March 11, 2016 • 33 mins
Confidence is not a problem for U.S. women's soccer star Abby Wambach; the gender wage gap is. Recently retired, the gold medalist and top international scorer is shifting her focus from heading goals to tackling gender equality, and she's not going to let anything get in her way. In this third ChangeMAKERS installment, Cristen and Caroline talk with Wambach about learning from others, leading a team and the forces that motivate her to change the world.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from how Supports
dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen
and I'm Caroline, and to celebrate Women's History Month, which
is March, by the way, Yes, and also to explore
(00:24):
questions that we hear directly from stuff Mom Never Told
You listeners and also just from ourselves about how to
become female trailblazers, gender equality instigators, and fearless rabble rousers.
We're presenting this month long mini series we're calling change Makers,
and before we get to today's fabulous and inspiring change maker,
(00:47):
we want to give you a little bit of background
about how this series came to be. Yeah, let's talk
about the makers and change makers, because all of this
was inspired by our trip to a women's empowerment conference
hosted by Makers, which is a platform from a O. L.
Glorious dynam Is. It's godmother of Sorts and Makers is
(01:08):
the largest video collection of women's stories. And at this
fantastic conference, Caroline and I had the opportunity to chat
with a few of those makers who are personally driven
to change your environments and ultimately change the world hashtag
in BG. But we realize how change making con seme intimidating.
I mean, how do you start? What if you aren't
(01:30):
a celebrity or a corporate superstar. What are the transformative
tools that we all have, regardless of where we are
in life, regardless of whether we're podcasters or not. Well,
thankfully we have resources like Makers that showcase all of
these female role models whose stories and insights demonstrate not
only what incredible societal impacts women can create even today,
(01:54):
but also how each of us can find our voices
and our authentic paths towards success for today and for
the future. So with that, let's get to change making. So, Caroline,
the theme for this mini series episode is Motivation Matters. Yeah,
we're talking to the incredibly motivational Abby Wambach, and I
(02:17):
find her to be incredibly motivating because I don't know
when the last time was that I heard someone who
was just so determined to make waves. Yeah, I mean,
she is motivating, but she's also one of the most
motivated people I think I've ever met. And the combination
of her motivation and the confidence, the sheer confidence that
(02:41):
she has to back it up is something I think
that we all can learn from because, for those of
you who don't know, Abby Wambach is one of the
best soccer players in the sports history. She scored more
goals in international games and any other player, male or female.
(03:02):
She's incredible, and she recently retired, and she has this
massive platform and the kind of platform and connections that
seem so out of reach for folks like us every
day folks. Um. But when we talk to her, she
also offered so much practical insight into the things that
(03:27):
you and I can be doing every day to kind
of become our own Abbey Wombox. You know what I mean? Well, yeah,
and I mean Abby Wamba. Part of how she became
Abby Wambach has to do with her upbringing. She's the
youngest of seven kids, and so she really pushed herself
not only to just keep up with her siblings, but
(03:48):
to be able to get any attention in that huge
group of people. Yeah, as the youngest of five kids,
I could relate to this. Um. She talks about how
she has a bunch of brothers. I think she has
four brothers, and she would kind of have to endure harassment,
sibling harassment from them. They would often play hockey and
(04:10):
she would be the keeper and they would just like
pelt the hockey pucks with them. They would also pull
pranks on her. But she had this drive growing up
that resonated completely with my experience as the baby in
the family, where she never wanted to win just because
they led her. She always wanted to win fair and square,
(04:31):
and so that competitive edge was there in her from
the get go, and not surprisingly, that translated right to
the soccer field, where she started playing when she was
a kid and was, you know, immediately at the top
of her game growing up. And I think it was
in high school that she really started developing her signature
style of heading the ball. She's known for scoring via heading,
(04:55):
which as someone who played soccer for a couple of
years that I grew up with soccer players all in
my family, that just amazed me, because I mean, I'm
just not great at heating the ball. To be able
to do what the kind of force that she does,
you literally have to have. You have to be um
hard headed, hard headed, yes, thank you. I was like strong, will, No,
(05:17):
that's not right, hard headed. And thanks to that hard
headedness and that incredible innate ability. In two thousand and four,
she was further motivated in Athens, Greece to lead the
U S Women's Olympic soccer team to an overtime gold
medal victory against Brazil, And four years later she was
motivated again to heal from a fractured tibia and fibula,
(05:41):
and that sidelined her at the Beijing Olympics and she
had to sort of learn to be able to sit
back and let others take the lead. And for those
of you who didn't tune into that Women's World Cup,
in the semifinals, the US was playing Brazil and they
were down, and Abby Wombach and her credible heading skills
(06:01):
and just general skills was able to score and tie
things up, sending the game into overtime, and then I
think it went into penalty kicks, and of course the
US one. They were later defeated by Japan. But that
US Brazil game was just stunning to watch. Yeah, I mean,
And in just a year later, she was named FIFA's
Women's Player of the Year, so I mean, which is
(06:23):
honestly no surprise because of all of her internal drive,
all of that motivation that led her up to that
point and ever since announcing her retirement in October Wambach
has a new and even boulder motivation. UM. She's talked
about how her life was so shaped by Title nine UM,
(06:46):
which a lot of people might not realize that Title
nine was actually not intended to even the playing field
for girls and women's sports. But because of that outcome,
you know, an abled her to go to high school
and play soccer, and then go to college and obviously
continue playing and have access to soccer or for our
(07:11):
European listeners, to football, I'm having access to those kinds
of sports. And so now she's been through the system,
she was at the top of the professional sport, and
now that she's retired, she's described her next big thing
that she's clearly still developing as titled ten. Yeah, she
(07:32):
has had the chance to meet now that she's retired.
I mean, I don't know if she's actually sat down
or or like rested for a minute, but she's had
the chance to meet all sorts of executives, politicians, just
leaders in this country and in the world who have
helped sort of open her eyes to things like the
gender gap. And she even visited the White House and
(07:55):
when Obama met her, part of what he told her
was that playing like a girl means playing like a badass.
Obama spoken like the father of two daughters. Caroline. I'm
sure that meeting President Obama was quite a thrill, but
I mean, I would think that her opportunity to meet
a couple of lady podcasters was, I mean, so far
(08:17):
the highlight of just I'm gonna just say everything. You know, Yeah,
I can see how we we can really play a
role in her continued motivation. Absolutely congred urban pushing Wombach
to be even more incredible. But you know, we we
loved the chance to talk to her. She's a fantastic
woman who's again and Kristin already said this, but I
(08:40):
think it bears repeating. Her confidence is is out of
this world. It's it is really inspirational to see a
woman who just absolutely has and I'm I'm apologizing for
this this pun, but she's got her eye on the ball.
I know, I know you love it, Carolyne, I'd say
that pun was a thanks. Um. Well, so yeah, let's
(09:03):
let's jump into our conversation with Abby and and find
out kind of what's on her mind as she enters retirement.
Still getting used to saying former and right now I
am figuring out how exactly I'm going to change the world,
because that's what I'm gonna do. That's who I am.
I don't understand why people wouldn't want to positively influence
(09:28):
our culture. Are our daughters, our mothers, our brothers, our sons,
um and I think that I have a unique opportunity
and a platform to be able to do that in
a really progressive way that stands and uh and so
it's going to be an interesting couple of years figuring
it all out. But that's that's the beauty of life,
(09:49):
you know, trying to figure it all out. So, in
addition to her massive platform, which by the way, now
includes her own Barbie Doll, I mean, I feel like,
you know you've made it and you have your own
Barbie Doll Caroline. Quick question. Also, I don't want to
get too far away from womback, but if you had
your own Barbie Doll, Like, what would be the Caroline
Barbie Doll accessories? Uh, let's see, she would be carrying
(10:14):
a corgy and a sandwich. Yeah, I think that would
be Corgy in a sandwich. Like that is separate hands
though you can't, like, I mean, unless it's like a
really well behaved corgy that could put the sandwich on
its head silence it. Obviously, if you do it in
the same hand, corgy is gonna eat the sandwich. But
(10:34):
that would kind of be cute to watch. Well, that's
a Barbie doll Caroline. I, um, I will pre order
when it comes out. Um. Yeah, I considered to be
part of it's Lady Power, Lady Power sandwich. But back
to a womback. Um, she has this lofty goal, obviously,
she wants to create this thing that she's calling Title ten,
(10:57):
which is essentially attacking the issue of the gender wage gap,
which is all around the world alive and not so well.
And in order to do that, it's going to take
a lot of coalition building, obviously, and so I wanted
to ask her about how team building and also serving
(11:18):
as the captain of her team on the soccer field
will translate into starting this movement, because I mean, she
definitely has the individual qualities of a leader. When she
was talking to a O l CEO Tim Armstrong, for instance, um,
he asked for like three words that people who knew
her would use to describe her, and without missing a beat,
(11:41):
she just said loud, fearless, and a winner. Any little
wombach in my life. But I think, yeah, I think
we all need a little Wombach in our lives. And
I like to though that when she talks about team
building and pulling people together, like she she's very clear
that we need all sorts people represented. She's been quoted
(12:01):
as saying, you know, we need men at the table too,
we need people of all different backgrounds. And so when
we asked her about what she was going to do
in terms of using her team building experience to try
to change the world, she gave us some great insight.
But she also corrected me on my youth of the
(12:22):
word try. You have to effectively find out what motivates
it in each individual and at the same time still
adhering to the collective goals in which you set forth
as a collective. And and it's not easy by by
any stretch. It's it's very difficult to um to motivate
(12:45):
and find what motivates people. It's a hard thing, you know.
I know parents are around the world struggle to do
that themselves. But the truth is is the beauty of
it all is in that form of motivating or trying
to find out what motivates people. All you are really
hoping to do is for them to learn about themselves
so they don't need external motivation, so that they can
(13:08):
motivate themselves to be their best, best self. And to
correct you, UM, I'm not wanting to change the world.
I'm going to change the world. And I think that
that's a very very unique and important justification because I
will not let myself fail at that because I think
it's too important now. In terms of failure, Wombach has
(13:30):
experienced it personally obviously losing games, sometime getting injured and
not being able to go to the Beijing Olympics UM.
And she's also experienced it on the on the receiving
end in terms of the failure of professional soccer to
level the gendered playing field. And even before she retired,
(13:53):
Wombach was and obviously still is extremely vocal, especially on
pay equity for female players, because the disparity between what
uh male professional soccer player will make versus a female
professional soccer player UM is so stark. If we just
(14:15):
look at the World Cup payouts. For instance, the total
Women's World Cup payout is fifteen million dollars, which nothing
to sneeze at. But the total payout for the men's
World Cup five hundred seventies six million dollars. That's a
that's a difference. That is a difference, I think according
to our math skills, Caroline, that is a big difference. Approximately,
(14:42):
that's approximately, give or take a giant difference, a giant gap, yes,
the giant pay gap. Um yeah, I mean when you
look at what's going on with women's soccer compared to men's,
it is a stark difference. Like you said, um, a
first division women's cocker player makes ninety eight point six
(15:03):
percent less than comparable professional men's players. And this kind
of gender discrimination is even reflected in the subpart artificial
turf of the women's World Cup finalists had to play on.
And there's even been a gender discrimination lawsuit brought against
FIFA to get the women on natural grass. And that
(15:25):
might seem like a quibble of oh, well, who cares
whether you're playing on AstroTurf or natural grass, And the
answer is it changes everything. Well, not to mention that
there was that one recent incident where they showed up
to play on turf not grass, and not only was
it not up to par, but I mean there were
rocks everywhere Scoff's holes. They couldn't play on it. Yeah,
(15:46):
I mean it sounds like those kinds of conditions are
just flat out dangerous. And in speaking again to h
A O l CEO Tim Armstrong at the Maker's Conference,
Wombox said it zero dollars to treat somebody equally, And
that fires me up. Why is this still happening? I'm
piste off. Yeah, I mean, she's really zeroing in on
(16:09):
this pay gap issue in her retirement. I mean, we
while we keep referring to it us her retirement, but
it doesn't sound like she's slowing down or heading to
Boca or anything. You know. She she's talked about the
need for real equality for all people and has even
pointed out something that you know, we've sort of touched
on in a lot of Sminty episodes, which is the
(16:29):
idea that people are brought up thinking women are inferior.
And so she's really kind of putting her flag in
the ground, saying this is my issue, and I'm going
to tackle this, and we want to get her perspective
to on managing failure, especially as you're working towards such
a lofty goal because the thing is closing that infuriating
(16:50):
gender wage gap. Also requires confronting gendered notions of female
perfection and learning, especially as girls and women who are
socialized to avoid risk taking and fear to understand how
to manage that in a healthier and and kind of
(17:11):
more successful way in the long term. Well, I think
that that's a really great point, especially because now that
we're fighting for positions of power, whether it's the oval
office or positions on executive boards, whether it's the token
one female in the executive boardroom. UM, women are expected
to be perfect and fit this perfect quote unquote system,
(17:37):
this this image I think that men have created for us.
My my personal belief is the more times you fail,
the more you learn. UM. It's not easy because because
um knowing what society like believes in in terms of
um perfectionism. From a female's perspective, you we all have
(17:59):
high standards, you know, uh, And I think that that's
a positive, but it also can hurt us in some
ways because when you do fail, it's never about what
you fail or how often you feel. It's always always
about what you do when you're when the failure happens,
how how you react, that's your character, that's who you are.
(18:20):
You know, when when you fail one time, you learn,
it's experience. You turn the page and you move on.
And the faster you can move on, the quicker the
learning will happen, the quicker that experience will set in,
and the more respect you will get. Because the truth
is is most guys out there, they've been punched in
the face of recess right. Where they get their respect
(18:41):
is if they get up right. Where they get their
respect is how they get up. Where they grow their
character is what they do after when after getting punched
in the face metaphorically speaking of course, literally, I don't
want to right playground violence. We actually I think recess
is now gone, So bring recess back to the school now.
(19:09):
Of course, getting back up is easier when you have
a good support network and arguably Wombach has had a
large one since childhood. You know, we mentioned her six
siblings already, but we really wanted to know what relationships
have been critical for getting her to this milestone in
her career and life. Well, that's a huge thing. You are.
(19:29):
You are, You are the environment you surround yourself with,
and you know, as you grow older, and for me
as I've gotten a little bit more famous quote unquote famous.
I wouldn't even call myself famous, but you know, I've
been able to meet amazing people, amazing people that that
have changed the world, right, and so I just picked
their brains. I put myself in environments where, um, I
(19:52):
can learn as much as I can. But my support
system is is surely my friends and family. Um. You know,
I'm so lucky to have the people that I've had
surround me over the last four months, you know, even
since the World Cup ended. Um, it's been a journey.
It's been a it's been a real journey. Because when
you've done something for thirty years and then you kind
(20:12):
of strip away from that, you know, you wonder who
you are because identified so much of myself as a
soccer player, and to shed that a soccer player's skin
and now recreate and re grow, so to speak, the
skin of you know this older more wise uh more
pretty Uh woman. Uh, it's been it's been daunting, and
(20:37):
so you need the people around you that that that
can mirror for you, right. UM, I don't need somebody
to tell me what to do, I need somebody to
mirror me. So that I can see what I'm doing
and and from that mirror I can then make those
decisions moving forward to to be more positive and happy.
And the thing is, Wombach is so motivated and so
(21:00):
extremely confident, but she's also logical. I mean, she realizes
that everything that she's saying is a bold declaration, but
it is inspiring to hear her breakdown how that motivation
factor and all of its individual components can ignite the
Wombach level of passion that all of us can practice,
(21:22):
regardless of say, our athletic ability or history making talent.
We don't have to all have our own Barbies as
much as Carolina really do want a Caroline Barbie as
soon as possible. Um, but we don't have to be
at that level to start practicing these things and fueling
our own motivation for the long term. Yeah. Again, the
(21:46):
confidence and single mindedness is really inspiring from Abby. She
doesn't settle. This is not a woman who's settled, she
told Tim Armstrong Intermaker's Interview. I know, no matter what
I do, I'm going to be good at. But that's
not good enough. Apparently that's not good enough, she says,
I want to be the best. It's going to be
changing the world and fighting free quality so everyone has
(22:08):
equal opportunities. Small goals, small goals, small goals. But I
do I love it. Like you said, she really does
break down how we can all stay motivated, whether it
is to become a world a top of the world
soccer player, or whether it's just to sort of motivate
yourself moment to moment throughout your day. Carolin, do you
(22:30):
think that, um, starting now, if I really fuel up
my Wambach level passion and get on that soccer field,
I can make it. Yeah, I'm sure it's just like
muscle memory, right, you know, totally starting to head the
ball again. Well, you know, while I was playing soccer
though as a kid, I was also taking ballet, so
I don't know which muscle memory will be revived. Okay,
(22:51):
Well you don't do the pirouetting on the field, Okay,
to save the plea is for later, which is a
model that we should all live. So let's hear more
from Womba. You know, I've played I played soccer for
thirty years. So the last five or six weeks, Um,
(23:12):
I've been meeting with a lot of people. I've been
doing things like that, uh and and like this. So
for the last couple of weeks, I've kind of just
turned turned my brain off. I've had things here and
there that I've done, and it's been really interesting because
if you're out there and you struggle to find any
(23:32):
motivation or you struggle to figure out what your next
move or next step is going to be, that's okay
because I've been doing that also, you know, and people
look at me as this agspiring athlete who overcome overcame
challenges and now it is going to take on and
spearhead this change the world equality thing. Um. But you know,
(23:54):
I'm I'm a human being too. I'm not like, I'm
not like looking at myself every night in the mirror,
motivating myself like come on, Addy, you can do this tomorrow.
I don't do that. You know. I'm a person, and
I have fears and questions and curiosities not just about
the world, but about myself. And I think that that's
so important. Too often people immortalized and and and put
(24:18):
idols and famous people on pedestals that we don't deserve.
I may be tall, I may be a little seem
over most women and men, but the reality for me
is I'm I'm human and I'm I'm scared in moments too,
and it's not easy to, um, to sidestep some of
(24:39):
that fear and to go after something that you really
truly believe in. Because that's my my belief is if
you're passionate about something enough, if you believe in yourself enough,
then those steps that you take towards that passion, towards
that goal will will happen. And sometimes it's scary to
take the first step, but I promised that second and
third and fourth step will be so worth it. UM,
(25:01):
take it from me. I've I've gotten up, I've I've failed,
I've stayed down a little bit longer than maybe I
should have. But all that stuff is good. It's like
it's real, deep seated good stuff that you will carry
with you for the rest of your life. And you know,
even now I'm talking and I'm motivating myself to get
excited about working out later today. Um, and that's a
(25:22):
very trivial thing, right, I'm talking about changing the world,
But then some people have to scale that back. I
don't have the platform Abby has, Like, how does this
relate to me? Listen, you have to motivate yourself every day,
to eat well, to sleep enough hours, to exercise, and
those are really really important factors at being a healthy, successful,
happy human being. Otherwise everybody would be happy, right, everybody
(25:45):
would have a perfect, beautiful life. Not everybody does because
it takes work, It takes it takes failure, it takes
you know, success, it takes all the different things. And
once you bunch bundle that all up in a little package,
hopefully you're older and and and eiser and and you
have and you have a good and happy life. And
it seems like a lot of what underlies Abby wombox
(26:09):
success and her confidence and motivation moving forward is a
lot of self awareness too. I mean, yes, she has
achieved so much. She's a world class female athlete with
few qualms were calling out gender disparities, you know, But
she's also an LGBT athlete who's been so comfortable with
herself and her orientation, to the point that when she
(26:32):
and her partner got married and there was obviously some
media buzz over it, she didn't really understand because she's like,
there was never really like a coming out moment for me.
I've always just really been myself um and even the
way that she describes herself like she she's clearly able
(26:52):
to recognize where she might have some faults, but also
how that feeds into her strengths. Yeah, she admits that
she is. As she put it, this is these are
her words, not ours. I'm a control freak, know it all,
But she says, I'm sneaky about it. I think I
know what I'm doing, but I'm lucky I have the
ability to step back. It's important again, as we've talked about,
(27:15):
to have that self awareness, and she really considers her
compassion and her drive to understand others experiences as two
of her biggest strengths. So all of this is happening,
you know while really the world is watching, and there
are so many girls, especially out there, who see Abby
(27:35):
Wambach as a role model. And I can only guess
that as she continues her work and doesn't plan on,
you know, stepping back from her public visibility at all,
the role modeling will only continue. So we wanted to
talk to her about the responsibility that she feels regarding
role modeling and kind of what impression she hopes she's
(27:56):
leaving with everyone on the number one thing, Um I
hope to role model is that you can be yourself.
You can be excellent at what you do. You can
win championships, you can break records, you can be literally
the best in the world at what you do, but
none of that will mean you're a good person. You
(28:19):
have to you have to earn that every single day,
and it's how you treat the people amid being the best,
the best goal score winning championships. So I always like
to bring myself down to ground zero and remind myself
that being a good person is the most important quality
(28:40):
that you can possibly have. And if you can have
those qualities within all of the confines of having a successful,
happy life, then then you've got You've kind of figured
it all out, you know what I mean. And it's
not always easy, you know. Sometimes people who hounk their
horns in New York City really annoy me. Um, and
(29:02):
I get angry quickly. Um. But the truth is is
that every single day is another opportunity to prove what
kind of person you are. And and I try to
prove that I'm a good person every single day. I'm
not successful at it. You know. Some days I I
am too lazy, some days I'm too crazy. I don't
even know what, but um, every every single day is
another opportunity to prove your worth and and who you
(29:24):
are and who you want to be. Well, thanks you
advanced for changing the world. Yeah. Well, Caroline, I gotta
say that it's comforting to know that Abby Wanpac has
those those kinds of emotional ups and downs in a
way of getting angry clearly about issues like maybe not
(29:49):
being paid as much as her male counterparts and just
an equality that she sees within society at large, but
that she can channel it, and that we can channel
that kind of anger into two powerful things, into entire movements. Yeah.
And I think if we all could have even an
(30:11):
ounce of Abbey's single minded confidence and determination, you know,
maybe we could all feel better about our opportunities that
we have and seizing our opportunities to change the world
around us. Yeah. I mean, in terms of the theme
of motivation matters, it seems like after talking to Abbey, yes,
(30:31):
there's that threat of motivation throughout her whole life that
has led her to this point, but there's also the
connection between self awareness and motivation, So it seems like
self aware motivation matters. Yeah, being able to recognize your
weaknesses or failings, and instead of feeling bad about them
(30:52):
or letting them trip you up, just saying I'm just
going to compensate for them in other ways, or you know,
whereas they might be viewed as negative, is just viewing
them almost as a natural part of yourself that you know,
you're just going to almost work around them. Yeah. And
and also to the factor of being motivated, yes, for yourself,
(31:12):
warts and all, but also being motivated for others. I mean,
it really seems like it was a transformational experience for
her to have to take a step back in two
thousand and eight when she was injured and watch her
team and being motivated for them, and clearly that same
it's it seems like she's only spreading that farther because
(31:35):
I feel like Caroline, she's motivated for all of us,
all of our like girls and women, and that's I mean,
that's what a leader is. Someone who's so driven, but
not only driven to benefit themselves, but driven to make
changes for the better in the lives of others. Caroline,
I really feel like we are now introducing Abbi Wanbach
presidential candidate. It sounds like a good idea. Maybe she
(31:59):
should ben ple that in she's talking about all these
world leaders. Yeah, just go ahead and hop on hop
on in that mix. Yeah, and then that hots to well.
Thanks so much to Abby Wombach for talking to us
and now listeners. We'd love to hear from you, maybe
about your experience if you're female athlete, or if she's
one of your role models, or the kinds of gender
(32:21):
inequalities that you've experienced and what motivates you. Mom's stuff
at how stuff works dot com is where you can
send us your emails, and you can also tweet us
at mom Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook and for
links to all of our blogs, videos and podcasts. So
you can learn all of the stuff I Never told you.
(32:43):
Head on over to stuff Mom Never told You dot
com for more almost thousands of works dot com. Four
Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from how Supports
dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen
and I'm Caroline, and to celebrate Women's History Month, which
is March, by the way, Yes, and also to explore
(00:24):
questions that we hear directly from stuff Mom Never Told
You listeners and also just from ourselves about how to
become female trailblazers, gender equality instigators, and fearless rabble rousers.
We're presenting this month long mini series we're calling change Makers,
and before we get to today's fabulous and inspiring change maker,
(00:47):
we want to give you a little bit of background
about how this series came to be. Yeah, let's talk
about the makers and change makers, because all of this
was inspired by our trip to a women's empowerment conference
hosted by Makers, which is a platform from a O. L.
Glorious dynam Is. It's godmother of Sorts and Makers is
(01:08):
the largest video collection of women's stories. And at this
fantastic conference, Caroline and I had the opportunity to chat
with a few of those makers who are personally driven
to change your environments and ultimately change the world hashtag
in BG. But we realize how change making con seme intimidating.
I mean, how do you start? What if you aren't
(01:30):
a celebrity or a corporate superstar. What are the transformative
tools that we all have, regardless of where we are
in life, regardless of whether we're podcasters or not. Well,
thankfully we have resources like Makers that showcase all of
these female role models whose stories and insights demonstrate not
only what incredible societal impacts women can create even today,
(01:54):
but also how each of us can find our voices
and our authentic paths towards success for today and for
the future. So with that, let's get to change making. So, Caroline,
the theme for this mini series episode is Motivation Matters. Yeah,
we're talking to the incredibly motivational Abby Wambach, and I
(02:17):
find her to be incredibly motivating because I don't know
when the last time was that I heard someone who
was just so determined to make waves. Yeah, I mean,
she is motivating, but she's also one of the most
motivated people I think I've ever met. And the combination
of her motivation and the confidence, the sheer confidence that
(02:41):
she has to back it up is something I think
that we all can learn from because, for those of
you who don't know, Abby Wambach is one of the
best soccer players in the sports history. She scored more
goals in international games and any other player, male or female.
(03:02):
She's incredible, and she recently retired, and she has this
massive platform and the kind of platform and connections that
seem so out of reach for folks like us every
day folks. Um. But when we talk to her, she
also offered so much practical insight into the things that
(03:27):
you and I can be doing every day to kind
of become our own Abbey Wombox. You know what I mean? Well, yeah,
and I mean Abby Wamba. Part of how she became
Abby Wambach has to do with her upbringing. She's the
youngest of seven kids, and so she really pushed herself
not only to just keep up with her siblings, but
(03:48):
to be able to get any attention in that huge
group of people. Yeah, as the youngest of five kids,
I could relate to this. Um. She talks about how
she has a bunch of brothers. I think she has
four brothers, and she would kind of have to endure harassment,
sibling harassment from them. They would often play hockey and
(04:10):
she would be the keeper and they would just like
pelt the hockey pucks with them. They would also pull
pranks on her. But she had this drive growing up
that resonated completely with my experience as the baby in
the family, where she never wanted to win just because
they led her. She always wanted to win fair and square,
(04:31):
and so that competitive edge was there in her from
the get go, and not surprisingly, that translated right to
the soccer field, where she started playing when she was
a kid and was, you know, immediately at the top
of her game growing up. And I think it was
in high school that she really started developing her signature
style of heading the ball. She's known for scoring via heading,
(04:55):
which as someone who played soccer for a couple of
years that I grew up with soccer players all in
my family, that just amazed me, because I mean, I'm
just not great at heating the ball. To be able
to do what the kind of force that she does,
you literally have to have. You have to be um
hard headed, hard headed, yes, thank you. I was like strong, will, No,
(05:17):
that's not right, hard headed. And thanks to that hard
headedness and that incredible innate ability. In two thousand and four,
she was further motivated in Athens, Greece to lead the
U S Women's Olympic soccer team to an overtime gold
medal victory against Brazil, And four years later she was
motivated again to heal from a fractured tibia and fibula,
(05:41):
and that sidelined her at the Beijing Olympics and she
had to sort of learn to be able to sit
back and let others take the lead. And for those
of you who didn't tune into that Women's World Cup,
in the semifinals, the US was playing Brazil and they
were down, and Abby Wombach and her credible heading skills
(06:01):
and just general skills was able to score and tie
things up, sending the game into overtime, and then I
think it went into penalty kicks, and of course the
US one. They were later defeated by Japan. But that
US Brazil game was just stunning to watch. Yeah, I mean,
And in just a year later, she was named FIFA's
Women's Player of the Year, so I mean, which is
(06:23):
honestly no surprise because of all of her internal drive,
all of that motivation that led her up to that
point and ever since announcing her retirement in October Wambach
has a new and even boulder motivation. UM. She's talked
about how her life was so shaped by Title nine UM,
(06:46):
which a lot of people might not realize that Title
nine was actually not intended to even the playing field
for girls and women's sports. But because of that outcome,
you know, an abled her to go to high school
and play soccer, and then go to college and obviously
continue playing and have access to soccer or for our
(07:11):
European listeners, to football, I'm having access to those kinds
of sports. And so now she's been through the system,
she was at the top of the professional sport, and
now that she's retired, she's described her next big thing
that she's clearly still developing as titled ten. Yeah, she
(07:32):
has had the chance to meet now that she's retired.
I mean, I don't know if she's actually sat down
or or like rested for a minute, but she's had
the chance to meet all sorts of executives, politicians, just
leaders in this country and in the world who have
helped sort of open her eyes to things like the
gender gap. And she even visited the White House and
(07:55):
when Obama met her, part of what he told her
was that playing like a girl means playing like a badass.
Obama spoken like the father of two daughters. Caroline. I'm
sure that meeting President Obama was quite a thrill, but
I mean, I would think that her opportunity to meet
a couple of lady podcasters was, I mean, so far
(08:17):
the highlight of just I'm gonna just say everything. You know, Yeah,
I can see how we we can really play a
role in her continued motivation. Absolutely congred urban pushing Wombach
to be even more incredible. But you know, we we
loved the chance to talk to her. She's a fantastic
woman who's again and Kristin already said this, but I
(08:40):
think it bears repeating. Her confidence is is out of
this world. It's it is really inspirational to see a
woman who just absolutely has and I'm I'm apologizing for
this this pun, but she's got her eye on the ball.
I know, I know you love it, Carolyne, I'd say
that pun was a thanks. Um. Well, so yeah, let's
(09:03):
let's jump into our conversation with Abby and and find
out kind of what's on her mind as she enters retirement.
Still getting used to saying former and right now I
am figuring out how exactly I'm going to change the world,
because that's what I'm gonna do. That's who I am.
I don't understand why people wouldn't want to positively influence
(09:28):
our culture. Are our daughters, our mothers, our brothers, our sons,
um and I think that I have a unique opportunity
and a platform to be able to do that in
a really progressive way that stands and uh and so
it's going to be an interesting couple of years figuring
it all out. But that's that's the beauty of life,
(09:49):
you know, trying to figure it all out. So, in
addition to her massive platform, which by the way, now
includes her own Barbie Doll, I mean, I feel like,
you know you've made it and you have your own
Barbie Doll Caroline. Quick question. Also, I don't want to
get too far away from womback, but if you had
your own Barbie Doll, Like, what would be the Caroline
Barbie Doll accessories? Uh, let's see, she would be carrying
(10:14):
a corgy and a sandwich. Yeah, I think that would
be Corgy in a sandwich. Like that is separate hands
though you can't, like, I mean, unless it's like a
really well behaved corgy that could put the sandwich on
its head silence it. Obviously, if you do it in
the same hand, corgy is gonna eat the sandwich. But
(10:34):
that would kind of be cute to watch. Well, that's
a Barbie doll Caroline. I, um, I will pre order
when it comes out. Um. Yeah, I considered to be
part of it's Lady Power, Lady Power sandwich. But back
to a womback. Um, she has this lofty goal, obviously,
she wants to create this thing that she's calling Title ten,
(10:57):
which is essentially attacking the issue of the gender wage gap,
which is all around the world alive and not so well.
And in order to do that, it's going to take
a lot of coalition building, obviously, and so I wanted
to ask her about how team building and also serving
(11:18):
as the captain of her team on the soccer field
will translate into starting this movement, because I mean, she
definitely has the individual qualities of a leader. When she
was talking to a O l CEO Tim Armstrong, for instance, um,
he asked for like three words that people who knew
her would use to describe her, and without missing a beat,
(11:41):
she just said loud, fearless, and a winner. Any little
wombach in my life. But I think, yeah, I think
we all need a little Wombach in our lives. And
I like to though that when she talks about team
building and pulling people together, like she she's very clear
that we need all sorts people represented. She's been quoted
(12:01):
as saying, you know, we need men at the table too,
we need people of all different backgrounds. And so when
we asked her about what she was going to do
in terms of using her team building experience to try
to change the world, she gave us some great insight.
But she also corrected me on my youth of the
(12:22):
word try. You have to effectively find out what motivates
it in each individual and at the same time still
adhering to the collective goals in which you set forth
as a collective. And and it's not easy by by
any stretch. It's it's very difficult to um to motivate
(12:45):
and find what motivates people. It's a hard thing, you know.
I know parents are around the world struggle to do
that themselves. But the truth is is the beauty of
it all is in that form of motivating or trying
to find out what motivates people. All you are really
hoping to do is for them to learn about themselves
so they don't need external motivation, so that they can
(13:08):
motivate themselves to be their best, best self. And to
correct you, UM, I'm not wanting to change the world.
I'm going to change the world. And I think that
that's a very very unique and important justification because I
will not let myself fail at that because I think
it's too important now. In terms of failure, Wombach has
(13:30):
experienced it personally obviously losing games, sometime getting injured and
not being able to go to the Beijing Olympics UM.
And she's also experienced it on the on the receiving
end in terms of the failure of professional soccer to
level the gendered playing field. And even before she retired,
(13:53):
Wombach was and obviously still is extremely vocal, especially on
pay equity for female players, because the disparity between what
uh male professional soccer player will make versus a female
professional soccer player UM is so stark. If we just
(14:15):
look at the World Cup payouts. For instance, the total
Women's World Cup payout is fifteen million dollars, which nothing
to sneeze at. But the total payout for the men's
World Cup five hundred seventies six million dollars. That's a
that's a difference. That is a difference, I think according
to our math skills, Caroline, that is a big difference. Approximately,
(14:42):
that's approximately, give or take a giant difference, a giant gap, yes,
the giant pay gap. Um yeah, I mean when you
look at what's going on with women's soccer compared to men's,
it is a stark difference. Like you said, um, a
first division women's cocker player makes ninety eight point six
(15:03):
percent less than comparable professional men's players. And this kind
of gender discrimination is even reflected in the subpart artificial
turf of the women's World Cup finalists had to play on.
And there's even been a gender discrimination lawsuit brought against
FIFA to get the women on natural grass. And that
(15:25):
might seem like a quibble of oh, well, who cares
whether you're playing on AstroTurf or natural grass, And the
answer is it changes everything. Well, not to mention that
there was that one recent incident where they showed up
to play on turf not grass, and not only was
it not up to par, but I mean there were
rocks everywhere Scoff's holes. They couldn't play on it. Yeah,
(15:46):
I mean it sounds like those kinds of conditions are
just flat out dangerous. And in speaking again to h
A O l CEO Tim Armstrong at the Maker's Conference,
Wombox said it zero dollars to treat somebody equally, And
that fires me up. Why is this still happening? I'm
piste off. Yeah, I mean, she's really zeroing in on
(16:09):
this pay gap issue in her retirement. I mean, we
while we keep referring to it us her retirement, but
it doesn't sound like she's slowing down or heading to
Boca or anything. You know. She she's talked about the
need for real equality for all people and has even
pointed out something that you know, we've sort of touched
on in a lot of Sminty episodes, which is the
(16:29):
idea that people are brought up thinking women are inferior.
And so she's really kind of putting her flag in
the ground, saying this is my issue, and I'm going
to tackle this, and we want to get her perspective
to on managing failure, especially as you're working towards such
a lofty goal because the thing is closing that infuriating
(16:50):
gender wage gap. Also requires confronting gendered notions of female
perfection and learning, especially as girls and women who are
socialized to avoid risk taking and fear to understand how
to manage that in a healthier and and kind of
(17:11):
more successful way in the long term. Well, I think
that that's a really great point, especially because now that
we're fighting for positions of power, whether it's the oval
office or positions on executive boards, whether it's the token
one female in the executive boardroom. UM, women are expected
to be perfect and fit this perfect quote unquote system,
(17:37):
this this image I think that men have created for us.
My my personal belief is the more times you fail,
the more you learn. UM. It's not easy because because
um knowing what society like believes in in terms of
um perfectionism. From a female's perspective, you we all have
(17:59):
high standards, you know, uh, And I think that that's
a positive, but it also can hurt us in some
ways because when you do fail, it's never about what
you fail or how often you feel. It's always always
about what you do when you're when the failure happens,
how how you react, that's your character, that's who you are.
(18:20):
You know, when when you fail one time, you learn,
it's experience. You turn the page and you move on.
And the faster you can move on, the quicker the
learning will happen, the quicker that experience will set in,
and the more respect you will get. Because the truth
is is most guys out there, they've been punched in
the face of recess right. Where they get their respect
(18:41):
is if they get up right. Where they get their
respect is how they get up. Where they grow their
character is what they do after when after getting punched
in the face metaphorically speaking of course, literally, I don't
want to right playground violence. We actually I think recess
is now gone, So bring recess back to the school now.
(19:09):
Of course, getting back up is easier when you have
a good support network and arguably Wombach has had a
large one since childhood. You know, we mentioned her six
siblings already, but we really wanted to know what relationships
have been critical for getting her to this milestone in
her career and life. Well, that's a huge thing. You are.
(19:29):
You are, You are the environment you surround yourself with,
and you know, as you grow older, and for me
as I've gotten a little bit more famous quote unquote famous.
I wouldn't even call myself famous, but you know, I've
been able to meet amazing people, amazing people that that
have changed the world, right, and so I just picked
their brains. I put myself in environments where, um, I
(19:52):
can learn as much as I can. But my support
system is is surely my friends and family. Um. You know,
I'm so lucky to have the people that I've had
surround me over the last four months, you know, even
since the World Cup ended. Um, it's been a journey.
It's been a it's been a real journey. Because when
you've done something for thirty years and then you kind
(20:12):
of strip away from that, you know, you wonder who
you are because identified so much of myself as a
soccer player, and to shed that a soccer player's skin
and now recreate and re grow, so to speak, the
skin of you know this older more wise uh more
pretty Uh woman. Uh, it's been it's been daunting, and
(20:37):
so you need the people around you that that that
can mirror for you, right. UM, I don't need somebody
to tell me what to do, I need somebody to
mirror me. So that I can see what I'm doing
and and from that mirror I can then make those
decisions moving forward to to be more positive and happy.
And the thing is, Wombach is so motivated and so
(21:00):
extremely confident, but she's also logical. I mean, she realizes
that everything that she's saying is a bold declaration, but
it is inspiring to hear her breakdown how that motivation
factor and all of its individual components can ignite the
Wombach level of passion that all of us can practice,
(21:22):
regardless of say, our athletic ability or history making talent.
We don't have to all have our own Barbies as
much as Carolina really do want a Caroline Barbie as
soon as possible. Um, but we don't have to be
at that level to start practicing these things and fueling
our own motivation for the long term. Yeah. Again, the
(21:46):
confidence and single mindedness is really inspiring from Abby. She
doesn't settle. This is not a woman who's settled, she
told Tim Armstrong Intermaker's Interview. I know, no matter what
I do, I'm going to be good at. But that's
not good enough. Apparently that's not good enough, she says,
I want to be the best. It's going to be
changing the world and fighting free quality so everyone has
(22:08):
equal opportunities. Small goals, small goals, small goals. But I
do I love it. Like you said, she really does
break down how we can all stay motivated, whether it
is to become a world a top of the world
soccer player, or whether it's just to sort of motivate
yourself moment to moment throughout your day. Carolin, do you
(22:30):
think that, um, starting now, if I really fuel up
my Wambach level passion and get on that soccer field,
I can make it. Yeah, I'm sure it's just like
muscle memory, right, you know, totally starting to head the
ball again. Well, you know, while I was playing soccer
though as a kid, I was also taking ballet, so
I don't know which muscle memory will be revived. Okay,
(22:51):
Well you don't do the pirouetting on the field, Okay,
to save the plea is for later, which is a
model that we should all live. So let's hear more
from Womba. You know, I've played I played soccer for
thirty years. So the last five or six weeks, Um,
(23:12):
I've been meeting with a lot of people. I've been
doing things like that, uh and and like this. So
for the last couple of weeks, I've kind of just
turned turned my brain off. I've had things here and
there that I've done, and it's been really interesting because
if you're out there and you struggle to find any
(23:32):
motivation or you struggle to figure out what your next
move or next step is going to be, that's okay
because I've been doing that also, you know, and people
look at me as this agspiring athlete who overcome overcame
challenges and now it is going to take on and
spearhead this change the world equality thing. Um. But you know,
(23:54):
I'm I'm a human being too. I'm not like, I'm
not like looking at myself every night in the mirror,
motivating myself like come on, Addy, you can do this tomorrow.
I don't do that. You know. I'm a person, and
I have fears and questions and curiosities not just about
the world, but about myself. And I think that that's
so important. Too often people immortalized and and and put
(24:18):
idols and famous people on pedestals that we don't deserve.
I may be tall, I may be a little seem
over most women and men, but the reality for me
is I'm I'm human and I'm I'm scared in moments too,
and it's not easy to, um, to sidestep some of
(24:39):
that fear and to go after something that you really
truly believe in. Because that's my my belief is if
you're passionate about something enough, if you believe in yourself enough,
then those steps that you take towards that passion, towards
that goal will will happen. And sometimes it's scary to
take the first step, but I promised that second and
third and fourth step will be so worth it. UM,
(25:01):
take it from me. I've I've gotten up, I've I've failed,
I've stayed down a little bit longer than maybe I
should have. But all that stuff is good. It's like
it's real, deep seated good stuff that you will carry
with you for the rest of your life. And you know,
even now I'm talking and I'm motivating myself to get
excited about working out later today. Um, and that's a
(25:22):
very trivial thing, right, I'm talking about changing the world,
But then some people have to scale that back. I
don't have the platform Abby has, Like, how does this
relate to me? Listen, you have to motivate yourself every day,
to eat well, to sleep enough hours, to exercise, and
those are really really important factors at being a healthy, successful,
happy human being. Otherwise everybody would be happy, right, everybody
(25:45):
would have a perfect, beautiful life. Not everybody does because
it takes work, It takes it takes failure, it takes
you know, success, it takes all the different things. And
once you bunch bundle that all up in a little package,
hopefully you're older and and and eiser and and you
have and you have a good and happy life. And
it seems like a lot of what underlies Abby wombox
(26:09):
success and her confidence and motivation moving forward is a
lot of self awareness too. I mean, yes, she has
achieved so much. She's a world class female athlete with
few qualms were calling out gender disparities, you know, But
she's also an LGBT athlete who's been so comfortable with
herself and her orientation, to the point that when she
(26:32):
and her partner got married and there was obviously some
media buzz over it, she didn't really understand because she's like,
there was never really like a coming out moment for me.
I've always just really been myself um and even the
way that she describes herself like she she's clearly able
(26:52):
to recognize where she might have some faults, but also
how that feeds into her strengths. Yeah, she admits that
she is. As she put it, this is these are
her words, not ours. I'm a control freak, know it all,
But she says, I'm sneaky about it. I think I
know what I'm doing, but I'm lucky I have the
ability to step back. It's important again, as we've talked about,
(27:15):
to have that self awareness, and she really considers her
compassion and her drive to understand others experiences as two
of her biggest strengths. So all of this is happening,
you know while really the world is watching, and there
are so many girls, especially out there, who see Abby
(27:35):
Wambach as a role model. And I can only guess
that as she continues her work and doesn't plan on,
you know, stepping back from her public visibility at all,
the role modeling will only continue. So we wanted to
talk to her about the responsibility that she feels regarding
role modeling and kind of what impression she hopes she's
(27:56):
leaving with everyone on the number one thing, Um I
hope to role model is that you can be yourself.
You can be excellent at what you do. You can
win championships, you can break records, you can be literally
the best in the world at what you do, but
none of that will mean you're a good person. You
(28:19):
have to you have to earn that every single day,
and it's how you treat the people amid being the best,
the best goal score winning championships. So I always like
to bring myself down to ground zero and remind myself
that being a good person is the most important quality
(28:40):
that you can possibly have. And if you can have
those qualities within all of the confines of having a successful,
happy life, then then you've got You've kind of figured
it all out, you know what I mean. And it's
not always easy, you know. Sometimes people who hounk their
horns in New York City really annoy me. Um, and
(29:02):
I get angry quickly. Um. But the truth is is
that every single day is another opportunity to prove what
kind of person you are. And and I try to
prove that I'm a good person every single day. I'm
not successful at it. You know. Some days I I
am too lazy, some days I'm too crazy. I don't
even know what, but um, every every single day is
another opportunity to prove your worth and and who you
(29:24):
are and who you want to be. Well, thanks you
advanced for changing the world. Yeah. Well, Caroline, I gotta
say that it's comforting to know that Abby Wanpac has
those those kinds of emotional ups and downs in a
way of getting angry clearly about issues like maybe not
(29:49):
being paid as much as her male counterparts and just
an equality that she sees within society at large, but
that she can channel it, and that we can channel
that kind of anger into two powerful things, into entire movements. Yeah.
And I think if we all could have even an
(30:11):
ounce of Abbey's single minded confidence and determination, you know,
maybe we could all feel better about our opportunities that
we have and seizing our opportunities to change the world
around us. Yeah. I mean, in terms of the theme
of motivation matters, it seems like after talking to Abbey, yes,
(30:31):
there's that threat of motivation throughout her whole life that
has led her to this point, but there's also the
connection between self awareness and motivation, So it seems like
self aware motivation matters. Yeah, being able to recognize your
weaknesses or failings, and instead of feeling bad about them
(30:52):
or letting them trip you up, just saying I'm just
going to compensate for them in other ways, or you know,
whereas they might be viewed as negative, is just viewing
them almost as a natural part of yourself that you know,
you're just going to almost work around them. Yeah. And
and also to the factor of being motivated, yes, for yourself,
(31:12):
warts and all, but also being motivated for others. I mean,
it really seems like it was a transformational experience for
her to have to take a step back in two
thousand and eight when she was injured and watch her
team and being motivated for them, and clearly that same
it's it seems like she's only spreading that farther because
(31:35):
I feel like Caroline, she's motivated for all of us,
all of our like girls and women, and that's I mean,
that's what a leader is. Someone who's so driven, but
not only driven to benefit themselves, but driven to make
changes for the better in the lives of others. Caroline,
I really feel like we are now introducing Abbi Wanbach
presidential candidate. It sounds like a good idea. Maybe she
(31:59):
should ben ple that in she's talking about all these
world leaders. Yeah, just go ahead and hop on hop
on in that mix. Yeah, and then that hots to well.
Thanks so much to Abby Wombach for talking to us
and now listeners. We'd love to hear from you, maybe
about your experience if you're female athlete, or if she's
one of your role models, or the kinds of gender
(32:21):
inequalities that you've experienced and what motivates you. Mom's stuff
at how stuff works dot com is where you can
send us your emails, and you can also tweet us
at mom Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook and for
links to all of our blogs, videos and podcasts. So
you can learn all of the stuff I Never told you.
(32:43):
Head on over to stuff Mom Never told You dot
com for more almost thousands of works dot com. Four
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