February 21, 2020 • 40 mins
In this edition of Feminist Movie Friday, Samantha and Anney sit down and discuss the 1998 Disney classic Mulan. We promise we kept the singing to a minimum.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey, this is Samantha in the Standing and welcome to stuff.
Mom never told you a production of I Heart Radios?
How stuff works? An? Yes, you know what time? It is? Three? Oh,
(00:24):
it's time for another feminist movie Friday from and It's
Mulan Editions. Is Mulan Edition, which is one of my
favorite Disney movies, especially when we talk about animated like
the classic cartoons. I love it. UM semi appropriate because
it's lunar New Year right now and as um. I
(00:45):
actually when I was in China, I was staying in Wuhan, China,
which is now the center of a lot of concern
about the coronavirus UM. But I remember when I was
there and I got to experienced lunar New Year and
it was just this amazing, amazing thing. Um. And we
wanted to talk about this movie for a while because
it does have a lot of layers to it when
(01:06):
it comes to gender performance and just gender stereotypes in general.
Speaking of I'll Make a Man out of You, one
of the songs from that movie is a very popular
song at our karaoke nights, usually paired with Shania Twains
man I Feel like a woman. We like to do
a double feature of those two songs. Okay, I've never
(01:28):
realized that it came as a double feature. I definitely
know when that song from that comes up, it brings
down most of our mill counterparts will stand up everyone
to start singing the song. There's this jet like a
fist gesture and you kind of get like on your
knees and you do it. I mean, it's excellent. It's surprising,
(01:51):
surprising as a word for it. I remember seeing this
maybe for the first time. I saw it at a
theater and Dothan alab am A and just immediately falling
in love with it and trying to see it again
and again again, right, and I remember watching it and
it is I don't love animated movies, so for me,
this is probably one of my top two three that
(02:14):
I actually will watch and really do enjoy. I think
for me, having representation even though I'm not Chinese, but
seeing a woman that is of Asian persuasion and I'm
so sorry um on screen was phenomenal. And not only
that she was not caricaturized in any way, neither were
the men, so it wasn't an overly stereotypical statement of
(02:37):
Asian people of Chinese people of any of that culture,
and it was nice to see and it made me
feel a little more included in the story, as well
as the fact that she's a strong woman who is
not necessarily trying to get the approval of any man
or husband, but trying to defend her family, which I
(02:58):
I'm all about that. Yeah, And I think it's really
good as we go into this episode to just remember
at the time when this came out, it was on
the heels of Beautying the Beast, Little Mermaids and Lion King,
and so people hadn't really seen Disney had this kind
(03:19):
of one set and Pocahontas was a little bit of
an outlier as well. But until then, you had your princess,
and she looked a certain way and behaved a certain
way and wanted ultimately to find a man. Right is
the disneyfication disneyfication of tails. Yeah. Yeah, And and as
(03:42):
we're gonna get into in a minute, we're really lucky
that we have worded that with me one. Um, but okay,
let's talk about what it is we're talking about. We
kind of chose this also because there is an upcoming
live action remake coming out March, which, yes, there has
already been some controversy around because the lead actress came
(04:04):
out against the protesters in Hong Kong. Right, Yes, so
again we're talking about the animated version, directed by Barry
Cook and Tony Bancroft's starring ming Now when Eddie Murphy
and Beatty Wong if follows fall, Mulan sort of an
outcast in her family community as she's trying to figure
out her place and who she is. The sanctioned path
(04:27):
is for her to bring honor quote unquote to her
family by marrying someone respectable. But when her elderly ill father,
the only man in the family, is conscripted as a
soldier to fight against the invasion of the Huns, Mulan
cuts off her hair and ties it up. Of course,
puts on her father's old armor and takes his place
by impersonating a man named Ping, and ultimately saves the day,
(04:50):
or the battle, or the war or China in general. Yes,
she saves a lot of things, a lot of the things.
The movie was a critical and financial success and spawned
a direct to video se equal which neither of us
have a video game, which neither of us had played
but I have played Kingdom Hearts, which she made an
appearance in, which is interesting because she's actually not a princess.
(05:11):
That's one of the things that's relatable about her. But
she's a part of the Disney Princess franchise, which is
a part of this whole Kingdom Hearts game, which if
you haven't played, I'm not going to try to explain
because it's very very very very very confusing. Yeah, apparently
she has a Deadpool came ye what's and of course
a sauce tie in with McDonald's that was later revived
(05:34):
thanks to Rick and Morty. And I never knew this.
I yeah, I had to include this. The ads for
the sauce definitely skewed racist things like China might run,
don't walk, okay, which is why the sauce was discontinued
to have a very short livespan Rick and Morty. Fans
brought it back after Rick mentioned it on the show
(05:57):
and it kind of became a running joke on the show.
Um and the Ends had this seen petition that got
it back. There was rioting. We've talked about it before
on this show. The whole thing UM a couple of
years ago, when I was at Dragon Con, it was
like the big costume at dra convers to dresses the
Schwan sauce. Yeah, so there was that at the time.
(06:21):
Mulan was yeah, quite different than a lot of previous
Disney stuff, especially when it came to the main character.
She wasn't waiting around for the day to be saved.
Her primary motivation was not romance. She fights and she
uses her brain to outsmart the enemy. She was the
first Asian main character in these Disney movies. A lot
of the animators described her as quote, not a Barbie doll,
(06:43):
making her more accessible. I still maintain she is quite thin,
but y yeah, perhaps not a Barbie doll. I mean
she's definitely animated. Then you see them dressing her up. Yeah,
they tie away and they say the line tiny waist,
it looks painful. It definitely does are painful. And This
story is based on the song of Fa Mulan, which
(07:06):
tells the story of Hua Mulan. It was combined with
a straight to video short called The China Doll, about
a miserable Chinese woman who is rescued from oppression by
a British prince. According to one of the story editors.
The first draft of this story was much more focused
on Mulan's drive to find a guy. Other versions had
(07:28):
her running away from a forced marriage or bad family situation.
The story they decided on was one motivated by love,
but love of father and country. Basically, the reason it
didn't turn out that way of like the romantic comedy
or is just trying to find a guy, is because
the higher ups at Disney weren't really paying attention to this.
(07:49):
They thought Hercules was coming out the same time, Hunchback
of Notre Dame was coming out the same time, so
they thought those were going to be their hits. Those
are the ones they were focusing on. So Mulan was
able to fly under the radar a little bit. The
team had a little bit more creative freedom than Goodness,
Thank goodness. So taking it to a historical context, fall Mulan.
The first transcript of Mulan was dated around sixth century
(08:12):
with the Ballad of Mulan, which was a folk song
originated during the north Way dynasty, and we see it
coming around again as a dramatized to act play called
the Female Milan or the heroine Mulan goes to war
in her father's place very aptly name in Fife and
then was incorporated in the seventeenth century historical novel written
by Chew Rain Hoh called Sweet Tang Romance, and there
(08:34):
was also an opera based on Mulan. Whether this warrior
was real seems debatable, as is a lot of these
stories that we talked about, hard to kneel down historical
context and historical sources, but a source of great inspiration nonetheless,
Hua Mulan Hua literally translated as flower and Mulan translated
as wood, orchid or magnolia would have existed around four
(08:56):
under twenty ninety during the north Way dynasty. There is
also a variation of the story that places Mulan in
the Tank dynasty around six. In this version, there is
another female warrior, Mulan's bonded sister or Lao Tonon Young,
the daughter of the king, that was also part of
the legend. The two bonded over their knowledge of military
(09:17):
and ability to fight, and she has a fairly interesting
legend behind her as well. You're interested in reading more, yes,
And as with the final product of the ninety animation,
most of the folklore centered around the idea of loyalty
and family, with a little splash of possible love on
the side, of course, because you've got to have that.
All the variations do incorporate that Mulan felt she needed
(09:38):
to protect her elderly father by taking his place in battle.
But it's something to note that during that time it
wasn't against the law for women to serve, and sometimes
would be drafted in specific circumstances, So the whole put
to death thing may not have happened, or may not
need to. But you know, we need that drama, right,
We need that drama. Also, there seems to be a
character missing from the animation, but may have been replaced
(09:59):
by the dog, which you said, this doesn't make sense.
When we were watching it, we know him as quote
unquote little brother when she know he chases around the
phone to feed the chickens. But in some renditions there
as a younger brother who was too young to serve,
and it is part of the story of why she
also went into war four both of them, right, and
(10:20):
in these stories. There are several variations of the ending,
but a couple include with her revealing that she is
female and walking to battle, and female clothing which inspires
the rest of the soldiers to fight and win battles.
Very inspiring. Also, some include her being promoted to general
and being a part of the military for either ten
or twelve years. It does end up with her being
honored by the emperor, very moving scenes. A few of
(10:43):
the versions of the story lead her to asking simply
for a horse and being able to return home, or
asking for money for her family. As with most good folklore,
several end with tragedy, whether she kills herself due to
being broken hearted because of her father's death before her
return home him. Also a version in which she killed
herself rather than being a concubine, or because of being
(11:06):
haunted by all the things she had seen in battle.
No matter the ending, she did and does inspire. I mean,
we're definitely getting another rendition of the tale, and apparently
big enough to get a crater on Venus named after her,
which is my that's my dream. I mean, I told
you what you need to do. Just up as a man,
go into battle, die, end of story. Okay, cool, perfect, perfect,
(11:30):
So that's sort of the historical best way we could find.
Historical Obviously a big debate about what exists what doesn't
because it came from a poem, right, yeah, And I
would love to hear from any listeners from China because
from what I read, at least at one time, it
was the thing that was just recited and well known
(11:51):
and it was a really important part of of kind
of a story you learned growing up, right, And according
to some of the context, there was a woman who
was a warrior during the Tame dynasty who they think
may have been a part of the legend as well,
and she technically existed from what I gather, it's hard
to say who mysteries of history, but we tried our best,
(12:13):
and well, I was gonna say so to Disney, but
I don't know that they did, but they definitely took
this story to a successful maybe. So we're gonna get
into that. But first we're going to get into a
quick break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back.
(12:39):
Thank you sponsors. So let's yeah, let's get into a
slightly more detailed plot. Right about this animation. If you
haven't watched it, you haven't, I would recommend you do
so because it's fun. The movie follows Milan makes surprize
when you're first to introduced to her, she's trying to
memorize the traits of being a good woman quote quiet, demure, graceful, polite, delicate, refined, poised,
(13:04):
and punctual. Oh god, she's struggling. Oh lord, already. I
love how as she's saying it, she's like staffing her
face and typing and not typing and writing on her wrist.
So she is, yeah, she writes on her arm, and
she's slobbily eating rise adjustaposition to her words. She's late,
of course, and she has a creative system for doing
(13:26):
her chores. Thanks little brother. Right, so you've already established
he's not your quote traditional lady. That she's creative and
a bit clumsy, she's brave and smart, all those things
that could be an emo song. Yeah, that's true. That's true.
It is a really good introduction to your character because
it immediately sets the tone for she's being told she
(13:48):
needs to be this, but she's clearly not that thing.
But she's trying to make it work. And when she
her father is praying to the ancestors to help move
on as she rushes into town to meet her mother
and grandfather, and that also sets up she immediately is like,
I'm going to bring honor to us all, Dad like,
I will do it, and he's like, oh please, and
(14:12):
decides to play a lot longer. Yes. Yes, So Mulan
rushes into town to meet her mother and grandmother to
get ready to meet the matchmaker. So Mulan is then washed,
her face is painted with makeup, her hair is pinned up,
which she tries to make her own by curling a
little front piece. Um. And she's dressed in a in
(14:33):
a dress. Yeah, they tie the thing around um. And
as this is happening, we get this song, our first song,
bring Honor to Us all is playing, espousing the qualities
that make a woman desirable as a wife and yes,
a tiny waist this one, and that bringing honor for
a woman means getting married. That's quickly established. Mulan's grandmother
(14:56):
gives her a lucky cricket, and one of my favorite
random facts out this movie is that most of the
creators hated the cricket. They hated him because they always
had to ask, well, what is the cricket doing during
this scene? But one of the other creators kept sliding
images of the cricket creekie under under their doors, and
so that's how we got him anyway. Mulan meets the
(15:18):
Matchmaker played by Miry Margoyles a k a. Professor Sprout
from Harry Potter. Now the message is clear. To fit
in as a woman in the society, to succeed, you
have to look and act a certain way. For the
tea a certain way, and Mulan does not fit in.
The matchmaker says too skinney, not good for bearing boys.
(15:41):
So we also get that kind of established that, yes,
having children is also a part of this being a
good woman. The way the scene plays out makes it
obvious that Mulan shapes against the system, even if she
is doing her best to to fit into it. Her
cheat notes get smudged and have done the Matchmaker's face,
(16:01):
and through a series of events, the matchmakers ask sketches
on fire, of course obviously, and Mulan put that fire
out with her pot of tea, I mean, becomes one
of the best costumes I've seen. Yes, ever have you
ever seen people cosplaying this? The matchmaker after the fact,
it's fantastic. Oh, I want to see that so badly.
(16:24):
The Matchmaker is happy about it, though, and she really
assures in front of everyone Mulan will never bring honor
to her family. She has failed both as a woman
and a daughter. Yes, her head hung glow, she walks out, yes,
and yeah, I mean we get kind of an emo moment. Yes,
then we get to our second song. Yes, a metal
(16:44):
maybe emo song. Yeah, for sure, about not recognizing yourself
in the mirror, not knowing who you are. Milan's father
tips to comfort her, but they're interrupted by soldiers coming
into town. The leader reads that one man from every
family must join the army the fight against the Huns,
and when they call Mulan's family name, her elderly ill father,
(17:05):
the only male in the family steps forward to accept
that notice. Mulan rushes forward, asking that they give her
father reprieve, but the conscriptor chief fu ties Mulan's father
for not teaching her to hold her tongue quote unquote,
and Mulan's dad says, she brings this honor to him. Awkward,
it's a really After fighting with her dad and another
(17:27):
emo music cue called scene six, I believe Um, Mulan
cuts off her hair, dons her father's armor, rides off
on their horse to the soldier encampment. Her family cannot
reveal her or she'll be executed. Her grandmother calls on
the family's ancestors to protect Mulan, and this is when
(17:47):
we get introduced to Disgrace family ancestor Mushu played by
Eddie Murphy, a small dragon who doesn't have a great
track record when it comes to protection. It's the Disgrace.
The ancestors agreed to say end out their most fierce protector,
but Mushoe accidentally destroys his statue, so pretends to be him,
(18:08):
of course, and goes in his place along with Cricky
Lucky Cricket. When we cut back to Milan, she's trying
to master her man voice, her man walk to a
little success. Mushoe appears promising to help her. He does
this whole like a big fire and brimstone thing, and
then it's revealed, Oh he's this little dragon. Um. Then
we see a series of gender stereotypes play out. I
(18:29):
guess those also with Mulan trying to be a man
fit in um with Mushoe. He's trying to like coat here,
but he's doing a terrible job, just off all and
he says things like punch it. Men like that or
slap him in the butt. They love that too. Yeah,
that's what I've been told. I you know, well, it's
a fight certainly broke out. So here we meet Shane,
(18:53):
who was eager to also get his father's approval. What
follows is a training montage set to I'll make him
in out of you, and hopefully we've got a clip
for you to watch as well of this, I'm gonna
make this happen, where we see Mulan struggle through training,
but she perseveres. Then, not only that, she figures out
how to retrieve the arrow shame shot into the top
of the wooden pole, something no one else was able
(19:15):
to do, by the way, and by doing this she
earns the respect of the other soldiers. Thank god. This
all with the lyrics playing out reinforcing the gender stereotypes
that Mulan is breaking. Quote did they send me daughters
when I asked for sons? Yes, maybe they did. The
whole implication that quote being a man is the only
(19:36):
acceptable way of strength in warfare. We see her unique
set of skills play out again after they discovered that
the soldiers of steering his father was massacred along with
his father, and they are attacked by the huns in
a mountain path down to one firecracker. Mulan shoots it
to the top of the mountain, causing an avalanche that
swamps the Huns. Yeah. And then and then Mulan on
(20:00):
It's wounded in the process, and it's revealed that she
is oh woman, what treacherous snake. Instead of executing her,
Shane spares her, saying a life for a life. Yeah.
And then Mulan is left on the mountain with her horse,
Creaky and Mushoe. She laments that when she looks at
her reflection she still sees nothing by a girl. No,
(20:23):
but she does see the Hans rise out of the
snow and head to the city. She heads down to
warn them, but of course they refused to listen now
that she's a woman. Yeah, shame as she said, you
said you trusted ping. Why is Mulan any different? And
they're like, uh, this is so fun. Samantha and I
of course did her thing where we watched this in preparation.
We had our date night and Samantha was making fun
(20:44):
of me because I was so interest even though I've
seen it a million times. I was like, you know,
my favorite will be like, oh my god, are you
really shocked by this. Have you not seen this? What's happening?
I just get invested. You surely do, and I love
watching just for that. I get really into it. Okay,
So the Huns appear and they kidnapped the Emperor. Mulan
was felling the truth. Turns out, Mulan comes up with
(21:07):
a plan that involves the men addressing as concubines, using
her earlier technique of climbing the wooden pole that she
she perfected at the soldier encampment, and then they attack
the Hun soldiers. Using her brain, her strength, and her
newfound skills, She's able to free the Emperor, save Shang,
and save China. Not bad. The Emperor gives her a job.
(21:30):
She foush job after he says she an she'll never
obey a way with anything. He's terrible. Uh. The Emperor
gives Mulan his crest and the sword of Sean, You
the leader of the Huns, for all that she's done,
which Mulan, after everyone bows to her in a very
moving scene, prompably gives to her father. He drops these items,
(21:51):
hugging her instead and saying the greatest honor is having
you for a daughter. Then Shang shows up, who did
a terrible job flirting earlier, telling her you fight good. Uh,
and he also does a terrible job now. So Mulan
takes charge and invites him to dinner. Her honor is restored,
(22:12):
moves shoes, honor is restored, He's made in a family
ancestral guardian once again, and Shanks is restored. I guess
found Yeah anyway, um, Happily ever after, cut to ninety
degrees plus the Wonder plus Stevie Wonder and for for
younger folks listening, ninety degrees was a band in the
vein of Backstreet boys and didn't sink and maybe handsome brand. Yeah,
(22:37):
no offense ninety eight degrees, but they were kind of like,
you know, your second tier you tried, Oh well you
got at the end of Mulan. So they did something
we haven't done. Give me a minute, put down your
sparkling water, and here we go. Okay, So that's that's
the basic plot. But obviously we want to we want
(22:59):
to get into some of the tropes in this movie
that we can we can really talk about. But first
we're gonna get into one more quick break for a
word from our sponsor and we're back, Thank you sponsor.
(23:23):
And yeah, there there are a lot of things in
this movie when it comes to gender stereotypes that we
can talk about, and one of them that we we
wanted to touch on was this whole idea of the matchmaker, right,
so I was very curious after watching the scene with
the musical number bring honor to us all, and of
course with all the implications that a matchmaker would define
whether honor could be brought to the family with feminine
(23:44):
ability to find her match a man. And after researching,
there was quite a bit of information on old traditions,
including a tea ceremony which would involve the female serving
tea to our possible mate and his family and if
it went well, the man would put an broadered red
bag on a saucer and then she wanted she could
accept it, much like a rose, I would think. And
(24:07):
but again this would be set up by a matchmaker.
And though the practice was common, it was not necessarily
due to forcing women to marry, but as an assistant
slash service for the family. And with that it wasn't
necessary to match a man to a woman, but it
was about finding family with family, so bringing in a
unit rather than just man woman. It was a social arrangement. Also,
(24:29):
at one point in history, matchmaker slash match brokers were
so important they are appointed by the government and given
certificates of authority. Yeah, and I think this is always
a good reminder that our current understanding of marriage and
the romantic senses actually relatively new, right, and we have
to say they're still matchmakers. Just because it may be
automated online doesn't mean they're not. That's true, we see
(24:54):
you dating apps. It should also be noted that though
there were some extreme policies in in ancient Chinese periods,
it was rare and extreme meant that they were women
were not being married by some teen If girls were
not married by choice, they would be forced to. However,
it seemed matchmakers weren't always necessary, but traditions could involve
festivals and get togethers for singles, some sort of bixer maybe.
(25:18):
For example, there was an annual mid spring meeting on
the third day of Lunar March which involved wine, so
definitely in and a lantern festivals which are still celebrated
as the Spring Lantern Festival, which happens the fifteenth day
of the first lunar month. Yes, and by the way,
it is also informally known as Chinese Mountain's Day. I
(25:38):
like that idea, right, yeah, So that's what we found
with the matchmaking, and I know there's a lot more
information and it goes into traditional marriage today. But we
also want to talk about girl worth fighting for, which
is one of the musical numbers. And definitely this implies
that women are prizes to be one that men go
(25:59):
to are with intent of winning. Someone that looks a
certain way, cooks a certain way. I definitely don't cook
a certain way. When Mulan says she's like a woman
with a brain who can also speak her mind, they're like,
uh nah, all were good, We're good. Were good? Right,
So there, yeah, but pretty much subjectifying women, painting women
(26:20):
of I want this woman to be able to meet
these needs for me, and it's mostly looks and gender stereotypes,
like she has to look a certain way, cook a
certain way. Because the audience is meant to side with Mulan, however,
and view her actions as correct. We're meant to infer
that Mulan it was right and these men are wrong.
And we can also talk about fragile masculinity moves you,
(26:41):
taking credit for successes and causing and denying most of
her failures. And when he implies he can see through
her armor and she slaps him, he threatens her with dishonor,
which is one of my favorite lines. I will say,
it's funny to see him this coercing hard to apologize
to him, though he implies that by teaching her about
masculinity is the only thing keeping her alive. He's the
(27:02):
one who outcasts her. What I mean, honestly, he caused
the fights and it's constantly making message that she has
the effects every time. Y'all. Um, Yeah, he's really sexist,
slash stupid girly capbitts. He says, with her wanting to clean,
you got to be clean. Yeah, I mean to be fair.
(27:24):
That's probably one of the moments that he did predict
something bad, what's going to happen, which all the men
and unfortunately she had to get all of the man parts.
But he was supposed to be watching out. She assigned
him with being a lookout and he failed. He did.
And another thing we can talk about when it comes
to gender stereotypes is the binary um, because it is
(27:46):
very you are this masculine trait or you are this
feminine trait? And some have argued at Munlan only succeeds
because she pretends to be a man. But I think
she succeeds by embracing both her feminine and masculine side,
by embracing all parts of herself. She uses the fan um,
(28:06):
a traditional signifier of femininity, and the sword, a traditional
sign of masculinity, to fight shown you all while wearing
a feminine but not super skimpy tight dress. So and
even in the scene where she figures out how to
get that arrow that everyone else has failed, that she
does that by kind of embracing these dual parts of
her that honestly we don't even have to necessarily label
(28:28):
masculine feminine. It's just traditionally they have been seen that way.
But that's just my view of it. I feel like
she she embraces both the things, and that's why she
she goes beyond the limits. Yes, Another another theme that
is pretty relevant throughout the this movie is fatherhood, family,
(28:51):
the idea of being a perfect daughter. Um. And and
I when I was watching this, I you know, I
came in with my like I'm going to dissect all
of these interactions, and one thing I noticed was the
interaction with the mother who is mostly silence Um, kind
of always watching and like feeling firm lan but knowing
(29:16):
that she has to this is her way of success.
And even if Mulan she knows it's not going to
be happy with it, like this is how it is.
That was just the vibe I got. And then Mulan
having this kind of like spine we call the spine
and acting or it's your whole thing, like your whole
motivation is I have got to bring honor to my father.
(29:40):
That is my whole thing. And even in her first song,
reflection Um, she's singing about like I'll never be the
perfect daughter, and that's something we've talked about a lot
on the show, the whole dutiful daughter idea and sort
of this dynamic between fathers and daughters. I mean, there
seems to be an absence of mothers when it comes
to Disney movies. If we get yeah, if we look
(30:01):
at things like Lion King in itself and you're like, what,
Mama don't care, MoMA don't in the corner, I guess, okay, okay,
but it does it kind of plays up the fatherly
man of the house. Yes, and you and I have joked,
even though I'm semi serious, that we could do a
whole like side show called Daddy Issues, where we would
(30:23):
just pick out a movie and talk about the daddy
issues in it. So many daddy issues, so many I
just want to put in here. I found an entire
seventy two page paper. Did you read it all? Oh? Yes,
I did, Uh, comparing Mulan to Mowanna, and there are
so many similarities. They're practically the same movie in a
lot of ways. Oh really, I haven't seen Mohanna, so
(30:43):
I don't know. It's good. People love it, That's very good. Yeah,
it's definitely a lot of sillarias. So Mulan's motivations are
generally selfless, but we do see the dynamic of trying
to please men, her father Shane, patriarchal society, and at
the end of the movie, she would turns home to
what we assume to be the obedient daughter. Her grandmother
(31:04):
even says, oh, great, she brought home a sword. If
you asked me, she should have brought home a man.
After all, she's done literally saving the country. They still
are more concerned about her ability to get a man. Yeah,
the emperors, as in the beginning, a single grain of
rice can tip the scale. One man may be the
difference between victory and defeat. So women are not even
(31:24):
considered a part of that equation. And then at the
end he says, you don't meet a girl like that
every dynasty, implying she's a rare specimen in somebody's kind
of mothering her. Right, that she is not like other women.
Therefore she's more likable, Right, she's better, she's superior. Um,
And you're not really going to go into this that much.
(31:46):
But Shewing is also trying to please his fathers. So
this is I actually had never really appreciated that before
until we did this research, that they have sort of
a parallel storyline of of trying to to please their
fathers honor, bring honor. Yes, um, And I do think
I remember the first time I saw Frozen, and at
(32:09):
the end I was like, finally, finally, finally, finally somebody
touched on. There are other types of love then romantic love,
but I forgot Mulan did it first? Maybe not first,
but did it before Frozen? Um, it was just between
a father and a daughter, whereas Frozen was two sisters,
so a little different, but it is really really refreshing,
(32:31):
and I think that's one of the things that helped
this movie work or feel like it was something different
than a lot of other Disney things we've seen before,
and to be real, a lot of other just media
in general you've seen before, um and something else we
wanted to touch on, or some of the queer undertones
in this movie. Some articles argue that in some ways
Mulan is a great examination of gender performance, that a
(32:54):
certain set of traits can be adopted and performed. For
jen Nerve when the men dressed as women, the song
I'll Make a Man out of You plays again, and
you can be one gender while adopting traits of another.
Gender roles can change what you already talked about before.
And at the same time, the movie shows that gender
roles are not an easy thing to break out of,
(33:17):
which is unfortunately, very obviously true. It's true. It's one
of those things where sometimes when I watch media like
that that depicts something that I know is true, there's
just something about it that gives me an anxiety, Like
I know it's true, right, but sometimes I just want
(33:38):
to see something different, different, right right? Um, I get
I get that way a lot with sexual assault, like
I know, but I don't know that we need to
see this because I feel like it's perpetuating it in
some ways, right Okay? And this I want to talk
about this question. Did Shang love ping a k A.
(34:00):
Mulan's masculine the identity she adopted? Right? Okay? So I've
always wondered this, and I'm not the only one. Apparently
Shang isn't going to be in this new live action
remake of Mulan, instead replaced by a rifle character who
wants to best her as always trying to to beat Mulan.
(34:22):
And some people are angry that a bisexual character, someone
they viewed as a bisexual character, is being removed to
make way for what sounds like, at least at the outset,
a misogynistic one. May he probably definitely changes, but sounds
that way. Um. There are a lot of articles that
you can find where people right that they consider Shang
(34:45):
a bisexual icon. And when I was watching it with
those sort of eyes this time, I had a bunch
of moments like oh yeah, coming that, and then Mulan
appears on the show Once Upon a Time, which is
a TV series with ABC, she's actually depicted bisexual. She
falls in love with Aurora, and when she comes to
confess her love, she finds that Aurora is pregnant with
(35:07):
the child with her Prince Charming, and then after that
heartbroken moment, she leaves to go be a merry man
with Robin Hood. Yes, but she was one of the
first characters on that show to be portrayed in that manner.
Later on, I want to say a little red riding
Hood is depicted as bisexual. Who pretty cool? Um, Yeah,
(35:32):
it's definitely. As I said, I've read a lot of
fan fiction and it has changed our view a lot
of movies. But seeing it with those eyes, I yeah,
I understand now that you say that. I feel like
Once Upon a Time the show that I really like it,
and I think you would like it. You really could
be like a layered fan fiction throughout. Yeah. Yeah, because
(35:54):
it takes different takes on things. I'm like, uh okay,
And we did want to end on racism just because
like it's worth mentioning. Obviously, there's definitely some racism in
this movie. Some of the the slights worse than others,
(36:17):
particularly Mushu, who I would say is the greatest offender
in most categories sexism and racism. Um, as we touched
on with that McDonald's campaign. Uh yeah, and also we
didn't really talk about this, but um, because this movie
wasn't as formulaic a i e. Not a white princess
(36:42):
in the front of it, they didn't think it was
going to be successful, so they didn't put money into it,
so that McDonald's campaign was one of the only campaigns
they did, and it was pretty racist, racist, And I
did appreciate the fact that they did have a large
cast of Asian identifying actors, which I did actually appreciate
because the majority of the time you see everything being
(37:06):
whitewashed and having these main characters actually be Asian people
when you look at it, like what I mean, now,
when is it I loved her enjoy Luck Club and
she's actually representing an Asian Chinese character. This is phenomenal
and I love it. So it did do well in
that respect, I think at that point in time, surprising
(37:26):
that they went that far. Yeah, especially considering like even now,
right even now, that is a continued conversation. And I
also appreciate that they didn't bring in a white savior.
Oh my god, yes, which, like we said, that was
part of the original script. We really Yeah, it could
have been way worse. Also, I've seen me no win
a dragon cop before and she was great. It's amazing. Um.
(37:50):
But yeah, and watching it, like the Huns, I get
that they're villains, but in some of the pictured it,
I it makes me uncomfortable. Yeah, so there's that that layer.
And then also like this is perhaps obvious, but there's
(38:11):
a lot of historical inaccuracies. Um, Like I believe the Palace,
the Forbidden Palace, wouldn't have been built at that time.
And then I read somewhere I didn't really get to
follow up on it, but I read like fa Mulan,
one is Cantonese and one is Mandarin. Like just things
like that. Um, So, always be mindful of the entertainment
(38:33):
you consume. It's totally cool to like something, but just
be aware of the messages you get in the context. Yeah,
and especially for children when we whenever we talk about
something that children consume. I I don't have kids, so
I always feel weird saying this, but I do. I
think that it's important to just before you show your
kids something, watch it and then decide, like, what is
(38:56):
there a conversation I need to have is the context
I need to provide? What are they going to take
from this? Because I think it's totally cool to show them,
but it would be helpful, um if you had that
kind of conversation before you went in. So that is
what we had to say about Mulan. And honestly, we
(39:19):
could have kept going there. I'm sure there's so much.
Oh yeah, every time I would come back, it would
come up with a new article. I'm like, son of uh,
thank you for writing so many detailed papers about Mulan,
but I don't have time to read the mall. Unfortunately,
if we missed anything, please let us know if we
(39:41):
misinterpreted anything, if you read the wrong paper, yeah, let
us know, yeah, or if you just had any different takeaways. Um,
and also let us know what our next movie. I
know we've had many a conversation we have. We need
to do a poll. You should do a poll. We've
got a couple of questions we could put them, post
them and see so look out for the poll, look
(40:04):
out for the pole, and you can email us any
suggestions at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast
or on Instagram at Stuff. I Never told You. Thanks
as always to our super producer Andrew Howard, you did it,
and thanks to you for listening. Stuff Never Told You
(40:24):
the protection of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For
more podcast from I Heart Radio, is that I Heart
Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows
Hey, this is Samantha in the Standing and welcome to stuff.
Mom never told you a production of I Heart Radios?
How stuff works? An? Yes, you know what time? It is? Three? Oh,
(00:24):
it's time for another feminist movie Friday from and It's
Mulan Editions. Is Mulan Edition, which is one of my
favorite Disney movies, especially when we talk about animated like
the classic cartoons. I love it. UM semi appropriate because
it's lunar New Year right now and as um. I
(00:45):
actually when I was in China, I was staying in Wuhan, China,
which is now the center of a lot of concern
about the coronavirus UM. But I remember when I was
there and I got to experienced lunar New Year and
it was just this amazing, amazing thing. Um. And we
wanted to talk about this movie for a while because
it does have a lot of layers to it when
(01:06):
it comes to gender performance and just gender stereotypes in general.
Speaking of I'll Make a Man out of You, one
of the songs from that movie is a very popular
song at our karaoke nights, usually paired with Shania Twains
man I Feel like a woman. We like to do
a double feature of those two songs. Okay, I've never
(01:28):
realized that it came as a double feature. I definitely
know when that song from that comes up, it brings
down most of our mill counterparts will stand up everyone
to start singing the song. There's this jet like a
fist gesture and you kind of get like on your
knees and you do it. I mean, it's excellent. It's surprising,
(01:51):
surprising as a word for it. I remember seeing this
maybe for the first time. I saw it at a
theater and Dothan alab am A and just immediately falling
in love with it and trying to see it again
and again again, right, and I remember watching it and
it is I don't love animated movies, so for me,
this is probably one of my top two three that
(02:14):
I actually will watch and really do enjoy. I think
for me, having representation even though I'm not Chinese, but
seeing a woman that is of Asian persuasion and I'm
so sorry um on screen was phenomenal. And not only
that she was not caricaturized in any way, neither were
the men, so it wasn't an overly stereotypical statement of
(02:37):
Asian people of Chinese people of any of that culture,
and it was nice to see and it made me
feel a little more included in the story, as well
as the fact that she's a strong woman who is
not necessarily trying to get the approval of any man
or husband, but trying to defend her family, which I
(02:58):
I'm all about that. Yeah, And I think it's really
good as we go into this episode to just remember
at the time when this came out, it was on
the heels of Beautying the Beast, Little Mermaids and Lion King,
and so people hadn't really seen Disney had this kind
(03:19):
of one set and Pocahontas was a little bit of
an outlier as well. But until then, you had your princess,
and she looked a certain way and behaved a certain
way and wanted ultimately to find a man. Right is
the disneyfication disneyfication of tails. Yeah. Yeah, And and as
(03:42):
we're gonna get into in a minute, we're really lucky
that we have worded that with me one. Um, but okay,
let's talk about what it is we're talking about. We
kind of chose this also because there is an upcoming
live action remake coming out March, which, yes, there has
already been some controversy around because the lead actress came
(04:04):
out against the protesters in Hong Kong. Right, Yes, so
again we're talking about the animated version, directed by Barry
Cook and Tony Bancroft's starring ming Now when Eddie Murphy
and Beatty Wong if follows fall, Mulan sort of an
outcast in her family community as she's trying to figure
out her place and who she is. The sanctioned path
(04:27):
is for her to bring honor quote unquote to her
family by marrying someone respectable. But when her elderly ill father,
the only man in the family, is conscripted as a
soldier to fight against the invasion of the Huns, Mulan
cuts off her hair and ties it up. Of course,
puts on her father's old armor and takes his place
by impersonating a man named Ping, and ultimately saves the day,
(04:50):
or the battle, or the war or China in general. Yes,
she saves a lot of things, a lot of the things.
The movie was a critical and financial success and spawned
a direct to video se equal which neither of us
have a video game, which neither of us had played
but I have played Kingdom Hearts, which she made an
appearance in, which is interesting because she's actually not a princess.
(05:11):
That's one of the things that's relatable about her. But
she's a part of the Disney Princess franchise, which is
a part of this whole Kingdom Hearts game, which if
you haven't played, I'm not going to try to explain
because it's very very very very very confusing. Yeah, apparently
she has a Deadpool came ye what's and of course
a sauce tie in with McDonald's that was later revived
(05:34):
thanks to Rick and Morty. And I never knew this.
I yeah, I had to include this. The ads for
the sauce definitely skewed racist things like China might run,
don't walk, okay, which is why the sauce was discontinued
to have a very short livespan Rick and Morty. Fans
brought it back after Rick mentioned it on the show
(05:57):
and it kind of became a running joke on the show.
Um and the Ends had this seen petition that got
it back. There was rioting. We've talked about it before
on this show. The whole thing UM a couple of
years ago, when I was at Dragon Con, it was
like the big costume at dra convers to dresses the
Schwan sauce. Yeah, so there was that at the time.
(06:21):
Mulan was yeah, quite different than a lot of previous
Disney stuff, especially when it came to the main character.
She wasn't waiting around for the day to be saved.
Her primary motivation was not romance. She fights and she
uses her brain to outsmart the enemy. She was the
first Asian main character in these Disney movies. A lot
of the animators described her as quote, not a Barbie doll,
(06:43):
making her more accessible. I still maintain she is quite thin,
but y yeah, perhaps not a Barbie doll. I mean
she's definitely animated. Then you see them dressing her up. Yeah,
they tie away and they say the line tiny waist,
it looks painful. It definitely does are painful. And This
story is based on the song of Fa Mulan, which
(07:06):
tells the story of Hua Mulan. It was combined with
a straight to video short called The China Doll, about
a miserable Chinese woman who is rescued from oppression by
a British prince. According to one of the story editors.
The first draft of this story was much more focused
on Mulan's drive to find a guy. Other versions had
(07:28):
her running away from a forced marriage or bad family situation.
The story they decided on was one motivated by love,
but love of father and country. Basically, the reason it
didn't turn out that way of like the romantic comedy
or is just trying to find a guy, is because
the higher ups at Disney weren't really paying attention to this.
(07:49):
They thought Hercules was coming out the same time, Hunchback
of Notre Dame was coming out the same time, so
they thought those were going to be their hits. Those
are the ones they were focusing on. So Mulan was
able to fly under the radar a little bit. The
team had a little bit more creative freedom than Goodness,
Thank goodness. So taking it to a historical context, fall Mulan.
The first transcript of Mulan was dated around sixth century
(08:12):
with the Ballad of Mulan, which was a folk song
originated during the north Way dynasty, and we see it
coming around again as a dramatized to act play called
the Female Milan or the heroine Mulan goes to war
in her father's place very aptly name in Fife and
then was incorporated in the seventeenth century historical novel written
by Chew Rain Hoh called Sweet Tang Romance, and there
(08:34):
was also an opera based on Mulan. Whether this warrior
was real seems debatable, as is a lot of these
stories that we talked about, hard to kneel down historical
context and historical sources, but a source of great inspiration nonetheless,
Hua Mulan Hua literally translated as flower and Mulan translated
as wood, orchid or magnolia would have existed around four
(08:56):
under twenty ninety during the north Way dynasty. There is
also a variation of the story that places Mulan in
the Tank dynasty around six. In this version, there is
another female warrior, Mulan's bonded sister or Lao Tonon Young,
the daughter of the king, that was also part of
the legend. The two bonded over their knowledge of military
(09:17):
and ability to fight, and she has a fairly interesting
legend behind her as well. You're interested in reading more, yes,
And as with the final product of the ninety animation,
most of the folklore centered around the idea of loyalty
and family, with a little splash of possible love on
the side, of course, because you've got to have that.
All the variations do incorporate that Mulan felt she needed
(09:38):
to protect her elderly father by taking his place in battle.
But it's something to note that during that time it
wasn't against the law for women to serve, and sometimes
would be drafted in specific circumstances, So the whole put
to death thing may not have happened, or may not
need to. But you know, we need that drama, right,
We need that drama. Also, there seems to be a
character missing from the animation, but may have been replaced
(09:59):
by the dog, which you said, this doesn't make sense.
When we were watching it, we know him as quote
unquote little brother when she know he chases around the
phone to feed the chickens. But in some renditions there
as a younger brother who was too young to serve,
and it is part of the story of why she
also went into war four both of them, right, and
(10:20):
in these stories. There are several variations of the ending,
but a couple include with her revealing that she is
female and walking to battle, and female clothing which inspires
the rest of the soldiers to fight and win battles.
Very inspiring. Also, some include her being promoted to general
and being a part of the military for either ten
or twelve years. It does end up with her being
honored by the emperor, very moving scenes. A few of
(10:43):
the versions of the story lead her to asking simply
for a horse and being able to return home, or
asking for money for her family. As with most good folklore,
several end with tragedy, whether she kills herself due to
being broken hearted because of her father's death before her
return home him. Also a version in which she killed
herself rather than being a concubine, or because of being
(11:06):
haunted by all the things she had seen in battle.
No matter the ending, she did and does inspire. I mean,
we're definitely getting another rendition of the tale, and apparently
big enough to get a crater on Venus named after her,
which is my that's my dream. I mean, I told
you what you need to do. Just up as a man,
go into battle, die, end of story. Okay, cool, perfect, perfect,
(11:30):
So that's sort of the historical best way we could find.
Historical Obviously a big debate about what exists what doesn't
because it came from a poem, right, yeah, And I
would love to hear from any listeners from China because
from what I read, at least at one time, it
was the thing that was just recited and well known
(11:51):
and it was a really important part of of kind
of a story you learned growing up, right, And according
to some of the context, there was a woman who
was a warrior during the Tame dynasty who they think
may have been a part of the legend as well,
and she technically existed from what I gather, it's hard
to say who mysteries of history, but we tried our best,
(12:13):
and well, I was gonna say so to Disney, but
I don't know that they did, but they definitely took
this story to a successful maybe. So we're gonna get
into that. But first we're going to get into a
quick break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back.
(12:39):
Thank you sponsors. So let's yeah, let's get into a
slightly more detailed plot. Right about this animation. If you
haven't watched it, you haven't, I would recommend you do
so because it's fun. The movie follows Milan makes surprize
when you're first to introduced to her, she's trying to
memorize the traits of being a good woman quote quiet, demure, graceful, polite, delicate, refined, poised,
(13:04):
and punctual. Oh god, she's struggling. Oh lord, already. I
love how as she's saying it, she's like staffing her
face and typing and not typing and writing on her wrist.
So she is, yeah, she writes on her arm, and
she's slobbily eating rise adjustaposition to her words. She's late,
of course, and she has a creative system for doing
(13:26):
her chores. Thanks little brother. Right, so you've already established
he's not your quote traditional lady. That she's creative and
a bit clumsy, she's brave and smart, all those things
that could be an emo song. Yeah, that's true. That's true.
It is a really good introduction to your character because
it immediately sets the tone for she's being told she
(13:48):
needs to be this, but she's clearly not that thing.
But she's trying to make it work. And when she
her father is praying to the ancestors to help move
on as she rushes into town to meet her mother
and grandfather, and that also sets up she immediately is like,
I'm going to bring honor to us all, Dad like,
I will do it, and he's like, oh please, and
(14:12):
decides to play a lot longer. Yes. Yes, So Mulan
rushes into town to meet her mother and grandmother to
get ready to meet the matchmaker. So Mulan is then washed,
her face is painted with makeup, her hair is pinned up,
which she tries to make her own by curling a
little front piece. Um. And she's dressed in a in
(14:33):
a dress. Yeah, they tie the thing around um. And
as this is happening, we get this song, our first song,
bring Honor to Us all is playing, espousing the qualities
that make a woman desirable as a wife and yes,
a tiny waist this one, and that bringing honor for
a woman means getting married. That's quickly established. Mulan's grandmother
(14:56):
gives her a lucky cricket, and one of my favorite
random facts out this movie is that most of the
creators hated the cricket. They hated him because they always
had to ask, well, what is the cricket doing during
this scene? But one of the other creators kept sliding
images of the cricket creekie under under their doors, and
so that's how we got him anyway. Mulan meets the
(15:18):
Matchmaker played by Miry Margoyles a k a. Professor Sprout
from Harry Potter. Now the message is clear. To fit
in as a woman in the society, to succeed, you
have to look and act a certain way. For the
tea a certain way, and Mulan does not fit in.
The matchmaker says too skinney, not good for bearing boys.
(15:41):
So we also get that kind of established that, yes,
having children is also a part of this being a
good woman. The way the scene plays out makes it
obvious that Mulan shapes against the system, even if she
is doing her best to to fit into it. Her
cheat notes get smudged and have done the Matchmaker's face,
(16:01):
and through a series of events, the matchmakers ask sketches
on fire, of course obviously, and Mulan put that fire
out with her pot of tea, I mean, becomes one
of the best costumes I've seen. Yes, ever have you
ever seen people cosplaying this? The matchmaker after the fact,
it's fantastic. Oh, I want to see that so badly.
(16:24):
The Matchmaker is happy about it, though, and she really
assures in front of everyone Mulan will never bring honor
to her family. She has failed both as a woman
and a daughter. Yes, her head hung glow, she walks out, yes,
and yeah, I mean we get kind of an emo moment. Yes,
then we get to our second song. Yes, a metal
(16:44):
maybe emo song. Yeah, for sure, about not recognizing yourself
in the mirror, not knowing who you are. Milan's father
tips to comfort her, but they're interrupted by soldiers coming
into town. The leader reads that one man from every
family must join the army the fight against the Huns,
and when they call Mulan's family name, her elderly ill father,
(17:05):
the only male in the family steps forward to accept
that notice. Mulan rushes forward, asking that they give her
father reprieve, but the conscriptor chief fu ties Mulan's father
for not teaching her to hold her tongue quote unquote,
and Mulan's dad says, she brings this honor to him. Awkward,
it's a really After fighting with her dad and another
(17:27):
emo music cue called scene six, I believe Um, Mulan
cuts off her hair, dons her father's armor, rides off
on their horse to the soldier encampment. Her family cannot
reveal her or she'll be executed. Her grandmother calls on
the family's ancestors to protect Mulan, and this is when
(17:47):
we get introduced to Disgrace family ancestor Mushu played by
Eddie Murphy, a small dragon who doesn't have a great
track record when it comes to protection. It's the Disgrace.
The ancestors agreed to say end out their most fierce protector,
but Mushoe accidentally destroys his statue, so pretends to be him,
(18:08):
of course, and goes in his place along with Cricky
Lucky Cricket. When we cut back to Milan, she's trying
to master her man voice, her man walk to a
little success. Mushoe appears promising to help her. He does
this whole like a big fire and brimstone thing, and
then it's revealed, Oh he's this little dragon. Um. Then
we see a series of gender stereotypes play out. I
(18:29):
guess those also with Mulan trying to be a man
fit in um with Mushoe. He's trying to like coat here,
but he's doing a terrible job, just off all and
he says things like punch it. Men like that or
slap him in the butt. They love that too. Yeah,
that's what I've been told. I you know, well, it's
a fight certainly broke out. So here we meet Shane,
(18:53):
who was eager to also get his father's approval. What
follows is a training montage set to I'll make him
in out of you, and hopefully we've got a clip
for you to watch as well of this, I'm gonna
make this happen, where we see Mulan struggle through training,
but she perseveres. Then, not only that, she figures out
how to retrieve the arrow shame shot into the top
of the wooden pole, something no one else was able
(19:15):
to do, by the way, and by doing this she
earns the respect of the other soldiers. Thank god. This
all with the lyrics playing out reinforcing the gender stereotypes
that Mulan is breaking. Quote did they send me daughters
when I asked for sons? Yes, maybe they did. The
whole implication that quote being a man is the only
(19:36):
acceptable way of strength in warfare. We see her unique
set of skills play out again after they discovered that
the soldiers of steering his father was massacred along with
his father, and they are attacked by the huns in
a mountain path down to one firecracker. Mulan shoots it
to the top of the mountain, causing an avalanche that
swamps the Huns. Yeah. And then and then Mulan on
(20:00):
It's wounded in the process, and it's revealed that she
is oh woman, what treacherous snake. Instead of executing her,
Shane spares her, saying a life for a life. Yeah.
And then Mulan is left on the mountain with her horse,
Creaky and Mushoe. She laments that when she looks at
her reflection she still sees nothing by a girl. No,
(20:23):
but she does see the Hans rise out of the
snow and head to the city. She heads down to
warn them, but of course they refused to listen now
that she's a woman. Yeah, shame as she said, you
said you trusted ping. Why is Mulan any different? And
they're like, uh, this is so fun. Samantha and I
of course did her thing where we watched this in preparation.
We had our date night and Samantha was making fun
(20:44):
of me because I was so interest even though I've
seen it a million times. I was like, you know,
my favorite will be like, oh my god, are you
really shocked by this. Have you not seen this? What's happening?
I just get invested. You surely do, and I love
watching just for that. I get really into it. Okay,
So the Huns appear and they kidnapped the Emperor. Mulan
was felling the truth. Turns out, Mulan comes up with
(21:07):
a plan that involves the men addressing as concubines, using
her earlier technique of climbing the wooden pole that she
she perfected at the soldier encampment, and then they attack
the Hun soldiers. Using her brain, her strength, and her
newfound skills, She's able to free the Emperor, save Shang,
and save China. Not bad. The Emperor gives her a job.
(21:30):
She foush job after he says she an she'll never
obey a way with anything. He's terrible. Uh. The Emperor
gives Mulan his crest and the sword of Sean, You
the leader of the Huns, for all that she's done,
which Mulan, after everyone bows to her in a very
moving scene, prompably gives to her father. He drops these items,
(21:51):
hugging her instead and saying the greatest honor is having
you for a daughter. Then Shang shows up, who did
a terrible job flirting earlier, telling her you fight good. Uh,
and he also does a terrible job now. So Mulan
takes charge and invites him to dinner. Her honor is restored,
(22:12):
moves shoes, honor is restored, He's made in a family
ancestral guardian once again, and Shanks is restored. I guess
found Yeah anyway, um, Happily ever after, cut to ninety
degrees plus the Wonder plus Stevie Wonder and for for
younger folks listening, ninety degrees was a band in the
vein of Backstreet boys and didn't sink and maybe handsome brand. Yeah,
(22:37):
no offense ninety eight degrees, but they were kind of like,
you know, your second tier you tried, Oh well you
got at the end of Mulan. So they did something
we haven't done. Give me a minute, put down your
sparkling water, and here we go. Okay, So that's that's
the basic plot. But obviously we want to we want
(22:59):
to get into some of the tropes in this movie
that we can we can really talk about. But first
we're gonna get into one more quick break for a
word from our sponsor and we're back, Thank you sponsor.
(23:23):
And yeah, there there are a lot of things in
this movie when it comes to gender stereotypes that we
can talk about, and one of them that we we
wanted to touch on was this whole idea of the matchmaker, right,
so I was very curious after watching the scene with
the musical number bring honor to us all, and of
course with all the implications that a matchmaker would define
whether honor could be brought to the family with feminine
(23:44):
ability to find her match a man. And after researching,
there was quite a bit of information on old traditions,
including a tea ceremony which would involve the female serving
tea to our possible mate and his family and if
it went well, the man would put an broadered red
bag on a saucer and then she wanted she could
accept it, much like a rose, I would think. And
(24:07):
but again this would be set up by a matchmaker.
And though the practice was common, it was not necessarily
due to forcing women to marry, but as an assistant
slash service for the family. And with that it wasn't
necessary to match a man to a woman, but it
was about finding family with family, so bringing in a
unit rather than just man woman. It was a social arrangement. Also,
(24:29):
at one point in history, matchmaker slash match brokers were
so important they are appointed by the government and given
certificates of authority. Yeah, and I think this is always
a good reminder that our current understanding of marriage and
the romantic senses actually relatively new, right, and we have
to say they're still matchmakers. Just because it may be
automated online doesn't mean they're not. That's true, we see
(24:54):
you dating apps. It should also be noted that though
there were some extreme policies in in ancient Chinese periods,
it was rare and extreme meant that they were women
were not being married by some teen If girls were
not married by choice, they would be forced to. However,
it seemed matchmakers weren't always necessary, but traditions could involve
festivals and get togethers for singles, some sort of bixer maybe.
(25:18):
For example, there was an annual mid spring meeting on
the third day of Lunar March which involved wine, so
definitely in and a lantern festivals which are still celebrated
as the Spring Lantern Festival, which happens the fifteenth day
of the first lunar month. Yes, and by the way,
it is also informally known as Chinese Mountain's Day. I
(25:38):
like that idea, right, yeah, So that's what we found
with the matchmaking, and I know there's a lot more
information and it goes into traditional marriage today. But we
also want to talk about girl worth fighting for, which
is one of the musical numbers. And definitely this implies
that women are prizes to be one that men go
(25:59):
to are with intent of winning. Someone that looks a
certain way, cooks a certain way. I definitely don't cook
a certain way. When Mulan says she's like a woman
with a brain who can also speak her mind, they're like,
uh nah, all were good, We're good. Were good? Right,
So there, yeah, but pretty much subjectifying women, painting women
(26:20):
of I want this woman to be able to meet
these needs for me, and it's mostly looks and gender stereotypes,
like she has to look a certain way, cook a
certain way. Because the audience is meant to side with Mulan, however,
and view her actions as correct. We're meant to infer
that Mulan it was right and these men are wrong.
And we can also talk about fragile masculinity moves you,
(26:41):
taking credit for successes and causing and denying most of
her failures. And when he implies he can see through
her armor and she slaps him, he threatens her with dishonor,
which is one of my favorite lines. I will say,
it's funny to see him this coercing hard to apologize
to him, though he implies that by teaching her about
masculinity is the only thing keeping her alive. He's the
(27:02):
one who outcasts her. What I mean, honestly, he caused
the fights and it's constantly making message that she has
the effects every time. Y'all. Um, Yeah, he's really sexist,
slash stupid girly capbitts. He says, with her wanting to clean,
you got to be clean. Yeah, I mean to be fair.
(27:24):
That's probably one of the moments that he did predict
something bad, what's going to happen, which all the men
and unfortunately she had to get all of the man parts.
But he was supposed to be watching out. She assigned
him with being a lookout and he failed. He did.
And another thing we can talk about when it comes
to gender stereotypes is the binary um, because it is
(27:46):
very you are this masculine trait or you are this
feminine trait? And some have argued at Munlan only succeeds
because she pretends to be a man. But I think
she succeeds by embracing both her feminine and masculine side,
by embracing all parts of herself. She uses the fan um,
(28:06):
a traditional signifier of femininity, and the sword, a traditional
sign of masculinity, to fight shown you all while wearing
a feminine but not super skimpy tight dress. So and
even in the scene where she figures out how to
get that arrow that everyone else has failed, that she
does that by kind of embracing these dual parts of
her that honestly we don't even have to necessarily label
(28:28):
masculine feminine. It's just traditionally they have been seen that way.
But that's just my view of it. I feel like
she she embraces both the things, and that's why she
she goes beyond the limits. Yes, Another another theme that
is pretty relevant throughout the this movie is fatherhood, family,
(28:51):
the idea of being a perfect daughter. Um. And and
I when I was watching this, I you know, I
came in with my like I'm going to dissect all
of these interactions, and one thing I noticed was the
interaction with the mother who is mostly silence Um, kind
of always watching and like feeling firm lan but knowing
(29:16):
that she has to this is her way of success.
And even if Mulan she knows it's not going to
be happy with it, like this is how it is.
That was just the vibe I got. And then Mulan
having this kind of like spine we call the spine
and acting or it's your whole thing, like your whole
motivation is I have got to bring honor to my father.
(29:40):
That is my whole thing. And even in her first song,
reflection Um, she's singing about like I'll never be the
perfect daughter, and that's something we've talked about a lot
on the show, the whole dutiful daughter idea and sort
of this dynamic between fathers and daughters. I mean, there
seems to be an absence of mothers when it comes
to Disney movies. If we get yeah, if we look
(30:01):
at things like Lion King in itself and you're like, what,
Mama don't care, MoMA don't in the corner, I guess, okay, okay,
but it does it kind of plays up the fatherly
man of the house. Yes, and you and I have joked,
even though I'm semi serious, that we could do a
whole like side show called Daddy Issues, where we would
(30:23):
just pick out a movie and talk about the daddy
issues in it. So many daddy issues, so many I
just want to put in here. I found an entire
seventy two page paper. Did you read it all? Oh? Yes,
I did, Uh, comparing Mulan to Mowanna, and there are
so many similarities. They're practically the same movie in a
lot of ways. Oh really, I haven't seen Mohanna, so
(30:43):
I don't know. It's good. People love it, That's very good. Yeah,
it's definitely a lot of sillarias. So Mulan's motivations are
generally selfless, but we do see the dynamic of trying
to please men, her father Shane, patriarchal society, and at
the end of the movie, she would turns home to
what we assume to be the obedient daughter. Her grandmother
(31:04):
even says, oh, great, she brought home a sword. If
you asked me, she should have brought home a man.
After all, she's done literally saving the country. They still
are more concerned about her ability to get a man. Yeah,
the emperors, as in the beginning, a single grain of
rice can tip the scale. One man may be the
difference between victory and defeat. So women are not even
(31:24):
considered a part of that equation. And then at the
end he says, you don't meet a girl like that
every dynasty, implying she's a rare specimen in somebody's kind
of mothering her. Right, that she is not like other women.
Therefore she's more likable, Right, she's better, she's superior. Um,
And you're not really going to go into this that much.
(31:46):
But Shewing is also trying to please his fathers. So
this is I actually had never really appreciated that before
until we did this research, that they have sort of
a parallel storyline of of trying to to please their
fathers honor, bring honor. Yes, um, And I do think
I remember the first time I saw Frozen, and at
(32:09):
the end I was like, finally, finally, finally, finally somebody
touched on. There are other types of love then romantic love,
but I forgot Mulan did it first? Maybe not first,
but did it before Frozen? Um, it was just between
a father and a daughter, whereas Frozen was two sisters,
so a little different, but it is really really refreshing,
(32:31):
and I think that's one of the things that helped
this movie work or feel like it was something different
than a lot of other Disney things we've seen before,
and to be real, a lot of other just media
in general you've seen before, um and something else we
wanted to touch on, or some of the queer undertones
in this movie. Some articles argue that in some ways
Mulan is a great examination of gender performance, that a
(32:54):
certain set of traits can be adopted and performed. For
jen Nerve when the men dressed as women, the song
I'll Make a Man out of You plays again, and
you can be one gender while adopting traits of another.
Gender roles can change what you already talked about before.
And at the same time, the movie shows that gender
roles are not an easy thing to break out of,
(33:17):
which is unfortunately, very obviously true. It's true. It's one
of those things where sometimes when I watch media like
that that depicts something that I know is true, there's
just something about it that gives me an anxiety, Like
I know it's true, right, but sometimes I just want
(33:38):
to see something different, different, right right? Um, I get
I get that way a lot with sexual assault, like
I know, but I don't know that we need to
see this because I feel like it's perpetuating it in
some ways, right Okay? And this I want to talk
about this question. Did Shang love ping a k A.
(34:00):
Mulan's masculine the identity she adopted? Right? Okay? So I've
always wondered this, and I'm not the only one. Apparently
Shang isn't going to be in this new live action
remake of Mulan, instead replaced by a rifle character who
wants to best her as always trying to to beat Mulan.
(34:22):
And some people are angry that a bisexual character, someone
they viewed as a bisexual character, is being removed to
make way for what sounds like, at least at the outset,
a misogynistic one. May he probably definitely changes, but sounds
that way. Um. There are a lot of articles that
you can find where people right that they consider Shang
(34:45):
a bisexual icon. And when I was watching it with
those sort of eyes this time, I had a bunch
of moments like oh yeah, coming that, and then Mulan
appears on the show Once Upon a Time, which is
a TV series with ABC, she's actually depicted bisexual. She
falls in love with Aurora, and when she comes to
confess her love, she finds that Aurora is pregnant with
(35:07):
the child with her Prince Charming, and then after that
heartbroken moment, she leaves to go be a merry man
with Robin Hood. Yes, but she was one of the
first characters on that show to be portrayed in that manner.
Later on, I want to say a little red riding
Hood is depicted as bisexual. Who pretty cool? Um, Yeah,
(35:32):
it's definitely. As I said, I've read a lot of
fan fiction and it has changed our view a lot
of movies. But seeing it with those eyes, I yeah,
I understand now that you say that. I feel like
Once Upon a Time the show that I really like it,
and I think you would like it. You really could
be like a layered fan fiction throughout. Yeah. Yeah, because
(35:54):
it takes different takes on things. I'm like, uh okay,
And we did want to end on racism just because
like it's worth mentioning. Obviously, there's definitely some racism in
this movie. Some of the the slights worse than others,
(36:17):
particularly Mushu, who I would say is the greatest offender
in most categories sexism and racism. Um, as we touched
on with that McDonald's campaign. Uh yeah, and also we
didn't really talk about this, but um, because this movie
wasn't as formulaic a i e. Not a white princess
(36:42):
in the front of it, they didn't think it was
going to be successful, so they didn't put money into it,
so that McDonald's campaign was one of the only campaigns
they did, and it was pretty racist, racist, And I
did appreciate the fact that they did have a large
cast of Asian identifying actors, which I did actually appreciate
because the majority of the time you see everything being
(37:06):
whitewashed and having these main characters actually be Asian people
when you look at it, like what I mean, now,
when is it I loved her enjoy Luck Club and
she's actually representing an Asian Chinese character. This is phenomenal
and I love it. So it did do well in
that respect, I think at that point in time, surprising
(37:26):
that they went that far. Yeah, especially considering like even now,
right even now, that is a continued conversation. And I
also appreciate that they didn't bring in a white savior.
Oh my god, yes, which, like we said, that was
part of the original script. We really Yeah, it could
have been way worse. Also, I've seen me no win
a dragon cop before and she was great. It's amazing. Um.
(37:50):
But yeah, and watching it, like the Huns, I get
that they're villains, but in some of the pictured it,
I it makes me uncomfortable. Yeah, so there's that that layer.
And then also like this is perhaps obvious, but there's
(38:11):
a lot of historical inaccuracies. Um, Like I believe the Palace,
the Forbidden Palace, wouldn't have been built at that time.
And then I read somewhere I didn't really get to
follow up on it, but I read like fa Mulan,
one is Cantonese and one is Mandarin. Like just things
like that. Um, So, always be mindful of the entertainment
(38:33):
you consume. It's totally cool to like something, but just
be aware of the messages you get in the context. Yeah,
and especially for children when we whenever we talk about
something that children consume. I I don't have kids, so
I always feel weird saying this, but I do. I
think that it's important to just before you show your
kids something, watch it and then decide, like, what is
(38:56):
there a conversation I need to have is the context
I need to provide? What are they going to take
from this? Because I think it's totally cool to show them,
but it would be helpful, um if you had that
kind of conversation before you went in. So that is
what we had to say about Mulan. And honestly, we
(39:19):
could have kept going there. I'm sure there's so much.
Oh yeah, every time I would come back, it would
come up with a new article. I'm like, son of uh,
thank you for writing so many detailed papers about Mulan,
but I don't have time to read the mall. Unfortunately,
if we missed anything, please let us know if we
(39:41):
misinterpreted anything, if you read the wrong paper, yeah, let
us know, yeah, or if you just had any different takeaways. Um,
and also let us know what our next movie. I
know we've had many a conversation we have. We need
to do a poll. You should do a poll. We've
got a couple of questions we could put them, post
them and see so look out for the poll, look
(40:04):
out for the pole, and you can email us any
suggestions at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast
or on Instagram at Stuff. I Never told You. Thanks
as always to our super producer Andrew Howard, you did it,
and thanks to you for listening. Stuff Never Told You
(40:24):
the protection of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For
more podcast from I Heart Radio, is that I Heart
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