October 9, 2025 • 41 mins
Anney and Samantha dig into the history and present of the Asian community in the United States.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and for stuff I
never told your production. iHeart radio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Okay, so this episode, listeners has a lot. So I
have a lot of emotions and feelings right now, and
as the administration continues to attack the citizens and residents
and everybody else and ben some without due process or
as if they're you know, not human, it's been hard
to work out these emotions and feelings. So since I
(00:40):
have a mic and platform, thank you any I thought
I would try to work them out with you Annie
and our listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Thank you listeners.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yes, wouldn't do this as a journey content warning.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yes, this is about world issues, racism, death, immigration, all
the things, even adoption. I put a little sprinkle of
adoption stuff in here, and I'm gonna times it is
October ninth, twenty twenty five. I had to like at
a calendar because days, what are the days? I thought
it was the end of October, who knows. At the
same time I thought it was, you know, August.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
What is this temporal distortion? We did an episode on it.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yes, but all that to say, it's today's October ninth,
twenty twenty five. And I swear to God, this really
has been the longest year ever.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, it's been quite long.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
But with that, again, we talk about all kinds of
problems and issues in the world, but today we're focusing
on Asian topics. And though we're going to use sources
in different research, I will also be putting into my
own personal experiences and thoughts. And yeah, I am only
one person with one opinion and one experience, and there
(01:49):
are a lot of things happening. So with all of that,
know that, yes, again peppered with my opinions, this is
a biased conversation and for the most part, we try
to keep it at least research focused.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
And there's a lot of research.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Again we won't talking about that, and a lot of stats,
but I do have thoughts and opinions as an Asian
American woman that has as a naturalized citizen since the
age of fourteen, And yeah, like I said, got a
lot of opinions.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
But with all of that, there's a lot of things
happening when it comes to issues.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Asia is a continent, a giant continent, so it's a
big amount of space with lots of different communities, with
a lot of diversity and cultures. So even though I'm
focusing in saying the terms Asian American, it is going
to be pretty broad and spread out. Of course, as
a South Korean I am a little more focused in
(02:43):
on that Eastern Asian conversation. And yeah, there's a lot
that's happened personally in the State of Georgia with South Korea,
as you may already know. But with that, we are
also focusing on Asian American communities or immigrants are coming
in to the community and how they're affected, or how
the US is seen by the Asian commmunity, or how
(03:05):
the Asian community is seen by the US. But before
we do all that, let's talk about Asian American history,
the history of Asian Americans. It's not something that's taught
in my it was not taught in my school. I
knew very little to none. In fact, the little I
know of it is due to the things of social media,
my own.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Research, and literature.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
East of Eden, which is one of my favorite favorite
favorite books, was one of the better renditions of an
Asian character named Lee, who was portrayed as a secret
moral compass and liked in the story. I think there's
so many reasons why I love that story. That fiction
but his portrayal from such an author like from way
back when was so significant and nude me to see
(03:51):
that that wasn't really it was kind of tongue in
cheek about the racism at that point, like they talk
about pigeon speak and all of that. But he was
the moral center to this conversation. Like Adam, one of
the main characters often conversed with him, like he was
seen as that.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
So it was interesting to know that.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
And this was during everything that was happening in California
with like Gold Russian such kind of INMBS center but
way back when, you know. But we're going to go
through this with the help Ofhistory dot com who gave
us a bit of a timeline and our little summary
from it. So it goes as to this, in the
mid eighteen hundreds, we have the Gold Rush, which brought
a lot of Chinese miners to the California coast. According
(04:32):
to the Library of Congress, we have around twenty five
thousand Chinese laborers arriving to be met with a lot
of discrimination and hostility, and with that they would soon
be a part of the trans Continental Railroad workforce. So
they'd initially come in and try to get gold. That
didn't work out because they no one wanted to share,
no one wanted to give him any access and whatever whatnot.
So they did a lot of the work, including the
(04:54):
trans Continental Railroad. In eighteen seventy five, the Race ofst
Sexist and Fetishizing Page Act was enacted. This prohibited the
use and recruitment of Asian people or Oriental as they
put it, who were brought for quote led inve moral purposes.
Here we have the conversation of Asian women being brought
as prostitutes and allowing for the degradation and humiliation of
(05:16):
Chinese and other Asian women. And also this was also
in part to make sure to separate Asian families.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
There was a lot. There was a lot in America.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
In eighteen eighty two, we had the Chinese Exclusion Act,
which bade at Chinese immigrants from entering the country and
also made sure to deny citizenship. This lasted until nineteen
forty three. Yeah, you guess that when they decided that
Japanese are way worse because you know, we need to
pit people against each other, and they also needed more soldiers.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
In eighteen eighty five, the courts allowed for all students
to have access to public education thanks to the Mami
tape case, an American born Chinese girl versus the San
Francisco Board of Education.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Right in eighteen eighty five through nineteen seventeen.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
We have a whole history of targeted attacks against Asian
coal miners with the deaths of many Asian people and
injuries with absolutely no justice, and of course more congressional
policies barring Asian immigrants or even quarantine and imprisoning them
for long periods of time. So they literally had like
Ellis Island but on the West coast that just kept
(06:23):
Asian people there for a long amount of time. And
speaking of which, nineteen forty one, after the bombing of
Pearl Harbor, we have the interment camp which imprisoned over
one hundred and twenty thousand Japanese Americans, which impacted their
livelihoods and so much more. Bt dubs they have redne
(06:44):
reconstructed this area to have.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
A ice camp encampment.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
So kay it wasn't until nineteen fifty seven there was
an Asian American Indian America and seek in Congress. The
Lipp song from California is sworn in as US representative
who was about civil rights and desegregation at the time,
love to see it.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
In nineteen sixty five, the first Asian American woman and
first woman of color, Patsy T. Mink of Hawaii, who
was sworn in as a US House representative.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Since then, progress has ebbed and flowed, and as I
think most people have noticed, yes, we have had the
push for unions and better work conditions, acceptance with AAIP
Heritage Weekend even extended to a month to coming background
with pushbacks with anti Asian rhetoric to divise between marginalized people.
So what I'm saying in general is that things progress,
(07:43):
things got better than.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Things are now in a stalemate.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
And we know one of the favorite things of white
supremacy is putting marginalized people against each other, and the
Asian people were probably the top in this narrative. So
that brings us to the model where do you miss?
This is what we're talking about. The term was first
introduced in nineteen sixty six thanks to sociologist William Peterson,
(08:07):
who wrote an article titled successful Story Japanese American Style
for the New York Times magazine. There's a couple of
features on New York Times magazines, which seem to really love.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
This conversation.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
By the way, anyway, the theory essentially puts one marginalized
group against another in its incorrect stereotyping of Asian Americans
or Asian people in general. Asian immigrants and NBC News
defined it as this quote a persistent stereotype that paints
Asian American as inherently successful and problem free, particularly in
(08:43):
contrast to other minority groups. Yeah, yeah, no, you see
what you see what I'm saying. Yeah, okay, So of
course this has only strengthened white supremacy, which is the point,
Which is what we're saying. From a twenty seventeen article
from NPR written by Catchild titled model minority myth again
used as a racial wedge between Asians and Blacks, she
(09:06):
writes the article is referencing another article that was not
well received within the Asian community, which seemed to only
uphold the model minority myth. Sullivan's comments showcase a classic
and tenacious conservative strategy. Janelle Wong, the director of Asian
American Studies at the University of Maryland, College Park, said
in an email. This strategy, she says, involves quote one
(09:29):
ignoring the role that selective recruitment of highly educated Asian
immigrants have played in Asian American success, followed by two
making a flawed comparison between Asian Americans and other groups,
particularly Black Americans, to argue that racism, including more than
two centuries of black enslavement, can be overcome by hard
(09:50):
work and strong family values. There's so many things to
this narrative that makes me want to.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Throw a computer.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
So the article further explains the way p the person
again who coined this infuriating term, really laid out the
groundwork to these divisions.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Quote.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
It solidified a prevailing stereotype of Asians as industrious and
a rule abiding that would stand in direct contrast to
African Americans, who are still struggling against bigotry, poverty, and
history rooted in slavery. In the opening paragraphs, Peterson quickly
puts African Americans and Japanese Americans at odds as which
(10:30):
of the country's ethnic minorities has been subjected to the
most discrimination and the worst injustices. Very few persons would
even think of the answering the Japanese Americans. Yet, if
the questions refers to persons alive today, that may well
be the correct reply. Like the Black people, the Japanese
have been the object of color prejudice. When new opportunities,
(10:52):
even equal opportunities, are opened up the minorities, reaction to
them is likely to be negative, either self defeating apathy
or or hatred is so all consuming as to be
self destructive. For the well meaning programs and countless scholarly
studies now focused on the Black people, we barely know
how to repair the damage that the slave traders started,
(11:12):
the History of Japanese Americans, however, challenges every such generalization.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
About ethnic minorities.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
But as history shows, Asian Americans were afforded better jobs,
not simply because of educational attainment, but in part because
they were treated better. So, by the way, look behind
the curtains. I changed some of the terms because there's
that big quote was from Peterson's article in the early
(11:41):
days in which they have politically incorrect terms for the
black community. But at the same time, it is obvious
what he is trying to do in this comparison, and
it is tactic number one for white superses. And once
again this is reinforcing that level of power, and this
(12:03):
is kind of where that belief of the Asian people
really really thinking they're better than because they got a
pad on the back from the main people in power.
(12:25):
So with a brief history of Asian Americans, what is
happening today, Well, honestly what the model minority meant, still
in full swing with events such as the reversing of
affirmative action, thanks in part to an Asian American who
bought into the narrative to be in proximity of white men. Yes,
(12:47):
with the help and backing of white men, the state
of affairs is not great now.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
According to a lot of data, Asian immigrants' main reason
for coming to the US is all about the educational opportunity,
either for them or for their family. According to Pew
research from October of twenty twenty four, they say six
and ten came for educational purposes or for economic purposes,
and more than half of the Asian immigrants say there
(13:14):
definitely need to be some major changes in immigration policies.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Interestingly, according to the same research, democrats are more likely
to help and increase Asian immigrant citizenship and green cards
with programs such as Dacca and more, and the amount
of Asian Americas at that time registered as Republicans were
higher than Democrats, but honestly by a slight margin. Still
disheartening when you vote against your own interests.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah, in other pe research about how Asian immigrants live
in the United States and why many of them believe
the US has better opportunities for them and for their children.
But interestingly, they believe that family ties and family importance
is stronger in their country of origin.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Right, And we've kind of talked about this in the
way that the new generations of the Millennials and now
Gen Ziers are still living with parents in a lot
of the Asian communities, and that that's the norm that
they do not leave until they are married themselves, and
oftentimes in laws, especially if one is widowed, comes and
live with them, stays with them like they have a duty.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
To their parents.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
And that's not necessarily a really big thing in the US,
although I feel like people are now getting closer to that,
a lot of people moving back in and seeing those
benefits of like less bills. So again from that Pew
research quote, Asian Americans are the only major race or
ethnic group in the United States that is majority immigrants.
Some of the twenty four million Asian Americans living in
(14:42):
the US are immigrants, and among Asian adults that share
rises to sixty seven percent. Like, we've pretty hardcore gone
after the Latino population, especially men, because they also voted
against their own interests, being like, you knew what was
coming because honestly, they were thought they would be a
majority of US. And I say this US as in
(15:04):
liberal or left leaning knew that these types of bills,
especially when it comes to immigration policies and ice, they
were targeting specific groups of people and they're usually Latino
or Muslim group populations, and we've seen it.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
But for those who actually studied.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
And I know that's to our listeners, they already knew
this was going to affect everyone, and for many of
the Asian people who voted against their own interests. Again,
like I think it wasn't fifty percent, but it was
still too high. This should have been a warning set
that this would also affect them. And again Georgia had
the biggest ligne and it was sad and comical at
the same time. So with numbers broken down like this quote,
(15:43):
Asian Americans trace their origins from all parts of Asia
and make up a significant portion of the overall US
immigration population. Three of the largest US immigration population are
from India at two point eight million, China two point
five million, and the Philippines at two million. In Fyi,
over two hundred thous other immigrants are adoptees from different
Asian countries. According to some research, with the help of
(16:05):
the White House Initiative on Asian Americans, Native Hawaiians and
Pacific Islanders Commissions, and Asian American Adoptees, Kim Park Nelson
was able to get some more specific numbers as of
August of twenty twenty four, so they break it down
like this. The largest group of adoptees are around one
hundred and seventeen thousand are from Korea. The second would
be from China at ninety seven thousand, ten thousand from Vietnam,
(16:27):
ten thousand from India, seven thousand from the Philippines, three
thousand from Taiwan, and two thousand from Thailand, and with
that around one thousand from Hong Kong. Going back to
the overview, while researching the attitudes of Asian Americans and
their immigrant families, most of the research has been from
twenty twenty four pre Trump like it has to be stated, however,
(16:50):
the stats are not glowing for the Asian American community,
though it does show that sixty one percent of Asian
American voters went for Harris in the twenty twenty four election,
and it's went down by seven percent from the twenty
twenty election, and seemingly every election cycle the percentage continues
(17:10):
to go down for left leaning voters or for Democratic voters.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
According to my Asian Voice dot com, the data shows
Chinese Americans were the lowest and Democratic votes at fifty
three percent, which was the giant downfall from twenty twenty,
which showed seventy two percent of votes for Biden. However,
the Japanese American votes were higher for Harris than they
were for Biden.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Right. One thing that many of the researchers have shown
is that Asian Americans have slowly started to lean again
more and more conservative. Of course, this was again most
of the research in twenty twenty four. I think things
may slightly shift as we've seen a lot more naturalized citizens,
green card holders, visa holders from Asia, yes, the continent
(18:00):
being a part of this deportation sweep. So in fact,
some like the attitudes of some of the other marginalized
communities believe the idea that if they do the things
quote right in the right way, then they are exempt
from the conservative ideology of immigrants and fear mongering of immigrants.
(18:23):
With the crackdown against immigrants, both those who have worked
to legally obtain citizenships and those who haven't, the amount
of people being unlawfully picked up by ice has become
more and more frequent, with the government using the opportunity
to spend more money to increase the.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Profits of private equity.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yes, I think, just as a reminder, when we have
detention centers they are privately owned, the contracts they are
privately owned. This is all equity. When we have contracts
with I don't know Uganda, this is a private capital venture.
As a reminder. However, this new practice has dented some
(19:04):
of the capitalists ventures like the Henn Dai plant that
was projected to bring in lots of jobs and profits
with the help of the South Korean deal in the
state of Georgia. After they rated a newly built plant
looking for a few immigrants, they crashed with their assault rifles,
tactical gears, mass and shackles and very little identifiers are
(19:25):
resting around four hundred and seventy five people, shackling and
detaining them.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
With no due process.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
And I want to put this caveat here because I've
been kind of really irritated in this narrative by South
Korean people, in South Korean immigrants, or any Asian like,
any Asian American people when they talk about this and
be like they were unduly processed. The amount of force
that they use to find quote unquote a few of
(19:53):
the undocumented BT does many of these people that are
being hunted down, if I guess for the lack of
better terms, they are in the middle of getting their
due process. They are in the middle of getting their citizenships,
abiding by showing up at courts, abiding by going to
their dates. They are being everything they are meant to do.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
They are paying.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Taxes this level where they don't pay taxes, yes they do,
Yes they do, Yes they do, and they don't receive
any of the benefits for paying those taxes. It's still
obnoxious that they even if it was just three or
four people, it still is a bad, bad practice and
still inhumane, just to put that out there. It shouldn't
(20:41):
be just because so many people from the good workers,
as Trump would say, the high skilled workers, as he
had said, it should be said that if there were
still the three or four, we should all still be ashamed.
So I want to put that caveat there because I'm
tired of hearing oh, just a South Korea's Oh. What
(21:01):
it did do is brought it into an international scale
and brought it to the attention of people who hold
money and ties to money. So that did help with that.
But we should be upset that the original narrative was
the four or five. I know there's this the woman
in South Georgia who was running for Congress who thought
she was doing something real big and then lied about
(21:22):
the same which we need to come back up to
an episode of saying they were being trafficked, they're being enslaved.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
No, they're not. You are a liar.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
You're putting that same narrative that many conservative white women
who want to clutch their pearls and say we have
to save the children and women, and you try to
change that narrative into this when you figured out, oh,
I just cost our country billions of dollars, specifically our state,
that's a whole different episode.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
I'm very upset moving on.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
But with all of that, many who were present of
the Korean workers, they did have visas. Now some of
these visas were incorrect, the paperwork was done incorrect. The
H one B visa program is very selective and very confusing,
apparently even for other governments to fill out for high
skilled labor, as they say, And I can't seem to
(22:17):
get a number of how many were approved. Like listen,
everything's going out the window because the back and forth
narrative of who's wrong and right and how many have
been told to go ahead and go so they doesn't.
They didn't slow down the possibility of opening the plant,
that amount of which actually happened. By the way, after
all of this went down, Mark Rubio as well as
(22:40):
Trump was like, why don't you stay, We promise we
won't arrest you again, not guaranteeing a visa, not guaranteeing
the right paperwork. They just said, trust us bro, which
is I'm pretty sure how it started.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
By the way, trust us bro. We got you. Oh
my bad.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Many of the SECO fans have argued that the South
Koreans were illegally here without the proper paperwork. Again, the
trust me bro happens a lot. All the while, Trump
himself stated that the skilled workers were welcomed here and
through the negotiations of Vio enticed them to continue their
work here, with no actual efforts or guarantees that something
would like this wouldn't happen again again. It really was
(23:20):
like a bro promise this time for sure, this time.
No no, no, no, no, no, no, you're you're the
good ones. He really did say that. Yes, I hate
it here anyway. Governor Kemp of Georgia, who apparently was
not aware of the raid yet he's actually stated that
he didn't know this was going to happen, has tried
(23:41):
to quietly hide under the radar by not publicly speaking
against the raid, as he just made quite a bit
of money with the opening of the latest iceed attention
centers here, but did make a trip to South Korea
to try to smooth things over.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
I'm not sure how that went.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
There was a lot of oward like photo ops, yeah,
but no actual progress. And I love the fact that
he has not yet once made a statement except for
being like, I didn't know this and then just traveled
to South Korea.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Yep, there are conversations of lawsuits coming from South Korea
due to the inhumane treatment of their citizens while being
detained by ICE in the US. However, as of October,
it seems there has been some agreement to allow for
South Korean workers to continue their work, but no real changes,
as PBS reports saying this quote. South Korea has called
(24:32):
for more fundamental steps, such as creating a new music
category to expand access for skilled workers, but US officials
at the Washington meeting said major changes would be difficult
because of legislative constraints. According to a statement from the
South Korean Ministry.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
So literally they don't care enough to fix it, but
they're really still begging them to come. Oh and this
is also at the same time that President Trump's administration.
Trump is like, give me billions of dollars for you
to open these factories from both Japan and South Korea,
and both of them are like what what of course
(25:09):
this is after he gave billions to Argentina. What anyway,
So the sentiments within South Korea has been pretty intense.
As a country that is all about holding their officials accountable.
They have overthrown and impeached many a precedents successfully, some
have been assassinated. I don't think that's the citizens, but
just saying they have been quite loud about the treatment
(25:32):
of their people, and the administration continues to not be
held accountable for the distress of their people, which is
why this lawsuit could happen, and it probably should and
would do some major things if it were to go forward.
Of course, the tariffs and trade wars between the US
and other Asian countries have not made any of this better,
which not surprising. I have been on South Korean TikTok
(25:58):
where they are continually making fun of the US of
Trump and the specific woman in South Georgia like they
are going after her.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
They're being real mean.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
If you know anything about Korean medicines, their mean so
and it doesn't help that the administration has made the
views on Asian Americans less favorable as well. According to
the University of Washington, they have an article from the
Asian American Foundation, which released a study in May of
twenty twenty five which shows that the US views have
(26:29):
not been great. So these are some of the key
findings that they quote. The results reveal a lot regarding
the perception of Asian Americans in the US, including three
key findings of Americans think Asian Americans are more loyal
to their country of origin than the US, and that's
double of what it was in twenty twenty one. More
than a quarter of Americans are concerned that Chinese Americans
(26:51):
are a threat to US society, especially when it comes
to national security.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
At the same time, worldwide, it seems that the US
may be falling out of face very while China is
starting to look real good. From some other pe research
from July of twenty twenty five, they say this quote.
Across twenty four countries Pew Research Center surveyed this spring,
more people have a positive view of the United States
than of China. However, this gap is closing as views
(27:17):
of the US have become more negative while views of
China have turned more positive.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Right, so the increasing amount, like in percentage wise, is
changing pretty quickly, and they are starting to see China
as possibly the better power or more power, especially when
it comes to technology, in trade, and in labor, which
is really scary for so many reasons, because neither China
or the US are great. Let's just be very very clear.
(27:44):
They list Israel as one of the countries who definitely
favor US over China. But countries like Mexico, Canada, Indonesia
and several others they seem to be going in their
favorability to China.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Mexico and Canada. I feel like that's explanatory.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
No Ah, I mean, everybody's everybody's suffering from what's happening
in the United States right now, really, I mean mostly,
but Mexico and Canada. I do feel a particular I'm
so sorry, to be fair.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Like our administration have threatened war when both.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Of them living with a roommate has a disorder where
every four years they completely.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
They're like, we're gonna take you what right now?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
So, I mean, I don't think that that's not too surprising.
I will say, from what we can gather, many of
the Asian areas are.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
All about China.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
That is increased as once upon a time that wasn't
the case. So yes, with the likes of blaming Asian
people for cod and the rise of Asian hate, it
isn't hard to see that within the Asian communities there's
(29:04):
also some divisiveness. I mean, obviously, when we have this
conversation about the republic Democrats of voting split, like the
fact that it's so close is upsetting in itself. But
something that has been annoying the hell out of me
is this conversation of the Oxford Study. So for those
of you who have never heard of it, and I
(29:26):
wish I was you, I wish I was you, we're
going to talk about the study. So in the study,
this specific quote, which is being used a lot more
so in TikTok than anywhere else. I think it has
now gone over to Instagram and such is loosely referencing
a study completed in twenty ten that was titled the
New Susie Wong Narrative Assumptions of White Male and Asian
(29:50):
Female Relationships and these were done by Asian women, I
believe so from Joysauce dot com quote. This study examines
Roman Antico relationships between white men and Asian women using
the context set by the nineteen sixty film The World
of Suzie Wong. According to the study, is generally believed
that this film set the stereotypical standard of naive subservience
(30:13):
paired with hypersexuality that follows Asian women in Western world,
especially when in relation to the white men that seek
them out. Essentially, it was a report about fetishizing of
Asian women in the early film industries portrayal of women
Asian women in again the film industry. The article goes
(30:34):
on to say this, The study concludes that the stereotypical
Susie Wong esque representation of Asian females when associated romantically
with white men has become internalized and normalized. So it's
talking about the fact that this was really bad, especially
when we see and portray Asian women, and it still
happens today as being that subservient pretty much male order
(30:58):
bride conversation. So we're thinking, like, especially with that conversation
of like war torn world and war made bride, where
the soldier goes overseas to an Asian country, takes a
wife from bring her back, and because she is so
out of her realm that all she can do is
worship the white man. But this has turned into oh,
(31:20):
this is all Asian women. Correct, But as of late,
many have used the term Oxford study as a way
to denigrate any Asian women who is dating a white person.
I will say I have seen people who try to
use this term in reverse as a reverse Oxford study
when it's an Asian man with white women that hasn't stuck,
(31:42):
but I've seen people try it, I will say that,
which is odd because the majority of people using this
phrase are actually Asian men. Are those who are hiding
behind a digital Asian mask kind of you know, like
you know what I'm saying, like pretending they're Asian themselves.
But this current trend has really shown the persistent need
(32:04):
to sexualize and fetishize Asian women at the same time
using it in the most misogynistic ways possible. Literally most
of the comments are only under Asian women influencers, and
in the minute they find out that there's a white
person as their partner that is full of it. It
is completely I will say. They also have added comfort
(32:25):
women as a term for South Koreans. That is one
of the most offensive things you could do because the
history of it is so sensitive and he still has
yet to be resolved. This with the added out data
study of how most men prefer Asian women, which again
is part of the stereotype of Asian women being sexualized
and phantilized and subjugated.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Back to the Joysauce article quote TikTok, scholars have been
digging into other data from dating apps, including one creator
who recently did a deep dive into an article published
by The Daily Mail in twenty thirteen. Amongst the plethora
of potentially outdated race focused dating app data, this article
stated that most men prefer Asian women with the exception
(33:05):
of Asian men. Though both studies are now more than
ten years old, their impact on the current relationship zeitgeist
is still holding strong and often encourages misplaced blame for
the emasculation of Asian men on Asian women. As clearly
evidenced by the Men's Rights Asians movement, it became clear
(33:26):
that members of the community see Asian women as playing
an active role in maintaining the stereotypes placed on Asian men.
They often contended that choosing non Asian partners means undermining
and emasculating Asian men, therefore perpetuating white supremacy.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
It's a wonderful form of gaslighting.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yeah, to be your fault for sure, right.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Oh and yeah, we talked a bit about the feminist
movement in South Korea and the men's rights groups there,
which have caused a small movement light for b movement
that has gained a lot of popularity around the world,
including here in the US, and we're not saying that
South Korea's FORB movement is the reason for the decline
of the birth rate everywhere. I think it just finally
(34:15):
was named as like, yeah, finally, yeah yeah, okay, yeah,
because we have seen a huge decline in South Korea,
in Japan, in the US and so many more of
the countries.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Maybe it's Asian women's fault for that too.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Again, the comment is seemingly innocent, but the usage is
poignant and purposeful. From a Guardian article written by Steffi Cow,
she writes this, the submissive, sexualized perception of Asian women persist.
They are stereotyped by demeaning depictions of male order brides
and comfort women, and eroticize in wayfu art misogynistic memes
(34:52):
about Asian women in interracial relationships about online including Oxford study.
These are layered comments that show both hate and disdain
for women who choose to date non Asian men. It's
something that has to be studied. Is only perpetuates the
lessening of Asian women's humanity.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Right back to Cow's article quote, much of this misogyny
is nurtured within men's rights, Asian MRI Asians groups online
which organize harassment campaigns towards Asian women who date non
Asian people. The group's ire stems from another racist stereotype
with repercussions in the dating realm, that Asian men are
(35:33):
emasculated and unattractive. Asian men were revealed as one of
the least swiped on racial groups in a twenty fourteen
OkCupid report. Much of the recent derogatory language around the
dating habits of Asian women has been coined in the
Mr Asians space. Wmaf or a white male Asian female
relationship Lou an Asian woman who rejects Asian men in
(35:56):
favor of white men. Banana ng an Asian woman who
used today white men but now seeks a relationship with
an Asian man.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Now with the popularity in the rise of K pop
and like K dramas, C dramas, jpop, I think things
are probably going to be shifting because they have become
a new fixation on Asian men, which is wonderful. Again,
this comes back to gas lighting Asian women. That's your
fault that we don't have a relationship like it is
(36:27):
a new form of insul like it's racial now again.
I talked about this before when we talked about online dating,
I rarely got hit on.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
By a lot of Asian men. I will say that,
but I.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Just remember one incident in which the dude, this is
his way of like trying to get my attention, instead
of just saying, hey, I like your picture. Hey that's
a cute dog, because I always figured a doll probably,
But instead he immediately started with I know you're probably
not gonna come talk to me because you probably date
only white men, because you won't even give me a chance,
Like that.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Was the amiting the opening.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
I was like, wow, well, definitely not gonna talk to
you now because I'm scared of you, Like I'm immediately scared,
immediately scared. But there is this heaviness to that conversation,
especially when we see Oxford City, like the part that
gets me with people commenting, of course there's trolls. There's
always going to be trolled. It's that level of like
did you even know them? I didn't reject you, I
(37:25):
don't know you.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
What is this?
Speaker 2 (37:27):
What is this new level of disdain for someone happy
in a relationship. And there's a whole different conversation when
we talk about interracial dating. It may be outlawed soon
because we are seeing a slippery slope of things that
come so in our Asians, You're gonna about to be
real happy.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
I guess, I don't know, probably not.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Exactly, but there's so many things in this conversation and
the amount of times that I have seen the comment
Oxford City makes me so angry because it comes back
to re stereotyping and dehumanizing Asian women again, which you're like,
we would make it so many progressive steps, and now
(38:09):
we're back here with just one statement. And yet actually
the researchers for the actual Oxford Studies, which has nothing
to do with this, necessarily has said like, no, this
was never our intent. What is happening. This is actually
the opposite of what we wanted. As well as the
fact that the origination was some random dude saying there
(38:29):
needs to be an Oxford study because he saw a
happy couple who was an Asian woman with a white
man about women like her. So it wasn't even really
in referencing to that study, but there is an absolute
belief that is a real study too.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
Yeah, it feels kind of like the Mandela effect for
everybody's like, I know, I remember this happened.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
This is a study what you think it is.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Nope, but there's a lot again and so much more
in conversation that we talk about. I didn't even talk
about the fact that there was plenty of naturalized Asian
students who are getting their citizenship revoked based on who
they are protesting. For the fact that our naturalization status
(39:20):
could be revoked based on whether or not the government
thinks that we are a threat. We haven't even talked
about the LGBTQ to it all, and how that isn't
another layer in this intersectional conversation of what.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
We see every day.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Like I said, the Asian community is a giant community
and for us to ignore the things that are happening
in the US is absurd. But at the same time
I understand for those of us who don't feel stable
and are scared are trying to figure out how to
best walk this line of trying to seek justice and
advocacy versus self preservation or with self preservation us not versus.
(40:01):
And in that conversation of like, yes, I'm glad South
Korea got a wake up call to understand the US
is not about you. But at the same time that
it had to get to that model minority conversation in
order to see and highlight the awful treatment and inhumane
(40:25):
treatment that the US policies have put onto other people.
There's a lot, There's a lot. There's so much happening
again with this topic alone, and honestly, Annie, I refuse
to do a two parter again. I'm trying my best,
so we'll end it here, but I fully expect we
will have many, many more conversations about this in the future,
(40:48):
as long as we have this job.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Yep, yep, yep. Well listeners, As always, we would love
to hear from you. If you any thoughts about this
or any resources, always appreciated. You can email us at
Hello at Stuffwhennever Told You dot com. You can find
us on Blue Skuy at mom Stuff podcast or on
Instagram and to talk at stuff We Never Told You.
We're also on YouTube. We have some new merchandise at
(41:14):
Cotton Bureau, and we have a book you can get
wherever you get your books. Thanks as always to our
super producer Christina, executive producer and our contributor Joey. Thank
you and thanks to you for listening Stuff Never Told You.
This book should i heart Radio. For more podcasts from
my heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio
app Apple Podcasts wherever you listening to your favorite sh
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and for stuff I
never told your production. iHeart radio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Okay, so this episode, listeners has a lot. So I
have a lot of emotions and feelings right now, and
as the administration continues to attack the citizens and residents
and everybody else and ben some without due process or
as if they're you know, not human, it's been hard
to work out these emotions and feelings. So since I
(00:40):
have a mic and platform, thank you any I thought
I would try to work them out with you Annie
and our listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Thank you listeners.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yes, wouldn't do this as a journey content warning.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yes, this is about world issues, racism, death, immigration, all
the things, even adoption. I put a little sprinkle of
adoption stuff in here, and I'm gonna times it is
October ninth, twenty twenty five. I had to like at
a calendar because days, what are the days? I thought
it was the end of October, who knows. At the
same time I thought it was, you know, August.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
What is this temporal distortion? We did an episode on it.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yes, but all that to say, it's today's October ninth,
twenty twenty five. And I swear to God, this really
has been the longest year ever.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, it's been quite long.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
But with that, again, we talk about all kinds of
problems and issues in the world, but today we're focusing
on Asian topics. And though we're going to use sources
in different research, I will also be putting into my
own personal experiences and thoughts. And yeah, I am only
one person with one opinion and one experience, and there
(01:49):
are a lot of things happening. So with all of that,
know that, yes, again peppered with my opinions, this is
a biased conversation and for the most part, we try
to keep it at least research focused.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
And there's a lot of research.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Again we won't talking about that, and a lot of stats,
but I do have thoughts and opinions as an Asian
American woman that has as a naturalized citizen since the
age of fourteen, And yeah, like I said, got a
lot of opinions.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
But with all of that, there's a lot of things
happening when it comes to issues.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Asia is a continent, a giant continent, so it's a
big amount of space with lots of different communities, with
a lot of diversity and cultures. So even though I'm
focusing in saying the terms Asian American, it is going
to be pretty broad and spread out. Of course, as
a South Korean I am a little more focused in
(02:43):
on that Eastern Asian conversation. And yeah, there's a lot
that's happened personally in the State of Georgia with South Korea,
as you may already know. But with that, we are
also focusing on Asian American communities or immigrants are coming
in to the community and how they're affected, or how
the US is seen by the Asian commmunity, or how
(03:05):
the Asian community is seen by the US. But before
we do all that, let's talk about Asian American history,
the history of Asian Americans. It's not something that's taught
in my it was not taught in my school. I
knew very little to none. In fact, the little I
know of it is due to the things of social media,
my own.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Research, and literature.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
East of Eden, which is one of my favorite favorite
favorite books, was one of the better renditions of an
Asian character named Lee, who was portrayed as a secret
moral compass and liked in the story. I think there's
so many reasons why I love that story. That fiction
but his portrayal from such an author like from way
back when was so significant and nude me to see
(03:51):
that that wasn't really it was kind of tongue in
cheek about the racism at that point, like they talk
about pigeon speak and all of that. But he was
the moral center to this conversation. Like Adam, one of
the main characters often conversed with him, like he was
seen as that.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
So it was interesting to know that.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
And this was during everything that was happening in California
with like Gold Russian such kind of INMBS center but
way back when, you know. But we're going to go
through this with the help Ofhistory dot com who gave
us a bit of a timeline and our little summary
from it. So it goes as to this, in the
mid eighteen hundreds, we have the Gold Rush, which brought
a lot of Chinese miners to the California coast. According
(04:32):
to the Library of Congress, we have around twenty five
thousand Chinese laborers arriving to be met with a lot
of discrimination and hostility, and with that they would soon
be a part of the trans Continental Railroad workforce. So
they'd initially come in and try to get gold. That
didn't work out because they no one wanted to share,
no one wanted to give him any access and whatever whatnot.
So they did a lot of the work, including the
(04:54):
trans Continental Railroad. In eighteen seventy five, the Race ofst
Sexist and Fetishizing Page Act was enacted. This prohibited the
use and recruitment of Asian people or Oriental as they
put it, who were brought for quote led inve moral purposes.
Here we have the conversation of Asian women being brought
as prostitutes and allowing for the degradation and humiliation of
(05:16):
Chinese and other Asian women. And also this was also
in part to make sure to separate Asian families.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
There was a lot. There was a lot in America.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
In eighteen eighty two, we had the Chinese Exclusion Act,
which bade at Chinese immigrants from entering the country and
also made sure to deny citizenship. This lasted until nineteen
forty three. Yeah, you guess that when they decided that
Japanese are way worse because you know, we need to
pit people against each other, and they also needed more soldiers.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
In eighteen eighty five, the courts allowed for all students
to have access to public education thanks to the Mami
tape case, an American born Chinese girl versus the San
Francisco Board of Education.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Right in eighteen eighty five through nineteen seventeen.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
We have a whole history of targeted attacks against Asian
coal miners with the deaths of many Asian people and
injuries with absolutely no justice, and of course more congressional
policies barring Asian immigrants or even quarantine and imprisoning them
for long periods of time. So they literally had like
Ellis Island but on the West coast that just kept
(06:23):
Asian people there for a long amount of time. And
speaking of which, nineteen forty one, after the bombing of
Pearl Harbor, we have the interment camp which imprisoned over
one hundred and twenty thousand Japanese Americans, which impacted their
livelihoods and so much more. Bt dubs they have redne
(06:44):
reconstructed this area to have.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
A ice camp encampment.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
So kay it wasn't until nineteen fifty seven there was
an Asian American Indian America and seek in Congress. The
Lipp song from California is sworn in as US representative
who was about civil rights and desegregation at the time,
love to see it.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
In nineteen sixty five, the first Asian American woman and
first woman of color, Patsy T. Mink of Hawaii, who
was sworn in as a US House representative.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Since then, progress has ebbed and flowed, and as I
think most people have noticed, yes, we have had the
push for unions and better work conditions, acceptance with AAIP
Heritage Weekend even extended to a month to coming background
with pushbacks with anti Asian rhetoric to divise between marginalized people.
So what I'm saying in general is that things progress,
(07:43):
things got better than.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Things are now in a stalemate.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
And we know one of the favorite things of white
supremacy is putting marginalized people against each other, and the
Asian people were probably the top in this narrative. So
that brings us to the model where do you miss?
This is what we're talking about. The term was first
introduced in nineteen sixty six thanks to sociologist William Peterson,
(08:07):
who wrote an article titled successful Story Japanese American Style
for the New York Times magazine. There's a couple of
features on New York Times magazines, which seem to really love.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
This conversation.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
By the way, anyway, the theory essentially puts one marginalized
group against another in its incorrect stereotyping of Asian Americans
or Asian people in general. Asian immigrants and NBC News
defined it as this quote a persistent stereotype that paints
Asian American as inherently successful and problem free, particularly in
(08:43):
contrast to other minority groups. Yeah, yeah, no, you see
what you see what I'm saying. Yeah, okay, So of
course this has only strengthened white supremacy, which is the point,
Which is what we're saying. From a twenty seventeen article
from NPR written by Catchild titled model minority myth again
used as a racial wedge between Asians and Blacks, she
(09:06):
writes the article is referencing another article that was not
well received within the Asian community, which seemed to only
uphold the model minority myth. Sullivan's comments showcase a classic
and tenacious conservative strategy. Janelle Wong, the director of Asian
American Studies at the University of Maryland, College Park, said
in an email. This strategy, she says, involves quote one
(09:29):
ignoring the role that selective recruitment of highly educated Asian
immigrants have played in Asian American success, followed by two
making a flawed comparison between Asian Americans and other groups,
particularly Black Americans, to argue that racism, including more than
two centuries of black enslavement, can be overcome by hard
(09:50):
work and strong family values. There's so many things to
this narrative that makes me want to.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Throw a computer.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
So the article further explains the way p the person
again who coined this infuriating term, really laid out the
groundwork to these divisions.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Quote.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
It solidified a prevailing stereotype of Asians as industrious and
a rule abiding that would stand in direct contrast to
African Americans, who are still struggling against bigotry, poverty, and
history rooted in slavery. In the opening paragraphs, Peterson quickly
puts African Americans and Japanese Americans at odds as which
(10:30):
of the country's ethnic minorities has been subjected to the
most discrimination and the worst injustices. Very few persons would
even think of the answering the Japanese Americans. Yet, if
the questions refers to persons alive today, that may well
be the correct reply. Like the Black people, the Japanese
have been the object of color prejudice. When new opportunities,
(10:52):
even equal opportunities, are opened up the minorities, reaction to
them is likely to be negative, either self defeating apathy
or or hatred is so all consuming as to be
self destructive. For the well meaning programs and countless scholarly
studies now focused on the Black people, we barely know
how to repair the damage that the slave traders started,
(11:12):
the History of Japanese Americans, however, challenges every such generalization.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
About ethnic minorities.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
But as history shows, Asian Americans were afforded better jobs,
not simply because of educational attainment, but in part because
they were treated better. So, by the way, look behind
the curtains. I changed some of the terms because there's
that big quote was from Peterson's article in the early
(11:41):
days in which they have politically incorrect terms for the
black community. But at the same time, it is obvious
what he is trying to do in this comparison, and
it is tactic number one for white superses. And once
again this is reinforcing that level of power, and this
(12:03):
is kind of where that belief of the Asian people
really really thinking they're better than because they got a
pad on the back from the main people in power.
(12:25):
So with a brief history of Asian Americans, what is
happening today, Well, honestly what the model minority meant, still
in full swing with events such as the reversing of
affirmative action, thanks in part to an Asian American who
bought into the narrative to be in proximity of white men. Yes,
(12:47):
with the help and backing of white men, the state
of affairs is not great now.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
According to a lot of data, Asian immigrants' main reason
for coming to the US is all about the educational opportunity,
either for them or for their family. According to Pew
research from October of twenty twenty four, they say six
and ten came for educational purposes or for economic purposes,
and more than half of the Asian immigrants say there
(13:14):
definitely need to be some major changes in immigration policies.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Interestingly, according to the same research, democrats are more likely
to help and increase Asian immigrant citizenship and green cards
with programs such as Dacca and more, and the amount
of Asian Americas at that time registered as Republicans were
higher than Democrats, but honestly by a slight margin. Still
disheartening when you vote against your own interests.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah, in other pe research about how Asian immigrants live
in the United States and why many of them believe
the US has better opportunities for them and for their children.
But interestingly, they believe that family ties and family importance
is stronger in their country of origin.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Right, And we've kind of talked about this in the
way that the new generations of the Millennials and now
Gen Ziers are still living with parents in a lot
of the Asian communities, and that that's the norm that
they do not leave until they are married themselves, and
oftentimes in laws, especially if one is widowed, comes and
live with them, stays with them like they have a duty.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
To their parents.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
And that's not necessarily a really big thing in the US,
although I feel like people are now getting closer to that,
a lot of people moving back in and seeing those
benefits of like less bills. So again from that Pew
research quote, Asian Americans are the only major race or
ethnic group in the United States that is majority immigrants.
Some of the twenty four million Asian Americans living in
(14:42):
the US are immigrants, and among Asian adults that share
rises to sixty seven percent. Like, we've pretty hardcore gone
after the Latino population, especially men, because they also voted
against their own interests, being like, you knew what was
coming because honestly, they were thought they would be a
majority of US. And I say this US as in
(15:04):
liberal or left leaning knew that these types of bills,
especially when it comes to immigration policies and ice, they
were targeting specific groups of people and they're usually Latino
or Muslim group populations, and we've seen it.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
But for those who actually studied.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
And I know that's to our listeners, they already knew
this was going to affect everyone, and for many of
the Asian people who voted against their own interests. Again,
like I think it wasn't fifty percent, but it was
still too high. This should have been a warning set
that this would also affect them. And again Georgia had
the biggest ligne and it was sad and comical at
the same time. So with numbers broken down like this quote,
(15:43):
Asian Americans trace their origins from all parts of Asia
and make up a significant portion of the overall US
immigration population. Three of the largest US immigration population are
from India at two point eight million, China two point
five million, and the Philippines at two million. In Fyi,
over two hundred thous other immigrants are adoptees from different
Asian countries. According to some research, with the help of
(16:05):
the White House Initiative on Asian Americans, Native Hawaiians and
Pacific Islanders Commissions, and Asian American Adoptees, Kim Park Nelson
was able to get some more specific numbers as of
August of twenty twenty four, so they break it down
like this. The largest group of adoptees are around one
hundred and seventeen thousand are from Korea. The second would
be from China at ninety seven thousand, ten thousand from Vietnam,
(16:27):
ten thousand from India, seven thousand from the Philippines, three
thousand from Taiwan, and two thousand from Thailand, and with
that around one thousand from Hong Kong. Going back to
the overview, while researching the attitudes of Asian Americans and
their immigrant families, most of the research has been from
twenty twenty four pre Trump like it has to be stated, however,
(16:50):
the stats are not glowing for the Asian American community,
though it does show that sixty one percent of Asian
American voters went for Harris in the twenty twenty four election,
and it's went down by seven percent from the twenty
twenty election, and seemingly every election cycle the percentage continues
(17:10):
to go down for left leaning voters or for Democratic voters.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
According to my Asian Voice dot com, the data shows
Chinese Americans were the lowest and Democratic votes at fifty
three percent, which was the giant downfall from twenty twenty,
which showed seventy two percent of votes for Biden. However,
the Japanese American votes were higher for Harris than they
were for Biden.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Right. One thing that many of the researchers have shown
is that Asian Americans have slowly started to lean again
more and more conservative. Of course, this was again most
of the research in twenty twenty four. I think things
may slightly shift as we've seen a lot more naturalized citizens,
green card holders, visa holders from Asia, yes, the continent
(18:00):
being a part of this deportation sweep. So in fact,
some like the attitudes of some of the other marginalized
communities believe the idea that if they do the things
quote right in the right way, then they are exempt
from the conservative ideology of immigrants and fear mongering of immigrants.
(18:23):
With the crackdown against immigrants, both those who have worked
to legally obtain citizenships and those who haven't, the amount
of people being unlawfully picked up by ice has become
more and more frequent, with the government using the opportunity
to spend more money to increase the.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Profits of private equity.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yes, I think, just as a reminder, when we have
detention centers they are privately owned, the contracts they are
privately owned. This is all equity. When we have contracts
with I don't know Uganda, this is a private capital venture.
As a reminder. However, this new practice has dented some
(19:04):
of the capitalists ventures like the Henn Dai plant that
was projected to bring in lots of jobs and profits
with the help of the South Korean deal in the
state of Georgia. After they rated a newly built plant
looking for a few immigrants, they crashed with their assault rifles,
tactical gears, mass and shackles and very little identifiers are
(19:25):
resting around four hundred and seventy five people, shackling and
detaining them.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
With no due process.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
And I want to put this caveat here because I've
been kind of really irritated in this narrative by South
Korean people, in South Korean immigrants, or any Asian like,
any Asian American people when they talk about this and
be like they were unduly processed. The amount of force
that they use to find quote unquote a few of
(19:53):
the undocumented BT does many of these people that are
being hunted down, if I guess for the lack of
better terms, they are in the middle of getting their
due process. They are in the middle of getting their citizenships,
abiding by showing up at courts, abiding by going to
their dates. They are being everything they are meant to do.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
They are paying.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Taxes this level where they don't pay taxes, yes they do,
Yes they do, Yes they do, and they don't receive
any of the benefits for paying those taxes. It's still
obnoxious that they even if it was just three or
four people, it still is a bad, bad practice and
still inhumane, just to put that out there. It shouldn't
(20:41):
be just because so many people from the good workers,
as Trump would say, the high skilled workers, as he
had said, it should be said that if there were
still the three or four, we should all still be ashamed.
So I want to put that caveat there because I'm
tired of hearing oh, just a South Korea's Oh. What
(21:01):
it did do is brought it into an international scale
and brought it to the attention of people who hold
money and ties to money. So that did help with that.
But we should be upset that the original narrative was
the four or five. I know there's this the woman
in South Georgia who was running for Congress who thought
she was doing something real big and then lied about
(21:22):
the same which we need to come back up to
an episode of saying they were being trafficked, they're being enslaved.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
No, they're not. You are a liar.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
You're putting that same narrative that many conservative white women
who want to clutch their pearls and say we have
to save the children and women, and you try to
change that narrative into this when you figured out, oh,
I just cost our country billions of dollars, specifically our state,
that's a whole different episode.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
I'm very upset moving on.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
But with all of that, many who were present of
the Korean workers, they did have visas. Now some of
these visas were incorrect, the paperwork was done incorrect. The
H one B visa program is very selective and very confusing,
apparently even for other governments to fill out for high
skilled labor, as they say, And I can't seem to
(22:17):
get a number of how many were approved. Like listen,
everything's going out the window because the back and forth
narrative of who's wrong and right and how many have
been told to go ahead and go so they doesn't.
They didn't slow down the possibility of opening the plant,
that amount of which actually happened. By the way, after
all of this went down, Mark Rubio as well as
(22:40):
Trump was like, why don't you stay, We promise we
won't arrest you again, not guaranteeing a visa, not guaranteeing
the right paperwork. They just said, trust us bro, which
is I'm pretty sure how it started.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
By the way, trust us bro. We got you. Oh
my bad.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Many of the SECO fans have argued that the South
Koreans were illegally here without the proper paperwork. Again, the
trust me bro happens a lot. All the while, Trump
himself stated that the skilled workers were welcomed here and
through the negotiations of Vio enticed them to continue their
work here, with no actual efforts or guarantees that something
would like this wouldn't happen again again. It really was
(23:20):
like a bro promise this time for sure, this time.
No no, no, no, no, no, no, you're you're the
good ones. He really did say that. Yes, I hate
it here anyway. Governor Kemp of Georgia, who apparently was
not aware of the raid yet he's actually stated that
he didn't know this was going to happen, has tried
(23:41):
to quietly hide under the radar by not publicly speaking
against the raid, as he just made quite a bit
of money with the opening of the latest iceed attention
centers here, but did make a trip to South Korea
to try to smooth things over.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
I'm not sure how that went.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
There was a lot of oward like photo ops, yeah,
but no actual progress. And I love the fact that
he has not yet once made a statement except for
being like, I didn't know this and then just traveled
to South Korea.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Yep, there are conversations of lawsuits coming from South Korea
due to the inhumane treatment of their citizens while being
detained by ICE in the US. However, as of October,
it seems there has been some agreement to allow for
South Korean workers to continue their work, but no real changes,
as PBS reports saying this quote. South Korea has called
(24:32):
for more fundamental steps, such as creating a new music
category to expand access for skilled workers, but US officials
at the Washington meeting said major changes would be difficult
because of legislative constraints. According to a statement from the
South Korean Ministry.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
So literally they don't care enough to fix it, but
they're really still begging them to come. Oh and this
is also at the same time that President Trump's administration.
Trump is like, give me billions of dollars for you
to open these factories from both Japan and South Korea,
and both of them are like what what of course
(25:09):
this is after he gave billions to Argentina. What anyway,
So the sentiments within South Korea has been pretty intense.
As a country that is all about holding their officials accountable.
They have overthrown and impeached many a precedents successfully, some
have been assassinated. I don't think that's the citizens, but
just saying they have been quite loud about the treatment
(25:32):
of their people, and the administration continues to not be
held accountable for the distress of their people, which is
why this lawsuit could happen, and it probably should and
would do some major things if it were to go forward.
Of course, the tariffs and trade wars between the US
and other Asian countries have not made any of this better,
which not surprising. I have been on South Korean TikTok
(25:58):
where they are continually making fun of the US of
Trump and the specific woman in South Georgia like they
are going after her.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
They're being real mean.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
If you know anything about Korean medicines, their mean so
and it doesn't help that the administration has made the
views on Asian Americans less favorable as well. According to
the University of Washington, they have an article from the
Asian American Foundation, which released a study in May of
twenty twenty five which shows that the US views have
(26:29):
not been great. So these are some of the key
findings that they quote. The results reveal a lot regarding
the perception of Asian Americans in the US, including three
key findings of Americans think Asian Americans are more loyal
to their country of origin than the US, and that's
double of what it was in twenty twenty one. More
than a quarter of Americans are concerned that Chinese Americans
(26:51):
are a threat to US society, especially when it comes
to national security.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
At the same time, worldwide, it seems that the US
may be falling out of face very while China is
starting to look real good. From some other pe research
from July of twenty twenty five, they say this quote.
Across twenty four countries Pew Research Center surveyed this spring,
more people have a positive view of the United States
than of China. However, this gap is closing as views
(27:17):
of the US have become more negative while views of
China have turned more positive.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Right, so the increasing amount, like in percentage wise, is
changing pretty quickly, and they are starting to see China
as possibly the better power or more power, especially when
it comes to technology, in trade, and in labor, which
is really scary for so many reasons, because neither China
or the US are great. Let's just be very very clear.
(27:44):
They list Israel as one of the countries who definitely
favor US over China. But countries like Mexico, Canada, Indonesia
and several others they seem to be going in their
favorability to China.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Mexico and Canada. I feel like that's explanatory.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
No Ah, I mean, everybody's everybody's suffering from what's happening
in the United States right now, really, I mean mostly,
but Mexico and Canada. I do feel a particular I'm
so sorry, to be fair.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Like our administration have threatened war when both.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Of them living with a roommate has a disorder where
every four years they completely.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
They're like, we're gonna take you what right now?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
So, I mean, I don't think that that's not too surprising.
I will say, from what we can gather, many of
the Asian areas are.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
All about China.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
That is increased as once upon a time that wasn't
the case. So yes, with the likes of blaming Asian
people for cod and the rise of Asian hate, it
isn't hard to see that within the Asian communities there's
(29:04):
also some divisiveness. I mean, obviously, when we have this
conversation about the republic Democrats of voting split, like the
fact that it's so close is upsetting in itself. But
something that has been annoying the hell out of me
is this conversation of the Oxford Study. So for those
of you who have never heard of it, and I
(29:26):
wish I was you, I wish I was you, we're
going to talk about the study. So in the study,
this specific quote, which is being used a lot more
so in TikTok than anywhere else. I think it has
now gone over to Instagram and such is loosely referencing
a study completed in twenty ten that was titled the
New Susie Wong Narrative Assumptions of White Male and Asian
(29:50):
Female Relationships and these were done by Asian women, I
believe so from Joysauce dot com quote. This study examines
Roman Antico relationships between white men and Asian women using
the context set by the nineteen sixty film The World
of Suzie Wong. According to the study, is generally believed
that this film set the stereotypical standard of naive subservience
(30:13):
paired with hypersexuality that follows Asian women in Western world,
especially when in relation to the white men that seek
them out. Essentially, it was a report about fetishizing of
Asian women in the early film industries portrayal of women
Asian women in again the film industry. The article goes
(30:34):
on to say this, The study concludes that the stereotypical
Susie Wong esque representation of Asian females when associated romantically
with white men has become internalized and normalized. So it's
talking about the fact that this was really bad, especially
when we see and portray Asian women, and it still
happens today as being that subservient pretty much male order
(30:58):
bride conversation. So we're thinking, like, especially with that conversation
of like war torn world and war made bride, where
the soldier goes overseas to an Asian country, takes a
wife from bring her back, and because she is so
out of her realm that all she can do is
worship the white man. But this has turned into oh,
(31:20):
this is all Asian women. Correct, But as of late,
many have used the term Oxford study as a way
to denigrate any Asian women who is dating a white person.
I will say I have seen people who try to
use this term in reverse as a reverse Oxford study
when it's an Asian man with white women that hasn't stuck,
(31:42):
but I've seen people try it, I will say that,
which is odd because the majority of people using this
phrase are actually Asian men. Are those who are hiding
behind a digital Asian mask kind of you know, like
you know what I'm saying, like pretending they're Asian themselves.
But this current trend has really shown the persistent need
(32:04):
to sexualize and fetishize Asian women at the same time
using it in the most misogynistic ways possible. Literally most
of the comments are only under Asian women influencers, and
in the minute they find out that there's a white
person as their partner that is full of it. It
is completely I will say. They also have added comfort
(32:25):
women as a term for South Koreans. That is one
of the most offensive things you could do because the
history of it is so sensitive and he still has
yet to be resolved. This with the added out data
study of how most men prefer Asian women, which again
is part of the stereotype of Asian women being sexualized
and phantilized and subjugated.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Back to the Joysauce article quote TikTok, scholars have been
digging into other data from dating apps, including one creator
who recently did a deep dive into an article published
by The Daily Mail in twenty thirteen. Amongst the plethora
of potentially outdated race focused dating app data, this article
stated that most men prefer Asian women with the exception
(33:05):
of Asian men. Though both studies are now more than
ten years old, their impact on the current relationship zeitgeist
is still holding strong and often encourages misplaced blame for
the emasculation of Asian men on Asian women. As clearly
evidenced by the Men's Rights Asians movement, it became clear
(33:26):
that members of the community see Asian women as playing
an active role in maintaining the stereotypes placed on Asian men.
They often contended that choosing non Asian partners means undermining
and emasculating Asian men, therefore perpetuating white supremacy.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
It's a wonderful form of gaslighting.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yeah, to be your fault for sure, right.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Oh and yeah, we talked a bit about the feminist
movement in South Korea and the men's rights groups there,
which have caused a small movement light for b movement
that has gained a lot of popularity around the world,
including here in the US, and we're not saying that
South Korea's FORB movement is the reason for the decline
of the birth rate everywhere. I think it just finally
(34:15):
was named as like, yeah, finally, yeah yeah, okay, yeah,
because we have seen a huge decline in South Korea,
in Japan, in the US and so many more of
the countries.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Maybe it's Asian women's fault for that too.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Again, the comment is seemingly innocent, but the usage is
poignant and purposeful. From a Guardian article written by Steffi Cow,
she writes this, the submissive, sexualized perception of Asian women persist.
They are stereotyped by demeaning depictions of male order brides
and comfort women, and eroticize in wayfu art misogynistic memes
(34:52):
about Asian women in interracial relationships about online including Oxford study.
These are layered comments that show both hate and disdain
for women who choose to date non Asian men. It's
something that has to be studied. Is only perpetuates the
lessening of Asian women's humanity.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Right back to Cow's article quote, much of this misogyny
is nurtured within men's rights, Asian MRI Asians groups online
which organize harassment campaigns towards Asian women who date non
Asian people. The group's ire stems from another racist stereotype
with repercussions in the dating realm, that Asian men are
(35:33):
emasculated and unattractive. Asian men were revealed as one of
the least swiped on racial groups in a twenty fourteen
OkCupid report. Much of the recent derogatory language around the
dating habits of Asian women has been coined in the
Mr Asians space. Wmaf or a white male Asian female
relationship Lou an Asian woman who rejects Asian men in
(35:56):
favor of white men. Banana ng an Asian woman who
used today white men but now seeks a relationship with
an Asian man.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Now with the popularity in the rise of K pop
and like K dramas, C dramas, jpop, I think things
are probably going to be shifting because they have become
a new fixation on Asian men, which is wonderful. Again,
this comes back to gas lighting Asian women. That's your
fault that we don't have a relationship like it is
(36:27):
a new form of insul like it's racial now again.
I talked about this before when we talked about online dating,
I rarely got hit on.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
By a lot of Asian men. I will say that,
but I.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Just remember one incident in which the dude, this is
his way of like trying to get my attention, instead
of just saying, hey, I like your picture. Hey that's
a cute dog, because I always figured a doll probably,
But instead he immediately started with I know you're probably
not gonna come talk to me because you probably date
only white men, because you won't even give me a chance,
Like that.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Was the amiting the opening.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
I was like, wow, well, definitely not gonna talk to
you now because I'm scared of you, Like I'm immediately scared,
immediately scared. But there is this heaviness to that conversation,
especially when we see Oxford City, like the part that
gets me with people commenting, of course there's trolls. There's
always going to be trolled. It's that level of like
did you even know them? I didn't reject you, I
(37:25):
don't know you.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
What is this?
Speaker 2 (37:27):
What is this new level of disdain for someone happy
in a relationship. And there's a whole different conversation when
we talk about interracial dating. It may be outlawed soon
because we are seeing a slippery slope of things that
come so in our Asians, You're gonna about to be
real happy.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
I guess, I don't know, probably not.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Exactly, but there's so many things in this conversation and
the amount of times that I have seen the comment
Oxford City makes me so angry because it comes back
to re stereotyping and dehumanizing Asian women again, which you're like,
we would make it so many progressive steps, and now
(38:09):
we're back here with just one statement. And yet actually
the researchers for the actual Oxford Studies, which has nothing
to do with this, necessarily has said like, no, this
was never our intent. What is happening. This is actually
the opposite of what we wanted. As well as the
fact that the origination was some random dude saying there
(38:29):
needs to be an Oxford study because he saw a
happy couple who was an Asian woman with a white
man about women like her. So it wasn't even really
in referencing to that study, but there is an absolute
belief that is a real study too.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
Yeah, it feels kind of like the Mandela effect for
everybody's like, I know, I remember this happened.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
This is a study what you think it is.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Nope, but there's a lot again and so much more
in conversation that we talk about. I didn't even talk
about the fact that there was plenty of naturalized Asian
students who are getting their citizenship revoked based on who
they are protesting. For the fact that our naturalization status
(39:20):
could be revoked based on whether or not the government
thinks that we are a threat. We haven't even talked
about the LGBTQ to it all, and how that isn't
another layer in this intersectional conversation of what.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
We see every day.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Like I said, the Asian community is a giant community
and for us to ignore the things that are happening
in the US is absurd. But at the same time
I understand for those of us who don't feel stable
and are scared are trying to figure out how to
best walk this line of trying to seek justice and
advocacy versus self preservation or with self preservation us not versus.
(40:01):
And in that conversation of like, yes, I'm glad South
Korea got a wake up call to understand the US
is not about you. But at the same time that
it had to get to that model minority conversation in
order to see and highlight the awful treatment and inhumane
(40:25):
treatment that the US policies have put onto other people.
There's a lot, There's a lot. There's so much happening
again with this topic alone, and honestly, Annie, I refuse
to do a two parter again. I'm trying my best,
so we'll end it here, but I fully expect we
will have many, many more conversations about this in the future,
(40:48):
as long as we have this job.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Yep, yep, yep. Well listeners, As always, we would love
to hear from you. If you any thoughts about this
or any resources, always appreciated. You can email us at
Hello at Stuffwhennever Told You dot com. You can find
us on Blue Skuy at mom Stuff podcast or on
Instagram and to talk at stuff We Never Told You.
We're also on YouTube. We have some new merchandise at
(41:14):
Cotton Bureau, and we have a book you can get
wherever you get your books. Thanks as always to our
super producer Christina, executive producer and our contributor Joey. Thank
you and thanks to you for listening Stuff Never Told You.
This book should i heart Radio. For more podcasts from
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