February 20, 2017 • 30 mins
What does "transgender" mean? Is it the same as gender identity disorder? Join Cristen and Caroline as they explore the history of sexology, sex change operations and transgender identity, as well as why trans people are fighting for their civil rights.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to stuff Mom Never told You. From how Stuff
Works dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Kristen and I'm Caroline and Caroline. There was a bit
of underwear news in the news, underwear news, underpans. Yes,
(00:24):
I tweeted this out that the first lingerie line specifically
for trans women has hit the market. Yeah. It was
a partnership between psy Lows and Simone to bias. They
launched Chrysalists, and their mission is to provide a solution
for trans women and make them feel sexy, but also
(00:45):
to change negative views of the transgender community. Yeah, it's
pretty cool. They're using all transgender models and you might think, oh, why,
why do they need special underwear. So the bras, for instance,
come with pockets uh at allow silicone cups to be inserted.
And then also the briefs are designed to help lift
(01:07):
and tuck genitalia to smooth out the silhouette. And right
now they're just starting off with a very basic line,
but they plan to expand Chrysalis too more coture collections,
sect or broader lines of lingerie. Yes, lacy under things. Yes,
So we thought that was pretty cool and also reminded
(01:28):
us say, hey, you know what comes up a lot
in our podcast trans issues, And you know what, we've
never done a podcast specifically on transgender issues, so it's
it's time we talk about it. Yes, So here is
our Transgender one oh one primer, because I feel like
it is coming up more and more, not just in
(01:50):
you know, kind of side items about lingerie lines, but
in news about civil rights, um employment law, and even
in our Potty Politics episode clear issue of bathrooms and
the awkwardness that can bring, especially in the workplace. Yeah.
So um, keeping in mind that March thirty one, market
on your calendars is International Transgender Visibility Day, Let's go
(02:13):
ahead and do our part for transgender visibility, Caroline and
talk about what transgender means. When when we hear the
word transgender, what is that in reference to? Well, the
word transgender itself is an umbrella term often used to
refer to people whose gender identity differs from their assigned
sex at birth, and this is not the only identity though.
(02:33):
These folks could also identify as trans, trans, sexual, gender, queer,
et cetera. There are a lot of terms that have
been coined over the years ever since this was first studied. Yeah,
and the Williams Institute at u c l A estimates
that there are about seven hundred thousand trans people in
the United States. UM and some may pursue hormone therapy
(02:56):
or surgery. UM and transgender people may or may not
use a different name or pronoun than the one they
were assigned at birth. But before we go ahead, let's
talk about some words we don't need to use. Right.
We don't want to use the word transgendered, yet it
sounds like that's something that's being done to someone. Right.
Transgender you can think of as always using it as
(03:18):
an adjective and the whole transgendered thing. I will say
we were called out once. We were no, but I
appreciate it that our listeners were and they weren't mean
about it. Nobody was mean about it, and we didn't
mean to be mean. And we were educated exactly so
much education going on in other terms transvestite, she mail,
he she, tranny, sham. These are all considered to be
(03:40):
dehumanizing slurs. Yeah, and since we're talking about etiquette just briefly,
I'm Sebastian Over at auto Straddle offered some tips for
non trans people who might be curious about trans issues.
And there's nothing wrong with being curious and wanting to
ask questions, but Sebastian requests, hey, please ask permission to
you ask questions. This is obviously a sensitive area. UM.
(04:03):
And don't challenge gender identity by saying stuff like will
you ever grow to average male height? Or don't refer
to cis gender or non transgender as real like a
real woman a real man before you ask a question.
Don't forget the magic of Google. There are some things
that you can simply search on your own, and that
(04:23):
just is part of respecting privacy. And speaking of privacy,
one final thing that Sebastian urges is if you want
to know about genitalia, ask if it is okay to
ask before you ask, ye, try try to put yourself
in other people's shoes really about anything in life. Just
(04:44):
be sensitive. Um. There are a lot of legal issues
that trans people face in our country and really all
over the world. UM. There are various forms of legal identification,
for instance, that have different restrict rules about changing gender
that leave little are no option for correct or consistent documentation.
I mean, just think about the d m V. I
(05:06):
don't want to think about the d m v Also,
most states, UH and countries offer no legal protections as
far as housing, employment, and healthcare go. And speaking of employment,
there was a survey that found that more than a
quarter of transgender employees had been fired because of this
kind of discrimination. UM. Transgender people are also more likely
(05:27):
to be homeless, partially due to these kinds of legal
entanglements that will come up. And also I mean employment
issues of you are getting fired, then you know it
can be harder to put a roof over your head.
They're also at heightened risk of violence and for mental
health issues. Yeah, I mean, if we're going to talk about, um,
(05:47):
the basic issues facing transgender people in our country and
across the world, we definitely need to talk about the
violence and mental health aspects. UM. At least one transgender
person is murdered every month and several more are assault died.
And the same report says that of transgender youth report
being physically attacked, and nearly half of young trans people
(06:08):
have thought about suicide, compared to a fourth who report
having made a suicide attempt. Yeah, I mean, the whole
violence against trans people UM reminds me of the incident
in two thousand and eleven it went viral on the
internet of trans woman Chrissie Lee Polis, who was beaten
in a Baltimore County McDonald's just for being transgender. It
(06:32):
was horrifying and the only reason why the charges were
even pressed was because someone in the McDonald's filmed it
and then put it on YouTube and it got all
of this attention. But otherwise, I mean, when you think
about the fact that there's an estimated seven hundred thousand
trans people in the United States, that might sound like
a large number, but when you compare that to the
(06:53):
broader population, it is such a small minority, and because
of its small size, has been overshadowed in a lot
of ways. And transvisibility is something that is definitely needed
to make sure that violations of basic human rights aren't happening. Right. Well,
so we talked about terms that were coined over time
(07:16):
for trans people, but what about the term gender identity disorder.
This is something that is actually currently changing. So gender
identity disorder is the diagnostic name, or has been the
diagnostic name for transgender It's been part of the diagnostic
statistical manual. I always drip over that since nineteen eighty
and just for reference homosexuality was removed from the d
(07:39):
s M in nineteen seventy three. So I talked about
things are changing with this Gender identity disorder will not
be in the upcoming Diagnostic Statistical Manual number five, which
is said to be published in May thirteen. It will
be replaced by the term gender dysphoria. Yeah, And so
what does this change mean because, um, a lot of
(08:01):
people in the mental health community praised the change, also
people in the trans community because gender identity disorder that
makes it obviously sound like something wrong, something bad. Um.
And the change of the d s M reflects the
narrowing of psychiatrists focus on those who experience personal distress
over their gender incongruity. Essentially not feeling like your assigned
(08:28):
sex at birth fits your assigned gender, that there is
a you know, there's a mismatch going on there. And
Jack Dresser, who is a member of the American Psychological
Association group who is dedicated to considering that name change
issue in said that this recommendation came from a desire
to stop pathologizing all expressions of gender variance just because
(08:52):
they weren't common or made someone uncomfortable. So from that perspective,
it's great, this is a very good thing that's happening. Yeah.
The potential bump in the road, though, comes when we
get to insurance insurance coverage for hormonal or surgical intervention.
Typically it's justified on the ground that gender identity disorder
is just that it's a disorder, it's a medical problem
(09:14):
needing treatment. And back in this was June two eight,
the a m A, the American Medical Association, passed a
resolution supporting public and private health insurance coverage for treatment
of gender identity disorder, saying that this affirm the legitimacy
of the g I D diagnosis and its supported the
removal of health insurance discrimination against transient transgender people. So
(09:38):
there are these worries that once you don't have a
quote unquote disorder, that you cannot get insurance coverage to
pursue the type of therapy or treatment you want. Right
and when we're thinking about medical procedures of people might
automatically think of some kind of procedure to alter the genitalia.
But there was an article in the New republic Um
(09:59):
that was prof filing a transgender woman and she had
a face feminization surgery and the author was talking about
how something like that for trans women in particular is
even more psychologically important because obviously, I mean, that's what
people see, you know, when you are at the workplace
(10:19):
or interacting with your family. UM, and the transplant is
also um going to weekly voice lessons to help modulate
the you know, the base and make it a little
more because women, I mean, obviously women and men speak differently.
And as they point on the article, there's a difference
between just a man speaking in a false set of
voice and a man speaking like a woman or learning
(10:40):
to speak like a woman does, right, because if a
trans man is taking testosterone, that testosterone will naturally lower
the voice, whereas if a trans woman is taking estrogen,
estrogen does not alter the voice in the same way. Right,
So they're they're a whole that that article is actually fascinating,
just talking about not only everything she changed her name
(11:00):
to Caroline actually, so not only everything that she had
to go through as far as like fashion, learning about
how to wear clothes, learning how to apply makeup and
do her hair, but also you know, the more psychologically
damaging stuff of like how do I tell my family
when my kids still accept me? Right? Right. She had
two sons and one of which you know, lived with her,
(11:20):
and she was terrified that it would just alter that
relationship completely. But also in regard to that that medical treatment, UM,
a separate group with the American Psychological Association UM has
determined that enough empirical and clinical data exists to justify
creating a standard set of practical guidelines for treatment and
(11:42):
that will probably help with those insurance issues that we
talked about. So yeah, speaking on clinical terms, this is
coming from the National Institutes of Health writing about gender
identity disorder in particular, and there are are signs, there
are things that people go through, whether they are children
or grown ups, and they write that children who are
(12:04):
diagnosed with gender identity disorder are disgusted by their own genitals,
are rejected by their peers, believe they'll grow up to
be the opposite sex, or say they want to be
the opposite sex. Now, things that apply to both children
and adults, just that feeling alone, depressed or anxious, UM
cross dressing, showing habits typical of the opposite sex, and
(12:25):
withdrawing from social interaction, that whole feeling of well, I'm
I'm just different, and no one will accept me. Right,
And this isn't you know a thing where you know,
a kid's just gonna grow out of it. He wants
to put on a skirt. Okay, well you know what once,
once he grows up, he'll be fine. No, no, no,
those those feelings of not right and it's not feeling
right in your own body only intensifies into adulthood. Um,
(12:50):
you know where it leads to more experimentation of actually,
you know, dressing like the opposite sex or you know,
strongly wanting to live as the opposite sex. Right, And
so they talk about at the doctor basically what happens
when it's not just a phase that a kid is
going through wanting to wear the opposite gender's clothes, um,
(13:11):
the feeling of being in the wrong body. Uh, it
has to last for at least two years for the
diagnosis to be made. Although you know now that this
is changing in May of this year. You know, these
these guidelines will shift also. But at the doctor, the
doctor will take a history in psychiatric evaluation to confirm
the constant desire over time to be the opposite sex. Yeah.
(13:32):
And the good thing is is that there, especially for
these childhood issues, is that um, transgender children are becoming
a more visible in society. I remember hearing uh this
American Life story about this over a year ago or so,
and there have been, you know, cover stories in New
York Times magazine and articles, a lot more attension being
(13:56):
paid to this, which is good because it means that
the right kind of attention can be paid from early
childhood so that you don't end up as an adult
having to radically alter your entire life and possibly dealing
with long term depression and confusion and social alienation. Well, um,
(14:17):
you know we mentioned a bit ago that this is
this is not a new transgender people in the world,
or it's not a new phenomenon. Now this the whole
concept goes back. And it's not just a Western concept either.
There's the hedra from India, the Fafa Fime from Polynesia,
lady boys and tomboys and Thailand, and the taka Tapui
(14:38):
of New Zealand. Yeah, and those are all just different
terms for what we now in the United States have
with transgender people. And just for a bit of a
historical timeline, this is coming from the Guardian In fifteen
fifty two, the word androgyny was coined, but It's only
been in the past decade or so that people have
used it to describe a state of being in between enders,
(15:00):
and that's not though to be confused androgyny, not to
be confused with intersects, which is the medical term of
when someone is born with both sets of genitalia. The
term transvestite has an interesting history. It was coined in
nineteen ten and originated from German sexologist Magnus Hirschfeld, who
(15:20):
went on to develop the Berlin Institute where the first
sex reassignment operations took place. And we we mentioned other terms,
so here's the timeline. Very interesting. Transsexual was coined in
nineteen forty nine, transgender in nineteen seventy one, trans in
nineteen and the term polygender, which is a little different,
was a term also in the nineteen nineties of the
(15:42):
state of being multiple genders. Now, even though we've had
language around transgender issues for a long time, um, unfortunately
and not surprisingly, the discrimination has an equally long history.
In eighteen seventy one of the first public trials for
quote unquote transvestite behavior happened in the UK, and it
(16:05):
was prosecuting Earnest Bolton aka Stella and Fred park A
K Fanny who were arrested for indecent behavior and they
were prosecuted based on transvesticism and soliciting of men as
women and they were quitted of a charge of conspiracy
into commit a felony by cross dressing. And I want
to say it was either on bus feed or flavor
(16:27):
wire recently that had photos of Stella and Fanny. Well, yeah,
and Bolton the Bolton Park Society is one of the
largest organizations for trans people, which I had never heard of.
And then in five just to get genue on down
our road of bigotry, the UK made the homosexual behavior illegal. Yeah,
(16:49):
and this is around this time that sexology we talked
about Magnus Hirshfeld being a sexologist. Sexology was established when
trans people sought out doctors who could cure them. Because
if you're just live in your life, you know, you
might not necessarily think I need treatment. However, if suddenly
the way you are he's illegal, people are going to
(17:11):
start to seek cures so that they're not persecuted. So
the work of Hirschfeld and of Richard von Kraft Ebbing,
a psychiatry professor, led to trans sexuality becoming a recognized phenomenon,
and this brought it to the forefront. It's available for
steady discussion and treatment at this point. Yeah, and because
of Hirschfeld's research into that. In the nineteen twenties and thirties,
(17:36):
at Hirschfeld's clinic, we have the first sex change operations
being performed by Dr Felix Abraham, and those were a
mastectomy on a transgender man in ninety six, a penectomy
on his domestic servant Dora in nineteen thirty and a
vaginal plastic on the Danish painter Lily Elbe in nineteen
thirty one. But Elb did dial us and two years
(17:58):
later from camp occasions. Yeah. Um. In the nineteen forties
and fifties, Michael Dillon, who was born Laura, obtained gender
reassignment treatment during the war. In the late nineteen forties,
he had a penis constructed by plastic surgeon Sir Harold Gillies.
He actually was trained, trained, and worked as a ship's
(18:18):
doctor until being outed by the Sunday Express in nineteen
fifty eight. He eventually moved to India, became a Buddhist
monk and a writer. I mean, there must have been
quite a groundbreaking surgery at the time of the Latening
forties to get a penis construction, because that's something that
even now is you know, very difficult surgery to um
(18:42):
to perform. Now, in nineteen fifty two, we have Christine Jorgensen,
who was a former American g I who returned from
Denmark where she had undergone the first of several operations,
and over on our tumbler a while ago, I posted
a video interview with Jorgensen, who really became the public face,
(19:04):
a celebrated face of transgender people because when she came home,
when she came back to the States, she got a
ton of press coverage. People were fascinated by Jorgensen. Yeah, well,
this had I think a great effect as far as
the transgender community goes, because her once she she was
(19:24):
in the news, she became this new sensation of this,
this tall, blonde, all American woman. Her Danish psychiatrist started
receiving letters from people all over the world who were
going through similar things. And it became clear to medical
professionals around this time that this this wasn't just a
few rare cases of people experiencing this. This was something
much bigger. Yeah, and that's and it's such a prime
(19:46):
example of the importance of visibility that once you see
someone who's going through the same thing, you're saying, Oh,
I'm not there's nothing wrong with me. Okay. Um now
endochronol Just Harry Benjamin set up a clinical practice in
New York then San Francisco. UM. He trained psychiatrists and
psychotherapist to deal with trans issues and published the first
(20:09):
major textbook on the subject in nineteen sixty six. Yeah,
and it was the same year that the Comptons riot
took place. This was that Gene Compton's cafeteria in San Francisco.
So this place was pretty much the only, you know,
hang out where trans people could gather publicly, as they
weren't really allowed in gay bars at the time. So
(20:31):
one night a cop attempts to arrest a trans woman
here at the cafeteria. She fights back and a riot
breaks out, spilling out into the whole neighborhood, and it
became one of the first transgender uprisings in the US,
and that proceeded the Stone Wall uprisings. Um. Now that
we're talking about nineteen sixty six, fastwarding to today, there's
(20:53):
there's been so much more attention and awareness raised about
trans issues, a lot more advocacy going on, UM, but
it has not been complete smooth sailing for trans rights,
especially coming to heads with some factions of feminism, some
more radical feminists who have said that trans women are
(21:18):
essentially violating female bodies right taking them on for themselves.
Susan Striker wrote that feminists of the nineteen seventies were
critical of transgender practices, saying that they were personal solutions
to the inner experience of distress about experiencing gender based
oppression and speaking of gender because obviously this is something
(21:40):
that comes up all the time in the podcast in UM,
in any kind of women's studies, their feminism, UM. Gender,
the the idea of gender, the terminology comes up as
a result of studies on transgender people. This was coming
out of the work of John Money and Joan Hansen
and John Hampson on Intersects You Reality UM that led
(22:01):
to the introduction of the technical term gender in nineteen
It's a little fun etymological fact. Yeah, there's this whole,
this whole new uh scholarly vocabulary that comes out of
the study of not only trans issues, but gender issues feminism.
One of those words is trans feminism, uh, where liberation
(22:23):
is viewed to be intrinsically linked to the liberation of
all women, and often we see sexism and transphobia blended together,
as we did with that woman who was beat up
in the fast food restaurant. Um Amy Koyama rights that
trans feminism stands up for all women and ask non
non trans women to stand up for trans women in return.
(22:45):
And one of the big names that has come out
in more recent years in terms of commentary on sort
of bridging the former device between um sub factions of
feminism and trans issues is Julius Serrano, who wrote the
book Whipping Girl and Sarrana of differentiates between traditional sexism,
which she sees is the belief that males and masculinity
(23:05):
are superior to females and femininity, and oppositional sexism, which
she sees as the belief that male slash masculine and
female slash femininity constitute exclusive categories. And this gets into
her argument that biological variants, you know, the male sex,
female sex exists in the same way that we recognize
(23:27):
gender variants of the spectrum of the performance of male
and female. Yeah, she uses uh, you know, getting into
more vocabulary, she uses the term cis sexualism to indicate
the privilege of those whose biological and subconscious sex are
an alignment. Sys genderism indicates the assumption that males should
(23:48):
be masculine and females should be feminine, which she refers
to as a holy, artificial set of gender expressions, writing
that it seems incomprehensible that so many women could actively
gravitate towards femininity unless there was something about it that
resonated with them on a profound level. Yeah, and she
came up Julius Torano did in our episode on femphobia,
(24:09):
because a lot of this does tie into debates over
or criticism over why the feminine is often derided as
weaker and less valuable than the masculine. And it's part
of that discussion in which she coined the term trans
misogyny for discrimination that targets the perceived femininity of trans women.
(24:32):
So when we're talking about femphobia, like we said in
that episode, it's not just fear and hatred of women
or pink things, but anything feminine. Yeah, traditionally feminine. So
if you want to to dig more into the you know,
the scholarly side of transitiones definitely pick up Julia Serrano's
Whipping Girl, um, but into more feet on the street
stuff that's going on right now to promote transvisibility and equality.
(24:57):
There are things going on like DC's Transgender in Gender
Identity Respect campaign. Yeah, I remember when this hit. Advocates
have said it's the first government funded initiative exclusively focused
on the betterment of transgender and non gender conforming people.
And all of the posters they feature different different people
and each one says, please treat me the way that
(25:18):
any man, woman person would want to be treated with
courtesy and respect. Yeah. There's also the Trans one hundred
list UM, which I think is coming out into March UM,
and it's essentially like the Power List of trans people
and it was launched by We Happy Trans and this
is how to celebrate transactivists in the US. And yeah,
(25:41):
the finalists will be published in March. That's something to
look out for as well. Do not only provide visibility
but also give props to folks out there who are
fighting the good fight. Yeah. So when we see that
list come out in March, we'll be sure to post
it for your or your knowledge for your information. Yeah,
(26:02):
because one thing we went through the timeline, Uh, but
we have not talked about called out specific trans pioneers,
I mean aside from Christine Jorgensen UM. But there are
certainly a lot of them out there. So we'll be
sure to promote some of that stuff that's out on
the web as well. I highly recommend going to if
(26:22):
you are curious, going to auto straddle dot com and
just searching transgender. They have a ton of stuff on
their website as well, And of course Glad We've got
a lot of information from Glad G L A A
D dot org and search um their archives on transgender
stuff as well. And the Williams Institute at u c
l A for more legal resources, huge, huge amount of
(26:46):
resources and research. Yeah, and the New Republic article that
we referenced talks about how transgender issues really are the
civil rights issue, the next big one that's coming up,
so some ing to definitely educate yourself about. So I
hope that we've helped educate and we corrected our use
(27:07):
of transgender and not transgendered. So I hope that the
person who wrote in this listening, because the hat tip
is to you and thank you so to any trans
listeners out there, because I know that you are out
there because we've heard from you before. Let us know
your thoughts and everybody else as well. Mom. Stuff at
Discovery dot com is where you can send them, or
(27:28):
head over to our Facebook leave a message. They're like us,
Well you're at it, and we've got a couple of
letters to share. Christen. We have one here that it's
about our O B g y n episode going to
the guy No one oh one um. But it also
relates to what we've talked about today. Indeed it does.
This is from Catch, who writes, I thoroughly enjoyed your
(27:50):
podcast on the O B. G Yan and appreciate the
importance of talking about what happens in that office. The
medical care of women and gender minorities is often under
discussed and stigma tied. It's very important to shine a
light on My only disappointment was in the oversight on
your discussion of the gynecologist as someplace only women identified
folks would go. As a happily female assigned gent and
(28:12):
trans feminist, it seemed important to note that many transgender gentlemen,
gender nonconforming and intersect people may or do use this doctor.
Just a friendly reminder that trans people have medical needs
to and the medical care of the female reproductive system
slash vagina slash private biz does not always mean the
patient identifies as a lady or woman. So thank you
(28:35):
very much for your perspective. Catch yeah, thank you, catch um,
and I've got one here from Kara on some differences
she's noticed between men's and women's health magazines. She is
a bit of an exercise enthusiast and a runner, and
she says women's magazines, such as Women's Health and Women's Running,
typically take the stance of exercise as a means to
(28:56):
achieving a certain body type or losing weight. I find
this tress especially noticeable between Women's Running, which will have
articles on how to keep your skin clear even after sweating,
or how running gives you a cute but while their
parent magazine, Runners World, will focus on how to get
a faster mile and achieve a new distance or run
a faster race. I've always been frustrated by the perception
(29:17):
that all women care about is their appearance, and God
forbid a woman work work out to look stronger, faster,
or feel better emotionally. No, obviously, she just wants to
fit into that new dress and look good naked. As
somebody who loves athletics for myriad reasons, I wish fitness
magazines that are targeted at women would highlight the benefits
of fitness and athletics that aren't purely superficial I for one,
(29:39):
And I'm really excited about the strongest sexy trend that
seems to be entering women's fitness. Even if it is
based somewhat on an idealized physical attribute, at least it's
better than the malnourished is sexy that seems so prevalent
in the last few years, with all the praise of
the size zero and double zero. So thanks Kara, and
catch into everyone who's written into mom Stuff at Discovery
(30:02):
dot com. You can also find us on Facebook, follow
us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, follow us on
tumbler as well. It's stuff Mom Never Told You dot
tumblr dot com, And if you would like to know
more about human sexuality, go get smarter at our website
It's how stuff Works dot com for more on this
(30:24):
and thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff works
dot com
Welcome to stuff Mom Never told You. From how Stuff
Works dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Kristen and I'm Caroline and Caroline. There was a bit
of underwear news in the news, underwear news, underpans. Yes,
(00:24):
I tweeted this out that the first lingerie line specifically
for trans women has hit the market. Yeah. It was
a partnership between psy Lows and Simone to bias. They
launched Chrysalists, and their mission is to provide a solution
for trans women and make them feel sexy, but also
(00:45):
to change negative views of the transgender community. Yeah, it's
pretty cool. They're using all transgender models and you might think, oh, why,
why do they need special underwear. So the bras, for instance,
come with pockets uh at allow silicone cups to be inserted.
And then also the briefs are designed to help lift
(01:07):
and tuck genitalia to smooth out the silhouette. And right
now they're just starting off with a very basic line,
but they plan to expand Chrysalis too more coture collections,
sect or broader lines of lingerie. Yes, lacy under things. Yes,
So we thought that was pretty cool and also reminded
(01:28):
us say, hey, you know what comes up a lot
in our podcast trans issues, And you know what, we've
never done a podcast specifically on transgender issues, so it's
it's time we talk about it. Yes, So here is
our Transgender one oh one primer, because I feel like
it is coming up more and more, not just in
(01:50):
you know, kind of side items about lingerie lines, but
in news about civil rights, um employment law, and even
in our Potty Politics episode clear issue of bathrooms and
the awkwardness that can bring, especially in the workplace. Yeah.
So um, keeping in mind that March thirty one, market
on your calendars is International Transgender Visibility Day, Let's go
(02:13):
ahead and do our part for transgender visibility, Caroline and
talk about what transgender means. When when we hear the
word transgender, what is that in reference to? Well, the
word transgender itself is an umbrella term often used to
refer to people whose gender identity differs from their assigned
sex at birth, and this is not the only identity though.
(02:33):
These folks could also identify as trans, trans, sexual, gender, queer,
et cetera. There are a lot of terms that have
been coined over the years ever since this was first studied. Yeah,
and the Williams Institute at u c l A estimates
that there are about seven hundred thousand trans people in
the United States. UM and some may pursue hormone therapy
(02:56):
or surgery. UM and transgender people may or may not
use a different name or pronoun than the one they
were assigned at birth. But before we go ahead, let's
talk about some words we don't need to use. Right.
We don't want to use the word transgendered, yet it
sounds like that's something that's being done to someone. Right.
Transgender you can think of as always using it as
(03:18):
an adjective and the whole transgendered thing. I will say
we were called out once. We were no, but I
appreciate it that our listeners were and they weren't mean
about it. Nobody was mean about it, and we didn't
mean to be mean. And we were educated exactly so
much education going on in other terms transvestite, she mail,
he she, tranny, sham. These are all considered to be
(03:40):
dehumanizing slurs. Yeah, and since we're talking about etiquette just briefly,
I'm Sebastian Over at auto Straddle offered some tips for
non trans people who might be curious about trans issues.
And there's nothing wrong with being curious and wanting to
ask questions, but Sebastian requests, hey, please ask permission to
you ask questions. This is obviously a sensitive area. UM.
(04:03):
And don't challenge gender identity by saying stuff like will
you ever grow to average male height? Or don't refer
to cis gender or non transgender as real like a
real woman a real man before you ask a question.
Don't forget the magic of Google. There are some things
that you can simply search on your own, and that
(04:23):
just is part of respecting privacy. And speaking of privacy,
one final thing that Sebastian urges is if you want
to know about genitalia, ask if it is okay to
ask before you ask, ye, try try to put yourself
in other people's shoes really about anything in life. Just
(04:44):
be sensitive. Um. There are a lot of legal issues
that trans people face in our country and really all
over the world. UM. There are various forms of legal identification,
for instance, that have different restrict rules about changing gender
that leave little are no option for correct or consistent documentation.
I mean, just think about the d m V. I
(05:06):
don't want to think about the d m v Also,
most states, UH and countries offer no legal protections as
far as housing, employment, and healthcare go. And speaking of employment,
there was a survey that found that more than a
quarter of transgender employees had been fired because of this
kind of discrimination. UM. Transgender people are also more likely
(05:27):
to be homeless, partially due to these kinds of legal
entanglements that will come up. And also I mean employment
issues of you are getting fired, then you know it
can be harder to put a roof over your head.
They're also at heightened risk of violence and for mental
health issues. Yeah, I mean, if we're going to talk about, um,
(05:47):
the basic issues facing transgender people in our country and
across the world, we definitely need to talk about the
violence and mental health aspects. UM. At least one transgender
person is murdered every month and several more are assault died.
And the same report says that of transgender youth report
being physically attacked, and nearly half of young trans people
(06:08):
have thought about suicide, compared to a fourth who report
having made a suicide attempt. Yeah, I mean, the whole
violence against trans people UM reminds me of the incident
in two thousand and eleven it went viral on the
internet of trans woman Chrissie Lee Polis, who was beaten
in a Baltimore County McDonald's just for being transgender. It
(06:32):
was horrifying and the only reason why the charges were
even pressed was because someone in the McDonald's filmed it
and then put it on YouTube and it got all
of this attention. But otherwise, I mean, when you think
about the fact that there's an estimated seven hundred thousand
trans people in the United States, that might sound like
a large number, but when you compare that to the
(06:53):
broader population, it is such a small minority, and because
of its small size, has been overshadowed in a lot
of ways. And transvisibility is something that is definitely needed
to make sure that violations of basic human rights aren't happening. Right. Well,
so we talked about terms that were coined over time
(07:16):
for trans people, but what about the term gender identity disorder.
This is something that is actually currently changing. So gender
identity disorder is the diagnostic name, or has been the
diagnostic name for transgender It's been part of the diagnostic
statistical manual. I always drip over that since nineteen eighty
and just for reference homosexuality was removed from the d
(07:39):
s M in nineteen seventy three. So I talked about
things are changing with this Gender identity disorder will not
be in the upcoming Diagnostic Statistical Manual number five, which
is said to be published in May thirteen. It will
be replaced by the term gender dysphoria. Yeah, And so
what does this change mean because, um, a lot of
(08:01):
people in the mental health community praised the change, also
people in the trans community because gender identity disorder that
makes it obviously sound like something wrong, something bad. Um.
And the change of the d s M reflects the
narrowing of psychiatrists focus on those who experience personal distress
over their gender incongruity. Essentially not feeling like your assigned
(08:28):
sex at birth fits your assigned gender, that there is
a you know, there's a mismatch going on there. And
Jack Dresser, who is a member of the American Psychological
Association group who is dedicated to considering that name change
issue in said that this recommendation came from a desire
to stop pathologizing all expressions of gender variance just because
(08:52):
they weren't common or made someone uncomfortable. So from that perspective,
it's great, this is a very good thing that's happening. Yeah.
The potential bump in the road, though, comes when we
get to insurance insurance coverage for hormonal or surgical intervention.
Typically it's justified on the ground that gender identity disorder
is just that it's a disorder, it's a medical problem
(09:14):
needing treatment. And back in this was June two eight,
the a m A, the American Medical Association, passed a
resolution supporting public and private health insurance coverage for treatment
of gender identity disorder, saying that this affirm the legitimacy
of the g I D diagnosis and its supported the
removal of health insurance discrimination against transient transgender people. So
(09:38):
there are these worries that once you don't have a
quote unquote disorder, that you cannot get insurance coverage to
pursue the type of therapy or treatment you want. Right
and when we're thinking about medical procedures of people might
automatically think of some kind of procedure to alter the genitalia.
But there was an article in the New republic Um
(09:59):
that was prof filing a transgender woman and she had
a face feminization surgery and the author was talking about
how something like that for trans women in particular is
even more psychologically important because obviously, I mean, that's what
people see, you know, when you are at the workplace
(10:19):
or interacting with your family. UM, and the transplant is
also um going to weekly voice lessons to help modulate
the you know, the base and make it a little
more because women, I mean, obviously women and men speak differently.
And as they point on the article, there's a difference
between just a man speaking in a false set of
voice and a man speaking like a woman or learning
(10:40):
to speak like a woman does, right, because if a
trans man is taking testosterone, that testosterone will naturally lower
the voice, whereas if a trans woman is taking estrogen,
estrogen does not alter the voice in the same way. Right,
So they're they're a whole that that article is actually fascinating,
just talking about not only everything she changed her name
(11:00):
to Caroline actually, so not only everything that she had
to go through as far as like fashion, learning about
how to wear clothes, learning how to apply makeup and
do her hair, but also you know, the more psychologically
damaging stuff of like how do I tell my family
when my kids still accept me? Right? Right. She had
two sons and one of which you know, lived with her,
(11:20):
and she was terrified that it would just alter that
relationship completely. But also in regard to that that medical treatment, UM,
a separate group with the American Psychological Association UM has
determined that enough empirical and clinical data exists to justify
creating a standard set of practical guidelines for treatment and
(11:42):
that will probably help with those insurance issues that we
talked about. So yeah, speaking on clinical terms, this is
coming from the National Institutes of Health writing about gender
identity disorder in particular, and there are are signs, there
are things that people go through, whether they are children
or grown ups, and they write that children who are
(12:04):
diagnosed with gender identity disorder are disgusted by their own genitals,
are rejected by their peers, believe they'll grow up to
be the opposite sex, or say they want to be
the opposite sex. Now, things that apply to both children
and adults, just that feeling alone, depressed or anxious, UM
cross dressing, showing habits typical of the opposite sex, and
(12:25):
withdrawing from social interaction, that whole feeling of well, I'm
I'm just different, and no one will accept me. Right,
And this isn't you know a thing where you know,
a kid's just gonna grow out of it. He wants
to put on a skirt. Okay, well you know what once,
once he grows up, he'll be fine. No, no, no,
those those feelings of not right and it's not feeling
right in your own body only intensifies into adulthood. Um,
(12:50):
you know where it leads to more experimentation of actually,
you know, dressing like the opposite sex or you know,
strongly wanting to live as the opposite sex. Right, And
so they talk about at the doctor basically what happens
when it's not just a phase that a kid is
going through wanting to wear the opposite gender's clothes, um,
(13:11):
the feeling of being in the wrong body. Uh, it
has to last for at least two years for the
diagnosis to be made. Although you know now that this
is changing in May of this year. You know, these
these guidelines will shift also. But at the doctor, the
doctor will take a history in psychiatric evaluation to confirm
the constant desire over time to be the opposite sex. Yeah.
(13:32):
And the good thing is is that there, especially for
these childhood issues, is that um, transgender children are becoming
a more visible in society. I remember hearing uh this
American Life story about this over a year ago or so,
and there have been, you know, cover stories in New
York Times magazine and articles, a lot more attension being
(13:56):
paid to this, which is good because it means that
the right kind of attention can be paid from early
childhood so that you don't end up as an adult
having to radically alter your entire life and possibly dealing
with long term depression and confusion and social alienation. Well, um,
(14:17):
you know we mentioned a bit ago that this is
this is not a new transgender people in the world,
or it's not a new phenomenon. Now this the whole
concept goes back. And it's not just a Western concept either.
There's the hedra from India, the Fafa Fime from Polynesia,
lady boys and tomboys and Thailand, and the taka Tapui
(14:38):
of New Zealand. Yeah, and those are all just different
terms for what we now in the United States have
with transgender people. And just for a bit of a
historical timeline, this is coming from the Guardian In fifteen
fifty two, the word androgyny was coined, but It's only
been in the past decade or so that people have
used it to describe a state of being in between enders,
(15:00):
and that's not though to be confused androgyny, not to
be confused with intersects, which is the medical term of
when someone is born with both sets of genitalia. The
term transvestite has an interesting history. It was coined in
nineteen ten and originated from German sexologist Magnus Hirschfeld, who
(15:20):
went on to develop the Berlin Institute where the first
sex reassignment operations took place. And we we mentioned other terms,
so here's the timeline. Very interesting. Transsexual was coined in
nineteen forty nine, transgender in nineteen seventy one, trans in
nineteen and the term polygender, which is a little different,
was a term also in the nineteen nineties of the
(15:42):
state of being multiple genders. Now, even though we've had
language around transgender issues for a long time, um, unfortunately
and not surprisingly, the discrimination has an equally long history.
In eighteen seventy one of the first public trials for
quote unquote transvestite behavior happened in the UK, and it
(16:05):
was prosecuting Earnest Bolton aka Stella and Fred park A
K Fanny who were arrested for indecent behavior and they
were prosecuted based on transvesticism and soliciting of men as
women and they were quitted of a charge of conspiracy
into commit a felony by cross dressing. And I want
to say it was either on bus feed or flavor
(16:27):
wire recently that had photos of Stella and Fanny. Well, yeah,
and Bolton the Bolton Park Society is one of the
largest organizations for trans people, which I had never heard of.
And then in five just to get genue on down
our road of bigotry, the UK made the homosexual behavior illegal. Yeah,
(16:49):
and this is around this time that sexology we talked
about Magnus Hirshfeld being a sexologist. Sexology was established when
trans people sought out doctors who could cure them. Because
if you're just live in your life, you know, you
might not necessarily think I need treatment. However, if suddenly
the way you are he's illegal, people are going to
(17:11):
start to seek cures so that they're not persecuted. So
the work of Hirschfeld and of Richard von Kraft Ebbing,
a psychiatry professor, led to trans sexuality becoming a recognized phenomenon,
and this brought it to the forefront. It's available for
steady discussion and treatment at this point. Yeah, and because
of Hirschfeld's research into that. In the nineteen twenties and thirties,
(17:36):
at Hirschfeld's clinic, we have the first sex change operations
being performed by Dr Felix Abraham, and those were a
mastectomy on a transgender man in ninety six, a penectomy
on his domestic servant Dora in nineteen thirty and a
vaginal plastic on the Danish painter Lily Elbe in nineteen
thirty one. But Elb did dial us and two years
(17:58):
later from camp occasions. Yeah. Um. In the nineteen forties
and fifties, Michael Dillon, who was born Laura, obtained gender
reassignment treatment during the war. In the late nineteen forties,
he had a penis constructed by plastic surgeon Sir Harold Gillies.
He actually was trained, trained, and worked as a ship's
(18:18):
doctor until being outed by the Sunday Express in nineteen
fifty eight. He eventually moved to India, became a Buddhist
monk and a writer. I mean, there must have been
quite a groundbreaking surgery at the time of the Latening
forties to get a penis construction, because that's something that
even now is you know, very difficult surgery to um
(18:42):
to perform. Now, in nineteen fifty two, we have Christine Jorgensen,
who was a former American g I who returned from
Denmark where she had undergone the first of several operations,
and over on our tumbler a while ago, I posted
a video interview with Jorgensen, who really became the public face,
(19:04):
a celebrated face of transgender people because when she came home,
when she came back to the States, she got a
ton of press coverage. People were fascinated by Jorgensen. Yeah, well,
this had I think a great effect as far as
the transgender community goes, because her once she she was
(19:24):
in the news, she became this new sensation of this,
this tall, blonde, all American woman. Her Danish psychiatrist started
receiving letters from people all over the world who were
going through similar things. And it became clear to medical
professionals around this time that this this wasn't just a
few rare cases of people experiencing this. This was something
much bigger. Yeah, and that's and it's such a prime
(19:46):
example of the importance of visibility that once you see
someone who's going through the same thing, you're saying, Oh,
I'm not there's nothing wrong with me. Okay. Um now
endochronol Just Harry Benjamin set up a clinical practice in
New York then San Francisco. UM. He trained psychiatrists and
psychotherapist to deal with trans issues and published the first
(20:09):
major textbook on the subject in nineteen sixty six. Yeah,
and it was the same year that the Comptons riot
took place. This was that Gene Compton's cafeteria in San Francisco.
So this place was pretty much the only, you know,
hang out where trans people could gather publicly, as they
weren't really allowed in gay bars at the time. So
(20:31):
one night a cop attempts to arrest a trans woman
here at the cafeteria. She fights back and a riot
breaks out, spilling out into the whole neighborhood, and it
became one of the first transgender uprisings in the US,
and that proceeded the Stone Wall uprisings. Um. Now that
we're talking about nineteen sixty six, fastwarding to today, there's
(20:53):
there's been so much more attention and awareness raised about
trans issues, a lot more advocacy going on, UM, but
it has not been complete smooth sailing for trans rights,
especially coming to heads with some factions of feminism, some
more radical feminists who have said that trans women are
(21:18):
essentially violating female bodies right taking them on for themselves.
Susan Striker wrote that feminists of the nineteen seventies were
critical of transgender practices, saying that they were personal solutions
to the inner experience of distress about experiencing gender based
oppression and speaking of gender because obviously this is something
(21:40):
that comes up all the time in the podcast in UM,
in any kind of women's studies, their feminism, UM. Gender,
the the idea of gender, the terminology comes up as
a result of studies on transgender people. This was coming
out of the work of John Money and Joan Hansen
and John Hampson on Intersects You Reality UM that led
(22:01):
to the introduction of the technical term gender in nineteen
It's a little fun etymological fact. Yeah, there's this whole,
this whole new uh scholarly vocabulary that comes out of
the study of not only trans issues, but gender issues feminism.
One of those words is trans feminism, uh, where liberation
(22:23):
is viewed to be intrinsically linked to the liberation of
all women, and often we see sexism and transphobia blended together,
as we did with that woman who was beat up
in the fast food restaurant. Um Amy Koyama rights that
trans feminism stands up for all women and ask non
non trans women to stand up for trans women in return.
(22:45):
And one of the big names that has come out
in more recent years in terms of commentary on sort
of bridging the former device between um sub factions of
feminism and trans issues is Julius Serrano, who wrote the
book Whipping Girl and Sarrana of differentiates between traditional sexism,
which she sees is the belief that males and masculinity
(23:05):
are superior to females and femininity, and oppositional sexism, which
she sees as the belief that male slash masculine and
female slash femininity constitute exclusive categories. And this gets into
her argument that biological variants, you know, the male sex,
female sex exists in the same way that we recognize
(23:27):
gender variants of the spectrum of the performance of male
and female. Yeah, she uses uh, you know, getting into
more vocabulary, she uses the term cis sexualism to indicate
the privilege of those whose biological and subconscious sex are
an alignment. Sys genderism indicates the assumption that males should
(23:48):
be masculine and females should be feminine, which she refers
to as a holy, artificial set of gender expressions, writing
that it seems incomprehensible that so many women could actively
gravitate towards femininity unless there was something about it that
resonated with them on a profound level. Yeah, and she
came up Julius Torano did in our episode on femphobia,
(24:09):
because a lot of this does tie into debates over
or criticism over why the feminine is often derided as
weaker and less valuable than the masculine. And it's part
of that discussion in which she coined the term trans
misogyny for discrimination that targets the perceived femininity of trans women.
(24:32):
So when we're talking about femphobia, like we said in
that episode, it's not just fear and hatred of women
or pink things, but anything feminine. Yeah, traditionally feminine. So
if you want to to dig more into the you know,
the scholarly side of transitiones definitely pick up Julia Serrano's
Whipping Girl, um, but into more feet on the street
stuff that's going on right now to promote transvisibility and equality.
(24:57):
There are things going on like DC's Transgender in Gender
Identity Respect campaign. Yeah, I remember when this hit. Advocates
have said it's the first government funded initiative exclusively focused
on the betterment of transgender and non gender conforming people.
And all of the posters they feature different different people
and each one says, please treat me the way that
(25:18):
any man, woman person would want to be treated with
courtesy and respect. Yeah. There's also the Trans one hundred
list UM, which I think is coming out into March UM,
and it's essentially like the Power List of trans people
and it was launched by We Happy Trans and this
is how to celebrate transactivists in the US. And yeah,
(25:41):
the finalists will be published in March. That's something to
look out for as well. Do not only provide visibility
but also give props to folks out there who are
fighting the good fight. Yeah. So when we see that
list come out in March, we'll be sure to post
it for your or your knowledge for your information. Yeah,
(26:02):
because one thing we went through the timeline, Uh, but
we have not talked about called out specific trans pioneers,
I mean aside from Christine Jorgensen UM. But there are
certainly a lot of them out there. So we'll be
sure to promote some of that stuff that's out on
the web as well. I highly recommend going to if
(26:22):
you are curious, going to auto straddle dot com and
just searching transgender. They have a ton of stuff on
their website as well, And of course Glad We've got
a lot of information from Glad G L A A
D dot org and search um their archives on transgender
stuff as well. And the Williams Institute at u c
l A for more legal resources, huge, huge amount of
(26:46):
resources and research. Yeah, and the New Republic article that
we referenced talks about how transgender issues really are the
civil rights issue, the next big one that's coming up,
so some ing to definitely educate yourself about. So I
hope that we've helped educate and we corrected our use
(27:07):
of transgender and not transgendered. So I hope that the
person who wrote in this listening, because the hat tip
is to you and thank you so to any trans
listeners out there, because I know that you are out
there because we've heard from you before. Let us know
your thoughts and everybody else as well. Mom. Stuff at
Discovery dot com is where you can send them, or
(27:28):
head over to our Facebook leave a message. They're like us,
Well you're at it, and we've got a couple of
letters to share. Christen. We have one here that it's
about our O B g y n episode going to
the guy No one oh one um. But it also
relates to what we've talked about today. Indeed it does.
This is from Catch, who writes, I thoroughly enjoyed your
(27:50):
podcast on the O B. G Yan and appreciate the
importance of talking about what happens in that office. The
medical care of women and gender minorities is often under
discussed and stigma tied. It's very important to shine a
light on My only disappointment was in the oversight on
your discussion of the gynecologist as someplace only women identified
folks would go. As a happily female assigned gent and
(28:12):
trans feminist, it seemed important to note that many transgender gentlemen,
gender nonconforming and intersect people may or do use this doctor.
Just a friendly reminder that trans people have medical needs
to and the medical care of the female reproductive system
slash vagina slash private biz does not always mean the
patient identifies as a lady or woman. So thank you
(28:35):
very much for your perspective. Catch yeah, thank you, catch um,
and I've got one here from Kara on some differences
she's noticed between men's and women's health magazines. She is
a bit of an exercise enthusiast and a runner, and
she says women's magazines, such as Women's Health and Women's Running,
typically take the stance of exercise as a means to
(28:56):
achieving a certain body type or losing weight. I find
this tress especially noticeable between Women's Running, which will have
articles on how to keep your skin clear even after sweating,
or how running gives you a cute but while their
parent magazine, Runners World, will focus on how to get
a faster mile and achieve a new distance or run
a faster race. I've always been frustrated by the perception
(29:17):
that all women care about is their appearance, and God
forbid a woman work work out to look stronger, faster,
or feel better emotionally. No, obviously, she just wants to
fit into that new dress and look good naked. As
somebody who loves athletics for myriad reasons, I wish fitness
magazines that are targeted at women would highlight the benefits
of fitness and athletics that aren't purely superficial I for one,
(29:39):
And I'm really excited about the strongest sexy trend that
seems to be entering women's fitness. Even if it is
based somewhat on an idealized physical attribute, at least it's
better than the malnourished is sexy that seems so prevalent
in the last few years, with all the praise of
the size zero and double zero. So thanks Kara, and
catch into everyone who's written into mom Stuff at Discovery
(30:02):
dot com. You can also find us on Facebook, follow
us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, follow us on
tumbler as well. It's stuff Mom Never Told You dot
tumblr dot com, And if you would like to know
more about human sexuality, go get smarter at our website
It's how stuff Works dot com for more on this
(30:24):
and thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff works
dot com
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