April 15, 2009 • 15 mins
Join hosts Molly and Cristen as they trace the evolution of feminism -- from the suffrage movement to the modern online incarnations -- in this podcast from HowStuffWorks.com.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the Reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to step Mom? Never Told You?
From how Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, welcome to the podcast.
This is Molly. I'm Kristen and if all goes according
(00:21):
to plan. Our last podcast dealt with feminism and how
feminism is kind of a confusing topic these days. No
one really knows what a feminist looks like, what feminists
stand for, and today we're going to kind of go
into the history of feminism to kind of explain how
things got so confusing. And the last podcast, right, we
focus a lot on what it is today. So we're
(00:41):
going to go back to one of the first movements
that probably comes to mind when you think about feminism,
and that is the suffrage movement um when women American
women campaigned to get the vote. And the suffrage movement
was born out of antislavery and temporary movements of the
time because women were barred from participating in a lot
(01:05):
of the social organizations that were pushing for the abolition
of slavery and temperance. In in eighteen forty, Elizabeth Katie
Stanton and Lucretia Mott tried to go to the World
Antislavery Convention in London, but the men who were running
the event so that they couldn't participate because they were women,
(01:27):
and that that got them angry. It got them angry,
and you know, this was one of the first time
women kind of got angry about that. At the time,
women had very little control of our lives. They're having
seven children, they weren't going to college or university, and
so the abolition movement really had provided the first chance
to kind of get out of the home. And when
they were rejected from that as well, they had to
(01:48):
do something about it. So Elizabeth Katie stand and Lucresia
Mott organized the Seneca Falls Convention, right, and at the
Seneca Falls Convention, uh, they penned the Declaration of Sentiments,
and this is the first document outlining the need for
equality among women and women in the United States, including
(02:12):
voting rights. And from there the suffrage movement really starts
to take shape. But we should know that these are
jazz movements. They are taking place in the United States.
You know, these were sort of the first actions in
the United States that could be considered feminism, but the
idea of feminism is actually borrowed from Europe and France.
The idea of male and female equality really took shape
during the French Revolution, and from there we borrow the
(02:36):
term feminism, which came to the United Station was in
use by around nineteen ten, but not all suffragets would
actually label themselves feminism because at the time there are
two distinct things. Suffragettes or fighting specifically for the right
to vote, no more, no less, whereas feminism included equal
(02:59):
right across the board, financial independence, and transforming the relationship
between the sexes. It was a far more revolutionary idea.
So that's the idea that kind of from what I understand,
Kristen goes dormant after women get the right to vote,
and kind of stays dormant until the nineteen sixties, right,
because you have uh splintering among groups of suffragettes who
(03:21):
aren't comfortable with fighting for more feminist agendas, if you will.
And it wasn't really until after World War Two with
the Women's Liberation movement that you have the next large
scale organized feminist movement. Not to say that during the
World Wars women weren't doing a lot of things. You know,
we have women since the g i s were off fighting,
(03:43):
a lot of women were leaving the home and working
in larger numbers than ever before. Educational opportunities were opening
up for women. Um. And that all lead up to
the nineteen sixties and the women's lib movement. Rosie the Riveter,
Yes brings us to the nineteen sixties and our next movement,
women's liberation movement. And the issues at this time are
(04:03):
basically domesticity, employment, education, and sexuality right right. Because after
World War Two, all the men came home from war
and it was a revival of the cult of domesticity.
You have the rise of household consumerism and all these
highly educated women who were feeling trapped at home. So
(04:27):
what we have out of that feeling of being trapped?
There was a very prominent book we discussed in the
Labs podcast, the Feminine Mystique, and the author Betty for
Dan and other prominent feminists comes together to form the
National Organization for Women Are Now And this is probably
one of the most famous feminist organizations. And this was
this was comprised largely of older, college educated, predominantly white women.
(04:51):
There were some some men involved in it as well, UM,
but it really it seemed like in the beginning it
really catered to middle and upperclass women, right, and they
were pushing for access to the birth control pill, abortion rights,
equal employment opportunity, reduction of domestic violence. And they start
out holding feminist conferences. It's sort of, I guess, probably
(05:13):
what we all think of as the glory days of feminism.
And while all of us is going on, younger people
are also getting energized because of the civil rights movement
and more radical protests against the Vietnam War. And it's
among this younger set of feminists that you have uh
more radical splinter groups there aren't necessarily associated with the
(05:35):
National Organization for Women, who are protesting more more in
your face about women's rights and uh sexual freedom and
all of that. And one of the most prominent events
associated with that is the protests by the New York
Radical Women against the nineteen sixty eight Miss American paget
(05:56):
And this is really where the idea of feminists being
bra burners comes to life. Yeah, so this is a
really interesting story. It's Miss America pageant and along the
Atlantic City Boardwalk, the New York Radical Women's Organization, you know,
throws this big protest where you throw everything that represents
(06:17):
submissive females into a bucket. So we got bras that,
I think, kitchen utensil, layboy, all sorts of things that
just you know, spell out the fact that women have
been enslaved by men, to use a radical word, right,
And they were they were planning to light this on
fire as as a symbol of them getting rid of
(06:38):
all these um all these things that we're holding them back.
But the Atlantic City police weren't too keen on a
giant fire on the boardwalk, so they never ended up
doing it, and not a single bra was burned that day.
But somehow the media got a word of what was
going on, and the next day it was a feminists
(07:00):
or bra burners are taking off their braws, they're burning
them and it never never happened, never happened. Equal rights
never rose like a phoenix from the ashes of burning bras. Uh.
But this is just the first of many splinter groups
that come out of this nineteen sixties nineteen seventies movement. Now,
as we've mentioned, Molly Uh National Organization for Roman was
(07:22):
focused a lot on these older, college educated, predominantly white
women and black feminists. At the time, some of them
felt marginalized by this movement because they felt like the
the issues that white feminists were focusing on didn't take
into account working class and minority women. And you have
(07:42):
to remember that at the same time, you've got the
civil rights movement and the Black power movement going on
as well, and I think a lot of black women
at the time I felt very conflicted about where they
should place their allegiance because it's either you know, you
have more male lead Black power movement, then you've got
white female lead women's lib movement. What do you do?
(08:03):
And so out of that comes black feminism, right. And
I think an interesting thing that came to around the
same time was this idea of womanism. I think we
mentioned this in the last podcast as a term coined
by Alice Walker, who wrote The Color Purple, and it
was to sort of um bridge the gap between white
feminism and black feminism, where we could all just be
(08:24):
women in this society, look at the problem holistically instead
of just looking at things that are unique to separate parts,
not seeing the forest for the trees, right. And I think,
as we also mentioned the last podcast, black and white
feminists did work together on a on a lot of
different feminist issues, but it was through Black feminism that
you have the rise of organizations such as the National
(08:47):
Black Feminist Organization and the National Alliance of Black Feminists
that really focused on what feminism means for Black women
and the issues surrounding them. So, as we just mentioned
one of the things that got thrown into those big buckets,
they want to go on fire in Atlantic City where
Playboy magazines, and that kind of leads us into the next,
uh sort of movement in feminism. Right, Molly is referring
(09:10):
to the feminist sex wars, and one of the platforms
of second wave feminism was combating sexual violence and anti
porn feminism that arose in the late nineteen seventies perceived
pornography as a form of sexual violence against women. One
of the quotes from anti porn feminist Robin Morgan was,
(09:33):
pornography is the theory, rape is the practice. And so
anti porn feminists wanted to outlaw all pornography because they
felt like it was a violation on women's bodies. Yeah,
and they really just saw all sex, all head her
sexual intercourse as a former male domination. Uh, it must
be totally altered in a way that it's not harmful
to women. And you know, that's one thing, but that
(09:56):
sort of uh didn't sit well with everyone, especially women
who thought that what feminism should stand for be equal
rights in an act such as sex. It wasn't about
um outlawing sex just because you know, the man might enjoy.
It was about making sexual freedom and sexual pleasure available
to also. In responds to the anti porn feminist, you've
(10:17):
got the sex positive feminist or pro sex feminism that
kind of comes out of this movement in the nineteen
late nineteen seventies to dominate the early nineteen eighties, and
among these feminists you have people such as Betty Dodson
and Gil Reuben who really wanted to reclaim sexual intercourse
as something that a woman could enjoy. And today sex
(10:39):
positive feminism has evolved outside of the bedroom um to
include also the sex industry, including porn and prostitution. Right,
sex positive feminists would just say that prostitutes are earning
a living, that it's there's nothing wrong with that. They're
not being degraded. It was their choice. That would be
sort of how a pro sex feminist would view that choice.
And they can take it as a form of personal
(11:01):
empowerment because they are financially supporting themselves exactly. Now, the
last sort of evolution of feminism are going to talk
about only brings us up to the early nineties, but
it's probably one of the um, you know, most famous
movements come out recently, and that's the Riot Girls. This
was happening in specifically in Olympia Washington and Washington Washington,
d C. And grew out from that. And in the
(11:24):
early nineties, you have the daughters of second wave feminists
who might be feeling a little loss their their mother's
brand of feminism might not be seeming quite as relevant
to them because now, you the pill has been around
for a while, Roe V. Wade has been around for
a while. Um, but you still have a lot of
(11:44):
issues such as rape and sexual violence that are still
affecting women's lives. So what do you do with it?
So what these women do, these daughters of the second
way feminists, They find a way to blend together music, art,
and consciousness, raising into sort of a unique brand of feminism.
They take to these male dominated music scenes where all
these you know, bands are fronted by male front guys
(12:05):
and start forming their own bands and publicizing themselves and
their ideas with these homemade magazines called zines and in
essence all their communicators to sort of do it yourself
punk rock values that encompass what they consider the new
feminist ideas. Right, Riot Girls was very grassroots. Um. Two
of the bands that really helped promote the Riot Girl
(12:27):
movement were Bikini Kill and Bratt Mobile. And it was
actually Alison Wolfe and Molly Numa, who were the front
leaders of Bratt Mobile, who started the zine called Riot
Girl that the movement borrowed from. And it's very gritty,
you know, it's it's do it yourself, but that what
they were doing was facilitating these weekly meetings to discuss
(12:50):
what they thought were the issues such as rape, racism,
and body image. Um. They wanted to talk about sexuality
very frankly and you know, reclaim these negative stereotype about
who owns a woman's body. And an interesting thing about
Riot Girls is that they never wanted it to become
a mainstream movement like Women's Libo. When national news outlets
(13:12):
picked up on the trend and started writing huge cover
stories on it, the Riot Girls declared a media blackout
because they didn't want to dilute the effect of this
this pretty powerful grassroots movement. Right. So yeah, that brings
us up to today, right, So where are we today? Um?
Before we came, Kristen was showing me with her savvy
(13:33):
web skills all the places that feminism can be found online,
which is really kind of where you know, like most things,
the movement has moved. I would say that the blog
community is really one of the primary places for feminist
communities right now. You've got blogs such as feminist ng
and broadsheet on salon Um that are really powerful forums
for for feminists today to talk about pertinent issues. I
(13:57):
think one of the problems with the web is because
you know, everyone has access to it and everyone can
sort of put their own brand of feminism up. That's
sort of what leads to confusion about what the term means,
which is what we were discussing last time. So that
can need to be a good thing or a bad thing,
depending on how you look at it. You know, if
you've got a keyboard and an Internet connection, you can
put your own brand of what feminism means to you
(14:17):
on the web. And on the flip side of that,
one of the debates that's been raging i'd say in
the past few years is whether or not uh, feminism
really exists anymore, and whether or not it's even a
useful term. So yeah, because as you can just tell
from today, we had about five moments, none of which
really subscribed to the same theories or ideas. Right. But
(14:38):
I will tell you, Molly, I was on I was
scrolling through feminist NG today before we started recording, and
I just noticed that the resounding theme I think of
all the conversations with feminists today, and I think that
it will always be this way is the idea of choice. Um,
even though women might take different perspectives on it and
want to tackle choice from different angles, at end of
(15:00):
the day, I think that's what feminism is really all about.
Whether that's choice dealing with the pill, or abortion, or
sexual violence or workplace equality, all of that has to
do with the single issue of choice. Okay, that's a
good note to end on. So if you want to
learn more about feminism, you can exercise your choice to
go read How Feminism Works and also Top five Feminist Movements,
(15:23):
both articles written by a very on Kristen Uh. They're
all at how stuff works dot com And if you
have a question or comment for Kristen and me, just
email us at mom stuff at how stuff works dot
com for moralness and thousands of other topics. Because it
how stuff works dot com brought to you by the
(15:47):
reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. It's ready, Are you
Brought to you by the Reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to step Mom? Never Told You?
From how Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, welcome to the podcast.
This is Molly. I'm Kristen and if all goes according
(00:21):
to plan. Our last podcast dealt with feminism and how
feminism is kind of a confusing topic these days. No
one really knows what a feminist looks like, what feminists
stand for, and today we're going to kind of go
into the history of feminism to kind of explain how
things got so confusing. And the last podcast, right, we
focus a lot on what it is today. So we're
(00:41):
going to go back to one of the first movements
that probably comes to mind when you think about feminism,
and that is the suffrage movement um when women American
women campaigned to get the vote. And the suffrage movement
was born out of antislavery and temporary movements of the
time because women were barred from participating in a lot
(01:05):
of the social organizations that were pushing for the abolition
of slavery and temperance. In in eighteen forty, Elizabeth Katie
Stanton and Lucretia Mott tried to go to the World
Antislavery Convention in London, but the men who were running
the event so that they couldn't participate because they were women,
(01:27):
and that that got them angry. It got them angry,
and you know, this was one of the first time
women kind of got angry about that. At the time,
women had very little control of our lives. They're having
seven children, they weren't going to college or university, and
so the abolition movement really had provided the first chance
to kind of get out of the home. And when
they were rejected from that as well, they had to
(01:48):
do something about it. So Elizabeth Katie stand and Lucresia
Mott organized the Seneca Falls Convention, right, and at the
Seneca Falls Convention, uh, they penned the Declaration of Sentiments,
and this is the first document outlining the need for
equality among women and women in the United States, including
(02:12):
voting rights. And from there the suffrage movement really starts
to take shape. But we should know that these are
jazz movements. They are taking place in the United States.
You know, these were sort of the first actions in
the United States that could be considered feminism, but the
idea of feminism is actually borrowed from Europe and France.
The idea of male and female equality really took shape
during the French Revolution, and from there we borrow the
(02:36):
term feminism, which came to the United Station was in
use by around nineteen ten, but not all suffragets would
actually label themselves feminism because at the time there are
two distinct things. Suffragettes or fighting specifically for the right
to vote, no more, no less, whereas feminism included equal
(02:59):
right across the board, financial independence, and transforming the relationship
between the sexes. It was a far more revolutionary idea.
So that's the idea that kind of from what I understand,
Kristen goes dormant after women get the right to vote,
and kind of stays dormant until the nineteen sixties, right,
because you have uh splintering among groups of suffragettes who
(03:21):
aren't comfortable with fighting for more feminist agendas, if you will.
And it wasn't really until after World War Two with
the Women's Liberation movement that you have the next large
scale organized feminist movement. Not to say that during the
World Wars women weren't doing a lot of things. You know,
we have women since the g i s were off fighting,
(03:43):
a lot of women were leaving the home and working
in larger numbers than ever before. Educational opportunities were opening
up for women. Um. And that all lead up to
the nineteen sixties and the women's lib movement. Rosie the Riveter,
Yes brings us to the nineteen sixties and our next movement,
women's liberation movement. And the issues at this time are
(04:03):
basically domesticity, employment, education, and sexuality right right. Because after
World War Two, all the men came home from war
and it was a revival of the cult of domesticity.
You have the rise of household consumerism and all these
highly educated women who were feeling trapped at home. So
(04:27):
what we have out of that feeling of being trapped?
There was a very prominent book we discussed in the
Labs podcast, the Feminine Mystique, and the author Betty for
Dan and other prominent feminists comes together to form the
National Organization for Women Are Now And this is probably
one of the most famous feminist organizations. And this was
this was comprised largely of older, college educated, predominantly white women.
(04:51):
There were some some men involved in it as well, UM,
but it really it seemed like in the beginning it
really catered to middle and upperclass women, right, and they
were pushing for access to the birth control pill, abortion rights,
equal employment opportunity, reduction of domestic violence. And they start
out holding feminist conferences. It's sort of, I guess, probably
(05:13):
what we all think of as the glory days of feminism.
And while all of us is going on, younger people
are also getting energized because of the civil rights movement
and more radical protests against the Vietnam War. And it's
among this younger set of feminists that you have uh
more radical splinter groups there aren't necessarily associated with the
(05:35):
National Organization for Women, who are protesting more more in
your face about women's rights and uh sexual freedom and
all of that. And one of the most prominent events
associated with that is the protests by the New York
Radical Women against the nineteen sixty eight Miss American paget
(05:56):
And this is really where the idea of feminists being
bra burners comes to life. Yeah, so this is a
really interesting story. It's Miss America pageant and along the
Atlantic City Boardwalk, the New York Radical Women's Organization, you know,
throws this big protest where you throw everything that represents
(06:17):
submissive females into a bucket. So we got bras that,
I think, kitchen utensil, layboy, all sorts of things that
just you know, spell out the fact that women have
been enslaved by men, to use a radical word, right,
And they were they were planning to light this on
fire as as a symbol of them getting rid of
(06:38):
all these um all these things that we're holding them back.
But the Atlantic City police weren't too keen on a
giant fire on the boardwalk, so they never ended up
doing it, and not a single bra was burned that day.
But somehow the media got a word of what was
going on, and the next day it was a feminists
(07:00):
or bra burners are taking off their braws, they're burning
them and it never never happened, never happened. Equal rights
never rose like a phoenix from the ashes of burning bras. Uh.
But this is just the first of many splinter groups
that come out of this nineteen sixties nineteen seventies movement. Now,
as we've mentioned, Molly Uh National Organization for Roman was
(07:22):
focused a lot on these older, college educated, predominantly white
women and black feminists. At the time, some of them
felt marginalized by this movement because they felt like the
the issues that white feminists were focusing on didn't take
into account working class and minority women. And you have
(07:42):
to remember that at the same time, you've got the
civil rights movement and the Black power movement going on
as well, and I think a lot of black women
at the time I felt very conflicted about where they
should place their allegiance because it's either you know, you
have more male lead Black power movement, then you've got
white female lead women's lib movement. What do you do?
(08:03):
And so out of that comes black feminism, right. And
I think an interesting thing that came to around the
same time was this idea of womanism. I think we
mentioned this in the last podcast as a term coined
by Alice Walker, who wrote The Color Purple, and it
was to sort of um bridge the gap between white
feminism and black feminism, where we could all just be
(08:24):
women in this society, look at the problem holistically instead
of just looking at things that are unique to separate parts,
not seeing the forest for the trees, right. And I think,
as we also mentioned the last podcast, black and white
feminists did work together on a on a lot of
different feminist issues, but it was through Black feminism that
you have the rise of organizations such as the National
(08:47):
Black Feminist Organization and the National Alliance of Black Feminists
that really focused on what feminism means for Black women
and the issues surrounding them. So, as we just mentioned
one of the things that got thrown into those big buckets,
they want to go on fire in Atlantic City where
Playboy magazines, and that kind of leads us into the next,
uh sort of movement in feminism. Right, Molly is referring
(09:10):
to the feminist sex wars, and one of the platforms
of second wave feminism was combating sexual violence and anti
porn feminism that arose in the late nineteen seventies perceived
pornography as a form of sexual violence against women. One
of the quotes from anti porn feminist Robin Morgan was,
(09:33):
pornography is the theory, rape is the practice. And so
anti porn feminists wanted to outlaw all pornography because they
felt like it was a violation on women's bodies. Yeah,
and they really just saw all sex, all head her
sexual intercourse as a former male domination. Uh, it must
be totally altered in a way that it's not harmful
to women. And you know, that's one thing, but that
(09:56):
sort of uh didn't sit well with everyone, especially women
who thought that what feminism should stand for be equal
rights in an act such as sex. It wasn't about
um outlawing sex just because you know, the man might enjoy.
It was about making sexual freedom and sexual pleasure available
to also. In responds to the anti porn feminist, you've
(10:17):
got the sex positive feminist or pro sex feminism that
kind of comes out of this movement in the nineteen
late nineteen seventies to dominate the early nineteen eighties, and
among these feminists you have people such as Betty Dodson
and Gil Reuben who really wanted to reclaim sexual intercourse
as something that a woman could enjoy. And today sex
(10:39):
positive feminism has evolved outside of the bedroom um to
include also the sex industry, including porn and prostitution. Right,
sex positive feminists would just say that prostitutes are earning
a living, that it's there's nothing wrong with that. They're
not being degraded. It was their choice. That would be
sort of how a pro sex feminist would view that choice.
And they can take it as a form of personal
(11:01):
empowerment because they are financially supporting themselves exactly. Now, the
last sort of evolution of feminism are going to talk
about only brings us up to the early nineties, but
it's probably one of the um, you know, most famous
movements come out recently, and that's the Riot Girls. This
was happening in specifically in Olympia Washington and Washington Washington,
d C. And grew out from that. And in the
(11:24):
early nineties, you have the daughters of second wave feminists
who might be feeling a little loss their their mother's
brand of feminism might not be seeming quite as relevant
to them because now, you the pill has been around
for a while, Roe V. Wade has been around for
a while. Um, but you still have a lot of
(11:44):
issues such as rape and sexual violence that are still
affecting women's lives. So what do you do with it?
So what these women do, these daughters of the second
way feminists, They find a way to blend together music, art,
and consciousness, raising into sort of a unique brand of feminism.
They take to these male dominated music scenes where all
these you know, bands are fronted by male front guys
(12:05):
and start forming their own bands and publicizing themselves and
their ideas with these homemade magazines called zines and in
essence all their communicators to sort of do it yourself
punk rock values that encompass what they consider the new
feminist ideas. Right, Riot Girls was very grassroots. Um. Two
of the bands that really helped promote the Riot Girl
(12:27):
movement were Bikini Kill and Bratt Mobile. And it was
actually Alison Wolfe and Molly Numa, who were the front
leaders of Bratt Mobile, who started the zine called Riot
Girl that the movement borrowed from. And it's very gritty,
you know, it's it's do it yourself, but that what
they were doing was facilitating these weekly meetings to discuss
(12:50):
what they thought were the issues such as rape, racism,
and body image. Um. They wanted to talk about sexuality
very frankly and you know, reclaim these negative stereotype about
who owns a woman's body. And an interesting thing about
Riot Girls is that they never wanted it to become
a mainstream movement like Women's Libo. When national news outlets
(13:12):
picked up on the trend and started writing huge cover
stories on it, the Riot Girls declared a media blackout
because they didn't want to dilute the effect of this
this pretty powerful grassroots movement. Right. So yeah, that brings
us up to today, right, So where are we today? Um?
Before we came, Kristen was showing me with her savvy
(13:33):
web skills all the places that feminism can be found online,
which is really kind of where you know, like most things,
the movement has moved. I would say that the blog
community is really one of the primary places for feminist
communities right now. You've got blogs such as feminist ng
and broadsheet on salon Um that are really powerful forums
for for feminists today to talk about pertinent issues. I
(13:57):
think one of the problems with the web is because
you know, everyone has access to it and everyone can
sort of put their own brand of feminism up. That's
sort of what leads to confusion about what the term means,
which is what we were discussing last time. So that
can need to be a good thing or a bad thing,
depending on how you look at it. You know, if
you've got a keyboard and an Internet connection, you can
put your own brand of what feminism means to you
(14:17):
on the web. And on the flip side of that,
one of the debates that's been raging i'd say in
the past few years is whether or not uh, feminism
really exists anymore, and whether or not it's even a
useful term. So yeah, because as you can just tell
from today, we had about five moments, none of which
really subscribed to the same theories or ideas. Right. But
(14:38):
I will tell you, Molly, I was on I was
scrolling through feminist NG today before we started recording, and
I just noticed that the resounding theme I think of
all the conversations with feminists today, and I think that
it will always be this way is the idea of choice. Um,
even though women might take different perspectives on it and
want to tackle choice from different angles, at end of
(15:00):
the day, I think that's what feminism is really all about.
Whether that's choice dealing with the pill, or abortion, or
sexual violence or workplace equality, all of that has to
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(15:23):
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