June 18, 2025 • 40 mins
This type of restaurant serves nostalgic cuisine at affordable prices – though they’re becoming more difficult to find. Anney and Lauren load up on the history and cultures behind Southern-style cafeteria dining.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to save your prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm
Annie Reeve.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode
for you about Southern style cafeteria dining.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yes, yes, and we had to be specific because there's
a lot of different types of cafeteria dining.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Yes, absolutely, and this is a kind of particular one,
and we figured it's worthy of its own of its
own episode. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Yes, And I, even though I already know the answer,
I asked the question, Lauren, was there any reason was
on your mind?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Well, you suggested it.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yeah, here we go.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
So Father's Day just passed this past weekend, and so
I was asking Annie if she had any Dad related
still that she might want to talk about, and she
she mentioned, did you mention a specific one or just
like just like cafeteria style restaurants in general?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, I just said cafeteria style. But then you followed
up and I was like, these are the two which
I now know. The other one was that I couldn't
remember the name. These are the two that I associate
with my dad.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yes, yeah, yes, I, perhaps perhaps embarrassingly, have spent twenty
years in Atlanta and have never been to any of
these to any of the chains of these places. I
still have never set foot in a Piccadillys, but but
I have been many times to like like privately owned
(01:44):
independent ones. So here we are.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah, and that that totally counts. Yeah, And it was
really interesting to read about. And I there are some
things that I've just never considered that they were, like
the invention up the tray. Yeah, okay, I haven't thought
about that. My dad, It's funny every time you ask
(02:09):
me and I send you a bunch of topics, and like,
all but two of them are very southern. He was
a very he loved Southern food, and when we were
growing up to celebrate things, he wanted to go to
what was at first a Morrison's and then became a Piccadillies,
(02:32):
which we will talk about, which to me is a child,
I was a little I don't want to say condescending,
but I was like, we could go anywhere, and we're
driving thirty minutes to this cafeteria and I've confessed before,
I'm really nervous holding the tray. Oh sure, yeah now,
(02:54):
and then even as a kid, I was like, I
can't do this.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I'm gonna drop it.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Do you know how clumsy I am. A real nerve
wracking experience for me, But I do get like he
loved it. He I've also said he loved liver and onions,
and you couldn't get that in too many places, but
a lot of the cafeterias had it. But he just
I think he loved the affordability of it. He grew
(03:20):
up in that mindset of like you're getting this price,
and he loved that there were all these options. And
you know, even me as a kid who was like
we could have gone somewhere else, I did like like
it was sort of fun to see like, oh look
at all these options.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah damn, what will it be? And I get to
pick exactly what I want and it's not like yeah yeah,
sure yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
And I did like the food. It was just sort of,
I guess for some reason, to.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Me, I was like, this is not fancy, like we
were talking about it. This is normal, This is normal. Yeah,
what is fancy about this? I see you.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah, he loved it. He loved it. Well, yeah you
can see. I mean, we're going to talk about a
lot of the are mentioned, at least a lot of
the foods featured at these types of establishments here, but
a lot of Southern foods.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, yeah, right, it's I list a lot of them.
Just kind of take it from there.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Oh yeah, in automats.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Oh and automats definitely sure.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
The automat episode. Okay, So this brings us to question
Southern style cafeterias. What are they?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Well, American Southern style cafeterias are restaurants where you typically
order by going up to a series of stations inside
the restaurant and picking a number of dishes to make
up your meal you have and workers will add the
dishes to your tray or scoop them onto a plate
on your tray, which you then take, hopefully safe and sound,
(05:08):
to a table in the dining room where you eat
your meal. You pay at the end of the line
when you order, and can add a beverage, which might
be handed to you or brought around to your table
by an attendant, or might be self serve. Something like
a yeast roll or a piece of corn bread is
usually included, and you can usually add a dessert like
a pie or a banana pudding to your order. The
dishes tend to be local Southern style comfort foods, proteins
(05:32):
might be roasted or barbecued or breaded and deep fried.
Sides might be a stewed veg or bean dishes, cast
rolls of various kinds pastas like spaghetti or mac and cheese.
Sometimes spaghetti and meat sauce is considered a protein that's
a little bit granular. For this episode, I needed to
mention it out loud, but anyway, the concept is sometimes
called a meat in three because the typical order is
(05:54):
a meat in three sides, though many as often do
have pricing for like a meat in two, for a
play of four sides, or for ordering things a la carte.
The concept is considered a little nostalgically old fashioned, and
a lot of the dishes tend towards a little old
fashioned like kind of heavy and salty and soft, really
stick to your ribs satisfying sort of things. Though. This
(06:18):
style of restaurant is really homey but also really structured.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
It's a it's a.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Choose your own adventure book but for but for eating.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yes, And I have to say, my dad was not
the only fan like people have such nostalgias.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, uh.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So my condescending child, I understand and now I want
to go back and try to.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Get Yeah, yeah, I was. This was a very hungry
episode for me. I was really mad that I wasn't
eating everything I'm about to talk about. Yes, anyway, okay,
acknowledge here at the top that yes, there are other
types of cafeterias out there. They have the same route
and the same style of service, but evolved into their
own thing, you know, like a cafeteria at a school,
(07:12):
a hospital, prison, office building, shopping mall ikea, or like
a fast casual concept like a Boston Market or Chipotle.
Those are different than what we're talking about today. We
do absolutely want to hear about other cafeterias, right in.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Let us know.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Do you have a local one that serves specific local things. Yes,
tell us about it, please, thank you. Also, not all
meet and threes have cafeteria style service. Some do table service,
some are buffets. But yeah, here we are so all
that being said, Southern style cafeterias tend to be places
(07:51):
you would go for lunch specifically. Some are open for dinner,
maybe brunch on weekend. A lot of the chains, especially
are very bright and like sterile feeling, maybe a little institutional,
But some of the independent ones are either fancier or
kind of dive heer. There's often an egalitarian sort of
(08:11):
feel to them these days. You know, at the table
next to you, you might see folks you know or
folks from a completely different walk of life. There's usually
a kitchen in the back where they prepare the food,
often inan like big service tubs, and then either like
a bar, or a number of separate stations with warming
trays or warming lamps where you can look at the
(08:31):
dishes on offer and pick what you'd like, like a buffet,
but each station has an attendant who is serving you
rather than you serving yourself. Traditionally, anything that can be
served with an ice cream scoop probably is, and the
dishes often rotate, with different things on offer every day,
sometimes on a schedule, like meat loaf is on Mondays,
(08:54):
fried catfish is on Tuesdays, that kind of thing, But
the dishes really can vary based on where you are
and like the general price point of the restaurant in question,
Like there are absolutely cafeterias that will serve you a
slice of prime rib or some nice roasted trout or
like sautage shrimp. Mouse cafeterias are on the more affordable side, though,
(09:14):
and serve less expensive proteins like lots of chicken and pork.
So you've got you know, your fried chicken, chicken, fried steak,
fried pork chops, fried catfish or cod or whiting. Maybe
honey baked ham, roasted chicken, roasted turkey, non fried pork chops,
they do exist, blackened fish, barbecued pork ribs or pulled
chicken or pork. Maybe some meatloaf, chopped steak, beef tips,
(09:37):
pot roast. Also Okay, I didn't know exactly where to
put this note, but I need to inform you that
gravy can and will be ladled on top of any
protein or starch. If you're fancy, you got a choice
between your white gravy and your brown gravy.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
That is your own adventure.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Indeed, that is up to you. Cheese Wisely, the sides
are often the kind of things that take a long
time to cook but are easy to batch, the sort
of things you might otherwise see at like a family
supper on a nice Sunday or at a Thanksgiving or
maybe a good cookout, So like collards or mustard or
(10:19):
turnip greens cooked down with hot pepper and vinegar until
they're just silky, creamy squash or broccoli casserole topped with
bread crumbs and plenty of melty cheese, baked beans in
a sauce of brown sugar and tomato, or maybe some
lighter hop and john or like just simple stewed butter
beans or black eyed peas, soufflated sweet potato or carrot casserole,
(10:40):
or stewed apples, also sugary that they should probably be
classified as desserts, but they're not. Green beans stewed within
an inch of their life, probably with pork product in.
They're always ask if you're vegetarian, stewed or fried okra,
creamed corn, corn on the cub, potatoes mashed or baked
or French fried, or hash browned ice play in our
(11:00):
seasoned hush puppies, which if you have never been to
the South and have never had there, these like savory
fried dumplings, and you should come to here and you
should eat them because they're so good, really important, very
(11:20):
usually some kind of like super stew like maybe chili
or brunswick or chicken and dumplings, a side salad, a
jello salad, a potato or macaroni salad, cole slaw, tomato
and cucumber salad. Desserts could include like a scoop of
cobbler or a slice of pie, a big ol' wiggly block,
(11:42):
or maybe some cubes of jello, puddings of various flavors,
maybe layer cake or strawberry shortcake. Like, the South is
big and there are lots of local specialties. For example,
if you're in Texas, you might get enchiladas. If you're
in Louisiana there might be gumbo. If I have not
mentioned your favorite menu item, it is not a personal
(12:04):
slight except for you. You know what you did? No no, no, no,
no no no.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I love you.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I love you. Please write in, please wad in. In
terms of beverages, fancier and or dive, your joints might
serve beer and wine, but the drinks are generally non
alcoholic soft drinks, iced tea, have hot tea, hot coffee.
You know, I highly recommend getting yourself a sweet tea
and just seeing God through the sugar rush.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yes, yeah, gets your hush buck, get your sweet tea.
I have to say, you know, looking back to as
a child, I didn't know half the things work, huh.
But the jello. I love how so many people brought
up the jello because you could see it just.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Shining and gleaming.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, you knew it was coming. Yeah, yeah, all these
choices you had to make. Well, speaking of what about
the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Really depends, really really depends.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
That's up to you, buddy. Yep. Indeed, well we do
have some numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, okay. So this type of restaurant is rare enough
these days that market reports on the American restaurant industry
do not always include standalone cafeterias as their own category.
In fact, most of the reports that I saw did not. So, however,
(13:46):
there certainly are still chains and independence in operation. At
one this family owned Houston cafeteria called Cleeburn, they estimate
that seventy percent of their customers are regulars.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yes, And I was actually watching a kind of mini
documentary about it before this, and it was really sweet
because they were just kind of walking around and interviewing
people and they're like, yeah, I've been coming here with
my family for x amount mini generations.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Every week or even every day.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, And some people would come you know, lunch in
dinner or like they I think they referred to it
at one point as like the dining room.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
But yeah, yeah, people treating it like their own home.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah yeah, in a nice way, in a friendly way.
Yeah yeah, definitely, definitely. Well, we are going to talk
more about Cleveborn and some other places because there is
quite a history here to one.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Pack there there is, and we are going to get
into that as soon as we get back from a
quick break.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
For a word from our sponsors, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay, So, as we said,
we are focusing on Southern style cafeteria dining for this episode,
but briefly, according to several sources, the idea of cafeteria
style dining like this was introduced at Chicago's Columbian Exposition
in eighteen ninety three by John Krueger, and Krueger was
(15:30):
inspired by Sweden's Schmorgasbors, so he set up a restaurant
to showcase where he thought this type of dining could go.
In Kruger's mind, this type of restaurant should serve affordable,
light foods, and he called them cafeterias. Millions of people
attended this event, and we're exposed to this idea, and
(15:53):
after this we see the branching of two interpretations of
this idea, the automat and the cafeteria. In eighteen ninety eight,
William and Samuel Childs introduced the tray and trey line
format at one of their New York restaurants. And this
is where I was like, I've never thought about who
invented the tray, but I'm not saying they did. But
(16:16):
I was like, I've never even considered this, and I
should have. Share. Customers liked trays because in their minds
it was cleaner. The whole concept of this style of
dining may have been in part popularized by Henry Ford
of Ford Motors, who really sold this idea of assembly
style production. In the nineteen tens, cafeterias modeled after this
(16:38):
one started opening around the country, but they particularly took
off in the South. The Southern style cafeteria was popular
for restauranteurs for many reasons similar to what we discussed
in our automatic episode. It was an example of cuisine
that was consistent, efficient, and in this case, fairly cheap.
(17:00):
On top of that, this was a time of a
lot of industrialization and an evolution of what work looked
like a lot of folks were moving from farming to
working in a factory. In some fields, people had perhaps
had the time to go home for lunch, but they
didn't have that time anymore. On top of this, more
and more people were moving to cities, but they may
(17:22):
have still craved the homie food from the more rural
areas that they grew up in, or even from going
home for lunch. Restaurant purveyors saw an opportunity in that
to cater to all of this, some cafeterias started opening
and offering something like a meat and three plate. It
(17:42):
was quick, affordable, clean, and offered many options for workers
on their lunch break.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
And part of the draw here, especially during the leaner
times of like the nineteen teens and twenties, was this
baked and emphasis on minimizing expensive meat and filling up
on generous portions of vegetable and starch based sides. Nutritional
science was also kind of starting to happen around this
(18:08):
time and was recommending this style of plate building.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
That's interesting, okay. The food itself was very traditionally Southern,
very homey, comforting. Perhaps, as discussed, a lot of these
dishes trace back to the recipes and influences of enslaved
West Africans.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Also important to note these are places that were most
likely segregated before up until the Civil Rights Act of
nineteen sixty four.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
So yes, okay, So a lot of the big chains
when we're talking about this category started opening in the
nineteen twenties. If I don't mention your favorite, I'm sorry
and write in Also, these are abbreviated histories, otherwise this
episode would be ridiculously along.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah, at least a few of these. We could go
on for a whole, solid, normal, forty five minute episode about.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yes, but I was starting to feel fear in my heart.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
So certainly, if we ever get around to traveling again,
I would love to, you know, do some oral history
with some locals about you know, whichever whichever chain is pertinent.
But anyway, here we are, Yes, here we are. So.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
One of the first was a chain called Morrisons that
popped up in the nineteen twenties. It was first opened
in Mobile, Alabama and founded by Ja Morrison. This restaurant
aim to provide these fresh, homey, pre cooked options that
were financially within reach, and people really took to it,
and over time the chain balloon to one hundred and
(19:48):
fifty locations across the United States. Each of them offered
over one hundred items that were made that day, and
many of the offerings were based on region. This chain
remained popular until the nineteen eighties, which you might hear
see you might see a eighties come a lot. We'll
talk about that later. Most of their locations were eventually
(20:12):
bought by competitor Piccadilly, Inc. There is one still operating
under the name Morrison's Immobile, and you can actually find
a lot written about it, and a lot of it
is really endearing, so recommend but that that is That's
definitely what happened. When I was missing to you, I
was like, I know it used to go buy one
name and it went by a different name. It was
(20:34):
this there you go which speaking of Thomas J. Costas
opened a small cafeteria in Baton Rouge, Louisiana called Piccadilly
in nineteen thirty. Two years later, in nineteen forty four,
a businessman who had experience working in the cafeteria business
named Tandy Hannibal Hamilton purchased this cafeteria.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Good name, Oh Southerners with their names like that, miled.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Tandy is in quotes and everybody refers to him as Tandy,
and I'm like, I don't know him that way. I
can't refer to him as Tandy, So I'm referring to
him as Hamilton. Yes, but I understand that. I guess
Tandy is what he really went by anyway. Hamilton had
(21:26):
worked and learned as a chef previously during his time
as a soldier in France. In nineteen eighteen, when he
returned to the United States, he started working as a
Sioux chef in Texas. According to some sources, the lack
of affordable housing caused by the oil boom and the
state meant that he and his wife lived in a
tent city and gave birth to their daughter there. They
(21:48):
then moved to Kansas City, where Hamilton got a job
with the chain The Forum Cafeterias, eventually rising up to
earn a position as a chef and later the general
manager of the chain. Inten thirty four, a little less
than a decade later, he felt limited in his job
growth opportunities, so he decided he wanted to see about
(22:08):
starting his own cafeteria style restaurant. Its purchasing Piccadilly. Despite
wartime rations of the time, Hamilton tapped his friends and
set to work expanding, opening restaurants in various states, and
like we see so often in these episodes, he was
really big on consistency and he tested a lot of
(22:30):
the recipes himself. But he was also big on incorporating
local taste. He really wanted franchises to have their own input.
Once submitted, if approved, the recipes they might send would
be used at every restaurant. They even developed this whole
system based on minimizing food waste and cost. They got
(22:52):
pretty specific, like how to cut meat. There's actually a
really long paper you canus that I appreciate and enjoy.
But they got they really got down to the nitty
gritty of the whole thing. Their growth in the South
really expanded in the nineteen fifties and in the sixties
they were operating as far as Arizona. The fortieth Thiccadillies
(23:14):
opened at Decatur, Georgia's South to capmol And nineteen seventy one.
When I read this, I was.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Like, oh, oh, yeah, that's just right down the street.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Sure. The number of locations doubled by the eighties. Well Yes,
here's another one. In the nineteen forties, Bob Louby established Looby's,
which went on to become one of the country's first
cafeteria chains. His father, Harry had opened New England Dairy
(23:45):
lunch Cafeterias Missouri in nineteen eleven. After Bob took over,
the chainsaw a lot of growth, first in Texas and
then elsewhere. By the eighties they had sixty three locations,
primarily in Texas. And people are so they remember this
so fondly. Absolutely, Yeah, yes, But unfortunately we do have
(24:07):
to mention in nineteen ninety one there was a mass
shooting at a Luby's, including Texas. It was the most
fatal mass shooting in the US until two thousand and seven.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, which, at a certain point, I guess speaks to
the way that these sorts of places can become centers
of community. Unfortunately, in terms of a tragedy like that.
Lubies celebrated their seventy fifth anniversary in twenty twenty three, though,
and put out displays in some locations of vintage cookwear
(24:42):
and photos of their staff and customers from years past.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yes, and I don't think we've mentioned but a lot
of people have discussed how they have like Thanksgiving meals.
You can have a Thanksgiving meal at a lot of
these places. Yeah, yeah, a lot of people fondly remember
Louvie's Thanksgiving mill. I love that. Greek immigrant Nick mckellis
(25:09):
purchased a cafeteria in Houston in nineteen fifty two, allegedly
at the behest of his wife. According to some, he
originally wanted to turn it into a barbecue joint, but
a bunch of the regulars really pushed back. We're like, no, no, cafeteria,
you will not be doing that. So he's stuck with
the idea he learned from the original owners and Cleveborne
(25:29):
Cafeteria became incredibly popular. It already was, but it really
took off. People love it, and again, they just have
these fun memories of it. It's really beautiful to hear
people talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. And in twenty sixteen,
the restaurant burned down and a huge outpouring of support
(25:51):
followed and they reopened more than a year later, and
they were all these interviews with people who were so
relieved that it really Yeah, and this was the second
time the restaurant had been devastated. By a fire and
had kind of the community support come around and helped
them build back up. Yeah, but, as we've been mentioning
(26:16):
alluding to, this style of dining did go downhill. It
became less popular, at least widely in the mainstream, and
a lot of things contributed to that. The introduction and
proliferation of fast food restaurants started chipping away at the
popularity of cafeteria style dining beginning in the nineteen sixties.
(26:40):
By the nineteen eighties, Americans started viewing this style of
dining as old fashioned and not in the fun way.
I guess. Not only that, but over the next few
decades we saw the rise of fashion casual dining, which
some argue was just another iteration of cafeteria style dining
in some cases, at least since a lot of the
(27:02):
restaurants were located in malls. The decline of the mall
didn't help either. The one we went to was in.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
A mall, yeah, in or sometimes in the same like
lot ash.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, but they are not all gone, and in a
lot of places they're going strong still. Even if it
is just a single local restaurant like Cleve Burn's, that
place is going yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
No forever. Yeah, in some chains during this general time period,
like Loubi's and Morrison's got into institutional dining, like cafeterias
at universities or hospitals or corporate parks, so pivot, pivot.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah. Piccadilly filed for bankruptcy twice in the early two thousands.
They tried it to go concept that never really seemed
to take off as early as the nineteen nineties, and then,
as you might imagine, COVID hit this style of restaurant
pretty hard.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah, I mean, you know, COVID hit the whole restaurant
industry pretty hard. Interestingly, some buffets switched to cafeteria style
service during the pandemic in order to like minimize customer
interaction with with serving utensils and to be able to
install like full guards instead of just sneeze guards. But yeah,
(28:28):
you know, it's partially due to all the reasons listed
above about fast food, fast casual chains stuff like that,
and also some of the people for whom this has
been a big nostalgic thing are getting older and maybe
not going out as much. But some cafeterias have like
(28:49):
opened up online ordering and take out and delivery options
or have moved into catering or doing like mobile pop
ups stuff like that to try to attract newer audiences.
It's I feel like I was like, oh, back to
Lauren's Killjoy Corner over here. So, like a larger issue
(29:12):
in the restaurant industry is profit margins and the rising
costs of ingredients and overhead, especially like energy and rent.
You know, because like restaurants and especially independent joints are
expensive to run, and they are difficult to work, and
they don't typically make a lot of money. Yet you know,
(29:35):
they are a vital joy in a community, gathering places
and incubators of culture. So yeah, when you can support local,
if there's a place that you have nostalgia for, go
go there. Eat some hutchpipies.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
There was one There was one mom and pop version
of this that my dad really loved, and it was
in Cleveland, which was also like a thirty because.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
I Georgia, not Cleveland, Ohio to be specific.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yes, but I didn't mention, but I grew up where
I grew up. When I was growing up, there was
we had to drive a long time to get to
these restaurants. That was part of the reason I was
kind of like why, but he really loved this one
in Cleveland, and it was it was you could tell
it was a place people came like they had their
regulars and they knew what the specials were every day,
(30:36):
and there was something about it that just felt like, oh,
i'd somebody. There was a quote I read somewhere that
was like, it feels like my grandmother's in the back cooking. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Yeah, yeah, And I like a lot of the things
that I read from people who opened one of these
however long ago, or who took over from from a
parent said but you know, they wanted to keep doing
it because they wanted to cook like their grandparents cooked,
and they wanted to keep that style of food alive.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, I do recommend what one of the little indie
places that I have been to a lot back when
our offices were in Pont City Market here in Atlanta
is a place across the street called Eats, which is
just lovely, lovely.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yes, And it's also a place that like people who
have been or like you get the cheer wine or
you have all these like specific right. Yeah, it was fun.
That's a good one. Yeah, But we would love to
hear from you listeners any thoughts about this, And as
we said, we were focusing on this specific style, but
(31:50):
we know it exists outside. Oh yeah, so anywhere right in? Yeah,
let us know, Oh please please please.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Meanwhile, I think that is all that we have to
say about Southern style cafeterias for now.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
It is, But that does bring us to listener mail.
We have already received.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
It does, and we are going to get into that
as soon as we get back from one more quick
break forward from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
And we're back.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
With listen lot. Oh, we didn't even talk about trey etiquette.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
That's sorry, that's my bad. That should have been in
the about section at the top. There there is deep
tray etiquette about, like like, you know, making sure how
you face yourself in the tray line next to other customers,
about how you jostle and handle your tray so that
(33:07):
you're not because it's usually on these little metal rails
and you don't want to jostle too hard so that
you make a bunch of noise. If you pass the
station and you decide you wanted something from there, I
think it's gone. I think you have to It's forward
only it's like any S games and you're Mario. You
have to keep going. There's no going back.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yeah. See can't you see why an anxious child we
view this as such a shore. Yeah? Yeah, I was
so nervous. My dad's having the time of his.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
Life anyway, Okay, Ramble wrote, Hi, all, Your Dorito's episode
brought to mind a wonderful karma memory.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
I had a truly a whole boss showed up to
an art opening. This was in the early nine and
he was wearing his new white suit. Oh no, he
was double fisting doritos and cheese curls and discovered there
were no napkins or public restrooms. After seeing that his
(34:13):
hands were orange and he was wearing a white suit,
he spent the rest of the opening with his hands
away from his body. I so enjoyed that. Thank you, Doritos. Wow,
a white suit.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
A lot of mistakes were made here.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yeah that's uh yeah, being a guy wearing a white
suit and double staying doritos and cheese and that is bold.
That is a number of bold choices to have made,
and it sounds like he really deserved it.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
So Also, it sounds like somebody might have set this up,
because if there are no napkins, somebody either was like,
I'm going to get some people, or it's like a
a mishap happened, something fell through the cracks. But I
don't know. Maybe this smith this was a setup. It
(35:12):
could be.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
It could be a total coincidence. It could be a
setup from the universe. You never know.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
I do think double fisting, like I would I get
like one if I had a fistful, But if I'm
going for both, that's really yeah, that is that's flying.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Right there. Yeah yeah, Oh the cheesy son. It's my
favorite son to fly too close too. Tracy wrote, I
just finished putting together and a low Ta pasta salad
(35:52):
as I wrote in about potato salad, and felt morally
obliged to write to you about pasta salad. I agree
with Lauren. As a pasta lover and a exture first person,
there is a lot that can go wrong with pasta salad.
The tip about overcooking the noodles is one hundred percent effective.
I suggest at least one minute beyond the box instructions,
here are a few other tricks to improve the pasta
(36:13):
salad experience. First, make the dressing in a large bowl
and pour the hot, freshly drained pasta into the dressing.
It will absorb the dressing, preserving flavor and improving texture.
Wants the pasta cools. This is best for vinegarette, but
with a mayo based dressing. Let the pasta cool for
a few minutes before adding it. Second, save some pasta water.
(36:34):
As with any good pasta dish, saving some of the
warm water filled with starch granules and adding it to
the pasta when tossing it in the sauce will help
thicken the sauce and with adherence to the noodles. I
do this with pasta salads too. When the pasta is
cooling and absorbing the dressing, it will help keep things smooth.
I don't know if there is a scientific reason why,
but I just applied the pasta logic and it worked,
(36:56):
so I kept doing it. Third, a minimum of four
hours in the fridge before serving is essential for flavor melding. Last,
if serving at a cookout, keep the salad in an
insulated bag or cooler on ice. No one wants a
warm snack or food poisoning, so keep it chilled. Side
note balsamic vinegar is a great topic suggestion. Apparently white
(37:19):
balsamic is not really balsamic in the dop definition yeast
poop and legal semantics. Sounds like a great episode to me.
Thank you for giving me an excuse to go through
my mom's recipes. It brought me a lot of joy,
as do all of your episodes. Wishing you and your
team well in these weird times. And Tracy also sent
in recipes for Greek pasta salad and tortellini pasta salad.
(37:42):
If anyone would like them, yes.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Just contact us. They sounded delicious and I do love
the tortellini pasta salad was just her mom's shorthand, and
I think it was for like one hundred and eighty people.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Oh my heck yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
And so she was like, here's how you cut.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
It down to, you know, a normal human size.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
But it was funny because there's a picture of it.
I was reading it like, I don't know what, I
don't understand. I can't comprehend.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Uh, it's too many tortellini, but.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
It's fantastic because my mom does that too. And I
read it, I'm like I think she.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, if you're only ever
making it for a whole cookout full of people, then
why would do you need it for a four person serving.
That's the ridiculous part.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
I think it was twelve packs of tortellini hoofda, it was.
It was it was the serious business.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
I'll say, all of this sounds like serious business, so
it does.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
I love the tips. Very professional makes sense to me.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
We've also heard other people about their their pasta salad
techniques and recipes, and there's just such a huge range
and I kind of adore it.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Oh yeah, it's yeah. As as I was saying in
that one, you know, like at a certain point I
was just listing foods that can go into anything. I
was like, I have I have to stop because otherwise
I'm just listing literally every food on the planet.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
But Super Producer Andrew chimed in with the caesar pasta salad.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yeah, yeah, with a good caesar dressing.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Sure I can see that. Also, Yes, I feel like
assamic vinegar is up there with olive oil in terms.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Of hey, i think we've been avoiding it.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Nerves that I think about it, but.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
I think I think that it would be a little
bit more contained there are a bunch of different varieties
that yeah but yeah absolutely when of one of my
favorite things on the planet, so tasty, so good.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Yeah ma too these poop and legal semantics you know
how win is over not know here here we are
on board. Well, Thank you so much to both of
those listeners to writing in. If you would like to try
to us, you can our emails hello at saborpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
We're also in social media. You can find us on
Blue Sky and Instagram at savre pod, and we do
hope to hear from you. Save is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
(40:47):
your way.
Hello, and welcome to save your prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm
Annie Reeve.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode
for you about Southern style cafeteria dining.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yes, yes, and we had to be specific because there's
a lot of different types of cafeteria dining.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Yes, absolutely, and this is a kind of particular one,
and we figured it's worthy of its own of its
own episode. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Yes, And I, even though I already know the answer,
I asked the question, Lauren, was there any reason was
on your mind?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Well, you suggested it.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yeah, here we go.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
So Father's Day just passed this past weekend, and so
I was asking Annie if she had any Dad related
still that she might want to talk about, and she
she mentioned, did you mention a specific one or just
like just like cafeteria style restaurants in general?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, I just said cafeteria style. But then you followed
up and I was like, these are the two which
I now know. The other one was that I couldn't
remember the name. These are the two that I associate
with my dad.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yes, yeah, yes, I, perhaps perhaps embarrassingly, have spent twenty
years in Atlanta and have never been to any of
these to any of the chains of these places. I
still have never set foot in a Piccadillys, but but
I have been many times to like like privately owned
(01:44):
independent ones. So here we are.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah, and that that totally counts. Yeah, And it was
really interesting to read about. And I there are some
things that I've just never considered that they were, like
the invention up the tray. Yeah, okay, I haven't thought
about that. My dad, It's funny every time you ask
(02:09):
me and I send you a bunch of topics, and like,
all but two of them are very southern. He was
a very he loved Southern food, and when we were
growing up to celebrate things, he wanted to go to
what was at first a Morrison's and then became a Piccadillies,
(02:32):
which we will talk about, which to me is a child,
I was a little I don't want to say condescending,
but I was like, we could go anywhere, and we're
driving thirty minutes to this cafeteria and I've confessed before,
I'm really nervous holding the tray. Oh sure, yeah now,
(02:54):
and then even as a kid, I was like, I
can't do this.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I'm gonna drop it.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Do you know how clumsy I am. A real nerve
wracking experience for me, But I do get like he
loved it. He I've also said he loved liver and onions,
and you couldn't get that in too many places, but
a lot of the cafeterias had it. But he just
I think he loved the affordability of it. He grew
(03:20):
up in that mindset of like you're getting this price,
and he loved that there were all these options. And
you know, even me as a kid who was like
we could have gone somewhere else, I did like like
it was sort of fun to see like, oh look
at all these options.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah damn, what will it be? And I get to
pick exactly what I want and it's not like yeah yeah,
sure yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
And I did like the food. It was just sort of,
I guess for some reason, to.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Me, I was like, this is not fancy, like we
were talking about it. This is normal, This is normal. Yeah,
what is fancy about this? I see you.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah, he loved it. He loved it. Well, yeah you
can see. I mean, we're going to talk about a
lot of the are mentioned, at least a lot of
the foods featured at these types of establishments here, but
a lot of Southern foods.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, yeah, right, it's I list a lot of them.
Just kind of take it from there.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Oh yeah, in automats.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Oh and automats definitely sure.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
The automat episode. Okay, So this brings us to question
Southern style cafeterias. What are they?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Well, American Southern style cafeterias are restaurants where you typically
order by going up to a series of stations inside
the restaurant and picking a number of dishes to make
up your meal you have and workers will add the
dishes to your tray or scoop them onto a plate
on your tray, which you then take, hopefully safe and sound,
(05:08):
to a table in the dining room where you eat
your meal. You pay at the end of the line
when you order, and can add a beverage, which might
be handed to you or brought around to your table
by an attendant, or might be self serve. Something like
a yeast roll or a piece of corn bread is
usually included, and you can usually add a dessert like
a pie or a banana pudding to your order. The
dishes tend to be local Southern style comfort foods, proteins
(05:32):
might be roasted or barbecued or breaded and deep fried.
Sides might be a stewed veg or bean dishes, cast
rolls of various kinds pastas like spaghetti or mac and cheese.
Sometimes spaghetti and meat sauce is considered a protein that's
a little bit granular. For this episode, I needed to
mention it out loud, but anyway, the concept is sometimes
called a meat in three because the typical order is
(05:54):
a meat in three sides, though many as often do
have pricing for like a meat in two, for a
play of four sides, or for ordering things a la carte.
The concept is considered a little nostalgically old fashioned, and
a lot of the dishes tend towards a little old
fashioned like kind of heavy and salty and soft, really
stick to your ribs satisfying sort of things. Though. This
(06:18):
style of restaurant is really homey but also really structured.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
It's a it's a.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Choose your own adventure book but for but for eating.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yes, And I have to say, my dad was not
the only fan like people have such nostalgias.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, uh.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So my condescending child, I understand and now I want
to go back and try to.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Get Yeah, yeah, I was. This was a very hungry
episode for me. I was really mad that I wasn't
eating everything I'm about to talk about. Yes, anyway, okay,
acknowledge here at the top that yes, there are other
types of cafeterias out there. They have the same route
and the same style of service, but evolved into their
own thing, you know, like a cafeteria at a school,
(07:12):
a hospital, prison, office building, shopping mall ikea, or like
a fast casual concept like a Boston Market or Chipotle.
Those are different than what we're talking about today. We
do absolutely want to hear about other cafeterias, right in.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Let us know.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Do you have a local one that serves specific local things. Yes,
tell us about it, please, thank you. Also, not all
meet and threes have cafeteria style service. Some do table service,
some are buffets. But yeah, here we are so all
that being said, Southern style cafeterias tend to be places
(07:51):
you would go for lunch specifically. Some are open for dinner,
maybe brunch on weekend. A lot of the chains, especially
are very bright and like sterile feeling, maybe a little institutional,
But some of the independent ones are either fancier or
kind of dive heer. There's often an egalitarian sort of
(08:11):
feel to them these days. You know, at the table
next to you, you might see folks you know or
folks from a completely different walk of life. There's usually
a kitchen in the back where they prepare the food,
often inan like big service tubs, and then either like
a bar, or a number of separate stations with warming
trays or warming lamps where you can look at the
(08:31):
dishes on offer and pick what you'd like, like a buffet,
but each station has an attendant who is serving you
rather than you serving yourself. Traditionally, anything that can be
served with an ice cream scoop probably is, and the
dishes often rotate, with different things on offer every day,
sometimes on a schedule, like meat loaf is on Mondays,
(08:54):
fried catfish is on Tuesdays, that kind of thing, But
the dishes really can vary based on where you are
and like the general price point of the restaurant in question,
Like there are absolutely cafeterias that will serve you a
slice of prime rib or some nice roasted trout or
like sautage shrimp. Mouse cafeterias are on the more affordable side, though,
(09:14):
and serve less expensive proteins like lots of chicken and pork.
So you've got you know, your fried chicken, chicken, fried steak,
fried pork chops, fried catfish or cod or whiting. Maybe
honey baked ham, roasted chicken, roasted turkey, non fried pork chops,
they do exist, blackened fish, barbecued pork ribs or pulled
chicken or pork. Maybe some meatloaf, chopped steak, beef tips,
(09:37):
pot roast. Also Okay, I didn't know exactly where to
put this note, but I need to inform you that
gravy can and will be ladled on top of any
protein or starch. If you're fancy, you got a choice
between your white gravy and your brown gravy.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
That is your own adventure.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Indeed, that is up to you. Cheese Wisely, the sides
are often the kind of things that take a long
time to cook but are easy to batch, the sort
of things you might otherwise see at like a family
supper on a nice Sunday or at a Thanksgiving or
maybe a good cookout, So like collards or mustard or
(10:19):
turnip greens cooked down with hot pepper and vinegar until
they're just silky, creamy squash or broccoli casserole topped with
bread crumbs and plenty of melty cheese, baked beans in
a sauce of brown sugar and tomato, or maybe some
lighter hop and john or like just simple stewed butter
beans or black eyed peas, soufflated sweet potato or carrot casserole,
(10:40):
or stewed apples, also sugary that they should probably be
classified as desserts, but they're not. Green beans stewed within
an inch of their life, probably with pork product in.
They're always ask if you're vegetarian, stewed or fried okra,
creamed corn, corn on the cub, potatoes mashed or baked
or French fried, or hash browned ice play in our
(11:00):
seasoned hush puppies, which if you have never been to
the South and have never had there, these like savory
fried dumplings, and you should come to here and you
should eat them because they're so good, really important, very
(11:20):
usually some kind of like super stew like maybe chili
or brunswick or chicken and dumplings, a side salad, a
jello salad, a potato or macaroni salad, cole slaw, tomato
and cucumber salad. Desserts could include like a scoop of
cobbler or a slice of pie, a big ol' wiggly block,
(11:42):
or maybe some cubes of jello, puddings of various flavors,
maybe layer cake or strawberry shortcake. Like, the South is
big and there are lots of local specialties. For example,
if you're in Texas, you might get enchiladas. If you're
in Louisiana there might be gumbo. If I have not
mentioned your favorite menu item, it is not a personal
(12:04):
slight except for you. You know what you did? No no, no, no,
no no no.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I love you.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I love you. Please write in, please wad in. In
terms of beverages, fancier and or dive, your joints might
serve beer and wine, but the drinks are generally non
alcoholic soft drinks, iced tea, have hot tea, hot coffee.
You know, I highly recommend getting yourself a sweet tea
and just seeing God through the sugar rush.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yes, yeah, gets your hush buck, get your sweet tea.
I have to say, you know, looking back to as
a child, I didn't know half the things work, huh.
But the jello. I love how so many people brought
up the jello because you could see it just.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Shining and gleaming.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, you knew it was coming. Yeah, yeah, all these
choices you had to make. Well, speaking of what about
the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Really depends, really really depends.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
That's up to you, buddy. Yep. Indeed, well we do
have some numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, okay. So this type of restaurant is rare enough
these days that market reports on the American restaurant industry
do not always include standalone cafeterias as their own category.
In fact, most of the reports that I saw did not. So, however,
(13:46):
there certainly are still chains and independence in operation. At
one this family owned Houston cafeteria called Cleeburn, they estimate
that seventy percent of their customers are regulars.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yes, And I was actually watching a kind of mini
documentary about it before this, and it was really sweet
because they were just kind of walking around and interviewing
people and they're like, yeah, I've been coming here with
my family for x amount mini generations.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Every week or even every day.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, And some people would come you know, lunch in
dinner or like they I think they referred to it
at one point as like the dining room.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
But yeah, yeah, people treating it like their own home.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah yeah, in a nice way, in a friendly way.
Yeah yeah, definitely, definitely. Well, we are going to talk
more about Cleveborn and some other places because there is
quite a history here to one.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Pack there there is, and we are going to get
into that as soon as we get back from a
quick break.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
For a word from our sponsors, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay, So, as we said,
we are focusing on Southern style cafeteria dining for this episode,
but briefly, according to several sources, the idea of cafeteria
style dining like this was introduced at Chicago's Columbian Exposition
in eighteen ninety three by John Krueger, and Krueger was
(15:30):
inspired by Sweden's Schmorgasbors, so he set up a restaurant
to showcase where he thought this type of dining could go.
In Kruger's mind, this type of restaurant should serve affordable,
light foods, and he called them cafeterias. Millions of people
attended this event, and we're exposed to this idea, and
(15:53):
after this we see the branching of two interpretations of
this idea, the automat and the cafeteria. In eighteen ninety eight,
William and Samuel Childs introduced the tray and trey line
format at one of their New York restaurants. And this
is where I was like, I've never thought about who
invented the tray, but I'm not saying they did. But
(16:16):
I was like, I've never even considered this, and I
should have. Share. Customers liked trays because in their minds
it was cleaner. The whole concept of this style of
dining may have been in part popularized by Henry Ford
of Ford Motors, who really sold this idea of assembly
style production. In the nineteen tens, cafeterias modeled after this
(16:38):
one started opening around the country, but they particularly took
off in the South. The Southern style cafeteria was popular
for restauranteurs for many reasons similar to what we discussed
in our automatic episode. It was an example of cuisine
that was consistent, efficient, and in this case, fairly cheap.
(17:00):
On top of that, this was a time of a
lot of industrialization and an evolution of what work looked
like a lot of folks were moving from farming to
working in a factory. In some fields, people had perhaps
had the time to go home for lunch, but they
didn't have that time anymore. On top of this, more
and more people were moving to cities, but they may
(17:22):
have still craved the homie food from the more rural
areas that they grew up in, or even from going
home for lunch. Restaurant purveyors saw an opportunity in that
to cater to all of this, some cafeterias started opening
and offering something like a meat and three plate. It
(17:42):
was quick, affordable, clean, and offered many options for workers
on their lunch break.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
And part of the draw here, especially during the leaner
times of like the nineteen teens and twenties, was this
baked and emphasis on minimizing expensive meat and filling up
on generous portions of vegetable and starch based sides. Nutritional
science was also kind of starting to happen around this
(18:08):
time and was recommending this style of plate building.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
That's interesting, okay. The food itself was very traditionally Southern,
very homey, comforting. Perhaps, as discussed, a lot of these
dishes trace back to the recipes and influences of enslaved
West Africans.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Also important to note these are places that were most
likely segregated before up until the Civil Rights Act of
nineteen sixty four.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
So yes, okay, So a lot of the big chains
when we're talking about this category started opening in the
nineteen twenties. If I don't mention your favorite, I'm sorry
and write in Also, these are abbreviated histories, otherwise this
episode would be ridiculously along.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah, at least a few of these. We could go
on for a whole, solid, normal, forty five minute episode about.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yes, but I was starting to feel fear in my heart.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
So certainly, if we ever get around to traveling again,
I would love to, you know, do some oral history
with some locals about you know, whichever whichever chain is pertinent.
But anyway, here we are, Yes, here we are. So.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
One of the first was a chain called Morrisons that
popped up in the nineteen twenties. It was first opened
in Mobile, Alabama and founded by Ja Morrison. This restaurant
aim to provide these fresh, homey, pre cooked options that
were financially within reach, and people really took to it,
and over time the chain balloon to one hundred and
(19:48):
fifty locations across the United States. Each of them offered
over one hundred items that were made that day, and
many of the offerings were based on region. This chain
remained popular until the nineteen eighties, which you might hear
see you might see a eighties come a lot. We'll
talk about that later. Most of their locations were eventually
(20:12):
bought by competitor Piccadilly, Inc. There is one still operating
under the name Morrison's Immobile, and you can actually find
a lot written about it, and a lot of it
is really endearing, so recommend but that that is That's
definitely what happened. When I was missing to you, I
was like, I know it used to go buy one
name and it went by a different name. It was
(20:34):
this there you go which speaking of Thomas J. Costas
opened a small cafeteria in Baton Rouge, Louisiana called Piccadilly
in nineteen thirty. Two years later, in nineteen forty four,
a businessman who had experience working in the cafeteria business
named Tandy Hannibal Hamilton purchased this cafeteria.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Good name, Oh Southerners with their names like that, miled.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Tandy is in quotes and everybody refers to him as Tandy,
and I'm like, I don't know him that way. I
can't refer to him as Tandy, So I'm referring to
him as Hamilton. Yes, but I understand that. I guess
Tandy is what he really went by anyway. Hamilton had
(21:26):
worked and learned as a chef previously during his time
as a soldier in France. In nineteen eighteen, when he
returned to the United States, he started working as a
Sioux chef in Texas. According to some sources, the lack
of affordable housing caused by the oil boom and the
state meant that he and his wife lived in a
tent city and gave birth to their daughter there. They
(21:48):
then moved to Kansas City, where Hamilton got a job
with the chain The Forum Cafeterias, eventually rising up to
earn a position as a chef and later the general
manager of the chain. Inten thirty four, a little less
than a decade later, he felt limited in his job
growth opportunities, so he decided he wanted to see about
(22:08):
starting his own cafeteria style restaurant. Its purchasing Piccadilly. Despite
wartime rations of the time, Hamilton tapped his friends and
set to work expanding, opening restaurants in various states, and
like we see so often in these episodes, he was
really big on consistency and he tested a lot of
(22:30):
the recipes himself. But he was also big on incorporating
local taste. He really wanted franchises to have their own input.
Once submitted, if approved, the recipes they might send would
be used at every restaurant. They even developed this whole
system based on minimizing food waste and cost. They got
(22:52):
pretty specific, like how to cut meat. There's actually a
really long paper you canus that I appreciate and enjoy.
But they got they really got down to the nitty
gritty of the whole thing. Their growth in the South
really expanded in the nineteen fifties and in the sixties
they were operating as far as Arizona. The fortieth Thiccadillies
(23:14):
opened at Decatur, Georgia's South to capmol And nineteen seventy one.
When I read this, I was.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Like, oh, oh, yeah, that's just right down the street.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Sure. The number of locations doubled by the eighties. Well Yes,
here's another one. In the nineteen forties, Bob Louby established Looby's,
which went on to become one of the country's first
cafeteria chains. His father, Harry had opened New England Dairy
(23:45):
lunch Cafeterias Missouri in nineteen eleven. After Bob took over,
the chainsaw a lot of growth, first in Texas and
then elsewhere. By the eighties they had sixty three locations,
primarily in Texas. And people are so they remember this
so fondly. Absolutely, Yeah, yes, But unfortunately we do have
(24:07):
to mention in nineteen ninety one there was a mass
shooting at a Luby's, including Texas. It was the most
fatal mass shooting in the US until two thousand and seven.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, which, at a certain point, I guess speaks to
the way that these sorts of places can become centers
of community. Unfortunately, in terms of a tragedy like that.
Lubies celebrated their seventy fifth anniversary in twenty twenty three, though,
and put out displays in some locations of vintage cookwear
(24:42):
and photos of their staff and customers from years past.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yes, and I don't think we've mentioned but a lot
of people have discussed how they have like Thanksgiving meals.
You can have a Thanksgiving meal at a lot of
these places. Yeah, yeah, a lot of people fondly remember
Louvie's Thanksgiving mill. I love that. Greek immigrant Nick mckellis
(25:09):
purchased a cafeteria in Houston in nineteen fifty two, allegedly
at the behest of his wife. According to some, he
originally wanted to turn it into a barbecue joint, but
a bunch of the regulars really pushed back. We're like, no, no, cafeteria,
you will not be doing that. So he's stuck with
the idea he learned from the original owners and Cleveborne
(25:29):
Cafeteria became incredibly popular. It already was, but it really
took off. People love it, and again, they just have
these fun memories of it. It's really beautiful to hear
people talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. And in twenty sixteen,
the restaurant burned down and a huge outpouring of support
(25:51):
followed and they reopened more than a year later, and
they were all these interviews with people who were so
relieved that it really Yeah, and this was the second
time the restaurant had been devastated. By a fire and
had kind of the community support come around and helped
them build back up. Yeah, but, as we've been mentioning
(26:16):
alluding to, this style of dining did go downhill. It
became less popular, at least widely in the mainstream, and
a lot of things contributed to that. The introduction and
proliferation of fast food restaurants started chipping away at the
popularity of cafeteria style dining beginning in the nineteen sixties.
(26:40):
By the nineteen eighties, Americans started viewing this style of
dining as old fashioned and not in the fun way.
I guess. Not only that, but over the next few
decades we saw the rise of fashion casual dining, which
some argue was just another iteration of cafeteria style dining
in some cases, at least since a lot of the
(27:02):
restaurants were located in malls. The decline of the mall
didn't help either. The one we went to was in.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
A mall, yeah, in or sometimes in the same like
lot ash.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, but they are not all gone, and in a
lot of places they're going strong still. Even if it
is just a single local restaurant like Cleve Burn's, that
place is going yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
No forever. Yeah, in some chains during this general time period,
like Loubi's and Morrison's got into institutional dining, like cafeterias
at universities or hospitals or corporate parks, so pivot, pivot.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah. Piccadilly filed for bankruptcy twice in the early two thousands.
They tried it to go concept that never really seemed
to take off as early as the nineteen nineties, and then,
as you might imagine, COVID hit this style of restaurant
pretty hard.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah, I mean, you know, COVID hit the whole restaurant
industry pretty hard. Interestingly, some buffets switched to cafeteria style
service during the pandemic in order to like minimize customer
interaction with with serving utensils and to be able to
install like full guards instead of just sneeze guards. But yeah,
(28:28):
you know, it's partially due to all the reasons listed
above about fast food, fast casual chains stuff like that,
and also some of the people for whom this has
been a big nostalgic thing are getting older and maybe
not going out as much. But some cafeterias have like
(28:49):
opened up online ordering and take out and delivery options
or have moved into catering or doing like mobile pop
ups stuff like that to try to attract newer audiences.
It's I feel like I was like, oh, back to
Lauren's Killjoy Corner over here. So, like a larger issue
(29:12):
in the restaurant industry is profit margins and the rising
costs of ingredients and overhead, especially like energy and rent.
You know, because like restaurants and especially independent joints are
expensive to run, and they are difficult to work, and
they don't typically make a lot of money. Yet you know,
(29:35):
they are a vital joy in a community, gathering places
and incubators of culture. So yeah, when you can support local,
if there's a place that you have nostalgia for, go
go there. Eat some hutchpipies.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
There was one There was one mom and pop version
of this that my dad really loved, and it was
in Cleveland, which was also like a thirty because.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
I Georgia, not Cleveland, Ohio to be specific.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yes, but I didn't mention, but I grew up where
I grew up. When I was growing up, there was
we had to drive a long time to get to
these restaurants. That was part of the reason I was
kind of like why, but he really loved this one
in Cleveland, and it was it was you could tell
it was a place people came like they had their
regulars and they knew what the specials were every day,
(30:36):
and there was something about it that just felt like, oh,
i'd somebody. There was a quote I read somewhere that
was like, it feels like my grandmother's in the back cooking. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Yeah, yeah, And I like a lot of the things
that I read from people who opened one of these
however long ago, or who took over from from a
parent said but you know, they wanted to keep doing
it because they wanted to cook like their grandparents cooked,
and they wanted to keep that style of food alive.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, I do recommend what one of the little indie
places that I have been to a lot back when
our offices were in Pont City Market here in Atlanta
is a place across the street called Eats, which is
just lovely, lovely.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yes, And it's also a place that like people who
have been or like you get the cheer wine or
you have all these like specific right. Yeah, it was fun.
That's a good one. Yeah, But we would love to
hear from you listeners any thoughts about this, And as
we said, we were focusing on this specific style, but
(31:50):
we know it exists outside. Oh yeah, so anywhere right in? Yeah,
let us know, Oh please please please.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Meanwhile, I think that is all that we have to
say about Southern style cafeterias for now.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
It is, But that does bring us to listener mail.
We have already received.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
It does, and we are going to get into that
as soon as we get back from one more quick
break forward from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
And we're back.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
With listen lot. Oh, we didn't even talk about trey etiquette.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
That's sorry, that's my bad. That should have been in
the about section at the top. There there is deep
tray etiquette about, like like, you know, making sure how
you face yourself in the tray line next to other customers,
about how you jostle and handle your tray so that
(33:07):
you're not because it's usually on these little metal rails
and you don't want to jostle too hard so that
you make a bunch of noise. If you pass the
station and you decide you wanted something from there, I
think it's gone. I think you have to It's forward
only it's like any S games and you're Mario. You
have to keep going. There's no going back.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yeah. See can't you see why an anxious child we
view this as such a shore. Yeah? Yeah, I was
so nervous. My dad's having the time of his.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
Life anyway, Okay, Ramble wrote, Hi, all, Your Dorito's episode
brought to mind a wonderful karma memory.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
I had a truly a whole boss showed up to
an art opening. This was in the early nine and
he was wearing his new white suit. Oh no, he
was double fisting doritos and cheese curls and discovered there
were no napkins or public restrooms. After seeing that his
(34:13):
hands were orange and he was wearing a white suit,
he spent the rest of the opening with his hands
away from his body. I so enjoyed that. Thank you, Doritos. Wow,
a white suit.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
A lot of mistakes were made here.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yeah that's uh yeah, being a guy wearing a white
suit and double staying doritos and cheese and that is bold.
That is a number of bold choices to have made,
and it sounds like he really deserved it.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
So Also, it sounds like somebody might have set this up,
because if there are no napkins, somebody either was like,
I'm going to get some people, or it's like a
a mishap happened, something fell through the cracks. But I
don't know. Maybe this smith this was a setup. It
(35:12):
could be.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
It could be a total coincidence. It could be a
setup from the universe. You never know.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
I do think double fisting, like I would I get
like one if I had a fistful, But if I'm
going for both, that's really yeah, that is that's flying.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Right there. Yeah yeah, Oh the cheesy son. It's my
favorite son to fly too close too. Tracy wrote, I
just finished putting together and a low Ta pasta salad
(35:52):
as I wrote in about potato salad, and felt morally
obliged to write to you about pasta salad. I agree
with Lauren. As a pasta lover and a exture first person,
there is a lot that can go wrong with pasta salad.
The tip about overcooking the noodles is one hundred percent effective.
I suggest at least one minute beyond the box instructions,
here are a few other tricks to improve the pasta
(36:13):
salad experience. First, make the dressing in a large bowl
and pour the hot, freshly drained pasta into the dressing.
It will absorb the dressing, preserving flavor and improving texture.
Wants the pasta cools. This is best for vinegarette, but
with a mayo based dressing. Let the pasta cool for
a few minutes before adding it. Second, save some pasta water.
(36:34):
As with any good pasta dish, saving some of the
warm water filled with starch granules and adding it to
the pasta when tossing it in the sauce will help
thicken the sauce and with adherence to the noodles. I
do this with pasta salads too. When the pasta is
cooling and absorbing the dressing, it will help keep things smooth.
I don't know if there is a scientific reason why,
but I just applied the pasta logic and it worked,
(36:56):
so I kept doing it. Third, a minimum of four
hours in the fridge before serving is essential for flavor melding. Last,
if serving at a cookout, keep the salad in an
insulated bag or cooler on ice. No one wants a
warm snack or food poisoning, so keep it chilled. Side
note balsamic vinegar is a great topic suggestion. Apparently white
(37:19):
balsamic is not really balsamic in the dop definition yeast
poop and legal semantics. Sounds like a great episode to me.
Thank you for giving me an excuse to go through
my mom's recipes. It brought me a lot of joy,
as do all of your episodes. Wishing you and your
team well in these weird times. And Tracy also sent
in recipes for Greek pasta salad and tortellini pasta salad.
(37:42):
If anyone would like them, yes.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Just contact us. They sounded delicious and I do love
the tortellini pasta salad was just her mom's shorthand, and
I think it was for like one hundred and eighty people.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Oh my heck yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
And so she was like, here's how you cut.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
It down to, you know, a normal human size.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
But it was funny because there's a picture of it.
I was reading it like, I don't know what, I
don't understand. I can't comprehend.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Uh, it's too many tortellini, but.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
It's fantastic because my mom does that too. And I
read it, I'm like I think she.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, if you're only ever
making it for a whole cookout full of people, then
why would do you need it for a four person serving.
That's the ridiculous part.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
I think it was twelve packs of tortellini hoofda, it was.
It was it was the serious business.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
I'll say, all of this sounds like serious business, so
it does.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
I love the tips. Very professional makes sense to me.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
We've also heard other people about their their pasta salad
techniques and recipes, and there's just such a huge range
and I kind of adore it.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Oh yeah, it's yeah. As as I was saying in
that one, you know, like at a certain point I
was just listing foods that can go into anything. I
was like, I have I have to stop because otherwise
I'm just listing literally every food on the planet.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
But Super Producer Andrew chimed in with the caesar pasta salad.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yeah, yeah, with a good caesar dressing.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Sure I can see that. Also, Yes, I feel like
assamic vinegar is up there with olive oil in terms.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Of hey, i think we've been avoiding it.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Nerves that I think about it, but.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
I think I think that it would be a little
bit more contained there are a bunch of different varieties
that yeah but yeah absolutely when of one of my
favorite things on the planet, so tasty, so good.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Yeah ma too these poop and legal semantics you know
how win is over not know here here we are
on board. Well, Thank you so much to both of
those listeners to writing in. If you would like to try
to us, you can our emails hello at saborpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
We're also in social media. You can find us on
Blue Sky and Instagram at savre pod, and we do
hope to hear from you. Save is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
(40:47):
your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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