July 27, 2022 • 43 mins
For this month's book club pick, we nerd out over nerdom with Jen Wilde's Queens of Geek, a coming-of-age love letter to fandom with themes around friendship, disability, queer relationships, love and conventions.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane.
Never told your production of I Heart Radio. So for
Disability Pride Month, we wanted to do a book about
someone with a disability, and we also want to do
something a bit lighter than we normally cover because the
(00:26):
news has been so heavy lately. So we're covering a
gin wild book, Queens of geek Um, which is the
super heartwarming coming of age young adult love story set
at a NERD convention. I couldn't really I don't know
exactly how to describe it NERD conventions when I came
up with this. It's essentially comic con. But like I
(00:46):
was gonna say't comic talked about fully today? Okay, and
I have seen it her at Dragon Con well, because
I've been to comic con. Um, this seems like a
maybe I'm wrong, This seems like a comic con on steroids.
It seems like comic con selative meets south by Southwest.
(01:07):
That's what Comic Con was, dragon Con on steroids and
Dragon Con is. Okay, here's my opinion, and I'm gonna
already caveat this. You're gonna get a lot of personal
stories from me. Throughout this one because it was like
speaking to me and I have a lot of it.
This was Annie encompassed as a young adult novel. Um. Yeah,
(01:30):
So in my opinion, and I know not everyone will
necessarily agree, Dragon Coron is more about like fans and cosplay.
Comic Con is much more um commercial, so it's got
like bigger usually has bigger names, like bigger announcements. Companies
do big announcement like there's the a zombie maze in
(01:52):
this one. Um, there was something like that when I went.
But the weight is like four hour, like everything to
do is like four a five hour await. It's just
they do talk about that in the book. They do.
They do indeed, and they got their special passes so
they got to go up to the couple of things. Yes, yes,
(02:12):
and you get it right okay, oh yeah, I've got
to get it right. I gotta get it right. Yeah.
I mean, because it's closest to Comic Con. But maybe
it's just because my experience at Comic Con, I didn't
get to do most of this stuff. Maybe that's why
I was kind of like, so your experience would have
been if you had a love interest, you could have
been Taylor, because Taylor just pretty much waited the entire
(02:32):
time and then had an experience with the contest, which
would be your experience. I feel like maybe I'm wrong.
So and they just stood in line and or flirted
with their best friends. Oh yes, oh yes, yeah, I definitely.
As I said, there were so many things where I
was like, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. But also
(02:53):
this is a very it's a nice read because it's like,
it's very very sweet, and that's very lovely, like things
turn out well. But there are, you know, obviously, certain
things where I was like, no, it does a word.
I was so traumatized that I did not expect this
to have a heavy ending. It was nice heavy ending. Everybody,
(03:17):
Um yeah, and it's it's very it's a very quick
and easy read. And it features characters with disabilities, people
who are queer, when of color, and diverse body types.
And originally the author, Jim Wilde, started posting fan fiction
on what Pad in twelve and you can still find
this story, I think, And here's a quote from the
(03:38):
author to all the what patterns out there, thank you,
thank you, thank you. When I posted my first story
to wa Pad in twelve, I had no idea it
would lead to this, but it's safe to say I
wouldn't be here without you. Your excitement over the imaginary
worlds I write about gave me the courage to pursue
writing as a career. I wish I could hook each
and every one of you. And I sent this to
Samantha beforehand in the best way, pass full, because I've
(04:00):
read amazing fan fiction. When I was treating this, I
was like, I wonder if this is a fan fiction
obviously like that she would definitely know what that is.
And then her love for a famous character, fictional famous character,
and here I feel like she knows this love, this love.
So while this bisexual, autistic and has anxiety as well
(04:23):
as a nerd, and a lot of that informed her writing,
and especially the character of Taylor and so obvious, I'm
guessing as she's gotten more famous, she understands the character
of Charlie a little more, especially how she feels like
connected to the fans, which you don't always hear. So
that's interesting to me. So in a Q and A
about writing this book, Wild says, quote, I was angry
(04:44):
with the constant sexism, racism, able is um, homophobia, and
general bigotry I had witnessed both in my life and
online as an autistic, bisexual girl with anxiety. I was
angry that people like me were either represented in media
as burdens or the butt of a joke, and that
if we're represented at all, I was angry that society
wants to put me in a box or stereotyping and
(05:05):
my friends. And I'm still angry about all that. Just
like Taylor, I have trouble verbally expressing my emotions, so
I deal with it the best way I know how writing.
And yeah, it's that very like she put that feeling
on the book for these characters, for sure, Yes, yes, indeed,
And I really really enjoyed it, and it reignited my
my desire to read fan Girl and the resulting fan
(05:29):
fiction novels. She wrote about the fan fiction in fan Girl,
which we talked about in her fan Fiction episode. Okay, yeah, yeah, okay,
so that might be a summer read for me. But okay,
let's talk about the plot. This book follows a group
of three friends during one weekend at Supercon, which they
call their Holy Grail of Conventions, which she essentially Comic Con,
(05:53):
but more The friends in question are Taylor, Charlie, and Jamie,
who are about to graduate high school in Australia, and
it has an alternating p O V structure between Taylor
and Charlie. Taylor is autistic, anxious, and quote curvy and
a huge fan of the Queen Firestone series, while Charlie
is a Chinese Australian content creator and actor who recently
(06:14):
had a big break in a movie UM and also
a very public breakup with her co star Reese Ryan
after he cheated on her and humulated her UM. She
is signed on to be in the sequel of her
breakout film, Although Rising, which is a zombie film, and
through that she got all of them passes to Supercon
which Supercon is in l A, by the way, and
(06:35):
the friends, all of whom are planning on moving to
l A after graduating, traveled to the US for the convention.
While the atmosphere overwhelms her, Taylor is determined to meet
her hero, Skyler Atkins, who wrote the Queens of Firestone
books that transformed Taylor's life and helped her deal with
her anxiety and undiagnosed autism. She was recently diagnosed when
(06:56):
the book was written. UM. She proudly her self made
cosplay and waits a line to meet Skyler, believing that
if she can do this, if she can meet her,
she can do anything. But Skyler has to leave abruptly devastated.
Her best friend and very obvious crush, Jamie tries to
convince her to enter a sort of Biggest Fan contest
(07:16):
where the prize is hanging out with Skyler and going
to the after party with her, and also the premier
um of the next movie, but Taylor has a panic
attack at just the thought of it. Meanwhile, Charlie is
doing a lot of publicity and learns from our publicist
Mandy that her ex is coming to Supergne when he
wasn't originally supposed to, and the studio wants her to
pretend they are back together. Charlie refuses, but agrees to
(07:37):
pretend they're on good terms. She meets the creator and
actors she's long idealized, named Alyssa, and there's an immediate
spot between them. They have lunch problems to do a
YouTube collapse together yes Um. Taylor and Jamie explore the
convention and Jamie runs into a girl she'd met waiting
in line to see skyler named Josie, and Josie shows
her the comic that she made about an autistic Superhue
(08:00):
Euro and they have a very vulnerable moment together and
Jessie really inspires Taylor UM and Taylor, by the way,
is posting about her experience on Tumblr this whole time. UM.
Taylor joins a group of Queen Firestone Cause players and
meets Britanna, who convinces her to participate in the Ultimate
Fan Competition. Charlie and Alyssa do their collab together and
(08:20):
end up kissing at the end. UM. Charlie says she's
going to edit that bit out, and Alyssa asked Charlie
out to dinner. Charlie agrees, but because she's scarred by
the very public nature of her relationship and break up
with Reese UM, the fans shipped them as Chase and
pretty much everyone keeps asking Charlie if they're going to
get back together. Charlie wants to have their date privately.
(08:41):
Alyssa is hurt by this, not wanting to be a secret,
but ultimately agrees after Charlie explains, and she takes Charlie
to the closed con Arcade where they play games have
a picnic make out, and then go back to the
hotel to have sex. Um later we find out that
Alissa's ex girlfriend wouldn't go public with her even after
almost two years, pretended like she didn't know Alyssa when
(09:02):
they saw each other for the first time at a
friend's funeral after they broke up, UM and she was
with another woman. Um also listens super into stand in Astronauts. Yeah,
you know, I am very confused. And maybe it's because
at that point I didn't understand. I don't know why.
I don't think they have a descriptor of Alyssa. I'm
guessing she's a black character. Was that the reason why
(09:26):
the ex girlfriend was trying to hide her because obviously
she wasn't afraid to come out as gay because she
had a girlfriend and still didn't acknowledge her at that point.
Who was famous at this point? Right, Yes, I believe.
So I was very confused. Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm
not sure it could be anyway. This is one of
the small whole great book. I just was confused by that.
(09:49):
Uh So, Taylor almost backs out of the first part
of the Supervan Contest, which is the cosplay contest, but Brianna,
the woman she met earlier, promises her they'll stick together. Um.
Taylor misses her mark of what makes the final cut
to the second part of the competition, the trivia contest,
as does Brianna. Charlie invites Taylor and Jamie to sort
of oppress event at a zombie maze, and Charlie's movie
(10:12):
was a zombie movie, which I didn't realize until later
on either. I was like, oh, okay, um with Reese
and Charlie and Reese have a fight while Taylor and
Jabie kiss and make out. However, Taylor panics and spirals
thinking about what this means, was it a one time
thing or she doesn't know how to be a girlfriend?
And Charlie and her habit talk that laid to Taylor
(10:33):
and Jabie reconciling and conversating and realizing, oh, this is
what's happening, communicating and then kissing some more. And then
Taylor goes to the trivia contest and overhears another contestant
calling her Queen fat Stone, so she retreats to the bathroom,
writes a tumbler post about it, and overhears Brianna having
a panic attack and helps Brienna get through this panic attack,
(10:56):
and Brianna reveals she had a stutter and is thinking
of dropping out of the contest, and Taylor shares that
she herself was terrified at the cosplay contest and would
have left if not for Brianna. Both realized that perhaps
confidence isn't what they think it is or doesn't look
like they think it does, and go out to compete.
It comes down to Brianna and Taylor, but Taylor gets
(11:17):
tongue tied and Brianna wins um though both are very
supportive each other supportive from I love that throughout the
book because I really was on at the very beginning.
I was like, oh, no, here we go. This girl's
gonna be famous, and then she's gonna shun her friends,
and then ever happens. But you know, within that scene,
what I really loved is, yes, this girl, these two
(11:38):
girls are talking about her, and one of the girls
call her fat Stone. The other girl is mad and
late and says, how dare you that is so mate
and walks off. That is rare of a scene, and
I like that she did it that way. They were
so because we're so used to seeing Like I was
ready for it, and it was like a relief, it
(11:59):
really was. But yeah, it was genuinely quick scene and
I know the focus was that she was called bad,
but I love that part of the girl who's like
not having it. She's like, you're me, why would you
say that? And walk off and I'm like, wow, that's
not how I saw that playing out. So nice wild um.
While Charlie was watching the contest being supportive, and she
(12:20):
found out Mandy Row had accidentally posted the unedited video
of her and Alista kissing, and now the world knows
and they're trending. Charlie has to go to a damage
control meeting with Reese, who, by the way, has already
insulted Taylor, insulted Charlie and then pushed Jamie sucker punched
Jamie at a party earlier, and it's so over it.
(12:42):
She tells Mandy that after this, she refuses to do
any press with Reese anymore, and Mandy Mandy backs her
up and gives her extra passes to the Supercon after
party as a way of saying I'm sorry, And then
Charlie goes to tell Alyssa what happened and they have
a serious dtr do you know what. I love that
(13:03):
DTR defining the relationship that leads Charlie confused and in tears. Yes,
and then yeah, I know because I was writing this
out and I was like, oh, I think I could
use that term. Samantha taught me. Thank you. I'm learning,
I'm learning. UM. Taylor and Jamie have a DTR of
their own when they get second and elevator together, and
(13:23):
they're both honest with their worries and hopes for the
future and their relationship and their history. UM. They open
up about what they love about each other, and Taylor
describes her experience with autism and anxiety. They make out
until the elevator starts working again. They reunite with Charlie,
who reveals she's dealing with fear over her relationship with Alyssa,
and Taylor gives her a pep talk. Charlie decides on
(13:45):
a grand romantic gesture and at the after party plays
the video, proving to Alyssa that she's serious and doesn't
care what anyone else thinks. Alyssa runs to find her
in the arcade and they make out some more, and
then Brianna andwered uses Taylor to Skyler uh they're hero um.
It was very kind and down to earth and blushes
(14:07):
that Taylor's praise and Taylor is over the mir room.
Taylor then introduced the Skyler to Jamie and Josie and
later with Charlie an Alissa. They party till the sun
rises and yeah, I do love that they and Wild
ends it on Taylor doing a tumbler post and then
it cuts it. This was a whole and I don't know,
(14:41):
we're gonna talk about it, but it wasn't overall sweet.
Take at something that I have had these moments and
I don't know about you. I know, actually I do
know about you, uh that like there are events that
stick in your memory as being some of the best
moments of your life and wishing that you could just
hold onto it and rasp it forever. And then then
(15:02):
ending in the photo booth taking all of these memorable
pictures and memorable moments, but also having like Charlie and
Taylor really honing on each other, because it also made
me sad. I like, oh, would you'll leave? Hot school
is everything? Especially if she goes on the startom, especially
if Charlie goes onto her stardom, Like yeah, it's gonna
(15:24):
change it is gonna change it. Yeah, And that was
a big thing throughout the book. Um, and we are
going to talk about that. But um, there were so
many relatable things throughout this and one of them was, yeah,
like when Taylor gets the convention, she's like, it's gonna
be so fun. We're not gonna worry about anything. It's
only going to be fun and trying so hard to
(15:47):
make it fun. And then all of these things are
like upsetting or don't go the way you think they
do or yeah and all that, and it was I
felt that very much, but it was lovely that in
the end it worked out. It was right. It was
nice to see that perfect little ending. But I feel like, again,
(16:09):
there are those moments that will just like you have
that emotion. You might not even remember everything that happened,
you just know you have that heartwarming feeling about that time.
And that's what this moment felt like, especially because it
was like a week maybe span that they did all
of these giant, lovely things that really cultivated the character.
(16:30):
Love that Jamie's character was so kind and understanding. Also
in my head, I'm like, huh, that's not always gonna happen.
Either like I'm just such a negative person sometimes with this,
but I think it was really sweet and it was
it was nice, like, oh, this is a good y
are like, there's definitely a lot of like hy A
novels are dystopian and sad and tramatic that I'm like,
(16:53):
this is good. This is good. It was good because,
like I said, I had the same thing where I
kept waiting for the like shoot to fall, the bad
thing to happen, and there was plenty of like drama
and things went wrong, but nothing ever went seriously wrong,
and the friends like start together and we're supportive of
each other, and it was very very nice. It was
(17:17):
a good change from what we did. But I also
like everything about it is her way of describing the
anxiety and the autism, the mind, how her mind plays
out during these times. I felt so relatable, too relatable.
I feel like I've had these conversations when I talked
to people about a d h D and all of
these things, and I'm like, I need you to stop
(17:38):
reading my mail, thank you very much, um, But yeah,
like it was really an amazing perspective. I think she
did it very realistically, felt right on. I did have
a moment of panic at one of those chapters. I
listened to this on audible. So, by the way, if
you have a chance, I know reading the book is
classic and I love it. But hearing them in like
(17:59):
the with the all Australian accident and understanding where they're
coming from, and then like the voices that they do,
they found perfect characters. I felt like to really bring
this to life in a different way than if I
had just been reading it and hearing him the voices
in my head. But like at one point where she
was describing one of the things that she was going
through in the packet forth, I almost had a panic
attack myself because it was too real and to one
(18:21):
point that I was like, okay, so I need you
to stop doing that because I like my I was like,
I'm starting to put me at the point that i
can't breathe. I'm I'm gonna get to that point. Um.
So it was a little too real, I will give
you that. But that made it even better as as
because when she calmed down, I calmed out with her,
(18:42):
like like but oh that was a minute. Almost triggered
me into having a little bit of an anxiety moment
as too, but but like it was that on point
in what she was saying and how she was describing
it as well as like just being able to play
it out, but also normalizing the relationship ships and normalizing
um this having conversations with each other and try to
(19:04):
walk through things instead of just in your head. Also, yeah,
she does a great job and normalizing the cute romances
that are happening without it feeling like it's you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
there's definitely As I said, they are the tumbler posts throughout,
(19:26):
so there's a couple of different writing styles throughout. But
when she does sort of her panic or anxiety moments,
they are written sort of differently and they do take
you out and they they make you feel it like, yeah,
I had moments to you where I was like, wow,
I'm really this sounds like something I've experienced. Um. Yes, yes,
(19:47):
So we did want to read a quote from the
book about that most people think of anxiety as panic attacks.
That's not entirely accurate. I haven't had a panic attack
in years. I started to recognize the signs and learned
what I needed to do to stop it from spiraling.
I learned how to internalize it to avoid public embarrassment.
Anxiety is an attack that explodes out of me. It's
not a volcano that lies dormant until it's triggered by
(20:09):
an earth shattering event. It's a constant companion, like a
blow fire that gets into the house in the middle
of summer, flying around and around you. Hear it buzzing,
but you can't see it, can't capture it, can't let
it out. My anxiety is invisible to others, but often
it's the focal point of my mind. Everything that happens
on a day to day basis is filtered through a
lens colored by anxiety. That nervousness that makes your palm
(20:31):
sweat and your heart race before you get up and
make a speech in front of an audience. That's what
I feel in normal conversation at a dinner table. Are
just thinking about having a conversation at a dinner table.
Um and yeah, going on, And she says, everything feels
like I'm on stage, a spotlight on me, all lies
on me, watching judging like I'm one second away from
total disaster. It's invisible, it's irrational, it's never ending. I
(20:54):
could be standing there smiling and chatting like everything is
totally fine, while secretly wanting to scream and probably and
run away. No one would ever know, and in my mind,
no one can hear me scream. I hide it because
I know it's not understood or acceptable, because I'm not
understood or acceptable. So here I am hiding it, standing
in a toilet stall, trying to remember how to breathe. Yes, yes,
(21:18):
And this this is one that I feel like I
really connected to. And we've been talking about this through
the pandemic. We were just talking about it, like for me,
it's gotten worse where it does when I'm talking to somebody.
In my head there's like panic, like, oh God, what
are you gonna stay next? What are you gonna do?
What are you gonna do? And I think I even
talked about it recently about how I went out to
a restaurant and I just felt like everyone was looking
(21:40):
at me. And I know they weren't, but I just
was like so uncomfortable with my body. It's like, oh
everyone can see me. Am I being awkward or I'm
being so awkward. It's just it does kind of consume
a lot of your energy and attention. Yeah, yeah, And I,
as I said at the tap, I do you have
a lot of specific convention stories to a lot of this,
(22:05):
And one was I remember very clearly there's a time
I was waiting in line for something just as Catwoman,
and I told my ex that I felt like I
was one second way from having a major breakdown most
of the time, and that I hated having people look
at me. And he was so shocked, UM, and he
was like, well, why the hell do you do this? Then? Like,
what is this? I would never have said that about you.
(22:28):
It's like, well, it's smack that I put on. What
I'm telling you, The outward doesn't necessarily much once ago
going on inside. UM. In a weird way though, like
for me, wearing a costume sometimes makes it better because
(22:48):
I feel like someone else and it can go reverse
is As I've talked about at length, people can be
creepy at conventions, but in general, if people are leaving
me all un sometimes I can actually feel better in costume.
Something else that was mentioned, what were things like PTSD
(23:09):
and autism? As we said, UM, and there's like a
pretty great scene where Josie meets Taylor and they have
that talk UM, and Josie says, medication and therapy are great.
I tried natural therapies to yoga, acupunture, medication, aroma therapy,
and a lot of it helped me relax. But it
wasn't until I joined a few fandoms online and started
(23:29):
taking illustrations seriously that my anxiety really started to become
easier to manage. It sounds so cliched, but once I
started doing more things that made me happy, it made
everything else a little easier to deal with. I hold
my palms up. Wait are you saying that geeking out
helps you cope? She nods, Like nothing else. And this
is something we've talked about too. This is this is
(23:50):
true for me UM, like using fan fiction and media.
I love to get through trauma. UM. And we've talked
about that. Uh, how for some people that have that
is really beneficial and for some people like finding your
online community of other fans has been really really helpful
(24:12):
and and fan fiction is a place where you can
do that. There are other places too, but yeah, just
like art or writing or whatever, it is kind of
helping work work through things. And that's something in my therapy,
and my therapist is always like, well, clearly writing is
your thing, So like just as much as you can write,
um do it? Uh. And yeah, as I've said, my
(24:35):
fan fiction, my Quarantine Baby, I mean it's like five hundred,
six hundred pages. Now that's just therapy for me. And
then I started playing D and D as I said,
to to deal with PTSD. So yeah, that just really
hit home to me. I know that's not for everyone,
and it doesn't work for everyone, but it is something
that for me, I was like, yes, yes, keeping busy.
(25:01):
You know a lot of people like that. Um. And
then there's also the queer representation in this book, and
perhaps specifically bisexual representation, which we talk about. It doesn't
you don't see a lot of that, um, but the
character Charlie identifies as bisexual. Uh, And you do see
a lot of what I'm assuming because Wild the author,
also identifies as bisexual. You see a lot of the
(25:23):
like really comments about bisexuality people often get when they
say they're bisexual. For example, when Reese says he doesn't
believe it's real when Charlie tells him she's bisexual, and
then he asked her, have you ever been with a girl?
And Charlie has that kind of insecurity of she's never
(25:46):
been with a girl. And this is a quote from
Charlie about her sexuality. The moment I first realized I'm
into more than one gender was a quiet one. It
was sudden and almost anticlimactic. So it's not a particularly
exciting story. I was fourteen, and by that time I'd
had more than one crush on a girl, mostly movie stars.
But I never interpreted my feelings as a crush. I
(26:08):
just thought I admired them a whole lot. It didn't
occur to me that those feelings were similar to the
way I feel about guys I liked. I saw a
post on tumbler or with the title you won't believe
these actresses are bisexual or something stupid like that. I
didn't really know what it meant at the time, so
I googled it. It didn't take long to recognize myself
in many of the articles I found, and that was it.
But I've never actually been with a girl before. I've
(26:30):
never even flirted with a girl before. This is also new,
and I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into this.
Are we having lunch's friends or could this be something more? Yeah,
and I related to that too, because I that's essentially
what happened to me. I didn't know I bi sexuality
was that thing, and then I learned what it was,
and I was like, oh, yeah, I did have a
crush on both Scully and Molder. Yeah, so out of curiosity,
(26:54):
kind of out of left field. But the tumbler still exist. Yes, yes,
it is really really big in the fan fiction world.
But in fan fiction a lot of times the author
will put at the bottom, like here's my tumbler, and
that's where you can find like artwork that they've done,
our gifts that they've made, our challenges that they do,
(27:15):
where they're like, it's what was one recently, it's a
Darth Vader Luke exchange. But anyway, then everybody's writing all that.
That's the day I texted you and I was like,
so much fan fiction is updating books happening because somebody
posted on tumbler a challenge and everyone was like, oh, okay,
so yeah, I kind of forgot because one of the
things I kept thinking was this was based five years ago,
(27:39):
and like, I don't even they mentioned TikTok, do they?
I don't know, I don't think so. And I'm like, wow,
like it's already kind of changed, the like mediums have
changed since then. I don't like how wondering what it's
gonna look like this book is gonna look like it
even ten years. But I did wonder that because I
was like, it is Tumbler still around? Because I can't
remember still around? That's how I old I am. You're
(28:03):
welcome vines, aren't. I know they're not. I got I
got that part, you know, thank you? I now know?
Uh you know again, Yeah, we talked about this earlier.
I was excited to see the true friendships that happened,
and then women supporting women and no one taking anybody
down except that one nasty girl, which you know, I'm like,
she definitely had to put that in. But outside of that, really,
(28:24):
even again, that one girl who talked to the other
girl and the other girls defending Taylor was like, what
that was lovely to see and it was nice to
see throughout because they really cared and loved for each other. Uh.
The fact that Charlie was thinking about not want to
leave out her friends, um thinking about how much she
loved her fans, how many they were like, it was
(28:45):
really nice to see. There's another part about that. I
rub a hand over the back of my head, trying
to figure out how to explain it, Like sometimes I
don't think I'm being a girl right to have an undercut,
and we're clothes I've bought from the boys section, and
I don't wear makeup or do my nails, watch horror
movies and play video games, burp and swear, and don't
talk about my feelings or any of that crap. I'm
like Sandra Bullock and Miss Congeniality only before the makeover.
(29:10):
So Charlie shrugs, Gracy heart rocks. Besides, there's no way
to be a girl, Tay. You don't need to fit
yourself into what society tells us a girl should be.
Girls can be whoever they want, whether that's an ass kicking,
sarcastic crimes offing FBI agent or a funny, gorgeous, witty
beauty queen or both at the same time. And she
swings and arm around me and pulls me in. Are
(29:32):
you happy the way you are? Are you comfortable? Do
you feel like yourself? The corner of my mouth lifts
into a half smile. Yes, yes, and yes, then that's
all that matters. Get anything else? Yeah, yeah, um, and
I really liked that too, because m Taylor and Charlie
are kind of opposites in a lot of ways um
(29:53):
and how they look and what they like, but they're
just like still so close and they know, he said,
each other so well, so they know how to like
pump each other up. Yeah, they know how to uplift
each other. Um. And I like there's a scene where
Charlie is talking about like her sex life and Taylor
(30:14):
is like, oh, you know, I've never done it, and
it's like very sex positive both ways, like neither one
of them shames each other are is ashamed of it um,
which I thought was really refreshing too. Yeah. Um. And
then again like we've talked about this a lot, but
it was really nice that they met so many supportive
people at this convention. You had Josie helping Taylor, Brianna
(30:37):
helping Taylor, then Taylor helping Brianna UM, and then Brianna
helping Taylor get like it's just yeah, and then Mandy like,
even though she made that mistake, she wasn't demonized at all.
And then Charlie UM being so supportive of Taylor and
Taylor being so supportive Charlie UM almost all the women
are incredibly beautifully supportive of each other, um, and are
(30:59):
they for each other and are being truly happy for
each other. Because I thought there was gonna be some
because Charlie kept getting pulled away, so I thought there
was gonna be some like resentment, and there never was.
It was all like, no, go get it, you go
to do what you have to do, we'll be here,
we'll hang out after or whatever. That was nice. Yeah, yeah,
(31:21):
And uh, I know this is, you know, quite a
nice portrait. But I do have people who have met
people at conventions and they're like some of their best friends,
and they were very supportive of each other. And I
do have like a set of convention friends and it's nice,
like every yeah, every time, I like, oh I gotta
meet up with this person and this person this person.
To be fair, you have a little drama every now
(31:42):
and I but still overall pretty good. It's still fun.
You have the best. But I'm just saying, do yeah,
I love the story. I mean, I've got I've got
my like core group of friends that are like all
year round friends, and they'll they kind of interpret things
from me. They're like this guy, no, he's just trying
(32:06):
to get a date with you or something not not
that one. So that's I got. I got my backup
crew there and I'm there for them and we always
have a good time. Yeah. Yeah, and it's exhausting now
(32:30):
that Yeah, that was one of my favorite parts of
the book. Is that so much nerddom and so much phantom.
There's so many references. There's cosplay, there's fan fiction, there's
Star Wars, the Last of Us, Supernatural, um, and it
is really accurate depiction I think of of cosplay like
I was like when they would be like, you know,
you see this character next to this character, and this
(32:51):
character next to this character. That's one of my favorite things.
So you can tell that Wild was very familiar with
convention scene. There was some elements of toxic fandom. It
wasn't too much, but there was. And then yeah, the
whole meeting or heroes thing. I was so on edge
about that. When she finally met Skyler Atkins, I was like, oh,
what if she's terrible and you know, might not be
(33:14):
the most realistic thing, but she was lovely and that
was nice. Um at the beginning when the ill advised
plan where Jamie's like, well, let's just chase her down
the hall. Um. I accidentally had a moment like that
once with Summer Cloud, who I wasn't trying to meet
or anything, but I was. There's a Walk of Fame
(33:35):
at Dragon Con where you can get people's autographs, and
I just walked and I didn't realize it was closed. Um,
and she was in. There was like security guards, and
I almost got some serious trouble. But I was just like, oh, no,
no, no no, no, I didn't know. I didn't know. Back up,
I swear I'm not a creep. There's a lot of
stuff about the power of entertainment and the impact it
(33:55):
can have on people's lives. Um. You know, Taylor is saying,
like this transform my life, something me get through anxiety.
I did really love when Charlie's signing the autographs and
she sees all the people online and it's like wants
to be there and sign things for them and meet them,
like really loving the fans. I love that. In Charlie's story,
(34:16):
there is a lot of stuff about the double standard
for women in entertainment, Like in interviews, she's constantly getting
asked about how she stays in shape, about her ex
running in skinny jeans was something she had to do.
Running in heels was something she had to do for
the movie. She was told by the director to run
sex year and meanwhile Reese is getting like serious questions
(34:37):
about how he acts. And then Reese himself accuses Taylor. Essentially,
he says like, you'll have to sleep your way to
the top and be less of a bitch both. So
there was that. Then there was the fat phobia element,
Taylor feeling uncomfortable in her own body. The Queen fat
Stone comments um so after she heard that, she posted
(35:00):
this on Tumbler. In the book, maybe you are someone
out there will see this and think twice before you
make an offhand comment about a body that belongs to
someone else. Fat, chubby, curvy, overweight, plus size, whatever you
want to call it. Those words don't have to be insults.
I'm not offended by the word fat, even though you
said it like it was the worst thing. Ever. I
(35:20):
don't care what some random person thinks about my body.
I like my body, but it's not the most interesting
part of me. If you judge me based on the
way I'm shaped, then you miss out on how awesome
I am, and I am awesome. I love wearing my
Queen Fire Snow cosplay. I feel strong in it, I
feel powerful, I feel beautiful. You're fleeting superficial judgment won't
change that. I love that. I love that. It could
(35:43):
be hard, it could be hard to hold onto those
feelings when you hear something like that, and when I mean,
a convention is a space where you, especially if you're
a woman, you're going to feel like a lot of judgment.
And it kind of comes from both ways, because it
comes from people who are there who are awesome cosplay,
(36:04):
but like my aunt used to just really make fun
of me for cosplay, So it can be hired to
kind of be positive about yourself and your experience and
how you feel in your cosplay and how you feel
in your body. But I loved that. I thought it
was great. Yeah, it was um. And to go back
to the double standard part, Charlie says in the book,
this is the third interviewer in a row who's asked
(36:25):
Geese an end depth question about his job as an
actor and then asked me about my workout and diet regimen.
I want to tell this guy to ask me something else,
but I don't want to look like a bit or
get in trouble with the studio. So I grinned and
beartt yet again. Yeah, there's that like looking like a
bit worried. And they were also kind of holding over
(36:46):
her that they would cut her out of the sequel. Yeah,
she didn't, she didn't comply. Yeah, so that was throughout
and I liked at the end where Bandy was like, no,
I'm gonna put us to this. They can't do this
without you. Yeah, you're you're at the star, because that
was another thing. Was was the star the first one,
and she was kind of like always behind him, and
in the sequel she's supposed to be the star. Um,
(37:08):
So her kind of coming into her power and realize like, no,
I am the start and you can't just cut me
out right. So that was good to see. And then
as you mentioned, Samantha, this is a lot of ways
a coming of age story, um and I think it
cashed it really well that like kind of we're all
about to go to university. We don't know if we're
(37:29):
all going to go to the same university, what we're
gonna end up doing, we we're gonna end up being,
and that being a very scary and emotional time, Like
I really connected with that. Um. And here's a quote
in movies at college changes everything. Couples break up, people change,
friends stop hanging out, friends stop hanging out. That's what
(37:49):
really scares me. And that's I felt that too. And
it's one of those things where it's natural and it
makes sense, but it's still scare lurry. And I'm somebody
who like, I want to hold on. If I like you,
I do not want to let you go, but I
know it will happen, and I'll try to fight it
as long as I can. But it's just, yeah, some
(38:12):
thing feels an inevitable, like it's gonna change. Yeah. It's
definitely one of those big moments of knowing life has
changed and life is changing. It will never be back
this way again. Uh. I have some five memories. I
honestly don't have any childhood friends but one or two, uh,
any of my high school friends because small towns, conservative towns,
(38:37):
and then you come out and you do your different thing. Um.
But yeah, it's it's a landmark time for an individual
for sure, especially if you've been in this route of
loving high school, finding your group and then growing up
and what does that mean right, Yeah, And like you said,
kind of having this big book and event and feeling
(38:57):
at this convention um and all these conversations about what
the future is going to look like and sort of
embracing that. Yeah. I just I felt like, yeah, that
captured that feeling very very well. Things are changing um.
And then there was also yes, a lot of romance throughout,
and I was like, whoa quick. Yeah. I was like, wow,
(39:21):
we're just jumping in because I immediately like, oh, Taylor
has a crush on Jamie. Jamie as a rush Okay.
My first chapter I was like, Okay, got it and
immediate and then Charlie I think two chapters and I
was like, oh, you're going for a list Okay, I
got it. Moves quick, like the whole books, very very quickly.
It's a build up to it. And then there was, yes,
(39:42):
the whole element of Charlie being asked to be in
a showmance with Reese, which she did turn down, but
everyone was asking, Everyone was asking if they're going to
get back together, if Chase is going to get back together.
He was pushing for them to get back together for
the fame pretty much for the ship. But that was
interesting because we just talked about this um when we
(40:04):
did our kind of Hollywood and Women episode, and this
was sort of an example of how it can be
a negative experience for somebody when your relationship is so
public and you've got fans shipping your relationship, and how
tricky that would be in there. They're eighteen in this book,
so that's pretty young to have to deal with that.
(40:26):
I'm not gonna lie as a forty something at all.
I was like, it feels like I'm not supposed to
read this part because they're so young. Yeah. Interestingly, I
did read a lot of reviews that said, like Reese
was really one dimensional that I thought were interesting. It
was like, oh, he has no reason for being a douche,
But I feel like that was the point was he
(40:47):
was like that guy exists. I promise you that guy.
And I feel like there's plenty of times where women
are like that and no one questions it. Um. It's
like people who are coming to Reese's defense, and I
was like, why why Because he had one moment of
being like I miss you, then he was immediately a
jerk after that. Before that, immediately before the literally stuck
(41:11):
to punch somebody after calling Harror Slot but say like
I miss you. Yeah, yeah, I just thought that was interesting. Yeah,
And I also just want to put it in here
as we wrap up. I love the Taylor and Jamie
went on what Taylor thought was a date and Taylor
didn't know as a date when they were younger, and
I was like, yep, I connect to the business a
(41:35):
lot of people this way. I have a lot of
young ladies. It's true, it's true, but I'm glad. Yeah.
They seemed like a healthy couple and very support of
each other, So I've got it worked out for them eventually.
And I did want to throw it in this final thing.
I saw a marriage proposal at Dragon Con once and
it was incredibly sweet as Pokemon themed and it was
very very very cute. Uh So, Yeah, it was a
(41:56):
very enjoyable read. Um. I had a great time reading it,
and I recommend it. Yes, if you need to have
a moment away from all of the said this in
the world. This was very sweet and uplifting. Was it
was very nerdy, which very nerds. They talked about supernatural
I'm very hapy y. Yes, Yes, it was really really fun.
(42:21):
It was a really fun read. So check it out.
Um and It's always. If you have any suggestions for
what we should read next, please let us know. You
can emails that stuff and your mom Stuff at ihart
me dot com. You can find us on Twitter at
mom Stuff podcast or Instagram and Stuff I Never told
to you. Thanks, It's Always too. Are super producer, Christina,
you are also a hero. I think you would. You
would fit into the nerd realm with us, right Christina,
(42:43):
let us know. Thanks to you for listening stuff under
until the respection of I Heart Radio more podcast from
my Heart Radio. If you can visit the I Heart
Radio ap Apple podcast or if you listen to your
favorite shows
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane.
Never told your production of I Heart Radio. So for
Disability Pride Month, we wanted to do a book about
someone with a disability, and we also want to do
something a bit lighter than we normally cover because the
(00:26):
news has been so heavy lately. So we're covering a
gin wild book, Queens of geek Um, which is the
super heartwarming coming of age young adult love story set
at a NERD convention. I couldn't really I don't know
exactly how to describe it NERD conventions when I came
up with this. It's essentially comic con. But like I
(00:46):
was gonna say't comic talked about fully today? Okay, and
I have seen it her at Dragon Con well, because
I've been to comic con. Um, this seems like a
maybe I'm wrong, This seems like a comic con on steroids.
It seems like comic con selative meets south by Southwest.
(01:07):
That's what Comic Con was, dragon Con on steroids and
Dragon Con is. Okay, here's my opinion, and I'm gonna
already caveat this. You're gonna get a lot of personal
stories from me. Throughout this one because it was like
speaking to me and I have a lot of it.
This was Annie encompassed as a young adult novel. Um. Yeah,
(01:30):
So in my opinion, and I know not everyone will
necessarily agree, Dragon Coron is more about like fans and cosplay.
Comic Con is much more um commercial, so it's got
like bigger usually has bigger names, like bigger announcements. Companies
do big announcement like there's the a zombie maze in
(01:52):
this one. Um, there was something like that when I went.
But the weight is like four hour, like everything to
do is like four a five hour await. It's just
they do talk about that in the book. They do.
They do indeed, and they got their special passes so
they got to go up to the couple of things. Yes, yes,
(02:12):
and you get it right okay, oh yeah, I've got
to get it right. I gotta get it right. Yeah.
I mean, because it's closest to Comic Con. But maybe
it's just because my experience at Comic Con, I didn't
get to do most of this stuff. Maybe that's why
I was kind of like, so your experience would have
been if you had a love interest, you could have
been Taylor, because Taylor just pretty much waited the entire
(02:32):
time and then had an experience with the contest, which
would be your experience. I feel like maybe I'm wrong.
So and they just stood in line and or flirted
with their best friends. Oh yes, oh yes, yeah, I definitely.
As I said, there were so many things where I
was like, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. But also
(02:53):
this is a very it's a nice read because it's like,
it's very very sweet, and that's very lovely, like things
turn out well. But there are, you know, obviously, certain
things where I was like, no, it does a word.
I was so traumatized that I did not expect this
to have a heavy ending. It was nice heavy ending. Everybody,
(03:17):
Um yeah, and it's it's very it's a very quick
and easy read. And it features characters with disabilities, people
who are queer, when of color, and diverse body types.
And originally the author, Jim Wilde, started posting fan fiction
on what Pad in twelve and you can still find
this story, I think, And here's a quote from the
(03:38):
author to all the what patterns out there, thank you,
thank you, thank you. When I posted my first story
to wa Pad in twelve, I had no idea it
would lead to this, but it's safe to say I
wouldn't be here without you. Your excitement over the imaginary
worlds I write about gave me the courage to pursue
writing as a career. I wish I could hook each
and every one of you. And I sent this to
Samantha beforehand in the best way, pass full, because I've
(04:00):
read amazing fan fiction. When I was treating this, I
was like, I wonder if this is a fan fiction
obviously like that she would definitely know what that is.
And then her love for a famous character, fictional famous character,
and here I feel like she knows this love, this love.
So while this bisexual, autistic and has anxiety as well
(04:23):
as a nerd, and a lot of that informed her writing,
and especially the character of Taylor and so obvious, I'm
guessing as she's gotten more famous, she understands the character
of Charlie a little more, especially how she feels like
connected to the fans, which you don't always hear. So
that's interesting to me. So in a Q and A
about writing this book, Wild says, quote, I was angry
(04:44):
with the constant sexism, racism, able is um, homophobia, and
general bigotry I had witnessed both in my life and
online as an autistic, bisexual girl with anxiety. I was
angry that people like me were either represented in media
as burdens or the butt of a joke, and that
if we're represented at all, I was angry that society
wants to put me in a box or stereotyping and
(05:05):
my friends. And I'm still angry about all that. Just
like Taylor, I have trouble verbally expressing my emotions, so
I deal with it the best way I know how writing.
And yeah, it's that very like she put that feeling
on the book for these characters, for sure, Yes, yes, indeed,
And I really really enjoyed it, and it reignited my
my desire to read fan Girl and the resulting fan
(05:29):
fiction novels. She wrote about the fan fiction in fan Girl,
which we talked about in her fan Fiction episode. Okay, yeah, yeah, okay,
so that might be a summer read for me. But okay,
let's talk about the plot. This book follows a group
of three friends during one weekend at Supercon, which they
call their Holy Grail of Conventions, which she essentially Comic Con,
(05:53):
but more The friends in question are Taylor, Charlie, and Jamie,
who are about to graduate high school in Australia, and
it has an alternating p O V structure between Taylor
and Charlie. Taylor is autistic, anxious, and quote curvy and
a huge fan of the Queen Firestone series, while Charlie
is a Chinese Australian content creator and actor who recently
(06:14):
had a big break in a movie UM and also
a very public breakup with her co star Reese Ryan
after he cheated on her and humulated her UM. She
is signed on to be in the sequel of her
breakout film, Although Rising, which is a zombie film, and
through that she got all of them passes to Supercon
which Supercon is in l A, by the way, and
(06:35):
the friends, all of whom are planning on moving to
l A after graduating, traveled to the US for the convention.
While the atmosphere overwhelms her, Taylor is determined to meet
her hero, Skyler Atkins, who wrote the Queens of Firestone
books that transformed Taylor's life and helped her deal with
her anxiety and undiagnosed autism. She was recently diagnosed when
(06:56):
the book was written. UM. She proudly her self made
cosplay and waits a line to meet Skyler, believing that
if she can do this, if she can meet her,
she can do anything. But Skyler has to leave abruptly devastated.
Her best friend and very obvious crush, Jamie tries to
convince her to enter a sort of Biggest Fan contest
(07:16):
where the prize is hanging out with Skyler and going
to the after party with her, and also the premier
um of the next movie, but Taylor has a panic
attack at just the thought of it. Meanwhile, Charlie is
doing a lot of publicity and learns from our publicist
Mandy that her ex is coming to Supergne when he
wasn't originally supposed to, and the studio wants her to
pretend they are back together. Charlie refuses, but agrees to
(07:37):
pretend they're on good terms. She meets the creator and
actors she's long idealized, named Alyssa, and there's an immediate
spot between them. They have lunch problems to do a
YouTube collapse together yes Um. Taylor and Jamie explore the
convention and Jamie runs into a girl she'd met waiting
in line to see skyler named Josie, and Josie shows
her the comic that she made about an autistic Superhue
(08:00):
Euro and they have a very vulnerable moment together and
Jessie really inspires Taylor UM and Taylor, by the way,
is posting about her experience on Tumblr this whole time. UM.
Taylor joins a group of Queen Firestone Cause players and
meets Britanna, who convinces her to participate in the Ultimate
Fan Competition. Charlie and Alyssa do their collab together and
(08:20):
end up kissing at the end. UM. Charlie says she's
going to edit that bit out, and Alyssa asked Charlie
out to dinner. Charlie agrees, but because she's scarred by
the very public nature of her relationship and break up
with Reese UM, the fans shipped them as Chase and
pretty much everyone keeps asking Charlie if they're going to
get back together. Charlie wants to have their date privately.
(08:41):
Alyssa is hurt by this, not wanting to be a secret,
but ultimately agrees after Charlie explains, and she takes Charlie
to the closed con Arcade where they play games have
a picnic make out, and then go back to the
hotel to have sex. Um later we find out that
Alissa's ex girlfriend wouldn't go public with her even after
almost two years, pretended like she didn't know Alyssa when
(09:02):
they saw each other for the first time at a
friend's funeral after they broke up, UM and she was
with another woman. Um also listens super into stand in Astronauts. Yeah,
you know, I am very confused. And maybe it's because
at that point I didn't understand. I don't know why.
I don't think they have a descriptor of Alyssa. I'm
guessing she's a black character. Was that the reason why
(09:26):
the ex girlfriend was trying to hide her because obviously
she wasn't afraid to come out as gay because she
had a girlfriend and still didn't acknowledge her at that point.
Who was famous at this point? Right, Yes, I believe.
So I was very confused. Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm
not sure it could be anyway. This is one of
the small whole great book. I just was confused by that.
(09:49):
Uh So, Taylor almost backs out of the first part
of the Supervan Contest, which is the cosplay contest, but Brianna,
the woman she met earlier, promises her they'll stick together. Um.
Taylor misses her mark of what makes the final cut
to the second part of the competition, the trivia contest,
as does Brianna. Charlie invites Taylor and Jamie to sort
of oppress event at a zombie maze, and Charlie's movie
(10:12):
was a zombie movie, which I didn't realize until later
on either. I was like, oh, okay, um with Reese
and Charlie and Reese have a fight while Taylor and
Jabie kiss and make out. However, Taylor panics and spirals
thinking about what this means, was it a one time
thing or she doesn't know how to be a girlfriend?
And Charlie and her habit talk that laid to Taylor
(10:33):
and Jabie reconciling and conversating and realizing, oh, this is
what's happening, communicating and then kissing some more. And then
Taylor goes to the trivia contest and overhears another contestant
calling her Queen fat Stone, so she retreats to the bathroom,
writes a tumbler post about it, and overhears Brianna having
a panic attack and helps Brienna get through this panic attack,
(10:56):
and Brianna reveals she had a stutter and is thinking
of dropping out of the contest, and Taylor shares that
she herself was terrified at the cosplay contest and would
have left if not for Brianna. Both realized that perhaps
confidence isn't what they think it is or doesn't look
like they think it does, and go out to compete.
It comes down to Brianna and Taylor, but Taylor gets
(11:17):
tongue tied and Brianna wins um though both are very
supportive each other supportive from I love that throughout the
book because I really was on at the very beginning.
I was like, oh, no, here we go. This girl's
gonna be famous, and then she's gonna shun her friends,
and then ever happens. But you know, within that scene,
what I really loved is, yes, this girl, these two
(11:38):
girls are talking about her, and one of the girls
call her fat Stone. The other girl is mad and
late and says, how dare you that is so mate
and walks off. That is rare of a scene, and
I like that she did it that way. They were
so because we're so used to seeing Like I was
ready for it, and it was like a relief, it
(11:59):
really was. But yeah, it was genuinely quick scene and
I know the focus was that she was called bad,
but I love that part of the girl who's like
not having it. She's like, you're me, why would you
say that? And walk off and I'm like, wow, that's
not how I saw that playing out. So nice wild um.
While Charlie was watching the contest being supportive, and she
(12:20):
found out Mandy Row had accidentally posted the unedited video
of her and Alista kissing, and now the world knows
and they're trending. Charlie has to go to a damage
control meeting with Reese, who, by the way, has already
insulted Taylor, insulted Charlie and then pushed Jamie sucker punched
Jamie at a party earlier, and it's so over it.
(12:42):
She tells Mandy that after this, she refuses to do
any press with Reese anymore, and Mandy Mandy backs her
up and gives her extra passes to the Supercon after
party as a way of saying I'm sorry, And then
Charlie goes to tell Alyssa what happened and they have
a serious dtr do you know what. I love that
(13:03):
DTR defining the relationship that leads Charlie confused and in tears. Yes,
and then yeah, I know because I was writing this
out and I was like, oh, I think I could
use that term. Samantha taught me. Thank you. I'm learning,
I'm learning. UM. Taylor and Jamie have a DTR of
their own when they get second and elevator together, and
(13:23):
they're both honest with their worries and hopes for the
future and their relationship and their history. UM. They open
up about what they love about each other, and Taylor
describes her experience with autism and anxiety. They make out
until the elevator starts working again. They reunite with Charlie,
who reveals she's dealing with fear over her relationship with Alyssa,
and Taylor gives her a pep talk. Charlie decides on
(13:45):
a grand romantic gesture and at the after party plays
the video, proving to Alyssa that she's serious and doesn't
care what anyone else thinks. Alyssa runs to find her
in the arcade and they make out some more, and
then Brianna andwered uses Taylor to Skyler uh they're hero um.
It was very kind and down to earth and blushes
(14:07):
that Taylor's praise and Taylor is over the mir room.
Taylor then introduced the Skyler to Jamie and Josie and
later with Charlie an Alissa. They party till the sun
rises and yeah, I do love that they and Wild
ends it on Taylor doing a tumbler post and then
it cuts it. This was a whole and I don't know,
(14:41):
we're gonna talk about it, but it wasn't overall sweet.
Take at something that I have had these moments and
I don't know about you. I know, actually I do
know about you, uh that like there are events that
stick in your memory as being some of the best
moments of your life and wishing that you could just
hold onto it and rasp it forever. And then then
(15:02):
ending in the photo booth taking all of these memorable
pictures and memorable moments, but also having like Charlie and
Taylor really honing on each other, because it also made
me sad. I like, oh, would you'll leave? Hot school
is everything? Especially if she goes on the startom, especially
if Charlie goes onto her stardom, Like yeah, it's gonna
(15:24):
change it is gonna change it. Yeah, And that was
a big thing throughout the book. Um, and we are
going to talk about that. But um, there were so
many relatable things throughout this and one of them was, yeah,
like when Taylor gets the convention, she's like, it's gonna
be so fun. We're not gonna worry about anything. It's
only going to be fun and trying so hard to
(15:47):
make it fun. And then all of these things are
like upsetting or don't go the way you think they
do or yeah and all that, and it was I
felt that very much, but it was lovely that in
the end it worked out. It was right. It was
nice to see that perfect little ending. But I feel like, again,
(16:09):
there are those moments that will just like you have
that emotion. You might not even remember everything that happened,
you just know you have that heartwarming feeling about that time.
And that's what this moment felt like, especially because it
was like a week maybe span that they did all
of these giant, lovely things that really cultivated the character.
(16:30):
Love that Jamie's character was so kind and understanding. Also
in my head, I'm like, huh, that's not always gonna happen.
Either like I'm just such a negative person sometimes with this,
but I think it was really sweet and it was
it was nice, like, oh, this is a good y
are like, there's definitely a lot of like hy A
novels are dystopian and sad and tramatic that I'm like,
(16:53):
this is good. This is good. It was good because,
like I said, I had the same thing where I
kept waiting for the like shoot to fall, the bad
thing to happen, and there was plenty of like drama
and things went wrong, but nothing ever went seriously wrong,
and the friends like start together and we're supportive of
each other, and it was very very nice. It was
(17:17):
a good change from what we did. But I also
like everything about it is her way of describing the
anxiety and the autism, the mind, how her mind plays
out during these times. I felt so relatable, too relatable.
I feel like I've had these conversations when I talked
to people about a d h D and all of
these things, and I'm like, I need you to stop
(17:38):
reading my mail, thank you very much, um, But yeah,
like it was really an amazing perspective. I think she
did it very realistically, felt right on. I did have
a moment of panic at one of those chapters. I
listened to this on audible. So, by the way, if
you have a chance, I know reading the book is
classic and I love it. But hearing them in like
(17:59):
the with the all Australian accident and understanding where they're
coming from, and then like the voices that they do,
they found perfect characters. I felt like to really bring
this to life in a different way than if I
had just been reading it and hearing him the voices
in my head. But like at one point where she
was describing one of the things that she was going
through in the packet forth, I almost had a panic
attack myself because it was too real and to one
(18:21):
point that I was like, okay, so I need you
to stop doing that because I like my I was like,
I'm starting to put me at the point that i
can't breathe. I'm I'm gonna get to that point. Um.
So it was a little too real, I will give
you that. But that made it even better as as
because when she calmed down, I calmed out with her,
(18:42):
like like but oh that was a minute. Almost triggered
me into having a little bit of an anxiety moment
as too, but but like it was that on point
in what she was saying and how she was describing
it as well as like just being able to play
it out, but also normalizing the relationship ships and normalizing
um this having conversations with each other and try to
(19:04):
walk through things instead of just in your head. Also, yeah,
she does a great job and normalizing the cute romances
that are happening without it feeling like it's you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
there's definitely As I said, they are the tumbler posts throughout,
(19:26):
so there's a couple of different writing styles throughout. But
when she does sort of her panic or anxiety moments,
they are written sort of differently and they do take
you out and they they make you feel it like, yeah,
I had moments to you where I was like, wow,
I'm really this sounds like something I've experienced. Um. Yes, yes,
(19:47):
So we did want to read a quote from the
book about that most people think of anxiety as panic attacks.
That's not entirely accurate. I haven't had a panic attack
in years. I started to recognize the signs and learned
what I needed to do to stop it from spiraling.
I learned how to internalize it to avoid public embarrassment.
Anxiety is an attack that explodes out of me. It's
not a volcano that lies dormant until it's triggered by
(20:09):
an earth shattering event. It's a constant companion, like a
blow fire that gets into the house in the middle
of summer, flying around and around you. Hear it buzzing,
but you can't see it, can't capture it, can't let
it out. My anxiety is invisible to others, but often
it's the focal point of my mind. Everything that happens
on a day to day basis is filtered through a
lens colored by anxiety. That nervousness that makes your palm
(20:31):
sweat and your heart race before you get up and
make a speech in front of an audience. That's what
I feel in normal conversation at a dinner table. Are
just thinking about having a conversation at a dinner table.
Um and yeah, going on, And she says, everything feels
like I'm on stage, a spotlight on me, all lies
on me, watching judging like I'm one second away from
total disaster. It's invisible, it's irrational, it's never ending. I
(20:54):
could be standing there smiling and chatting like everything is
totally fine, while secretly wanting to scream and probably and
run away. No one would ever know, and in my mind,
no one can hear me scream. I hide it because
I know it's not understood or acceptable, because I'm not
understood or acceptable. So here I am hiding it, standing
in a toilet stall, trying to remember how to breathe. Yes, yes,
(21:18):
And this this is one that I feel like I
really connected to. And we've been talking about this through
the pandemic. We were just talking about it, like for me,
it's gotten worse where it does when I'm talking to somebody.
In my head there's like panic, like, oh God, what
are you gonna stay next? What are you gonna do?
What are you gonna do? And I think I even
talked about it recently about how I went out to
a restaurant and I just felt like everyone was looking
(21:40):
at me. And I know they weren't, but I just
was like so uncomfortable with my body. It's like, oh
everyone can see me. Am I being awkward or I'm
being so awkward. It's just it does kind of consume
a lot of your energy and attention. Yeah, yeah, And I,
as I said at the tap, I do you have
a lot of specific convention stories to a lot of this,
(22:05):
And one was I remember very clearly there's a time
I was waiting in line for something just as Catwoman,
and I told my ex that I felt like I
was one second way from having a major breakdown most
of the time, and that I hated having people look
at me. And he was so shocked, UM, and he
was like, well, why the hell do you do this? Then? Like,
what is this? I would never have said that about you.
(22:28):
It's like, well, it's smack that I put on. What
I'm telling you, The outward doesn't necessarily much once ago
going on inside. UM. In a weird way though, like
for me, wearing a costume sometimes makes it better because
(22:48):
I feel like someone else and it can go reverse
is As I've talked about at length, people can be
creepy at conventions, but in general, if people are leaving
me all un sometimes I can actually feel better in costume.
Something else that was mentioned, what were things like PTSD
(23:09):
and autism? As we said, UM, and there's like a
pretty great scene where Josie meets Taylor and they have
that talk UM, and Josie says, medication and therapy are great.
I tried natural therapies to yoga, acupunture, medication, aroma therapy,
and a lot of it helped me relax. But it
wasn't until I joined a few fandoms online and started
(23:29):
taking illustrations seriously that my anxiety really started to become
easier to manage. It sounds so cliched, but once I
started doing more things that made me happy, it made
everything else a little easier to deal with. I hold
my palms up. Wait are you saying that geeking out
helps you cope? She nods, Like nothing else. And this
is something we've talked about too. This is this is
(23:50):
true for me UM, like using fan fiction and media.
I love to get through trauma. UM. And we've talked
about that. Uh, how for some people that have that
is really beneficial and for some people like finding your
online community of other fans has been really really helpful
(24:12):
and and fan fiction is a place where you can
do that. There are other places too, but yeah, just
like art or writing or whatever, it is kind of
helping work work through things. And that's something in my therapy,
and my therapist is always like, well, clearly writing is
your thing, So like just as much as you can write,
um do it? Uh. And yeah, as I've said, my
(24:35):
fan fiction, my Quarantine Baby, I mean it's like five hundred,
six hundred pages. Now that's just therapy for me. And
then I started playing D and D as I said,
to to deal with PTSD. So yeah, that just really
hit home to me. I know that's not for everyone,
and it doesn't work for everyone, but it is something
that for me, I was like, yes, yes, keeping busy.
(25:01):
You know a lot of people like that. Um. And
then there's also the queer representation in this book, and
perhaps specifically bisexual representation, which we talk about. It doesn't
you don't see a lot of that, um, but the
character Charlie identifies as bisexual. Uh, And you do see
a lot of what I'm assuming because Wild the author,
also identifies as bisexual. You see a lot of the
(25:23):
like really comments about bisexuality people often get when they
say they're bisexual. For example, when Reese says he doesn't
believe it's real when Charlie tells him she's bisexual, and
then he asked her, have you ever been with a girl?
And Charlie has that kind of insecurity of she's never
(25:46):
been with a girl. And this is a quote from
Charlie about her sexuality. The moment I first realized I'm
into more than one gender was a quiet one. It
was sudden and almost anticlimactic. So it's not a particularly
exciting story. I was fourteen, and by that time I'd
had more than one crush on a girl, mostly movie stars.
But I never interpreted my feelings as a crush. I
(26:08):
just thought I admired them a whole lot. It didn't
occur to me that those feelings were similar to the
way I feel about guys I liked. I saw a
post on tumbler or with the title you won't believe
these actresses are bisexual or something stupid like that. I
didn't really know what it meant at the time, so
I googled it. It didn't take long to recognize myself
in many of the articles I found, and that was it.
But I've never actually been with a girl before. I've
(26:30):
never even flirted with a girl before. This is also new,
and I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into this.
Are we having lunch's friends or could this be something more? Yeah,
and I related to that too, because I that's essentially
what happened to me. I didn't know I bi sexuality
was that thing, and then I learned what it was,
and I was like, oh, yeah, I did have a
crush on both Scully and Molder. Yeah, so out of curiosity,
(26:54):
kind of out of left field. But the tumbler still exist. Yes, yes,
it is really really big in the fan fiction world.
But in fan fiction a lot of times the author
will put at the bottom, like here's my tumbler, and
that's where you can find like artwork that they've done,
our gifts that they've made, our challenges that they do,
(27:15):
where they're like, it's what was one recently, it's a
Darth Vader Luke exchange. But anyway, then everybody's writing all that.
That's the day I texted you and I was like,
so much fan fiction is updating books happening because somebody
posted on tumbler a challenge and everyone was like, oh, okay,
so yeah, I kind of forgot because one of the
things I kept thinking was this was based five years ago,
(27:39):
and like, I don't even they mentioned TikTok, do they?
I don't know, I don't think so. And I'm like, wow,
like it's already kind of changed, the like mediums have
changed since then. I don't like how wondering what it's
gonna look like this book is gonna look like it
even ten years. But I did wonder that because I
was like, it is Tumbler still around? Because I can't
remember still around? That's how I old I am. You're
(28:03):
welcome vines, aren't. I know they're not. I got I
got that part, you know, thank you? I now know?
Uh you know again, Yeah, we talked about this earlier.
I was excited to see the true friendships that happened,
and then women supporting women and no one taking anybody
down except that one nasty girl, which you know, I'm like,
she definitely had to put that in. But outside of that, really,
(28:24):
even again, that one girl who talked to the other
girl and the other girls defending Taylor was like, what
that was lovely to see and it was nice to
see throughout because they really cared and loved for each other. Uh.
The fact that Charlie was thinking about not want to
leave out her friends, um thinking about how much she
loved her fans, how many they were like, it was
(28:45):
really nice to see. There's another part about that. I
rub a hand over the back of my head, trying
to figure out how to explain it, Like sometimes I
don't think I'm being a girl right to have an undercut,
and we're clothes I've bought from the boys section, and
I don't wear makeup or do my nails, watch horror
movies and play video games, burp and swear, and don't
talk about my feelings or any of that crap. I'm
like Sandra Bullock and Miss Congeniality only before the makeover.
(29:10):
So Charlie shrugs, Gracy heart rocks. Besides, there's no way
to be a girl, Tay. You don't need to fit
yourself into what society tells us a girl should be.
Girls can be whoever they want, whether that's an ass kicking,
sarcastic crimes offing FBI agent or a funny, gorgeous, witty
beauty queen or both at the same time. And she
swings and arm around me and pulls me in. Are
(29:32):
you happy the way you are? Are you comfortable? Do
you feel like yourself? The corner of my mouth lifts
into a half smile. Yes, yes, and yes, then that's
all that matters. Get anything else? Yeah, yeah, um, and
I really liked that too, because m Taylor and Charlie
are kind of opposites in a lot of ways um
(29:53):
and how they look and what they like, but they're
just like still so close and they know, he said,
each other so well, so they know how to like
pump each other up. Yeah, they know how to uplift
each other. Um. And I like there's a scene where
Charlie is talking about like her sex life and Taylor
(30:14):
is like, oh, you know, I've never done it, and
it's like very sex positive both ways, like neither one
of them shames each other are is ashamed of it um,
which I thought was really refreshing too. Yeah. Um. And
then again like we've talked about this a lot, but
it was really nice that they met so many supportive
people at this convention. You had Josie helping Taylor, Brianna
(30:37):
helping Taylor, then Taylor helping Brianna UM, and then Brianna
helping Taylor get like it's just yeah, and then Mandy like,
even though she made that mistake, she wasn't demonized at all.
And then Charlie UM being so supportive of Taylor and
Taylor being so supportive Charlie UM almost all the women
are incredibly beautifully supportive of each other, um, and are
(30:59):
they for each other and are being truly happy for
each other. Because I thought there was gonna be some
because Charlie kept getting pulled away, so I thought there
was gonna be some like resentment, and there never was.
It was all like, no, go get it, you go
to do what you have to do, we'll be here,
we'll hang out after or whatever. That was nice. Yeah, yeah,
(31:21):
And uh, I know this is, you know, quite a
nice portrait. But I do have people who have met
people at conventions and they're like some of their best friends,
and they were very supportive of each other. And I
do have like a set of convention friends and it's nice,
like every yeah, every time, I like, oh I gotta
meet up with this person and this person this person.
To be fair, you have a little drama every now
(31:42):
and I but still overall pretty good. It's still fun.
You have the best. But I'm just saying, do yeah,
I love the story. I mean, I've got I've got
my like core group of friends that are like all
year round friends, and they'll they kind of interpret things
from me. They're like this guy, no, he's just trying
(32:06):
to get a date with you or something not not
that one. So that's I got. I got my backup
crew there and I'm there for them and we always
have a good time. Yeah. Yeah, and it's exhausting now
(32:30):
that Yeah, that was one of my favorite parts of
the book. Is that so much nerddom and so much phantom.
There's so many references. There's cosplay, there's fan fiction, there's
Star Wars, the Last of Us, Supernatural, um, and it
is really accurate depiction I think of of cosplay like
I was like when they would be like, you know,
you see this character next to this character, and this
(32:51):
character next to this character. That's one of my favorite things.
So you can tell that Wild was very familiar with
convention scene. There was some elements of toxic fandom. It
wasn't too much, but there was. And then yeah, the
whole meeting or heroes thing. I was so on edge
about that. When she finally met Skyler Atkins, I was like, oh,
what if she's terrible and you know, might not be
(33:14):
the most realistic thing, but she was lovely and that
was nice. Um at the beginning when the ill advised
plan where Jamie's like, well, let's just chase her down
the hall. Um. I accidentally had a moment like that
once with Summer Cloud, who I wasn't trying to meet
or anything, but I was. There's a Walk of Fame
(33:35):
at Dragon Con where you can get people's autographs, and
I just walked and I didn't realize it was closed. Um,
and she was in. There was like security guards, and
I almost got some serious trouble. But I was just like, oh, no,
no, no no, no, I didn't know. I didn't know. Back up,
I swear I'm not a creep. There's a lot of
stuff about the power of entertainment and the impact it
(33:55):
can have on people's lives. Um. You know, Taylor is saying,
like this transform my life, something me get through anxiety.
I did really love when Charlie's signing the autographs and
she sees all the people online and it's like wants
to be there and sign things for them and meet them,
like really loving the fans. I love that. In Charlie's story,
(34:16):
there is a lot of stuff about the double standard
for women in entertainment, Like in interviews, she's constantly getting
asked about how she stays in shape, about her ex
running in skinny jeans was something she had to do.
Running in heels was something she had to do for
the movie. She was told by the director to run
sex year and meanwhile Reese is getting like serious questions
(34:37):
about how he acts. And then Reese himself accuses Taylor. Essentially,
he says like, you'll have to sleep your way to
the top and be less of a bitch both. So
there was that. Then there was the fat phobia element,
Taylor feeling uncomfortable in her own body. The Queen fat
Stone comments um so after she heard that, she posted
(35:00):
this on Tumbler. In the book, maybe you are someone
out there will see this and think twice before you
make an offhand comment about a body that belongs to
someone else. Fat, chubby, curvy, overweight, plus size, whatever you
want to call it. Those words don't have to be insults.
I'm not offended by the word fat, even though you
said it like it was the worst thing. Ever. I
(35:20):
don't care what some random person thinks about my body.
I like my body, but it's not the most interesting
part of me. If you judge me based on the
way I'm shaped, then you miss out on how awesome
I am, and I am awesome. I love wearing my
Queen Fire Snow cosplay. I feel strong in it, I
feel powerful, I feel beautiful. You're fleeting superficial judgment won't
change that. I love that. I love that. It could
(35:43):
be hard, it could be hard to hold onto those
feelings when you hear something like that, and when I mean,
a convention is a space where you, especially if you're
a woman, you're going to feel like a lot of judgment.
And it kind of comes from both ways, because it
comes from people who are there who are awesome cosplay,
(36:04):
but like my aunt used to just really make fun
of me for cosplay, So it can be hired to
kind of be positive about yourself and your experience and
how you feel in your cosplay and how you feel
in your body. But I loved that. I thought it
was great. Yeah, it was um. And to go back
to the double standard part, Charlie says in the book,
this is the third interviewer in a row who's asked
(36:25):
Geese an end depth question about his job as an
actor and then asked me about my workout and diet regimen.
I want to tell this guy to ask me something else,
but I don't want to look like a bit or
get in trouble with the studio. So I grinned and
beartt yet again. Yeah, there's that like looking like a
bit worried. And they were also kind of holding over
(36:46):
her that they would cut her out of the sequel. Yeah,
she didn't, she didn't comply. Yeah, so that was throughout
and I liked at the end where Bandy was like, no,
I'm gonna put us to this. They can't do this
without you. Yeah, you're you're at the star, because that
was another thing. Was was the star the first one,
and she was kind of like always behind him, and
in the sequel she's supposed to be the star. Um,
(37:08):
So her kind of coming into her power and realize like, no,
I am the start and you can't just cut me
out right. So that was good to see. And then
as you mentioned, Samantha, this is a lot of ways
a coming of age story, um and I think it
cashed it really well that like kind of we're all
about to go to university. We don't know if we're
(37:29):
all going to go to the same university, what we're
gonna end up doing, we we're gonna end up being,
and that being a very scary and emotional time, Like
I really connected with that. Um. And here's a quote
in movies at college changes everything. Couples break up, people change,
friends stop hanging out, friends stop hanging out. That's what
(37:49):
really scares me. And that's I felt that too. And
it's one of those things where it's natural and it
makes sense, but it's still scare lurry. And I'm somebody
who like, I want to hold on. If I like you,
I do not want to let you go, but I
know it will happen, and I'll try to fight it
as long as I can. But it's just, yeah, some
(38:12):
thing feels an inevitable, like it's gonna change. Yeah. It's
definitely one of those big moments of knowing life has
changed and life is changing. It will never be back
this way again. Uh. I have some five memories. I
honestly don't have any childhood friends but one or two, uh,
any of my high school friends because small towns, conservative towns,
(38:37):
and then you come out and you do your different thing. Um.
But yeah, it's it's a landmark time for an individual
for sure, especially if you've been in this route of
loving high school, finding your group and then growing up
and what does that mean right, Yeah, And like you said,
kind of having this big book and event and feeling
(38:57):
at this convention um and all these conversations about what
the future is going to look like and sort of
embracing that. Yeah. I just I felt like, yeah, that
captured that feeling very very well. Things are changing um.
And then there was also yes, a lot of romance throughout,
and I was like, whoa quick. Yeah. I was like, wow,
(39:21):
we're just jumping in because I immediately like, oh, Taylor
has a crush on Jamie. Jamie as a rush Okay.
My first chapter I was like, Okay, got it and
immediate and then Charlie I think two chapters and I
was like, oh, you're going for a list Okay, I
got it. Moves quick, like the whole books, very very quickly.
It's a build up to it. And then there was, yes,
(39:42):
the whole element of Charlie being asked to be in
a showmance with Reese, which she did turn down, but
everyone was asking, Everyone was asking if they're going to
get back together, if Chase is going to get back together.
He was pushing for them to get back together for
the fame pretty much for the ship. But that was
interesting because we just talked about this um when we
(40:04):
did our kind of Hollywood and Women episode, and this
was sort of an example of how it can be
a negative experience for somebody when your relationship is so
public and you've got fans shipping your relationship, and how
tricky that would be in there. They're eighteen in this book,
so that's pretty young to have to deal with that.
(40:26):
I'm not gonna lie as a forty something at all.
I was like, it feels like I'm not supposed to
read this part because they're so young. Yeah. Interestingly, I
did read a lot of reviews that said, like Reese
was really one dimensional that I thought were interesting. It
was like, oh, he has no reason for being a douche,
But I feel like that was the point was he
(40:47):
was like that guy exists. I promise you that guy.
And I feel like there's plenty of times where women
are like that and no one questions it. Um. It's
like people who are coming to Reese's defense, and I
was like, why why Because he had one moment of
being like I miss you, then he was immediately a
jerk after that. Before that, immediately before the literally stuck
(41:11):
to punch somebody after calling Harror Slot but say like
I miss you. Yeah, yeah, I just thought that was interesting. Yeah,
And I also just want to put it in here
as we wrap up. I love the Taylor and Jamie
went on what Taylor thought was a date and Taylor
didn't know as a date when they were younger, and
I was like, yep, I connect to the business a
(41:35):
lot of people this way. I have a lot of
young ladies. It's true, it's true, but I'm glad. Yeah.
They seemed like a healthy couple and very support of
each other, So I've got it worked out for them eventually.
And I did want to throw it in this final thing.
I saw a marriage proposal at Dragon Con once and
it was incredibly sweet as Pokemon themed and it was
very very very cute. Uh So, Yeah, it was a
(41:56):
very enjoyable read. Um. I had a great time reading it,
and I recommend it. Yes, if you need to have
a moment away from all of the said this in
the world. This was very sweet and uplifting. Was it
was very nerdy, which very nerds. They talked about supernatural
I'm very hapy y. Yes, Yes, it was really really fun.
(42:21):
It was a really fun read. So check it out.
Um and It's always. If you have any suggestions for
what we should read next, please let us know. You
can emails that stuff and your mom Stuff at ihart
me dot com. You can find us on Twitter at
mom Stuff podcast or Instagram and Stuff I Never told
to you. Thanks, It's Always too. Are super producer, Christina,
you are also a hero. I think you would. You
would fit into the nerd realm with us, right Christina,
(42:43):
let us know. Thanks to you for listening stuff under
until the respection of I Heart Radio more podcast from
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Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.