Are We Failures?

In the first episode of a mini-series looking at trauma and sexual assault, Anney and guest co-host Samantha discuss the question of failure.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie, and you're listening to stuff I've
never told you. Today we are joined by a good
friend of mine, Samantha. I actually met Samantha through past

(00:27):
co host Caroline. Thank you so much for joining us, Samantha.
Could you tell us about yourself? Sure? Hey, y'all, Um,
thanks Annie for letting me be a part of this,
and hopefully I won't embarrass you too much. So a
little about me, Um. I'm a social worker from the
North Georgia Mountains, so you will be hearing y'all from

(00:49):
me a lot. You know, we Southerners are ridiculously friendly. Yeah,
so you know y'all are already all of my best friends.
I just need more friends. What do you already got me?
I don't know what you're talking about. I mean, I'm
slowly drawing you in. I feel like I've tricked you
in pretty well, So hopefully I can do that with
many more people, because I'm lonely. Well. One of the

(01:10):
things I am very passionate about is advocating for the
rights of women and children and how we can do
more for each other and help protect each other, which
is kind of why I'm here right right. Yeah, and
I I like to put a spotlight on everybody. Bring
on here. Actually I haven't really done this, but I'm
going to do it to you. Um. May I ask,

(01:30):
how did you become a feminist? Amantha? Well, that's a
loaded question and I'm kind of ready and I'm kind
of not ready. So we'll just look at the past
of my life. How about that? Um. Honestly, I think
I finally admitted I was a feminist in college. For
a while, I was under the impression that feminism was
a bad word and that men were supposed to be
the head of the household. But in college I realized

(01:53):
if it wasn't for feminism, I wouldn't even be able
to be there. Um. That's also where I realized how
strong of a personality that I am, and oftentimes the
men who are supposed to lead me seemed to lack something.
Not all men. I'm just saying that once I was
with in college, and I felt guilty for having very
strong opinions around them because I felt like I was

(02:14):
supposed to be following them and not leading them. Um.
I think it was more of just understanding how feminism
has opened up so many opportunities for us, um and
being able to continue forward and grow in a way
that we couldn't have done long like years and years before,
and even with my mom, things that have held her

(02:37):
back as a female, thinking that she had to follow
her husband to the end of times and follow his
lead has impacted the adventures that she's been able to
have or not have. So honestly, it took that long
for me to actually get onto the board of Yes,
I am a feminist, this is what I believe. And now,

(02:57):
in this day and age, um, meaning this last couple
of years, I realized how important it is to actually
take on that word as a movement and move forward
and to truly wear it instead of just make it
a stigma. Yeah. Yeah, I've shared a similar um story
about my own coming into feminism on the show, and

(03:17):
this show is one of the ways that helped me
do that. And so I'm really glad to continue with
the show and hope that it provides that for someone
else who might be listening. Um. But a couple of
weeks ago, you and I were having a cheese get together.
I love cheese. My social media, I believe, is half

(03:38):
pictures of cheese. Yeah. Most of the time I brought
people to come over to my place because I have cheese. Yes,
it works, it does work. It's very successful. Um. And
as we are, we were eating our cheese and discussing
ways that we could work together and episode ideas, and
we came up with something super easy and light, so
easy in light, a ten to twelve maybe episode mini

(04:00):
series on sexual assault, trauma and all of that in
the era of Me Too. I mean, to be honest,
I'm trying to push it to like a twenty series
episode just so I can live here. But that's just me. Yeah,
I mean very well. Could be keeps getting The episode
list keeps getting longer and longer, um. And we're gonna
talk to lawyers, nurses, police therapist. We're really excited about

(04:23):
it and think it's going to be really great, but
it isn't going to be easy for for us or
for the people working on it, and I know it
will be difficult for you listeners. I've been on the
other side as the listeners of this podcast, and we're
going to intersperse some lighter stuff in there. But UM,
always think about your mental health when deciding to listen
or not listen. And in each episode, we'll give a

(04:45):
warning at the top, so you'll know what specifically we're
dealing with in that episode. And just a heads up,
we're going to be talking about trauma due to sexual
assault emp use in this episode. If that is something
that is triggering for some, due to the sensitive nature
of the topic, we're not going to delve too deeply
into it, but we will discuss it a little bit.
And Um, you suggested Samantha that it might be good

(05:08):
to define trigger and trigger warnings, right, Um, I think
with the new way the word is well, not the
new way we think the word, the way the word
is being used today, we need to adjust what that
is and why it's important to the listeners and to
anyone to know what may come and how it may
cause some access anxiety. So trigger is defined as a
cause to do something or the stress that arouses feelings

(05:31):
or memories associated with a particular traumatic experience, and with
the subjects that we're talking about in this many cities,
it's important that you understand and trigger is not just
a fad word or not just an overused word, but
actually something that's important to protect ourselves at a time
where we become more and more willing, Thank goodness, because
of the issues that have come up. We need to
be able to understand what trauma is and what we're

(05:53):
able to face and what we're not able to face.
And I think it's important when we say trigger, we're
not just trying to be kitchy. Yeah, we're trying to
protect everyone's emotions because, as we know, statistically, more women
have been through many of these traumatic experiences than not
and so with those personal experiences, you need to be

(06:14):
able to protect yourself mentally, emotionally and physically. So, yeah,
that's triggering, And honestly, it's a part of taking control
of that and being able to say I can't handle
this right now, and that's okay. It's not a weakness,
it's not a failure. It is knowing who you are
and knowing and understanding yourself, which takes a lot. As

(06:35):
a social worker, I deal with trauma on a daily basis,
whether it's another kids going through some trauma, a parent
going through some trauma. Now work with the Department Family
and Children's Services, it was a daily thing and for me,
trying to be strong and ignore the signs that I
was actually being affected was more harmful. And even though

(06:56):
we didn't use the words trigger. At that point in time,
that's exactly what was happening. I was being triggered because
of my past trauma, which of course we're going to
talk about later on. I wasn't dealing with the fact
that it was causing an emotional and honestly physical damage
to me every time, and instead of saying I need
a break, I try to shuffle through, thinking that if

(07:17):
I showed that it was affecting me, then I'm being
weak and that's not the story. So we want to
make sure for anyone who's listening and who have gone
through anything similar to this, and or know someone who's
gone through similar things, that is okay to say I
need to take a break. Yes, very much so, UM,
and we're gonna try to be really like upfront and

(07:38):
honest with what we're doing for each other and self
care that we're doing. And we're gonna get more into
that a little bit later. But since you're going to
be with us throughout these ten to twelve to twenty episodes, Samantha, Um,
we thought it would be a good way to to
kick off this many series with a sort of get
to know you type of thing. Yes, this is going

(08:01):
to be a real illuminating deep dive, and we figured
we'd approach it by asking ourselves this question, and it's
one that we have both found ourselves asking are we failures?
Because you and I that were in different stages in
our life, we both discussed how we feel like failures. Right,

(08:24):
So okay, then we're gonna be talking about singleness. Yes,
I'm raising my hand. That's me, childlessness. Oh yeah again,
I'm raising my hand on that one, and being poor
social worker. I am always poor. Someone feed me? Can
you feed me? I heard these snacks here. I'm going
to take all of them. She did bring the bags.

(08:45):
Worry about it, y'all. I will help you abscond with
some snacks. I'm excited. I think it's only fair. It's
a shopping spree. Yeah. Yeah, So I am also single,
also childless. When I was a kid, I thought I
would be me aid by twenty three and I would
have my first child because I was going to have
three maybe four. If I had twins. I had their

(09:08):
names picked out everything. Is there twins in your family? No,
you just thought maybe you would have time. I just
thought maybe. I think I wanted twins because I was
fascinated with Mary, Kate Nashley. So I love Star Wars
and Luke and Leah, and we kind of talked about
some of the things, the themes that were touching on
in our episode around making friends with Loneliness. I haven't

(09:28):
had a lot of success dating ever. The only long
term relationship I've ever had lasted for three years and
we broke up. Um. I think two years ago. I
think we're coming up on the date. And I would
say we broke up for three main reasons. I'm the
type of person that like list things I write why

(09:49):
I still have it? Okay, well, all right, So he
had just turned thirty and he knew I didn't want
to get married, I didn't want to have kids, I
didn't want to buy a house, and he just felt like,
I'm thirty and I want these things, and now I'm
wasting time, honestly turning thirty. For me, just to put

(10:11):
it out there, I am in my late thirties. I'm
not gonna give you specifics because you know I'm going
to hide all of that behind my young, youthful face.
Just agree with me, any yes, thank you. UM was
pretty significant for me. I had just lost my job
and was trying to figure out what to do with
my life. I literally didn't have the place to live,
and I was crashing on someone's couch. I wasn't doing anything,
I thought by the time I turned thirty. I mean,

(10:33):
I grew up in a religious household which believed that
a woman's duty was to be married and bared children
and support your husband. I had none of that. Don't
get me wrong. That wasn't necessarily something I wanted to do.
But because I didn't even have a relationship at that
point in time, I didn't have any prospects of actually
making money. I felt, obviously, this is the worst case

(10:56):
scenario for being thirty. I was homeless, I had no job,
I had no family mm hmm. And of course for
my birthday, it was a little bit sad. On my
thirtieth birthday, I literally ended up in a bar in
a very small town drinking some awful, awful, pink, sugary
drink adult beverage we'll leave it at that, which resulted

(11:19):
in one of the worst hangovers ever. Happy thirtieth birthday
wasn't an Applebee's, No, but you know what. I used
to go to that place often after one of our
hard days from the children's services and would do a
bad child abuse and vinsification. I went for those long
Beach Long Islands. They're only two dollars. They were delicious.
The first legal drink I bought was that an Applebee's

(11:42):
and I have not been able to forget it was
Bahama Mama, the Bahama Mama. Did you get the big
version that was the glass? Of course didn't you did
it right? I'm proud of you. I had a good
I mean I wouldn't. It's not something I would enjoy now,
but I think for the twenty first birthday, it was
a good one. That was good one. It's a good
way to go. Why do you think why do you

(12:02):
think that is that you that you felt this way
at thirty? Specifically well obviously being the low the low,
losing a job and feeling like I was it self sufficient,
and having that small fear that I was going to
have to live at home at the age of thirty.
I was petrified also because I didn't want to live

(12:23):
in the mountains of North Georgia where there is literally
one Walmart and three traffic lights. It's great and all,
but not when you're thirty single and sad. I mean,
that's just bad ideas all together in that one place.
And then I think, also, I kind of blame my mom,
not because she's a bad person, but she was also

(12:44):
the person who got married as a teenager. And all
of our conversations about relationships had to do with finding
the one, finding the one, finding the one, and I
was the one child of the four. I'm the youngest
of four that didn't bring home significant others. So they
were all worried that either I was gay, which I
don't understand that, or that I was going to die alone.

(13:04):
And many of our conversations my mother and I would
turn to how she didn't want me to die alone,
but she would then cry about and I would just
sit and stare. Yeah. So yeah, I definitely felt like
I feeled just for that conversation alone. Yeah. It is
interesting how thirty seems to be this this decade, like
all of a sudden, Oh no, I recently turned thirty,
and I have to admit it. I have started thinking

(13:29):
more and more about being forty and being alone. And
that's just it. Like nothing else. It's a sea of
loneliness in my apartment. Um, no one calls me, No
one checks in. I just sit alone and stare at
the wall waiting. This is why you get a dog
that judges you. At least you have someone to argue
with that kind of doesn't argue back, but stares at

(13:51):
you with this look on her face, like why are
you still here? Do you think your neighbors can hear
you arguing with your dog? They absolutely can, perfect and
most of the time they're on her side. Oh come on, yeah,
come on, come on, Samantha's neighbors, come on. One of
the first things, um, someone in her office said to
me when she found out I had turned thirty, well,

(14:12):
it's time to be an adult and no more goofing off.
And I experienced a real moment of is that what
it is? Oh? No, I mean exactly. You magically turned
thirty and everything should be very put together. You should
well put together. You should not be spilling things on yourself.
You should not be falling, you should not be wearing
um dirty clothes. Oh. Yes, Samantha and I are both

(14:35):
very clumsy. I actually fell down at a at a
bar this weekend for no reason I can pinpoint. I
just sort of fell Well, when you know you and
I are discussing doing this. As we were leaving, I
definitely just fell flat on the ground of the parking lot.
My favorite part of that was that guy watching us,
just staring at it. She made no move to help her,
didn't say anything, and my mind, I was like, this

(14:55):
is where I live now. Yeah, we just sort of
relaxed for a minute. But I'm I'm someone who I
I'm very active and I go do a lot of things,
and I I'm not. I don't know why I'm suddenly
I'm worried as if something's gonna shut down, and I'm
just never gonna leave my apartment again. I'm a conjuled myself. Honestly,

(15:17):
I think that's kind of how our friendship started, just
because you would actually go alone to places. I was
working at a bar. You came in with a mutual
friend and you just sat there. And then I invited
you again and you came alone. You sat there, and
I was like, I don't know many women who would
just do this. I know many men who would do this,
but you did. And then I ran into you at
a random food festival and you're just chilling by yourself, Like, hey, Anny,

(15:40):
you you're just sitting here. I'm just hating some food.
If you want to join us, Yeah, I mean I
don't know many women who would go and do things
like that by themselves. That's pretty courageous to me. Thank you. Yeah.
I do love going out, and um, I I have
this weird kind of internal I'm gonna go and do

(16:02):
all of the things. I call it maximizing. Um. But
I'm so glad that I did run into you at
that food festival that was so random and great. We
took a lot of bottles of prosecco. Yeah, yeah, we did, well,
you did. I had to walk home, so I just
sort of like aided and embedded. It's funny because I

(16:22):
am really independent and outgoing, and I've never thought about
it through someone else's eyes. But now sometimes I'll have
like this whisper of a thought of like, am I
aesthetic at this theater by myself? Watching this children's movie?
And then I quickly dismiss it. But I have the
thought now and I didn't used to. Is it because

(16:45):
it's the children's movie or because you're by yourself? It's Oh,
I think it's that one's double compounded a double. I
think I did that I was a nanny way back when,
and I would pick out the movies that I wanted
to see with the kids and just be like, yeah,
definitely chose this movie. And I'm not the one who
wants to watch this, but of course I did have
the front of being a nanny. Another thing that I've

(17:07):
been thinking about lately is I have an aunt who
is the oldest of my mom's siblings, and she's alone
and she's sick, and the way people talk about her,
like her existence is so tragic and so empty it
kind of shocks me. Um. But she she does stuff,
and she does a lot of stuff. She helps babysitter, grandkids,

(17:27):
she's she has a lot of friends, like, she's always
out doing things. But it's as if because she doesn't
have this like husband, family thing, she doesn't exist or
she just must be so sad. You know. I actually
have a situation like that too. I had an aunt
who lived with her brother and her only socialization was

(17:49):
with my father, And that was one of the examples
I would get from my mom about dying alone. Do
you want to end up like Aunt so and so,
where she's alone and other people have to come take
care of her. Which was a fantastic way to do Christmas.
But like, I've also had aunts and uncles who, when
their spouses pass away, there by themselves and everybody feel

(18:10):
sorry for them. But every time I go to see them,
they're gone. They're doing things, they're being active, they're getting
new boyfriends, they getting new days. It's just it's not
as you we used to be. And I'm not really
sure why that stigma of being alone is such a
death sentence. But yeah, I definitely here all the time,
all the time. Yeah Christmas, I hear you. Another layer

(18:36):
to this is that my father is dying of terminal
cancer and there was a pressure to get married before
he died so he could walk me down the aisle
and that he could see these grandkids that he had.
UM and I have two siblings, but I think they
none of us are UM married, No one's close to

(18:58):
having kids. My older brother did just get engaged and
he's having a cleon wedding and I'm going to be
there and I'm so happy about it. But I think
there was kind of this like pinning of hopes to me,
like I was the one that was going to go
do this like normal family thing and that's something that
he had to learn to let go, and so did I,
because for a while I was seriously considering I could

(19:18):
just find somebody that I like well enough, and I'll
get married and I'll settle and at least my dad
will have been able to walk me down the aisle,
which is not a great way to go into a relationship.
And now I've let go of that part. But now
there's this pressure to take care of my mom and
make sure she's not lonely. And what will she do?

(19:39):
She'll be so alone. And my mom is a strong person,
but I do have the sense that I don't want
her to be alone, Like I think about it and
I just don't. It tugs at my heart. Um, and
she got married so young before she figured out who
she really was on her own, and the conversations I've
had with her have upset me so much because she

(20:02):
just sounds so lost, like I don't know, I don't
really know who I am. I mean, my mom very
similar to that, except for the criminal cancer bit. But
my mom got and my dad got married really really young.
I think we're hitting up into forty nine year anniversary,
if year anniversary, and I do not know what my

(20:23):
mother would do if my father would pass away. I'm
very worried about that. That's been a scenario in my mind,
which is awful. But I hope she dies before my
dad because I know at least my dad is self
sufficient enough. He's the one that's had the job. He's
the one that's taking care of the home. Don't get
me wrong, he would be very lonely because I think

(20:43):
they can count on one hand how many times they
have not slept together, like physically slept together. So he
would be lost without her. But my mom, her emotions
are empathy, and her love and just passion for her
husband is unreal, and I think a lot of that
has to do with dependency in in habit. But I

(21:05):
I don't know what they would do if they were
not together. I think that's what she would desire for
all of her kids, and that's what she pushed that
onto me, because she's realized as of late, as all
of my siblings have all gotten divorced, that not everyone
can have their dream. But I know that was something
that would push her and motivate hers that as a mom,

(21:27):
what I want to see for you is that you're
not alone that you're going to be taken care of,
not realizing I'm pretty self sufficient. I can take care
of myself. I mean, if I have to sleep on
someone's couch, I'll do that, right. I have to go
work out a Carbucks? Yeah, Oh that, and that's something too.
I think that's the whole episode that I'd love to
come back to. Is just like having these conversations with

(21:49):
my mom because she did come from a different time,
like things were just different than they are now, and
and she is really receptive to oh, things aren't like
they were when I was dating and getting married and
having kids, that they're just not the same. Um. And
she's a super strong woman woman. And I don't want

(22:12):
to make it sound like my dad dying and she's
just gonna be like helpless. That's not it at all.
I just care about her, and I know it's been
difficult and it will be difficult. Just from the little
I know of your family history, she's already endured more
than most. So that alone makes me think that you
guys will be just fine and she'll be just fine.
But the and minute, oh my gosh, yeah, what's gonna

(22:36):
happen next? Is always always scary especially because you don't
know for sure how things will end. Yeah, and she
is truly like one of my best friends. I love
her hang out a lot, Yeah, I love it. Yeah.
But so this was all part of reason number one
why I broke up with my ex boyfriend. Really, it

(22:58):
was a mutual breakup. I'm the it was mutual. Um.
So yes, let's move on to reason too, which is
I don't like having sex. Yeah, and I think it's
for a couple of reasons. I've mentioned before on the
show that I have exercised linia, and um, one of
the side effects of that is lack of sex drive.

(23:20):
And you and I were discussing this at at the bar,
the one that we yeah that time, um, and we
went on a tangent about how society expects women to
look a certain way, but that certain way might take
away their sex drive, and that men are entitled sex,
but specifically sex with a certain type of body. So

(23:43):
don't get mad at us society, right. I mean, so
for me, now you get to really get to know
who I am. Dirty secrets of my life that are
really dirties. Sad was that I actually didn't have sex
until I was twenty five. And a majority of that
was because of my body shoes. I felt like being
a certain way, being sort of type, even being a

(24:05):
certain race, was going against me, and I was absolutely
fearful of showing that off. Don't get me wrong, I
really wanted to have sex. I'm one of those girls
I got. I'm that the girl who wants to be
laid on that too much. I'm sorry, um, but I'm
also the girl who did not fit the stereotype of

(24:28):
the typical Asian that men fetish about, which, by the way,
I don't want that, but there is that ideal of
Asian women are slim, and this and this and this,
and I also was not, um, I'm not white, but
because I grew up in a white area, white social
circle circle, thank you, I thought I was supposed to
be that standard as well. Instead, I was this the

(24:49):
Asian girl with no booty, meaning my mom who, by
the way, I'm adopted, so I have white family. Just
to put that out there, my mom made a joke
to me and I was so confused, which sweet Southern
woman says Smith, I didn't know you took a new
as a tall pill. I don't know what what what
are you talking? About you because you ain't got no
s at all. Gosh, and that was my white mother

(25:13):
who says, mercy me and bless your heart. Yeah. Body issues, Yeah,
that is something else we could and should do an
entire episode on. I mean, I know we've talked about
it before, but there's so much there, um, and we
probably will get into that a little bit more in

(25:35):
this mini series. When I was in high school, I
ended up in the hospital because of body image issues,
and um, this is something I tried repeatedly to get
my ex boyfriend understand that to me, my body is
gross and you're telling me that you think I'm sexy
does not change that. Showing people my body is a
self conscious, miserable experience, and he could not wrap his

(25:58):
mind around that. Yeah, you're right, we could do a
whole other episode on this issue. We should just say,
because I don't want to leave another episode. But it's
terrifying to know strong women like you feel this and
at the same time completely understandable. I have a constant
struggle about my body and the idea of being naked
in front of people. It's terrified. I have a constant

(26:18):
issue of trying to debate do I eat this, Don't
I eat this? Do I drink this, Don't I drink this?
How much do I have to work out to combat
what I've just eaten? And it's a constant thing. I
weigh myself every day and based on the skills, how
I feel that day. But just an awful, awful way
to go about life. But it's a constant struggle and
being even in my late thirties, I'm more confident now

(26:42):
than I was twenty years ago. I am more confident
now than I was fifteen years ago. But it's still
a day. They struggled because you see and look around
about what the standards are. And even though we've gotten
better about showing real women, they're still the stigma of yeah,
but you need to look like is if you want
to be like this, you should look like this. And

(27:03):
when you don't hit those points, you feel like you felt,
you feel like you need to stay at home with
your dog. Eating more cheese sticks. Yeah, I love cheesesticks. Well,
we've established that we love cheese. Cheese. Yeah, Um, it's
one of those things I feel guilty, like every time
I eat, I feel guilty, And um, I remember there's

(27:26):
been a couple of studies that are shown that for women,
a lot of women who don't enjoy sex, it's because
the whole time they feel so self conscious about their body.
And that's sad, like this should be a pleasurable experience
for both parties, for all parties involves and we're definitely
gonna talk more about this. But um, I told you
I'm on the online dating world and I've been there
for it's almost like a part time job. Yeah, I

(27:49):
probably should rethink my strategy because I'm really really bad
at it. But one of the things about I think
there's one specific site that asked the questionnaire about if
you don't feel good about yourself, are you still able
to have sex? And the majority of the men that
I've seen responding like absolutely yes anytime. And for the
majority of the women, they're like no, no, no, no, no,
don't touch me, don't look at me. I'm going to

(28:10):
hide away in my barrel lap sack in the corner
eating one sticks. That's just gonna be my theme, I guess.
But that's a thing that is a constant thing. If
I don't feel good about myself, all I can think
while I'm with you is what do I look to
you and it's it's awful. It shouldn't be like that.
It should be pleasurable. It should be a moment of

(28:31):
intimacy and feeling like you're together or at least just
enjoying it. But it's not. It becomes a whole different thing.
It does. Um. Another thing at play for me is
and you and I have talked about this off my air,
is that I've wondered whether or not I am a sexual.
I've always considered myself queer, and I've attracted to men

(28:52):
and women. I've dated men and women, but still I
have never wanted to have sex. Um, that's something I'm
still trying to figure out about myself, still learning, still growling. Yeah,
I mean I think that has a lot to do
with intimacy too, And I know again we're gonna talk
more and more about this, the idea of intimacy, the
idea of how trauma affects our personal being. For me,

(29:13):
it's sex in relationship with something I could separate as
two different things. So I'm the not the opposite, but
in a different m prospect because I like sex. Don't
get me wrong, I enjoy sex, and I'm I'm not
gonna get too deep into that, but you know I
enjoy it. However, I do separate relationship from that oftentimes,
and I make the mistake of having one or the

(29:34):
other and then coming back to trying to put them together.
I think, just to let you know, into my very
uneventful life, I hadn't had a relationship last longer than
seven months. And for me, the idea forever it is
very foreign to me, even at late thirties. I cannot
completely comprehend the idea of the rest of my life,

(29:56):
I mean forever, wherever, ever, ever, ever, it's just something
that doesn't make sense to me. And so for me
to put that with sex, a relationship with intimacy plus sex,
it seems like such a big thing that I cannot
comprehend that as one m And you know that has
a lot to do with my own trauma and attachment issues,

(30:18):
which will get into later on. Yeah, And going off
of that, the third and final reason, uh, main reason
because I could have level list that I me and
my last boyfriend broke up is my history with sexual
assault and abuse in trauma, and it was something I
was relatively open with open about with him um and
we both thought we could work through it, and that

(30:40):
turned out to not be the case. And I want
to stay here that my ex boyfriend was a lovely person.
He never pushed me or made me feel uncomfortable. We
had what I would call the most mature break up.
We said to each other, here all the things I
love and like about you, but here are the things
I don't think that you can give me. Our thing
I can't get out of this relationship, and that was

(31:03):
that you're still friends, right, Yeah, we're meeting later tonight.
To me, x people did not exist. They go into
the void of nowhere that I don't ever want to
see again. Well, it was definitely awkward, and it's it's
so easy to fall back into old habits. So we

(31:24):
don't hang out too too often, but you know we do, yes, Um,
And I like to joke that Donald Trump killed our relationship. Um,
it's half joking, half true. Is that really a joke though? Yeah,
because his election was the final nail in our relationship, coffin.

(31:44):
Because we were at a party soon after, and I
don't know, something just snapped in my brain and I
started shouting at him like I'm not okay, you know,
I'm not okay. Why are we both pretending I'm okay?
Because I couldn't. I couldn't. There was a mask I
had up and it just broke, it crumbled, and I

(32:06):
couldn't keep going anymore. And that's why, like I think,
I told you, this is the most I've ever told anybody.
I've never shared so much of what we're talking about,
and it's because I couldn't go on anymore. Um. It
was exhausting. And UM, I am a very logical person,

(32:27):
and even I always felt like I'm less than, I'm
not enough, but I knew logically that wasn't true, so
I was able to kind of Okay, I know you
feel this way, but here's logic reason x y Z
why you're wrong. But then when Trump was elected, it
was a signal to me that in the eyes of
people of society, I was less than. And if you

(32:50):
feel that way and then you see like this sign,
it's really hard to fight that. UM. I know that's
part of our conversations that we had. UM after our
cheese night, cheese and wine night. I had wine there
to y'all. But at this point in time, this is

(33:10):
the best time to come forward because we need to
support each other. And you and I were talking about
the fact that everybody's like, why is everybody having so
many issues? So all now women will report things now,
And it's not so much that was happening now. It's
more that they've been empowered. You hear one story and
encourages another to tell their story. They hear their story

(33:31):
and encourages another tale the story. It's not so much
that it's a new thing. It's more so that we've
taken on our power and felt like we could finally
advocate for ourselves and talk about what's wrong, and we
want to correct that. And we're gonna take it back,
take that power back, and take these issues that have
haunted us for so long and shamed us when it

(33:53):
was not our fault. I think for me, my attachment
issues due to my TRAPA affect my relationships all together.
I think, um, when you can see in my past
relationships there's this concept of me being disposable as a
female and not completely trusting men. I'm gonna say, especially
white men. I have a hard time, as a woman

(34:14):
of color feeling like I am of worth do them.
I grew up in an era of being used and
when I when I say that, I guess it's my era,
not so much the era of the time I grew
up in an orphanage. I was brought to the US,
and those times were probably some of the most traumatic

(34:35):
times that I've had in my life, and I was
told on a constant basis, and I was shown that
I was lesser and that I was more oftentimes in
the way and or just for their pleasure. So for me,
I still cannot let that go. I have gone through
many years of therapy. You and I talked about this,

(34:55):
and one of the reasons I am a social worker
is because I was fighting against that on wanting to
fight for others who felt that way. We'll definitely be
getting into this all later, but my standard on online
dating has changed because of that as well. Since our
current president has been empowered, my understanding of allies has changed,
and that for me is significant others. So when I

(35:19):
have someone online tell me, yeah, I'm a feminist, but
I think this and this and this is too much,
or I think people of color are making too much
of this who want to call themselves liberal, then you
start realizing you're not an ally and honestly that goes
for female friends as well. But on my basis of

(35:41):
trying to figure out do I want to date you,
I don't think I trust you. We're want to go
on and move because I already have issues. We don't
want to add the political factor into this as well.
We have a lot, a lot more to dive into here,
but first we have a quick break for word from
our sponsor and we're back. Thank you sponsor. Alright, So

(36:09):
how do you succeed? Then? The Dictionary defined success as
one the favorable or prosperous termination of attempts or endeavors,
the accomplishment of one's goals. And when I read that definition,
my mind kind of went into like panic mode trying
to think of what what goal? Do I have? Goals?

(36:31):
What goals? And I found an old list of goals
I have from like college, and it's one. Number one
was don't waste any more time to exclamation points. Thank
you for that, all right? Um, to become famous? Three
visit every continent, four go to space, and five get

(36:53):
a book published. So yes, failure, Well you're famous to me.
Thank you because you're a part of this amazing crew
of people who talk a lot. Thank you I will
take that as a compliment. I'm just saying it is.
It is a couple of bent people know who you are.
I actually mentioned you this weekend at my other job.
They were like any from food stuff and I was like, yeah,

(37:17):
you love her. She's one of the best people, so
saying you're famous, thank you. I do like to think
I have um matured and that all of these goals
are very selfish goals. I think you should definitely go
to space though. Oh I mean, these are still goals,
but I've added more nuances, like helping people those kinds
of things. This was like in college, and it was

(37:37):
also my Google like task things, so who knows. I
probably just randomly put it's this thing I have where
like usually when I'm drunk, I just type something in
there to remind myself later. Right now at the top,
I love this because I think it's from Harry Potter.
It says disarm only. Oh think what Harry Potter says
when he teaching them during the Order to Phoenix. I'm

(37:58):
really sad I know that reference. Oh I'm very happy
you know that reference well for me as a model minority.
And please know I'm putting that in quotes in with
a scowl face. Um. My goal has always been to
stay under the radar and survived. I think that's what
I learned growing up being the minority of a small town,

(38:19):
was to fit in, to blend in, and to not
be noticed. I'm listening kind to stay under the radar
as a late thirty year old, because I'm fairly prone
to get angry, especially at this day and age and
all the new political drama and all of the federal shutdown.
And I'm very grateful that I'm a state employee and

(38:40):
not a federal employee, because please know, I would definitely
live here. I would find a bed, to use that
cook machine, and I would never leave because this girl
has to eat somehow, and all I have at my
house it's doc trees you'd be living off of. We
have a lot of sparkling water Eminem's and a random

(39:01):
assortment of protein bars. That's such a good dream. You're
talking about that amazing, Please no, I just like dinner Eminem's.
Watch protein bar dinner eminem. You should add that to
your your list of goals. That's gonna be my list
of goals to live all of eminems for the rest
of my life. There you go in cheese. But I
can say thus far I have survived. But other than that,

(39:25):
I try to keep my goals to a minimum. The
biggest thing for me is to be better than the
year before, just as generic as that, because that's hopefully
something that I could attain or at least try for, right. Um.
The second definition of success in the dictionary is um
the attainment of wealth, position, honors, or the like, Oh

(39:49):
I felt, I felt that I'm poor. I don't say
I have success succeeded in the I have made my
way into your life, and slowly claiming he was one
of my best these I'm sneaking in. Y'all don't know
this yet, but I'm staying. Y'all it's happening. It's enough,
someone's gonna believe me. I like how you're like saying
your master planned on air. I just want this to

(40:12):
be recorded on the first one, so on the last one,
be like, Yeah, I still live in the corner over here,
don't worry about it. I'm just I'm just chilling in
the corner on the troll that just eats everybody's leftovers.
Oh don't. I'm telling you, I have a goal Oh
my gosh, I would be like such a fun some
kind of ghosts. We would think you were in office ghost.
You know what. I dressed up as the Grudge a

(40:33):
while ago. That's what I'll do for the rest of
the time. After we've finished. I'll just sit in the
corner like the Grudge and just start screaming at people,
staring at people. I love it, and and we never
address it. No, like you just have to go pass.
Like I'm going to be the secret ghosts like on
the House, the Haunting of Hill House. You know they

(40:54):
had all those secret ghosts in there. I'm going to
be that you can just find with me randomly, man tink, somebody,
this is our office is strange enough that you might
be able to like spend that and get paid for it.
So I am give me money. I do want to
say that, Um, perhaps we haven't failed, but we're failing.

(41:15):
It's an ongoing process of failure. Um. And if we're
talking about failure, the definition is helpfully the first one
is lack of success, and then the second one is
a non performance of something do required or expected. And
to quote Serenity, Um, the bill comes due and we

(41:37):
have not paid up on Society's Bill, and this quote
I read from a love story by Samantha Hunt resonated
with me so much when I read it, Um, the
suffering of the boys, the shame and mutual responsibility for
blue balls, the suffering of the boys, poor boys. I thought,
poor boys, as if I were being called upon to

(41:57):
serve in a war effort. The war against boy is
not getting any And I felt that so much when
I read it. Um, I have felt so guilty for
not wanting to have sex, for not giving men what
they wanted, and I never never really gave much care
of thought to what I wanted. And I think that's
an absurd idea that we have to give in just

(42:18):
to get past not hurting someone's feelings. That's that's the
things that we are taught. As a Southerner. I am
taught to please others. We are taught to hug people goodbye.
We were taught to kiss, give you know, give everybody
a chance, all of these things. And we have to
ignore our own instincts to make other people feel comfortable.

(42:38):
And we can say that for many of things, but
I have definitely been in a situation with men where
I'm thinking, I'm not interested anymore, but I just want
to get it over with and it shouldn't have to
be that way. You and I talked about the whole
lost the children, the lost children of Rockdale, which is
the whole thing about all of these teenagers getting syphilism.

(43:01):
And I remember watching that video as a social when
in my social work class, and several of the girls
just came on to talk about how they when they
gave up their virginity at fourteen, they did it because
they didn't know they could say no, and they try
to keep it as oh no, but I wanted to.
But then you talked to them more and they were
just sad and sadder and sadder, but they were told

(43:22):
this is what they're supposed to do. And it's just
a sad thing in general that we are just now,
not just now, but we are finally bold enough to
talk about the fact that you have a right, you
have a choice, and you have the right to enjoy it.
But that means on your terms and on your time. Yeah. Yeah,
that that was something else that I found really interesting

(43:44):
is this push to change how we talk about sex
ed as like don't get pregnant, don't get disease, but also, hey,
it should be a pleasurable, enjoyable thing. So we have
a long way to go, and you touched on. There's
so many nuances to this conversation that I think get lost. Um.
One big one for me is um the escalation, wherein
somebody might be very aggressive flirting with you, and you

(44:08):
don't want the situation to escalate, so you kind of
laugh and you're like, oh no, I'm gonna you know,
and then people get mad at you for being a tease,
but you're trying to make the situation not worse. So
you don't really have a good option because I've done both.
I've done the like no and got me alled at,

(44:29):
and then I've done the like de escalating and got
ye all that and these are like shades and nuances
that I think we leave out a lot. And that's
why the conversation around azzans are um. People were like,
why didn't you just walk away? There's a lot more
to it. There's a lot at play. I think that's
where I guess lost because people wanted to eat women

(44:51):
were using or absolutely going after her because they're like,
this is not really rape, don't use this, don't compare
to this this and this, and essentially you want to
go back with no. This is a part of the
conversation we need to be having because this is still
a little fine line. She still can change her mind,
and she just gave in. Just giving in, it's not
necessarily consent, and we need to have that conversation. Do

(45:15):
I believe this could be held up in court? Not
necessarily And that's a whole different thing in itself, because
as a person who works with the government, I know
what it can take to actually get a case forward,
and it takes a lot and it's absurd how much
you have to do to prove that you've been violated.
But at the same time, these are the reasons that

(45:37):
people don't come forward, just the small instances of well,
I didn't fight him, I didn't physically push him, I
said no, but he kept going and I just finally
gave in. That's still considered a violation, and that's the
something that should be stated and should be told to
other women. You have been violated. I'm not trying to
tell you you're a victim, but you had the right

(45:58):
to say no, and for future refs, you have that
right to say no and to say this is not
what you want. And unfortunately, when you have to say
it was easier, just know it's not your fault either, right,
you are still a person who was taken advantage of. Yeah. Um.
And unfortunately in our society, I think that we're so

(46:19):
ready to punish women and forgive men. But this is
how a lot of sexual assault happens. There's a spectrum
like it is all part of this conversation, all right,
But back to success, to bring it all back throughout
our media over and over and over and over again,
we see success to find as achieving the nuclear, heteronormative

(46:43):
family unit with the house and the steady job. And
that is a narrow goal and a narrow range of experiences.
But that is where I would say our society has
set the bar for success as a human and there's
a lot of reasons for that that we could go into.
And going back to what I was saying at the beginning,
even as a kid, I didn't really want to get married,

(47:05):
but I figured I would be by twenty three, And
when that date came and passed, I sort of shrugged
it off and thought to myself, well, I can travel
more and then I'll get married and then thirty came,
and now, even though I've come to terms of the
fact that I don't want to get married and probably
never will, there's a part of me that thinks, what
if I changed my mind and it is too late,
you know, like growing up in a very religious household,

(47:26):
being married and having children was the purpose. I think
I said that earlier and in college I struggled with
my identity because I felt I was not living up
to the standards and the ideals of virtue or a
virtuous woman. Uh, someone who's subservient. And for me, I'm
not a subservient woman. Any person that you meet about me,

(47:47):
they know I'm ridiculous. No, I'm just clean that I'm
I'm very strong, I'm very independent. Um, I'm to a
point stubborn when it comes to what I feel is right.
I think marriage was not important me. For a while
I thought that's what was supposed to be. And of
course there's a bit of a romantic in me and
that things. Of course, I want to be with someone
forever never, never, never. But then the other part of

(48:09):
like forever and forever thank you that one. But for me,
family was not an overall goal. I think as I
started getting older and older. To me, being a survivor,
I felt this need to uphold others. So to me,
it's a survivor's guilt, and I felt like I owed

(48:32):
my life to service and advocating for others, which doesn't
necessarily mess with this whole religious overtone, this whole household overtone,
and I felt guilty and not being subservient. I felt
guilty for being strong and independent. I felt guilty that
I was parentified at a very young age, so I

(48:53):
acted like an adult when I was aged seven because
I was always taking care of myself, and for me,
growing up into an environment that was the opposite of
was a shock and I still struggle with it today.
Like my identity has been shuffled in all kinds of
ways between my ethnicity, between my family background, between my

(49:17):
work background. It doesn't always mesh, and I think it's
hard for me to know that I am the strong
leader when I'm being told on a constant basis that
if I'm stronger than a meal, then I'm failing because
I'm emasculating him. But that's on me as well, which

(49:38):
is a whole other part. It's kind of like, wait, me,
being a strong person makes you less of a man.
I don't understand, right, Yeah, And it is worth saying
here that even though you and I are not on
our way to the family and the house and all

(49:58):
that stuff, it's not mutually exclusive to be strong and
independent and have those things and want of those things.
Absolutely nothing wrong with it, um, But it's I think
it's just like societally, that's who were appointing that being
mean for us, specifically when I have a conversation with
people around my age and the same circumstances that we
are making less than a certain amount of money, not

(50:20):
having property on our own, all of these those things,
we feel like we haven't met the expectations that everybody
else has set for themselves and or society has said.
And if you have those, a's fantastic. I've met many
of people, and I have many friends who are married
with children, well respect and love, and I think they
are strong, fearless leaders to like, I don't understand how

(50:44):
you do this, how you can afford this? Yeah, um.
And there is something that's I watched My Friends with Kids,
and something so beautiful about it and the story you
see like in TV and movies. It is romantic. It
is the idea that there is this love and it's
so pure. And I know that it's that that's Hollywood version,

(51:05):
but I understand, like it's not like I'm watching. I
get it. It's just not me, right, it's not for me.
Sometimes I wish it was. Well, I think we've come
to our final question. But first we've come to one
more quick break for a word from our sponsor, m

(51:31):
and we're back, Thank you sponsor. Okay, So, Samantha, Yes,
are we failures? Oh that's a big question. I've often
talked with people in similar circumstances who feel that due
to not being able to hit all live points, they
feel like they have failed. Let's say, couples who don't
have children, or adults who don't have homes, or couples

(51:55):
who aren't actually married but together, or for some women
and who do want children but are not able to
they feel like they felt. I think we associate failure
with missing out. A lot of times it's the severe
case of fomo. I had a friend who married because

(52:18):
she felt like that's what she was supposed to do,
literally saying, I remember asking her, so you're in love
with this guy. How's everything going, she goes. That was
a response, and I said, wait, wait, wait, do you
want to marry him? She goes, I guess, and which
one was like, wait, are you sure? She goes, Well,
aren't I supposed to? This is what's supposed to happen.

(52:39):
I'm supposed to get married. And then, of course a
few years later they are now divorced, never being in
love myself and not having a relationship again lasting longer
than nine months. I don't actually know what that looks like,
so I can't criticize for that, but I know for me,
I would rather be alone and happy than force into

(53:01):
a relationship because I felt like I had to. Because
I'm really good about making myself sad or self anxious
or phil lonely. I don't need someone else to add
to that. Yeah. Yeah, I used to have a fear
of like missing out on my my there you go on,

(53:25):
like my only chance to get married, and what if
I never meet the person? And now I have a
bigger fear of just settling with someone. Yeah, that's actually
become a thing for me as well. That Okay, do
I just say to the next guy, you'll do Yeah,
we'll try to work this out. See how long we
can go. Yeah, I'm kind of worried I'll get worn down. Um,
I'm wearing you down? Are we going to get married?

(53:47):
Is that what this is? If it's easier for me
to get paid? Yeah? Girl, Okay, that got awkward. Well
I'm blushing. I know, especially for the women in my life,
no matter what stage they're in, they all feel like
they failed. To me. I can look at someone who
I consider extremely successful and she will tell me she
feels like a failure. And I think a part of

(54:08):
that is we place these really high expectations on ourselves
and are sometimes reminded of those expectations by family members
during holidays. But that image of success we've been talking about,
that's not for everybody, and in fact, it leaves a
lot of people out. So I guess for me, I
don't necessarily consider myself a failure, even if I feel

(54:31):
like one sometimes. But I do think that society considers me,
if not a failure, then incomplete, Like they look at
me a sword. Yeah what is this woman doing alone
at this food event? Um? I have gotten my family
to sort of accept it. Annie is going to be Annie. Um,
they wish I would settle down, but they have stopped

(54:53):
telling me that I will take it, and they don't
consider me a failure. I know that, um, but they
do want me to want the things they want for me.
You know, I could say the same for my family
at this point. Like I said, my siblings have all
been divorced and gone through some horrendous things. So my
mother has backed off greatly and trying to get me

(55:14):
to marry someone, just to marry someone. There is some
mentions from my father about wanting to have brown children,
which is super fun and awkward as it is. But
outside of that, they've realized I'm fairly content and of
all of the children, I'm pretty stable. So they've started
to leave me alone more and more. I have noticed
though that Christmas times, I'm getting less presents, but my

(55:37):
dog is getting all the present. I did see proof
of this. Yeah, like this this year, I looked around.
There's this giant presence. I'm getting really excited. Maybe I'm
getting a nice jacket. No, no, no, no, they were
for my dog. Yeah, Peaches really made out. Peaches is
the grandkid. Yeah. I think they're like, we're giving up
on the fact that you're having a spouse or a child,

(55:58):
so we're going to give all of our effect into
your dog. You just go to mcfuzzin. Yeah, that's my
dog's name. Over the recent New Year's you and I
plodded ways to stay indoors on New Year's glorious actually
was for me. I love a good party, but New
Year's parties, mine in particular, are notoriously awful. I do

(56:19):
love looking back at the pictures of like the beginning
of the night and thinking, oh, you poor thing. You
don't know what's coming for you. Later. Um so I was.
I was invited to a couple but it was raining
and I really just wanted to go home. So I
stayed in and ordered mac and cheese twice after already
eating some at a restaurant mirror hours earlier. I was there.
You ate all of that. It was very proud of you.

(56:41):
You came in going I just want mac and cheese,
and I said, we can make this happen, and you
sure did. Oh I did. I I do apologize if
you happen to be a listening nice delivery people, I
am so sorry that I made you work on New Year's.
But I was very, very intoxicated. I don't really want
on mac and cheese. I did, and the first container
was very small, so I knew immediately that I was

(57:03):
going to have to get more um. And I watched
Harry Potter while dressed as Spider Man and reading a
Harry Potter fan fiction, which I some of you probably
saw the video, and I did that for you. We
made a promise to each other that we went at
midnight take a sector and with serious thing. And I

(57:24):
knew immediately because we were talking about how you would
never dress up, and I was like, Oh, I've got
all this stuff, don't you worry. That's what I was like, Oh, wait,
you're texting all your best days. Am I one of
the best days? Yeah, I planned his work. You're gonna
be my best friend. That one didn't even make sense.
I was, yeah, I was texting all of my best
friends while watching Harry Potter. So we started watching them

(57:45):
at the same time. And then what else were you
doing at the same time? I was reading that fan
fiction you had written. I had written and I discovered
on my old laptop, and I am embarrassed to say,
but it bought me to tears. My own nerniction you
were texting me how about how trash it was? It
was like, why Harry, Why? Why did I put him
through that? Well, I also was watching Harry Potter that

(58:07):
was This is kind of a tradition for me during
the holidays to watch all the Harry Potter and some
other really bad Christmas movies while you were sleeping watch that.
But this time it was Harry Potter. And because we
had said we were going to send the pictures, I
put on my Panda onesie and I took that picture.
And then I also had a picture of me kissing
my dog because I'm lonely. But he started the New

(58:32):
New Year off. But she was rolling her eyes at
me in the picture, and we talked about how my
dog is so judgmental. I mean, I know I've mentioned
this a few times, but y'all, m I talked the
worst and the best. Yeah, she's both in one package.
So we we tell that story to show. I think

(58:53):
maybe we're succeeded. I think that was a completely successful year.
I did not fall I did not have a huge hangover.
I did not do something dumb, and I didn't have
do anything that anybody can blackmail me with. Yeah, I mean,
my Spider Man video lives on, but I don't care.
It was you. It was very me. I Actually you

(59:14):
couldn't see it in the picture, but I was wearing
a griffin door tie. I saw it. I noticed it. Okay,
Oh man, I just like totally. That was a real reaction.
All right, Well, listeners, you now know a lot more
about it than you possibly ever wanted. But you're welcome. Yeah,
thank you so much for joining us. Samantha, as I

(59:34):
said before, I'm not leaving. I live here now, y'all. Okay, Well,
if I if I start noticing weird things, I'll know
it's not a ghost. It's just Samantha. I'm a ghost.
But I'll let the rumor spread. I won't actually grudge
ghosts in the background. Yes, it's me. Oh, very good,
that was very good. One thing before we close out,

(59:57):
as I said at the top, one of our goals
is to be really eight with all of you about
what we're doing to deal with these things, or maybe
how we're not handling things very well. Um, because I
remember when I was younger seeing people and wondering how
in the world they were handling themselves so well, And
in my eyes, they were such a success, and it
really hindered my healing, and that was on me. I

(01:00:18):
was comparing myself to people. That's always dangerous, um, and
this was just another way that I thought I was failing.
But Samantha and I are practicing self care. We're keeping
an eye out for each other. Um, We're keeping our
producer in the loops. Um. And uh, just remember you
rarely ever see people in their darkest moments. I mean you,

(01:00:41):
you barely even see them in their dark moments are
their boring moments, so they're just like not okay moments. Um.
So please please please take care of yourselves and know
that we are doing the same. At the end of
these episodes, we're going to do a check in and
share what we're doing to take care of ourselves and
each other. As a social worker, one of my biggest
position is to make sure you have resources that hand

(01:01:02):
to be able to care for yourself. And if you
need to help in finding these resources, please let us know.
We want to make sure you have access to whatever
you are you need are you able to handle to
move forward in the healing? For me, I told any
at the very beginning, and I think I told you
that's like three different times. I want to make sure
you're okay. I want to make sure that this is

(01:01:24):
not costing you your emotions, your heart, your your physical
and mental health, because you should not sacrifice yourself for
the sake of a for the sake of just doing
a story, because this is more than that. We want
to be vulnerable. We want to make sure people understand
what's happening, and we are trying to open up to
make sure you see this perspective and what it looks

(01:01:47):
like to walk in these hard times. But at the
same time, you need to know your limits, which we
said at the very beginning, and you need to be
able to take a break, and you have that control
and you need to take on that control. Shoot. One
of the things that I do to take care of
myself at the end of every day is watch ridiculous sitcoms,
Box and reg Is my Faith, I'm not gonna lie,

(01:02:09):
And then also watch a lot of dog videos. So
just to put this out there, if you need really
cute dog pictures, my dog the drug Peaches Gocha. Mcfuszin
has some really great pictures. I will be glad for that.
To anyone. She absolutely will that it's not a bluff.
I love the dog pictures. Please reach out to us
if you want any of those resources. Need any of

(01:02:30):
those resources, will be happy to put you in touch. UM.
In the meantime, you can email us at mom Stuff
at house to folks dot com, and you can find
us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast and on Instagram
at Stuff I've Never Told you. Thank you again, Samantha
for being with us on this journey. Thank you so
much for letting me be part of this. I'm never leaving.

(01:02:51):
I'm starting to get that thought. UM. Thanks as always
to a producer Andrew Howard, and thanks to you for
listening to pas go to pay for Me