August 2, 2010 • 27 mins
Conventional wisdom would suggest that long-distance relationships are doomed to failure, but is that actually the case? Molly and Cristen sift through stats and studies to determine if long-distance relationships can ever work out.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff mom never told you?
From House top works dot com. Hello, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Kristin, I'm Molly. Today, Molly, you and
(00:21):
I are going to discuss the long distance relationship because,
as you know, most people would tell you long distance
relationships are just a recipe for failure. I hear that often. Yeah,
wouldn't you say? I mean, I've never come across an
article saying ten reasons why long distance relationships are the
(00:45):
most fulfilling, satisfying experiences of your life that will ultimately
lead to a forever union between two wonderful individuals. Kristen
just sits over the cubicle wall for me, and sometimes
that's too far. I know, Yeah, this is sweet right now,
and it's like a gulf. This whole table is so big. Um. Yeah,
(01:07):
I would say that most of the articles that you see,
most of the conversations, the anecdotes that you hear about
long distance relationships. I'm not going to go into personal details,
but you know, from friends of mine, let's say, uh,
long distance relationships, I know of not a single one
that has worked out. I was I was thinking right
(01:32):
there about whether I knew any I actually do know
a few that have worked out. Yeah, okay, And you know,
that's sort of why this was one of the topics
that we want to discuss, because even though you do
see all these articles about your relationship is doomed, people
still do it. Yeah, that's the thing. Even though we
know that they are really hard to pull off, a
ton of people still engage in long distance relationships, Like
(01:55):
for some reason, I don't know, do you think there's
some kind of allure to having a long distance relationship.
There's something incredibly romantic on the outset of, like, you know,
having that that long distance. I can see that. I mean,
I like my own space, so I don't need someone
who's there all the time. That's a little too much
for me, a little personal fact about me. And Molly's
(02:15):
always telling me to skid nattle. No, I'm not just
when you invade my personal space, just when I show
up at your apartment and announced anyway. Um, but I
do think they are probably people who are more suited
to it than others. And I think that's what we're
going to find is a very key aspect to a
successful long term relationship, and that is that two people
who have decided to do it. And that's where things
(02:35):
can get tricky because anyone can think, oh, you know,
we're the two that are going to make it. Our
love is strong enough to make it. But what actually
has to go on between those two people to make
a long distance relationship successful. Obviously, when you cannot see
someone day to day, you don't have that kind of
daily interaction. And in a lot of ways, your personal
(02:57):
lives are exists in separate sphere. You know, you don't
you aren't hanging out with same friends, you're not going
to the same places, etcetera. Um So, so yeah, trust
is a huge issue, and it comes up on the
ten reasons why long distance relationships just don't work from
the ever Positive House of Works dot com. It is
(03:18):
number seven on the list. In fact, it is lack
of trust because writer Tom Sheif says that a healthy
monogamous relationship requires of its participants in moral compass, ethical grounding, commitment,
and devotion, and long distance relationships jeopardize all of that.
He argues, what say you, Molly, Well, first, I just
(03:38):
want to point out that this article really ruffled a
lot of feathers around here because of that very negative
title that you just read off. Um. But as for trust,
I do think that he makes a point here that
just because you're in close proximity, you don't have that
same guarantee either. Basically, uh, you know, even if you
are in the same city and you do hang on
a fair amount of time, there are so many times
when you're not together all the time. So you're always
(04:01):
gonna happy, so you're always gonna have some trust issues.
The question is whether distance makes the trust issues so
much more present, which I guess it does. But um,
sometimes it's not even that the person has given you
a reason to doubt them, it's just your perceived the
idea of what they're giving to doubt you. And I think, Mom,
you're you're kind of getting at this aspect of someone's
(04:23):
negative affectivity. Yes, let's talk about negative affectivity. Because one
of the um scholarly of papers we've found about this
issue was from the Journal of Social Psychology. It's called
in terms of Uncertainty Predicting the Survival of Long distance relationships,
And um, you know, there have been a lot of
studies about whether the number of miles between a person
(04:44):
makes between the two people make a difference, whether um,
you know, how long they dated or didn't date before
they were long distance makes it makes a difference. And
these two researchers, Jessica J. Cameron and Michael Ross posit
that it's none of those factors that really makes the difference.
It's something called negative affectivity. And negative affectivity is sort
of what it sounds like. It's if you're pessimistic about
(05:05):
the future, if you have a tendency to experience a
lot of negative emotions such as anxiety and depression, if
you have low self esteem, and those are you know,
obviously personal factors that are going to make that maintenance
of trust over a long distance all the harder. Because
you're the kind of person who doesn't believe that things
are going to turn out well, then how are you
(05:27):
going to muster that trust and someone to say, you know,
just because there are three thousand miles away, they're not
going to cheat, or you know, they're still thinking about me,
or they're new friends, or no one special that I
need to worry about. But wouldn't you say to And
I think that the researchers point this out that you know,
someone who might be more prone towards negative UM effective
states UH is going to maybe encounter relationship problems depending
(05:53):
on you know, no matter how far their partner is.
That's true. I think that's very true. UM. But they
did find when they were looking at the they were
comparing relationships in the same city and long distance relationships,
and they did find out that a high level of
negative affectivity could predict a breakup in a long distance relationship,
but only in the men, which I found surprising because
(06:15):
when you think of the people who tend to go crazier,
I think in a long distance relationship. I hate to
say it, but it's usually the women. It's usually women
who just feel so insecure about what's going on across
the country or across the state, or however long the
distance is that they can't ah, they just can't handle it.
But these researchers found it is actually the men that
(06:35):
high end and women was really not associated with any
sort of long distance fallout. So I think that proves
again that you know, you've got to take into account
the person you're in a relationship with before you decide
whether it take a long distance if you are with
someone who is very needy and anxious, I mean, you know,
but in a nice way, because you're still with them.
(06:56):
You know, how are they going to manage that distance?
Because I think than the most well adjusted people when
you add in that distance can get very anxious and nuity.
That first separation is very hard. Well and to me,
the findings of this study we're kind of a no brainer,
you know, if we're talking about you know, negative affectivity
predicting relationship success in general, it makes total sense. And
(07:19):
also the researchers predicted that relational security would be associated
with greater relational stability in both long distance and same
city relationships. Essentially, a solid relationship is a solid relationship,
you know, it might be a little more complicated by distance,
but um, their findings confirmed that. And also it also
backs up previous research that found that, for instance, couples
(07:43):
who were more optimistic about the future of their relationship
or less likely to break up. Um, you know, people
who just had more natural trust in their and their
partners were more likely to find dating success if you will,
and I guess it's also you know, what do we
term success us Um, you know, is it I guess
just long term enjoyment of someone else's company. But you
(08:07):
don't have their company, then that's the point. But you
can have their company, Molly, let's talk about that. Yeah,
you can't, especially in this day and age of technology. Okay,
and the the age of the jets is realized. The
kids in their computers these days, the iPods and things. Uh,
there's so many ways to keep in touch. Yeah, I
(08:28):
mean you can, especially with webcams. And when I was
looking at a lot of sites, uh that we're talking
about how to maintain long distance relationships, so many people
said that was the glue in a relationship that they
could turn the web came on and they would talk
and was so nice to see the person's face, the
person's body language. But even then, uh, they would do
something else. They would watch TV, or they would do
(08:50):
the dishes, or they would you know, be picking their nose.
They wouldn't be talking to each other. With the point
I'm trying to make, but just having the webcam on
and knowing that, you know, if you wanted to, you
could shout out, oh hey, that was a funny line.
Blah blah blah. That just it really did make a
long distance relationship a lot easier. So I guess that's
the one big advice that pulled out of this Let's
(09:10):
get a webcam. Get a webcam. Yeah, because again going
back to the House of Works article on why relationships,
long distance relationships are doomed to fail. Uh, you know,
they point out the cost of keeping in touch in
that you know, you have to spend money to get
on a plane or get in your car or what
(09:31):
have you. You You have to take time off work to
make you know, all of this happen, and it just
ends up being a financial burden. But I mean, Skype
doesn't cost anything, you know, the investment of a webcam
and maybe you know, watch your watch your cell phone minutes.
But I think, though, when when we're talking about communication
with long distance relationships, because we do have so many
(09:53):
options from say sending a text message to actually going
and flying and seeing someone face to face, Um, I
don't know, I think that that could that could impact
it a lot to me, if you are communicating solely
or largely through just texting, you know what I'm saying,
it doesn't seem like it would predict very much future stability.
(10:16):
You know, I think you have to think outside the box,
which is what that that website that you were talking
about really emphasized to foster as much as much face
to face type of communication as you can, even if
it is just through a computer portal. Well, I think
that that again we're coming back to where it really
(10:36):
depends on the person. And I think that what I
gather is the most important thing when you're talking about
long distance communication is just what works for the two
of you and being very clear about that. You know, uh,
if you want, you know, one long phone call a
day versus ten, you know, check in texts a day.
I do think that you know, you brought up texting.
I do think that for some people, text throughout the
(10:57):
day is the way to go, whereas for some people
they need more, you know, a long email. Some people
need more of that phone time. Some people you know,
need three hours of webcam times. So I think that
that's part of what you have to work out in
negotiating that long distance relationship. And I think, to me,
this all this research brought to mind, um a study
that I read about, UM, I don't know, it's probably
(11:18):
a year ago now, and and I wish I had
the reference in front of me. But it basically found
that if couples, long term couples want to keep the
spice alive in a relationship, it was critical for them
to um enjoy novel experiences together to not just get
stuck in a routine of you know, especially for you know,
(11:39):
people who are married with kids saying, Okay, Thursday's date night,
and that's when we go to the Olive Garden and
you're going to order the positive primavera. You know, you
actually like go out and say, no, we're gonna go
have sushi on Tuesday, and it's gonna be crazy. Uh.
And I think that that's something that could be important
for maintaining long distance relationships as well, even if you
(12:00):
might not have the luxury of being able to go
out and go skydiving together. Say, maybe you could somehow
change things up just with your mode of communication, for instance,
like instead of sending an email, why don't you sit
down and write a letter. Who doesn't love getting a letter?
I love getting letters. I mean, I'm just playing relationship
therapist right now. But also, you know, kind of speaking
(12:22):
from some personal experience, but let's put some some numbers
behind all of this talk, Molly, because you know, I
love statistics. Because we're talking about long distance relationships. We've
said that it affects a lot of people, but just
how many people are we talking about? And you know,
I think probably one of my favorite fun facts that
will come out of the research of this podcast is
(12:44):
that there is a thing called the Center for the
Study of Long Distance Relationships. Someone got really frustrated in
their long distance relationship. I was not aware that such
a body of research and data existed, So these numbers
come from them. Um. It's very hard, obviously for reasons
you can probably understand to get an exact number. Um.
(13:06):
But according to that center and estimated two point nine
percent of US marriages are considered long distance, with one
in ten marriages report have included a period of long
distance of within the first three years. And you know,
there have been a lot of trend pieces lately about
how the number of commuter marriages are on the rise
because in these tough economic times, maybe someone has to
(13:26):
take a job, you know that's two hours away, and
the spouse can't sell the house. Um. And obviously the
military is always affected by long distance. So UM, I'm
surprised to see how many marriages were. But then when
you just talk about people dating, their estimating that four
point five million college couples in the US were in
long distance relationships. Yeah, it happens a lot in college,
(13:49):
which told makes sense, you know, especially with the whole
like high school sweetheart type of thing. And then you
go to different colleges. But you know, I will say
my one piece of advice, um two kids in college
is just don't spend all your time talking to the
high school person. You've got to invest in new situation
to make it work. Exactly this in yourself. But here,
(14:11):
to me, this is the most compelling thing that came
out of the Center for the Study of Long Distance Relationships,
which I think should be a word of total encouragement
to you folks out there who are engaged in a
long distance relationship right now, because it seems the numbers
indicate that there's a breaking point with long distance relationship
(14:34):
where it's like, if you can make it for this
set period of time, then you're good, much better than
people who live in the same city exactly. So here's
the thing, all right, So they broke down the percentage
of breakups of proximal relationships a k a. You're dating,
you know, dating a dude down the street versus long
(14:55):
distance relationships. Now, in the first six months, proximal relationships
fair much better than long distance relationships. We've got thirty
percent of proximal relationships breaking up and of long distance relationships.
But then we hit the eight month mark and the
tables have turned. That drops all the way down to
(15:18):
eleven just eleven percent of breakups during the first eight months,
and then that goes down even further to only eight
percent during the first year for long distance relationships. And
get this, Molly, a quarter of all proximal relationships. So
while you know you might be jealous, say of your
roommate whose boyfriend is over all the time, you know,
(15:40):
and they're just in love for the first six months,
while you're having to like sneak away and skype your
your dude and Singapore or wherever you know you're gonna
get the last laugh one year later, jeez, grind alone
in your bedroom and you're like, sorry, I'm we gotta
skype my boyfriend in Singapore. Well, I think that, Yes,
(16:01):
it was very encouraging to see that if you can
make it a certain amount of time, then you do
have better odds against you. But that does speak to
how when you are getting started in a proximal relationship
someone who's in the same city, you have the time
to take it slow and see if things are going
to work out or not work out, and maybe you'll
give them six months and then you're like, oh, this
isn't working out. Whereas I do think long distance relationships
(16:22):
have that pressure very quickly to be serious, and so
I'm sure that is why it's much harder in those
first few months, because perhaps you know, you think it's
gonna go great, even apart it doesn't. Um. Maybe then
a remedy just slowing all of this this dating business down,
Milla is to start just referring to it as proximal
relationship building. You know, maybe instead of saying, hey, do
(16:46):
you want to go on a date, maybe you say
would you like to go on a perspective proximbal relationship
building excursion? You try that out, Christen, let me know
how it works for you. That's not one of my cosmotists, okay, UM,
but I do think that that level of making the
commitment early on is an important factor in the long
(17:07):
distance relationship success. Because going back to this house stuff
works article about why they don't work, Tom Sheeve talks
about people who use the long distance relationship as the
way to um get in a sneaky breakup. It's the
kind of people who want to avoid conflict. It's like
Tom Sheeve that else the works at com went through
(17:28):
a weird long distance relationship, or he just doesn't like conflict,
because he says that, you know, if you don't like
conflict and you want to avoid, you know, hurting someone
with a breakup, you just move away, to move away,
just change locations, and eventually they will get the point.
You may try and do long distance relationship, but your
calls just start dwindling. But you know you better, you
better watch out. You can't. You can't wait too long
(17:50):
because according to the Center for the Study of Long
Distance Relationships, you got about fourteen months before someone's going
to move closer to someone else, the average amount of
time that couples can expect to live apart before they
can move closer together. And you were talking earlier, Christen
about how you think it's very important that couples have
that light at the end of the tunnel, be at
(18:10):
fourteen months five months, a year, whatever it is, you
kind of have to have an end date in site
because otherwise it's I don't know, But see that's not
I don't think that's a pressure point we put on
proximal relationships, like in fourteen months we're going to be
really serious. So I do think that's a key difference
between uh PRS and LDR. Sure, but I would argue
(18:31):
though that with proximal relationships, while we might not have
a timeline attached to them, well, I mean some people might,
but generally speaking, we don't have a timeline attached to
how the relationship would proceed. But there are certain milestones
that you do cross. For instance, I'm just talking about
simple things such as meeting the other person's friends, hang
(18:53):
out with them, kind of becoming integrated into their their habits,
and you know vice versa, like have the new person
meet meet your person's um and uh you know, maybe
meeting the parents whatever. You know, those little like relationship
milestones that you have um when you you know, when
you start, when you start dating someone, that might not
(19:14):
take place as easily with a long distance between you,
which gets which gets again to that issue of trust.
If you have been in a proximal relationship. And I
love how now we are using proximal relationship and casual conversation. Christis,
I'm making it happen. I'm no longer dating, I'm proximal
relationship building. Um. But if you're used to that sort
(19:34):
of natural evolution of a relationship that happens in approximate relationship,
it can be really jolting when you can't get that
same sort of satisfaction and a long distance relationship and
this it's gonna be a vicious cycle. But to go
back to the beginning, that's where you can start to
have trust issues because you can't meet their friends. You
can't you know, if you're the kind of type of
you know girl who is really anxious that your significant
(19:56):
other has another really you know, attractive girl in the
circle of friends and you don't know about it, then
you can just start to let things build in your
head and it and it just gets messy. But let's
leave the messy part for a minute, and let's talk
about I think probably the most fun aspect of a
long distance relationship, the visit. And these can be really
exciting because it's sort of like being a tourist. Either
(20:20):
in your own city or in a city you might
know fairly well, or you may be meeting up you know,
in the middle somewhere, and uh, these are kind of
mixed blessings. One, it's great because you finally get to
see that person. The time together can be even more
special because you rarely see each other. Um, you're probably
more likely be doing touristy things spending time together, and
it's it'll be I think, a large quantity of high
(20:40):
quality time. But I said it was a mixed blessing
because I do think that there is that um honeymoon
period that happens in a new in a in those visits,
and if at the end of those fourteen months when
you're living together again, I think it can be really
hard to transition from having a relationship built on visits
to having the proximal relationship again because then you've got
(21:02):
all that nitty gritty stuff with like who takes out
the trash? Yeah, day to day interact as the dishes,
Like that day to day interaction when you don't have
an on a regular basis can be a really hard
transition back. Yeah, because that's when you know, weird pet
peeves pop up and I'm not just trying to, you know,
sound like some nitpicky woman here. I mean, guys, you
know what, you know what we're talking about. You know,
(21:23):
everyone has those little daily quirks. For instance, you know,
I don't really care to be spoken to before ten
o'clock in the morning, period um. But also, uh, it
can be hard as well on not only on your
psychological environment, Molly, but also on the actual Earth's environment,
(21:46):
as late pointed out in a very slight kind of way.
Just to take a quick little side trip here to
this Slate article that we found disparaging long distance relationship
because of the negative environmental impact that they have. The
the author points out that because of the impact of
you know, uh, flying and ground transportation, a carbon offset
(22:09):
company would pin their romantic travels with the equivalent of
thirty five metric tons of carbon dioxide every year egad.
They were saying that a woman would be more environmentally
friendly to give up a long distance relationship than she
would like giving up all meat because of all the
processing involved in meat. The processing involved in her travels
(22:30):
was greater than that, to which I say, you have
a proximate relationship with your hamburg. Yeah, enjoy that, enjoy
that Hamburg. And there's also just the cost of all
those flights, all those train trips, all that gas. But
like we said, only there are ways too, There are
ways to get around the you know, the cost, to
lower the cost things to technology. You can still keep
(22:53):
in touch for for pennies a day. So we've gone
through some pros and cons. I don't think we've you know,
to sided that one is better than the other. Although
I'm curious to see how your practicimal relationship will going.
We'll go once you start calling it that. Well, that's
the thing though, I mean, I think the research that
we've found has said that, you know, long distance relationship
(23:13):
success depends on hey, surprise the two people involved in
how committed an optimistic they are about the future. And
I'll end on one more positive note from the Journal
of Social and Personal Relationships. And they were talking about how,
you know, the happiest couples spend a lot of time together.
But were they happy because they spent time together or
were they or did the time together they spent make
(23:34):
them happy? And the journal or the article drew the
conclusion that the amount of time a couple spends together
does not in and of itself, play a central role
in relationship maintenance. So it's more about quality and not
about quantity. If you can't see someone every day, but
you still have really great time when you see them
or when you're chatting online with them via your webcam,
(23:57):
you know it can work. It can work, and I
want our listeners to prove to us that it can
work by emailing us their stories of long distance relationships,
because I feel like so many people I know have
attempted some form of long distance relationship, even if it
was just temporary um and everyone has has a different
(24:17):
take on it because every relationship is a little bit different.
So please share your stories with us because I'm I'm
curious to know what people how people have made it work,
and also the deal breakers and longnessance relationships. So send
me and Molly an email if you have a chance.
It's Mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com and Molly.
(24:38):
Let's read a couple of emails right about now. All right,
I'm going to read one from Vicky, and this is
about the why do Men Propose? Episode? She writes, when
I first met my husband, I was content getting in
and out of relationships in less than two weeks. I
was in no hurry to settle down. I'm very independent
and wasn't looking for a prince charming to take me away.
(25:01):
As a matter of fact, my husband was warned by
a mutual friend that I would never settle down. So
when things got serious, I think we were both surprised.
After dating for six months, I knew he would never
propose before because when we were first today, I constantly
said I would never get married. So one night I
had him kidnapped from work by his boss, who dropped
him off at a hotel, gave him a room key,
and drive away. I was waiting in the room with
(25:21):
some candleslit, Chinese food from his favorite place, and a
simple gold man's ring, and I asked him to marry me.
He said yes, And now I've been married for sixteen
years on July Therey one, and we have four kids.
Maybe nice, nice little proposal story. All right, Well, I've
got one here from Crystal, and this is in response
to our podcast about women and bartending. Uh. She said,
(25:42):
I broughtened it for five years at my university pub
during my undergrad and part of my master's and had
no idea that there had been such a struggle for
me to reach that position. During those years, I made
quite a few observations. I noticed that most females are
absolutely horrific tippers. A good portion of them wouldn't even
come to the bar with cash in their pockets. They
(26:03):
would just expect some guy to buy their drinks. It
was shameless, and I quite often told the girls that
somehow people forget that the better you treat your bartender
with large tips and a simple please and thank you,
the faster you will get served. I fought out not
served a few ladies who are yelling at me, and
it tipped exactly zero from their previous drink. Why should
I when over all the guys would always be nicer
(26:24):
and tient better. It shames you to admit that about
my own sex, but I've rarely noticed any different. The
nicest female patrons were always women who also worked in
the service industry. So take it from a woman who
knows women. Tip your bartenders and be nice and don't
just expect men to buy your drinks because you might
(26:46):
go home sober. All right, So send us your emails.
It's mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com and
check us out on Twitter, Like us on Facebook if
you don't mind, and always you can follow our blog
It is stuff Mom Never told you and you can
find it at how stuff works dot com. For more
(27:08):
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home page. Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand
twelve camera. It's ready, are you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff mom never told you?
From House top works dot com. Hello, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Kristin, I'm Molly. Today, Molly, you and
(00:21):
I are going to discuss the long distance relationship because,
as you know, most people would tell you long distance
relationships are just a recipe for failure. I hear that often. Yeah,
wouldn't you say? I mean, I've never come across an
article saying ten reasons why long distance relationships are the
(00:45):
most fulfilling, satisfying experiences of your life that will ultimately
lead to a forever union between two wonderful individuals. Kristen
just sits over the cubicle wall for me, and sometimes
that's too far. I know, Yeah, this is sweet right now,
and it's like a gulf. This whole table is so big. Um. Yeah,
(01:07):
I would say that most of the articles that you see,
most of the conversations, the anecdotes that you hear about
long distance relationships. I'm not going to go into personal details,
but you know, from friends of mine, let's say, uh,
long distance relationships, I know of not a single one
that has worked out. I was I was thinking right
(01:32):
there about whether I knew any I actually do know
a few that have worked out. Yeah, okay, And you know,
that's sort of why this was one of the topics
that we want to discuss, because even though you do
see all these articles about your relationship is doomed, people
still do it. Yeah, that's the thing. Even though we
know that they are really hard to pull off, a
ton of people still engage in long distance relationships, Like
(01:55):
for some reason, I don't know, do you think there's
some kind of allure to having a long distance relationship.
There's something incredibly romantic on the outset of, like, you know,
having that that long distance. I can see that. I mean,
I like my own space, so I don't need someone
who's there all the time. That's a little too much
for me, a little personal fact about me. And Molly's
(02:15):
always telling me to skid nattle. No, I'm not just
when you invade my personal space, just when I show
up at your apartment and announced anyway. Um, but I
do think they are probably people who are more suited
to it than others. And I think that's what we're
going to find is a very key aspect to a
successful long term relationship, and that is that two people
who have decided to do it. And that's where things
(02:35):
can get tricky because anyone can think, oh, you know,
we're the two that are going to make it. Our
love is strong enough to make it. But what actually
has to go on between those two people to make
a long distance relationship successful. Obviously, when you cannot see
someone day to day, you don't have that kind of
daily interaction. And in a lot of ways, your personal
(02:57):
lives are exists in separate sphere. You know, you don't
you aren't hanging out with same friends, you're not going
to the same places, etcetera. Um So, so yeah, trust
is a huge issue, and it comes up on the
ten reasons why long distance relationships just don't work from
the ever Positive House of Works dot com. It is
(03:18):
number seven on the list. In fact, it is lack
of trust because writer Tom Sheif says that a healthy
monogamous relationship requires of its participants in moral compass, ethical grounding, commitment,
and devotion, and long distance relationships jeopardize all of that.
He argues, what say you, Molly, Well, first, I just
(03:38):
want to point out that this article really ruffled a
lot of feathers around here because of that very negative
title that you just read off. Um. But as for trust,
I do think that he makes a point here that
just because you're in close proximity, you don't have that
same guarantee either. Basically, uh, you know, even if you
are in the same city and you do hang on
a fair amount of time, there are so many times
when you're not together all the time. So you're always
(04:01):
gonna happy, so you're always gonna have some trust issues.
The question is whether distance makes the trust issues so
much more present, which I guess it does. But um,
sometimes it's not even that the person has given you
a reason to doubt them, it's just your perceived the
idea of what they're giving to doubt you. And I think, Mom,
you're you're kind of getting at this aspect of someone's
(04:23):
negative affectivity. Yes, let's talk about negative affectivity. Because one
of the um scholarly of papers we've found about this
issue was from the Journal of Social Psychology. It's called
in terms of Uncertainty Predicting the Survival of Long distance relationships,
And um, you know, there have been a lot of
studies about whether the number of miles between a person
(04:44):
makes between the two people make a difference, whether um,
you know, how long they dated or didn't date before
they were long distance makes it makes a difference. And
these two researchers, Jessica J. Cameron and Michael Ross posit
that it's none of those factors that really makes the difference.
It's something called negative affectivity. And negative affectivity is sort
of what it sounds like. It's if you're pessimistic about
(05:05):
the future, if you have a tendency to experience a
lot of negative emotions such as anxiety and depression, if
you have low self esteem, and those are you know,
obviously personal factors that are going to make that maintenance
of trust over a long distance all the harder. Because
you're the kind of person who doesn't believe that things
are going to turn out well, then how are you
(05:27):
going to muster that trust and someone to say, you know,
just because there are three thousand miles away, they're not
going to cheat, or you know, they're still thinking about me,
or they're new friends, or no one special that I
need to worry about. But wouldn't you say to And
I think that the researchers point this out that you know,
someone who might be more prone towards negative UM effective
states UH is going to maybe encounter relationship problems depending
(05:53):
on you know, no matter how far their partner is.
That's true. I think that's very true. UM. But they
did find when they were looking at the they were
comparing relationships in the same city and long distance relationships,
and they did find out that a high level of
negative affectivity could predict a breakup in a long distance relationship,
but only in the men, which I found surprising because
(06:15):
when you think of the people who tend to go crazier,
I think in a long distance relationship. I hate to
say it, but it's usually the women. It's usually women
who just feel so insecure about what's going on across
the country or across the state, or however long the
distance is that they can't ah, they just can't handle it.
But these researchers found it is actually the men that
(06:35):
high end and women was really not associated with any
sort of long distance fallout. So I think that proves
again that you know, you've got to take into account
the person you're in a relationship with before you decide
whether it take a long distance if you are with
someone who is very needy and anxious, I mean, you know,
but in a nice way, because you're still with them.
(06:56):
You know, how are they going to manage that distance?
Because I think than the most well adjusted people when
you add in that distance can get very anxious and nuity.
That first separation is very hard. Well and to me,
the findings of this study we're kind of a no brainer,
you know, if we're talking about you know, negative affectivity
predicting relationship success in general, it makes total sense. And
(07:19):
also the researchers predicted that relational security would be associated
with greater relational stability in both long distance and same
city relationships. Essentially, a solid relationship is a solid relationship,
you know, it might be a little more complicated by distance,
but um, their findings confirmed that. And also it also
backs up previous research that found that, for instance, couples
(07:43):
who were more optimistic about the future of their relationship
or less likely to break up. Um, you know, people
who just had more natural trust in their and their
partners were more likely to find dating success if you will,
and I guess it's also you know, what do we
term success us Um, you know, is it I guess
just long term enjoyment of someone else's company. But you
(08:07):
don't have their company, then that's the point. But you
can have their company, Molly, let's talk about that. Yeah,
you can't, especially in this day and age of technology. Okay,
and the the age of the jets is realized. The
kids in their computers these days, the iPods and things. Uh,
there's so many ways to keep in touch. Yeah, I
(08:28):
mean you can, especially with webcams. And when I was
looking at a lot of sites, uh that we're talking
about how to maintain long distance relationships, so many people
said that was the glue in a relationship that they
could turn the web came on and they would talk
and was so nice to see the person's face, the
person's body language. But even then, uh, they would do
something else. They would watch TV, or they would do
(08:50):
the dishes, or they would you know, be picking their nose.
They wouldn't be talking to each other. With the point
I'm trying to make, but just having the webcam on
and knowing that, you know, if you wanted to, you
could shout out, oh hey, that was a funny line.
Blah blah blah. That just it really did make a
long distance relationship a lot easier. So I guess that's
the one big advice that pulled out of this Let's
(09:10):
get a webcam. Get a webcam. Yeah, because again going
back to the House of Works article on why relationships,
long distance relationships are doomed to fail. Uh, you know,
they point out the cost of keeping in touch in
that you know, you have to spend money to get
on a plane or get in your car or what
(09:31):
have you. You You have to take time off work to
make you know, all of this happen, and it just
ends up being a financial burden. But I mean, Skype
doesn't cost anything, you know, the investment of a webcam
and maybe you know, watch your watch your cell phone minutes.
But I think, though, when when we're talking about communication
with long distance relationships, because we do have so many
(09:53):
options from say sending a text message to actually going
and flying and seeing someone face to face, Um, I
don't know, I think that that could that could impact
it a lot to me, if you are communicating solely
or largely through just texting, you know what I'm saying,
it doesn't seem like it would predict very much future stability.
(10:16):
You know, I think you have to think outside the box,
which is what that that website that you were talking
about really emphasized to foster as much as much face
to face type of communication as you can, even if
it is just through a computer portal. Well, I think
that that again we're coming back to where it really
(10:36):
depends on the person. And I think that what I
gather is the most important thing when you're talking about
long distance communication is just what works for the two
of you and being very clear about that. You know, uh,
if you want, you know, one long phone call a
day versus ten, you know, check in texts a day.
I do think that you know, you brought up texting.
I do think that for some people, text throughout the
(10:57):
day is the way to go, whereas for some people
they need more, you know, a long email. Some people
need more of that phone time. Some people you know,
need three hours of webcam times. So I think that
that's part of what you have to work out in
negotiating that long distance relationship. And I think, to me,
this all this research brought to mind, um a study
that I read about, UM, I don't know, it's probably
(11:18):
a year ago now, and and I wish I had
the reference in front of me. But it basically found
that if couples, long term couples want to keep the
spice alive in a relationship, it was critical for them
to um enjoy novel experiences together to not just get
stuck in a routine of you know, especially for you know,
(11:39):
people who are married with kids saying, Okay, Thursday's date night,
and that's when we go to the Olive Garden and
you're going to order the positive primavera. You know, you
actually like go out and say, no, we're gonna go
have sushi on Tuesday, and it's gonna be crazy. Uh.
And I think that that's something that could be important
for maintaining long distance relationships as well, even if you
(12:00):
might not have the luxury of being able to go
out and go skydiving together. Say, maybe you could somehow
change things up just with your mode of communication, for instance,
like instead of sending an email, why don't you sit
down and write a letter. Who doesn't love getting a letter?
I love getting letters. I mean, I'm just playing relationship
therapist right now. But also, you know, kind of speaking
(12:22):
from some personal experience, but let's put some some numbers
behind all of this talk, Molly, because you know, I
love statistics. Because we're talking about long distance relationships. We've
said that it affects a lot of people, but just
how many people are we talking about? And you know,
I think probably one of my favorite fun facts that
will come out of the research of this podcast is
(12:44):
that there is a thing called the Center for the
Study of Long Distance Relationships. Someone got really frustrated in
their long distance relationship. I was not aware that such
a body of research and data existed, So these numbers
come from them. Um. It's very hard, obviously for reasons
you can probably understand to get an exact number. Um.
(13:06):
But according to that center and estimated two point nine
percent of US marriages are considered long distance, with one
in ten marriages report have included a period of long
distance of within the first three years. And you know,
there have been a lot of trend pieces lately about
how the number of commuter marriages are on the rise
because in these tough economic times, maybe someone has to
(13:26):
take a job, you know that's two hours away, and
the spouse can't sell the house. Um. And obviously the
military is always affected by long distance. So UM, I'm
surprised to see how many marriages were. But then when
you just talk about people dating, their estimating that four
point five million college couples in the US were in
long distance relationships. Yeah, it happens a lot in college,
(13:49):
which told makes sense, you know, especially with the whole
like high school sweetheart type of thing. And then you
go to different colleges. But you know, I will say
my one piece of advice, um two kids in college
is just don't spend all your time talking to the
high school person. You've got to invest in new situation
to make it work. Exactly this in yourself. But here,
(14:11):
to me, this is the most compelling thing that came
out of the Center for the Study of Long Distance Relationships,
which I think should be a word of total encouragement
to you folks out there who are engaged in a
long distance relationship right now, because it seems the numbers
indicate that there's a breaking point with long distance relationship
(14:34):
where it's like, if you can make it for this
set period of time, then you're good, much better than
people who live in the same city exactly. So here's
the thing, all right, So they broke down the percentage
of breakups of proximal relationships a k a. You're dating,
you know, dating a dude down the street versus long
(14:55):
distance relationships. Now, in the first six months, proximal relationships
fair much better than long distance relationships. We've got thirty
percent of proximal relationships breaking up and of long distance relationships.
But then we hit the eight month mark and the
tables have turned. That drops all the way down to
(15:18):
eleven just eleven percent of breakups during the first eight months,
and then that goes down even further to only eight
percent during the first year for long distance relationships. And
get this, Molly, a quarter of all proximal relationships. So
while you know you might be jealous, say of your
roommate whose boyfriend is over all the time, you know,
(15:40):
and they're just in love for the first six months,
while you're having to like sneak away and skype your
your dude and Singapore or wherever you know you're gonna
get the last laugh one year later, jeez, grind alone
in your bedroom and you're like, sorry, I'm we gotta
skype my boyfriend in Singapore. Well, I think that, Yes,
(16:01):
it was very encouraging to see that if you can
make it a certain amount of time, then you do
have better odds against you. But that does speak to
how when you are getting started in a proximal relationship
someone who's in the same city, you have the time
to take it slow and see if things are going
to work out or not work out, and maybe you'll
give them six months and then you're like, oh, this
isn't working out. Whereas I do think long distance relationships
(16:22):
have that pressure very quickly to be serious, and so
I'm sure that is why it's much harder in those
first few months, because perhaps you know, you think it's
gonna go great, even apart it doesn't. Um. Maybe then
a remedy just slowing all of this this dating business down,
Milla is to start just referring to it as proximal
relationship building. You know, maybe instead of saying, hey, do
(16:46):
you want to go on a date, maybe you say
would you like to go on a perspective proximbal relationship
building excursion? You try that out, Christen, let me know
how it works for you. That's not one of my cosmotists, okay, UM,
but I do think that that level of making the
commitment early on is an important factor in the long
(17:07):
distance relationship success. Because going back to this house stuff
works article about why they don't work, Tom Sheeve talks
about people who use the long distance relationship as the
way to um get in a sneaky breakup. It's the
kind of people who want to avoid conflict. It's like
Tom Sheeve that else the works at com went through
(17:28):
a weird long distance relationship, or he just doesn't like conflict,
because he says that, you know, if you don't like
conflict and you want to avoid, you know, hurting someone
with a breakup, you just move away, to move away,
just change locations, and eventually they will get the point.
You may try and do long distance relationship, but your
calls just start dwindling. But you know you better, you
better watch out. You can't. You can't wait too long
(17:50):
because according to the Center for the Study of Long
Distance Relationships, you got about fourteen months before someone's going
to move closer to someone else, the average amount of
time that couples can expect to live apart before they
can move closer together. And you were talking earlier, Christen
about how you think it's very important that couples have
that light at the end of the tunnel, be at
(18:10):
fourteen months five months, a year, whatever it is, you
kind of have to have an end date in site
because otherwise it's I don't know, But see that's not
I don't think that's a pressure point we put on
proximal relationships, like in fourteen months we're going to be
really serious. So I do think that's a key difference
between uh PRS and LDR. Sure, but I would argue
(18:31):
though that with proximal relationships, while we might not have
a timeline attached to them, well, I mean some people might,
but generally speaking, we don't have a timeline attached to
how the relationship would proceed. But there are certain milestones
that you do cross. For instance, I'm just talking about
simple things such as meeting the other person's friends, hang
(18:53):
out with them, kind of becoming integrated into their their habits,
and you know vice versa, like have the new person
meet meet your person's um and uh you know, maybe
meeting the parents whatever. You know, those little like relationship
milestones that you have um when you you know, when
you start, when you start dating someone, that might not
(19:14):
take place as easily with a long distance between you,
which gets which gets again to that issue of trust.
If you have been in a proximal relationship. And I
love how now we are using proximal relationship and casual conversation. Christis,
I'm making it happen. I'm no longer dating, I'm proximal
relationship building. Um. But if you're used to that sort
(19:34):
of natural evolution of a relationship that happens in approximate relationship,
it can be really jolting when you can't get that
same sort of satisfaction and a long distance relationship and
this it's gonna be a vicious cycle. But to go
back to the beginning, that's where you can start to
have trust issues because you can't meet their friends. You
can't you know, if you're the kind of type of
you know girl who is really anxious that your significant
(19:56):
other has another really you know, attractive girl in the
circle of friends and you don't know about it, then
you can just start to let things build in your
head and it and it just gets messy. But let's
leave the messy part for a minute, and let's talk
about I think probably the most fun aspect of a
long distance relationship, the visit. And these can be really
exciting because it's sort of like being a tourist. Either
(20:20):
in your own city or in a city you might
know fairly well, or you may be meeting up you know,
in the middle somewhere, and uh, these are kind of
mixed blessings. One, it's great because you finally get to
see that person. The time together can be even more
special because you rarely see each other. Um, you're probably
more likely be doing touristy things spending time together, and
it's it'll be I think, a large quantity of high
(20:40):
quality time. But I said it was a mixed blessing
because I do think that there is that um honeymoon
period that happens in a new in a in those visits,
and if at the end of those fourteen months when
you're living together again, I think it can be really
hard to transition from having a relationship built on visits
to having the proximal relationship again because then you've got
(21:02):
all that nitty gritty stuff with like who takes out
the trash? Yeah, day to day interact as the dishes,
Like that day to day interaction when you don't have
an on a regular basis can be a really hard
transition back. Yeah, because that's when you know, weird pet
peeves pop up and I'm not just trying to, you know,
sound like some nitpicky woman here. I mean, guys, you
know what, you know what we're talking about. You know,
(21:23):
everyone has those little daily quirks. For instance, you know,
I don't really care to be spoken to before ten
o'clock in the morning, period um. But also, uh, it
can be hard as well on not only on your
psychological environment, Molly, but also on the actual Earth's environment,
(21:46):
as late pointed out in a very slight kind of way.
Just to take a quick little side trip here to
this Slate article that we found disparaging long distance relationship
because of the negative environmental impact that they have. The
the author points out that because of the impact of
you know, uh, flying and ground transportation, a carbon offset
(22:09):
company would pin their romantic travels with the equivalent of
thirty five metric tons of carbon dioxide every year egad.
They were saying that a woman would be more environmentally
friendly to give up a long distance relationship than she
would like giving up all meat because of all the
processing involved in meat. The processing involved in her travels
(22:30):
was greater than that, to which I say, you have
a proximate relationship with your hamburg. Yeah, enjoy that, enjoy
that Hamburg. And there's also just the cost of all
those flights, all those train trips, all that gas. But
like we said, only there are ways too, There are
ways to get around the you know, the cost, to
lower the cost things to technology. You can still keep
(22:53):
in touch for for pennies a day. So we've gone
through some pros and cons. I don't think we've you know,
to sided that one is better than the other. Although
I'm curious to see how your practicimal relationship will going.
We'll go once you start calling it that. Well, that's
the thing though, I mean, I think the research that
we've found has said that, you know, long distance relationship
(23:13):
success depends on hey, surprise the two people involved in
how committed an optimistic they are about the future. And
I'll end on one more positive note from the Journal
of Social and Personal Relationships. And they were talking about how,
you know, the happiest couples spend a lot of time together.
But were they happy because they spent time together or
were they or did the time together they spent make
(23:34):
them happy? And the journal or the article drew the
conclusion that the amount of time a couple spends together
does not in and of itself, play a central role
in relationship maintenance. So it's more about quality and not
about quantity. If you can't see someone every day, but
you still have really great time when you see them
or when you're chatting online with them via your webcam,
(23:57):
you know it can work. It can work, and I
want our listeners to prove to us that it can
work by emailing us their stories of long distance relationships,
because I feel like so many people I know have
attempted some form of long distance relationship, even if it
was just temporary um and everyone has has a different
(24:17):
take on it because every relationship is a little bit different.
So please share your stories with us because I'm I'm
curious to know what people how people have made it work,
and also the deal breakers and longnessance relationships. So send
me and Molly an email if you have a chance.
It's Mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com and Molly.
(24:38):
Let's read a couple of emails right about now. All right,
I'm going to read one from Vicky, and this is
about the why do Men Propose? Episode? She writes, when
I first met my husband, I was content getting in
and out of relationships in less than two weeks. I
was in no hurry to settle down. I'm very independent
and wasn't looking for a prince charming to take me away.
(25:01):
As a matter of fact, my husband was warned by
a mutual friend that I would never settle down. So
when things got serious, I think we were both surprised.
After dating for six months, I knew he would never
propose before because when we were first today, I constantly
said I would never get married. So one night I
had him kidnapped from work by his boss, who dropped
him off at a hotel, gave him a room key,
and drive away. I was waiting in the room with
(25:21):
some candleslit, Chinese food from his favorite place, and a
simple gold man's ring, and I asked him to marry me.
He said yes, And now I've been married for sixteen
years on July Therey one, and we have four kids.
Maybe nice, nice little proposal story. All right, Well, I've
got one here from Crystal, and this is in response
to our podcast about women and bartending. Uh. She said,
(25:42):
I broughtened it for five years at my university pub
during my undergrad and part of my master's and had
no idea that there had been such a struggle for
me to reach that position. During those years, I made
quite a few observations. I noticed that most females are
absolutely horrific tippers. A good portion of them wouldn't even
come to the bar with cash in their pockets. They
(26:03):
would just expect some guy to buy their drinks. It
was shameless, and I quite often told the girls that
somehow people forget that the better you treat your bartender
with large tips and a simple please and thank you,
the faster you will get served. I fought out not
served a few ladies who are yelling at me, and
it tipped exactly zero from their previous drink. Why should
I when over all the guys would always be nicer
(26:24):
and tient better. It shames you to admit that about
my own sex, but I've rarely noticed any different. The
nicest female patrons were always women who also worked in
the service industry. So take it from a woman who
knows women. Tip your bartenders and be nice and don't
just expect men to buy your drinks because you might
(26:46):
go home sober. All right, So send us your emails.
It's mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com and
check us out on Twitter, Like us on Facebook if
you don't mind, and always you can follow our blog
It is stuff Mom Never told you and you can
find it at how stuff works dot com. For more
(27:08):
on this and thousands of other topics, does it how
stuff works dot com. Want more how stuff works, check
out our blogs on the house stuff works dot com
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