Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from housetop works
dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline
and I'm Kristen, and welcome to the very end of
the year. We have made it through Thanksgiving, Hanka, Christmas uh,
(00:25):
and now we are standing on the precipice looking towards
the new year. We've almost made it through the holidays season. Stressful,
stressful holiday season. I hope everyone has survived all right
so far. Take a breath. Yeah, it's a tough time
of year. And I'm not just saying tough because if
I hear police Nabby Dad in one more store, I
(00:49):
might have an issue, but because they are physically physiologically stressful. Yeah.
There was an article, for instance, in the journal Hospital
Practice that equated Christmas and New Year's in people's minds
with stressors like blizzards, experiencing earthquakes, the threat of violence,
and job strain. What is going on? I don't know
(01:11):
what's happening. Well, first of all, there is the issue
of just the season. It's winter. It gets darker sooner.
I know, I don't see sunlight nearly as much as
I would like to, and it's cold and so the
Surgeon General actually issued a holiday stress management warning focusing
on seasonal effectiveness disorder or SAD, which affects around ten
(01:35):
percent of the population. Yeah, you're spending a lot of money,
you're not sleeping, well, you might feel lonely in this
all this lack of daylight, and you know, you might
actually have some physical responses to all of this holiday uncheer.
There's something called the Holiday Hearts centerments. Cardiac abnormality is
caused by drinking more than usual. So even in your
(01:59):
celebration this holiday, you could be causing yourself some physical stress.
Although we do have one bit of debunking to do. Um.
It's often thought that because of all of these different
holiday factors and possible loneliness, family stress, gift buying madness,
that rates of depression go up. We hear that a
lot um, But a two thousand six New York Times
(02:21):
article by Anahad O'Connor examined that claim and debunked it. Um.
He maintained that psychiatric visits actually dip during December, and
a Mayo Clinic study spanning thirty five years found no
correlation between the holidays and suicide. Well, that's good. That
is good. But I just wonder if the dip in
(02:43):
psychiatric visits isn't just because people are not taking care
of themselves during the holidays. Yeah, it could very well
be that. It could also be the hectic holiday schedule
as well, because that was the only bright spot in
all of the medical literature in regard to the holidays. Yeah,
not just medical literature, like personal psychological, emotional literature too. Yeah,
(03:05):
which is why we're going to focus today on whether
the holidays are not so healthy for relationships. Because Carolina
learned a new term, and it's called the turkey drop.
That sounds fine. It's not a game, it is, well
to some people, it might be a game because it
denotes this period from Thanksgiving too, right before Christmas, when
(03:31):
more breakups happen than any other time of the year.
I hope we're not hitting too close to home for
some listeners. Well. If we are hitting close to home, though,
at least take heart if you are a broken hearted listener,
that you are not alone at all, right, exactly, You're
definitely not um. And the reason we know this there's
(03:53):
been quite a discussion that was stirred after an infographic
was posted on the Internet a few years act. It
was created by Lee Byron and David McCandless of Information
is beautiful. Um. They wrote the book The Visual Miscellaneum,
and they plotted Facebook relationship status data across the timeline
and found some peak breakup times people. One right before
(04:16):
spring break called the Spring clean, and one two weeks
before Christmas. Yeah, to get specific about it, the first
Monday in December is the most common day to break up. So, hey,
we've made it through that period. We got we got
through that. Um. And the way that they gathered this
(04:37):
data where they weren't just like looking at their friends
Facebook status is, but they actually searched for the frequency
of breakup and broken up in Facebook status is using
a Facebook data gathering tool that is no longer in
existence unfortunately, but allowed you to to search a broad
range of Facebook profiles. And they also set up a
(04:59):
program AM that logged the dates of changes in relationships
status is onto a calendar. Yeah. McCandless said, you know,
I wouldn't call it a study. He was saying that
it's not the intention to claim that anything is definitely true.
It's just an interesting pattern that happens. And Byron second
to that and say it's it's more of a curious exploration. Yeah.
(05:22):
But the thing is, even though McCandless environ are clearly
trying to pump the brakes on everyone, trying to make
this collection of Facebook status is into something more scientific
than it really is. The attention that it got across
news and media outlets was incredible because maybe it was
(05:44):
simply a confirmation of an anecdotal turkey drop pattern that
we had experienced stores since. Um, because it clearly hit
a nerve if you just look at all of the
stories talking about it. But on a bright side, Christmas Day,
guess what, folks, that is the least likely day that
(06:05):
you will get dumped. Because seriously, if you are with
someone who breaks up with you on Christmas Day, that
something is either horribly wrong in that relationship needs to
end or that also that relationship needs to end because
that person doesn't have a heart. Yeah, that sounds like
a mega fight happen. Um. But side notes, speaking of cruelty,
(06:26):
the most the third most popular excuse me breakup day
on Facebook is apparently April Fool's Day. Oh come on now,
which is not funny. And for one more bit of
social media data. Lee Byron and David mccannlis also looked
at reasons for breaking up that people tweeted about, and
(06:47):
the holidays weren't cited. It's not that people say Christmas
is here, get out, but it was more that the
holidays are probably bringing relationships stew pots to a feverish boil. Right.
Byron said, you know, this is a time for end
of the year reflections, and maybe as you're packing your
(07:08):
overnight bag to spend a couple of hours with your family,
you start thinking about does this person fit in with
my family? Would they like him or her? Maybe you
just start to feel that that kind of seasonal effective
disorder kind of settling into your bones, and you're just
you just want to hold up by yourself, and you
just don't want to date anyone anymore. You might not. Yeah,
(07:29):
and one thing that comes up a lot too when
psychologists talk about why the holidays are particularly stressful for
for relationships, is this idealized image that we have of
the perfect holiday romance. This is a time when we're
supposed to fall in love onto snowflakes site and the
(07:51):
soft light of a menora. We're supposed to be running
down the street and our tennis shoes an underwear as
Colin Firth opens his big fluffy coat to catch us. Yeah. Uh,
that's what's supposed to happen Bridget Jones's diary reference for
the uninitiated. Um. But there was a two thousand twelve
study actually published in the Journal of Consumer Research which
(08:12):
found that in this cold weather that we are in
right now, or at least for those of us in
cold climates Australian and New Zealand listeners, you're like, what
what are you talking about? But in cold weather people
are more likely to watch romantic movies and read romance novels. Yeah. Um.
And Andrea Bonnier, who is a licensed clinical psychologist who
(08:36):
was commenting on this study to Northwestern talked about how
feeling cold often makes us want to affiliate. It's very
much a brain body connection at work. Yeah, we want
to snuggle. Yeah, I want to snuggle up with the baddie.
I know my soup consumption and my fun consumption in
particular has gone up. Yeah. Oh my god. Every day.
(08:58):
If I killed the sodium level, I have to worry
about that little. Yeah, I wear a lot more fluffy socks.
People want to cuddle. I bought myself moccasin slippers just
to get through it, just to eat my soup in well,
not while where while I'm eating my stup and eat
my soup out of right? That is some That is
some fluffy, fluffy soup. Um. But so we've got all
(09:18):
these things. We're watching romantic movies. We want to cuddle
up with somebody. Were expecting this idealized version of the holidays,
But meanwhile the real world is a little different. We
have all of these land mines we have to get around,
things like gift giving. How much do you spend? What
if you buy a nice gift in your partner buy
something really crutty? The family visits the first time meetings
(09:42):
and and will your family judge the person. You also
have to worry about going to holiday parties. Do you
bring the person? Will you have to explain who this
person is? Will you have to be forced to define
your relationship in front of co workers? Yes, challenging if
you are relatively new to relationship, because it's the time
when things get real, where all of a sudden, you
have these obligations and you need to decide whether or
(10:06):
not you're going to do it. As an individual or
as a couple, so that can be challenging to get through.
But also if you've been in a relationship for a while,
the expectations are still high because of things like this
being the number one season for engagements and all of
those family pressures, maybe going home with a boyfriend girlfriend
(10:29):
and getting questions from family about when you're gonna get married,
or if you're married, when are you gonna have a baby,
all of these things. Yeah, I know, Thanksgiving, my boyfriend
spend it with his family and I was with my family,
and uh, one of my mother's friends who I don't
even know very well, was at Thanksgiving, and she was
asking when I was going to get married so that
(10:53):
they could all throw us a big party. And I
just gave her this like wide eyed, just kind of
dead eyed stare and and kind of laugh nervously and
walked away, refilled your wine glass, and I'm like, let
me get another thing, a turkey and some more wine.
Holidays can be stressful. Holidays can be stressful, um and
(11:15):
all of those real world stressors are often in direct
contrast to what we are seeing in these holiday movies
that we love so much. During this cold weather because
there are just so many unrealistic expectations that are established.
That comes up again and again and again in these
conversations about holiday stress, whether it's the expectations of an
(11:35):
amazing gift or the perfect gift, the perfect holiday happiness,
the true love e doubbiness that you should all be experiencing.
And talking to ABC News about this, Dr Dorry Lynn,
who is a psychologist, says that the holidays evoke incredibly
high stress and oppression, and the reason that this happens
is that we have the media myth that this is
(11:57):
supposed to be a happy, wonderful, enjoy his time. Yeah
and echoing. Matt Pepper Schwartz, who's a sociologist, told NBC
News that when people start to internalize all of these
ideal images of romance and family, they can begin to
wonder if their own real life relationships match up. You know,
problems in your own life that you might not have
even thought about too much, all of a sudden when
(12:19):
it's the holidays, you think, oh, but I feel so
alone exactly, And the issue of the family holiday visits
no offense. If any of my family members are listening,
I love you all dearly, but having to interact with
the family can refocus things in not always the most
(12:41):
positive way, because yeah, you have incidents like maybe some
well meaning grandmothers or whomever asking for timelines about your
romantic future, or just having to deal with seeing maybe
not so pleasant dynamics between family members and see also
how significant others interact with their families that shines a
(13:04):
new light on that part of them as well. Yeah,
I mean those could be positive things. I mean going
you know, if you go to your boyfriend's house for
Christmas and you see how wonderfully he fits in with everyone,
and you just get all these warm, fuzzy feelings like
it's it's good to see someone in a new positive light.
(13:24):
I mean, yes, that can go horribly awry if the
grandmother then turns to you and says like, you know,
when are you going to have babies? And what are
you gonna lose twenty pounds? Because you know old people Grandma.
Grandma is getting a lot of flak in this episode. Also,
it's not just to enter family dynamics that can clash,
but for couples to who might come from different regions, countries, cultures,
(13:48):
those holiday traditions can clash. As well, especially like if
if you know, one family celebrates Christmas and the other doesn't,
or one makes a huge deal out of it and
the other doesn't. You know, like what if what if
you do ATTACKI sweater party with your family every year
and your boyfriend's family thinks that's ridiculous. Like the sounds
like your boyfriend's family needs to lighten up a little bit.
(14:09):
I'll say that I would just like to point out
that I'm not speaking directly about my boyfriend's family, um,
but speaking to NBC News about this, U c l
A psychology professor Andrew Christensen, who studies intimate relationships, said
that quote family is a likely culprit in holiday breakups.
I totally get this one, you know, because our family's
(14:31):
views of our partners can definitely have a major impact.
I mean, I know, I know from virtual experience, and
this doesn't have much to do with the holidays. But
like in years past, if I would tell my mother
about somebody I was dating and I would get a
certain facial expression. She would never even meet the person,
but I would be like, yeah, it puts a little castle,
(14:51):
little down in your brain. And I on the flip
side of that, have experienced past boyfriend not interacting very
kindly with his mother, which to me was a major
red flag that that kind of behavior would probably trickle
down to me at some point. Yeah so, yeah, so,
(15:14):
I guess if if you're worried about the future of
your relationship, people maybe put off taking your partner home
for the holiday. But here's the thing though, for everyone
who is not in a relationship, who was listening, Listen,
I've been through the holidays single, Caroline, You've been through
the holiday single, and it can get weird even if
you are not attached, because you can still get the
(15:38):
same kind of pressure to get married and have babies
and lose weight or whatever it might be, no matter
what your relationship status is. Yeah. And and a lot
of women in China are not standing for that family
pressure anymore. There is this issue that Time reported on
where Chinese quote unquote left over women are renting boyfriends
(15:59):
for between a h T and D dollars per day
so their families won't worry. Yeah. I mean it's like
that right there. I think there is a rom com
about that, most likely called The Wedding Date, Yeah, starring
Grace from Rulan. Grace really, yeah, where she well, she
rents a wedding date. Huh Okay, well of course they
(16:21):
fall in love. Spoiler. I don't have to see the
whole movie to tell you that. Good figure. Um. But then,
I mean, then you have the sticky, messy, awful, possibly
dangerous issue of running into an X. Oh yeah, yeah.
If you come from a smaller town like I do, inevitably,
(16:41):
when everyone comes home for the holidays, you're probably gonna
see somebody, And especially because it's the holidays, you're probably
gonna see someone when maybe you've had a spiked cider
or two, and it can rekindle those old nostalgic feelings
because the Hollies are also a very nostalgic time. Kind
of the same way, when it's cold, we grabtate towards romantic, snuggly,
(17:02):
fun types of things. We might also gravitate towards the familiar,
a familiar face who has made us feel warm and
snuggling in the past. Right. But I mean warning, you know,
just if you're gonna take that leap with an X,
you know, be sure that you're both on the same page.
I mean, there's always the danger that one of you
(17:23):
will feel a little bit better about the experience than
the other and want to take it farther or get
back together something and the other won't. And also public
service announcement. Sexually transmitted diseases also spike during the holidays,
probably in large part because of the higher rates of
consumption of alcohol and holiday hookups, probably fueled by said alcohol. So, folks,
(17:47):
we're not against the holiday hook up, but just be
safe because it is also the season for an STD.
I've never seen that a Christmas card. They're well, people
should put them on Christmas cards and maybe the rights
would go down. Put a condom in every Christmas card?
You go, perfect, Okay, Well, so you know we've just
(18:11):
told you about what a mine field the holidays can be.
You've got to worry about running into an X, You've
got to worry about getting dumped or breaking up with
your significant other, you have to worry about family pressure
and about all sorts of things. Or you don't have
to worry at all, Caroline, Because maybe if we can
maintain mindfulness that a lot of the stress that goes
(18:35):
into the holidays might be fueled by these unrealistic expectations
peddled by terrible movies. And holiday greeting card commercials. Yeah,
that could help. Some of those commercials do make my
little Grench heart grow three sizes. It's true. Yeah, I get,
I get goose bumps. It's it's true. But seriously, though,
(18:58):
maintaining realistic expectations, I think, especially for people in relationships,
is a key to getting through this possibly stressful time.
If there's a specific gift that you want, just tell
your significant other. If there is a specific way that
you feel the holidays, should go tell your significant other.
And if there's a problem, you'll work it out. Really,
the key is communication. You'll work it out. You should
(19:21):
be a life coach with that. And I got your tagline,
you'll work it out. Do you think that could fit
on a vanity license plate? I'm sure. Just tick the
vowels out, it's fine, um, and don't forget you know.
When you're visiting your family, try to steer clear of
controversial controversial topics like politics, religion, all of that stuff,
and stay gracious. And if grandma starts to press about
(19:43):
why you're not married, or why you're single, or why
you're dating a bartender, just look at her and say,
why do you ask? M? M? Good? Deflective question. I
do find that my blank stare is very off putting.
My eyes just get real big and I just go
dead behind them. Um, and people do tend to drop it.
(20:04):
I find it works at work or at home with
the family. It sounds like you should be a life
coach too, my My promotional materials would be horrifying. Um.
But also if you are single during this season, or
if you are recently single too, take heart because statistically,
(20:25):
thanks to the Turkey drop, there are more single people
this year at this time of year. Um. And I
know that's probably the least comforting thing that you can
hear through your earbuds right now. Um, but it is true.
I mean there there are a lot of single people.
And personally speaking, though, I can tell you that having
been through a number of holiday seasons solo, it's best
(20:48):
to just just bulldoz through it because it's a time
off of work. You eat some food, you drink some drinks,
probably at a holiday party, trying to have a good
time and block out all of those love actually esque
messages about how everyone should be falling in love. Yeah, yeah,
(21:09):
I just hate love actually. Yeah. It's it's probably and
I get so much flak for it, like nobody, somebody,
somebody out there somewhere, please please hop on board with
me here Carolyn. Side note, there was recently an article
in the Atlantic that has been thought yeah about how
Love actually is the least romantic movie. Yeah, And I
(21:32):
wouldn't even argue for or against that, uh, that statement
that stands. I would just say that it's a terribly
made movie. What's a holiday movie that you do? Like
Home Alone? Oh, that's a good one, number one see
And that's great because it's not all about a fallen
in love and and it does have some heartwarming parts
of it. Uh. There warning there is a tarantula in
(21:54):
the movie. If you haven't seen it, I don't know
why you wouldn't have seen it. But I saw that
it's more of a Thanksgiving movie. But I saw planes, trains,
and automobiles for the first time a couple of weeks ago,
and it was a delight. It is a delight, although me,
being the neurotic traveler that I am, it stressed to
be out so much. Although it is a lovely, lovely
(22:15):
romance between Steve Martin and John Candy, Yeah, a lovely,
like non romantic kind of friend romantic film. Um, so there, Yeah,
I think there are definitely ways to get through the
holiday stress by treating ourselves right, trying to eat as
well as we can, get some extra exercise if possible,
(22:38):
get in the sun if at all possible, and just
try to ride ride that sorry. Uh and um, and
just trying to relax as much as possible because it's
just another holiday season and it doesn't have to be perfect.
Let yourself have a piece of pie, don't stress, just
enjoy it. Yeah, and by one piece of pie, I'm
(23:00):
saying all of the pie, eat all of the pie.
Is a new year, that's right. So now though we
want to hear from you, do you have tactics management
tips for making the holidays go smoothly, especially for people
out there who are not only dealing maybe with just
(23:23):
single doom or being in a relationship with one person,
but also having kids. How do you make all of
those things work together at the same time and not
lose your mind? Let us know mom stuff at Discovery
dot com. And by the way, happy holidays to everybody.
We hope that it's going well so far. We're almost
through it. Um, but let's take this moment to all
(23:46):
commiserate in the in the fact that it's not exactly
the most wonderful time of the year. So email us.
You can tweet us at mom Stuff Podcasts, and you
can find us on Facebook as well messages there, and
we had a couple of messages to share with you
when we come right back from a quick break and
now back to our letters. Well, Caroline, I have some
(24:10):
not so great news from Lisa in regard to our
episode that we did on Faction a while ago, because
subject line she said, your Faction episode made me feel
fugly sad face and give me a sad face, she writes,
because I typically love you too. Let me start with
what you got right. Thank you for acknowledging how many
American women are plus size. You also totally understood the
(24:33):
perils of both swimsuits and online shopping. Very thoughtful, and
thank you for calling out retailers to carry more clothes.
But here's where I have a problem. As a plus
size women, I do not give you permission to call
me fat. I know the blogs were owning it and
that the blogs were your subject, but fat is a
word of terror and you can't throw it around casually,
just like other social or ethnic monikers. It is one
(24:55):
thing for the possessor to say it, in another for
an outsider to say it. BA so where that taunted
me tortured me from age six, even when I was
still a skinny tomboy. Fat kept me from trying too
many new things or dating until college. I got a
prestigious scholarship to a good university and later got accepted
to a very very good grad school. In both places,
I spent much of my time worrying if I was
too fat for people like me. I had an even
(25:17):
disorder by the time I was seventeen, but I felt
I was too fat to admit until I was twenty five.
I sobbed over close it didn't fit and walked around
with pneumonia for three months because I didn't want any
more weight lectures from the student health doctor who barely
knew me. And even now, in my thirties, I can
still hear every fact criticism ever overheard, and every playground insult.
I found the fat insensitivity especially disappointing because it came
(25:39):
so closely after your Halloween costume episode, in which you
could not have been more culturally sensitive. I don't think
you meant to be hurtful this time around, but I
was hurt and I just want to emphasize that, Lisa,
absolutely we were not meaning to be hurtful in and
we were we were using the language that was out
(26:00):
there by the bloggers, and we weren't calling you fat.
We were trying to celebrate these bodies and this fashion,
and it's a type of reclamation that has been going on.
We as podcasters who do a lot of research into
the topics that we try to present in a very
(26:21):
sensitive way. We want to present you with the language
that these various social movements use, and so we by
no means are attempting to ourselves co opt any language
that could be perceived as purple. And we certainly would
never intentionally say anything hurtful to or about our listeners. Yeah,
(26:42):
I mean, and when it comes to descriptors of female bodies,
whether it's fat or it's skinny, they can both be
wielded as insults. And I'm not saying that I do
not hear your concerns loud and clear, but I just
want to emphasize for other listeners who may have felt
like we were being insensitive as well, that we were
(27:04):
sincerely celebrating this movement and this call for greater representation
for women of all sizes as so thank you for
writing in though Lisa, Okay, well, I have a letter
here from Gloria. She is writing in in response to
(27:24):
our Women in Stems series. UM. She says, after listening
to your recent series on women in stem I wanted
to share my own experience as someone who left science
for PR. Growing up, I was expected to do well
in science and math at home and in school because
I'm Asian. It wasn't that I did better in those
subjects than English or history. Was an honor in AP
(27:46):
classes for all subjects throughout high school and had pretty
much the same spot on the s A T s
for both. But because I displayed aptitude for science, I
was pushed toward a career in anything medicine related. As
a result, I started college majoring first and bio chemistry,
but eventually switched to microbiology, immunology, and molecular genetics. But
please note, my family is really not that stereotypical. My
(28:08):
mom boast about not caring whether my second older sister
took AP calculus or culinary arts in high school. My
third sister was encouraged to pursue music, and if she
didn't have time to practice because she had math homework,
my fourth sister would be given a calculator and told
to complete it. But again, because all Asians are good
at math, and so were my sisters, I was expected
to be good as well. And since I'm good at math,
(28:30):
I'm automatically good at science. Anyhow, while I was in college,
I realized that I really didn't enjoy science and did
not want to go into medicine at all. I loved
all of my classes except my science classes, but my
family encouraged me to stay in science because it offers
more job stability once I graduate, which was half true
once the recession hit. After getting my bachelors in science,
(28:50):
I went on to work in a diagnostic lab as
a tech. While I was good at my job and
the fact that I wasn't facing layoffs like most people
in two thousand and eight, I still hated it. I
was fly different from people at work and just didn't
have the personality for any job in science. To have
something enjoyable to do, I started beauty blogging. I realized
from there that I loved interacting with people, and after
a few years decided to quit my job, move across
(29:12):
the country and pursue a new career and beauty pr.
I now absolutely love my job. I love working with
the media, flexing my creative muscles, and being around like
minded people. Surprisingly, my science training kicks in quite often,
since beauty is rooted in science. Just the other week,
I was looking at published scientific articles on circadian rhythm
in order to craft a pitch about skincare. So thank
(29:35):
you for sharing your science and not science and sort
of science story with us, Gloriam, and thanks to everybody
who's written in mom Stuff at Discovery dot com is
where you can send us your letters. You can also
tweet us at mom Stuff podcast, and you can follow
us on Tumbler stuff mo I'm Never told You dot
tumbler dot com. Oh yeah, and we're on Facebook. You
can message us there like us. While you're at it.
(29:57):
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happy holidays everybody.