November 14, 2025 • 41 mins
These golden yellow hand pies are a savory comfort food that’s traveled around the world. Anney and Lauren fill out the history and cultures behind Jamaican patties.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Saber production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Annie and I'm Lorn vogel Bum and today we
have an episode for you about Jamaican patties.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, and the cravings are real. The craving.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Oh, this was a really intense craving episode. I was
writing this yesterday and I was like, I might die.
I might literally die if I do not obtain a
Jamaican patty.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
At some point during this reading, Yeah, me too. I
mean I immediately went up. I was looking up where I
could get so yeah, me too. Just then I got
other cravings. That's also the risk.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Oh yeah, no, I was like, oh no, don't tell
me about your oxtail, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I can't buy everything. Yes. Was there any particular reason
this was on your mind? Mard?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Okay, So I've had Pepa sauce on my list for
a long time, and for some reason I was looking
at that and I just kind of got sidetracked by
the patties and I was like, let's talk about let's
talk about the patties. Yes, and especially so the sauce
(01:19):
caught my mind. That's a brand of like brown sauce
from Jamaica and Jamaica was on my mind because of
course they just got hit really hard by Hurricane Melissa.
You know, some like four hundred thousand people are affected,
and I know times are real tough for like a
lot of people globally right now. But you know, if
(01:39):
you have money or other resources to give, there are
a lot of great ones out there, including one that
the national government in Jamaica set up. It's at support
Jamaica dot gov dot JM. Yeah, or just our perennial
favorite World Central Kitchen.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yes, yes, absolutely, and we're going to talk about this
a little bit more in the history. But they are
a very Jamaican patties are a very comforting, oh yeah,
nostalgic food that I find fascinating. How you can get
them at like, I don't know, a gas station and
(02:19):
heat them up, or you can get them at a
very nice restaurant. They have really transcended people love them.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, yeah, oh right, because they're just an amazing comfort
food they are, and.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
I love them. I do always think of across the
Spider Verse the movie.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Oh I don't remember, I don't remember what part that
was in so.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Early on when the bad guy is trying to steal
money from a bodega in New York. Spider Man comes
in and heats up a Jamaican patty and does his
typical equips a little bit of banter and asked the
(03:07):
store owner, you know how much for the patty? And
he's like, if you get rid of this guy? Uh.
And actually Benjing with Babbish did an episode recreating the
Spider Verse specific Jamaican patty adorable, yes, and I watched
it today and it didn't help my cravings at all.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Hands them yeah, intensified sure, yes. Also doing this research,
I have never heard of aki, which is a fruit
that is very It's like the national fruit of Jamaica.
It's very popular in Jamaica, and I want to do
an episode on it because I've never heard of it
and it has quite a history. It does, it does right.
(03:53):
I had heard of it before because of aqi and saltfish. Yes,
as a dish, but I don't have any personal experience
with it.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
So future episode, yeah, but for past episodes, for this one,
I would say Jamaican jerk meat pies. Yeah. Chilies that
we have done, We've done various chilies, a rape us, turmeric,
human yeah. All spice, ginger. Yeah, there's a lot going
(04:27):
on with this one. There certainly is, yes, so I
guess that brings us direct question. Yeah, Jamaican patties, Yeah,
what are they? Well?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Jamaican patties can come in many forms, but basically you're
looking at a handheld sized savory pie made with a tender,
flaky crust that's often yellow to gold in color from
the warm spices like turmeric and or curry powder that
it contains, and also tender filling made from traditionally or
(05:04):
like kind of classically ground beef seasoned with lots of
savory spicy additions like thyme and scotch bonnet, creating this
just deeply satisfying umami bomb of a hand pie. The
fillings tend to be mildly saucy, you know, like a
like pretty thick, with the ingredients chopped small or shredded.
(05:27):
Alternatives to beef include things like curried or jerk chicken,
or curried potatoes and veg or other stewed veg, but
really anything goes. They're usually a half circle or like
a rounded rectangle in shape. They're baked and served warm,
often available as a street food, and might be eaten
as a snack or a meal especially for lunch by themselves,
(05:49):
or with toppings, or as a sort of sandwich filling
in cocoa bread, maybe with toppings on there too, a
cocoa bread being a sort of soft, slightly sweet wheat
flour bun that's made with a little bit of coconut
milk in the dough, or with side dishes like rice
and peas or French fries or fried plantains.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Oh, they're so good. They're so good.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Jamaican patties are just this perfect little pocket of tender, flaky, savory,
seasoned satisfaction. They're like when the sun crusts the horizon
and hits you, just warm and full.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, they're really lovely. They're just honestly lovely.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Oh, okay, we're going to work on it. We're gonna
work through this. And okay, I do want to say
here at the top that these are a food item
that people have opinions about, including you know, lots of
personal favorite styles and right, lots of nostalgia.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And I have relatively.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Limited experience, but I want you to know that your
favorite is correct, and I would never try to tell
you otherwise. I am in explaining other varieties. I am
meterally reporting what I have.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Read very diplomatic.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yes, yes, it's for it's for personal fear and safety
related reasons. But okay, let's start with the crust. So
what you are traditionally looking at is a form of
savory pastry made with like kind of a lot of fat,
(07:38):
you know, some kind of fat that's going to contribute
to the flakiness of the crust by creating pockets in
the dough as it bakes. And this works best with
a fat that's going to be solid at room temperature
so that it holds space in the dough, but that
will melt in the oven, leaving yes, small pockets as
it soaks into the dough. And then furthermore, kind of
(07:59):
like fries, the internal layers of dough as it cooks.
And depending on what you're going for, you can work
in the fat by lamination, that is, by layering the
fat with the dough base and folding and refolding, which
creates like a puff pastry kind of situation, or perhaps
(08:20):
more simply by cutting in the fat by hand, like
with knives, or giving it like a nice even pulse
in a food processor, as you might for a short
crust pastry or like good flaky biscuits, And I hear you,
I hear you, and again I assure you that your
opinion on this is correct. Whichever one, whichever one that's
(08:42):
up to you. The fat is often suet, which is
the neutral flavored, solid textured beef fat that's taken from
around a cattle's kidneys. But I've also seen recipes call for,
perhaps most traditionally, the fat from kurve goat is it
thing that I read or kind of on the other end,
(09:06):
adapted for less specialty ingredients like butter or vegetable shortening.
If you do go for the curried goat fat, that's
a great short cut in heavy scare quotes in terms
of flavor and color. And the scare quotes are there
because that is a very long shortcut that is making
an entire complex dish. But yeah, you can also add
(09:29):
straight turmeric or some Jamaican curry powder, which is a
blend that includes turmeric and allspice and other like warm
pungent spices like mustard seed, ginger, coriander in cuman to taste,
plus spicy scotch, bonnet, chili peppers, or chili powder rather
if you've never had it. It's a really interesting Caribbean
(09:49):
take on a curry blend and colored like really bright
orange yellow from that turmeric, really tasty, highly recommend. But
then okay, so the fillings, Yeah, the sort of prototypical
ground beef filling is stewed with an array of seasonings
aliums like onion and garlic, as much hot scotch bonnet
as you want, maybe some savory prepared sauces like Worcester
(10:13):
she shear or the aforementioned pick a pepper sauce, which
is right, this brown sauce with like savory, spiced, tart
sweet kind of flavors.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Then yeah, herbs.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
And spices like thyme, bay leaf, allspice, and cayenne pepper,
plus probably some of that Jamaican curry powder to sort
of round everything out. So yeah, you cook all that
down and then I've read usually you mix in bread
crumbs for texture. I didn't see any recipes that did
not call for bread crumbs. But I'm not going to
say I can't tell you what to do. Yeah, because
(10:45):
people can and will do anything, you know, like curried vegetables.
I've seen potato and chick pea a lot, along with
maybe some like peas and carrots kind of situation. Or
write curried chicken, curried goat, jerk chicken, or other proteins.
Maybe some seaf food like fish, shrimp or lobster kalalou,
which is a type of stewed greens. It's also a
type of green. We'll have to do an episode about
(11:07):
it later. Or maybe some stewed spinach I don't know,
like a meat substitute, like a stewed soy crumbles or
mushrooms or jackfruit aki and sealtfish patty. Yeah, I don't know.
Add a slice of cheddar or American cheese in there. Yeah,
do whatever you want, Do whatever you want, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Well, what about the nutrition? Oh that really depends.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
You know. These are meant to be filling, and they
do have heavy punches of fat involved, you know, But right,
eat a vegetable filling is great.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yes, eat a vegetable, perhaps in your Jamaican.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Past Sure, get a variety.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah, that's the recommendation. We do have some numbers for you,
we do, so, okay.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Patties certainly are made by families at home, but they
are also a big business. For example, Jamaican producer Juicy
Patties has at least sixty fast food locations around Jamaica.
They also distribute to supermarkets, convenience stores, and schools, and
have further distribution in ten other countries around the Caribbean
(12:17):
plus in the UK. Plus they've got a brand new
fifteen restaurants in the US as of this year. As
of last year, they were producing some forty eight million
patties per year. And yeah, early during their time, a
couple of their shops were in Brooklyn, they sold twenty
(12:39):
four thousand patties in a week, which is yeah, which
is a number I don't really understand. I'm just like, okay, yeah, cool.
There was clearly a desire, Yes, definitely.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
For like, speaking of numbers, I guess I don't really understand.
A rival brand, Tasty Patty, also out of Jamaica, has
a factory that can do one hundred and fifty thousand
patties a day.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
That's a lot.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Also, yes, and it's not only local to Jamaica, it
is spread out from there. An American brand called Golden Crust,
which was started up in nineteen eighty nine by Jamaican
immigrants whose parents had a long run running bakery. They
now have over one hundred and twenty five restaurants across
(13:31):
the United States and make some forty million patties a
year for distribution in their franchises and also at grocery stores.
The brand helped create National Jamaican Patty Day here in
the US in twenty fifteen. It is the first Saturday
of every August, so we blew past that one this year,
(13:52):
and Toronto holds its own Patty Day on February twenty third.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yes, and there's very specific historical reason for that, yeppers. Yes, yes,
there is.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
And yeah, but we are going to get into that
history as soon as we get back from a quick
break for word from our sponsors, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. So. The Jamaican patty
is frequently linked to the cornish pasty introduced to the
Caribbean by the UK, and also the impinada introduced by Spain.
Both were pockets of dough typically stuffed with meats, vegetables,
and spices. Separate episodes, for sure, and also worth noting
(14:47):
that just because these were influences in the timeline of
Jamaican patties, people have been making these types of easily
transportable dough with filling type things for ages. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, see our meat pies episode for more about that.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yes. Also, this was another episode that was kept having
to remind myself this is a food show. Food is political.
But the history of the colonization of Jamaica is a
long one, and we have talked about it before. I
think Jamaican Jerk, we really talked about it a lot.
But the British colonized Jamaica in the sixteen hundreds and
(15:27):
maintained a presence there until Jamaica secured their independence in
nineteen sixty two. A very brief search on the history
of the Cornish pasti suggests that early Cornish pastis, which
were dough pockets filled with a wide range of proteins, gravies,
fruits and vegetables, all kinds of things. They go as
(15:48):
far back as the thirteenth century in the UK. However,
the sixteen hundreds is really when they grew in popularity
and our modern understanding of them started to take shape.
This matches up with when the UK was colonizing Jamaica,
so it makes sense that Cornish pastis and a desire
(16:09):
for them influenced the history of the Jamaican patty. Meanwhile,
recipes for impanada started appearing in Spanish cookbooks in the
fifteen hundreds before the British defeated them. Spain had colonized
and appressed Jamaica, So that also lines up timing wise,
(16:31):
and both of these things were influenced by older filled
doe pockets That would take forever to expound upon, but
just to say, yeah, it's been around for a long time.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, super basically for a long time. The dough wasn't
really meant to be eaten necessarily, but then right around
that time in history, better does were developed.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Yes, and it was convenient. It's convenient, yeah, to hold something.
Maybe you wouldn't eat the dough because you were a
minor or what have you, a minor as in someone
working in a mine. Oh, yes, good distinction. Yeah, yes,
So it was just it was a good way if
(17:18):
you were busy, if you were working, here's your transport,
need something portable. Yeah, So going back to Jamaica, enslaved
West Africans forcibly relocated to the Caribbean, adapted these cornish
pasties and impanadas with what they had and their own
taste and histories, sometimes at the demands of European families
(17:42):
living there who wanted to recreate European dishes like the
Cornish pasty. Beef first introduced to Jamaica by the Spanish
in the fourteen hundreds was the protein of choice. Over time,
these patties melded with other cultural inflames is in the area,
particularly from Indian and Chinese folks, because while the British
(18:07):
abolished slavery in eighteen thirty four, they still found a
lot of workarounds to minimize cost, like using endingured laborers
from places like China and India since India was still
under the British Empire at the time. A lot of
Indian spices like human turmeric and curry were imported into
(18:27):
Jamaica and incorporated into Jamaican patties. The methods and taste
of the indigenous Chino they also influenced the trajectory of
the patty, particularly with ingredients like scotch bonnet peppers, first
from modern day Venezuela. The Chino had made their way
into Jamaica sometime between six hundred and nine hundred CE,
(18:51):
and some historians believe that they were the ones who
introduced the Scotch bonnet to Jamaica, while others think that
it actually originated there. Future episodes. Oh yeah, Jamaican immigrants
brought these patties with them to the UK in the
nineteen forties and to North America in the sixties and seventies.
(19:13):
This is also when two of the biggest commercial Jamaican
patty companies opened, Juicy Patties and Tasty. Both were owned
by Chinese Jamaican families.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Yeah and yeah. Tasty was in nineteen sixty six, Juicy
was in nineteen seventy eight, and then another big name,
Mothers got started in eighty one.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yes, and in cities with large Jamaican immigrant populations, Jamaican
patties started appearing on more and more menus, and their
popularity continued to grow. Patty Bakery started opening, people could
find frozen Jamaican patties at the grocery store. Globalization, trade
and immigration truly spread the Jamaican patty around the world. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, the eighties, the eighties in particular were super big
for that.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
But yeah, speaking of the eighties, oh gosh, right, Okay,
this brings us to what we mentioned alluded to at
the top. In nineteen eighty five, food inspectors in Toronto,
Canada investigated multiple establishments selling Jamaican beef patties as part
of the Meat Inspection Act implemented by the Department of
(20:26):
Consumer and Corporate Affairs. According to them, this action was
justified because, according to their definition, the beef patty is
being sold didn't meet that definition of a patty and
that Jamaican beef patty sellers needed to stop using that term.
The government pretty much defined beef patty as a hamburger,
ye a beef hamburger. This obviously kickstarted a pretty passionate
(20:51):
conversation about what Jamaican beef patties were in Canada, and
it's a pretty complicated issue, you but condensed. At the time,
there were worries amongst white Canadians that Jamaican cuisine was
going to usurp Canadian cuisine, or just that it was
(21:12):
gaining too much mainstream popularity and too small of a
time frame because due to some racist laws, immigration from
the Caribbean was prohibited until nineteen sixty seven. And this
was also this was a viewpoint largely perpetuated by white
government officials, and it was an issue of language. Basically,
(21:34):
the argument was that the legal definition of a patty
did not include a Jamaican patty. This was pretty telling
and misleading in a lot of ways, because by that time,
plenty of Caribbean immigrants had made homes in Canada and
a lot of Canadians were familiar with Jamaican beef patties.
Like it wasn't an unknown thing.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Sure it was.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
So these officials showed up at Canadian restaurants that were
selling Jamaican beef patties demanding that they change all of
their signage, the menus, the name of the restaurant, things
like that, things that would cost a lot of money
and even put people out of business, but the fine
(22:16):
of not doing so, of not changing all of these
things could be just as much or even more. In response,
a lot of the local owners banded together to fight
this initiative, and it got so much media coverage, and
all of that only increased awareness of the Jamaican beef patty.
(22:39):
It was a big deal. The Jamaican consulate got involved,
They held a patty summit, and they negotiated with officials,
and in February nineteen eighty five, officials decided that purveyors
could keep using the word patty as long as they
included Jamaican in front of it, and all of this
(23:04):
led to a heated debate often called the Patty Wars.
It led to also the production of a CBC documentary
called Patty Versus Patty. February twenty third, as mentioned, is
known as Patty Day in Toronto to commemorate this whole thing.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yeah, yeah, I there. So there was a less public
and less contentious iteration of this that happened in the US.
The Jamaican American producer Tower Isles had to wind up
calling their product Jamaican style patties because the USDA thought
(23:46):
that just patties was right potentially confusing and like the
devil doesn't need any advocates, right, but like, okay, like
I do enjoy the fact that we have consumer protection
agencies that are looking to prevent confusion in the consumer public.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
But yeah, when you take into account the history of
colonization that led to this patty and to its name,
this is particularly frustrating. Yeah, and a form of historical erasure.
Oh yeah, we didn't even go into why it's called
(24:29):
what it's.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Called, But yeah, Meanwhile, recent world events have been creating
supply chain issues that affect the food industry as a whole,
including yes, Jamaican patties. The Indian news organization CODA did
this story back in twenty twenty three that I ran
(24:51):
across that's bigger than patties, But I thought it was interesting.
It was about how global shortages of things like animal
feed and mineral crop fertilizers due to Russia's invasion of
Ukraine were affecting various producers, like producers of Jamaican beef. Yeah,
(25:16):
you know, it was right. It was a specific example
of like the butterfly effect, of these kind of impacts
to global trade that are going on.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
But yeah, I don't know. I thought it was cool.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I wanted to mention it for some reason. Global trade
is on my mind a lot lately.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Just this year, the restaurant end of the aforementioned Juicy
Patty's business became the first Jamaican fast food franchise to
expand into the United States, with locations around South Florida
and New York City. I said earlier that they currently
have fifteen locations here. They've apparently signed fifty seven franchise
agreements already, with plans to open all of them by
(25:54):
the end of twenty twenty seven, and most of their
franchises here are Jamaican Americans.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah, there are a lot of articles you can read
about how you can find a Jamaican patty at like
a pizzeria. You can find one. You can find them everywhere,
and they're kind of a ubiquitous, very popular food. And
as with many topics we discussed in recent years, these
(26:21):
patties have been subject to a lot of experimentation, including
at expensive restaurants, which has led to arguments about what
exactly they are. Of course, after the pandemic, there were
several articles about the importance of these patties for those
from the Caribbean, for immigrants selling them in big cities
(26:44):
like New York, and just how nostalgic they are in general.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Including in Toronto this year twenty twenty five, ahead of
the city's Caribbean Carnival festival, The Toronto Star, a newspaper,
ran this week long Patty Bracket to crown the city's
best patty sixteen stride for the title, and a bakery
called Randy's that's been operating there in Little Jamaica since
(27:11):
nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
One out.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Randy's is a restaurant with a really good, like pandemic
comeback story. They closed down for a couple years starting
in twenty twenty two, but reopened with this collective of
new owners in twenty twenty four. And I wanted to
quote this because I thought it was sweet. So shop
manager Val Rose told The Star. So many people walk
(27:34):
into Randy's, and they'll talk about going to Randy's at
high school. Those little things add up to the culture
and community feeling because of one little patty shop energizing
a community, giving it hope and enhancing the other businesses
around it. People get a patty and everything else on
Ellington West. It transcends the food. That's so nice.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I just I've loved reading people's memories, yeah,
of eating these things growing up and it being such
an important nostalgic food memory for them.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, like Grandma's recipes and right and finding especially right
if you if you have moved away, like finding that
and having it be this wonderful little part of home
that you can take with you.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Also, in the wake of Hurricane Melissa, I've read posts
from some local patty spots in Jamaica that opened back
up like really quickly, like as soon as possible in
order to help serve the community.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
So yeah, they're filling and they're lovely nice.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Oh the crazing it's going to be okay, We're going
to work this out.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Oh yeah, I've already got a plan. Oh I cannot
stand so that I cannot have one. But yeah, we
would love to hear from listeners. If you have recipes,
if you have memories, if you have favorites.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Oh yeah, if you have some of those capital O
opinions I was talking about earlier.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, yes, please let us know. But this is what
we have to say about Jamaican patties for now. It is.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
We do already have some listener mill for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break for
a word from our sponsors, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're back with
listeners love Spider Verse. I couldn't really communicate the whole
building up of the theme song. Oh yeah, yeah, I
(30:00):
think that was good enough. Yeah, it was close. Earle
wrote your latest episode on dungeness crab compelled me to
send in this memory. My first time to the Pacific
Northwest was a trip with my mom when I was eighteen.
We made Victoria, British Columbia, one of our stops, where
(30:22):
she booked a dungeness crab dinner for the two of us. Unfortunately,
I had gotten a really nasty stomach bug earlier in
the trip, which then hit my mom by the time
we got to Victoria, OH. I offered to skip the
dinner and look after her at the hotel, but she
insisted the reservation not go to waste since it was prepaid.
(30:47):
So cut to me arriving at the restaurant, sitting at
a table by myself with just a magazine to keep
me company, ordering some wine which I could do in
Canada at a eighteen but not back home in the US,
and eating two whole dungeness crabs all by myself, all
(31:09):
while getting puzzled looks from other diners who were probably
wondering what the deal was with this extravagant solo teenager.
When I got back to the hotel, my poor sick
mother weakly asked me how the crab was and I
couldn't contain myself from raving about the experience. I keep
(31:31):
telling myself I need to take her out for a
fancy dungeness crab dinner sometime to make it up to her.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Oh that would be nice.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
I think that would be a nice tho.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah, sure, yeah, I think that that's I think that
would absolutely make up for it.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Yeah, but I also get you know, you prepaid.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Yeah, and she wanted she wanted someone to have the experience, right,
especially if you prepaid. I mean, come on, that's silly,
that's wasteful exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
And it's dungeon ass crab is on the line, And
I kind of love what other people must have been
thinking of.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Oh right, yeah, Like, well, like what is this child doing.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
To two dungeoness crab dinners and some wine? Who is this?
I love it?
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Like should I recognize him? Like is this like a
famous person? Like is this like some kind of like
Wall Street mogal, Like what's happening?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
I bet people tell this story and are still questioning
it years later. But I'm glad somebody got to enjoy it,
and I'm glad that it was. It was a nice
memory and that hopefully you can redo it. You can
do it again.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Oh yes, yes, definitely, I hope that for us all
Aic wrote, I remember up an w restaurant when growing up.
I've always liked the root beer, and I'm also a
fan of Doctor Pepper as well. So it has been
a while since I've had one, but I remember it
being slightly more frothy and not quite as strong as
some others. The restaurant used to be good. Always found
(33:15):
the food to be better than most quick service type places.
I have not been in years, so I can't really
speak to how they are now. Mooncakes sound quite enjoyable.
I always love when you bring up things from other
parts of the world. There's so much diversity, and now
I'm really intrigued. Not really much to say other than
I need to find a way to tame the cravings.
I love provolone. I find it to be very versatile,
(33:37):
straight up impasta sandwiches, pizza and so on. Shout out
to Stimoli's here in the Strip district that carries this
wonderful pecante version. I can't remember offhand if it's a
six or nine month aged but I love buying a
piece for cutting up and snacking on. I mean, we
should always have a snacking cheese and keep it handy, right.
I also like it on hot sandwiches. I think the
(33:58):
pecante adds a punch on a hot sandwich, and I
prefer the dulce on a cold sandwich. Butternut squash is
another great one. I love using it for soup and
always experiment with adding things to it. I love to
roast it till it has some char, along with some
onions and garlic. Throw in some pears broth and blend
that sucker up. If you like steak salad with hazelnuts,
add some roasted butternut to that as well. I think
(34:21):
it also blends well when mixed into hummus, and even
used it as a substitute and a sweet potato pie once.
Halloween marketing will never end, but I really want to
know who considers those small bars fun size. This is
the time of year when you can slap orange, black
or purple onto things and call it Halloween such and
such and charge a little more for it. I wouldn't
(34:42):
mind spooky season running year round. But oh well, it's
been a long time since I've had dungeness crab. I
can't fully remember, but now I have cravings we need
to find a way to normalize it for lunch though, Oh.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
My goodness, yea having Dungeoness Crab for lunch had me
kind of clutched. You know, you're right, we have a
fancy lunch.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Right, more fancy lunches. No reason not to.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Yeah, go for it, go for it. Okay. Yes, I
have loved hearing from all of you listeners about Halloween marketing.
Please keep writing it cool. Yeah, even though Halloween is over,
you know, we love it all year round, and I
have really really enjoyed hearing about how it's gone, because
(35:38):
I don't know, I got a lot of messages from
people who were lamenting, kind of lamenting. Where have all
the like trigger treaters gone? Yeah, there used to be
a lot more trigger treaters and just why that is
and all of these other things. But I did. I
(35:59):
have loved here from from you all about the Halloween
marketing you've run into and the experiences you had this Halloween.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
So thank you, yes, oh yes, oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
So, so I actually have a couple of recent personal
experiences to share that are related to a couple of
these things. Uh. One of them is that I found
myself in Pittsburgh last week and I was I didn't
find myself. It wasn't a mystery as to how. I mean,
I've gone on an airplane, but uh, but yeah, I
was there for a wedding. It was a Chinese American
(36:37):
family was one of the humans who was getting married,
and the best man, during his speech, told a story
about how on a dare he once ate an entire
mooncake by himself, oh the groom.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
The groom had.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Dared him to eat an entire one, and that despite
it being a lot, it was still an enjoyable experience.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
That's good.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yeah, yeah, And speaking of I need to report to
all of you that there was a cookie table at
the wedding and it was glorious. There were Chinese style
takeout boxes as little to go containers for everything, which
was very on theme and adorable. And yeah, there were
like ten to a dozen different types of cookies. There were,
(37:22):
like and from different bakeries and like wrapped up in
different ways. I also did see a terrible towel in person.
There weren't any cookies themed about that, but that's that's okay.
That's I can't expect everything from everywhere, and I did
go to Primani Brothers and it was glorious. I had
a giant burger with fries on the sandwich.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
It was so good. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
I had a really good corn beef at a deli
somewhere else. It was, it was all together. I don't
I don't think I specifically remember any pro bloone experiences,
but so glad, so glad that it exists.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Yeah. Yeah, Lauren was telling me before we started recording,
there were a lot of good sandwich experiences, so many
good sandwiches, and I'm jealous, you.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Know, yeah, I mean you know it's we can Atlanta
is a decent sandwich town.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Yeah, yeah, it is. It is craving sandwiches for I
feel like the thing, the thing we don't talk about
enough on when we say like this show gives us cravings,
is that I get cravings for not even things that
we were talking about in the episode. The cravings just
(38:45):
become so huge because I'm like, well, Provo owned his
own sandwiches, and now I want to send.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
And now I want yeah, and so I have.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
I have been craving sandwiches for a while.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
I believe that you can make this. You can make
this happen for yourself.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
I definitely can, but I'm so behind. I'm trying to
make mapo tofu right now. I have all the ingredients.
The ingredient is, I have all the ingredients. I think
it might be tricky, but that's how behind I am
eating my cravings.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Well all right then, you know that's that's do your best.
You're doing great, You're doing fine, You're gonna work it out.
Oh yeah, may may, May the sandwich has come to.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
You, May the sandwiches be with But I was jealous
of your sandwich experiences. But also I am glad to
hear that you saw a cookie table with the takeout
boxes in full force.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Oh yeah, yeah, and I will say that that people
like before the ceremony, people were getting boxes of the cookies.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
So yeah, the important things.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Yeah, oh no, absolutely, like people are like, look, we
are here for a joyous union of two beautiful people,
but both cookies.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Yeah yeah, I'm good, reasonable, definitely definitely okay. Well, thank
you so much to both of these listeners for writing in.
If you would like to write to us, you can.
Our email is Hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
We're also on social media. Sometimes we're on a blue
Sky and Instagram at saver pod and we do hope
to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts my heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
(40:51):
that lots more good things are coming your way
Hello, and welcome to Saber production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Annie and I'm Lorn vogel Bum and today we
have an episode for you about Jamaican patties.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, and the cravings are real. The craving.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Oh, this was a really intense craving episode. I was
writing this yesterday and I was like, I might die.
I might literally die if I do not obtain a
Jamaican patty.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
At some point during this reading, Yeah, me too. I
mean I immediately went up. I was looking up where I
could get so yeah, me too. Just then I got
other cravings. That's also the risk.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Oh yeah, no, I was like, oh no, don't tell
me about your oxtail, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I can't buy everything. Yes. Was there any particular reason
this was on your mind? Mard?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Okay, So I've had Pepa sauce on my list for
a long time, and for some reason I was looking
at that and I just kind of got sidetracked by
the patties and I was like, let's talk about let's
talk about the patties. Yes, and especially so the sauce
(01:19):
caught my mind. That's a brand of like brown sauce
from Jamaica and Jamaica was on my mind because of
course they just got hit really hard by Hurricane Melissa.
You know, some like four hundred thousand people are affected,
and I know times are real tough for like a
lot of people globally right now. But you know, if
(01:39):
you have money or other resources to give, there are
a lot of great ones out there, including one that
the national government in Jamaica set up. It's at support
Jamaica dot gov dot JM. Yeah, or just our perennial
favorite World Central Kitchen.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yes, yes, absolutely, and we're going to talk about this
a little bit more in the history. But they are
a very Jamaican patties are a very comforting, oh yeah,
nostalgic food that I find fascinating. How you can get
them at like, I don't know, a gas station and
(02:19):
heat them up, or you can get them at a
very nice restaurant. They have really transcended people love them.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, yeah, oh right, because they're just an amazing comfort
food they are, and.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
I love them. I do always think of across the
Spider Verse the movie.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Oh I don't remember, I don't remember what part that
was in so.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Early on when the bad guy is trying to steal
money from a bodega in New York. Spider Man comes
in and heats up a Jamaican patty and does his
typical equips a little bit of banter and asked the
(03:07):
store owner, you know how much for the patty? And
he's like, if you get rid of this guy? Uh.
And actually Benjing with Babbish did an episode recreating the
Spider Verse specific Jamaican patty adorable, yes, and I watched
it today and it didn't help my cravings at all.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Hands them yeah, intensified sure, yes. Also doing this research,
I have never heard of aki, which is a fruit
that is very It's like the national fruit of Jamaica.
It's very popular in Jamaica, and I want to do
an episode on it because I've never heard of it
and it has quite a history. It does, it does right.
(03:53):
I had heard of it before because of aqi and saltfish. Yes,
as a dish, but I don't have any personal experience
with it.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
So future episode, yeah, but for past episodes, for this one,
I would say Jamaican jerk meat pies. Yeah. Chilies that
we have done, We've done various chilies, a rape us, turmeric,
human yeah. All spice, ginger. Yeah, there's a lot going
(04:27):
on with this one. There certainly is, yes, so I
guess that brings us direct question. Yeah, Jamaican patties, Yeah,
what are they? Well?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Jamaican patties can come in many forms, but basically you're
looking at a handheld sized savory pie made with a tender,
flaky crust that's often yellow to gold in color from
the warm spices like turmeric and or curry powder that
it contains, and also tender filling made from traditionally or
(05:04):
like kind of classically ground beef seasoned with lots of
savory spicy additions like thyme and scotch bonnet, creating this
just deeply satisfying umami bomb of a hand pie. The
fillings tend to be mildly saucy, you know, like a
like pretty thick, with the ingredients chopped small or shredded.
(05:27):
Alternatives to beef include things like curried or jerk chicken,
or curried potatoes and veg or other stewed veg, but
really anything goes. They're usually a half circle or like
a rounded rectangle in shape. They're baked and served warm,
often available as a street food, and might be eaten
as a snack or a meal especially for lunch by themselves,
(05:49):
or with toppings, or as a sort of sandwich filling
in cocoa bread, maybe with toppings on there too, a
cocoa bread being a sort of soft, slightly sweet wheat
flour bun that's made with a little bit of coconut
milk in the dough, or with side dishes like rice
and peas or French fries or fried plantains.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Oh, they're so good. They're so good.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Jamaican patties are just this perfect little pocket of tender, flaky, savory,
seasoned satisfaction. They're like when the sun crusts the horizon
and hits you, just warm and full.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, they're really lovely. They're just honestly lovely.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Oh, okay, we're going to work on it. We're gonna
work through this. And okay, I do want to say
here at the top that these are a food item
that people have opinions about, including you know, lots of
personal favorite styles and right, lots of nostalgia.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And I have relatively.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Limited experience, but I want you to know that your
favorite is correct, and I would never try to tell
you otherwise. I am in explaining other varieties. I am
meterally reporting what I have.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Read very diplomatic.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yes, yes, it's for it's for personal fear and safety
related reasons. But okay, let's start with the crust. So
what you are traditionally looking at is a form of
savory pastry made with like kind of a lot of fat,
(07:38):
you know, some kind of fat that's going to contribute
to the flakiness of the crust by creating pockets in
the dough as it bakes. And this works best with
a fat that's going to be solid at room temperature
so that it holds space in the dough, but that
will melt in the oven, leaving yes, small pockets as
it soaks into the dough. And then furthermore, kind of
(07:59):
like fries, the internal layers of dough as it cooks.
And depending on what you're going for, you can work
in the fat by lamination, that is, by layering the
fat with the dough base and folding and refolding, which
creates like a puff pastry kind of situation, or perhaps
(08:20):
more simply by cutting in the fat by hand, like
with knives, or giving it like a nice even pulse
in a food processor, as you might for a short
crust pastry or like good flaky biscuits, And I hear you,
I hear you, and again I assure you that your
opinion on this is correct. Whichever one, whichever one that's
(08:42):
up to you. The fat is often suet, which is
the neutral flavored, solid textured beef fat that's taken from
around a cattle's kidneys. But I've also seen recipes call for,
perhaps most traditionally, the fat from kurve goat is it
thing that I read or kind of on the other end,
(09:06):
adapted for less specialty ingredients like butter or vegetable shortening.
If you do go for the curried goat fat, that's
a great short cut in heavy scare quotes in terms
of flavor and color. And the scare quotes are there
because that is a very long shortcut that is making
an entire complex dish. But yeah, you can also add
(09:29):
straight turmeric or some Jamaican curry powder, which is a
blend that includes turmeric and allspice and other like warm
pungent spices like mustard seed, ginger, coriander in cuman to taste,
plus spicy scotch, bonnet, chili peppers, or chili powder rather
if you've never had it. It's a really interesting Caribbean
(09:49):
take on a curry blend and colored like really bright
orange yellow from that turmeric, really tasty, highly recommend. But
then okay, so the fillings, Yeah, the sort of prototypical
ground beef filling is stewed with an array of seasonings
aliums like onion and garlic, as much hot scotch bonnet
as you want, maybe some savory prepared sauces like Worcester
(10:13):
she shear or the aforementioned pick a pepper sauce, which
is right, this brown sauce with like savory, spiced, tart
sweet kind of flavors.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Then yeah, herbs.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
And spices like thyme, bay leaf, allspice, and cayenne pepper,
plus probably some of that Jamaican curry powder to sort
of round everything out. So yeah, you cook all that
down and then I've read usually you mix in bread
crumbs for texture. I didn't see any recipes that did
not call for bread crumbs. But I'm not going to
say I can't tell you what to do. Yeah, because
(10:45):
people can and will do anything, you know, like curried vegetables.
I've seen potato and chick pea a lot, along with
maybe some like peas and carrots kind of situation. Or
write curried chicken, curried goat, jerk chicken, or other proteins.
Maybe some seaf food like fish, shrimp or lobster kalalou,
which is a type of stewed greens. It's also a
type of green. We'll have to do an episode about
(11:07):
it later. Or maybe some stewed spinach I don't know,
like a meat substitute, like a stewed soy crumbles or
mushrooms or jackfruit aki and sealtfish patty. Yeah, I don't know.
Add a slice of cheddar or American cheese in there. Yeah,
do whatever you want, Do whatever you want, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Well, what about the nutrition? Oh that really depends.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
You know. These are meant to be filling, and they
do have heavy punches of fat involved, you know, But right,
eat a vegetable filling is great.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yes, eat a vegetable, perhaps in your Jamaican.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Past Sure, get a variety.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah, that's the recommendation. We do have some numbers for you,
we do, so, okay.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Patties certainly are made by families at home, but they
are also a big business. For example, Jamaican producer Juicy
Patties has at least sixty fast food locations around Jamaica.
They also distribute to supermarkets, convenience stores, and schools, and
have further distribution in ten other countries around the Caribbean
(12:17):
plus in the UK. Plus they've got a brand new
fifteen restaurants in the US as of this year. As
of last year, they were producing some forty eight million
patties per year. And yeah, early during their time, a
couple of their shops were in Brooklyn, they sold twenty
(12:39):
four thousand patties in a week, which is yeah, which
is a number I don't really understand. I'm just like, okay, yeah, cool.
There was clearly a desire, Yes, definitely.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
For like, speaking of numbers, I guess I don't really understand.
A rival brand, Tasty Patty, also out of Jamaica, has
a factory that can do one hundred and fifty thousand
patties a day.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
That's a lot.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Also, yes, and it's not only local to Jamaica, it
is spread out from there. An American brand called Golden Crust,
which was started up in nineteen eighty nine by Jamaican
immigrants whose parents had a long run running bakery. They
now have over one hundred and twenty five restaurants across
(13:31):
the United States and make some forty million patties a
year for distribution in their franchises and also at grocery stores.
The brand helped create National Jamaican Patty Day here in
the US in twenty fifteen. It is the first Saturday
of every August, so we blew past that one this year,
(13:52):
and Toronto holds its own Patty Day on February twenty third.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yes, and there's very specific historical reason for that, yeppers. Yes, yes,
there is.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
And yeah, but we are going to get into that
history as soon as we get back from a quick
break for word from our sponsors, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. So. The Jamaican patty
is frequently linked to the cornish pasty introduced to the
Caribbean by the UK, and also the impinada introduced by Spain.
Both were pockets of dough typically stuffed with meats, vegetables,
and spices. Separate episodes, for sure, and also worth noting
(14:47):
that just because these were influences in the timeline of
Jamaican patties, people have been making these types of easily
transportable dough with filling type things for ages. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, see our meat pies episode for more about that.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yes. Also, this was another episode that was kept having
to remind myself this is a food show. Food is political.
But the history of the colonization of Jamaica is a
long one, and we have talked about it before. I
think Jamaican Jerk, we really talked about it a lot.
But the British colonized Jamaica in the sixteen hundreds and
(15:27):
maintained a presence there until Jamaica secured their independence in
nineteen sixty two. A very brief search on the history
of the Cornish pasti suggests that early Cornish pastis, which
were dough pockets filled with a wide range of proteins, gravies,
fruits and vegetables, all kinds of things. They go as
(15:48):
far back as the thirteenth century in the UK. However,
the sixteen hundreds is really when they grew in popularity
and our modern understanding of them started to take shape.
This matches up with when the UK was colonizing Jamaica,
so it makes sense that Cornish pastis and a desire
(16:09):
for them influenced the history of the Jamaican patty. Meanwhile,
recipes for impanada started appearing in Spanish cookbooks in the
fifteen hundreds before the British defeated them. Spain had colonized
and appressed Jamaica, So that also lines up timing wise,
(16:31):
and both of these things were influenced by older filled
doe pockets That would take forever to expound upon, but
just to say, yeah, it's been around for a long time.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, super basically for a long time. The dough wasn't
really meant to be eaten necessarily, but then right around
that time in history, better does were developed.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Yes, and it was convenient. It's convenient, yeah, to hold something.
Maybe you wouldn't eat the dough because you were a
minor or what have you, a minor as in someone
working in a mine. Oh, yes, good distinction. Yeah, yes,
So it was just it was a good way if
(17:18):
you were busy, if you were working, here's your transport,
need something portable. Yeah, So going back to Jamaica, enslaved
West Africans forcibly relocated to the Caribbean, adapted these cornish
pasties and impanadas with what they had and their own
taste and histories, sometimes at the demands of European families
(17:42):
living there who wanted to recreate European dishes like the
Cornish pasty. Beef first introduced to Jamaica by the Spanish
in the fourteen hundreds was the protein of choice. Over time,
these patties melded with other cultural inflames is in the area,
particularly from Indian and Chinese folks, because while the British
(18:07):
abolished slavery in eighteen thirty four, they still found a
lot of workarounds to minimize cost, like using endingured laborers
from places like China and India since India was still
under the British Empire at the time. A lot of
Indian spices like human turmeric and curry were imported into
(18:27):
Jamaica and incorporated into Jamaican patties. The methods and taste
of the indigenous Chino they also influenced the trajectory of
the patty, particularly with ingredients like scotch bonnet peppers, first
from modern day Venezuela. The Chino had made their way
into Jamaica sometime between six hundred and nine hundred CE,
(18:51):
and some historians believe that they were the ones who
introduced the Scotch bonnet to Jamaica, while others think that
it actually originated there. Future episodes. Oh yeah, Jamaican immigrants
brought these patties with them to the UK in the
nineteen forties and to North America in the sixties and seventies.
(19:13):
This is also when two of the biggest commercial Jamaican
patty companies opened, Juicy Patties and Tasty. Both were owned
by Chinese Jamaican families.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Yeah and yeah. Tasty was in nineteen sixty six, Juicy
was in nineteen seventy eight, and then another big name,
Mothers got started in eighty one.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yes, and in cities with large Jamaican immigrant populations, Jamaican
patties started appearing on more and more menus, and their
popularity continued to grow. Patty Bakery started opening, people could
find frozen Jamaican patties at the grocery store. Globalization, trade
and immigration truly spread the Jamaican patty around the world. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, the eighties, the eighties in particular were super big
for that.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
But yeah, speaking of the eighties, oh gosh, right, Okay,
this brings us to what we mentioned alluded to at
the top. In nineteen eighty five, food inspectors in Toronto,
Canada investigated multiple establishments selling Jamaican beef patties as part
of the Meat Inspection Act implemented by the Department of
(20:26):
Consumer and Corporate Affairs. According to them, this action was
justified because, according to their definition, the beef patty is
being sold didn't meet that definition of a patty and
that Jamaican beef patty sellers needed to stop using that term.
The government pretty much defined beef patty as a hamburger,
ye a beef hamburger. This obviously kickstarted a pretty passionate
(20:51):
conversation about what Jamaican beef patties were in Canada, and
it's a pretty complicated issue, you but condensed. At the time,
there were worries amongst white Canadians that Jamaican cuisine was
going to usurp Canadian cuisine, or just that it was
(21:12):
gaining too much mainstream popularity and too small of a
time frame because due to some racist laws, immigration from
the Caribbean was prohibited until nineteen sixty seven. And this
was also this was a viewpoint largely perpetuated by white
government officials, and it was an issue of language. Basically,
(21:34):
the argument was that the legal definition of a patty
did not include a Jamaican patty. This was pretty telling
and misleading in a lot of ways, because by that time,
plenty of Caribbean immigrants had made homes in Canada and
a lot of Canadians were familiar with Jamaican beef patties.
Like it wasn't an unknown thing.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Sure it was.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
So these officials showed up at Canadian restaurants that were
selling Jamaican beef patties demanding that they change all of
their signage, the menus, the name of the restaurant, things
like that, things that would cost a lot of money
and even put people out of business, but the fine
(22:16):
of not doing so, of not changing all of these
things could be just as much or even more. In response,
a lot of the local owners banded together to fight
this initiative, and it got so much media coverage, and
all of that only increased awareness of the Jamaican beef patty.
(22:39):
It was a big deal. The Jamaican consulate got involved,
They held a patty summit, and they negotiated with officials,
and in February nineteen eighty five, officials decided that purveyors
could keep using the word patty as long as they
included Jamaican in front of it, and all of this
(23:04):
led to a heated debate often called the Patty Wars.
It led to also the production of a CBC documentary
called Patty Versus Patty. February twenty third, as mentioned, is
known as Patty Day in Toronto to commemorate this whole thing.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yeah, yeah, I there. So there was a less public
and less contentious iteration of this that happened in the US.
The Jamaican American producer Tower Isles had to wind up
calling their product Jamaican style patties because the USDA thought
(23:46):
that just patties was right potentially confusing and like the
devil doesn't need any advocates, right, but like, okay, like
I do enjoy the fact that we have consumer protection
agencies that are looking to prevent confusion in the consumer public.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
But yeah, when you take into account the history of
colonization that led to this patty and to its name,
this is particularly frustrating. Yeah, and a form of historical erasure.
Oh yeah, we didn't even go into why it's called
(24:29):
what it's.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Called, But yeah, Meanwhile, recent world events have been creating
supply chain issues that affect the food industry as a whole,
including yes, Jamaican patties. The Indian news organization CODA did
this story back in twenty twenty three that I ran
(24:51):
across that's bigger than patties, But I thought it was interesting.
It was about how global shortages of things like animal
feed and mineral crop fertilizers due to Russia's invasion of
Ukraine were affecting various producers, like producers of Jamaican beef. Yeah,
(25:16):
you know, it was right. It was a specific example
of like the butterfly effect, of these kind of impacts
to global trade that are going on.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
But yeah, I don't know. I thought it was cool.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I wanted to mention it for some reason. Global trade
is on my mind a lot lately.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Just this year, the restaurant end of the aforementioned Juicy
Patty's business became the first Jamaican fast food franchise to
expand into the United States, with locations around South Florida
and New York City. I said earlier that they currently
have fifteen locations here. They've apparently signed fifty seven franchise
agreements already, with plans to open all of them by
(25:54):
the end of twenty twenty seven, and most of their
franchises here are Jamaican Americans.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah, there are a lot of articles you can read
about how you can find a Jamaican patty at like
a pizzeria. You can find one. You can find them everywhere,
and they're kind of a ubiquitous, very popular food. And
as with many topics we discussed in recent years, these
(26:21):
patties have been subject to a lot of experimentation, including
at expensive restaurants, which has led to arguments about what
exactly they are. Of course, after the pandemic, there were
several articles about the importance of these patties for those
from the Caribbean, for immigrants selling them in big cities
(26:44):
like New York, and just how nostalgic they are in general.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Including in Toronto this year twenty twenty five, ahead of
the city's Caribbean Carnival festival, The Toronto Star, a newspaper,
ran this week long Patty Bracket to crown the city's
best patty sixteen stride for the title, and a bakery
called Randy's that's been operating there in Little Jamaica since
(27:11):
nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
One out.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Randy's is a restaurant with a really good, like pandemic
comeback story. They closed down for a couple years starting
in twenty twenty two, but reopened with this collective of
new owners in twenty twenty four. And I wanted to
quote this because I thought it was sweet. So shop
manager Val Rose told The Star. So many people walk
(27:34):
into Randy's, and they'll talk about going to Randy's at
high school. Those little things add up to the culture
and community feeling because of one little patty shop energizing
a community, giving it hope and enhancing the other businesses
around it. People get a patty and everything else on
Ellington West. It transcends the food. That's so nice.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I just I've loved reading people's memories, yeah,
of eating these things growing up and it being such
an important nostalgic food memory for them.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, like Grandma's recipes and right and finding especially right
if you if you have moved away, like finding that
and having it be this wonderful little part of home
that you can take with you.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Also, in the wake of Hurricane Melissa, I've read posts
from some local patty spots in Jamaica that opened back
up like really quickly, like as soon as possible in
order to help serve the community.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
So yeah, they're filling and they're lovely nice.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Oh the crazing it's going to be okay, We're going
to work this out.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Oh yeah, I've already got a plan. Oh I cannot
stand so that I cannot have one. But yeah, we
would love to hear from listeners. If you have recipes,
if you have memories, if you have favorites.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Oh yeah, if you have some of those capital O
opinions I was talking about earlier.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, yes, please let us know. But this is what
we have to say about Jamaican patties for now. It is.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
We do already have some listener mill for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break for
a word from our sponsors, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're back with
listeners love Spider Verse. I couldn't really communicate the whole
building up of the theme song. Oh yeah, yeah, I
(30:00):
think that was good enough. Yeah, it was close. Earle
wrote your latest episode on dungeness crab compelled me to
send in this memory. My first time to the Pacific
Northwest was a trip with my mom when I was eighteen.
We made Victoria, British Columbia, one of our stops, where
(30:22):
she booked a dungeness crab dinner for the two of us. Unfortunately,
I had gotten a really nasty stomach bug earlier in
the trip, which then hit my mom by the time
we got to Victoria, OH. I offered to skip the
dinner and look after her at the hotel, but she
insisted the reservation not go to waste since it was prepaid.
(30:47):
So cut to me arriving at the restaurant, sitting at
a table by myself with just a magazine to keep
me company, ordering some wine which I could do in
Canada at a eighteen but not back home in the US,
and eating two whole dungeness crabs all by myself, all
(31:09):
while getting puzzled looks from other diners who were probably
wondering what the deal was with this extravagant solo teenager.
When I got back to the hotel, my poor sick
mother weakly asked me how the crab was and I
couldn't contain myself from raving about the experience. I keep
(31:31):
telling myself I need to take her out for a
fancy dungeness crab dinner sometime to make it up to her.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Oh that would be nice.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
I think that would be a nice tho.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah, sure, yeah, I think that that's I think that
would absolutely make up for it.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Yeah, but I also get you know, you prepaid.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Yeah, and she wanted she wanted someone to have the experience, right,
especially if you prepaid. I mean, come on, that's silly,
that's wasteful exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
And it's dungeon ass crab is on the line, And
I kind of love what other people must have been
thinking of.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Oh right, yeah, Like, well, like what is this child doing.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
To two dungeoness crab dinners and some wine? Who is this?
I love it?
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Like should I recognize him? Like is this like a
famous person? Like is this like some kind of like
Wall Street mogal, Like what's happening?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
I bet people tell this story and are still questioning
it years later. But I'm glad somebody got to enjoy it,
and I'm glad that it was. It was a nice
memory and that hopefully you can redo it. You can
do it again.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Oh yes, yes, definitely, I hope that for us all
Aic wrote, I remember up an w restaurant when growing up.
I've always liked the root beer, and I'm also a
fan of Doctor Pepper as well. So it has been
a while since I've had one, but I remember it
being slightly more frothy and not quite as strong as
some others. The restaurant used to be good. Always found
(33:15):
the food to be better than most quick service type places.
I have not been in years, so I can't really
speak to how they are now. Mooncakes sound quite enjoyable.
I always love when you bring up things from other
parts of the world. There's so much diversity, and now
I'm really intrigued. Not really much to say other than
I need to find a way to tame the cravings.
I love provolone. I find it to be very versatile,
(33:37):
straight up impasta sandwiches, pizza and so on. Shout out
to Stimoli's here in the Strip district that carries this
wonderful pecante version. I can't remember offhand if it's a
six or nine month aged but I love buying a
piece for cutting up and snacking on. I mean, we
should always have a snacking cheese and keep it handy, right.
I also like it on hot sandwiches. I think the
(33:58):
pecante adds a punch on a hot sandwich, and I
prefer the dulce on a cold sandwich. Butternut squash is
another great one. I love using it for soup and
always experiment with adding things to it. I love to
roast it till it has some char, along with some
onions and garlic. Throw in some pears broth and blend
that sucker up. If you like steak salad with hazelnuts,
add some roasted butternut to that as well. I think
(34:21):
it also blends well when mixed into hummus, and even
used it as a substitute and a sweet potato pie once.
Halloween marketing will never end, but I really want to
know who considers those small bars fun size. This is
the time of year when you can slap orange, black
or purple onto things and call it Halloween such and
such and charge a little more for it. I wouldn't
(34:42):
mind spooky season running year round. But oh well, it's
been a long time since I've had dungeness crab. I
can't fully remember, but now I have cravings we need
to find a way to normalize it for lunch though, Oh.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
My goodness, yea having Dungeoness Crab for lunch had me
kind of clutched. You know, you're right, we have a
fancy lunch.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Right, more fancy lunches. No reason not to.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Yeah, go for it, go for it. Okay. Yes, I
have loved hearing from all of you listeners about Halloween marketing.
Please keep writing it cool. Yeah, even though Halloween is over,
you know, we love it all year round, and I
have really really enjoyed hearing about how it's gone, because
(35:38):
I don't know, I got a lot of messages from
people who were lamenting, kind of lamenting. Where have all
the like trigger treaters gone? Yeah, there used to be
a lot more trigger treaters and just why that is
and all of these other things. But I did. I
(35:59):
have loved here from from you all about the Halloween
marketing you've run into and the experiences you had this Halloween.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
So thank you, yes, oh yes, oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
So, so I actually have a couple of recent personal
experiences to share that are related to a couple of
these things. Uh. One of them is that I found
myself in Pittsburgh last week and I was I didn't
find myself. It wasn't a mystery as to how. I mean,
I've gone on an airplane, but uh, but yeah, I
was there for a wedding. It was a Chinese American
(36:37):
family was one of the humans who was getting married,
and the best man, during his speech, told a story
about how on a dare he once ate an entire
mooncake by himself, oh the groom.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
The groom had.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Dared him to eat an entire one, and that despite
it being a lot, it was still an enjoyable experience.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
That's good.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yeah, yeah, And speaking of I need to report to
all of you that there was a cookie table at
the wedding and it was glorious. There were Chinese style
takeout boxes as little to go containers for everything, which
was very on theme and adorable. And yeah, there were
like ten to a dozen different types of cookies. There were,
(37:22):
like and from different bakeries and like wrapped up in
different ways. I also did see a terrible towel in person.
There weren't any cookies themed about that, but that's that's okay.
That's I can't expect everything from everywhere, and I did
go to Primani Brothers and it was glorious. I had
a giant burger with fries on the sandwich.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
It was so good. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
I had a really good corn beef at a deli
somewhere else. It was, it was all together. I don't
I don't think I specifically remember any pro bloone experiences,
but so glad, so glad that it exists.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Yeah. Yeah, Lauren was telling me before we started recording,
there were a lot of good sandwich experiences, so many
good sandwiches, and I'm jealous, you.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Know, yeah, I mean you know it's we can Atlanta
is a decent sandwich town.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Yeah, yeah, it is. It is craving sandwiches for I
feel like the thing, the thing we don't talk about
enough on when we say like this show gives us cravings,
is that I get cravings for not even things that
we were talking about in the episode. The cravings just
(38:45):
become so huge because I'm like, well, Provo owned his
own sandwiches, and now I want to send.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
And now I want yeah, and so I have.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
I have been craving sandwiches for a while.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
I believe that you can make this. You can make
this happen for yourself.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
I definitely can, but I'm so behind. I'm trying to
make mapo tofu right now. I have all the ingredients.
The ingredient is, I have all the ingredients. I think
it might be tricky, but that's how behind I am
eating my cravings.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Well all right then, you know that's that's do your best.
You're doing great, You're doing fine, You're gonna work it out.
Oh yeah, may may, May the sandwich has come to.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
You, May the sandwiches be with But I was jealous
of your sandwich experiences. But also I am glad to
hear that you saw a cookie table with the takeout
boxes in full force.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Oh yeah, yeah, and I will say that that people
like before the ceremony, people were getting boxes of the cookies.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
So yeah, the important things.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Yeah, oh no, absolutely, like people are like, look, we
are here for a joyous union of two beautiful people,
but both cookies.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Yeah yeah, I'm good, reasonable, definitely definitely okay. Well, thank
you so much to both of these listeners for writing in.
If you would like to write to us, you can.
Our email is Hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
We're also on social media. Sometimes we're on a blue
Sky and Instagram at saver pod and we do hope
to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts my heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
(40:51):
that lots more good things are coming your way
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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