Female Firsts: Laudelina de Campos Melo

Today, Yves sheds light on Laudelina de Campos Melo, who founded Brazil's first association of domestic workers. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to Stephan.
I never told you objection to I heart radio. And
it's time for another female first, which means we are
once again fortunate enough to be joined by our good friend,
the wonderful, delightful, lovely Eve's welcome, Eve, and thanks for

(00:31):
the welcome. It's getting longer and I love it. I
wanted to keep adding I do think about it. I'm like,
which words have I already used? I gotta mix it up.
It's a good exercise for me. But they're all true,
so it's obviously should be there, absolutely absolutely all true. Um.

(00:51):
As always, we just had a really fun, slash kind
of frustrating discussion before this about some really adult things
that we're dealing with adults. But also we have had
some travel going on and upcoming. Um So even I
know you're getting ready to do some stuff, how are
you feeling about it? I'm feeling good about it. Um.

(01:13):
I feel excited at this point, not too stressed, because
sometimes before I travel to places, I get this stress
of like anticipated stress of being in a new place,
like having to deal with different languages and navigating. And
one thing I was thinking about earlier is like the
pace so moving quickly, and that is one thing I'm

(01:35):
glad about. What this trip is a little longer, so
I know that I won't have to like be running
from bus to bus or like be like walking around
with my phone in my hand, like constantly trying to
figure things out. I think I get a little bit
of anxiety around the like constant being in a constant
state of figuring things out, which can get so stressful. Um,

(01:55):
So I feel calm about it right now. I am
going to drink some tea today. I'm going to try
to work out these kinks in my back. I was
telling Samantha that I'm feeling really stiff today. So I
think that like now I'm going to focus a little
bit more now that now that all the adulting things
we were talking about earlier that I have brought up
frustration are kind of out of the way, I think

(02:18):
that I'm going to be able to like focus on
a little bit of physical peace for like I have
to move into some more motion and jet lag and
things that won't be so physically great. Yeah, I hope. So,
I mean that's I agree with all the stuff you said,
Like just thinking about long fights. My back just twinges
like oh no, no, no, no no. And I'm definitely

(02:39):
somebody who when I travel. I love traveling, but I
do make it into like micromanaged. Here's the schedule, every
second he's accounted for. So I hope that this can
be a more relaxing experience for you. I'm glad you
brought that up because I was just thinking about this,
and I was just telling some other people that I'm
in a group it about it about how I am

(03:02):
a planner, and when I traveled earlier this year, I
didn't plan much at all, and I was like, wow,
it felt like a revelation. It's like, wow, I can
actually do this. I am capable of it. I was
I've told myself for so long that I know I'm
gonna have a terrible time if I don't have plans
for every day schedule things, um knowing that I like

(03:24):
pay for something in advance or got to take it
further thing in advance. And I let go a lot
of that earlier this year, and now that I have
a little bit more time to do so, like I
have a whole week in a city where I don't
have plans to do anything like if we want to
go somewhere else, I'm down for taking a long train
to get there, that kind of thing. So I am.
I am excited about releasing, like surrendering to just whatever

(03:49):
happens happens, rather than wrestling everything like into my grasp,
wrangling it and trying to control it, like, which is
something that I to do a lot. Yeah, I hate
doing all of the planning. And he knows that we've
done this together and I'm like, you do it. I
don't want to think about it. These are my request
in the story, um everything else. If I don't have

(04:11):
an opinion, that means I don't have an opinion. I
really don't care. I please don't make me decide. That's
like my ideal vacation with one or two things that
I know I definitely want to do. And the end
of that is like, if anything else is asked, I'm
just gonna like crumble into the floor because I don't
want to. I don't want to get to melt into
a pool of Samantha. You know, at least you know

(04:34):
that about yourself because you want vacations are traveling to
be an enjoyable experience where possible, and it is. It
is funny to me sometimes because I am so like,
we have to do all of this, So I've had
to I've had to learn. I'm not as I haven't
learned to let go or surrender as much as you ease.
But I have had to learn that not everybody wants

(04:55):
to be like we have to go here, here, here, here, here.
We're getting up at two am, we're staying out until
at night. Like. So it's good to know those things.
But I do fall heavily on the side of maximizing
your time when you're on vacation, Like I'm still not
a lounger, and I don't know if I'll ever be
a lounger. Like I like to make use of my time.
I'm not saying that I want rest, but I came

(05:18):
here to do like I can. I'm cool with the being,
but like I can do that at home, I can
be at home. It's a delicate balance. Um, I can't
wait for you to report back in the next femail.
First we have to see if how it worked out.
Maybe I'm hoping that you know, I get some inspiration

(05:38):
for who who the next person will be? Maybe yes, exciting, Yes,
that is exciting. I do love that about traveling. Well,
we will check back in on that. But before we
do that, who did you bring for us to discuss today, Eves?
So today we're gonna be talking about loud Elena. Is
you campust mellow? So she founded the first union for

(06:02):
domestic workers in Brazil and her story is super interesting.
A lot of the resources on her are in Portuguese,
so if you would like to do more research on her,
it will definitely be helpful for you to know some
Portuguese which I don't, which you're probably going to be
able to tell by my pronunciations, but I'm gonna do
on this. So we'll get into the history of domestic

(06:26):
workers a little bit in addition to laud Alina's history herself,
a little bit of the history of enslaved people in
Brazil and history of labor in Brazil as well. In
today's episode. Yes, and I'm really excited to talk about
this one because it was hard to find resources for me,

(06:47):
like in my very you know, basic, so I know
kind of what you're talking about before we go in UM.
But also we have talked about UM domestic work and
women unionizing around domestic work on the show before and
how important it is, and so oh, I'm eager to
learn more about all of that. Yeah, that's a difficulty
that we put up against a lot with these histories.

(07:08):
But I'm glad that you know. It's like, it's still
worthy talking about people even if you don't necessarily you
can't dig in as deeply if you don't speak the
native language of the person that you were talking about.
But I really want to make sure that I continue
focusing on those people even if they're not as easily accessible,
because oftentimes that means that generally people who are just

(07:30):
digging into some research or googling and things like that,
it's a little bit harder for them to do the
research and the work themselves. So I think it's nice
to have an easy jumping off point for learning more
about loud Alina. Yes, agreed, that is certainly something we've
run up against. Two is we want to showcase people
that might be harder in our kind of westernized google

(07:53):
searches to get their information. Um, and it can be hard,
but that doesn't mean they're not worthy of doing the
extra diggae are being that jumping off point. Yeah, and
also that the fact of the matter is that there
are the research that we're doing. You know, these are
people who know a lot about loud and Lena and
have written about her themselves, and they are the ones

(08:18):
who provide access to these materials. So just you know,
acknowledging the fact that there are people who are multi
lingual and are writing about loud Alina, and that some
of these people can be resources as well. Yes, so

(08:44):
shall we get to the history? Yep? So. Loud and
Lena was born in October of nineteen o four. She
was born in Postus Jucalogist in Mina Gerai, which is
a state in southeast Brazil. Her mother was a domestic worker,
so was already a history of domestic work in her family,
which is not unusual because a lot of women were

(09:05):
domestic workers and her father was a lumberjack. Her dad
died when she was around twelve years old, and then
her mom had to work in a hotel, and aloud
of Lena had to bear a lot of the responsibility
of taking care of her family. She had to care
for her younger siblings. But in her younger year she
was already interested in activism. When she was a teenager

(09:29):
and she became president of an organization that promoted activities
for black people, and she also worked as a domestic
worker in the home of Julia Kobishek, whose son would
later become President of Brazil, and then she moved to
South Paulo with that family. She was involved in black organizations.

(09:52):
Um she was referred to in a lot of the
sources that I've seen as a militant, but and she
wasn't involved in these organizations. In the state of salth Paolo.
From around the time of nineteen twenty you'll see that
she was affiliated with the Communist Party and she did
get married. In nineteen twenty four. She married a man

(10:12):
named and Hike Geramus, a Stonemason from Rio de Janeiro,
and the two of them started to build a family.
They moved to salth Paolo in nineteen thirty two. They
had two children, although one died not long after she
was born, and they moved to Santus and they stayed

(10:33):
together for a minute, but she and her husband did
later separate around nineteen thirty eight. So now that I've
already mentioned that her mother was a domestic worker as well,
and she was also in domestic work and So for
a little bit of the background of domestic work in Brazil,
it's obviously very complex. Um, Like you said, Annie, we've

(10:56):
talked about domestic work before. In the history of it,
it was something that wasn't limited to Brazil. It was
active like domestic people who were advocating for domestic workers.
That was something that was happening around the world around
the same period as well, and there were people who
were doing organizing work in the US and Uruguay and

(11:19):
elsewhere in addition to Brazil. But domestic work in Brazil,
as it is in so many places, is linked to
issues of gender, race, and class, and in Brazil is
also linked to the history of colonialism and slavery. So
if y'all didn't know, the Portuguese colonized Brazil and the
labor of enslaved indigenous people and Africans built up the

(11:43):
economy of Brazil over the course of three hundred years.
So just for everybody listening to like keep that in
their mind, that is a longer conversation than we have
time to have today. But the population in Brazil during
the time of enslave meant they had a lot of
enslaved people there. Um, they contributed hugely to the economy,

(12:05):
and as was the case with domestic workers and so
many other things, also to the social systems within Brazil
and all of the things that were built up around it.
So of course domestic work carried out by enslaved people
played a huge role in shaping colonial Brazil. Um most
of that domestic work was done by black women, and

(12:26):
domestic work was kind of perceived as the typical or
the natural sphere for black women. So it wasn't seen
as work. It was more of a thing just like
this is their place. You know, they're infurious, this is
the thing that they were meant to do, and this
is not considered professional work in any sort of official way.

(12:46):
So scholars did note that this continuation of racism and
discrimination after the colonial era, and they pointed to this
idea of women moving from being enslaved servants to domestic workers.
So there is in the scholarship that I've seen like

(13:07):
this idea of a line from the time of enslavement
to the work that women were doing as domestic workers.
Even after the time of abolition. So many of these
families in the country had full time living domestic workers.
This was just a part of the system. This is
how it was, and these domestic workers got room and

(13:28):
board in exchange for their services and things like clothing
as well. And this work gave many women away after
the abolition of slavery in Brazil, So this was a
thing and a feel that a lot of women were
able to go into after, you know, the time of enslavement.
And so as a result of all of these complexities

(13:49):
and so many more, domestic work has been devalued in
history and the people who perform it have been inadequately
compensated or inadequately supported legally as well. So domestic work
wasn't treated as quote unquote real work, and domestic workers

(14:09):
were actively and intentionally excluded from labor laws um and
they didn't have access to the basic labor rights like
paid annual leave, a minimum wage. So even before loud
Alina was in the pictures, so she is viewed and
considered and is a pioneer of the domestic workers movement

(14:36):
in Brazil. But even before she was in the picture
and before abolition, there were domestic workers who did demand
compensation for their work. And we're already actively advocating, even
if it was in an individual way. For their own rights,
for them to have better living and working conditions, which
obviously with domestic work, those things are so tied together

(14:56):
because they were living um so so often. So efforts
began ramping up for workers rights in Brazil in the
nineteen twenties and black women organized the Brazilian Black Front,
So that was founded in Salth Paulo in nineteen thirty one,

(15:17):
and it was an organization of a black people who
advocated for the rights of black people in the country.
It was also a political party and this organization and
its idea spread around Brazil, had newspapers, it had a
school and other things that were organized around it like
a militia, and people in the organization advocated for the

(15:39):
status of domestic workers. So you'll see um domestic work
and the Brazilian Black Front and the things that they
cared about kind of merging together. And this is where
a loud Alina's first comes in. So in nineteen thirty six,
that's when she founded the first union for domestic workers
in Brazil, and that was in Sound too, and it
was called the Professional Ciation of Domestic Workers. So in

(16:03):
the paper by the sociology professor Joazzie bernaginea Costa. He
said that in an interview with elizabetha Aparicida Pinto that
she said that aloud Elina found it the Santo's Association
to win the right to unionize domestic workers. The association

(16:25):
organized a campaign that worked for domestic workers to live
in their own homes um. They also stood by the
principle that domestic workers were professionals, they weren't just part
of the families of the people who employed them, and a.
Loud Elina seemed to be particularly concerned with older workers
who were getting too old or too sick to work

(16:47):
with no access to social security or pensions. But at
this point trade union still acted as private associations and
they couldn't negotiate or get union dues. So this was
around the same time that Getulio Vargas, who was President
of Brazil at the time, took dictatorial power in nineteen

(17:10):
thirty seven and he dissolved all political parties. That led
to the dissolution of the Domestic Workers Professional Association as
well as the Brazilian Black Front and other associations. So
that was the context of what was happening that was
very turbulent and political times at the time, but in

(17:33):
ninety six, after Vargus was ousted, the association was re
established with loud Alina as its president. So she lived
in a campiness and she was involved in activism there
from the nineteen fifties and onward. She was also active
in the black movement and involved in Black Experimental Theater,

(17:57):
which was a group that organized activities for black youth,
and she organized other cultural events as well. So she
continued to be active in organizing for domestic workers labor rights.
In nineteen sixty one she founded the Compudis Union, which

(18:17):
was called the Charitable Professional Association of Domestic Workers, and
it supported things like literacy training and activities that could
create communion and solidarity among domestic workers. She also to
uplift the movement associated with the progressive portion of the

(18:40):
Catholic Church to help improve conditions for domestic workers. So
this is that's a um the background of the context
that loud Alina was working in and how there was
this overarching movement, So she wasn't the only one who
was working UM for domestic workers issues in the country.

(19:03):
There were especially over time as the ideas spread and
as more people became aware of the work that her
associations were doing, but also other associations who were fighting
for labor laws. It picked up steam. So in nineteen
seventy two, domestic labor law was enacted that meant that

(19:24):
domestic workers were able to have their workers cars signed
by employers, they got twenty days paid annual leave, and
they were integrated into the social security scheme. And it
took time, as it always does when we talk about
these things, that it's not just a single moment that

(19:46):
culminates in something large happening or some rights being one
for the group that's fighting for them, but it's something
that happens over time. Obviously, as we talked about earlier,
like this is um a movement that started even before abolition,
but that is continuing up until this moment, so all

(20:06):
the work that loud Alina was doing was not isolated,
and also just thinking about all the other communities around
the world who were fighting for similar things. But over
time they did begin to gain more rights. So in
the Association of Domestic Workers that was in Companists became
the Union of Domestic Workers, and it was because it

(20:26):
was only at this point when domestic workers trade unions
were legally recognized as such UM when the Constitution of
Brazil was ratified. So the constitution did protect basic rights
of domestic workers under the law, but it only granted
them some of those basic rights that other workers already had.

(20:49):
So it was one of those things where it's like
we'll give you an inch, but not a mile. So
they got minimum wage and wages couldn't be reduced unless
through agree meant fraternity leave, maternally leave without bearing unemployment
or salary, an annual bonus equal to one month's salary,

(21:10):
and paid annual leave that was at least one they're
higher than the normal salary. So those were some of
the things that they gained under the constitution, but of
course that had limitations like the right to collective bargaining,
which is obviously super important in them being able to
want some of the demands that they were putting upon people.

(21:31):
And there were also no right to limited hours of work,
which was a thing for for domestic workers because they
worked all the time and they lived with the people
who they were working for. But loud Alina's contributions UM
and the work that she did and the organizings she
did with her associations did contribute to some of those wins.

(21:57):
She died in May and she allowed her legacy to
live on actively took part in that by donating her
home to the domestic workers movement, and it's still used
as a union site and even today though domestic work
is still a significant portion of what women workers in

(22:18):
the country do, so the overwhelming majority of domestic workers
in the country are women, most of them are black.
Um they're poorly paid, oftentimes with little employment security, and
many don't have access to labor rights because there's still
some informality and some of the contracts that the domestic
workers have. But they have since gained more recognition and

(22:42):
more labor rights as professionals, even from that Constitution that
we were talking about earlier. They've gained the right for
collective bargaining, things like pay, legal holidays, the prohibition of
domestic work for workers under eighteen, unemployment insured rents, over
time pay, and limits on work hours, which is super important,

(23:04):
and then protections in the case of dismissal without costs.
So the amendments to the constitution have basically granted them
all the same basic rights that other workers had, and
that is obviously a part of what glaud of Lena
herself was fighting for. But just be mindful that these

(23:26):
are things that are continuing beyond the time of her death,
which was a lot of these things were happening in
the early two thousand's and into two thousand eighteen when
some of these things were passed, and into today. So
it's not something that has just ended and that you know,
a lout of Lena did her work and when she

(23:47):
was done, um, everything was great and fine and dandy.
So but but her contributions did help a lot in
the progress that was achieved and aiding domestic workers the
labor rights that they do have today. Like we said,

(24:18):
and like you said, this is domestic work is such
a often such an undervalued thing and it's so much
hard work, and it's so important and it does fall
along these gender lines and race lines and class lines, um.
And just to fight to get like equal rights for
this job that has it's I am sad that people

(24:42):
have to fight so hard and continue to fight so hard, um,
but it is inspiring to see people in that fight
that are like, no, this is important and we need
to be recognized and we're not going to go away.
So it's just a hugely important and ongoing conversation. Yes,
I think it's a fascinating because obviously she was building
a foundation for a lot of unions when it comes

(25:05):
for unions for domestic workers, because we see that translated
in different countries in the United States. We know that's
even more recent with some of the big names that
have popped up to bring back the issue because it's
oftentimes so pushed down um in different policies, whether it's
politically like just disbanding the organizations by doing a whole

(25:25):
overarching thing or trying to discredit them within. We know
that union busters happen for a reason and who profits
off of that. But the fact that she started this organization,
started the fight so long ago and it's still holding
tight to the point that she donated her home for
a base, that's pretty phenomenal. That's a whole conversation in

(25:46):
itself is as what she stood for and how long
her legacy stands still today, And I think that's an
amazing testament. Unfortunately that it's still fighting is it's awful.
Like there's so many things that you like, you have
to look at the positive, but this negative too is
like Wow, that must wear on people. And try to
have this conversation, um, working as a nanny in general

(26:10):
like that showing knowing that kind of in that field,
how people use that position. It gets you as if
you're not a professional and understanding to stand up for
yourself in general feels like a feat being a woman
being in a caretaking position. Uh. There's so many levels
to trying to stand up for yourself and to fight

(26:31):
for your own rights and just get paid what you're
worth and being given the time to allow your own
life and being able to actually maintain physically, emotionally, mentally
in the field like that is so difficult, Uh, to
set any boundaries. So for her to be able to
come out with be like, I'm gonna not only going

(26:52):
to do this for myself, but other people need to
be able to do it for themselves as well. Yeah,
that's a really good point, Samantha. Like the boundaries because
literally the boundary of space and home does not exist
when you live in with somebody. Um, And it is
a it's a physical job, you know, it is a
very physical job. And that's something important to remember that

(27:12):
they're literally putting their bodies on the line. So when
it is they're very actively fighting for bodily autonomy and
rights related to the body when they're putting these demands forth.
And also the other thing about it was that, of
of course there's this entrenched history that is a strong

(27:33):
undercurrent under the views of domestic work. How why people
didn't view it or they or wasn't legally counted as
a professional category, but also why general sentiment was a
lot of the times that this is what they deserve.
This is they deserve, you know, come from a time
when they weren't compensated, and that was about right for people.

(27:54):
That's what they considered to be part for the course
and what they desire. And you'll see things like people
sending loud alina letters about how I don't think what
you're saying is it doesn't make any sense, like this
doesn't you don't deserve these rights, But that that was
also something that they were actively up against in law

(28:16):
laws that specifically said that in plain and clear language
that domestic workers should not and will not and do
not have the right to collectively bargain and things like that.
So that not to mention all of these political ups
and downs and dictatorships and difficulties that they had to

(28:37):
fight against that were larger, even if they weren't pointed
towards them, that made it more difficult for them to
get gains like actually being able to unionize and collectively bargains.
So it's also nice to see that persistence over time,
and even if we don't have a completely full picture

(28:58):
of loud Alina's life and everything she was doing every
single day of her life, that she always came back
to her work for domestic workers, but also was able
to translate all of the things that she cared about
into other movements and this conjoining of different movements that

(29:18):
worked out for the benefit of domestic workers. And she
seemed to be the kind of person to who cared
about literacy, she cared about education, and she cared about
the elderly, and like what it meant for people to
age within domestic work, and yeah, so many of those things.
So yeah, I'm definitely grateful for her in her story. Yeah,

(29:41):
as you were talking about how she did so many
things within the community, all the things, I'm like, this
is such an intersectional level of advocacy that she was
already doing, and I think that's kind of that level
of just knowing that she truly cared about others in
the community. Again, maybe this is just me projecting, but
that's why it seems as she continued to open up

(30:02):
more projects too. I'm like, you did a what you
did a theater? Just on top of your advocacy for unions.
I'm like, what for domestic work. That's a whole different level.
But that it seems like such a layered comment about
who she was as an individual and knowing that what
she wanted to do was better people's livelihoods beyond just

(30:23):
her own workplace, a community type of things, like it
needs to be an overall bigger thing and there needs
to be a massive change. Here's how I'm going to
do it individually. Yeah, and I think, I mean, this
is a bigger conversation. But we see this all the
time of these jobs that are essential to holding our
community together that have been primarily dominated by women, and

(30:43):
caretaking jobs in specific, and it's like weaponized against women,
like but you care, right, so you don't we don't
need to pay you because you're getting reward from like
caring for people. And this whole idea of if you
do care about something, it is hard to not do it,
especially if like people's well being in livelihood is on

(31:04):
the line, and for her to be like, we but
we're people too, and we need to be compensated and
recognized for the work we're doing. Um, Like, of course
we care, but that doesn't mean we should get paid. Yeah,
it's so frustrating to me. It's oftentimes weaponized, and we
see it again today again for domestic workers, but also teachers,

(31:24):
social workers. You're doing like I was told during I'm
so selfish when I've come back to mind, but I'm like,
this is what happened. I was in my industry as
a social worker, asking if we're gonna get a five
percent raise for our thirty five thousand dollar a year
salary for working sixty hours a week, and he was like,
your your raise. What you should be focused on is
helping the kids. That's what you're doing. And if you're

(31:46):
focusing on money, then you you should leave. And that
was our main leader. But that's the common thing that
happens oftentimes when we start questioning our value and say, wait,
we're worth more, then people who are making the money
aren't aren't doing this job. Start weaponizing your compassion and

(32:06):
empathy and they're like, why are you wanting money? Don't
you just steel fulfilled? And you're like, mm, well we
need to eat, need to Yeah, but I do. I
do love how so many times in these episodes, Uh,
we do with you, Eaves where it ends with this

(32:28):
kind of lasting legacy. It ends with I've done this
work and I wanted to continue, like thinking of the
next generation. I just think that is a beautiful thing
to see. So yes, as always, thanks for bringing this story,
happy to bring it. Yes, um, and we can't wait
till next time. I hope your trip goes swimmingly. Yes. Um. Well,

(32:54):
where can the good listeners find you? Y'all can find
me on Instagram at not Aologizing, on Twitter at Eve
steff co. And many other episodes of Stuff Mom Never
Told You talking about female first in history, and or
Eves jeff Cote dot com. Yeah, that's that's it, and

(33:17):
definitely go check out all of those things if you
somehow haven't already. Listeners, thank you again Eves for coming on.
If you would like to contact us, you can our
emails Stuff Media Mom Stuff at ihart media dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at Mom Stuff Podcast
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