March 22, 2023 • 29 mins
This star-shaped spice adds warmth to sweet and savory dishes, plus drinks of all kinds, in cuisines around the world. Anney and Lauren dig into the science and history of star anise.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor Prodiction of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie
Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an
episode for you about star Annis. Yes, and we believe
that's the pronunciation. Yeah, star Anise. Maybe I don't know,
but since Annis other Annis is pronounced Annis, then we're
(00:29):
just gonna go with that. Yeah, I think that makes sense, sure,
but correct as if we're incorrect. Yeah. Yeah, Oh, this
one was. It was a bit difficult in terms of
the research, but it was a fun one. Did you
have any particular reason what was on your mind? Um?
(00:51):
I think that I've been wanting to do five spice
for a long time and that was on my mind.
And then I was like, no, not today, too much,
too much, too much, um. And then I arrived at
one of the frequent ingredients, star Annis, Yes, which I
have not used in my personal Oh really no, I
(01:14):
mean I've used like five spice and I've used Gara Massala,
but I haven't used star Annis. Oh yeah, I mean
I've got like a your decab Farmer's market tub of
it in my kitchen. Like I've definitely used it in
mulled wine kind of application. And I think i've ground
it for for spice ones. Yeah yeah, so nice, so nice?
(01:35):
All right, Well another thing for the meal, huge, huge
banquet we're gonna have. Uh well, yes, you can see
our Annis episodes also fun if it's a big ingredient
in that um sechuan, pepper, cinnamon, cloves, masala, chi, fennel, liquorice,
(01:58):
it like pops up in a lot of other stories, sure, um,
a lot of other delicious, delicious stories. It doesn't. And
it's beautiful like it looks like something you'd see in
a video game, like you'd collect right. Oh gosh, it does.
Oh I didn't use that in my description, but that's
a good one. Yes, I suppose that brings us to
(02:22):
our question. Does star Annis what is it? Well? Uh?
Star Annis is a type of small star shaped seed
pod that is dried and used as a spice hole
or ground. It has a really lovely like like warm
and spicy flavor that involves sort of like a like
(02:45):
a bouquet of liquorice and clove and mint and woods
with it, with a little bit of sweetness too. It's
used a whole to flavor soups and stews and drinks.
Though you wouldn't want to eat a whole. It's sort
of bark like in texture, or it can be ground
and used in all kinds of sweet and savory dishes
and drinks. It's um. It's like a more round and
(03:08):
soft flavored version of annis um, because Annis can be
a little bit bitter and almost pikeant sort of um.
It's it's like it's like if a It's like if
a star and in a stained glass window, or like
a marble carving just popped out and was just so
bright and warm and nice tasting. Um. It's like it's
(03:30):
like a whole season's worth of warm nights condensed into
a little star. You should have a book of poetry, Lauren,
and it's just describing foods in this manner because it's beautiful.
Publishers get in touch. Yes, better, heck savor cookbook. We've
(03:56):
been ball and keeps saying we should do it. Maybe
we should. I don't know, yeah, I keeps saying I'm
not a cook. I know, what do you have? Ravioli
and hot sauce? There you go, which could be good? Sure,
I give it like a nerd name. Yeah, oh sure,
(04:16):
right right, totally, Yeah, all my recipes would just be
stews that I've substituted in carrots and celery and to
teos for onions and garlic and bell peppers. So there
might be a market for that. Actually, you might mean
maybe maybe we're onto something anyway. Anyway, star annis Is
(04:38):
is right unrelated to annis um. It got its name
because it has a sort of similar flavor profile and
the seed pod is a star shape um. A star
annis is actually the whole fruit of an evergreen tropical
to subtropical shrub or tree. It's related to like magnolia
and bay um. If you're familiar with magnolia, the plant
(05:00):
does look a lot like a slightly smaller version of that,
with these broad, glossy green leaves. It'll bear sort of
spindly looking little starburst shaped flowers and white to yellow
to pink to crimson, which, if pollinated, we'll develop this
kind of bulbous sort of video gamy star shaped fruit
that may be green to reddish in color. The fruit
(05:24):
is harvested and dried, resulting in a sort of shriveled
brown to reddish pod up to about an inch or
three centimeters across, with six to eight arms, each of
which will sort of pinch on the bottom and then
open on the top to reveal a single, smooth, oblong seed.
(05:44):
If you allowed the fruit to fully ripen and begin
to dry on the tree, the seeds would actually or
that the pods would actually burst open and propel the
seed outward. Love this well, sounds kind of mining to me.
Very cool. Cool. I am menacing, I I it's a
(06:06):
little bit alieny, but I don't think it's quite as
menacing as that. Okay, I think there's a spectrum of menacing,
and this is towards the mildly yeah yeah, okay, yeah um.
Although speaking of menace, uh. I will note here that
the edible species of star Annis is a botanical name
(06:27):
Elysium varum, sometimes called Shinese star annis. There are other
species in the genus that are toxic when eaten, including
the botanical name Elysium anisatum. Yeah, anisatum that sounds right, um,
sometimes called Japanese star anise um. That one has been
used in incense. But yeah, don't, don't. Don't eat ones
that are not Elysium varum. No, don't do it. Don't
(06:50):
do it. One of the few times I'll tell you
not to do something is when it's actually toxic. Um.
The whole dried pod of the edible kind of star
anna can be simmered in whatever you're simmering, or yes
ground and incorporated into recipes that way. It's oil content
can also be extracted and sold for use that that's
mostly like a commercial product and not used directly by
(07:12):
consumers that often. I think that in general, European cuisines
mostly use star annis in sweeter applications like to flavor
baked goods and alcoholic beverages like galiano and some gins,
maybe in mulled wine or like a flavored coffee kind
of situation. Asian cuisines tend to lean more towards savory.
(07:36):
Perhaps it is one of the ingredients in five spice.
It shows up in soups like fuh all kinds of
other poaching and braising liquids, and in various South Asian
spice blends aka masalas. But right, it's also in chai
masala and candies and baked goods, and it is furthermore
a super popular like flavor or scent in personal care
(08:00):
products like toothpaste and motion m I feel like I
need to find some of this for you, Annie, because
you shouldn't really have meant and the sounds delightful. I agree,
No no fighting from me. I am totally into it.
I did love reading from people who loved the scent
(08:21):
of it. They would specifically talk about kind of the scent. Yeah,
there are big fans of starness, I'll say, oh absolutely
absolutely m Although additionally, one of the chemical compounds that
it contains is um sachemic acid, which is a chemical
(08:43):
precursor to one of the active ingredients in tamiflu, which
is that medication that's meant to like lessen the symptoms
and length of influenza infections. Extracts of star annis have
been used for that. So yeah, yeah, yeah, it's been
used for all kinds of things. Oh yeah absolutely. Mm. Well,
(09:04):
speaking up, what about the nutrition? You are generally not
consuming enough to make any kind of nutritive difference. Um,
but yeah, other compounds and star annis are being investigated
for various medical potentials. You know, like like cook with
it if you enjoy it, but like savor motto, like
(09:24):
like bodies are complicated. More researchers necessary before consuming a
medicinal amount of anything. Consult with a medical professional who
is not usum, but yeah, it's really cool. Oh man,
Like I like, I saw all kinds of research that
I was like, Lauren, no um. But I saw things
(09:45):
for everything like like using it as a as a
pest control, not necessarily like to kill the pests, but
to ward them off kind of, um, all the way
up to interrupting bacterial bacterial colony that are participating in
like bacterial quorum sensing or biofilm creation, so not necessarily
(10:07):
like killing the bacteria, but just preventing them from working
together effectively. So I'm like, what, that's so great? That
is cool. Ah, that's cool anyway. Yeah, I mean there's
a lot going on with Starinus. Well, we have some
numbers for you, kind of We have like one and
a half numbers. Yeah. Well the first one is China
(10:31):
is the largest producer. Uh huh. Vietnam comes in a
pretty distant second, but still together they produce about ninety
percent of the world's supply, which is about twenty five
tons a year just there. So a little bit over that.
I didn't do the math and I'm too lazy to
think through it right now, but a little bit more
(10:51):
than that. It's the global production. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and
that makes sense given the history it does. It does, yes,
which we will get into after a quick break for
a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes,
(11:16):
thank you. Um so okay. Star Annis is fairly old.
It is a type of basal angiosperm, meaning that it
is a plant that diverged from other flowering plants like
pretty early on. So so it's also botanically interesting because
it has characteristics of a lot of very different plants
(11:39):
that developed afterward. And researchers think that pungent oils in
plants like these developed some one hundred and fifty million
years ago or so, which is a number that makes
total sense to me. I know how to comprehend that
for meadows, like really nope, zero, that was sarcasm. Sometimes
sarcasm guy, because my sarcasm voice sounds very much like
(12:04):
my regular voice. Well, it's a skilled. Mark it off
as a skill. Skipping away ahead. Staranis grows natively and
Southeast Asia, China and Vietnam specifically, where it has been
used culinarily and medicinally for over three thousand years, and
(12:28):
people used it as a curative for all kinds of things,
particularly like cold and the symptoms associated with cold and
just general pain. Yeah. Yeah. In traditional Chinese medicine, it's
considered a warming agent. So yeah, right, And the tree
was prized in some cultures. I read that it was
(12:48):
often planted near tombs and temples in Japan, for instance,
where it was also used medicinally. That's kind of a
common thread throughout this. I also read in some places
that in Chinese culture or finding an eight points pause
of Starnas was huge as lucky. Okay, I would love
(13:08):
if someone could write in to confirm that. In some places,
I even read that it was so highly valued it
was used to pay off war reparations in China in
nine hundred and seventy CE, So it was, it was prized, Yeah,
it was loved. Yes. It spread along trade routes to
the rest of Asia, to the Middle East, where it
(13:30):
eventually wound up in all kinds of dishes and spice
mixes like curry soups, teas, rice dishes, drinks, all kinds
of things, sometimes even as a substitute for annis, especially
in commercial drinks. That kind of happened a little bit later.
But yeah, okay, separate episode. But Garamasala is believed to
(13:52):
have originated in northern India in the thirteenth century. Meanwhile,
Chinese five Oh my gosh, I read it could go
as far back as the fourth century BC in southern China,
which is another separate episode. But like wreath perusal that
(14:13):
I did, fascinating. Oh yeah, oh yeah, um, just just
little little tidbit from that. It's not called five spice
because it contains literally five spices. It's called that because
it is balancing five elements of flavor. Right, So yeah,
so it goes I think stuff to blow your mind.
(14:35):
Did an episode on it back in the day. Fascinating history, okay,
but but anyway to continue, Yes, yes, when star ennis
was introduced to Europe in the sixteenth or seventeenth century,
I saw a couple of dates. Um, it was added
to a wide variety of items, especially baked goods, jams
(14:57):
liqueurs Europeans did. I'd use it medicinally as well, for
things like colic and babies. That was one of the
big ones. Stomach inflammation as a sedative, as an analgesic.
The list goes on and on and on, and then
it traveled along Tea roots through Russia to get to Russia,
where it was allegedly added to tea on the Star's court. Okay,
(15:21):
all right, it sounds like it's a great ingredient. T
so h. There is a popular story that I could
not verify, but popularly told that Englishman Sir Thomas Cavendish
of Banana Fame Banana Fame, introduced this spice from the
Philippines to Europe in fifteen eighty eight ish the date varies,
(15:45):
and because of this, that's where many Europeans believed that
star Annis came. They thought it came from the Philippines. Yeah,
I read that a lot too, but I didn't look
into it, to be honest. So if you if you
say that you couldn't find evidence, then yeah, I couldn't
find it more than like fun fact right things. But anyway,
(16:07):
beginning in the eighteen hundreds, French colonizers in Vietnam aware
growing starranis was essential to the livelihood of so many
And yes, this is one of the reasons why I
ended up in fuh They started exporting starinis oil while
China exported their own oil out of Hong Kong. So
(16:29):
this was kind of a big big thing at the time.
Jumping ahead to the early two thousands, the demand for
star Annis exploded when pharmaceutical giant Roche started buying up
like ninety percent of the global yield of star annis
in order to produce tamiflum. However, that boom lasted less
(16:53):
than a decade before Roche developed this this genetically modified
bacterial culture that could produce um shaki MC acid at
like scale um cheaply in labs without needing to buy
and process this barky, weird star shaped thing, which I
(17:13):
guess was great for Roche but um but really caused
some turmoil and especially some of the small farming communities
in Vietnam that we're producing it. Mmmm. It is fascinating
though that it was used yeah for that Yeah. And
then because I did struggle to find a lot of
(17:34):
information on this one, or at least I didn't find
as much as I wanted to. One thing that kept
popping up was like, you've seen it in your holiday punches, huh,
which is true, you see it as kind of I
have seen it as kind of decor in holiday punches.
So I looked into that, um and from what I
can tell, recipes for these punch bowls that had star
(17:58):
innis as kind of a decor item plus a flavoring item,
but kind of more for decor started popping up in
Google in the mid twenty tens, like twenty fifteen. Okay,
not to say they weren't being made before then, but
that's when most of the recipes I found were then.
(18:19):
Word on. I feel like that was sort of the
the resurgence of the punch bowl. Yeah, you know, kind
of going back to the to the vintage mid century
sort of punch bowl. But yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean
that was a part of a lot of articles I
found too that was like, hey, Americans, if you don't
(18:40):
know what this is, you can use it for more.
It's for all these other things, not just a decoration.
It tastes good, you could use it for that. I
don't know. Yeah. So uh, Like I said, I had
trouble kind of finding as. I didn't find us my
as I wanted to for this one. So listeners, if
(19:02):
you have any information, would love to hear from you. Yeah,
as always, But I think that's what we have to
say about this for now. Yes, I think it is.
We do have some listener mail for you, though, and
we are going to get into that as soon as
we get back from a quick break forward from our
sponsors and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you,
(19:33):
and we're back with the Shooting Star. Oh I love
a shooting Star. Jan wrote, thanks so much for the
Coleslaw episode. My family, being Hungarian, basically inhaled the stuff.
(19:55):
Having a German grandparents from the Midwest on my father's side,
we also lima beans often well. My mother, bless her
heart in the Southern way, she's not a great cook
of mixing the two together. We'd humor her if the
result was okay, and this one was so here goes.
(20:17):
Any vinegar based coal saw recipe can be escalated to
heaven by simmering frozen lima beans in the dressing prior
to pouring the dressing over the coal slaw and refrigerating.
So make the coal slaw as per normal, except add
frozen lima beans to the vinegar based dressing while simmering.
Then pour the entire thing with beans over the coal saw, toss, refrigerate,
(20:41):
and joy twenty four hours later. One stipulation, the coal
saw must have purple onions for this to work, and
not just with lima beans, but with any vinegar based recipe.
I'm not polite like Lauren Is. I'll tell you how
to do it the right way. This is my favorite
savorite episode hack so far. What other favorite episodes have
(21:05):
you thought of hacking together? Oh? Oh, that's a good question, right,
I'll have to think about it, I do. First of all,
I want to try this. Um. It sounds very very
good to me. I feel like a lot of the
hacks that I've come up with have been listener suggestions,
(21:29):
like I haven't come up with them honestly, Like the
um I've been making that fancy ravioli where I kind
of add basil basil to it, and that's kind of
a hack that I love. But mostly it's been kind
of pandemic based and whatever suggestions you all send in
(21:49):
whatever is like in my whatever I have in my
bantry and my refrigerator, I will try it. I'm like
a mad scientist nowadays, like yeah, right, Like, well I've
gotten this, let's see if it works. Yeah, yeah, sure. Um,
I can't think of anything from prior episodes. I would
have to look like we say all the time, I
(22:11):
have no idea what episodes we've done. Um, but uh,
I guess I guess my favorite like slightly like hum
pairing um is for like a really simple lunch. I
love just heating up some some plain rice and then
topping it with like half an avocado, um, and topping
that with furry kake. Oh yeah yeah, so good, so good. Um.
(22:36):
And we have done and we did an episode in fodykake.
I think, yeah, yeah, not on avocado yet, because avocado
is comp whole thing. It's gonna be a whole hecken thing,
like the Mafia ties alone alone. M I guess mom,
I should say not Maffia specifically, but anyway, m hmm. Yeah.
But I do love I do love those things where
(22:56):
it's kind of like, you know, what, what do I have?
Let's put it together, Let's see what happens. Yeah. I've
done that a lot with Raman. Oh sure, yeah. There
plenty of things where you're just like, well, let's see it.
I don't know yeay, Eric or Eric, they still have
(23:19):
not given us a pronunciation. Wrote still working on catching up,
but I'm up to June of last year, so hopefully soon. Anyway,
threw some notes down that may have already been covered
in What I Haven't heard yet, but dropping them in
any way soda tastings hit Grandpa Joe's here in Pittsburgh,
and they have opened a bunch more A strip district
(23:39):
was the original two hundred and fifty plus different sodas
in addition to all kinds of candy. Someone mentioned a
shop out in California, but it looks like Grandpa Joe's
has opened a store in Florida as well. This is
a store where I always have to go in with
a preset limit or I will just go overboard earners.
(24:01):
I loved it until they had to make a change
back in nineteen ninety one. It was originally sweetened with
Stevia until the FDA bandit heck and sugar companies. Big
Sugar always feels threatened until they can find a way
into the game. All things Coffee. Would love a general
revisit on coffee, especially if you can set up to
talk to James Hoffman. He's an absolute wealth of knowledge
(24:24):
and also tends to just get geeky and nerd out
on coffee stuff, so it would fit right in. What
I love about James is that his goal is to
just try and get you the best cup of coffee.
He knows everyone has different tastes, and he's just trying
to lead you in a direction that can help make
it better. Cast iron. I love my cast iron stuff.
It is always interesting to see what people recommend on
(24:46):
taking care of it. I think it really comes down
to reading everything out there and making a decision that
fits your needs. They are durable and I would put
it at a mix of low and high maintenance. I
think the real key is being consistent in using and
may taining. Don't ever let it soak and water always dry, etc.
Lima beans, Yes, I finally broke down and got some
(25:09):
cool Lima bean connection. Okay, continuing, they had frozen baby
Lima beans at the store. Was making a shrimp boil
and figured that would be a good way to test
based on your recommendation. I threw them in so that
they would be about a minute or so less than
the time recommended. Combined with everything else, they were enjoyable,
not bitter. Nice bite to them. Thank you on that induction,
(25:31):
considering I'm still behind. You may have covered this already,
but the one listener mail mentioned that the cast iron
was heating much faster than on the old gas. That
is expected from what I read, due to efficiency. One
article I read showed gas cooktops are about forty percent efficient,
electric coil and standard smooth top electric cooktops are about
seventy four percent efficient, and induction cooktops are ninety percent efficient.
(25:55):
When we have to replace our current electric, I do
want to go induction. All of our pots and pans
will work, so I don't have to worry about that.
If I ever get back down to Atlanta, I'd love
to buy you and your crew a coffee or a
beer yeast booh. The same applies if you get to Pittsburgh.
We can hit a shop in the Strip district for both.
Keep up the Enjoyable podcast. I love the puns and
(26:16):
the general zaniness. The D and D stuff is fun.
I haven't played in almost thirty five years. Yes, with
thirty four thirty five. I was an eighties first edition
player back in the day. So that and my gray
hair reveal a little bit. Oh that's cool though, Oh
that is so cool. Yeah yeah. Also thanks for zaniness.
(26:39):
That makes me feel like an animaniac. I like, ooh,
we are a little bit zany. I would say, we
are sure for sure. Yes, I'm glad you enjoyed your
Lima bean dish. I was like embarrassingly worried about it.
I wanted it to work out for you. Yeah, we
(27:01):
just want people to love things. Yeah. Absolutely, gosh, two
hundred and fifty different kinds of sodas. Yeah, that's overwhelming.
I'm into it, but overwhelmed by Yeah. Yeah, I would
need to take that in. Like, I think it would
be one of the places where it would be like, Okay,
I can look at this shelf today and I'll have
to come back for the rest of the store. Yeah yeah, yeah,
(27:23):
that makes sense. I can see that where we just
spend a whole day on one shelf talking. I think
we could work it out. But it would be a
multi day it would it would oh man, I would
be on such a sugar high. It would be terrifying. Yes, yes,
but speaking of you do know we love we love
coffee around here, so oh yeah, coffee revisit certainly within
(27:47):
the realm of possibility. Oh yeah, yeah. Well, and there's
so much more to talk about, right, I mean, like,
you know, like we talked about a lot, but just
all of the all of the different preparations and and
flavors that you can get out of it our so fascinating. Yes, yes,
it's yes. I also love when people have these specific
like I liked it until they changed it at this day, right,
(28:10):
I love that. That's so good. And thanks for the
induction cast iron Notes, that's always been fun, and for
the invite. If we ever get to Pittsburgh, we we
gotta we gotta plan a whole like road trip. Yeah
at this point, multi country tour. Oh, I'm into it.
It's gonna be all lot, but I'm into it. Yes, yes, Well,
(28:35):
thank you so much to both of these listeners for
writing in. If you would like to write to us,
you can our emails Hello at saberpod dot com. Oh,
we are also on social media. You can find us
on Twitter, Facebook, or Instagram at saber pod and we
do hope to hear from you. Saber is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you
can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
(28:57):
listen to your favorite shows. Thanks always to our superproducers
Dylan Pagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way
Hello, and welcome to Savor Prodiction of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie
Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an
episode for you about star Annis. Yes, and we believe
that's the pronunciation. Yeah, star Anise. Maybe I don't know,
but since Annis other Annis is pronounced Annis, then we're
(00:29):
just gonna go with that. Yeah, I think that makes sense, sure,
but correct as if we're incorrect. Yeah. Yeah, Oh, this
one was. It was a bit difficult in terms of
the research, but it was a fun one. Did you
have any particular reason what was on your mind? Um?
(00:51):
I think that I've been wanting to do five spice
for a long time and that was on my mind.
And then I was like, no, not today, too much,
too much, too much, um. And then I arrived at
one of the frequent ingredients, star Annis, Yes, which I
have not used in my personal Oh really no, I
(01:14):
mean I've used like five spice and I've used Gara Massala,
but I haven't used star Annis. Oh yeah, I mean
I've got like a your decab Farmer's market tub of
it in my kitchen. Like I've definitely used it in
mulled wine kind of application. And I think i've ground
it for for spice ones. Yeah yeah, so nice, so nice?
(01:35):
All right, Well another thing for the meal, huge, huge
banquet we're gonna have. Uh well, yes, you can see
our Annis episodes also fun if it's a big ingredient
in that um sechuan, pepper, cinnamon, cloves, masala, chi, fennel, liquorice,
(01:58):
it like pops up in a lot of other stories, sure, um,
a lot of other delicious, delicious stories. It doesn't. And
it's beautiful like it looks like something you'd see in
a video game, like you'd collect right. Oh gosh, it does.
Oh I didn't use that in my description, but that's
a good one. Yes, I suppose that brings us to
(02:22):
our question. Does star Annis what is it? Well? Uh?
Star Annis is a type of small star shaped seed
pod that is dried and used as a spice hole
or ground. It has a really lovely like like warm
and spicy flavor that involves sort of like a like
(02:45):
a bouquet of liquorice and clove and mint and woods
with it, with a little bit of sweetness too. It's
used a whole to flavor soups and stews and drinks.
Though you wouldn't want to eat a whole. It's sort
of bark like in texture, or it can be ground
and used in all kinds of sweet and savory dishes
and drinks. It's um. It's like a more round and
(03:08):
soft flavored version of annis um, because Annis can be
a little bit bitter and almost pikeant sort of um.
It's it's like it's like if a It's like if
a star and in a stained glass window, or like
a marble carving just popped out and was just so
bright and warm and nice tasting. Um. It's like it's
(03:30):
like a whole season's worth of warm nights condensed into
a little star. You should have a book of poetry, Lauren,
and it's just describing foods in this manner because it's beautiful.
Publishers get in touch. Yes, better, heck savor cookbook. We've
(03:56):
been ball and keeps saying we should do it. Maybe
we should. I don't know, yeah, I keeps saying I'm
not a cook. I know, what do you have? Ravioli
and hot sauce? There you go, which could be good? Sure,
I give it like a nerd name. Yeah, oh sure,
(04:16):
right right, totally, Yeah, all my recipes would just be
stews that I've substituted in carrots and celery and to
teos for onions and garlic and bell peppers. So there
might be a market for that. Actually, you might mean
maybe maybe we're onto something anyway. Anyway, star annis Is
(04:38):
is right unrelated to annis um. It got its name
because it has a sort of similar flavor profile and
the seed pod is a star shape um. A star
annis is actually the whole fruit of an evergreen tropical
to subtropical shrub or tree. It's related to like magnolia
and bay um. If you're familiar with magnolia, the plant
(05:00):
does look a lot like a slightly smaller version of that,
with these broad, glossy green leaves. It'll bear sort of
spindly looking little starburst shaped flowers and white to yellow
to pink to crimson, which, if pollinated, we'll develop this
kind of bulbous sort of video gamy star shaped fruit
that may be green to reddish in color. The fruit
(05:24):
is harvested and dried, resulting in a sort of shriveled
brown to reddish pod up to about an inch or
three centimeters across, with six to eight arms, each of
which will sort of pinch on the bottom and then
open on the top to reveal a single, smooth, oblong seed.
(05:44):
If you allowed the fruit to fully ripen and begin
to dry on the tree, the seeds would actually or
that the pods would actually burst open and propel the
seed outward. Love this well, sounds kind of mining to me.
Very cool. Cool. I am menacing, I I it's a
(06:06):
little bit alieny, but I don't think it's quite as
menacing as that. Okay, I think there's a spectrum of menacing,
and this is towards the mildly yeah yeah, okay, yeah um.
Although speaking of menace, uh. I will note here that
the edible species of star Annis is a botanical name
(06:27):
Elysium varum, sometimes called Shinese star annis. There are other
species in the genus that are toxic when eaten, including
the botanical name Elysium anisatum. Yeah, anisatum that sounds right, um,
sometimes called Japanese star anise um. That one has been
used in incense. But yeah, don't, don't. Don't eat ones
that are not Elysium varum. No, don't do it. Don't
(06:50):
do it. One of the few times I'll tell you
not to do something is when it's actually toxic. Um.
The whole dried pod of the edible kind of star
anna can be simmered in whatever you're simmering, or yes
ground and incorporated into recipes that way. It's oil content
can also be extracted and sold for use that that's
mostly like a commercial product and not used directly by
(07:12):
consumers that often. I think that in general, European cuisines
mostly use star annis in sweeter applications like to flavor
baked goods and alcoholic beverages like galiano and some gins,
maybe in mulled wine or like a flavored coffee kind
of situation. Asian cuisines tend to lean more towards savory.
(07:36):
Perhaps it is one of the ingredients in five spice.
It shows up in soups like fuh all kinds of
other poaching and braising liquids, and in various South Asian
spice blends aka masalas. But right, it's also in chai
masala and candies and baked goods, and it is furthermore
a super popular like flavor or scent in personal care
(08:00):
products like toothpaste and motion m I feel like I
need to find some of this for you, Annie, because
you shouldn't really have meant and the sounds delightful. I agree,
No no fighting from me. I am totally into it.
I did love reading from people who loved the scent
(08:21):
of it. They would specifically talk about kind of the scent. Yeah,
there are big fans of starness, I'll say, oh absolutely
absolutely m Although additionally, one of the chemical compounds that
it contains is um sachemic acid, which is a chemical
(08:43):
precursor to one of the active ingredients in tamiflu, which
is that medication that's meant to like lessen the symptoms
and length of influenza infections. Extracts of star annis have
been used for that. So yeah, yeah, yeah, it's been
used for all kinds of things. Oh yeah absolutely. Mm. Well,
(09:04):
speaking up, what about the nutrition? You are generally not
consuming enough to make any kind of nutritive difference. Um,
but yeah, other compounds and star annis are being investigated
for various medical potentials. You know, like like cook with
it if you enjoy it, but like savor motto, like
(09:24):
like bodies are complicated. More researchers necessary before consuming a
medicinal amount of anything. Consult with a medical professional who
is not usum, but yeah, it's really cool. Oh man,
Like I like, I saw all kinds of research that
I was like, Lauren, no um. But I saw things
(09:45):
for everything like like using it as a as a
pest control, not necessarily like to kill the pests, but
to ward them off kind of, um, all the way
up to interrupting bacterial bacterial colony that are participating in
like bacterial quorum sensing or biofilm creation, so not necessarily
(10:07):
like killing the bacteria, but just preventing them from working
together effectively. So I'm like, what, that's so great? That
is cool. Ah, that's cool anyway. Yeah, I mean there's
a lot going on with Starinus. Well, we have some
numbers for you, kind of We have like one and
a half numbers. Yeah. Well the first one is China
(10:31):
is the largest producer. Uh huh. Vietnam comes in a
pretty distant second, but still together they produce about ninety
percent of the world's supply, which is about twenty five
tons a year just there. So a little bit over that.
I didn't do the math and I'm too lazy to
think through it right now, but a little bit more
(10:51):
than that. It's the global production. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and
that makes sense given the history it does. It does, yes,
which we will get into after a quick break for
a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes,
(11:16):
thank you. Um so okay. Star Annis is fairly old.
It is a type of basal angiosperm, meaning that it
is a plant that diverged from other flowering plants like
pretty early on. So so it's also botanically interesting because
it has characteristics of a lot of very different plants
(11:39):
that developed afterward. And researchers think that pungent oils in
plants like these developed some one hundred and fifty million
years ago or so, which is a number that makes
total sense to me. I know how to comprehend that
for meadows, like really nope, zero, that was sarcasm. Sometimes
sarcasm guy, because my sarcasm voice sounds very much like
(12:04):
my regular voice. Well, it's a skilled. Mark it off
as a skill. Skipping away ahead. Staranis grows natively and
Southeast Asia, China and Vietnam specifically, where it has been
used culinarily and medicinally for over three thousand years, and
(12:28):
people used it as a curative for all kinds of things,
particularly like cold and the symptoms associated with cold and
just general pain. Yeah. Yeah. In traditional Chinese medicine, it's
considered a warming agent. So yeah, right, And the tree
was prized in some cultures. I read that it was
(12:48):
often planted near tombs and temples in Japan, for instance,
where it was also used medicinally. That's kind of a
common thread throughout this. I also read in some places
that in Chinese culture or finding an eight points pause
of Starnas was huge as lucky. Okay, I would love
(13:08):
if someone could write in to confirm that. In some places,
I even read that it was so highly valued it
was used to pay off war reparations in China in
nine hundred and seventy CE, So it was, it was prized, Yeah,
it was loved. Yes. It spread along trade routes to
the rest of Asia, to the Middle East, where it
(13:30):
eventually wound up in all kinds of dishes and spice
mixes like curry soups, teas, rice dishes, drinks, all kinds
of things, sometimes even as a substitute for annis, especially
in commercial drinks. That kind of happened a little bit later.
But yeah, okay, separate episode. But Garamasala is believed to
(13:52):
have originated in northern India in the thirteenth century. Meanwhile,
Chinese five Oh my gosh, I read it could go
as far back as the fourth century BC in southern China,
which is another separate episode. But like wreath perusal that
(14:13):
I did, fascinating. Oh yeah, oh yeah, um, just just
little little tidbit from that. It's not called five spice
because it contains literally five spices. It's called that because
it is balancing five elements of flavor. Right, So yeah,
so it goes I think stuff to blow your mind.
(14:35):
Did an episode on it back in the day. Fascinating history, okay,
but but anyway to continue, Yes, yes, when star ennis
was introduced to Europe in the sixteenth or seventeenth century,
I saw a couple of dates. Um, it was added
to a wide variety of items, especially baked goods, jams
(14:57):
liqueurs Europeans did. I'd use it medicinally as well, for
things like colic and babies. That was one of the
big ones. Stomach inflammation as a sedative, as an analgesic.
The list goes on and on and on, and then
it traveled along Tea roots through Russia to get to Russia,
where it was allegedly added to tea on the Star's court. Okay,
(15:21):
all right, it sounds like it's a great ingredient. T
so h. There is a popular story that I could
not verify, but popularly told that Englishman Sir Thomas Cavendish
of Banana Fame Banana Fame, introduced this spice from the
Philippines to Europe in fifteen eighty eight ish the date varies,
(15:45):
and because of this, that's where many Europeans believed that
star Annis came. They thought it came from the Philippines. Yeah,
I read that a lot too, but I didn't look
into it, to be honest. So if you if you
say that you couldn't find evidence, then yeah, I couldn't
find it more than like fun fact right things. But anyway,
(16:07):
beginning in the eighteen hundreds, French colonizers in Vietnam aware
growing starranis was essential to the livelihood of so many
And yes, this is one of the reasons why I
ended up in fuh They started exporting starinis oil while
China exported their own oil out of Hong Kong. So
(16:29):
this was kind of a big big thing at the time.
Jumping ahead to the early two thousands, the demand for
star Annis exploded when pharmaceutical giant Roche started buying up
like ninety percent of the global yield of star annis
in order to produce tamiflum. However, that boom lasted less
(16:53):
than a decade before Roche developed this this genetically modified
bacterial culture that could produce um shaki MC acid at
like scale um cheaply in labs without needing to buy
and process this barky, weird star shaped thing, which I
(17:13):
guess was great for Roche but um but really caused
some turmoil and especially some of the small farming communities
in Vietnam that we're producing it. Mmmm. It is fascinating
though that it was used yeah for that Yeah. And
then because I did struggle to find a lot of
(17:34):
information on this one, or at least I didn't find
as much as I wanted to. One thing that kept
popping up was like, you've seen it in your holiday punches, huh,
which is true, you see it as kind of I
have seen it as kind of decor in holiday punches.
So I looked into that, um and from what I
can tell, recipes for these punch bowls that had star
(17:58):
innis as kind of a decor item plus a flavoring item,
but kind of more for decor started popping up in
Google in the mid twenty tens, like twenty fifteen. Okay,
not to say they weren't being made before then, but
that's when most of the recipes I found were then.
(18:19):
Word on. I feel like that was sort of the
the resurgence of the punch bowl. Yeah, you know, kind
of going back to the to the vintage mid century
sort of punch bowl. But yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean
that was a part of a lot of articles I
found too that was like, hey, Americans, if you don't
(18:40):
know what this is, you can use it for more.
It's for all these other things, not just a decoration.
It tastes good, you could use it for that. I
don't know. Yeah. So uh, Like I said, I had
trouble kind of finding as. I didn't find us my
as I wanted to for this one. So listeners, if
(19:02):
you have any information, would love to hear from you. Yeah,
as always, But I think that's what we have to
say about this for now. Yes, I think it is.
We do have some listener mail for you, though, and
we are going to get into that as soon as
we get back from a quick break forward from our
sponsors and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you,
(19:33):
and we're back with the Shooting Star. Oh I love
a shooting Star. Jan wrote, thanks so much for the
Coleslaw episode. My family, being Hungarian, basically inhaled the stuff.
(19:55):
Having a German grandparents from the Midwest on my father's side,
we also lima beans often well. My mother, bless her
heart in the Southern way, she's not a great cook
of mixing the two together. We'd humor her if the
result was okay, and this one was so here goes.
(20:17):
Any vinegar based coal saw recipe can be escalated to
heaven by simmering frozen lima beans in the dressing prior
to pouring the dressing over the coal slaw and refrigerating.
So make the coal slaw as per normal, except add
frozen lima beans to the vinegar based dressing while simmering.
Then pour the entire thing with beans over the coal saw, toss, refrigerate,
(20:41):
and joy twenty four hours later. One stipulation, the coal
saw must have purple onions for this to work, and
not just with lima beans, but with any vinegar based recipe.
I'm not polite like Lauren Is. I'll tell you how
to do it the right way. This is my favorite
savorite episode hack so far. What other favorite episodes have
(21:05):
you thought of hacking together? Oh? Oh, that's a good question, right,
I'll have to think about it, I do. First of all,
I want to try this. Um. It sounds very very
good to me. I feel like a lot of the
hacks that I've come up with have been listener suggestions,
(21:29):
like I haven't come up with them honestly, Like the
um I've been making that fancy ravioli where I kind
of add basil basil to it, and that's kind of
a hack that I love. But mostly it's been kind
of pandemic based and whatever suggestions you all send in
(21:49):
whatever is like in my whatever I have in my
bantry and my refrigerator, I will try it. I'm like
a mad scientist nowadays, like yeah, right, Like, well I've
gotten this, let's see if it works. Yeah, yeah, sure. Um,
I can't think of anything from prior episodes. I would
have to look like we say all the time, I
(22:11):
have no idea what episodes we've done. Um, but uh,
I guess I guess my favorite like slightly like hum
pairing um is for like a really simple lunch. I
love just heating up some some plain rice and then
topping it with like half an avocado, um, and topping
that with furry kake. Oh yeah yeah, so good, so good. Um.
(22:36):
And we have done and we did an episode in fodykake.
I think, yeah, yeah, not on avocado yet, because avocado
is comp whole thing. It's gonna be a whole hecken thing,
like the Mafia ties alone alone. M I guess mom,
I should say not Maffia specifically, but anyway, m hmm. Yeah.
But I do love I do love those things where
(22:56):
it's kind of like, you know, what, what do I have?
Let's put it together, Let's see what happens. Yeah. I've
done that a lot with Raman. Oh sure, yeah. There
plenty of things where you're just like, well, let's see it.
I don't know yeay, Eric or Eric, they still have
(23:19):
not given us a pronunciation. Wrote still working on catching up,
but I'm up to June of last year, so hopefully soon. Anyway,
threw some notes down that may have already been covered
in What I Haven't heard yet, but dropping them in
any way soda tastings hit Grandpa Joe's here in Pittsburgh,
and they have opened a bunch more A strip district
(23:39):
was the original two hundred and fifty plus different sodas
in addition to all kinds of candy. Someone mentioned a
shop out in California, but it looks like Grandpa Joe's
has opened a store in Florida as well. This is
a store where I always have to go in with
a preset limit or I will just go overboard earners.
(24:01):
I loved it until they had to make a change
back in nineteen ninety one. It was originally sweetened with
Stevia until the FDA bandit heck and sugar companies. Big
Sugar always feels threatened until they can find a way
into the game. All things Coffee. Would love a general
revisit on coffee, especially if you can set up to
talk to James Hoffman. He's an absolute wealth of knowledge
(24:24):
and also tends to just get geeky and nerd out
on coffee stuff, so it would fit right in. What
I love about James is that his goal is to
just try and get you the best cup of coffee.
He knows everyone has different tastes, and he's just trying
to lead you in a direction that can help make
it better. Cast iron. I love my cast iron stuff.
It is always interesting to see what people recommend on
(24:46):
taking care of it. I think it really comes down
to reading everything out there and making a decision that
fits your needs. They are durable and I would put
it at a mix of low and high maintenance. I
think the real key is being consistent in using and
may taining. Don't ever let it soak and water always dry, etc.
Lima beans, Yes, I finally broke down and got some
(25:09):
cool Lima bean connection. Okay, continuing, they had frozen baby
Lima beans at the store. Was making a shrimp boil
and figured that would be a good way to test
based on your recommendation. I threw them in so that
they would be about a minute or so less than
the time recommended. Combined with everything else, they were enjoyable,
not bitter. Nice bite to them. Thank you on that induction,
(25:31):
considering I'm still behind. You may have covered this already,
but the one listener mail mentioned that the cast iron
was heating much faster than on the old gas. That
is expected from what I read, due to efficiency. One
article I read showed gas cooktops are about forty percent efficient,
electric coil and standard smooth top electric cooktops are about
seventy four percent efficient, and induction cooktops are ninety percent efficient.
(25:55):
When we have to replace our current electric, I do
want to go induction. All of our pots and pans
will work, so I don't have to worry about that.
If I ever get back down to Atlanta, I'd love
to buy you and your crew a coffee or a
beer yeast booh. The same applies if you get to Pittsburgh.
We can hit a shop in the Strip district for both.
Keep up the Enjoyable podcast. I love the puns and
(26:16):
the general zaniness. The D and D stuff is fun.
I haven't played in almost thirty five years. Yes, with
thirty four thirty five. I was an eighties first edition
player back in the day. So that and my gray
hair reveal a little bit. Oh that's cool though, Oh
that is so cool. Yeah yeah. Also thanks for zaniness.
(26:39):
That makes me feel like an animaniac. I like, ooh,
we are a little bit zany. I would say, we
are sure for sure. Yes, I'm glad you enjoyed your
Lima bean dish. I was like embarrassingly worried about it.
I wanted it to work out for you. Yeah, we
(27:01):
just want people to love things. Yeah. Absolutely, gosh, two
hundred and fifty different kinds of sodas. Yeah, that's overwhelming.
I'm into it, but overwhelmed by Yeah. Yeah, I would
need to take that in. Like, I think it would
be one of the places where it would be like, Okay,
I can look at this shelf today and I'll have
to come back for the rest of the store. Yeah yeah, yeah,
(27:23):
that makes sense. I can see that where we just
spend a whole day on one shelf talking. I think
we could work it out. But it would be a
multi day it would it would oh man, I would
be on such a sugar high. It would be terrifying. Yes, yes,
but speaking of you do know we love we love
coffee around here, so oh yeah, coffee revisit certainly within
(27:47):
the realm of possibility. Oh yeah, yeah. Well, and there's
so much more to talk about, right, I mean, like,
you know, like we talked about a lot, but just
all of the all of the different preparations and and
flavors that you can get out of it our so fascinating. Yes, yes,
it's yes. I also love when people have these specific
like I liked it until they changed it at this day, right,
(28:10):
I love that. That's so good. And thanks for the
induction cast iron Notes, that's always been fun, and for
the invite. If we ever get to Pittsburgh, we we
gotta we gotta plan a whole like road trip. Yeah
at this point, multi country tour. Oh, I'm into it.
It's gonna be all lot, but I'm into it. Yes, yes, Well,
(28:35):
thank you so much to both of these listeners for
writing in. If you would like to write to us,
you can our emails Hello at saberpod dot com. Oh,
we are also on social media. You can find us
on Twitter, Facebook, or Instagram at saber pod and we
do hope to hear from you. Saber is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you
can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
(28:57):
listen to your favorite shows. Thanks always to our superproducers
Dylan Pagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way
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