October 23, 2024 • 41 mins
This useful culinary nut has a surprising structure and a plethora of names. Anney and Lauren shell out the science and history behind English walnuts.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savior Prediction of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Annie Reas and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we
have an episode for you about walnuts, specifically English walnuts
or Persian walnuts or golden walnuts. It's this particular kind
of walnut. It has a lot of names, it does,
and we will talk about this.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Oh yeah, because yeah, there's a lot of different walnuts
out there, and we can't do it all right now,
that is so true.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yes, I realized very quickly, in kind of like poking
into this topic that yeah, this has to be an
episode about only one type of walnut. So if you
are here hoping for information about black walnuts, I am
so sorry to disappoint you, but that is going to
have to be a future episode.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Indeed. Indeed, I think when I was doing my usual
what are my thoughts about whatever topic, the school the
university my dad taught at, had walnut trees. Oh, and
it was just kind of a thing on campus that
they had these walnuts, and I thought it was the
coolest thing as a kid. But they must have been
(01:16):
black walnut trees, I think, I don't know. But anyway,
was there any particular reason these.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Were on your mind, Lauria, we hadn't done a nut
episode in a while. And I do associate these in
particular with like family and like fall into winter kind
of stuff. An old person. Thing I do that I
think I've mentioned on the show before is around the
winter holidays, I'll put out a bowl of in shell
(01:45):
nuts in my living room so that guests can confound
themselves by attempting to crack open nuts.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yes, I love it. I love it. I also associate
them with the holidays. I believe I've told this story before,
but my mom stopped giving me candy in my stocking
for Christmas because I don't eat candy. Yeah yeah, but
she was so she's been trying to find like a substitute, yeah,
(02:16):
whatever it is. And she has given me a lot
of nuts over the I have so many, and I
believe a lot of you listeners know. But the reason
I have been absent recently, if you're listening to this
as it comes out, was I did Jerry duty and
(02:37):
I was very concerned about my stomach growling. Oh sure, yeah.
And I don't normally eat snacks, as I've talked about
on here before. The lunch situation wasn't great. So I
did eat packs of walnuts that my mom did me
(03:00):
and it did it was good. It was it got
me through no stomach rumbling. That's so good.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, I little little packets of nuts are yeah, one
of those snacks that I usually have, if not directly
on my person, Like I've just forgotten them that day
because right, yeah, Like it's with being vaguely hypoglycemic. I'm
just like, wow, like if I run out of blood sugar,
everyone is going to have to deal with me, and
I don't want them to have to do that, so
(03:28):
I should probably pack a snack. It's like having a
five year old. But it's just me.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I love it. I love it. And nuts have betrayed
us before I have to say where, right we start
researching it's not a nut, but we have done several
related episodes.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah, within the category of culinary nuts. Yes, you can
see our episodes on hazel nuts, pistachios, cashew's chestnuts, macadamia's, pecans, pecans,
whatever way you want to say it. I have been
avoiding almends. I've been avoiding almends.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
It's big. It's big. That's a tough one. Yeah, uh.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
You can also see our Ashville episode about Amari in
which we do talk about Nocino and speaking of Ashville,
if any of our listeners are out there, I really
hope you're doing okay, you and your family and all
of your We we do. We do, not just me,
not like Annie is like Nscar. You guys, we hope
(04:31):
that you're doing as well as possible and that you
are receiving support. I have been like slowly checking in
with folks from Asheville who we spoke with on the
show when we went there. Everyone that I've seen posts
so far, Everyone who I've been able to get a
hold of has been, you know, working through it and
doing okay. The people with Eda Ryan specifically, who we're
(04:55):
talking with us about Nocino the Distillery came through just okay.
They do have a go fund me up for their staff.
So if if you have been touched by their interviews
or by their their horror story, their ghost story that
they sent us, or anything like that, feel free to
feel free to go look up at A rhine E
(05:16):
d A r h y n E and I'm sure
that'll pop up.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yes, yes, and we do hope all of you are doing. Okay,
I'm right in and let us know. But yes, I
guess this brings us to our question. Sure, English walnuts,
what are they? Well?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So called English walnuts, go buy many other names, but
they are a type of culinary nut that grows in
this thin, stiff, lightweight, sort of gnarled, pale brown shell.
They do take some force to crack open, but the
kernel inside will be like a little wrinkly nut brain,
with this thin golden skin that gives you a pop
(06:02):
of bitter flavor and white flesh crunchy and sweet and
a little creamy or melting as you chew it from
all the fats that it contains. They can be eaten
by themselves or used in any number of sweet or
savory dishes. Raw or dried or roasted. Roasting them will
bring out there like warm sweet nuttiness. Yeah yeah, but yeah.
(06:24):
Chopped into a salad, or into baked goods or ice creams,
or with cereal grains of whatever kind, you can serve
them as a snack, salted or sugared or spiced, maybe
alongside cheeses or fruits. They can be coated with or
chopped into chocolate. They can be ground into a flour
and used in baked goods, or a paste and used
in sauces and spreads, crushed and used as a like
(06:46):
crunchy coating on proteins or baked goods. They can be
ground for their oil, which will often be used in
like low heat or cold dishes to preserve the sort
of delicate, slightly sweet flavor of them. Ripe ones are
used to make better sweet liqueurs. They are nutritionally dense
and kind of kind of endlessly useful. They're like little
(07:09):
pre wrapped protein bars. They're like being outside on a
sunny day in the fall when you're when you're bundled
up warm, but then you get hit with like a
with like a sharp woodsy wind. Uh you know that
like smell of of of of of.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Of leaves falling.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
It's a it's a feeling that's warm and round and
also sort of bitter.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
M It's a lovely feeling.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
It is it is.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
They're they're just they're nice. They're nice.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Okay, so bo tannable name jew Glands Regia. These walnuts
are the seed of the fruit of the walnut tree. No,
they are not a true nut. They are a pseudo
droop similar to a peach or like a cherry. You know,
instead of eating the flesh of the fruit and discarding
(08:02):
the pit, we discard the flesh and crack open the
pit to get the seed inside. While nut trees are
large deciduous trees that grow to around forty to sixty
feet that's like twelve to eighteen meters, with a thick
gray bark and broad, flat, oval shaped green leaves. They
grow in temperate, like relatively dryish climates. It'll take some
(08:24):
five years before a new tree will start to fruit,
and about twenty before it grows like a really worthwhile crop.
In the spring, the trees bloom with both male and
female flowers, the male ones and these tiny drooping clusters
that look like little miniature grapes kind of, and the
female ones and these small clusters of buds. If pollinated,
the buds will develop into a green fruit that looks
(08:46):
a little bit like a small smooth lime, or maybe
like an unripe plum, but is constructed very differently, certainly
from a lime.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
The outer layer is this tough husk that's whitish green,
and in cases what will develop into that hard, pale
brown shell. Inside of that you get to the actual seed,
this double lobed little proto plant, you know, wrapped up
with nutritious stuff for that plant to eat should it
(09:17):
germinate and start growing. But suckers, we learned that we
like eating that stuff too, so they don't usually get
to it. The thin seed coat on walnuts looks veined
because those were veins that fed nutrients to the developing seed,
and that seed coat is better with these phenolic compounds
that can stain white dough sort of purpleish. So if
(09:39):
you've ever been working with them in a baked good
and gone like, why is my dough turning purple? It's
a seed coat. Here you go. As the nut inside matures,
that green outer husk will split open, revealing the developed shell.
And the husk itself is super interesting because it, along
(10:00):
with like the body and the roots of the tree,
contains a bunch more of these potent phenolic compounds. One
of them is named after the walnut genus jew glow,
and it will stain everything it touches rusty brown, and
it gets into the ground around walnut trees and will
basically scald a lot of other plants that it interacts with,
(10:22):
like especially delicate things like tomatoes. The other phenolic compound
or other main one in there is gallic acid, which
is this astringent found in other things like black tea
and grape skins and is also staining. So Annie, if
you've ever had a problem eating walnuts, this is why
here you go.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
My brain is turning over some things. Yes, oh sorry,
all good. The shell is also really cool. It's technically,
like botanically part of the fruit, not the seed, because
it develops from the flowers ovary, but that's sort of
that's sort of neither here nor there. Anyway, While the
(11:03):
fruit is growing, the shell starts out as like active,
living soft tissue, and then as the fruit matures, it
goes into this sort of like like castle defense mode,
and each cell of what will be the shell starts
thickening its walls from the inside of the cell, like
pushing its old layers outward, and those old layers will
(11:27):
start locking together with the other outer layers of neighboring
cells in like a really tight jigsaw. And so in
doing this, each cell will eventually fortify itself so intensely
that it cannot receive supplies and will die, becoming stiff
like a like a like a rigid styrofoam grain or
(11:47):
something like that.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah right, it's like kind of metal. I'm like, all right, heck, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
I see why you. I got a message from larn
right before we were about to record that was like
I have to I'm still reading about the shell. It's
like okay, okay, yeah, I understand. Yeah, yeah, it's really cool.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
There's actually more on this later in the history section,
but anyway, okay. Walnuts are often harvested and kind of
two stages. First, you'll use a tractor with this attachment
that basically just like vigorously shakes each tree and it
knocks the nuts in their shells loose from those opened husks,
so they fall to the ground. And then you come
(12:30):
back through with a vehicle that has a kind of
like conveyor belt vacuum thing on the front end that
just pulls the nuts up into a bet on the back. Yeah.
They could be sold fresh, but are more commonly dried,
either in shell or after dshelling. And there are just
a lot of cultivars. They are not originally from England,
(12:52):
and they have a lot of names. As we've said,
I went with English walnut as kind of a catch
all because that's what they're often called here in the US,
suspecked because we were in an English colony, and also to
to mark them from the black walnuts that grow here. Natively,
they're like there are at least two protected designations of
origin of English walnuts in France, the grandeble and the paragor.
(13:15):
I don't know if I just butchered that I looked
them up here we are. You can also grind and
press walnuts in order to produce walnut oil for cooking with.
They're about half oils by weight. Yeah, yeah, okay. People
make other products with walnuts, like like walnut and fused vinegars,
(13:36):
and then there's the category of green walnut liquors and wines.
So in this case, the walnuts are picked unripe, like
in late spring early summer, while their outer husk is
still bright green and unbroken and the inner shell is
still soft, like you can cut through the whole thing
with a knife. They are then soaked in alcohol and
(13:57):
sugar for usually a while, in order to produce this
category of like bitter, sweet and spicy and really rich tasting.
At parrot tiefs Vindnois is a French version with red
wine usually fortified with a spirit like brandy. No Chino
is an Italian version made with spirits of various kinds.
Different recipes we'll call for maybe like a fruit, brandy
(14:20):
or additional spices. Though there is like quite a lot
of flavor just in green walnuts alone due to the
aforementioned stuff in the husk just to begin with, you know,
the wood of the trees is also used for like
mostly like like sturdy but decorative objects, cabinets, furniture, stuff
like that.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yes, wow, what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Sustensibly food show, Yes, culinary nuts are nutritionally dense foods,
walnuts included. They've got a good punch of protein and
some good fats and fiber, lots of micronutrients that help
your body get stuff done. There has been lots of
research into the potential of walnuts and there in their
components to provide protection against various diseases and especially in
(15:08):
maintaining good gut health, which affects like a lot of
other systems we're finding out, and also in lowering like
bad LDL cholesterol levels. They're also just super easy to
incorporate into your diet. So most modern nutritional device is
often like, why not eat a small handful of walnuts
every day? Why not? But as with anything, you know,
(15:32):
eat them because you like them, and if you don't,
then don't do that. Also savor motto. You know, nutrition
is complicated, Our bodies are complicated. If you're ingesting a
medicinal amount of walnuts, I'm slightly confused because I don't
know how much that is, and that sounds like it's
probably a lot. Yes, but consult with the doctor before
you do. M hm, that's and that's not us.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Oh no, oh, absolutely not. Absolutely, we do have some
numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
We do. Okay. So, China produces the most walnuts of
this type by far, about half the world's supply, which
as of twenty twenty three was about two point six
million metric tons a year. The US trails at about
a third of the world supply, in Chile at around
(16:25):
a tenth. China is also the largest consumer of walnuts,
but the US, Turkey, and the EU eat a lot
as well. And yes, I am also frustrated that I
couldn't that no one broke it down beyond the EU.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
I'm like, you.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Realize that there are a number of cultures there, not
that there's not a number of cultures in the US
at any rate. About a third of what the United
States produces is sold in shell, which is like a
surprisingly large amount to me. Yeah, there are so many
festivals for this type of walnut. There are festivals in France, Greece,
(17:01):
the Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Turkey, the Carriers Republic, China, the
United States. Okay, one festival outside of Luxembourg has been
going on sporadically since nineteen thirty four and yearly since
nineteen seventy. They offer walnut liqueurs, nut breads and sausages
made with walnuts. That sounds fascinating, right. There's one in
(17:25):
Spain that involves building a giant bonfire in the town plaza,
gathering probably thousands of walnuts, and then pelting the crowd
with the walnuts from balconies around the plaza, and then
everyone drinks free wineing girls out all night. The kids
who attend usually come wearing bike helmets so that they
(17:48):
don't get tilted too hard.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
That's fantastic. Can you imagine if you didn't know what
was going on, then you're just getting it with walnuts?
Speaker 2 (18:05):
It sounds beautiful. I from what I understand, they more
or less. I mean, I think that there's a warning.
I don't think they just started doing it randomly, but
I could be wrong. I haven't been.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Oh, let us know listeners. Oh heck.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
There's one Incommon, Turkey that was in its thirty third
year this year. The town boasts a walnut tree that
is over three hundred and seventy five years old in
the town center. There's a festival, or there was a
festival south of London that ran for hundreds of years,
like back to the thirteen hundreds, before fizzling out in
(18:43):
eighteen sixty eight, I guess is the last year that
it occurred. There's one in Walnut Creek, California, that began
officially in nineteen thirty six, meaning twenty twenty four was
its eighty eighth year. Their mascot is this anthropomorphic walnut
like like it's like it's like a dude with a
walnut head and he's wearing like really like kingly green
(19:08):
robes and a green crown, like green and gold crown.
Past costume versions were creepy, creepy in ways that only
like historical paper mache mask costumes can be.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Oh wow, love it me too.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
It's these days it's basically like a carnival and music
and arts festival.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Generally speaking, though, I think that we have just missed
most of the walnut festivals around the world. They tend
to occur in like late September early October. H So
you know, make plans for next year or check your
local listings there. Again, are like a lot of.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
These things mm hmmm hmm. And not to be.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Outdone, there also are a few like Walnut symposia for
industry workers and researchers and you know, other interested parties.
The ninth International Symposium of the Walnut and Pecan happened
in Greno Bla. Am I saying that right, Grinobleu, I
think that's closer, No, thank you. In June of twenty
(20:12):
twenty three, there was one this January for ongoing research
in California, including people involved with I have to I
had to add this detail. It included people who are
involved with the Production Research Advisory Council's working groups, referred
to in this case as the Walnut crackout.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Mm hmm, very good, very good. Gotta love it.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Not a number still delightful very delightful.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Oh my goodness. Well, people have foul walnuts pretty delightful
for quite a long time.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Oh, they have, they have, and we are going to
get into that history as soon as we get back
from a quick break forward from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay.
So the ancestor of the English walnut goes back millions
and millions of years and probably originated in the Middle
East or Asian minor.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, the English walnut specifically, hence one of the other
names for this, not the Persian walnut. From genomic research,
it seems that this species in particular developed from a
hybrid of two more ancient walnut type trees now extinct
some three point four or five million years ago.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yes, there's a very in depth research paper about it.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Oh, there has been a lot of research about it
because it has been so food important and economically important
to so many people. So it's really cool, too much
for right now, it's really cool and a little overwhelming
for us.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yes, yeah. Anyway, anyway, people there were using them as
food as far back as seven thousand BCE, and eventually
these walnuts made their way to Europe, where both the
Greeks and Romans went on to cultivate it. Many historians
credit the Romans was spreading the walnut throughout much of Europe.
(22:30):
According to some sources, the Greeks selectively bred walnuts to
produce larger ones. When Mount Vesuvius blue and seventy nine
and Pompeii walnuts were left on the table of the
Temple of Isis, so people think that shows they were important. Howeber,
there were some mixed reviews I have to say health
(22:54):
wise about the walnut. Pliny the Elder If Pliny, oh,
we haven't talked about him so long, I can't remember
how to pronounce plenty Plenty the Elder, I'm so sorry,
wrote that sitting beneath walnut trees led to quote heaviness
of the head. In the first century CE.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Huh. Walnuts also made their way east to China, where
they were being cultivated there by at least one thousand CE. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Rights. Charlemagne had walnuts planted in his orchards in the
eighth century, and at one point in time, walnuts were
so popular in France that some French churches accepted them
as ties, and they were French officials appointed to prevent
walnut fraud. Ah. Yes, the historical records are of it sparse,
(23:48):
but some historians speculate that walnuts were more widely incorporated
in European cooking during the Crusades in medieval times, when
there was more exposure to Arab deserts that contained nuts
and a lot of our nut desserts. Oh yeah, episodes
you can see. Oh yeah, we talked about that.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
In the thirteen ninety three work La Manajre de paris,
a sort of etiquette guide from the point of view
of an older man towards his younger bride. I'm very
interested in Yeah, I know, I was like, stops off, stop,
we can't go into this. But in it they claim
that walnuts led to headaches. So going back to it.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, probably those tannins, man, Probably those tannins.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
You know, I'm really going to have to think about this.
I'm really gonna have to think about this. Something else
I enjoyed, especially since as we're recording this it's October.
There is a really fun legend that dates back to
around this time about the benevent though witches or I
say fun, but as fun as medieval europe legends about
(24:56):
witches can be sure, yeah, but it centers around a
walnut tree in Benevento and what is modern day Italy.
During Roman rule, people worshiped the Egyptian goddess Isis under
this tree. Later, there were rumors of pagan worship under
the tree, eventually allegedly leading to a bishop having it
(25:19):
uprooted in the seventh century. But because of all this,
legends grew around using trees as places to worship in
the area, many of them associated with Satan. Legend goes
that people started writing about a walnut tree in Benevento
where witches came to gather for their sabbaths, and they
(25:41):
would cast evil spells under the tree, which would appear
for the occasion like confused by it.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Like this uprooted tree would reappear for them to hold
their sabbaths under Okay cool, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Yes, and then the witches would fly off after their
evil doing is done and the tree disappear again. The
inquisition allegedly would make accused witches confess that they had
flown to the walnut tree and Benevento and cast spells.
The legend is pretty popular. Some suggest that it led
(26:16):
to a link between the Italian word for walnut and
the Latin word for harm. There's also a series of
children's books based on this legend, and I would love
for people to write and if they've read them. I
visited the site and I think I would have really
liked them as a kid. But it had sort of
a faq about where the author was coming from the history.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yeah, I ran out of time to look into this today,
but I am so curious to just like unearth all
of the weird little details about it. And yeah, so
if there are more weird little details about it, then
you can bet that there will be a short episode
sometime in the future.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Yes, and let us know, oh, if you know them.
It was. It was showing up on tourist websites, so
it's a thing pretty popular.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah, and this is part of also where where legends
surrounding Nochino come from. That the fine folks at a
hine were talking about, because right, you're using these green
walnuts and other potentially witchy herbs to.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Make the cores. Yes, and it was very secretive, very secretive. Anyway, anyway,
that side aside, A rough winter in seventeen o nine
destroyed almost two thirds of the mature walnut trees in
northern Europe. Moving on, during the seventeenth century, parts of
(27:44):
Europe went through something of a trend when it came
to using the wood of walnut trees for furniture. People
really liked the colors of the wood, they liked the
patterns of the grain. However, this trend was relatively short
lived at five decades when at that point would from
Central America became the preference for many European furniture makers.
(28:08):
In seventeen twenty, during the peak of British colonization, English
traders traded a lot of walnuts, which is when they
might have gotten the nickname English walnuts. Sure, and then
Franciscan monks started planting these walnuts in California in the
late seventeen hundreds and called the mission walnuts. So to
(28:31):
recap the name names they are confusing.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Uh huh, but from what I.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Read, basically, walnuts were introduced to Europe via Asia Persian walnuts,
which were then introduced much later to a lot of
the world through English merchants. English walnuts. Then Franciscan monks
in California started growing them, dubbing them Mission walnuts. But
then there was further confusion because yes, there is a
(29:00):
variety native to North America, so.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah, and to California specifically, there's a couple species in
North America of native black walnuts. Again separate episode. Meanwhile,
speaking of names, the botanical name for the walnuts that
we are talking about today, jew glands Regia, literally means
something to the extent of the regal nuts of Jupiter.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
It's amazing, right, congrats English walnut. Great name. Amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Anyway, in California, this type of walnut spread as farmers
adopted it as a cash crop starting in around the
eighteen sixties.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
And then I read in the eighteen eighties gilded walnuts
were a popular Christmas ornament in Europe, and according to
some things I read, there were like small prizes.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yeah, so you'd like you'd empty out the shell, put
in a little prize, glue the shell back together, and
then apply gold leaf or like a golden foil to
the shells. This is still a craft thing that people
occasionally do, like modernly, you might use gold paint because
that's easier, but and like you might not bother to
remove the nut.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
But yeah, all very cool. Love it. That's very cool.
I love it. Records indicate walnuts did become popular as
of food stuff in England until after World War One,
although I think it's in our modern context and understanding,
but yeah, I was kind of surprised by that too.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah, California plantings really boomed during Prohibition because vineyards went
into decline during that time and people were like, oh,
we need to pivot somewhere.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yep, yep. And in the twenty tens, walnuts got wrapped
up in a lot of health marketing in the United States.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, I'd say starting back in the nineteen nineties really,
as that was the first wave of the Mediterranean diet trend,
which kind of comes back around once every few years
in some circles, has never really left. So there's been
a bunch of buzz about it this year too.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
So yeah, yeah, wow. As mentioned, research is ongoing into
these walnuts.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Oh, it certainly is. Okay, all right, Two science updates
for you.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
One, walnuts are particularly hard nuts to crack pun intended
and credit to Science Magazine for that one. In twenty nineteen,
a team of researchers put out the study about the
microstructure of walnut shells, in which they had to create
a new name for the shapes of the cells that
make up the material of the shell because it's different
(31:56):
from anything they had ever really seen before. It's sort
of like this three D jigsaw of irregularly contoured lobes,
each in contact with an average of fourteen other cells.
So they called them polylobate sclariat cells. Rolls off the
(32:17):
Townue and yeah, they're just very intricately fitted and very tough,
like a like an unnecessarily complex honeycomb. They basically cannot
be pulled apart at the cell joints due to the
sheer tensile strength of the surrounding cells all pushing together
at like an average of fourteen points. You have to
(32:40):
break open the walls of the cells themselves in order
to crack up in a walnut.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Wow. Yeah, that's great, so cool.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
People are like researchers are like hoping to look at
that for you know, like building materials in the future.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Also, just this year twenty twenty four, researchers announced the
discovery of three new species in the walnut genus that
have been long extinct. They were part of this huge
forest some forty five million years ago on the shores
of the Arctic Ocean, which at that point had forests.
(33:20):
Evidence shows that animals were eating and possibly even cashing,
walnuts back then. So I love that the animal behavior
of caching nuts, of taking nuts to a little specific
place and kind of hiding them away for later has
been around for that long. It's so cool.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
That is really cool. They were onto something, they knew
what was up. Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
There's other evidence that squirrels different types of nut collecting
squirrels will in fact cash nuts in different locations based
on the size and proceed quality of that nut. So
they're like they're like, well, like my like B grade
nuts are over here, but my A grade nuts are
over here, and so like I might kind of fake
out another squirrel by like going to put a B
(34:11):
grade nut in my A grade space, but then I'll
actually like take it back to the B grade place
when they're not looking, so that I like hide my
A grade nuts.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Wow, I'm discerning. I love it calculating these squirrels.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
When when you see them just sitting there kind of
like rubbing their little hands, like yeah, they're not just
it's not a dial tone happening in there, and they're
actually thinking.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Oh, yeah, how do I preserve my best quality nuts
so no one knows about it? Well, I think that's
what we have to say about English walnuts for now.
I think it is uh but uh.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
If you have anything to say about English walnuts, we
would love to hear from you. And furthermore, we already
have some of less their mail for you and we
are going to get into that as soon as we
get back from one more quick break for a word
from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
And we're back. Thank you, sonsors, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with the snort. They're hard to crack, those words,
they are, That's true. Melina wrote, I wanted to thank
you for helping me plan my wedding. I was inspired
(35:37):
by your discussion of cookie tables on the Pitsele episode.
I still had a wedding cake since my mom has
made them for years and I needed to have her
involvement there. However, I was able to recruit family members
on both sides to make our favorite cookie recipes to
pack in boxes as favors for the guests. I loved
(35:58):
how it tells a story of how our families are
combining through food and everyone enjoyed being able to take
home a bunch of cookies. Of course, my bridesmaid from
Pennsylvania was very happy to see this regional tradition incorporated
as well. Thank you for solving my problem of coming
up with favors and inspiring me with how to involve
(36:18):
everyone in our families. Oh, thank you love. Oh and congratulations, yes, congratulations.
Melita sent us some pictures. It looks like it was
a lovely time, a lot of cookies to be had,
which of course enhances the lovely time. Oh yeah, but
(36:42):
I love that I do. That's such a great That's
just really lovely to hear, because we have said before
it's fantastic when our listeners share these things that I
had never heard of this before, and then hearing that
inspired you. You then in turn brought together your family
(37:05):
in a way of like different different recipes.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
And brought joy cookie joy.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Oh it's so good.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Yes, Jackie wrote, I was delighted when I refreshed my
feed and found an episode about beer again. Not I
may do I love beer, but dark beers of all
sorts are my favorite fall time. I own and operate
a small craft brewery in Spokane, Washington with my partner
in business and life, and we specialize in mostly darker
(37:35):
malt forward beers from American ambers, Scottish ales and darker.
One of the reasons we do is because I love
them so much I drink them year round. That being said,
you were asking about other styles of dark laggers, of
which there are many. Beside the German schwartz beers, there
are many from multiple continents with famous dark laggers, like
(37:56):
the Mexican, the Gromaldello, Belize, Belican, Black Croatia in dark laggers,
Baltic porters, and so many more. I have personal connections
with these styles of dark laggers, seeing as my brewery
has had most of, not all of these styles before.
They are perfect for people who like to drink toasty
beers year round with a lower ABV and lighter mouthfeel.
Before wide popularity, you mostly found these styles of beer
(38:18):
in places that specialize in laggering or countries that are
warmer near the equator where it's harder to market and
sell traditional stouts and porters. Also, I'm sure you've already
heard from a few people already that yeast was not
included in the original German beer law. The reason was
it had not been discovered and named yet and discovered
that it played a role in fermentation until the eighteen
(38:41):
fifties by Louis Pastor. It wasn't until later that it
was grandfathered in as a given with water hops and barley.
Thank you so much for all you do and the
hours of entertainment you've given me over the years. I
have been a Stuff podcast listener since the start and
was absolutely delighted that you two started this one and
decided to include beverages too, which is my special interest
(39:01):
in the food realm.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Well, of course, yeah, Oh that's fabulous.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
That sounds like a really fun Oh I would like
be in danger in that kind of craft brewery because
I also write I love I love Dark Loggers always
a hit.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Yes, yes, I am very intrigued. Since we did that episode,
I have been on the lookout. Oh yeah, I haven't
found any yet, but there's a lot of ideas within
this email of things that can look for getting cooler
here in Atlanta. So if I want to hit that
(39:37):
like fall dark Logger feel, even though you can drink
them whenever it's time, it's time.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Oh yeah, yeah, and even here at Atlanta, certainly I'm
not sure about other areas, but yeah, Modelo is a
really popular brand and so and usually it just has
the lighter logger, but the darker one, the negro. Modelo
is pretty much everywhere, many places, easy to find. Really
good for making chili, so good for putting in chili.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
That is hilarious. You mentioned that because I'm making chili tonight.
Oh yeah, Fortunately I don't have here, but noted.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Yeah, and yeah, thank you for the note about yeast.
I think that, like, especially if we're kind of writing quickly,
we will write down that that was a historical component,
although yes, of course there were centuries in between most
of these beer styles being developed and the realization that
yeast is what was making them work.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Yes, yeah, and also the ghost of Pilsner, which one
day we'll get to.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
The pale, pale ghost of Pilsner.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Which is in all of these stories. But yes, thank you, yes,
thank you to both of these listeners are writing too. Is.
If you would like to contact us, you can Our
email is hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
We are also on social media. You can find us
on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saverpod. And we do
hope to hear from You Savor is production of iHeartRadio
former podcasts from Myheartradio. You can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Savior Prediction of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Annie Reas and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we
have an episode for you about walnuts, specifically English walnuts
or Persian walnuts or golden walnuts. It's this particular kind
of walnut. It has a lot of names, it does,
and we will talk about this.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Oh yeah, because yeah, there's a lot of different walnuts
out there, and we can't do it all right now,
that is so true.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yes, I realized very quickly, in kind of like poking
into this topic that yeah, this has to be an
episode about only one type of walnut. So if you
are here hoping for information about black walnuts, I am
so sorry to disappoint you, but that is going to
have to be a future episode.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Indeed. Indeed, I think when I was doing my usual
what are my thoughts about whatever topic, the school the
university my dad taught at, had walnut trees. Oh, and
it was just kind of a thing on campus that
they had these walnuts, and I thought it was the
coolest thing as a kid. But they must have been
(01:16):
black walnut trees, I think, I don't know. But anyway,
was there any particular reason these.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Were on your mind, Lauria, we hadn't done a nut
episode in a while. And I do associate these in
particular with like family and like fall into winter kind
of stuff. An old person. Thing I do that I
think I've mentioned on the show before is around the
winter holidays, I'll put out a bowl of in shell
(01:45):
nuts in my living room so that guests can confound
themselves by attempting to crack open nuts.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yes, I love it. I love it. I also associate
them with the holidays. I believe I've told this story before,
but my mom stopped giving me candy in my stocking
for Christmas because I don't eat candy. Yeah yeah, but
she was so she's been trying to find like a substitute, yeah,
(02:16):
whatever it is. And she has given me a lot
of nuts over the I have so many, and I
believe a lot of you listeners know. But the reason
I have been absent recently, if you're listening to this
as it comes out, was I did Jerry duty and
(02:37):
I was very concerned about my stomach growling. Oh sure, yeah.
And I don't normally eat snacks, as I've talked about
on here before. The lunch situation wasn't great. So I
did eat packs of walnuts that my mom did me
(03:00):
and it did it was good. It was it got
me through no stomach rumbling. That's so good.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, I little little packets of nuts are yeah, one
of those snacks that I usually have, if not directly
on my person, Like I've just forgotten them that day
because right, yeah, Like it's with being vaguely hypoglycemic. I'm
just like, wow, like if I run out of blood sugar,
everyone is going to have to deal with me, and
I don't want them to have to do that, so
(03:28):
I should probably pack a snack. It's like having a
five year old. But it's just me.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I love it. I love it. And nuts have betrayed
us before I have to say where, right we start
researching it's not a nut, but we have done several
related episodes.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah, within the category of culinary nuts. Yes, you can
see our episodes on hazel nuts, pistachios, cashew's chestnuts, macadamia's, pecans, pecans,
whatever way you want to say it. I have been
avoiding almends. I've been avoiding almends.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
It's big. It's big. That's a tough one. Yeah, uh.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
You can also see our Ashville episode about Amari in
which we do talk about Nocino and speaking of Ashville,
if any of our listeners are out there, I really
hope you're doing okay, you and your family and all
of your We we do. We do, not just me,
not like Annie is like Nscar. You guys, we hope
(04:31):
that you're doing as well as possible and that you
are receiving support. I have been like slowly checking in
with folks from Asheville who we spoke with on the
show when we went there. Everyone that I've seen posts
so far, Everyone who I've been able to get a
hold of has been, you know, working through it and
doing okay. The people with Eda Ryan specifically, who we're
(04:55):
talking with us about Nocino the Distillery came through just okay.
They do have a go fund me up for their staff.
So if if you have been touched by their interviews
or by their their horror story, their ghost story that
they sent us, or anything like that, feel free to
feel free to go look up at A rhine E
(05:16):
d A r h y n E and I'm sure
that'll pop up.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yes, yes, and we do hope all of you are doing. Okay,
I'm right in and let us know. But yes, I
guess this brings us to our question. Sure, English walnuts,
what are they? Well?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So called English walnuts, go buy many other names, but
they are a type of culinary nut that grows in
this thin, stiff, lightweight, sort of gnarled, pale brown shell.
They do take some force to crack open, but the
kernel inside will be like a little wrinkly nut brain,
with this thin golden skin that gives you a pop
(06:02):
of bitter flavor and white flesh crunchy and sweet and
a little creamy or melting as you chew it from
all the fats that it contains. They can be eaten
by themselves or used in any number of sweet or
savory dishes. Raw or dried or roasted. Roasting them will
bring out there like warm sweet nuttiness. Yeah yeah, but yeah.
(06:24):
Chopped into a salad, or into baked goods or ice creams,
or with cereal grains of whatever kind, you can serve
them as a snack, salted or sugared or spiced, maybe
alongside cheeses or fruits. They can be coated with or
chopped into chocolate. They can be ground into a flour
and used in baked goods, or a paste and used
in sauces and spreads, crushed and used as a like
(06:46):
crunchy coating on proteins or baked goods. They can be
ground for their oil, which will often be used in
like low heat or cold dishes to preserve the sort
of delicate, slightly sweet flavor of them. Ripe ones are
used to make better sweet liqueurs. They are nutritionally dense
and kind of kind of endlessly useful. They're like little
(07:09):
pre wrapped protein bars. They're like being outside on a
sunny day in the fall when you're when you're bundled
up warm, but then you get hit with like a
with like a sharp woodsy wind. Uh you know that
like smell of of of of of.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Of leaves falling.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
It's a it's a feeling that's warm and round and
also sort of bitter.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
M It's a lovely feeling.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
It is it is.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
They're they're just they're nice. They're nice.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Okay, so bo tannable name jew Glands Regia. These walnuts
are the seed of the fruit of the walnut tree. No,
they are not a true nut. They are a pseudo
droop similar to a peach or like a cherry. You know,
instead of eating the flesh of the fruit and discarding
(08:02):
the pit, we discard the flesh and crack open the
pit to get the seed inside. While nut trees are
large deciduous trees that grow to around forty to sixty
feet that's like twelve to eighteen meters, with a thick
gray bark and broad, flat, oval shaped green leaves. They
grow in temperate, like relatively dryish climates. It'll take some
(08:24):
five years before a new tree will start to fruit,
and about twenty before it grows like a really worthwhile crop.
In the spring, the trees bloom with both male and
female flowers, the male ones and these tiny drooping clusters
that look like little miniature grapes kind of, and the
female ones and these small clusters of buds. If pollinated,
the buds will develop into a green fruit that looks
(08:46):
a little bit like a small smooth lime, or maybe
like an unripe plum, but is constructed very differently, certainly
from a lime.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
The outer layer is this tough husk that's whitish green,
and in cases what will develop into that hard, pale
brown shell. Inside of that you get to the actual seed,
this double lobed little proto plant, you know, wrapped up
with nutritious stuff for that plant to eat should it
(09:17):
germinate and start growing. But suckers, we learned that we
like eating that stuff too, so they don't usually get
to it. The thin seed coat on walnuts looks veined
because those were veins that fed nutrients to the developing seed,
and that seed coat is better with these phenolic compounds
that can stain white dough sort of purpleish. So if
(09:39):
you've ever been working with them in a baked good
and gone like, why is my dough turning purple? It's
a seed coat. Here you go. As the nut inside matures,
that green outer husk will split open, revealing the developed shell.
And the husk itself is super interesting because it, along
(10:00):
with like the body and the roots of the tree,
contains a bunch more of these potent phenolic compounds. One
of them is named after the walnut genus jew glow,
and it will stain everything it touches rusty brown, and
it gets into the ground around walnut trees and will
basically scald a lot of other plants that it interacts with,
(10:22):
like especially delicate things like tomatoes. The other phenolic compound
or other main one in there is gallic acid, which
is this astringent found in other things like black tea
and grape skins and is also staining. So Annie, if
you've ever had a problem eating walnuts, this is why
here you go.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
My brain is turning over some things. Yes, oh sorry,
all good. The shell is also really cool. It's technically,
like botanically part of the fruit, not the seed, because
it develops from the flowers ovary, but that's sort of
that's sort of neither here nor there. Anyway, While the
(11:03):
fruit is growing, the shell starts out as like active,
living soft tissue, and then as the fruit matures, it
goes into this sort of like like castle defense mode,
and each cell of what will be the shell starts
thickening its walls from the inside of the cell, like
pushing its old layers outward, and those old layers will
(11:27):
start locking together with the other outer layers of neighboring
cells in like a really tight jigsaw. And so in
doing this, each cell will eventually fortify itself so intensely
that it cannot receive supplies and will die, becoming stiff
like a like a like a rigid styrofoam grain or
(11:47):
something like that.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah right, it's like kind of metal. I'm like, all right, heck, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
I see why you. I got a message from larn
right before we were about to record that was like
I have to I'm still reading about the shell. It's
like okay, okay, yeah, I understand. Yeah, yeah, it's really cool.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
There's actually more on this later in the history section,
but anyway, okay. Walnuts are often harvested and kind of
two stages. First, you'll use a tractor with this attachment
that basically just like vigorously shakes each tree and it
knocks the nuts in their shells loose from those opened husks,
so they fall to the ground. And then you come
(12:30):
back through with a vehicle that has a kind of
like conveyor belt vacuum thing on the front end that
just pulls the nuts up into a bet on the back. Yeah.
They could be sold fresh, but are more commonly dried,
either in shell or after dshelling. And there are just
a lot of cultivars. They are not originally from England,
(12:52):
and they have a lot of names. As we've said,
I went with English walnut as kind of a catch
all because that's what they're often called here in the US,
suspecked because we were in an English colony, and also to
to mark them from the black walnuts that grow here. Natively,
they're like there are at least two protected designations of
origin of English walnuts in France, the grandeble and the paragor.
(13:15):
I don't know if I just butchered that I looked
them up here we are. You can also grind and
press walnuts in order to produce walnut oil for cooking with.
They're about half oils by weight. Yeah, yeah, okay. People
make other products with walnuts, like like walnut and fused vinegars,
(13:36):
and then there's the category of green walnut liquors and wines.
So in this case, the walnuts are picked unripe, like
in late spring early summer, while their outer husk is
still bright green and unbroken and the inner shell is
still soft, like you can cut through the whole thing
with a knife. They are then soaked in alcohol and
(13:57):
sugar for usually a while, in order to produce this
category of like bitter, sweet and spicy and really rich tasting.
At parrot tiefs Vindnois is a French version with red
wine usually fortified with a spirit like brandy. No Chino
is an Italian version made with spirits of various kinds.
Different recipes we'll call for maybe like a fruit, brandy
(14:20):
or additional spices. Though there is like quite a lot
of flavor just in green walnuts alone due to the
aforementioned stuff in the husk just to begin with, you know,
the wood of the trees is also used for like
mostly like like sturdy but decorative objects, cabinets, furniture, stuff
like that.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yes, wow, what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Sustensibly food show, Yes, culinary nuts are nutritionally dense foods,
walnuts included. They've got a good punch of protein and
some good fats and fiber, lots of micronutrients that help
your body get stuff done. There has been lots of
research into the potential of walnuts and there in their
components to provide protection against various diseases and especially in
(15:08):
maintaining good gut health, which affects like a lot of
other systems we're finding out, and also in lowering like
bad LDL cholesterol levels. They're also just super easy to
incorporate into your diet. So most modern nutritional device is
often like, why not eat a small handful of walnuts
every day? Why not? But as with anything, you know,
(15:32):
eat them because you like them, and if you don't,
then don't do that. Also savor motto. You know, nutrition
is complicated, Our bodies are complicated. If you're ingesting a
medicinal amount of walnuts, I'm slightly confused because I don't
know how much that is, and that sounds like it's
probably a lot. Yes, but consult with the doctor before
you do. M hm, that's and that's not us.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Oh no, oh, absolutely not. Absolutely, we do have some
numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
We do. Okay. So, China produces the most walnuts of
this type by far, about half the world's supply, which
as of twenty twenty three was about two point six
million metric tons a year. The US trails at about
a third of the world supply, in Chile at around
(16:25):
a tenth. China is also the largest consumer of walnuts,
but the US, Turkey, and the EU eat a lot
as well. And yes, I am also frustrated that I
couldn't that no one broke it down beyond the EU.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
I'm like, you.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Realize that there are a number of cultures there, not
that there's not a number of cultures in the US
at any rate. About a third of what the United
States produces is sold in shell, which is like a
surprisingly large amount to me. Yeah, there are so many
festivals for this type of walnut. There are festivals in France, Greece,
(17:01):
the Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Turkey, the Carriers Republic, China, the
United States. Okay, one festival outside of Luxembourg has been
going on sporadically since nineteen thirty four and yearly since
nineteen seventy. They offer walnut liqueurs, nut breads and sausages
made with walnuts. That sounds fascinating, right. There's one in
(17:25):
Spain that involves building a giant bonfire in the town plaza,
gathering probably thousands of walnuts, and then pelting the crowd
with the walnuts from balconies around the plaza, and then
everyone drinks free wineing girls out all night. The kids
who attend usually come wearing bike helmets so that they
(17:48):
don't get tilted too hard.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
That's fantastic. Can you imagine if you didn't know what
was going on, then you're just getting it with walnuts?
Speaker 2 (18:05):
It sounds beautiful. I from what I understand, they more
or less. I mean, I think that there's a warning.
I don't think they just started doing it randomly, but
I could be wrong. I haven't been.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Oh, let us know listeners. Oh heck.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
There's one Incommon, Turkey that was in its thirty third
year this year. The town boasts a walnut tree that
is over three hundred and seventy five years old in
the town center. There's a festival, or there was a
festival south of London that ran for hundreds of years,
like back to the thirteen hundreds, before fizzling out in
(18:43):
eighteen sixty eight, I guess is the last year that
it occurred. There's one in Walnut Creek, California, that began
officially in nineteen thirty six, meaning twenty twenty four was
its eighty eighth year. Their mascot is this anthropomorphic walnut
like like it's like it's like a dude with a
walnut head and he's wearing like really like kingly green
(19:08):
robes and a green crown, like green and gold crown.
Past costume versions were creepy, creepy in ways that only
like historical paper mache mask costumes can be.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Oh wow, love it me too.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
It's these days it's basically like a carnival and music
and arts festival.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Generally speaking, though, I think that we have just missed
most of the walnut festivals around the world. They tend
to occur in like late September early October. H So
you know, make plans for next year or check your
local listings there. Again, are like a lot of.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
These things mm hmmm hmm. And not to be.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Outdone, there also are a few like Walnut symposia for
industry workers and researchers and you know, other interested parties.
The ninth International Symposium of the Walnut and Pecan happened
in Greno Bla. Am I saying that right, Grinobleu, I
think that's closer, No, thank you. In June of twenty
(20:12):
twenty three, there was one this January for ongoing research
in California, including people involved with I have to I
had to add this detail. It included people who are
involved with the Production Research Advisory Council's working groups, referred
to in this case as the Walnut crackout.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Mm hmm, very good, very good. Gotta love it.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Not a number still delightful very delightful.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Oh my goodness. Well, people have foul walnuts pretty delightful
for quite a long time.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Oh, they have, they have, and we are going to
get into that history as soon as we get back
from a quick break forward from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay.
So the ancestor of the English walnut goes back millions
and millions of years and probably originated in the Middle
East or Asian minor.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, the English walnut specifically, hence one of the other
names for this, not the Persian walnut. From genomic research,
it seems that this species in particular developed from a
hybrid of two more ancient walnut type trees now extinct
some three point four or five million years ago.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yes, there's a very in depth research paper about it.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Oh, there has been a lot of research about it
because it has been so food important and economically important
to so many people. So it's really cool, too much
for right now, it's really cool and a little overwhelming
for us.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yes, yeah. Anyway, anyway, people there were using them as
food as far back as seven thousand BCE, and eventually
these walnuts made their way to Europe, where both the
Greeks and Romans went on to cultivate it. Many historians
credit the Romans was spreading the walnut throughout much of Europe.
(22:30):
According to some sources, the Greeks selectively bred walnuts to
produce larger ones. When Mount Vesuvius blue and seventy nine
and Pompeii walnuts were left on the table of the
Temple of Isis, so people think that shows they were important. Howeber,
there were some mixed reviews I have to say health
(22:54):
wise about the walnut. Pliny the Elder If Pliny, oh,
we haven't talked about him so long, I can't remember
how to pronounce plenty Plenty the Elder, I'm so sorry,
wrote that sitting beneath walnut trees led to quote heaviness
of the head. In the first century CE.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Huh. Walnuts also made their way east to China, where
they were being cultivated there by at least one thousand CE. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Rights. Charlemagne had walnuts planted in his orchards in the
eighth century, and at one point in time, walnuts were
so popular in France that some French churches accepted them
as ties, and they were French officials appointed to prevent
walnut fraud. Ah. Yes, the historical records are of it sparse,
(23:48):
but some historians speculate that walnuts were more widely incorporated
in European cooking during the Crusades in medieval times, when
there was more exposure to Arab deserts that contained nuts
and a lot of our nut desserts. Oh yeah, episodes
you can see. Oh yeah, we talked about that.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
In the thirteen ninety three work La Manajre de paris,
a sort of etiquette guide from the point of view
of an older man towards his younger bride. I'm very
interested in Yeah, I know, I was like, stops off, stop,
we can't go into this. But in it they claim
that walnuts led to headaches. So going back to it.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, probably those tannins, man, Probably those tannins.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
You know, I'm really going to have to think about this.
I'm really gonna have to think about this. Something else
I enjoyed, especially since as we're recording this it's October.
There is a really fun legend that dates back to
around this time about the benevent though witches or I
say fun, but as fun as medieval europe legends about
(24:56):
witches can be sure, yeah, but it centers around a
walnut tree in Benevento and what is modern day Italy.
During Roman rule, people worshiped the Egyptian goddess Isis under
this tree. Later, there were rumors of pagan worship under
the tree, eventually allegedly leading to a bishop having it
(25:19):
uprooted in the seventh century. But because of all this,
legends grew around using trees as places to worship in
the area, many of them associated with Satan. Legend goes
that people started writing about a walnut tree in Benevento
where witches came to gather for their sabbaths, and they
(25:41):
would cast evil spells under the tree, which would appear
for the occasion like confused by it.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Like this uprooted tree would reappear for them to hold
their sabbaths under Okay cool, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Yes, and then the witches would fly off after their
evil doing is done and the tree disappear again. The
inquisition allegedly would make accused witches confess that they had
flown to the walnut tree and Benevento and cast spells.
The legend is pretty popular. Some suggest that it led
(26:16):
to a link between the Italian word for walnut and
the Latin word for harm. There's also a series of
children's books based on this legend, and I would love
for people to write and if they've read them. I
visited the site and I think I would have really
liked them as a kid. But it had sort of
a faq about where the author was coming from the history.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yeah, I ran out of time to look into this today,
but I am so curious to just like unearth all
of the weird little details about it. And yeah, so
if there are more weird little details about it, then
you can bet that there will be a short episode
sometime in the future.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Yes, and let us know, oh, if you know them.
It was. It was showing up on tourist websites, so
it's a thing pretty popular.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah, and this is part of also where where legends
surrounding Nochino come from. That the fine folks at a
hine were talking about, because right, you're using these green
walnuts and other potentially witchy herbs to.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Make the cores. Yes, and it was very secretive, very secretive. Anyway, anyway,
that side aside, A rough winter in seventeen o nine
destroyed almost two thirds of the mature walnut trees in
northern Europe. Moving on, during the seventeenth century, parts of
(27:44):
Europe went through something of a trend when it came
to using the wood of walnut trees for furniture. People
really liked the colors of the wood, they liked the
patterns of the grain. However, this trend was relatively short
lived at five decades when at that point would from
Central America became the preference for many European furniture makers.
(28:08):
In seventeen twenty, during the peak of British colonization, English
traders traded a lot of walnuts, which is when they
might have gotten the nickname English walnuts. Sure, and then
Franciscan monks started planting these walnuts in California in the
late seventeen hundreds and called the mission walnuts. So to
(28:31):
recap the name names they are confusing.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Uh huh, but from what I.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Read, basically, walnuts were introduced to Europe via Asia Persian walnuts,
which were then introduced much later to a lot of
the world through English merchants. English walnuts. Then Franciscan monks
in California started growing them, dubbing them Mission walnuts. But
then there was further confusion because yes, there is a
(29:00):
variety native to North America, so.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah, and to California specifically, there's a couple species in
North America of native black walnuts. Again separate episode. Meanwhile,
speaking of names, the botanical name for the walnuts that
we are talking about today, jew glands Regia, literally means
something to the extent of the regal nuts of Jupiter.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
It's amazing, right, congrats English walnut. Great name. Amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Anyway, in California, this type of walnut spread as farmers
adopted it as a cash crop starting in around the
eighteen sixties.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
And then I read in the eighteen eighties gilded walnuts
were a popular Christmas ornament in Europe, and according to
some things I read, there were like small prizes.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yeah, so you'd like you'd empty out the shell, put
in a little prize, glue the shell back together, and
then apply gold leaf or like a golden foil to
the shells. This is still a craft thing that people
occasionally do, like modernly, you might use gold paint because
that's easier, but and like you might not bother to
remove the nut.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
But yeah, all very cool. Love it. That's very cool.
I love it. Records indicate walnuts did become popular as
of food stuff in England until after World War One,
although I think it's in our modern context and understanding,
but yeah, I was kind of surprised by that too.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah, California plantings really boomed during Prohibition because vineyards went
into decline during that time and people were like, oh,
we need to pivot somewhere.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yep, yep. And in the twenty tens, walnuts got wrapped
up in a lot of health marketing in the United States.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, I'd say starting back in the nineteen nineties really,
as that was the first wave of the Mediterranean diet trend,
which kind of comes back around once every few years
in some circles, has never really left. So there's been
a bunch of buzz about it this year too.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
So yeah, yeah, wow. As mentioned, research is ongoing into
these walnuts.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Oh, it certainly is. Okay, all right, Two science updates
for you.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
One, walnuts are particularly hard nuts to crack pun intended
and credit to Science Magazine for that one. In twenty nineteen,
a team of researchers put out the study about the
microstructure of walnut shells, in which they had to create
a new name for the shapes of the cells that
make up the material of the shell because it's different
(31:56):
from anything they had ever really seen before. It's sort
of like this three D jigsaw of irregularly contoured lobes,
each in contact with an average of fourteen other cells.
So they called them polylobate sclariat cells. Rolls off the
(32:17):
Townue and yeah, they're just very intricately fitted and very tough,
like a like an unnecessarily complex honeycomb. They basically cannot
be pulled apart at the cell joints due to the
sheer tensile strength of the surrounding cells all pushing together
at like an average of fourteen points. You have to
(32:40):
break open the walls of the cells themselves in order
to crack up in a walnut.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Wow. Yeah, that's great, so cool.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
People are like researchers are like hoping to look at
that for you know, like building materials in the future.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Also, just this year twenty twenty four, researchers announced the
discovery of three new species in the walnut genus that
have been long extinct. They were part of this huge
forest some forty five million years ago on the shores
of the Arctic Ocean, which at that point had forests.
(33:20):
Evidence shows that animals were eating and possibly even cashing,
walnuts back then. So I love that the animal behavior
of caching nuts, of taking nuts to a little specific
place and kind of hiding them away for later has
been around for that long. It's so cool.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
That is really cool. They were onto something, they knew
what was up. Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
There's other evidence that squirrels different types of nut collecting
squirrels will in fact cash nuts in different locations based
on the size and proceed quality of that nut. So
they're like they're like, well, like my like B grade
nuts are over here, but my A grade nuts are
over here, and so like I might kind of fake
out another squirrel by like going to put a B
(34:11):
grade nut in my A grade space, but then I'll
actually like take it back to the B grade place
when they're not looking, so that I like hide my
A grade nuts.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Wow, I'm discerning. I love it calculating these squirrels.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
When when you see them just sitting there kind of
like rubbing their little hands, like yeah, they're not just
it's not a dial tone happening in there, and they're
actually thinking.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Oh, yeah, how do I preserve my best quality nuts
so no one knows about it? Well, I think that's
what we have to say about English walnuts for now.
I think it is uh but uh.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
If you have anything to say about English walnuts, we
would love to hear from you. And furthermore, we already
have some of less their mail for you and we
are going to get into that as soon as we
get back from one more quick break for a word
from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
And we're back. Thank you, sonsors, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with the snort. They're hard to crack, those words,
they are, That's true. Melina wrote, I wanted to thank
you for helping me plan my wedding. I was inspired
(35:37):
by your discussion of cookie tables on the Pitsele episode.
I still had a wedding cake since my mom has
made them for years and I needed to have her
involvement there. However, I was able to recruit family members
on both sides to make our favorite cookie recipes to
pack in boxes as favors for the guests. I loved
(35:58):
how it tells a story of how our families are
combining through food and everyone enjoyed being able to take
home a bunch of cookies. Of course, my bridesmaid from
Pennsylvania was very happy to see this regional tradition incorporated
as well. Thank you for solving my problem of coming
up with favors and inspiring me with how to involve
(36:18):
everyone in our families. Oh, thank you love. Oh and congratulations, yes, congratulations.
Melita sent us some pictures. It looks like it was
a lovely time, a lot of cookies to be had,
which of course enhances the lovely time. Oh yeah, but
(36:42):
I love that I do. That's such a great That's
just really lovely to hear, because we have said before
it's fantastic when our listeners share these things that I
had never heard of this before, and then hearing that
inspired you. You then in turn brought together your family
(37:05):
in a way of like different different recipes.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
And brought joy cookie joy.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Oh it's so good.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Yes, Jackie wrote, I was delighted when I refreshed my
feed and found an episode about beer again. Not I
may do I love beer, but dark beers of all
sorts are my favorite fall time. I own and operate
a small craft brewery in Spokane, Washington with my partner
in business and life, and we specialize in mostly darker
(37:35):
malt forward beers from American ambers, Scottish ales and darker.
One of the reasons we do is because I love
them so much I drink them year round. That being said,
you were asking about other styles of dark laggers, of
which there are many. Beside the German schwartz beers, there
are many from multiple continents with famous dark laggers, like
(37:56):
the Mexican, the Gromaldello, Belize, Belican, Black Croatia in dark laggers,
Baltic porters, and so many more. I have personal connections
with these styles of dark laggers, seeing as my brewery
has had most of, not all of these styles before.
They are perfect for people who like to drink toasty
beers year round with a lower ABV and lighter mouthfeel.
Before wide popularity, you mostly found these styles of beer
(38:18):
in places that specialize in laggering or countries that are
warmer near the equator where it's harder to market and
sell traditional stouts and porters. Also, I'm sure you've already
heard from a few people already that yeast was not
included in the original German beer law. The reason was
it had not been discovered and named yet and discovered
that it played a role in fermentation until the eighteen
(38:41):
fifties by Louis Pastor. It wasn't until later that it
was grandfathered in as a given with water hops and barley.
Thank you so much for all you do and the
hours of entertainment you've given me over the years. I
have been a Stuff podcast listener since the start and
was absolutely delighted that you two started this one and
decided to include beverages too, which is my special interest
(39:01):
in the food realm.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Well, of course, yeah, Oh that's fabulous.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
That sounds like a really fun Oh I would like
be in danger in that kind of craft brewery because
I also write I love I love Dark Loggers always
a hit.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Yes, yes, I am very intrigued. Since we did that episode,
I have been on the lookout. Oh yeah, I haven't
found any yet, but there's a lot of ideas within
this email of things that can look for getting cooler
here in Atlanta. So if I want to hit that
(39:37):
like fall dark Logger feel, even though you can drink
them whenever it's time, it's time.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Oh yeah, yeah, and even here at Atlanta, certainly I'm
not sure about other areas, but yeah, Modelo is a
really popular brand and so and usually it just has
the lighter logger, but the darker one, the negro. Modelo
is pretty much everywhere, many places, easy to find. Really
good for making chili, so good for putting in chili.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
That is hilarious. You mentioned that because I'm making chili tonight.
Oh yeah, Fortunately I don't have here, but noted.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Yeah, and yeah, thank you for the note about yeast.
I think that, like, especially if we're kind of writing quickly,
we will write down that that was a historical component,
although yes, of course there were centuries in between most
of these beer styles being developed and the realization that
yeast is what was making them work.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Yes, yeah, and also the ghost of Pilsner, which one
day we'll get to.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
The pale, pale ghost of Pilsner.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Which is in all of these stories. But yes, thank you, yes,
thank you to both of these listeners are writing too. Is.
If you would like to contact us, you can Our
email is hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
We are also on social media. You can find us
on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saverpod. And we do
hope to hear from You Savor is production of iHeartRadio
former podcasts from Myheartradio. You can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way.
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