July 16, 2025 • 36 mins
Emily Ladau's award-winning book Demystifying Disability: What to Know, What to Say, and How to be an Ally breaks down terminology, history and allyship around disability.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and kind Stuff Will
Never Told You production of Virheart Radio forwer Today's book Club.
We're talking about Emily Ladoo's award winning twenty twenty one
novel Demystifying Disability, What to Know, what to Say, and
(00:27):
How to be an Ally. This is a practical, approachable
book filled with quotes from people with all kinds of disabilities,
that delves into some basics of talking about disability and
actionable steps to improve these discussions or just your interactions
with people. It also hammers home the point that, like
(00:48):
any community, disabled people are not a monolith and are
individuals with preferences when it comes to things like terminology.
It's a book that doesn't fall to you for your
past mistakes, but is asking you to do better and
giving you the tools to do so.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Not only are.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
There breakdowns of definitions and schools of thought, but also
a history, a look into all the ways ableism can manifest,
media representations of disability, and ways to be a better
ally both outside of and within the disabled community. It
tackles complex issues in a way that is easy to digest,
shines a light on nuances and differences of thought, and
(01:30):
overall just packs so much in despite its short length.
Lado is also clear this is a starting point and
gives a lot of references or things to follow up
on throughout. I wish I had read it earlier, honestly.
Here is a quote from the author about the author
(01:51):
A little about me. I have multiple disabilities, including a
physical disability, a hearing disability, and mental health disabilities. I
use a wheelchair because I was born with larcen Syndrome LS,
a joint and muscle disorder that I inherited from my
mom Ellen, who also has it. You might think that
are both having LS is a tragedy, but we don't.
(02:13):
And my humble opinion, it's pretty fantastic to have somebody
built into my life who just gets me. And I
would say, just go read it, like we're going to
go over some of it in here, But as always
with these book clubs, we want you to check it
out yourself, support authors yourself.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
But I also think it was it's just a really.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Useful breakdown of a lot of the the ways people
run into being too afraid to talk about disability or
not knowing quite what to say.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yes, so go read it, read it.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
It's not long.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
It's available in every as it actually have found it
in several libraries too.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yes, yeah, and it's got cute illustrations.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Great illustrations. Cover is wonderful mm hmmy, very approachable.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
You should definitely read it.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yes, it's essentially broken into like topics such as terminology
or allyship or media.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
But it really does.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
It packs so much in Like when I left after
I finished, I was, oh, my gosh, I'll absorbed so
much information.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
This was great. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, so that's kind of the layout of it. But
we will go over as we like to do in
our book club episodes and themes. One I would say
is that it's just very informative. It's like around the
basics of talking about disability or just knowing about disability.
So here's a quote one billion more than one billion
(03:59):
people around the world are disabled in fact, or the
world's largest minority. And that comes constantly into play with,
as we said, a community not being a monolith and
people having these differing ideas about how we should talk
about things in the language we should use, and that's
(04:20):
all really healthy discourse. But it's a huge it's a
huge community, and as we've discussed before, you can also
be temporarily able person. You might like break your leg
and then suddenly you'll you'll be thinking about ramps or
stairs or something like that.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
Right, there's definitely a lot to that. And then also
that conversation, like even with aging, that that becomes a
conversation about like your abilities and you're no longer able body,
quote unquote. And I think this is such a timely
of course, this month is very very important, why we
need to talk about it, and we should really highlight
more information about it. But like especially in conversations with
(05:00):
the recent bills passed again it's twenty twenty five, and
they co opting the word able body, which.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Really pisses me off to no wind.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Really forgetting the years and years of work that disabled
activists have been doing and talking about what able body
meanings versus what it isn't and how it's being weaponized
and why this could be a problem, especially when we
talk about working and having equal rights all these things
as well as benefits, and why that is important for
the disabled community.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
And that it should be a human right. And this.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Bill has gone backwards. So I would really love to
hear Emily's take, because in this book. I feel like
she packs a lot in we talk about it. It
feels almost overwhelming because you do hear the back and
forth of like, Okay, so I'm not supposed to do this,
but I'm supposed to do this, but I did do this,
but this could be wrong to this person, which she
reiterates oftentimes that this is a personal preference in what
she's speaking, specifically the dos and don'ts, But like everybody's
(05:59):
an individual, and if you're truly in tune with that
conversation and in that alignment, just like you would ask
anybody pronouns wise, like all of that, that we should
ask their preference in how things are spoken, because different
people have different takes, which takes lot she talks a
lot about, So I know we're going to get into
two ideals I guess labels that I didn't really think
(06:22):
much of until she did it. But I think, yeah,
all of this is so very important, very but still introductory,
and I think that has a lot to do with
our ableism that is so ingrained in us, just as
much just misogyny is, like we talk a lot about,
like the internalized misogyny that was hard to let go of,
but we have to talk about the internalized ableism that
(06:44):
we don't think about and oftentimes we excuse us. Eh,
they understand, but that's a problem that shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Be the fact.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
But I know I'm going too far into this. There's
a lot there was, Like there's this back and forth
of every chapter, every page, saying something and then like
kind of reiterate another point. And you're trying to figure
out for yourself where you think you aligned, which is
a little bit selfish, but at the same time trying
to become.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Educated or more educated even before.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Because some of these things that we've talked about before,
we've talked about activists and their preferences and their understanding,
but like in understanding that we still have to take
apart some of the others such as like an infantilizing
such as the fear of doing something wrong. You know,
all these things which holds you back into not want
to interact with people.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
With disabilities, and it's just a it's overwhelming.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
But Sheily does a great job in trying to break
those down.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
She does, and she's very it's it's when the book
opens she says, you know, I wish I didn't have
to do this but we've got to do it because
nobody's talking about it. And these are these basics. But
she's also very I don't think non judgmental. I don't
I don't know what the right word is. But she's like,
(08:00):
I want you to learn more. I'm not trying to
shame you. I'm trying to say, we've all been taught
disablest ideal, all these ableist ideals, and I want us
all to become move on from that how we can.
So she constantly saying like there's not going to be
a test at the end.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, like it's going to be. We're gonna get through this.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
And also she allows for mistakes, yes, And just in
the same conversation we had with Joey when we talk
about like pronouns and understanding that you know, gender maybe
not as it seems, especially for specific people, and then
like trying to come into that and understanding that and
being a person who is learning, uh, these new languages
(08:45):
that that they've always existed, but previously we had a
different mindset and understanding about it. And as we learn
more and more and understanding that we are celebrating things
and therefore in celebration we also have to acknowledge where
this uh, where the knowledge is coming from, acknowledge the
knowledge in saying like I think we have oftentimes here
(09:07):
when people like say things like I don't like this,
I don't want this. This is offensive, and people are like, well,
if you're so mad about it, then do something about it,
and they have. Emily has like, I think that's the
kind of thing about The bigger question is before, before now,
we wouldn't even allow that, we wouldn't even hate that
as a as a knowledge, as information, as facts that
(09:32):
we need to understand. So there's so much to that
that she gives us. And in this I think she's
very understanding that it's still a stepping stone to unlearned
something is just as difficult to learn something. But we
all need to understand in this, in this pathways that
we're going to be wrong, acknowledge those wrongs, apologize honestly,
(09:57):
and then learn and grow with it. And that's that
her part that she's trying to say. I think in
this level of like, yeah, when you're not in this.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
World, it's it's something that you have to learn.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Yes, And she's very open about instances in which she
has made mistakes.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
So She's also she makes clear.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
That she wants this to be an accessible book in
terms of it is let's just start.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
At one oh one and and.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Writes it very clearly and is not testing you, but
it's just giving you this tool, but like honestly giving
these tools because I remember you and I have had
discussions about we were worried about using the wrong the
wrong terminology. We just and I remember lamenting to Eves
(10:57):
once this isn't what we do. But I remember I
re lamenting to Eaves once that I felt like nobody
talks about things they think are too tough to talk about.
And I think disability falls in that for a lot
of people, because they're so we've been so indoctrinated with
this idea that you don't talk about.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
It right, that you silence it, and it's an impolite, yes,
to even acknowledge it. M She even talks about the
historical context of having some terms that really go back
to using them as entertainment only and if not to
be silenced and put into the like to the darkness,
(11:37):
essentially like put away where you couldn't find that. And
we know that's been a historical thing all over the world.
In the fact that still kind of happens. Of course,
that goes along also with eugenics.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
She does touch onto that, if I remember correctly.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
Yes, But of course that's not the entire book, although
that's a clear reminder of why these conversations are so
important that we don't do that again, don't.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
We don't fall back to that oral less see when
it's coming.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yes, she does talk about she has a history section,
which she is very clear is very abbreviated and just
a jumping, jumping off point. But she does talk about
eugenics and the history of that.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
She also does talk about.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Disability and intersectionality and privilege a lot because she's a
white woman in a wheelchair, so she just talks about
the differences and how she's treated versus other people. But
she also talks about judgment within communities. Again, this is
the largest minority community in the world, so can't really
(12:47):
escape it. I could talk about that in the LGBTQ
plus community ad nauseum. But I think people sometimes if
they're outside of the community, assume like everybody agrees.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
But that's not the case.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
But yes, she also talks about ableism, right, Yes.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
And we got a quote here and it says, but
ableism takes a heavy toll. Too many disabled people have
been led to believe that our very lives are not
worth living. And if there's one thing, just one that
you take away from reading this book, let it be this.
That line of thinking is unequivocally untrue. Disabled lives are
worth living.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Oh yeah, she.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Was talking about some tropes and any and I've actually
talked about this specific movie before and I refuse to
watch anything like this because it is there's something too
that's like, uh, why, I've seen many of people who
are entirely happy and are fine, I think this and
(14:03):
the same trumpe as like it's the end of their lives.
Tips like they're angry, they're hostile, they're all bitter about.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
The world, and that's not true.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
It's the same thing with like Forrest Gump, Like I say,
he eventually does find his joy, but this like trope
of like I'm angry because of this, this and this.
I'm like he probably has more ptsded and anger. But
you know whatever, uh, and and understanding. There's just so
many people who would be seemingly able body who are
(14:34):
going through tough times and probably are are talking about
how they feel like life is not worth living because
of a like sepal wisom. But then that's the same thing.
It's kind of like that level of like the reasons
are not because of this, The reason is because of this,
like you know, like the differing it doesn't matter necessarily,
and the way that we have to be like, oh no,
(14:55):
but you have to be so unhappy because you can't
do the A, B or C, which is so it
is truly offensive.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, and we've talked about a lot of those. We'll
come back to some of those tropes later. But it's
sort of the like overcoming disability or fixing disability or
praying over disability.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
But she told me like she talks about being prayed over.
I was like, no, he's a kid too.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
But we are going to talk about some of the
because one of the points she also makes is that
you know, if we had if things were accessible, if
the government was providing for us, like then we wouldn't
have perhaps so much anchor, Like it's not coming from
(15:46):
the disability necessarily, it's coming from the lack of support.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Lack of support like, oh, we're going to talk so
much more about that. But I also think about the
fact that she talks about her dad, you know, and
finding that No.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
He's a normal person who loves his family.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
I don't understand why there's pity on him or like
extra good for you, like extra awards or for him
for me. And it's just there's just this level in
that conversation too. But she talks about but what about
the fact that you know, my mom and I are able
to bring this type of joy in and he loves
like we love him as which he loves us, and
(16:25):
we are an equal relationships, Like this is a necessary
tone to take and when it's just like, no, but
this is a marriage for family, I don't understand why
you're doing this in that level of well, like we
are happy, we are a happy family, and we have
just just the same stress, Like we have just as
much stress as the next family.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Yeah, you don't really need to comment on you honestly.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
So that does bring us to the terminology, which I
really appreciate it because we have gone back and forth. Yes,
so here's a quote. There's one thing we should address
right away. We need to stop using the word handicapped.
It's an outdated term that's fallen out of favor with
most disabled people, and quite frankly, it makes my skin crawl.
(17:13):
Occasionally I'll find myself saying things such as handicapped bathroom
or a handicapped entrance because old terminology dies hard, but
there are better words to use. Talking about a person
disability is better than handicapped, pointing out a parking spot
with the blue lines it's accessible parking. And then she
also breaks down. So this is what we really have been, like,
(17:35):
what should we do? Person first language versus identity first language?
So person first language would be something like person with
a disability to stress that they are a person who.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Happens to have a disability.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Identity first language would be something like disabled person, where
the disability is a part of their identity. People have preferences,
but neither are wrong, And a running scene throughout this
book is just politely ask if you're not sure or
you know, perhaps they might correct you, and don't be
defensive about it.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Right, and that, yeah, that was that bigger point.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
It's like, if they correct you, if they care enough
about you and care enough to have a relationship with
you to be like, eh, I would rather you say
this about me, then you listen to that. My initial
reaction to any of body that corrects me, I freak out,
thinking that I've done the worst thing ever, and then.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I spiral for days and just want to rod away.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
But she even makes a point about that, and she
was like, don't make this about yourself, and I was.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Like, well, damn, so there there's a lot to that.
But really that's because.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
She was just like, it's just it's and it's fine,
Like it means just as much if you listen and
respect that and then learn from that from then on.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
And I think that's back and forth.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Is like as a show that we do, we talk
and make this about us, but trying to get it correctly.
This is why I think like things like the activists
around the world, when I talk about them, I take
what they label they have labeled. Often I will quote
them in order to get it correctly. Of course, people
are like, why do you have them on the show?
We would love to, We would love to for the
(19:17):
short segments, it's not worth their time. But in the
biggest simms, we do love those types of interactions. Sometimes
we just have too much on our plate. All of
that to say, having that being able to see that
and if you don't have that, to ask that or
to say I apologize without pronunciations. We talk about this,
we're we try to do it. Sometimes we just can't
(19:39):
get the correct ones. And unfortunately we are single person
or two peoples, and we do best with what we have.
But I absolutely appreciate when people do correct us and
doing this correctly. I have been saying handicap still because
that is the old language, but now, not knowing this,
I know it's gonna take me a minute. That's going
(20:00):
to take me a minute, and you probably have to
correct me in some things because I'll be like, okay, accessible,
that makes sense. But late we don't know, and later
in life, like ten years from now, that might change
through it and that's okay.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
We just roll with the times.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah, this is what we wrote about in the preface
to our book.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
By the way, we were like, right now, this is
how people are talking about these things, but it could change,
and that's not that right.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Other things that.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Happened that the author talks about, and these chapters are
hitting disabled people against each other, so low functioning versus
high functioning when it comes to ability, and all of
that being kind of set to the standard of normal right,
which what is that right? A parent versus not a parent,
(20:53):
which is visible versus invisible. So some people have disabilities
that you can't see on first glance or something, but
pittying that against each other. And then there's medical model
versus social model. So here's a quote. The social model
emerged as a response to the incomplete perspective of the
(21:15):
medical model. According to the social model, people are disabled
not by medical conditions, but by environments, attitudes, and systems
that create barriers. As an example, through the lens of
the social model, I can attribute my status as disabled
to an environment that isn't wheelchair accessible, rather than my
medical diagnosis. So this is sort of like if everywhere
(21:37):
was accessible, then.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
I wouldn't have a disability because I.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Could get anywhere, you know what I mean. So I
thought that was a really interesting debate that people have.
And then there's also common judgments or misconceptions. So here
is one of I think my favorite quotes. It's important
(22:04):
to remember that if you've met one disabled person, you've
met one disabled person, and if you have a disability,
then the only disability experience you're an expert on is
your own. Yeah, I think that's good to keep in mind.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Right, and also even with someone else that has made
a similar diagnosis, that's different. Your persons and your treatments
are going to be completely different m a lot of
the times. So you can't put that onto that person
tell them they're doing something wrong.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah. Yeah, And that's she.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Like we said, she has a lot of quotes from
other people with disabilities throughout the book, and she'll say
sometimes like I disagree with that, but I get where
they're coming from, and I think that that's important to
be like, Okay, well that's your life, and I respect
that decision. And that's not how I feel, but I
respect that message. It's not hurting me. Also, it does
(23:16):
delve into, yes, using disability as an insult, and this
was something that I knew.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
It didn't surprise me, but I was like.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
So many of the stories she shared.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
What what people making these unsolicited like jokes, uh, praying
a child, praying over her, unwarranted, unasked leaning on someone's
wheelchair without asking, not knowing them, which I hadn't thought
about how invasive that was until I read this, and
(23:54):
I was like, yeah, that's real.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
That's such an odd thing because that's someone's I mean,
for her, that's how she moves, that's a part of her.
But for me, in like before I read that, I
was like, oh, absolutely, which I should have thought of
it that way. But in my head, it's also their property.
They pay for this, you know, like this is costly equipment.
I like, I understand that. Why would you like it
(24:19):
just doesn't seem and also you who don't know how
stable it is, how it functions, there may be this
like type of manufactures, you know, like you never know
because people have to do with what they have. Unfortunately,
because this country is when it comes to again disability
rights and providing the right stuff and equipment and oftentimes
we'll give you with the most minimal thing and also
(24:41):
like allowing for abilities and so if you know, you
don't know, you don't know what this is. So to me,
I'm like, what even in like a hospital, when they
have the ones that are like kind of more accessible
for uh, the the actual hospital to use themselves for
different patients, I would not touch those. Yeah, So that
(25:03):
just baffled me in first place.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
I was like the audacity, Yeah, especially if because she
makes clear like you know you might have a friend
you're cool with and you've communicated with, Yeah, that's okay
for you to do, but like strangers.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
Yeah even still like you're like, m like the only
way is like if you had permission to be like
do you want me to push you here and there?
And then I put something like with yours something do
you mind holding this or do you mind.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Like as with anything like that?
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Just yeah, odd odd some of these things that she
was and of course like of course because people have
Noku and also the ableism and those really have this
like level of like yeah, this is part of my
you're in my space type of thing, or you're taking
like there's so much to this in this conversation again
of like entitlement, but like yeah, I just could not
(25:53):
imagine the leaning on somebody's wheelchair, which can and why why?
Speaker 3 (26:01):
And I thought they were there was this whole thing
where like.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
I don't know if you saw this debate, and I
know you shouldn't be part of the book club, But a
woman is at the Disney World saw a really cute
pink wheelchair and she decided she would to take it
because her daughter was tired. It was sitting in front
of somewhere and everybody was like, uh, you just took
someone's property, what the like? And it just sparked the
(26:27):
whole debate about like who has like who's this and
who's that? And they're like, no, Disney definitely has their own,
and I think they do have like their own, but
you also have to check them check them out.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Right, Yeah, I'm pretty sure you have to check them out.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
And so I'm like, why was still what the is someone?
If you you're just tired, why would you why would
you do this? Why would you do? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (26:53):
And also I get very frustrated with people who's part
too close to handicap spaces because they they may need
they need that extra space, you don't know why. Therefore
they are again the invisible disability stuff like.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
They may have why are you in anybody's business?
Speaker 1 (27:10):
People love policing that, and I'm not to say people
will abuse it, but when my dad had like a
cancer and he had the handicap, people would come up.
They'd be like, you look, fine, he's got he had
a cane and everything, but they would come up to
him and I'm like.
Speaker 6 (27:24):
Jez okay, again the audacity and does and then again
She's right, it doesn't make sense that this is people's
business or this is people's entitlement, and it's more likely
to happen to the people of the disability community like
it may yeah.
Speaker 7 (27:41):
Why yeah, And she does talk about I think a
lot of people are trying to prove that they're like cool,
like they're not.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
I see your disability and I can lean on your
wheelchair because I'm not freaked out by it. But the
truth is, you're not handling it well. You're making the
person uncomfortable and you're making it all about you. Like
I think it's kind of that vibe of like both
laziness or like not caring, but also trying to prove
(28:16):
oh but I'm an ally when you're really the opposite
doing the opposite thing.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
The same thing is again the prayer thing, like we
really are telling them there's something. You're telling them there's
something wrong with you. Like that's that's such a judgmental level.
Feel like, first of all, we all know how we
feel about this type of religion anyway, but the audacity
to do that as well as people who have the impoliteness,
(28:46):
I guess, the again, the able ism to think that
you have the right to speak.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
On someone else's disability once again, whether.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
It's to ask tons of questions that is not your
business or be like, oh, I'm trying to do the
whole I relate, I want so well. Once upon a
time I stuffed my toe type of thing. Type of
conversation you're like, this is this is odd, like in
order to like to be like, oh, I'm I'm I
understand you type of thing like.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
That's not empathy, that's that's odd.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
But as well as like the people who are like, yeah,
but I'm sure you'll be fixed soon. I know God,
God has plans to do this for you as if
again that like over patronizing of like pity and sympathy
when no one asked for that, and again a lot
of like the bigger conversation, it's like, no, you know you,
what you really need to be pity about is calling
(29:38):
your congressman and telling them this is like I need
medicaid without loss of this and having a job or
having an earning and all these things like this is
the wrong way to go. You are not looking at
what the big problem could be and solving for me
the person who is disabled, or for a disabled person
so it's such just a whole thing.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Mm hmm. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
And I think that's really the truth of it is
they don't want to solve the problem of it, and
they don't want to look at in the eye or
admit the truth of yes, we're not helping or supporting people.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
But also if somebody prays over like if you if
you're none of our listeners did this, but if you did,
that's something where you're essentially I would feel I'm not
saying everyone would feel this way, but then I would
feel like you're telling me God made me this way,
perhaps because I did something wrong, right, and now I'm I.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Must depend on prayers to fix what's wrong.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
That's is just a terrible thing to do somebody who's
just going about their day.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
Man.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
There's also this lettle like, yeah, do you really think
you're perfect just because you have this one ability that
I don't have?
Speaker 4 (30:53):
Baby, I think you need to look at me or
to start praying for yourself if you really want to
fix them.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I did.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I did a She made that point several times, like,
not everybody's the everybody has different abilities that they can
do the same thing, right, But yes, she also does
have a chapter on media, and I just want to
throw in here she was on Sesame Street. You can
still find the clip. I found it earlier today. She
was on there as a child. But she does get
(31:20):
through a lot of the tropes, some of which we discussed.
Inspiration porn might relate to what we've just been talking about.
It's kind of idea of able bodied people making themselves.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Feel better, right.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
I think she takes it a one step further saying
pity porn. And we've talked a lot about this, whether
it's like, oh, you're so inspirational, this, this is the
only thing you have, right, so brave, you're so brave
for existing type of conversation. Again, like, there's so much
(31:53):
to this layers because we talked about that with people
like who've gone through a hard life and as a
queer person, as a person of color, so like all
of these things that they really want the sob story
so they can feel good and think that they're saving you,
which is again, yeah about you, right, And then once
(32:13):
again thing yeah, they thank god I'm not them type
type of conversation, and you're like that, I'm so grateful.
I have so much to be thankful for. When you
look at that's such a like connoissance. That does make
me want to punch somebody.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Yeah, that's that's just And we didn't go into it,
but again go read the book. But in the Ableism
chapter that quote that we included, she was talking about how,
you know, we don't talk about it, but that is
every day, every time I go outside, every time I
interact with somebody, like it's just there. And how exhausting
(32:51):
that is. When she is living a very fulfilling life, right,
but she has this thing right where people see her
and just have to call it out.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
I don't believe her.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Yeah, oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
So the final chapter is about ally ship and we've
already talked about some of this, but she's really big
on you know, when in Dell ask politely whatever it is.
She even has a whole thing about like some people
prefer if you're in a wheelchair, they prefer the person
to kind of kneel down to their level, and some
people prefer that you don't. Right, So like when in
doubt ask politely, it is the person in questions decision,
(33:35):
but it's all about respect. So many of these things.
I was like, I'm not dismissing any of this at all,
but so many of the things with the stories of
the bad actors.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
I was like, do you not know how to treat
people right? People right? Don't do that right?
Speaker 4 (33:49):
And then then again like the asking part, there is
that part of like, no, but I'm not sure, so
I don't know how to handle this. It shouldn't discourage
you from getting to know people and getting to know
anybody who might have a disability. So in that conversation
she's I think she talks about she doesn't love people
crouching necessarily unless she knows them. She would rather use
stand from a distance so that she can have the
(34:10):
conversation without creating her neck or any of that such.
She's talked about people with like being deaf and how
they communicate and making sure we understand not to take
things or to like block things, just being really like
conscientious on how we communicate with that. But again she
understands that this can be difficult for people who may
not have interacted with different people of different abilities again
(34:33):
or disability, so all of those things like it is,
it can be confusing in some of the ways we talked.
She talks about people who are nonverbal having like the
writing pads and all of that. So it is interesting
in that she does take to account that different people
can have for my own, you know, our own invisible disability,
which is the anxiety that skyrockets that makes me shut down,
(34:57):
like what do we do? How do we do this
without having a full panic attack about it? Like having
that understanding and grace and that this could be is
it is. For some people it can be a little
bit hard to navigate, maybe because of their again, their
own disabilities and having to work through that as well.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Yes, yeah, and it ends on a very she has
a whole section on disability etiquette, but it does end
on a you know, we're all learning. This is an
ongoing process, keep learning, which I think is a great message.
So here is a final quote. This means that the
first step to being an ally is unlearning this misconception
(35:41):
and recognizing that disabled people aren't in need of saving.
We're in need of a world that recognizes our rights
and our humanity without question.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Yeah, m hm.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
It's it's a really good book, really really recommend it.
It's a it's a very and it's very infformative, but
it's short, you get a lot, you learn a lot
out of those pages, So yes, go check it out, listeners.
If you have any recommendations for other books that we
should do, you can email us at Hello at stuff
(36:17):
Wenever Told You dot com. You can find us on
Blue Sky at molst a podcast or on Instagram and
TikTok at stuff I Never Told You for us on YouTube,
and we have a book you can get wherever you
get your books. Thanks, It's always too our Super sixteena
our excepted produce and Maya and a contributor Joey. Thank
you and thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never
Told You to pot shoul my Heart Radio for more
podcast or my Heart Radio you can check out the
Heart Radio, Apple podcasts, or ever you listen to your
(36:38):
favorite shows
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and kind Stuff Will
Never Told You production of Virheart Radio forwer Today's book Club.
We're talking about Emily Ladoo's award winning twenty twenty one
novel Demystifying Disability, What to Know, what to Say, and
(00:27):
How to be an Ally. This is a practical, approachable
book filled with quotes from people with all kinds of disabilities,
that delves into some basics of talking about disability and
actionable steps to improve these discussions or just your interactions
with people. It also hammers home the point that, like
(00:48):
any community, disabled people are not a monolith and are
individuals with preferences when it comes to things like terminology.
It's a book that doesn't fall to you for your
past mistakes, but is asking you to do better and
giving you the tools to do so.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Not only are.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
There breakdowns of definitions and schools of thought, but also
a history, a look into all the ways ableism can manifest,
media representations of disability, and ways to be a better
ally both outside of and within the disabled community. It
tackles complex issues in a way that is easy to digest,
shines a light on nuances and differences of thought, and
(01:30):
overall just packs so much in despite its short length.
Lado is also clear this is a starting point and
gives a lot of references or things to follow up
on throughout. I wish I had read it earlier, honestly.
Here is a quote from the author about the author
(01:51):
A little about me. I have multiple disabilities, including a
physical disability, a hearing disability, and mental health disabilities. I
use a wheelchair because I was born with larcen Syndrome LS,
a joint and muscle disorder that I inherited from my
mom Ellen, who also has it. You might think that
are both having LS is a tragedy, but we don't.
(02:13):
And my humble opinion, it's pretty fantastic to have somebody
built into my life who just gets me. And I
would say, just go read it, like we're going to
go over some of it in here, But as always
with these book clubs, we want you to check it
out yourself, support authors yourself.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
But I also think it was it's just a really.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Useful breakdown of a lot of the the ways people
run into being too afraid to talk about disability or
not knowing quite what to say.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yes, so go read it, read it.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
It's not long.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
It's available in every as it actually have found it
in several libraries too.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yes, yeah, and it's got cute illustrations.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Great illustrations. Cover is wonderful mm hmmy, very approachable.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
You should definitely read it.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yes, it's essentially broken into like topics such as terminology
or allyship or media.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
But it really does.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
It packs so much in Like when I left after
I finished, I was, oh, my gosh, I'll absorbed so
much information.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
This was great. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, so that's kind of the layout of it. But
we will go over as we like to do in
our book club episodes and themes. One I would say
is that it's just very informative. It's like around the
basics of talking about disability or just knowing about disability.
So here's a quote one billion more than one billion
(03:59):
people around the world are disabled in fact, or the
world's largest minority. And that comes constantly into play with,
as we said, a community not being a monolith and
people having these differing ideas about how we should talk
about things in the language we should use, and that's
(04:20):
all really healthy discourse. But it's a huge it's a
huge community, and as we've discussed before, you can also
be temporarily able person. You might like break your leg
and then suddenly you'll you'll be thinking about ramps or
stairs or something like that.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
Right, there's definitely a lot to that. And then also
that conversation, like even with aging, that that becomes a
conversation about like your abilities and you're no longer able body,
quote unquote. And I think this is such a timely
of course, this month is very very important, why we
need to talk about it, and we should really highlight
more information about it. But like especially in conversations with
(05:00):
the recent bills passed again it's twenty twenty five, and
they co opting the word able body, which.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Really pisses me off to no wind.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Really forgetting the years and years of work that disabled
activists have been doing and talking about what able body
meanings versus what it isn't and how it's being weaponized
and why this could be a problem, especially when we
talk about working and having equal rights all these things
as well as benefits, and why that is important for
the disabled community.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
And that it should be a human right. And this.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Bill has gone backwards. So I would really love to
hear Emily's take, because in this book. I feel like
she packs a lot in we talk about it. It
feels almost overwhelming because you do hear the back and
forth of like, Okay, so I'm not supposed to do this,
but I'm supposed to do this, but I did do this,
but this could be wrong to this person, which she
reiterates oftentimes that this is a personal preference in what
she's speaking, specifically the dos and don'ts, But like everybody's
(05:59):
an individual, and if you're truly in tune with that
conversation and in that alignment, just like you would ask
anybody pronouns wise, like all of that, that we should
ask their preference in how things are spoken, because different
people have different takes, which takes lot she talks a
lot about, So I know we're going to get into
two ideals I guess labels that I didn't really think
(06:22):
much of until she did it. But I think, yeah,
all of this is so very important, very but still introductory,
and I think that has a lot to do with
our ableism that is so ingrained in us, just as
much just misogyny is, like we talk a lot about,
like the internalized misogyny that was hard to let go of,
but we have to talk about the internalized ableism that
(06:44):
we don't think about and oftentimes we excuse us. Eh,
they understand, but that's a problem that shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Be the fact.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
But I know I'm going too far into this. There's
a lot there was, Like there's this back and forth
of every chapter, every page, saying something and then like
kind of reiterate another point. And you're trying to figure
out for yourself where you think you aligned, which is
a little bit selfish, but at the same time trying
to become.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Educated or more educated even before.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Because some of these things that we've talked about before,
we've talked about activists and their preferences and their understanding,
but like in understanding that we still have to take
apart some of the others such as like an infantilizing
such as the fear of doing something wrong. You know,
all these things which holds you back into not want
to interact with people.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
With disabilities, and it's just a it's overwhelming.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
But Sheily does a great job in trying to break
those down.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
She does, and she's very it's it's when the book
opens she says, you know, I wish I didn't have
to do this but we've got to do it because
nobody's talking about it. And these are these basics. But
she's also very I don't think non judgmental. I don't
I don't know what the right word is. But she's like,
(08:00):
I want you to learn more. I'm not trying to
shame you. I'm trying to say, we've all been taught
disablest ideal, all these ableist ideals, and I want us
all to become move on from that how we can.
So she constantly saying like there's not going to be
a test at the end.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, like it's going to be. We're gonna get through this.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
And also she allows for mistakes, yes, And just in
the same conversation we had with Joey when we talk
about like pronouns and understanding that you know, gender maybe
not as it seems, especially for specific people, and then
like trying to come into that and understanding that and
being a person who is learning, uh, these new languages
(08:45):
that that they've always existed, but previously we had a
different mindset and understanding about it. And as we learn
more and more and understanding that we are celebrating things
and therefore in celebration we also have to acknowledge where
this uh, where the knowledge is coming from, acknowledge the
knowledge in saying like I think we have oftentimes here
(09:07):
when people like say things like I don't like this,
I don't want this. This is offensive, and people are like, well,
if you're so mad about it, then do something about it,
and they have. Emily has like, I think that's the
kind of thing about The bigger question is before, before now,
we wouldn't even allow that, we wouldn't even hate that
as a as a knowledge, as information, as facts that
(09:32):
we need to understand. So there's so much to that
that she gives us. And in this I think she's
very understanding that it's still a stepping stone to unlearned
something is just as difficult to learn something. But we
all need to understand in this, in this pathways that
we're going to be wrong, acknowledge those wrongs, apologize honestly,
(09:57):
and then learn and grow with it. And that's that
her part that she's trying to say. I think in
this level of like, yeah, when you're not in this.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
World, it's it's something that you have to learn.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Yes, And she's very open about instances in which she
has made mistakes.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
So She's also she makes clear.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
That she wants this to be an accessible book in
terms of it is let's just start.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
At one oh one and and.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Writes it very clearly and is not testing you, but
it's just giving you this tool, but like honestly giving
these tools because I remember you and I have had
discussions about we were worried about using the wrong the
wrong terminology. We just and I remember lamenting to Eves
(10:57):
once this isn't what we do. But I remember I
re lamenting to Eaves once that I felt like nobody
talks about things they think are too tough to talk about.
And I think disability falls in that for a lot
of people, because they're so we've been so indoctrinated with
this idea that you don't talk about.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
It right, that you silence it, and it's an impolite, yes,
to even acknowledge it. M She even talks about the
historical context of having some terms that really go back
to using them as entertainment only and if not to
be silenced and put into the like to the darkness,
(11:37):
essentially like put away where you couldn't find that. And
we know that's been a historical thing all over the world.
In the fact that still kind of happens. Of course,
that goes along also with eugenics.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
She does touch onto that, if I remember correctly.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
Yes, But of course that's not the entire book, although
that's a clear reminder of why these conversations are so
important that we don't do that again, don't.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
We don't fall back to that oral less see when
it's coming.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yes, she does talk about she has a history section,
which she is very clear is very abbreviated and just
a jumping, jumping off point. But she does talk about
eugenics and the history of that.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
She also does talk about.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Disability and intersectionality and privilege a lot because she's a
white woman in a wheelchair, so she just talks about
the differences and how she's treated versus other people. But
she also talks about judgment within communities. Again, this is
the largest minority community in the world, so can't really
(12:47):
escape it. I could talk about that in the LGBTQ
plus community ad nauseum. But I think people sometimes if
they're outside of the community, assume like everybody agrees.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
But that's not the case.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
But yes, she also talks about ableism, right, Yes.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
And we got a quote here and it says, but
ableism takes a heavy toll. Too many disabled people have
been led to believe that our very lives are not
worth living. And if there's one thing, just one that
you take away from reading this book, let it be this.
That line of thinking is unequivocally untrue. Disabled lives are
worth living.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Oh yeah, she.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Was talking about some tropes and any and I've actually
talked about this specific movie before and I refuse to
watch anything like this because it is there's something too
that's like, uh, why, I've seen many of people who
are entirely happy and are fine, I think this and
(14:03):
the same trumpe as like it's the end of their lives.
Tips like they're angry, they're hostile, they're all bitter about.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
The world, and that's not true.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
It's the same thing with like Forrest Gump, Like I say,
he eventually does find his joy, but this like trope
of like I'm angry because of this, this and this.
I'm like he probably has more ptsded and anger. But
you know whatever, uh, and and understanding. There's just so
many people who would be seemingly able body who are
(14:34):
going through tough times and probably are are talking about
how they feel like life is not worth living because
of a like sepal wisom. But then that's the same thing.
It's kind of like that level of like the reasons
are not because of this, The reason is because of this,
like you know, like the differing it doesn't matter necessarily,
and the way that we have to be like, oh no,
(14:55):
but you have to be so unhappy because you can't
do the A, B or C, which is so it
is truly offensive.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, and we've talked about a lot of those. We'll
come back to some of those tropes later. But it's
sort of the like overcoming disability or fixing disability or
praying over disability.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
But she told me like she talks about being prayed over.
I was like, no, he's a kid too.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
But we are going to talk about some of the
because one of the points she also makes is that
you know, if we had if things were accessible, if
the government was providing for us, like then we wouldn't
have perhaps so much anchor, Like it's not coming from
(15:46):
the disability necessarily, it's coming from the lack of support.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Lack of support like, oh, we're going to talk so
much more about that. But I also think about the
fact that she talks about her dad, you know, and
finding that No.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
He's a normal person who loves his family.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
I don't understand why there's pity on him or like
extra good for you, like extra awards or for him
for me. And it's just there's just this level in
that conversation too. But she talks about but what about
the fact that you know, my mom and I are able
to bring this type of joy in and he loves
like we love him as which he loves us, and
(16:25):
we are an equal relationships, Like this is a necessary
tone to take and when it's just like, no, but
this is a marriage for family, I don't understand why
you're doing this in that level of well, like we
are happy, we are a happy family, and we have
just just the same stress, Like we have just as
much stress as the next family.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Yeah, you don't really need to comment on you honestly.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
So that does bring us to the terminology, which I
really appreciate it because we have gone back and forth. Yes,
so here's a quote. There's one thing we should address
right away. We need to stop using the word handicapped.
It's an outdated term that's fallen out of favor with
most disabled people, and quite frankly, it makes my skin crawl.
(17:13):
Occasionally I'll find myself saying things such as handicapped bathroom
or a handicapped entrance because old terminology dies hard, but
there are better words to use. Talking about a person
disability is better than handicapped, pointing out a parking spot
with the blue lines it's accessible parking. And then she
also breaks down. So this is what we really have been, like,
(17:35):
what should we do? Person first language versus identity first language?
So person first language would be something like person with
a disability to stress that they are a person who.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Happens to have a disability.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Identity first language would be something like disabled person, where
the disability is a part of their identity. People have preferences,
but neither are wrong, And a running scene throughout this
book is just politely ask if you're not sure or
you know, perhaps they might correct you, and don't be
defensive about it.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Right, and that, yeah, that was that bigger point.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
It's like, if they correct you, if they care enough
about you and care enough to have a relationship with
you to be like, eh, I would rather you say
this about me, then you listen to that. My initial
reaction to any of body that corrects me, I freak out,
thinking that I've done the worst thing ever, and then.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I spiral for days and just want to rod away.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
But she even makes a point about that, and she
was like, don't make this about yourself, and I was.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Like, well, damn, so there there's a lot to that.
But really that's because.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
She was just like, it's just it's and it's fine,
Like it means just as much if you listen and
respect that and then learn from that from then on.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
And I think that's back and forth.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Is like as a show that we do, we talk
and make this about us, but trying to get it correctly.
This is why I think like things like the activists
around the world, when I talk about them, I take
what they label they have labeled. Often I will quote
them in order to get it correctly. Of course, people
are like, why do you have them on the show?
We would love to, We would love to for the
(19:17):
short segments, it's not worth their time. But in the
biggest simms, we do love those types of interactions. Sometimes
we just have too much on our plate. All of
that to say, having that being able to see that
and if you don't have that, to ask that or
to say I apologize without pronunciations. We talk about this,
we're we try to do it. Sometimes we just can't
(19:39):
get the correct ones. And unfortunately we are single person
or two peoples, and we do best with what we have.
But I absolutely appreciate when people do correct us and
doing this correctly. I have been saying handicap still because
that is the old language, but now, not knowing this,
I know it's gonna take me a minute. That's going
(20:00):
to take me a minute, and you probably have to
correct me in some things because I'll be like, okay, accessible,
that makes sense. But late we don't know, and later
in life, like ten years from now, that might change
through it and that's okay.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
We just roll with the times.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah, this is what we wrote about in the preface
to our book.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
By the way, we were like, right now, this is
how people are talking about these things, but it could change,
and that's not that right.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Other things that.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Happened that the author talks about, and these chapters are
hitting disabled people against each other, so low functioning versus
high functioning when it comes to ability, and all of
that being kind of set to the standard of normal right,
which what is that right? A parent versus not a parent,
(20:53):
which is visible versus invisible. So some people have disabilities
that you can't see on first glance or something, but
pittying that against each other. And then there's medical model
versus social model. So here's a quote. The social model
emerged as a response to the incomplete perspective of the
(21:15):
medical model. According to the social model, people are disabled
not by medical conditions, but by environments, attitudes, and systems
that create barriers. As an example, through the lens of
the social model, I can attribute my status as disabled
to an environment that isn't wheelchair accessible, rather than my
medical diagnosis. So this is sort of like if everywhere
(21:37):
was accessible, then.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
I wouldn't have a disability because I.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Could get anywhere, you know what I mean. So I
thought that was a really interesting debate that people have.
And then there's also common judgments or misconceptions. So here
is one of I think my favorite quotes. It's important
(22:04):
to remember that if you've met one disabled person, you've
met one disabled person, and if you have a disability,
then the only disability experience you're an expert on is
your own. Yeah, I think that's good to keep in mind.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Right, and also even with someone else that has made
a similar diagnosis, that's different. Your persons and your treatments
are going to be completely different m a lot of
the times. So you can't put that onto that person
tell them they're doing something wrong.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah. Yeah, And that's she.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Like we said, she has a lot of quotes from
other people with disabilities throughout the book, and she'll say
sometimes like I disagree with that, but I get where
they're coming from, and I think that that's important to
be like, Okay, well that's your life, and I respect
that decision. And that's not how I feel, but I
respect that message. It's not hurting me. Also, it does
(23:16):
delve into, yes, using disability as an insult, and this
was something that I knew.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
It didn't surprise me, but I was like.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
So many of the stories she shared.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
What what people making these unsolicited like jokes, uh, praying
a child, praying over her, unwarranted, unasked leaning on someone's
wheelchair without asking, not knowing them, which I hadn't thought
about how invasive that was until I read this, and
(23:54):
I was like, yeah, that's real.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
That's such an odd thing because that's someone's I mean,
for her, that's how she moves, that's a part of her.
But for me, in like before I read that, I
was like, oh, absolutely, which I should have thought of
it that way. But in my head, it's also their property.
They pay for this, you know, like this is costly equipment.
I like, I understand that. Why would you like it
(24:19):
just doesn't seem and also you who don't know how
stable it is, how it functions, there may be this
like type of manufactures, you know, like you never know
because people have to do with what they have. Unfortunately,
because this country is when it comes to again disability
rights and providing the right stuff and equipment and oftentimes
we'll give you with the most minimal thing and also
(24:41):
like allowing for abilities and so if you know, you
don't know, you don't know what this is. So to me,
I'm like, what even in like a hospital, when they
have the ones that are like kind of more accessible
for uh, the the actual hospital to use themselves for
different patients, I would not touch those. Yeah, So that
(25:03):
just baffled me in first place.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
I was like the audacity, Yeah, especially if because she
makes clear like you know you might have a friend
you're cool with and you've communicated with, Yeah, that's okay
for you to do, but like strangers.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
Yeah even still like you're like, m like the only
way is like if you had permission to be like
do you want me to push you here and there?
And then I put something like with yours something do
you mind holding this or do you mind.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Like as with anything like that?
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Just yeah, odd odd some of these things that she
was and of course like of course because people have
Noku and also the ableism and those really have this
like level of like yeah, this is part of my
you're in my space type of thing, or you're taking
like there's so much to this in this conversation again
of like entitlement, but like yeah, I just could not
(25:53):
imagine the leaning on somebody's wheelchair, which can and why why?
Speaker 3 (26:01):
And I thought they were there was this whole thing
where like.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
I don't know if you saw this debate, and I
know you shouldn't be part of the book club, But a
woman is at the Disney World saw a really cute
pink wheelchair and she decided she would to take it
because her daughter was tired. It was sitting in front
of somewhere and everybody was like, uh, you just took
someone's property, what the like? And it just sparked the
(26:27):
whole debate about like who has like who's this and
who's that? And they're like, no, Disney definitely has their own,
and I think they do have like their own, but
you also have to check them check them out.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Right, Yeah, I'm pretty sure you have to check them out.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
And so I'm like, why was still what the is someone?
If you you're just tired, why would you why would
you do this? Why would you do? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (26:53):
And also I get very frustrated with people who's part
too close to handicap spaces because they they may need
they need that extra space, you don't know why. Therefore
they are again the invisible disability stuff like.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
They may have why are you in anybody's business?
Speaker 1 (27:10):
People love policing that, and I'm not to say people
will abuse it, but when my dad had like a
cancer and he had the handicap, people would come up.
They'd be like, you look, fine, he's got he had
a cane and everything, but they would come up to
him and I'm like.
Speaker 6 (27:24):
Jez okay, again the audacity and does and then again
She's right, it doesn't make sense that this is people's
business or this is people's entitlement, and it's more likely
to happen to the people of the disability community like
it may yeah.
Speaker 7 (27:41):
Why yeah, And she does talk about I think a
lot of people are trying to prove that they're like cool,
like they're not.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
I see your disability and I can lean on your
wheelchair because I'm not freaked out by it. But the
truth is, you're not handling it well. You're making the
person uncomfortable and you're making it all about you. Like
I think it's kind of that vibe of like both
laziness or like not caring, but also trying to prove
(28:16):
oh but I'm an ally when you're really the opposite
doing the opposite thing.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
The same thing is again the prayer thing, like we
really are telling them there's something. You're telling them there's
something wrong with you. Like that's that's such a judgmental level.
Feel like, first of all, we all know how we
feel about this type of religion anyway, but the audacity
to do that as well as people who have the impoliteness,
(28:46):
I guess, the again, the able ism to think that
you have the right to speak.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
On someone else's disability once again, whether.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
It's to ask tons of questions that is not your
business or be like, oh, I'm trying to do the
whole I relate, I want so well. Once upon a
time I stuffed my toe type of thing. Type of
conversation you're like, this is this is odd, like in
order to like to be like, oh, I'm I'm I
understand you type of thing like.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
That's not empathy, that's that's odd.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
But as well as like the people who are like, yeah,
but I'm sure you'll be fixed soon. I know God,
God has plans to do this for you as if
again that like over patronizing of like pity and sympathy
when no one asked for that, and again a lot
of like the bigger conversation, it's like, no, you know you,
what you really need to be pity about is calling
(29:38):
your congressman and telling them this is like I need
medicaid without loss of this and having a job or
having an earning and all these things like this is
the wrong way to go. You are not looking at
what the big problem could be and solving for me
the person who is disabled, or for a disabled person
so it's such just a whole thing.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Mm hmm. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
And I think that's really the truth of it is
they don't want to solve the problem of it, and
they don't want to look at in the eye or
admit the truth of yes, we're not helping or supporting people.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
But also if somebody prays over like if you if
you're none of our listeners did this, but if you did,
that's something where you're essentially I would feel I'm not
saying everyone would feel this way, but then I would
feel like you're telling me God made me this way,
perhaps because I did something wrong, right, and now I'm I.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Must depend on prayers to fix what's wrong.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
That's is just a terrible thing to do somebody who's
just going about their day.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
Man.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
There's also this lettle like, yeah, do you really think
you're perfect just because you have this one ability that
I don't have?
Speaker 4 (30:53):
Baby, I think you need to look at me or
to start praying for yourself if you really want to
fix them.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I did.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I did a She made that point several times, like,
not everybody's the everybody has different abilities that they can
do the same thing, right, But yes, she also does
have a chapter on media, and I just want to
throw in here she was on Sesame Street. You can
still find the clip. I found it earlier today. She
was on there as a child. But she does get
(31:20):
through a lot of the tropes, some of which we discussed.
Inspiration porn might relate to what we've just been talking about.
It's kind of idea of able bodied people making themselves.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Feel better, right.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
I think she takes it a one step further saying
pity porn. And we've talked a lot about this, whether
it's like, oh, you're so inspirational, this, this is the
only thing you have, right, so brave, you're so brave
for existing type of conversation. Again, like, there's so much
(31:53):
to this layers because we talked about that with people
like who've gone through a hard life and as a
queer person, as a person of color, so like all
of these things that they really want the sob story
so they can feel good and think that they're saving you,
which is again, yeah about you, right, And then once
(32:13):
again thing yeah, they thank god I'm not them type
type of conversation, and you're like that, I'm so grateful.
I have so much to be thankful for. When you
look at that's such a like connoissance. That does make
me want to punch somebody.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Yeah, that's that's just And we didn't go into it,
but again go read the book. But in the Ableism
chapter that quote that we included, she was talking about how,
you know, we don't talk about it, but that is
every day, every time I go outside, every time I
interact with somebody, like it's just there. And how exhausting
(32:51):
that is. When she is living a very fulfilling life, right,
but she has this thing right where people see her
and just have to call it out.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
I don't believe her.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Yeah, oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
So the final chapter is about ally ship and we've
already talked about some of this, but she's really big
on you know, when in Dell ask politely whatever it is.
She even has a whole thing about like some people
prefer if you're in a wheelchair, they prefer the person
to kind of kneel down to their level, and some
people prefer that you don't. Right, So like when in
doubt ask politely, it is the person in questions decision,
(33:35):
but it's all about respect. So many of these things.
I was like, I'm not dismissing any of this at all,
but so many of the things with the stories of
the bad actors.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
I was like, do you not know how to treat
people right? People right? Don't do that right?
Speaker 4 (33:49):
And then then again like the asking part, there is
that part of like, no, but I'm not sure, so
I don't know how to handle this. It shouldn't discourage
you from getting to know people and getting to know
anybody who might have a disability. So in that conversation
she's I think she talks about she doesn't love people
crouching necessarily unless she knows them. She would rather use
stand from a distance so that she can have the
(34:10):
conversation without creating her neck or any of that such.
She's talked about people with like being deaf and how
they communicate and making sure we understand not to take
things or to like block things, just being really like
conscientious on how we communicate with that. But again she
understands that this can be difficult for people who may
not have interacted with different people of different abilities again
(34:33):
or disability, so all of those things like it is,
it can be confusing in some of the ways we talked.
She talks about people who are nonverbal having like the
writing pads and all of that. So it is interesting
in that she does take to account that different people
can have for my own, you know, our own invisible disability,
which is the anxiety that skyrockets that makes me shut down,
(34:57):
like what do we do? How do we do this
without having a full panic attack about it? Like having
that understanding and grace and that this could be is
it is. For some people it can be a little
bit hard to navigate, maybe because of their again, their
own disabilities and having to work through that as well.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Yes, yeah, and it ends on a very she has
a whole section on disability etiquette, but it does end
on a you know, we're all learning. This is an
ongoing process, keep learning, which I think is a great message.
So here is a final quote. This means that the
first step to being an ally is unlearning this misconception
(35:41):
and recognizing that disabled people aren't in need of saving.
We're in need of a world that recognizes our rights
and our humanity without question.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Yeah, m hm.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
It's it's a really good book, really really recommend it.
It's a it's a very and it's very infformative, but
it's short, you get a lot, you learn a lot
out of those pages, So yes, go check it out, listeners.
If you have any recommendations for other books that we
should do, you can email us at Hello at stuff
(36:17):
Wenever Told You dot com. You can find us on
Blue Sky at molst a podcast or on Instagram and
TikTok at stuff I Never Told You for us on YouTube,
and we have a book you can get wherever you
get your books. Thanks, It's always too our Super sixteena
our excepted produce and Maya and a contributor Joey. Thank
you and thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never
Told You to pot shoul my Heart Radio for more
podcast or my Heart Radio you can check out the
Heart Radio, Apple podcasts, or ever you listen to your
(36:38):
favorite shows
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.