Gymnastics Gold

American Simone Biles is possibly the most talented gymnast in history. Cristen and Caroline somersault across the history of the OIympic event from its iconic hair and leotards to gendered and ethnic coding as well as the women like Simone Biles who have vaulted to worldwide attention.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, stuff, I've never told your listeners. Kristen Here before
we get into today's episode on Olympic gymnastics, I wanted
to acknowledge some major news I was actually breaking while
Caroline and I were recording this episode. Um, there has
been a report that was published in the Indianapolis Star

(00:21):
newspaper which finds that USA Gymnastics, which is the Olympic
gymnastic organization, has been systematically covering up allegations of sexual
abuse by gymnastics coaches. And this is something because we

(00:41):
weren't aware of how this was happening, we don't talk
about in the podcast, but we just wanted to acknowledge
that we realized that this has happened. And if this
is something that you all would like us to come
back and talk about in more depth, absolutely e mail
us at mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com.

(01:04):
But we just wanted to say a couple words so
that you all don't think that we are also turning
a blind eye to this major problem that is not
only implicated USA Gymnastics as a whole, but also Bella Coroli,
who has been accused in the past of psychologically abusing gymnasts,

(01:26):
and also his wife, Marta Caroli Um, who is the
current team coordinator for USA Gymnastics. So some sad news
to start off this episode, but important nonetheless for us
to acknowledge. And with that, let's get onto the show.

(01:48):
Welcome to stuff mom never told you. From how Stuff
Works dot Com, Hello, and welcome to the podcast. Asked,
I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline, and today we are talking gymnastics.
I'm I'm excited. I'm so excited. UM. So many little

(02:11):
girls that I grew up with did gymnastics. I was
not myself a joiner. I was a very shy only
child and my parents were just like okay with me
not participating. Yeah. I also I can't do a pull up,
So gymnastics was never something on my mind, at least

(02:33):
artistic gymnastics, rhythmic gymnastics, whole other ball field. I was
all about the ribbon dancer. I would try to do
the ball like body juggle thing that they do, which
really just looks like, you know, like people at Bonnaroo
with this like well, it also reminds me of of
a video I just watched yesterday of an otter that

(02:57):
was on a rock and it was throwing a rock.
But ween, it's pause, and I was like, this looks
like that gymnastics thing. Why don't the Auto Olympics exist.
We've got the puppy bowl, I know, so we need
the Auto Olympics. Well yeah, because oh and oh works perfectly,
honor Olympics. I'm already hello, already picturing the logo. It's

(03:19):
so cute in my head. Call us television, we have ideas.
That's how that works, right, Yeah, it's just television. Just
calls us Television, Inc. Gives you a ring. But back
to women's gymnastics, not outs okay, what you're talking about today? Uh,
some listeners had requested it. But also, Caroline, I have

(03:39):
as many people do, a real soft spot for women's
gymnastics in the Summer Olympics. It's like the reason, well, no,
there are a lot of really good Summer Olympics events,
but gymnastics is such a crowd fave it is. And
I was just listening. Maybe some other listeners out there
heard this too, But I was listening to NPR yesterday
and there was a sports report or who was talking

(04:00):
about how swimming and track and field had always been
the glamour pusses, the stars of the Olympics and how uh,
starting with Nadia Kumbin that all changed and gymnastics captured
everyone's imaginations. And I mean that totally rings true for

(04:23):
me too, because I grew up either watching ice skating
with my mother or watching women's gymnastics with my mother.
Like I don't I literally literally until this previous summer Olympics,
in literally have no recollection of watching swimming, and I
certainly didn't really care much about track and field. Oh

(04:46):
I enjoy track and field. I mean I watched it,
but I don't I I literally don't remember watching swimming,
but track and field I was always like, yeah, they're
very fast. But but gymnastics, there's so much like shows
of incredible strength and grace and power. And I mean,
we certainly will talk about that and talk about some

(05:07):
of the women who have exhibited all of that strength
and grace and power, but we're also going to address
the issue of how people speak differently about certain types
of gymnasts and the language they use. Yeah, so you
watched the summer and Winter Olympic events with your mom.
I am curious to another Caroline, did your dad watch

(05:28):
any Olympics? Some more of a curling man, Old Chad.
I'm sure Chad watched the Olympics, but I really my
I don't think he ever watched ice skating with us
in the Winter Olympics, and I don't know if he
was around to watch the gymnastics. I think I think

(05:49):
I do remember track and field being like the prime
time event that we would watch together, all of us.
Oh did you ever watch speed skating? Side note? Yeah,
that was one of my favor and still is one
of my favorite winter powerful thighs, such powerful thighs. Um
When the Olympic Summer Olympics were in Atlanta in for

(06:12):
listeners who might not know, Caroline and I are sitting
right now in Atlanta, Georgia, UM, where we work and live.
Was it a big deal for you? You know your
family lives right outside of Atlanta. Yeah, we got out
of town. Oh you did. Yeah? My parents were not
having it. Yeah, we my They did take me to

(06:32):
the Centennial Olympic Park in downtown Atlanta, and I remember
that being pretty cool. It was hot, it was so hot,
and I remember going and you could buy all sorts
of Olympics swag and they had like this massive display
of pins like pins to stick on your clothes. And
I remember being so excited to get the soccer pin

(06:57):
because little Carol loved to play soccer but was too
afraid to join a team. So even though I loved
playing and I had a great time doing it and
I was not terrible for someone who had no practice
or training, I never joined a team and so buying
that little pin was like my little joiner moment. I
love that story so much. Do you think we still

(07:19):
have that pen? Oh? I'm sure I do, uh, because
listen up, there's a denim vest hanging in my childhood
closet covered in pens. Oh my gosh, um if my
mom hasn't thrown it out every once in a while,
she gets real like up in arms about how much
stuff is left at the house. Um, but also no,
so uh, you know. We we visited Centennial Park, I

(07:40):
bought the pins. I felt bad about not playing on
a soccer team, and then my parents swept us out
of town to go to our lake house in Michigan,
where I was sitting on the couch the morning they
were reporting on the Olympic Park bombing. So I remember
running out to my mother and being like, there's a
bomb um, you know, in Atlanta, and my mother being like,

(08:02):
mommy's talking. Just wait a second, and I'm like, really nothing, okay, Yeah,
that that was kind of embarrassing. That and the fact
that our Olympic mascot was named It was nicknamed Izzy,
which stood for what is it? But yeah, people didn't

(08:23):
people did not know what it is. It was toothpaste
with eyeballs. Basically it really did look like that. It was.
It was pretty sad. We were no laughing stock of
the mascot world. Yes, yeah, yeah, I mean that's a
that's a tough crowd right there. Meanwhile, not not terribly
far away from you, I was a young kid who

(08:44):
had Olympic fever. Long story short. My parents were friends
with the family of a Canadian rhythmic gymnast, so I
got to go to the Olympic village, which was very cool. Um.
I also collected as many pins as I could. I
was also very proud of a souvenir shirt that I

(09:07):
bought in Athens, which is outside of Atlanta, where the
University of Georgia is where a lot of events took place.
Um and because of the Athens Greece link, my souvenir
shirt was in all these like Greek olympiad um athletes,
and I didn't really notice until I think, like my

(09:27):
brother pointed out that they were totally like penises on
the shirt, Sweet little Congress. She didn't know. I didn't.
I didn't. I didn't know. I didn't know to look there. Um.
But ninety six was the year of the Magnificent Seven,
and I was watching on television because we weren't it
was such a hot ticket. We couldn't go to gymnastics.

(09:51):
But I was watching it not far away from where
it was happening, and I remember very vividly sitting in
my parents living room watching Verry strug twist her ankle
during the vault and then hobble back and land that
second vault, and then her coach comes up and scoops

(10:12):
her up, like an iconic moment when he carries there. Yeah.
And then on SNL, Chris Katan, you know, started like
the whole sketch where he was Carrie Struggs little brother
like Kippy or something. Um. But yeah, I I had
huge gymnastics fever that year. Well, yeah, because I can't
walk in a straight line. How can they do all

(10:34):
that they do on a balance beam. I mean, it
truly was magnificent. But I have a feeling that and no,
no shade on Carrie Strug and the other gals who,
by the way, we're rocking some amazing wind suits and
bangs back then, I have a feeling that their performances
might pale in comparison to the Rio Games, where we

(10:56):
have none other than three time world champions Simone by
else who is representing the US and might make gymnastics history.
Oh she's incredible. I never thought I would say these
words out loud in a sentence, but I could seriously
watch videos of her flipping around all day long. Yeah

(11:18):
she she. I was just telling Kristen before we came
into record that I feel that Simon Biles is able
to defy physics because if you watch her videos of
her routines, it literally will look like there's not enough
time and space for her to continue flipping so that
her head is above her feet, you know, allowing her

(11:40):
to land on her feet and not her head. And
she does it. She pulls it off, and I don't
know how Yeah, I mean, and she is so talented. Uh,
she's basically the Serena Williams of gymnastics only very compact. Yes,
much shorter, but probably as strong. I mean, that girl
is nothing but muscle. Um. And we're going to talk

(12:00):
more about Biles later in the episode. But I also
want to mention that I'm going to be keeping an
eye out for Deepa car Mocker, who is the very
first female gymnasts from India ever to qualify for the Olympics,
and she stands a good chance to win a medal
at Rio because apparently her vault is incredible. She can

(12:24):
do this type of vault. I forget what kind of
it's called, but this vault that is deadly because if
you overshoot it, you can break your neck very easily
and die. Um. But she can do it. Deepa has
got it nailed, so they're thinking that she might. She's
definitely a metal contender. You said, you said deadly vault,

(12:46):
and I immediately am like spy thriller and I'm like
picturing her as a spy and like all she does
is like tumble and vault around and and and kill enemies.
But I would watch that Netflix show. Yeah, hello, yes,
and I you totally brought my mood down though, when
you said that it's deadly because she could she could
hurt herself. Yeah yeah, I mean only a couple other

(13:09):
gymnasts have performed the style of vault just because it's
so uh it's it takes such a intense level of skill. Okay,
I'll be watching deeper, but maybe threw my fingers over
my eyes. Yeah yeah. Um. And and a quick disclaimer
for gymnastics fans out there, We are just going to

(13:31):
focus on Olympic gymnastics because if we tried to cover
the entirety of the sport, which thrives on the college
level as well. In C double A gymnastics is huge. Um,
we would be here all day. Oh yeah, I mean
when I was in college, when you and I were
in college, we were in college together, the gym dogs

(13:51):
were a huge thing. You g as women's gymnastics team. Yeah,
gym dogs were so popular. Dogs with a spelled D
a w G. Because we are in the South dog
Jim dogs. So we can't be here forever talking about
the entirety of the sport. Nor can we be here
forever talking about the gym dogs and how often my
roommate went to see them. Um, at the Coliseum in Athens, Georgia,

(14:13):
not Greece. But we should point out that there's actually,
out of all of the different types of gymnastics, there's
only three at the Olympics, artistic, rhythmic and trampoline. And
rhythmic is the one with the ribbons, right, yes, the ribbons,
the pins, the ball and the seeming lack of spines
because they can just twist all which way. It's it's

(14:36):
the closest you will get at the Olympics to a
circusal a performance. It's incredible. Um. But yeah, we're we
are going to talk about rhythmic. We're just going to
focus on artistic, um trampling gymnastics. That sounds like a
lot of fun, but we're not talking about that today. Um.
And we are obviously going to talk about people like

(14:57):
Simone Biles and Nadya Komanacchi and Mary lou Written who
have really, um you know, made the sport what it is,
but we also want to talk about how women's gymnastics
is especially vulnerable to sexist sports media coverage. Big surprise,
no surprise there at all. But first we're gonna summersault

(15:21):
right in to a little bit of history courtesy of
gym Turnet, which I discovered. There's a whole internet devoted
to the gymnastics and it is referred to as the
gym Turnet and I love that. But there's also a
site Jim turn dot net I eat Gymternet, which is
just terrific. It's just this treasure trove of gymnastics information,

(15:43):
more gymnastics information that one could possibly ever even want
unless you are so into the sport um. So we
reverenced that a lot. And also there was a great
piece over fusion focus specifically on gymnasts of color in
the Olympics. So let's get our podcast time machine back
to Let's go back to nineteen twenty eight. We're not

(16:05):
going back to ancient Greece. No, no, we're skipping ancient Greece,
hopping into nine. American women have been able to vote
for eight years. Terrific, wonderful. And the Olympics are in Amsterdam,
and this is the first time that women gymnasts are
invited to participate, but not American lady gymnasts, right, American

(16:28):
women did not go. There weren't that many women gymnasts
in the Olympics. And in nineteen thirty two, those l
A Games did not invite the lady gymnasts back, largely
due to UM the International Gymnastics Federation's determination that it
would be economically like foolish to fly all these European

(16:50):
girls over to l A to compete in a country
where the sport was not popular. Yeah. Well, I mean
you also have to keep in mind the context of
the time. Right nineteen thirty two, You've got the Great Depression,
and so for a lot of people it's just not
economically feasible to be able to travel. Um. And at
the same time, you have a lot of gymnastics programs
being dropped from U S schools because of financial issues.

(17:14):
So basically people are kind of in general hunkering down
and trying to weed out things that aren't uh, super
vital to their day in and day out lives. Yeah.
So there just wasn't a ton of interest. UM. But
then in n six, team USA goes to the Olympics
for the first time. But it's it's sort of a

(17:37):
dark time to premiere at the Olympics because these were
the Berlin Games. UM. And I say it was a
dark time not just because the team didn't meddle UM,
but because it was essentially like the Nazi Games. Yeah.
So that really emotional and beautiful, uh torch relay that

(17:59):
we have every year for the Olympics, you know in Atlanta,
was so emotional because you had Muhammad Ali lighting the
torch at the very end. It was just I just
I remember that so clearly, Um watching him do that.
Hitler started that. I had no idea. I didn't know
that either because as NBC, who basically owns the Olympics

(18:21):
as NBC just tried to like cover that up or
the ioc um. Yeah. So the torch Relay started that
year in started in Greece and ended in Berlin. And
I realized that this has nothing to do with gymnastics specifically,
but we can't it's an important Olympic side. Yeah, we
can't not share this. Um. The torch Relay start in Greece,

(18:45):
ends in Berlin, and the final runner that year passed
through rows of Swasseka flags and it was Nazi propaganda. Yeah,
because they were basically trying to associate themselves with these
superior athletes and intellects of ancient Greece. Yeah. So, UM,

(19:09):
never gonna look at the torch relay quite the same
again because it started as a Nazi propaganda. They even
had Lenni riefenstall Uh film this relay and release it
in her documentary about the Olympics called Olympia. So a
little bit of a Nazi history for all use menty listeners.
And honestly, since nineteen thirty six was the Nazi Olympics,

(19:34):
no big loss that t Musa did not medals, It's
totally fine. Um. We should also note that during that
time only team medals were granted. It wasn't until nineteen
fifty two in Helsinki that individual medals were given and
when gymnasts could compete as individuals like a simoon Biles.

(19:56):
Ah well, speaking of individuals. From six to sixty four,
you have Soviet Union gymnast Larissa, Lady Nina, I think,
I think that's right, Lady Nina winning eighteen medals and
this makes her the most decorated Olympian ever until freak
of Nature Michael Phelps comes along American swimmer and Phelps

(20:20):
is back in Rio. Yeah I know, but okay, another
side note, like have you seen those diagrams of him
and his like wingspan and like all of these ratios
where they show that he is like a physical freak
of nature and that is how he is able to
just dominate swimming. Anyway, it should be interesting to watch

(20:40):
this year. Okay, moving on to nineteen six in Montreal.
This is when we have Romania's Nadia combin Hi becoming
the first gymnast to score a perfect ten and she
does it on the uneven bars. And this was a
huge moment for the sport. This was really it's worldwide
coming out party because people started paying way more attention because, oh, whoa,

(21:04):
you have this gymnast wearing a perfect ten. How how
is that possible? We must start watching this thing. And
then fast forward to when Mary lou Written slays the Olympics.
She becomes the first American woman to win the all
around gold. So the US is like, oh, we are

(21:26):
all about the Olympics now. This is when you start
to see little girls around the country just flooding gymnastics classes. Yeah.
We'll keep in mind too that in eight four, the
Soviet block was boycotting the Games, which meant you didn't
have those like gymnastics dominating countries that were typically it

(21:46):
was what So it's the Soviet Union, You've got Romania
in there. I want to also say it's basically like
Eastern Europe and today Russia. UM, that really dominated for
most of UM Olympic history. Yeah, until the eighties. When
you have Merrily Retten in her haircut, that's right. Cut

(22:07):
that haircut, it's kind of like a bowl cut. Would
that be the best description? Yeah? So classic UM. But
she landed three perfect tens. She got one for her
floor exercise UM and two for vaults. But speaking of
perfect tens, big moment in two thousand and six when
the perfect tens scoring system was swapped out with open

(22:29):
ended scoring to reward more difficult routines. That so that
NPR sports reporter that I was talking about earlier his opinion,
and I'll be interested to hear from from gymnasts and
gymnastics fans out there, because I don't know UM, but
he was arguing that switching to this new system made
it less exciting or I mean, he still loves gymnastics

(22:52):
and loves to watch it, but he said that there
was something thrilling about watching gymnasts try to strive for
the perfect ten. UM. In my head, I was like, well,
but when you want to score, that reflects the difficulty
and all of this stuff. I don't know, So someone
needs to write in and tell me what they think
and what I and what I should think honestly. Well,
I mean it just makes sense. Like of thinking about

(23:14):
any kind of grading system, you can get a one hundred,
like just that feeling of you cannot do any better.
But with this open scoring system, it's always possible to.
I mean, with some someone like someone Biles coming along,
you know she would have nothing but perfect tends, and
so in that way it would get kind of boring,
I would think. So I would argue the opposite. Um

(23:37):
when we look though at the gendering of the sport,
because of how much focus is on women's gymnastics, it's
one of those rare sports where people care seem to
care a lot more about uh, the women's sport, dan
the men's sport, even though hello, pommel horse could watch
that all day. Um. It's so feminine coated, which I

(24:01):
think is part of why it is so popular, because
it's it's so athletic and it takes so much strength,
but it's softened by all of the glitter and the
fancy leotards and the hair, which are really fun, but
some argue that they're distracting, and really all the scrunch
ees good scrunchy style. And gymnastics isn't the only feminine

(24:23):
coated sport like this In the Winter Olympics. Of course,
you have figure skating, which I feel like it is
sort of the the gendered equivalent. Diving is also arguably
feminine because it's all about grace and tiny puddles don't
make any ripples. I love watching diving. I know what's
it scares me because Greg lugainis no just next, I'm

(24:45):
worried about next snapping Yeah well oh when he hit
his head? Yeah no, I'm yeah, well just people hurting
themselves in general. It makes me very nervous. But what's
interesting about that whole feminine coated thing, you know, moving
on from from tiny puddles and broken x uh, is
the fact that that is most of what's broadcast when

(25:06):
it comes to women, right, Like the sports that are
more female or feminine coated are more likely to be broadcast, right.
But I think that's also like the chicken egg thing.
I don't think that we like love gymnastics because it's
what we see the most, but rather broadcasters show mostly

(25:27):
these more like feminine coated sports. So there was a
UNC study of the Beijing Summer Games which analyzed, um,
you know, how much like what kinds of sports were
broadcast when, and they found that six of women's prime
time coverage was exclusively gymnastics, swimming, and diving. And then

(25:49):
if you add in beach volleyball and any sport where
women compete in leotards or swimsuits, that goes up to so,
I mean, there there is I think there is a
very gendered aspect to the kinds of Olympic female Olympic
sports that are the most considered the most mainstream. But

(26:12):
the thing is, gymnastics culture is undeniably fun and girly. Yeah,
I mean, let's just look at the history of the haircuts.
I mean, what what were we looking at that had
the whole history of gymnastics fashion. That's the gym turnet,
the gym turnet. Oh my god, it's it's a pretty
detailed breakdown of the evolution of gymnastics fashion. And it's

(26:38):
fascinating because you go from like the little Merrily Retten
bowl cuts, You've got the feathered bangs all the way
up to these slick slicked back ponytails with the scrunch eese.
I love it. It is unapologetically girly. So um. One
thing I didn't know about gymnastics hair be because my

(27:00):
you know, personal history with gymnastics only stretches back to
really like um. Erica Peterson over on the Gym Turnet
starts off the timeline with the sixties bouffont I mean,
which I just love imagining gymnasts today with a buffon.
Wouldn't that mess you up? Letter if it gets caught
on something? I know it makes no sense. But then

(27:25):
she mentions how nineteen seventy two was pivotal with pigtails. Yeah,
which is like fun to look at, but it's also
kind of weird and creepy on the other side, because
all of a sudden in nineteen seventy two, with girls
starting to wear pigtails, you do see a shift from
focusing on like adult lady people gymnasts to the focus

(27:50):
on very small, young looking girls being the gymnasts on TV. Yeah.
I mean, and it's not just them looking young. I
mean this itself like shifts down in age. And the
way Peterson describes it was as it was out with
the old debutante up dudes and in with the charming
youths you uh and And four years later, in nineteen

(28:14):
seventy six, Nadia kom And introduced the pony You got
that that famous ponytail, and they all had yarn tying
their hair up, yarn ribbons. That was like a thing
for a while, And I vaguely do remember going to
school with girls who use that fat yarn to tie
their hair up. I had some of that fat yarn.

(28:35):
Not to brag, I did not have fat yarn, but
it is interesting to see the little leg yarn dangling
out of their hair. I love how the yarn is
so fascinating. It is it is. It's weird. It's just
a different type of I mean, like, how is it
different than a ribbon because it's yarn And that's so like,

(28:56):
that's so like after school craft to me, you know
what I mean. Listen, if you're living in like a
Soviet block country, you might not have the finest ribbons
at your disposal. Really, like, is it that hard to
get ribbon? I don't know. Someone tell me, yeah, I
don't think. I don't think life is that any sy
in the Union? Is it really so hard to get ribbon.

(29:17):
I mean I watched the Americans on f X. It
seems like they carry Russell always has perfect hair um.
But really with comens, ponytail ponies have kind of been
the name of the game, uh, except with some eighties
and nineties highlights of course Merry Lee Retten's bowl cut.

(29:38):
And then you have the carry shrug. It's not a
crew cut necessarily, father Pixie somehow, like in the front
it's all like poof, well's sort of like a reverse
mullet because it's short on the bottom but full on
the top. Business in the back, party on the front. Yeah,
well yeah, And then you do have the moment in
gymnastics history, which I never would have own if it

(30:00):
weren't for the gym Internet. Uh, the little blip in
hair history where they used their ponytails. They didn't pull
them all the way through, so it was like the
dangly ponytail bun. And apparently that was popular just a
couple of years ago, like in the last Olympics a
couple of years ago. But I remember I remember girls
doing that when I was in middle school. So it

(30:23):
seems like my middle school is finally trickling down to
the international gymnastics stage. You're pretty ahead of the game there.
What can I say? You know, Maryatta, Georgia just way
ahead of the curve, definitely setting trends. Um. I mean,
Mariatta was probably knee deep and scrunches when you were
growing up, that is for sure. Um. And the scrunchy

(30:44):
game was so strong in the nineties. Now, you know,
an Olympic gymnast would not probably touch a scrunchy with
a ten foot poll. Um. But you have also the
phase of visible hair clips everywhere. The litter glitter became
a thing. That's still kind of a thing. Yeah, yeah,

(31:05):
well I think the glitter has been phased out a
little bit in favor of a sleek bun and more
of a statement lip, A bright red statement lip. For sure.
I love it looks great. I mean, why shouldn't you
match your lip color to your leotard? I say that
every day. That's one of my It is weird that

(31:26):
you're wearing plaid lipstick right now and a blad leotard. Yeah,
my my chambre. Uh lipstick is just making me look dead.
So maybe I should rethink this trend. If I could
wear a shambre leotard. You know, I do it pretty
much anything made out of chambre, and I'll prove it. Um.

(31:48):
But of course there have been also many articles devoted
to leotard's because there's been such terrific leotard fashion in gymnastics.
One to put the little collars on them from the
seventies and a little peter Pan collar. Hello, totally cool
that with your little pigtails and yarn, fat yarn. It's

(32:11):
it's a great look. Um. But leotard technology is a
real thing, that's right, she said. Leotard technology. Um. They
evolved from essentially polyoster swimsuits to these high tech razzle
dazzle get ups that cost hundreds of dollars um. And

(32:33):
by the six season seventies, leotards have become more form
fitting for mobility and safety. So it's probably the same
reason that the bouffant went out like it keeps getting
caught on the balance beam saying you're like gymnastics dress
you're wearing. They can finally take off their their formal
evening gloves. Um, at least for the the uneven bars. Yeah,

(32:58):
but I didn't realize this leotard's, even starting in the
sixties and seventies, are typically high cut to make your
legs appear longer. Is that important in gymnastics, Absolutely, because
it's all about appearance in lines and grace and so
they're short. Yeah, they're very short, and so by making

(33:19):
and their legs are very muscular. So probably having that
higher cut UM leotard makes their legs peer both longer
and leaner. I'm also tapping into my my ballerina past oh.
I was just thinking of like every women's magazine every spring.
It's like, remember, ladies wear a high cup bathing suit
and it's like, well, it's not going to distract from

(33:41):
my saddle bags anyway. Um. Moving on to people who
do have leg muscles. UM. Nowadays, Team USA uses leotards
that are made out of this shiny, high tech, as
Kristen says, razzle dazzle material called mystique. I don't believe
that the reference to the X Men character. Um, but

(34:03):
it's super shiny and it compresses and supports. And if
you are one of those people getting a mystique leotard, uh,
that's all sorts of shiny. If you are buying one
that has thousands upon thousands of Sperosky crystals on it.
It can take more than a year and a half
or up to a year and a half to make

(34:25):
and costs five Yeah, that's crazy. Who's paying for that
or the families having to pay for that? I think, Um,
when you're at that level, it would be USA Gymnastics,
it's probably paying for it. Wonderful, I would hope. Um.
But also in terms of the leotard's being cut and
made in certain ways to emphasize different parts of the body.

(34:46):
Modern leotards are super shiny to show off musculature, rights,
show how how fit these ladies are, these athletes, and
just that level of my is so is just unbelievable
to me, especially when I remember like, oh wait, she's sixteen. Wow. Um,

(35:08):
And then finally you have the makeup there's always been.
I feel like women's gymnastics might be the only Olympic
sport where makeup is required. Is synchronized swimming not on
an Olympic sport. It is it is they were makeup
that's a requirement. Okay, Well then I stand corrected. Perhaps
it's one of two. Then I guess you gotta get

(35:31):
a lot of good waterproof mascara for that one. Lots
and lots of waterproof mascara. Olympic gymnast Alicia Sacramone told
Fashionista that quote, you just kind of have to match
your eyes shadow to your leotard because that's a big deal.
You gotta match, big deal. But no nail polish. They're

(35:53):
not allowed to wear nail polish. It's like, Okay, you
can put glitter in your hair, you can where how
old azzle leotard. You can wear eyeshadow and a statement lip,
but you can't wear nail polish. That is weird. I
wonder what that's about. I don't understand. I'm sure a
gymnastics expert in the audience can tell us. Maybe the

(36:16):
gymnastics organizers need to get together with the track and
field organizers and they track and field people can help
the gymnastics people see the light, because I'm telling you this,
track and field ladies have some of the best nail
art I've ever seen. True, although flow Joe nails on
on a gymnastics vault would might be a bad situation

(36:40):
about that. You just got like a crumpled bit of
buffont and evening wear and fake nails on the floor
just everywhere. Um, but the thing is like as fun
as all of these like superficial features of gymnastics and
gymnastics culture are to watch and to talk about, you

(37:02):
do kind of wonder like why why do they need
to match their eyeshadow to their leotard? Why would they
Why would an athlete of this caliber be judged not
only on that, but also you know, even them just
like having to smile. Yeah, well, I mean it's the
same thing. You know. You see cheerleaders at all levels,

(37:24):
including competitive cheerleaders um on teams, who are expected to
do the same thing, where makeup, straighten their hair, you know,
look perfect and smile, even though they are also like
nothing but muscle as they do tumbles and all sorts
of whatever cheerleaders do. But I think the difference is
that cheerleaders are there to entertain and cheer people up,

(37:48):
so of course they would be expected to smile. Well sure,
I guess I'm thinking of like the competitive cheerleading tournaments
and stuff. That it's the same thing that you could argue, like, Okay,
I get why, like the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders need to
have perfect hair and makeup and all of that stuff.
But like, why do girls competing on some state level

(38:10):
need to where all of that glitter makeup. I don't know.
I don't know why they're expected to other than it
is such a feminine coated sport and athletic event, and
maybe there's just different expectations. Yeah, I mean, and I'm
gonna say, like I I don't get why the Dallas
Cowboys cheeroterers have to have perfect hair and makeup. You know,
I'd much prefer them, and just like overalls in a

(38:31):
fresh face, just kind of chilling, you know, wearing levies
and a cowboy hat. Yeah, why not writing a literal
cow Sure, there we go, cow leading. It's the new
it's the new sport for women. Um. And this issue
of kind of stop telling gymnastic smile was raised in

(38:53):
a New Republic peace that cited a gymnastics host who
really hates how these competitors are expected to keep on
smiling even if they're injured, saying, you know, a man
that's competing or a teenage boy who's competing with an
injury is a hero. He's being a man and he's

(39:14):
stepping up. But a female gymnast, you know, she can't
ever just kind of scowl and walk off. Well that's
why it was so great when Serena Williams not too
long ago, they were like, why aren't you smiling? Just like, really,
I'm not allowed to be tired or have a bad
day or whatever. It's yeah, it's the same thing, and
it's the same thing about telling any woman to smile. Um.

(39:34):
But I mean you also have to keep in mind
that there is that kind of seedy underbelly of gymnastics
in terms of allegations of abuse and eating disorders and
other sorts of you know, body and health dysfunction basically,
And so you you imagine if like stuff like that
is potentially going on, and you're still telling people to smile,

(39:56):
So like, I don't maybe we have bigger fish to fry. Yeah,
I mean, um, I can verify that at least among
rhythmic gymnastics, eating disorders that are promoted by coaches are
a huge problem. Um. And then there's a whole infantilization
aspect where I mean, if you just look at the

(40:17):
physiques of many top tier gymnasts, they have you know,
small breasts and very petite frames, and there's this idea
that essentially they are trained to kind of delay puberty
as as long as possible because, um, it's apparently harder
to uh tumble and vault when you have sea cups. Um.

(40:40):
But Elsbeth Reeve, who wrote that New Republic Peace, was
talking to NPR saying that the sport was very much
focused on these little girls dancing on a playground. Like
the way that the NBC commentators would, you know, talk
about these imness was very infantilizing, not to mention the

(41:03):
fact that these athletes are pretty much exclusively referred to
as girls and also princesses. Like princess rhetoric comes up
a lot where a girl getting there and see I'm
doing it. Now we're an athlete getting there is you know,
this princess who is living a fairytale life and she's
wearing this bejuiled leotard and and look at her and

(41:26):
all her loveliness. Yeah. I mean, we've read from a
lot of like sportscaster type people and people in the
sports world about how when you're looking for stuff to
talk about as these athletes are on camera, people want
to hear a story. They're watching it on television at home.
They want to hear a story and it's almost like

(41:48):
fairytale porn. They're like, oh my god, I want to
hear more about how this young girl overcame so much
to be here, uh, you know, to show up with
her fat yarn in her hair and the same aim.
It's true when you're calling, when you're pitting athletes against
each other, in the case of calling some of them

(42:08):
divas or or princesses. Yeah, I mean you're you're basically
either a diva or a princess a lot of times. Um.
And you'll you'll notice that usually the divas are Russian
who exhibit quote petulance to criticism. Um. You'll hear the
word temperamental applied to quote unquote difficult gymnasts a lot

(42:32):
of times. Um. In in London you had Russia's Aliyah Mussafina,
who was constantly called a diva, not only by sportscasters
but also you know, by people watching. And I think
it's because she had a bad performance and when her
coach came up to her to try to talk to her,
she brushed him off, and they're like, oh, what a diva?

(42:56):
How dare how dare this young woman not talked to
that man? In um. But yeah, that's the kind of
thing who was saying that in Russia. It's like, guys,
we don't operate the same, Like we're gonna show our emotion.
If we're happy, we're happy. If we're upset, we're upset,
and you're gonna know which is Yeah. I mean, there's

(43:18):
no denying kind of the geopolitics of the American princesses
version versus the Russian divas, because that, you know, Russian
and Eastern European v Us rivalry is still very much
going strong. Um. Because you got to remember that women's
gymnastics was dominated throughout the Cold War era by those

(43:39):
Soviet Block countries like Romania, Hungary and Russia. UM, and
in Mary lou Retten's phenomenal performance only intensified the battle
so called battle these women are apparently like representing not
not only gymnastics, but also nuclear warfare potentially. Oh my god,

(44:05):
I'm just picturing like the costume potential, Like everybody comes
out dressed as uh, like missiles and things weren't there.
Weren't there like fashion, they were like pageant beauty pageants
during the Cold War where women would dress and they
would like do their hair up like an atomic blast. Yes,
that's probably even more difficult than wearing a buffont to

(44:27):
be honest. Um, But I mean, just like sexism, bald
faced sexism is also pretty common. NBC commentator Al trout
Wig in two thousand eight was commenting on a gymnasts
injury that she sustained leading up to the Olympics, and
instead of just you know, talking about the injury or

(44:49):
saying like, man, that's unfortunate, you know, get better, uh,
trout Wig says it's like having a tear in your
wedding dress right before you walk down the aisle. To me, honestly,
sounds like a terrible line from Atlantis Morisset's ironic you
know something, It's not ironic. Yeah, And I gotta say
that trout Wig is cited in everything that we read

(45:12):
about sexist coverage of women's gymnastics. He just especially loves
talk not those kinds of one one liners, especially about
the diva stuff, like he seems pretty big on dismissing
female athletes a divas. But the good news amid all
of the sex with sports coverage is the fact that
the gym tournet exists, and we're going to talk about

(45:33):
that when we come right back from a quick break, Caroline.
To do lists can seem out of control sometime. I
know at least mine do pretty much every day because
there's so much to do but so little time. But
there's one thing that we can all check off our

(45:53):
to do list, which is going to the post office
thanks to stamps dot Com. Because with stamps dot com
can buy in print official US postage right from your
own computer and printer. They'll send you a digital scale
and automatically calculate the exact postage you need for any
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now you can sign up for stamps dot Com and

(46:15):
use our promo code stuff to get a special offer.
It's a four week trial plus one dollar bonus software
that includes postage and a digital scale. So don't wait.
Go to stamps dot com before you do anything else.
Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage
and type in stuff that's stamps dot Com. Enter stuff
and now back to the show. So the gym Internet,

(46:41):
as I alluded to earlier in the podcast, is the
network of online hardcore gymnastics fans who are basically giving
the sport the legitimate coverage that they wish it would
receive year round, not just when you know, every four
years when the Summer Olympics comes around, and the community

(47:02):
of people that constitutes the Gymternet has become a go
to source for a lot of people. They are the
ones getting the stories and interviews with men and women
in the gymnastics scene that mainstream sports news just isn't,
maybe because they don't have time or space to dedicate
to it, but maybe also because not enough eyeballs are

(47:25):
getting on the gymnastics content well. And I have a
feeling too that there's some of that sexist marginalization happening
where it's like, oh, you know, we we like to
see it every four years, so's those cute divas and
princesses coming out and flipping around. Um, but the Gymternet
stars have really become, you know, to put it in
Internet terms, they become the influencers of the sport. And

(47:48):
I love that started with Tumbler. God, it's so millennial.
UM started around two thousand eight on Tumbler in order
to as Elsbethree told and pr that it started in
order to provide the real necessary pushback that's not about
the sparkles and the girlishness. It's about the crazy work workouts,

(48:10):
the incredible athletics, the injuries and coming back from injuries.
And there's even a podcast, Yeah You've Got Jim cast I,
which is hosted by a law librarian named Jessica oh Byrne.
And uh, what's pretty notable is that Mikaela Moroney, she
of the unimpressed face, after the Olympics, announced her retirement

(48:34):
on that podcast. She did not go talk to you know,
ESPN or USA today. She went on a podcast. Yeah,
I mean, and I want to say that Simone Biles
has been on gym cast I. Pretty much all of
the big names in the sport have been on gym
Castic and Jessico barn I hope that you're listening right now,
and I also hope that I'm not mispronouncing your last
name because this could be some terrific podcast synchronicity. Um.

(48:58):
But there's also, of course the gym Turnet blog, which
was started by Lauren Hopkins Um who was just a
gymnastics fan who was working in marketing at a New
York law firm and was like, you know what, I'm
just gonna I'm gonna start this thing. And now she
is going to be a gymnastics researcher for NBC in Rio.
And seriously, if you have any interest in gymnastics, you

(49:20):
gotta check out the gym turnet. But isn't that like
not to project my like young Caroline dreams onto anyone else?
But isn't that the freaking dream to like be hosting
a passion project blog that like you're so obsessed with
that you can't stop doing, you can't stop researching and
writing for. And then freaking NBC is like, hey, can

(49:43):
you come like actually work for us, to do all
of the stuff that you're doing for yourself. Yeah, I
mean like she's a go to source now, she and
oh Bern are go to sources for you know, press
coverage of gymnastics. Good for them, that's amazing. They know
their stuff, they do know their stuff, and both are
you know, just so so well produced. I mean it's not, um,

(50:05):
this is an amateur level. I mean it's technically amateur,
but it's professionally you know, it's professional level, terrific, And
both of them are just so well done. It makes
sense that they're getting national attention. For what started out
as passion projects. It is the millennial dream come true.
It all starts with Tumbler. Well, speaking of Tumbler, I

(50:27):
feel like that's that's the transition here. UM. One thing
that we wanted to address is the racial coding of gymnastics.
And I say speaking of Tumbler, because of course Tumbler
is you know, all about social justice and diversity and
maintaining awareness of these kinds of things. And the question

(50:48):
is whether this Jim Turnet era sport now is becoming
less racially coated as a white sport. Yeah. I mean,
you do have the fact that as of two thousand seven,
only about seven percent of the American gymnastics population is black,

(51:10):
and that is not that doesn't equate to the percentage
of African Americans in the overall population. Yeah, so basically
they're underrepresented. UM. Dvora Myers, who wrote a book about
the Perfect ten System UM, also was writing about this issue,
specifically fusion, and she attributes that seven percent to the

(51:33):
fact that gymnastics is often very suburban, very expensive, and
very time consuming. I mean, I know, for me growing up,
if I had wanted to join a gymnastics gym, UM
which pulenty of them in town. But it would have
been prohibitively expensive for me to do it. And it's
a bummer because back in the day, public schools used

(51:55):
to offer affordable gymnastics y m c a s. You know,
there were ways that at anyone, especially like living in
more urban areas, could possibly get involved with it. But
not anymore, definitely not anymore. Yeah, to the point where,
at just sixteen years old, gymnastic Gabby Douglas had to
move all the way to Iowa without her family to

(52:19):
live with a host family in order to work with
her coach. Yeah. Um, that profile Time magazine profile of
Gabby Douglas right after the London Olympics when she of
course won the gold was I mean just stunning, Like
thinking about her sheer determination and I know, determination and

(52:39):
confidence and bravery. There was like three adjectives that always
get thrown out whenever we're talking about Olympic athletes. But
just the length literally the length that she and many
others I'm sure, but that she went to to pursue
this specific coach whose name is escaping me, that she
saw on TV during the Olympics and she was like,

(53:00):
that's the coach, and that coach lives in Iowa. I've
got to move to Iowa, you know, and and trying
to figure that out, and also paired with such an
intensive training schedule. There was one, um, one instance apparently
when she kind of revolted, was like, I'm not going
to practice because it's Christmas. But I mean, that's the

(53:23):
level of dedication that it takes in order to make
it this far. Yeah. And and something that's limiting to
a lot of people, not just on the basis of ethnicity,
but something that's limiting to a lot of people is
the degree of physical expectation placed on gymnasts, much like ballet.
You know, you are expected to be live and thin,

(53:46):
You're expected to have those high leg lines helped out
by your shiny leotard um. But also kind of the
look in general. That is where the ethnic component comes in,
because the look, especially be has so many of those
early successful gymnasts were coming out of Eastern Europe. The
look has traditionally been white and delicate, and it's so

(54:07):
much like ballet, and you know, which is part of
why Misty Copeland's success has been so outstanding. Um, since
she doesn't have that quote unquote perfect ballet body type,
which is very similar um to the quote unquote perfect
gymnast body type. Um. But it's all I mean, it
has to do with how the sport came out of Russia,

(54:30):
which is also where you know a lot of early
ballet was happening. And so I mean the history of it,
the earliest history was very white. But the problem is
now you have some people like I forget what year
it was, but there were there was a member, there
was an Italian gymnast and coach who yeah, who I

(54:52):
think talking about Simone Biles saying, um that essentially she
was getting like affirmative action like points yeah, and and
the coach just because the the actual athletes said something
like should I paint my skin black in order to win?
And then the coach comes out and you're like, okay,
all right, this person clearly is an idiot. Here comes

(55:14):
the coach. Let's see what the coach has to say.
This person will make it better. Oh my god, the
coach made it a thousand times worse with his commentary. Um.
And a lot of it tied into ideas about that
have persisted over centuries. Mind you of athleticism and power
physical power among black people in general versus like elegance

(55:39):
and daintiness and purity of of white people. And that's
definitely a really icky, awful, ugly stereotype that you see
persisting in sports, particularly when you bring people from so
many countries together, and so it's reflected a lot of
times in sports commentary, which is so you're not only
hearing diva and princess being tossed aroun, you're hearing powerful

(56:04):
being used for someone like a Simon Biles, which not
that she isn't uh and whereas things like elegant are
typically reserved for white athletes. Yeah, I am so excited
to watch the women's gymnastics in Rio this year just
to listen for any kind of gender and like ethnic

(56:27):
coded language, to see just how prominent it is and
see maybe we've moved past it some um and and
the thing about that, the undertone, the subtext, the subtweet
of the powerful description are allegations that Simone Biles and
these like very like literally strong gymnasts are stripping gymnastics

(56:50):
of its original artistry. But you hear that usually from
like Russian and European competitors, where it's like by artistry.
Do you mean white people like white, thin, long white girls,
which I'm kind of a thin, long white girl, like
no shade. But it's like, what do you really mean
by that? Yeah, Kristen is always lying down, so you

(57:11):
can never really describe her as tall. You just have
to say that she was long, just long. And also
we got to talk about what happened at the London
Games when people complained across the internet that Gabby douglas
hair was not neat enough. It's like, hold the phone,
are we really talking about a gymnast of colors hair situation?

(57:38):
She is winning the gold and you were complaining about
her hair. Hello, like racist past and present? Do you
remember what the what the problem was with it? They
just said it wasn't neat enough. That's that's a case
of people not examining their own racial bias. Yeah, I

(57:58):
mean because black hair has never attracted any kind of
like unwanted or racist. Oh wait wait wait it always
it always does. Um but um I did notice that
just kind of going back and looking at photos from
past Olympics. Dominique Dawes, who was a member of the
Magnificent Seven and the first African American gymnast to win

(58:19):
a gold medal. Um. She wore her hair short and
natural at the two thousand Games and I'm so glad
that Twitter did not exist then because I can only
imagine the feedback she might have gotten. Yeah, And that's
that's like the two sided thing about that, right is
like everybody's like, oh man, if only Twitter had existed
back then, and then Dominique Dawes could be the same

(58:40):
level of heroin and you know the way that we
talk about a Gabby Douglas or Simon Biles. But on
the other hand, it's like, but Twitter can be so awful, Yeah,
so awful too well in that visibility factor, absolutely, you know,
contributes to the underrepresentation of jim of color in the

(59:01):
sport because, for instance, you know, in eight four Mary
lou Written inspired a ton of white girls to start
taking gymnastics, um. But it's not until when you have
Gabby Douglas is historic gold in London, establishing her as
a role model. And now with a woman like Simone Biles,

(59:22):
you know, I I've seen her videos shared by all
types of people on social media who are astounded at
her abilities because she she does she totally defies physics. Um,
and so you have to wonder, like I wonder what
the uh Simone Biles effect will be? Yeah, I mean
Mary lou Retton has already called her the most talented

(59:42):
gymnasts she's seen in her life. Um. She's the first
female gymnast to win three straight World Championships. And if
she wins three, I don't know if it's gold medals
are just medals in general. At rio, she will be
the most decorated American gymnast ever. And she already has
a gymnastics move named after her, the Biles, which is

(01:00:05):
a double layout half out. If you know what that is,
it's very impressive. Um. And she they viewed it at
the two thousand thirteen World Championships. And her backstory makes
her success all the more incredible. Yeah, no kidding. At
just two years old, she and her three siblings had
to be removed from their home because their mother was

(01:00:27):
struggling with addiction, and so uh their grandfather Ron and
his wife Nellie end up adopting the kids in two
thousand three, and at age six, Simone starts taking classes
and she's basically like a little gymnastics prodigy. She progresses
super fast and she has a terrible meat. But this

(01:00:49):
proves to be an actually great turning point for Yeah.
So after that, she struggles up with a sports psychologist
and USA national team coordinator, marth A Carole Um, who
is part of the Gymnastics Dream Team coaching wise. Um
she's the wife of Bella Coroli, who was the previous
team coordinator. Um And I don't know what that sports

(01:01:13):
psychologists and Martha Crowle were able to inspire in her,
but just three weeks later she won the US Championship
and two months later the world title, and since then
she has not lost a meat. I don't know. Like
people therapist, psychologists and professionals like a Martha Caroli, they

(01:01:36):
can help you get out of your head like that
was something that Gabby Douglas said that she struggled a
lot with was just getting too much in her own head.
And when you're thinking too much with your brain parts,
you can't be as effective with all your body parts
moving around. And so there's a lot of discussion about
how important it is to have that confidence and faith

(01:01:57):
in yourself that all of the sports commentators do dismiss
as diva behavior. You've got to think that you're the best.
You can't be walking around making BFFs all over the floor.
We're not here to make friends. This is gymnastics. We
kick butt. And one similarity though, between that Time magazine
profile of Gabby Douglas from a few years back and

(01:02:18):
a New Yorker profile on Simone Biles is um always
circling around to the the athletes not thinking they're the best,
and that was really a major focus of the Gabby
Douglas piece. Unlike Simone Biles Um, I mean time really
seem to want to like hammer home, like she's so
good but she doesn't think she is. She's so insecure.

(01:02:40):
She's so great, but she's so insecure, Which I was like,
why that's like that one direction song which I also hate,
Oh You're beautiful because you don't know you're beautiful? Um. Well,
And I wonder though, if that's that is part of
the gendered coding of it um, And it's something we're
gonna talk about in our next episode on Women's One Boxing,

(01:03:01):
where I wonder how much female athletes at the top
of their game unless you're like a Rhonda Rousey, where
it kind of comes with the territory of M M
A and UFC, whether we allow them to know that
they're the best, because the New Yorker profile ends with
Simone Biles saying, people say I'm the best, but I

(01:03:21):
still don't think that. I guess if I go to
the Olympics and do well, maybe I'll believe it. And
you're the best in the world already. Why why don't
you believe it? And I just wonder if it's like
a little bit of media cherry picking, or if it's
uh like some coaching psychology where you keep them insecure

(01:03:41):
and how good they really are, or if you know
all gymnasts have imposter syndrome. I'd read that book. I
want to read that study not a perfect tin impostor
syndrome at the gymnastics gym a gymnastics gymnasium. But I mean,

(01:04:02):
do you think do you think that's the case? What
do you think is going on with that? I I
have no idea. I mean, she could be being modest,
or it could I mean it could be that like
this skill literally comes so easy to her that it
she can't see through to realize just how incredible she is.
I don't know. Also, I forget how young they are

(01:04:24):
too yeah, um, and our society doesn't exactly you know,
like build teen girls up to believe they're the best
and the strongest. Kidding, So if anyone has any insight
on that, please let us know. And gymnastics fans, Olympic
gymnastics fans, hope that you enjoyed this look at this

(01:04:47):
segment of the sport because it was really fun to
dive in and um revisit the Magnificent seven, learn about
those high tech leotards all the crystals, and my um
my fandom for Simone Biles and Gabby Douglas and the
rest of the USA teams only reinforced with this podcast.

(01:05:12):
So now, listeners, we want to hear from you. Mom
Stuff at how stuff works dot com is our email address.
You can also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or
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(01:05:33):
She says, first, I want to say I love, love,
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months ago, and I'm hooked I'm already an avid listener
of how stuff works, and I can't believe I never
branched out to the lady side of the stuff family
till now. I've recently listened to your Librarian episodes, and
I'm left feeling like I missed my true calling to

(01:05:55):
be a librarian talk about a dream job in part two.
I believe you mentioned biblio therapy and that neither of
you had heard about it. The amazing folks at the
School of Life have actually been offering this for a
few years now. For a mere one hundred pounds, you
receive a one on one bibliotherapy session in which you
are given a stack of literature Taylor picked for you

(01:06:17):
and your situation that it sounds incredible amy, thank you.
She goes on to say, for a more d i
y approach. The creators of the School of Life Bibliotherapy
sessions also put together a book called a Novel Cure
and a to z of Literary Remedies that reads as
a dictionary with literary suggestions for everything that ails you,

(01:06:39):
and the site is the novel Cure dot Com. The
book's accompanying website offers free suggestions to chosen folks who
write in and also have a list of ailments with
accompanying cures to peruse online. I find it a fascinating
resource when choosing books as gifts. Keep up the amazing
work and thanks for all of this backstory. Amy want

(01:07:00):
that book right now. Um, I've got a letter here
from Marine also about our librarians to parter Marine Rights.
I wanted to share my personal experience with the Library
school program aimed at diversifying the profession. I got my
Masters of the University of Arizona in two thousand and
six as part of a special program within the Library
School called Knowledge River aimed at getting Latinos and Native

(01:07:22):
Americans into the profession. Besides financial aid, internship experience, and
specialized classes that focus on service to marginalized populations. It
was a cohort of people who all got to know
each other very well as we went through the program.
Ten years later, I'm still in touch with some of
the people I met. I was in the third cohort,
and Knowledge River will start it's fifteenth class this August.

(01:07:44):
Still going strong. Graduates work all over the country and
all kinds of libraries. In the mid sized public library
branch where I work three out of the four librarians
on staff our Knowledge River graduates and to speak Spanish.
Every so often I think of that and go wow.
We have a high population of Spanish speakers and many
Native American patrons as well, so it's the right thing

(01:08:05):
for our community. Librarianship is still a very white profession.
You just have to wander the exhibit hall at the
a l A Annual conference to see that. But with
Carla Hayden getting confirmed as the Librarian of Congress, the
first woman, the first African American, and the first librarian
with a background in public libraries in that position, I
feel that programs like KR are going to become more

(01:08:27):
important than ever. Oh well, thank you so much for
letting us know about Knowledge River Marine UM. It sounds
like a fantastic program. And yes, shout out to our
newest Librarian of Congress, Carla Hayden. And if you've got
shoutouts to send to us, mom stuff at how stuff
works dot com is where you can send them and

(01:08:48):
for links to all of our social media as well
as all of our blogs, videos and podcasts with our
sources so you can learn more about gymnastics. Head on
over to stuff Mom Never told you dot com For
more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it
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