July 22, 2025 • 13 mins
Anney and Samantha sing the praises of Ava Xiao-Lin Rigelhaupt, who has done groundbreaking work in the theater world.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm welcome to stuff I never told you, production I
heard you.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
And welcome to another activist around the world. And today
we are looking at the works of Ava Shaolin, Regal
Hopt who you know. I'm very excited because I love
the theater and we're talking Broadway. Annie, how many have
you actually gone.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
To New York to see Broadway shows?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
You have? Right?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
How many have you seen.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
In New York?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Five or six? Five or six? Nice favorite? I guess
I think I can think a guess, Timilton.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, I did see the I actually saw the American
Idiot green Day Broadway show.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
This is so funny to me because I have yet
to go to any shows Broadway, which I haven't but
a few times if we've been to New York, there's
not been shows that I've wanted to go see because
I'm very selective and I'm old school and.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
What I like.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
But I think it's funny because you who do not
like musicals or have said you don't like musicals, have
seen a lot of musicals.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I sure do love musicals, but.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
It's almost always like like you know, green Day, that
was just pretty much the music day Hamilton doesn't stop
for dialogue, so I'm not scared about when they'll start
singing again, which is my real thing.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
And then a bunch of the other ones like, no,
it's if they stop and they're talking and then they
start singing again.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I don't know when it's coming.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Really, because I'm like, that's why I'm confused, as Hamilton
is a musical musical and people usually don't like the
singing part.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Oh no, it's to me.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
It's just I don't and the song is going to
start again. And then I saw, like, I saw Daniel
Radclff's play because I like Bigga Radcliffs. It was I
saw that one, and I saw the recent one.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Win Money or whatever whatever. It was a recent one. Yeah,
I think he's been another one more recently.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
This was a while ago.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Okay, Okay, okay, this is this is why I laugh
because I'm like, okay, you know what. I appreciate the level.
It is a very specific dislike of it within the musical,
which is interesting. It like it's just a nervous nervous
That's okay, because I have friends who hate musicals because
they just hate that they break out in song and
just in general, they have to sing through life, not
(02:33):
like why do you have to sing it?
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I'm like why not? Like I don't understand.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Also wanted to shout out my niece Gracie, who just
fundraised and produced and directed a show here in Atlanta
next to Normal, which people probably know it. It was
pretty much sold out for a three day run.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Really proud of her.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Really great topic, kind of along the lines of what
we're talking about. Yeah, Crazy, I know, right, I gave
a little money. I didn't get go show see the show,
but I was like, ah, so proud of you. My
mom and my sister her mother were very proud of
her and gloded and for them to say, like, because
it's a pretty heavy topic.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
One, so shout out to my niece Crazy. She's not
gonna listen to this, but shout out to her anyway. Again.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
So for our Broadway nerds, we are talking about Regal
Hop's work, which includes How to Dance in Ohio. The
play centers around seven young people with autism and how
they navigate preparing for a spring formal dance at their school,
and the play features seven actors with autism and Rego
hopt was on as the first ever creative consultant with
(03:43):
autism for the groundbreaking show on Broadway. So she broke
some barriers there and I'd love to see it. But
of course this isn't the only work she has been
credited with. But before we start there, we do want
to talk a little bit more about her. But as
a Chinese jew Wish adoptee with autism who grew up
in Columbus, Ohio, which by the way, was a coincidence
(04:06):
with the play, raised by a single mother. And this
is from her LinkedIn. She writes, Hello, I'm a writer, consultant,
public speaker, and actress as a Chinese Jewish autistic, transracial adoptee.
I shared my lived experience in a way that's easily
understandable and entertaining for a wide audience. I can write
and have lit my expertise for newer typical and newer
(04:28):
diverse characters. So I just loved her introduction. I think
she goes by XL rigalhopt or Ava XL and you
can look up her LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
She has her information. We should really have her on
the show, to be honest.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
But again, we look at these people, we're like, oh wow,
and then realize later that we would love them on
the show, so put a pin in that going on.
In an interview with hollyod Reporter, she talks about her
experiences growing up and another quote from her from that
Hollywood Reporter article, my life was filled with infusion and
loneliness and frustration. In middle school, I was a perpetual outcast,
(05:04):
like an alien that no one knew how to talk to.
My classmates gradually stopped interacting with me. But at home,
my mom, creative and quirky in her own right, embraced
my idiosyncrasies. Nevertheless, it still felt like there was an
impenetrable gap in our communication. And it was during her
senior year in high school that someone noted that she
may be neud divergent and encouraged her to get an
(05:25):
evaluation for possible autism. And it was just before her
beginnings at Sarah Lawrence she began to understand and researched
her diagnosis. So it did come back that yes, she
was autistic and trying to navigate this new world was
different for her, but she was able to get some
help in perspective in the theater world in her sophomore
I believe junior year of college. So here's what she
(05:46):
told The Hollywood Reporter. The summer after my sophomore year,
I landed in internship with Trinity Rep, Rhode Island's Tony
Award winning theater. There, I worked on sincerity friendly performances
and established relationships.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
With local autistic artists.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
This experience led to a leap of faith and an
unexpected gap year enhancing their accessibility initiatives. While scary autistic
people typically don't like change, this was a formative year,
my first foray into accessible theater. It was also the
first time I had autistic friends. Our group wrote down
stigmas culminating in a professional performance at the Provincetown, Tennessee
(06:24):
Williams Theater Festival. And perhaps more importantly, it was the
first time I felt fully accepted and supported in the theater.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
I love that, and.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
As a theater kid myself, that says so much. Because
we were a group, we were a mesh that came
from every different.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Lake, socio, whatever stance you came in with.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Garrett's like a popular kids, Jacques, the nerds, the outcasts,
we were all came together and it was beautiful.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
It felt like we were in our own little world.
Outside of the high.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
School, which was so yeah, you know what I mean,
m h. And of course this was just the beginning
of her walk in theater life. After graduating college, she
applied and worked with Disability Belongs, a program for people
(07:16):
with disabilities in the entertainment world. So a bit about
them from their site respectability dot org. They write, the
Disability Belongs Entertainment Lab is for disabled creatives working in development,
production and our post production and careers as writers, directors, producers, cinematographers, animators,
and other production roles. So they've been around since twenty
(07:37):
nineteen helping to create supportive networks and hosting labs that
allows for collaboration, feedback, and mentorship. And one step further,
they quote connect disabled creatives to studio executives and other
decision makers who will provide mentorship, leading and higher employment
rates among the talent pipeline of alumni. I actually really
(07:58):
love that because we know a lot of adulthood is
about the people. You know, I wouldn't be here if
it weren't for you in Caroline, so you know, you
gotta know some people sometimes. And soon Riegelhopt was able
to connect with decision makers that would lead her into
the entertainment industry. Through Disability Belongs, She's been able to
(08:18):
consult on many major projects, including being able to write
for television shows and different networks. And again this eventually
led her to working with the Broadway hit How To
Dance in Ohio. So again back to that Hollywood Reporter article,
she writes, my job was to ensure authentic, autistic representation
and accessibility in all aspects of production, both internally and externally.
(08:41):
What does that mean? It means working with the writer
and composer to ensure the script has authentic characters and
proper disability language to having unsentsed soap in the bathrooms.
It means creating a space where everyone is welcome, acknowledged,
and celebrated and can thrive. Our work was groundbreaking. The
Drama Desk Committee gave us a special award for autistic representation,
(09:01):
and another gift was seeing the standing ovations and long
lines at the stage door with autistic fans, their families
and friends, thrilled and overwhelmed to finally see themselves on
a Broadway stage. Again very important, and she talked about
how accessibility is so important for audience members as well.
In a roundtable to talk with creatives with a disability
(09:23):
in theater for the Americantheater dot Org and she says
this why how are today is in Ohio, god autistic
audience is many nights, not just certain nights. It's probably
because of our show's topic, but also because we got
the word out you're welcome here. This show and our
audience accessibility offerings were made with you in mind. This
culture shift takes work, but the first step is just
(09:46):
to start a dialogue with the disability community to ask
what can we as a theater person artist do to
be more accessible because we want you in our audience,
which is obviously what we're talking about. Often, you can't
do this without people on hand that truly understand the
experience and what people are going through with those lived
(10:08):
experiences right. And she talks even more about how the
director made sure they knew that the show wasn't just
art or just a play, but a quote piece of
activism and how she is really taking that heart, noting
that having people with disabilities being at the center of
the projects, including for actors, writers and others in the field,
be the people who truly know these stories and again
(10:30):
lived these lives. She says this in the direct Talk
podcast quote, the autism community and the disability community want
to remind people that whenever you make something about us,
it should be with us, you know, as writers, producers, consultants,
so that we can share our true lived experience and
it can be a better show. And again, she has
(10:51):
been busy working with PBS as a writer and creator,
recently working on a show called Carl the Collector, which
centers the show on a raccoon with autism named Carl,
and the animation.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Is super cute, super super cute.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
I think it got canceled recently, but we know PBS
has its own thing going on right now, so there's
a lot, but you should definitely go and look those up.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Again.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
He and his friends, Carl and his friends and families
share their lives together, learning more about each other and
many life lessons together, helping everyone to learn to better
understand each other and how to care and empathize with
one another. She talks about one specific episode that she
helped in because the raccoon couldn't show empathy when something happened,
(11:38):
but had to explain why because the way that they
communicate could not you know, be immediate. So it was
a beautiful episode that she really really related to obviously
and was really excited about being featured. She also wrote
a short film following a trans Rachel adoptees experience during
Chinese New Year, which I am very interested in and
I have to look this up and I'm excited to
(12:00):
see more of her work. Yeah, we probably should have
her on the show have a conversation about theater world
and such.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Right, yes, oh my goodness, you you would get to
nerd out.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
It couldn't be amazing. I would sit back and watch it.
I think you would nerd out about some things too.
I have a feeling. I have a feelingly I would
love it. Either way, it would be great.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Well, hopefully we can make that happen in the future,
but in the meantime, listeners, if you have any suggestions
for this topic, if you have any thoughts about musicals.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Please hello my favorite le miss, come talk to me.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah, that's you.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
You can write to us.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
You can email us at Hello at stuff whenever build
You dot com. You can find us on Blue Sky
at moms a podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok and
stuff Whenever Told You rus on YouTube, and we have
a book you can get wherever you get your books.
Thanks as always too our super duced Christina axecutive producer,
my Ander Triger, Joey, thank you and thanks to you
for listening stuff Never told you Protection by a Heeart Radio.
For more podcasts or my Heart Radio, you can check
out the iHeartRadio, ap Apple podcast, or wherever you listen
(13:06):
to your favorite shows,
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm welcome to stuff I never told you, production I
heard you.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
And welcome to another activist around the world. And today
we are looking at the works of Ava Shaolin, Regal
Hopt who you know. I'm very excited because I love
the theater and we're talking Broadway. Annie, how many have
you actually gone.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
To New York to see Broadway shows?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
You have? Right?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
How many have you seen.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
In New York?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Five or six? Five or six? Nice favorite? I guess
I think I can think a guess, Timilton.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, I did see the I actually saw the American
Idiot green Day Broadway show.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
This is so funny to me because I have yet
to go to any shows Broadway, which I haven't but
a few times if we've been to New York, there's
not been shows that I've wanted to go see because
I'm very selective and I'm old school and.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
What I like.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
But I think it's funny because you who do not
like musicals or have said you don't like musicals, have
seen a lot of musicals.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I sure do love musicals, but.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
It's almost always like like you know, green Day, that
was just pretty much the music day Hamilton doesn't stop
for dialogue, so I'm not scared about when they'll start
singing again, which is my real thing.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
And then a bunch of the other ones like, no,
it's if they stop and they're talking and then they
start singing again.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I don't know when it's coming.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Really, because I'm like, that's why I'm confused, as Hamilton
is a musical musical and people usually don't like the
singing part.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Oh no, it's to me.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
It's just I don't and the song is going to
start again. And then I saw, like, I saw Daniel
Radclff's play because I like Bigga Radcliffs. It was I
saw that one, and I saw the recent one.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Win Money or whatever whatever. It was a recent one. Yeah,
I think he's been another one more recently.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
This was a while ago.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Okay, Okay, okay, this is this is why I laugh
because I'm like, okay, you know what. I appreciate the level.
It is a very specific dislike of it within the musical,
which is interesting. It like it's just a nervous nervous
That's okay, because I have friends who hate musicals because
they just hate that they break out in song and
just in general, they have to sing through life, not
(02:33):
like why do you have to sing it?
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I'm like why not? Like I don't understand.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Also wanted to shout out my niece Gracie, who just
fundraised and produced and directed a show here in Atlanta
next to Normal, which people probably know it. It was
pretty much sold out for a three day run.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Really proud of her.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Really great topic, kind of along the lines of what
we're talking about. Yeah, Crazy, I know, right, I gave
a little money. I didn't get go show see the show,
but I was like, ah, so proud of you. My
mom and my sister her mother were very proud of
her and gloded and for them to say, like, because
it's a pretty heavy topic.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
One, so shout out to my niece Crazy. She's not
gonna listen to this, but shout out to her anyway. Again.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
So for our Broadway nerds, we are talking about Regal
Hop's work, which includes How to Dance in Ohio. The
play centers around seven young people with autism and how
they navigate preparing for a spring formal dance at their school,
and the play features seven actors with autism and Rego
hopt was on as the first ever creative consultant with
(03:43):
autism for the groundbreaking show on Broadway. So she broke
some barriers there and I'd love to see it. But
of course this isn't the only work she has been
credited with. But before we start there, we do want
to talk a little bit more about her. But as
a Chinese jew Wish adoptee with autism who grew up
in Columbus, Ohio, which by the way, was a coincidence
(04:06):
with the play, raised by a single mother. And this
is from her LinkedIn. She writes, Hello, I'm a writer, consultant,
public speaker, and actress as a Chinese Jewish autistic, transracial adoptee.
I shared my lived experience in a way that's easily
understandable and entertaining for a wide audience. I can write
and have lit my expertise for newer typical and newer
(04:28):
diverse characters. So I just loved her introduction. I think
she goes by XL rigalhopt or Ava XL and you
can look up her LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
She has her information. We should really have her on
the show, to be honest.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
But again, we look at these people, we're like, oh wow,
and then realize later that we would love them on
the show, so put a pin in that going on.
In an interview with hollyod Reporter, she talks about her
experiences growing up and another quote from her from that
Hollywood Reporter article, my life was filled with infusion and
loneliness and frustration. In middle school, I was a perpetual outcast,
(05:04):
like an alien that no one knew how to talk to.
My classmates gradually stopped interacting with me. But at home,
my mom, creative and quirky in her own right, embraced
my idiosyncrasies. Nevertheless, it still felt like there was an
impenetrable gap in our communication. And it was during her
senior year in high school that someone noted that she
may be neud divergent and encouraged her to get an
(05:25):
evaluation for possible autism. And it was just before her
beginnings at Sarah Lawrence she began to understand and researched
her diagnosis. So it did come back that yes, she
was autistic and trying to navigate this new world was
different for her, but she was able to get some
help in perspective in the theater world in her sophomore
I believe junior year of college. So here's what she
(05:46):
told The Hollywood Reporter. The summer after my sophomore year,
I landed in internship with Trinity Rep, Rhode Island's Tony
Award winning theater. There, I worked on sincerity friendly performances
and established relationships.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
With local autistic artists.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
This experience led to a leap of faith and an
unexpected gap year enhancing their accessibility initiatives. While scary autistic
people typically don't like change, this was a formative year,
my first foray into accessible theater. It was also the
first time I had autistic friends. Our group wrote down
stigmas culminating in a professional performance at the Provincetown, Tennessee
(06:24):
Williams Theater Festival. And perhaps more importantly, it was the
first time I felt fully accepted and supported in the theater.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
I love that, and.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
As a theater kid myself, that says so much. Because
we were a group, we were a mesh that came
from every different.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Lake, socio, whatever stance you came in with.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Garrett's like a popular kids, Jacques, the nerds, the outcasts,
we were all came together and it was beautiful.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
It felt like we were in our own little world.
Outside of the high.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
School, which was so yeah, you know what I mean,
m h. And of course this was just the beginning
of her walk in theater life. After graduating college, she
applied and worked with Disability Belongs, a program for people
(07:16):
with disabilities in the entertainment world. So a bit about
them from their site respectability dot org. They write, the
Disability Belongs Entertainment Lab is for disabled creatives working in development,
production and our post production and careers as writers, directors, producers, cinematographers, animators,
and other production roles. So they've been around since twenty
(07:37):
nineteen helping to create supportive networks and hosting labs that
allows for collaboration, feedback, and mentorship. And one step further,
they quote connect disabled creatives to studio executives and other
decision makers who will provide mentorship, leading and higher employment
rates among the talent pipeline of alumni. I actually really
(07:58):
love that because we know a lot of adulthood is
about the people. You know, I wouldn't be here if
it weren't for you in Caroline, so you know, you
gotta know some people sometimes. And soon Riegelhopt was able
to connect with decision makers that would lead her into
the entertainment industry. Through Disability Belongs, She's been able to
(08:18):
consult on many major projects, including being able to write
for television shows and different networks. And again this eventually
led her to working with the Broadway hit How To
Dance in Ohio. So again back to that Hollywood Reporter article,
she writes, my job was to ensure authentic, autistic representation
and accessibility in all aspects of production, both internally and externally.
(08:41):
What does that mean? It means working with the writer
and composer to ensure the script has authentic characters and
proper disability language to having unsentsed soap in the bathrooms.
It means creating a space where everyone is welcome, acknowledged,
and celebrated and can thrive. Our work was groundbreaking. The
Drama Desk Committee gave us a special award for autistic representation,
(09:01):
and another gift was seeing the standing ovations and long
lines at the stage door with autistic fans, their families
and friends, thrilled and overwhelmed to finally see themselves on
a Broadway stage. Again very important, and she talked about
how accessibility is so important for audience members as well.
In a roundtable to talk with creatives with a disability
(09:23):
in theater for the Americantheater dot Org and she says
this why how are today is in Ohio, god autistic
audience is many nights, not just certain nights. It's probably
because of our show's topic, but also because we got
the word out you're welcome here. This show and our
audience accessibility offerings were made with you in mind. This
culture shift takes work, but the first step is just
(09:46):
to start a dialogue with the disability community to ask
what can we as a theater person artist do to
be more accessible because we want you in our audience,
which is obviously what we're talking about. Often, you can't
do this without people on hand that truly understand the
experience and what people are going through with those lived
(10:08):
experiences right. And she talks even more about how the
director made sure they knew that the show wasn't just
art or just a play, but a quote piece of
activism and how she is really taking that heart, noting
that having people with disabilities being at the center of
the projects, including for actors, writers and others in the field,
be the people who truly know these stories and again
(10:30):
lived these lives. She says this in the direct Talk
podcast quote, the autism community and the disability community want
to remind people that whenever you make something about us,
it should be with us, you know, as writers, producers, consultants,
so that we can share our true lived experience and
it can be a better show. And again, she has
(10:51):
been busy working with PBS as a writer and creator,
recently working on a show called Carl the Collector, which
centers the show on a raccoon with autism named Carl,
and the animation.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Is super cute, super super cute.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
I think it got canceled recently, but we know PBS
has its own thing going on right now, so there's
a lot, but you should definitely go and look those up.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Again.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
He and his friends, Carl and his friends and families
share their lives together, learning more about each other and
many life lessons together, helping everyone to learn to better
understand each other and how to care and empathize with
one another. She talks about one specific episode that she
helped in because the raccoon couldn't show empathy when something happened,
(11:38):
but had to explain why because the way that they
communicate could not you know, be immediate. So it was
a beautiful episode that she really really related to obviously
and was really excited about being featured. She also wrote
a short film following a trans Rachel adoptees experience during
Chinese New Year, which I am very interested in and
I have to look this up and I'm excited to
(12:00):
see more of her work. Yeah, we probably should have
her on the show have a conversation about theater world
and such.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Right, yes, oh my goodness, you you would get to
nerd out.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
It couldn't be amazing. I would sit back and watch it.
I think you would nerd out about some things too.
I have a feeling. I have a feelingly I would
love it. Either way, it would be great.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Well, hopefully we can make that happen in the future,
but in the meantime, listeners, if you have any suggestions
for this topic, if you have any thoughts about musicals.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Please hello my favorite le miss, come talk to me.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah, that's you.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
You can write to us.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
You can email us at Hello at stuff whenever build
You dot com. You can find us on Blue Sky
at moms a podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok and
stuff Whenever Told You rus on YouTube, and we have
a book you can get wherever you get your books.
Thanks as always too our super duced Christina axecutive producer,
my Ander Triger, Joey, thank you and thanks to you
for listening stuff Never told you Protection by a Heeart Radio.
For more podcasts or my Heart Radio, you can check
out the iHeartRadio, ap Apple podcast, or wherever you listen
(13:06):
to your favorite shows,
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!