one
that we need to try.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yes, oh, always send recommendations always. I got an ongoing list.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Oh yeah, and this was a very thirsty episode like
this was. I was doing most of the research for
this early in the morning, and I was still like, man,
I could use an IPA right now.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Morning beer used to be a tradition and it still
is in some places. And that brings us to the
end of this classic episode. We hope that you enjoyed
hearing it for the first time, second time, who knows
how many times, as much as we enjoyed bringing it back.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Absolutely. Yeah. Also spoiler alert, I have not started brewing
any beer, let alone a beer to age eighteen years
for savers eighteenth birthday. I've had other stuff going on.
We have a long to do list, to be honest,
we do, we do. Maybe we'll get on it sooner
(33:19):
or later. Yeah, yeah, right right now. I'm really into
rebooting my fish tank. So that's but beer brewing will
be in here somewhere not related to the fish tank.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
All right, well, I want updates on both, Lauren, We'll do,
We'll do, yes, well, in the meantime, listeners, if you
would like to contact us, if you have done any
beer brewing.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Oh yeah, if you have opinions about IPAs or sours
or anything else. If you have a fish tank, if
you oh yeah, oh my goodness, I want to hear
about your I want to hear about your fish or
other forms of aquatic life, all of these things. Please
let us know.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
You can email us at Hello at saborpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
We're also on social media. You can find us on
Instagram and blue Sky at saber pod, and we do
hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks us always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
(34:28):
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way.
Hello, and welcome to Saber Protection of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we
have a classic episode for you about IPAs.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Yes, and I have to say, in typical Saber fashion,
I've forgotten we'd done this episode, and when I saw
your message about it, I thought you were suggesting a
new topic.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Oh freaked out.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh no, okay, Oh I don't have the capacity for
that right now.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
But we've already done it. Yeah, congratulations. That was a
problem for past Danny.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, yeah, so so IPA's India palel beers. We did this,
And to be fair, we did this episode back in
October of twenty eighteen, which was a minute ago. Yes,
thank you, Lauren. Hey, yeah, no, just it's a true fact.
It's a true fact.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Was there any particular reason this was on your mind?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I was just I was just looking through stuff and
and alcohol was sort of up in the rotation, and
uh yeah yeah. So I was like, oh, this is
a good one. It goes places, it's interesting, and we
don't do myth busting ourselves, but there are some myths
that are busted. I think that this one. I think
(01:29):
that like late twenty eighteen was circa the height to
like the slight downturn of IPA's being completely unavoidable in
every brewery. I think it was like right before sours
(01:50):
suddenly became the unavoidable thing in every craft brewery, and
the hour trend has continued as of twenty twenty five.
This year, sours have had fastest growth of a style
in terms of new launches this year, but IPAs are
still the best selling style of craft beer. It is
(02:12):
just a powerhouse. And this is even in the face
of like changing drinking habits, which has also been a
big thing since October of twenty eighteen. Like beer sales
in general have been a bit down the past couple
of years due to a number of factors, but for example,
sales of non alcoholic beers in bars and restaurants is
(02:36):
up by about a third, and IPAs are leading that
category with a one hundred and seventy percent growth rate
year over year. Wow, Yeah, they're a big dew. Yeah
they have been for a while. They certainly have. And
so without further ado, let's let former Annie and Lauren
(02:57):
take it away. Hello, and welcome to Savor. I'm Annie
Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we're talking about IPAs.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
IPA's which, in case you didn't know, Super India pale ale.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yes, it's a beer style and it's a very popular
beer style. It's sort of like v beer style of
the American craft scene, which is why we wanted to
talk about it during this Ashville stravaganza that we are
embarked upon. Did your trademark that not yet? You better
get on it. People are gonna want that. I'm sure
(03:41):
they are.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah, they're rushing to the patent offices. I think that's
how it works.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, I don't know. Sure.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Well. I was telling Lauren before we started recording that
I've always been a person who said I don't like IPAs,
But doing the research for this episode, I realized I
do like IPAs. But there was kind of this ipa
arms race where they were everywhere and bad ones were everywhere.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah, and it was too many.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yes, So I think I just don't like bad ivas.
But there are some IPAs out there. For me. There's
one I always get because it reminds me of the
day I broke up, which is a weird thing that
I do.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
But it's a good.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Iva.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
That is an interesting bit of nostalgia. It is, isn't it.
I like it? Oh? Yeah, I remember that. We've been
researching nostalgia all day. Yeah, and so I'm like, okay,
I'm going to follow up with you about this later.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Oh, excellent, dive into my psyche. That's a dark podcast,
all right. Moving on from that, let's get to our
question IPAs.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
What are they? Well, India pale ales are a style
of beer made from a light roasted malt and lots
of hops, which lets the hops really shine and creates
these bright, bitter flavors. But let's get a little bit
more granular than that. And that's almost a pun because
I'm about to talk about grains. I'm working on it. Yeah,
(05:08):
so okay. Beer. Beer is an alcoholic beverage made from
malted grain, water, and yeast. You boil the malt in
water to release sugars, then add the yeast, which eats
those sugars and poops carbon dioxide alcohol and flavor Ooo yeast,
please poop again. Yeah. You can also add other stuff
to flavor beer, like hops, to balance those sweet flavors
(05:31):
from the malt and the yeast. Most modern beer does
contain hops, and hops are the flower of this climbing
plant that adds flavors to beer, especially bitter flavors and
super bonus. Inhibits the growth of unwanted microorganisms, especially bacteria,
in your beer. They also help stabilize beer's foam. And
I really want to do a whole episode on hops. Now.
(05:52):
This is a very pared down version of what it is,
but u Yes, hops can be added to beer right
at the beginning of that boil with the malt that's
going to extract the maximum amount of acids from the
hops and thus the maximum bitterness. Or you can add
them towards the end of the boil for more delicate
oil based flavors, or after the boil entirely when the
(06:14):
liquid has cooled, for even more of those fresh oil
based flavors. That third one is called dry hopping. By
the way, if you've ever seen that phrase and not
understood what it meant, now you know. Now you know.
Knowing is half the beering. You can also use a
combination of these three hop processes, and all will yield
slightly different results with different varieties of hops, but in
general hops equal bitter.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yes, we made a video with a local distillery that
is not right brewery called Orpheus, and they let us
try straight up hops.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
And it was quite bitter. It was, Yes, I have
video evidence of it. Oh yeah, I think for a
good like twenty minutes after I tasted that tiny little
granule of hop, like, I was like a cat trying
to like wipe the scent off of my face. Oh no,
what have I done?
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah, it was like bitter soap. It was like soap,
but even more bitter.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah. I mean I actually sort of enjoyed the sensation.
But that just says something about me probably. Any Way,
How bitter are we talking about here? Yeah? How bitter? Well,
let's talk about IBU or international bitterness units or bittering units.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
SCIENTI.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
That is a good way to know what beer you'll
like on a menu. I'll tell you that. It's certainly helpful.
It's a scale that's meant to help brewers and drinkers
gauge how bitter a beer will taste. You might have
seen it listed next to beers on menus or on bottles.
We certainly saw this in Ashville. And it's a measurement
of sort of one type of bitterness in beer. The
parts per million of several bittering compounds that beer contains,
(07:51):
and these compounds tend to come in with hops. Most
beers you will drink range from like five to one
hundred and twenty IBus, with the higher scores indicating higher
content of those bitter and compounds. IPAs, because of their
hop content, tend to veer towards the upper end of
that and interestingly, IBus like Scoville units, technically go to infinity.
(08:15):
Oh oh no, there have been beers measured with over
two thousand IBus. Did people survive after drinking them? I
haven't read reports back, but I assume that they Yeah,
I've read reviews, so they did live to tell the tale,
at least temporarily, at least for a little bit. Yeah,
(08:37):
but a lot of other factors in your beer will
influence how bitter the beer will actually taste to you.
You know, all kinds of things can go into the experience.
Like a stout can technically have a higher IBU rating
than a pal ale, which you would think of you know,
I don't know anyway, but yeah, ib's can give you
a good rough idea.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah, and the food also can determine how bitter it
is to you too. If you're enjoying it with food.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Oh sure, absolutely, Yeah, good spicy food is good with
an ipa. I hear. Oh it's lovely, Okay, great, Yeah,
and Fitton Glenn talked about that when we were in Asheville.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
I really love a super hoppy ipa with spicy Mexican
food because I mean, laggers are great with Mexican food,
but you can't taste them once you've got those chili's
on your palette, whereas a bitter beer will actually cut
the intensity of the chili, so everybody of chili is
(09:33):
like that much more intense, which I love.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
She's a beer historian and we had a great conversation
with her. But yeah, let's talk about some of those
styles of IPAs, because there are a bunch. There are
a bunch.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
There are more than we included, and more than I've
ever heard of, honestly. But here here's a good rundown
of them.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
First, we've got traditional IPAs. Those are going to be
your English IPAs, made with English yeast, malt, and and
they tend to be a little bit more gentle on
the bitterness, even perhaps toasty and stone fruity. No, not
in an ipa. My goodness me monsters. They stand in
(10:16):
stark contrast to most American IPAs, the West Coast ipa
being the original. The original.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
These are usually fruitier, citrusier, floralier, pineer pineer.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, usually very bitter and hoppy. Then you've got East
Coast IPAs because of course, like I have some competitions
you do. These are more like English IPAs. They're a
little bit more balanced between the sweetness of the malt
and the bitterness of the hops, but are not to
be confused with.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
New England IPAs, also called hazy IPAs, and these are
a relatively Newish style of ipa that are typically a
bit juicier and hazier. There was a whole thing where
the Brewers Association had to update their IPA guidelines to
include juicy and hazy IPAs since the clear color was
(11:08):
a part of the way beer judges would mark a
beer an ipa. This happened in twenty eighteen. Oh wow,
so very recent breaking news. The hops associated with these
IPAs are Mosaic, Citra and Galaxy, which are also relatively Newish.
The yeast use in New England IPAs are different as well.
They produce more esters and in part a bit of
(11:31):
a sweeter, fruitier taste. Then there's the double imperial IPA.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
A double or imperial. Yes, yes, not the double imperial,
all those that kind of does exist. Yeah, I guess
you could do a quadruple IPA if you wanted to
think people have goodness. We haven't.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
We didn't include it, but I believe it exists. The
double or imperial came about as American brewers got more
and more heavy handed with their hops, and we got
a new category of IPA.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Then, of course triple IPAs, which are even more hops,
even higher abvs. And I think I've used that a
couple of times without explaining it. ABV stands for alcohol
by volume.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yes, yes, there are session IPAs, which are lower ABV, lighter,
easier drinking.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Belgian IPAs, which are usually not from Belgium, but they
will use Belgian yiese strains after bottling to create carbonation
and that kind of Belgianese sweet flavor. You've got. Black
IPAs aka Cascadian dark ales. These are dry and dark,
with a kind of chocolate or coffee bitterness in addition
to the usual citrus bitterness thanks to some roasted malt.
(12:37):
You've got white IPAs, red IPAs, brown rye, oat, lactose, bread, fruit,
and sour. Anything that you can do to a beerd
you can do to an ipa, and then it creates
a new little subcategory. It's sort of like gremlins. It's
sort of they just sort of all just pop off
from the main.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Well happens if you give a gremlin an ipa after midnight.
I shout out to think someone researched that.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Now.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Other terms that you might come across in IPA's are
single hopped and fresh hopped. Single hopped is what it
says on the box, Just a single variety of hops
were used in making that beer instead of a blend.
And fresh hopped beers are a maid using hops that
have been picked within the past twenty four hours, so
they have like a lot of fresh, bold flavor, and
(13:24):
they're usually meant to be consumed right away to get
like that just mouthful of grass that you might be
looking for. Sure.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
One of our first stops when we went to Asheville
was that Sierra Nevada's brewery.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
They're outpost in Asheville.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
All right, yeah, and I can't remember, I know I
got one that when I tasted it. It could evolve
and in my head, but the hops tasted very fresh
and like bright and grassy.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
It was nice.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah, if you're into that sort of thing, it can
be quite nice.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
If you're not, it can be quite disgusting, very brave racing, indeed,
But that did not stop folks from making IPAs. I
don't think we can stress enough how much growth IPAs
have experienced in the past few decades. In the early nineties,
bartenders might not have known what you were talking about
(14:16):
when you asked for one. Craft brewing has a lot
to do with our increased societal awareness around IPAs and
our increased options.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Oh yeah, the growth of craft beer and IPAs have
gone pretty hand in hand. If you look at the
period of twenty eight to twenty fifteen, the production of
craft beer in the United States tripled in volume during
that time. IPAs in two thousand and eight were just
eight percent of the craft market, but sales of craft
IPAs rose thirty nine percent over the course of twenty
(14:47):
twelve alone, becoming sixteen percent of the market by the
end of that year, and then they rose again fifty
percent on top of that over the course of twenty fourteen.
At the end of twenty fourteen, they were twenty three
percent of the craft market and they were not done growing.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Of the US craft beer market, IPA's accounted for thirty
percent of that and twenty fifteen just up and up
and up.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
This means that production of IPA's multiplied by more than
ten times in just seven years, and they are still
the biggest category of craft beer in the United States.
We got a lot of IPAs, we do. But how
did this happen? I don't know, No, I do, yeah,
pretty much. Yes, Yes, we've got some history for you,
but first we've got a quick break for a word
(15:31):
from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I would wager that a lot of you listeners have
probably heard some version of the IPA's history.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
A lot of you have.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Probably heard some version of the same type of story.
But I'm going to be straight with you, listeners, I
don't know for sure how much of that is true.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yeah, it's one of those serious mysteries of history kind
of kind of things. But we're going to walk through
some of the legends here.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, and there are certainly some facts where all of
this spring.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
From yes with.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
So, yeah, we'll go over the main stories you're likely
to find about the IPA.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
But first a little bit of setup. Yes, So, by
the mid seventeen hundreds, pale ales were all the rage
in England thanks to this new heating technology. Prior to
that time a wood or pete or charcoal were they
fuel sources used to roast malt, and this gave beers
a dark color and sort of deep smoky flavors. But
(16:41):
back in the sixteen hundreds, folks working with coal had
derived a new fuel called coke, which burned hotter and
faster than anything anyone had seen before. It drove industrial
development from iron to steel to glass and also made
its way into brewing. Malt could be finished without so
much smoke by using coke. The resulting malt was paler
(17:02):
and tasted cleaner than malts roasted with wood or whatever,
And so the resulting pale ales using these malts were
more expensive, but very posh and let the flavor of
any hops you added shine through more clearly.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Right, But when it comes to India and the British
Empire's presence in India, the temperature there was not ideal
for beer brewing no, it was too hot. On top
of that, the journey took about six months from Britain
to India, so you had to factor in that travel
time to whatever you were planning on surviving that trip
(17:36):
in good.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Shape because there were no refrigerators.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yes, good reminder when it comes to beer, that means
more hops. Hops act as a preservative. A brewer out
of seventeen eighties London, George Hodgson, came up with the
idea for a heavily hopped beer called october Ale, which
normally would have been aged sort of like wine when
it reached India. Turns out well, it improved with age
(18:02):
hizah because India was so much hotter than Britain. It
eventually was modified to be paler and lighter, or, depending
on what story you hear, the extra hops mass the
fact that the beer is rotten. Brew Master George Sapiro
over at C. H. Evans Brewing Company said of the
higher alcohol content in this ipa the october Al quote,
(18:24):
it probably kept the people on the other end happy
that they were drinking it. You'll get intoxicated much faster
and maybe forget you are posted far from home in India,
or it could be because alcohol is a preservative, could
be sure.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Sure. That's one version of the story.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Another version is that dark Porters, which were popular in
London where the weather was cooler, were the beer that
British posted in India were stuck with for a while,
and stuck with because porters aren't exactly the best the
drink of choice, we'll say for hot weather situations.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Do you think of them more as a cool weather beer? Sure? Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
And on top of that, they arrived lukewarm, which apparently
was not ideal either. Hodgson was a supplier and he
tried all sorts of things to improve the quality of
his product and keep his eighteen month contract that he
had with the East India company. He sent unfermented beer
(19:23):
and would add the East once it derived at its destination.
That didn't really work. He sent beer concentrate to be
deluded when it arrived.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
It didn't really work.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Then he came off the idea of sending a pale
ale that October Ale instead. The name comes from a
month and time it was brewed. It was invented as
a way to lessen the reliance on wine from France.
You know, in case you're feuding with the French.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
As England does occasionally occasionally.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Because this beer was meant to sub for wine, it
was brewed to be very rich and sort of soften
in flavor as time passed. There was even tradition among
rich people of having a batch brewed up when their
first son was born for him to drink when he
turned eighteen.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I love this idea, by the way. Yeah, I'm not
sure about babies, but man, if I have any, you're
doing this for sure. So put one in the positive column.
One mark plus. I guess I could just make a
beer and save it for eighteen years. But you could
maybe after eighteen years of doing this show Oh oh heck, okay,
(20:30):
plans for the future.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yes, These beers were loaded up with fresh hops up
to ten pounds of barrel. Hodgton took inspiration from this
and shipped some of this style of beer to India,
and the first batch arrived to that country in January
eighteen twenty two. Folks were so excited about it. Quote
Hodgston's warranted prime picked ale of the genuine October brewing,
(20:54):
fully equal, if not superior to any ever before received
in the settlement.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
That's pretty that's strong. Arting.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah, as other bigger brewers started imitating Hodgson and the
beer grew weaker, you know, to save money and all
that stuff, pale ale for British consumption went up. But
Hodgin's sons Mark and Frederick did not mess around. If
they got even a whiff that another brewer was looking
to make a similar product to theirs, they'd release a
(21:23):
ton of their beer and lower their prices to deter
any competition. They did away with the middleman. And here
the middleman is the East India Company, and they shipped
their beer directly to India.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Oh but I have a feeling that somebody didn't like this.
That's somebody being the East India Company.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Your feelings all correct, Lauren. In the eighteen twenties, the
East India Company's director Campbell MAJORA Banks, and I laughed
aloud when I read his name the first time, and
I just laughed aloud again.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Apologies to mister MAJORA. Banks.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
He got his hand on a bottle of Hodgin's October
beer and took it to a competitor and asked them
to make a replica. The competitor, Allsop, thought the beer
was gross. Legend has it he spit it out when
he first tried it, but he did set about making it,
and he's spared no expense. He tasked the guy behind
(22:20):
his malts to find the freshest, lightest, and finest hops
in all the land, which were then barely kilned. Another
legend goes that the brewer tried to test batch in
a tea kettle to make sure you didn't waste any
of these really expensive hops, and the test was a success.
One fellow described the beer as quote a heavenly compound
(22:43):
with an amber color and a very peculiar fine flavor.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
But possibly a lot of.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
This isn't true. It is the popular origin story of
the IPA. Records do show that at least by the
seventeen sixties, brewers were being told that it was quote
absolutely necessary to put extra hops in beer that were
destined for somewhere warmer like India. Pale Ale was being
(23:11):
advertised in India by seventeen eighty four, and about a
decade later you could find advertisements for Hodgston's pale Ale.
Specifically whether or not it had those extra hops, that's
hard to say. The first known or recipe for an
ipa didn't appear until eighteen twenty one.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
It is well known that, other things being equal, the
liquor keeps in proportion to the quantity of hops. Fresh
beer may have from a pound to a pound and
a half to a barrel of thirty two gallons June
beer two pounds and a half. Beer for the month
of August three pounds, and for a second summer three
and a half. For India voyages four pounds. Hogton recipe
(23:53):
was called quote the best and most sought after in
India in eighteen twenty nine.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Ten years later and it.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Was described as Hodgin's Ale, the universal and favorite beverage
of our vast Indian territories. The first written instance of
IPA that we know of was an eighteen thirty five
AD for Hodgson's quote.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
East India pale Ale.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Then in eighteen sixty nine we get the first written
documentation claiming that Hodgson invented the IPA quote. The origin
of India Ale is by common consent, accredited to a
London brewer named Hodgson. The brewer where pale Ale was
first brewed, according to popular opinion, was the Old Bow Brewery,
or it could be Bo Brewery.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Oh I'm not sure, not sure about a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
And a lot of historians aren't sure about that popular
opinion thing.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah, because there were a couple other breweries that had
started making I think bass had one kind of early
on and one other that I'm forgetting the name of.
But yeah, they were popular in India. They were, and
they became popular back home as well thanks to a
shipwreck in eighteen twenty seven. This is another one of
those legends that I'm not sure the veracity of, but
(25:06):
I'm tickled by it. So a hall of Ipa was
headed out to India, the story goes, but the shipwrecked
and the Irish sea and the salvaged cargo was auctioned
off in Liverpool. And after that people got a taste
for it, and it was produced widely for home markets
as well as overseas. I hope that's true. No, right,
that's great. I remember when we.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
First started this show we wanted to talk about shipwrecks.
I don't know why, but oh they're great.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I think was it because of Champagne? I think so. Yeah,
this is the first one, then, great Champagne stories about shipwrecks.
This is true. The pressure underwater, keeps it in the bottle.
It's been pulled up from the Titanic.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
It has Perhaps we will one day do our shipwreck
episode finally, but first we must finish this IPA episode.
Oh I suppose what about IPAs in the US of A.
We'll get into that after one more quick break for
a word from our sponsor.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
And we're back.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
So IPA's in the USA. They were being brewed in
the US by eighteen seventy eight. Of note is New
Jersey's Ballantine or Balentine Brewery, who were making the same
IPA until nineteen ninety six. Yeah, but we got to
talk about refrigeration. Oh, pretty important, yes, yes, because once
(26:34):
it came around India, pale ales were sort of viewed
as a thing of the past.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Well, we don't need to worry about those anymore.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Right, No need for a beer to survive a journey
on a boat unrefrigerated for six months, posh, poppy cock.
The popularity of the Czech pilsner didn't help either. I
read in a lot of places that the pilsner was
so popular it endangered a lot of other beers.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yeah, all of the research into micro organisms that were
happening at the time, and all of these clean beers
that came out, people had never tasted anything like them
because they had never been able to make such a
clean beer before, so that they were like, oh this,
I want more of this.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
And all the time, pale ales still were around, but
India pale ales not so much. The temperance movement increased
abb taxes. There are a lot of things working against
the IPA. Yeah, and that didn't change until the nineteen
seventies when Americans got into brewing in a big way.
First in nineteen seventy two when the Oregon State University's
(27:34):
USDA Breeding program released the Cascade Hop. That was an
important step. Kraft Brewers said about bringing all kinds of
old school European style beers, the IPA being one of them.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Also importantly, this was the time when laws came in
allowing craft brewing to happen.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yes, very important, but with more hops and more alcohol
because America, that's what we were doing with IPAs. San
Francisco's Anchor Brewing brewed what's seen as the first modern
American IPA in nineteen seventy five, called Liberty Ale The
first awards for IPAs in the US were given out
in nineteen eighty nine. The first official double IPA came
(28:16):
out in nineteen ninety four, by the same brewer that
released Plenty the Elder six years later. The beer is Plenty,
the guy is Pliny. Yes, we never know anymore.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
I think it's Pliny as the beer and Plenty is
the guy.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
It's all a mystery. We didn't Lenny Plinny. We did
a video on it. We tried it. Who knows anyway?
That happened six years after the first double IBA came out.
Since then, we've seen IBus of one thousand, apparently two
thousand IPAs with abvs of fifteen to twenty percent, IPAs
(28:54):
with four percent abvs, sour IPAs, milkshake IPAs. The IPA
this space for brewers to experiment, to push that bitterness envelope,
a way to push back against big beer, although big
beer has gotten on the IPA train too.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
And then, in that weird cyclical way that history works,
the American style IPA made its way back to Britain,
and now the British are making IPAs again as well
as of this.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Year, researchers created a genetically modified strain of yeast that
can produce the bitter flavors of IPAs without you needing
to add any hops to the brew. Hmm and liked
speaking of big companies. So what the researchers did. They
spliced in genetic code from mint and basil. The yeast,
eat the sugars in the malt and poop these bitter
compounds along with the alcohol and carbon dioxide. And the
(29:46):
researchers are thinking that commercial breweries could use yeasts like
these to create more consistent product in bulk, because you
wouldn't have to worry about the availability and the consistency
of hops, which, you know, being a natural product, have
natural differences. Crapped crap mm hm. I mean that sounds
a little bit heretical to me, but you know, I
(30:08):
don't know. Science is still cool. Science is cool. And
as we talked about at the top of the show,
IPAs really boomed after the turn of the twenty first century,
and since then a lot of digital inc has been
shed concerning the popularity of the style. In twenty sixteen,
one Andy Sparhawk, which is a great name, he was
(30:29):
writing for craft beer dot com and he said that
IPAs are like surrealist art. They're very obvious and very
bold and can be a good entrance to interesting beers.
You know, once you start in on IPAs, you can
start looking for more subtle and by his metaphor more
abstract flavors. Oh sort of liked that. Yeah, and it's
(30:50):
a much nicer way than many other people put the
American obsession with IPAs. This is true. And today, yeah,
craftloggers and sours are taking a bite out of IPA sales,
but industry experts still think that like the next IPA
is more IPAs.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yes, and I know right now I think the session
IPA is really popular, and that's the lower ABV and
sometimes it has fruit in it as well, so it's
kind of like sours meat ip Sure, I do love it.
It's this field for experimentation and really trying new things,
pushing the envelope.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Yeah, I'm glad that more other styles are coming up.
I felt like for a good couple of years there. Yeah,
like any brewery that I walked into was nineteen IPAs,
yeah and a pilsner, and I was like, I don't
want to drink any of these right now. Yeah, I
do love a variety. I think that's I do.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Yes, doing the research for this one, I made the
mistake of needing the comments.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Oh, and people have some.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Serious thoughts about IPAs. I mean people have serious thoughts
about everything.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Oh sure, woo. Yeah, that's wonderful. It's wonderful that there
are many beers and everyone can have opinions about them.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
This is true that we'd love to know if any
of you listeners are making IPAs.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Yeah, yeah, if you have any strong opinions about them,
one way or another. If you have a favorite one
that we need to try.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yes, oh, always send recommendations always. I got an ongoing list.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Oh yeah, and this was a very thirsty episode like
this was. I was doing most of the research for
this early in the morning, and I was still like, man,
I could use an IPA right now.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Morning beer used to be a tradition and it still
is in some places. And that brings us to the
end of this classic episode. We hope that you enjoyed
hearing it for the first time, second time, who knows
how many times, as much as we enjoyed bringing it back.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Absolutely. Yeah. Also spoiler alert, I have not started brewing
any beer, let alone a beer to age eighteen years
for savers eighteenth birthday. I've had other stuff going on.
We have a long to do list, to be honest,
we do, we do. Maybe we'll get on it sooner
(33:19):
or later. Yeah, yeah, right right now. I'm really into
rebooting my fish tank. So that's but beer brewing will
be in here somewhere not related to the fish tank.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
All right, well, I want updates on both, Lauren, We'll do,
We'll do, yes, well, in the meantime, listeners, if you
would like to contact us, if you have done any
beer brewing.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Oh yeah, if you have opinions about IPAs or sours
or anything else. If you have a fish tank, if
you oh yeah, oh my goodness, I want to hear
about your I want to hear about your fish or
other forms of aquatic life, all of these things. Please
let us know.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
You can email us at Hello at saborpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
We're also on social media. You can find us on
Instagram and blue Sky at saber pod, and we do
hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks us always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
(34:28):
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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