May 14, 2025 • 44 mins
These edible flowers are a tasty decoration used fresh or made into vibrant extracts – and they mess with your sense of smell, making the experience of them fleeting. Anney and Lauren dip into the history and weird science of violets.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Sabor production of iHeartRadio. I'm Anny Rees.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode
for you about violets.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes. I always love our flower episodes, even though they're
a little bit difficult to pin down.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Always uh huh. And there are so many poetical references
in this one that I stopped myself at a certain
point and was like, we're going to have to do
a bonus episode about this if we want to do this,
because there's too many poems about violets.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yes, And in fact, we were discussing before I had
an unfinished note in the outline hmmm, where I was
like poetry about violets through the time, and I never
finished it, and then because of DeLay's and a bunch
of various things, I forgot that I had it, and
then thought Lauren was going to finish the thought, and
(01:05):
I was very excited about it.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
And I had to be the buzzkill who today like
commented on the unfinished phrase like, Hey, my dude, like,
are you going to finish this thought?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Oh? No, I thought it was your thought, So no, okay,
we're all doing great. We are doing great. We're speaking of,
we are a little behind with this one, but there
was an idea behind.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
It, right, So Mother's Day as we are recording this
was this past Sunday, and I was like, hey, let's
do something nice for Mother's Day, maybe perhaps a flower,
and we somehow landed on violets. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty
(01:55):
much it. But yes, Mother's Day, Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
I'm actually meeting with my mom this weekend because the
weather was so bad. Oh yeah, so's it's timely in
that way.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, celebrate the mothers in your
life every day. For anyone who has a hard time
on a Mother's Day, I see you. And you know,
violets are still very nice.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Violets are still really nice. So for past episodes you
can see I would say rosewater, dandelion, lavender.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah we did that. I forgot about that.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Uh huh. Yes, I would never forget because I learned
that my lion trick doesn't work in that episode. Lions
are not deterred by lavender. Oh heck, I forgot about
that too. Here we are, thanks for reminding me. I've
got to live. I gotta know what I'm gonna do
if I face a lion lauren and also marigolds.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yes, yeah, yes, yes, such, yes, but that brings us
to our question. Sure, violets, what are they?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Well?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Violets are small flowers that are purple to white in color,
sometimes a little bit of both in patterns or gradients,
and have a scent that's sort of soft and sweet
and a little bit woody, like a gentle, powdery sort
of floral. The blossoms can be used whole as a
garnish in salads or desserts, or can be sugared and
(03:38):
eaten as a candy or used as a garnish for desserts.
The flavor and color come through well in extracts, which
are used to flavor jellies and candies, baked goods, creamy
desserts of various kinds, liqueurs. The plant's leaves are edible too,
and can be used as fresh or cooked greens. They're
a little bit bitter and vegetable and put off a
little bit of like slippy, thickening mucilage they're cooked. Yeah,
(04:02):
violets are just a treat, just real pretty to look at,
and their leaves are like a real pretty dark green,
and they're just small and they smell nice. And they
go well with a lot of other flavors, and they
kind of grow everywhere just on their own, whether you
want them to or not. They're just a little ground treat.
(04:23):
A ground treat, yeah, as opposed to as opposed to
a tree treat, which is different, Okay, botanically.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
The word violet is used confusingly for hundreds of flowers
in the wide genus Viola, which also includes things that
are not called violets that are also edible, like pansies. However,
often when you're talking about edible violets, you're talking about
Viola odorata, also called sweet violets or English violets, among
(04:59):
many other name or similar looking species like Viola sororia
also called common violet, which are typically less scented but
also quite edible. As far as I am personally aware
due to relatively brief research, don't take my word for it.
(05:19):
Flowers in the Viola genus are generally edible, but if
you're unsure of what you're dealing with, definitely consult a
field guide or local expert before you go foraging. Like
I've read that yellow colored violets can cause stomach upset
when eaten in large amounts. Know what you're growing and harvesting.
For example, some things that are called violets, like African violets,
(05:42):
are in a different genus and are not okay to eat.
The leaves in particular, can resemble other plants that you
should not eat. Always look stuff up if you are
not sure. As social media personality, the black forager would
say happy snacking, don't die, Yes.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Don't good advice, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Viola odorata grow close to the ground, usually only a
few inches tall, maybe like four inches or ten centimeters.
Viola sororia can be about twice as tall as that,
still not big. In both, the leaves are this like
cute heart shape or kind of like a rounded fan shape,
and are a little bit shiny. Underground, the plants grow
rhizomes and true roots off of those, and the plants
(06:26):
can spread in a few different ways via above ground shoots,
or from self fertilized underground near ground flower buds, or
from the seeds that pollinated flowers will produce, assuming you
don't eat the flowers first. The seeds are contained within
the plant's fruit, which is basically this like hard oval
shaped seed pod that will split open into three sections.
(06:49):
Shooting the seeds up and away when they're fully developed.
A little bit stranger things, ask still pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Yeah, that sounds pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Oh and speaking of those seeds, So this isn't strictly
food related, but I learned a new thing today. Okay,
some seeds, these seeds included, have like a little fleshy
structure attached to the outside that will contain some fats
and some proteins, and ants love them. Ants will take
(07:21):
seeds with this feature. It's called an alaisome. I think
I'm saying that right. They'll take it. They'll take these
seeds back to their nest and give them to their
developing larvae. The larvae eat the elaisome, but leave the
seed intact, which the worker ants will then take out
of their nest to their waste disposal area, which is
a thing that ant colonies have, and they'll leave it there.
(07:42):
And ant waste sites are rich in nutrients, so the
seeds will germinate and grow into a new plant. This
is a whole type of symbiotic relationship known as burmacoccary
that apparently has evolved independently in all kinds of different
flowering plants. I love this. I love this nature is
(08:05):
so weird. Mrma Coachery if you're wondering, essentially means circular
ant dance in Greek.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Okay, I like that. I like both the words mcrockery
and the image of ants dancing in a circle. Yeah. Yeah, man.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Anyway, having all of these contingent plans for reproduction is
why violets can be really pesky in a grass lawn
if you're trying to keep it perfect. On a related note,
I can't tell you what to do, and I understand
that perfect grass lawns are like really pretty, but consider
(08:50):
killing your lawn and replacing it with native plants.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, that's of my dad. He called it a naturally
ard Yeah. I put that in quotes because he said
it with such a specifics.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
But you're not doubting. You're not doubting the naturalness or
the yardness. You're saying it was specifically a natural yar.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yes, it was like, yeah, what he called it?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, okay, And anyway, anyway, those flowers on violets will
bloom in the early spring. They have five petals arranged
into a group of three, forming a sort of cup
for nectar on the bottom, and then another group of two.
On the top, they'll often have a bit of white
(09:40):
towards the center of the petals and a little spot
of yellow, but otherwise the petals can range in any
shade of purple to white to pink. And yeah, they
have this like delicate, powdery sweet sort of scent and flavor,
which is extra interesting because it messes with your nervous
system just a little so that it appears to come
(10:03):
and go.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
This is because one of the scent compounds in violets
is something called ionine, which a smells a floral powdery
and b temporarily blocks you from smelling anything once you've
smelled a certain amount of it. This is also so cool.
(10:26):
I learned two things today, all right, So okay, let's
back up a second. The way that you smell things
is that let's say that a pizza just came out
of the oven, and the hot bread and sauce and
cheese are all putting off scent compounds into the air.
As you breathe in air, some of those scent molecules
(10:49):
will enter your airways and bind to nerve endings called
olfactory receptors and activate those receptors, thus sending a message
to your brain that you're smelling the cheese or the
bread or the sauce, and okay, when a compound activates
a nerve receptor, that compound is called an agonist. But
(11:11):
some molecules can also bind to olfactory nerve receptors and
not send a signal, and furthermore block other molecules from
attaching and potentially signaling, and these compounds are called antagonists.
An Ionine can act as both. So so you smell
it for a little bit, and then it inhibits your
(11:33):
ability to smell for a little bit, and then after
a few breaths or minutes or whatever, it stops blocking
those receptors.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
And you can smell it.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Anew. I did not know that compounds could be both.
I didn't know that this is This is awesome.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
It is very cool. And when I read it, the
first thing I thought was have there been murder mysteries
where this was used? I'm just curious. That is very neat,
it's really difficul it's really cool.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I mean potentially, yeah, it was that there was a
certain period of time when violets were used as a
funerary flower, partially because of this capacity to block your
olfactory sense, because if you're hanging out around a dead body,
you might not want to smell it for a minute. There,
you know.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yes, and so many times with these flower episodes, I
just want to talk about the old language of flowers.
But we have to remind ourselves we're a food show.
But I do know part of the reason violets essentially
got for a while got put in into the same
(12:49):
pin of like melancholy, it was because of this. It
was like when you forget something and then it comes back. Yeah,
forget it and then it wow.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Okay, So speaking of yeah, ostensibly a food show, all right,
you can candy the flowers. You can dip them in
something sticky like egg white or aquafaba, and then dip
them in sugar like granulated sugar and then let them dry. Also,
in addition to being a nice flavor, the extract is
really pretty. It's like you can get a really good,
(13:26):
deep violet color off of it. And it turns out
that the pigment that makes violets violet is pH reactive,
meaning that it changes colors based on how acidic or basic.
That the solution that it's in itself is so in
a neutral PhD water or alcohol or sugar syrup situation,
it's going to be like like green to blue, and
(13:49):
then if you add an acid like lemon juice, it'll
turn like purple to pink, similar with litmus paper. Yeah,
and this means that you can have a lot of
fun with cocktails and other like decorative kitchen projects. M
also of violet liqueurs. You could make your own at home,
(14:09):
but there are several that are made commercially, often called
by the French term crem devillt. It's not creamy here.
Crem indicates an extraction. I believe I didn't double check that,
but I feel good about it, which means I'm probably
wrong fact checking for another date. At any rate. Creme
de villa is an element of the classic cocktail that aviation,
(14:31):
which is gin lemon juice, marachino licur and violet liqueur.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
So good.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
That is one of my That is just one of
my favorite all time cocktails, just so nice. If you
do start experimenting with the bottle of violet liqueur, use
it sparingly at first. The floralness can pack more of
a punch than you think. Yeah, yes, yeah, I've not
personally worked with the greens though, I did go outside
(15:01):
and like eat a few leaves while I was writing
this outline, are just violet violet leaves annie specificity. I
checked to make sure that the seed pods were the
type of seed pods that violets have, as the flowers
are not in bloom right now, so again safe foraging.
(15:25):
They were just gonna. They were a little bit bitter
and vegetable. I don't know, but yeah, I understand that
they're best when they're young and tender in the spring,
but are fine when they're cooked. When they're a little
bit older and tougher. People recommend cooking them in general.
Apparently sound folks are sensitive to them when they're raw. Okay,
further test, Oh yeah, yeah, are needed? Yes, Well what
(15:47):
about the nutrition? You know, plants in general are good
for you. You know, they've got fiber and micronutrients, stuff
like that. Different types of violets have been used in
traditional medicines in various culture around the world, often for
cough related ailments, and research about that is happening. But
you know, say ra motto before you bodies are complicated.
(16:10):
More research is necessary before ingesting a medicinal amount of anything.
You should consult a healthcare provider who is not us.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Definitely not nobors. Well, we do have some numbers for you,
we do, all right.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Viola is one of the widest genera of flowering plants,
containing some four hundred to seven hundred species, depending on
who you ask. These range from the herbal types that
we've been talking about, to like small shrub types in
the Hawaiian Islands to succulent types in the Andes. Fascinating,
(16:52):
but like, yeah, like the list of places that violets
are native to is way longer than the list of
places that they're not. Somehow, like Western af Africa, eastern
South America, and western Australia didn't get any other than that.
I like, like they've been introduced to most of the Caribbean.
They're just really widespread, And even within those hundreds of species,
(17:14):
there can be a lot of different varieties that are
bred for center color or whatever. Speaking a little bit
more broadly, the global market for packaged edible flowers is
expected to hit three hundred and eighty million dollars a
year by twenty twenty six. Vola species I keep going
back and forth between viola and viola. I think I'm
(17:35):
sorry I'm not going to stop because I can't remember
which one it is and those ab things it is
on off one zero. I have no idea. It could
be anyon so.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
You're a robot, yes, not when a vampire got it.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
They're probably pretty close anyway. Anyway, species in this genus
are considered a profitable segment of that fresh packaged market,
though not as profitable as marigolds, those tricksy marigolds. The
(18:14):
market for violet extract is worth over two hundred million
dollars a year. The natural extract is now outpacing the
market for the synthetic extract, which is impressive because for
a long time synthetic was kind of the thing it's
It's apparently one of the earlier types of synthetic florals
because of ironine being relatively easily discovered, but I couldn't
(18:39):
find an exact date on that, so I'm not going
to mention it in the history section. But here we
are more. Violet extract goes into cosmetics and like personal
care products than the food and beverage industry, but not
by a whole lot. And there are some violet festivals
in France, there's one in Provence, in this village near
(19:04):
the Mediterranean coast, in between like can and Monaco. As
of twenty twenty five, it was in its seventy eighth year.
There's a parade of floats made with real and paper flowers,
and music and dancing and all kinds of food and
drinks and products for sale made with violence. Oh, listeners,
(19:24):
if you've been, Oh, I found photos. It looks gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
You must let us know. Yes, yes, yes, yes, please yes,
because honestly, a lot of are ostensibly a feud show.
A lot of our history doesn't necessarily involve food, but plenty,
we've got nuggets of it there. Yeah, yes, So we
(19:50):
will get into that after a quick break from award
from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes,
thank you. Okay. So different types of violets originated in
(20:11):
different places around.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
The world, mostly in temperate parts of the Northern Hemisphere.
But again there's a lot of violets. For the two
that we've been mostly talking about today. V Odorata is
from areas around the Mediterranean and V. Sororia is North American.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, yep. Violets do have a long history of being
prized in certain cultures. For a variety of things. The
ancient Greeks used violets to flavor wines or honey, and
violets are mentioned in the first century CE cookbook Out
of Ancient Rome. The Epicus talked about that a lot before.
(20:52):
The indigenous peoples in North America used all parts of
the violet culinarily and medicinally.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
I read that and some a Jibwe traditions. During like
fluffy springtime snows, they would harvest violets and then steep
them overnight in birch bark containers, and then the next
day use the cooled colorful tea or extract to top
fresh snow with as a treat.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Well, that sounds nice, right, and like you said, it
is very pretty. It can be very striking, so yeah,
oh yeah, kind of speaking of. During the Medieval and
Renaissance periods in Europe's violets were sometimes used in art
to depict purity and innocence. The flowers themselves were dried
(21:40):
in preparation of winter to use in the cold months.
The leaves were also eaten. On top of that, the
petals were sometimes used for decorations on things like cakes,
which again I can just see how visually that would
be a nice, nice little thing. In seventeenth century Culpeper's
(22:02):
herbal included an entry on violets. It described many medicinal
uses for the plant, but also culinary applications, particularly with
violet syrup and in liqueurs. And this is just a
brief aside. I think this is where I got caught
up in the whole poetry thing and never finished my
complete thought. But here we go, and stick with me.
(22:28):
In celebration of Elizabeth, the first poet, Edmund Spencer wrote
The Fairy Queen in fifteen ninety and here's a sample
from that. She'd bathe with roses red and violet's blue,
and all the sweetest flowers that in the forest grew.
And if that sounds familiar, it's really stuck around. About
(22:50):
two centuries later, poet Joseph Johnson wrote the Roses read
the Violet's blue, the honey sweet, and so are you.
In eighteen sixty two, Victor Hugo included this in his
play Leis Miserbla. Violets are blue, Roses are red, Violets
(23:11):
are blue. I Love My Loves, which I actually haven't
seen that play, but I was reading it about it
for this research, and I'm to understand that we've largely
misinterpreted as a society.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
I've not so I'm personally not familiar with Lima's rob
I with neither the musical nor the book. Nothing about
it is familiar to me. But I looked this one up.
It's part of a song sung by Fantine. That's all
I got for you. I would have to look further
(23:49):
into it, which I did not do in preparation for
this episode. Well, I know people are fans, so please
write in, Oh, I know people are fans.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Oh yes. According to what I read, though, it was
kind of like it wasn't the It doesn't have the
vibe we say when we say like roses are red,
violets are blue. It was much more kind of like
things are how they are, and that's just it.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
But well, if you can imagine from a piece of
media titled miserab things are going poorly.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Well, all right, listeners were counting on you. We could
have looked it up, and we were. We skewed it
because we're a food show. But here's another note that's
not food related. Interestingly, thousands of years ago, poets sappho
of lesbos out of ancient Greek who is a lesbian
(24:52):
icon of history, wrote you put on many wreaths of
violets and roses together by my side, and round your
tender neck put many woven garlands made from flowers.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
So yeah, being being written about in a romantic poetic
way for millennia. Violets did also figure into an ancient
Greek myth about io When she was a human and
when Zeus fell for her because he was irrepressibly a
(25:26):
philander philanderer, she got turned into a cow and violets
were created for her to eat. The It's the myths
are unclear on who turned her into the cow, who
turned her into the cow, and who gave her the violets,
but that's the gist of the concept.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
So many of these myths revolve around, well, we turned
her into x y Z animal. That's just it. Okay, Yep,
just happens sometimes. Yep, it does, it does. Going back
to a point I made earlier, at least since the
sixteen hundreds, we see this recurring theme of the violent
(26:07):
scent being described as melancholy or sad, as well as
in terms of music. Some speculate this is because of
the violet's unique fragrance properties that cause humans to experience
it and burst like something fading away only to return
again later. I think that's so cool.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
That's so interesting, it really is.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I love that it got incorporated into art, even though
people might not have necessarily understood.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, but they were like, this is a weird thing. Yeah,
let's be metaphorical about that. Cool.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yes, which brings us to Shakespeare. Shakespeare was a big
fan of violets. Shakespeare's early sixteen hundred play Twelfth Night
references them quote, oh it came so over my ear,
like the sweet sound that breathes upon a bank of violets,
stealing and giving odor. Enough, no more, tis not so
(27:07):
sweet as it was before, which is the thing, like, yeah,
stealing and giving odor.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, yeah, he wrote. Shakespeare wrote about violets a lot.
That was the point at which I had to stop
myself and go, like, this is a different episode. The
Shakespeare references alone are a different episode, let alone anything else.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah, I think that's where I got. This whole section
got me stuck, because we do love learning about that
kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Oh yeah, it's super fascinating and I'm a big Shakespeare nerd. Anyway,
and okay, so but yes.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, just know if you're interested, there's a lot of
material out there for you.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
There is, and we may revisit it later.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
We may. Napoleon and Empress Josephine's favorite flower was reportedly
the European violet. Allegedly, he would give Josephine a bouquet
of them every year on their wedding anniversary. Even after
he divorced and died, he was buried with the locket
of her hair and some violets. Corn Twitter read Napoleon's
(28:23):
second wife, Mary Louise, liked violets too, so they were
very popular in France. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
I read that those violets that he was buried with
he had plucked from her grave.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Ooh yeah, that's some emo.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Okay, that's like Mary Shelley level emo. Yes, I adore it.
Right Around this time, in the seventeen to eighteen hundreds,
there are records of color changing ink being made from
violet juice as a sort of parlor trick in France
and England. So like going back to that color changing
property of acid versus base, right, Like if you paint
(28:58):
a piece of paper with a clear acid on one
bit and a clear base on another, something like lemon
juice on one part and like baking soda and water
on another part. Or you know you would have used
potash at the time, but sure, And then you write
or draw over both sections of the paper using violet
(29:18):
juice as your ink. You'll get reds on the acid
part and then greens on the base part.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
That is so cool. You told me when you suggest
this topic. You were like, it's going to be a
lot of different avenues and you were crooks.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Oh it is it is speaking of in England, violets
had around this time, Ish gained an association with like
shy feminine modesty, you know, the shrinking violet, possibly because
of that scent thing, or possibly because the plants kind
of like hide amongst other greenery.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yes, and violets were very popular during Victorian and Edwardian
times in Europe, largely as a cut flower. During this time,
they were really sought after for their beauty and their perfume.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Both to wear on a pin or buttonhole or as
a perfume or to eat as a breath freshener and
a flavor of retreats.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yes. In France, there was a push to breed varieties
that were more fragrant and have longer stems. A lot
of different varieties were described in French sources beginning around
the end of the eighteen hundreds, so they were really
pushing this. This is also when violets got incorporated into
all kinds of things in France, candied violets, violet syrup,
(30:47):
violet perfumes, and ice cream. They were just looking to
add it to anything. Chocolates with violet cream and topped
with violets were popular in England at this time too,
and yes, crim de violets brandy with added sugars and
steeped in violets, has been around since at least the
nineteenth century. It was typically served with something like vermouse
(31:11):
until the Aviation cocktail, which was allegedly invented in nineteen
sixteen separate episode. After a major producer closed their doors
in the sixties, this product, krim de violet, almost faded
away until the two thousands. Towards the end of the
(31:31):
eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds, the Hudson Valley in New
York was facing this sharp economic downturn. Greenhouses owned by
the wealthy weren't being maintained, and then a britishman named
William Saltford got the idea to use these greenhouses to
launch commercial industry around growing violets. His gambit paid off
(31:56):
as violets became popular in fashion and in nearby cities,
and that area was dubbed the violet Capital of the world.
This all changed in the twenties and thirties with the
fungal outbreak and the Great Depression.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Huh. Meanwhile, there was a resurgence of violets as a
sapphic symbol in the nineteen twenties due to this stage
play called The Captive that was about lesbians and in
this one scene, the lady characters exchanged oukats of violets.
(32:38):
Supporters of the show in Paris took to wearing violets.
But the play caused such a stir in New York
that it got shut down by the police and apparently
might have tanked the American violet floral industry.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
It's both sad and hilarious, as both people look me
up to come on, man, these flowers are gay.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Oh no, now that you mentioned that other thing about
the about the Hudson Valley and the fungal outbreak. I
suspect that was more the issue, but.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
They probably dumptailed a little bit. But yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Harper's Bizarre at the time was definitely like, oh yes,
this gay play to the bane of violet growers everywhere ruined.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Uh well, sweet violet production in England peaked in the
nineteen thirties but then kind of went downhill.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, I think that there were a few weather events
around Europe that made growing kind of difficult, starting like
like around mid century. But speaking of mid century, there
were a couple of different tablet style candies that were
popular in the US and the UK around the mid
nineteen hundreds that had violet flavoring, Parma violets and showereds violet.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
I'm so glad you included that note, because I kept
running into Parma violets and I couldn't couldn't quite figure out.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Oh yeah, just a real popular candy. But also a
variety of violets that originally came from Italy that became
very popular in coastal France. Especially if you start looking
up like specific varietals that were developed around that area,
you start hearing a lot about Parma violets.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Yes, it was the first thing that came up in
all my search results, and I was taken aback. So
this is one of those episodes where we have talked
a lot about non food stuff. I would say violets
have seen a bit of a resurgence in the culinary world,
at least in the US, especially when comes to cocktails
(35:01):
or as a garnish for drinks or salads.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Absolutely. I think all of the like fancy restaurants that
I've gone to anytime within the past like five years,
have had at some point a pretentious violet garnish.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
On the plate. Yeah. That feels about It's kind of
sad because you know that they have so much more potential.
But I do feel like we're when it comes to
edible flowers, a lot of times we still use it
as like a garnish or a nice a fancy.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Salad, right right, Yeah, and like not particularly meant to
be appreciated for the scent or even even to eat maybe,
but yeah, but yeah, that resurgence I think was partially
spurred by the Kraft cocktail movement of the early two thousands,
because one of those drinks that just suddenly surged onto
(35:56):
menus everywhere along with a few other classic was the aviation,
So people were like, oh, what's this crime to be
let thing?
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Let's go. Yeah, and as mentioned, it's a very striking cocktail.
It looks pretty. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
No, that purple color is nice, it's pretty.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
It's very pretty. But listeners, if you have more experience
with eating violets or drinking violets in anyway, please let
us know. I'm so interested to hear.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Oh, yes, yes, if you have a favorite bit of
violet related poetry, let us.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Know any poetry.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Oh yeah, yeah, if you have any good food related poetry. Yeah,
but yes, that is what we have to say about
violets for now. We do already have some listener mail
for you, though, and we are going to get into
that as soon as we get back from one more
quick break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, And
we're back with since is gone now but perhaps we'll
come back. I love that. I think that's my favorite
(37:27):
fact of this episode. That is so interesting to me.
That ant thing is pretty cool is cool too.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
But but the but I'm also I'm also a little
bit partial to ant facts.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yes, that makes sense to me. I spent a lot
of time playing some aunt as a child. Ah, yes,
I did know this about you. Yes, okay, well I'm
glad we got to have an ant yes for this episode.
Yes all right. Well, as mentioned, a lot of you
(38:06):
have written in about Krispy Kreme. Please keep those messages coming.
You're loving them. So Joe wrote, Krispy Kreme was always
a treat when I was growing up because the nearest
city with the shop was forty minutes away. If friends
were in that city, they'd bring as a box and
vice versa. Buying four or five dozen was just normal
(38:29):
because of the distance. That scarcity was why Krispy kreame
fundraisers were always so successful. When I was a kid,
everyone was willing to buy a boxer two. Nowadays, my
hometown still doesn't have a dedicated store, though there are
some grocery stores that carry it. It's just not the same,
especially when they're hot. My hometown makes up for it
(38:53):
by having a number of really great local donut shops.
The craving is so real. Dunkin Donuts is far more
ubiquitous up here. It seems like you can't turn around
without tripping over one. But the nearest Krispy Cream is
in the suburbs time to make a special trip.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Yes, it's different things. It's different things.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
It is different things. But I would say, like in
my experience Dunkin Donuts is I guess I can counter
Dunkin Donuts mostly when I'm traveling and there's always a
Dunkin Donuts. There's always an airport or in the airport. Yeah,
going back to that point we made about them kind
of prioritizing the like you're on the go getting.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
And having like breakfast sandwiches and more coffee options stuff
like that.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah. Yeah, but this is this is an interesting take.
I mean, forty minutes away from a Krispy Cream. That's
a little hard for me to envision as well, because
I've got so many.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Crispy Creams around.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Yeah, the South is the South is where they're from.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
But but yeah, no, I mean like no, I mean,
if you're going you might as and you're and you're
traveling with them, you might as well get a few dozens.
Why not? This only makes logical sense.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
That's a funny thing about donuts, is I feel like
that donut logic always happens. It's like I might as well,
get a dozen.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
I mean why not?
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Why not? I got friends, they'll eat some.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah, if you're getting one dozen, you might as well
get too. I mean, what are you doing exactly?
Speaker 1 (40:37):
It's just smart. You're just thinking, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
You're one of the early times that I started, so
I was thinking about starting a food show when we
went to Austin together along with a number of our
other coworkers for south By Southwest. And one of the
things that made me go, like, what about Annie, you
should be on a food show was when you you
(41:04):
had a tip that if you showed up between shift
changes at Voodoo Donuts, they'll give you a bucket of donuts,
like a bucket, like a five gallon bucket of donuts,
and they'll basically just give it to you. Yeah, And
I was like, Annie knows, what's up?
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Like this is great, we need this.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
So we got a bucket of donuts because of course
we did. Of course, I was lovely. It was lovely.
It was that was a good time. We had a
good time. Yeah, yeah, what a weird but lovely trip. Yes, indeed, Carrie.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Wrote hello and thank you for yet another episode full
of nostalgia for me. Have you done an episode on
Lance sandwich crackers. We call them nabs. If you do that,
I may very well travel back in time. For me,
Krispy Kreme and church go together like well donuts and coffee.
Here in North Carolina, you can never go wrong bringing
a dozen glazed to church. You won't have any leftovers either.
(42:04):
Decades ago, someone had the idea to provide Sunday school
students with SODA's and Krispy Kreme right before classes began.
That didn't last long, as the kids threw themselves at
the snack table and got all sugared up before having
to sit still for forty five minutes. My parents would
very occasionally drive by Krispy Cream on the way home
from church just to see if they had hot donuts,
(42:24):
and of course it would be a shame not to
stop in while those donuts were hot, but most of
the time we took a different route home from church.
My favorites are the original Glazed and the crueler Ah memories.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
This is so interesting that you wrote in about this
because I used to. I struggled to sit through church
as a kid, and my parents would offer me a
donut after.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Oh the marshmallow test.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Yeah, yeah, like.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
You can have this thing later if you really behave
yourself right now.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Yes, yes, so I can't imagine if i'd have the
donut before.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Oh no, no that point. Yeah, you're hyped up. You've
had a treat. No, no, that's not gonna work out. Well, no,
but they are. I mean again, you get a dozen donuts.
It's great for an event. It's easy, and people love them.
(43:31):
People love them.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
They bring joy and it.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Would be a shame not to stop while the donuts
are hot.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
That's how they get you. You can't not stop if
the hot signs on.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
I just drive responsibly.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
Yes, look before you turn.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Now. I'm wondering how many people in Atlanta have like
a near death Krispy Kream related experience.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
I think the number is probably pretty high, to be honest,
I suspect so as well. Wow, listeners, if you've had
a dangerous encounter with Krispy Kreme or any Krispy Creame stories,
we would love to hear from you. You can email
us at hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
We are also on social media. You can find us
on blue Sky and Instagram at savor pod, and we
do hope to hear from you savor is production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
(44:42):
your way.
Hello, and welcome to Sabor production of iHeartRadio. I'm Anny Rees.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode
for you about violets.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes. I always love our flower episodes, even though they're
a little bit difficult to pin down.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Always uh huh. And there are so many poetical references
in this one that I stopped myself at a certain
point and was like, we're going to have to do
a bonus episode about this if we want to do this,
because there's too many poems about violets.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yes, And in fact, we were discussing before I had
an unfinished note in the outline hmmm, where I was
like poetry about violets through the time, and I never
finished it, and then because of DeLay's and a bunch
of various things, I forgot that I had it, and
then thought Lauren was going to finish the thought, and
(01:05):
I was very excited about it.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
And I had to be the buzzkill who today like
commented on the unfinished phrase like, Hey, my dude, like,
are you going to finish this thought?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Oh? No, I thought it was your thought, So no, okay,
we're all doing great. We are doing great. We're speaking of,
we are a little behind with this one, but there
was an idea behind.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
It, right, So Mother's Day as we are recording this
was this past Sunday, and I was like, hey, let's
do something nice for Mother's Day, maybe perhaps a flower,
and we somehow landed on violets. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty
(01:55):
much it. But yes, Mother's Day, Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
I'm actually meeting with my mom this weekend because the
weather was so bad. Oh yeah, so's it's timely in
that way.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, celebrate the mothers in your
life every day. For anyone who has a hard time
on a Mother's Day, I see you. And you know,
violets are still very nice.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Violets are still really nice. So for past episodes you
can see I would say rosewater, dandelion, lavender.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah we did that. I forgot about that.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Uh huh. Yes, I would never forget because I learned
that my lion trick doesn't work in that episode. Lions
are not deterred by lavender. Oh heck, I forgot about
that too. Here we are, thanks for reminding me. I've
got to live. I gotta know what I'm gonna do
if I face a lion lauren and also marigolds.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yes, yeah, yes, yes, such, yes, but that brings us
to our question. Sure, violets, what are they?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Well?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Violets are small flowers that are purple to white in color,
sometimes a little bit of both in patterns or gradients,
and have a scent that's sort of soft and sweet
and a little bit woody, like a gentle, powdery sort
of floral. The blossoms can be used whole as a
garnish in salads or desserts, or can be sugared and
(03:38):
eaten as a candy or used as a garnish for desserts.
The flavor and color come through well in extracts, which
are used to flavor jellies and candies, baked goods, creamy
desserts of various kinds, liqueurs. The plant's leaves are edible too,
and can be used as fresh or cooked greens. They're
a little bit bitter and vegetable and put off a
little bit of like slippy, thickening mucilage they're cooked. Yeah,
(04:02):
violets are just a treat, just real pretty to look at,
and their leaves are like a real pretty dark green,
and they're just small and they smell nice. And they
go well with a lot of other flavors, and they
kind of grow everywhere just on their own, whether you
want them to or not. They're just a little ground treat.
(04:23):
A ground treat, yeah, as opposed to as opposed to
a tree treat, which is different, Okay, botanically.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
The word violet is used confusingly for hundreds of flowers
in the wide genus Viola, which also includes things that
are not called violets that are also edible, like pansies. However,
often when you're talking about edible violets, you're talking about
Viola odorata, also called sweet violets or English violets, among
(04:59):
many other name or similar looking species like Viola sororia
also called common violet, which are typically less scented but
also quite edible. As far as I am personally aware
due to relatively brief research, don't take my word for it.
(05:19):
Flowers in the Viola genus are generally edible, but if
you're unsure of what you're dealing with, definitely consult a
field guide or local expert before you go foraging. Like
I've read that yellow colored violets can cause stomach upset
when eaten in large amounts. Know what you're growing and harvesting.
For example, some things that are called violets, like African violets,
(05:42):
are in a different genus and are not okay to eat.
The leaves in particular, can resemble other plants that you
should not eat. Always look stuff up if you are
not sure. As social media personality, the black forager would
say happy snacking, don't die, Yes.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Don't good advice, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Viola odorata grow close to the ground, usually only a
few inches tall, maybe like four inches or ten centimeters.
Viola sororia can be about twice as tall as that,
still not big. In both, the leaves are this like
cute heart shape or kind of like a rounded fan shape,
and are a little bit shiny. Underground, the plants grow
rhizomes and true roots off of those, and the plants
(06:26):
can spread in a few different ways via above ground shoots,
or from self fertilized underground near ground flower buds, or
from the seeds that pollinated flowers will produce, assuming you
don't eat the flowers first. The seeds are contained within
the plant's fruit, which is basically this like hard oval
shaped seed pod that will split open into three sections.
(06:49):
Shooting the seeds up and away when they're fully developed.
A little bit stranger things, ask still pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Yeah, that sounds pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Oh and speaking of those seeds, So this isn't strictly
food related, but I learned a new thing today. Okay,
some seeds, these seeds included, have like a little fleshy
structure attached to the outside that will contain some fats
and some proteins, and ants love them. Ants will take
(07:21):
seeds with this feature. It's called an alaisome. I think
I'm saying that right. They'll take it. They'll take these
seeds back to their nest and give them to their
developing larvae. The larvae eat the elaisome, but leave the
seed intact, which the worker ants will then take out
of their nest to their waste disposal area, which is
a thing that ant colonies have, and they'll leave it there.
(07:42):
And ant waste sites are rich in nutrients, so the
seeds will germinate and grow into a new plant. This
is a whole type of symbiotic relationship known as burmacoccary
that apparently has evolved independently in all kinds of different
flowering plants. I love this. I love this nature is
(08:05):
so weird. Mrma Coachery if you're wondering, essentially means circular
ant dance in Greek.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Okay, I like that. I like both the words mcrockery
and the image of ants dancing in a circle. Yeah. Yeah, man.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Anyway, having all of these contingent plans for reproduction is
why violets can be really pesky in a grass lawn
if you're trying to keep it perfect. On a related note,
I can't tell you what to do, and I understand
that perfect grass lawns are like really pretty, but consider
(08:50):
killing your lawn and replacing it with native plants.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, that's of my dad. He called it a naturally
ard Yeah. I put that in quotes because he said
it with such a specifics.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
But you're not doubting. You're not doubting the naturalness or
the yardness. You're saying it was specifically a natural yar.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yes, it was like, yeah, what he called it?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, okay, And anyway, anyway, those flowers on violets will
bloom in the early spring. They have five petals arranged
into a group of three, forming a sort of cup
for nectar on the bottom, and then another group of two.
On the top, they'll often have a bit of white
(09:40):
towards the center of the petals and a little spot
of yellow, but otherwise the petals can range in any
shade of purple to white to pink. And yeah, they
have this like delicate, powdery sweet sort of scent and flavor,
which is extra interesting because it messes with your nervous
system just a little so that it appears to come
(10:03):
and go.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
This is because one of the scent compounds in violets
is something called ionine, which a smells a floral powdery
and b temporarily blocks you from smelling anything once you've
smelled a certain amount of it. This is also so cool.
(10:26):
I learned two things today, all right, So okay, let's
back up a second. The way that you smell things
is that let's say that a pizza just came out
of the oven, and the hot bread and sauce and
cheese are all putting off scent compounds into the air.
As you breathe in air, some of those scent molecules
(10:49):
will enter your airways and bind to nerve endings called
olfactory receptors and activate those receptors, thus sending a message
to your brain that you're smelling the cheese or the
bread or the sauce, and okay, when a compound activates
a nerve receptor, that compound is called an agonist. But
(11:11):
some molecules can also bind to olfactory nerve receptors and
not send a signal, and furthermore block other molecules from
attaching and potentially signaling, and these compounds are called antagonists.
An Ionine can act as both. So so you smell
it for a little bit, and then it inhibits your
(11:33):
ability to smell for a little bit, and then after
a few breaths or minutes or whatever, it stops blocking
those receptors.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
And you can smell it.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Anew. I did not know that compounds could be both.
I didn't know that this is This is awesome.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
It is very cool. And when I read it, the
first thing I thought was have there been murder mysteries
where this was used? I'm just curious. That is very neat,
it's really difficul it's really cool.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I mean potentially, yeah, it was that there was a
certain period of time when violets were used as a
funerary flower, partially because of this capacity to block your
olfactory sense, because if you're hanging out around a dead body,
you might not want to smell it for a minute. There,
you know.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yes, and so many times with these flower episodes, I
just want to talk about the old language of flowers.
But we have to remind ourselves we're a food show.
But I do know part of the reason violets essentially
got for a while got put in into the same
(12:49):
pin of like melancholy, it was because of this. It
was like when you forget something and then it comes back. Yeah,
forget it and then it wow.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Okay, So speaking of yeah, ostensibly a food show, all right,
you can candy the flowers. You can dip them in
something sticky like egg white or aquafaba, and then dip
them in sugar like granulated sugar and then let them dry. Also,
in addition to being a nice flavor, the extract is
really pretty. It's like you can get a really good,
(13:26):
deep violet color off of it. And it turns out
that the pigment that makes violets violet is pH reactive,
meaning that it changes colors based on how acidic or basic.
That the solution that it's in itself is so in
a neutral PhD water or alcohol or sugar syrup situation,
it's going to be like like green to blue, and
(13:49):
then if you add an acid like lemon juice, it'll
turn like purple to pink, similar with litmus paper. Yeah,
and this means that you can have a lot of
fun with cocktails and other like decorative kitchen projects. M
also of violet liqueurs. You could make your own at home,
(14:09):
but there are several that are made commercially, often called
by the French term crem devillt. It's not creamy here.
Crem indicates an extraction. I believe I didn't double check that,
but I feel good about it, which means I'm probably
wrong fact checking for another date. At any rate. Creme
de villa is an element of the classic cocktail that aviation,
(14:31):
which is gin lemon juice, marachino licur and violet liqueur.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
So good.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
That is one of my That is just one of
my favorite all time cocktails, just so nice. If you
do start experimenting with the bottle of violet liqueur, use
it sparingly at first. The floralness can pack more of
a punch than you think. Yeah, yes, yeah, I've not
personally worked with the greens though, I did go outside
(15:01):
and like eat a few leaves while I was writing
this outline, are just violet violet leaves annie specificity. I
checked to make sure that the seed pods were the
type of seed pods that violets have, as the flowers
are not in bloom right now, so again safe foraging.
(15:25):
They were just gonna. They were a little bit bitter
and vegetable. I don't know, but yeah, I understand that
they're best when they're young and tender in the spring,
but are fine when they're cooked. When they're a little
bit older and tougher. People recommend cooking them in general.
Apparently sound folks are sensitive to them when they're raw. Okay,
further test, Oh yeah, yeah, are needed? Yes, Well what
(15:47):
about the nutrition? You know, plants in general are good
for you. You know, they've got fiber and micronutrients, stuff
like that. Different types of violets have been used in
traditional medicines in various culture around the world, often for
cough related ailments, and research about that is happening. But
you know, say ra motto before you bodies are complicated.
(16:10):
More research is necessary before ingesting a medicinal amount of anything.
You should consult a healthcare provider who is not us.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Definitely not nobors. Well, we do have some numbers for you,
we do, all right.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Viola is one of the widest genera of flowering plants,
containing some four hundred to seven hundred species, depending on
who you ask. These range from the herbal types that
we've been talking about, to like small shrub types in
the Hawaiian Islands to succulent types in the Andes. Fascinating,
(16:52):
but like, yeah, like the list of places that violets
are native to is way longer than the list of
places that they're not. Somehow, like Western af Africa, eastern
South America, and western Australia didn't get any other than that.
I like, like they've been introduced to most of the Caribbean.
They're just really widespread, And even within those hundreds of species,
(17:14):
there can be a lot of different varieties that are
bred for center color or whatever. Speaking a little bit
more broadly, the global market for packaged edible flowers is
expected to hit three hundred and eighty million dollars a
year by twenty twenty six. Vola species I keep going
back and forth between viola and viola. I think I'm
(17:35):
sorry I'm not going to stop because I can't remember
which one it is and those ab things it is
on off one zero. I have no idea. It could
be anyon so.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
You're a robot, yes, not when a vampire got it.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
They're probably pretty close anyway. Anyway, species in this genus
are considered a profitable segment of that fresh packaged market,
though not as profitable as marigolds, those tricksy marigolds. The
(18:14):
market for violet extract is worth over two hundred million
dollars a year. The natural extract is now outpacing the
market for the synthetic extract, which is impressive because for
a long time synthetic was kind of the thing it's
It's apparently one of the earlier types of synthetic florals
because of ironine being relatively easily discovered, but I couldn't
(18:39):
find an exact date on that, so I'm not going
to mention it in the history section. But here we
are more. Violet extract goes into cosmetics and like personal
care products than the food and beverage industry, but not
by a whole lot. And there are some violet festivals
in France, there's one in Provence, in this village near
(19:04):
the Mediterranean coast, in between like can and Monaco. As
of twenty twenty five, it was in its seventy eighth year.
There's a parade of floats made with real and paper flowers,
and music and dancing and all kinds of food and
drinks and products for sale made with violence. Oh, listeners,
(19:24):
if you've been, Oh, I found photos. It looks gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
You must let us know. Yes, yes, yes, yes, please yes,
because honestly, a lot of are ostensibly a feud show.
A lot of our history doesn't necessarily involve food, but plenty,
we've got nuggets of it there. Yeah, yes, So we
(19:50):
will get into that after a quick break from award
from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes,
thank you. Okay. So different types of violets originated in
(20:11):
different places around.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
The world, mostly in temperate parts of the Northern Hemisphere.
But again there's a lot of violets. For the two
that we've been mostly talking about today. V Odorata is
from areas around the Mediterranean and V. Sororia is North American.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, yep. Violets do have a long history of being
prized in certain cultures. For a variety of things. The
ancient Greeks used violets to flavor wines or honey, and
violets are mentioned in the first century CE cookbook Out
of Ancient Rome. The Epicus talked about that a lot before.
(20:52):
The indigenous peoples in North America used all parts of
the violet culinarily and medicinally.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
I read that and some a Jibwe traditions. During like
fluffy springtime snows, they would harvest violets and then steep
them overnight in birch bark containers, and then the next
day use the cooled colorful tea or extract to top
fresh snow with as a treat.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Well, that sounds nice, right, and like you said, it
is very pretty. It can be very striking, so yeah,
oh yeah, kind of speaking of. During the Medieval and
Renaissance periods in Europe's violets were sometimes used in art
to depict purity and innocence. The flowers themselves were dried
(21:40):
in preparation of winter to use in the cold months.
The leaves were also eaten. On top of that, the
petals were sometimes used for decorations on things like cakes,
which again I can just see how visually that would
be a nice, nice little thing. In seventeenth century Culpeper's
(22:02):
herbal included an entry on violets. It described many medicinal
uses for the plant, but also culinary applications, particularly with
violet syrup and in liqueurs. And this is just a
brief aside. I think this is where I got caught
up in the whole poetry thing and never finished my
complete thought. But here we go, and stick with me.
(22:28):
In celebration of Elizabeth, the first poet, Edmund Spencer wrote
The Fairy Queen in fifteen ninety and here's a sample
from that. She'd bathe with roses red and violet's blue,
and all the sweetest flowers that in the forest grew.
And if that sounds familiar, it's really stuck around. About
(22:50):
two centuries later, poet Joseph Johnson wrote the Roses read
the Violet's blue, the honey sweet, and so are you.
In eighteen sixty two, Victor Hugo included this in his
play Leis Miserbla. Violets are blue, Roses are red, Violets
(23:11):
are blue. I Love My Loves, which I actually haven't
seen that play, but I was reading it about it
for this research, and I'm to understand that we've largely
misinterpreted as a society.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
I've not so I'm personally not familiar with Lima's rob
I with neither the musical nor the book. Nothing about
it is familiar to me. But I looked this one up.
It's part of a song sung by Fantine. That's all
I got for you. I would have to look further
(23:49):
into it, which I did not do in preparation for
this episode. Well, I know people are fans, so please
write in, Oh, I know people are fans.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Oh yes. According to what I read, though, it was
kind of like it wasn't the It doesn't have the
vibe we say when we say like roses are red,
violets are blue. It was much more kind of like
things are how they are, and that's just it.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
But well, if you can imagine from a piece of
media titled miserab things are going poorly.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Well, all right, listeners were counting on you. We could
have looked it up, and we were. We skewed it
because we're a food show. But here's another note that's
not food related. Interestingly, thousands of years ago, poets sappho
of lesbos out of ancient Greek who is a lesbian
(24:52):
icon of history, wrote you put on many wreaths of
violets and roses together by my side, and round your
tender neck put many woven garlands made from flowers.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
So yeah, being being written about in a romantic poetic
way for millennia. Violets did also figure into an ancient
Greek myth about io When she was a human and
when Zeus fell for her because he was irrepressibly a
(25:26):
philander philanderer, she got turned into a cow and violets
were created for her to eat. The It's the myths
are unclear on who turned her into the cow, who
turned her into the cow, and who gave her the violets,
but that's the gist of the concept.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
So many of these myths revolve around, well, we turned
her into x y Z animal. That's just it. Okay, Yep,
just happens sometimes. Yep, it does, it does. Going back
to a point I made earlier, at least since the
sixteen hundreds, we see this recurring theme of the violent
(26:07):
scent being described as melancholy or sad, as well as
in terms of music. Some speculate this is because of
the violet's unique fragrance properties that cause humans to experience
it and burst like something fading away only to return
again later. I think that's so cool.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
That's so interesting, it really is.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I love that it got incorporated into art, even though
people might not have necessarily understood.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, but they were like, this is a weird thing. Yeah,
let's be metaphorical about that. Cool.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yes, which brings us to Shakespeare. Shakespeare was a big
fan of violets. Shakespeare's early sixteen hundred play Twelfth Night
references them quote, oh it came so over my ear,
like the sweet sound that breathes upon a bank of violets,
stealing and giving odor. Enough, no more, tis not so
(27:07):
sweet as it was before, which is the thing, like, yeah,
stealing and giving odor.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, yeah, he wrote. Shakespeare wrote about violets a lot.
That was the point at which I had to stop
myself and go, like, this is a different episode. The
Shakespeare references alone are a different episode, let alone anything else.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah, I think that's where I got. This whole section
got me stuck, because we do love learning about that
kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Oh yeah, it's super fascinating and I'm a big Shakespeare nerd. Anyway,
and okay, so but yes.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, just know if you're interested, there's a lot of
material out there for you.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
There is, and we may revisit it later.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
We may. Napoleon and Empress Josephine's favorite flower was reportedly
the European violet. Allegedly, he would give Josephine a bouquet
of them every year on their wedding anniversary. Even after
he divorced and died, he was buried with the locket
of her hair and some violets. Corn Twitter read Napoleon's
(28:23):
second wife, Mary Louise, liked violets too, so they were
very popular in France. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
I read that those violets that he was buried with
he had plucked from her grave.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Ooh yeah, that's some emo.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Okay, that's like Mary Shelley level emo. Yes, I adore it.
Right Around this time, in the seventeen to eighteen hundreds,
there are records of color changing ink being made from
violet juice as a sort of parlor trick in France
and England. So like going back to that color changing
property of acid versus base, right, Like if you paint
(28:58):
a piece of paper with a clear acid on one
bit and a clear base on another, something like lemon
juice on one part and like baking soda and water
on another part. Or you know you would have used
potash at the time, but sure, And then you write
or draw over both sections of the paper using violet
(29:18):
juice as your ink. You'll get reds on the acid
part and then greens on the base part.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
That is so cool. You told me when you suggest
this topic. You were like, it's going to be a
lot of different avenues and you were crooks.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Oh it is it is speaking of in England, violets
had around this time, Ish gained an association with like
shy feminine modesty, you know, the shrinking violet, possibly because
of that scent thing, or possibly because the plants kind
of like hide amongst other greenery.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yes, and violets were very popular during Victorian and Edwardian
times in Europe, largely as a cut flower. During this time,
they were really sought after for their beauty and their perfume.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Both to wear on a pin or buttonhole or as
a perfume or to eat as a breath freshener and
a flavor of retreats.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yes. In France, there was a push to breed varieties
that were more fragrant and have longer stems. A lot
of different varieties were described in French sources beginning around
the end of the eighteen hundreds, so they were really
pushing this. This is also when violets got incorporated into
all kinds of things in France, candied violets, violet syrup,
(30:47):
violet perfumes, and ice cream. They were just looking to
add it to anything. Chocolates with violet cream and topped
with violets were popular in England at this time too,
and yes, crim de violets brandy with added sugars and
steeped in violets, has been around since at least the
nineteenth century. It was typically served with something like vermouse
(31:11):
until the Aviation cocktail, which was allegedly invented in nineteen
sixteen separate episode. After a major producer closed their doors
in the sixties, this product, krim de violet, almost faded
away until the two thousands. Towards the end of the
(31:31):
eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds, the Hudson Valley in New
York was facing this sharp economic downturn. Greenhouses owned by
the wealthy weren't being maintained, and then a britishman named
William Saltford got the idea to use these greenhouses to
launch commercial industry around growing violets. His gambit paid off
(31:56):
as violets became popular in fashion and in nearby cities,
and that area was dubbed the violet Capital of the world.
This all changed in the twenties and thirties with the
fungal outbreak and the Great Depression.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Huh. Meanwhile, there was a resurgence of violets as a
sapphic symbol in the nineteen twenties due to this stage
play called The Captive that was about lesbians and in
this one scene, the lady characters exchanged oukats of violets.
(32:38):
Supporters of the show in Paris took to wearing violets.
But the play caused such a stir in New York
that it got shut down by the police and apparently
might have tanked the American violet floral industry.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
It's both sad and hilarious, as both people look me
up to come on, man, these flowers are gay.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Oh no, now that you mentioned that other thing about
the about the Hudson Valley and the fungal outbreak. I
suspect that was more the issue, but.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
They probably dumptailed a little bit. But yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Harper's Bizarre at the time was definitely like, oh yes,
this gay play to the bane of violet growers everywhere ruined.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Uh well, sweet violet production in England peaked in the
nineteen thirties but then kind of went downhill.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, I think that there were a few weather events
around Europe that made growing kind of difficult, starting like
like around mid century. But speaking of mid century, there
were a couple of different tablet style candies that were
popular in the US and the UK around the mid
nineteen hundreds that had violet flavoring, Parma violets and showereds violet.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
I'm so glad you included that note, because I kept
running into Parma violets and I couldn't couldn't quite figure out.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Oh yeah, just a real popular candy. But also a
variety of violets that originally came from Italy that became
very popular in coastal France. Especially if you start looking
up like specific varietals that were developed around that area,
you start hearing a lot about Parma violets.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Yes, it was the first thing that came up in
all my search results, and I was taken aback. So
this is one of those episodes where we have talked
a lot about non food stuff. I would say violets
have seen a bit of a resurgence in the culinary world,
at least in the US, especially when comes to cocktails
(35:01):
or as a garnish for drinks or salads.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Absolutely. I think all of the like fancy restaurants that
I've gone to anytime within the past like five years,
have had at some point a pretentious violet garnish.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
On the plate. Yeah. That feels about It's kind of
sad because you know that they have so much more potential.
But I do feel like we're when it comes to
edible flowers, a lot of times we still use it
as like a garnish or a nice a fancy.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Salad, right right, Yeah, and like not particularly meant to
be appreciated for the scent or even even to eat maybe,
but yeah, but yeah, that resurgence I think was partially
spurred by the Kraft cocktail movement of the early two thousands,
because one of those drinks that just suddenly surged onto
(35:56):
menus everywhere along with a few other classic was the aviation,
So people were like, oh, what's this crime to be
let thing?
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Let's go. Yeah, and as mentioned, it's a very striking cocktail.
It looks pretty. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
No, that purple color is nice, it's pretty.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
It's very pretty. But listeners, if you have more experience
with eating violets or drinking violets in anyway, please let
us know. I'm so interested to hear.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Oh, yes, yes, if you have a favorite bit of
violet related poetry, let us.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Know any poetry.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Oh yeah, yeah, if you have any good food related poetry. Yeah,
but yes, that is what we have to say about
violets for now. We do already have some listener mail
for you, though, and we are going to get into
that as soon as we get back from one more
quick break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, And
we're back with since is gone now but perhaps we'll
come back. I love that. I think that's my favorite
(37:27):
fact of this episode. That is so interesting to me.
That ant thing is pretty cool is cool too.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
But but the but I'm also I'm also a little
bit partial to ant facts.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yes, that makes sense to me. I spent a lot
of time playing some aunt as a child. Ah, yes,
I did know this about you. Yes, okay, well I'm
glad we got to have an ant yes for this episode.
Yes all right. Well, as mentioned, a lot of you
(38:06):
have written in about Krispy Kreme. Please keep those messages coming.
You're loving them. So Joe wrote, Krispy Kreme was always
a treat when I was growing up because the nearest
city with the shop was forty minutes away. If friends
were in that city, they'd bring as a box and
vice versa. Buying four or five dozen was just normal
(38:29):
because of the distance. That scarcity was why Krispy kreame
fundraisers were always so successful. When I was a kid,
everyone was willing to buy a boxer two. Nowadays, my
hometown still doesn't have a dedicated store, though there are
some grocery stores that carry it. It's just not the same,
especially when they're hot. My hometown makes up for it
(38:53):
by having a number of really great local donut shops.
The craving is so real. Dunkin Donuts is far more
ubiquitous up here. It seems like you can't turn around
without tripping over one. But the nearest Krispy Cream is
in the suburbs time to make a special trip.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Yes, it's different things. It's different things.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
It is different things. But I would say, like in
my experience Dunkin Donuts is I guess I can counter
Dunkin Donuts mostly when I'm traveling and there's always a
Dunkin Donuts. There's always an airport or in the airport. Yeah,
going back to that point we made about them kind
of prioritizing the like you're on the go getting.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
And having like breakfast sandwiches and more coffee options stuff
like that.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah. Yeah, but this is this is an interesting take.
I mean, forty minutes away from a Krispy Cream. That's
a little hard for me to envision as well, because
I've got so many.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Crispy Creams around.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Yeah, the South is the South is where they're from.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
But but yeah, no, I mean like no, I mean,
if you're going you might as and you're and you're
traveling with them, you might as well get a few dozens.
Why not? This only makes logical sense.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
That's a funny thing about donuts, is I feel like
that donut logic always happens. It's like I might as well,
get a dozen.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
I mean why not?
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Why not? I got friends, they'll eat some.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah, if you're getting one dozen, you might as well
get too. I mean, what are you doing exactly?
Speaker 1 (40:37):
It's just smart. You're just thinking, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
You're one of the early times that I started, so
I was thinking about starting a food show when we
went to Austin together along with a number of our
other coworkers for south By Southwest. And one of the
things that made me go, like, what about Annie, you
should be on a food show was when you you
(41:04):
had a tip that if you showed up between shift
changes at Voodoo Donuts, they'll give you a bucket of donuts,
like a bucket, like a five gallon bucket of donuts,
and they'll basically just give it to you. Yeah, And
I was like, Annie knows, what's up?
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Like this is great, we need this.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
So we got a bucket of donuts because of course
we did. Of course, I was lovely. It was lovely.
It was that was a good time. We had a
good time. Yeah, yeah, what a weird but lovely trip. Yes, indeed, Carrie.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Wrote hello and thank you for yet another episode full
of nostalgia for me. Have you done an episode on
Lance sandwich crackers. We call them nabs. If you do that,
I may very well travel back in time. For me,
Krispy Kreme and church go together like well donuts and coffee.
Here in North Carolina, you can never go wrong bringing
a dozen glazed to church. You won't have any leftovers either.
(42:04):
Decades ago, someone had the idea to provide Sunday school
students with SODA's and Krispy Kreme right before classes began.
That didn't last long, as the kids threw themselves at
the snack table and got all sugared up before having
to sit still for forty five minutes. My parents would
very occasionally drive by Krispy Cream on the way home
from church just to see if they had hot donuts,
(42:24):
and of course it would be a shame not to
stop in while those donuts were hot, but most of
the time we took a different route home from church.
My favorites are the original Glazed and the crueler Ah memories.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
This is so interesting that you wrote in about this
because I used to. I struggled to sit through church
as a kid, and my parents would offer me a
donut after.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Oh the marshmallow test.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Yeah, yeah, like.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
You can have this thing later if you really behave
yourself right now.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Yes, yes, so I can't imagine if i'd have the
donut before.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Oh no, no that point. Yeah, you're hyped up. You've
had a treat. No, no, that's not gonna work out. Well, no,
but they are. I mean again, you get a dozen donuts.
It's great for an event. It's easy, and people love them.
(43:31):
People love them.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
They bring joy and it.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Would be a shame not to stop while the donuts
are hot.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
That's how they get you. You can't not stop if
the hot signs on.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
I just drive responsibly.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
Yes, look before you turn.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Now. I'm wondering how many people in Atlanta have like
a near death Krispy Kream related experience.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
I think the number is probably pretty high, to be honest,
I suspect so as well. Wow, listeners, if you've had
a dangerous encounter with Krispy Kreme or any Krispy Creame stories,
we would love to hear from you. You can email
us at hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
We are also on social media. You can find us
on blue Sky and Instagram at savor pod, and we
do hope to hear from you savor is production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
(44:42):
your way.
Savor News
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Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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