August 22, 2025 • 38 mins
Yves joins us to dish on the trailblazing accomplishments of Black cook Lena Richard.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steffan
never told you production by hurried to you, and it
is time for another edition of Female First, which means
we are once again joined by the adventurous, the amazing Eves.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome Eaves.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hello, thank you for the welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Thank you for being here. Listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
If you hear some cicadas, Eves, every time you joined us,
Eves where you have to ask where are you?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
And you're it looks like you're.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
In the wilderness. You're wearing a dinosaur shirt. I'm loving
all of this, Thank you very much. I was in
a dinosaur mood today. So some days the dinosaur mood
just strikes and you must wear your dinosaur apparel.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yes, So how have you been, Eves? Anything of note?
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Is there?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Has there ever been anything of No? I'm not sure. Oh, okay.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
So I went to a craft club recently, and that
was new for me because I think, as I've talked
to y'all about before, and I have also maybe talked
about on the show before, I have gotten back into
my art making and my crafting through sewing and bookmaking.
So going to a craft club was new for me
(01:28):
because I'm not used to crafting and community, but it was.
But I am used to art making and community, and
I love that. I had just never been to a
craft specific club. So I went with a new friend
and that was really fun. I got to know the
new friend, and I got to meet some other people there,
(01:48):
and it was just I was a little like I
was a little socially anxious beforehand, and then I got.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
There and everybody was so nice.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
It was super chill, you know, people working on all
different sorts of things there. So yeah, I guess that's
something something recent in my life that may be a
little interesting to everyone.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
Actually it's very fitting because I was just telling Annie
that we're about to have a future episode about making
friends as adults, and I have been curious about the
craft clubs because I've seen them at libraries like knitting days,
and I love this idea. So I feel like I
need to pick your brain. We need maybe we need
to have you back on talk about experiences about that,
(02:33):
because I think that's the whole conversation we want to
have about this new way of making friendships after COVID.
But I love that, and I need more reports because
I think I need someone to prep me if I
actually ever try to do something like this.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Okay, I can do what I can.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
That was my first time going, but I'm sure if
I get the opportunity to and the timing is right
since I'm all over the place sometimes and I can
get back to it, then then I would love to
do that. But I also have definitely been thinking about
making friends post COVID, and I have been making a
lot of them and in ways that feel genuine and
natural and not forced at all, and it's always been
(03:14):
so super smooth. Like I went to an event with
a new friend this past weekend as well, and it
was another art thing. So art things definitely can connect
help connect the people. They're so so broad and so varied,
and it's nice.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Because you have something else to focus on with the person.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
So if if like the person isn't doesn't really it's
maybe a little it's it's a little awkward because y'all
don't really know each other. Well, then you have something
else to focus on too, But then there's still room
around the event to have a singular conversation.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
So yeah, it's a very interesting topic.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
Yeah, you're definitely gotten my wills going because again, you
are also the extrovert.
Speaker 6 (03:55):
I feel like.
Speaker 7 (03:58):
We've talked about previously when I was like, Hi, you
genuinely do so good, so well when it comes to
being in crowds and being around people, like your calm
looks like confidence, but not in an ego way.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
That it's the most impressive thing I've ever seen in
a person. That I still think about this conversation that
we've had when we've gone out in public, and I'm
just like clinging to you for moral support because it's
a whole different take. And I love how you interact
with people and that you are genuine in all of
your interactions. It seems so we're gonna have to have
(04:35):
I'm just gonna pick your brain in an episode.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Okay, I'm here for it. Just let me know when
to come back. You know I'm here.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I love how so often we're like we do this
with a lot of guests, but especially Ease, We're like,
can you help us?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, you're stressed, we need your meditation.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
Anyway, I have become that person to us.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Well, I'm curious kind of thinking about things that bring
people together. Are you a cook, Eaves, do you like
to cook?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
No?
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Panic ensued when you said, are you a cook? I
started a panic immediately because I'm not a cook. I
think Samantha. I know Samantha's a great cook. I like
I have I had any of your food, Annie, I
don't know if I have.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
But yeah, I can cook, right, But I'm not a cook.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Like I can make certain things well, I know really
well how to put different seasonings together, like just naturally
I can.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
So I have certain skills.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
That come naturally, like I know how to cook for
myself or my family, but I'm not the cook. Like
nobody would come to me and be like, Eves, you
got to make this thing for this party or this pot,
look like you need to make this, you need to
make that. And I am also a recipe person, and
I feel like although I can throw things together, oftentimes
(06:04):
I'm working off of a recipe and I know what goes.
I can add lib off of a recipe, but usually
I have some sort of foundational building block that is
like somebody else's, and then I might be able to
tinker with that.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
A little bit.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
So yeah, like come to my house and I will
cook for you and you'll really enjoy the meal. But
I wouldn't like I'm not gonna be the I'm not
gonna be the person who is Like if I continue
to have a family line, like all my recipes are
gonna get passed down, Like I don't look, I don't
know who's gonna be responsible for that because it's not
(06:39):
gonna be me.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
But but I do enjoy eating.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
Okay, Yeah, I need to put a stand because you
try to say that I was a good cook.
Speaker 6 (06:49):
That's exactly how I cook as well.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
I literally take a recipe and I'm even more stringent
and like the first time I do it, I will
do everything by the book, and then after I hate it,
then I will modify how I wanted to go. So
you because you have been present when I have cooked things,
but I would never say I was a cook. I
also don't get asked to do things and everything is
(07:12):
like oh like stress and half of it is probably
pre bought, Like this is the way I do things.
I do both because I did host a lunar New
Year's event in which yes Eves came.
Speaker 6 (07:26):
It was definitely trial and error.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
So I don't want that to be confused because I'm
like I tried because I wanted to have friends here,
but I'm not a cook cook. My partner is actually
really great at improv in cooking on the fly. Like
I it makes me anxious and I hate it. Like
after I eat it, I love it. But like if
I give him a recipe or like, this is what
I want and then he starts doing his own thing,
(07:49):
I kind of freak out a little bit because I'm.
Speaker 6 (07:51):
Like, that's not what I wanted. But he does a
good job, so I can't say much.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
But yeah, like I'm the same way too, because I'm like, no,
this is the thing, this is what I found on
a box, this is what I found online, and I
am going to use this as my basics and I'm
going to follow it to a t.
Speaker 6 (08:06):
And I will say, any I don't think I've ever
Have you ever cooked for me? I don't know if
you I've ever eaten your food.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I don't think I have.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
And it's in part because I cook a lot. You
cook a lot and your partner cooks a lot. And Okay,
a part of the issue is I think I'm actually
really good cook and I love cooking. You both didn't
meet me in the time when I was baking all
the time, and I bring baked.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Goods all the time. It was just awesome. They were
very well reviewed.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
But I got kind of like typecast for a couple
of things and it annoyed me.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
But then I moved out of that phase.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
But I love cooking, but I kind of have my
things that I stick to. I have a small kitchen,
so I can't do if like, if you're gonna ask
me to get out the food processor, I'm probably not
going to get out the food processor. And I also
i'm kind of I don't have the array of spices
(09:11):
that you and your partner do, Samantha, so I can't.
And that's because I'm a single person who lives alone,
and I just don't like having a lot of stuff
that I might use only once or not that often.
And I'm also like concerned about time, and so there
are things that I like make once and I like,
(09:31):
like one time I'd made this amazing turkey. It was
so good, I'll never do it again, probably because it
took so much time.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
So I know I can do it. It's there.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
But most of the time I kind of make simple
things that are very easy. So the reason you haven't
had a lot of my cooking is that I feel
like your partner has these ideas and I just don't
have the like nice ingredients.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Like I can make you something pretty simple. It will
be good, but it's not gonna be near as good as.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
What you have.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
I would still be down for it, and I know
any you're gonna transition to this, but I'm so excited.
I just have to put this in here about the
person you brought because I just recently went to New
(10:25):
New Orleans and the one thing if anybody goes traveling
to New Orleans, I love the city and the only
not the onlyeston. There's so many reasons, but one of
the main focuses for me is to get as much
New Orleans cuisine as possible. Like I don't want to drink,
I don't want to do anything else but find the
best food there. So I'm really pumped about this conversation.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yes, me too, So let's get into it. Who did
you bring for us to talk about today, Eves?
Speaker 4 (10:56):
So today we're talking about Lena Richard, which is why
Samantha is mentioning New Orleans. She was the first black
woman to publish a New Orleans Creo cuisine cookbook and
the first black American to host a cooking show. So
her story is super exciting and we'll probably make you hungry.
(11:19):
So actually, y'all pause the episode, get a snack if
you're not snacking, and then come back and then turn
the episode back on, and then you'll be far more
prepared for what's to come, because you may get hungry
during this episode. Okay, So we'll start at the beginning
(11:39):
of Lena's life. She was born in New Roads, Louisiana,
on September eleventh, eighteen ninety two. Her parents were Jean
Pierre Paul and Francois Laurent, and her father was a farmer.
Her mother cooked for Nugent Viron. I may be mispronouncing
the name, but he was a manufacturer and his wife's
(12:00):
name was Alice, and they had children, and Lena's family
was Catholic and she had nine siblings. Eventually, their family
moved from New Roads to New Orleans, Louisiana, and Lina
would start helping her mother cook after school, and so Alice,
(12:23):
the wife of Nugent Varren, the family that they were
cooking for. Alice noticed Lina's cooking skills, and so when
Alice graduated from high school, their family hired Lena as
a full time cook, and Lina would start by making
(12:43):
lunch for them, and then she started doing more dinners
and events, and Alice ended up sending Lena to a
cooking school in New Orleans.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
And then MS Farmer School of Cookery in Boston.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
That was a school that was founded in nineteen o
two and at the time, Lena was the only black
woman in the program. And here's a quote from Lena
that she later said in a newspaper interview. When I
got way up there, I found out in a hurry,
they can't teach me much more than I know. I
learned things about new desserts and salads, But when it
(13:24):
comes to cooking meats, stews, soups, sauces and such dishes,
we Southern cooks have Northern cooks beat by a mile.
That's not big talk, that's honest truth. That's the end
of the quote. When I was rereading that quote just now,
I was like, Wow, she's starting North South beef in
his quote, because I don't know if she was prompted
(13:47):
to say, do you think Southern is better than Northern?
Speaker 3 (13:52):
But it's just it's really funny.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
When it comes to food, people get really defensive and territorial,
and like a lot of pride comes out, like for
the fact that I've seen not only in the like
North South thing, I've also seen like the beef between
when it comes to barbecue, like statewide like people are
And she definitely threw down the gauntlet with that statement.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Mm hmm, and fair to also like there are fair
arguments for why some regional variations of things are better
than others.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
I've had my own complaints in traveling so.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
And I feel like.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Get with the love, like I will specifically go to
New Orleans dreaming about specific foods and that can only
be done well in New Orleans. And even though I'm
not from there, I have opinions about Bignet's and where
you need to go even though I don't, like I'm
not from there. So again, yet I think she has
the right to say to say those things.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
For sure, And also like it was, it's also nice
to hear in that quote her acknowledging that, like her
actual experience of cooking is just as valuable as the
information that she was getting from her school studies. Like
I appreciated that she acknowledged that, especially because she was
in a setting where she was like the only black woman,
(15:14):
but she she wasn't. We're oftentimes the community around her
around cooking, around culinary arts could denegrate black people or
say that it was a skill that we just had
in Nately, it was just part of being black, was
to like be a good cook. So it could you know,
she didn't. She didn't clearly wasn't discouraged by that. I'm
(15:34):
not exactly sure how much of that she faced interpersonally,
but that definitely was the vibe of the day, that
was the culture of the day.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
So that was definitely nice to see.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
And I like how she said, that's not big talk,
like I'm just spinning facts here.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Okay, so.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Here's a quote, and I guess, Annie, you'll tell me
if I'm saying this dish name wrong. It's French. But
so here's another quote from Lena. I cooked a couple
of my dishes, like creole gumbo and my chicken voloven,
and they go crazy almost trying to copy down what
I say. I think maybe I'm pretty good, so someday
(16:14):
I'd write it down myself. As you can see, she's
already thinking about documenting and recording her recipes. So this
inspiration started to happen while she was in school. After
she finished studying at the school, she went back to
New Orleans and she kept working for the family that
(16:36):
she was working for before. But then she was starting
to become more known as a great cook in the
city and she ended up starting a catering business where
she mostly serves like high profile, high society white residents.
And in nineteen fourteen she married a man named Percival Richard,
(16:57):
and seven years later they had their only child. And
by the time Lena was twenty eight, she had left
working for the family and she started running a shop
out of her home. It was called the Sweet Shop,
and in it she sold sandwiches, red beans and rice,
and watermelon salad. This is just one of many entrepreneurial
(17:20):
adventures that she would have.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
In her lifetime.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Also, according to census records, Lena might have worked as
a home instructor at a black public school in New Orleans.
But Alice, the person who really believed in Lina's cooking abilities,
ended up dying in nineteen thirty one, but Lena did
stay in touch with that family and she continue her cooking.
(17:48):
So in nineteen thirty one, Lena also became the head
chef of the Orleans Club, which was a social club
that was mostly white women, and when she was there,
Lena made food for luncheons and through that work she
started getting more opportunities for catering work. In nineteen thirty six,
Lena started hosting cooking demonstrations for all black audiences, and
(18:15):
in nineteen thirty seven she left her position at the
Orleans Club and that same year she opened the Lena M.
Richard Catering School, another one of her entrepreneurial ventures. It
was the first cooking school ran by a black woman
in New Orleans, and it was the first school that
was made specifically for the instruction of Black people, first
(18:35):
cooking school that was made specifically for the instruction of
black people. And Lina said this quote, My purpose in
opening a cooking school was to teach men and women
the art of food preparation and serving in order that
they would become capable of preparing and serving food for
any occasion, and also that they might be in a
position to demand higher wages.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
So she clearly.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Had an i on what was available to black people,
how she could help with the knowledge that she had
and the resources that she had to bring other people
up along with her. So I know, you know, I
mentioned earlier how a lot of the people that she
was cooking for were these like wealthier, more upper class
(19:22):
white folks, but she definitely also had an eye on
like how other black people, other black cooks were getting
opportunities to So Lena continued doing her demonstration for audiences
of all kinds of races. And back to what we
spoke about a little earlier. When she was at Fannie Farmer,
that cooking school, she was dreaming about writing a cookbook,
(19:46):
and so at this time in the nineteen thirties, her
daughter Marie helped her prepare her cookbook. It took them
a couple of years. Lena would tell the recipes and
the cooking tips to Marie. Marie would write them down
and give them to a typist, and Lena held cooking
demos so that she could pay the printer to create
(20:07):
the book. And in nineteen thirty nine, Lena was able
to send her book, Lena Richards's Cookbook because make no
mistake about whose it was, to the printer, and she
went on a book tour and food writers like Clementine
Paddleford and James Beard gave the book positive reviews. People
across the country were interested in Lina's work and recipes,
(20:29):
and she wanted to promote the cookbook in the Northeast,
the place she had. Oh yeah, she had talked a
little less about earlier. So she took a quote suitcase
bulging with ten pounds of dried shrimp, pure cane syrup
Louisiana shelled pecans or pecans, as my grandma would say,
an old fashioned brown sugar. So she was like, I'm
(20:52):
going to come prepare. I don't know what they have
up there, but I'm going to make sure I have
what I need to show these people what I'm about
in my cooking. When she was up there, she met
food journalist Clementine Paddleford, who had a column at the
New York Herald Tribune, and she cooked a scalefish for Clementine.
There's a description of what scalefish is if you want
(21:12):
to go look it up. Clementin wrote an article that
was called cook from New Orleans shows Northerners tricks of trade. So, yeah,
the North South thing was happening a lot clearly, And
Lena sold seven hundred copies that were priced at two
dollars each in one month. The next year, in nineteen forty,
(21:34):
Lena got a contract to publish her cookbook as the
New Orleans Cookbook. It had an introduction in this version
by the writer Gwen Bristow, who was a white writer,
and it didn't have the picture that it had of
her in the book that she published privately that had
a picture of her in it.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
This one didn't have a picture of her in it anymore.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
So it was kind of like, you know, it was
it was clearly being sanitized a little bit, like her
name was taken off of the book. So it was
less emphasis on Lena the cook, like I'm the one
who gathered these recipes. I'm the one who went to school.
I'm the one who's been, you know, research, doing all
this research and making sure to document it.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
I'm the one who's the cook.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
There was less emphasis on that and more just like, Okay,
this is creole cuisine, this is New Orleans cuisine, and
this is what's being showcased in this book, and the
author is kind of secondary. But that said, it was
still a major publisher that published her book, and it
was sweet that Lena dedicated the book to Alice. She
(22:41):
said in the dedication Missus Nugent b Verian, whose kindness,
advice and assistance has made this book possible. So it's
clear how much Alice is uplifting of her work and
encouraging of her to go further in her cooking career
left an imprint on her, so much that she decided
(23:02):
to put an in print. So the book included traditional
recipes and some of Lena's own recipes, and Lena, unlike
a lot of other people who were publishing books about
recipes from the region, Lena acknowledged the black cooks who
inspired her and New Orleans cuisine in general. And for
(23:27):
a short time after the book was published, Lena went
to Garrison, New York. She did a one month cooking
trial at the Bird and Bottle Inn, and then she
got the position of head chef there after that one
month trial because later on there was one of the
proprietors who was like, she did a lot for us
in a short amount of time, so she was well
(23:48):
regarded there, and there she was known for her shrimp
suit Louisiana, which was a shrimp and vegetable bisk that
had bade Tabasco peppers in it, and in nineteen forty
one she went back to New Orleans and she opened
Lena's Eatery, and Lena's likely closed down sometime during World
(24:08):
War Two, but a couple of years later, in nineteen
forty three, Elizabeth Reynolds, who was the manager of this
place called the Travis House in Colonial Williamsburg, Virginia, hired
Lena to be the head chef and Lina stayed there
for about two years, and the Colonial Williamsburg Corporate Archives
does have two notebooks of diner's reviews at Travis House,
(24:31):
and one of the reviews, for instance, said Lena is
the queen of oyster Rena. And if you go through
and read some of the other notes that the diners
left about her oyster specifically because our oysters were the
hit thing there. If you go and read some of
those notes, they're like, it does really make our seem
(24:52):
like a celebrity.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
And it's clear, even though the notes.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
Are about the food, that Lena herself made an impact
them because they were like, dear Lena, your oysters. One
of them said something along the lines of those were
the best oysters I've ever had, Nay, like the best
meal I've ever had, So, you know, they knew that
(25:16):
Lina was doing the work, and they noted that they
appreciated the cooking. But still Lena left Williamsburg and went
back to New Orleans. Eventually she restarted her catering business
with her daughter Marie, and by nineteen forty six she
had started a business selling package dinners and pints, courts
(25:37):
and five and ten gallon containers and those were shipped
across the country and even down to Panama, which was
pretty impressive because there weren't you know, at the time,
TV dinners and frozen dinners weren't really like super huge.
Yet this business that she was doing was a partnership
with Borderline Fine Foods, and Lena would sell things like
(25:58):
shrimp creole turtle soup and yeah that she continued to
do that business too, and in nineteen forty nine she
opened Lena Richard's Gumbo House, where she served like fifty
four gallons of gumbo every week, and she served other
things as well, but the diners at her restaurant were
of all races. Her was the family business, so her
(26:21):
son in law, her husband, and her daughter were involved
in running the Gumbo House and oftentimes they would it
would get full after Sunday Mass because diners would go
to Sunday Mass and they would go there. But all
of her success led her to get her own cooking show,
which is pretty cool. It was called Lena Richards New
(26:41):
Orleans Cookbook, so that aired on Tuesdays and Thursdays on
I think it was like a one year old TV
station WDSUTV in New Orleans. It was sponsored by Wholesome
Bread and it featured a dish every day, and this
made her the first black woman to have her own
TV show, her own cooking show, and most of her
(27:02):
viewers were like middle and upper class women. But you
have to also remember that at the time, TV sets
were also just getting more popular, and this was a
time of exponential growth. So in February of nineteen forty nine,
there were about three thousand TV sets in New Orleans,
and then the next year there were around like eighteen
thousand TV sets of New Orleans. So TV itself was
(27:23):
just getting popular. So it's really cool to know that
Lena had a cooking show on at the time, and
the network knew that they wanted a cooking show, and
they came to her for it. Unfortunately, the footage of
her television show is lost. I really would love to
see it. There are a couple of pictures, but yeah,
there you can't watch all of the episodes, unfortunately. But
(27:45):
her TV show and her frozen food business were doing well.
But unfortunately, on November twenty sixth, nineteen fifty, Lena was
at her restaurant.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
There was a.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
Patron who had flown in from la and wanted to
order every item on the menus.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
It was a very hard work day.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Lena cooked everything and at the end of the day,
super late, she was like, I don't really feel well.
She went back home and the next morning she died
of a heart attack in her home. She was fifty
eight years old, and the family did keep the Gumbo
house open until nineteen fifty eight. And of course lots
(28:27):
of black cooks of New Orleans cuisine you know, came
in her wake, and so she definitely left left a
mark on everybody. But her legacy in itself is definitely
really pretty inspirational, interesting, and yeah, she did a lot
of different things in her time. So I'm happy, happy
(28:47):
that I could share her story today. Yes, and thanks
as always for sharing it.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Both of us.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Samantha and I were very excited about this one, and
it is.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
She was so entrepreneurial.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
She was doing so much stuff, and she was doing
it early, like frozen food before the nineteen fifties. She
was ahead the TV A show. She was like ahead
of the game. I love that she was recognizing the
work that she had done, but also the work that
other black cooks had done, like making sure. She just
(29:33):
sounds like and you can see it in quotes from her,
but about her that other food writers have done. She
sounds like a person who I mean, we saw it
immediately with her, these Northern cooks.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
She had opinions, she knew her worth, she knew what
the work was. And I love it. I think it's fantastic.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
It is I love everything when it comes to like
the depth of history that New Orleans has anyway, and
then of course there's the dark history, but like she
persevered in such a way that really established what a
Southern cuisine is and we know it is like the
basis of black community and black women in general, and
being able to create this amazing dish in a culture
(30:17):
that's so different that it's not the South, you know,
like Creole and gumbo and such is not a Southern dish.
It is a New Orleans dish like it is Louisiana specific,
and it's such a like an amazing array of like
technique that you don't think about, and but when it
comes down to it, like it's hard and it's almost
(30:41):
if you are not either you're really good at it
or you're not. It's one of those things, it seems.
And I didn't have to look in because I love
like when we went to New Orleans recently, I had
to go to Dookie Chase because it's been around since
nineteen forty one and the cooking, you know, like this
is creole, this is what I want. And I was
trying to say there was a there Apparently isn't, but
(31:01):
they did kind of overlap. I wonder if there's any
rivalry that they don't talk about or something.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
I'm not sure about that because.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
The cat she came, I think Dookie Chase, like I said, started,
I want to say, nineteen forty one, nineteen forty five
or something, So I don't know how big I got
the restaurant itself, or how big Lea Chase was at
that point in time.
Speaker 6 (31:22):
So she was younger.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
I think she was like twenty something at that point,
so there may not been any overlap.
Speaker 6 (31:27):
But I don't think New Orleans is that big.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Yeah, but also considering like how friendly and like hospitable
New Orleans folks from New Orleans are, I'm not sure
if it would have been like you know, it's all
family and it's all love versus any sort of sort
of rivalry. Yeah, I don't know, But I am wondering though, Samantha,
because you do like New Orleans cuisine so much. What
(31:50):
food you enjoy from New Orleans cuisine that you would
have wanted to taste Lena if Lena made it.
Speaker 5 (31:56):
Oh oh, Like, there's no doubt I would want all
of it. The oysters, which I am a huge fan
of oysters. It sounds like something that I needed to taste.
But of course the gumbo, because I feel like in
every type of cuisine there's a base, like you start
with something because you know there's a comparison, you know
what I mean, and so like to me, I would
want either that because I feel like if she had
(32:18):
the Gumbo house, she obviously is a queen of gumbo,
like she knows what she's doing there you know, as
well as the fact that, like if people are bragging
that her oysters, it's the best mill of their life.
So it'd be a toss up between those two. But yeah,
I find what I'm in New Orleans, I definitely have
to have at least a good gumbo, some type of
fish dish like it probably like you know, a catfish
(32:40):
dish of swords and and a poor boy.
Speaker 6 (32:44):
Those are the things I have to happen on there.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Sounds fair.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
You were right, You've hope listeners got a snack before
this need it. Luckily, I'm going to a restaurant with
my that has gumbo, so maybe I can get some there.
I do say, yes, my mom loves gumbo as well,
so it'll be fantastic. Going back to what you were
(33:12):
talking about, Samantha, doctor Jessica B. Harris, who's big in
the food world, is a big food historian and writer
who has some quotes that you can find about Lena Richard.
She's kind of famous for saying the South is north
of here about New Orleans.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
So it is a very specific cuisine.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
It is a very distinct thing, and I'm sure, like
I can only imagine when she's packing her bags to
go to the north and all.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
That make these dishes.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
If you've never had something like that, it is I'm
almost jealous that you like that first time.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Yeah, it is life changing.
Speaker 5 (33:54):
Like I think about my first encounters in New Orleans
and I'm like, I need this again. Like you think
I'm kidding, Like people would say, oh, because you know,
New Orleans also has become.
Speaker 6 (34:05):
It is not become.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
Has always been a jazz town, like a little more
lively and fun and like festive, and people go to
drink and such. I'm like, I don't care about any
of the alcohol. Give me all the food. I don't
have stomach room for drinks. I just need the food.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
Fear true.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
I mean The Simpsons has an entire episode that many
people have fulls about that, So I don't think you're alone.
This was also really timely because we were talking recently
about PBS and cooking shows on PBS. Not that that
was what was happening here, but like that. I don't
(34:44):
think people realize now that we can.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Just go online.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yes, but how important that was that you would have
somebody who could kind of be with you and talk
to you and talk you through things.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
It's a very early form of a.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Parasocial relationship for lot of people, right, and I think
that that was It's something we shouldn't forget in this conversation,
is that was probably really powerful for a lot of
people to have that.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
Yes, and I do remember coming across one, at least
one quote from someone who reminisced about watching the show,
so even who actually watched it during the time. And
so we don't have it anymore recorded because it was
live and documentations archiving was different back then, and so unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
That is lost.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
But like you can still hear a little bit about
or read a little bit about the experience that people
had watching it and what they what they learned from it,
and what they got from it. So at least there's that,
you know, that kind of secondary secondary source there to
learn a little bit more about about Lina's cooking.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yeah, yeah, it's a dummer, it's lass, but I think
that at least some of that is preserved.
Speaker 5 (35:55):
Her books still out. I just feel like this is
a challenge each of us. Maybe we should all do
a dish and come and talk about it.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Oh my goodness, Oh wow, that.
Speaker 6 (36:03):
Was I wonder if some of those ingredients are available though.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yeah, I love I actually like enjoy reading cookbooks.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Yes, I'd be so into it.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
I'm going to pick the thing that requires the least preparation.
Just so y'all know, if there's a salad.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
But a salad, it could be.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Very true. You got there's a salad somewhere.
Speaker 8 (36:32):
I don't think so, rightbs, Oh my gosh, Okay, well
maybe we'll revisit that in the future, but for now,
thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
As always Eve's it's always a delight. Where can the
good listeners find you?
Speaker 4 (36:53):
Y'all can find me by going straight to my website,
which is Eve's Jeffcoat dot com.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
I will spell that.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
That is y V S j E F F Coat
dot com. You can sign up for my newsletter there.
You can also go to my instagram that is at
not Apologizing, and then you can go to all of
the other episodes of Sminty in which we're talking about
female first other women in history who were pioneering and
(37:23):
had super cool accomplishments. You can learn about their histories.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Yes, so listeners, please go do that if you haven't
done it already, can't wait till next time. Yves in
the meantime, if you would like to contact us, you can.
You can email us at Hello Stuff Onnever Told You
dot com you can find us someflu skuy at mom
Stuff podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I
Never Told You for us on YouTube. We have a
new place for merch You can go to Cotton Bureau
(37:48):
and just search us out find us there. And we
have a book can get wherever you get your books.
Thanks as always to a super producer Christina or executive
producer My andercontributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you
for listening step in the re Told Us production by
Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you
can check out the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
where you listen to your favorite shows
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steffan
never told you production by hurried to you, and it
is time for another edition of Female First, which means
we are once again joined by the adventurous, the amazing Eves.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome Eaves.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hello, thank you for the welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Thank you for being here. Listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
If you hear some cicadas, Eves, every time you joined us,
Eves where you have to ask where are you?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
And you're it looks like you're.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
In the wilderness. You're wearing a dinosaur shirt. I'm loving
all of this, Thank you very much. I was in
a dinosaur mood today. So some days the dinosaur mood
just strikes and you must wear your dinosaur apparel.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yes, So how have you been, Eves? Anything of note?
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Is there?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Has there ever been anything of No? I'm not sure. Oh, okay.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
So I went to a craft club recently, and that
was new for me because I think, as I've talked
to y'all about before, and I have also maybe talked
about on the show before, I have gotten back into
my art making and my crafting through sewing and bookmaking.
So going to a craft club was new for me
(01:28):
because I'm not used to crafting and community, but it was.
But I am used to art making and community, and
I love that. I had just never been to a
craft specific club. So I went with a new friend
and that was really fun. I got to know the
new friend, and I got to meet some other people there,
(01:48):
and it was just I was a little like I
was a little socially anxious beforehand, and then I got.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
There and everybody was so nice.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
It was super chill, you know, people working on all
different sorts of things there. So yeah, I guess that's
something something recent in my life that may be a
little interesting to everyone.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
Actually it's very fitting because I was just telling Annie
that we're about to have a future episode about making
friends as adults, and I have been curious about the
craft clubs because I've seen them at libraries like knitting days,
and I love this idea. So I feel like I
need to pick your brain. We need maybe we need
to have you back on talk about experiences about that,
(02:33):
because I think that's the whole conversation we want to
have about this new way of making friendships after COVID.
But I love that, and I need more reports because
I think I need someone to prep me if I
actually ever try to do something like this.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Okay, I can do what I can.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
That was my first time going, but I'm sure if
I get the opportunity to and the timing is right
since I'm all over the place sometimes and I can
get back to it, then then I would love to
do that. But I also have definitely been thinking about
making friends post COVID, and I have been making a
lot of them and in ways that feel genuine and
natural and not forced at all, and it's always been
(03:14):
so super smooth. Like I went to an event with
a new friend this past weekend as well, and it
was another art thing. So art things definitely can connect
help connect the people. They're so so broad and so varied,
and it's nice.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Because you have something else to focus on with the person.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
So if if like the person isn't doesn't really it's
maybe a little it's it's a little awkward because y'all
don't really know each other. Well, then you have something
else to focus on too, But then there's still room
around the event to have a singular conversation.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
So yeah, it's a very interesting topic.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
Yeah, you're definitely gotten my wills going because again, you
are also the extrovert.
Speaker 6 (03:55):
I feel like.
Speaker 7 (03:58):
We've talked about previously when I was like, Hi, you
genuinely do so good, so well when it comes to
being in crowds and being around people, like your calm
looks like confidence, but not in an ego way.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
That it's the most impressive thing I've ever seen in
a person. That I still think about this conversation that
we've had when we've gone out in public, and I'm
just like clinging to you for moral support because it's
a whole different take. And I love how you interact
with people and that you are genuine in all of
your interactions. It seems so we're gonna have to have
(04:35):
I'm just gonna pick your brain in an episode.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Okay, I'm here for it. Just let me know when
to come back. You know I'm here.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I love how so often we're like we do this
with a lot of guests, but especially Ease, We're like,
can you help us?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, you're stressed, we need your meditation.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
Anyway, I have become that person to us.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Well, I'm curious kind of thinking about things that bring
people together. Are you a cook, Eaves, do you like
to cook?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
No?
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Panic ensued when you said, are you a cook? I
started a panic immediately because I'm not a cook. I
think Samantha. I know Samantha's a great cook. I like
I have I had any of your food, Annie, I
don't know if I have.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
But yeah, I can cook, right, But I'm not a cook.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Like I can make certain things well, I know really
well how to put different seasonings together, like just naturally
I can.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
So I have certain skills.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
That come naturally, like I know how to cook for
myself or my family, but I'm not the cook. Like
nobody would come to me and be like, Eves, you
got to make this thing for this party or this pot,
look like you need to make this, you need to
make that. And I am also a recipe person, and
I feel like although I can throw things together, oftentimes
(06:04):
I'm working off of a recipe and I know what goes.
I can add lib off of a recipe, but usually
I have some sort of foundational building block that is
like somebody else's, and then I might be able to
tinker with that.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
A little bit.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
So yeah, like come to my house and I will
cook for you and you'll really enjoy the meal. But
I wouldn't like I'm not gonna be the I'm not
gonna be the person who is Like if I continue
to have a family line, like all my recipes are
gonna get passed down, Like I don't look, I don't
know who's gonna be responsible for that because it's not
(06:39):
gonna be me.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
But but I do enjoy eating.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
Okay, Yeah, I need to put a stand because you
try to say that I was a good cook.
Speaker 6 (06:49):
That's exactly how I cook as well.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
I literally take a recipe and I'm even more stringent
and like the first time I do it, I will
do everything by the book, and then after I hate it,
then I will modify how I wanted to go. So
you because you have been present when I have cooked things,
but I would never say I was a cook. I
also don't get asked to do things and everything is
(07:12):
like oh like stress and half of it is probably
pre bought, Like this is the way I do things.
I do both because I did host a lunar New
Year's event in which yes Eves came.
Speaker 6 (07:26):
It was definitely trial and error.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
So I don't want that to be confused because I'm
like I tried because I wanted to have friends here,
but I'm not a cook cook. My partner is actually
really great at improv in cooking on the fly. Like
I it makes me anxious and I hate it. Like
after I eat it, I love it. But like if
I give him a recipe or like, this is what
I want and then he starts doing his own thing,
(07:49):
I kind of freak out a little bit because I'm.
Speaker 6 (07:51):
Like, that's not what I wanted. But he does a
good job, so I can't say much.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
But yeah, like I'm the same way too, because I'm like, no,
this is the thing, this is what I found on
a box, this is what I found online, and I
am going to use this as my basics and I'm
going to follow it to a t.
Speaker 6 (08:06):
And I will say, any I don't think I've ever
Have you ever cooked for me? I don't know if
you I've ever eaten your food.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I don't think I have.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
And it's in part because I cook a lot. You
cook a lot and your partner cooks a lot. And Okay,
a part of the issue is I think I'm actually
really good cook and I love cooking. You both didn't
meet me in the time when I was baking all
the time, and I bring baked.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Goods all the time. It was just awesome. They were
very well reviewed.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
But I got kind of like typecast for a couple
of things and it annoyed me.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
But then I moved out of that phase.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
But I love cooking, but I kind of have my
things that I stick to. I have a small kitchen,
so I can't do if like, if you're gonna ask
me to get out the food processor, I'm probably not
going to get out the food processor. And I also
i'm kind of I don't have the array of spices
(09:11):
that you and your partner do, Samantha, so I can't.
And that's because I'm a single person who lives alone,
and I just don't like having a lot of stuff
that I might use only once or not that often.
And I'm also like concerned about time, and so there
are things that I like make once and I like,
(09:31):
like one time I'd made this amazing turkey. It was
so good, I'll never do it again, probably because it
took so much time.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
So I know I can do it. It's there.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
But most of the time I kind of make simple
things that are very easy. So the reason you haven't
had a lot of my cooking is that I feel
like your partner has these ideas and I just don't
have the like nice ingredients.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Like I can make you something pretty simple. It will
be good, but it's not gonna be near as good as.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
What you have.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
I would still be down for it, and I know
any you're gonna transition to this, but I'm so excited.
I just have to put this in here about the
person you brought because I just recently went to New
(10:25):
New Orleans and the one thing if anybody goes traveling
to New Orleans, I love the city and the only
not the onlyeston. There's so many reasons, but one of
the main focuses for me is to get as much
New Orleans cuisine as possible. Like I don't want to drink,
I don't want to do anything else but find the
best food there. So I'm really pumped about this conversation.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yes, me too, So let's get into it. Who did
you bring for us to talk about today, Eves?
Speaker 4 (10:56):
So today we're talking about Lena Richard, which is why
Samantha is mentioning New Orleans. She was the first black
woman to publish a New Orleans Creo cuisine cookbook and
the first black American to host a cooking show. So
her story is super exciting and we'll probably make you hungry.
(11:19):
So actually, y'all pause the episode, get a snack if
you're not snacking, and then come back and then turn
the episode back on, and then you'll be far more
prepared for what's to come, because you may get hungry
during this episode. Okay, So we'll start at the beginning
(11:39):
of Lena's life. She was born in New Roads, Louisiana,
on September eleventh, eighteen ninety two. Her parents were Jean
Pierre Paul and Francois Laurent, and her father was a farmer.
Her mother cooked for Nugent Viron. I may be mispronouncing
the name, but he was a manufacturer and his wife's
(12:00):
name was Alice, and they had children, and Lena's family
was Catholic and she had nine siblings. Eventually, their family
moved from New Roads to New Orleans, Louisiana, and Lina
would start helping her mother cook after school, and so Alice,
(12:23):
the wife of Nugent Varren, the family that they were
cooking for. Alice noticed Lina's cooking skills, and so when
Alice graduated from high school, their family hired Lena as
a full time cook, and Lina would start by making
(12:43):
lunch for them, and then she started doing more dinners
and events, and Alice ended up sending Lena to a
cooking school in New Orleans.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
And then MS Farmer School of Cookery in Boston.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
That was a school that was founded in nineteen o
two and at the time, Lena was the only black
woman in the program. And here's a quote from Lena
that she later said in a newspaper interview. When I
got way up there, I found out in a hurry,
they can't teach me much more than I know. I
learned things about new desserts and salads, But when it
(13:24):
comes to cooking meats, stews, soups, sauces and such dishes,
we Southern cooks have Northern cooks beat by a mile.
That's not big talk, that's honest truth. That's the end
of the quote. When I was rereading that quote just now,
I was like, Wow, she's starting North South beef in
his quote, because I don't know if she was prompted
(13:47):
to say, do you think Southern is better than Northern?
Speaker 3 (13:52):
But it's just it's really funny.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
When it comes to food, people get really defensive and territorial,
and like a lot of pride comes out, like for
the fact that I've seen not only in the like
North South thing, I've also seen like the beef between
when it comes to barbecue, like statewide like people are
And she definitely threw down the gauntlet with that statement.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Mm hmm, and fair to also like there are fair
arguments for why some regional variations of things are better
than others.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
I've had my own complaints in traveling so.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
And I feel like.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Get with the love, like I will specifically go to
New Orleans dreaming about specific foods and that can only
be done well in New Orleans. And even though I'm
not from there, I have opinions about Bignet's and where
you need to go even though I don't, like I'm
not from there. So again, yet I think she has
the right to say to say those things.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
For sure, And also like it was, it's also nice
to hear in that quote her acknowledging that, like her
actual experience of cooking is just as valuable as the
information that she was getting from her school studies. Like
I appreciated that she acknowledged that, especially because she was
in a setting where she was like the only black woman,
(15:14):
but she she wasn't. We're oftentimes the community around her
around cooking, around culinary arts could denegrate black people or
say that it was a skill that we just had
in Nately, it was just part of being black, was
to like be a good cook. So it could you know,
she didn't. She didn't clearly wasn't discouraged by that. I'm
(15:34):
not exactly sure how much of that she faced interpersonally,
but that definitely was the vibe of the day, that
was the culture of the day.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
So that was definitely nice to see.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
And I like how she said, that's not big talk,
like I'm just spinning facts here.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Okay, so.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Here's a quote, and I guess, Annie, you'll tell me
if I'm saying this dish name wrong. It's French. But
so here's another quote from Lena. I cooked a couple
of my dishes, like creole gumbo and my chicken voloven,
and they go crazy almost trying to copy down what
I say. I think maybe I'm pretty good, so someday
(16:14):
I'd write it down myself. As you can see, she's
already thinking about documenting and recording her recipes. So this
inspiration started to happen while she was in school. After
she finished studying at the school, she went back to
New Orleans and she kept working for the family that
(16:36):
she was working for before. But then she was starting
to become more known as a great cook in the
city and she ended up starting a catering business where
she mostly serves like high profile, high society white residents.
And in nineteen fourteen she married a man named Percival Richard,
(16:57):
and seven years later they had their only child. And
by the time Lena was twenty eight, she had left
working for the family and she started running a shop
out of her home. It was called the Sweet Shop,
and in it she sold sandwiches, red beans and rice,
and watermelon salad. This is just one of many entrepreneurial
(17:20):
adventures that she would have.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
In her lifetime.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Also, according to census records, Lena might have worked as
a home instructor at a black public school in New Orleans.
But Alice, the person who really believed in Lina's cooking abilities,
ended up dying in nineteen thirty one, but Lena did
stay in touch with that family and she continue her cooking.
(17:48):
So in nineteen thirty one, Lena also became the head
chef of the Orleans Club, which was a social club
that was mostly white women, and when she was there,
Lena made food for luncheons and through that work she
started getting more opportunities for catering work. In nineteen thirty six,
Lena started hosting cooking demonstrations for all black audiences, and
(18:15):
in nineteen thirty seven she left her position at the
Orleans Club and that same year she opened the Lena M.
Richard Catering School, another one of her entrepreneurial ventures. It
was the first cooking school ran by a black woman
in New Orleans, and it was the first school that
was made specifically for the instruction of Black people, first
(18:35):
cooking school that was made specifically for the instruction of
black people. And Lina said this quote, My purpose in
opening a cooking school was to teach men and women
the art of food preparation and serving in order that
they would become capable of preparing and serving food for
any occasion, and also that they might be in a
position to demand higher wages.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
So she clearly.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Had an i on what was available to black people,
how she could help with the knowledge that she had
and the resources that she had to bring other people
up along with her. So I know, you know, I
mentioned earlier how a lot of the people that she
was cooking for were these like wealthier, more upper class
(19:22):
white folks, but she definitely also had an eye on
like how other black people, other black cooks were getting
opportunities to So Lena continued doing her demonstration for audiences
of all kinds of races. And back to what we
spoke about a little earlier. When she was at Fannie Farmer,
that cooking school, she was dreaming about writing a cookbook,
(19:46):
and so at this time in the nineteen thirties, her
daughter Marie helped her prepare her cookbook. It took them
a couple of years. Lena would tell the recipes and
the cooking tips to Marie. Marie would write them down
and give them to a typist, and Lena held cooking
demos so that she could pay the printer to create
(20:07):
the book. And in nineteen thirty nine, Lena was able
to send her book, Lena Richards's Cookbook because make no
mistake about whose it was, to the printer, and she
went on a book tour and food writers like Clementine
Paddleford and James Beard gave the book positive reviews. People
across the country were interested in Lina's work and recipes,
(20:29):
and she wanted to promote the cookbook in the Northeast,
the place she had. Oh yeah, she had talked a
little less about earlier. So she took a quote suitcase
bulging with ten pounds of dried shrimp, pure cane syrup
Louisiana shelled pecans or pecans, as my grandma would say,
an old fashioned brown sugar. So she was like, I'm
(20:52):
going to come prepare. I don't know what they have
up there, but I'm going to make sure I have
what I need to show these people what I'm about
in my cooking. When she was up there, she met
food journalist Clementine Paddleford, who had a column at the
New York Herald Tribune, and she cooked a scalefish for Clementine.
There's a description of what scalefish is if you want
(21:12):
to go look it up. Clementin wrote an article that
was called cook from New Orleans shows Northerners tricks of trade. So, yeah,
the North South thing was happening a lot clearly, And
Lena sold seven hundred copies that were priced at two
dollars each in one month. The next year, in nineteen forty,
(21:34):
Lena got a contract to publish her cookbook as the
New Orleans Cookbook. It had an introduction in this version
by the writer Gwen Bristow, who was a white writer,
and it didn't have the picture that it had of
her in the book that she published privately that had
a picture of her in it.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
This one didn't have a picture of her in it anymore.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
So it was kind of like, you know, it was
it was clearly being sanitized a little bit, like her
name was taken off of the book. So it was
less emphasis on Lena the cook, like I'm the one
who gathered these recipes. I'm the one who went to school.
I'm the one who's been, you know, research, doing all
this research and making sure to document it.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
I'm the one who's the cook.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
There was less emphasis on that and more just like, Okay,
this is creole cuisine, this is New Orleans cuisine, and
this is what's being showcased in this book, and the
author is kind of secondary. But that said, it was
still a major publisher that published her book, and it
was sweet that Lena dedicated the book to Alice. She
(22:41):
said in the dedication Missus Nugent b Verian, whose kindness,
advice and assistance has made this book possible. So it's
clear how much Alice is uplifting of her work and
encouraging of her to go further in her cooking career
left an imprint on her, so much that she decided
(23:02):
to put an in print. So the book included traditional
recipes and some of Lena's own recipes, and Lena, unlike
a lot of other people who were publishing books about
recipes from the region, Lena acknowledged the black cooks who
inspired her and New Orleans cuisine in general. And for
(23:27):
a short time after the book was published, Lena went
to Garrison, New York. She did a one month cooking
trial at the Bird and Bottle Inn, and then she
got the position of head chef there after that one
month trial because later on there was one of the
proprietors who was like, she did a lot for us
in a short amount of time, so she was well
(23:48):
regarded there, and there she was known for her shrimp
suit Louisiana, which was a shrimp and vegetable bisk that
had bade Tabasco peppers in it, and in nineteen forty
one she went back to New Orleans and she opened
Lena's Eatery, and Lena's likely closed down sometime during World
(24:08):
War Two, but a couple of years later, in nineteen
forty three, Elizabeth Reynolds, who was the manager of this
place called the Travis House in Colonial Williamsburg, Virginia, hired
Lena to be the head chef and Lina stayed there
for about two years, and the Colonial Williamsburg Corporate Archives
does have two notebooks of diner's reviews at Travis House,
(24:31):
and one of the reviews, for instance, said Lena is
the queen of oyster Rena. And if you go through
and read some of the other notes that the diners
left about her oyster specifically because our oysters were the
hit thing there. If you go and read some of
those notes, they're like, it does really make our seem
(24:52):
like a celebrity.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
And it's clear, even though the notes.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
Are about the food, that Lena herself made an impact
them because they were like, dear Lena, your oysters. One
of them said something along the lines of those were
the best oysters I've ever had, Nay, like the best
meal I've ever had, So, you know, they knew that
(25:16):
Lina was doing the work, and they noted that they
appreciated the cooking. But still Lena left Williamsburg and went
back to New Orleans. Eventually she restarted her catering business
with her daughter Marie, and by nineteen forty six she
had started a business selling package dinners and pints, courts
(25:37):
and five and ten gallon containers and those were shipped
across the country and even down to Panama, which was
pretty impressive because there weren't you know, at the time,
TV dinners and frozen dinners weren't really like super huge.
Yet this business that she was doing was a partnership
with Borderline Fine Foods, and Lena would sell things like
(25:58):
shrimp creole turtle soup and yeah that she continued to
do that business too, and in nineteen forty nine she
opened Lena Richard's Gumbo House, where she served like fifty
four gallons of gumbo every week, and she served other
things as well, but the diners at her restaurant were
of all races. Her was the family business, so her
(26:21):
son in law, her husband, and her daughter were involved
in running the Gumbo House and oftentimes they would it
would get full after Sunday Mass because diners would go
to Sunday Mass and they would go there. But all
of her success led her to get her own cooking show,
which is pretty cool. It was called Lena Richards New
(26:41):
Orleans Cookbook, so that aired on Tuesdays and Thursdays on
I think it was like a one year old TV
station WDSUTV in New Orleans. It was sponsored by Wholesome
Bread and it featured a dish every day, and this
made her the first black woman to have her own
TV show, her own cooking show, and most of her
(27:02):
viewers were like middle and upper class women. But you
have to also remember that at the time, TV sets
were also just getting more popular, and this was a
time of exponential growth. So in February of nineteen forty nine,
there were about three thousand TV sets in New Orleans,
and then the next year there were around like eighteen
thousand TV sets of New Orleans. So TV itself was
(27:23):
just getting popular. So it's really cool to know that
Lena had a cooking show on at the time, and
the network knew that they wanted a cooking show, and
they came to her for it. Unfortunately, the footage of
her television show is lost. I really would love to
see it. There are a couple of pictures, but yeah,
there you can't watch all of the episodes, unfortunately. But
(27:45):
her TV show and her frozen food business were doing well.
But unfortunately, on November twenty sixth, nineteen fifty, Lena was
at her restaurant.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
There was a.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
Patron who had flown in from la and wanted to
order every item on the menus.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
It was a very hard work day.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Lena cooked everything and at the end of the day,
super late, she was like, I don't really feel well.
She went back home and the next morning she died
of a heart attack in her home. She was fifty
eight years old, and the family did keep the Gumbo
house open until nineteen fifty eight. And of course lots
(28:27):
of black cooks of New Orleans cuisine you know, came
in her wake, and so she definitely left left a
mark on everybody. But her legacy in itself is definitely
really pretty inspirational, interesting, and yeah, she did a lot
of different things in her time. So I'm happy, happy
(28:47):
that I could share her story today. Yes, and thanks
as always for sharing it.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Both of us.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Samantha and I were very excited about this one, and
it is.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
She was so entrepreneurial.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
She was doing so much stuff, and she was doing
it early, like frozen food before the nineteen fifties. She
was ahead the TV A show. She was like ahead
of the game. I love that she was recognizing the
work that she had done, but also the work that
other black cooks had done, like making sure. She just
(29:33):
sounds like and you can see it in quotes from her,
but about her that other food writers have done. She
sounds like a person who I mean, we saw it
immediately with her, these Northern cooks.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
She had opinions, she knew her worth, she knew what
the work was. And I love it. I think it's fantastic.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
It is I love everything when it comes to like
the depth of history that New Orleans has anyway, and
then of course there's the dark history, but like she
persevered in such a way that really established what a
Southern cuisine is and we know it is like the
basis of black community and black women in general, and
being able to create this amazing dish in a culture
(30:17):
that's so different that it's not the South, you know,
like Creole and gumbo and such is not a Southern dish.
It is a New Orleans dish like it is Louisiana specific,
and it's such a like an amazing array of like
technique that you don't think about, and but when it
comes down to it, like it's hard and it's almost
(30:41):
if you are not either you're really good at it
or you're not. It's one of those things, it seems.
And I didn't have to look in because I love
like when we went to New Orleans recently, I had
to go to Dookie Chase because it's been around since
nineteen forty one and the cooking, you know, like this
is creole, this is what I want. And I was
trying to say there was a there Apparently isn't, but
(31:01):
they did kind of overlap. I wonder if there's any
rivalry that they don't talk about or something.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
I'm not sure about that because.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
The cat she came, I think Dookie Chase, like I said, started,
I want to say, nineteen forty one, nineteen forty five
or something, So I don't know how big I got
the restaurant itself, or how big Lea Chase was at
that point in time.
Speaker 6 (31:22):
So she was younger.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
I think she was like twenty something at that point,
so there may not been any overlap.
Speaker 6 (31:27):
But I don't think New Orleans is that big.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Yeah, but also considering like how friendly and like hospitable
New Orleans folks from New Orleans are, I'm not sure
if it would have been like you know, it's all
family and it's all love versus any sort of sort
of rivalry. Yeah, I don't know, But I am wondering though, Samantha,
because you do like New Orleans cuisine so much. What
(31:50):
food you enjoy from New Orleans cuisine that you would
have wanted to taste Lena if Lena made it.
Speaker 5 (31:56):
Oh oh, Like, there's no doubt I would want all
of it. The oysters, which I am a huge fan
of oysters. It sounds like something that I needed to taste.
But of course the gumbo, because I feel like in
every type of cuisine there's a base, like you start
with something because you know there's a comparison, you know
what I mean, and so like to me, I would
want either that because I feel like if she had
(32:18):
the Gumbo house, she obviously is a queen of gumbo,
like she knows what she's doing there you know, as
well as the fact that, like if people are bragging
that her oysters, it's the best mill of their life.
So it'd be a toss up between those two. But yeah,
I find what I'm in New Orleans, I definitely have
to have at least a good gumbo, some type of
fish dish like it probably like you know, a catfish
(32:40):
dish of swords and and a poor boy.
Speaker 6 (32:44):
Those are the things I have to happen on there.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Sounds fair.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
You were right, You've hope listeners got a snack before
this need it. Luckily, I'm going to a restaurant with
my that has gumbo, so maybe I can get some there.
I do say, yes, my mom loves gumbo as well,
so it'll be fantastic. Going back to what you were
(33:12):
talking about, Samantha, doctor Jessica B. Harris, who's big in
the food world, is a big food historian and writer
who has some quotes that you can find about Lena Richard.
She's kind of famous for saying the South is north
of here about New Orleans.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
So it is a very specific cuisine.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
It is a very distinct thing, and I'm sure, like
I can only imagine when she's packing her bags to
go to the north and all.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
That make these dishes.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
If you've never had something like that, it is I'm
almost jealous that you like that first time.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Yeah, it is life changing.
Speaker 5 (33:54):
Like I think about my first encounters in New Orleans
and I'm like, I need this again. Like you think
I'm kidding, Like people would say, oh, because you know,
New Orleans also has become.
Speaker 6 (34:05):
It is not become.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
Has always been a jazz town, like a little more
lively and fun and like festive, and people go to
drink and such. I'm like, I don't care about any
of the alcohol. Give me all the food. I don't
have stomach room for drinks. I just need the food.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
Fear true.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
I mean The Simpsons has an entire episode that many
people have fulls about that, So I don't think you're alone.
This was also really timely because we were talking recently
about PBS and cooking shows on PBS. Not that that
was what was happening here, but like that. I don't
(34:44):
think people realize now that we can.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Just go online.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yes, but how important that was that you would have
somebody who could kind of be with you and talk
to you and talk you through things.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
It's a very early form of a.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Parasocial relationship for lot of people, right, and I think
that that was It's something we shouldn't forget in this conversation,
is that was probably really powerful for a lot of
people to have that.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
Yes, and I do remember coming across one, at least
one quote from someone who reminisced about watching the show,
so even who actually watched it during the time. And
so we don't have it anymore recorded because it was
live and documentations archiving was different back then, and so unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
That is lost.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
But like you can still hear a little bit about
or read a little bit about the experience that people
had watching it and what they what they learned from it,
and what they got from it. So at least there's that,
you know, that kind of secondary secondary source there to
learn a little bit more about about Lina's cooking.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yeah, yeah, it's a dummer, it's lass, but I think
that at least some of that is preserved.
Speaker 5 (35:55):
Her books still out. I just feel like this is
a challenge each of us. Maybe we should all do
a dish and come and talk about it.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Oh my goodness, Oh wow, that.
Speaker 6 (36:03):
Was I wonder if some of those ingredients are available though.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yeah, I love I actually like enjoy reading cookbooks.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Yes, I'd be so into it.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
I'm going to pick the thing that requires the least preparation.
Just so y'all know, if there's a salad.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
But a salad, it could be.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Very true. You got there's a salad somewhere.
Speaker 8 (36:32):
I don't think so, rightbs, Oh my gosh, Okay, well
maybe we'll revisit that in the future, but for now,
thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
As always Eve's it's always a delight. Where can the
good listeners find you?
Speaker 4 (36:53):
Y'all can find me by going straight to my website,
which is Eve's Jeffcoat dot com.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
I will spell that.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
That is y V S j E F F Coat
dot com. You can sign up for my newsletter there.
You can also go to my instagram that is at
not Apologizing, and then you can go to all of
the other episodes of Sminty in which we're talking about
female first other women in history who were pioneering and
(37:23):
had super cool accomplishments. You can learn about their histories.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Yes, so listeners, please go do that if you haven't
done it already, can't wait till next time. Yves in
the meantime, if you would like to contact us, you can.
You can email us at Hello Stuff Onnever Told You
dot com you can find us someflu skuy at mom
Stuff podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I
Never Told You for us on YouTube. We have a
new place for merch You can go to Cotton Bureau
(37:48):
and just search us out find us there. And we
have a book can get wherever you get your books.
Thanks as always to a super producer Christina or executive
producer My andercontributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you
for listening step in the re Told Us production by
Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you
can check out the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
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