October 21, 2009 • 25 mins
In this episode of Stuff Mom Never Told You, Molly and Cristen tackle a "sensitive" topic -- male circumcision. Listen in as they discuss circumcision in detail, from ancient and modern procedures to the pros and cons of the practice.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stump Mom? Never told
you from house Stop works dot com. Hey there, and
welcome to the podcast. Is this Kristen Mrs Molly? So Molly,
(00:20):
today we are talking about circumcision. Yes, and um. You
know another episode we did what is the lipstick index
or the lipstick indicators that's sometimes called UM, which is
basically and we've talked about this in multiple episodes now,
but for those of you who haven't heard about it,
it's UM this idea that lipstick sales are correlated to
(00:43):
the economy. Basically, when the economy goes down, lipstick sales
go up because women buy it as a small luxury.
So with our circumcision research, Molly, I've come up something
new that I think economist seem to pay attention to.
That's called the circumcision index. Yes, Chris has already looked
into trademarking this term, patenting it so that if anyone
(01:03):
else says circumcision index, they have to pay her. Yeah,
pay up people, Um. Because the reason why I came
up with a circumcision index, aside from my innate brilliance
is because circumcisions are actually down in the down economy,
because it's an extra few hundred dollars on top of
the medical bills for having a little baby boy. So Ever,
(01:26):
since um insurance companies started cutting off payments for circumcisions,
they've seen a drop in the number of boys getting
their foreskin removed. Right, and in the states where it's
still a covered procedure they're having um there's the rates
of circumcision are still high. Basically, so that the thinking
goes that without health insurance, circumcisions, circumcisions drop. Yeah, and
(01:50):
this is um. This comes from a story in Newsweek
from April two thousand nine, and there was a report
by researchers at u c l A that said that
the circumcision right in states offering coverage was on average
higher than states that don't. So, uh, the economy might
be influencing men's foreskins. Now, perhaps at this point you're thinking, Hey,
(02:13):
it's mom's stuff. Why are they're talking about circumcisions because
we're all about periods here, But you know, we heard
all about women's periods. We want to hear about men's penises.
You know, at the end of the day, foreskins effect us. All. Yes,
I mean, let's say your new mother, you've got to
make this decision. You've got three bucks at your disposal
to have the circumcision or do you do you skip that? Yeah?
(02:34):
And if you're a guy, you know it's part of
your anatomy, so obvious. Yeah. And I've talked about and
if you're a girl encountering that part of the anatomy
for the first time, you might be thrown. Yeah, what's
that like? Let's talk about circumcision, Mollie. Let's talk about
the wonderful world of the male foreskin, right, So let's
talk some anatomy first, Kristen. We've got the foreskin, which
(02:57):
is a portion of skin on the penis that covers
and text the tip of the penis, also known as
the glands, and the foreskin is basically a protective shield
for the flaccid penis. It protects it against Nixon cuts
and excess rubbage. Yes, as the writer of this article
house circumcision works. Tom She've put it. It's a tough
(03:19):
world out there for a flacc of penis because you've
got abrasion from undergarments, you've got cold weather and dry air.
Apparently a lot of things can hurt that sensitive organ. Yeah,
and it's a pretty significant part of male genitalia because
the foreskin can account for one third to nearly one
half of total penile skin. And uh, then on the
(03:40):
inside of the foreskin, uh, he describes it as similar
to the inside of your mouth because it helps keep uh,
the penis naturally lubricated. Yes, and it's also not dead skin.
It's got all these nerve bundles, blood cells. This will
be important later because our question today is our circumcision
is really necessary and some people say that those very
(04:01):
nerve bundles maybe the reason that it's not. And there
is a little piece of skin called the tissue I
should say called the frenulum, and that's what connects the
foreskin to the glands. And the frenulum will come more
into play when we talk about how a circumcision procedure
actually happens. Now, Kristen, just as all penises are different,
(04:24):
all four skins are different. Some men have foreskins that
just cover the entire glands, some only have partially covered. Yeah,
and there are different conditions that can be associated with
that because sometimes in the case of a man who
has pomosis, his foreskin is not going to fully retract
when his penis becomes erect, which can be really painful.
(04:45):
And then on the flip side of that, you can
have paraphimosis, in which the foreskin will retract but it
won't cover the penis back up once it has gone
to wrist. Yeah, so it causes a lot of swelling. Um.
There are also there's also balin postphitis. Is that right, Christen?
Sure sounds good. That's a swelling of the mucous surfaces
(05:06):
of the foreskin, which can If that happens a lot,
then you may need a circumcision. And there's also a
skin disease that affects that area called balonitis zerotica of
litterons perhaps I'm gonna call it b XO and um.
That can cause pain and it can also be linked
with fumosis. So there are a lot of medical reasons
why you might not want your foreskin around. And on
(05:28):
top of that, since we've got all this lubrication going
on on the underside of the foreskin, uh and bacteria
that can get caught up in their men need to
keep that area clean earls, they're going to have a
build up of something called smegma, which is a cheesy
discharge which doesn't sound very pleasant. So if you do
have your foreskin, you've got to clean it, basically, is
(05:50):
the point, because no one wants any smegma hanging around,
and that can lead to infections. You can get a
urinary tract infection. It does not sound. Does not sound
plus that which I think you know. These are just
a few of the reasons. We're gonna get into all
of them later. Why people thought, hey, let's just get
rid of this problem. Let's get rid of foreskin. Let's
do a circumcision. So let's talk about how you actually
(06:11):
get rid of the skin. Yes, let's go two into
the hospital room with that little little infant boy and
find out what doctors do. There's either they either use
a clamp or something called a plasta bell device to
get rid of that foreskin. So here's how you use
(06:33):
a clamp. You separate, You separate the foreskin out and
then protect the rest of the penis. And then, as
the writer of this article puts it, you crush or
cut a ring of skin from the penis. And so
it happens really fast. And if you use that other device,
a plasta bill, it just kind of like you stay.
It stays in there, and then um, the skin just
(06:54):
falls off. It clings onto it for a while. Um. Now,
if you are an adult male and you decide to
get circumcised, things are a little bit different. It's a
little more involved of a procedure where they actually have
to snip off manually cut off the foreskin. Yes. On
the on the one hand, it's probably positive to know
(07:15):
you're not gonna have a clamp involved. On the other hand,
you're gonna have some scissors involved. Yes, I take your poison. Man.
So what they do is, um, they make a slit
in the foreskin and cut it away basically, and then
they make a stitch to hold it in place. And
it takes about thirty minutes. Now, and both procedures, both
for a child and for an adult, you're probably gonna
(07:35):
have some local anesthetic, little anesthesia. You're not gonna be under.
It's gonna be you know, it's gonna be awake, yeah,
for that, and it's gonna take some healing. Even for
for the child. I think the healing process is a
little shorter. But you know, for men. Obviously there's not
gonna be any sort of intercourse or anything like that
involved for the next little while. And you know, I
(07:56):
mean it's sensitive area, so it's not gonna be entirely painless. Now,
I'm not gonna lie Kristen. When I read how the
actual procedure worked, even though its medical procedure, I was
just like, why would anyone do this? It seems it
seems like a bad thing. So let's talk about historically
why people have chosen to cut away the foreskin. Well,
(08:17):
people have been circumcising penises for quite a while. There's
a rich history of male circumcision, and a lot of
times we think of it as going back to the
story of Abraham and the Bible where he makes a
covenant with God to protect the Jewish people. Um. And
you know, he goes ahead and circumcises himself if I'm
(08:40):
not mistaken, on the age of ninety nine. At the
age of ninety nine and then beyond that, um, he
was directed to circumcise mail males by the eighth day
of life. And if not uncircumcised men would have to
be cast away from the Jewish tribe. So he circumcises
his sons, and this sets this president that now about
(09:01):
of American Jews are circumcised, and of course goes through
and circumcises his son Ishmael. But um he gets cast
out and he becomes the forefather of the modern day
Arab people. And so he passes down that tradition to
his ancestors, which include the prophet Mohammed. Yeah, and since
Mohammed there, well, there's nothing in the Koran that's explicitly
(09:21):
says you must circumcise your male children. But since Mohammed
was known to have had a circumcised penis, a majority
of Muslims um will circumcise their sons. And in fact,
according to the World Health Organization, almost two out of
every three circumcised men on the planet are Muslim. Yeah.
Fun fact. Now, Muslims will differ when they actually do
(09:45):
the procedure. Some will do it when the baby is
an infant, like the Jewish people do, or they'll wait
till it can be more of like a rite of passage. Um. Now,
it's not so much a big deal. In Christianity, no one,
most Christian sex don't endorse the procedure. You kind of
do your own research and um. Other religions such as
Buddhism and Hinduism, they don't have a stance on it either.
(10:06):
But the thing is it did not start just with
Abraham and the Jewish people, because if you go back
and look at historical documents, the ancient Egyptians probably passed
the practice onto the Jews and they were practicing this
thousands of years before the birth of Christ. Yes, I
was reading about priests who would have like this golden thumbnail,
(10:29):
and that's how they would just like sort of press
off the foreskin was this big thumbnail. But so even
though we think of it as this ancient biblical directive,
it was probably practiced before then. There's evidence that Minds
and Aztecs did this. Um. It's it's in ancient history
going all the way back. Well, it's also interesting because,
like you mentioned, Minds and Aztecs also practiced this, but
(10:51):
it also um happens uh in native parts of Australia, Africa, Asia.
It's pretty global. It's pretty clow will except in a
few places. It looked like Europe and South America are
not really on the circumcision train. Yeah, so, ladies, if
you're traveling now, circumcision for medical purposes for those health
(11:12):
reasons that you and I touched on briefly really come
into vogue in the nineteenth century, when doctors begin treating
adult famosis. But one little fun fact too, is that
during the Victorian era, doctors became fans of circumcising men
to treat as a therapeutic treatment for masturbation because they
(11:33):
thought that masturbation led to insanity, and since the foreskin
is basically like a nice little lubricated sock, that can
make it easier to do. According to some sources, obviously
I'm not a primary source on that um, they thought
that by circumcising and then it would make them less
likely to masturbate and then less likely to become insane. Yes,
(11:56):
as the article put it, it was a source of mischief. Yes,
and we need to nip that right in the bud
with a little snip SNeW. You gotta love Victorian era
medical practices, you really do. Yeah, you can't fault them
at all. They were creative. So that's when the number
of circumcisions really begins to spike, when it becomes sort
of like the default thing to do, even if you're
not religious. About your reasons for circumcising. They do at
(12:19):
this point, bringing anesthesia into which I think was a
great directive. Um And and you know, the sad thing
is that it was used as sort of a thing
that you could do for all sorts of ailments, everything
from impotence to homosexuality. They thought, cut off the foreskin,
everything will be better. Yeah, yikes, But Molly, in recent years,
the rate of circumcision has actually dropped in the U. S.
(12:40):
And it does I think has something to do with
the circumcision index that I mentioned earlier, that extra two
or three hundred dollars that will be tacked onto the
tub that parents have to pay if they want to
have their child circumcised. But um in two thousand five,
the percentage of circumcised boys dropped from sixty five percent
of male infants to only fifty six percent, which I
(13:04):
was surprised at. I was more surprised about where the
breakdowns occur. Did you know that three out of four
Midwestern babies are circumcised, Well, only slightly more than half
of all Southern babies are circumcised. Yeah, but then in
the West, very little circumcision. Only about of infants are circumcised,
and the group that probably is least likely to circumcised
(13:25):
are Hispanics. But another fun fact there we go. It's
I when once I read this article, I started walking
around just look at people trying to guess, is that wrong?
I don't know. It's odd, but not wrong, Molly. Okay.
So the next question, Molly, that we have to address
in this circumcision discussion is whether or not there are
any health benefits associated with removing the foreskin. Because we
(13:49):
have all of these religious traditions, these cultural traditions, But
is there really any medical point in putting that placid
bell clamp on that little baby penis and make and
the fores can fall off a few days later. As
I mentioned, they avoid all those problems of pomosis of
an unclean penis, of this magma. And you've probably heard
about how in Africa they're making circumcision a huge part
(14:12):
of their campaign to lower HIV rates. Yes, they have
found that circumcised, circumcising men can lower the rate of
female to male HIV transmission. And this year the Bill
and Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation just donated fifty million
dollars um for I think it's up to six fifty
(14:33):
thousand male circumcisions in Africa to hopefully lower the rate
of HIV transmission. And the thinking behind this is that
the cells in the foreskin are particularly susceptible to binding
with HIV. Yeah, these are called langer Hans cells, and
they are present in the foreskin, and there are sentinel
(14:54):
cells that are supposed to detect anti or antigens which
are bad things coming into your body and then alert
the immune system to fight it off. But the problem
is they attached to UH these HIV cells and obviously
the immune system can't fight them off. And since the
foreskin is so sensitive to ripping and tearing UH, it
makes them a lot more susceptible to getting those HIV
(15:16):
cells um in the body and binding too those langer
Han cells, and then HIV spreads throughout the body. Right,
so it will cut down the rate. As Kristen said,
a female to mail transition transmission. It has no effect
on mail to female transmission or on mail to mail transmission.
So some critics will um be against this practice, mainly
because isn't it better to educate them about things like condoms?
(15:40):
You know, once you circumcise the guys, you're going to
go out and just think that he's immune from this. UM.
So it's it's somewhat controversial, by the studies that they've
done it with have been like really effective, right um
and one studying from two thousand five in South Africa, UM,
they found a sixty three decrease in HIV transmission for circumcisement.
In a you gand and study, there was a forty
(16:01):
eight percent reduction in AIDS infection UM and then in
Kenya they had a fifty reduction. And because they had
such staggering results, they actually ended the study prematurely because
it was basically unfair to the uncircumcised control group because, uh,
the circumcision was so effective against HIV transmission and it's
(16:23):
not just UM you know HIV in Africa. Also, uncircumcised
men are about twice as likely to be infected with
u HPV and they're also more risk for chlamydia and syphilis.
But then the people who are anti circumcision will say, hey,
just use a condom. Same diff Yeah, you just need
to practice good hygiene, keep the foreskin clean, keep the
(16:45):
bacteria out, put on a condom, and you're gonna lower
your rates of HIV and STD transmission anyway. Right, So
let's go through a few of the reasons why you
wouldn't circumcise the boy besides those. First of all, Molly,
and this is something we talked about a lot on
Mom Steff. Choice. Yes, if you circumcise the baby boy,
what choice does he have in the matter. Um, would
(17:08):
he make the same decision to cut off part of
his penis when he was twelve, twenty thirty? Um? And then,
like I said, there are all those nerve bundles, So
some people think that an uncircumcised mail has a little
bit more fun when it comes to sex. Yeah, there's
the nerve bundles and that natural lubrication from the foreskin,
so they could be missing out on more sexual pleasure.
(17:31):
And it also has a lot to do with whether
the father is circumcised or not. There's a study from
the World Health Organization that found that nine outton men
who are circumcised will have their son's circumcised as well,
and of uncircumcised men will have their sons stay natural. Right,
And you know, while we talked about some of the
(17:52):
health problems that you could face if you know you
never have. My most instident is an unnecessary procedure. What
else would you put in baby and baby under the
knife for that was unnecessary? And they think that it
could have psychological repercussions down the road of that childhood
trauma of pain and suffering. Yeah, it's a compelling argument,
(18:13):
it is. And you know, one thing, a topic that
Chris and I will cover at some point on mom
stuff is female genital mutilation where they cut out you know,
you know, it depends how much they'll cut out, but
sometimes they'll cut out all of a woman's reproductive system.
And obviously that is wrong. And so they're saying that
if you think that's wrong, then this is sort of
the equivalent for a male is a circumcision. Now, I
(18:35):
was reading one article that said a female general mutilation
is more like cutting off half the penis for a guy. Yeah,
it's so it's the way all pleasure for a woman.
It's not like once you cut off the foreskinn, a
man can't become a rouse. Yea. So it's it's not
necessarily a one to one argument, but I do think
that that's interesting to think about. Is there's we really
would frown upon just putting a girl under the knife
for the same reason. But like you said, we're gonna
(18:57):
save female genital mutilation for another podcast um at a
different time. But let's say, Molly, Um, a baby boy
was circumcised and he grows up and he's really not
happy about the fact that he does not have his
for skin feels a little incomplete. For skin back, what
can you do? There are a few options. There are
(19:17):
non surgical means, which means you stretch what you've got left. Um.
It involves using weights, straps, and manual stretching. So I
don't know if it sounds exactly fun. I've never I've
never talked to anyone who has done this, but that's
one option to try and just get it to come
back up and cover a little bit more. Yeah, and
there's this other method that involves inflating tiny balloons under
(19:39):
the penile skin to prompt new skin cell growth, which
will results which will result in permanent skin gain. I
don't really understand exactly how that happens with the tiny balloons.
But as a non surgical option, there are surgical options.
If you want plastic surgery on the penis, that is
an option they will take skin from another part of
(19:59):
the body and graft it onto the remaining for skin.
They do say in this article that the one drawback
is that the skin might be different colors and graft
so be sort of like a I would like to
think of it as a rainboat for skin. That makes
it sound a little nicer than actually how the article
puts it. But I I probably shouldn't make jokes about foreskin,
(20:21):
but you know, Molly, our listeners can make jokes about
foreskin if they'd like. If you guys have any opinions
about circumcision, whether or not you think that it is
necessary or is not necessary, and then we definitely want
to hear your thoughts on circumcision because, like I said,
me and Molly are only secondary sources on this. We
we cannot personally relate, so we would like to hear
(20:44):
your thoughts. Um please email us with your foreskin jokes
or other and more elevated conversation at mom stuff at
how stuffworks dot com. And in the meantime, let's read
some listener mail. All right, I'm gonna kick off a
list of mail today with an email from Russell, who
(21:04):
wrote about our episode on whether women's magazines do more
harm than good. And I have to say, Krista, whenever
a guy wrote in on women's magazines, they always gave
them the big thumb down. Thumbs down they liked that
Ben's magazines had the horribly embarrassing stories. But here's what
Russell writes. As for the sexual tips, more often than
not their way off base. And the best advice either
(21:25):
member of a couple when it comes to sex is
to communicate with your partner. But that is only one
line of text, and it would be tough to sell
a subscription based on that alone, even though that might
be the only thing a couple really needs. Perhaps these
magazines should rely less on the idea that each new
episode will unlock secrets that your guy is just too
embarrassed to bring up himself. Perhaps they should dedicate their
sexual sections two ideas and things to do an experiment
(21:46):
with with your partner. And as for the idea of
them damaging the youth, I think it lies more with
how the child is raised. If a young girl sees
her mother treated Cosmo like a Bible, she will likely
do the same. But if her mother says it's just
trash your fluff with little or no real value, much
like a new grocery store romance novel. She will hopefully
take on that same attitude. All right, Um, I've got
(22:07):
an email from Jackie and this is in reference to
our hair podcast. Says, Hello, Molly and Kristen. I've had long,
and I mean long hair my entire life. It was
ridiculously long as it went to my button. Sure, I've
known people was longer hair than that, but that was
the style that I maintained. I thought it was pretty
happy with my hair for the most part, but recently
(22:28):
my life had been feeling a little way down. I
felt as though there was something that wasn't right, so
she decided to cut her hair. Initially, I went to
the shoulder and donated all of my hair to Locks
of Love, and I adored my new hair, but a
lot of friends were very upset about it. None of
them knew me any other way, and a lot of
them acted as though I betrayed them and cutting off
(22:49):
the hair. They got over it, and once they did,
I went for a boy cut, not bothering to warn
them this time. I've got nothing but compliments since then.
People say I look more mature unless princessy, which is
the word used to describe me in the past, more
energetic and just all around more awesome, and most importantly,
I no longer feel way down. I love my hair,
(23:09):
and so does my boyfriend, not that his opinion would
have changed my mind in this case. After twenty one years,
I finally have a haircut I actually like, and not
one I was maintaining for everyone around me. It's short,
easy to take care of, it looks cute on me,
and I don't have to schedule my life around my hair.
I say foodie on people who shunned short hair on women.
It's made a better woman out of me. Sounds good.
(23:30):
Shall I read one more? Yes? Please? This is from Amy,
and her subject line caught my eye. It was nerdy
blonde has something to say about hair, She writes, I
just finished listening to your podcast on hair and I
wanted to write you about this. Blonds have more fun stereotype.
First of all, I was a very nerdy piano and
clarinet playing book reading completely unpopular library rat as a
(23:51):
child and teenager. It really didn't seem to make a
difference that I had blonde hair at the time. My
teachers and peers always seemed to respect me, and they
didn't seem to expect me to act like a blonde, mostly,
I believe because everyone had known me for a long time.
This changed, however, and really adversely affected me. In college
and especially in graduate school. All of the successful and
smart brunettes made snide comments about my hair, while my
(24:11):
male professors either dismissed me as stupid or asked me
out on dates. In fact, eight different professors asked me
out over the course of four years in college and
graduate school. I was told by my advisors that my
students would like me more if I was more like
a cheerleader. How was I supposed to cheerlead my students
to the history of Western music? Is beyond me? Give
me a B, A C H. I don't think so.
I might add that the men in my program could
(24:33):
be boring and dull, and no one ever thought twice.
When I meet new people, they seem to expect a fun, loving,
not too serious, cheerleading blonde girl, and when they get
a dorky, serious, slightly sarcastic music historian either makes them
really angry or at least throws them for a loop.
My hair always seems to come up as a topic
of conversation, Kristin Amalie, will you please tell your listeners
that women with blonde hair can be just as serious
(24:54):
and successful as you brunettes. You heard it. There you go.
It's um And if you guys want to write us again,
please feel free to Molly and I love listener mail.
Our email is mom Stuff at how stuff works dot
com and during the week you can check out our
blog called how to stuff, where we talk about how
to do stuff. And if you're if you want to
(25:18):
read how circumcision works? Is circumcision really necessary? And why
would circumcision decrease a man's risk of contracting aids? You
should head over two house stuff works dot com for
more on this and thousands of other topics. Is that
how stuff works dot com. Want more house stuff works,
(25:41):
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thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stump Mom? Never told
you from house Stop works dot com. Hey there, and
welcome to the podcast. Is this Kristen Mrs Molly? So Molly,
(00:20):
today we are talking about circumcision. Yes, and um. You
know another episode we did what is the lipstick index
or the lipstick indicators that's sometimes called UM, which is
basically and we've talked about this in multiple episodes now,
but for those of you who haven't heard about it,
it's UM this idea that lipstick sales are correlated to
(00:43):
the economy. Basically, when the economy goes down, lipstick sales
go up because women buy it as a small luxury.
So with our circumcision research, Molly, I've come up something
new that I think economist seem to pay attention to.
That's called the circumcision index. Yes, Chris has already looked
into trademarking this term, patenting it so that if anyone
(01:03):
else says circumcision index, they have to pay her. Yeah,
pay up people, Um. Because the reason why I came
up with a circumcision index, aside from my innate brilliance
is because circumcisions are actually down in the down economy,
because it's an extra few hundred dollars on top of
the medical bills for having a little baby boy. So Ever,
(01:26):
since um insurance companies started cutting off payments for circumcisions,
they've seen a drop in the number of boys getting
their foreskin removed. Right, and in the states where it's
still a covered procedure they're having um there's the rates
of circumcision are still high. Basically, so that the thinking
goes that without health insurance, circumcisions, circumcisions drop. Yeah, and
(01:50):
this is um. This comes from a story in Newsweek
from April two thousand nine, and there was a report
by researchers at u c l A that said that
the circumcision right in states offering coverage was on average
higher than states that don't. So, uh, the economy might
be influencing men's foreskins. Now, perhaps at this point you're thinking, Hey,
(02:13):
it's mom's stuff. Why are they're talking about circumcisions because
we're all about periods here, But you know, we heard
all about women's periods. We want to hear about men's penises.
You know, at the end of the day, foreskins effect us. All. Yes,
I mean, let's say your new mother, you've got to
make this decision. You've got three bucks at your disposal
to have the circumcision or do you do you skip that? Yeah?
(02:34):
And if you're a guy, you know it's part of
your anatomy, so obvious. Yeah. And I've talked about and
if you're a girl encountering that part of the anatomy
for the first time, you might be thrown. Yeah, what's
that like? Let's talk about circumcision, Mollie. Let's talk about
the wonderful world of the male foreskin, right, So let's
talk some anatomy first, Kristen. We've got the foreskin, which
(02:57):
is a portion of skin on the penis that covers
and text the tip of the penis, also known as
the glands, and the foreskin is basically a protective shield
for the flaccid penis. It protects it against Nixon cuts
and excess rubbage. Yes, as the writer of this article
house circumcision works. Tom She've put it. It's a tough
(03:19):
world out there for a flacc of penis because you've
got abrasion from undergarments, you've got cold weather and dry air.
Apparently a lot of things can hurt that sensitive organ. Yeah,
and it's a pretty significant part of male genitalia because
the foreskin can account for one third to nearly one
half of total penile skin. And uh, then on the
(03:40):
inside of the foreskin, uh, he describes it as similar
to the inside of your mouth because it helps keep uh,
the penis naturally lubricated. Yes, and it's also not dead skin.
It's got all these nerve bundles, blood cells. This will
be important later because our question today is our circumcision
is really necessary and some people say that those very
(04:01):
nerve bundles maybe the reason that it's not. And there
is a little piece of skin called the tissue I
should say called the frenulum, and that's what connects the
foreskin to the glands. And the frenulum will come more
into play when we talk about how a circumcision procedure
actually happens. Now, Kristen, just as all penises are different,
(04:24):
all four skins are different. Some men have foreskins that
just cover the entire glands, some only have partially covered. Yeah,
and there are different conditions that can be associated with
that because sometimes in the case of a man who
has pomosis, his foreskin is not going to fully retract
when his penis becomes erect, which can be really painful.
(04:45):
And then on the flip side of that, you can
have paraphimosis, in which the foreskin will retract but it
won't cover the penis back up once it has gone
to wrist. Yeah, so it causes a lot of swelling. Um.
There are also there's also balin postphitis. Is that right, Christen?
Sure sounds good. That's a swelling of the mucous surfaces
(05:06):
of the foreskin, which can If that happens a lot,
then you may need a circumcision. And there's also a
skin disease that affects that area called balonitis zerotica of
litterons perhaps I'm gonna call it b XO and um.
That can cause pain and it can also be linked
with fumosis. So there are a lot of medical reasons
why you might not want your foreskin around. And on
(05:28):
top of that, since we've got all this lubrication going
on on the underside of the foreskin, uh and bacteria
that can get caught up in their men need to
keep that area clean earls, they're going to have a
build up of something called smegma, which is a cheesy
discharge which doesn't sound very pleasant. So if you do
have your foreskin, you've got to clean it, basically, is
(05:50):
the point, because no one wants any smegma hanging around,
and that can lead to infections. You can get a
urinary tract infection. It does not sound. Does not sound
plus that which I think you know. These are just
a few of the reasons. We're gonna get into all
of them later. Why people thought, hey, let's just get
rid of this problem. Let's get rid of foreskin. Let's
do a circumcision. So let's talk about how you actually
(06:11):
get rid of the skin. Yes, let's go two into
the hospital room with that little little infant boy and
find out what doctors do. There's either they either use
a clamp or something called a plasta bell device to
get rid of that foreskin. So here's how you use
(06:33):
a clamp. You separate, You separate the foreskin out and
then protect the rest of the penis. And then, as
the writer of this article puts it, you crush or
cut a ring of skin from the penis. And so
it happens really fast. And if you use that other device,
a plasta bill, it just kind of like you stay.
It stays in there, and then um, the skin just
(06:54):
falls off. It clings onto it for a while. Um. Now,
if you are an adult male and you decide to
get circumcised, things are a little bit different. It's a
little more involved of a procedure where they actually have
to snip off manually cut off the foreskin. Yes. On
the on the one hand, it's probably positive to know
(07:15):
you're not gonna have a clamp involved. On the other hand,
you're gonna have some scissors involved. Yes, I take your poison. Man.
So what they do is, um, they make a slit
in the foreskin and cut it away basically, and then
they make a stitch to hold it in place. And
it takes about thirty minutes. Now, and both procedures, both
for a child and for an adult, you're probably gonna
(07:35):
have some local anesthetic, little anesthesia. You're not gonna be under.
It's gonna be you know, it's gonna be awake, yeah,
for that, and it's gonna take some healing. Even for
for the child. I think the healing process is a
little shorter. But you know, for men. Obviously there's not
gonna be any sort of intercourse or anything like that
involved for the next little while. And you know, I
(07:56):
mean it's sensitive area, so it's not gonna be entirely painless. Now,
I'm not gonna lie Kristen. When I read how the
actual procedure worked, even though its medical procedure, I was
just like, why would anyone do this? It seems it
seems like a bad thing. So let's talk about historically
why people have chosen to cut away the foreskin. Well,
(08:17):
people have been circumcising penises for quite a while. There's
a rich history of male circumcision, and a lot of
times we think of it as going back to the
story of Abraham and the Bible where he makes a
covenant with God to protect the Jewish people. Um. And
you know, he goes ahead and circumcises himself if I'm
(08:40):
not mistaken, on the age of ninety nine. At the
age of ninety nine and then beyond that, um, he
was directed to circumcise mail males by the eighth day
of life. And if not uncircumcised men would have to
be cast away from the Jewish tribe. So he circumcises
his sons, and this sets this president that now about
(09:01):
of American Jews are circumcised, and of course goes through
and circumcises his son Ishmael. But um he gets cast
out and he becomes the forefather of the modern day
Arab people. And so he passes down that tradition to
his ancestors, which include the prophet Mohammed. Yeah, and since
Mohammed there, well, there's nothing in the Koran that's explicitly
(09:21):
says you must circumcise your male children. But since Mohammed
was known to have had a circumcised penis, a majority
of Muslims um will circumcise their sons. And in fact,
according to the World Health Organization, almost two out of
every three circumcised men on the planet are Muslim. Yeah.
Fun fact. Now, Muslims will differ when they actually do
(09:45):
the procedure. Some will do it when the baby is
an infant, like the Jewish people do, or they'll wait
till it can be more of like a rite of passage. Um. Now,
it's not so much a big deal. In Christianity, no one,
most Christian sex don't endorse the procedure. You kind of
do your own research and um. Other religions such as
Buddhism and Hinduism, they don't have a stance on it either.
(10:06):
But the thing is it did not start just with
Abraham and the Jewish people, because if you go back
and look at historical documents, the ancient Egyptians probably passed
the practice onto the Jews and they were practicing this
thousands of years before the birth of Christ. Yes, I
was reading about priests who would have like this golden thumbnail,
(10:29):
and that's how they would just like sort of press
off the foreskin was this big thumbnail. But so even
though we think of it as this ancient biblical directive,
it was probably practiced before then. There's evidence that Minds
and Aztecs did this. Um. It's it's in ancient history
going all the way back. Well, it's also interesting because,
like you mentioned, Minds and Aztecs also practiced this, but
(10:51):
it also um happens uh in native parts of Australia, Africa, Asia.
It's pretty global. It's pretty clow will except in a
few places. It looked like Europe and South America are
not really on the circumcision train. Yeah, so, ladies, if
you're traveling now, circumcision for medical purposes for those health
(11:12):
reasons that you and I touched on briefly really come
into vogue in the nineteenth century, when doctors begin treating
adult famosis. But one little fun fact too, is that
during the Victorian era, doctors became fans of circumcising men
to treat as a therapeutic treatment for masturbation because they
(11:33):
thought that masturbation led to insanity, and since the foreskin
is basically like a nice little lubricated sock, that can
make it easier to do. According to some sources, obviously
I'm not a primary source on that um, they thought
that by circumcising and then it would make them less
likely to masturbate and then less likely to become insane. Yes,
(11:56):
as the article put it, it was a source of mischief. Yes,
and we need to nip that right in the bud
with a little snip SNeW. You gotta love Victorian era
medical practices, you really do. Yeah, you can't fault them
at all. They were creative. So that's when the number
of circumcisions really begins to spike, when it becomes sort
of like the default thing to do, even if you're
not religious. About your reasons for circumcising. They do at
(12:19):
this point, bringing anesthesia into which I think was a
great directive. Um And and you know, the sad thing
is that it was used as sort of a thing
that you could do for all sorts of ailments, everything
from impotence to homosexuality. They thought, cut off the foreskin,
everything will be better. Yeah, yikes, But Molly, in recent years,
the rate of circumcision has actually dropped in the U. S.
(12:40):
And it does I think has something to do with
the circumcision index that I mentioned earlier, that extra two
or three hundred dollars that will be tacked onto the
tub that parents have to pay if they want to
have their child circumcised. But um in two thousand five,
the percentage of circumcised boys dropped from sixty five percent
of male infants to only fifty six percent, which I
(13:04):
was surprised at. I was more surprised about where the
breakdowns occur. Did you know that three out of four
Midwestern babies are circumcised, Well, only slightly more than half
of all Southern babies are circumcised. Yeah, but then in
the West, very little circumcision. Only about of infants are circumcised,
and the group that probably is least likely to circumcised
(13:25):
are Hispanics. But another fun fact there we go. It's
I when once I read this article, I started walking
around just look at people trying to guess, is that wrong?
I don't know. It's odd, but not wrong, Molly. Okay.
So the next question, Molly, that we have to address
in this circumcision discussion is whether or not there are
any health benefits associated with removing the foreskin. Because we
(13:49):
have all of these religious traditions, these cultural traditions, But
is there really any medical point in putting that placid
bell clamp on that little baby penis and make and
the fores can fall off a few days later. As
I mentioned, they avoid all those problems of pomosis of
an unclean penis, of this magma. And you've probably heard
about how in Africa they're making circumcision a huge part
(14:12):
of their campaign to lower HIV rates. Yes, they have
found that circumcised, circumcising men can lower the rate of
female to male HIV transmission. And this year the Bill
and Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation just donated fifty million
dollars um for I think it's up to six fifty
(14:33):
thousand male circumcisions in Africa to hopefully lower the rate
of HIV transmission. And the thinking behind this is that
the cells in the foreskin are particularly susceptible to binding
with HIV. Yeah, these are called langer Hans cells, and
they are present in the foreskin, and there are sentinel
(14:54):
cells that are supposed to detect anti or antigens which
are bad things coming into your body and then alert
the immune system to fight it off. But the problem
is they attached to UH these HIV cells and obviously
the immune system can't fight them off. And since the
foreskin is so sensitive to ripping and tearing UH, it
makes them a lot more susceptible to getting those HIV
(15:16):
cells um in the body and binding too those langer
Han cells, and then HIV spreads throughout the body. Right,
so it will cut down the rate. As Kristen said,
a female to mail transition transmission. It has no effect
on mail to female transmission or on mail to mail transmission.
So some critics will um be against this practice, mainly
because isn't it better to educate them about things like condoms?
(15:40):
You know, once you circumcise the guys, you're going to
go out and just think that he's immune from this. UM.
So it's it's somewhat controversial, by the studies that they've
done it with have been like really effective, right um
and one studying from two thousand five in South Africa, UM,
they found a sixty three decrease in HIV transmission for circumcisement.
In a you gand and study, there was a forty
(16:01):
eight percent reduction in AIDS infection UM and then in
Kenya they had a fifty reduction. And because they had
such staggering results, they actually ended the study prematurely because
it was basically unfair to the uncircumcised control group because, uh,
the circumcision was so effective against HIV transmission and it's
(16:23):
not just UM you know HIV in Africa. Also, uncircumcised
men are about twice as likely to be infected with
u HPV and they're also more risk for chlamydia and syphilis.
But then the people who are anti circumcision will say, hey,
just use a condom. Same diff Yeah, you just need
to practice good hygiene, keep the foreskin clean, keep the
(16:45):
bacteria out, put on a condom, and you're gonna lower
your rates of HIV and STD transmission anyway. Right, So
let's go through a few of the reasons why you
wouldn't circumcise the boy besides those. First of all, Molly,
and this is something we talked about a lot on
Mom Steff. Choice. Yes, if you circumcise the baby boy,
what choice does he have in the matter. Um, would
(17:08):
he make the same decision to cut off part of
his penis when he was twelve, twenty thirty? Um? And then,
like I said, there are all those nerve bundles, So
some people think that an uncircumcised mail has a little
bit more fun when it comes to sex. Yeah, there's
the nerve bundles and that natural lubrication from the foreskin,
so they could be missing out on more sexual pleasure.
(17:31):
And it also has a lot to do with whether
the father is circumcised or not. There's a study from
the World Health Organization that found that nine outton men
who are circumcised will have their son's circumcised as well,
and of uncircumcised men will have their sons stay natural. Right,
And you know, while we talked about some of the
(17:52):
health problems that you could face if you know you
never have. My most instident is an unnecessary procedure. What
else would you put in baby and baby under the
knife for that was unnecessary? And they think that it
could have psychological repercussions down the road of that childhood
trauma of pain and suffering. Yeah, it's a compelling argument,
(18:13):
it is. And you know, one thing, a topic that
Chris and I will cover at some point on mom
stuff is female genital mutilation where they cut out you know,
you know, it depends how much they'll cut out, but
sometimes they'll cut out all of a woman's reproductive system.
And obviously that is wrong. And so they're saying that
if you think that's wrong, then this is sort of
the equivalent for a male is a circumcision. Now, I
(18:35):
was reading one article that said a female general mutilation
is more like cutting off half the penis for a guy. Yeah,
it's so it's the way all pleasure for a woman.
It's not like once you cut off the foreskinn, a
man can't become a rouse. Yea. So it's it's not
necessarily a one to one argument, but I do think
that that's interesting to think about. Is there's we really
would frown upon just putting a girl under the knife
for the same reason. But like you said, we're gonna
(18:57):
save female genital mutilation for another podcast um at a
different time. But let's say, Molly, Um, a baby boy
was circumcised and he grows up and he's really not
happy about the fact that he does not have his
for skin feels a little incomplete. For skin back, what
can you do? There are a few options. There are
(19:17):
non surgical means, which means you stretch what you've got left. Um.
It involves using weights, straps, and manual stretching. So I
don't know if it sounds exactly fun. I've never I've
never talked to anyone who has done this, but that's
one option to try and just get it to come
back up and cover a little bit more. Yeah, and
there's this other method that involves inflating tiny balloons under
(19:39):
the penile skin to prompt new skin cell growth, which
will results which will result in permanent skin gain. I
don't really understand exactly how that happens with the tiny balloons.
But as a non surgical option, there are surgical options.
If you want plastic surgery on the penis, that is
an option they will take skin from another part of
(19:59):
the body and graft it onto the remaining for skin.
They do say in this article that the one drawback
is that the skin might be different colors and graft
so be sort of like a I would like to
think of it as a rainboat for skin. That makes
it sound a little nicer than actually how the article
puts it. But I I probably shouldn't make jokes about foreskin,
(20:21):
but you know, Molly, our listeners can make jokes about
foreskin if they'd like. If you guys have any opinions
about circumcision, whether or not you think that it is
necessary or is not necessary, and then we definitely want
to hear your thoughts on circumcision because, like I said,
me and Molly are only secondary sources on this. We
we cannot personally relate, so we would like to hear
(20:44):
your thoughts. Um please email us with your foreskin jokes
or other and more elevated conversation at mom stuff at
how stuffworks dot com. And in the meantime, let's read
some listener mail. All right, I'm gonna kick off a
list of mail today with an email from Russell, who
(21:04):
wrote about our episode on whether women's magazines do more
harm than good. And I have to say, Krista, whenever
a guy wrote in on women's magazines, they always gave
them the big thumb down. Thumbs down they liked that
Ben's magazines had the horribly embarrassing stories. But here's what
Russell writes. As for the sexual tips, more often than
not their way off base. And the best advice either
(21:25):
member of a couple when it comes to sex is
to communicate with your partner. But that is only one
line of text, and it would be tough to sell
a subscription based on that alone, even though that might
be the only thing a couple really needs. Perhaps these
magazines should rely less on the idea that each new
episode will unlock secrets that your guy is just too
embarrassed to bring up himself. Perhaps they should dedicate their
sexual sections two ideas and things to do an experiment
(21:46):
with with your partner. And as for the idea of
them damaging the youth, I think it lies more with
how the child is raised. If a young girl sees
her mother treated Cosmo like a Bible, she will likely
do the same. But if her mother says it's just
trash your fluff with little or no real value, much
like a new grocery store romance novel. She will hopefully
take on that same attitude. All right, Um, I've got
(22:07):
an email from Jackie and this is in reference to
our hair podcast. Says, Hello, Molly and Kristen. I've had long,
and I mean long hair my entire life. It was
ridiculously long as it went to my button. Sure, I've
known people was longer hair than that, but that was
the style that I maintained. I thought it was pretty
happy with my hair for the most part, but recently
(22:28):
my life had been feeling a little way down. I
felt as though there was something that wasn't right, so
she decided to cut her hair. Initially, I went to
the shoulder and donated all of my hair to Locks
of Love, and I adored my new hair, but a
lot of friends were very upset about it. None of
them knew me any other way, and a lot of
them acted as though I betrayed them and cutting off
(22:49):
the hair. They got over it, and once they did,
I went for a boy cut, not bothering to warn
them this time. I've got nothing but compliments since then.
People say I look more mature unless princessy, which is
the word used to describe me in the past, more
energetic and just all around more awesome, and most importantly,
I no longer feel way down. I love my hair,
(23:09):
and so does my boyfriend, not that his opinion would
have changed my mind in this case. After twenty one years,
I finally have a haircut I actually like, and not
one I was maintaining for everyone around me. It's short,
easy to take care of, it looks cute on me,
and I don't have to schedule my life around my hair.
I say foodie on people who shunned short hair on women.
It's made a better woman out of me. Sounds good.
(23:30):
Shall I read one more? Yes? Please? This is from Amy,
and her subject line caught my eye. It was nerdy
blonde has something to say about hair, She writes, I
just finished listening to your podcast on hair and I
wanted to write you about this. Blonds have more fun stereotype.
First of all, I was a very nerdy piano and
clarinet playing book reading completely unpopular library rat as a
(23:51):
child and teenager. It really didn't seem to make a
difference that I had blonde hair at the time. My
teachers and peers always seemed to respect me, and they
didn't seem to expect me to act like a blonde, mostly,
I believe because everyone had known me for a long time.
This changed, however, and really adversely affected me. In college
and especially in graduate school. All of the successful and
smart brunettes made snide comments about my hair, while my
(24:11):
male professors either dismissed me as stupid or asked me
out on dates. In fact, eight different professors asked me
out over the course of four years in college and
graduate school. I was told by my advisors that my
students would like me more if I was more like
a cheerleader. How was I supposed to cheerlead my students
to the history of Western music? Is beyond me? Give
me a B, A C H. I don't think so.
I might add that the men in my program could
(24:33):
be boring and dull, and no one ever thought twice.
When I meet new people, they seem to expect a fun, loving,
not too serious, cheerleading blonde girl, and when they get
a dorky, serious, slightly sarcastic music historian either makes them
really angry or at least throws them for a loop.
My hair always seems to come up as a topic
of conversation, Kristin Amalie, will you please tell your listeners
that women with blonde hair can be just as serious
(24:54):
and successful as you brunettes. You heard it. There you go.
It's um And if you guys want to write us again,
please feel free to Molly and I love listener mail.
Our email is mom Stuff at how stuff works dot
com and during the week you can check out our
blog called how to stuff, where we talk about how
to do stuff. And if you're if you want to
(25:18):
read how circumcision works? Is circumcision really necessary? And why
would circumcision decrease a man's risk of contracting aids? You
should head over two house stuff works dot com for
more on this and thousands of other topics. Is that
how stuff works dot com. Want more house stuff works,
(25:41):
check out our blogs on the house stuff works dot
com home page. Brought to you by the reinvented two
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